EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: huggybear404 on April 11, 2023, 12:56:26 am
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Looking for meter that keep running a full workday without scream at me after 3 mins and turn off when I have hands stuck inside high voltage equipment, not the most ideal time to beep and make me jump... and also not bankrupt me or cost an amount that will never make me dare use it.
Is the XDM1041 a good choice or are there better options in same or lower price range ? I tryed ask seller if this will stay on or beep to interrupt me
but none knew the answer and it says nothing in manual about it. Any serious issues that should make me not order this ? does it use only internal 5v supply ? maybe add battery inside to keep it running for days even without needing the grid is a good idea ?
I tryed several handheld meters and seems all of them stay on max 5 mins before turn off so every time I want measure I have to restart it
and they still eat batteries like candy. seems almost all use aaa or 9v which is 6 of same cells. Am I the only one that think some rechargable cell is a good idea ? Tho even if I mod the cell the meter will still default to turn off. I know some meters have secret option to stay on but never remember this
setting.
one idea I have is using cheap ebay meters and a 5v mobile power adapter , upside is its very cheap at a few $ in parts, it likely is not very accurate
and I fear risk of shock if the cheap china mobile chargers break down. and also will be challenge and complex to put ranging switches and resistors in a small portable box. Especially if I want option for A , V and ohms in same meter. With the low price it may be good to make one of each tho.
Any other or better options to fit my needs ? or other suggestions ?
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Depends on what your requirements are. If you need an affordable bench multimeter to simply circumvent turning off, then probably yes.
If you look for special things, maybe not. As an affordable alternative to a cheap handheld modded with battery connectors (the old Flukes had this, like the old 8020A), surely yes, if you primarily probe voltages.
But: Whats your usage profile?
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Are you sure that the manual for your meter does not offer a way to cancel the auto-power off? The handheld I use allows that to be turned off (UNI-T UT17B Pro).
I don't know why the meter would "eat" batteries like you are describing even when used all day. Does it have a backlit display?
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I suggest two things:
(1) Read the user manuals of prospective meters on-line to find meters that have a way to cancel the auto-power-off.
(2) Consider meters that use a 9 V battery. Because such batteries have low energy content, the meter must be designed to have low power consumption. If a meter requires 4 or 6 AA cells it is probably a power hog.
I have some RadioShack meters that satisfy points 1 and 2. I have left them switched on for hours at a time doing data logging without draining the battery. I know these particular meters are now unobtainable, but I suspect there are other meters with similar characteristics.
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Approximate alkaline battery life (from the manuals - not measured by me) for some meters that are well built for being "stuck inside high voltage equipment" and that have a mechanism to turn off auto power off:
- Fluke 87v: 400 hours
- Fluke 179: 300 hours
- Brymen BM235: 250 hours (doesn't need APO to be disabled - whenever there's a reasonable reading, the APO timer is reset)
- Brymen BM257s: 220 hours (est)
As far as I can recall every meter I've ever had that features APO had some mechanism to disable it. A simple solution to not remembering how to do the disable is a piece of tape that you write on "Hold SELECT to disable APO" (or whatever). Use a label printer if you want it to look nice.
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Be aware though, if you turn on the display backlight the battery life will be orders of magnitude less.
Even if you have a DMM that does not officially have a way to disable auto power off there may be an undocumented way to turn it off.
Check out what chipset the meter uses and then look up other meters with the same chipset or check out the datasheet.
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Is the XDM1041 a good choice or are there better options in same or lower price range ? I tryed ask seller if this will stay on or beep to interrupt me but none knew the answer and it says nothing in manual about it. Any serious issues that should make me not order this ? does it use only internal 5v supply ? maybe add battery inside to keep it running for days even without needing the grid is a good idea ?
It's a "bench meter" so it won't beep or turn off.
There's an XDM1241 with built-in battery. I assume it's the same, read the manual...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWFMjWyM07k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWFMjWyM07k)
(2) Consider meters that use a 9 V battery. Because such batteries have low energy content, the meter must be designed to have low power consumption. If a meter requires 4 or 6 AA cells it is probably a power hog.
Either that or ... get a meter where the batteries are really fast/easy to change. No screwdriver, no rubber boot to remove, etc.
eg. Fluke 187 can disable all APO and batteries are 4xAA under a door with a thumbscrew.
