Author Topic: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200  (Read 127815 times)

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Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #300 on: October 29, 2021, 05:26:45 pm »
Hi - just reading the posts.  Where can one get the latest version of FreRes these days.  I did find version 4.3.1 but I do see screenshots of a version 5.x.x  The links given in the older posts do not seem to be valid anymore and searching for the application note 1ma09 on the Rohde website comes up with nothing (granted this software is old now I'd say).  If anyone happnes to have info on where to download that would be great.

This is the latest version I have (will be 4 parts). File to be renamed to "1MA009_FreRes64_522.z01" as only zip files are allowed.
 

Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #301 on: October 29, 2021, 05:29:33 pm »
This is the latest version I have (will be 4 parts).

Rename to "1MA009_FreRes64_522.z02"
 

Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #302 on: October 29, 2021, 05:30:57 pm »
This is the latest version I have (will be 4 parts).

Rename to "1MA009_FreRes64_522.z03"
 

Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #303 on: October 29, 2021, 05:33:13 pm »
This is the latest version I have (will be 4 parts).

Final part (no renaming required). Enjoy!
 

Offline Robert763

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #304 on: November 02, 2021, 12:10:29 pm »
I'm having trouble with FreRes and a CMU200 (Actually a CRTU-RU running CMU200 Base software). The problem has been reported here before but no solution (other than a Python script). The issue is normalisation. you can do a sweep and click the normailse button and all seems OK. But when you click the play/sweep button next the program crashes. Happens with both FreRes64 5.55 and 5.30 on a R&S CMW-CU (Windows Embedded).
Anyone seen this or have a fix?
 

Offline Robert763

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #305 on: November 02, 2021, 03:06:59 pm »
So I've been having a play and found a work-around for the normalise crashing FreRes. It might actually be how it's supposed to work, but not according to the help file.

You make the reference sweep with the Sweep / Play button.
Then click the normalise button. You should get a flat line.
Change the test component setup as required then click the REPEAT button.
You can click repeat multiple times.
 
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Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #306 on: November 02, 2021, 06:49:10 pm »
So I've been having a play and found a work-around for the normalise crashing FreRes. It might actually be how it's supposed to work, but not according to the help file.

You make the reference sweep with the Sweep / Play button.
Then click the normalise button. You should get a flat line.
Change the test component setup as required then click the REPEAT button.
You can click repeat multiple times.

Thanks for posting this! I remember I also tried this function, but gave up.
 

Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #307 on: February 14, 2023, 05:07:30 pm »
For all those interested in getting a CMU200 – or perhaps already have one – I recently posted a series of videos discussing the use of the CMU as a general-purpose measurement device:

REL #18 Using a CMU200 in the 2020s
REL #19 CMU200 Checking its condition
REL #20 CMU200 Update Firmware ?!?
REL #21 CMU200 RF I/O power levels
REL #22 CMU200 as an RF Power Meter

In every episode, I try to add less-known facts, information, and tips. For instance, #21 and #22 show the schematics of the diode-based power meter implemented in the CMU.

1716233-1

In the future, I plan to add the following episodes:
-   CMU200 as a spectrum analyzer
-   CMU200 as an RF signal generator
-   CMU200 as an audio analyzer

Hope you enjoy the videos! And if you have specific tips or ideas on what the videos should include, let me know…
 
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Offline usagi

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #308 on: March 28, 2023, 02:26:41 am »
CMU200 as a spectrum analyzer would be the best video to do  :-+

don't forget the use of freeres as a tracking generator.

Offline richnormand

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #309 on: March 28, 2023, 04:31:01 pm »
All excellent suggestions RBBVNL9.

They cover all the useful stuff for someone that picked up a CMU200 for use as an instrument instead of a cell phone testing device.
Of note are the mixers also available on ebay to extend the low frequency range of the SA that you could include. They are inexpensive and easy to use.

Also. how about a video for installation of the B17 I/Q IF interface option module.
It is a popular add-on for the CMU200 that do not have it and they are available on ebay.
You could also talk of what are incompatibilities with some existing modules and such.
A second video about its usage and performance would complete the set.

Another on is the high stability reference oscillator B12 option that is also widely available.

Appreciate your videos, please continue the good work.
Cheers.... :)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 04:34:16 pm by richnormand »
Repair, Renew, Reuse, Recycle, Rebuild, Reduce, Recover, Repurpose, Restore, Refurbish, Recondition, Renovate
 

Offline pdenisowski

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #310 on: March 28, 2023, 10:22:51 pm »
Appreciate your videos, please continue the good work.

