SALEAE prices ...

[markone]

Some years ago i was going to buy a basic SALEAE LA to sniff serial buses with custom protocols (that i develop) but things went in a different way and i used different tools, mainly MCUs programmed for the purpose.

Some days ago, after seeing a friend using an old Logic device with the Logic 2 i finally decided to proceed with the purchase except that i soon discovered that prices skyrocket to the sky, probably i lived under a rock but ... WT* happened in the mean time ?

My memories were about something around 150 USD for the simpler tool, now we start from 500 Euros with the cheapest one ...  i fear i do not understand their business model.

Now the question : is there a way to buy an older and cheaper legit device ? ( I do not give a * for analog signals)

[Fungus]

Now the question : is there a way to buy an older and cheaper legit device ? ( I do not give a * for analog signals)

I don't think you can buy anything old from saleae.

There's cheap clones though: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=24mhz+usb+logic

And free software to use with them if you want to be 100% "legit": https://sigrok.org/wiki/PulseView

[sokoloff]

I use one of the cheap Chinese analyzers that, from what I can tell, uses similar hardware as the Saleae Logic 8. So similar that the Saleae software worked with it ages ago. (I don't know if it still does.)

It works just fine with sigrok (an alternative software), so if your need is digital only, 24 MHz, 8-channel, it's a $20 prospect to try it out.
That's been good enough for me to troubleshoot some of my ESP32 projects, a router that wouldn't boot, and a 3D printer board that was malfunctioning.

Even if you're going to eventually get something more expensive, I'd judge the Chinese CY7C68013A-based device to be legit when used with sigrok software.

https://atadiat.com/en/e-hands-on-test-saleae-usb-logic-analyzer-24mhz-8ch-clone/
https://chinese-electronics-products-tested.blogspot.com/p/24m-8ch-logical-analyser-tested.html

[artag]

I think the clones made it not worthwhile competing at that end of the market.
A shame, as the saleae hardware and software is a treat (though I tend to resist the latest version .. last time I tried it still wasn't as smooth as the original).

This is why we can't have nice things ..

[markone]

Yes, i'm aware that it's possible to use cheap Cypress based Logic clones but as a professional consultant i have to go "clean" in some job context, reason why i asked for "legit" devices.

Anyhow, 500 euros for Logic 8, well ... come on ...

[Fungus]

Anyhow, 500 euros for Logic 8, well ... come on ...

You can get a Digital Discovery for less and it's far more powerful:

https://digilent.com/shop/digital-discovery-portable-usb-logic-analyzer-and-digital-pattern-generator/

[markone]

Even if you're going to eventually get something more expensive, I'd judge the Chinese CY7C68013A-based device to be legit when used with sigrok software.

It makes sense and i agree with that, but Sigrock lacks (or seems to lack) the feature that i need most : trigger on UART decoder output byte sequence and / or stacked protocol analysis.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

In addition also the "real time" screen update and the way the serial decoder's output is displayed in Logic2 comes a lot in handy, I had a completely different memory of older versions.

[markone]

Anyhow, 500 euros for Logic 8, well ... come on ...

You can get a Digital Discovery for less and it's far more powerful:

https://digilent.com/shop/digital-discovery-portable-usb-logic-analyzer-and-digital-pattern-generator/

Which applications support it ?

[markone]

Anyhow, just saw Saleae discontinued products prices on Adafruit website :

Logic 4 : 109 USD
Logic 8 : 149 USD
Logic 16 : 249 USD

Old Logic 4 would have been perfect for my need ...

[DavidAlfa]

Use a clone and sigrok, you won't be breaking anything.
If it comes with cloned USB VID/PID, you can set a custom one in the EEPROM that belongs to Sigrok's fx2lafw open source firmware:

Code: [Select]

1D50:608C: fx2lafw-sigrok-fx2-8ch.fw (8ch 24MHz)
EEPROM:    C0 50 1D 8C 60 00 1B 00 (Rest FF)

1D50:608D: fx2lafw-sigrok-fx2-16ch.fw (16ch 12MHz)
EEPROM:    C0 50 1D 8D 60 00 1B 00 (Rest FF)
Details:
https://www.sigrok.org/blog/sigrok-firmware-fx2lafw-013-released

You can use fx2tool to modify the eeprom, but it's just 8 bytes, so I simply desoldered the EEPROM and modified in a programmer, takes a minute.
More here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/saleae-clone-24mhz-8-channel-la-looses-its-brains/

So you'll be using open source firmware and software, nothing that could be seen as piracy, you can't use Saelae software with those vid/pid, only sigrok.

