SDS800X HD Wanted Features

[Martin72]

Relax...
Upon request, I have renamed my thread.
The reasoning was coherent and I would be the last person to deny someone like electronics hobbyist that, hopefully for understandable reasons.
Given the length, content and "age", it seems logical to continue here, with feature requests.
For general discussion, and there seems to be a need for it, we have the SDS800X HD threads.
You can also post there first if something is not clear and you need help.
If there is still a need to talk about this, we can continue it in the general 800 thread.

[ebastler]

Feature suggestion:
Measurment mode:
- When long click on the measurement table, activate its measurement cursors.
- When cursors for measurement are activated, show what table it belongs to. Have a red rectangle around the table or soemthing.

I like the first suggestions a lot! When I add measurement cursors, I typically do it as an afterthought: I already have the measurement set up, but may start to wonder "Is it really measuring what I want it to"? Having a quick way to bring up the cursors, without going through the menu again, would be great.

The second one is less important for my personal way of using the cursors: I tyipcally use the cursors in a targeted way, on one measurement only, and did not get confused yet which measurement the cursors are showing. But I can see that if you want to check multiple measurements in a row, highlighting the one which the cursors refer to can be helpful. Maybe a blue background for that measurement's name (table headline) could work? 

[Martin72]

Wanted:
Displaying the waveform update rate (as seen on the new Magnova scope).
Has already been heard and judged to be a good feature, but has not yet been added to the list.

[electronics hobbyist]

Feature suggestion:
Measurment mode:
- When long click on the measurement table, activate its measurement cursors.

I like the first suggestions a lot! When I add measurement cursors, I typically do it as an afterthought: I already have the measurement set up, but may start to wonder "Is it really measuring what I want it to"? Having a quick way to bring up the cursors, without going through the menu again, would be great.

Added to Wanted Feature No.34; Long press is a good idea, and it would be good if you could add it to the measurement cursor with the right mouse button.

[electronics hobbyist]

Wanted:
Displaying the waveform update rate (as seen on the new Magnova scope).
Has already been heard and judged to be a good feature, but has not yet been added to the list.

Added to Wanted Feature No.35. This way, there is no need to connect to Trigout to test the waveform capture rate.

[Performa01]

Wanted:
Displaying the waveform update rate (as seen on the new Magnova scope).
Has already been heard and judged to be a good feature, but has not yet been added to the list.

Added to Wanted Feature No.35. This way, there is no need to connect to Trigout to test the waveform capture rate.

This would be a nice (yet not very important) feature; only question remains: where to put that information?

We already have no space for the really useful information, like the Acquisition mode, which has to be written right into the trace area of the screen.

This is acceptable only because this information is essential - especially in higher class instruments for Average Acquisition, where we want to see the number of averages completed so far, or ERES which helps us estimate the actual bandwidth but also Peak Detect, which destroys the original waveform and helps explain unexpected results in cases where it's used thoughtlessly.

There is absolutely no unused space left, especially on the SDS800X HD, where there is less space available on the screen becaue of the bigger fonts and we already had to sacrifice the Math menu item for that.

Maybe we should request an (optional) Info box in the bottom area, similar to the Timebase info box, where we can have the Acquisition mode together with waveform update rate. In general, info displays in the trace area should be optional and movable at the very least - smilar to the FFT info block.

[ebastler]

There is absolutely no unused space left, especially on the SDS800X HD.

I have been wondering about the area in the lower right. Do we really need time & date there?

With the SDS800X HD (lacking an on-board RTC) it is reassuring to see that the NTP sync has worked properly -- but a little icon, similar to the network and USB status icons, would be enough for that. I don't need to see the actual time there all the time; would be happy to go into the Utility menu if I want to check it.

A date/time stamp may be useful in screenshots. But it could be placed somewhere over the top left menu, which is of no relevance in screenshots.

Edit: Actually, a related thought about the Siglent logo on the screen. It is a bit squeezed-in there, like an afterthought; doesn't look great. And it is not needed at all during live operation of the scope, where the user sees the scope brand on the front panel. So it would be sufficient to show the logo in screenshots. It could also be inserted in the upper left for screenshots, together with time & date, replacing the main menu.

[electronics hobbyist]

Maybe we should request an (optional) Info box in the bottom area, similar to the Timebase info box, where we can have the Acquisition mode together with waveform update rate. In general, info displays in the trace area should be optional and movable at the very least - smilar to the FFT info block.

request an (optional) Info box in the bottom area is a good solution. For example, if I set up "Peak Detect" through the touch screen now, I need to click four times. If add an info box, I can click twice to complete this operation.

