Author Topic: Rigol red screen of death  (Read 6920 times)

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Offline SkyMaster

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2018, 12:34:39 am »
There is also the yellow screen of death,

 and the snowy screen of death

Great, so over time we can expect a full rainbow  :-//.

Oh, sorry I was not trying to make fun of your situation  :-[

The DS1054Z that I had that was crashing randomly would boot normally (most of the time). Was your  DS1054Z still booting normally?

Maybe there are more than one cause that lead to a red/yellow/snowy display and unresponsive controls.

 

Offline Pinkus

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2018, 10:44:37 am »
As it is scrap right now anyway (sorry!) it might be worth to resolder it:
Wait until your wife is not at home. Remove the board and place it in an oven at max. temp for a re-solder of all parts / balls. The oven needs to stay closed all the time!!
After you are finished, make sure you cool down everything slowly (first open the door a bit, then after one minute completely; after another 2 minutes you may remove the board).

Caution: try this with another scrap board first!!! and check how long it takes until the solder melts everywhere.
Then add another 30 seconds as the Rigol board probably needs more time due to higher thermal mass.

Or (much much better) go and find a soldering company in your area and ask if they are willing to run your board through their solder oven.

Good luck!
 

Offline prasimix

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2018, 10:53:28 am »
There is also the yellow screen of death,

 and the snowy screen of death

Great, so over time we can expect a full rainbow  :-//.

Oh, sorry I was not trying to make fun of your situation  :-[

The DS1054Z that I had that was crashing randomly would boot normally (most of the time). Was your  DS1054Z still booting normally?

Maybe there are more than one cause that lead to a red/yellow/snowy display and unresponsive controls.

Hi SkyMaster, keeping a good sense of humor shouldn't hurt, actually situation is funny, on one power up it was worked fine, on another, it became unusable :). It seems that is not completely dead, since firmware (or what remained of it) can light on and off buttons and change red screen to black. And that's all. I already ordered another one from Batronix (DS instead of MSO, so I have to see how to compensate lost Logic Analyzer functionality) and this one is ready for auction for spare parts or maybe to put it in oven as Pinkus suggested.


Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2018, 10:57:54 am »
As it is scrap right now anyway (sorry!) it might be worth to resolder it:
Wait until your wife is not at home. Remove the board and place it in an oven at max. temp for a re-solder of all parts / balls. The oven needs to stay closed all the time!!

No! Please do not reflow anything "just because".
Baking hardware in the oven without knowing what actually causes the problem is more likely to make things even worse.

Like with every board repair: Follow the power lines first. Might be something simple like a bad cap or transistor.
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 
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Offline MadTux

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2018, 03:08:48 pm »
First, check all power rails for ripple, to exclude bad capacitors. Is there even a schematic available?

Otherwise, faults like these (sometimes it works, other times it doesn't, weird behaviour...) is quite typical for bad EPROM/Flash or rarely bad RAM. So I doubt reflowing will help. Unfortunately it's all BGA, so not easy to change or reprogram. Maybe try with JTAG?
 

Offline rhb

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2018, 03:37:37 pm »

I already ordered another one from Batronix (DS instead of MSO, so I have to see how to compensate lost Logic Analyzer functionality) and this one is ready for auction for spare parts or maybe to put it in oven as Pinkus suggested.


Have you asked if Rigol  would let you upgrade a DS1104Z Plus to the MSO1104Z using your existing probes?  That's a $50 price uptick over the DS1104Z in the US.
 

Offline prasimix

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2018, 03:39:48 pm »
I've asked for "new-for-old" swap but they are not offering that (actually this is "new-for-damaged" swap :)).

Offline ChrisG

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2018, 03:41:56 pm »
I had a black screen of death yesterday first time whilst. Was measuring some low Vpp simple 1Mhz Sine-Wave. Pressed the Single Trigger mode button and poofff: black screen.
 

