SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware

[eTobey]

Math channel colors gone...
When scale is getting low, colors of (probably all) math channels change to white.

[ebastler]

Math channel colors gone...
When scale is getting low, colors of (probably all) math channels change to white.

Interesting... It's not 100% white, but a very bright pastel green and blue (i.e. with remnants of the original trace colour), I think. I wonder whether there is some intent behind it? But certainly it's not documented behavior, right?

When do you observe this? What do you mean by "scale is getting low"?

[eTobey]

I mean timebase.

Those 2 pictures just show when it happens. (See timebase on bottom)

[2N3055]

Your Intensity is at 100% ?

[eTobey]

Brightness was at 100%. If you choose 50%, there is still a change in color, which is still enough to be confusing. There is seemingly none at at lowest brightness.

Fortunately this is a workaround i can live with.

[eTobey]

Math channel is reset during change of time position
(Note that the scope is in stop mode, where one would want to look at details, and move around)

Created an average in a math channel (F2 - PNG69), but after changing the time position, the averaging is seemingly gone, and the first frame (?) is shown instead (PNG70).

[tautech]

Beta FW is undergoing testing.
Unknown release date.

[newbrain]

Beta FW is undergoing testing.
Unknown release date.

Oh, maybe I'm late - I've probably discovered a small bug in the FFT markers.
Unfortunately, I had no time to better investigate before leaving and I'm now about 2000 km from my scope.

This is a short description, to the best of my recollection, it was repeatable and not a one-off:
1. Latest FW, unchained SDS804X HD, memory set to 10 Mpts.
2. Set up math channel F1 for FFT, source C1, range 100 MHz, center 50 MHz, flattop window - can't remember the timebase, but long enough to have a RBW of a few 10s of kHz (visually, spikes instead of domes). FFT units dBm, top 0 dBm, 20 dBm/, split screen. C1 vertical scale 100 mV, most probably.
3. Set four markers to specific frequencies - I'm sure of these, as I was testing a receiver: 45 MHz (IF), 10 MHz (RF), 55 MHz (LO) 65 MHz (image).
4. Have fun with measures.  This RX is promising.
5. Turn off scope via the power button, either later removing or not the mains - it happened both ways AFAICR.
6. Turn on the scope, C1 and the FFT appear as expected, timebase, vertical scale, span and center frequency are correctly restored.
7. Problem:The set markers kept their settings and set frequencies, as could be seen from the relevant menu panel, but they all are displayed on the left side of the FFT (at 0 MHz).
8. Workaround: Selecting any of them in the menu and using the multifunction knob to change the frequency (note that the frequency was correctly remembered and shown in the field!) will restore the position of the marker.

I'm sorry I cannot provide screenshots or a more detailed description, and I'll be back there only one month from now...

EtA: some more detail I remember, also (hint hint, nudge nudge): if the scope had WoL, I could easily reproduce it, the input signal was immaterial

[2N3055]

Beta FW is undergoing testing.
Unknown release date.

Oh, maybe I'm late - I've probably discovered a small bug in the FFT markers.
Unfortunately, I had no time to better investigate before leaving and I'm now about 2000 km from my scope.

This is a short description, to the best of my recollection, it was repeatable and not a one-off:
1. Latest FW, unchained SDS804X HD, memory set to 10 Mpts.
2. Set up math channel F1 for FFT, source C1, range 100 MHz, center 50 MHz, flattop window - can't remember the timebase, but long enough to have a RBW of a few 10s of kHz (visually, spikes instead of domes). FFT units dBm, top 0 dBm, 20 dBm/, split screen. C1 vertical scale 100 mV, most probably.
3. Set four markers to specific frequencies - I'm sure of these, as I was testing a receiver: 45 MHz (IF), 10 MHz (RF), 55 MHz (LO) 65 MHz (image).
4. Have fun with measures.  This RX is promising.
5. Turn off scope via the power button, either later removing or not the mains - it happened both ways AFAICR.
6. Turn on the scope, C1 and the FFT appear as expected, timebase, vertical scale, span and center frequency are correctly restored.
7. Problem:The set markers kept their settings and set frequencies, as could be seen from the relevant menu panel, but they all are displayed on the left side of the FFT (at 0 MHz).
8. Workaround: Selecting any of them in the menu and using the multifunction knob to change the frequency (note that the frequency was correctly remembered and shown in the field!) will restore the position of the marker.

