Siglent SDS800X HD Review & Demonstration Thread

[Martin72]

Hi,

Yes I can also confirm, SDS1000X HD (1G version) sure have internal HW RTC with battery backup (and I "believe" that 2G version also have hardware RTC).

It seems so (pic taken from the 1000X HD(2ndG) unboxing thread)...

[ebastler]

Duh, right, thank you! I had not remembered that post. Alright, so the lack of NTP is a non-issue for the larger model, as expected.

Maybe the RTC could be added to the list of SDS800X HD vs 1000 differences in the top post?

[orzel]

...it get right time from network NTP server (when configure it, user need know suitable NTP server IP, instead of name)

That seems scary. Most of the time, the dhcp server will provide a NTP server as well... Can the scope use this ?

[tautech]

...it get right time from network NTP server (when configure it, user need know suitable NTP server IP, instead of name)

That seems scary. Most of the time, the dhcp server will provide a NTP server as well... Can the scope use this ?

NTP server URL's can be found in seconds, here's yours for France:
https://www.ntppool.org/en/zone/fr

For large countries with multiple time zones you also need specify your location in the scopes NTP menu.

[orzel]

For large countries with multiple time zones you also need specify your location in the scopes NTP menu.

That's not what i meant. I know where to find a ntp server. I even have one here.

The question was : do you really need to manually enter an IP ?

Most networks use DHCP for hosts to get an IP. And this same DHCP server that answers, can also provides some more information. And typically, it can provide a NTP server.

Here at least, this is the way almost all networks do.

[tautech]

For large countries with multiple time zones you also need specify your location in the scopes NTP menu.

That's not what i meant. I know where to find a ntp server. I even have one here.

The question was : do you really need to manually enter an IP ?

For the older SDS1*04X-E, yes.
800X HD is a continuation of this NTP functionality but with a different and updated touch UI where entering a URL via the virtual or an external keyboard is quicker and simpler.

For X-E, we setup the NTP for NZ in every unit we sell and we will be doing the same when 800X HD arrives.

Edit to add
Performa01 might like to show us use of the virtual keyboard.

[rf-loop]

Currently, for now, System Settings/Time is like this. The IP address of the NTP server is entered there. What could be easier. One could get by with even less if you could enter it in hex but it accept it only decimal form.

Personally I would have left out those time zone name lists entirely. Instead, one parameter field where one can enter time difference +/- hh.mm relative to UTC. Every engineer or who have attended elementary school know how many hours the clocks in their area are in relation to UTC. If one don't know - back to school. However, now there is that list and we live with it ... How can someone, who doesn't know the offset to UTC, find the right one if their own city or state is not found there... (...censored... ).

In images below can see menu for configure System / Time

[chillidog]

The IP address of the NTP server is entered there. What could be easier.

Well... even easier would be not having to enter it at all, i.e., relying on DHCP. Of course, when no NTP option is presented, manual entry should still be possible. I suppose it's the same way with the IP address? If there's no DHCP on the network, one could still manually enter an IP address, right?

[rf-loop]

If there's no DHCP on the network, one could still manually enter an IP address, right?

Yes.

[orzel]

Well... even easier would be not having to enter it at all, i.e., relying on DHCP.

That's even very easy. Those scope use linux, and very probably a common package for dhcpd, all of them defaulting to handle ntp... At worse, it's a one liner in some config file. I can do some "pro bono" consulting to help Siglent if they can't manage that !

[empeka]

I'm not an android expert, but I think that dhcpcd in android was deprecated many years ago in favor of... more android native java library, that does not seem to handle option 42.

[baldurn]

Personally I would have left out those time zone name lists entirely. Instead, one parameter field where one can enter time difference +/- hh.mm relative to UTC. Every engineer or who have attended elementary school know how many hours the clocks in their area are in relation to UTC. If one don't know - back to school. However, now there is that list and we live with it ... How can someone, who doesn't know the offset to UTC, find the right one if their own city or state is not found there... (...censored... ).

It is for automatic daylight saving. The rules for that varies all of the world. So you need to know the country or state.

Of course it happens that the politicians change the rules and your software gets outdated.

[orzel]

I'm not an android expert, but I think that dhcpcd in android was deprecated many years ago in favor of... more android native

Hopefully those new siglent scopes wont be android, but linux as usual. That's not Rigol ! 

[tautech]

I'm not an android expert, but I think that dhcpcd in android was deprecated many years ago in favor of... more android native

Hopefully those new siglent scopes wont be android, but linux as usual.

Yep, Linux all the way to even the PC based SDS7000A.

[empeka]

Oh... I've sunk in hacking dho800 so deep in the last few days, that I almost forgot that there are other OSes
Well, it's good to be wrong sometimes;)

[Performa01]

The following content has been added:

Reply #5

1.   Deep Measurements
2.   Probe Bandwidth

The opening posting has been updated accordingly.

