SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware

[eTobey]

Who doesn't separate their channels and in doing so channel labels will separated be too.....if they're set to ON.

I separated my channels, BUT it would be REALLY helpful to have the labels at each traces. Or Siglent gets its colors right....

You tell me, which channel the most upper trace is...

[electr_peter]

...
Did you not read my post?
I have MSOX3104T.
It does exactly the same thing as  Siglent..

Have you checked behavior of normal and tracked cursors on KS and Siglent? They are not the same, KS is more flexible.
KS regular cursors show proper A-B diff both in non-zoom and zoom modes. In Siglent you have to use zoom mode to get proper A-B result (or zoom out).
KS tracked cursors show proper dY/dX in zoom mode for full main display (i.e. cursors can go out of "zoom" display). In Siglent you have to use narrow zoom window (cannot go outside zoom window) to get proper dY/dX result. When tracked cursor are capped to display edge, all bets are off for dY/dX and dY values.

You can get the similar results in the end if you try hard enough, but there is a difference in implementation. IMO Siglent tries to emulate cursor behavior of KS, but are unable due to other design decisions (memory/zoom thing).

For standard X cursors, they are where you put them...

Siglent cursors do not sit still with changing zoom level... And you never know if cursor is just capped to the edge of display, or you touched it and know it is fixed at edge for real. And it depends on zoom mode as well.

They don't measure anything, they are just there.

Kind of, time measurement cursors are "synthetic" - equivalent to digital cursor overlay on analog scope screen.

If they are outside the visible screen they have no useful application then.

I strongly disagree, as there is immediate useful application - time difference measurement A-B without requiring to zoom-in/out multiple times. Cursor is just sitting where it was last set, nothing mysterious happens when display window moves away. Compare how many steps it takes to measure time differences A-B & A-C in capture buffer [...A...long duration...B...short duration...C...] with KS and Siglent (with and without zoom).

[2N3055]

...
Did you not read my post?
I have MSOX3104T.
It does exactly the same thing as  Siglent..

Have you checked behavior of normal and tracked cursors on KS and Siglent? They are not the same, KS is more flexible.
KS regular cursors show proper A-B diff both in non-zoom and zoom modes. In Siglent you have to use zoom mode to get proper A-B result (or zoom out).
KS tracked cursors show proper dY/dX in zoom mode for full main display (i.e. cursors can go out of "zoom" display). In Siglent you have to use narrow zoom window (cannot go outside zoom window) to get proper dY/dX result. When tracked cursor are capped to display edge, all bets are off for dY/dX and dY values.

You can get the similar results in the end if you try hard enough, but there is a difference in implementation. IMO Siglent tries to emulate cursor behavior of KS, but are unable due to other design decisions (memory/zoom thing).

For standard X cursors, they are where you put them...

Siglent cursors do not sit still with changing zoom level... And you never know if cursor is just capped to the edge of display, or you touched it and know it is fixed at edge for real. And it depends on zoom mode as well.

They don't measure anything, they are just there.

Kind of, time measurement cursors are "synthetic" - equivalent to digital cursor overlay on analog scope screen.

If they are outside the visible screen they have no useful application then.

I strongly disagree, as there is immediate useful application - time difference measurement A-B without requiring to zoom-in/out multiple times. Cursor is just sitting where it was last set, nothing mysterious happens when display window moves away. Compare how many steps it takes to measure time differences A-B & A-C in capture buffer [...A...long duration...B...short duration...C...] with KS and Siglent (with and without zoom).

Of course on Siglent cursors stay in place and also measure everything if you use zoom.
You can change zoom level any way you want, and they will stay where you put them.

Did you misunderstood something?

Manual cursors are very limited tools. You set them by yourself. Do you know where they are? Where you put them.
On Keysight there is no saved time for a A-B and then A-C measurement, unless B and C are on the same screen to begin with.

You have to:
1. Set slow timebase to capture long event.
2. Locate and position X1 to roughly where A is
3. Set timebase to see detail of A.
4. Set A cursor precisely.
5. Set slow timebase to find where in buffer is B.
6. Move to that place in buffer
7. Set timebase to see detail for B.
8. Set cursor X2 for B
9. Measure A-B
10. Set slow timebase to find where in buffer is C.
11. Move to that place in buffer
12. Set timebase to see detail for C.
13. Set cursor X2 for C
14. Measure A-C

On Siglent if both are on the screen you have measurements. If not, just use timebase to put them both on the screen, after no 8 and and after no 14. And that is it.
So on 14 steps you have 2 more,yes. But that is hardly much more work.

