Siglent SDS800X HD Review & Demonstration Thread

[rf-loop]

It's a little weird that we can't do it since there's the manual entry option. It automatically rounds to either 200 or 500 in that space. I would think this feature could be implemented at any point if enough people want it.

How does the scope handle "pinch and zoom" gestures on the touch screen? Does the horizontal scale also snap to the 10-20-50 grid, or is a continouos vernier control available in that way?

Horizontal scale  "pinch and zoom" 1-2-5 steps. No vernier.

[rf-loop]

Oh, one more question: Has anyone explored the maximum waveform update rates, for the 824 and/or its smaller siblings? There are some data in the recent post on X-Y mode; but I think Performa01 did not aim to hit the maximum rates there, but rather looked for a good balance of speed and data points per frame.

The datasheet specifies a higher update rate in normal mode for the 824. So this would also be a good check to see whether an "upgraded" 804 or 814 performs at the full 824 spec, or whether there is different hardware in the 824 which enables the higher waveform rate. I'm asking for a friend...

Due to very busy times I have not made yet detailed speed tables with different settings etc.
But naturally I have inspected that said value in data sheet is true. SDS824X HD, measured ETA: tiny bit over 120kwfm/s. average around 118.5kwfm/s and peak around 127kwfm/s. (FW 1.1.3.2: 1Ch on, display Dots, 50ns/div, input 10MHz)

[ebastler]

Due to very busy times I have not made yet detailed speed tables with different settings etc.
But naturally I have inspected that said value in data sheet is true. SDS824X HD, measured tiny bit over 120kwfm/s.

Thanks! If you still have it in your notes, could you indicate the settings where the maximum rate is achieved? (Time base, memory points, presumably dot mode?) Then others could easily compare with the 804/814 in off-the-shelf and "upgraded" condition.

[Performa01]

Thanks! If you still have it in your notes, could you indicate the settings where the maximum rate is achieved? (Time base, memory points, presumably dot mode?) Then others could easily compare with the 804/814 in off-the-shelf and "upgraded" condition.

We are right there in the review thread, aren't we?

Why not look up the regular content? The table in the third picture of the linked posting shows everything relevant. I did not optimize the input signal for best performance though, hence I could only attest 118690 waveforms per second in dots display mode at 50 ns/div.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293747/#msg5293747

There is even a table of contents in the opening posting, so it all can be found quite easily.

[ebastler]

We are right there in the review thread, aren't we?

Why not look up the regular content? The table in the third picture of the linked posting shows everything relevant. I did not optimize the input signal for best performance though, hence I could only attest 118690 waveforms per second in dots display mode at 50 ns/div.

There is even a table of contents in the opening posting, so it all can be found quite easily.

Perfect information (what else?  ), thank you!

I thought I had seen these data in the thread, then could not find them, and concluded that I must have mixed things up with your work on some earlier scope. In my defense, I did check the table of contents carefully before posting the question -- but it lists the relevant post as "History & Sequence Mode, Counting Pulses, Trigger Jitter", which did not click.

[capslock]

For the Bode plot, which function generator did you use and did you need special software modules for it?

The 800x series seems to be compatible with the SAG1021I, which ist just a glorified USB dongle for € 139 + tax. The much more expensive scopes need a costly software
(In addition the function generator software option (SDS1000X-E-FG) or (SDS-5000X-AWG) or (SDS6000Pro-FG) is required.) So do we need this with the SDS800X, too?

[2N3055]

For the Bode plot, which function generator did you use and did you need special software modules for it?

The 800x series seems to be compatible with the SAG1021I, which ist just a glorified USB dongle for € 139 + tax. The much more expensive scopes need a costly software
(In addition the function generator software option (SDS1000X-E-FG) or (SDS-5000X-AWG) or (SDS6000Pro-FG) is required.) So do we need this with the SDS800X, too?

You can use any of Siglent AWGs, including SAG1021I you mentioned. For bode plot there is no need for any special license. Just AWG.

But if you want to use AWG as AWG then you need AWG license. But for Bode plot no. Just AWG hardware.

[capslock]

Thanks. I found the software option for the 800 series, it's another 95 € + tax.

Sounds like the SDG810 for € 169 is a better deal then, since it is standalone and includes the AWG functionally. Any downsides, i.e. is there a need to control the AWG functionally from the scope or can the scope even talk to the SDG?

Or for that matter, do I need a Siglent function generator at all to do Bode plots, i.e. could I set my Owon generator to do a sweep and let the Siglent trigger on the start of the sweep?

Bonus question: is there any good reason to by a 4-channel scope when all I do is analog (including Class D) audio? So far, I have never felt the need for more than two channels.

[2N3055]

Thanks. I found the software option for the 800 series, it's another 95 € + tax.

Sounds like the SDG810 for € 169 is a better deal then, since it is standalone and includes the AWG functionally. Any downsides, i.e. is there a need to control the AWG functionally from the scope or can the scope even talk to the SDG?

Or for that matter, do I need a Siglent function generator at all to do Bode plots, i.e. could I set my Owon generator to do a sweep and let the Siglent trigger on the start of the sweep?

Bonus question: is there any good reason to by a 4-channel scope when all I do is analog (including Class D) audio? So far, I have never felt the need for more than two channels.

4 channels is something you have to decide. I would not buy 2ch anymore. It is something you find ways to use when you have it. For instance, you can do Bode with 3 channels and one reference.
Usage?  A 3 way xover that you can plot at the same time. You can make plot with overlapping all 3 bands...
If you have only 2 ch, you will have to do it 3 times, and merge data manually.
I personally like external AWG better because you can operate it independent to the scope. No need to do it from the scope.

You cannot use external AWG that way. It has to be controlled by scope, step by step... I know there was an effort to make piece of software that would act as a gateway to other AWGs. I don't know how far that went and what is supported...