[rf-loop]

In the following, I do not in any way take a position on proposal number 35. My position on it is completely neutral.

A long time ago, someone who bought a Siglent oscilloscope asked me about the wfm/s speed in some of his individual test case. He did not have another oscilloscope or a counter suitable for this purpose that could have been connected to the Trig Out output. (Also, sometimes using the counter can produce strange results, depending on the features of the counter)

Well, I then asked him why you don't use the oscilloscope itself. It knows it, and in fact it knows it perfectly.
Well, because for fun, I'm some times a bit like a teacher, specially because his age... and I didn't want to give him a direct answer.  For that people own insight to arise... because it is important.

Well, I gave him a hint and said that if the hint, after thinking it, doesn't lead to an answer, then call tomorrow or come visit.

This was the hint:
You know that the oscilloscope gives a time stamp for each individual acquistion (for each single waveform). Think about it.

----

Do I need now tell .. as steps 1-2-3-4--- how to do it. /;8

[Performa01]

Well, I then asked him why you don't use the oscilloscope itself. It knows it, and in fact it knows it perfectly.

Well, this is my preferred method too (even though monitoring the trigger output is faster), yet it does not work in XY-mode.

[hansibull]

Serial decoding

I do a lot of RS485 serial decoding on an SDS2000X HD, and one of the things I miss that the older R&S RTB2004 it replaced had was the ability to show the entire "message" as a single frame/packet, and not as single bytes in a list, like the Siglents does it.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5270949/#msg5270949

I've been an R&S RTB2004 user for several years but decided to buy an SDS2000X HD to use as a secondary scope.
I liked it better than the RTB2004, so the Siglent is now the main scope. And after 3D printing that VESA mount for it, it's such a convenient instrument!

However, one thing I haven't figured out is the UART bus table.
I do a lot of half-duplex RS485 decoding, and with the RTB2004 it would display each "frame" (burst of characters) on a single line in the table. The Siglent on the other hand, just places each character on a new line in the table, and I end up having to fiddle a lot to compare two received "frames".

Is there a way to have the bus table look like the RTB2004 that grouts the received data in "frames" rather than filling a list I must scroll through?

electronics hobbyist, can you add the following feature to the list as well? I have an SDS2000X HD at work, and I've ordered a 1000X HD to have at my bench at home, but this (missing) feature I'm pointing out applies for the entire Siglent lineup AFAIK, at least the 800X HD, 1000X HD, and 2000X HD. I know many other manufacturers do it exactly the way Siglent does it, but that doesn't mean it could have been done better!

[electronics hobbyist]

electronics hobbyist, can you add the following feature to the list as well? I have an SDS2000X HD at work, and I've ordered a 1000X HD to have at my bench at home, but this (missing) feature I'm pointing out applies for the entire Siglent lineup AFAIK, at least the 800X HD, 1000X HD, and 2000X HD. I know many other manufacturers do it exactly the way Siglent does it, but that doesn't mean it could have been done better!

This is Wanted Feature No.19, and I have added your link as well.

[tautech]

Serial decoding

I do a lot of RS485 serial decoding on an SDS2000X HD, and one of the things I miss that the older R&S RTB2004 it replaced had was the ability to show the entire "message" as a single frame/packet, and not as single bytes in a list, like the Siglents does it.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5270949/#msg5270949

I've been an R&S RTB2004 user for several years but decided to buy an SDS2000X HD to use as a secondary scope.
I liked it better than the RTB2004, so the Siglent is now the main scope. And after 3D printing that VESA mount for it, it's such a convenient instrument!

However, one thing I haven't figured out is the UART bus table.
I do a lot of half-duplex RS485 decoding, and with the RTB2004 it would display each "frame" (burst of characters) on a single line in the table. The Siglent on the other hand, just places each character on a new line in the table, and I end up having to fiddle a lot to compare two received "frames".

Is there a way to have the bus table look like the RTB2004 that grouts the received data in "frames" rather than filling a list I must scroll through?

electronics hobbyist, can you add the following feature to the list as well? I have an SDS2000X HD at work, and I've ordered a 1000X HD to have at my bench at home, but this (missing) feature I'm pointing out applies for the entire Siglent lineup AFAIK, at least the 800X HD, 1000X HD, and 2000X HD. I know many other manufacturers do it exactly the way Siglent does it, but that doesn't mean it could have been done better!

Good suggestion for the entire platform range and one I believe could be accomplished quite simply by adding a menu View (type) option in the Decode List comprising of a Bytes or Frames choice, Bytes being the current list default view.

There certainly is sufficient room in the Decode Lits menu to add a View header with Bytes and Frames as the pop out choices.
In addition just the List headers would require modifying for a Frame view labels.

See screenshot and suggest where a new View (type) header should be added.....IMO directly below Display.

[AndyC_772]

Just unboxed my new scope and getting to grips with it - apologies if this is just a setting which can be changed somewhere, but it seems unintuitive and a limitation...

I'm probing a CAN signal - actually one of the training outputs from my MSOX3104A - and before I can decode it, I need to know the bit rate.

I couldn't find an automated measurement that gives this quickly and easily. IIRC it was added in firmware after release on the Agilent, and it's handy. I think it just measures the minimum observed pulse width (either positive or negative) within the captured data.

Feature request 1: bit rate measurement, please!

In the absence of an automatic measurement, I figured I'd just do it the old-fashioned way. Capture a packet, find the narrowest pulse and assume it's 1 bit wide. Then, put the cursors on the edges as accurately as possible, and measure their separation.

The odd behaviour is that the delta-X measurement on screen doesn't show the distance between the cursors if one of them is off screen; instead, it 'clips' to the edge of the screen, and if both are off screen then it just reports the width of the screen, or zero if both cursors are off to the same side.

That's really misleading. It clearly remembers the correct cursor positions if they're pushed off screen, because they come back to the right place if I adjust the time base to bring them back.

If I were feeling unkind, I'd call this a bug, though it's clearly intentional behaviour. I just can't think of any circumstances when I'd want to measure between a cursor and the edge of the display, as opposed to between the two cursors.

Feature request 2: delta-X time measurement actually measures the time between X1 and X2 even if one or both of them is off screen - not between a visible cursor and the edge of the screen.

(Example photos: both cursors on screen, showing delta-X = 8.01us, and the effect of just speeding up the time base 1 click; this pushes X1 off the left side of the screen, and the delta-X readout becomes 6.77us which is effectively meaningless).

[2N3055]

Just unboxed my new scope and getting to grips with it - apologies if this is just a setting which can be changed somewhere, but it seems unintuitive and a limitation...

I'm probing a CAN signal - actually one of the training outputs from my MSOX3104A - and before I can decode it, I need to know the bit rate.

I couldn't find an automated measurement that gives this quickly and easily. IIRC it was added in firmware after release on the Agilent, and it's handy. I think it just measures the minimum observed pulse width (either positive or negative) within the captured data.

Feature request 1: bit rate measurement, please!

In the absence of an automatic measurement, I figured I'd just do it the old-fashioned way. Capture a packet, find the narrowest pulse and assume it's 1 bit wide. Then, put the cursors on the edges as accurately as possible, and measure their separation.

The odd behaviour is that the delta-X measurement on screen doesn't show the distance between the cursors if one of them is off screen; instead, it 'clips' to the edge of the screen, and if both are off screen then it just reports the width of the screen, or zero if both cursors are off to the same side.

That's really misleading. It clearly remembers the correct cursor positions if they're pushed off screen, because they come back to the right place if I adjust the time base to bring them back.

If I were feeling unkind, I'd call this a bug, though it's clearly intentional behaviour. I just can't think of any circumstances when I'd want to measure between a cursor and the edge of the display, as opposed to between the two cursors.

Feature request 2: delta-X time measurement actually measures the time between X1 and X2 even if one or both of them is off screen - not between a visible cursor and the edge of the screen.

(Example photos: both cursors on screen, showing delta-X = 8.01us, and the effect of just speeding up the time base 1 click; this pushes X1 off the left side of the screen, and the delta-X readout becomes 6.77us which is effectively meaningless).

I asked about Bit rate measurement long time ago... Will repeat...
In meantime depending on signal being idle high or low, i enable +Pulse Width or +Pulse Width and stats and look for minimum value. 1/t gives frequency i.e baud rate.
But yeah I miss that too, coming from Keysight. Not really needed (you can do what I explained, or just use cursors on visually shortest pulse) but a giant time saver.
Especially if you are doing µC work and doing custom baud rates etc...

As for cursor behaviour it is not a bug.
Scope's capture ENDS with the end of screen.
So it will remember what you set for cursor, because you can magnify the portion of screen to set cursor more accurately, magnify other event set that one, and then st time base to have both cursors on the screen to measure.

[hansibull]

Good suggestion for the entire platform range and one I believe could be accomplished quite simply by adding a menu View (type) option in the Decode List comprising of a Bytes or Frames choice, Bytes being the current list default view.

Ideally, they should also add a "packet timeout" value so that closely spaced packets/bursts of data can easily be separated. but the RTB2004 doesn't have such functionality, and I've never had any issues with UART "packets" being interpreted as one single packet.

[electronics hobbyist]

Feature request 1: bit rate measurement, please!

This is good feature, will added to wanted feature No.36.

[AndyC_772]

As for cursor behaviour it is not a bug.
Scope's capture ENDS with the end of screen.

Try: capture a whole pulse, stop acquisition, then use the magnifier to zoom in on each edge individually to position a cursor accurately. The delta-X interval is reported correctly, regardless of what portion of the trace is on screen.

Then, exit magnifier mode and zoom in on one of the edges by changing the time base and position instead. The delta-X measurement is now clipped to the edge of the display.

The two methods result in different behaviour, and that can't be right. I humbly suggest that the distance from a cursor to the edge of the screen isn't ever useful, could be misleading, and should instead always be the distance between cursors - just as it is if the magnifier is used.

[2N3055]

Serial decoding

I do a lot of RS485 serial decoding on an SDS2000X HD, and one of the things I miss that the older R&S RTB2004 it replaced had was the ability to show the entire "message" as a single frame/packet, and not as single bytes in a list, like the Siglents does it.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5270949/#msg5270949

I've been an R&S RTB2004 user for several years but decided to buy an SDS2000X HD to use as a secondary scope.
I liked it better than the RTB2004, so the Siglent is now the main scope. And after 3D printing that VESA mount for it, it's such a convenient instrument!

However, one thing I haven't figured out is the UART bus table.
I do a lot of half-duplex RS485 decoding, and with the RTB2004 it would display each "frame" (burst of characters) on a single line in the table. The Siglent on the other hand, just places each character on a new line in the table, and I end up having to fiddle a lot to compare two received "frames".

Is there a way to have the bus table look like the RTB2004 that grouts the received data in "frames" rather than filling a list I must scroll through?

electronics hobbyist, can you add the following feature to the list as well? I have an SDS2000X HD at work, and I've ordered a 1000X HD to have at my bench at home, but this (missing) feature I'm pointing out applies for the entire Siglent lineup AFAIK, at least the 800X HD, 1000X HD, and 2000X HD. I know many other manufacturers do it exactly the way Siglent does it, but that doesn't mean it could have been done better!

Good suggestion for the entire platform range and one I believe could be accomplished quite simply by adding a menu View (type) option in the Decode List comprising of a Bytes or Frames choice, Bytes being the current list default view.

There certainly is sufficient room in the Decode Lits menu to add a View header with Bytes and Frames as the pop out choices.
In addition just the List headers would require modifying for a Frame view labels.

See screenshot and suggest where a new View (type) header should be added.....IMO directly below Display.

What Bytes and Frames of choice for UART ? What does that even mean. It is not what RTB2000 has.

With UART we can have characters as delimiters or we can have timeout per burst.
RTB2000 has only timeout feature.

This improvement was already suggested and if Siglent likes it will be properly "cooked" and served when meal is done.

[2N3055]

As for cursor behaviour it is not a bug.
Scope's capture ENDS with the end of screen.

Try: capture a whole pulse, stop acquisition, then use the magnifier to zoom in on each edge individually to position a cursor accurately. The delta-X interval is reported correctly, regardless of what portion of the trace is on screen.

Then, exit magnifier mode and zoom in on one of the edges by changing the time base and position instead. The delta-X measurement is now clipped to the edge of the display.

The two methods result in different behaviour, and that can't be right. I humbly suggest that the distance from a cursor to the edge of the screen isn't ever useful, could be misleading, and should instead always be the distance between cursors - just as it is if the magnifier is used.

It can be right.

Extent of data being processed is what you see in main window.
If you need more with detail you use zoom.

That is architectural thing and is what it is.

[ebastler]

Improvement request: Remove redundant digits in axis labels

I have admitted to being a bit obsessive about axis labelling before... The Siglent software does a nice job in many respects -- it chooses consistent units and formatting along the whole axis, and lets me adjust vertical and horizontal offsets to "clean" round values via the encoders, so the labels become round numbers too.

But if I do so, I still get redundant trailing zeros on all the label values. In the attached screenshot, every axis label has two extra trailing zeros which could (and should, in my opinion) be omitted. That would reduce screen clutter and would make the label values easier to read -- both during live operation and in screenshots for documentation purposes.

Edit: Bonus points for adding a space in front of positive values on the Y axis, to make the decimal points of positive and negative numbers align. Did I mention that I am a bit obsessive in this area? 

[AndyC_772]

Have been playing with my 804X all morning, and so far I'm really impressed. Other than the slightly sluggish UI (in particular, the waveform stops updating for an annoying long period of time when I adjust the trigger position), it's hard to believe this is a £355 scope. Especially when it's already shown me something interesting about a critical signal on my current project that I wasn't even aware of after a day probing it with my Agilent.

So, feature request #3: Can anything be done about the delay between adjusting the horizontal trigger time, and the waveform update resuming?

And feature request #4: Use full memory depth for single shot capture. On the Agilent, a single-shot capture grabs more data than just what fits on the screen, so I can press 'single' then pan and zoom the result, including a lot more pre- and post-trigger data. On the Siglent, pressing 'single' fills the screen, but the acquisition begins and ends with what can be displayed, even if that leaves memory unused. Why not fill the memory, so I can trigger on an interesting event and then scroll back and forward to see what happened before and after?

[ebastler]

Improvement Request: Remember "Navigate by History Frame" mode

Navigation defaults to "by time". Frankly, I have not understood what that mode is needed for at all: I have a dedicated horizontal position knobfor continuous adjustment, or can call up a keypad quickly via the Timebase info box if I want to go to an absolute value.

I would much rather use Navigation -- and the dedicated arrow buttons on the front panel -- to navigate by history frame: Stop an acquisition, and have the buttons ready to step through the history frames right away.

But Navigation keeps falling back into "by time" mode. Even if I change the mode via the Navigation menu, as soon as I restart acquisition it goes back to "by time", and stays like that when the acquisition is stopped again. 

Could this be changed? If I have chosen "Navigate by History frame" mode once, remember that mode, and bring it back when the acquisition is stopped? (Also save this choice and bring it back after a re-boot please.)

[Martin72]

On the Siglent, pressing 'single' fills the screen, but the acquisition begins and ends with what can be displayed, even if that leaves memory unused. Why not fill the memory, so I can trigger on an interesting event and then scroll back and forward to see what happened before and after?

Set the memory to "max"(or choose the value) instead of "auto" (default) in the acquisition menu.
Select a lower timebase than needed, stop, then zoom in.
Zoom out is not avaible on this model, 1000X HD, 2000Xplus.
2000X HD and 5000X could zoom out when setting the memory management to manual.

[Performa01]

Navigation defaults to "by time". Frankly, I have not understood what that mode is needed for at all: I have a dedicated horizontal position knobfor continuous adjustment, or can call up a keypad quickly via the Timebase info box if I want to go to an absolute value.

As already explained once, the Time navigation was one of only two methods to position a zoom window at high zoom-factors or set an extreme trigger delay on the older SDS1004X-E series. It is not really needed on the touch screen instruments anymore, yet it’s the only one that is possible at any time.

I would much rather use Navigation -- and the dedicated arrow buttons on the front panel -- to navigate by history frame: Stop an acquisition, and have the buttons ready to step through the history frames right away.

I could answer like this: Frankly, I have not understood what that mode is needed for at all: I have the very same navigation possibilities directly in the history menu. And indeed, I have never ever in almost ten years used Navigate for browsing the history of a Siglent DSO.

It might have to do with the fact that the higher-class instruments (which I normally use) have increasingly less buttons on their front panels. The SDS2000X Plus still has Navigate and History buttons, whereas the SDS2000X HD has none of them and SDS3000X HD is the same. Even more importantly: none of them have the back-, pause- and forward-buttons; these are really exclusive to the SDS800X HD - which I only use if I must (e.g. to produce screenshots for a review 😉), because of its small screen and the almost unbearable (for me) high acoustic noise level. Consequently, I’m not used to these buttons at all. I’m rather used to the History button on the front panel, which I’ve consequently programmed into the Quick Action button of all the instruments that don’t have one anymore. Never using auto-hide for the menus adds to the fact that I’m not missing the button navigation at all.

In my opinion, it was a big fail to make the SDS800 so similar to the 1000X-E, despite being a touch scope. Whoever directly upgrades from 800X HD to 2000X HD will complain: “where are all my beloved buttons gone?!” I was the same when I got the SDS2000X HD after I was used to the SDS2000X Plus. Yet I realized pretty quickly that this is now the new trend – most of the front panel dedicated to the screen and less buttons – and that I just have to live with it.

Having said all that, it probably wouldn’t be a big problem to remember the last setting for Navigate, even though time navigation is the only one that is always available. So it would have to default to that one again whenever neither History nor Search results are available.