Rohde & Schwarz released a new series of VNA: The ZNA26/ZNA43

[TheUnnamedNewbie]

A few days ago, R&S announced their new top-of-the-line VNA series, the ZNA. Seems to replace their ZVA series, that went up to the same frequencies (46 GHz without external extenders, 500 GHz with external extenders). Features two screens (I think both touch, one being only for menu buttons from what I can tell).

Link: https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/zna-productstartpage_63493-551810.html
Really impressive sweep speed (<2 ms, for comparison, the top-of-the-line model from keysight has a best-case of 5.1 ms) and high dynamic range (130 dB typical, which iirc is on-par with the keysight one).

I wonder if it can do 4-port measurements with extenders, I believe the ZVA can only do this with a second very expensive signal generator.

[LapTop006]

Seems to replace their ZVA series, that went up to the same frequencies (46 GHz without external extenders, 500 GHz with external extenders).

 

For some reason the R&S site isn't loading well for me, datasheet from a reseller:
https://www.conrestestequipment.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/ConRes_ZNA_datasheet.pdf

[LukeW]

Having just dropped 5 figures on a nice new 6 GHz system... I don't even want to ask.

[CJay]

Of course it doesn't matter to me as I'll almost definitely never own one of these but ugh, touch screen instead of tactile buttons, yuck.

[TheUnnamedNewbie]

Of course it doesn't matter to me as I'll almost definitely never own one of these but ugh, touch screen instead of tactile buttons, yuck.

Yep, I have mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, I absolutely love the touch interface on the specans in the lab, and the keithley SMUs we have. makes for much more flexible use of space. But I don't know if I am quite willing to give up on proper buttons completly.

[CJay]

Of course it doesn't matter to me as I'll almost definitely never own one of these but ugh, touch screen instead of tactile buttons, yuck.

Yep, I have mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, I absolutely love the touch interface on the specans in the lab, and the keithley SMUs we have. makes for much more flexible use of space. But I don't know if I am quite willing to give up on proper buttons completly.

I like a touch screen, honestly do, but for a piece of test gear I far prefer proper buttons, I think a personal taste thing, I like to feel I've pressed a button, and also because I have to worry about being able to repair my own stuff as the only way I'll ever get one of those is sheer dumb luck in 20 years time when it's been hammered and abused or a large lottery win.

Of course R&S aren't concerned about the second hand market and why should they be but if this is the future for second hand test gear, it's not looking great, this sort of kit will become increasingly difficult to maintain as it goes out of support and the screens fail.

Pessimism aside, looks amazing and the spec, as usual with R&S, is fantastic.

[LapTop006]

Of course R&S aren't concerned about the second hand market and why should they be but if this is the future for second hand test gear, it's not looking great, this sort of kit will become increasingly difficult to maintain as it goes out of support and the screens fail.

Luckily screens have gotten fairly standard, although the small one might be something odd it should be easy to find something compatible for at least the next decade. The main one is almost certainly eDP and will be trivial for a very long time.

[CJay]

Of course R&S aren't concerned about the second hand market and why should they be but if this is the future for second hand test gear, it's not looking great, this sort of kit will become increasingly difficult to maintain as it goes out of support and the screens fail.

Luckily screens have gotten fairly standard, although the small one might be something odd it should be easy to find something compatible for at least the next decade. The main one is almost certainly eDP and will be trivial for a very long time.

That's kind of my point, ten years is not a long time for machines like the ZNA, in 20 years time when it gets to a level where a well heeled hobbyist could afford one it could well be near impossible to find a compatible screen.

I'd hope it's possible though, would hate to think something like that could be scrapped because a minor cost part just wasn't available any more.

I'm willing to bet that pushbutton switches will still be available in 30 years time though.

[LapTop006]

I'm willing to bet that pushbutton switches will still be available in 30 years time though.

Although inevitably not the ones that fit the footprint used, or more likely, it's a membrane panel, look at how much late-90s HP kit goes bad due to that.

[CJay]

I'm willing to bet that pushbutton switches will still be available in 30 years time though.

Although inevitably not the ones that fit the footprint used, or more likely, it's a membrane panel, look at how much late-90s HP kit goes bad due to that.

True and membrane panels are the work of a minor demon from a lesser circle of hell, the touchscreen panels are considerably more complex and I'd guess the one on that ZNA is 'context' sensitive, I.E. the 'buttons' change according to mode...

[TheUnnamedNewbie]

I have to be honest, the fact that these use standard display ports (DVI and displayport, both likely to be around for ages, and if not, adapters will still exist in 20 years precisely for legacy use) is good for me.

In our lab at work many don't ever touch the instrument. External displays and mouse+keyboard for everything at the probestation. So these things will work fine even if both screens are smashed up - I don't worry about that.

Of course, you and I are a different market I think - I look at this to be used within the year in my lab, but you are thinking far ahead (which is  no less valid). But keep in mind that it is the people who buy it now that fund R&S, and those people don't care that much about how repairable the thing will be in 20 years I think.

The thing I tend to worry about more is the OS - we now have most of our lab switched over to ethernet, but our old VNA isn't because it is still running XP and we don't trust it. I am not going to say 'they should have used linux' because that really would not solve the problem - linux also needs to be updated to be secure, and if the manufacturer doesn't support that you are in the same predicament. Yes, you can secure your network, but even then it only takes one person with a compromised USB to brick your expensive VNA.

[Mechatrommer]

That's kind of my point, ten years is not a long time for machines like the ZNA, in 20 years time when it gets to a level where a well heeled hobbyist could afford one it could well be near impossible to find a compatible screen.

i feel like you are talking about me, although my heel is probably just as good as yours. i recently acquired a 16 years old Lecroy SDA6000A scope, try find similar spec to that in new market today, we could have half of our lung broken, and thats just a scope. a VNA however is much much severe, the older models are still not within the reach, unless you want to gather pieces across universe at a span of time and assemble them at home, with hope there will be some service manual still downloadable or help from knowledgable knowing about the stuff forum members. but few points about that old scope:

1) i currently trying to replace the screen due to some defect, its minor and still perfectly usable, i just need some perfection if its just for small money, why not? i can keep it as spare part in case the new replacement LCD break in the next 20 years time. the touch panel on it is still in perfect condition. there are quite a number of options available in ebay, some look original and expensive, some are cheap no name brand. i bought and got the cheaper version of the lcd monitor, tested good but just to figure out the original working touch panel is stuck to the original defected monitor, so i have the cheaper touch panel ordered as well waiting for it to arrive. not much difficulty there.

2) there are few threads talking about upgrading older models to the latest HW and OS. so availability is not a problem as long as the technology still exist. obsolete technology such as CRT however, will make your point valid,on much much older models. but there are also threads talking about repairing those obsolete technology.

3) by coincidence, the LCD monitor used for the Lecroy scope is also compatible with much older Tektronix TLA714 LA, so its also applicable to other brand, that was once cutting edge, and technology still used today. moreover, i've added touch screen to the LA, something that wasnt speced during the production.

4) trying to make all Windows touch button of the Lecroy scope features into push buttons on the panel, i believe the panel will occupy a big chunk of your wall, there are so much buttons in Windows that needs conversion to real world push button. even if they managed to group them into logical order, i guess it will be several deep down the tree of push button menu. pressing buttons too many times can sometime unproductive.

5) if on urgent circumtances that the touch screen fails, while waiting for replacement part, we use the mouse connected through the back panel

I'm willing to bet that pushbutton switches will still be available in 30 years time though.

Although inevitably not the ones that fit the footprint used, or more likely, it's a membrane panel, look at how much late-90s HP kit goes bad due to that.

True and membrane panels are the work of a minor demon from a lesser circle of hell, the touchscreen panels are considerably more complex and I'd guess the one on that ZNA is 'context' sensitive, I.E. the 'buttons' change according to mode...

in contrary, i also got older Advantest SA, no touch screen. the lettering on the push buttons (i mean that plastics keys) are washed out. trying to get the same push buttons panels for the model is what we call impossible or unobtanium. unless we buy another SA with good condition push panel, but that can cost much more than the price i got my Advantest SA. if you put your bet on the no touch screen SA when it was produced, you are guaranteed to lose today.

i guess what you are asking is similar to China self made naked PCB with LCD and few push (mechanical) buttons on the side that sounds like a typewriter, thats sold many in ebay, including my ADF4355 RF generator. replacable yes, but if thats what you are asking, then our tools today will looks like the tools of the 60's, ymmv.

[CJay]

Of course, you and I are a different market I think - I look at this to be used within the year in my lab, but you are thinking far ahead (which is  no less valid). But keep in mind that it is the people who buy it now that fund R&S, and those people don't care that much about how repairable the thing will be in 20 years I think.

The thing I tend to worry about more is the OS - we now have most of our lab switched over to ethernet, but our old VNA isn't because it is still running XP and we don't trust it. I am not going to say 'they should have used linux' because that really would not solve the problem - linux also needs to be updated to be secure, and if the manufacturer doesn't support that you are in the same predicament. Yes, you can secure your network, but even then it only takes one person with a compromised USB to brick your expensive VNA.

We are in very different markets, I'm trailing behind and hoping for breadcrumbs

As for XP, airgapped network and there's a fairly simple registry change provided by Microsoft to disable the use of flash media devices which should negate some of those worries...

[Mechatrommer]

As for XP, airgapped network and there's a fairly simple registry change provided by Microsoft to disable the use of flash media devices which should negate some of those worries...

yup. otoh i grabbed the second Lecroy DDA5005 scope just recently (another neck breaking price when new and todays spec new) just because its alot cheaper than my first SDA6000 just because of unbootable disk defect. obviously, the original owner (an engineer i guess) down the chain to the surplus and ebay sellers dont know how to (or dont have time for?) recover unbootable disc, i feel blessed for this . at worst if intenet security is really a concern that somebody will grab a screenshot of our "Intellectual Properties" (and what is that?), then just disable the internet, the LAN WAN or whatever. no internet no connection no IoT = security. i for me, just dont care i may as well put a danggling dicky imageries in some easter egg folder for any intruders who want to dick around. if virus is a concern, we have AOMEI Backupper to backup the original install, highly recommended!

[Radiosonde]

I dont think 20 or even 40 Ghz VNA will be in a hobby range in the future, but nevertheless this sort of equipment will be almost unrepairable in a few years, just think on some Tek scopes wiith there infamous ASICs---it was a exception 10-20 years ago but it will be standard in 10 years...bad days for hobbyists incoming.
Just imagine buying a broken Desk DMM only to get a 6 layer FPGA/ASIC/Display board...it wont be as fixable as for example a 34401A.

Thats the point:
In the old day 20Mhz was the standard for scopes, now it is 50-100 Mhz but it wont be 1Ghz in 10 years...it will remain as a standard for a very long time.
The same with SAs --back then 1Ghz was entry class, now its 3 Ghz maybee because of all the Wireless stuff we have now, but a 26.5 Ghz analyzer is never going to be standard.

Regards