Author Topic: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...  (Read 143450 times)

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Offline dr.diesel

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2014, 05:24:16 pm »

Saving large uncompressed BMPs on your 4000 will be faster than PNGs, even though they're bigger.  That's because the processor in the 4000 (or the code) isn't very fast at compressing BMPs down to PNGs.  Probably not surprising.

[ADDED:  So the best approach is probably to save BMPs to the USB stick (fastest), then convert them to PNGs on your PC (smallest).]

If you haven't seen it, there is an excellent screen capture utility here:

http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/

Works on Linux/Mac/Windblows, no other drivers or software required.  Also works for the DSA815, probably other Rigol as well.

Offline Altemir

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2014, 06:07:46 pm »
1. Very slowly work with USB-disks. Writing to 2GB disk *.png 45KB ~18...30sec!

Yes, incredibly slow. I did find though that BMP was much faster, and also the first image saved after putting the USB drive in the scope took longer than the rest.
I tested this bug today once again and what I has find: if USB-disk was formatted to FAT16 and it was without any files/dirs, MSO issue this results:
  • *.bmp   ~3.5sec
  • *.png    ~7...10sec
  • *.jpg     ~3...3.5sec
  • *.tiff      ~2...3sec
My USB-disk has ~30 files in main dir, ~10 dirs with ~20-30 files in each at the begining before formatting. MSO was very slow under such conditions, then it can't save any files on this drive. I have an acceptable results now, but *.png is a very bad choice for speed.

Quote
9. Channels measurements is by FIFO-principle: when you adding new measurement, old left are deleting
Is this a bug?
Yes, it is so. More datailed reasons I expressed at my RU bug-report. This is just awful for my laboratory's measurements and unlike the other my Tek and Lecroy scopes.

Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2014, 06:15:21 pm »
Quote
9. Channels measurements is by FIFO-principle: when you adding new measurement, old left are deleting
Is this a bug?
Yes, it is so. More datailed reasons I expressed at my RU bug-report. This is just awful for my laboratory's measurements and unlike the other my Tek and Lecroy scopes.

No it isn't: it's an interface-design issue. You might not like it - but it's working as designed - and so it's *not* a bug.
 

Offline Altemir

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2014, 06:29:39 pm »
No it isn't: it's an interface-design issue. You might not like it - but it's working as designed - and so it's *not* a bug.
Everything is relative :) I will correct it in bug-list.

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2014, 06:32:48 pm »
Quote
21. Multi-function Knob change value, when you are press on it (this is bug on all Rigol oscilloscopes)
And that's the most annoying problem...

I think most of this problem is the slow/laggy response of the encoder/display.  The system is still registering that you moved the multifunction knob while you press it in, the system finally updates the screen to one more position (past the option you were attempting to chose, but because it is no laggy you thought it was finished moving/updating) and it is chosen instead.

Yes very annoying, especially for a $4k instrument.  If you slowly move the knob and wait for it to update it works fine, better not be in any hurry though...

Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2014, 06:54:00 pm »
I think most of this problem is the slow/laggy response of the encoder/display.  The system is still registering that you moved the multifunction knob while you press it in, the system finally updates the screen to one more position (past the option you were attempting to chose, but because it is no laggy you thought it was finished moving/updating) and it is chosen instead.

Yes, but it's only a problem in Menu overlays; when there are screen overlays (such as the virtual keyboard), there is no lag and you can enter presses at breakneck speeds. The problem is the amount of processing time reassigned to deal with the Menu - you can again see it clearly when MenuDisplay is not infinite: the animation of the retraction of the Menu stutters terribly.

Rigol needs to change the amount of processing time devoted to the Menu (when there is a sub-menu extended) to the same thing it is when there is a screen overlay.
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2014, 06:58:10 pm »
Rigol needs to change the amount of processing time devoted to the Menu (when there is a sub-menu extended) to the same thing it is when there is a screen overlay.

This would be an easy change to make.  I'm guessing this is present in the DS4000s as well, which means they are not going to fix it if it's been there this long.

Offline Altemir

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2014, 10:56:54 pm »
Big tests and experiments has been done today. Thanks to MrKrabs for his patch! I placed links to my results in first posts.
Frequency response tests
Pulse tests

Some notes.
This is unbelievable! Real 500MHz! Beautiful flat frequency response, good Pulse response (you can make pulse test independently with MSO4024 calibration output: fast edge signal with 500ps rise time). Big thanks to Rigol's engineers! As you can see, for MSO4024 BW(-3dB) is ~350MHz, Rise time ~1.4ns, and for MSO4024_500 it is ~670MHz and ~780ps respectively. So, for this scopes F(-3dB) = ~0.49/t_rise. Is Rigol used in this input paths filter with maximally flat response (high order Butterworth filter)? Rigol writes in DS4k User's guide, that Calculated Rise Time for MSO405X/DS405X is 700 ps. I can see changing between 760...840ps. Is MSO405X/DS405X has different input path yet?

