Author Topic: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review  (Read 4556 times)

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Offline Hugoneus

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You can watch the video here: [1 Hour & 2 Min]

youtu.be/YokF2_EbfIk

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Offline Fusion916

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 05:54:26 pm »
Hi Shahriar,

I have been a fan of your channel for years and enjoy these teardowns/reviews.

I haven't watched the entire video yet (only got to watch about 15 mins of it before I had to head to work) but I have to chuckle the several times you refer to this scope an "entry level" or "low end" scope. To me, "entry level" those are scopes priced less than $1000 (more like the $500-800 range). I personally would consider this solidly into the midrange level.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2017, 06:05:50 pm »
Well it doesn't have features you find in midrange scopes like 50 Ohm inputs and the firmware could use some TLC as well. The logic probe connectors are straight from amateur hour and I'm also not sold on the BNCs being soldered to the board without any mechanical suppport from the casing. That is just asking for problems down the road because the board (with ceramic capacitors and BGAs) will flex every time you connect/disconnect a probe.
All in all It has the signs of a being a cheap Hameg entry level scope. Personally I'm waiting to see what Keysight and/or Tektronix are coming up with next.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2017, 06:11:36 pm »
Hi Shahriar,

Thank you for the review.  Per usual, it was very thorough and educational.  We appreciate all the kind things you had to say about our RTB2000, as well as the feedback (rest assured, our designers and product managers/planners enjoy watching the reviews). 

A couple comments:
1.  A number of people have used anti-glare screen protectors.  I personally prefer it without the protector, but my office doesn't have significant overhead lighting.  I've ordered a few different options that people have recommended and will try them out so I can recommend something for people in the US to purchase if they'd like to put an anti-glare protector on.  I'll update everyone on my favorite.
2.  As a few other people have mentioned in the other thread, I believe the UART issue you saw is fixed in 2.0 firmware released last week.
3.  We'll be in touch on the RTO2000  :-+

-Rich
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2017, 06:14:08 pm »
Hi Shahriar,

I have been a fan of your channel for years and enjoy these teardowns/reviews.

I haven't watched the entire video yet (only got to watch about 15 mins of it before I had to head to work) but I have to chuckle the several times you refer to this scope an "entry level" or "low end" scope. To me, "entry level" those are scopes priced less than $1000 (more like the $500-800 range). I personally would consider this solidly into the midrange level.
Hi Fusion916 - I see your point on the "entry level" aspect, but I believe a common misconception is it starts at a higher price than it does (US$1,370). 

-Rich
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2017, 06:16:04 pm »
Well it doesn't have features you find in midrange scopes like 50 Ohm inputs and the firmware could use some TLC as well. The logic probe connectors are straight from amateur hour and I'm also not sold on the BNCs being soldered to the board without any mechanical suppport from the casing. That is just asking for problems down the road because the board (with ceramic capacitors and BGAs) will flex every time you connect/disconnect a probe.
All in all It has the signs of a being a cheap Hameg entry level scope. Personally I'm waiting to see what Keysight and/or Tektronix are coming up with next.
Hi nctnico - we really need to get you a unit to try out.  I think you'd be impressed and see that it is light-years beyond an "entry level" Hameg scope.  I'll talk with my counterpart in Europe.

-Rich
 

Online David Hess

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2017, 08:19:52 pm »
Switchable internal 50 ohm terminations are nice but their lack does not bother me much.  Feedthrough attenuators are acceptable to at least 200 MHz and usually 300 MHz.

I like having a standard 0.1" pin header for the logic inputs but only if the specifications are provided to directly interface to it and make third party probes.

I am dubious of the BNC mounting arrangement.  They should either be physically restrained by other than the printed circuit board or the printed circuit board should include strain reliefs.  This goes double when as shown in the video, the feet are designed to tilt the instrument back for ease of use which places more stress on the font panel connectors.  Tektronix is particularly bad about this with their huge TekVPI interface boxes.

It lacks differentiation and FFT phase results.  This is especially egregious since it includes a waveform generator.

The logic inputs do not support negative TTL or CMOS.  What was gained by limiting the negative threshold range to such a low value?

The glossy LCD with massive glare is completely unacceptable.  :(
 

Offline mairo

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2017, 08:24:35 pm »
... To me, "entry level" those are scopes priced less than $1000 (more like the $500-800 range). I personally would consider this solidly into the midrange level.

To me these are not even oscilloscopes, toys maybe, expensive toys. 
 
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Offline Fusion916

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2017, 09:25:07 pm »
... To me, "entry level" those are scopes priced less than $1000 (more like the $500-800 range). I personally would consider this solidly into the midrange level.

To me these are not even oscilloscopes, toys maybe, expensive toys.

I own a Keysight DSOX1102G, paid less than $1000 for it, definitely would not call it a toy. Entry level, but not a toy.
 
