Author Topic: Scope upgrade for ~1500€  (Read 3218 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11893
  • Country: 00
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2020, 10:39:22 am »
(Apologies to everybody in advance but (a) He insulted me, and (b) This is too good to let go...)

There is no reason not to capture the full memory when you press "stop" or when you do a single-shot trigger. None.
::)
Oh FFS Fungus, go play with your new scope instead of rambling on about nothing or something you think you see.

I've been playing...

My new 'scope thinks this is important enough to have a permanent indicator at the top which shows the size of the visible screen data relative to the full memory buffer. Users can look at it anytime and see exactly how much they'll be able to zoom out if they hit "stop".



(The full memory is the yellow line. The visible area is the bit inside the brackets. The brackets move in/out when I change the horizontal timebase.)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 11:02:00 am by Fungus »
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 355
  • Country: fr
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2020, 10:48:27 am »
What model did you buy ?
 

Online mawyatt

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 658
  • Country: us
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2020, 01:36:46 pm »
That is because the Keysight lover entered the room. Nothing to be happy about that because these guys have  such a short memory that they incapable of remembering jokes  >:D
That's the thing, isn't it? There are a few people here who can't distinguish between normal conversation and endlessly obsessive disfunctional behaviour. They think anyone else is how they are and what they're doing somehow normal. I don't think you understand how fed up most people here are with thread after thread being barfed full of the same inane drivel. Any sensible discussion is long gone because the sensible people quickly move on. There's a wealth of knowledge which won't partake in these conversations because of the bad behaviour of a few. What's left is the same hot garbage we see in every thread. Newcomers in turn are missing out both because a lot of knowledge is absent and because they're actively fed FUD. Not to mention their first Eevblog experience is by far the worst one to be had. It's like a toxic moat keeping people out.

I don't know why Dave puts up with it, but maybe he's decided his time is more valuable. If it were up to me the two or three usual suspects would've been booted long ago. Any useful posts are swamped by an avalanche of disappointment and bile.

I think a relative newcomer like myself needs to spend some time reviewing the posts to get an idea of where the bias is. In my case a recently retired advanced technology researcher doing SOTA IC design I had never heard of Rigol, Siglent, GW Instek or others. Our labs had Tek, HP/A/KS, R&S equipment, and I had very little exposure to DSOs since at the later part of my career I was at the front of the IC design and didn't get into the labs much. So when I starting a new home lab to get back to my older "hands on" lab experience I got a couple Tek 2465 scopes off eBay and fixed them up, then a couple HP & Agilent 34401A DMMs and fixed them up, this was my comfort zone Tek & HP. Since I needed a cal reference for the DMMs I decided on the KS 34465A. I'm particular fond of Keysight having designed Indium Phosphide test chips in their 600GHz process, and know and worked with a few senior KS folks, so my KS preference.

Now it comes time to dabble in DSOs and this is when I came here looking for info to help decide back in July. I spend countless hours following all the posts on the various DSO threads, and became familiar with the bias for the various brands. After "listening" to all the arguments/discussions and such, I decided to deviate from Tek or KS and try a Siglent, ending up with a SDS2102X Plus, which has exceeded my expectations in just about every way :)

So without all the endless arguments/discussions on various threads I probably would have ended up with a KS instead of the Siglent DSO. Would this have been bad, heck no the KS DSO is superb I'm sure. However, I believe the Siglent is a better value for my home use since my time isn't valued now (IC design is a very expensive field and time is also very expensive), if this was for our labs while I was working then the KS would have been the choice.

Anyway, my point is that having endless discussions from biased sources isn't always bad, and if you can spent the time to review the various posts then the bias can be factored into the responses. So a savvy newcomer looking for advise on a DSO purchase should spend some time to understand the responses from the various sources.

I do agree if the arguments/discussions gets out of hand then moderation is required.

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike
 
The following users thanked this post: 2N3055, Mr. Scram

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9823
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2020, 02:06:26 pm »
You will find the same behavior in all forums, in all areas.

There has been for years a war between Microchip VS Atmel ( It's very funny now by the way ).
Intel VS AMD
ATI VS NVIDIA
Windows VS Linux
gasoline VS diesel
Android VS IOS
[...]
True, you'll find similar pissing contests in various places. The difference is that the oscilloscope threads seem to be the most persistent and waged by the least varied group. Even the all too common OS war doesn't come close.

Added to that is that it's generally specifically newcomers who are targeted and misled with an overload of FUD. This means the group most susceptible to it is led into the weeds, very possibly making buying decisions that aren't most suited to their situation. Add to that the bad atmosphere that surrounds these discussions and the toxic behaviour is both negatively impacting newcomers and the broader community.

