Sensor data from an Adinstruments Powerlab /410 channel recorder without driver?

[Peter Gamma]

I have a Adinstruments Powerlab /410 channel recorder with a scsi interface and a rs232 data bus to connect to other Adinstrument devices. Newer Adinstruments devices have an usb interface which connect to Adinstruments Labchart software.

I don t have the Adinstruments Labchart software, and the goal is to connect the  Adinstruments Powerlab /410 channel recorder to Matlab. These older Adinstruments Powerlab /410 channel recorders connected as far as i know to Apple PCs via the SCSI interface, but I don t have an Apple PC with   SCSI interface either.

I  m using the Adinstruments Powerlab /410 channel recorder only for a respiration sensor. I hope  the  rs232 data bus of my device transmits all the data I m looking for, and I assume it's easier to get data out of a rs323 port than of a SCSI port without driver.

So I bought a rs232 to usb adapter to connect the  Powerlab /410 to my PC. The device manager of my PC shows next to the usb connection to the  Powerlab /410 also a virtual  rs232 port which hopefully transmits all the data I m looking for.

How can I get my respiration data out of the  virtual  rs232 port of my PC?
 

[Peter Gamma]

Is someone experienced with one of these serial port sniffing solutions?

https://www.virtual-serial-port.org/articles/best-serial-port-sniffer-solutions/

[thm_w]

The sniffer won't help unless you have access to the vendor software to communicate with the device.

When you use a serial port monitoring program (putty, brays terminal, etc.) and connect the 410 recorder to your PC, select the appropriate COM port, does any data show up on the screen?
Try all common baud rates, and reset the instrument to see if it sends something out at boot.

Manual doesn't specify how it works: http://m-cdn.adinstruments.com/owners-guides/PowerLab%20SP%20Series%20OG.pdf

Worst case, it has undocumented commands you need to send to it to request data. You will have to contact the vendor, find their software, or find someone else that has figured out the command set.

[Peter Gamma]

The newer channel recorders from Adinstruments have an usb interface and connect to their Labchart software.

The Adinstruments Powerlab /410 which I have is an older model with SCSI Interface and RS323 Interface. The Powerlab connected via SCSI Interface to an Apple PC with Adinstruments Labchart software.

The RS232 interface is a data bus to connect multiple Adinstruments devices to each other. I suppose this rs232 data bus contains all the data of my respiration sensor. A respiration sensor does not deliver a huge amount of data. And the signal might be detected with the right software.

Thank you for your information to use a serial port monitoring program. I could find brays terminal. The next step is to try which data is shown on the screen with this software.

[Peter Gamma]

I tried to get a signal from the RS232 with brays terminal,  and I tried all common baud rates, but I did not get a signal for the Powerlab.

The Adinstruments Powerlab /410 can be bought on ebay quite cheap, but I has only a SCSI interface and a RS232 interface. I did not find any software working for it. The Adinstruments recorders with usb costs much more.

Did some get to work an  Adinstruments Powerlab /410?

[Kean]

While I couldn't find any manuals, this photo seems to show two connectors on the back of the Powerlab/410
https://www.imagine41.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ADInstruments-Powerlab-410-006.jpg

(photo from https://www.imagine41.com/product/adinstruments-powerlab-410-dual-channel-human-psychology-teaching-system-with-owners-guide/)

One connector is old-school DB-25F SCSI, and the other is DE-9F - commonly used for RS232, but clearly marked as I2C.  I2C is very different from RS232!

Have you taken a look inside?  A photo of the PCB near the connectors may confirm the interface by the circuitry used.

Interesting to see these were/are designed/made here in Sydney.  The ADInstruments head office is just down the road from the EEVblog lab.

[Kean]

Just noticed the manual linked above by thm_w for more recent but similar PowerLab models.  It has a little info on the I2C connector, including a pin-out - but it will be a proprietary interface for adding additional sensor "front-ends".  It won't replace/duplicate the function of the SCSI bus.

[Peter Gamma]

Good to know about the RS232 and I2C stuff. So standard RS232 tools won t work for it. Still the signal must be transmitted throught this interface to other Adinstruments devices. Iv read that these channel recorders where used with Apple Macintosh computers connected over SCSI to the Adinstruments Labchart software.

The interesting thing about these recorders is that they can connect to my respiration sensors which I have from Adinstruments, and I do not have any hardware or software yet to use them . As far as I know, they also have 16 bit A/D converters integrated, which makes them interesting.

I thought about buying a SCSI card for my PC. Is someone experienced in reading out SCSI signals?

[Peter Gamma]

 Adinstruments is difficult to get information from. You can "request a price" or "book a demo" for most devices. For a price request you have to fill in a form. I asked to send me a price list, which they did not send to me. The only option I had was to give them my phone number, and they would call me back.

