Author Topic: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200  (Read 51519 times)

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Offline msraya

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2016, 08:51:12 am »

The free software FreRes from Rohde & Schwarz allows to make sweep and test for example filters or duplexers.

Manuel
 
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Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2016, 11:14:29 am »

The free software FreRes from Rohde & Schwarz allows to make sweep and test for example filters or duplexers.

Manuel

Thanks for the tip. I seem to remember this did not work in the previous version I had. Lastest version can be downloaded here: https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/applications/freres-program-for-frequency-response-measurements-application-note_56280-15551.html
 

Offline richnormand

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2016, 04:32:43 pm »
Hi everybody

I just bought 3 dead CMU200 from a mobile company. They both had faulty PSUs but i manage to repair 2 of them which had issue with standby PSU, only faulty TOP200YN converter IC  :D

One unit had a Non-volatile Ram Empty error with Model CMU XXX and no Serial, work with only basic function, my guess would be the PSU fail at the time they update the firmware. In version manager i do see a choice to copy NVRAM to disk, but couldnt find the other way back  :-\

The other unit work ok with all software option at start, but after few days the start-up process stuck at BaseDiscoverOptionsEnd with the Link LED in Digital Board blink sometime, i had trace the problem to the Digital Board by exchange with other unit but dont have any info to debug it. Anybody have the same error like this one ?

Hi hoangviet,

I seem to have a related issue with my CMU200. Although I think the standby supply is working and it is the secondary supplies that do not start. Either it does not get the power on signal or there is somthing wrong with the power-good signal. I removed all modules from the motherboard in case of a short, but, no luck.  Could you read my post and feedback any thoughts you might have. Since I do not have any pinouts on the plugs or schematics it will require lots of tracing, assuming the front control panel is not the cause.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwartz-universal-radio-communication-tester-cmu200-psu-issues/

Anyone else with any experience fixing the CMU200 PSU here? Please chime in.

Cheers and thanks.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwartz-universal-radio-communication-tester-cmu200-psu-issues/

« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 08:24:03 pm by richnormand »
 

Offline msraya

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2016, 06:48:50 pm »
Hello!

The HDD of my CMU200 is a HITACHI MK2018GAP with 20Gbytes but with only a 2GB partition  :-//.
I try a KingSpeed SSD PATA 32GB with no luck.
Also I try a hgst 40GBytes ATA from my old laptop with no luck.
I think It is possible to enter the disk geometry manually in Bios, but I do not have information about the parameters of the disks.

But It appears that the BIOS is very OLD and doesn't read new hard disk..
I will try with a Compact Flash Adapter...

I would install Windows 2000, but I need a DB9 mouse  |O. I open the mainboard FRM5+8B version to see that It has a only 128MB module from a two sockets, the Intel 430TX Triton chipset must have some USB ports, but where are theses ports????

I will upgrade the memory. However, the old MSDOS Software uses Pharlap DOS Extender and DPMI mode, using only 64Mbytes.. so not interesting to upgrade RAM unless The Old software works under Windows, that I think that is not possible...

So.. please..  some advice...
Thank You!!

Manuel
 

Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2016, 08:20:19 pm »
Hello!

The HDD of my CMU200 is a HITACHI MK2018GAP with 20Gbytes but with only a 2GB partition  :-//.
I try a KingSpeed SSD PATA 32GB with no luck.
Also I try a hgst 40GBytes ATA from my old laptop with no luck.
I think It is possible to enter the disk geometry manually in Bios, but I do not have information about the parameters of the disks.

But It appears that the BIOS is very OLD and doesn't read new hard disk..
I will try with a Compact Flash Adapter...

I would install Windows 2000, but I need a DB9 mouse  |O. I open the mainboard FRM5+8B version to see that It has a only 128MB module from a two sockets, the Intel 430TX Triton chipset must have some USB ports, but where are theses ports????

I will upgrade the memory. However, the old MSDOS Software uses Pharlap DOS Extender and DPMI mode, using only 64Mbytes.. so not interesting to upgrade RAM unless The Old software works under Windows, that I think that is not possible...

So.. please..  some advice...
Thank You!!

Manuel

See my previous post on this subject: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rs-cmu200-software-(firmware)/msg779471/#msg779471

My HD was also 20GB with 2GB partition, and replaced it with a 40GB one...
 

Offline msraya

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2016, 08:30:24 pm »
Thank You _Wim_ but The BIOS does'nt recognize the Hard Disk.. son I cannot make anything..
The screen freezzes in Detecting HDD Drive.... and I must make a hard reset.

