... some even run at about 1100v and I would need a capable probe as well.The inputs on the HMO1202 are rated for 100V max, which isn't a lot.
Will the R&S be good enough for me compared to the technical specs of the Rigol models and is it worth the premium price?
Hello,Also take a look at the scopes from GW Instek. A less well known brand from Taiwan but their GDS2000E and GDS1000B series have long memory, fastest & longest FFT compared to any scope in the low end segment, a bigger screen than the HMO1202, individual channel controls, 4 channel models and very few issues. One of the things the GW Instek scopes can do is show up to 10 FFT peaks in a list; I guess that would be easy when adjusting an amplifier to give minimal distortion.
I am about to buy my first oscilloscope, altough I have worked with analog scopes in college some years ago, digital scopes are new to me.
After looking at videos from Dave reviewing various scopes like Rigol, Siglent and Rohde & Schwarz I think the R&S is a very solid unit.
Digital scopes are ok for ripple but not useful at noise measurements in audio range apps . Vertical resulation is a problem in audio.
I want a FULL HD screened (needed to display big portion of hi vertical res. signals , Zoom capability also)1 mhz 16 bit spesific standalone audio scope but noone produces.
The inputs on the HMO1202 are rated for 100V max, which isn't a lot.
I'd get a fixed 100x probe for looking at high voltages.
In fact: I'd get a fixed x10 probe for general work as well. They're cheap enough and you can't accidentally switch them to 1x mode.
Also take a look at the scopes from GW Instek. A less well known brand from Taiwan but their GDS2000E and GDS1000B series have long memory, fastest & longest FFT compared to any scope in the low end segment, a bigger screen than the HMO1202, individual channel controls, 4 channel models and very few issues. One of the things the GW Instek scopes can do is show up to 10 FFT peaks in a list; I guess that would be easy when adjusting an amplifier to give minimal distortion.
Don't stare yourself blind on waveforms/s. Anything over 1000 will be good to work with. For measuring high voltages you'll need 100:1 or even 1000:1 probes with the right ratings. A signal generator doesn't need to be expensive either and I would prefer to have one externally because it is be easier to control.
The inputs on the HMO1202 are rated for 100V max, which isn't a lot.
The datasheet mentions its inputs are 200v at 1Meg or 5v at 50Ohm
I wonder if scopes do have some overvoltage protection?
The HMO1202 comes with 2 RT-ZP03 probes which are switchable 1-10x which I think will be good enough for most workIt's not that switchable probes can't do the job, it's that they're too easy to switch to 1x. I'd be unhappy using them if I was regularly poking around high voltages.
i'm going to order a HZ53 probe as well which is 100x (1200v max)
If it could safely handle 250V you can bet they'd write "250V" on the front.
1200V max seems a bit close to the metal if you know for a fact you're going to work with 1100V.
(only 9% margin)
The problem is that the DMM might not be showing a true reading. There might be tiny 2000V spikes that the DMM isn't seeing (you know the device under test is defective...)1200V max seems a bit close to the metal if you know for a fact you're going to work with 1100V.
(only 9% margin)
Its not i'm going to do this regularly, right now I have a single ended 845 triode amplifier that has a 3mV hum at the output and I want to track it down and hopefully solve it. (with the test equipment :-DMM I got now i'm stuck)
The highest voltage I measured with my 1000v multimeter was 1080vdc :bullshit: when probing unknown voltages I will use my multimeter first and hopefully it will be fine with the 1200v probe.
The problem is that the DMM might not be showing a true reading. There might be tiny 2000V spikes that the DMM isn't seeing (you know the device under test is defective...)
If you're looking at power supplies and amplifier outputs then another (much cheaper!) option is to build a big-ass 10x resistor divider and use it with your 10x probe.
Use large, high power resistors (large ones are harder for sparks to jump across). Put multiple resistors in series in case one fails, etc. For $2.50 you can really go to town... :popcorn:
Making my own voltage divider is something to look into but need to work this out a bit more, putting a bunch of resistors in series with some caps in parallel can create a whole lot of side effects.
With a capture rate of 10.000 wfms/s the R&S will be fine then, I will take a look into the GW Instek.Either way a wider display will show more information whether it has 10, 12 or 14 divisions. The only difference is how the signal is being scaled horizontally.
I noticed the R&S has the smallest display but it actually does show 10 time divisions or 12 without menu, the GW Instek GDS1000B has a larger display but only shows up to 10 divisions and the Rigol DS1054Z 12 divisions.
Right now I do not own a signal generator when buying the R&S I will see how this will work out for me using the built in generator I could later buy a dedicated signal generator if I need more convenience.I'd be carefull and check whether the function generator costs extra on th R&S; it usually does and the options on the R&S scopes are expensive as well. The base unit is often cheap but with some extra options (function generator, logic inputs, protocol decoding) the price adds up quickly. If you want a simple but digitally controlled generator then the ones from Feeltech offer best value for your money by far.
