Rohde & Schwarz FSEA 30

[Muxr]

There is no thread for this Spectrum Analyser, so instead of derailing other generic SA threads I figure I start a dedicated one. Got mine a few weeks ago, and I have been pretty impressed with it so far. It's a sizeable beast, pretty heavy too.





I am currently in the process of rejuvenating it. Getting to the main PC board is no small task. It involves a number of steps and hard to reach cable jacks. You have to remove the power supply, loosen the bottom rail locking system, so that you can remove one of the RF cards to give you enough room to unplug the power supply. Then it's simply a matter of removing the metal shielding at the back of the instruments where PC boards are located.

This is what the PC board looks like:



Turns out I didn't have an IDE disk enclosure (could have swore I had one) or I can't find it so currently waiting on it to backup the disk and install the CF flash card replacement. I also have some SDRAM so I might upgrade that while I am at it as well. Will also be replacing the battery. Will update my progress..

[Wuerstchenhund]

Very nice instrument!  Thanks for posting this

You know that you are now officially owner of one of the best SAs ever made? 

Yours' is a later variant of the FSEx, recognizable on the front panel (older generations have a red-ish front, later ones the blue-ish grey). From the photos it seems you got a nice clean unit in good condition, and even the display seems to be bright.

Going for a CF Card replacement for the HDD is a good idea. If you feel adventurous you could replace the floppy drive with a CF reader so you have the card externally accessible. Which would also give you room to play with different OS setups (Windows NT 4 was an option which if I remember right included more measurements and was the OS required for the latest software update).

When you re-assemble it, could you take a few more pictures of the boards and the inside of the SA?

BTW: you might wanna re-check the thread title 

[Muxr]

@Wuerstchenhund thanks! Will be posting more photos as I progress with it. As for the title, I was concentrating so hard on spelling R&S that I messed up the model   

[Wuerstchenhund]

As for the title, I was concentrating so hard on spelling R&S that I messed up the model   

I thought at first this was about a R&S FSA 

[nctnico]

May I suggest an mSata to IDE adapter for even better performance?
I know I bought a very nice SA myself recently but I must say I really like the FSEA and would have bought one if it had come up for a price within my budget (where is the drool emoticon?).

[Muxr]

May I suggest an mSata to IDE adapter for even better performance?
I know I bought a very nice SA myself recently but I must say I really like the FSEA and would have bought one if it had come up for a price within my budget (where is the drool emoticon?).

Might do the mSata -> IDE, we will see if it's compatible, that was my original idea. I picked up the CF adapter as well in case I run into issues.. (I have CF cards from my cameras). They are pretty quick too: 160MB/s. Will see which one is more compatible, I can benchmark them too.

I looked at PATA SSDs as well but I wasn't happy with the specs and the no name brands available.

I've been on the lookout for an SA for over a year, and when this one popped up I had to have it. Your Advantest R3477 is really nice too.. I would have had no qualms getting it if I ran into the same deal you got.

[nctnico]

The disadvantage of compact flash cards is that most tell the system they are removable media. Over the past years I did several IDE to CF conversions but I was unable to use a CF card in my Tektronix TLA715 logic analyser. However an mSata to 44 pin IDE adapter (for a few dollars from Ebay) and an mSata card (bought locally!) did the trick.

[Muxr]

The disadvantage of compact flash cards is that most tell the system they are removable media. Over the past years I did several IDE to CF conversions but I was unable to use a CF card in my Tektronix TLA715 logic analyser. However an mSata to 44 pin IDE adapter (for a few dollars from Ebay) and an mSata card (bought locally!) did the trick.

Yup, that was my fear too.. after some research I found this Syba that could work, according to this review it presents the CF card as a fixed media so it might work: https://www.amazon.com/review/R1VL7K96HDXOPG/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0036DDXUM&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=172282&store=electronics

Will let you know.

[Wuerstchenhund]

The disadvantage of compact flash cards is that most tell the system they are removable media. Over the past years I did several IDE to CF conversions but I was unable to use a CF card in my Tektronix TLA715 logic analyser. However an mSata to 44 pin IDE adapter (for a few dollars from Ebay) and an mSata card (bought locally!) did the trick.

That is mostly true for consumer cards (i.e. the ones used for photography) which don't support True IDE mode. Industrial cards usually do.

But a CF card identifying itself as a removable media device isn't much of a problem for DOS/Windows 3.11 or WindowsNT 4 anyways, as these platforms don't really support removable media other than floppies and tape.

I looked at PATA SSDs as well but I wasn't happy with the specs and the no name brands available.