Or use Zoom and have it all at the same time on the screen.
In which case you have direct control of both cursors at all times and overview over full event.
Which is what I use on Keysight too.

So there is no difference for me.

[eTobey]

If they are outside the visible screen they have no useful application then.

I strongly disagree...

So do i! And please consider that with some people here disagreeing or arguing is a waste of time.

BTW.
Did you misstook the fixing of a curso the the screenborder with the gate beeing fixed to the screenborder? I could not observe such behaviour with a quick test in zoom mode, nor could i with normal view.

BUT, i found a discrepancy of the visual positions of the cursors from the zoomed view to the overview: the left one is about 1 division in, and is shown as on the screen border in the overview, while this happens on the right side cursor only until 1/4 of a division.
No day without a new flaw (even if tiny). 
ALSO, try this with vertical cursor and put it on zero: its 1-2 pixels off...

[electr_peter]

1, 2, ..., 14

B&C points could be close to fit on one screen at fast timebase, so steps 10-11 would not be needed with KS (or with Siglent in zoom mode only) for manual cursors. For "track waveform" cursors, with KS you don't need steps 10-11, but with Siglent you must use them to get the result. Now add more points D, E, F, ... is the same vicinity and problem grows.
Siglent cursors do not have consistent "of screen" behavior depending on a mode.

So there is no difference for me.

You use a scope in a way that you do not experience this difference, that's fine.

eTobey, cursors are capped/clipped to border depending on zoom, they are not "fixed" as such (they spring back to original position). You just don't know that from current zoom level.
I will take a look at cursor pixel position accuracy on a screen.

[eTobey]

eTobey, cursors are capped/clipped to border depending on zoom, they are not "fixed" as such (they spring back to original position). You just don't know that from current zoom level.
I will take a look at cursor pixel position accuracy on a screen.

You are just refering to the same issue i do? If so, then your use of the term "zoom" is incorrect. You do only see one window for traces right? Maybe a screenshot would help.
See my links for this issue. (2nd item on my toplist.)

[eTobey]

Colors of traces change when changing samplerate.
(Seems to be the same issue i already documented)

[electr_peter]

eTobey, cursors are capped/clipped to border depending on zoom, they are not "fixed" as such (they spring back to original position). You just don't know that from current zoom level.
I will take a look at cursor pixel position accuracy on a screen.

You are just refering to the same issue i do? If so, then your use of the term "zoom" is incorrect. You do only see one window for traces right? Maybe a screenshot would help.
See my links for this issue. (2nd item on my toplist.)

Cursor measures screenborder
Between the pictures, only the timescale has been changed. Observe how the curser measure values change though.

Behavior of cursors in non-zoom mode (when time/div is changes up/down without zoom window) was described multiple times in this topic - normal time cursors are capped to visible screen. This is not a bug of Siglent (although annoying to some of us), it is designed to do this. In zoom mode regular cursors are not capped to small zoom display edges, so you can use that.

[tautech]

eTobey, cursors are capped/clipped to border depending on zoom, they are not "fixed" as such (they spring back to original position). You just don't know that from current zoom level.
I will take a look at cursor pixel position accuracy on a screen.

You are just refering to the same issue i do? If so, then your use of the term "zoom" is incorrect. You do only see one window for traces right? Maybe a screenshot would help.
See my links for this issue. (2nd item on my toplist.)

Cursor measures screenborder
Between the pictures, only the timescale has been changed. Observe how the curser measure values change though.

Behavior of cursors in non-zoom mode (when time/div is changes up/down without zoom window) was described multiple times in this topic - normal time cursors are capped to visible screen. This is not a bug of Siglent (although annoying to some of us), it is designed to do this. In zZoom mode regular cursors are not capped to small zoom display edges, so you can use that.

FTFY

[ebastler]

Behavior of cursors in non-zoom mode (when time/div is changes up/down without zoom window) was described multiple times in this topic - normal time cursors are capped to visible screen. This is not a bug of Siglent (although annoying to some of us), it is designed to do this. In zZoom mode regular cursors are not capped to small zoom display edges, so you can use that.

FTFY

STFU.