I'd be carefull and check whether the function generator costs extra on th R&S; it usually does and the options on the R&S scopes are expensive as well. The base unit is often cheap but with some extra options (function generator, logic inputs, protocol decoding) the price adds up quickly. If you want a simple but digitally controlled generator then the ones from Feeltech offer best value for your money by far.
I'd be carefull and check whether the function generator costs extra on th R&S; it usually does and the options on the R&S scopes are expensive as well. The base unit is often cheap but with some extra options (function generator, logic inputs, protocol decoding) the price adds up quickly. If you want a simple but digitally controlled generator then the ones from Feeltech offer best value for your money by far.
Hopefully R&S is not playing tricks here
HMO1202 probably has some good low-noise ADCs. Zhis might be useful for audio work.
They've gone one step further and not mentioned a measurement category:Yep, you're right. It's 200V. Memory fails me.The inputs on the HMO1202 are rated for 100V max, which isn't a lot.The datasheet mentions its inputs are 200v at 1Meg or 5v at 50OhmI wonder if scopes do have some overvoltage protection?If it could safely handle 250V you can bet they'd write "250V" on the front.
I personally do not like shared vertical controls of HMO1202. Buy it if you need a small scope. I find the front panel a bit confusing. HMO1202 probably has some good low-noise ADCs. This might be useful for audio work.
They've gone one step further and not mentioned a measurement category:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_category (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_category)
"Robust" scopes like the new Tek TBS2000 have an input of 300V in CAT II and will safely withstand several thousand volts at the input, damage will occur somewhere between the maximum input and that point. Sometimes specified as maximum survivable or nondestructive voltage and not always available in data sheets but can be quite a bit higher than the maximum input range (which is typically the range over which the device reports accurate measurements).
Toploser is selling a HMO2022 very cheap. This might be a good deal? He is a trusted seller
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-(uk)-hameg-rs-hmo2022-2-channel-200mhz-scope-mso-ready/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-(uk)-hameg-rs-hmo2022-2-channel-200mhz-scope-mso-ready/)
Perhaps but the 200MHz HMO2022 not selling at less than half price for over a month should tell you something about these Hameg (R&S) scopes! Toploser is a well respected seller on this forum so that is definitely not the problem.
Perhaps but the 200MHz HMO2022 not selling at less than half price for over a month should tell you something about these Hameg (R&S) scopes!
This is the problem, you don't know what level of protection is provided for overvoltage or what amount of overvoltage may damage the scope. Stick to their 200V peak under all circumstances considering that what you are measuring will have spikes etc.They've gone one step further and not mentioned a measurement category:The R&S datasheet does not state the safety category of the inputs or probe, the appliance itself is CAT II just like any other household appliance is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_category (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_category)
"Robust" scopes like the new Tek TBS2000 have an input of 300V in CAT II and will safely withstand several thousand volts at the input, damage will occur somewhere between the maximum input and that point. Sometimes specified as maximum survivable or nondestructive voltage and not always available in data sheets but can be quite a bit higher than the maximum input range (which is typically the range over which the device reports accurate measurements).
"Robust" scopes like the new Tek TBS2000 have an input of 300V in CAT II and will safely withstand several thousand volts at the input, damage will occur somewhere between the maximum input and that point. Sometimes specified as maximum survivable or nondestructive voltage and not always available in data sheets but can be quite a bit higher than the maximum input range (which is typically the range over which the device reports accurate measurements).
If it could safely handle 250V you can bet they'd write "250V" on the front.
Lets hope so, I would not want to test this myself!1200V max seems a bit close to the metal if you know for a fact you're going to work with 1100V.
(only 9% margin)
Its not i'm going to do this regularly, right now I have a single ended 845 triode amplifier that has a 3mV hum at the output and I want to track it down and hopefully solve it. (with the test equipment :-DMM I got now i'm stuck)
The highest voltage I measured with my 1000v multimeter was 1080vdc :bullshit: when probing unknown voltages I will use my multimeter first and hopefully it will be fine with the 1200v probe.
Most tube amplifiers I played with run at about 450/500vdc
Maybe differential probes would be a better option with that voltage?
Perhaps but the 200MHz HMO2022 not selling at less than half price for over a month should tell you something about these Hameg (R&S) scopes! Toploser is a well respected seller on this forum so that is definitely not the problem.
The HMO2022 is a model from about 2011, its a opened box so this could lower the price of this unit.
But it do makes me wonder why it is not sold yet.
I have some open box Keysight MSOX3054 scopes with probes and warranty that probably won't sell on here even if I listed them at 60% off list price. that's just the way it is, no refection on the quality of the equipment, it's the buyers that are the troublesome part of the equation!
Oh plus some open box Tek MDO3054 scopes with probes and warranty, I forgot about those for a minute.
And those can easily be hacked for the extra features, not possible with the R&S scopes.
I'm still undecided between RS 2000 series or a keysight 2000 series one. It has always been my dream to get one of these, but I got discouraged about price, so I got an HP 54600B fully calibrated and working perfectly fine.
I'm still undecided between RS 2000 series or a keysight 2000 series one. It has always been my dream to get one of these, but I got discouraged about price, so I got an HP 54600B fully calibrated and working perfectly fine.
