SDS800X HD Wanted Features

[Martin72]

As you have already correctly noted, this is the feature thread.
Please post your question in the appropriate thread, either here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-featureimprovment-disscusions/

Or there:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/

[eTobey]

...and then there are also times when an embedded side menu is not hidden for a change and the space for measurements gets narrower.

I made an observation, and then a suggestion.

I think your imagination is also too narrow.

Looking just a little bit beyond the own limited horizon would not hurt at times.

Some self-reflection wont hurt either! But this might need some special skills... 

[rf-loop]

The bottom space of 800X HD is too limited. ...

Not in the case of active measurements (see picture). The red boxes are the wasted space, the blue box is the resulting overall won space if adjusted. Lots of space to put infos.

Try with all supported languages, all supported measurements, parameters...with all implemented functions and features,  and select bigger font and menu panel on - just all what can pop up on display. . Where are now free areas.
Please... 

[eTobey]

Try with all supported languages, all supported measurements, parameters...with all implemented functions and features,  and select bigger font and menu panel on - just all what can pop up on display. . Where are now free areas.
Please... 

This is valid argument but has already been said (in a rather socially poor way).

But what about some creativity?
- There could be a floating information window, freely configurable with what you want of information. Even adding a button could be an idea!

[electronics hobbyist]

Try with all supported languages, all supported measurements, parameters...with all implemented functions and features,  and select bigger font and menu panel on - just all what can pop up on display. . Where are now free areas.
Please... 

This is valid argument but has already been said (in a rather socially poor way).

But what about some creativity?
- There could be a floating information window, freely configurable with what you want of information. Even adding a button could be an idea!

You should take a look at the original request discussed, Martin's request is not to occupy the waveform area space. So I said there is not enough room at the bottom.From there, your understanding is biased. The cursor info can currently be moved to a different position when set to fixed.

[Mortymore]

I have wish for Santa Siglent

I wish I could use the Math functions in Roll mode, as I can with the GDS-2000E

Now that I can monitor Voltage and Current from the SDL1020X with the proper scale factors that the SDS800X-HD allows me to set, I can't trace Power, for instance, via math function in roll mode for slow voltage/current fluctuations. With the slowest timebase of 1ks/div (about 2h47m/display) the SDS800X-HD would be perfect otherwise, to monitor the SDL, over the GDS.

[eTobey]

I wish I could use the Math functions in Roll mode, as I can with the GDS-2000E

I wish the roll mode would be a "scan mode", so you actually could see the signal. Rollmode on faster signals is usless as it is too fast to see.
I wish to be able to do measurements on math channels.
I want LRxx and LFxx measurements too.

A better manual with more details and less errors.

So many wishes there are. That will be a lot of work for Santa Siglent

[rf-loop]

a) I wish the roll mode would be a "scan mode", so you actually could see the signal.
b) I wish to be able to do measurements on math channels.

Blue a and b is mine.

a) Please explain perfectly what you mean with "scan mode" and also then explain - for what. (if you want it sweeps and draw like old analog oscilloscope with very slow time bases and there is memory/adjustable persistence crt. This is not coming - reasons like "nice to have ...just because I like and want" is not enough.)

I can actually see signal in roll mode just as old roll paper plotter works (but default time axis reference point is wrong in roll mode - need FW fix or user set horizontal reference to right place).

b) if you want measure math result trace then you need learn hown to do it. Oscilloscope can...  missing part is - what/who.

But yes naturally there is some limits limits...  some limits also stay there. Only way to out from some of these limits what are in this very cheap instrument is - more money out from pocket. There is no free lounges. Except... buy this scope and you get lot of more than you pay 

Just example about measurement where (nonsense) math trage is input to measurement




(Not current public FW version... no time to check if 1.1.3.3 works perfectly same for this matter)

[eTobey]

a) ...  "nice to have ...just because I like and want" is not enough.)

b) if you want measure math result trace then you need learn hown to do it.

A: its actually not a "nice to have", because if in rolls quick, and you have some small details, then this roll mode becomes useless because you could not see it, as it is too fast.

B: Actually i dont need to learn it. If my statement is wrong then a "It works, what is your problem" would have been enough. Allthough i would have probably gotten a bit annoyed, i would have quickly realised that i confused that something else did not work with the math channels. But thanks for your input anyway, it will help other users. (Does the last sentence sound rude? Furthermore does this question itself sound rude?)

[tautech]

Roll has 2 modes, learn how they each work and why they might be designed in this way. 

[electronics hobbyist]

A: its actually not a "nice to have", because if in rolls quick, and you have some small details, then this roll mode becomes useless.

