Author Topic: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware  (Read 46999 times)

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Offline Bill3745

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #350 on: December 23, 2024, 09:45:31 pm »
I didn't see this in the thread so apologies if it was already reported, but I have had the FFT function "lock up" on me a few times where the only way to get it running again is to reboot the scope. The scope itself stays responsive, it is only the FFT that stops working where it will not respond to any parameter changes or display any signal. Turning the FFT function off and then on again does not seem to help. Unfortunately, I do not know of a specific sequence of actions to reliably reproduce the bug. I am using the latest firmware -  1.1.3.8 - on a SDS814X HD.

I've had the above described FFT issue crop up several times in the last couple of days.  It seems to be more prevalent when I have been using FFT, shut the scope down and later start it back up again. When it restarts the FFT will not respond until I reboot the scope again. FFT settings in effect when experiencing this tend to be max-hold, 8K points, flattop, and an RBW of 910.96 kHz.  I can't reproduce it consistently, but I've seen it happen enough times to kind of be surprised that no one else has encountered it. As stated above the non-FFT display and controls continue to work normally, it is only the FFT math function that dies.


Bill
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Offline eTobey

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #351 on: December 24, 2024, 12:01:14 pm »
NTP timesync fails
Sometimes the scope does not sync the time (about 1 out of 8). I have setup my PC as NTP server, as i can not sync with external NTP servers.

I ruled out my PC, as a restart of the PC did not fix it. Only a restart of the scope fixed it.

Am i the only one with this problem, or do others just dont care about the time?
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD issues/tips/workarounds (Updated 16. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #352 on: December 24, 2024, 12:12:30 pm »
NTP timesync fails
Sometimes the scope does not sync the time (about 1 out of 8). I have setup my PC as NTP server, as i can not sync with external NTP servers.

I ruled out my PC, as a restart of the PC did not fix it. Only a restart of the scope fixed it.

Am i the only one with this problem, or do others just dont care about the time?

Answer is same as before. It works for most people that use different NTP servers. Mostly NTP on local router or even a public router.
Since last FW, NTP retries if there is no connection.
So I would still suspect something is wrong with NTP on your PC, maybe nonstandard implementation.
Or something with the network but that is not very likely. You would have other problems then..
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #353 on: December 24, 2024, 01:45:12 pm »
NTP timesync fails
Sometimes the scope does not sync the time (about 1 out of 8). I have setup my PC as NTP server, as i can not sync with external NTP servers.

I ruled out my PC, as a restart of the PC did not fix it. Only a restart of the scope fixed it.

Am i the only one with this problem, or do others just dont care about the time?

Works reliably for me. I sync with an external NTP server. (PTB if I recall correctly; looked up the IP address and entered it in the dialog.) If I power up the scope and the router at the bench at the same time, the scope boots faster than the router and its first NTP query fails. But it automatically retries and succeeds a minute or two later.

Using a PC-based NTP server might be part of the problem. (And it's less than ideal that the PC always needs to be on, isn't it?) Why can't you use an external NTP server? 
« Last Edit: December 24, 2024, 01:47:54 pm by ebastler »
 

Offline Furna

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #354 on: December 24, 2024, 01:45:37 pm »
NTP timesync fails
Sometimes the scope does not sync the time (about 1 out of 8). I have setup my PC as NTP server, as i can not sync with external NTP servers.

I ruled out my PC, as a restart of the PC did not fix it. Only a restart of the scope fixed it.

Am i the only one with this problem, or do others just dont care about the time?

Again ... we have a dedicated topic for generic arguments where you can ask for help on various situation.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/
IF your issue results in a firmware/software BUG than you can post it here.

Now coming to your issue with NTP: you already used Wireshark if I remember correctly. If your PC is the NTP server, just run Wireshark on it filtering per the scope IP address when you power on the scope.
Then and only then you can report here.
Thank you.
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.
 

Offline eTobey

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #355 on: December 25, 2024, 07:51:43 pm »
Persistence traces get discarded after choosing channel
Had the persistence running for a while, and had to change the channel for the right vertical scale (change, and not activate). All traces dissappeared.  :palm: :palm: :palm:
The same behaviour happens in stop mode. And also if just the menu for a channel is opened by the channel widgets on the screen, when it was selected before already. WHY, just why?