Yes, those are really great videos - thanks @rbbvnl9 for making them!

Glad to see the CMU is still being used:  we made (literally) tens of thousands of them.  There was even one on display at the Deutsches Museuem in Munich at one point :)
Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 

Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #311 on: April 09, 2023, 08:16:22 am »
Dear all, thanks for the compliments. Positive feedback is helping me to keep going on this ;-)

Concerning hardware…

Quote
CMU200 as a spectrum analyzer would be the best video to do  :-+

Certainly. It's in my planning!

Quote
Also. how about a video for installation of the B17 I/Q IF interface option module.

Also planned ;-) Have already bought this module a couple of months ago, which I will use for this!

But it may take a moment; currently I am working for a while in Japan, and travelling around that country. 

Concerning software…

Now, here is where it gets a bit more complicated. My current thinking is to test the following:
  • Remote Service Tool V1.7.1 (by R&S)
  • FreRes (by R&S)
  • CMUgo (by R&S)
  • VMA Spectrum Analyzer (by Vitor)

The issue is that I do not get these all to work. I purchased a Keysight/Agilent 82357B USB/GPIB Interface and installed the Keysight IO Libraries Suite 15 on a contemporary PC running Windows 10. I think this Keysight solution is a rather common one, and also the documentation of R&S on this usually refers to the Keysight IO Libraries as one of the supported options, if not the preferred connection option. While the Keysight IO Libraries Suite 15 perfectly sees all my CMU’s and other GPIB devices, I struggle with the above software to get it connected in the first place (FreRes) or working properly (the others).

When I get back from Japan and have time to test this a bit more, I will post a more specific post in the already existing FreRes thread. But what is not helping either is that (1) that R&S only seems to post older versions of this software on the website (v3.22 is here), but I know the newest one is at least 5.3.0; (2) the four R&S FreRes manuals I managed to find are different in terms of compatibility requirements listed, but these manuals do no state to which software version they correspond (and adding to the difficulty is that that two rather difference manuals have the same reference (1MA09_4E) ?!?

Perhaps the issues relate to using a much later Windows version than that was available when this software was developed, so I am considering to also set up a much older PC (Windows XP?) as a kind of sandbox and installing the Keysight IO Libraries in an older version (e.g., from the CD that shipped with the GPIB interface) to see whether that gives more luck…

Best, Rudi
 

Offline Bicurico

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #312 on: April 09, 2023, 08:53:01 am »
Hello Rudi,

Drop me an email and I will help you with the connection.

Also, on my blog you will find an entry on how to configure everything. Note that you need to run FW starting with 4.xx to be able to connect and you need to configure primary and secondary address.

Regards,
Vitor

Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #313 on: April 09, 2023, 11:35:06 pm »
Dear Vitor,

I did manage to get VMA Spectrum Analyzer running - I should have been more clear on this. Really like it, especially the waterfall plot, allowing to see certain patterns for time-dependent signals. Only wish the waterfall could be shown larger ;-)

Best, Rudi
 

Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #314 on: April 28, 2023, 12:24:20 am »
The CMU200 can output its screen to an external VGA monitor – fairly standard 640 x 480 pixels mode – and senses at boot whether such a monitor is connected; otherwise, this output remains disabled.

I have several CMUs and want to use a ‘mechanical’ VGA switch to select which CMUs screen to show on a monitor (and at the same time send it to a video-grabbing device). Because of the sensing part, my current procedure is rather cumbersome: I need to select each CMU one by one on the VGA switch, have it boot up, then go to the next one, etc. I would rather be able to turn all CMUs and make them all believe there is a monitor connected.

Doing some quick search, I understand that, over time, different methods were used to sense a monitor via VGA:
-   A resistance of 75 ohms between each video output line (R, G, B) to ground.
-   Connect any (combination) of the Monitor ID Bits (pin 11, 12, and 15 for bit0, bit1 and bit2, respectively).
-   An I2C signal (SDA on pin 12, SLC on pin 15), used by the VGA Video BIOS to access a 128 byte or 256 byte serial EEPROM memory in the monitor to determine its specifications.