[mwb1100]

OpenTechLab on youtube has several videos discussing inexpensive logic analyzers and how to use them with the open source sigrok pulseview software.  He also talks a bit about the ethics of using Saleae clones - he was a contributor. It boils down to if the logic analyzer is using open source (non-saleae) firmware and software, then it’s “clean”.  It’s just a cypress chip using open source software.

The videos also demonstrate using sigrok’s PulseView software.  Finally there’s an interesting teardown & review of the DSLogic Plus, which is a moderately priced LA that’s not a Saleae clone.

  - General info on inexpensive LAs:
  - A teardown of a DSLogic Plus:
  - Using the DSLogic with sigrok:

[markone]

OpenTechLab on youtube has several videos discussing inexpensive logic analyzers and how to use them with the open source sigrok pulseview software.  He also talks a bit about the ethics of using Saleae clones - he was a contributor. It boils down to if the logic analyzer is using open source (non-saleae) firmware and software, then it’s “clean”.  It’s just a cypress chip using open source software.

Hi,

i never had a single doubt about that, problem is Pulseview is lacking a mandatory feature for my purpose : trigger on byte sequence coming from async serial decoding, i would be glad if i'm wrong  .

In the mean time a put my hands on two different devices :

1) a Kingst LA1010 LA from Amazon
2) an old USBee AX Pro clone

First one seems well build, allows to select voltage threshold and support up 50V at logic inputs but ... its own SW is totally unable to trigger on serial decoding output AND the device is de facto not supported under Sigrok, at least windows version.

Second one works a treat with Logic 2 (after VID/PID "cure") doing everything i need using Concatenator extension, with a nice realtime trace & decoding display, as i saw at my friend lab some days ago ( he also was unaware about current prices ...).

To recap : LA1010 useless, clone OK, so i have to find a legit low cost Saleae device, i cannot show the oriental clone & Saleae SW with my customers.

But after having spent at least one hour searching on the web it seems impossible, there are only few sad men selling old inventory at tripled cost.

I also found out that after Saleae price increase most of Chinese clones doubled (at least) in price, especially ones with 16CH and FPGA and i also found out a couple of official statement from Saleae published to justify the HUGE cost increase (as if the global crisis was their only problem) and i also spotted their romantic video about the art of debugging, like every thing was made by their device in automated fashion.

if we follow their reasoning a Rigol DS1054Z should cost at least 1000USD (plus taxes) and thinking what was inside their old budget model sold at 109 USD i struggle to believe that it was impossible to make some margin.

Reality is that now they are doing hundreds from a single device, but i wonder how many they are selling.

[Fungus]

Which applications support it ?

https://digilent.com/shop/software/digilent-waveforms/

[voltsandjolts]

trigger on byte sequence coming from async serial decoding

USB analysers in the price range you are looking at do not support triggering on uart decode, or any kind of decode. You get edge/level triggers and combinations of those across channels at best.

A possible low cost solution is to make your own trigger circuit.
Program a small mcu with uart to toggle a pin when your desired character is seen, then use that pin as a trigger in your chosen LA.
If the system you are debugging has an mcu, which you're programming, then use that mcu.

Want to spend more money? Take a look at ZeroPlus
youtube.com/watch?v=JwEsS7tVnFQ
People say good things about them, although I've never liked the look of their GUI.

[markone]

Which applications support it ?

https://digilent.com/shop/software/digilent-waveforms/

Ok, this evening i will take some time to register and try the software in demo mode, but i wonder if this is the only data analysis application that support it.

[markone]

trigger on byte sequence coming from async serial decoding

USB analysers in the price range you are looking at do not support triggering on uart decode, or any kind of decode. You get edge/level triggers and combinations of those across channels at best.

A possible low cost solution is to make your own trigger circuit.
Program a small mcu with uart to toggle a pin when your desired character is seen, then use that pin as a trigger in your chosen LA.
If the system you are debugging has an mcu, which you're programming, then use that mcu.

This is what i did until now, but now i need something more flexible.

Anyway, every low cost solution supports async serial decoding under Sigrok / Pulseview, the problem is only related to trigger over the content mechanism, but without this specific need it's enough to spend 10USD.

[voltsandjolts]

Anyway, every low cost solution supports async serial decoding under Sigrok / Pulseview

Of course, but decoding is done _post_ acquisition (by python plugins) and cannot be used for acquisition triggering.

[DavidAlfa]

i cannot show the oriental clone & Saleae SW with my customers.