It could be the BIOS versiĆ³n, I don't know..
I have the backup file, no problem, thanks to your post, that I read before..

So, I must found an HDD that Works with that BIOS.. I need perhaps a HDD of no more than 8GBytes. A Compact Flash with adapter would be ideal..

Regards
Manuel
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 08:44:50 pm by msraya »
 

Offline _Wim_

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2016, 08:35:16 pm »
I also tried a compact flash with adaptor first, but had no luck with that. (I tried with this one: http://www.dx.com/p/sd-to-2-5-ide-adapter-card-227040)
 

Offline MasterTech

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2016, 08:58:56 pm »
First thing on arrival of the crtu I did make a security copy of the hdd with sucess. It uses a fujitsu 120Gb MHV2120AH, had to buy the same one, but I guess any iDE  hdd with higher capacity would have done it. I did a brute force copy ( with the dd commmand) from the hdd to my computer and back, the whole thing took 17 hours to complete!!!

edit:ide interface
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 04:09:56 am by MasterTech »
 

Offline ZL1CVD

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2016, 01:15:45 am »
I have backed up both CMU200 & CRTU-RU with the portable tool _Wim_ suggested http://hddguru.com/software/HDD-Raw-Copy-Tool/  :-+

Like _Wim_ I removed drive, attached to USB>IDE adapter (GL811E chipset - very old one I had lying around) to make the image. Takes around an hour or two and your done.

The HDD-Raw-Copy-Tool tool does a sector by sector copy of the entire drive. The resulting RAW image can be opened by a tool like PowerISO and this what I used to upgraded the CMU200 DOS software.

Both the CMU200 Celeron and CRTU-RU Pentium III boards have worked with various Fujitsu 20GB and IBM 30GB IDE drives I have connected.  BIOS has autodetected all OK. I have replaced the CMU200 drive with Kingspec PATA IDE 2.5" 32GB SSD and again HDD-Raw-Copy-Tool was used to write the image to the drive before installation. Now the CMU200 boots like a rocket.

I note the Award BIOS FLASH tool and bios image can be found in \internal\install\bios folder. Run the batch file FLASH.BAT to reflash.

Oh, and something I haven't done for years, plugged the IDE cable incorrectly and burnt out a power wire. Thought the CRTU-RU had smoked it was just the wire.  The SSD comes with same type of IDE cable - just longer. Put my glasses on this time when I reconnected it and everything ran fine.

Another tidbit - the Windows 2000 default password for user Administrator is blank on the CRTU-RU. Which is good as I haven't found a way to successfully boot from USB flash drive yet.
 
 

Offline dcarr

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2016, 03:17:19 am »

The free software FreRes from Rohde & Schwarz allows to make sweep and test for example filters or duplexers.

Manuel

Hi Manuel,

Are you using RS232 or a GPIB adapter with FreRes?  Also, how fast is the sweep rate?

Thanks,
David
 

Offline msraya

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2016, 04:46:33 pm »
Hello dcarr:

I'm using a genuine Agilent GPIB <-> USB adapter and I don't have any problems. The CMU200 uses GPIB multiple addressing, so if you use a third party not full GPIB adapter you will have problems. The sweep rate is slow. You can forget to have real time sweep.. but it is working, and I think the precision is enough.
I will try to program my own software when I can..

Thanks, ZL1CVD, but I do not have folder bios... so I think your unit is newer... You can drop me the files, but I'm afraid to use the wrong bios image and convert my unit in an expensive paperweight. HI HI..

What happens if I use a image from another unit in my unit??  It can boot?  Or it needs proper serial numbers?? I will lost the calibration??  Someone Try this??  :blah:

Manuel
 

Offline ZL1CVD

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2016, 04:44:43 am »
From what I understand, calibration is stored in EEPROM on each R&S module installed. When you change a module, you run VersionManager (press menu/select key while DOS R&S boot screen shows). When VersionManager starts up, you then select "Firmware upgrade after board change" and this rebuilds what R&S refer to as 'tables' - I assume these 'tables' to be the module specific calibration data. 

I have connected the HDD from a CMU200 to a CRTU-RU and it booted up fine. I wanted to see if there were any options in the latest DOS software to handle switching in the B17 Analogue I/Q IF interface that is installed in my CRTU-RU. I could not find anything. I can only find a Windows application to control this. I'll read manuals more but suspect GPIB will have everything I need.
 

Offline msraya

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2016, 10:43:43 am »
Thank You ZL1CVD for your advice! I made a Firmware Upgrade Change to try to upgrade the B41 firmware and It worked. But I cannot see any changes...