 Before I go into measuring and digging this out, is there anyone that knows how the CMU senses the presence of a monitor? If yes, that would be quite helpful…

I have a bit of the same question for my AMU200A. It has a more advanced video card than the CMU, and runs Windows XP Embedded, and may or may not sense the monitor the same way as the CMU does…

Thanks! Rudi

 

Offline William

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #315 on: May 15, 2023, 03:21:22 pm »
I have the same (problem 2 watt on a what shoud be 50 Watt on a 1100-0008-30

Did you solve it and would you like to share a solution. or is a .02 simple the better solution, i still can switch.
Regards William

 

Offline ps

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #316 on: May 20, 2023, 03:39:49 pm »
50 W input capability requires a big 50 termination resistor inside the RF frontend, plus some nice heatsink fins at the bottom of this module. There is an optional second RF generator, that sits exactly at this position. Option B95 or 96 or something like this. So whenever this second generator is present, you do not have the heatsink and therefore cannot use the 50 W.
 

Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #317 on: May 20, 2023, 04:16:08 pm »
Quote
50 W input capability requires a big 50 termination resistor inside the RF frontend, plus some nice heatsink fins at the bottom of this module. There is an optional second RF generator, that sits exactly at this position. Option B95 or 96 or something like this. So whenever this second generator is present, you do not have the heatsink and therefore cannot use the 50 W.

That is indeed true. The below picture (from the video I talked about here earlier) shows the input power levels of the CMU200 on the four CMU200 inputs, and how they depend on the various options installed.

The RF1 input power depends on option B95 or B96, but also on 'option' U99 (sometimes also called B99). I put option in brackets because this one is more a downgrade than an upgrade of the instrument...
« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 04:18:15 pm by RBBVNL9 »
 

Offline ps

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #318 on: May 20, 2023, 04:20:08 pm »
U99 is a modification ("Umbau") required to install B95/96. This is more or less removing the heat sink. U99 is always present if you have the B95/96 option, whether it was specifically mentioned or not.

If you order U99 without adding B95/96 (why should someone do this?), it is called B99.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 04:23:35 pm by ps »
 

Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #319 on: May 21, 2023, 06:56:54 am »
Quote
U99 is a modification ("Umbau") required to install B95/96. This is more or less removing the heat sink. U99 is always present if you have the B95/96 option, whether it was specifically mentioned or not.

Thanks for sharing that, now we know where the "U" and "B" come from ;-)

Quote
If you order U99 without adding B95/96 (why should someone do this?), it is called B99.

I also wonder why someone would do that.... But it does happen: one of my three units has B99, but does not have B95 or B96. This is the worst configuration; perhaps it was cheaper?!?
 

Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #320 on: May 28, 2023, 09:14:39 am »
Quote
CMU200 as a spectrum analyzer would be the best video to do  :-+
Quote
don't forget the use of freeres as a tracking generator.

Upon request, I now made a YouTube video on using the Rohde & Schwarz CMU200 as a Spectrum Analyzer. Actually, I made two: one as a stand-alone device and one when the CMU is used together with other software (FreRes and VMA).

In the video's I basically ask the question: "Is the CMU200 worth turning to, even if it is some 20 years old?". To do so, I put it side to side to the FPC1500, the current entry-level spectrum analyzer of R&S. As you will see in the videos, there are indeed reasons why you might want to turn to a CMU ;-) I also wonder whether people earlier in this threat called the 'missing' preamplifier' is really an issue or not. 

In the software video, I explore how Rohde & Schwarz FreRes (v5.30) and VMA Spectrum Analyzer for Rohde & Schwarz CRTU (By VMA'S SATELLITE BLOG) can significantly add to the functionalities of the CMU. Teaser: I also find some serious problems with FreRes, and started to enjoy VNA (even if it cannot exactly do what FreRes was designed for).

Enjoy, and thanks for the positive feedback I already received on the video series of the CMU!

 https://youtu.be/I_sxesKyAXE

https://youtu.be/-OL2PRv5Vhs
 

Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #321 on: May 28, 2023, 12:24:08 pm »
Quote
CMU200 as a spectrum analyzer would be the best video to do  :-+
Quote
don't forget the use of freeres as a tracking generator.

Upon request, I now made a YouTube video on using the Rohde & Schwarz CMU200 as a Spectrum Analyzer. Actually, I made two: one as a stand-alone device and one when the CMU is used together with other software (FreRes and VMA).

In the video's I basically ask the question: "Is the CMU200 worth turning to, even if it is some 20 years old?". To do so, I put it side to side to the FPC1500, the current entry-level spectrum analyzer of R&S. As you will see in the videos, there are indeed reasons why you might want to turn to a CMU ;-) I also wonder whether people earlier in this threat called the 'missing' preamplifier' is really an issue or not. 

In the software video, I explore how Rohde & Schwarz FreRes (v5.30) and VMA Spectrum Analyzer for Rohde & Schwarz CRTU (By VMA'S SATELLITE BLOG) can significantly add to the functionalities of the CMU. Teaser: I also find some serious problems with FreRes, and started to enjoy VNA (even if it cannot exactly do what FreRes was designed for).

