Rigol MSO5074 vs DHO914s

[franciscoPT]

Hi, i want to buy a new scope, the one i have right now is a 2ch Hantek, i was looking the models MSO5074 and the new DHO914s, both from rigol, and for me it seems that the only advantages in the DHO914s are the 12bit resolution and the price of course, i need some advices to make my choice, is the 12bit so much better that is worth to give up in other features?

[Fungus]

That depends on what you're going to use it for.

[Martin72]

is the 12bit so much better that is worth to give up in other features?

This question in itself is worth becoming a topic of its own.
Currently there is a lot of hype about the 12 bit, especially with cheap scopes.
Fungus has already said it, it depends on what you want to measure, where your focus is.
To your actual question...
I had the MSO5074 over a year in use, also I had a DHO4204 to test here.
I assume that the software is the same for all Rigol 12 bit scopes, at least it would be strange if not.
Therefore, I dare to say that if you do not need 12 bit (native, because the MSO5074 has 12 bit as Hi-Res mode) and if you do not mind a somewhat dusty UI, the MSO5074 offers div. advantages.
Larger screen, larger bandwidth, more memory, max. 8GSa/s, 2-channel AWG, better FFT, etc., etc....
The biggest disadvantage is the front end noise of the MSO5074, but that only plays a role if you want to evaluate very small signals.
However, I don't think the scope will be really taken care of now that the new 12 bit models are out..

[moffy]

Two advantages for the DHO914 that I like are:
1. Built in battery support with USB-C power port, making it very portable.
2. If you want to do PC logging and maybe FFTs on the PC the 12 bit is going to help.

[mwb1100]

However, I don't think the scope [MSO5000?] will be really taken care of now that the new 12 bit models are out..

You mean they won't be updating firmware or something else?  Is there still much that needs fixed in the MSO5000 firmware?

[franciscoPT]

Thats 1 of my concerns, the mso5074 seems that still need to be polish, hope rigol still keep updating it.

[NE666]

Thats 1 of my concerns

Any/either model is a concern, when it comes to Rigol and their software "management" process.  You, like myself and others, have to / have had to make the decision whether or not to temper that risk against possible rewards, including the price point.

Only time will tell and certainly, the new software architecture demonstrated in the DHO series will likely become adopted across all future models (12-bit and otherwise) as the potential for code reuse greatly enhances the economics of future development and of lifecycle maintenance.

However, it's by no means certain this means no further firmware releases for the MSO5k series.  The latest FW for both the 5k and the DHO1k/4k both date from May this year, so it wasn't "dropped" when the DHO line was first introduced.

And, the DHO800/900 whilst interesting, aren't "God scopes" and don't overlap the MSO5k's capabilities.  So I think ultimately, it will all depend on sales revenue.  Whilst the 5k continues to sell (and by all accounts on other threads, it was doing quite well in the best sellers lists of the likes of Batronix), it will likely continue to receive some development cycles.

[RAPo]

I'll think that the hobbyists will buy both an MSO5000 for the benchwork an d a relatively tested functionality and a DHO8/900 for its newness,12-bit and portability. Both scopes use the same LA-probe so that investment is shared.

[franciscoPT]

I think i will wait for more reviews on the DHO series.

[NE666]

I think i will wait for more reviews on the DHO series.

Very prudent, I think.  So far we've seen (far too?) much about fan noise and boot time and very little by way of objective review of performance against claimed specification, usability and "completeness".  I'll be holding off until at least I've some confidence that it actually works well as an oscilloscope of its specifications, rather than a cute, portable Android-based, Doom platform / hacker fest, which can also be used to display some waveforms if you're into that sort of thing..

[NE666]

I'll think that the hobbyists will buy both an MSO5000 for the benchwork an d a relatively tested functionality and a DHO8/900 for its newness,12-bit and portability. Both scopes use the same LA-probe so that investment is shared.

Speaking as someone who has already invested in both the MSO5k and the Rigol cable for it, I doubt that I will pay a 200 USD premium (between the DHO804 and the DHO914) just so as to duplicate the exact same functionality I already have.

If you're doing enough microcontroller work to have already gone for the MSO, then that money is better spent being put towards a decent "proper" LA / protocol analyser.  IMHO.  Maybe the extra memory depth or bandwidth together might justify it but it's already starting to appear as if the 800 is hackable in those regards.

YMMV

[Fungus]

Very prudent, I think.  So far we've seen (far too?) much about fan noise and boot time and very little by way of objective review of performance against claimed specification, usability and "completeness".