I'm sorry I cannot provide screenshots or a more detailed description, and I'll be back there only one month from now...

EtA: some more detail I remember, also (hint hint, nudge nudge): if the scope had WoL, I could easily reproduce it, the input signal was immaterial

AFAIK I was not under impression that markers are persisted over reboot...

[newbrain]

AFAIK I was not under impression that markers are persisted over reboot...

Manual markers, and the four I had enabled and set up were active after reboot. Had they not, I probably wouldn't have noticed.
Their frequency was right, as said, and now that I remember, I had the on screen list active which also showed the right frequency - level I can't say, as the DUT was off, and only the noise floor was visible.

But the blue thingies with the marker number were all in the leftmost position - until I fiddled with the frequency, one by one (i.e. I had to go through all of them to make them move in the right spots).

[eTobey]

Beta FW is undergoing testing.
Unknown release date.

Do you know details of the new firmware? Did they put at least one of the characters "_-. +*" (note the whitespace) on the keyboard? Its really stup tedious to do 3 clicks for a spacebar or one of these characters. It would be an easy task to change this.

[das_strobel]

AFAIK I was not under impression that markers are persisted over reboot...

Manual markers, and the four I had enabled and set up were active after reboot. Had they not, I probably wouldn't have noticed.
Their frequency was right, as said, and now that I remember, I had the on screen list active which also showed the right frequency - level I can't say, as the DUT was off, and only the noise floor was visible.

But the blue thingies with the marker number were all in the leftmost position - until I fiddled with the frequency, one by one (i.e. I had to go through all of them to make them move in the right spots).

The same bug (in my humble opinion) exists on the SDS1000X HD btw. I always wanted to report it but somehow never did until now.

[eTobey]

Another issue (yes its not a big one, but i had to get up off the chair and go to the pc  ):
Cant put cursor on end of text without risking it to vanish completely (hence the cross):

[Bill3745]

I'm not sure this is an actual bug, but it is interesting and I wanted to share.  Attached is the frequency response of a bandwidth enhanced SDS814X and PP510 probe.  The probe was set to 10x, properly compensated and attached to a SDG6000X waveform generator with a BNC adapter and a 50 Ohm through terminator. The generator was swept from 1 MHz to 350 MHz and result displayed with FFT max hold and settings as shown.

What I found interesting is the increasing amplitude (to the tune of ~ 1db) from ~30 MHz to ~110 MHz.  For reference I have also attached a trace using just a 50 Ohm scope terminated RG-58 cable to rule out any amplitude flatness issues on the AWG and show the scope's "natural" roll-off. It seems like the input capacitance of the scope might be changing slightly with frequency. It is also possible that it is just the result of using the "cheap" supplied probes. Thoughts?

[2N3055]

I'm not sure this is an actual bug, but it is interesting and I wanted to share.  Attached is the frequency response of a bandwidth enhanced SDS814X and PP510 probe.  The probe was set to 10x, properly compensated and attached to a SDG6000X waveform generator with a BNC adapter and a 50 Ohm through terminator. The generator was swept from 1 MHz to 350 MHz and result displayed with FFT max hold and settings as shown.

What I found interesting is the increasing amplitude (to the tune of ~ 1db) from ~30 MHz to ~110 MHz.  For reference I have also attached a trace using just a 50 Ohm scope terminated RG-58 cable to rule out any amplitude flatness issues on the AWG and show the scope's "natural" roll-off. It seems like the input capacitance of the scope might be changing slightly with frequency. It is also possible that it is just the result of using the "cheap" supplied probes. Thoughts?

Well,

I don't see why a frequency response of a probe should be considered a scope bug.
A bug would be software problem.