Option 2: Get something like a Fluke 27FM which doesn't have auto-power-off and goes for over 1000 hours on a battery. It's not a sophisticated meter but it's a good one.
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The Owon 1241 does have Auto Power Off with a choice of times from 0.5 to 2 hours and disabled. The setting is retained when power cycled.
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[quote author=
Either that or ... get a meter where the batteries are really fast/easy to change. No screwdriver, no rubber boot to remove, etc.
eg. Fluke 187 can disable all APO and batteries are 4xAA under a door with a thumbscrew.
Option 2: Get something like a Fluke 27FM which doesn't have auto-power-off and goes for over 1000 hours on a battery. It's not a sophisticated meter but it's a good one.
[/quote]
With 4AA are only good for 72 hrs with backlight off in the 187/189.
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Approximate alkaline battery life (from the manuals - not measured by me) for some meters that are well built for being "stuck inside high voltage equipment" and that have a mechanism to turn off auto power off:
- Fluke 87v: 400 hours
- Fluke 179: 300 hours
- Brymen BM235: 250 hours (doesn't need APO to be disabled - whenever there's a reasonable reading, the APO timer is reset)
- Brymen BM257s: 220 hours (est)
Older meters, even from Fluke, often ran for 2000+ hours on a 9 volt alkaline battery. I have not seen any modern meters with long battery life.
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Hell, my Agilent U1252A doesn't last 2000 hours powered off. I almost always have to charge it when taking it out for use. I don't have that problem with it's brother, the U1252B. (I've swapped batteries between the two, so it's definitely the meter.) Must be the color...
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The Uni-T UT61E has data logging enabled so it doesn't turn off... it works with a 9v battery but will function down to very low voltage levels .. could probably run it from a big battery for a long time.
but I don't think it's the best choice if you're dealing with high voltages. doesn't have as many protections and safeties for highvoltage
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With 4AA are only good for 72 hrs with backlight off in the 187/189.
I don't know what voltage the battery warning comes on at but I just measured the consumption, it uses:
~13mA without the backlight, that should be about 150 hours with a 2000mAh battery.
~43mA with half-power backlight, about 46 hours with a 2000mAh battery.
~80mA with full-power backlight, about 25 hours....
It's definitely not the most contrasty meter in the world and the screen background is quite a dark color so I'd probably want the backlight on if I was using it all day.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/seek-multimeter-that-not-eat-batteries-or-turn-off/?action=dlattach;attach=1759445;image)
The annoying thing is that there's two levels of brightness so you can't turn the light on/off with a single press to save power You have to press it multiple times.
(and the second level of brightness isn't that much brighter. >:( )
Bottom line: You'd be changing the batteries once a week if you were using it all day. It only takes about ten seconds to do, so... :-//
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Looking for meter that keep running a full workday without scream at me after 3 mins and turn off when I have hands stuck inside high voltage equipment, not the most ideal time to beep and make me jump... and also not bankrupt me or cost an amount that will never make me dare use it.
Any other or better options to fit my needs ? or other suggestions ?
Later model Fluke 27 with the grey face and CAT III/1000V rating. Easy-to-read high contrast LCD (without backlight), extremely durable, no APO and runs for thousands of hours on a 9V battery. Available in mint condition for $100 or so on eBay.
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Looking for meter that keep running a full workday without scream at me after 3 mins and turn off when I have hands stuck inside high voltage equipment, not the most ideal time to beep and make me jump... and also not bankrupt me or cost an amount that will never make me dare use it.
Is the XDM1041 a good choice or are there better options in same or lower price range ? I tryed ask seller if this will stay on or beep to interrupt me
Owon stuff doesn't get much love over here because it typically is lacking where it comes to the finishing touches in the firmware.
I have a couple of Vici VC8145 bench multimeters to address the same problem you have. I have these for about a decade already. They look a bit less sexy compared to the Owon but work very well, have a nice big backlit display and these are stackable.
There are also the Aneng AN888 / AN999 bench multimers which look interesting.
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I have a couple of Vici VC8145 bench multimeters to address the same problem you have. I have these for about a decade already. They look a bit less sexy compared to the Owon but work very well, have a nice big backlit display and these are stackable.
Review here: https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMVici%20VC8145%20UK.html
Read conclusions carefully to avoid surprises.
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It's not a sophisticated meter but it's a good one.
