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Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!

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TimNJ:
*I'm leaving this comment for Rich and the folks at R&S. I do not want to take over this thread, so please don't respond unless you think you really need to.*

Hi Rich,

This is not a comment about a specific product, but rather a general observation based on my observations/experiences. In fact, this is more of a comment directed at the old-school oscilloscope players (R&S, Tek, Keysight). I won't be offended if you don't respond!

First, I love the industrial design of R&S scopes. Few competitors make a scope as beautiful as an R&S. Equally as good is the design of the software interface. From the colors, to the controls, to the layout, it is obvious that the design was taken seriously. We have an R&S HMS-X spectrum analyzer at work, and it is truly a joy to use. We bought that SA because it had a special analysis option we needed. (The company I work for designs and manufactures switch-mode power supplies.)

The "problem" I see with R&S scopes (from the perspective of a company purchasing equipment) is that R&S scopes are a poor value on paper. For instance, when I was hired, the company got me a Siglent SDS-2104X. Most recently, we bought a Rigol DS-1104Z for a new engineer. We didn't even think to consider an R&S product (or Tektronix or Keysight for that matter).

Take the R&S RTC1000, for instance. It is a beautiful scope with good implementation of many features. But, it's way more expensive than competitor products with similar data sheet specs. It's incredibly hard for a company to justify that purchase. The company I work for used to be a loyal Tektronix company, but as soon as the cheap Chinese scopes came around, they immediately threw away that allegiance and sprung for the inexpensive offerings.

I referenced this idea in another thread I started..but (in my experience) it's really hard to sell people (and management) on non-quantifiable advantages like a good user interface.

RTC1000 is a good try at competing in the "general-purpose" scope market but I just don't see how R&S can expect to sell many of them. I think some of the other new R&S scopes are truly quite innovative and easier for people to justify the cost. But at the same time, when it's other people's money being spent, sometimes the "it's easier to use" factor is a hard sell.

LaurentR:

--- Quote from: sixtimesseven on June 13, 2018, 03:36:30 pm ---Rich, I found a new reference to option R&S RTB-K18 "spectrum analysis". Are new options coming  ;D?

--- End quote ---

Interesting catch. It showed up in the v05 of the manual (Jan 18) and is still there in the new v06. It is not mentioned anywhere else. Since it is only in the remote control commands section and doesn't have an actual user section, I can only assume it's a copy/paste mistake from the RTA/RTM manuals

That option is officially available in most R&S scopes, old and new, except for the RTB2000, as shown here:
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/sw_rtx-k18-productstartpage_63493-504512.html

Rich@RohdeScopesUSA:

--- Quote from: TimNJ on June 13, 2018, 03:55:08 pm ---*I'm leaving this comment for Rich and the folks at R&S. I do not want to take over this thread, so please don't respond unless you think you really need to.*

Hi Rich,

This is not a comment about a specific product, but rather a general observation based on my observations/experiences. In fact, this is more of a comment directed at the old-school oscilloscope players (R&S, Tek, Keysight). I won't be offended if you don't respond!

First, I love the industrial design of R&S scopes. Few competitors make a scope as beautiful as an R&S. Equally as good is the design of the software interface. From the colors, to the controls, to the layout, it is obvious that the design was taken seriously. We have an R&S HMS-X spectrum analyzer at work, and it is truly a joy to use. We bought that SA because it had a special analysis option we needed. (The company I work for designs and manufactures switch-mode power supplies.)

The "problem" I see with R&S scopes (from the perspective of a company purchasing equipment) is that R&S scopes are a poor value on paper. For instance, when I was hired, the company got me a Siglent SDS-2104X. Most recently, we bought a Rigol DS-1104Z for a new engineer. We didn't even think to consider an R&S product (or Tektronix or Keysight for that matter).

Take the R&S RTC1000, for instance. It is a beautiful scope with good implementation of many features. But, it's way more expensive than competitor products with similar data sheet specs. It's incredibly hard for a company to justify that purchase. The company I work for used to be a loyal Tektronix company, but as soon as the cheap Chinese scopes came around, they immediately threw away that allegiance and sprung for the inexpensive offerings.

I referenced this idea in another thread I started..but (in my experience) it's really hard to sell people (and management) on non-quantifiable advantages like a good user interface.

RTC1000 is a good try at competing in the "general-purpose" scope market but I just don't see how R&S can expect to sell many of them. I think some of the other new R&S scopes are truly quite innovative and easier for people to justify the cost. But at the same time, when it's other people's money being spent, sometimes the "it's easier to use" factor is a hard sell.

--- End quote ---
Hi TimNJ - thanks for the note.  I'm happy to respond with my own personal thoughts (not representing R&S).  And rest assured, TONS of R&S employees from R&D to marketing to sales read this blog, so your comments will be well heard.

First, thanks for the nice comments on our scopes.  As you can imagine they are the pride and joy of a lot of people at R&S, just like any project is for an engineer at any company.  One thing that I think is pretty cool about R&S versus some other companies is our designers get a LOT of leeway when working on their projects.  We're still very much an engineering-first culture, not driven by "bean counters".

Second - I think you are right, there are a lot of great scopes available today, whether it be from the old-school players or more recent entries.  I think every company will have different business plans - some will try to be cost leaders, others will take a differentiation strategy.  For us, I see us more in the differentiation path - the cool thing about this is it allows us to bring new and innovative capabilities to the market - things like 10-bit ADCs in (relatively) low cost scopes.  And what we'll see over time is there are some "fast followers" who will likely copy those innovations and bring them to market at much lower costs.  A win-win for consumers.  And still positive for us because we sell a lot of scopes during that time where we have the only option on the market (sort of why you all bought the HMS-X - it had something you needed and could only get from us).  The other benefit is if every player were a "cost leader" player, it would be great for a year or two - prices would be super cheap!  But innovation would dry up.  In the long run, IMHO it's a positive for a market to have both. 

-Rich

sixtimesseven:

--- Quote from: LaurentR on June 13, 2018, 05:30:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: sixtimesseven on June 13, 2018, 03:36:30 pm ---Rich, I found a new reference to option R&S RTB-K18 "spectrum analysis". Are new options coming  ;D?

--- End quote ---

Interesting catch. It showed up in the v05 of the manual (Jan 18) and is still there in the new v06. It is not mentioned anywhere else. Since it is only in the remote control commands section and doesn't have an actual user section, I can only assume it's a copy/paste mistake from the RTA/RTM manuals

That option is officially available in most R&S scopes, old and new, except for the RTB2000, as shown here:
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/sw_rtx-k18-productstartpage_63493-504512.html

--- End quote ---

The option is listed as RTB K-18 - The other scopes have all their own numbers, eg RTM K-18 ...
I think it would make a lot of sense for them to sell more features down the road. The appstore way ...

sixtimesseven:
Some more ideas:

1. Ability to measure the phase between the signal generator output and the analog inputs
2. Regarding the documentation, which is excellent otherwise - A changelog listing relevant changes in the firmware

And a question:
I'm trying to detect clipping and I'm reading the status register via: "STATus:QUEStionable:ADCState:CONDition?"
Unfortunately this returns always 0 indicating no clipping while the scope's clipping indication is on on all channels?
Works, just a stupid typo.

Thank you so much!

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