What is the specific usage scenario, what is the time base, and why the scan mode can solve your problem, some issues require more detailed information, and everyone's level of understanding varies.
We try not to discuss multiple issues at the same time. You can write a discussion list locally and solve one before discussing the other.

[rf-loop]

a) ...  "nice to have ...just because I like and want" is not enough.)

b) if you want measure math result trace then you need learn hown to do it.

A: its actually not a "nice to have", because if in rolls quick, and you have some small details, then this roll mode becomes useless.

B: Actually i dont need to learn it. If my statement is wrong then a "It works, what is your problem" would have been enough. Allthough i would have probably gotten a bit annoyed, i would have quickly realised that i confused that something else did not work with the math channels. But thanks for your input anyway, it will help other users. (Does the last sentence sound rude? Furthermore does this question itself sound rude?)

The way you used to quote my words broke the context of the detail that was said. Don't do that with me. I also have my own children (although of course they are already middle-aged).

But after all...

a) Please explain perfectly what you mean with "scan mode"

Why you do not explain how you think it need work. Define it.

At least I don't have the talent of a clairvoyant and therefore I don't know what your idea is of how you think the "scan mode" you want should work.


(B) (and because you do not hear my tone here. Kindly:) If public study seems awkward, shouldn't you first get to know it at your own pace and only after finishing Dunning-Kruger start forming opinions about how it works wrong or what should be improved. At this stage, it can easily happen that some of the development needs and faults are between the device and the chair, and some are in the device itself. But combining the two easily leads to a messy mess that can backfire on its good intentions.

[ebastler]

a) Please explain perfectly what you mean with "scan mode"

Why you do not explain how you think it need work. Define it.

It was said in a prior post, and seems pretty obvious to me:

Scan the "beam" from left to right, writing the new trace to the screen in sync with the sampling. Don't move the whole frame; it stays stationary. When the end of the screen is reached, start scanning the beam from the left side again. Don't clear the whole trace before restarting, but replace the old trace column by column, from left to right, as the new trace is written.

[rf-loop]

a) Please explain perfectly what you mean with "scan mode"

Why you do not explain how you think it need work. Define it.

It was said in a prior post, and seems pretty obvious to me:

Scan the "beam" from left to right, writing the new trace to the screen in sync with the sampling. Don't move the whole frame; it stays stationary. When the end of the screen is reached, start scanning the beam from the left side again. Don't clear the whole trace before restarting, but replace the old trace column by column, from left to right, as the new trace is written.

Ok.
 
(I remember my old analog HP1741A and some old Tektronix 7000 series with CRTmemory/adjustable persistence analog scope (and also some old analog SA's (example my old HP141T  what sweeps from leaft to right with adjustable peristence time,  works somehow like this. Do we need these old times back again... )

What is real advantage with this method what can not do now.

[electronics hobbyist]

a) Please explain perfectly what you mean with "scan mode"

Why you do not explain how you think it need work. Define it.

It was said in a prior post, and seems pretty obvious to me:

Scan the "beam" from left to right, writing the new trace to the screen in sync with the sampling. Don't move the whole frame; it stays stationary. When the end of the screen is reached, start scanning the beam from the left side again. Don't clear the whole trace before restarting, but replace the old trace column by column, from left to right, as the new trace is written.

I want to learn this scan mode, but I found that none of the machines in my hand, including the tens of thousands of dollars keysight MXR, are available. I feel embarrassed.

[ebastler]

What is real advantage with this method what can not do now.

It makes it easier to see "medium slow" signals. At time bases like 100 ms/div it is difficult to see much in roll mode, since the whole trace is scrolling too quickly across the screen. And on the other hand you have to wait for quite a while until the display gets refreshed in regular sweep mode.

My good (?) old DS1000Z actually switches to this "scan" display mode at time bases of 200 ms/div and slower (in its regular sweep mode, not roll). The SDS8000X HD remains in its default operation mode, where nothing happens on the screen until a full capture has been acquired, which is then displayed at once. I quite like the Rigol version here.

[2N3055]

a) Please explain perfectly what you mean with "scan mode"

Why you do not explain how you think it need work. Define it.

It was said in a prior post, and seems pretty obvious to me:

Scan the "beam" from left to right, writing the new trace to the screen in sync with the sampling. Don't move the whole frame; it stays stationary. When the end of the screen is reached, start scanning the beam from the left side again. Don't clear the whole trace before restarting, but replace the old trace column by column, from left to right, as the new trace is written.

That is actual invention of a new mode that has nothing to do with the Roll mode.
Roll mode mimics chart recorder behaviour.
At any time you have defined amount of signal history in a linear chart. Think EEG or ECG.