The following quote a little picture of the upper links:

Offline Binary1955

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2014, 11:37:05 pm »

If you haven't seen it, there is an excellent screen capture utility here:

http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/

Works on Linux/Mac/Windblows, no other drivers or software required.  Also works for the DSA815, probably other Rigol as well.

@ dr.diesel

Do you use this program rigol-screen copy-lan in the German version or do you have it in English?
 

Offline Altemir

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2014, 11:40:09 pm »
I have not used yet

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2014, 11:43:38 pm »
@ dr.diesel
Do you use this program rigol-screen copy-lan in the German version or do you have it in English?

It is English, or perhaps auto-detects.

Offline rsivan

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2014, 11:52:04 pm »
Hello to all,I'm investigating about fan noise of my ds4014 and discovered inside chips are very hot!, expecially 4 ic without heatsink which reach 80c, after some check I ordered from rs 9 heatsink 4x 17x17 and 5x 10x10 self adhesive, and result was good now if you see  second ir pic with only one heatsink fitted see difference... ,about fan I replaced with noctua make running at about 1000rpm, fitted reverse pushing air inside and 10-15° inclined to center, this decrease a lot the noise and cooling seem to be good, now temp is max 27 from system stat, before was 34-36 max at about 17c room
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 12:11:14 am by rsivan »
 

Offline AndersAnd

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2014, 07:15:06 am »
Is it the A/D-converters?
 

Offline rsivan

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2014, 07:17:48 am »
I think are adc converters
 

Offline AndersAnd

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2014, 07:20:48 am »
So all the black heatsinks were added by you and all the silver heatsinks were factory mounted?

 

Offline rsivan

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2014, 07:22:22 am »
yes all black what I mounted
 

Offline AndersAnd

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2014, 07:25:09 am »
I think are adc converters
Or maybe it's the 4 PGAs (programmable gain amplifiers)? Or are these mounted below the analog front-end shield?
 

Offline Altemir

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2014, 02:26:48 pm »
I think, that it is adc. Pga and equaliser is under shield.
Can anyone make a pulse test with patched DS/MSO401x? Screenshots will be nice, as I has done upper.

Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2014, 02:45:02 pm »
I think, that it is adc. Pga and equaliser is under shield.

Definitely the ADCs. Possibly Ruifeng MXT2001s.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 09:00:23 pm by marmad »
 

Offline discopope

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2014, 04:00:35 pm »
Can anyone make a pulse test with patched DS/MSO401x? Screenshots will be nice, as I has done upper.

Here are some from a MSO4014 and a Tek DPO 4032 for comparison. Signal source was the calibration output from the MSO.

The last one, with 'FWPatch' in the file name is the one with the new firmware.
 

Offline commongrounder

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2014, 04:46:33 pm »
@rsivan

Thanks for sharing your DS4000 heat sink modification.  I am interested in this, along with the fan change, in an effort to reduce the noise of my DS4000 series scope.  I wonder if the addition of the heat sinks might affect the electrical operation of the chips in any way.  Rigol may have left them off for reasons other than just cutting manufacturing costs.  An interaction like this might only be apparent at higher frequencies and would have to be tested, I suppose.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2014, 06:24:49 pm »
I wonder if it is normal for the DS4000 ICs to be so hot. Maybe yes. Even the ICs in Dave's TDS3000 were pretty hot.
http://youtu.be/qXGqDDE9-4M?t=12m24s
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline rsivan

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2014, 07:06:27 pm »
A chip working at 80c is not going to work lifetime at 40-50 will be better anyway I can bring a ground on heatsink to make good shield one important thing putting fan reverse pushing air inside cool chip a lot more because pulling air will make air drain from edge of case and zone close to last bga and temp sensor much hot,
 now temp max after 2-3h is 26-27
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 07:08:20 pm by rsivan »
 

Offline cubitus

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2014, 08:52:54 pm »
Hello,

I just bought the MSO4014. (10/01/2014)
I disassemble, and I'm guessing that he is not new!  :wtf:
There are traces of dust on the fan and the circuit.
Can be found on the PCB manufacturing date?
thank you
RIGOL DM3068, DG4062, DP832A MSO4014
FLIR E4
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2014, 09:12:46 pm »
Hello,

I just bought the MSO4014. (10/01/2014)
I disassemble, and I'm guessing that he is not new!  :wtf:
There are traces of dust on the fan and the circuit.
Can be found on the PCB manufacturing date?
thank you

The year and week of manufacture is incorporated in the serial number. 

For example, on a DS2000 series scope the serial is something like: DS2A1427xxxxx  In this case, the 14 indicates year 2012, and the 27 is the week of the year of manufacture.

For the years: 14 = 2012, 15 = 2013, 16 = 2014, etc.

So, you can determine the manufacture date using your serial number.
 


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