SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware

[electronics hobbyist]

I learn from everyone on the forum in my spare time, and I am a Siglent fan.
I try to be objective and hope to discuss various technical issues with everyone.

This thread was created mainly for the following purposes:
- Avoiding a wrong perception of "too many bugs".
- makes sure that the real bugs get proper attention and are not lost in the noise.

As mentioned in another thread, Siglent is more concerned about bugs, and fixing bugs is Siglent's obligation.
There may be some discussions during the process, it's okay. If you're not sure if it's a bug, you can send me a private message and we'll try to avoid too much posts.

When a new version is released, I will put the link at the end, cross out the resolved bugs with a horizontal line after verification, and explain in which version it was solved.

In order to make the problem description clearer, based on Others' suggestions, it is defined as the following format:

Version: 1.1.3.3

Problem description: Trigger holdoff fails (or When holdoff is turned on, waveform acquisition stops)

Test signal: (If it is not related to the signal, it can be written as "Null")
-SDG2042X, connected via BNC into 50 Ohm terminator
-Square wave, 1 Vpp
-Frequency sweep 10 kHz 100 kHz over 100 ms

Scope settings: (If the settings are more complex, the current oscilloscope setup.xml can be attached, Try to start from "Default" as much as possible)
-Start from Default settings
-Connect signal to CH1
-Edge trigger, positive edge, 3 ms holdoff
-Leave timebase at default 1 µ s/div (but 5, 10, 50 µ s/div also show the problem)
-Leave memory at default 10 MPt (but other settings also show the problem)

Observed behavior: (Expected behavior can be written below)
-Leave scope in RUN mode, wait up to a minute or so (but some of the problem occurrences within seconds)
-In AUTO trigger mode, the scope will stop rendering new waveforms entirely Trigger status shows READY, trigger frequency counter is still updated, waveform is frozen Operation restarts after any user interaction
-In NORMAL trigger mode, the error seeds puller, but occurrence events Before it does, I noticed sporadic "hickups", where the trigger status switches to "Arm" and the waveform is not updated for a few months of a second


The following is the list of bugs and versions:

Unresolved bugs:
2. Some parameters have not been restored after selfcal, such as fft vertical gear, fft markers, and channel vertical settings. -- Martin
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5383955/#msg5383955
Note: 1.1.3.6 solved part of.

17. Qualified and Delay triggers level indicator is wrong in zoom mode. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5469073/#msg5469073
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5469121/#msg5469121

18.  There was problem when the FFT sample rate is not equal to the acquisition sample rate.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5494570/#msg5494570

Resolved bugs:
Resolved in 1.1.3.6:
3. After rebooting, the vertical gear of FFT did not restored. -- Martin
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5396141/#msg5396141

4. There have been crashes when using CAN and IIC decoding.The probability of reproduction is relatively low. -- Mortymore
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5396960/#msg5396960

5. The universal knob can only set the history frame when opening the menu, and should be able to operate the list when closing the menu.  -- ebastler
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5424557/#msg5424557

6. When the menu disappears, the universal knob light is still on, and at this time, the universal knob is used to change the brightness of the waveform.  -- newbrain
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5401697/#msg5401697

7. Measuring with cursors on a history frame is impossible, since moving the cursor changes the history frame simultaneously. -- eTobey

8. Math Function dialog automatically closes after channel change. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426099/#msg5426099
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5414804/#msg5414804

9. Trigger holdoff fails. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5424071/#msg5424071

10. SMB Client does not autoconnect when DHCP.  -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5417699/#msg5417699

11. History frame and intensity will change simultaneously.  -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5424257/#msg5424257

12. Sequence is restart when menus are opened and closed. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426579/#msg5426579

13. Scale number overlaying others.  -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426687/#msg5426687

14. The setting of the trigger type edge(When edge slope is set to alternate) influences the qualified trigger.  -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5467114/#msg5467114

15. When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", and setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5462833/#msg5462833
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5466322/#msg5466322

16. Most trigger settings for the Delay trigger are lost upon reboot. -- ebastler
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5466322/#msg5466322

Version download:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds800x-hd-series
SDS800X HD Firmware_V1.1.3.3 (Release Date 03.04.24 )
SDS800X HD Firmware_V1.1.3.6 (Release Date 05.23.24 ) (At least 14 bugs and 4 improvements have been merged, based on eevblog)

Latest developments:

[ebastler]

Just replying to "subscribe" to this thread.

Could you update your signature to point here and to the newly renamed "Features" thread? That might help others to get their bearings. It currently still points to your original bug/features summary post, in the thread which is now focused on feature suggestions.

[electronics hobbyist]

Could you update your signature to point here and to the newly renamed "Features" thread? That might help others to get their bearings. It currently still points to your original bug/features summary post, in the thread which is now focused on feature suggestions.

I have made modifications according to your suggestion, but due to the valid signature length, I had to reluctantly remove the review thread. If everyone need to know what this oscilloscope can do, you can refer to:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/

Meanwhile, OP has added the Latest developments section.

[eTobey]

I found a bug:
When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", and setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops. At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely. The trigger does not restart after moving it back.

[2N3055]

I found a bug:
When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", an setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops. At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely.

Hi.
Can you try something?

If you go from Normal to Auto trigger mode (Auto button in trigger area) does it happen then?
Press Auto an go in Trigger and change that level same way.

[ebastler]

When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", an setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops.

If you set the trigger level below the signal, the Source A state will never change. So it seems natural that the "<some time window> after a state change" condition is no longer met.   

At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely.

You mean the trigger rate decreases as you go below 50%, right?

What is the timing condition you have set for the delay trigger? It looks like your CH1 and CH3 change at pretty much the same time, so there's a race condition. Changing the trigger threshold for CH3 might shift the starting point for the delay condition by just the tiny required amount needed to either meet or fail the timing condition? 

[eTobey]

I found a bug:
When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", an setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops. At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely.

Hi.
Can you try something?

If you go from Normal to Auto trigger mode (Auto button in trigger area) does it happen then?
Press Auto an go in Trigger and change that level same way.

I can not observe a freeze with auto trigger. But there is something else i observed:
There is only a stable trigger from 0V to 300mv (the signal is 3.3V).

[eTobey]

When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", an setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops.

If you set the trigger level below the signal, the Source A state will never change. So it seems natural that the "<some time window> after a state change" condition is no longer met.   

At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely.

You mean the trigger rate decreases as you go below 50%, right?

What is the timing condition you have set for the delay trigger? It looks like your CH1 and CH3 change at pretty much the same time, so there's a race condition. Changing the trigger threshold for CH3 might shift the starting point for the delay condition by just the tiny required amount needed to either meet or fail the timing condition?

I think my video will answer all your questions.

[ebastler]

I think my video will answer all your questions.

No, it did not. It left me with exactly those questions, which is why I asked them. How about you answering them now?

[rf-loop]

I found a bug:
When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", and setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops. At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely. The trigger does not restart after moving it back.

I would also like to remind of this in general:
Trigger: Accuracy (typical) CH1 ~ CH4: ±0.2 div
Sensitivity CH1 ~ CH4 : DC ~ Max BW : 0.6div

As can see in your images some signals are barely over 0.6 div from signal bottom to top.

It is also good to remember that the triggering has vertical hysteresis and it need meet this. It has to be there, it is mandatory for trigger.
Personally, I wouldn't use such a low relative sigal level if I wanted to make sure that the trigger is as sure as rock solid. You can try set bit more channel sensitivity. 

And note. I do not try claim this is poroblem there now.  But in general, take care, you are working near trigger system borderline.




If look rising edge based triggers.  It trig when signal cosses trig level (3) but only IF signal level have first crossed trigger hysteresis threshold level (2). If it crosses hysteresis and go back below hyst threshold it of course do not trig (1). Only it trig if it first crosses (upwards) Hyst Threshold level and then upwards Trigger level. There is no any visible sign about this trigger hysteresis threshold level. (amount of hysteresis (gap between hysteresis level threshold and trigger level) is not just one fixed value. Trigger noise reduction affect to this hysteresis.
It can also see with very low signal levels. It maybe do not trig if trigger level is set middle og signal p-p but but moving it near top it still may trig (unreliable) if sigal just cross hyst level and trig level barely. So it "looks like" trigger have offset. But no, it have not. This behavior is based to this hysteresis. naturally if we use falling edge based trig... this system (as in image) is  vertically flipped.
Experience with triggers can only be achieved when you know the functioning of the triggering system a little more deeply. Of course, ordinary simple use does not require it. But in problematic situations, "know your device" is a guide worth its weight in gold.

[eTobey]

I found a bug:
When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", and setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops. At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely. The trigger does not restart after moving it back.

I would also like to remind of this in general:
Trigger: Accuracy (typical) CH1 ~ CH4: ±0.2 div
Sensitivity CH1 ~ CH4 : DC ~ Max BW : 0.6div

I thought about the hysteresis too, but on rising edge it should not trigger where it actually triggered?

Where do you got these values from? The trigger accuracy seems to be much more accurate than your numbers.

[eTobey]

When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", an setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops.

If you set the trigger level below the signal, the Source A state will never change. So it seems natural that the "<some time window> after a state change" condition is no longer met.   

At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely.

You mean the trigger rate decreases as you go below 50%, right?

What is the timing condition you have set for the delay trigger? It looks like your CH1 and CH3 change at pretty much the same time, so there's a race condition. Changing the trigger threshold for CH3 might shift the starting point for the delay condition by just the tiny required amount needed to either meet or fail the timing condition?

It freezes: no more triggering what so ever.

No, i meant the trigger rate has risen. (Why do you think the other way around?)

There are more edges blue can have on the left side.

I just had it freeze without doing nothing, so i suspect it may be related to the trigger holdoff issue. Therefore i will not discuss this any further and ignore it for now.

[ebastler]

It freezes: no more triggering what so ever.

No, i meant the trigger rate has risen. (Why do you think the other way around?)

There are more edges blue can have on the left side.

I just had it freeze without doing nothing, so i suspect it may be related to the trigger holdoff issue. Therefore i will not discuss this any further and ignore it for now.

If you had a trigger holdoff dialed in, then I  agree, all bets are off for now.

Looking at your video and screenshots, I am still wondering about the timing condition you have set. It looks an awful lot like the rising and falling edges of CH1 and CH3 occur at more or less the same time, and due to the finite rise time the exact timing will be determined by the trigger level you set.  If that is indeed the case, it would be an ill-defined trigger condition and you should think about other edge relationships (timing) to trigger on.

[eTobey]

It freezes: no more triggering what so ever.

No, i meant the trigger rate has risen. (Why do you think the other way around?)

There are more edges blue can have on the left side.

I just had it freeze without doing nothing, so i suspect it may be related to the trigger holdoff issue. Therefore i will not discuss this any further and ignore it for now.

If you had a trigger holdoff dialed in, then I  agree, all bets are off for now.

Looking at your video and screenshots, I am still wondering about the timing condition you have set. It looks an awful lot like the rising and falling edges of CH1 and CH3 occur at more or less the same time, and due to the finite rise time the exact timing will be determined by the trigger level you set.  If that is indeed the case, it would be an ill-defined trigger condition and you should think about other edge relationships (timing) to trigger on.

I dont see no such thing as holdoff in delay trigger. It might still relate to the holdoff issue, as i had another issue with, i believe it was delay trigger too, when i have set alternating edge on edge trigger. That means settings of edge trigger influenced the behaviour of the delay trigger.

Good point about ill formed trigger, but then the problem should dissappear right after i put the levels back?

In the meantime i found another issue, maybe it is somehow related:

At about 0:02, you can see a falling egde of C3 on the left side of the screen. This should be a measure to the falling edge of C1 on the right side of the screen, but the measure count stays zero. Later on i go into history and scroll back to this very same frame, and at about 0:16 you can see that it was a valid condition for measurement, as it has been counted. It has been missed in the first place.

[KungFuJosh]

If you're going to capture the whole screen, click the button to expand the scope to fullscreen.

[rf-loop]

I found a bug:
When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", and setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops. At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely. The trigger does not restart after moving it back.

I would also like to remind of this in general:
Trigger: Accuracy (typical) CH1 ~ CH4: ±0.2 div
Sensitivity CH1 ~ CH4 : DC ~ Max BW : 0.6div

I thought about the hysteresis too, but on rising edge it should not trigger where it actually triggered?

Where do you got these values from? The trigger accuracy seems to be much more accurate than your numbers.

These are from data sheet (rev EN01C) .
Of course they are conservative limits. Individual scope may be better. Note also Sensitivity  DC to Max BW

[eTobey]

Which button?
Aaah that tiny almost colorless one down there. Jeez i was desperatly looking for it and thought you wanted to fool me. Something that could be improved  .
Funfact:
The manual does not say anything about this button.

[electronics hobbyist]

In the meantime i found another issue, maybe it is somehow related:

At about 0:02, you can see a falling egde of C3 on the left side of the screen. This should be a measure to the falling edge of C1 on the right side of the screen, but the measure count stays zero. Later on i go into history and scroll back to this very same frame, and at about 0:16 you can see that it was a valid condition for measurement, as it has been counted. It has been missed in the first place.

This is not a bug. Trigger and measurement are two separate parts. Trigger is implemented by hardware, while measurement is implemented by software. It is not possible to measure every captured frame. The signal you input frequency is 5k, and the run state measurement speed cannot reach 5k wf/s. You should modify the title of this video to avoid misunderstandings.

[electronics hobbyist]

I suggest everyone discuss in another thread or send me a private message first. If the bug is confirmed, I will write it to this thread in the standard format.
I'm not limiting everyone's opinions. Let's stick to this for a while and see the effect first.

It is more appropriate to discuss here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-featureimprovment-disscusions/

[eTobey]

This is not a bug. Trigger and measurement are two separate parts.

I have edited the title accordingly. I was pretty sure that it was a bug, because it really "looked" like one. 

[electronics hobbyist]

This is not a bug. Trigger and measurement are two separate parts.

I have edited the title accordingly. I was pretty sure that it was a bug, because it really "looked" like one. 

Yes, It just looks like, I also hope a manufacturer can achieve a measurement speed of 100k frames/s or even millions frames/s, currently no manufacturer can do it (if it capturing a frame and then measuring one frame, this will significantly decrease the capture rate), as long as the capture rate is greater than the measurement speed, this phenomenon will occur. 

[Martin72]

No picture possible in PM, so i put it here:

There are two possibilities.
Either you use a picture upload service and post the link to the person you had pm contact with.
Or you can explain the context to the rest of the public here, i.e. what the picture is about and the corresponding backstory.

[eTobey]

No picture possible in PM, so i put it here:

There are two possibilities.
Either you use a picture upload service and post the link to the person you had pm contact with.
Or you can explain the context to the rest of the public here, i.e. what the picture is about and the corresponding backstory.

What is a good upload service?

[ebastler]

I found a bug:
When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", and setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops. At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely. The trigger does not restart after moving it back.

I looked at this again, and can reproduce it with simplified signals (just two square waves). All I can see, in my experiments and in your video, is:

• If you drop the CH3 threshold below the CH3 signal swing, there are no valid transitions in Source A anymore. Hence no triggering; that's to be expected.

• As you raise the CH3 threshold higher and higher, the low-to-high transition in CH3 will be detected later and later. Eventually it will no longer occur before the CH1 transition, but afterwards. And the next transition in CH1 is well outside the time window you have set for the delay trigger condition. Hence no triggering; that seems correct too.
  

I don't observe the "trigger does not restart after moving the threshold back" in my setup. And I actually can't see it in your video. Did I overlook it or is it not captured? Are you sure it's a reproducible effect for you? If so, please document the exact conditions -- thanks!

In Normal triggering mode, when the CH3 threshold is adjusted either too high or too low, triggering does indeed not restart once the threshold is set back to a good value. Some other change to the trigger settings (e.g. a minor change to the other channels's threshold) is required to restart triggering. That's a bug -- in a rather special situation, but I can see how it can leave the user very puzzled why the trigger does not work.

Also, most trigger settings for the Delay trigger are lost upon reboot: Source A channel selection and thresholds,  delay time condition and value(s). Only the Source B channel seems to be remembered. That's another bug I would say.

[eTobey]

Another issue: i am pretty sure i could use the b-word:
The setting of the trigger type edge influences the qualified trigger. In the first part of the video the trigger is not exactly stable, only if the slope of edge trigger is changed, the qualified triggers works without issues.

[eTobey]

I saved settings before, and after restart for the trigger settings lost issue. Maybe some other settings get lost also?

[ebastler]

Another issue: i am pretty sure i could use the b-word:
The setting of the trigger type edge influences the qualified trigger. In the first part of the video the trigger is not exactly stable, only if the slope of edge trigger is changed, the qualified triggers works without issues.

That is a strange one... Did you check the details of the qualified trigger settings before and after the edge trigger change? I.e. did anything get changed in the displayed settings for the qualified trigger, as a side effect of the change you made to the edge trigger?

[electronics hobbyist]

The setting of the trigger type edge influences the qualified trigger. In the first part of the video the trigger is not exactly stable, only if the slope of edge trigger is changed, the qualified triggers works without issues.