Offline rhb

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2018, 04:22:36 pm »
I've asked for "new-for-old" swap but they are not offering that (actually this is "new-for-damaged" swap :)).

Which leaves will the LA probe work in a Plus without hacking.

I  had a trashed screen appear a couple of times a few months ago.  Fortunately it has not reappeared, but I've not had the scope on much.

I have had repeated experience with solder flux residue causing faults in high humidity conditions.  Cleaning off the flux residue with isopropyl alcohol has solved the problem several times.  Flux is hygroscopic and as it absorbs moisture from the air it changes properties.  I first started seeing this when 3.3 V and lower logic started becoming common.   In the past I didn't have the tools to probe the problem so I just settled for cleaning.  It took two tries on my stereo, but it's worked fine for a couple of years since I did it.  Before I did it would fail to recognize that it had a disk because the disk  not spinning.

Before you open the box the new scope comes in you might find it useful to open up the old one and look for flux residue, particularly around the logic lines and if you find any,  clean it off with 99% IPA and a soft brush. 

My DS1102E is now out of warranty, so I'm going to take a look. 
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2018, 08:48:15 pm »
Well, the cadaver is now in my yard, waiting for dissection and frankestein-ization  >:D.

Many thanks to @prasimix that shipped the whole carcass to DE for a very reasonable price and to @rhb that remembered that I've got another Rigol body part, a mainboard from an 1104Z and let me know that the deceased from @prasimix is available  :-+ :-+ :-+.

I will keep this zombi thread alive for a while, starting with the first naive question:
What is the best way to open the case without denting it ?

 Cheers,
 DC1MC
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2018, 08:59:07 pm »
What is the best way to open the case without denting it ?

Huh? What is the way to open the case with denting it?

(Hint: Remove the screws first...)  ;)
 

Online Shock

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2018, 09:38:37 pm »
Dave shows the general idea in this video. Careful about putting the instrument on it's face though especially on a hard bench.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
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Offline DC1MC

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2018, 10:37:35 pm »
What is the best way to open the case without denting it ?

Huh? What is the way to open the case with denting it?

(Hint: Remove the screws first...)  ;)

Meh, I'm tired, I've seen the ones hidden by the handle but postponed the opening for the next days.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC
 

Offline rhb

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2018, 11:58:56 pm »
If the power button interferes, pull it off.  Don't break the switch the way I did.  Replacement on its way from China, but I felt pretty stupid.  I *do* know better.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2018, 05:34:45 am »
Meh, I'm tired, I've seen the ones hidden by the handle but postponed the opening for the next days.

It's really just the two screws behind the handle, and another two on the bottom. The plastic enclosure then opens easily, no hidden plastic latches or such. If I recall correctly, you don't even have to take off the front, but can remove the back only. If you want to remove the front too, pull off all the knobs first. No need to remove the power button, in my experience.

The internal metal enclosure is held together by quite a few screws, but they are all clearly visible. Again, no further trickery with latches or such; the enclosure opens quite easily. (But beware of sharp edges of the punched metal.)

All screws are the same Torx size, by the way. Rigol did a pretty nice job designing a robust and serviceable enclosure.
 

Offline Hydron

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2018, 03:38:47 pm »
As mentioned, there's four screws (and a warranty void sticker :P) holding the back on. Inside you'll find a bunch more screws, and will also need to unscrew the BNC nut and unclip the power supply and fan (I think) to get the internal steel shell and PSU fully off the motherboard.
To disassemble further just keep going with the motherboard/front panel screws, and you'll need to take the knobs off as mentioned. There are probably some more BNC nuts to remove, but as far as I can remember, no nasty plastic clips or anything to trip you up.
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2018, 05:45:11 pm »
Thanks all for the advice.
I was wondering if anybody knows the mainboard connectors for imx28 serial interface for debugging and FPGA RDY signal ?

 Cheers,
 DC1MC
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2018, 08:31:25 pm »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
VICTORY !!!
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It works like a charm, the issue, as I've imagined, was the crappy NAND flash, probably 95% of all the non-booting scopes with different colored screens.