Enjoy, and thanks for the positive feedback I already received on the video series of the CMU!

 https://youtu.be/I_sxesKyAXE

https://youtu.be/-OL2PRv5Vhs

Nice video's!

Some comments (also posted on youtube):

For the issue with points and comma's, this could be easily fixed by Viktor if he adds the following lines when his main form is loaded:

CultureInfo newCulture = CultureInfo.CreateSpecificCulture("en-US");
Thread.CurrentThread.CurrentUICulture = newCulture;
Thread.CurrentThread.CurrentCulture = newCulture;


This forces the dotNet culture to a specific culture, and not take the culture from the OS it is running on (which is the default).

As for the Freres normalization, you should use the "repeat" button instead of "start" after a normalization. This does work correctly as far as I remember. Repeat can be used multiple times and adds additional corrected sweeps.

As for the dips in the spectrum using the VMA software, this is probably because the generator needs some settling time when switches between frequencies. If Viktor would add a configurable time the signal remains on at the same frequency, this function would work in one sweep, but the synchronous implementation of Fre-Res still seems the better approach.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 12:44:14 pm by _Wim_ »
 

Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #322 on: May 28, 2023, 12:51:56 pm »
As for the Freres normalization, you should use the "repeat" button instead of "start" after a normalization. This does work correctly as far as I remember. Repeat can be used multiple times and adds additional corrected sweeps.

This document has a section about using fre-res with normalization (from page 72 onwards):

https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma201_1/1MA201_9e_spectrum_analyzers_meas.pdf

 

Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #323 on: May 28, 2023, 01:32:04 pm »
As for the Freres normalization, you should use the "repeat" button instead of "start" after a normalization. This does work correctly as far as I remember. Repeat can be used multiple times and adds additional corrected sweeps.

This document has a section about using fre-res with normalization (from page 72 onwards):

https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma201_1/1MA201_9e_spectrum_analyzers_meas.pdf

Just had a quick check in the lab, with Fre-Res 5.3.0 normalize does indeed work.

In summary:
1) use the play button to measure your reference plot
2) normalize the receiver
3) use repeat to add additional normalized traces of the DUT (with the minus button traces can be deleted)
4) press "stop" to end. When the play button is now used, all traces as well as the normalization are deleted.
 

Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #324 on: May 28, 2023, 02:01:35 pm »
Dear all, thanks for the various replies. Indeed, I can now confirm lake others have said that FreRes normalisation does work when one uses "repeat" rather than "start". Great to know (but if this is the way the user is supposed to work, it would have been better of R&S to prevent a crash if the user did something different).

The normalisation crash was not my only issue with FreRes, however. Below is a list of particularities, issues and crashes I jotted down when trying it in the last days...

  • Predictable crash when using “start” right after “normalize” (but using “repeat” instead of “start” solves that issue)
  • Using ‘Level sweep’ (great for detecting linearity issues!), the program sometimes performs the measurement as expected; at other times, it does not execute the expected sweeps.
  • Occasional crashes when:
              switching from ABS to REL
              activating the LOG in the sweep settings (not in the display settings)
              Using level sweep
  • Setting a ‘Dwell time’ different from 0 does not seem to result in the expected pause
  • “Power Measurement Error” appearing at random moments. Repeating the exact same measurement later usually results in no errors. (It might be the CMU itself, but this is hard to tell)
  • The actual sweep time (left bottom) is only shown correctly after a sweep is already over. It would be great to have this as a predicting value (so, when you increase the steps by a factor of two, and select a different frequency range, the indicator could show how long that would take).
  • When using “repeat”, earlier measurements should stay on the screen. Sometimes, I do eight measurements and they all stay. Sometimes, at the fifth measurement, the previous ones are deleted.
  • Sometimes (not always), the program starts by showing “Level/dBm) on the left axis of the graph and “Rel. Level / dB” on the right side of the graph (see my video) . But after a couple of operations, the right side disappears. When both readings are there, that is nice, but when the “relative” switch is used, the right-hand side value (being relative) is no longer correct.
  • Sometimes (not always) the program starts by not showing a legend on the left side of the graph at all (!)
  • “Delete the last trace” (while using repeat mode) sometimes works, sometimes not.
  • After a crash, the program starts with the same parameters the next time you start. You may need to change those parameters to prevent an crash again when doing a sweep.

I might have gotten some points wrong, of course, Please correct me if I did, or add if you know more ;-)
 


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