These two issues look the same and have been added to Bug No.14.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-featureimprovment-disscusions/msg5459225/#msg5459225

[electronics hobbyist]

I found a bug:
When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", and setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops. At 50% level it triggers kind of slow, but below the rate increases, but then eventually stops completely. The trigger does not restart after moving it back.

This problem is related to the signal. It requires that the signal of both channels is above or below zero level. Added to Bug No.15.

[eTobey]

Zoom function not working properly after loading mask:
Creating a mask and loading breaks the zoom function. See picture.

Also:
Creating a mask does not show the view that was set up for it.

I really would like that this feature "would" work with the zoom.

[2N3055]

Zoom function not working properly after loading mask:
Creating a mask and loading breaks the zoom function. See picture.

Also:
Creating a mask does not show the view that was set up for it.

I really would like that this feature "would" work with the zoom.

It does work.
You did not set it up properly.

[ebastler]

Still, something is wrong in the screenshot eTobey shared. Mask details aside, the zoomed view does not show the time window indicated in the upper window. What happened there?

[2N3055]

Still, something is wrong in the screenshot eTobey shared. Mask details aside, the zoomed view does not show the time window indicated in the upper window. What happened there?

I have no idea.
I have shown how it looks on mine.

[eTobey]

Zoom function not working properly after loading mask:
Creating a mask and loading breaks the zoom function. See picture.

Also:
Creating a mask does not show the view that was set up for it.

I really would like that this feature "would" work with the zoom.

It does work.
You did not set it up properly.

You missed a little detail: i made a custom mask by hand.

[eTobey]

Another little issue:
The timout counter for closing the menu is not restart, when a sub menu settings is choosen. At least on cursors menu and search menu, and i guess on every menu.

Not a big one, but still annoying and confusing.

[2N3055]

Zoom function not working properly after loading mask:
Creating a mask and loading breaks the zoom function. See picture.

Also:
Creating a mask does not show the view that was set up for it.

I really would like that this feature "would" work with the zoom.

It does work.
You did not set it up properly.

You missed a little detail: i made a custom mask by hand.

I didn't miss anything. You are again posting things without proper setup and explanation.
You said mask does not work in zoom. It does.

If here are requisite tigers in the next room eating cheesecake to make bug appear, than that information needs to be shared.

[eTobey]

If here are requisite tigers in the next room eating cheesecake to make bug appear, than that information needs to be shared.

On the picture, there is a mask that has been obviously made by hand.

You should have seen that sign, that said "Tigers room 22", but yes, it would have helped from my side to say, that they were eating cheesecake. In fact i didnt know, that the cheesecake was of importance.

[2N3055]

If here are requisite tigers in the next room eating cheesecake to make bug appear, than that information needs to be shared.

On the picture, there is a mask that has been obviously made by hand.

You should have seen that sign, that said "Tigers room 22", but yes, it would have helped from my side to say, that they were eating cheesecake. In fact i didnt know, that the cheesecake was of importance.

And again, smartass, antisocial, but so true to you signature on your account.

"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant." (Maxim Gorki)

After talking to you I do marvel at how nice and intelligent monkeys are..

Your apology was obviously just a manipulation not to get blocked so you get to keep being obtuse troll.

[KungFuJosh]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, but now I want cheesecake.

[eTobey]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, but now I want cheesecake.

Get the ingredients, i bake one for us. But be warned, i have never done this  .

Another issue:
Level indicator is wrong in zoom modus. It is not right in the bottom window (find the arrow).

[eTobey]

And again, smartass, antisocial, but so true to you signature on your account.

"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant." (Maxim Gorki)

After talking to you I do marvel at how nice and intelligent monkeys are..

Your apology was obviously just a manipulation not to get blocked so you get to keep being obtuse troll.

You have to see the beauty of this signature, you can put yourself on which ever side you want.

You may want to read what i wrote about that teamwork we somehow uintentionally did together, and realize that we could get along quite nicely if... I just used your creative  example, in which i actually acknowledged, that i could have done better. As i was meaning before, it might help to forget what there was before. 

[ebastler]

Level indicator is wrong in zoom modus. It is not right in the bottom window (find the arrow).

I can confirm this one. It applies to Qualified and Delay triggers; seems to work OK with other trigger modes.
Steps to reproduce:

Trigger threshold for Qualified and Delay triggers is displayed incorrectly in Zoom mode

Test signal:
None required; leave inputs open.

Scope settings:
- Start from Default mode
- Set trigger mode "Qualified" or "Delay". Leave all other trigger settings at default values.
- Switch axis labels on -- just to visualize the problem more clearly
- Switch zoom mode on
- In the lower window, increase vertical amplification -- e.g. two steps, to 200 mV/div
- Adjust the trigger threshold via the rotary encoder, and observe the screen

Observed behavior:
- The trigger threshold is displayed as a dashed line, both in the upper and lower window.
- Its position is correct in the upper window.
- In the lower window, its position is incorrect. It ignores the different vertical scale in the lower window.

[2N3055]

Level indicator is wrong in zoom modus. It is not right in the bottom window (find the arrow).

I can confirm this one. It applies to Qualified and Delay triggers; seems to work OK with other trigger modes.
Steps to reproduce:

Trigger threshold for Qualified and Delay triggers is displayed incorrectly in Zoom mode

Test signal:
None required; leave inputs open.

Scope settings:
- Start from Default mode
- Set trigger mode "Qualified" or "Delay". Leave all other trigger settings at default values.
- Switch axis labels on -- just to visualize the problem more clearly
- Switch zoom mode on
- In the lower window, increase vertical amplification -- e.g. two steps, to 200 mV/div
- Adjust the trigger threshold via the rotary encoder, and observe the screen

Observed behavior:
- The trigger threshold is displayed as a dashed line, both in the upper and lower window.
- Its position is correct in the upper window.
- In the lower window, its position is incorrect. It ignores the different vertical scale in the lower window.

Will check .. Thanks.

[2N3055]

And again, smartass, antisocial, but so true to you signature on your account.

"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant." (Maxim Gorki)

After talking to you I do marvel at how nice and intelligent monkeys are..

Your apology was obviously just a manipulation not to get blocked so you get to keep being obtuse troll.

You have to see the beauty of this signature, you can put yourself on which ever side you want.

You may want to read what i wrote about that teamwork we somehow uintentionally did together, and realize that we could get along quite nicely if... I just used your creative  example, in which i actually acknowledged, that i could have done better. As i was meaning before, it might help to forget what there was before. 

Your idea of teamwork is that all of us do the work for you...

[ebastler]

Your idea of teamwork is that all of us do the work for you...

From eTobey's side, it might feel like he is doing work for Siglent? -- You have to grant it to him: He has found a surprising number of bugs and rough edges within a short time.

Frankly, I am kind of OK with the "division of labor". It would not be my thing to play around and try features in all sorts of combinations, hence I would not have found most of these glitches any time soon. On the other hand, I like to work systematically, try to reproduce things and reduce them to the simplest possible scenario. So why not divide tasks according to personal preferences and strengths?

If Siglent then does their part and works on fixing the issues -- which seems to be happening right now -- everybody benefits.

[eTobey]

Your idea of teamwork is that all of us do the work for you...

From eTobey's side, it might feel like he is doing work for Siglent? -- You have to grant it to him: He has found a surprising number of bugs and rough edges within a short time.

Frankly, I am kind of OK with the "division of labor". It would not be my thing to play around and try features in all sorts of combinations, hence I would not have found most of these glitches any time soon. On the other hand, I like to work systematically, try to reproduce things and reduce them to the simplest possible scenario. So why not divide tasks according to personal preferences and strengths?

If Siglent then does their part and works on fixing the issues -- which seems to be happening right now -- everybody benefits.

Amen!

[ebastler]

I can confirm this one. It applies to Qualified and Delay triggers; seems to work OK with other trigger modes.

Will check .. Thanks.

Thanks for looking into this.

Looking back over the past few days, it seems like Qualified and Delay trigger are problematic in multiple ways: Bug entries #14 to #16 refer to them, now this new "trigger threshold in zoom mode" issue; they also both have a less-than-obvious UI and very sparse documentation in the manual.

I noticed that the SDS2000X+ manual does not mention them, so these two trigger types were probably added later and have not seen as much field testing as the rest of the firmware? I realize that it's probably very late in the game for the firmware update currently in the works, but if there's still a chance to overhaul Qualified and Delay triggers, that would make them a stronger part of the offering.

Come to think of it -- it seems that the Nth Edge and Setup/Hold triggers are also later additions which were not in the original 2000X+. Maybe they deserve some extra scrutiny too? I'll try to find some time tomorrow.

[2N3055]

I can confirm this one. It applies to Qualified and Delay triggers; seems to work OK with other trigger modes.

Will check .. Thanks.

Thanks for looking into this.

Looking back over the past few days, it seems like Qualified and Delay trigger are problematic in multiple ways: Bug entries #14 to #16 refer to them, now this new "trigger threshold in zoom mode" issue; they also both have a less-than-obvious UI and very sparse documentation in the manual.

I noticed that the SDS2000X+ manual does not mention them, so these two trigger types were probably added later and have not seen as much field testing as the rest of the firmware? I realize that it's probably very late in the game for the firmware update currently in the works, but if there's still a chance to overhaul Qualified and Delay triggers, that would make them a stronger part of the offering.

Come to think of it -- it seems that the Nth Edge and Setup/Hold triggers are also later additions which were not in the original 2000X+. Maybe they deserve some extra scrutiny too? I'll try to find some time tomorrow.

Like I said, new FW is coming. That is all I can share.

[ebastler]

As suggested yesterday, I checked which of the "modern" triggers (Qualified, Delay, Nth Edge, Setup/Hold) are affected by the recently found trigger-related bugs, to get a complete picture. Results are mixed:

#17 Wrong trigger threshold displayed in zoom mode
Qualified, Delay, Setup/Hold are affected
Nth Edge is OK

#16 Trigger settings are lost upon reboot
Qualified, Delay, Setup/Hold, Nth Edge all forget their complete setup:
Assigned channels, thresholds, delay/timeout settings, edge count setting are lost.

#15 Normal trigger does no resume after wrong threshold is corrected
Delay trigger is the only one affected.
(Clarification: Only change of a Source A threshold in the dialog causes this.
Change of Source B threshold via trigger level knob is OK.)

Qualified, Nth Edge, Setup/Hold are OK.

#14 Edge trigger setting affects Qualified trigger operation
I could not reproduce this one at all.
More information about the settings is needed. @eTobey?

[electronics hobbyist]

#14 Edge trigger setting affects Qualified trigger operation
I could not reproduce this one at all.

When the edge is alternating, switching to interval also causes the trigger to have two lines. So the culprit is the edge alternating trigger. Before the new version is released, the only way is not to set the edge alternation.

[ebastler]

From eTobey's side, it might feel like he is doing work for Siglent?

Actually, some kind of "bug bounty" program would be a nice touch. Users who find and characterize bugs are providing a service to Siglent and to the user community, after all.

Dear Siglent -- I would settle for an SLA1016 logic probe, ideally with an extra set of the better grabbers! 

[eTobey]

From eTobey's side, it might feel like he is doing work for Siglent?

Actually, some kind of "bug bounty" program would be a nice touch. Users who find and characterize bugs are providing a service to Siglent and to the user community, after all.

Dear Siglent -- I would settle for an SLA1016 logic probe, ideally with an extra set of the better grabbers! 

Actually a function generator would be my preferred item at the moment. Also i wouldnt find so much bugs then, which is something me and others would prefer anyway. 

[eTobey]

Issue:
Field of no response.

There is a region, where no clicks or dragging is working. Anyone else having this problem?
You can see the extends, if you look how the mouse pointer changes its appearance.

[BillyO]

Two things I have noticed so far..

1) Math does not appear on the ribbon menu at the top of the screen like on the SDS2000XP.  This means it's not available through the web interface.

2) You cannot enter the IP address is 206.108.0.132, nor the IP address 216.239.35.4  I can enter the 2 and the 0 of the first octet, but then it just stops.  I can enter 199 in the fist octet, but not 206 or 216.   200, 201, 202, 203 are all okay, but not 204, 205, 206, 207, 208 or 209 (214, 215 ..)

Very strange.

Has anyone else noticed these?

[tautech]

Two things I have noticed so far..

1) Math does not appear on the ribbon menu at the top of the screen like on the SDS2000XP.  This means it's not available through the web interface.

It is.
Math is done on an active channel by activating a Math channel.
Press the + and select Math for the new channel, then select its source.

[BillyO]

It is.

Ahh, RTFM then, eh?

It just looks and works so much like the SDS2KXP I made a silly assumption.

Thanks Rob.

[KungFuJosh]

RTFM

Rob's favorite line. 😉

[tautech]

It is.

Ahh, RTFM then, eh?

Actually I booted one to check and as you say there is no room for a Math dropdown due to the small display....actually it's one of the 1st things spotted when I got this one in early Feb as the white model SDS1000X HD I already had and its 10" display does have a top ribbon Math dropdown menu.

So rather than press the front panel Math button I already knew how to add a Math channel with a mouse but for this check so just used the touch display and the webserver will be the same.

[2N3055]

One thing that I like is copy to Ch..
You need to look into SPI?
Enable all 4 ch, Set 1st one, copy 3 times and off you go...

Those CH tabs are full of wonders....

[eTobey]

New issue: Measurement wont work on parts of the captured waveform:

The measurement does not measure, when the gate is at different positions. Watch the measurement tables when the gate is moving.

[Martin72]

What are you doing there?

[shapirus]

I really, really hate to post a reply here, because it will make the thread start popping up in the "new replies to your posts" section, and I have no immediate interest in Siglent scope bugs, but I finally have to, it's just unbearable.

@eTobey, pretty please, read this: https://marker.io/blog/how-to-write-bug-report
and this: https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
and this in general: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+write+a+good+bug+report

I mean no offense, truly. It's for everyone's good.

[eTobey]

I thought it is quite obvious what is happening. I have edited that post.

[2N3055]

I thought it is quite obvious what is happening. I have edited that post.

We get you are showing something about measurements.

Still no explanation what exactly do you think is wrong and why do you think is wrong.

[eTobey]

I thought it is quite obvious what is happening. I have edited that post.

We get you are showing something about measurements.

Still no explanation what exactly do you think is wrong and why do you think is wrong.

I edited that post (with the video), and put the explaination in there.

[2N3055]

I cannot reproduce any problem.

I made a signal on AWG:
Pulse, repetition frequency: 45.45Khz (22µs period), pulse width 150-300ns modulated with random noise.
Scope 1ch, slope trigger, 20µs/div, 2GS/s
Measurement gate width: 31.4 us
I guess that is close enough.

I found no problem with scope.
Fact that at certain points you stop having results for certain measurements is because of the fact that to establish measurements of period you need to select time period where there is a full period inside.

[eTobey]

I cannot reproduce any problem.

Me neither   

Should have saved the setup.

[eTobey]

I now could partially reproduce the issue. Only the width+ measure does not work now.
Maybe it is the way how to captured the waveform:
First single shot trigger, then activation of cursors and measurement. Scrolling the waveform to the right?

See attached the setupfile.

[eTobey]

I have an issue:
I captured a frame in roll mode (auto mode - stopped), the trigger position is right in the middle.

I can only change the scale from 200ms/div to 50ms/div. 

It somehow happend again:
I only changed timebase and hit start/stop. A restart solves this issue.

[electronics hobbyist]

OP has been updated to the latest status. According to feedback from eevblog, 1.1.3.6 has at least merged the following bugs and improvements.
Here are my test results, if you have any different opinions, please let me know.
(The list does not include all modifications, such as Optimize waveform capture rate, Optimize Self calibration speed, and so on.)

Resolved Bugs:
3. After rebooting, the vertical gear of FFT did not restored.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5396141/#msg5396141

4. There have been crashes when using CAN and IIC decoding.The probability of reproduction is relatively low. - The revision record includes this item
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5396960/#msg5396960

5. The universal knob can only set the history frame when opening the menu, and should be able to operate the list when closing the menu.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5424557/#msg5424557

6. When the menu disappears, the universal knob light is still on, and at this time, the universal knob is used to change the brightness of the waveform.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5401697/#msg5401697

7. Measuring with cursors on a history frame is impossible, since moving the cursor changes the history frame simultaneously.

8. Math Function dialog automatically closes after channel change.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426099/#msg5426099
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5414804/#msg5414804

9. Trigger holdoff fails.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5424071/#msg5424071

10. SMB Client does not autoconnect when DHCP.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5417699/#msg5417699[/s]

11. History frame and intensity will change simultaneously.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5424257/#msg5424257

12. Sequence is restart when menus are opened and closed.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426579/#msg5426579

13. Scale number overlaying others.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426687/#msg5426687

14. The setting of the trigger type edge(When edge slope is set to alternate) influences the qualified trigger.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5467114/#msg5467114

15. When adjusting the level for source A in "trigger delay", and setting it below low level of signal, acquire stops.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5462833/#msg5462833
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5466322/#msg5466322

16. Most trigger settings for the Delay trigger are lost upon reboot.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5466322/#msg5466322

Resolved Improvements:
6. The Save button under the Bode Plot does not work. Modify it to save the image according to the Bode Plot print settings.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5399735/#msg5399735

24. When using the knob with cursors, the cursor menu opens when pushing the knob. This is totally unnessary.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5414138/#msg5414138

25. When typing with the keyboard, dont close everything, when you click on a non keyboard area. Solution: have a margin around the keyboard.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5414924/#msg5414924

30. The checkbox for percent and count in the histogram window are to small, and easily missed.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5452967/#msg5452967

[eTobey]

25. When typing with the keyboard, dont close everything, when you click on a non keyboard area. Solution: have a margin around the keyboard.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5414924/#msg5414924

I can not see any improvement here. Using the webinterface, i can not recognize a margin around it. Also i am a bit dissapointed, that there is yet not a single special char (spacebar), that lets you write proper filenames, without doing 2 additional clicks.