Because not many people have them in their hands yet.

Mine is ordered. Delivery is promised in October.

[mwb1100]

Thats 1 of my concerns, the mso5074 seems that still need to be polish, hope rigol still keep updating it.

The MSO5000 has been out for about 5 years I think.  I also believe most if not all the important bugs have been ironed out.  While they have released a couple firmware updates earlier this year (including VNC support!), I think that anyone planing a new purchase shouldn't count on MSO5000 firmware updates except to handle any hardware changes (such as the new nand chip they're using in manufacturing now) or maybe to fix bugs - and I wouldn't count on much in the way of bug fixes either.

I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, I just think it's something that shouldn't be expected.  I'm pretty sure the MSO5000 is about as polished as it's going to get.

Personally, if I were looking for a new scope right now, I'd almost certainly go for the DHO914 or DHO914S over the MSO5074 unless I wanted the larger screen, 250MHz/lower sample rate/lower memory depth wouldn't cut it, or I really needed the second AWG.  Is there anything else the MSO5000 has over the DHO914 spec wise?

(Note: I'd also look at Siglent's offerings in the same price range and maybe hold out to see where the SDS1000X HD lands pricewise in USD)

I'd also try to hold out for Black Friday/end of year promo season.  I have a feeling there are going to be some good deals again like last year.

[NE666]

Is there anything else the MSO5000 has over the DHO914 spec wise?

A non-issue for some and quick becoming a thing of the past across the board but I do still like the separate, physical vertical controls for each channel.

Similarly, the MSO5k has external trigger-in capability, which will be essential for some and of no consequence to others.

[simone.pignatti]

This is actually a very good comparison, today we had an internal meeting and that was a hot point.
From today, we have the DHO900S for the next two week at our office to make tests.
Any question please ask.

[tv84]

This is actually a very good comparison, today we had an internal meeting and that was a hot point.

You're very welcome to come here and share your conclusions.

[UK]

I'm wondering does DHO900 really has a higher sensitivity.

From MSO5000 datasheet:
Vertical Sensitivity Range[3] 500 μV/div~10 V/div
[3]: 1 mV/div and 2 mV/div is a magnification of 4 mV/div setting.

From DHO900 datasheet:
Vertical Sensitivity Range[4] 200 μV/div to 10 V/div
[4]: 200 μV/div and 500 μV/div is a magnification of 1 mV/div setting.

[Fungus]

I'm wondering does DHO900 really has a higher sensitivity.

From MSO5000 datasheet:
Vertical Sensitivity Range[3] 500 μV/div~10 V/div
[3]: 1 mV/div and 2 mV/div is a magnification of 4 mV/div setting.

From DHO900 datasheet:
Vertical Sensitivity Range[4] 200 μV/div to 10 V/div
[4]: 200 μV/div and 500 μV/div is a magnification of 1 mV/div setting.

Yes. One is 4mV/div and one is 1mV/div. 

(And one of those two is using a 12-bit ADC to measure the signal, the other one isn't)

[UK]

I'm wondering does DHO900 really has a higher sensitivity.

From MSO5000 datasheet:
Vertical Sensitivity Range[3] 500 μV/div~10 V/div
[3]: 1 mV/div and 2 mV/div is a magnification of 4 mV/div setting.

From DHO900 datasheet:
Vertical Sensitivity Range[4] 200 μV/div to 10 V/div
[4]: 200 μV/div and 500 μV/div is a magnification of 1 mV/div setting.

Yes. One is 4mV/div and one is 1mV/div. 

(And one of those two is using a 12-bit ADC to measure the signal, the other one isn't)

I saw in comments higher that MSO5000 can show 12-bit in High Res mode, I know that's just an oversample, but I can't find the same High Res option for the DHO series... does it even exist?

[Fungus]

I saw in comments higher that MSO5000 can show 12-bit in High Res mode

There's also a thread somewhere that tested that claim and found it to be more like 9 bits in reality.

I can't find the same High Res option for the DHO series... does it even exist?

The DHO is real 12-bit, so... who needs a hires mode?

[NE666]

I can't find the same High Res option for the DHO series... does it even exist?

Yes, for the 1000/4000 series (14- and 16-bit).  No, for the 800/900.

So either a hardware design decision (insufficient sample rate / memory depth / processing), or a commercial one.