What should i call this? Issue, bug or "wanted behaviour"? I understand that those traces cant be scaled or moved, and i did not do this...

The kind of same behaviour and what i consider even worse happes when adjusting time delay with a math average trace in stop mode: Everything gone! It may take many minutes to get this data, and then its gone in an instant.


"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD issues/tips/workarounds (Updated 16. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline Furna

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #356 on: December 25, 2024, 07:54:27 pm »

What should i call this? Issue, bug or "wanted behaviour"? I understand that those traces cant be scaled or moved, and i did not do this...


You should discuss it on the other thread.

Happy Christmas.
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.
 

Offline eTobey

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #357 on: December 27, 2024, 04:42:01 pm »
Math channel ignores Vertical Ref setting (Fixed offset)
Compare the behaviour of a normal channel to a math channel. (manual page 217)
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD issues/tips/workarounds (Updated 16. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #358 on: December 27, 2024, 05:13:45 pm »
Math channel ignores Vertical Ref setting (Fixed offset)
Compare the behaviour of a normal channel to a math channel. (manual page 217)

Are you doing this to piss us off? We have been through this before, about 500 times: Describe what you did, tell us what you expected to see, tell us what you saw instead, attach a screenshot to illustrate. I have no intent to play a game of scavenger hunt, trying to figure out what you are talking about based on little clues.
 
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Offline Furna

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #359 on: December 27, 2024, 08:25:25 pm »
Math channel ignores Vertical Ref setting (Fixed offset)
Compare the behaviour of a normal channel to a math channel. (manual page 217)

Are you doing this to piss us off? We have been through this before, about 500 times: Describe what you did, tell us what you expected to see, tell us what you saw instead, attach a screenshot to illustrate. I have no intent to play a game of scavenger hunt, trying to figure out what you are talking about based on little clues.

For a while I thought he understood since yesterday he posted in the other topic ...
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #360 on: December 27, 2024, 09:33:16 pm »
Math channel ignores Vertical Ref setting (Fixed offset)
Compare the behaviour of a normal channel to a math channel. (manual page 217)

Are you doing this to piss us off? We have been through this before, about 500 times: Describe what you did, tell us what you expected to see, tell us what you saw instead, attach a screenshot to illustrate. I have no intent to play a game of scavenger hunt, trying to figure out what you are talking about based on little clues.

That would imply that he cares for our opinion. He doesn't. He demands the servants to obey...
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline eTobey

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #361 on: December 27, 2024, 09:55:44 pm »
Yes i understand that you might be sick and tired about all the bugs/issues i find, and that i usually keep it short. But why should i write something, that is already stated in the bloody manual? I even gave you the page. RTFM!

You should understand, that i am also a quite bit pissed for certain reasons...  :o


And guess what: i found another major issue, which hopefully is just a visual annoyance...
Here it is:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800-x-hd-persistence-mask-test-issue/msg5762649/#msg5762649

« Last Edit: December 28, 2024, 12:54:09 pm by eTobey »
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD issues/tips/workarounds (Updated 16. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #362 on: December 27, 2024, 10:08:28 pm »
And guess what: i found another major issue, which hopefully is just a visual annoyance...

Ooh, you found the mirror?
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
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Offline BillyO

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #363 on: December 28, 2024, 12:02:27 am »
I'm not sure this is an actual bug, but it is interesting and I wanted to share.  Attached is the frequency response of a bandwidth enhanced SDS814X and PP510 probe.  The probe was set to 10x, properly compensated and attached to a SDG6000X waveform generator with a BNC adapter and a 50 Ohm through terminator. The generator was swept from 1 MHz to 350 MHz and result displayed with FFT max hold and settings as shown.