I update today the SW with the help of Wim and the Remote Service Tool..   When the update process finished, the unit not boot anymore..   :wtf:

I get the HDD and when I put on PC I see that the data are destroyed.. so a faulty HDD perhaps... Then I write on it the backup version that I have and the unit come to life..  :clap:

So.. no HDD faulty.. Wrong update process?? I don't know..
I want to update firmware for B41 option from 3.03 to upper level, for extract SINAD result by GPIB, but no luck... The software upgrade doesn't upgrade the internal B41 firmware  :-//

When I receive another TOSHIBA HDD that I buyed I would try to upgrade again and install partition magic and a Windows 2000 partition.. I will need software for Windows 2000 that I doesn't have... If someone have?

If I success at it I will make a short tutorial of the process for all the CMU200 users over there..  :popcorn:

By the way.. Someone knows how to use the Frontal Speaker with the B41 application???
I looked for GPIB commands or application options with no avail...  :--

Manuel
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 10:51:41 am by msraya »
 

Offline hoangviet

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2016, 10:10:48 am »
Hi hoangviet,

I seem to have a related issue with my CMU200. Although I think the standby supply is working and it is the secondary supplies that do not start. Either it does not get the power on signal or there is somthing wrong with the power-good signal. I removed all modules from the motherboard in case of a short, but, no luck.  Could you read my post and feedback any thoughts you might have. Since I do not have any pinouts on the plugs or schematics it will require lots of tracing, assuming the front control panel is not the cause.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwartz-universal-radio-communication-tester-cmu200-psu-issues/

Anyone else with any experience fixing the CMU200 PSU here? Please chime in.

Cheers and thanks.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwartz-universal-radio-communication-tester-cmu200-psu-issues/

Hi richnormand,
When i received my CMU200, the unit was totally dead, there was no LED light up when i plug in the power. Also i have another unit that does power on but the screen is dark. When i take a closer look at the LCD, i still see the image but the backlight is dead because of the inverter board which easy to repair. You should check your CMU200 by using a flashlight on the LCD, hope your unit have a same problem :)
 
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Offline cio74

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2016, 03:03:53 pm »
Does anyone tried to use the spectrum below 10Mhz? Or/and power meter?
 

Offline ZL1CVD

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2016, 01:14:15 am »
Minimum spec analyzer is 10.000005 MHz. I updated to latest 5.21 firmware and there was no change to this.

For power you set frequency and bandwidth (1MHz to 10Hz) and it displays it on graph in RF Power screen.


 

 

Offline richnormand

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2016, 03:21:45 am »

Hi richnormand,
When i received my CMU200, the unit was totally dead, there was no LED light up when i plug in the power. Also i have another unit that does power on but the screen is dark. When i take a closer look at the LCD, i still see the image but the backlight is dead because of the inverter board which easy to repair. You should check your CMU200 by using a flashlight on the LCD, hope your unit have a same problem :)

Thanks for the clarification hoangviet.

In my case the amber/yellow light for standby does work. When I press the button it goes green. However there is no power out of the power supply at all. All the lines, except the standby 12V, are dead. So I have to conclude that my problem is in the PSU and was different than yours. There are more detail in the "repair" section of the forum.

Best of luck fixing the second unit back-light inverter.
 

Offline cio74

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2016, 02:22:34 pm »
Minimum spec analyzer is 10.000005 MHz. I updated to latest 5.21 firmware and there was no change to this.

For power you set frequency and bandwidth (1MHz to 10Hz) and it displays it on graph in RF Power screen.

Thanks, how much have you paid for yours? There are a couple on Ebay but I find the figure a little too high considering it does not cover below 10MHz (something that I need as a ham radio enthusiast).
 

Offline ZL1CVD

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2016, 02:42:34 pm »
I'm using mine for ham radio too. US$450 for CMU200 which has B95 (2nd RF gen). US$500 for CRTU-RU which was loaded B17 I/Q, 2x RF TX/RX, Etc. The CRTU-RU has no audio gen/analyzer. BTW the standard RF generator goes from 100KHz to 2.7GHz in these. The Spec analyzer is 10MHz to 2.7GHz.

I had an HP 8924 & Agilent E8285A. These R&S units are handy but do lack compared with these. Its mainly in the user interface and I think it is worth hacking around with that. In the mean time, there is 'some' usability there. If you want out of the box good old fashioned user interface that does analogue radio, get an 8924, E8285 or 8935. Unfortunately they are old and limited frequency wise but they do old fashioned radio really really well. The analogue duplex screen on these HP's is the 1st thing I want to try and emulate with the R&S's. 
 