If you're still in the market Pm Toplooser about those MSOX3054s he's got. It'll be a stretch, but that is a tool that will last you for a -very- long time.
I'm still undecided between RS 2000 series or a keysight 2000 series one. It has always been my dream to get one of these, but I got discouraged about price, so I got an HP 54600B fully calibrated and working perfectly fine.
If you're still in the market Pm Toplooser about those MSOX3054s he's got. It'll be a stretch, but that is a tool that will last you for a -very- long time.
Or pickup a used DSOX3014A from ebay and then enable all of the options. Still not in the cheap realm but it is a lot of scope for the money.
I'm still undecided between RS 2000 series or a keysight 2000 series one. It has always been my dream to get one of these, but I got discouraged about price, so I got an HP 54600B fully calibrated and working perfectly fine.
If you're still in the market Pm Toplooser about those MSOX3054s he's got. It'll be a stretch, but that is a tool that will last you for a -very- long time.
Or pickup a used DSOX3014A from ebay and then enable all of the options. Still not in the cheap realm but it is a lot of scope for the money.
Not really, unless you manage to get one really cheap (which is rare). It's still a lot of money for a scope with paltry 4Mpts memory.
As a hobbyist I'd rather get a GW Instek GDS-2000E than any of the generally overpriced Keysights (although you never know, maybe TopLoser makes an unbeatable offer ;) ). For less than a DSOX2000 you get 10Mpts of memory and 1Mpts for FFT in a scope that, based on the reports here, seems to be very mature (doesn't suffer from all the bugs you'll find with Rigol or Siglent) and should do all the OP needs.
But both the Keysights give you the very useful 'very low low cost' 'optional' AFG and 8/16 digital channels - that MSO connector is lurking ready to be used. Not avaiable on the GW.
But both the Keysights give you the very useful 'very low low cost' 'optional' AFG and 8/16 digital channels - that MSO connector is lurking ready to be used. Not avaiable on the GW.
I also have MUCH more faith in the Keysight warranty. Stick with the Agilent unless you have a really good reason for needing something it doesn't offer.
And yes I sell them really cheap - the last couple of 2000 series ones have been remarkable value really.
Not 100% sure so maybe someone can confirm but wasn't the keysight msox2000 incapable of decoding on digital channels?That's correct - effectively its acquisition system (apart from the ADCs) is 1/2 a MSOX3000 series, so it has less memory, lower acquisition rate, only 8 digital channels, and serial decoding only for the analogue channels. It's a much lower priced unit so it seems a reasonable trade-off to me. I have an Intronic LogicPort for more demanding measurements (not used it much so far, TBH)
I don't approve oscilloscope-funcion gen combo... It's like having oranges and apples in the same basket... Once it breaks you have lost two instruments in one shot. Not to mention that how can you fully control the two whitout messing up with the interface?
Cool feature, but it wouldn't be of any use to me..What's the point into recording the signal to playback it via the generator? :-//
| Sine | frequency range: 0.1 Hz to 50 kHz |
| Square | frequency range: 0.1 Hz to 50 kHz rise time: <4 µs |
| Ramp | frequency range: 0,1 Hz bis 10 kHz duty cycle: 10% to 90% |
| Pulse | frequency range: 0.1 Hz to 10 kHz |
Exactly what I thought...Cool feature, but it wouldn't be of any use to me..What's the point into recording the signal to playback it via the generator? :-//
It can be useful for recording a 'real-life' signal with all interference and distortions and then take the recording back to the lab and play it back in an AWG to use it to check if the new piece of hardware you're developing will work with that real-life signal.
However, you don't need a built-in AWG to do that. Every better modern DSO can save the waveform data in csv format, which then can be fed to a suitable AWG for playback.
Every better modern DSO can save the waveform data in csv format, which then can be fed to a suitable AWG for playback.Exactly what I thought...
Actually that was exactly what I've tried to do, unfortunately my digitizing oscilloscope it's too old for that...
it's a HP54600B 2 channel 100Mhz, got it with RS232 option...Every better modern DSO can save the waveform data in csv format, which then can be fed to a suitable AWG for playback.Exactly what I thought...
Actually that was exactly what I've tried to do, unfortunately my digitizing oscilloscope it's too old for that...
What scope is that? It must be a really old boat anchor because the functionality to save waveform data has been in digital scopes since at least the early '90s.
it's a HP54600B 2 channel 100Mhz, got it with RS232 option...
Nah, used instruments are a good deal only if they are refurbished and calibrated, otherwise you need to calibrate them and most of the time is very difficult to do, and in most cases impossible to do if you don't have the right equipment (and knowledge)That is total nonsense! A-brand equipment keeps it's calibration quite well and if there needs to be something adjusted regulary (like signal path compensation in an oscilloscope) then it has self-adjustment procedures and hardware built in.
it's a HP54600B 2 channel 100Mhz, got it with RS232 option...
I see. You're right, these scopes lack the capability to save waveform data to a storage medium as they don't have any removable storage. But you can get the waveform data over RS232, although it'll be slooooooow ;)