[ebastler]

OP has been updated to the latest status. According to feedback from eevblog, 1.1.3.6 has at least merged the following bugs and improvements.

Many thanks for the summary!

We had an extended discussion on FFT behaviour in another thread, and Performa01 eventually concluded that there was problem when the FFT sample rate is not equal to the acquisition sample rate: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5494570/#msg5494570

Has this already been addressed in the 1.1.3.6 firmware as well?

[electronics hobbyist]

We had an extended discussion on FFT behaviour in another thread, and Performa01 eventually concluded that there was problem when the FFT sample rate is not equal to the acquisition sample rate: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5494570/#msg5494570

Has this already been addressed in the 1.1.3.6 firmware as well?

This problem still exists and has been added to bug No.18. Hope that subsequent versions will resolve the remaining bugs.

[eTobey]

I though the problem with the SCPI export was in the list...

SCPI export of decoded frames/bytes is incomplete:
There are 78 bytes that are captured, and that appear in the list on the scope, but the export does cut it short.

[electronics hobbyist]

I though the problem with the SCPI export was in the list...

SCPI export of decoded frames/bytes is incomplete:
There are 78 bytes that are captured, and that appear in the list on the scope, but the export does cut it short.

I tested it well with NI VISA, it seems that the web is limiting the return of data. You can use Python to read the data and save it.
My opinion is that the web is not a good analysis tool, such as obtaining decades of megabytes of data, Python is a good way to process data.

[tautech]

I though the problem with the SCPI export was in the list...

SCPI export of decoded frames/bytes is incomplete:
There are 78 bytes that are captured, and that appear in the list on the scope, but the export does cut it short.

I tested it well with NI VISA, it seems that the web is limiting the return of data. You can use Python to read the data and save it.
My opinion is that the web is not a good analysis tool, such as obtaining decades of megabytes of data, Python is a good way to process data.

There are other ways to do such things when you get to know your scopes better. 
 
BIN files that can easily be converted to CSV with the onboard file convertor tool and SMB File Share can make the best use of the available connectivity.

[2N3055]

I though the problem with the SCPI export was in the list...

SCPI export of decoded frames/bytes is incomplete:
There are 78 bytes that are captured, and that appear in the list on the scope, but the export does cut it short.

I tested it well with NI VISA, it seems that the web is limiting the return of data. You can use Python to read the data and save it.
My opinion is that the web is not a good analysis tool, such as obtaining decades of megabytes of data, Python is a good way to process data.

There are other ways to do such things when you get to know your scopes better. 
 
BIN files that can easily be converted to CSV with the onboard file convertor tool and SMB File Share can make the best use of the available connectivity.

Both BIN files and SCPI have their own merits.

SCPI is used when you don't want to save file, open it and parse it before being able to analyse it.
With SCPI you pull data directly into your program's memory...

BIN is useful to send data to others and save it for later.
SCPI is good for online analysis.

[ebastler]

There are other ways to do such things when you get to know your scopes better. 

That sounds like a lame excuse for a feature that is not quite working as advertised (i.e. SCPI delivering incomplete results over the web interface). Does "know your scope better" mean "know how to work around the scope's little defects" here? Or was it just meant as a little condescending side note?

[KungFuJosh]

There are other ways to do such things when you get to know your scopes better. 

That sounds like a lame excuse for a feature that is not quite working as advertised (i.e. SCPI delivering incomplete results over the web interface). Does "know your scope better" mean "know how to work around the scope's little defects" here? Or was it just meant as a little condescending side note?

Has anybody more experienced confirmed the SCPI issue? Perhaps somebody with a better network setup, and possibly using something better than a web browser to run the SCPI? There's too many variables, especially user error, to automatically assume there is actually an issue.

[ebastler]

Has anybody more experienced confirmed the SCPI issue? Perhaps somebody with a better network setup, and possibly using something better than a web browser to run the SCPI? There's too many variables, especially user error, to automatically assume there is actually an issue.

I had reproduced it with FW 1.1.3.3. I haven't re-tried with the new FW 1.1.3.6 yet, and am away from my scope at the moment. But the mangled data look the same as before in eTobey's recent screenshot (post #73); so the results appear unchanged when requesting data over the SCPI web interface.

[eTobey]

There are other ways to do such things when you get to know your scopes better. 
 
BIN files that can easily be converted to CSV with the onboard file convertor tool and SMB File Share can make the best use of the available connectivity.

So many features... i would be satisfied with less features, but then flawless working ones. Quality over quantitiy. 

[KungFuJosh]

So many features... i would be satisfied with less features, but then flawless working ones. Quality over quantitiy. 

Easy! Stop using the messed up features and pretend they don't exist. 😉

[eTobey]

Found an issue: Opposite gate gets set to screen border
When changing gate A, while gate B is outside of the screen (zoomed in on gate A), gate B gets set to the time postion at the border of the current screen.

Edit:
i thought its an obvious issue, and the description was sufficient to explain the issue, but it seems i was wrong, so i try different:

- Capture a waveform
- Set gate cursors at 10us and 100us
- Zoom in on cursor at 10us so that cursor at 100us is out of screen
- change  cursor from 10us to like 9.9us
- zoom out, and observe, that the other cursor is not at 100us anymore

[2N3055]

Found an issue: Opposite gate gets set to screen border
When changing gate A, while gate B is outside of the screen (zoomed in on gate A), gate B gets set to the time postion at the border of the current screen.

Another bug in your brain.
There is nothing after the end of the screen..
You cannot set cursor to data that doesn't exist.

[2N3055]

Also this SCPI thing.

Stop saying SCPI bug.
SCPI works perfectly when used as SCPI.

Problem is that web interface cannot handle lots of data.
It is not supposed to be used to grab 2MB of buffer data, but for simple commands and status.

It might be a Java component problem in a browser.

Will report but grabbing data from scope this way is abusing poor browser.

[KungFuJosh]

Also this SCPI thing.

Stop saying SCPI bug.
SCPI works perfectly when used as SCPI.

Problem is that web interface cannot handle lots of data.
It is not supposed to be used to grab 2MB of buffer data, but for simple commands and status.

It might be a Java component problem in a browser.

Will report but grabbing data from scope this way is abusing poor browser.

Exactly why I suggested a "more experienced" user try SCPI commands in something besides a browser.

[eTobey]

Another bug in your brain.
There is nothing after the end of the screen..
You cannot set cursor to data that doesn't exist.

That does not sound, that you tried it yourself, but i am in good faith, that you just did not understand, so i updated my post.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5520580/#msg5520580

[ebastler]

Exactly why I suggested a "more experienced" user try SCPI commands in something besides a browser.

electronics hobbyist has done that, a few posts above. It seems clear that only the SCPI-over-HTTP (if that is how it's done for the web interface?) is affected.

[eTobey]

Also this SCPI thing.

Stop saying SCPI bug.
SCPI works perfectly when used as SCPI.

Problem is that web interface cannot handle lots of data.
It is not supposed to be used to grab 2MB of buffer data, but for simple commands and status.

It might be a Java component problem in a browser.

Will report but grabbing data from scope this way is abusing poor browser.

Exactly why I suggested a "more experienced" user try SCPI commands in something besides a browser.

I can confirm, that SCPI works better with python.

[KungFuJosh]

Exactly why I suggested a "more experienced" user try SCPI commands in something besides a browser.

electronics hobbyist has done that, a few posts above. It seems clear that only the SCPI-over-HTTP (if that is how it's done for the web interface?) is affected.

It's not a bug of the scope, it's limitations of the web browser as explained well above by 2N3055.

I can confirm, that SCPI works better with python.

Nice work!

[Furna]

It's not a bug of the scope, it's limitations of the web browser as explained well above by 2N3055.

Well, I still do not own the scope yet but ...

I would think twice before blaming a modern browser; Java is not used in browsers since a few years; Javascript is a completely different beast.
Browsers *are* capable of handling a lot of data; just open Youtube home page and continue to scroll down.
You can watch a 4K movie and that could be a 100Mbit/sec of data.
It's the interaction between the web server and the browser and I would say the web server was not designed with that scope in mind.

I totaly agree for some kind of jobs Python could be better but if I am not wrong here we are speaking about 78 byte?
78byte are 78 characters ... I will not count the characters illustrated in eTobey's post but I guess they are more than 78.
Even 78kB is a small amount; a modern web page's HTML is more tahn that.

IMHO issue should be definitely investigated.

[ebastler]

It's not a bug of the scope, it's limitations of the web browser as explained well above by 2N3055.

That was not an explanation but a hypothesis, and an unfounded one. If I recall correclty, when I reproduced the problem a month (?) ago I could do that with very small datasets, just a dozen bytes or so.

[KungFuJosh]

It's not a bug of the scope, it's limitations of the web browser as explained well above by 2N3055.

That was not an explanation but a hypothesis, and an unfounded one. If I recall correclty, when I reproduced the problem a month (?) ago I could do that with very small datasets, just a dozen bytes or so.

Read what he said again:

Problem is that web interface cannot handle lots of data.
It is not supposed to be used to grab 2MB of buffer data, but for simple commands and status.

How does your small dataset test NOT support the hypothesis that the browser console is the issue? Problem with too much data, no problem with smaller data sets.

Try connecting with SCPI through any other means than the web browser and see if you have trouble. The browser console wasn't designed for the use you're trying. Could it be improved? Probably. That doesn't make it a bug if you're trying to use it beyond the capabilities it was designed for. Everybody knows the SCPI web console was only created to "improve" the scopes. 😉😉

[2N3055]

It's not a bug of the scope, it's limitations of the web browser as explained well above by 2N3055.

Well, I still do not own the scope yet but ...

I would think twice before blaming a modern browser; Java is not used in browsers since a few years; Javascript is a completely different beast.
Browsers *are* capable of handling a lot of data; just open Youtube home page and continue to scroll down.
You can watch a 4K movie and that could be a 100Mbit/sec of data.
It's the interaction between the web server and the browser and I would say the web server was not designed with that scope in mind.

I totaly agree for some kind of jobs Python could be better but if I am not wrong here we are speaking about 78 byte?
78byte are 78 characters ... I will not count the characters illustrated in eTobey's post but I guess they are more than 78.
Even 78kB is a small amount; a modern web page's HTML is more tahn that.

IMHO issue should be definitely investigated.

If you want to play with browsers capabilities you can do that without scope.
This is tangential discussion about mating rituals of Africa swallows..

eTobey claims something is wrong with SCPI on the scope.
There is not, because if you use propper SCPI client, there are no errors.

So problem is with SCPI client component on the web page.

And while technically that is a bug (in web interface) that is definitely abuse of simple SCPI component that was designed to be simple interface for simple commands.. It is used for getting scope ID, viewing or installing options and such.

Using that small window to get data from the scope is not very smart or usefull on many levels.
Firstly, it was never meant to be used for that.
Second, why on earth you want to do that?
You by hand type in SCPI command and then you copy result to clipboard and paste it into some editor to save to disk... Err, no thank you.

If you want to pull SCPI data you pull it directly into your program. Use SCPI library (one of many) from NI Visa (officially supported) to many Python direct ones...
If you want to download data to your PC, map a folder on your PC to a scope (server and client is supported) and dump data directly as a file to a disk....

Do not make a mistake, it will be reported and if they can debug/improve/upgrade (choose your favorite word, so nobody feels excluded) they will. But this is not very big problem. It is not mainstream use of this component. So don't expect priority overnight fix.

If some SCPI expert here (there seem to be many) test deeper and finds real problems when SCPI is used with proper SCPI client on other side, please let us know.

[eTobey]

UI lags big time:

Its the second time today, that the UI started to become laggy to the point, you had to restart the scope. Might not be introduced with the new firmware, but just in case, i post my setup, and want to make others aware of it.

[Furna]

My last post on this specific topic.
Let me state again: blaming the browser without further investigation is just gambling; browsers are updated every few *days* by big (bigger than Siglent) organizations squashing bugs evry hour.
IMHO the bug is between the SCPI engine and the web server; or in the webserver itself. Both components are *inside* the scope and are not updated if nobody signal Siglent about a bug.
I understand the bug will be signaled to Siglent.
End of my post
;-)

[2N3055]

My last post on this specific topic.
Let me state again: blaming the browser without further investigation is just gambling; browsers are updated every few *days* by big (bigger than Siglent) organizations squashing bugs evry hour.
IMHO the bug is between the SCPI engine and the web server; or in the webserver itself. Both components are *inside* the scope and are not updated if nobody signal Siglent about a bug.
I understand the bug will be signaled to Siglent.
End of my post
;-)

Yes, the web component is LOADED from the scope. But COMMUNICATES from and LIVES (executes) in browser on your PC.
As it is, it is a remote connected client to SCPI server.

So it is NOT a SCPI server bug but that specific webpage component bug.
That is what I'm saying.

Nobody is blaming the BROWSER itself (as in Chrome or Edge...).

Since you seem to be very committed to very fine detail you should appreciate that I'm just trying to be very specific as to what the problem actually is.
In the end without good, correct and accurate specification of error there is no correct fix, but searching for a problem in a wrong place...

[eTobey]

So it is NOT a SCPI server bug but that specific webpage component bug.

I have analysed the traffic. The result says something different. The browser shows exactly what is coming in over LAN.

[2N3055]

So it is NOT a SCPI server bug but that specific webpage component bug.

I have analysed the traffic. The result says something different. The browser shows exactly what is coming in over LAN.

Are you always this obnoxious?
Who cares !!
It is a bug only with trying to get that data from web interface. Siglent will figure it out. I don't plan to analyze it in any detail. Not my job.

Your bombastic claim (as all your claims are, with titles like some stupid Youtube channel trying to get attention) is "SCPI BUG !!!"
It is not..

SCPI does not have problems when used via NI VISA as is officially supported by manufacturer (2000 individual packets ):

[eTobey]

You cant just acknowledge the facts, cant you? There is no need to get upset about facts... 

[2N3055]

You cant just acknowledge the facts, cant you? There is no need to get upset about facts... 

And why don't you go back and change every single stupid testament you did that was proven wrong, and mark it as such?
You won't because that is what you do. Say something bombastic and wrong, but when proven wrong you insist we don't talk about it anymore.

Inflammatory statement stays, and no rebuke. Protracted arguing, and changing of subject, so you end up with some recognition that something you said was right. Then you use that to prove your initial statement was completely OK, while the core statement was completely wrong.. People read and it seems all is true...
This is all you do all the time.

"I saw a pink elephant, eating a grass!! Here is the photo."
"You are wrong! It is not pink! That is just plain elephant."
"What are you saying, I'm wrong? You say I lied that I saw elephant eating grass? Prove it!!"
"Prove what? You lying? Prove there was an elephant? Prove it was not pink? What?" Fact stays it is not pink."
"How do you know that it was not pink? Prove it!"
"Ok here is the photo. Clearly shows it was not pink."
"But is eating the grass like I said. Why don't you admit it..:"
 

This is how it feels talking to you.
 

[KungFuJosh]

You cant just acknowledge the facts, cant you? There is no need to get upset about facts... 

127.0.0.1 is local host, meaning, if that was shown in your browser console, that was occurring on your PC/browser. If it was the scope, it would have shown the scope's IP address.

2N3055 is correct, and you should try to read his statements again and improve your understanding of them.

You also need to understand, again as 2N3055 said, the SCPI part of the Siglent web console was intended for very basic use like getting scope ID, or applying licenses. It was not intended for data acquisition.

[eTobey]

127.0.0.1 is local host, meaning, if that was shown in your browser console, that was occurring on your PC/browser. If it was the scope, it would have shown the scope's IP address.

Nope it was the html response with code 200 from the scope. 

That localhost ip is part of the message from the scope.

Code: [Select]

{"success":true}\r\n{"retCount":1}\r\n{"cmdrslt":"uart,rx,rx_err;\nuart,tx,tx_err;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0d1","from":"127.0.0.1"}\r\n

[2N3055]

127.0.0.1 is local host, meaning, if that was shown in your browser console, that was occurring on your PC/browser. If it was the scope, it would have shown the scope's IP address.

Nope it was the html response with code 200 from the scope. 

That localhost ip is part of the message from the scope.

Code: [Select]

{"success":true}\r\n{"retCount":1}\r\n{"cmdrslt":"uart,rx,rx_err;\nuart,tx,tx_err;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n,Over Length;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x00,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0x80,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0,;\n0xC0d1","from":"127.0.0.1"}\r\n

It doesn't matter. It actually proves message comes from a sort of SCPI client. Which has the bug, no matter where it sits and is a part of Web server remote suite, wherever it sits while running.