What I found interesting is the increasing amplitude (to the tune of ~ 1db) from ~30 MHz to ~110 MHz.  For reference I have also attached a trace using just a 50 Ohm scope terminated RG-58 cable to rule out any amplitude flatness issues on the AWG and show the scope's "natural" roll-off. It seems like the input capacitance of the scope might be changing slightly with frequency. It is also possible that it is just the result of using the "cheap" supplied probes. Thoughts?
Since your signal generator is not a leveled output generator, it might be more informative if you run a Bode plot instead.  That will track Vo/Vin and give a more accurate BW for the probe and get rid of effects like loading due to the capacitance of the probe.
Bill  (Currently a Siglent fanboy)
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Online mawyatt

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #364 on: December 28, 2024, 12:54:32 pm »
I'm not sure this is an actual bug, but it is interesting and I wanted to share.  Attached is the frequency response of a bandwidth enhanced SDS814X and PP510 probe.  The probe was set to 10x, properly compensated and attached to a SDG6000X waveform generator with a BNC adapter and a 50 Ohm through terminator. The generator was swept from 1 MHz to 350 MHz and result displayed with FFT max hold and settings as shown.

What I found interesting is the increasing amplitude (to the tune of ~ 1db) from ~30 MHz to ~110 MHz.  For reference I have also attached a trace using just a 50 Ohm scope terminated RG-58 cable to rule out any amplitude flatness issues on the AWG and show the scope's "natural" roll-off. It seems like the input capacitance of the scope might be changing slightly with frequency. It is also possible that it is just the result of using the "cheap" supplied probes. Thoughts?
Since your signal generator is not a leveled output generator, it might be more informative if you run a Bode plot instead.  That will track Vo/Vin and give a more accurate BW for the probe and get rid of effects like loading due to the capacitance of the probe.

The Bode function only supports up to 120MHz (AWG dependent), not enough for DSO probe BW evaluations.

Best
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
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Offline BillyO

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #365 on: December 28, 2024, 02:59:45 pm »
The Bode function only supports up to 120MHz (AWG dependent), not enough for DSO probe BW evaluations.

Best
Yes, but it could be done manually as suggested by 2N3055 in another thread.  Although I tried it and got strange results.
Bill  (Currently a Siglent fanboy)
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Online mawyatt

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #366 on: December 28, 2024, 03:57:34 pm »
The Bode function only supports up to 120MHz (AWG dependent), not enough for DSO probe BW evaluations.

Best
Yes, but it could be done manually as suggested by 2N3055 in another thread.  Although I tried it and got strange results.

We sorta did this here.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5759401/#msg5759401

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dso-probe-effects-at-the-dut/

Best
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 
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Offline eTobey

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #367 on: December 29, 2024, 08:51:49 am »
The issue is becoming bigger. Am i the only one that has it?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800-x-hd-persistence-mask-test-issue/msg5764039/#msg5764039

If anyone of you could reproduce, it could be reported to siglent.
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD issues/tips/workarounds (Updated 16. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline Bill3745

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #368 on: December 30, 2024, 05:37:18 am »
The Bode function only supports up to 120MHz (AWG dependent), not enough for DSO probe BW evaluations.

Best
Yes, but it could be done manually as suggested by 2N3055 in another thread.  Although I tried it and got strange results.

We sorta did this here.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5759401/#msg5759401

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dso-probe-effects-at-the-dut/

Best

Thanks for the idea of using a Bode plot to factor out generator output level variations.  FWIW, my generator is pretty flat (+/- 0.2 db) from 1 - 350 MHz but, of course, that is using a 50 Ohm terminated connection and would not account for any probe loading issues.
Bill
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Online mawyatt

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #369 on: December 30, 2024, 04:03:15 pm »
The Bode function only supports up to 120MHz (AWG dependent), not enough for DSO probe BW evaluations.

Best
Yes, but it could be done manually as suggested by 2N3055 in another thread.  Although I tried it and got strange results.

We sorta did this here.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5759401/#msg5759401

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dso-probe-effects-at-the-dut/

Best

Thanks for the idea of using a Bode plot to factor out generator output level variations.  FWIW, my generator is pretty flat (+/- 0.2 db) from 1 - 350 MHz but, of course, that is using a 50 Ohm terminated connection and would not account for any probe loading issues.