Offline msraya

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2016, 06:15:31 pm »
Hello!

Frequency is not big deal.. Because you can use a coaxial mixer and have SA from 0 Mhz to 6 Ghz.. no problem...

The problem with the unit is that it needs calibration and that the sensibility and noise floor is not very good but sufficient...

This is not a clasic test set... but I think it is more for design and development than repair.. My Stabilock 4032 is more easy to work with and to make quick tests for repair...

I get mine for 900 euros with old mainboard, B17, B41 and B95. Not cheap but in good working condition.

Manuel
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 06:25:54 pm by msraya »
 

Offline cio74

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2016, 06:39:43 pm »
They look interesting, just not a lot of them available at the moment or I don't now where to look for them?
 

Offline Astrodev

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2016, 01:31:10 am »
I know what you mean about 5 months ago there were quite a few around, if a bit pricey but they seem to have disappeared, it was just before this that I got my CMU200 and then when I got the chance of a number of CRTU's about a month latter I managed to get hold of 4 of these from an R&D lab that was closing down. But now even the CRTU's seem to be getting scarce.

As far as I understand there was a large number of CMU200's and CRTU's coming out of quite a few of the mobile phone manufacturers as they were not capable of handling the newer standards above 3G and so were no longer required, but I have also seen a large number of the CMW500's coming through which are still a current product as well as a lot of LTE gear from the likes of Anritsu.

So who knows what may start filtering through over the next year as the requirements evolve, it may well allow access to the sort of gear most of us could only dream of in the past at a price level the amateur can afford.
 

Offline msraya

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2016, 11:52:26 am »
Hello All!!

I installed Windows 2000 on the unit, what a deception!!... It is so slow... I think it will not servers any purpose...
My LinkSys CF wifi 802.11b with CF adaptor doesn't work, I test 3 or 4 different drivers with no luck..
So no Windows2000 for me..  :scared:

However the DOS software v5.10 works well in my new Hard Disk: 8GB CF Card with adaptor.  :-+

So... I measure the phase noise performance of the set with my 10 MHz Rubidium Frequency Standard, a EFRATOM LPRO-101 Unit that is very nice, and has low phase noise.  I also build a simple ADE-1 Mixer to test if the unit can do Spectrum analysis from 0 MHz, with the internal generator and 1Ghz OL, and it work, of course... Although the ADE-1 is for no more than 500MHz, it works at 1GHz... outside of specs..  :-//

I put 7dBm @ 1GHz from the RF2 OUTPUT into the OL input of the mixer, a 30dB pad from the +10dBm EFRATOM source to the input IF of the mixer. And in the output (RF) of the mixer I connect directly to the CMU200 input. The spectrum is clean.

The trending on phase noise in my lab, from the poorer to the better:

RIGOL DSA-815 TG:   At 1Khz   -56dBc  @ 100Hz BW  (What a dissaster!!  :palm:)
TEKTRONIX 492BP:    At 1Khz   -69.6dBc @ 100Hz BW
RHODE & SCHWARZ   At 1Khz   With Mixer AD-1:  -72.5dBc  @ 100Hz BW
STABILOCK 4032:      At 1Khz   -76.2dBc @ 100Hz BW
RHODE & SCHWARZ   At 1Khz   -76.6dBc @ 100Hz BW

Manuel
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 11:57:19 am by msraya »
 

Offline ZL1CVD

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2016, 02:53:07 pm »
Well Win2K on the CRTU works OK - not too slow. Would be better with SSD. But as others already mentioned, it does not play well when DOS firmware is not the same revision. Get lots of errors and most R&S apps refuse to work. Nothing really in Win2K worth having anyway - maybe the B17 IQ switching but you can get access to that in the latest DOS version I think...
 

Offline Astrodev

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2016, 02:55:05 pm »
But this is where the CRTU has advantages over the CMU200 as it already runs Windows 2000 and since most of the base functionality is the same unless you need the additional features that can be found on some of the CMU's (but this does depend on finding the right one) it may be a better alternative.

I suppose as they are fundamentally the same hardware platform the decision over which to use is really dependant on the hardware and license options present on the specific units that are available on the 2nd hand market.

My approach to running the CMU200 was to pick up a CMW-CU which is essentially a PC with built in GPIB and designed to keep RF interference to a minimum as it is specifically for use in an RF test environment and although it is for use with the CMW500 is works well with the CMU200 and the CRTU.
 


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