That being said, 1dB peaking deviation is still a decent performance for inexpensive probe, IMHO.

[Bill3745]

I'm not sure this is an actual bug, but it is interesting and I wanted to share.  Attached is the frequency response of a bandwidth enhanced SDS814X and PP510 probe.  The probe was set to 10x, properly compensated and attached to a SDG6000X waveform generator with a BNC adapter and a 50 Ohm through terminator. The generator was swept from 1 MHz to 350 MHz and result displayed with FFT max hold and settings as shown.

What I found interesting is the increasing amplitude (to the tune of ~ 1db) from ~30 MHz to ~110 MHz.  For reference I have also attached a trace using just a 50 Ohm scope terminated RG-58 cable to rule out any amplitude flatness issues on the AWG and show the scope's "natural" roll-off. It seems like the input capacitance of the scope might be changing slightly with frequency. It is also possible that it is just the result of using the "cheap" supplied probes. Thoughts?

Well,

I don't see why a frequency response of a probe should be considered a scope bug.
A bug would be software problem.

That being said, 1dB peaking deviation is still a decent performance for inexpensive probe, IMHO.

Well, for one thing you are assuming that it is the probe and not an issue with the scope.  Also, as an aside, 1db is actually fairly poor for a probe within its bandwidth spec.

 

[Martin72]

What exactly do you want to measure at 100Mhz?
With a probe? And 1M input impedance.....

[Bill3745]

What exactly do you want to measure at 100Mhz?
With a probe? And 1M input impedance.....

If this thread is only about software/firmware issues then I apologize and will take this elsewhere.  However, if this thread also covers hardware "bugs" then I think the relevance is that the input path on the scope may have some compensation issues.  The probe was connected to the AWG with a BNC adapter through a 50 Ohm pass through terminator and should be good through its rated bandwidth in this configuration.

[2N3055]

I'm not sure this is an actual bug, but it is interesting and I wanted to share.  Attached is the frequency response of a bandwidth enhanced SDS814X and PP510 probe.  The probe was set to 10x, properly compensated and attached to a SDG6000X waveform generator with a BNC adapter and a 50 Ohm through terminator. The generator was swept from 1 MHz to 350 MHz and result displayed with FFT max hold and settings as shown.

What I found interesting is the increasing amplitude (to the tune of ~ 1db) from ~30 MHz to ~110 MHz.  For reference I have also attached a trace using just a 50 Ohm scope terminated RG-58 cable to rule out any amplitude flatness issues on the AWG and show the scope's "natural" roll-off. It seems like the input capacitance of the scope might be changing slightly with frequency. It is also possible that it is just the result of using the "cheap" supplied probes. Thoughts?

Well,

I don't see why a frequency response of a probe should be considered a scope bug.
A bug would be software problem.

That being said, 1dB peaking deviation is still a decent performance for inexpensive probe, IMHO.

Well, for one thing you are assuming that it is the probe and not an issue with the scope.  Also, as an aside, 1db is actually fairly poor for a probe within its bandwidth spec.

I am not assuming. I see your own measurement of flatness of BW of the scope when fed with BNC...
By that same token,why do you assume it is not AWG? It is not a leveled signal generator so you can not be sure...

It is not uncommon for a passive scope probe to show peaking. In fact it is very common.
If you have a datasheet for a probe, any passive probe, can you show me BW flatness specification?
It says only BW (-3dB).

In attachment MSOX3104T with N2843A, 500Mhz probe.

2 of these probes cost as much as SDS824xHD, full retail price.
I think you are having unrealistic expectations.

Also in another attachment, same N2843A probe on SDS800xHD.

Truth is, if you left SDS804xHD at 100MHz BW, with probes that came with, you would have perfect response...

[2N3055]

What exactly do you want to measure at 100Mhz?
With a probe? And 1M input impedance.....