It is not problem with SCPI server on scope , but something to do with Web remote interface code.
Like I repeated many times. You were wrong and called a wrong bug.

Like we said many times (really many times) before, if you find a suspicious behavior or something that looks like a problem, you would look much smarter to cautiously report is as such: a potential problem. Then other people can either teach you what you did wrong (if you did), or if you did stumble on some real problem they can help recreate problem. And if that happens then you stumbled upon a bug. And then we have something to report, which already has proof and is unequivocally an issue. And as such they pretty much go directly into "fix queue"..

[eTobey]

Bug: gate changed issue:
Wrote this one before, but it was denied/ignored, so here is a video:

[eTobey]

Issue:
Grid not aligned. While trying to reproduce this on the normal channel, SCPI interface the scope crashed.

[nanopico]

Can you post your "test SCPI.py" file?

[eTobey]

I could now reproduce the issue with the Z4 "channel". The grid is not aligned, and this happens, when changing the offset of C4, or the position Z4.

Also i could reproduce the scope crashing. It seems to be caused by sending commands to quickly.

Code: [Select]

import telnetlib
import time

class POP3Telnet:
    def __init__(self, host, port):
        self.tel = telnetlib.Telnet(host, port)
        #self.lese_daten()
    def close(self):
        self.tel.close()
    def lese_daten(self):
        return self.tel.read_until(b"\n", 2)
    def kommando(self, kom):
        self.tel.write(("{}\r\n".format(kom)).encode())
        time.sleep(0.02) # May need adjusting
        return
        
host = "type your ip here"
port = 5024
user = ""
passwd = ""

gate_1A = -35
gate_1B = 35

gate_2A = 400
gate_2B = 8000

#formatString = "FUNC4:POS -{}E-3"
formatString = "CHAN4:OFFS -{}E-3"

measureWaitTime = 0.010 #0.005 is good
frameChangeWaitTime = 0.001

pop = POP3Telnet(host, port)

# Read and discard useless Messages
pop.lese_daten().decode()
pop.lese_daten().decode()


pop.kommando("decode:list2:result?")
for x in range(0,5000, 100):
    print(formatString.format(x))
    pop.kommando(formatString.format(x))
    time.sleep(0.3)

pop.kommando("QUIT")
pop.close()

[2N3055]

I could now reproduce the issue with the Z4 "channel". The grid is not aligned, and this happens, when changing the offset of C4, or the position Z4.

What is the issue ?
What grid is not aligned?
What exactly are you doing?
Video is not helpful at all.

[eTobey]

What is the issue ?
What grid is not aligned?
What exactly are you doing?
Video is not helpful at all.

Read and watch again. Or just say this is not an issue, as you always do. 

[shapirus]

I'm not getting it either.
I'm seeing a video where something is happening. M'kay.

[2N3055]

What is the issue ?
What grid is not aligned?
What exactly are you doing?
Video is not helpful at all.

Read and watch again. Or just say this is not an issue, as you always do. 

Okay....

[ebastler]

Read and watch again.

I'm in agreement with 2N3055 here. I have watched the video several times, and have read the accompanying post too -- the latter was quick, since "grid not aligned" is all you wrote. That really does not enable me to figure out what you did on the scope, what the expected response was, and what you observed instead.

I have commented before that videos don't work for me as a bug report. I have no idea what to watch out for. All I can see here is grid lines moving while the axis labels stay put. Which one is right? What's happening on the controls? Or can this only be achieved via rapid SCPI commands?

Detailed commentary is really needed, either in writing (with reference to time stamps in the video) or spoken as part of the video. Maybe slow down the video to allow enough time for spoken comments.

[newbrain]

All I can see here is grid lines moving while the axis labels stay put.

That's a (quite nice, if you ask me) configuration option: one can choose a static grid (where labels change according to offset at a given scale) or fixed axis and a moving grid with fixed value labels.
The boy still cries wolf, might be the usual chihuahua puppy.

[eTobey]

I dont get it, why you dont get it. But i also dont get it, why i didnt catch that one way earlier. 

If an axis shows values, then these values typically have a corresponding line in the graph. So the "numbers go with the lines". Think about that: whats the point in having these lines, if you dont know their values?

That's a (quite nice, if you ask me) configuration option: one can choose a static grid (where labels change according to offset at a given scale) or fixed axis and a moving grid with fixed value labels.
The boy still cries wolf, might be the usual chihuahua puppy.

Have you actually watched the video youself, or do you only repeat what others said about me? It looks like the two features are mixed together here.

[eTobey]

"Issue" frequency measurment wrong on zooming out:

When zooming out, the measurement of the frequency yields wrong values.

I tried to see what is wrong with the Siglent SDG1032 (or what i have set up in it), but the Siglent SDS800X was jealous and demanded more attention and presenting me this:

The frequency that is measured at the bottom should stay the same IMHO, when zooming out.

[newbrain]

Have you actually watched the video youself, or do you only repeat what others said about me?

I have the luck (?) to be human, and not a parrot, so of course I have watched the video*.

Part of this luck is that humans have developed this very powerful tool, called "language", enabling us to convey sophisticated concepts in a - sometimes - concise and clear way.

A 10 seconds video with no explanation is not that.

This has probably been told you a number of times, but a decent way to report suspected bugs is:

• A slogan, to help set the topic.
  E.g., "Triggering on both edges shows garbled trace"
• What I was doing, including any particular setup (no, not the .xml, which might help in some case as additional info) but a description.
  E.g, "I was observing a square wave at 1 MHz, 2 Vpp from my AWG, connected with a direct BNC cable".
• The, and this is fundamental, steps to reproduce the suspected problem.
  E.g, "I changed triggering from rising edge to both edges"
• What was the expected result.
  E.g, "I expected the scope to show two strong, almost uninterrupted,  lines at the top and bottom, and faint lines where the transitions occur"
• What is the actual result.
  E.g., "The display contains many horizontal lines at unexpected levels"
• A suspected cause, if known.
• Possible workarounds, if any

It looks like the two features are mixed together here.

Now I see it. Of course I cannot reproduce it, that's why step 3 is paramount.

And, of course, you did it again while I was writing this. At least there's a slogan and a hint on how to reproduce, which makes it much easier to give an answer.

"Issue" frequency measurment wrong on zooming out:

When zooming out, the measurement of the frequency yields wrong values.

Nyquist. You are severely undersampling the signal. Trace measurements work on the samples, not on the actual analog signal. See chapter 18.12 in the User Manual, but in addition to that I would suggest some introductory text to digital signal processing (Lyons? Is that still around?), I have the impression you miss some of the fundamentals.

* I don't always do that - but I don't answer if I haven't.
You were, for reasons I don't honestly remember, in my ignore list long before you started the barrage of posts on Rigol and Siglent scopes and AWGs. I still open some from time to time, according to the reactions and my willingness to be entertained.

[2N3055]

"Issue" frequency measurment wrong on zooming out:

When zooming out, the measurement of the frequency yields wrong values.

I tried to see what is wrong with the Siglent SDG1032 (or what i have set up in it), but the Siglent SDS800X was jealous and demanded more attention and presenting me this:

The frequency that is measured at the bottom should stay the same IMHO, when zooming out.

Stop using stupid names for scope function.

This one I blame Dave for. He is using it all the time and he is wrong.

You are not "zooming out". You are not using Zoom function. There, there is the button on the scope...

You are CHANGING TIME BASE.
Whether you are changing it on stopped or running scope it is same. It is called time base. Knob that is called Horizontal, changes "Time base".
That means you are changing amount and place of data scope is showing on the screen and analysing.

And I just love how you are deliberately not showing any settings on the bottom of the scope's screen, so we cannot tell you how settings are wrong.

So basically these videos are useless. They only show you are doing something. Nobody understands what.

[Furna]

I wrote before "My last post on this topic"; I know I am contractidting myself 

It doesn't matter. It actually proves message comes from a sort of SCPI client. Which has the bug, no matter where it sits and is a part of Web server remote suite, wherever it sits while running.

The client that is *inside* the OS of the scope and connects to the SCPI server and pass the data to the Web Server ... still worth to report and investigation.
Here I am speculating: indeed that "127.0.0.1" makes me *guess* the SCPI server disconnected the client; that doesn't mean the SCPI server is buggy ...
Without further investigation from the inside it is not possible to say.
For what I am concerned Siglent can just put a note in the manual and in the web page to indicate that the web interface is ment to just run configuration commands and nothing else.

It is not problem with SCPI server on scope , but something to do with Web remote interface code.
Like I repeated many times. You were wrong and called a wrong bug.

Bug or issue ... whatever. End users claim something is not working, no matter how they call it. Bug report is compiled by you @2N3055
I agree details on how to reproduce the issue are needed but why loose time trying to change end user attitude?

Like we said many times (really many times) before, if you find a suspicious behavior or something that looks like a problem, you would look much smarter to cautiously report is as such: a potential problem. Then other people can either teach you what you did wrong (if you did), or if you did stumble on some real problem they can help recreate problem. And if that happens then you stumbled upon a bug. And then we have something to report, which already has proof and is unequivocally an issue. And as such they pretty much go directly into "fix queue"..

Agree.

Nobody is blaming the BROWSER itself (as in Chrome or Edge...).

It's not a bug of the scope, it's limitations of the web browser as explained well above by 2N3055.

If you remember my first post quoted KungFuJosh not 2N3055

   

[2N3055]

I wrote before "My last post on this topic"; I know I am contractidting myself 

Yes "someone is wrong on Internet..:"..
Guilty too....

Yes of course it will be investigated. And if the behaviour is by design then in manual it will be noted.
My comments are that nobody ever even tried to "abuse" this poor little window this way.

And SCPI server is working well, and several people (including myself) showed that is works when you use NI VISA which is manufacturer officially supported way to push/pull SCPI data.

As for setting things straight, that is something we NEED to do.
Otherwise loud idiots opinion is the only one you can hear...
Someone comes in 3 months later and finds 750 posts about bugs and decides that something is buggy.
While there are 15 bugs out of which 14 are already fixed in record time.
The rest of it is just a person posting nonsense.

Argument that "people can think for themselves" is not valid.
Once the number of  false postings reaches 1000 nobody reads anymore.
They just think "where is the smoke, there is the fire" and start eating propaganda.
Doubt and mistrust was sown...

And truth was lost along the way, becoming irrelevant.

[shapirus]

My comments are that nobody ever even tried to "abuse" this poor little window this way.

...which was the responsibility of the QA team at Siglent ;)

Someone comes in 3 months later and finds 750 posts about bugs and decides that something is buggy.
While there are 15 bugs out of which 14 are already fixed in record time.
The rest of it is just a person posting nonsense.

This is what you're getting when there is no industry-standard issue tracker to organize bug reports properly.

[Furna]

Yes "someone is wrong on Internet..:"..
Guilty too....

I do not feel guilty ... should I?

Yes of course it will be investigated. And if the behaviour is by design then in manual it will be noted.
My comments are that nobody ever even tried to "abuse" this poor little window this way.

Thank you for reporting; regarding "abuse" it seems someone was able to reproduce the issue even with few bytes of data. Is that also an "abuse"?

And SCPI server is working well, and several people (including myself) showed that is works when you use NI VISA which is manufacturer officially supported way to push/pull SCPI data.

Well, SCPI is a standard; if the server claims to be SCPI compliant then it should work with whatever client claims to be SCPI compliant.
Moreover, this is still an "advanced hobbyst" grade scope ... someone, for whatever reason, could be uncomfortable installing NI VISA.

[eTobey]

I never thought that such a simple issue can create that much confusion. I only change the bloody offset, and the signal or any other settings (probably) is of no importance whatsoever!

Yes the bottom is clipped, but considering this as deliberately is just stupid. 

Using the words "zooming" or "changing the timebase" is a slight mistake, that should not make it so much harder to understand.

If the math function does math on less points that have been aqcuired, then it should be clearly shown. But is it shown? It just shows "wrong" values in my case. 

My comments are that nobody ever even tried to "abuse" this poor little window this way.

...which was the responsibility of the QA team at Siglent

It seems like its not a team, but just one person... 

[2N3055]

I never thought that such a simple issue can create that much confusion. I only change the bloody offset, and the signal or any other settings (probably) is of no importance whatsoever!

Yes the bottom is clipped, but considering this as deliberately is just stupid. 

Using the words "zooming" or "changing the timebase" is a slight mistake, that should not make it so much harder to understand.

If the math function does math on less points that have been aqcuired, then it should be clearly shown. But is it shown? It just shows "wrong" values in my case. 

My comments are that nobody ever even tried to "abuse" this poor little window this way.

...which was the responsibility of the QA team at Siglent

It seems like its not a team, but just one person... 

Everything you do wrong is deliberate after being warned hundreds of times.

Using the "wrong words" is not the problem. We call different things differently because the are different thing. That is why they deserve different name. Meaning you call it a zoom means you change visual representation into which part of the picture you are looking at. In this case the scope capture. Nothing else changed, just what you are looking at. When changing time base, you are changing rudimentary settings of the scope, that changes how scope behaves.

My comment wasn't to correct your English. It was to point you that by calling it that you presume behaviour that is not correct.

As for WRONG math, since you repeatedly shown you don't understand squat and don't listen to what you are thought, my money is on you, again, doing something wrong.

[Aldo22]

Whether you are changing it on stopped or running scope it is same. It is called time base.

I don't quite understand that.
It's not the same with my cheap scope.

If I change the time base on a stopped scope, I don't get "infinitely" more detail (depending on the memory depth).
Basically, I only stretch what I have captured.
I don't think the term “zoom” is so inappropriate.

If the scope runs while changing the time base, I get more detail.

Is it different with more expensive scopes or am I not understanding this correctly?

[eTobey]

Steps to reproduce the grid alignement error (started from factory default):

- switch on axis labels (Display -> menu -> Axis label setting -> "on"
- choose Axis "moving" mode (in the same menu)
- hit zoom button (magnifying glass)
- tap upper window, and set 2V/div of vertical scale
- tap lower window and set 20mV/div of vertical scale
- use vertical adjustment knob in the full range and observe, how the position of the lines relative to the numbers changes.

Not giving details about a signal is deliberatly, because its irrelevant. 

[ebastler]

- switch on axis labels (Display -> menu -> Axis label setting -> "on"
- choose Axis "moving" mode (in the same menu)
- hit zoom button (magnifying glass)
- tap upper window, and set 2V/div of vertical scale
- tap lower window and set 20mV/div of vertical scale
- use vertical adjustment knob in the full range and observe, how the position of the lines relative to the numbers changes.

Thanks for the clear step-by-step instructions. I can reproduce the effect now that you mentioned the "moving axis labels" mode -- I don't think that was ever spcified before, and it's a mode I had never used.

Yes, that looks like a glitch in the UI: The grid lines and axis label should shift in sync, but do move at a slightly different rate. Not something that hurst me personally, since I'd rather use the fixed label and grid positions anyway. But that display mode nust have its uses, so it should work correctly.

[eTobey]

I now failed to reproduce the frequency measure issue with a 1.5MHz fixed frequency. It does show "***" as i would expect it. I dont know what the difference here exactly is.

I do not investigate this issue further for now, because no one else really tries to help (actually use the scope). Everyone is just telling me i am an idiot. Keep this bug then and happly spend hours or work, because you got confused by such "issues". 

I will now pack my bags for my holidays. 

I can answer while on my trip down the Côte d’Azur and to spain, but i will have no access to my scope for 3 months then! If you really are interested in getting things fixed, ask me now, but do so in a proffessional way. 

[tautech]

Whether you are changing it on stopped or running scope it is same. It is called time base.

I don't quite understand that.
It's not the same with my cheap scope.

If I change the time base on a stopped scope, I don't get "infinitely" more detail (depending on the memory depth).
Basically, I only stretch what I have captured.
I don't think the term “zoom” is so inappropriate.

If the scope runs while changing the time base, I get more detail.

Is it different with more expensive scopes or am I not understanding this correctly?

It does get confusing when others use zoom when these DSO's have a Zoom mode.

Then we need be very clear which we are referring to.

[2N3055]

Whether you are changing it on stopped or running scope it is same. It is called time base.

I don't quite understand that.
It's not the same with my cheap scope.

If I change the time base on a stopped scope, I don't get "infinitely" more detail (depending on the memory depth).
Basically, I only stretch what I have captured.
I don't think the term “zoom” is so inappropriate.

If the scope runs while changing the time base, I get more detail.

Is it different with more expensive scopes or am I not understanding this correctly?

That is EXACTLY the problem.
When stopped, you are still changing the Time base. But sampling rate stays the same as it was at the time of capture.
You also have limited amount of data as captured. You cannot expand time base and see things outside what was in the memory when you pressed stop.

When running sample rate will change, depending on amount of memory.
Also, amount of data and time interval captured will follow and new captures will capture different data interval.

Zoom OTOH only changes which part of the data you are looking at.

Time base is scope data capture parameter, zoom mode is visual magnification function. They could be used to see portion of data but they are functionally different. And that comes with certain behaviour differences..


 

[Aldo22]

@tautech
@2N3055

I assume "zoom mode" means the feature in the attached screenshot.
I hadn't even thought of that. In my manual it is called “Dual Window Display” but the button is actually labeled “Zoom”.
I now realize that the term is reserved for this.