Yeah, Kingspec is crap. But Transcend PSD330 is a solid PATA SSD, fast, and not overly expensive.

The problem with mSATA SSDs is that they generally tend do rely on a modern OS with TRIM support and don't do a lot GC on their own, which is what you want for a non-SSD aware OS.

[nctnico]

In case of the TLA715 it was the BIOS causing problems. It just wouldn't boot from a removable media.

[Muxr]

The IDE adapter arrived today. Backup and restore was a piece of cake. I used ddrescue (on OS X) but I assume procedure is similar on other OSs as well.





I have also upgraded the RAM.. put it together, it booted without issues:



The speed difference isn't that noticeable, which is understandable, there is much more to the boot sequence than loading the OS of the disk, like onboarding all the component boards. The original disk was 4.87 GB but the Raw files on the disk only take 67 megabytes. The entire disk image compressed is only about 20 MB.

However I am glad I did the upgrade since I didn't like the sound and whine the original hard drive was making. And at the very least I now I have a backup.

Waiting on the replacement battery to arrive to continue this little project.

[Muxr]

Battery has arrived.. time to take the PC board out again. Bottom of the instrument:

[Muxr]

The original battery I ordered couldn't be soldered onto. I know that usually the batteries are difficult to solder on.. but I've had good luck with some by sanding the battery contacts down a bit and using ample amounts of flux. Not this time though.. I've tried 3 different kinds of flux with no luck. So I had to wait on a battery with welded leads.

Corrosion on the original battery:


The new battery:




edit: I've also added a floppy -> USB conversion drive.

[Wuerstchenhund]

The original battery I ordered couldn't be soldered onto. I know that usually the batteries are difficult to solder on.. but I've had good luck with some by sanding the battery contacts down a bit and using ample amounts of flux. Not this time though.. I've tried 3 different kinds of flux with no luck. So I had to wait on a battery with welded leads.

Why didn't you go for a battery holder instead? You could then place it somewhere where it is easier to reach.

[Muxr]

The original battery I ordered couldn't be soldered onto. I know that usually the batteries are difficult to solder on.. but I've had good luck with some by sanding the battery contacts down a bit and using ample amounts of flux. Not this time though.. I've tried 3 different kinds of flux with no luck. So I had to wait on a battery with welded leads.

Why didn't you go for a battery holder instead? You could then place it somewhere where it is easier to reach.

I thought about it. It's pretty involved just getting to the board, once you get to the board it's easy, sliding it out and soldering this on. If I can get another 10-15 years out of this battery I'll be happy. Not keeping time isn't a huge handicap, I was more worried about a leaking old battery.

[CJay]

Same battery as used on countless generations of Macs and Power Macs, I think I even have a few along with the holders.

Thank you for posting this teardown, really nice to see all the high end test gear torn apart, for some strange reason people are somewhat reluctant to let me tear down their lab gear

[kazam]

Hi,

Great thread and with perfect timing! Just took delivery of my R&S FSIQ3 with TG. It runs NT4 and came with the latest firmware, 4.40.3 installed.

I need to fix a few issues before I start using mine on a daily basis:

1. I will get the Transcend PATA SSD, any need to stick with the SLC models or is MLC just fine?
2. Where can I source that battery with the solder flaps?
3. Noise is a bit too much, any better fans out there?
4. What kind if memory does it take and is it worthwhile to upgrade?
5. It has a really non-standard looking connector for ethernet. Worth using? I have a GPIB adapter so I plan to just use that for now. Kind if prefer ethernet though, less problems.
6. Where can I get one of those USB floppy adaptor/converters?
7. My display is a bit dim, can I get a new one or upgrade the CCFL backlighting on the one already in there?

Thanks!

[Muxr]

Hi,

Great thread and with perfect timing! Just took delivery of my R&S FSIQ3 with TG. It runs NT4 and came with the latest firmware, 4.40.3 installed.

I need to fix a few issues before I start using mine on a daily basis:

1. I will get the Transcend PATA SSD, any need to stick with the SLC models or is MLC just fine?
2. Where can I source that battery with the solder flaps?
3. Noise is a bit too much, any better fans out there?
4. What kind if memory does it take and is it worthwhile to upgrade?
5. It has a really non-standard looking connector for ethernet. Worth using? I have a GPIB adapter so I plan to just use that for now. Kind if prefer ethernet though, less problems.
6. Where can I get one of those USB floppy adaptor/converters?
7. My display is a bit dim, can I get a new one or upgrade the CCFL backlighting on the one already in there?

Thanks!