Actually the 'basic' features it has--REL, MIN/MAX and AUTOHOLD may be more useful generally than the extended DMM features that define a 'sophisticated' meter. And some of those lack these basics or they don't work as well.
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It's not a sophisticated meter but it's a good one.
Actually the 'basic' features it has--REL, MIN/MAX and AUTOHOLD may be more useful generally than the extended DMM features that define a 'sophisticated' meter. And some of those lack these basics or they don't work as well.
Yes, but no capacitance, no frequency... etc.
It's true that those measurements are less common and an LCR meter is better for capacitance, an oscilloscope is better for frequency.
The Fluke 27 is a good option for leaving on all day long and taking basic measurements so long as you have other meters for the "sophisticated" stuff.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWUaiCGItxI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWUaiCGItxI)
this is one I hadn't seen before - no idea if it fits your needs
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this is one I hadn't seen before - no idea if it fits your needs
Why not start a new thread about it?
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Am I the only one that think some rechargeable cell is a good idea ?
may be not
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Any other or better options to fit my needs ? or other suggestions ?
This one doesn't turn off and the battery will last for thousands of hours:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/trashy-meters-redux/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/trashy-meters-redux/)
But you don't say what sort of things you want to measure. What safety do you need?
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What safety do you need?
The first post said that he's concerned about being startled by the APO warning beeps from the meter when he has "hands stuck inside high voltage equipment, not the most ideal time to beep and make me jump...". I interpreted this as a safe meter would be desired. However, the OP does goes on to ask whether using a "cheap ebay meters and a 5v mobile power adapter" would work, but mentions concerns about the "risk of shock if the cheap china mobile chargers break down".
All this made me avoid suggesting meters that have dodgy input protection and questionable safety (hence the Fluke & Brymen suggestions).
I might have suggested the Uni-T UT161 series (a variant of the UT61+ series with improved input protection) but I'm not sure how close those meters might be to Fluke/Brymen level of safety.
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The first post said that he's concerned about being startled by the APO warning beeps from the meter when he has "hands stuck inside high voltage equipment, not the most ideal time to beep and make me jump...". I interpreted this as a safe meter would be desired. ... hence the Fluke & Brymen suggestions.
He also said "...not bankrupt me or cost an amount that will never make me dare use it" :-//
Maybe some ear plugs could solve the problem?
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I think we need a lot more info about what needs measuring and what meters OP already owns.
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At work I used to use a Beckman 350? DMM that had 6x D cells as the power source, no annoying auto switch off, as it had a manual power switch. They are quite old though, the plastics used for the casing degrades with age, plus the risk of it being a write-off if the batteries were Duraleak.
David
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At work I used to use a Beckman 350? DMM that had 6x D cells as the power source
I'm guessing it wasn't sold as a "pocket multimeter". :D
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He also said "...not bankrupt me or cost an amount that will never make me dare use it" :-//
Flukes might be prohibitively costly, but the BM235 can be had for less than $100 (though it might be harder to find than a Fluke). And that's the meter that doesn't need APO to be turned off because it's smart enough to know when it's in use.
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If you're in the US, FLIR is having a sale right now on the DM64 for $49 with free shipping: https://www.flir.com/products/dm64/ (https://www.flir.com/products/dm64/)
Best I can tell it is the BM235, although previously it has been reported the DM66 is the BM235. The DM64 and DM66 pages on FLIR's site seem identical.
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That's a darn good deal.
Update:
Scanning the FLIR DM64 an Brymen BM235 manuals the only difference I noticed was the DM64 is rated up to 600V while the BM235 is rated up to 1000V.
I noticed no differences between the DM64 and DM66 - not sure why there are two model numbers with two slightly very different prices. DM66 is $164, DM64 is $104 (on sale now for $50 as J-R pointed out).
The Brymen warranty is 1 year, the FLIR warranty is 3 years (though the data sheet for the DM64 says "limited lifetime", which doesn't match up with the manual it seems the datasheet is a misprint or maybe old).
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FLUKE 15-17B+ and some other FLUKE allow you to disable the auto-shutoff.
If you hold down the yellow button when you turn it on, It disables the auto-shutoff feature. I believe this is true for 15-17B+ models and more. It will momentarily flash "Poff" then"Loff". Here are two pictures.
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If you're in the US, FLIR is having a sale right now on the DM64 for $49 with free shipping: https://www.flir.com/products/dm64/ (https://www.flir.com/products/dm64/)
Best I can tell it is the BM235.