Thank you.

[2N3055]

I now failed to reproduce the frequency measure issue with a 1.5MHz fixed frequency. It does show "***" as i would expect it. I dont know what the difference here exactly is.

I do not investigate this issue further for now, because no one else really tries to help (actually use the scope). Everyone is just telling me i am an idiot. Keep this bug then and happly spend hours or work, because you got confused by such "issues". 

I will now pack my bags for my holidays. 

I can answer while on my trip down the Côte d’Azur and to spain, but i will have no access to my scope for 3 months then! If you really are interested in getting things fixed, ask me now, but do so in a proffessional way. 

Nobody says you are an idiot.
You are simply rushing to report something without proper investigation and clear explanation of how to reproduce.
First problem (not investigating) leads to many wrong conclusions and false alarms on your side.
Not explaining well all the steps leads to others cannot reproduce anything.
So most of your posts end up being hot air.

To the point, thank you for finally explaining the "scale offset problem" as you call it.

That takes care of problem 2.

As for proper investigation, after you explained what you are doing, it took me few minutes to confirm there is a bug.
But, investigating properly, I quickly realized that it is not a bug with zoom mode at all.
Same effect can be seen if you simply put channel at 20mV and create large offset of 3-4V.
Will report.

[eTobey]

First problem (not investigating) leads to many wrong conclusions and false alarms on your side.

Many? Are you sh*** me? Those were dozends hundrets!

So most of your posts end up being hot air.

That is your limited view, because your to blind to see, or just deny that there are bugs.  That definition of fanboy i had in my signature would fit here...
And yes there were a few  "hot air ballon posts" but mine could not fit people like some of yours could.

But, investigating properly, I quickly realized that it is not a bug with zoom mode at all.
Same effect can be seen if you simply put channel at 20mV and create large offset of 3-4V.

Of course i was on the way to investigate further, but the scope revealed another bug to me: it crashed when using my SCPI script. (now tell me it was my script that was the problem  )

Why the fu** do almost all bugs haunt me? You guys are not really using it, are you?

[eTobey]

It does get confusing when others use zoom when these DSO's have a Zoom mode.

Then we need be very clear which we are referring to.

I usually use the words "zoom mode" when i refer to the zoom mode.

The word timebase i would only use when actually capturing with it, because changing the timebase would change the samplerate (the underlying base). While zooming in, on a captured trace would not. It would just "resize" (zoom) what is already there! It would not change the timebase while it is stopped, since the sampled points are not changed.

[eTobey]

So most of your posts end up being hot air.

Just another hot air post...

Too much digits. (the last one is never used anyway)

Edit:
Funny: after i found this "issue" a few weeks ago, i just found more of that nonsense. (second pic).

[2N3055]

So most of your posts end up being hot air.

Just another hot air post...

Too much digits. (the last one is never used anyway)

Edit:
Funny: after i found this "issue" a few weeks ago, i just found more of that nonsense. (second pic).

 

[shapirus]

Well that's legit. It's a UI/UX issue. Those extra digits are not only useless, but, in the first case, also harmful, as they seriously spoil readability.

[ebastler]

Too much digits. (the last one is never used anyway)

That's pretty awkward indeed.

The strange thing with Siglent's number formatting is that someone put some serious effort into it. The number of decimal places varies, depending on how many digits are required to distinguish adjacent label values. (I.e. the further you zoom in, the more decimal places are added.)

But then they always append two (!) extra zeros which are totally redundant. Pity!

[Martin72]

The grace of late acquisition...
In the beginning, the labeling was up to six digits after the decimal point.
Complete nonsense, ONE digit behind the decimal point is completely sufficient for axis labeling, or preferably no digits behind it at all.
I think labeling is correct and important, but only as a rough guide.
Cursors and measured values should be displayed accurately, so there should be digits after the decimal point, nowhere else.

[electronics hobbyist]

Steps to reproduce the grid alignement error (started from factory default):

- switch on axis labels (Display -> menu -> Axis label setting -> "on"
- choose Axis "moving" mode (in the same menu)
- hit zoom button (magnifying glass)
- tap upper window, and set 2V/div of vertical scale
- tap lower window and set 20mV/div of vertical scale
- use vertical adjustment knob in the full range and observe, how the position of the lines relative to the numbers changes.

Not giving details about a signal is deliberatly, because its irrelevant. 

Due to some reasons, I am currently unable to access YouTube, so welcome this form of problem feedback very much.

[electr_peter]

There is a bug with vertical zoom functionality as described in topic Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's. Screenshots describing situation are in a linked post.

SDS800X HD in zoom mode with Fixed Offset for Vertical Ref behaves strangely (1.1.3.6/3.8.12 FW) Utility > Menu > System Setting > Reference Pos > Vertical Ref [Fixed Position/Fixed Offset]

Setup - square wave 0V/3V input signal, edge trigger at 0.3V. Make signal full screen, then enable zoom mode and try to focus on the very top part of square wave. With vertical reference set to "Fixed Offset" zooming vertically "moves down" zoom box in level (!) and requires vertical offset adjustment.

Is it expected behavior? I don't see how this is useful.
IMO Vertical Ref option should not affect zoom mode at all and zoom mode should work as it currently does with "Fixed Position" setting.

The same issue remains with the newest FW 1.1.3.8.

Added screenshots (with descriptions) of the vertical zoom in Fixed Offset and Fixed Position Vertical Ref modes. Screenshots show a sequence of zoom ins and manual offset adjustments, trying to get to the top part of square wave. Observe position of zoom box in top part of the screen - clearly Fixed Offset has some issues while Fixed Position works.

Also, I am not sure I like the way scaling of Reference waveforms works while not in zoom mode (Vertical Ref does not affect Reference waveforms), but at least it is not buggy.

[ttelectronic]

Just curious if this thread is still being maintained? There is a firmware that was released a month ago.  SDS800X HD Firmware_V1.1.3.8 (Release Date 06.28.24 )

I think there are still some bugs left. =)

[tautech]

Just curious if this thread is still being maintained? There is a firmware that was released a month ago.  SDS800X HD Firmware_V1.1.3.8 (Release Date 06.28.24 )

I think there are still some bugs left. =)

Please report them in detail with supporting screenshots (not photos !) and detailed explanation of the issue and suggested remedy.
TIA

[2N3055]

Just curious if this thread is still being maintained? There is a firmware that was released a month ago.  SDS800X HD Firmware_V1.1.3.8 (Release Date 06.28.24 )

I think there are still some bugs left. =)

What do you mean? I don't understand.

Do you mean that you made a comprehensive analysis of all reported bugs (that were confirmed, not user errors) and that you tested all of them and found that not all are fixed?

Or you mean that you made a comprehensive analysis of all reported bugs (that were confirmed, not user errors) and that you compared it with release notes and found that not all are mentioned in notes as fixed?

Or you found something new you consider a bug?

Or some combination of all of the above?

Or you think that Siglent should release FW every 2 weeks?

You must make effort to better explain what you mean, please. Otherwise we don't understand and time is wasted, on all sides.

[ttelectronic]

Clearly, I'm in the wrong place - sorry to waste everyone's time, good luck.

[BillyO]

Clearly, I'm in the wrong place - sorry to waste everyone's time, good luck.

Not at all!

You just have to document the bug(s) you found.  They will then be presented to Siglent for consideration in a future release.

[2N3055]

Clearly, I'm in the wrong place - sorry to waste everyone's time, good luck.

[Martin72]

No desire to explain himself, instead a martyr's exit.
Not entirely unusual in the forums.

[watchmaker]

I moved this question to here.  I suspect it is more me or my unit than a true bug though.

I have an 804 upgraded to 824. Software1.1.3.8; OS 3.8.12.

When I recall a setup, either on a USB stick or from the internal memory, I get a "File Does not Exist" unless I first reset to Default setup.

utility>menu>save/recall>recall>filemanager>*.xml>recall^>"File Does Not Exist"

Use Default button and then repeat, *.xml loads from either source.  USB Stick on front or rear port.

After one sequence it works as advertised.

User error? Faulty unit?  Anyone else repeat this?

[tautech]

I moved this question to here.  I suspect it is more me or my unit than a true bug though.

I have an 804 upgraded to 824. Software1.1.3.8; OS 3.8.12.

When I recall a setup, either on a USB stick or from the internal memory, I get a "File Does not Exist" unless I first reset to Default setup.

utility>menu>save/recall>recall>filemanager>*.xml>recall^>"File Does Not Exist"

Use Default button and then repeat, *.xml loads from either source.  USB Stick on front or rear port.

After one sequence it works as advertised.

User error? Faulty unit?  Anyone else repeat this?

To save a Setup the Save button must be first set to save a xml/Setup file or use use the Save feature within File Manager when xml/Setup is set for the Save type.

Example attached: remove .txt file extension.

[watchmaker]

Tautech,

The issue is not saving; it is recalling.  I have to push the physical default button and then go thru the recall sequence I outlined above.

THANKS!!!

Can anyone replicate this using the sequence I described?  It could well be me or mine.  I have the work around, but it took me about 30 minutes to work out what was going on.

[KungFuJosh]

The issue is not saving; it is recalling.

Can you share the files you're trying to recall?

[watchmaker]

Can I do it tomorrow?

FWIW,  I can recall the exact same files after I reset via Default Button.  So I do not think it has to do with the files.  Also, to be clear, it does not matter if the file is on the local drive or the USB Stick, or if the USB stick is in the front or rear port.

Also, the second thing I did was to look at the xml files in wordpad and to scan the USB for issues.  Text was correct.

Something is going on with the recall icon that is one of the action options that comes up.

But, what I did NOT try, (you just made me think) and will tomorrow, is trying the sequence when there is no USB stick in the scope.

Thanks,

Dewey

[ttelectronic]

I honestly just simply wanted to know if this was still the right place to post these as the OP has not been updated since June 03. See attached, it's the best I can do, thanks.

[2N3055]

I honestly just simply wanted to know if this was still the right place to post these as the OP has not been updated since June 03. See attached, it's the best I can do, thanks.

Thank you for explanation. Welcome.
Yes this is the place.
That is very nice, detailed write up. Nice work.

I agree it is a bit confusing as it is.

[watchmaker]

OK.  This is in fact my File Manager (FM)

Below are some photos of the screen (cannot save screen shots of FM screens).

They show what happens when I attempt to load Default.xml from FM pre and post hard button default.i

Something happened to my local directory I believe.  (Possible Bad Operator as the IBM 360 used to say; which I took as a personal comment).

I will reload the new FW and see if that fixes things.  But what could I have done?

Loads Pre Hard Button Default




Hard Button Default


Loads Post Hard Button Default

[tautech]

OK.  This is in fact my File Manager (FM)

Below are some photos of the screen (cannot save screen shots of FM screens)

You can via the webserver screenshot feature.

[watchmaker]

OK.  This is in fact my File Manager (FM)

Below are some photos of the screen (cannot save screen shots of FM screens)

You can via the webserver screenshot feature.

THANKS.  But it turns out I am dangerous.  I reloaded the firmware and all is well. No idea what I did.

Thanks for sticking with me.

Regards,

Dewey

[MildInductor]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between the setup and reference save types on the SDS800X? From what I can gather, the setup save type captures all settings, but I am not sure how this differs to the reference save type. Also, what are path tips and path fade time?

Please see the attached images.

Thank you in advance.

[tautech]

Setup files are for preferred setups to configure the scope for specific tasks that you might have need for on recurring occasions.
Reference files are a record of previous waveform captures at specific settings to recall and compare current waveforms against.


Path tips are indication of Save success, configurable is several ways and with variable time of fade of the message.
You can't break anything mucking with these until you find what suits you best but the destination notification and a 3s fade message suits most best.

[tszaboo]

Whats the firmware update procedure?
Is it risky, can it brick your scope?

[tautech]

Whats the firmware update procedure?
Is it risky, can it brick your scope?

Simple via USB and the .ADS file from Siglent firmware download packages.
Done 100’s and never bricked a unit.

Latest for all SDS800X HD models is here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=74

[MildInductor]

Setup files are for preferred setups to configure the scope for specific tasks that you might have need for on recurring occasions.
Reference files are a record of previous waveform captures at specific settings to recall and compare current waveforms against.


Path tips are indication of Save success, configurable is several ways and with variable time of fade of the message.
You can't break anything mucking with these until you find what suits you best but the destination notification and a 3s fade message suits most best.

Thank you, I understand path tips and fade time now. Can you elaborate more about what setup files vs reference files actually store? To me it sounds like you are saying setup files stores all of the scope settings, and reference files store the captured waveform along with all of the scope settings? Correct me if I understand wrong.

[MildInductor]

I'm also wondering if there is a service manual for the SDS800X series? I can find one for my other Siglent products, but not this one.

[Martin72]

Also not yet available for 1000X HD and 3000X HD, the service manual usually comes later than the other documentation.

[MildInductor]

Oh ok, at least it sounds like there is one coming in the future. It is a nice change to have service manuals for anything these days!

[tautech]

Setup files are for preferred setups to configure the scope for specific tasks that you might have need for on recurring occasions.
Reference files are a record of previous waveform captures at specific settings to recall and compare current waveforms against.

Can you elaborate more about what setup files vs reference files actually store? To me it sounds like you are saying setup files stores all of the scope settings, and reference files store the captured waveform along with all of the scope settings? Correct me if I understand wrong.

Pretty much.

Here's a post where I use a Reference waveform to check other waveforms against:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/probe-into-probes-whats-up/msg4678768/#msg4678768

In that post we can also see how probing can affect the fidelity of a waveform....something we should always be aware of.....taking a measurement can affect the measurement !

[MildInductor]

Thank you for sharing that, I now understand. Do you have any idea of a timeline when the service manual might be coming out, or is it just sometime in the future?

[tautech]

Thank you for sharing that, I now understand. Do you have any idea of a timeline when the service manual might be coming out, or is it just sometime in the future?

This ^
In time we will get one, of that I am very sure.

[MildInductor]

 

[Kaylan]

I may have just found a bug and need help confirming it. Today i noticed that the beeping sound when pushing buttons/knobs on my scope will stop working after any of the knobs are turned. As long as you don't turn the knobs, the beeper works. Using the touch screen will not affect the beeping, only turning any of the knobs. Then the only way to get the beeping to work again is to reboot. Going to Utility - Menu - System Settings and cycling the beeper on and off will not restore the beeping sound. This is really bugging me... No pun intended.

[Furna]

Thank you for sharing that, I now understand. Do you have any idea of a timeline when the service manual might be coming out, or is it just sometime in the future?

This ^
In time we will get one, of that I am very sure.

The service manual is now available
https://www.siglenteu.com/resources/documents/digital-oscilloscopes/
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/17603/?tmstv=1726320027

[eTobey]

I may have just found a bug and need help confirming it. Today i noticed that the beeping sound when pushing buttons/knobs on my scope will stop working after any of the knobs are turned. As long as you don't turn the knobs, the beeper works. Using the touch screen will not affect the beeping, only turning any of the knobs. Then the only way to get the beeping to work again is to reboot. Going to Utility - Menu - System Settings and cycling the beeper on and off will not restore the beeping sound. This is really bugging me... No pun intended.

You said the B-Word... Did no one tell you that you cant use that word here? This is a perfect scope it has no flaws, and is very intuitive to use. 

[2N3055]

I may have just found a bug and need help confirming it. Today i noticed that the beeping sound when pushing buttons/knobs on my scope will stop working after any of the knobs are turned. As long as you don't turn the knobs, the beeper works. Using the touch screen will not affect the beeping, only turning any of the knobs. Then the only way to get the beeping to work again is to reboot. Going to Utility - Menu - System Settings and cycling the beeper on and off will not restore the beeping sound. This is really bugging me... No pun intended.

You said the B-Word... Did no one tell you that you cant use that word here? This is a perfect scope it has no flaws, and is very intuitive to use. 

Trolling again?
Why are you attacking a person for reporting something they think is a problem?

[Kaylan]

You said the B-Word... Did no one tell you that you cant use that word here? This is a perfect scope it has no flaws, and is very intuitive to use. 

Hmm 

Trolling again?
Why are you attacking a person for reporting something they think is a problem?

I wonder, is it a bug, or do i have a defective unit? I would really appreciate it if one of you fine gentlemen could fire up your scope and test it. If not, i'll just see myself out. I realize i'm in the SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware thread, and not the SDS800X HD Could You Test This For Me thread.

[Furna]

I wonder, is it a bug, or do i have a defective unit? I would really appreciate it if one of you fine gentlemen could fire up your scope and test it. If not, i'll just see myself out. I realize i'm in the SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware thread, and not the SDS800X HD Could You Test This For Me thread.

How could it be a defective unit? The beeper is working, the knobs are working ...


I confirm Kaylan finding.

Version: 1.1.3.8
Device: SDS824X HD

How to reproduce:
- enable beeper in System Settings
- veryfy the beeper is working (press a button i.e. zoom)
- turn Horizontal knowb
- verify the beeper is not working anymore (press a button i.e. zoom)

[Kaylan]

Version: 1.1.3.8
Device: SDS824X HD

I have the same version on the SDS812X HD. Seems like we have a valid bug on our hands. 