[Martin72]

The DHO1000 has also only one ADC for all channels.
The CPU also seems to be the same, maybe it is the FPGA that is a different model(and makes the difference).
(Samplerate DHO 1000: 2G/1G/500M, Samplerate DHO800/900: 1.25G/625M/312.5M )

[Fungus]

The CPU also seems to be the same, maybe it is the FPGA that is a different model(and makes the difference).

Yep, it's the FPGA that's different.

PCB comparison:

[BRZ.tech]

This is actually a very good comparison, today we had an internal meeting and that was a hot point.
From today, we have the DHO900S for the next two week at our office to make tests.
Any question please ask.

Hi.
I have an MSO5074.
@simone.pignati offered the possibility of carrying out comparative tests between the MSO5074 and the HDO914S.
Originally the DHO914S has BW=125MHz and has an AFG (Arbitrary Function Generator).
The MSO5074 originally has BW=70MHz and has 2 Signal Generators, SG1 and SG2.
The BW of the two models are different. And the comparison may not be correct in many tests, near and above BW.
The DHO914S has 12bits of Vertical Resolution = 2^12 = 4096 steps.
And Horizontal Sampling Rate of 1.25MSa/s (for 1 channel connected).
The MSO5074 has 8bits of Vertical Resolution = 2^8 = 256 steps.
And Horizontal Sampling Rate of 8MSa/s (for 1 channel connected).

The DHO914S wins in the Vertical Resolution comparison: 4096/256 = 16x.
The MSO5074 wins in the Horizontal Sampling Rate comparison: 8/1.25 = 6.4x.

As a first idea, I suggest (Preheating = 30 minutes):
1. Simultaneously insert into both Oscilloscopes a Sinusoidal signal, without modulation, of 100mVpp, f=10MHz, with Z=50 Ohm, with a 50 Ohm coaxial cable, RG-58 or RG-316, or other. You can use SG1 of MSO5074.

2. Place a “T-BNC” on CH-1 of the MSO5074, continue with another 50 Ohm cable to CH-1 of the DHO914S, place a “T-BNC” and a terminating resistor of R=50 Ohm.

3. On the MSO5000 and DHO914S, activate Measurements:
Horizontal: Freq
Vertical: Vpp, Vrms
Statistic -> Count = 100

4. After 100 counts -> (STOP/RUN) -> Save the IMG on PENDRIVE, on each Oscilloscope.
Compare the Avg -> VRMS of the two models, and if interesting, the other Measurements in the Statistic mode.

5. Hi Resolution 12 bits on MSO5074:
MSO5074 -> Aquire -> Acquisition -> High Res.
(Repeat item 4) -> (STOP/RUN) -> Save the IMG on the PENDRIVE, on each Oscilloscope.
Compare the Avg -> VRMS of the two models, and if interesting, the other Measurements in the Statistic mode.

6. Simultaneously insert into both Oscilloscopes a Sinusoidal signal, without modulation, of 100mVpp, f=50MHz, with Z=50 Ohm, with a 50 Ohm coaxial cable, RG-58 or RG-316, or other. You have to use an external one: RF Generator or Waveform Generator.

7. (Repeat items -> 3, 4, 5).

8. Compare all the results from (item 4), and give your opinion.

Another suggestion:
If possible, use a DHO924S with BW=250MHz, and an MSO5074 with expanded BW=350MHz.

9. Simultaneously insert into both Oscilloscopes a Sinusoidal signal, without modulation, of 100mVpp, f=200MHz, with Z=50 Ohm, with a 50 Ohm coaxial cable, RG-58 or RG-316, or other. You have to use an external one: RF Generator.
10. (Repeat items -> 3, 4, 5).
11. Compare all the results from (item 4), and give your opinion.
12. Place the IMGs saved on the PENDRIVEs in this topic.
13. Comment on the loss of RF signal in the RF cables and connectors used.

[BRZ.tech]

This is actually a very good comparison, today we had an internal meeting and that was a hot point.
From today, we have the DHO900S for the next two week at our office to make tests.
Any question please ask.

Hi.
@simone.pignati stated the possibility of carrying out comparative tests.
I post message #23, presenting some suggestions.
@simone.pignati, if you don't understand the questions, or don't have all the instruments to carry out the comparative tests, or don't have an agenda, or something else, let us know.
If you have any difficulty performing the tests, let us know your questions so we can help you.
If you decide not to carry out the tests, please also let us know.
To carry out the tests you will need:
1 MSO5000 with BW=350MHz.
1 DHO924S with BW=250MHz.
1 RF Generator programmable in Frequency and Amplitude, and 50 Ohm output.