Just use sigrok
Clones don't have Saleae anywhere, neither they include any pirated firmware, the fw is loaded by the program running on the PC, you would only be breaking the license if you used Saleae SW with it.

Otherwise, Saleae design is just the EZ-USB FX2LP reference board with a TTL buffer.
No way of calling it "pirated design".

[markone]

i cannot show the oriental clone & Saleae SW with my customers.

Just use sigrok
Clones don't have Saleae anywhere, neither they include any pirated firmware, the fw is loaded by the program running on the PC, you would only be breaking the license if you used Saleae SW with it.

Otherwise, Saleae design is just the EZ-USB FX2LP reference board with a TTL buffer.
No way of calling it "pirated design".

You didn't follow carefully the discussion, we all said that we agree with what you said about the use of LA clones, for the rest I need a trigger mechanism on async serial decode ouput but Sigrok does not provide that, Logic 2 does (at least last versions).

[dshorthill]

Not to debate Saleae prices, but they do have steep discounts available:

https://blog.saleae.com/saleae-discounts/

Disclosure… I own a Logic Pro 16, purchased at 50% discount when list price was $995. I’m a happy customer!

[markone]

Not to debate Saleae prices, but they do have steep discounts available:

https://blog.saleae.com/saleae-discounts/

Disclosure… I own a Logic Pro 16, purchased at 50% discount when list price was $995. I’m a happy customer!

From their page :

Standard        Pricing     Student Pricing   Enthusiast Pricing   Startup/Contractor Pricing
Logic 8            $479       $239                   $239                           $359
Logic Pro 8      $999             *                         *                          $849
Logic Pro 16    $1399     *                          *                               $1259

in my book, as a contractor,  "steep discounts" are something else.

Apart that, in EU there is no sign of similar "steep discount", Logic 8 costs for everyone550-600 Euros,  depending the seller.

To put it simple, there is now way in the world that i'll by this thing at this price.

[nctnico]

Some years ago i was going to buy a basic SALEAE LA to sniff serial buses with custom protocols (that i develop) but things went in a different way and i used different tools, mainly MCUs programmed for the purpose.

Some days ago, after seeing a friend using an old Logic device with the Logic 2 i finally decided to proceed with the purchase except that i soon discovered that prices skyrocket to the sky, probably i lived under a rock but ... WT* happened in the mean time ?

My memories were about something around 150 USD for the simpler tool, now we start from 500 Euros with the cheapest one ...  i fear i do not understand their business model.

I've seen other tools going up in price as well. Most likely it is due to component shortage and needing to buy parts at 10 times the price. About 2 years ago I paid around 200 euro for a Prologix ethernet GPIB interface. Right now they cost around 600 euro. I triple checked: it is the same model I bought!

At the current Salea prices levels it makes more sense to buy an oscilloscope with digital inputs (or upgrade your existing DSO if possible).

[dshorthill]

The”Enthusiast” discount is not shown for the Logic Pro 8 or Logic Pro 16.  I stated I was an Enthusiast and asked by email and was offered 50% off. I think this percentage applies to all models?

[markone]

Some years ago i was going to buy a basic SALEAE LA to sniff serial buses with custom protocols (that i develop) but things went in a different way and i used different tools, mainly MCUs programmed for the purpose.

Some days ago, after seeing a friend using an old Logic device with the Logic 2 i finally decided to proceed with the purchase except that i soon discovered that prices skyrocket to the sky, probably i lived under a rock but ... WT* happened in the mean time ?

My memories were about something around 150 USD for the simpler tool, now we start from 500 Euros with the cheapest one ...  i fear i do not understand their business model.

I've seen other tools going up in price as well. Most likely it is due to component shortage and needing to buy parts at 10 times the price. About 2 years ago I paid around 200 euro for a Prologix ethernet GPIB interface. Right now they cost around 600 euro. I triple checked: it is the same model I bought!

At the current Salea prices levels it makes more sense to buy an oscilloscope with digital inputs (or upgrade your existing DSO if possible).

Prologix ethernet GPIB interface is for sure something old and/or belonging to a niche, looking inside their product i do not feel that related BOM increased that much, but in the end it's not my business.

To finalize, i'll try to buy something legit used / old stock, but with little hope, otherwise my customers will see something from other brands.

[markone]

The”Enthusiast” discount is not shown for the Logic Pro 8 or Logic Pro 16.  I stated I was an Enthusiast and asked by email and was offered 50% off. I think this percentage applies to all models?

Dunno, i can only comment what i see, anyway no discounts available here in EU.