[2N3055]

I wonder, is it a bug, or do i have a defective unit? I would really appreciate it if one of you fine gentlemen could fire up your scope and test it. If not, i'll just see myself out. I realize i'm in the SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware thread, and not the SDS800X HD Could You Test This For Me thread.

Nothing wrong with politely asking for help. You did right. This is exactly how this works..

Funny thing, there is a bug here. Fact is that it should not beep at all when pressing keys.

Beep is for touch screen, and some time ago an intrusive beep was replaced with clicks similar to what you have on phones.
As a tactile feedback, which is not really needed for physical buttons or encoders.

None of the other touch Siglent ever make a sound when pressing on physical keys.

[tautech]

Version: 1.1.3.8
Device: SDS824X HD

I have the same version on the SDS812X HD. Seems like we have a valid bug on our hands.

Possible bug report and this ^^^ is what we always need when reporting such.

Yep, confirm this bug displays inconsistent beeper behaviour.
LOL, never noticed this one as don't require audible feedback when I change settings.

2N3055, do you wish to report this ?

[2N3055]

Version: 1.1.3.8
Device: SDS824X HD

I have the same version on the SDS812X HD. Seems like we have a valid bug on our hands.

Possible bug report and this ^^^ is what we always need when reporting such.

Yep, confirm this bug displays inconsistent beeper behaviour.
LOL, never noticed this one as don't require audible feedback when I change settings.

2N3055, do you wish to report this ?

I can.

[tautech]

Version: 1.1.3.8
Device: SDS824X HD

I have the same version on the SDS812X HD. Seems like we have a valid bug on our hands.

Possible bug report and this ^^^ is what we always need when reporting such.

Yep, confirm this bug displays inconsistent beeper behaviour.
LOL, never noticed this one as don't require audible feedback when I change settings.

2N3055, do you wish to report this ?

I can.

Actually, we should check other models too to see if it's only particular to SDS800X HD.
Flick me mail and I have some you don't to confirm.

[eTobey]

I can not reproduce this bug. I got  814X 1.1.3.8... You guys must do something wrong.

[tautech]

I can not reproduce this bug. I got  814X 1.1.3.8... You guys I must do something wrong.

FTFY

I may have just found a bug and need help confirming it. Today i noticed that the beeping sound when pushing buttons/knobs on my scope will stop working after any of the knobs are turned. As long as you don't turn the knobs, the beeper works. Using the touch screen will not affect the beeping, only turning any of the knobs. Then the only way to get the beeping to work again is to reboot. Going to Utility - Menu - System Settings and cycling the beeper on and off will not restore the beeping sound. This is really bugging me... No pun intended.

See highlighted. 

[eTobey]

Just to clarify things:
- The word "beeping" means a sound, that is more like a click?
- This sound should be heard when pushing physical buttons?

I never hear a sound when pushing buttons.

Since buttons and knobs have physical feedback, than this is not an issue.

[tautech]

Just to clarify things:
- The word "beeping" means a sound, that is more like a click?

Yes.

- This sound should be heard when pushing physical buttons?

Yes immediately after boot if beeper/sound is set to ON.

I never hear a sound when pushing buttons.

This is not consistent to all models.

[ebastler]

I never hear a sound when pushing buttons.
Since buttons and knobs have physical feedback, than this is not an issue.

As 2N3055 explained, *not* hearing a sound from the physical buttons would be the desired behaviour. But I can reproduce the effect described by Kaylan and others on my SDS814X HD, and would be surprised if you cannot:

- In the System Settings, choose "Beeper ON".
- All taps on the touch screen will produce a short clicking noise -- fine.
- All presses of physical buttons will produce a longer beep -- not ok.
- After the first operation of an encoder knob, the buttons go silent, but the touch-screen clicks are still there. That's the desired behaviour.
- After shutting down and restarting the scope, the beeps are back (until the first encoder operation).

This doesn't affect me at all since I have the beeper disabled anyway. But it's a strange little bug -- makes you wonder what kind of internal state machine is at work there, and why...

[tautech]

I never hear a sound when pushing buttons.
Since buttons and knobs have physical feedback, than this is not an issue.

As 2N3055 explained, *not* hearing a sound from the physical buttons would be the desired behaviour. But I can reproduce the effect described by Kaylan and others on my SDS814X HD, and would be surprised if you cannot:

- In the System Settings, choose "Beeper ON".
- All taps on the touch screen will produce a short clicking noise -- fine.
- All presses of physical buttons will produce a longer beep -- not ok.
- After the first operation of an encoder knob, the buttons go silent, but the touch-screen clicks are still there. That's the desired behaviour.
- After shutting down and restarting the scope, the beeps are back (until the first encoder operation).

This doesn't affect me at all since I have the beeper disabled anyway. But it's a strange little bug -- makes you wonder what kind of internal state machine is at work there, and why...

Yep, but still a minor bug that brings inconsistency into the product range.

[2N3055]

I never hear a sound when pushing buttons.
Since buttons and knobs have physical feedback, than this is not an issue.

As 2N3055 explained, *not* hearing a sound from the physical buttons would be the desired behaviour. But I can reproduce the effect described by Kaylan and others on my SDS814X HD, and would be surprised if you cannot:

- In the System Settings, choose "Beeper ON".
- All taps on the touch screen will produce a short clicking noise -- fine.
- All presses of physical buttons will produce a longer beep -- not ok.
- After the first operation of an encoder knob, the buttons go silent, but the touch-screen clicks are still there. That's the desired behaviour.
- After shutting down and restarting the scope, the beeps are back (until the first encoder operation).

This doesn't affect me at all since I have the beeper disabled anyway. But it's a strange little bug -- makes you wonder what kind of internal state machine is at work there, and why...

Yep, but still a minor bug that brings inconsistency into the product range.

Reported..

[tautech]

I never hear a sound when pushing buttons.
Since buttons and knobs have physical feedback, than this is not an issue.

As 2N3055 explained, *not* hearing a sound from the physical buttons would be the desired behaviour. But I can reproduce the effect described by Kaylan and others on my SDS814X HD, and would be surprised if you cannot:

- In the System Settings, choose "Beeper ON".
- All taps on the touch screen will produce a short clicking noise -- fine.
- All presses of physical buttons will produce a longer beep -- not ok.
- After the first operation of an encoder knob, the buttons go silent, but the touch-screen clicks are still there. That's the desired behaviour.
- After shutting down and restarting the scope, the beeps are back (until the first encoder operation).

This doesn't affect me at all since I have the beeper disabled anyway. But it's a strange little bug -- makes you wonder what kind of internal state machine is at work there, and why...

Yep, but still a minor bug that brings inconsistency into the product range.

Reported..

Added to and with a feature request for more/additional options to manage Sounds.....

[awakephd]

Rob, if I recall correctly, sometimes you have advance notice that a firmware update is "coming real soon now." Is there any such indication at this time?

I'm not in any hurry, as everything is working as well as my newbie experience can use. Just curious ...

[tautech]

Rob, if I recall correctly, sometimes you have advance notice that a firmware update is "coming real soon now." Is there any such indication at this time?

Currently Mid Autumn festival so zip happening at HQ.

I don't so much get notice however as beta tester and private forum member I get to see and test beta firmware from time to time before it goes public.

Do you have a issue you wish to raise ?

[Kaylan]

Reported..

Thanks for taking care of that for us 2N3055.

Added to and with a feature request for more/additional options to manage Sounds.....

That would be nice, thanks.

Currently Mid Autumn festival so zip happening at HQ.

I don't so much get notice however as beta tester and private forum member I get to see and test beta firmware from time to time before it goes public.

Bummer, i cant wait to get a new firmware update. These scopes are relatively young and seem to have quite a few kinks to iron out.

Anyway, thanks to all of you for your help. I'm glad i could finally do something helpful with my scope. That is if you can consider getting rid of inconsistent beeping a form of help
I'll try to keep an eye on this thread, i'm here to help test if you need me.

[tautech]

Bummer, i cant wait to get a new firmware update. These scopes are relatively young and seem to have quite a few kinks to iron out.

Please list them, the firmware version, how they can be replicated and expected/preferred behaviour.

[2N3055]

Reported..

Thanks for taking care of that for us 2N3055.

Added to and with a feature request for more/additional options to manage Sounds.....

That would be nice, thanks.

Currently Mid Autumn festival so zip happening at HQ.

I don't so much get notice however as beta tester and private forum member I get to see and test beta firmware from time to time before it goes public.

Bummer, i cant wait to get a new firmware update. These scopes are relatively young and seem to have quite a few kinks to iron out.

Anyway, thanks to all of you for your help. I'm glad i could finally do something helpful with my scope. That is if you can consider getting rid of inconsistent beeping a form of help
I'll try to keep an eye on this thread, i'm here to help test if you need me.

Not a problem.

As for kinks, this particular model is cca 6 months old and already received 2 official releases which did "iron out" all known functional bugs known at this time. Since last update, no bugs were reported, this one about beeps is first one in few months time and is not even a real bug in a sense that it does not impact function, accuracy, safety or security..

Compared to Keysight, R&S Rigol and others that release unfinished scopes, I would say at this moment Siglent is actually industry leader in releasing scopes that are functionally complete at release and speed and effort of fixing important/critical issues if/when they occur...
Interesting, right?

As for Rob's comment "new FW is in making", well, new FW is always in the making....
That does not necessarily mean it's release is imminent or that it won't be respined and that particular version will never be released at all.
All in do time.

[eTobey]

...
Yep, but still a minor bug that brings inconsistency into the product range.

Reported..

Added to and with a feature request for more/additional options to manage Sounds.....

I wish the bugs issues that i found would get this amount of attention... 

Just ran into the bug, that the navigations (history) "continiues-go-through-the-list run" is stopped, when the menu automatically closes...  . I cant remember if that was one i already posted...

[awakephd]

Thanks! No, I have no issues to report. As I said, just curious. Thus far, the problems I have run into have all turned out to be user (newbie) error.

[eTobey]

... Thus far, the problems I have run into have all turned out to be user (newbie) error.

I wish i could say the same. But only a small portion was user error and i am left behind semi-satisfied. Allthough, some issues have been fixed, which i am be thankful for, others still exist.

[electr_peter]

Bug with vertical zoom persists - can anyone confirm this behavior? Is it the same on other Siglent scopes?
To reproduce bug, set "Vertical ref" to offset and try zooming in on the top of square wave. See attached picture of a results from zoomong in, behaviour is incorrect.

There is a bug with vertical zoom functionality as described in topic Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's. Screenshots describing situation are in a linked post.

SDS800X HD in zoom mode with Fixed Offset for Vertical Ref behaves strangely (1.1.3.6/3.8.12 FW) Utility > Menu > System Setting > Reference Pos > Vertical Ref [Fixed Position/Fixed Offset]

Setup - square wave 0V/3V input signal, edge trigger at 0.3V. Make signal full screen, then enable zoom mode and try to focus on the very top part of square wave. With vertical reference set to "Fixed Offset" zooming vertically "moves down" zoom box in level (!) and requires vertical offset adjustment.

Is it expected behavior? I don't see how this is useful.
IMO Vertical Ref option should not affect zoom mode at all and zoom mode should work as it currently does with "Fixed Position" setting.

The same issue remains with the newest FW 1.1.3.8.

Added screenshots (with descriptions) of the vertical zoom in Fixed Offset and Fixed Position Vertical Ref modes. Screenshots show a sequence of zoom ins and manual offset adjustments, trying to get to the top part of square wave. Observe position of zoom box in top part of the screen - clearly Fixed Offset has some issues while Fixed Position works.

Also, I am not sure I like the way scaling of Reference waveforms works while not in zoom mode (Vertical Ref does not affect Reference waveforms), but at least it is not buggy.

[2N3055]

Bug with vertical zoom persists - can anyone confirm this behavior? Is it the same on other Siglent scopes?
To reproduce bug, set "Vertical ref" to offset and try zooming in on the top of square wave. See attached picture of a results from zoomong in, behaviour is incorrect.

There is a bug with vertical zoom functionality as described in topic Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's. Screenshots describing situation are in a linked post.

SDS800X HD in zoom mode with Fixed Offset for Vertical Ref behaves strangely (1.1.3.6/3.8.12 FW) Utility > Menu > System Setting > Reference Pos > Vertical Ref [Fixed Position/Fixed Offset]

Setup - square wave 0V/3V input signal, edge trigger at 0.3V. Make signal full screen, then enable zoom mode and try to focus on the very top part of square wave. With vertical reference set to "Fixed Offset" zooming vertically "moves down" zoom box in level (!) and requires vertical offset adjustment.

Is it expected behavior? I don't see how this is useful.
IMO Vertical Ref option should not affect zoom mode at all and zoom mode should work as it currently does with "Fixed Position" setting.

The same issue remains with the newest FW 1.1.3.8.

Added screenshots (with descriptions) of the vertical zoom in Fixed Offset and Fixed Position Vertical Ref modes. Screenshots show a sequence of zoom ins and manual offset adjustments, trying to get to the top part of square wave. Observe position of zoom box in top part of the screen - clearly Fixed Offset has some issues while Fixed Position works.

Also, I am not sure I like the way scaling of Reference waveforms works while not in zoom mode (Vertical Ref does not affect Reference waveforms), but at least it is not buggy.

It remains with the last firmware 1.1.3.8. because it was reported after that FW was released to production. 

Yes, that is reported. I can confirm it was acknowledged and is being worked on.
ETA? Don't know.
It is probably coupled with some other work that has been going on...
Unless it is critical (smoke is coming out type) bug, no manufacturer releases overnight, single issue fixes..

[electr_peter]

I saw this bug with 1.1.3.8 (and possibly earlier version, do not recall right now) so hopefully it will be included in next FW releases. Good to know it is acknowledged.
I know it is usability bug, nothing too critical. But it gets in the way very often.

[2N3055]

I saw this bug with 1.1.3.8 (and possibly earlier version, do not recall right now) so hopefully it will be included in next FW releases. Good to know it is acknowledged.
I know it is usability bug, nothing too critical. But it gets in the way very often.

It is only important when it was discovered and reported because that is the moment when someone can start fixing it.

And no need for apologetics. Bug is a bug, so fixing is in order. Criticality only applies to urgency.
As for how impactful it is, that will highly depend of what you do and how you use it.
It only obviously shows when you apply quite large offsets, and pay attention. I personally didn't notice, and I had the  scope much earlier than you...
I still see many people using these scopes without axis scales on...

But luckily, we are not all the same and everybody contributes some new value..

[eTobey]

I would not mind too much, of beeing used as a beta tester, as there are many functions for not so much money, but the bugs should be fixed ASAP then.  The grid is still not aligned with the numbers, which is REALLY BAD. That should have been fixed already. 

[eTobey]

Jeez, this thing is really naughty again (again). Two things at the same time. Tried to look for the file with the most recent date, but couldnt find it. Found out, that the time does not work of unknown reason! It worked before, but just not now. 

And then the next thing: loaded my mask, but now the level is wrong (see picture).

All those features, but ....


EDIT:
Wanted to move the level to fit the mask, it jumped back into the right position... 

[eTobey]

Wtf is this? Another issues appeared! The trigger is odd. When the level is at 151V, it triggers just fine on a 3.3V level pulse! Something must have crashed in the software, without an obvious sign.
https://youtu.be/22_viJaxcTI
https://youtu.be/99HdnPxrwTo

EDIT:
Issue dissapeared after restart. Scacle and position (maybe more?) of the problem channel changed though.

[tautech]

Jeez, this thing is really naughty again (again). Two things at the same time. Tried to look for the file with the most recent date, but couldnt find it. Found out, that the time does not work of unknown reason! It worked before, but just not now. 

And then the next thing: loaded my mask, but now the level is wrong (see picture).

All those features, but ....


EDIT:
Wanted to move the level to fit the mask, it jumped back into the right position... 

You should know better by now and post the FW version in use and the steps to reliably recreate any claimed bug.

All user error so let's break them down into the 3 issues and list them each.
1. As can be clearly seen NTP has not synced.
2. Loading a Setup and then a saved Mask may have been more successful.
3. You can't move a Mask.

[housemartin]

Whats the firmware update procedure?
Is it risky, can it brick your scope?

Simple via USB and the .ADS file from Siglent firmware download packages.
Done 100’s and never bricked a unit.

Latest for all SDS800X HD models is here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=74

You can also do the firmware via the web interface...

[2N3055]

Wtf is this? Another issues appeared! The trigger is odd. When the level is at 151V, it triggers just fine on a 3.3V level pulse! Something must have crashed in the software, without an obvious sign.
https://youtu.be/22_viJaxcTI
https://youtu.be/99HdnPxrwTo

EDIT:
Issue dissapeared after restart. Scacle and position (maybe more?) of the problem channel changed though.

I tried.

Channel 1 was set at 10x probe and 5V/div, 13V offset . Trigger set to pulse, negative. 1ms timeout. 1MPts, 20ms/div, time delay 1.25s, 5 MSa/s. 4 CH used.

I cannot reproduce (with data you published) neither 151V trig level (you cannot enter more than 7,5V with knob or keyboard) and Pulse-> Trigger level works normally.