Nice deal, get 'em while you can!
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The apparent lack of difference between the DM64 and the DM66 was driving me a little crazy. Poking around the internet, I came across an answer from a FLIR support person on an Amazon listing for the DM66:
The difference is not in terms of the technical part of the meter, but in the elements that it comes with when purchased.
the DM66 comes with:
- DM66 with integral probe holder
- 2 × alkaline batteries (AAA)
- high-quality silicone test leads
- alligator clips
- soft carrying case
the DM64:
- DM64 with integral probe holder
- 2 × alkaline batteries (AAA)
- high-quality silicone test leads
- type K thermocouple
- soft carrying case
So the difference between the DM64 and DM66 is that one comes with a thermocouple and the other comes with alligator clips. Those must be some really nice alligator clips to justify a $60 difference in price!
(and the DM64 is still on sale for $50)
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2 hrs is short, I want it keep going 8 hrs . I hope it turn off if batteries get <15% so it wont damage them and never turn off powered from mains ?
wish it would adjust to 4,6,8 hr before turn off , how long is battery life and are batteries included with this ?
is there a calibration for f.ex resistance so I can zero out leads and check ones at less than one ohm ?
I also hope it remember all settings for ranges, etc so I dont need adjust preferences every boot.
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I repair all kinds of equpment from computers to amplifiers with rails +- over 100volt to crts with high voltage points and thats for sure not when I want meter to beep at me within minutes of turn it on. I like the xdm1041 or 1241 and will probably get one of those. I have never seen any meter with 9v battery last long time, I wish most meters use 2x aa or better yet lithium cell that recharge easy and not micro usb ports that wear out in 10 uses. I hate the aaa with max 100 mah capacity used in all kinds of things, feels like a competition to sell new batteries to get rich... My scale came with 3v clock battery to make sure I keep buy new ones, I modded it with an old mobile phone cell and now it runs years before charge.
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no this use 9v batt which is 6x aaa in series so I waste not two but 6 pricy batteries for every use and 20hrs to buy batt is not impressive.
and thats what the ad promise so I dont trust it and its twice the price of the 1041 and I not love spend more than 100 euros ,some of my meters cost 5 euros tho ofcoz quality wont quite match on those. All the meters i have today are hand held ones upto a 60 euro biltema one
I know there is meters costing 3-400 euros or more but then how will I dare use them , if I check current and then forget to change mode to voltage it goes bang and I need to mortgage house to replace it > not ideal.
the 1041 seems a hundred times better and more useful than the one you list and also half price , seems fairly accurate as well
is there a better similar option thats not more expensive ? I see some say it has some bugs in the firmware , slow autoranging for caps etc
I seldom measure voltages over mains so 500 or 1000v cover most of my needs and If i need more I can use resistor divider
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I repair all kinds of equpment from computers to amplifiers with rails +- over 100volt to crts with high voltage points and thats for sure not when I want meter to beep at me within minutes of turn it on. I like the xdm1041 or 1241 and will probably get one of those. I have never seen any meter with 9v battery last long time, I wish most meters use 2x aa or better yet lithium cell that recharge easy and not micro usb ports that wear out in 10 uses. I hate the aaa with max 100 mah capacity used in all kinds of things, feels like a competition to sell new batteries to get rich... My scale came with 3v clock battery to make sure I keep buy new ones, I modded it with an old mobile phone cell and now it runs years before charge.
So whatever you work on can be placed on a bench? If so get an AC powered meter. Also you do this as a hobby? If you do this for a living you should earn enough that a $1000 DMM won't break your bank.
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Older meters, even from Fluke, often ran for 2000+ hours on a 9 volt alkaline battery. I have not seen any modern meters with long battery life.
I should have included that old meters that lasted 2000+ hours were also manual ranging meters. One of the disadvantages at the time with autoranging multimeters was much lower battery life. These days all multimeters have poor battery life though.
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I should have included that old meters that lasted 2000+ hours were also manual ranging meters. One of the disadvantages at the time with autoranging multimeters was much lower battery life. These days all multimeters have poor battery life though.
I don't know about 2000+ hours, but the discontinued RadioShack 22-812 meter is autoranging with a 9 V battery, and it runs for months, even years, between battery changes. I have left it switched on for many hours while data logging without any noticeable impact on the battery.
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Fluke 27s are autoranging and go for 1000s of hours.