The links above showed the effects of the DSO Probe loading on the DUT (SA input in this case), which is quite significant even at modest frequencies and more complex than a simple shunt RC!!

Best
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 

Offline Bill3745

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #370 on: December 30, 2024, 10:12:12 pm »
The Bode function only supports up to 120MHz (AWG dependent), not enough for DSO probe BW evaluations.

Best
Yes, but it could be done manually as suggested by 2N3055 in another thread.  Although I tried it and got strange results.

We sorta did this here.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5759401/#msg5759401

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dso-probe-effects-at-the-dut/

Best

Thanks for the idea of using a Bode plot to factor out generator output level variations.  FWIW, my generator is pretty flat (+/- 0.2 db) from 1 - 350 MHz but, of course, that is using a 50 Ohm terminated connection and would not account for any probe loading issues.

The links above showed the effects of the DSO Probe loading on the DUT (SA input in this case), which is quite significant even at modest frequencies and more complex than a simple shunt RC!!

Best


Thanks. If needed I'll pick this up in the other thread since it does not really belong here.
Bill
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Offline eTobey

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #371 on: December 31, 2024, 10:38:48 am »
Cursor measures screenborder
Between the pictures, only the timescale has been changed. Observe how the curser measure values change though.
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD issues/tips/workarounds (Updated 16. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #372 on: December 31, 2024, 10:54:32 am »
Cursor measures screenborder
Between the pictures, only the timescale has been changed. Observe how the curser measure values change though.

It is all there in your images.
You changed timebase. X1 X2 cursor got clipped to beginning of the screen. Measurement changed. What a shocker.
Another RTM. Or ask for help with understanding.
Not a bug.

EDIT: Thanks Furna!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2024, 01:26:11 pm by 2N3055 »
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
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Offline eTobey

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #373 on: December 31, 2024, 10:59:44 am »
I just want to post my top list about the bugs/issues i found. Feel free to discuss (in a professional way, with the right questions).
I will (try) to keep this, the links, and the linked posts updated.
Anyone is welcome to send me a message if one wants to add things to the list!

Ghost traces: (They do trigger the mask test!)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800-x-hd-persistence-mask-test-issue/msg5762649/#msg5762649

Cursor measures screenborder
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5766285/#msg5766285

Moving gate A, changes gate B unintentionally.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5523604/#msg5523604

Changing sample rate changes timebase:
Decreasing sample rate (fixed setting) changes timebase, but does not set the timebase back to the previous value, after setting the sample rate to its previous setting.
(1us/div goes up to 500ms/div, but only back to 5ms/div, after the sample rate has been set back to its previous value)

Persistence traces dissappear when selecting only a channel to display its scale:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5760405/#msg5760405

Measurement measures wrong edge:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-featureimprovment-disscusions/msg5470300/#msg5470300

Measurement on less points than acquired (presumably), is not indicated.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5527156/#msg5527156

Trigger rate decreases significantly when sample rate is decreased.
ALSO in sequence mode!

File letter case issue
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5774615/#msg5774615

General tipps and workarounds:
Fine adjust for math channels:
It can NOT be set with the knob, but it CAN be set via the menu.

Saving lot of things? Beware of the save button!
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5776675/#msg5776675

Stop drops capture and measurement fails workaround:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bug-reports-firmware/msg5783215/#msg5783215

Overlaying labels issue:
It can be somewhat overcome, by setting offsets, and then realign the trace vertically. In case you want to compare: all have to be the same scale, and the one without offset has to be activated in order to show the proper vertical scale (for all channels). One has to keep that always in mind, or otherwise one would be misslead.
(See picture attached "Labels with offset")


« Last Edit: January 19, 2025, 06:20:18 pm by eTobey »
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD issues/tips/workarounds (Updated 16. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline Furna

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Re: SDS800X HD Bug Reports + Firmware
« Reply #374 on: December 31, 2024, 11:17:51 am »
X1 cursor got clipped to beginning of the screen.

Doesn't change the result but ... X2 cursor got clipped to beginning of the screen?

Quote
Another RTM. Or ask for help with understanding.
Not a bug.

Cannot agree more.
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.
 
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