What he proposes then is not a roll mode at all (name "roll" more should be hint here),
but a sort of completely normal scope "retrace" mode, except with scope trace visible all the time....

Why and how is that better than Roll mode? What problem does that solve?
I honestly don't see usage scenario. If there is one I would like to know.

[ebastler]

What he proposes then is not a roll mode at all (name "roll" more should be hint here),
but a sort of completely normal scope "retrace" mode, except with scope trace visible all the time....

I agree. As mentioned in the post just above, that's how at least one scope (which I hesitate to cite as a reference...  ) has implemented it: As a "slow retrace" mode.

Why and how is that better than Roll mode? What problem does that solve?
I honestly don't see usage scenario. If there is one I would like to know.

See my post just above -- medium-slow signals, where the wait for a screen update is annoyingly long in retrace mode, but things move too fast to see much in roll mode.

[eTobey]

(B) (and because you ... 

(B) There is no more disscusion needed, because i (clearly?) stated, that i confused it with another issue.

What is real advantage with this method what can not do now.

A: its actually not a "nice to have", because if in rolls quick, and you have some small details, then this roll mode becomes useless because you could not see it, as it is too fast.
(edited for others to be easier to understand)

[eTobey]

What he proposes then is not a roll mode at all (name "roll" more should be hint here),

This is why i called it "scan mode" 

Its actually not a "nice to have", because if in rolls quick, and you have some small details, then this roll mode becomes useless because you could not see it, as it is too fast.

[electronics hobbyist]

A: its actually not a "nice to have", because if in rolls quick, and you have some small details, then this roll mode becomes useless because you could not see it, as it is too fast.
(edited for others to be easier to understand)

My opinion is that this is "nice to have", otherwise every manufacturer will implement it. There must be other ways to solve this fast problem, such as using non roll triggers.
See if there is a scenario that must be done in this way, as other methods cannot achieve it.

[mawyatt]

What he proposes then is not a roll mode at all (name "roll" more should be hint here),
but a sort of completely normal scope "retrace" mode, except with scope trace visible all the time....

I agree. As mentioned in the post just above, that's how at least one scope (which I hesitate to cite as a reference...  ) has implemented it: As a "slow retrace" mode.

Why and how is that better than Roll mode? What problem does that solve?
I honestly don't see usage scenario. If there is one I would like to know.

See my post just above -- medium-slow signals, where the wait for a screen update is annoyingly long in retrace mode, but things move too fast to see much in roll mode.

Think of this mode as Time moving from left to right. Recall from way back Tek scopes had this slow left to right beam scanning mode. Recall this was good for viewing some slow transient events, and we used old Polaroid camera on adapter to "record" trace from old Tek scopes.

Best,

[rf-loop]

What he proposes then is not a roll mode at all (name "roll" more should be hint here),
but a sort of completely normal scope "retrace" mode, except with scope trace visible all the time....

I agree. As mentioned in the post just above, that's how at least one scope (which I hesitate to cite as a reference...  ) has implemented it: As a "slow retrace" mode.

Why and how is that better than Roll mode? What problem does that solve?
I honestly don't see usage scenario. If there is one I would like to know.

See my post just above -- medium-slow signals, where the wait for a screen update is annoyingly long in retrace mode, but things move too fast to see much in roll mode.

Think of this mode as Time moving from left to right. Recall from way back Tek scopes had this slow left to right beam scanning mode. Recall this was good for viewing some slow transient events, and we used old Polaroid camera on adapter to "record" trace from old Tek scopes.

Best,

Oh, yes those nice old days...

[ebastler]

My opinion is that this is "nice to have", otherwise every manufacturer will implement it. There must be other ways to solve this fast problem, such as using non roll triggers.
See if there is a scenario that must be done in this way, as other methods cannot achieve it.

As already stated: It addresses an annoyance, in the timebase range around 100 ms/div. In that range you currently have the choice to

(a) use roll mode, and get dizzy as you try to follow the rapidly moving trace, or
(b) use regular retrace mode, and stare at an apparently frozen screen for a second or two, before it suddenly gets updated.

It's not making the scope non-functional. We are not saying that it is a terrible oversight that Siglent does not have this feature. But we are saying that it would make the scope more user-friendly when used in this timebase range. I quite like the idea to automatically activate this "scan" mode at 100 ms/div and slower, in regular (non-roll) mode. Roll mode itself would not change.

[Martin72]

(b) use regular retrace mode, and stare at an apparently frozen screen for a second or two, before it suddenly gets updated

At 100ms/div it will be in about one second and then not suddenly because it is then "finished with one lap".
If I don't necessarily need a still image in such time ranges, I simply leave it in roll mode.