[Martin72]

Thank you for the enormous effort you are putting in here - THIS is a review...

[Performa01]

The following content has been added:

Reply #3
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293750/#msg5293750

2.   Measurement Histograms

Reply #6
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293759/#msg5293759

1.   Poor Men’s Differential Probing
2.   Distortion measurements

The opening posting has been updated accordingly.

[Orange]

Performa01
I'm not impressed by the HF response step size the first 15ns; there is much undefined over and undershoot. The same behavior can also be seen on the SDS1000HD. Almost as if they use the same front-end design.

Can you also make a test on a 100Hz square wave input signal ? Some recent Siglent scopes also have problems with this (not showing a real square)

Thank you

[Martin72]

I'm not impressed by the HF response step size the first 15ns

Which screenshot are you referring to?

[rf-loop]

Performa01
I'm not impressed by the HF response step size the first 15ns; there is much undefined over and undershoot. The same behavior can also be seen on the SDS1000HD. Almost as if they use the same front-end design.

Can you also make a test on a 100Hz square wave input signal ? Some recent Siglent scopes also have problems with this (not showing a real square)

Thank you

SDS824X HD, 100Hz sqr from SDG1032X with normal 10x probe.
average for better see top and bottom line shape

[2N3055]

Performa01
I'm not impressed by the HF response step size the first 15ns; there is much undefined over and undershoot. The same behavior can also be seen on the SDS1000HD. Almost as if they use the same front-end design.

Can you also make a test on a 100Hz square wave input signal ? Some recent Siglent scopes also have problems with this (not showing a real square)

Thank you

Why would they not share input design, when their specifications for inputs are pretty much the same...? Of course, they would only share 1MΩ input path design.

Are you referring to images with top part of signal zoomed in 20X ?
(Which by the way is something not many scopes can do, not to mention in this class.)

Your definition  of recent is very different from mine.  Problems with compensation were in scopes from 2017..  that is going on to 7 years now... there were 3 generations of new products released. Just saying...

[Orange]

Performa01
I'm not impressed by the HF response step size the first 15ns; there is much undefined over and undershoot. The same behavior can also be seen on the SDS1000HD. Almost as if they use the same front-end design.

Can you also make a test on a 100Hz square wave input signal ? Some recent Siglent scopes also have problems with this (not showing a real square)

Thank you

Why would they not share input design, when their specifications for inputs are pretty much the same...? Of course, they would only share 1MΩ input path design.


Are you referring to images with top part of signal zoomed in 20X ?
(Which by the way is something not many scopes can do, not to mention in this class.)

Your definition  of recent is very different from mine.  Problems with compensation were in scopes from 2017..  that is going on to 7 years now... there were 3 generations of new products released. Just saying...

Picture SDS824X_HD_PR_1GSa is NOT zoomed in, and clearly shows strange strange aberrations, almost there is a reflected wave interfering with one of the internals...
A TDR or VNA  would shed some light on this to see what is going on. (at least on a SDS1000X HD this is possible, but outside the scope of this thread)

There is nothing wrong with sharing a good design, I did not imply this is a bad thing, just an observation, so no defense from your side is needed here.

As for the LF compensation in the front-end, Siglent does not have a good track record for this, specially on the low end scopes. I consider the SDS800 as a low end scope give the fact it has only a 7''  screen hence my curiosity for the LF distortion on this model.

Thanks Performa01 and RF-loop for the tests

[Performa01]

I'm not impressed by the HF response step size the first 15ns; there is much undefined over and undershoot. The same behavior can also be seen on the SDS1000HD. Almost as if they use the same front-end design.

I’ve demonstrated how the details of a pulse flat can be closely inspected without overloading the scope input by means of a proper zoom implementation and additional math to deal with noise. Yes, neither pulse generators nor oscilloscope frontends are 100% ideal, especially in terms of impedance matching. Because what we see in my screenshots are clearly reflections stemming from less than perfect impedance matching. On the other hand, small aberrations in the realm of 2.5 % (as in this case) are usually well accepted in the industry.

I’ve added a paragraph and a screenshot to the “Pulse Response” section in the opening posting to demonstrate a modified test setup for the occasions where we really need highest possible signal fidelity up to the fine details.

Can you also make a test on a 100Hz square wave input signal ? Some recent Siglent scopes also have problems with this (not showing a real square)

Absolutely no problem with a 100 Hz square when using the SDS800X HD (or any other contemporary Siglent DSO):


SDS824X_HD_PR_100Hz_Zoom

Also the claims about serious problems with the SDS1000X-E (at 10 Hz this time) could not be confirmed:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg5278090/#msg5278090

[Orange]

 Much better  HF pulse response now in the added test 
LF distortion is also absent ;GOOD !

Thanks Performa01