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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Daruosha on April 17, 2019, 04:07:37 am

Title: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: Daruosha on April 17, 2019, 04:07:37 am
Anyone heard anything about Rigol MSO8000 series? Apparently they are launching a new series of scopes with 4 GHz bandwidth.

Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: Plasmateur on April 17, 2019, 05:25:16 am
If it's $2000, I'll buy it on the pre-sale. Any chance of it having 12bit resolution?  :D
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: jjoonathan on April 17, 2019, 05:40:08 am
The bottom-tier DS7000 is $2700 for 100MHz at 8 bit, so that seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: LapTop006 on April 19, 2019, 09:06:38 am
A topped off MSO7K would be already $11k, then count in the faster AFE/ADC/FPGA and probably doubling or quadrupling the DSP ASICs and the big part, 4*active probes for 2GHz, there's no way this thing as a complete set is going to be anywhere shy of $25k brand new.

My 2.5GHz Keysight (MSOX6k, 6GHz capable) was US$14k fully optioned when I bought it last year.

Of course that's with passive probes, good active probes would be as much again.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: ebastler on April 19, 2019, 09:33:19 am
Anyone heard anything about Rigol MSO8000 series? Apparently they are launching a new series of scopes with 4 GHz bandwidth.

Where did you find the 4 GHz bandwidth? I have always seen them described as "600 MHz to 2 GHz bandwidth, 10 GSa/s" in various brief announcements. E.g. here: https://www.temcom.com/rigol-announces-the-oscilloscopes-of-the-mso8000-series/ (https://www.temcom.com/rigol-announces-the-oscilloscopes-of-the-mso8000-series/)
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: Fungus on April 19, 2019, 12:29:54 pm
If it's $2000, I'll buy it on the pre-sale. Any chance of it having 12bit resolution?  :D

If it's $20000 (with max BW and all options and probes), I'll buy it on pre-sale.

It won't.

A topped off MSO7K would be already $11k, then count in the faster AFE/ADC/FPGA and probably doubling or quadrupling the DSP ASICs and the big part, 4*active probes for 2GHz, there's no way this thing as a complete set is going to be anywhere shy of $25k brand new.

These 'scopes are all hackable so far.

eg. In practice you can get the "$5000" version of the MSO5000 for $1000.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: 0xdeadbeef on April 19, 2019, 12:50:57 pm
Actually the MSO7054 is listed at around 10k€, so I would expect the 600MHz MSO8000 entry model to be quite a bit above that. Most probably in the 12k to 15k range.

Side note: the DS7000/MSO7000 line doesn't seem to sell very well. On top of the free addons, you currently get a free bandwidth update. So actually it doesn't seem to make any sense at the moment to buy a DS7054 or MSO7054 as buying a DS7034 or MSO7034 will give you the same bandwidth.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: TheSteve on June 12, 2019, 08:56:47 pm
The MSO8000 series must be close to release. I got to check out the MSO8104 today.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-mso8000-series/?action=dlattach;attach=761481;image)
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: thm_w on June 12, 2019, 11:07:16 pm
The MSO8000 series must be close to release. I got to check out the MSO8104 today.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-mso8000-series/?action=dlattach;attach=761481;image (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-mso8000-series/?action=dlattach;attach=761481;image)

No price on the card to the right I guess?
Where was that?
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: TheSteve on June 12, 2019, 11:27:08 pm
The MSO8000 series must be close to release. I got to check out the MSO8104 today.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-mso8000-series/?action=dlattach;attach=761481;image (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-mso8000-series/?action=dlattach;attach=761481;image)

No price on the card to the right I guess?
Where was that?

It was at the EPTECH electronics show in Vancouver. I was pretty impressed that not only was the Canadian distributor there but an actual Rigol rep also came up for the show. He also mentioned all in stock 5000 series in Canada should have the updated LCD brightness and quieter fan.
No price yet. I commented that I liked the black finish and he said it has only a received a so/so reception thus far.

The new Tek 3 series scope was also there but that was busiest booth so I didn't get to play with it.

As usual, no Keysight dealers or products at all :(
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: DaJMasta on June 12, 2019, 11:57:28 pm
If it's $2000, I'll buy it on the pre-sale. Any chance of it having 12bit resolution?  :D

Old post, I know, but definitely not.  Rigol developed their new acquisition system to be used across their product line, and it does not use 12 bit converters.  I think whenever the Phoenix II chipset comes around they'll move up to 10 bits, but I'd expect that's some years out still.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: tv84 on August 08, 2019, 01:08:55 pm
It has arrived!

https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/MSO8000/ (https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/MSO8000/)

MSO8064 - 600Mhz - $7,999
MSO8104 - 1GHz - $9,999
MSO8204 - 2GHz - $12,999

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-mso8000-series/?action=dlattach;attach=806112;image)
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: Daruosha on August 08, 2019, 02:22:18 pm
At $8,000 price point (with easy hackable possibilities to liberate 2GHz bandwidth), it looks very tempting. However the firmware quality is still questionable.

Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 08, 2019, 02:38:34 pm
Reusing the case for several models isn't a terrible idea, but it'd be good if they followed Dave's advice to hire a proper industrial designer. It's not horrid but it's not very good either.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: Sighound36 on August 08, 2019, 03:42:03 pm
Being a 5000 and 7000 owner I have a theory regarding the 8000 potential which TV84 unlocked on the 5000, against and will report back within a week as to whether it holds water.

Looks promising though!

Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: Daruosha on August 08, 2019, 04:18:03 pm
Reusing the case for several models isn't a terrible idea, but it'd be good if they followed Dave's advice to hire a proper industrial designer. It's not horrid but it's not very good either.

That "quick" button.  :palm:
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: DaJMasta on August 08, 2019, 04:40:07 pm
At $8,000 price point (with easy hackable possibilities to liberate 2GHz bandwidth), it looks very tempting. However the firmware quality is still questionable.

It will go a long way, hopefully since the hardware has got to be very similar to the 7000 series (after the front end, at least), they've been able to improve and refine the UI with adding more analysis features.


My biggest question, though: will it have eres?  A little looking through the datasheet answers it, I suppose, says there's an up to 12 bit high resolution mode.... but the DS7000 series I believe still doesn't have it.  I wonder if that's a software restriction to differentiate the 7000 and 8000 series line, it always seemed like a big oversight to me with the DS7000 series.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: timber23 on August 08, 2019, 04:51:22 pm
In Europe the price for the 600MHz version is € 8.566,81 incl. 19% VAT.
You can buy a software upgrade from 600MHz to 2GHz for € 6.305.
So I am convinced that it is hackable. But for me, the price is out of range.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: 0xdeadbeef on August 08, 2019, 05:05:23 pm
The list price of the 1GHz MSO8000 is lower than that of the 500MHz MSO7000!? That is somewhat surprising.
OK, right now the 7000 series is discounted, so you would get the 500MHz and all the options when buying the MSO7034 for slightly below 8k, but still.
They should definitely drop the 7000 series prices anyway since they are ridiculous.

Anyway, with the full optioned 1GHz RTM3000 being sold for less than the barenaked 1GHz MSO8104, I wonder if these will sell like hot cakes.
OK, the very likely hackability and the sample rate are somewhat tempting, but 8k6€ is too much for the typical hobbyist and in an industrial environment it's hard to imagine that someone would choose the MSO8000 over an RTM3000.

Still great to finally see an affordable 2GHz option. I sure hope that 1GHz scopes will be available for ~5k€ in the midterm.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: tv84 on August 08, 2019, 06:31:14 pm
So I am convinced that it is hackable. But for me, the price is out of range.

Maybe the HW of the 7000 is the same... (like the RSAs)
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: TurboTom on August 08, 2019, 06:52:57 pm
I'll never spend any (Euro)Cent on one of the new(ish) Rigol 5000/7000/8000 DSOs unless they change the horrible H/W frequency counter font.

...I know I must have got some problems...  ;)
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: timber23 on August 08, 2019, 07:57:44 pm
Maybe the HW of the 7000 is the same... (like the RSAs)

Okay, if it is possible to upgrade MSO7014 (€ 3.806,81) to MSO8204 (€ 13921.81) then I know what I'll buy next ;-)

I hope that someone will do a teardown and compare MSO7000 and MSO8000 hardware.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: TurboTom on August 08, 2019, 09:12:58 pm

When was the last time you saw someone tearing down a multi-thousand-dollar brand new test gear other than Shariah and Dave?

Hey Rigol: when can TSP or EEVBlog get each of those MSO7K/8K to take a look inside?

Sorry to intervene, but this is something that couldn't be further apart from Shahriar as I assess his character.

(Of course I know it's probably a typo but I had to add this anyway..)
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: timber23 on August 08, 2019, 09:15:17 pm

When was the last time you saw someone tearing down a multi-thousand-dollar brand new test gear other than Shariah and Dave?

Hey Rigol: when can TSP or EEVBlog get each of those MSO7K/8K to take a look inside?

Dave did a teardown on MSO7k. So only a teardown of MSO8K is missing.

Dave's teardown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AzXQ7sfYPU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AzXQ7sfYPU)
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: thm_w on August 08, 2019, 09:26:44 pm
I'm thinking the difference between a 1GHz front end and 2GHz is significant enough that they did some redesign (or PCB material difference)? For sure the rest of the hardware is identical though.

Probes:
RP7080 $2,100 only 0.8GHz.
RP7150 is $4,730, for 1.5GHz.

For some reason really pricey? The keysight N2796A Active Probe, 2 GHz, is about $2k as well. But not sure what you'd have to do to get it working..

Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: Martin72 on August 09, 2019, 07:09:45 pm
My biggest question, though: will it have eres?  A little looking through the datasheet answers it, I suppose, says there's an up to 12 bit high resolution mode.... but the DS7000 series I believe still doesn't have it.  I wonder if that's a software restriction to differentiate the 7000 and 8000 series line, it always seemed like a big oversight to me with the DS7000 series.