And for what? The gratification of a shill with skin in the game and a few other pissants? We're all better off without them. If you can't behave like a moderately decent human it's probably better to move on.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9823
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2020, 02:10:25 pm »
I think a relative newcomer like myself needs to spend some time reviewing the posts to get an idea of where the bias is. In my case a recently retired advanced technology researcher doing SOTA IC design I had never heard of Rigol, Siglent, GW Instek or others. Our labs had Tek, HP/A/KS, R&S equipment, and I had very little exposure to DSOs since at the later part of my career I was at the front of the IC design and didn't get into the labs much. So when I starting a new home lab to get back to my older "hands on" lab experience I got a couple Tek 2465 scopes off eBay and fixed them up, then a couple HP & Agilent 34401A DMMs and fixed them up, this was my comfort zone Tek & HP. Since I needed a cal reference for the DMMs I decided on the KS 34465A. I'm particular fond of Keysight having designed Indium Phosphide test chips in their 600GHz process, and know and worked with a few senior KS folks, so my KS preference.

Now it comes time to dabble in DSOs and this is when I came here looking for info to help decide back in July. I spend countless hours following all the posts on the various DSO threads, and became familiar with the bias for the various brands. After "listening" to all the arguments/discussions and such, I decided to deviate from Tek or KS and try a Siglent, ending up with a SDS2102X Plus, which has exceeded my expectations in just about every way :)

So without all the endless arguments/discussions on various threads I probably would have ended up with a KS instead of the Siglent DSO. Would this have been bad, heck no the KS DSO is superb I'm sure. However, I believe the Siglent is a better value for my home use since my time isn't valued now (IC design is a very expensive field and time is also very expensive), if this was for our labs while I was working then the KS would have been the choice.

Anyway, my point is that having endless discussions from biased sources isn't always bad, and if you can spent the time to review the various posts then the bias can be factored into the responses. So a savvy newcomer looking for advise on a DSO purchase should spend some time to understand the responses from the various sources.

I do agree if the arguments/discussions gets out of hand then moderation is required.

Best,
See my previous post. You obviously have some experience in the field and know to recognise a turd when you see one. The problem is that completely new and inexperienced people are maliciously led astray for reasons not serving their own, and get a rather unpleasant introduction to the forums to boot. I do appreciate your input and views, though. It's always welcome to see different perspectives.
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 355
  • Country: fr
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2020, 02:29:22 pm »
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20661
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2020, 04:15:55 pm »
That is because the Keysight lover entered the room. Nothing to be happy about that because these guys have  such a short memory that they incapable of remembering jokes  >:D
That's the thing, isn't it? There are a few people here who can't distinguish between normal conversation and endlessly obsessive disfunctional behaviour.
See, your self-diagnosis works excellent. I recall quite a few threads where you keep harping on about how Windows is so good and anyone not agreeing is a complete idiot. Meanwhile you add very little value to this thread as well. It doesn't go beyong bitching on people who offer their experience for free but do not agree with your (appearantly) limited view.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20661
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 355
  • Country: fr
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2020, 05:40:36 pm »
Too bad they stopped their 10inch series ( Micsig TO102 ) with BNC on the side.
 

Online 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3338
  • Country: hr
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2020, 06:30:42 pm »
Too bad they stopped their 10inch series ( Micsig TO102 ) with BNC on the side.

Nah, I was worried but it's not a problem at all. On a desk, you just swing cables back and on the side, left or right whatever is more convenient.. They are long enough.
When outside office, handheld and probing into devices, you are standing in front of device so BNCs point in direction of DUT....

That is not a problem. There a some U/I inconsistencies, and some other problems.Nothing major.
But as a general purpose diagnostic scope it's very nice. I use it all the time.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11893
  • Country: 00
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #61 on: October 28, 2020, 06:52:01 pm »
What model did you buy ?

Micsig  >:D

Yep.

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-STO1104C.html
Concrats! These are nice scopes.

I'm really liking it so far. Between the buttons and the touch screen, everything is really fast to access.

Now I've used it: I can totally see how it would work well without the knobs/buttons but the knobs/buttons were only 40 Euros extra with Batronix's current pricing so I went with them.

I don't see the position of the BNCs as a problem. If they were on the side they'd 50% likely be on the wrong side, which is worse IMHO.

That is not a problem. There a some U/I inconsistencies, and some other problems.Nothing major.

I counted two things I'd change in the UI. Very minor things.

One thing is 100% sure after 36 hours use: I'm not going back to a twisty "multifunction-knob" interface, ever. Doesn't matter how "well laid out" or "snappy/responsive" it is.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 07:25:41 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9823
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2020, 06:56:47 pm »
See, your self-diagnosis works excellent. I recall quite a few threads where you keep harping on about how Windows is so good and anyone not agreeing is a complete idiot. Meanwhile you add very little value to this thread as well. It doesn't go beyong bitching on people who offer their experience for free but do not agree with your (appearantly) limited view.
That's the problem, you don't offer experience. You offer jack shit, except an incredibly biased view. You say you have experience with various oscilloscopes but you have nothing to show for. You don't supply your experience or pros and cons like so many other people do. I don't care what you recommend, as long as it's a honest and somewhat unbiased point of view. People will always have personal preferences and a certain degree of bias, but that's miles apart from an obsessive infatuation and actively campaigning your personal agenda or wallet at the expense of others.