You may not realize how passive-aggressive that "FTFY" comes across which you love to use. But hopefully you do realize that "fixing" a capitalisation adds zero value?

[tautech]

Behavior of cursors in non-zoom mode (when time/div is changes up/down without zoom window) was described multiple times in this topic - normal time cursors are capped to visible screen. This is not a bug of Siglent (although annoying to some of us), it is designed to do this. In zZoom mode regular cursors are not capped to small zoom display edges, so you can use that.

FTFY

STFU.

You may not realize how passive-aggressive that "FTFY" comes across which you love to use. But hopefully you do realize that "fixing" a capitalisation adds zero value?

Rubbish.
Zoom mode and zoom (the timebase) are distinctly different and need be made plainly clear of which is which.

[eTobey]

Behavior of cursors in non-zoom mode (when time/div is changes up/down without zoom window) was described multiple times in this topic - normal time cursors are capped to visible screen. This is not a bug of Siglent (although annoying to some of us), it is designed to do this. In zZoom mode regular cursors are not capped to small zoom display edges, so you can use that.

FTFY

STFU.

You may not realize how passive-aggressive that "FTFY" comes across which you love to use. But hopefully you do realize that "fixing" a capitalisation adds zero value?

Rubbish.
Zoom mode and zoom (the timebase) are distinctly different and need be made plainly clear of which is which.

Another occasion, where you could have wrote just one explainatory post instead of a multiple! I just didnt notice that "fix".

Nevertheless, in the end the Siglent shows random values, that a user would not expect nor be interested in. Again leading to more confusion, and going down the wrong way!

[electr_peter]

What I wrote in that post is very clear to scope users both in terms of content and semantics. tautech's drive by troll fix adds nothing of value.

[Furna]

Nevertheless, in the end the Siglent shows random values, that a user would not expect nor be interested in. Again leading to more confusion, and going down the wrong way!

Those are not random values; those are measurements of cursors you see on the screen.
You are not interested, but other more experienced users are well interested since it resembles the old way used on analog oscilloscopes.
Also, you can use the Zoom function to obtain what you desire.
You have been told multiple times; there is no right or wrong here.
It is as it is on Siglent ...

[Furna]

What I wrote in that post is very clear to scope users both in terms of content and semantics. tautech's drive by troll fix adds nothing of value.

At least tautech didn't insult anyone ... passive-aggressive is paradoxical IMHO
STFU is actively-aggressive and insulting ...

[eTobey]

You are not interested, but other old yesterday users are well interested since it resembles the old way used on analog oscilloscopes.

FTFY 



But WAIT, what would be the actual use case? The trigger beeing on the screenborder?

[eTobey]

Those are not random values; those are measurements of cursors you see on the screen.

Its true: a position, that is randomly set by the horizontal delay...   

[electr_peter]

BUT, i found a discrepancy of the visual positions of the cursors from the zoomed view to the overview: the left one is about 1 division in, and is shown as on the screen border in the overview, while this happens on the right side cursor only until 1/4 of a division.
...
ALSO, try this with vertical cursor and put it on zero: its 1-2 pixels off...

I do not see significant discrepancies in either horizontal or vertical cursors. Maybe 1-2px, but that's not even visible on small screen. Do you have actual example of significant discrepancy in horizontal cursors?

Another annoyance about Siglent cursors - go to Zoom mode, enable manual horizontal cursors, go out out of the small zoom display border with cursor.  Horizontal cursor time step changes (becomes coarser, that's fine), but cursor offset remainder is different each time going out of small window border. You get 5ns granularity, but offset one time is 100ns (105-110-..., OK), next it is 100.5ns (105.5-110.5-..), next time it is 103.5ns (108.5ns-113.5ns-...). I get if offset remainder would be non-integer from zoom window offset value, but I got these results without changing offset, only going outside/inside zoom borders with cursors.
Cursor values should be consistent with screen border or last set cursor position.

[eTobey]

I do not see significant discrepancies in either horizontal or vertical cursors. Maybe 1-2px, but that's not even visible on small screen. Do you have actual example of significant discrepancy in horizontal cursors?

No, since pictures cant show this. Just move the cursors, until they appear to be on the border of the zoom window (both from outside to inside). Then observe how they differ. They may not differ thought, because other settings may play a role.

[eTobey]

Not having a clock that keeps its time is a stupid design flaw!   
Just happend again! 