1.) I don't think it will make much difference, or at least it didn't on my model (non Windows NT version). The boot is heavily dependant on onlining all the "transputer" boards and the actual SSD upgrade shaves off very little from the boot process. I would pick whatever gives you the highest reliability confidence. SanDisk has had good track record with me so I just used the CF solution. This is the enclosure I used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036DDXUM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

caveat: the enclosure has that extra middle pin that won't fit into the cable.. I just cut mine off.

2.) This is the battery I used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0060ASQDC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  notice the welded leads are of different style than in the product picture, but you can just bend them and spin them a bit and they fit perfectly. Just cut off the excess lead.

3.) Just air blowing my fans reduced the noise significantly. I was initially going to replace some of the fans.. but the noise is really not bad at all.

4.) Memory I used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006BT1Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  standard 144 pin SoDIMM Only one of the slots were populated on my board. I got two and it's fully upgraded. 1Gb of RAM total. Didn't notice any difference in performance, so you might skip this step.

5.) I have the same ethernet card, it looks like the 10BASE2 which is obsolete. Might be possible to upgrade to a current ethernet card, but I haven't looked into that yet.

6.) USB floppy conversion drives can be ordered on ebay usually.. they are very clunky to use. I did mine just for the looks, although I did test it with a thumb drive and it does work.. although took a bit of figuring out.

Not sure about the screen, mine looks ok, but I would be curious as to what you find out.. keep us posted! And welcome to the RS SA club!

[richpike]

Nice piece of gear!  And your photos are excellent - can I be nosy and ask what camera/lens you are using?

[Muxr]

Nice piece of gear!  And your photos are excellent - can I be nosy and ask what camera/lens you are using?

Thank you.. not at all.. I am a bit of a photography nut, thanks for noticing.

Most were shot with the Olympus e-m5 and the Olympus 25mm f/1.8 lens (love this lens, optically it is excellent and it has a very short focusing distance, so it can double up as a close up macro sort of lens). That battery close up was with the Olympus 60mm 2.8 Macro lens. And that last photo (showing the floppy -> USB conversion drive) was shot with my D600 and an old Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 lens.

[Wuerstchenhund]

1. I will get the Transcend PATA SSD, any need to stick with the SLC models or is MLC just fine?

MLC is fine. It will very likely outlive the instrument.

5. It has a really non-standard looking connector for ethernet.

It's not "non-standard", that's probably just an AUI connector (AUI is the interface between the network controller and the physical interface), what you need is a transceiver for the network standard you want (Thin Ethernet, Thick Ethernet, TP, Fiber).

Back then you could choose if you wanted AUI, Thin Ethernet (BNC) or TP (RJ45) as port.

[nctnico]

You can find these transceivers on Ebay for peanuts. RJ45 is probably the best choice.

[psysc0rpi0n]

The original battery I ordered couldn't be soldered onto. I know that usually the batteries are difficult to solder on.. but I've had good luck with some by sanding the battery contacts down a bit and using ample amounts of flux. Not this time though.. I've tried 3 different kinds of flux with no luck. So I had to wait on a battery with welded leads.

Corrosion on the original battery:
...<removed to shorten the post>

The new battery:
...<removed to shorten the post>

...<removed to shorten the post>

edit: I've also added a floppy -> USB conversion drive.

...

Hi...

Recently I watched a couple of videos about welding batteries...
Wouldn't this be of any usage:

[kazam]

You can find these transceivers on Ebay for peanuts. RJ45 is probably the best choice.

Reading the manual I came to the conclusion that the ethernet interface is only for file transfer and printing more or less. SCPI is not supported over TCP/IP.

In that case I don't really need ethernet at all so not worth to pursue. I have the dual GPIB interface option as well but apparently the second interface is for controlling external instruments from the SA. Not really useful for me.

[Wuerstchenhund]

You can find these transceivers on Ebay for peanuts. RJ45 is probably the best choice.

Reading the manual I came to the conclusion that the ethernet interface is only for file transfer and printing more or less. SCPI is not supported over TCP/IP.

Don't rely too much on the manual (especially if you have an older version), R&S often introduced new features in subsequent software updates which also resulted in a new revision of manuals.

My memory is to dizzy when it comes to those old SAs but I'd get the last software update for your instrument and check the revision history, you might well find that SCPI over TCP/IP has been implemented later on.

I have the dual GPIB interface option as well but apparently the second interface is for controlling external instruments from the SA. Not really useful for me.

The 2nd GPIB is a host port and, as you said, for controlling external instruments. Like for example using an external RF generator as tracking generator. Newer R&S SAs could also use non-R&S generators (like the HP/Agilent ESG Series) but I'm not sure if that was the case for the FSEx.