[capslock]

Thanks. So the SDG810 is controlled by the scope and can do all the things the SAG + software does at a lower price?

[2N3055]

Thanks. So the SDG810 is controlled by the scope and can do all the things the SAG + software does at a lower price?

Heeeh, kinda mixed bag.

SDS810 will have lower max frequency. Signal quality will be mostly the same. AWG core is the same basically.
It will have modulation.

Honestly, SDS810 is older generation.
My recomendation is to get SDG1032x if you can afford it..

It is new generation, very good signal quality, especially pulse and squarewave and it is 2 independent channels.

[capslock]

Thanks. First of all: in order to do Bode plots, I need SAG or any of the SDG, i.e. the scope will talk to the external device?

Secondly, what do you mean by modulation? That the older SDG is spec'ed only at 10 MHz bandwidth (which I suspect is the highes frequency it can output, not the analog bandwith)?

[2N3055]

Thanks. First of all: in order to do Bode plots, I need SAG or any of the SDG, i.e. the scope will talk to the external device?

Secondly, what do you mean by modulation? That the older SDG is spec'ed only at 10 MHz bandwidth (which I suspect is the highes frequency it can output, not the analog bandwith)?

You really need to download datasheets for SAG1021I, SDG810 and SD1032x and set the side by side..

SAG is simplest in capabilites, 1ch, but goes to 25MHz
SDG810 is also 1 channel, only up to 10MHz sine but more functions: modulation etc.
SDG1032X is new generation, 2 independent channels, up to 30MHz (60 actually for platform), and very good pulse capability.

[capslock]

Yes, thank, I understand the differences. I am just not sure I need better signal quality that I cannot use without using 50 Ohms T-pieces on the inputs.

Sorry for asking again: the SDS will talk to any of the SAG, SDG, SD to generate a Bode plot?

[2N3055]

Sorry for asking again: the SDS will talk to any of the SAG, SDG, SD to generate a Bode plot?

Yes. I thought I was clear. Sorry.

[KungFuJosh]

That depends on how you want to communicate. The newer AWGs with an X at the end generally have ethernet ports. The SDG810 does not have an ethernet port, so if it does work with BODE plots, you're limited on how you can set it up.

[capslock]

Yet the SAG also only has a USB port and this is how the SDS800x talks to it.

[adam4521]

The difference in price between a SAG1021I with signal generator license and SDG1032X in the uk is just £21+VAT. With the latter you get 2 channels that can work separately or synchronised, modulation, more amplitude range, plus the convenience and flexibility of a dedicated instrument with its own screen. I get that the ‘I’ means that the signal output is isolated, but overall the SAG1021I feels poor value compared to the rest of the offer within the brand.

[KungFuJosh]

Yet the SAG also only has a USB port and this is how the SDS800x talks to it.

Sure, but that's not a standalone unit. I use ethernet for communication between my Siglent devices. The point is to be aware of what the options and limitations are.

[orzel]

Thanks. First of all: in order to do Bode plots, I need SAG or any of the SDG, i.e. the scope will talk to the external device?

Yes, the scope will drive the SDG. It's very simple: connect them using usb (typically), or ethernet (if available on both), then a simple setting on the scope establishes the communication and confirms it's ok. Then you can do bode plot. It only works with signal generator and scope of the same brand, there doesn't seem to be any established standard on how to do that.

[capslock]

The difference in price between a SAG1021I with signal generator license and SDG1032X in the uk is just £21+VAT. With the latter you get 2 channels that can work separately or synchronised, modulation, more amplitude range, plus the convenience and flexibility of a dedicated instrument with its own screen. I get that the ‘I’ means that the signal output is isolated, but overall the SAG1021I feels poor value compared to the rest of the offer within the brand.

Here it is € 67 including tax. The software is € 113 (with tax), i.e. about as much as my standalone Owon was. I am still toying with the idea of buying the SAG without the software if that is all that is needed for Bode plots.

How useful is this feature anyway for testing discrete audio amps? I'd have to run them open loop and feed them a much attenuated signal from the generator. Wonder if this means noise or phase issues?

[2N3055]

The difference in price between a SAG1021I with signal generator license and SDG1032X in the uk is just £21+VAT. With the latter you get 2 channels that can work separately or synchronised, modulation, more amplitude range, plus the convenience and flexibility of a dedicated instrument with its own screen. I get that the ‘I’ means that the signal output is isolated, but overall the SAG1021I feels poor value compared to the rest of the offer within the brand.

My personal recommendation is SDG1032X because for very little more money you get the device that is superior in every respect.

[tautech]

The difference in price between a SAG1021I with signal generator license and SDG1032X in the uk is just £21+VAT. With the latter you get 2 channels that can work separately or synchronised, modulation, more amplitude range, plus the convenience and flexibility of a dedicated instrument with its own screen. I get that the ‘I’ means that the signal output is isolated, but overall the SAG1021I feels poor value compared to the rest of the offer within the brand.

My personal recommendation is SDG1032X because for very little more money you get the device that is superior in nearly every respect.

FTFY.
The usefulness of an isolated AWG should never be overlooked.
YMMV.

Otherwise I agree, SDG1032X is the superior choice for the functionality it offers.

[KungFuJosh]

How useful is this feature anyway for testing discrete audio amps? I'd have to run them open loop and feed them a much attenuated signal from the generator. Wonder if this means noise or phase issues?

I haven't tried it yet, but I recently built this project for testing DOAs: https://www.fivefishstudios.com/diy/opamptestjig/

[orzel]

My personal recommendation is SDG1032X because for very little more money you get the device that is superior in every respect.

Yeps. I got one and i'm very happy with it. Never cared for 'options' or 'integrated' awg in scopes.