It seems because of network issues, but seriously? Next thing is, scopes wouldnt work at all without internet connection? Even loses the clock while it had power in between restarts. 

(Yes, i now NTP servers exist, but so do other network issues. So you can keep your advice in this regard to yourself!)

[2N3055]

Not having a clock that keeps its time is a stupid design flaw!   
Just happend again! 

It seems because of network issues, but seriously? Next thing is, scopes wouldnt work at all without internet connection? Even loses the clock while it had power in between restarts. 

(Yes, i now NTP servers exist, but so do other network issues. So you can keep your advice in this regard to yourself!)

I think we should ask Siglent to put in real time clock controller and battery in next firmware update for SDS800xHD. 
Or you can take an anger management class and start seeing a therapist.
Or, best solution, now that you have been using scopes for some time, you seem to start to have an idea what you think a scope good for you should be.
Write a list down and then find a scope that does all you need, and buy that one.
Preferably from some other manufacturer, so we here can finally be rid of your endless verbal abuse...

[eTobey]

I think we should ask Siglent to put in real time clock controller and battery in next firmware update for SDS800xHD. 

That joke gave me actually an idea, how this could be realized (somewhat):
There has to be a way to wake up the CPU to clock the time regularly. And i would not mind it, if it would not display the exact time (10s in a day is good enough until the NTP works again), i got used to see wrong values (decode, false accuracy and values of measurments on zooming out, cursor measuring border of screen, signal after step ...) 

[2N3055]

I think we should ask Siglent to put in real time clock controller and battery in next firmware update for SDS800xHD. 

That joke gave me actually an idea, how this could be realized (somewhat):
There has to be a way to wake up the CPU to clock the time regularly. And i would not mind it, if it would not display the exact time (10s in a day is good enough until the NTP works again), i got used to see wrong values (decode, false accuracy and values of measurments on zooming out, cursor measuring border of screen, signal after step ...) 

There is not a way to wake up CPU occasionally.
These are not PCs or smartphones.
When it is off it is off, not sleeping.
There is a separate power controller hardware.

But I also had a genius idea:  if we really need exact time, we could ask Siglent to implement NTP and synch a scope time with it... Wait.... no, that is already implemented. 

Or you could buy a scope that has RTC clock inside, if that is so important.

[Furna]

I think we should ask Siglent to put in real time clock controller and battery in next firmware update for SDS800xHD. 

That joke gave me actually an idea, how this could be realized (somewhat):
There has to be a way to wake up the CPU to clock the time regularly. And i would not mind it, if it would not display the exact time (10s in a day is good enough until the NTP works again), i got used to see wrong values (decode, false accuracy and values of measurments on zooming out, cursor measuring border of screen, signal after step ...) 

There is not a way to wake up CPU occasionally.
These are not PCs or smartphones.
When it is off it is off, not sleeping.
There is a separate power controller hardware.

But I also had a genius idea:  if we really need exact time, we could ask Siglent to implement NTP and synch a scope time with it... Wait.... no, that is already implemented. 

Or you could buy a scope that has RTC clock inside, if that is so important.

2N3055 you should have let him go down that road ...  crack open his oscilloscope and start tinkering with it. A project that would end in a failure but with some luck at least keep him busy for a few weeks.
 

[2N3055]

I think we should ask Siglent to put in real time clock controller and battery in next firmware update for SDS800xHD. 

That joke gave me actually an idea, how this could be realized (somewhat):
There has to be a way to wake up the CPU to clock the time regularly. And i would not mind it, if it would not display the exact time (10s in a day is good enough until the NTP works again), i got used to see wrong values (decode, false accuracy and values of measurments on zooming out, cursor measuring border of screen, signal after step ...) 

There is not a way to wake up CPU occasionally.
These are not PCs or smartphones.
When it is off it is off, not sleeping.
There is a separate power controller hardware.

But I also had a genius idea:  if we really need exact time, we could ask Siglent to implement NTP and synch a scope time with it... Wait.... no, that is already implemented. 

Or you could buy a scope that has RTC clock inside, if that is so important.

2N3055 you should have let him go down that road ...  crack open his oscilloscope and start tinkering with it. A project that would end in a failure but with some luck at least keep him busy for a few weeks.
 

 

Seriously, I have no ill will towards the person. I just wish he would go into forest and yell at the trees how stupid they are because they don't grow the way he think they should... And what is with leafs and all the stupid colors...