With the last FW Upgrade, the MSO5000 got 12 Bit hires - They call it hires… (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2231781/#msg2231781)

Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: DaJMasta on August 09, 2019, 07:22:17 pm
With the last FW Upgrade, the MSO5000 got 12 Bit hires - They call it hires… (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2231781/#msg2231781)

Very good!  Hopefully it comes to the DS7000s soon.  It was baffling to me that you'd build a chipset with such excessive sample rate for a low to midrange scope and then leave out the feature that could actually make it worth something....
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: Martin72 on August 09, 2019, 07:30:14 pm
Quote
Very good!

But it don´t work as I expected and know from lecroy or siglent scopes…
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: Sighound36 on August 09, 2019, 07:31:04 pm
The 7000 has high resolution mode it was incorporated in the FW upgrade
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: tv84 on August 09, 2019, 08:47:55 pm
The 7000 has high resolution mode it was incorporated in the FW upgrade

[Supported Model]    All the MSO/DS7000 Series Digital Oscilloscopes
[Latest Revision Date]  2019/07/23

[Updated Contents]
--------------------
v00.01.01.09.02  2019/07/23

     - Reduced the waveform noise floor
     - Optimized the waveform jitter caused by noise floor
     - Optimized the system response under the deep memory condition
     - Optimized the system response during the timebase adjustment process
     - Optimized the auto configuration condition for FFT waveform
     - Optimized the display effect during image saving
     - Modified the occasional problem of not displaying the measurement results
     - Optimized the user experience in cursor range adjustment in Measure setting
     - Modified relevant problems concerning SPI decoding
     - Modified address setting problems in I2C trigger
     - Added to save GPIB address setting during power-on storage
     - Modified the trigger sensitivity configuration. See Datasheet for details
     - Optimized the start-up time for the oscilloscope, shortening it to about 1 minute
     - Added a command  :MEASure:STATistic:ITEM? CNT,<item>[,<src>[,<src>]]
     - Supported exporting the waveform memory data of several analog channels simultaneously
    - Added high resolution mode
     - Supported mouse operation for cursor
     - Bandwidth upgrade option supported gradual upgrade
     - Added the 500 uV/div vertical scale
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: tv84 on August 09, 2019, 08:50:26 pm
Also, there is a MSO8000 FW already!!

https://www.rigol.com/File/ProductSoftWare/20190807/MSO8000(ARM)Update_00.01.01.00.00(1).rar (https://www.rigol.com/File/ProductSoftWare/20190807/MSO8000(ARM)Update_00.01.01.00.00(1).rar)

[Supported Model]    All the MSO8000 Series Digital Oscilloscopes
[Latest Revision Date]  2019/08/01

[Updated Contents]
--------------------

v00.01.01.00.00  2019/06/27

Notes: When the oscilloscope is booting, make sure that the HDMI interface is disconnected.

     - Release the production version.Update the LOGO

Available options:

Code: [Select]
BW6T10
BW6T20
BW10T20
MSO
2RL
5RL
BND
COMP
EMBD
AUTO
FLEX
AUDIO
SENSOR
AERO
ARINC
DG
JITTER
MASK
PWR
DVM
CTR
EDK

Possible starting parameters:

Code: [Select]
"-nointer"
"-ds8000"
"-notrace"
"-novcal"
"-nonv"
"-default"
"-noprivacy"
"-log_id"
"-log_engine"
"-no_horiplay"
"-sinc"
"-log_adc_cal"
"-noinit"
"-log_hori"
"-no_autoplay"
"-log_afe"
"-peak_compress"
"-no_cfg"

Interesting facts:

The Zynq FPGA programming is the same as in the latest DS7000 FW.

The K160 ASIC FPGA programming is not the same as in the DS7000 but it's the same as in the latest MSO5000.

The root password is the usual "Rigol201".

Kernel  / PCB designations:

MSO5000 / RSA5000 - Ke(r)strel
MSO7000 - Flamingo
MSO8000 - MartialEagle
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: thm_w on August 16, 2019, 06:13:53 pm
Also, there is a MSO8000 FW already!!

For some reason, they've re-released the same firmware version: https://cn.rigol.com/File/ProductSoftWare/20190816/MSO8000(ARM)Update_00.01.01.00.00.rar
MSO8000固件升级_00.01.01.00.00    67.42MB   2019-08-16   下载

The release notes, etc. are the same, but the GEL is does not match and is dated Aug 15 vs Aug 5. Maybe its just repacked though? I didn't know how to unpack it.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: tv84 on August 16, 2019, 07:46:24 pm
I didn't checked fully but seems a repack only. The .GEL file is a .TAR file.
Title: Re: Rigol MSO8000 Series
Post by: oliv3r on December 10, 2020, 09:28:00 pm
I'll never spend any (Euro)Cent on one of the new(ish) Rigol 5000/7000/8000 DSOs unless they change the horrible H/W frequency counter font.

...I know I must have got some problems...  ;)
Afaik, the font is not hard-coded in C, so you can do a custom firmware build which replaces the font :)