A little research on ebay left me without currage to do this. The newer amplifier I saw where in the range 1000 dollars and above. And the Labchart software I saw only once during a whole year on ebay for about 350 dollars .

[Peter Gamma]

How can I read out sensor data from a SCSI port?

[Kean]

How can I read out sensor data from a SCSI port?

Very likely proprietary.  I doubt anyone here would know.

[Peter Gamma]

What about reading out sensor data from a I²C port? Is I²C data transmission also proprietary?

[Kean]

Well neither SCSI or I2C low level protocols are proprietary, but the commands/registers implemented for a device like this are likely to be custom/non-standard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCSI_command
https://www.i2c-bus.org/

Based on the description in the manual I'd guess that the PowerLab unit is an I2C master, not a slave.  In other words it would look for and read data from other devices, and not accept read requests itself.

And in the case of I2C, it would be pretty easy to reverse engineer by tapping into the communications between the PowerLab and an ADInstruments front-end (assuming you have one of those as well) with a logic analyser.  This would be much harder with SCSI due to the number of connections and bus speed - plus again you'd need a working system to sniff.

[Peter Gamma]

I contacted the Adinstrumens support about the subject, and they gave me the information that the I²C port of the Adinstruments channel recorders can only be used to connect front-ends. It cannot be used to read out data.

The Adinstruments support gave me the information, that Adinstruments never sells channel recorders without software. With the serial number and the ebay seller, it was possible to find out, that the  channel recorder was from a company who went out of business some time ago.

Adinstruments gave me a replacement copy of their Chart software. The 4100 needs a SCSI card, and they gave me a Chart software is windows xp compatible. It could be installed in Windows 10 in the XP compatibilty mode.

I had problems that the fuses broke when connected the channel recorder to a power source. My hypothesis was, that the device was damaged. But the Adinstruments support gave me the information, a device to adapt the voltage from 110 V to 220 V is needed. Only the newer devices work without such an adapter.

I bought a second channel recorder from Adinstruments on ebay, a 8 SP with usb interface. Also this device was sold without software. The Adinstruments support gave me the information, I could use the same Chart software with it they gave me for the first recorder.

The 8 SP has only BNC connectors. I have Adinstruments ECG sensors and respiration sensors. They cannot be plugged in in the  8 SP. For the respiration sensor, an adapter is needed, and for the ECG sensor, an aditional Bioamp front end is needed.

The chart software is very basic. As far as I have seen, it can only be used to aquire data. But these data can be analysed with 3. party software. Adinstruments has their Labchart software. I saw it only once a year on ebay for around 350 USD. To use the 8 SP with Matlab, the Labchart software is needed.

I probably will use the Adinstruments channel recorders only as reference devices. There are other options available with more options than this basic Adinstruments equipement, which cost less, like the Bitalino low-cost medical toolkit, or simply by connecting biosensors though a soundcard to a PC:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/light-weight-usb-oscilloscope-with-matlab-support/

A full Adinstruments equipement with more options would cost I guess around 2000 USD. This is only an estimation from prices on ebay. Adinstruments does not publish any prices.

[Peter Gamma]

Adinstruments Labchart Lightning is now for free:

https://www.adinstruments.com/products/labchart/lightning

for 30 days. I have now 3 adinstruments channel recorders with Chart post-processing software, and have used none of those to this date. Maybe I test the newer one which should work with Labchart Lightning. To enoy for 30 days a real-time feeling.

[Peter Gamma]

inc. 1 ECG sensor and 2 respiration sensors, unused. Bitalino has good quality respiration sensors. And the prices of their software don t make you suffer.

Respiration rate can be estimated from ECG signals anyway by the project of Peter H Charlton , which is much more robust. And Bitalino, Scott Harden, Polar they have excellent devices which are sufficient for meditators. I won t buy from Adinstruments anymore .

[HarryMan]

Is someone experienced with one of these serial port sniffing solutions?

https://www.virtual-serial-port.org/articles/best-serial-port-sniffer-solutions/

Hi,
I use https://www.com-port-monitoring.com/ (Serial Port Monitor from eltima) is probably the best monitor.

I haven't found a good free tool that will emulate a port and record/replay comms. The commercial ones were expensive and either so limited or so complex if you want to respond to commands that I ended up using expect and python on a second machine.
This soft worthy of our kind of money..

[Peter Gamma]

Thanks, HarryMan for your advice. Unfortunately, a thief has stolen my Adinstruments channel recoders, which I have bought on ebay and I had put on the screed. I did not use them. Labchart software was too expensive for private use, and the included chart software from stone edge. There are other products on the market which are more attractive for private use, but also for scientists with limited budget. Good luck to the thief to sell these devices.