[KungFuJosh]

I think the only way to fix those "bugs" is to have Siglent do some onsite training sessions. 😉

[eTobey]

Jeez, this thing is really naughty again (again). Two things at the same time. Tried to look for the file with the most recent date, but couldnt find it. Found out, that the time does not work of unknown reason! It worked before, but just not now. 

And then the next thing: loaded my mask, but now the level is wrong (see picture).

All those features, but ....


EDIT:
Wanted to move the level to fit the mask, it jumped back into the right position... 

You should know better by now and post the FW version in use and the steps to reliably recreate any claimed bug.

All user error so let's break them down into the 3 issues and list them each.
1. As can be clearly seen NTP has not synced.
2. Loading a Setup and then a saved Mask may have been more successful.
3. You can't move a Mask.

Where did i say the B-word? Of course its the current firmware 1.1.3.8
Yes NTP has obvioulsy not beeing synced. The reason is the scope failed to do so! I testet it before, and it worked, even with having the NTP server on AFTER the scope started. 
I meant the level of the signal of course.

This morning again, the CH1 settings were lost/changed. But at least the NTP server worked.

I am really tired of trying to reproduce issues, when they are rather hard to reproduce. One of the reason is you guys denying it, and letting me look bad, and the other is, that it will propably not beeing fixed by siglent in the near future as it seems. Just the grid not aligning is the best example. Should be an easy fix, but it hasnt been fixed. And this is a "cheap chinese device bug"... 

[eTobey]

Wtf is this? Another issues appeared! The trigger is odd. When the level is at 151V, it triggers just fine on a 3.3V level pulse! Something must have crashed in the software, without an obvious sign.
https://youtu.be/22_viJaxcTI
https://youtu.be/99HdnPxrwTo

EDIT:
Issue dissapeared after restart. Scacle and position (maybe more?) of the problem channel changed though.

I tried.

Channel 1 was set at 10x probe and 5V/div, 13V offset . Trigger set to pulse, negative. 1ms timeout. 1MPts, 20ms/div, time delay 1.25s, 5 MSa/s. 4 CH used.

I cannot reproduce (with data you published) neither 151V trig level (you cannot enter more than 7,5V with knob or keyboard) and Pulse-> Trigger level works normally.

If the user cant enter more than 7.5V trigger level, but the picture shows 151V, then it can be classified as a bug?

[2N3055]

Wtf is this? Another issues appeared! The trigger is odd. When the level is at 151V, it triggers just fine on a 3.3V level pulse! Something must have crashed in the software, without an obvious sign.
https://youtu.be/22_viJaxcTI
https://youtu.be/99HdnPxrwTo

EDIT:
Issue dissapeared after restart. Scacle and position (maybe more?) of the problem channel changed though.

I tried.

Channel 1 was set at 10x probe and 5V/div, 13V offset . Trigger set to pulse, negative. 1ms timeout. 1MPts, 20ms/div, time delay 1.25s, 5 MSa/s. 4 CH used.

I cannot reproduce (with data you published) neither 151V trig level (you cannot enter more than 7,5V with knob or keyboard) and Pulse-> Trigger level works normally.

If the user cant enter more than 7.5V trigger level, but the picture shows 151V, then it can be classified as a bug?

It can be classified as a photo with a number on it.

Look, don't start again. You are making drama about things that are supposed to be facts.

I didn't DISPUTE anything you say. I took your post seriously and I went and tried to reproduce.
I could NOT, based on information you gave.

That is all I said. If you can give us more info how you confused scope to show you that error, maybe somebody will be able to reproduce. And then we have something to report.

In meantime, what CAN we report to Siglent? If they cannot catch it happening how are they going to troubleshoot? What are they going to troubleshoot?

[ebastler]

I agree. There obviously is a bug: The trigger threshold gets displayed as 151 V, which is supposed to be well out of range and which is not the real threshold value applied. But we need to know more about the steps which preceded this -- ideally a step-by-step sequence that provokes the bug, or if that is not available, as much detail as possible on "what did I do before".

[eTobey]

Wtf is this? Another issues appeared! The trigger is odd. When the level is at 151V, it triggers just fine on a 3.3V level pulse! Something must have crashed in the software, without an obvious sign.
https://youtu.be/22_viJaxcTI
https://youtu.be/99HdnPxrwTo

EDIT:
Issue dissapeared after restart. Scacle and position (maybe more?) of the problem channel changed though.

I tried.

Channel 1 was set at 10x probe and 5V/div, 13V offset . Trigger set to pulse, negative. 1ms timeout. 1MPts, 20ms/div, time delay 1.25s, 5 MSa/s. 4 CH used.

I cannot reproduce (with data you published) neither 151V trig level (you cannot enter more than 7,5V with knob or keyboard) and Pulse-> Trigger level works normally.

If the user cant enter more than 7.5V trigger level, but the picture shows 151V, then it can be classified as a bug?

It can be classified as a photo with a number on it.

Look, don't start again. You are making drama about things that are supposed to be facts.

I didn't DISPUTE anything you say. I took your post seriously and I went and tried to reproduce.
I could NOT, based on information you gave.

That is all I said. If you can give us more info how you confused scope to show you that error, maybe somebody will be able to reproduce. And then we have something to report.

In meantime, what CAN we report to Siglent? If they cannot catch it happening how are they going to troubleshoot? What are they going to troubleshoot?

What is your bloody problem? There was a question that could be answered with "yes" or "no", but you make a dram out of it, and telling me to not start something? I am not starting anything, i am documenting issues (if you dont like the b-word).

As for Siglent:
There would be a possibility to implement plausible catches, that would catch this bug and then save debug data...

[voltsandjolts]

In meantime, what CAN we report to Siglent? If they cannot catch it happening how are they going to troubleshoot? What are they going to troubleshoot?

The videos demonstrate the issue. Reporting this alone can lead to a fix, if the firmware engineer reviews the relevant code and then see's how it could get into such a fault state. Yes, it is better to have a sequence of events to reproduce the fault, but sometimes that is just not possible, especially with the complexity of modern firmware.

[2N3055]

In meantime, what CAN we report to Siglent? If they cannot catch it happening how are they going to troubleshoot? What are they going to troubleshoot?

The videos demonstrate the issue. Reporting this alone can lead to a fix, if the firmware engineer reviews the relevant code and then see's how it could get into such a fault state. Yes, it is better to have a sequence of events to reproduce the fault, but sometimes that is just not possible, especially with the complexity of modern firmware.

Video demonstrates nothing.

It shows screen with some weird numbers.

It was not explained what he was doing to achieve that state. It can be fake video for all we know (which I'm not saying it is), until someone replicates steps.

I said that I took it seriously, performed investigation, tried several ways of doing things and nothing.
He himself cannot reproduce it.

So what do we report? Pretty please  magical fix to something that happened once to one person out of 10s of thousands ?

I will repeat: I do not contest he had something happen.
But what do we do: go to service, give the car keys and say: "I am not happy, while I was driving something happened. Please fix it!!"

[watchmaker]

Two requests:

Ability to select colors for channel and math traces.  This would also improve usability for the those with visual color impairments.

Also, and I know this has been mentioned earlier, but it would be real nice if the Math Function was mouse selectable.  On the screen bottom maybe??

Regards,

Dewey

[2N3055]

Two requests:

Ability to select colors for channel and math traces.  This would also improve usability for the those with visual color impairments.

Also, and I know this has been mentioned earlier, but it would be real nice if the Math Function was mouse selectable.  On the screen bottom maybe??

Regards,

Dewey

Hi.

800xHD is simplest touchscope they make. AFAIK custom colors are not planned.

As for math channels, if you click on (+) at bottom to make a new channel, you can create math channel there directly.
If Math channel is already active, clicking to on it brings Math menu back. Hope that helps.

[watchmaker]

  ^

THANKS!

[awakephd]

Is there a way to configure the 804 not to ask for confirmation when the Auto key is pressed? If not, it is certainly not a bug, but it is a wish - or at least, I would like to be able to turn that confirmation off. Not sure if others would like this as well. Or if I just haven't yet figured out how to turn it off!

[tautech]

Is there a way to configure the 804 not to ask for confirmation when the Auto key is pressed? If not, it is certainly not a bug, but it is a wish - or at least, I would like to be able to turn that confirmation off. Not sure if others would like this as well. Or if I just haven't yet figured out how to turn it off!

Well take this as you like....don't use it !

Alternatives are:
Configuring your own User Default.
Saving and recalling preferred Setups.

[KungFuJosh]

Does hitting the button a second time bypass the confirmation?

[Martin72]

800xHD is simplest touchscope they make. AFAIK custom colors are not planned.

I had suggested the custom colors for the SDS2000Xplus at the time and also “got” them.
The SDS800X HD has two extras that the SDS2000Xplus did not get for performance reasons: 4 math channels and digital filters.
So it seems that the 800X HD is not that simple, an implementation of custom colors seems possible from that point of view - just not wanted, for obvious reasons.

[tautech]

800xHD is simplest touchscope they make. AFAIK custom colors are not planned.

I had suggested the custom colors for the SDS2000Xplus at the time and also “got” them.
The SDS800X HD has two extras that the SDS2000Xplus did not get for performance reasons: 4 math channels and digital filters.
So it seems that the 800X HD is not that simple, an implementation of custom colors seems possible from that point of view - just not wanted, for obvious reasons.

SDS1000X HD also doesn't support custom colors and I suspect that will remain as a point of difference between 800 and 1k models vs 2k+ models.

[Cyclotron]

Does hitting the button a second time bypass the confirmation?

Yes, second push does for me. And pushing and holding it will jump past the confirmation.

[eTobey]

Video demonstrates nothing.

Only to fanyboys. Others have an objective view.

[ebastler]

Video demonstrates nothing.

Only to fanyboys. Others have an objective view.

Please, let's all be reasonable here. Can we agree that the video does indeed show a bug, but that it does not help in locating the root cause? It is unreasonable to claim that the video might be a fake. It is also unreasonable to expect Siglent to try and hunt that bug based on the very sparse information we have so far.

[eTobey]

Please, let's all be reasonable here. Can we agree that the video does indeed show a bug, but that it does not help in locating the root cause? It is unreasonable to claim that the video might be a fake. It is also unreasonable to expect Siglent to try and hunt that bug based on the very sparse information we have so far.

Id call having an objective view reasonable.

Yes, its not much information that i can give so far. I just want to document it here, for others, that may come across the same issue. But with all that noise some create here, this is getting difficult...

[Furna]

Please, let's all be reasonable here. Can we agree that the video does indeed show a bug, but that it does not help in locating the root cause? It is unreasonable to claim that the video might be a fake. It is also unreasonable to expect Siglent to try and hunt that bug based on the very sparse information we have so far.

Id call having an objective view reasonable.

Yes, its not much information that i can give so far. I just want to document it here, for others, that may come across the same issue. But with all that noise some create here, this is getting difficult...

It could be the noise here is due to a few forum members that are not following the rules described at the first message of the thread to report reproducible bugs.

If you have non reproducible bugs you can share at https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/ where you can also freely speak about you device as saying it is a low end chinese device
Saying that it is a low end chinese device here is not adding information to the bug report ... is just adding noise.
When it becomes reproducible and is ready to be reported you come here ...

If you need a new fuature you post in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/

If you need a deep review you go to https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/

Did I forget any thread about SDS800X HD ?

[tautech]

Please, let's all be reasonable here. Can we agree that the video does indeed show a bug, but that it does not help in locating the root cause? It is unreasonable to claim that the video might be a fake. It is also unreasonable to expect Siglent to try and hunt that bug based on the very sparse information we have so far.

Id call having an objective view reasonable.

Yes, its not much information that i can give so far. I just want to document it here, for others, that may come across the same issue. But with all that noise some create here, this is getting difficult...

It could be the noise here is due to a few forum members that are not following the rules described at the first message of the thread to report reproducible bugs.

If you have non reproducible bugs you can share at https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/ where you can also freely speak about you device as saying it is a low end chinese device
Saying that it is a low end chinese device here is not adding information to the bug report ... is just adding noise.
When it becomes reproducible and is ready to be reported you come here ...

If you need a new fuature you post in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/

If you need a deep review you go to https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/

Did I forget any thread about SDS800X HD ?

Yep, we are looking for reproducible facts, not riddles to solve. 

[2N3055]

Please, let's all be reasonable here. Can we agree that the video does indeed show a bug, but that it does not help in locating the root cause? It is unreasonable to claim that the video might be a fake. It is also unreasonable to expect Siglent to try and hunt that bug based on the very sparse information we have so far.

Id call having an objective view reasonable.

Yes, its not much information that i can give so far. I just want to document it here, for others, that may come across the same issue. But with all that noise some create here, this is getting difficult...

All your problems are self made.
Because of your warm, kind and understanding personality that compels you to insult people at every opportunity.

Some people here are lucky to have equipment others don't have and a willing to test and help the others in their own free time.
Some even have some insider knowledge that allows them to see "behind the horizon" and give better advice.
Nor, me nor Performa01 nor Tatuech are employed by Siglent to be support.
And certainly nobody here are you servants, indentured to fulfill you whims and rude orders you bark at people.

If I report some bug to Siglent support and ask for a solution I do it as a public service.
To help people here that asked for it.
Which is something I didn't have to do.
There are official manufacturer support channels and you can simply send them support request directly on your own.

If I do something, it is something I did of my own will and my own free time.
If I do it, that is also going to be on my rules. If I need additional data, or better explanation. My work, my time, my rules. My way or highway.
I am not going to enable someone being lazy, rude, obnoxious and do work for them while at the same time I get insulted all the time.

Have a nice day.

[eTobey]

Yep, we are looking for reproducible facts, not riddles to solve. 

You fanboys are even denying facts, so why should i even care about putting much work into it? I have done this many times, but you ALWAYS said user error (yes some were - i dont deny that) without further investigation at first.

With all that noise and poor arguments many of you dilluted the discusions, and made it even more difficult to improve a product that you are a fan of. This fact in itself is amazingly st***. 

[Furna]

Yep, we are looking for reproducible facts, not riddles to solve. 

You fanboys are even denying facts, so why should i even care about putting much work into it? I have done this many times, but you ALWAYS said user error (yes some were - i dont deny that) without further investigation at first.

With all that noise and poor arguments many of you dilluted the discusions, and made it even more difficult to improve a product that you are a fan of. This fact in itself is amazingly st***. 

Who is "you"?? Does "you" include me?
Really eTobey stop ... as I wrote already there is a thread for you to share what you found and is not reproducible.
Thank you.

[eTobey]

Yep, we are looking for reproducible facts, not riddles to solve. 

You fanboys are even denying facts, so why should i even care about putting much work into it? I have done this many times, but you ALWAYS said user error (yes some were - i dont deny that) without further investigation at first.

With all that noise and poor arguments many of you dilluted the discusions, and made it even more difficult to improve a product that you are a fan of. This fact in itself is amazingly st***. 

Who is "you"?? Does "you" include me?
Really eTobey stop ... as I wrote already there is a thread for you to share what you found and is not reproducible.
Thank you.

[eTobey]

Search pattern ignored:

I am pretty sure, that all the relevant information to reproduce this issue are on that screenshot. (Two pulses on stopped acquire 1 and 3.5us.) Before that screenshot, i found the same (?) issue, where some pulses were not found by the search feature. Tried to catch this issue, but when turning the knob on "lower value" without actually changing its value, all search patterns were found.

Now for that screenshot:
The level shows the limit at which the left pulse is found or not. Cant reproduce it otherwise (not really motivated, guess why...). I guess its related. Is there something, that is not in the manual or i have missed?

EDIT:
Investigate further nevertheless. Tried using the AWG for some better investigation. Didnt work out: Cant reproduce it at the moment, and didnt save the settings. 

EDIT 2:
There seems to be an issue with search and the sample rate. On a lower sample rate, the search markings (white triangular) seem to not correspond with the functionality. They are not shown, but are a part of the set.

I change the lower value, to only have the search find the first pulse. Its works as it seems, but when actually navigating through the search finds, it navigates through finding from before.
https://youtu.be/OF-KE48C8D8

[tautech]

Search pattern ignored:

I am pretty sure, that all the relevant information to reproduce this issue are on that screenshot. (Two pulses on stopped acquire 1 and 3.5us.) Before that screenshot, i found the same (?) issue, where some pulses were not found by the search feature. Tried to catch this issue, but when turning the knob on "lower value" without actually changing its value, all search patterns were found.

Now for that screenshot:
The level shows the limit at which the left pulse is found or not. Cant reproduce it otherwise (not really motivated, guess why...). I guess its related. Is there something, that is not in the manual or i have missed?

EDIT:
Investigate further nevertheless. Tried using the AWG for some better investigation. Didnt work out: Cant reproduce it at the moment, and didnt save the settings. 

Hiding under the Delta measurement is the H Pos indicator indicating the trigger position is way to the left of the display.
In your red circle is just the mid display maker and hollow surround only indicating it is not the current trigger position.
To return the H Pos trigger maker to the mid display 0s position, press the H Pos encoder to zero it.

Does that help ?

[eTobey]

Hiding under the Delta measurement is the H Pos indicator indicating the trigger position is way to the left of the display.
In your red circle is just the mid display maker and hollow surround only indicating it is not the current trigger position.
To return the H Pos trigger maker to the mid display 0s position, press the H Pos encoder to zero it.