EDIT:
It was the  >:D >:D >:D gremlins with missing keys in the memory dump, second memory dump was OK, all options available, now  is a MSO1104Z  ^-^ plus extra options 0.5mV/DIV, "DG" and "Power Ana(log ?)", does anybody know what is with last two options ?

"DG" could mean Data Generator, how can one access or control it ?
"Power ana", well this is a full mystery to me :-//, any help is very appreciated.
I'll make a new topic about them, this could be interesting for other people as well.

On the other side:
"...dumped 67108863 bytes in 8789.756836s (7.456 KiB/s)"

Please, if you have any ideas about a fast and relatively cheap JTAG adapter either reply here or in my "Other Devices" topic, this "USB Blaster" is beyond pathetic.

Now finally we can close this topic.

   Cheers,
   DC1MC
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 03:12:48 pm by DC1MC »
 
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Offline t_i_t_o

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2018, 07:18:23 am »
As a last resort you can always hardware-enable the 100MHz bandwidth, un-mounting both bandwidth limiting capacitors on all four channels.
 

Offline Pinkus

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2018, 07:55:29 am »
As a last resort you can always hardware-enable the 100MHz bandwidth, un-mounting both bandwidth limiting capacitors on all four channels.
Careful! Probably this would require a new calibration of the scope.
 

Offline imidis

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2018, 08:01:46 am »
Can you not use riglol to generate a key?
Gone for good
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2018, 09:04:08 am »
Can you not use riglol to generate a key?

You probably wanted to say rigup, the memory dump scanner, of course I've tried to use it, after painfully dumping the memory and... "No keys found"  |O
I wasn't collecting it a good point, or the SP3 version of the software closed this loop or is a special East European version, with even more difficult ways to upgrade it  >:D.
I will try to collect another dump, but I'm pissed off that I just nicely closed the scope and wanted to open it again only when the silent fan arrives, but now I have to force myself to open it again(still hi fever and adverse reactions of this bloody strong antibiotics :( ) and collect a new memory dump, I don't know how long I survive and don't want to let the job unfinished.

I had a faint hope that one of the original researches wold look into the dump, but most likely the dump is invalid, if the second dump fails, I'll post in original mega-thread.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC
   
 

Offline imidis

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2018, 09:05:59 am »
Eck sorry, didn't notice it's an MSO.  :palm: I hope you have luck!  :)
Gone for good
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2018, 03:15:45 pm »
Eck sorry, didn't notice it's an MSO.  :palm: I hope you have luck!  :)

I've had a bit of luck  (please see edit above) and thanks to all for the good words and advice, it really helped my shaken spirit with all this sickness.

Cheers,
DC1MC
 
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Offline helge

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Re: Rigol red screen of death
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2019, 06:02:56 pm »
Sorry for reviving this thread, but we're having a little "Black Screen Of Death" situation here - scope worked, removed thumb drive, turned off, turned on again, now it only produces a buzzing sound (~20 Hz). It experienced a very light knock on the backside of the enclosure while picking it up from the place where it stood which really shouldn't have caused any issues and may be coincidental. Very strange - Here are the SMPS open-circuit voltages:

Blue: 15.28 (17.5 V)
Grey: -15.16 (-17.5 V)
White: 8.84 (9.0 V)
Yellow: 6.02 (7.5 V)
Green: -5.98 (-7.5 V)
Red: 4.42 (5.0 V)
Brown: -0.03 (OPTO)
Orange: 0 (GND)


current suspicion is that the SMPS PCB flexed and a voltage divider resistor broke - having the heaviest components in the center and only being mounted on the short sides would be asking for flexural damage.

component side image is from Dave's teardown (EEVblog #674),
solder side image is from what we're looking at here, while the top is identical (also V01.01_20130504)


Has anyone seen this behavior so far? It really feels like a very odd failure mode.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 08:01:09 pm by helge »
 


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