If this thread is only about software/firmware issues then I apologize and will take this elsewhere.  However, if this thread also covers hardware "bugs" then I think the relevance is that the input path on the scope may have some compensation issues.  The probe was connected to the AWG with a BNC adapter through a 50 Ohm pass through terminator and should be good through its rated bandwidth in this configuration.

By definition what is hardware is not a bug but a defect. Not arguing, but just saying what is the usage of the word for organizational purposes.

[Bill3745]

What exactly do you want to measure at 100Mhz?
With a probe? And 1M input impedance.....

If this thread is only about software/firmware issues then I apologize and will take this elsewhere.  However, if this thread also covers hardware "bugs" then I think the relevance is that the input path on the scope may have some compensation issues.  The probe was connected to the AWG with a BNC adapter through a 50 Ohm pass through terminator and should be good through its rated bandwidth in this configuration.

By definition what is hardware is not a bug but a defect. Not arguing, but just saying what is the usage of the word for organizational purposes.

I think that is being a little pedantic since "bug" is now often used to describe any potential design issue, but accept your definition for the purposes of this thread. Thanks for the clarification.

[Bill3745]

I'm not sure this is an actual bug, but it is interesting and I wanted to share.  Attached is the frequency response of a bandwidth enhanced SDS814X and PP510 probe.  The probe was set to 10x, properly compensated and attached to a SDG6000X waveform generator with a BNC adapter and a 50 Ohm through terminator. The generator was swept from 1 MHz to 350 MHz and result displayed with FFT max hold and settings as shown.

What I found interesting is the increasing amplitude (to the tune of ~ 1db) from ~30 MHz to ~110 MHz.  For reference I have also attached a trace using just a 50 Ohm scope terminated RG-58 cable to rule out any amplitude flatness issues on the AWG and show the scope's "natural" roll-off. It seems like the input capacitance of the scope might be changing slightly with frequency. It is also possible that it is just the result of using the "cheap" supplied probes. Thoughts?

Well,

I don't see why a frequency response of a probe should be considered a scope bug.
A bug would be software problem.

That being said, 1dB peaking deviation is still a decent performance for inexpensive probe, IMHO.

Well, for one thing you are assuming that it is the probe and not an issue with the scope.  Also, as an aside, 1db is actually fairly poor for a probe within its bandwidth spec.

I am not assuming. I see your own measurement of flatness of BW of the scope when fed with BNC...
By that same token,why do you assume it is not AWG? It is not a leveled signal generator so you can not be sure...

It is not uncommon for a passive scope probe to show peaking. In fact it is very common.
If you have a datasheet for a probe, any passive probe, can you show me BW flatness specification?
It says only BW (-3dB).

In attachment MSOX3104T with N2843A, 500Mhz probe.

2 of these probes cost as much as SDS824xHD, full retail price.
I think you are having unrealistic expectations.

Also in another attachment, same N2843A probe on SDS800xHD.

Truth is, if you left SDS804xHD at 100MHz BW, with probes that came with, you would have perfect response...

Thanks for running a similar test with a higher quality probe.  If you a have a P510 could you run the same test with that as a point of comparison to what I was seeing?

[2N3055]

Thanks for running a similar test with a higher quality probe.  If you a have a P510 could you run the same test with that as a point of comparison to what I was seeing?

Like I said before in another topic I don't have it. My Siglent probes are 500MHz and better quality than those Keysight ones.
Could we please now mowe this probe discussion to a topic where probes are discussed and leave this place for SW/FW related posts please?

[Furna]

Thanks for running a similar test with a higher quality probe.  If you a have a P510 could you run the same test with that as a point of comparison to what I was seeing?

This thread is for generic discussion about Siglent SDS800X HD
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/

[Bill3745]

Thanks for running a similar test with a higher quality probe.  If you a have a P510 could you run the same test with that as a point of comparison to what I was seeing?

Like I said before in another topic I don't have it. My Siglent probes are 500MHz and better quality than those Keysight ones.
Could we please now mowe this probe discussion to a topic where probes are discussed and leave this place for SW/FW related posts please?

Happy to do so since it was made pretty clear that this thread of for firmware issues only.