Does that help ?

Not at all, as this has nothing to do with the issue itself. (Would a facepalm smiley be rude if i put that in here?)

[Furna]

(Would a facepalm smiley be rude if i put that in here?)

I am not sure, I wouldn't care; but a discussing the topic on the appropriate thread would be appreciated.

[tautech]

Hiding under the Delta measurement is the H Pos indicator indicating the trigger position is way to the left of the display.
In your red circle is just the mid display maker and hollow surround only indicating it is not the current trigger position.
To return the H Pos trigger maker to the mid display 0s position, press the H Pos encoder to zero it.

Does that help ?

Not at all, as this has nothing to do with the issue itself.

Is Peak Detect engaged ?

[2N3055]

Search pattern ignored:

I am pretty sure, that all the relevant information to reproduce this issue are on that screenshot. (Two pulses on stopped acquire 1 and 3.5us.) Before that screenshot, i found the same (?) issue, where some pulses were not found by the search feature. Tried to catch this issue, but when turning the knob on "lower value" without actually changing its value, all search patterns were found.

Now for that screenshot:
The level shows the limit at which the left pulse is found or not. Cant reproduce it otherwise (not really motivated, guess why...). I guess its related. Is there something, that is not in the manual or i have missed?

EDIT:
Investigate further nevertheless. Tried using the AWG for some better investigation. Didnt work out: Cant reproduce it at the moment, and didnt save the settings. 

EDIT 2:
There seems to be an issue with search and the sample rate. On a lower sample rate, the search markings (white triangular) seem to not correspond with the functionality. They are not shown, but are a part of the set.

I change the lower value, to only have the search find the first pulse. Its works as it seems, but when actually navigating through the search finds, it navigates through finding from before.
https://youtu.be/OF-KE48C8D8

I will just share a simple fact from your video. In this case you are correct. This video is helpful

You set the scope to sample at 2MS/S.
That means scope takes one sample every 500 ns.

Then you search for pulses wider than 742ns and then ones wider than 911ns.

Can you answer now how the scope that has no samples other than those at increment of 0,5µs would know a difference between those two settings?
Hint? Scope at this moment interprets this as >=1µs.

Like I said before. You don't know the basic theory behind the functioning of DSO. Which in itself is not a problem at all.
If you came here on EEVBLOG saying: "hey guys, is something wrong with the scope, or am I doing something wrong? I did this and this and expected this and this but scope gave me some weird result. Can someone look at this and help me?"

This literally happens almost every day and people get help all the time.

But no. You just do something on the scope without true understanding, but instead of asking for help or clarification, we get "ahhhhaaaaa another stupid bug!!!!". You are NEVER wrong. Ever. Scope is stupid. Rigol is stupid Siglent is stupid. If you had money for R&S or Keysight they would be stupid too, every time you don't understand something. Because you expect a device to think for you. They can't. Sorry.

And you keep doing wrong things. Scope has 100MPts of memory. But you keep using 1Mpt and get horrendously slow sample rate that are source of many of your problems. But you keep doing it. You were warned repeatedly about it.

So please, set scope to automatic memory and at least 10 Mpts and try that same thing again.

[eTobey]

I will just share a simple fact from your video. In this case you are correct. This video is helpful

You set the scope to sample at 2MS/S.
That means scope takes one sample every 500 ns.

Then you search for pulses wider than 742ns and then ones wider than 911ns.

Can you answer now how the scope that has no samples other than those at increment of 0,5µs would know a difference between those two settings?

The video is probably (?) not the same issue. First i thought so, but not anymore. On the relevant picture, there is 20MS/s BTW...

To answer your question:
It uses linear interpolation.

EDIT:
For people to understand (linear interpolation):
Yes, its not the searchmode, but its the same principle and much better to show. If you look closely, you can see, that the pulse has only 5 samples, yet the value is measured precisely (kind of).
https://youtu.be/pyC6GrvWN7M

[2N3055]

I will just share a simple fact from your video. In this case you are correct. This video is helpful

You set the scope to sample at 2MS/S.
That means scope takes one sample every 500 ns.

Then you search for pulses wider than 742ns and then ones wider than 911ns.

Can you answer now how the scope that has no samples other than those at increment of 0,5µs would know a difference between those two settings?

To answer your question:
It uses linear interpolation.

When we say linear interpolation, it simply means it is connecting dots with lines. It cannot create samples in between.
Take a piece of millimetre paper and pencil and draw. You will see.
You need sampling rate.

[eTobey]

I will just share a simple fact from your video. In this case you are correct. This video is helpful

You set the scope to sample at 2MS/S.
That means scope takes one sample every 500 ns.

Then you search for pulses wider than 742ns and then ones wider than 911ns.

Can you answer now how the scope that has no samples other than those at increment of 0,5µs would know a difference between those two settings?

To answer your question:
It uses linear interpolation.

When we say linear interpolation, it simply means it is connecting dots with lines. It cannot create samples in between.
Take a piece of millimetre paper and pencil and draw. You will see.
You need sampling rate.

Mathemtically you can calculate with dots, or with line linecrossings. A linescrossing would be these interpolated lines, and a constant level (threshold in the scope).
This is why you cant have the search feature in DOT mode, try it!

BTW: I do use less sample rate, in order to catch frames! At 1MSa/s it gives 28 frames, but at 10MSa/s it gives only 1. 

[2N3055]

I will just share a simple fact from your video. In this case you are correct. This video is helpful

You set the scope to sample at 2MS/S.
That means scope takes one sample every 500 ns.

Then you search for pulses wider than 742ns and then ones wider than 911ns.

Can you answer now how the scope that has no samples other than those at increment of 0,5µs would know a difference between those two settings?

To answer your question:
It uses linear interpolation.

When we say linear interpolation, it simply means it is connecting dots with lines. It cannot create samples in between.
Take a piece of millimetre paper and pencil and draw. You will see.
You need sampling rate.

Mathemtically you can calculate with dots, or with line linecrossings. A linescrossing would be these interpolated lines, and a constant level (threshold in the scope).
This is why you cant have the search feature in DOT mode, try it!

BTW: I do use less sample rate, in order to catch frames! At 1MSa/s it gives 28 frames, but at 10MSa/s it gives only 1. 

Use Auto mode and all memory to get best sampling.

Why are you facepalming me?
It is you who do not understand.

If you check your mailbox only once every day, you can interpolate all you want.
You will never know at what time mailman delivered it. Only that it was delivered somewhere in last 24 hours.
Maybe at 8:32 or at 19:21. You don't know.
You timing resolution is 24 hours.
You cannot measure at what time mail was delivered on each day for the last month.
You can only measure on which days mail was delivered and number of envelopes on each day.

[jasonquin]

Siglent is very generous with memory depth, and you paid for it.

[eTobey]

I will just share a simple fact from your video. In this case you are correct. This video is helpful

You set the scope to sample at 2MS/S.
That means scope takes one sample every 500 ns.

Then you search for pulses wider than 742ns and then ones wider than 911ns.

Can you answer now how the scope that has no samples other than those at increment of 0,5µs would know a difference between those two settings?

To answer your question:
It uses linear interpolation.

When we say linear interpolation, it simply means it is connecting dots with lines. It cannot create samples in between.
Take a piece of millimetre paper and pencil and draw. You will see.
You need sampling rate.

Mathemtically you can calculate with dots, or with line linecrossings. A linescrossing would be these interpolated lines, and a constant level (threshold in the scope).
This is why you cant have the search feature in DOT mode, try it!

BTW: I do use less sample rate, in order to catch frames! At 1MSa/s it gives 28 frames, but at 10MSa/s it gives only 1. 

Use Auto mode and all memory to get best sampling.

Why are you facepalming me?
It is you who do not understand.

If you check your mailbox only once every day, you can interpolate all you want.
You will never know at what time mailman delivered it. Only that it was delivered somewhere in last 24 hours.
Maybe at 8:32 or at 19:21. You don't know.
You timing resolution is 24 hours.
You cannot measure at what time mail was delivered on each day for the last month.
You can only measure on which days mail was delivered and number of envelopes on each day.

Are you playing stupid, or are you not reading/comprehending what i wrote? I said i need "frameS"! The "s" at the end of the word "frames" means more than 1 frame, 3 for example. And with higher memory depth i get just 1 !!! You can spare me with your useless examples...

No, that facepalm was for the scope, this one is for you: 

[eTobey]

It is really frustrating, that siglent does not fix the grid alignment bug issue. The grid still drifts out of alignment when adjusting the level to a greater extend or in zoom mode. ... But there is more: The grid is also not aligned, when changing the channel.

https://youtu.be/ITbbYUFg6CU

[bd139]

It is really frustrating, that siglent does not fix the grid alignment bug issue. The grid still drifts out of alignment when adjusting the level to a greater extend or in zoom mode. ... But there is more: The grid is also not aligned, when changing the channel.

https://youtu.be/ITbbYUFg6CU

I am not sure that is actually an issue. If you want to use the grid as a measurement device then it would need to remain static in relation to the signal traces like it does on an analogue scope. The menu states only the labels move, not that the axis moves and the labels move with the traces.

Actually if you really want to be pedantic I'd rather just turn the grid and origin off. As mentioned it's a holdover from analogue scopes and not necessarily that important when you have something that does automatic measurements and cursors etc. I mean what are you using the scope for where this is an issue?

[eTobey]

I mean what are you using the scope for where this is an issue?

I want to see rough values/levels with a quick (max 2 seconds) look, and not use features that have issues.

All those features, and then some basic things wont work... 

[bd139]

I mean what are you using the scope for where this is an issue?

I want to see rough values/levels with a quick (max 2 seconds) look, and not use features that have issues.

All those features, and then some basic things wont work... 

I don't think that's impossible.

As for the rest, can we quit the bitching and hyperbole and be specific and deterministic on this. No one is going to listen to you if you suffix everything with generic complaining.

[Furna]

As for the rest, can we quit the bitching and hyperbole and be specific and deterministic on this. No one is going to listen to you if you suffix everything with generic complaining.

I would suggest to stop answering; this person is not going to listen.
I suggested to keep discussions/complains in different/dedicated thread and bugs and feature requests in dedicated threads; the result is more noise on those threads as well.
Also other threads were started ... I guess the objective is just trolling.
I do not see other action we can take other that simply ignore.

[Martin72]

Do as I do and you'll have peace and quiet.

[bd139]

As for the rest, can we quit the bitching and hyperbole and be specific and deterministic on this. No one is going to listen to you if you suffix everything with generic complaining.

I would suggest to stop answering; this person is not going to listen.
I suggested to keep discussions/complains in different/dedicated thread and bugs and feature requests in dedicated threads; the result is more noise on those threads as well.
Also other threads were started ... I guess the objective is just trolling.
I do not see other action we can take other that simply ignore.

I prefer the approach of pissing people off until they leave

[KungFuJosh]

I prefer the approach of pissing people off until they leave

Isn't that his mantra? 😉

 

[bd139]

I prefer the approach of pissing people off until they leave

Isn't that his mantra? 😉

 

I thought it was just complaining. I mean looking at the YT channel he bought a Rigol and moaned about that. Then bought a Siglent and moaned about that. I am playing "guess the next scope brand" at the moment. I am also picturing him crouched in front of a Tek 7904 trolley complaining about the grid not moving and the shitty user interface and it is cheering me up.

Edit: I'm on the software side of things these days but I have many customer conversations that are the same. There's 25,000 people without a complaint but 1 person with all the complaints, none of which are concrete or well described.

[KungFuJosh]

Fair enough. Two different paths to the same destination. 😉

[eTobey]

That looks quite ugly:
There where there is no space, there are useless digits (2 digits always beeing 0), and then where there is space (on the gate values) there is only one digit after the comma.

This has already beeing known quite some time ago i believe. (those useless digits)

[tautech]

That looks quite ugly:
There where there is no space, there are useless digits (2 digits always beeing 0), and then where there is space (on the gate values) there is only one digit after the comma.

This has already beeing known quite some time ago i believe. (those useless digits)

When you need them....you NEED them !

Our customer requires 10 digit accuracy and HQ are working on how to provide it.....in a different model.

Your view of how this scope should operate is just yours and certainly not universal !

[bd139]

That looks quite ugly:
There where there is no space, there are useless digits (2 digits always beeing 0), and then where there is space (on the gate values) there is only one digit after the comma.

This has already beeing known quite some time ago i believe. (those useless digits)

Are you sure they useless? The input parameter is to 1 d.p but the measurement or marker may be better precision with different rounding rules?

Does an HP 34401A display 1.5 when you are measuring 1.500000 volts or 1.500000?

An assumption either way if course but a demonstration that your perspective may not be the right one.

[eTobey]

That looks quite ugly:
There where there is no space, there are useless digits (2 digits always beeing 0), and then where there is space (on the gate values) there is only one digit after the comma.

This has already beeing known quite some time ago i believe. (those useless digits)

When you need them....you NEED them !

Our customer requires 10 digit accuracy and HQ are working on how to provide it.....in a different model.

You can say whatever you want, it still looks bloody ugly!

[KungFuJosh]

You can say whatever you want, it still looks bloody ugly!

Rather than whining like a toddler, or saying my way or the highway, you could put in a feature request to have an option to limit the digits on the axis markers. That way you can have what you want, and so can the adults.

[Martin72]

You can also turn off the axis labeling, which also solves the “problem”.

[2N3055]

Biggest problem is that he keeps repeating it, dozens of times.
And keeps opening topics on same things all time...
After being told dozens of times that it was reported already, by other people before him, and that Siglent is informed about, and working on it to optimize where in CAN be optimized.
And after 2 days there he goes again. And endless whining how "king is not happy!!" and whole world should not sleep until anything he does not like should be fixed immediately. And all of it is easy and he could fix all the problems in 10 minutes. And everybody else is stupid.

Like a spoiled 3 year old, demanding attention all the time.....
Endless drama, theatrics, narcissism, egocentricity etc...

Without really understanding how scope works, how it is used.. Shown numerous time....

[Furna]

Not only ... I would like this thread to be used for 2 reasons only:
- when a bug is found, reproducible and documented
- when a new firmware is released
This would allow me to subscribe to the thread and use it as an "alarm" that time to upgrade firmware arrived.
There are other threads for open discussions, opinions ...
Indeed it seems this person just start typing randomly in different threads or even opening a new one.
Frankly speaking a veri annoying behaviour.

[bd139]

That looks quite ugly:
There where there is no space, there are useless digits (2 digits always beeing 0), and then where there is space (on the gate values) there is only one digit after the comma.

This has already beeing known quite some time ago i believe. (those useless digits)

When you need them....you NEED them !

Our customer requires 10 digit accuracy and HQ are working on how to provide it.....in a different model.

You can say whatever you want, it still looks bloody ugly!

Correct > nice.

[eTobey]

I cant remember if this has been already posted. I may have forgotten this, as there was a lot of noise... The bug list is not updated anymore, as the user hasnt been seen since 3 months...

History time wrong
Steps to reproduce:
- Factory reset
- activate the option to show time on the bottom right
- acquire some frames (i used channel 4)
- open the list view in history menu
- obsere the time in the list, and compare with the time in the bottom right

Expected time in the list: 16:53:xx
Observed time in the list: 01:17:xx

Seems, that time "time since device start" has snug into the history module. 

Interestingly, a factory reset did not reset all date settings, just the option to show the date.

Edit:
A reboot after the factory reset, did reset some more settings in the date menu, but not all.

[2N3055]

I cant remember if this has been already posted. I may have forgotten this, as there was a lot of noise... The bug list is not updated anymore, as the user hasnt been seen since 3 months...

History time wrong
Steps to reproduce:
- Factory reset
- activate the option to show time on the bottom right
- acquire some frames (i used channel 4)
- open the list view in history menu
- obsere the time in the list, and compare with the time in the bottom right

Expected time in the list: 16:53:xx
Observed time in the list: 01:17:xx

Seems, that time "time since device start" has snug into the history module. 

Interestingly, a factory reset did not reset all date settings, just the option to show the date.

There were not bugs reported in meantime... Maybe one or two small ones that were already known from internal testing and are being addressed.

But for this one, I can confirm there is a bug here. It would be nice if you could add FW version next time, for completeness, for other people that can read this later to be able to know what FW it applies to.
But this time you provided decent enough data for others to test. 

I tested on 1.1.38 FW and reproduced it.
There is no need for any additional steps, after boot with network connected, NTP will set time but History will not get it.

If you go into NTP settings and manually force NTP sync then it works fine. That can be used as a workaround at this time.

Will report.

[watchmaker]

This concerns the manual.

Can we please have the section title added to the header of the pages?  For example, "TRIGGER" at the top of the page for each page in section 15.  For me this makes PDFs much more useable.  (I get lost easily).

[ttelectronic]

This concerns the manual.

Can we please have the section title added to the header of the pages?  For example, "TRIGGER" at the top of the page for each page in section 15.  For me this makes PDFs much more useable.  (I get lost easily).

Not going to guarantee this is a perfect conversion. This is what I managed to do. =)

[eTobey]

I got sumatra pdf, and it highlights the current chapter in the sidebar.

It is also more compact than adobe reader. (at least my old adobe)