I don't know whose posts about Windows you read, but I doubt they were mine. Windows does some things reasonably well and many others are a shit show. I don't think Windows is "so good". I probably tried arguing something positive and got labeled "pro Windows" by the retards who need to polarize everything into extremes to understand the world. Whatever the case, this thread isn't about Windows and there's no value in making it one other than starting a mud fight, so we best leave that remark for what it is. The SNR is atrocious enough as it is.

 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20661
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2020, 07:37:48 pm »
See, your self-diagnosis works excellent. I recall quite a few threads where you keep harping on about how Windows is so good and anyone not agreeing is a complete idiot. Meanwhile you add very little value to this thread as well. It doesn't go beyong bitching on people who offer their experience for free but do not agree with your (appearantly) limited view.
That's the problem, you don't offer experience. You offer jack shit, except an incredibly biased view. You say you have experience with various oscilloscopes but you have nothing to show for.
Now you are just showing you are full of sh!t. I don't get what your deal is, but to me it seems like you are on some kind of crusade out of spite or so. Get a life!

I did some reviews on various oscilloscopes:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2204-mso-review/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gw-instek-gds2204e-(200mhz-4-channel-dso)-review/msg855862/#msg855862
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-to1104-(similar-to-rigol-1104z)/msg1196293/#msg1196293
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rohde-schwarz-rtm3000-review/msg1604185/#msg1604185

And over the years I have also posted some other hands-on experiences with oscilloscopes:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-54835a-scope-(4-channel-1ghz-4gss)-repair-uphack/msg1251605/#msg1251605
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2748842/#msg2748842

What do you have to show for yourself?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
The following users thanked this post: tautech

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9823
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #64 on: October 28, 2020, 08:13:59 pm »
Now you are just showing you are full of sh!t. I don't get what your deal is, but to me it seems like you are on some kind of crusade out of spite or so. Get a life!

I did some reviews on various oscilloscopes:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2204-mso-review/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gw-instek-gds2204e-(200mhz-4-channel-dso)-review/msg855862/#msg855862
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-to1104-(similar-to-rigol-1104z)/msg1196293/#msg1196293
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rohde-schwarz-rtm3000-review/msg1604185/#msg1604185

And over the years I have also posted some other hands-on experiences with oscilloscopes:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-54835a-scope-(4-channel-1ghz-4gss)-repair-uphack/msg1251605/#msg1251605
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2748842/#msg2748842

What do you have to show for yourself?
So why there so much FUD barf? Direct that attention and energy to making more useful posts. Though the fact you still have to ask what my deal is worries me. When I mention what's happening in the oscilloscope threads in the TEA thread I get an awful lot of ayes, personal accounts of similar stories and why they quickly stopped frequenting these threads and people knowing exactly which members are involved. Playing coy is a bit silly.
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20661
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #65 on: October 28, 2020, 08:52:51 pm »
I don't think we need you to police this forum. If Dave or Simon get annoyed they will step in. Nobody is forced to read threads they don't want to read. There are lots of topics and subsections in this forum which don't interest me and I'm not going in there to say other people don't like what is being discussed.

Besides that I'm not mentioned in the TEA thread at all (just checked using search) so I don't get why you are picking on me (not just in this thread but in other threads as well).
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 01:29:21 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Martin72

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1731
  • Country: de
  • Testfield Technician
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #66 on: October 28, 2020, 10:37:09 pm »
My new oscilloscope isn't a Rigol. Which one is me?

An A or B Brand ?  ;)

Ah, a Micsig... 8)

They´re making good current probes, I got the CP2100B....excellent price value.


Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11893
  • Country: 00
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #67 on: October 29, 2020, 05:09:49 am »
Ah, a Micsig... 8)

Yep.

PS: This post was typed on my new oscilloscope...  :P
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 02:36:46 pm by Fungus »
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20661
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #68 on: October 29, 2020, 08:28:09 am »
So you can play Doom on it https://js-dos.com/games/doom.exe.html
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
The following users thanked this post: egonotto

Offline voltsandjolts

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1067
  • Country: gb
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #69 on: October 29, 2020, 08:48:35 am »
The Micsig is great little portable scope. Heck, I use it on the bench a lot too.
Good battery life, fairly well laid out UI with minimal bugs/annoyances.
One bug I noticed:
There is a feature that will auto-off the scope if not used for certain length of time.
I have had the scope auto-off while I have been adjusting knobs.
I think they forgot to include some knob movements in the 'scope being used' detection for auto-off.
I'm not using the latest android firmware so maybe thats been fixed.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11893
  • Country: 00
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #70 on: October 29, 2020, 01:48:05 pm »
So you can play Doom on it https://js-dos.com/games/doom.exe.html

Apparently so! (although only 1fps so not much fun)

It also runs Youtube and most other web sites just fine.

It doesn't have Google play installed so there's no app store.  >:(  I'm trying to get it to let me install .apk files manually but it doesn't let me.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 04:22:39 pm by Fungus »
 
The following users thanked this post: nctnico, egonotto

Offline Martin72

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1731
  • Country: de
  • Testfield Technician
Re: Scope upgrade for ~1500€
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2020, 10:46:13 pm »
Quote
It also runs Youtube and most other web sites just fine.

A tablet with scope functionality.. 8)


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf