SDS800X HD Wanted Features

[2N3055]

Have been playing with my 804X all morning, and so far I'm really impressed. Other than the slightly sluggish UI (in particular, the waveform stops updating for an annoying long period of time when I adjust the trigger position), it's hard to believe this is a £355 scope. Especially when it's already shown me something interesting about a critical signal on my current project that I wasn't even aware of after a day probing it with my Agilent.

So, feature request #3: Can anything be done about the delay between adjusting the horizontal trigger time, and the waveform update resuming?

And feature request #4: Use full memory depth for single shot capture. On the Agilent, a single-shot capture grabs more data than just what fits on the screen, so I can press 'single' then pan and zoom the result, including a lot more pre- and post-trigger data. On the Siglent, pressing 'single' fills the screen, but the acquisition begins and ends with what can be displayed, even if that leaves memory unused. Why not fill the memory, so I can trigger on an interesting event and then scroll back and forward to see what happened before and after?

To grab long memory, simply change timebase to long capture it and then inspect at will.
Siglent can do same thing just adjust to different workflow.

What you ask for is not possible as is, because architecture is optimized for other more useful function.

Megazoom IV has pathetic amount of memory.
With 3 channels it has only 2 MPts per channel.
With only one it has full 4Mpts. That is max. That is 8 bits, so 4MBytes

Smallest SDS800xHD has 16bit x 100MPts.  200MBytes.

Whatever Keysight does is not applicable here directly.
In addition to that Keysight does that because otherwise that memory is useless.

Unlike Siglent that uses full memory all the time.
Yes, Siglent uses all the memory all the time.
Unlike Keysight, it keeps historic record of thousands previous triggers.
Similar to Segmented mode, but always running.

That is it's architecture. For long captures you have to deliberately take a long capture, not rely on architectural side-effect of a device.

As a user of both MSX3000T and several Siglents, all the differences I don't even notice anymore. I just learned you drive them slightly differently....
And then I switch to Picoscope and same thing.

[AndyC_772]

Improvement Request: Remember "Navigate by History Frame" mode
...
If I have chosen "Navigate by History frame" mode once, remember that mode, and bring it back when the acquisition is stopped? (Also save this choice and bring it back after a re-boot please.)

+1 for this 

[eTobey]

I could answer like this: Frankly, I have not understood what that mode is needed for at all: I have the very same navigation possibilities directly in the history menu. And indeed, I have never ever in almost ten years used Navigate for browsing the history of a Siglent DSO.

That goes like "i have always done it like this, and it worked". His suggestion is a very good one, that i think i made too. That navigate button is much quicker pressed, and without the possibility of hitting the wrong button on the touch screen. History in the menu would need twice as much button presses, if that navigate suggestion would be properly implemented.

[eTobey]

Why not fill the memory, so I can trigger on an interesting event and then scroll back and forward to see what happened before and after?

This is comething i never missed currently, but what my cheap handheld scope had. It might be technically only possible/easy to do for after the trigger though.

But then it would need a dedicated mode/option for it, since it is not always wanted.

[eTobey]

Suggestion:
Some more details in the manual. Just 3 sentences is not enough to explain a trigger ( this may also apply to other topics in the manual).
Especially i dont really see what the difference of the qualified trigger is to the delay trigger.

What set conditions?

"The settings of source A is similar..." in which way? Where is the difference?

I dont know how i could combine a level and an edge to source A. 

[Martin72]

Speaking of cursors...
I don't really like it when the screen is plastered with data, so I find the MAUI from lecroy a more discreet solution:



The decoder functions are also "more", including search functions and what you want to show/hide.
The following pictures are an example of how it could work, I can hardly imagine that something similar could be realized with the 800X HD, then rather with the larger models(On the other hand, I would of course be very pleasantly surprised if it did).
You should keep that in mind anyway, just because a lot of feature requests have been included here doesn't mean that all of them will (or can) be implemented.
And certainly not in a short space of time.

[tautech]

Snip....
It might have to do with the fact that the higher-class instruments (which I normally use) have increasingly less buttons on their front panels. The SDS2000X Plus still has Navigate and History buttons, whereas the SDS2000X HD has none of them and SDS3000X HD is the same. Even more importantly: none of them have the back-, pause- and forward-buttons; these are really exclusive to the SDS800X HD - which I only use if I must (e.g. to produce screenshots for a review 😉), because of its small screen and the almost unbearable (for me) high acoustic noise level. Consequently, I’m not used to these buttons at all. I’m rather used to the History button on the front panel, which I’ve consequently programmed into the Quick Action button of all the instruments that don’t have one anymore. Never using auto-hide for the menus adds to the fact that I’m not missing the button navigation at all.

In my opinion, it was a big fail to make the SDS800 so similar to the 1000X-E, despite being a touch scope. Whoever directly upgrades from 800X HD to 2000X HD will complain: “where are all my beloved buttons gone?!” I was the same when I got the SDS2000X HD after I was used to the SDS2000X Plus. Yet I realized pretty quickly that this is now the new trend – most of the front panel dedicated to the screen and less buttons – and that I just have to live with it.

There is good reason SDS2000X and above are all supplied with a wireless mouse. 

The only exception that uses the same compact layout is SDS1000X HD.

[tautech]

Have been playing with my 804X all morning, and so far I'm really impressed. Other than the slightly sluggish UI (in particular, the waveform stops updating for an annoying long period of time when I adjust the trigger position), it's hard to believe this is a £355 scope.

Yep, a massive step up from the X-E range.

So, feature request #3: Can anything be done about the delay between adjusting the horizontal trigger time, and the waveform update resuming?

As you use it more you will discover this is by design and the HW resources available.

ANY operator changes must flush all previous measurement and History records and wait for the user to fully determine their correct settings before everything that's happening in the background recommences......these are proper analytical devices not just something that displays wiggly lines.

And feature request #4: Use full memory depth for single shot capture. On the Agilent, a single-shot capture grabs more data than just what fits on the screen, so I can press 'single' then pan and zoom the result, including a lot more pre- and post-trigger data. On the Siglent, pressing 'single' fills the screen, but the acquisition begins and ends with what can be displayed, even if that leaves memory unused. Why not fill the memory, so I can trigger on an interesting event and then scroll back and forward to see what happened before and after?

Capture methodology by design has mimicked LeCroy and requires a different workflow to achieve the same functionality as scopes that can zoom out.

OR by using a slow timebase and the Zoom feature and the zoom window active before capture. Try it. 

From SDS2000X HD and up Fixed Mem depth is offered which can offer an order of magnitude more zoom out than the scope you are used to....when the advantage of deep memory displays itself.

[electronics hobbyist]

I could answer like this: Frankly, I have not understood what that mode is needed for at all: I have the very same navigation possibilities directly in the history menu. And indeed, I have never ever in almost ten years used Navigate for browsing the history of a Siglent DSO.

That goes like "i have always done it like this, and it worked". His suggestion is a very good one, that i think i made too. That navigate button is much quicker pressed, and without the possibility of hitting the wrong button on the touch screen. History in the menu would need twice as much button presses, if that navigate suggestion would be properly implemented.

Performa01 shared his experience in using it. After getting used to the 800xhd method, if you buy 1000xhd, you will not be used to it, because these physical buttons are missing.

Finally, everyone formed a unified opinion on saving the navigation settings.

I think it is reasonable to save the settings. When saving as a history frame, in the running state, in addition to the type menu, other menus are grayed out, and the history is automatically opened when stopping, and it can be operated, which is more efficient. Even if it is in the running state, click the navigation to automatically stop and open the history. The details may be more complicated and need to be considered.

Will be added to the wanted feature No.37

[KungFuJosh]

wanted feature No.37

37? Yikes. I think you all need to decide on a top 10 most important feature request list. The longer your list gets, the less likely it is for anybody to look at it.

[electronics hobbyist]

Yes, I will list a top x later, thank you for your suggestion.
When a suggestion is satisfied, the top x will be updated again.

[eTobey]

There is good reason SDS2000X and above are all supplied with a wireless mouse. 

Buttons are quicker, and you can use them without looking at the scope.

[electronics hobbyist]

Speaking of cursors...
I don't really like it when the screen is plastered with data, so I find the MAUI from lecroy a more discreet solution:
The following pictures are an example of how it could work, I can hardly imagine that something similar could be realized with the 800X HD, then rather with the larger models(On the other hand, I would of course be very pleasantly surprised if it did).

The bottom space of 800X HD is too limited. If it is a large screen, can consider adding a cursor display Style and applying cursor blocks at the bottom to display information.

Referring to the attached image, reduce the font size and apply for two information blocks, displaying X and Y respectively.

[tautech]

There is good reason SDS2000X and above are all supplied with a wireless mouse. 

Buttons are quicker, and you can use them without looking at the scope.

Dunno what POS mouse you are using and why you would wanna take your eyes from the display when driving a scope. 

[eTobey]

Dunno what POS mouse you are using and why you would wanna take your eyes from the display when driving a scope. 

I was just an example 

[eTobey]

Yes, I will list a top x later, thank you for your suggestion.

I would be a good idea to have a poll, about what feature are needed/liked the most. You can create one here in the forum.

[rf-loop]

Referring to the attached image, reduce the font size and apply for two information blocks, displaying X and Y respectively.

In these matters, however, we have to remember things related to human physiology when thinking about the user interface. One important thing is visual ergonomics. Regarding this aspect, a good design must take into account a wide range of operating conditions. In addition, it is very important that these devices can be used by the very young and on the other hand by the very elderly. The fact that there are various eye imperfections in all age groups, and in addition, even if the eyes of a fighter pilot are 30 years old, the eyes may change with age, for example the eye's ability to focus at different distances weakens and many other problems. In addition, some have nearsightedness and some have so-called farsightedness. Then there are different types of glasses. Those near-far combination glasses are not problem-free at all.

Of course, money and what you want are at odds. Also, as annoying as it is, the time that can be used for planning is also a limit. Someone says that the code doesn't cost much. It costs time. When the release date is approaching and there is a huge amount of things ahead and limited resources. Changing devices after release has its pros and cons. Someone may think that by doing some small thing differently... but there may be something iron level in front of you. Which, in turn, has been chosen as a compromise in relation to several different variables.

For example, as a myopic person myself, I don't want to change glasses all the time.
If I take the glasses off completely I can see close as well as any other solder with a microscope. The oscilloscope cannot always be located in an optimal place for vision. The eyes of the oscilloscope user are not always the flawless eyes of a young person with excellent accommodation. Then there are the various larger and smaller individual differences related to smelling colors. Someone can already have gray cataracts starting in their forties...etc,

Fonts cannot be reduced any more than what has been done now.
and for example now that the oscilloscope has got a changeable font size. The bigger one takes up space quite annoyingly, but many users are almost forced to use it. When working 8 hours a day with an oscilloscope, it is good to avoid excessive eye strain.

If someone is of the opinion that an oscilloscope does not belong to a 60-year-old or an 80-year-old, then let them grow up or just hang out in kindergarten. I know several people over 80 years old who use oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers and vector circuit analyzers. I myself have used an oscilloscope etc., not very long, only 60 years.

This is only because the design of the user interface of the oscilloscope is a little more than just wanting everything nice quickly and a lot and possibly without thinking about a wide user base and very different operating environments and situations. The fact that the devices are designed by young inexperienced novices who have just graduated from school and have almost no extensive experience in using measuring devices. It shows.
Sometimes I told someone that before starting to design equipment it would be good to read, for example, old HP journals and familiarize yourself with what it is all about. They are outdated, but they still provide a lot of information for planning in terms of the clear interface between man and machine. One of the fads these days is touchscreens, which are everywhere. Great in the right places and creepy in the wrong places. Take a look at a car. The driver fumbles through menus on the touch panel to adjust the seat to heat or something else, and his eyes are there on the screen because that action requires optical feedback. There will be trucks with which the meeting speed can be 50 m/s and they will dodge from a meter away from their nose. That's why - I didn't choose Tsla for my electric car.
 

The designer of the user interface must have strong knowledge and a broad interdisciplinary understanding of human physiology, specifically in such a way that it covers more than the "standard human" of physiology textbooks.
When it's not... well, you see it everywhere and a lot. The time for doing well is history. There is no time for that nowadays - because we have made such choices.


Of course, some "optimization" in the placement of different things on the screen can be done in a few things on the screen of this oscilloscope, but the limit value has been reached in font reduction and partially already undershot - but as a compromise dictated by "necessity". I wouldn't reduce it anymore. If it is a problem, the solution must be found in a different way than by reducing the font size.

[pdenisowski]

In these matters, however, we have to remember things related to human physiology when thinking about the user interface. One important thing is visual ergonomics. Regarding this aspect, a good design must take into account a wide range of operating conditions. In addition, it is very important that these devices can be used by the very young and on the other hand by the very elderly. The fact that there are various eye imperfections in all age groups, and in addition, even if the eyes of a fighter pilot are 30 years old, the eyes may change with age, for example the eye's ability to focus at different distances weakens and many other problems. In addition, some have nearsightedness and some have so-called farsightedness. Then there are different types of glasses. Those near-far combination glasses are not problem-free at all.

Of course, money and what you want are at odds. Also, as annoying as it is, the time that can be used for planning is also a limit. Someone says that the code doesn't cost much. It costs time. When the release date is approaching and there is a huge amount of things ahead and limited resources. Changing devices after release has its pros and cons. Someone may think that by doing some small thing differently... but there may be something iron level in front of you. Which, in turn, has been chosen as a compromise in relation to several different variables.

For example, as a myopic person myself, I don't want to change glasses all the time.
If I take the glasses off completely I can see close as well as any other solder with a microscope. The oscilloscope cannot always be located in an optimal place for vision. The eyes of the oscilloscope user are not always the flawless eyes of a young person with excellent accommodation. Then there are the various larger and smaller individual differences related to smelling colors. Someone can already have gray cataracts starting in their forties...etc,

Fonts cannot be reduced any more than what has been done now.
and for example now that the oscilloscope has got a changeable font size. The bigger one takes up space quite annoyingly, but many users are almost forced to use it. When working 8 hours a day with an oscilloscope, it is good to avoid excessive eye strain.

If someone is of the opinion that an oscilloscope does not belong to a 60-year-old or an 80-year-old, then let them grow up or just hang out in kindergarten. I know several people over 80 years old who use oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers and vector circuit analyzers. I myself have used an oscilloscope etc., not very long, only 60 years.

This is only because the design of the user interface of the oscilloscope is a little more than just wanting everything nice quickly and a lot and possibly without thinking about a wide user base and very different operating environments and situations. The fact that the devices are designed by young inexperienced novices who have just graduated from school and have almost no extensive experience in using measuring devices. It shows.
Sometimes I told someone that before starting to design equipment it would be good to read, for example, old HP journals and familiarize yourself with what it is all about. They are outdated, but they still provide a lot of information for planning in terms of the clear interface between man and machine. One of the fads these days is touchscreens, which are everywhere. Great in the right places and creepy in the wrong places. Take a look at a car. The driver fumbles through menus on the touch panel to adjust the seat to heat or something else, and his eyes are there on the screen because that action requires optical feedback. There will be trucks with which the meeting speed can be 50 m/s and they will dodge from a meter away from their nose. That's why - I didn't choose Tsla for my electric car.
 

The designer of the user interface must have strong knowledge and a broad interdisciplinary understanding of human physiology, specifically in such a way that it covers more than the "standard human" of physiology textbooks.
When it's not... well, you see it everywhere and a lot. The time for doing well is history. There is no time for that nowadays - because we have made such choices.


Of course, some "optimization" in the placement of different things on the screen can be done in a few things on the screen of this oscilloscope, but the limit value has been reached in font reduction and partially already undershot - but as a compromise dictated by "necessity". I wouldn't reduce it anymore. If it is a problem, the solution must be found in a different way than by reducing the font size.

A truly excellent post - thank you!

[2N3055]

I thought it was about maybe giving some ideas that might be useful to Siglent to add to their scope.
I'm sorry to be bearer of bad news, but Siglent won't redesign their scopes completely for what amounts to 4 people in total, and writing completely personal opinions how something should be made. Nor will any other manufacturer from Owon to Keysight.

- Fonts size is already too small. Scope actually has option to make fonts larger, because many people cannot read them otherwise at distance scope is kept when working, at hands length. It is not a phone a teenager keeps in their face.
- Anything that needs change of architecture won't happen. Just be realistic.
- Anything that only 30000 USD scope have won't be added... Look up word realistic.
- Nothing that is not common to platform won't be added. I already explained why before.
- Nothing that means Siglent needs to use different graphical platform or toolkit won't happen. Guess why.
- Nothing that is individual people wanting customizations that reflect only their workflow. All can vote but majority wins.

It is not like scope designs are made at the whim of some clueless engineer in a company and no user input and market research was done at all...  Siglent might be "young" compared to Keysight, but there are many thousands of engineer years of experience in doing scope design in that company so far. They know what they are doing.

Any multifunction device (and scope is VERY multifunction device) will have to be a best possible compromise. That is the whole crux of engineering.
Not everything is possible and no device will be made according to everybody's idea "how they would have done it".

It reminds me when in my country, when football world championship is going on, in sports bars all those "experts" with beer in their hand, know better than National Head coach or National Team Manager how it should be done and how if they had lead the team they would have won the World Cup. 
It is easy when you don't have to do the work, and nobody holds you responsible for anything.

I personally could write a full A4 page of all the stuff I don't like and find suboptimal and outright bad or wrong on my Keysight
MSOX3104T.  But it is still darn good scope with it's own advantages. You learn how to use it and then simply use it.

A good example of improvement: A user mentioned that a "Bit rate" measurement to be added. That would be possible, it is not outlandish (we have pulse width measurement, there is statistics, there is place to show it etc..). That is something Keysight scopes have and is useful when you are dealing with reverse engineering or working with custom baud rates on serial interfaces.

Bad example: I would like screen to be redesigned so it doesn't resemble what it is now.

[electronics hobbyist]

Yes, I will list a top x later, thank you for your suggestion.

I would be a good idea to have a poll, about what feature are needed/liked the most. You can create one here in the forum.

Try not to disturb everyone as much as possible. Based on my experience, I have added the Top 10 Wanted Features or Improvement section, and currently there are 8, reserve a few positions for important suggestions in the future.

[eTobey]

The bottom space of 800X HD is too limited. ...

Not in the case of active measurements (see picture). The red boxes are the wasted space, the blue box is the resulting overall won space if adjusted. Lots of space to put infos.

[electronics hobbyist]

Not in the case of active measurements (see picture). The red boxes are the wasted space, the blue box is the resulting overall won space if adjusted. Lots of space to put infos.

There is also a language called Chinese , Chinese is very long, and some math units of measurement are very long, which is not enough space

[Martin72]

Lots of space to put infos.

Do you think
It's not the first time Siglent has done this, and if they say there's no other way, then at least I believe them.
I have been dealing with Siglent scopes for over 6 years, since 2020 exclusively with the touchscreen models.
I have also had many conversations with Siglent experts (thanks again at this point).
So I know them a bit, which is why my last post with the pictures was not a feature request, but just a demonstration that it can be done differently (with a little nod towards larger Siglent models, of course  ).
I also wrote in the last post that you shouldn't think that just because all the wishes are listed here that they (can) be realized.
It's like a Christmas wish list.

[Performa01]

Not in the case of active measurements (see picture). The red boxes are the wasted space, the blue box is the resulting overall won space if adjusted. Lots of space to put infos.

There is also a language called Chinese , Chinese is very long, and some math units of measurement are very long, which is not enough space

...and then there are also times when an embedded side menu is not hidden for a change and the space for measurements gets narrower.

Looking just a little bit beyond the own limited horizon would not hurt at times.

[gitm]

.