Author Topic: R&S RTC1002  (Read 3475 times)

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Offline nctnico

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2019, 07:52:55 pm »
The probability that R&S is using higher grade components in their gear is much higher than it is with the Chinese manufacturers who don't care as much about long term reliability.
That is pure speculation. You better back this up with some MTBF numbers.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2019, 07:58:19 pm »
There's a 90 year history of excellence to back it up. And you can't tell me the reason they build everything in house was to reduce manufacturing cost. Let's see a video tour like this of the Chinese factory's.

https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/vimperk_media/RS_Vimperk_MASTER-FullHD.mp4?w=800&h=600


They won't even provide a proper company history on their website let alone factory tour videos.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2019, 07:58:54 pm »
Nico has an rtm, I have an rtb, tautech... Sells siglents. All 3 of us have something in common though, we don't think it's necessarily better to pay more for a brand name rather than real tangible things. That's what we're trying to tell you. I'm sure we all have varying levels of respect for R&S but the RTC just doesn't register as a good entry level scope for the price unless it has something you need the other options don't.
 
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Online tautech

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2019, 08:02:28 pm »
If you could provide evidence that there's better quality gear available for less then that argument might carry some weight. But nobody has been able to provide this yet. Also what about component quality? Are the Chinese brands using AEC-Q200 grade MLCC's and resistors? There's loads of 30+ yr old R&S gear still in use and working fine. Can the same be said for Rigol and all the other Asian gear?
I'm very satisfied (and so are my customers) with the reliability and capability of the Asian brand I sell.
If I wasn't I'd have moved to another brand years ago.

I've owned and used a few A brand bits of older gear and there's no way I'd still want to be using 30 yr old equipment such are the features that new gear offers.

Quote
Based on the comments I'm hearing on this thread, it's beginning to seem that some folks may have vested interests in gear from other brands.

Some of us do and are happy to put our gear against all comers in the same class, especially to those that seem to be wearing blinkers.
Quote
My intention of starting this thread was to get feedback from other R&S owners. But it seems that instead I've attracted supporters of competitive gear.
Because specs don't lie and recent gear to the marketplace offers far better bang for buck.

I'm new to scopes altogether, but with my research over the last couple of days ...........
Days ?
Some of us have been into test gear for decades and you choose to ignore all the advice offered ?  :-//

Don't get me wrong, R&S is a perfectly reputable brand and yet they make design mistakes like any other.


Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2019, 08:03:07 pm »
Admitting you use a higher end R&S machine is fine. Because the higher end machines are not competing with the Chinese gear like the RTC1000 is. The "Sells Siglents" part explains the issue here. Thanks for clarifying.
 

Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2019, 08:04:46 pm »
Have the representatives from R&S been thread bombing the Chinese scope threads? Or is this only an issue when it comes to the Chinese scope reps?
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2019, 08:07:35 pm »
He likes to give his opinion and it's fine. If you stick around and don't like it you'll learn to tune him out. I do believe his opinion isn't just based on being a salesman though.
 

Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2019, 08:09:46 pm »
In my industry it's bad form to go on threads of competing products to trash them. I'm new around here so not sure if it's customary or not.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2019, 08:10:28 pm »
There's a 90 year history of excellence to back it up.
The past isn't a guarantee for the future. The mechanical engineering of the RTC1000 series from R&S is sub-standard IMO; not bolting the BNCs to the chassis is a hard failure in my book. After you have dropped a scope or seen the damage from dropping a scope (or other equipment) you'll understand why this is an important detail. Replacing a BNC or just bending it back into shape is better than damaging the circuit board. In the 70's or 80's I'm sure R&S would never allowed themselves to design something like that but times change. You can't just go by the brand name.

Cars are a good example. When I go out to buy a car I check the experiences of others with the model I'm interested in. What kind of problems does a particular model have and what does it cost to fix it? A brand name is no guarantee for good quality. I have driven Toyota and Mazda in the past but the newer model from Toyota had serious engine problems and the newer model from Mazda had rust issues. There goes 181 years of combined history of 'excellence' right out of the door due to cost savings. Much to my own surprise I ended up with a Ford after doing the math. What brand my next car will be? I don't know. Depends on researching the models available at that point.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 08:16:11 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2019, 08:15:08 pm »
Speaking of cars, the last time I went to the BMW dealer, for some strange reason they never sent me across the street to buy a Mercedes. It's strange how company reps prefer to sell their own gear over sending them off to competitors. I guess the same must apply to the scope business.
 

Online tautech

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2019, 08:16:22 pm »
In my industry it's bad form to go on threads of competing products to trash them.
Who's done that ?  :-//
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Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #61 on: September 18, 2019, 08:25:24 pm »
Why is it when I read this fellows post history, he's only discussing the gear he represents?


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=133086

More class? Doesn't see competitors gear as a threat? What could it be?
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #62 on: September 18, 2019, 08:48:30 pm »
Why is it when I read this fellows post history, he's only discussing the gear he represents?


