Products > Test Equipment
R&S to launch MXO5
2N3055:
--- Quote from: tooki on August 25, 2024, 12:03:58 pm ---Non-rectangular is exotic, sure. But the thing that is really interesting is that you can do a zone trigger on the spectrum analyzer. I don’t think the Keysight 3000X/4000X can do that. That opens up some really interesting frequency-domain triggers.
--- End quote ---
That is interesting. That is called Frequency Mask Triggering in SA parlance.
And no M.Z. IV scopes can do, in fact not many at all can do that. That is full blown mixed domain function.
What would be interesting to see is what is POI (probability of intercept) for that function..
tooki:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on August 25, 2024, 01:10:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on August 25, 2024, 12:03:58 pm ---Non-rectangular is exotic, sure. But the thing that is really interesting is that you can do a zone trigger on the spectrum analyzer. I don’t think the Keysight 3000X/4000X can do that. That opens up some really interesting frequency-domain triggers.
--- End quote ---
That is interesting. That is called Frequency Mask Triggering in SA parlance.
And no M.Z. IV scopes can do, in fact not many at all can do that. That is full blown mixed domain function.
What would be interesting to see is what is POI (probability of intercept) for that function..
--- End quote ---
I haven’t a clue. (I have zero experience with “real” SA’s, I’ve only ever used the FFT or SA feature in oscilloscopes.) If there’s a simple way to test it, lemme know how and I’ll try it out on the MXO4 at work.
I suppose I’m not surprised that it’s R&S that added this to a DSO, given their STRONG background in RF test gear like SAs.
jjoonathan:
The ability to do a "zone trigger" on a FFT goes way back on the RTO/RTE instruments: you could add frequency zones to the mask test and set the action to stop/record. It would only apply to waveforms that the regular trigger had already decided to capture so the POI wasn't in the same league as an RTSA, but at the same time the R&S scopes can do so many hardware-accelerated waveform captures and FFTs that in practice it usually worked so long as you weren't hunting the rarest of events. The MXO4/5 are multiples stronger on the waveform/FFT front so I expect them to be even stronger in this regard, but still not in a position to offer RTSA-competitive POIs. Again, in practice this is often not an issue -- as you saw in Shahriar's video, you can pretty aggressively filter with the zones and still get decent update rates if the event is decently repetitive
https://youtu.be/EHEXDHxzSB0?t=2278
I've been lobbying for true RTSA zone triggers for years, because as we know from Deep Voice Guy, R&S know how to do them (1) but it turns out there might have been a reason for R&S's reticence to port over the RTSA features to the scopes due to ongoing patent litigation. Apparently Tektronix bought another patent on recording I/Q samples on an oscilloscope :-- :-- :--
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8675719
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8521460
R&S challenged this with some success
https://developer.uspto.gov/ptab-web/#/search/documents?proceedingNumber=IPR2018-00643
but the ruling left some of the claims standing because Tek was able to make the argument fly that this was totally different from their previous patent on account of having an ever so slightly different signal path. This probably leaves open the route to RTSA functionality so long as it shares the same signal path as time-domain waveforms, but A) I'm not sure if R&S wants to touch this, B) I am not sure the details of their private agreement with Tek, and C) even if they decided to go ahead with it they probably wouldn't have started until the litigation settled in 2020. Best case is that we see RTSA-like POI in the next few scopes. Worst case is they wait for the patents to expire and we don't see it for a decade, and while the POI isn't as good as it could have been it is good enough for many purposes. These R&S scopes are fast.
(1)
jjoonathan:
Hey, it looks like the Tektronix patent on a Modulation Domain Trigger expires next year :-+ :
https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1669764A1/en
mkissin:
Interestingly, there's a bunch of new bundle offers for both the MXO4 and now also the MXO5 scopes, valid until March 31 2025.
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/promotion/oscilloscopes-promotion_253927.html
The MXO5 ones aren't on the website for some reason, but they are in the PDF flyer.
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