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Offline mtdoc

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2017, 10:09:15 pm »
The glossy LCD with massive glare is completely unacceptable.  :(

Silly.  Glare is only an issue if there is bright lights behind it.   If so, easily solved with an inexpensive screen protector film.  The screen is large and gives a beautiful display - better than any other test instrument I've seen.  I don't find the glare an issue at all in my lab, but decided to put a screen protector on it anyways just to protect it from scratches, etc.  I do the same with all my touch screens - phones, tablets, etc.  I'm finding the touchscreen interface much more useful than I imagined.  The ability to use a mouse or control it remotely via the very responsive web interface - which I do occasionally on my tablet - is also really nice and useful.
 

Online dr.diesel

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2017, 10:37:03 pm »
I also find the display perfect just the way it is, zero glare issues.

Offline Hydron

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2017, 10:44:51 pm »
I tried both with and without matte screen protector. The display looks _slightly_ sharper without the matte film on top, so without was my preference for a location where it doesn't get glare.

That said, I'd put the protector straight back on if I moved the scope somewhere with a glare issue - the difference in clarity is not major, and the touchscreen works just as well with the protector fitted. Given the simple solution I wouldn't factor it heavily into a purchase decision (the 10" 1280x800 screen is a REALLY nice upgrade compared to the standard 7" 800x480 stuff btw).
 

Offline Hugoneus

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 12:17:56 am »
Thank you all for your feedback!

Offline casinada

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 12:32:15 am »
Now you have to do an addendum with Firmware 2.0  :)  :-+
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 05:21:30 pm »
Well it doesn't have features you find in midrange scopes like 50 Ohm inputs and the firmware could use some TLC as well. The logic probe connectors are straight from amateur hour and I'm also not sold on the BNCs being soldered to the board without any mechanical suppport from the casing. That is just asking for problems down the road because the board (with ceramic capacitors and BGAs) will flex every time you connect/disconnect a probe.
All in all It has the signs of a being a cheap Hameg entry level scope. Personally I'm waiting to see what Keysight and/or Tektronix are coming up with next.
Hi nctnico - we really need to get you a unit to try out.  I think you'd be impressed and see that it is light-years beyond an "entry level" Hameg scope.  I'll talk with my counterpart in Europe.
It would be interesting to see how it holds up when tested to the extremes.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2017, 08:14:00 pm »
Well it doesn't have features you find in midrange scopes like 50 Ohm inputs and the firmware could use some TLC as well. The logic probe connectors are straight from amateur hour and I'm also not sold on the BNCs being soldered to the board without any mechanical suppport from the casing. That is just asking for problems down the road because the board (with ceramic capacitors and BGAs) will flex every time you connect/disconnect a probe.
All in all It has the signs of a being a cheap Hameg entry level scope. Personally I'm waiting to see what Keysight and/or Tektronix are coming up with next.
Hi nctnico - we really need to get you a unit to try out.  I think you'd be impressed and see that it is light-years beyond an "entry level" Hameg scope.  I'll talk with my counterpart in Europe.
It would be interesting to see how it holds up when tested to the extremes.
:-+ :-+
I'm actually going to be in Munich this next week, so I'll talk it over with the team and see what I can make happen!

-Rich
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2017, 08:44:38 pm »
Thank you all for your feedback!
Thank you for the in depth coverage of so much of the instrument, the balance of real world annoyances and (somewhat contrived) demonstrations of the features makes for a comprehensive review without it feeling like a marketing piece that just hits their desired points. Keep up the great work.
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2017, 09:45:43 pm »
As mentioned, I ordered a few anti-glare screen protectors to try out.  The first one I used worked great, was easy to apply and was the least expensive ($7.99 for three), so for those who can access Amazon, I'd recommend this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NAFNWVT/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I had to cut it down - just used a cutting board and it cut very easy.  The application was straight forward and I didn't have any issues.  It seemed to work great - no impact to the touch functionality, the screen was still sharp (although it did dim the display a touch as expected).  Since I don't need one on my RTB2000, I removed it (which it removed easily), but it could be an option for those that would prefer an anti-glare screen.

-Rich
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2017, 09:52:01 pm »
I also find the display perfect just the way it is, zero glare issues.
Did you sell your DS4014? How does it compare to this one?
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online dr.diesel

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2017, 05:59:19 pm »
Did you sell your DS4014? How does it compare to this one?

I still have it, but have not used it once since the R&S showed up.
 
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Online all_repair

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2017, 08:34:22 am »
Hi Shahriar,

Thank you for your new video.  I have just terminated all my Patreon donations.  The new fee structure does not make sense.  Let me know if you set up another way for your supporters.
 

Offline Lukas

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004 10-Bit, 2.5GS/s Mixed-Signal Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2017, 12:07:18 pm »
There's one thing that really bugs me with this scope's UI: The lack of instantaneous feedback when touching a button: When pressing a button/menu on my Android phone it immediately gets highlighted so I know it got my touch event. Even when the outcome action requested by this touch takes some time to become visible, the highlight confirms that I pressed the right button. I've had the chance to play with this scope at a trade show, the lack of instantaneous feedback was really off-putting and made the scope feel quite non-interactive.

Something few manufacturers seem to get when implementing touch interfaces: Users have (subconscious) expectations on how a touch interface has to react to their input. This includes things like immediate feedback, kinectic scrolling and so on. So if you're developing a touch interface, better make sure it behaves just like Android or so.
 


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