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=133086

More class? Doesn't see competitors gear as a threat? What could it be?
Eek - don't bring me in to this  :-X   :-DD

Mivera - while I appreciate you are a fan of R&S (and thanks for buying an RTC1000!), I'd also encourage you to have an open mind to what the others in this thread are saying.  I think you'll be extremely happy with the RTC (most scopes in the low end over deliver for what people need), but like many things in life, there are sometimes more than one answer or solution to a problem.  For you, that is the RTC (great!), for others it might be a 1000X or a RTB2000 or a Siglent/Rigol/Uni-T/Hantek/Tektronix scope.  And that's great too.  Doesn't hurt to hear others opinions  :-+

-Rich
 
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Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2019, 08:53:08 pm »
Thanks for chiming in! I'm open to others opinions. However the only opinions I've heard about the RTC1002 in this thread has been it was a poor choice to purchase. And 80% of this feedback has been from folks who sell directly competing products. This wasn't the informative feedback I was seeking when starting this thread. I was already aware of all of the Chinese scopes and their capabilities before making this purchase. And I still feel I made a wise choice.
 

Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2019, 09:27:32 pm »
@Rich,

While you're here, do you have any idea of the noise floor I should expect from the RTC1002? My main purpose of buying this scope was to test low noise power supplies. I was reading this brochure on low noise tests:

https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/fr/general_37/local_webpages/RS_ScopeDay_March2017_Power_Integrity_measurements.pdf

Obviously I shouldn't expect to be able to get near the performance from the RTC as some of those pieces of gear. However is there an RTC compatible special probe that will allow me to measure lower noise supplies with the RTC?
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2019, 09:35:00 pm »
I think you're misunderstanding, or I am. I'm not telling you the RTC is a bad scope, I just think you could have got something similar for much less, or better for the same price. You seemed to make this thread asking people to tell you how it's the best entry level scope. I personally don't think for about $1000USD that it is, unless it has something you need you've only suggested measuring low level signals which no scope in that price bracket will be great for. For low level signals you likely want a low noise amplifier. Any special probe with it built-in is probably going to be very expensive.
 
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Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2019, 09:40:33 pm »
I still haven't heard any evidence that explains to me why I could have bought a scope just as good for less, or a better one for the same price for my purposes. Even if you're just going strictly off datasheet information. However when you're buying a product there's more to it than just datasheet information. And this other information mostly comes from hands on experience, combined with the historical quality reputation of the company. Yes if R&S sold out like many others and shifted the production of these low end units to China, that would be a red flag for quality. But the facts are they are built in the exact same factory as the high end units. Using the same equipment, by the same people.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #67 on: September 18, 2019, 09:53:39 pm »
If you want a scope made outside of China, Taiwan, or Malaysia then I think you definitely made the right choice and it may be the cheapest qualifier too.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2019, 09:55:23 pm »
It is you who must decide what scope you need. The RTC might be OK if you want a small scope.
I do not like the front panel now. I think that it is not very ergonomic. I grew up with Tektronix and Agilent.
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2019, 09:58:11 pm »
Well it's not just that. I still haven't found anything in the price range that is capable of providing me with better measurement data for my needs. In fact all of the competition goes out of their way to mislead folks into thinking the gear is capable of a true hardware vertical scale of 1mV/div or lower, when in fact it's only fake software zoom. These tactics simply do not reflect excellence in my view.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2019, 10:08:13 pm »
And 80% of this feedback has been from folks who sell directly competing products.
No, that is not true at all. Where did you get that idea??
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Mivera

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #71 on: September 18, 2019, 10:12:46 pm »
So nobody who has posted in this thread (besides Rich) is in the industry of selling measurement equipment? And if so is this measurement equipment R&S, or something out of Asia?
 

Online tautech

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2019, 10:22:22 pm »
So nobody who has posted in this thread (besides Rich) is in the industry of selling measurement equipment?
Only me I think.

Quote
And if so is this measurement equipment R&S, or something out of Asia?
I've NOT suggested any competing model (which I could) and like others I'm only suggesting your mindset of excluding Asian brands is misguided or at least ill informed.

Anyways, you've made your selection and joined the forum so welcome and enjoy the many varied discussions about TE plus many other topics.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline TopLoser

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #73 on: September 18, 2019, 10:24:57 pm »
So nobody who has posted in this thread (besides Rich) is in the industry of selling measurement equipment? And if so is this measurement equipment R&S, or something out of Asia?

Jeez.. never mind the scope, you’re high maintenance!!

You already bought the thing, it’s too late to be chasing opinions now - just report back when you’ve evaluated it.
 
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Online JxR

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Re: R&S RTC1002
« Reply #74 on: September 18, 2019, 10:26:38 pm »
And 80% of this feedback has been from folks who sell directly competing products.
No, that is not true at all. Where did you get that idea??


So nobody who has posted in this thread (besides Rich) is in the industry of selling measurement equipment? And if so is this measurement equipment R&S, or something out of Asia?

I'm pretty sure he was just pointing out your exaggeration of the specific figure of 80%.  tautech posted 4 times in this thread.  Out of 70+ posts, that would be ~5% of the posts, not 80%.  You brought Rich into this thread yourself...
 


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