Seriously, why would anyone consider anything else than Rigol?

[Gandalf_Sr]

Tautech offered to do the necessary work and cover shipping.  Warranty wouldn't be affected.  Where did you buy yours?

Mine was bought from Saelig.com.  You're lucky to have Tautech in NZ; he reached out to the Siglent NA manager on my behalf basically asking for them to do the right thing and fix my scope but they refused.

I ended up buying a Rigol DS1054Z that got 'upgraded' and has worked really well ever since.  I also sold my Keysight scopes recently and bought an MSO5074; now I only have Rigol scopes.

[2N3055]

The best reason I ever heard for buying any electronic equipment new, is the lack of any other elecronic equipment of known accuracy to be able to test/repair second-hand equipment if it turns out to need it.  I took that to mean something has to be your datum.

Fred,

That is absolutely true!! And most of hobbyists and beginners are exactly in that position.  If you have good, calibrated, 6.5 digit meter, you can buy used Fluke 87V, verify it and be happy. If you're buying first meter, if you really want/need F87V you need to buy it new or used but calibrated so you have at least some confidence it measures true... Or if money is problem, you buy new UNI-T that is lesser quality meter but it will be dead on accurate.....At least brand new.

[EEVblog]

Hi, it's time for a new 200 MHz oscillosope and I have a serious question, that is, I really don't know.
Why would I consider other brands than Rigol, if Rigol is good, time proven, and cheap?

Their support and updates have left a lot to be desired compared to others.

[nctnico]

I've yet to grasp why everybody thinks they have to buy new!!!!

The reason is simple. New equipment has new features like a display which shows the status in a clear way, ethernet / USB connectivity, (in case of oscilloscopes) support for protocol decoding, etc.

[Elasia]

I've yet to grasp why everybody thinks they have to buy new!!!!

The reason is simple. New equipment has new features like a display which shows the status in a clear way, ethernet / USB connectivity, (in case of oscilloscopes) support for protocol decoding, etc.

CAN FD did it for me... If using the latest protocols you need new gear to match

[2N3055]

I've yet to grasp why everybody thinks they have to buy new!!!!

The reason is simple. New equipment has new features like a display which shows the status in a clear way, ethernet / USB connectivity, (in case of oscilloscopes) support for protocol decoding, etc.

CAN FD did it for me... If using the latest protocols you need new gear to match

This is important. For instance Keysight is known to update decode to match evolution in standards in currently supported models. Sometimes even in older models. LeCroy too.

I ONCE complained some time ago that MSOX3000T can count pulses on analog but not digital channels.. On next firmware update, fix was in.. That was awesome.

[Ctrlocti]

If I had open access to a true used market, I definitely should go in TEA or, better, put on coma.

Truth. I would have a real hoarding issue if I could get my dirty hands on second hand gear.
The second hand market is really a US phenomenon. Just go check the european ebay(s) and equivalent sites. Not only are the offerings a tiny fraction of what's available in the US, the prices are usually relatively high and you have to account for real shipping costs, especially if you happen to live in any offshore location. Considering that older gear weighs a lot, that entire formula results to a, for all intents and purposes, superficial market. Don't get me wrong, the market exists but its not the shopping-mall style that you can find in the US. It tends more to the customer who wants some specific old piece of gear, and will wait until a piece surfaces. It's a different game alltogether.

[nctnico]

If I had open access to a true used market, I definitely should go in TEA or, better, put on coma.

Truth. I would have a real hoarding issue if I could get my dirty hands on second hand gear.
The second hand market is really a US phenomenon. Just go check the european ebay(s) and equivalent sites. Not only are the offerings a tiny fraction of what's available in the US, the prices are usually relatively high and you have to account for real shipping costs,

Still good deals can be found even taking the shipping and taxes into account. You just have to wait a bit longer for the right deal to appear and not be afraid to make a low-ball offer. I've bought test equipment from all over the world.

[nctnico]

Still good deals can be found even taking the shipping and taxes into account.

Unless you get an absolute bargain, it might be not worth it considering modern "newer" scopes are all made of unobtainable chips, and if it woes, the only thing you can do is screaming "f* me, why did I buy this".

Nonsense. This hasn't changed at all. There is lots of used test equipment out there with custom parts.

[Ctrlocti]

If I had open access to a true used market, I definitely should go in TEA or, better, put on coma.

Truth. I would have a real hoarding issue if I could get my dirty hands on second hand gear.
The second hand market is really a US phenomenon. Just go check the european ebay(s) and equivalent sites. Not only are the offerings a tiny fraction of what's available in the US, the prices are usually relatively high and you have to account for real shipping costs,

Still good deals can be found even taking the shipping and taxes into account. You just have to wait a bit longer for the right deal to appear and not be afraid to make a low-ball offer. I've bought test equipment from all over the world.

Yes, of course it can happen. But I really think it's not as welcoming to the low-budget beginner who wants to buy his first (and only) XYZ piece of gear as the US market.

[nctnico]

Nonsense. This hasn't changed at all. There is lots of used test equipment out there with custom parts.

That is exactly my point -- even "newer" (I meant older, i.e. much older ones compared with the latest) gears are unrepairable, so any used gears with a certain modernity will be hard to fix.

OK, but still no. For example HP and Tektronix have been using custom parts for decades.

[SilverSolder]

A lot of older gear is very reliable. If you buy used gear cheaply enough, a "repair" can consist of just getting another one. 

The main downside of older equipment is often the physical size...

[Jay1011]

Hobbyist here.  I'm in the market for my first scope and plan to buy a low-end but new Keysight DSO12xx soon.  Why a new KS and not a less expensive Rigol/Siglent or a used scope?  In my view, a few reasons:

• I want something that works reasonably reliably, both in terms of the scope features/UI and its electrical performance.  I get paid to deal with crap CAD tools for my day job; I don't want to deal with similar for my hobby, especially for stuff like SPI/I2C decoding.  No, KS won't be perfect, but it will be good enough for me for sure.
• Modern KS scopes in particular seem to retain their values very well in terms of resale on EBay or the like.  This means
  • I likely can sell my scope a few years down the road if need be and recoup a good portion of what I paid for it
  • It makes little sense to buy a used KS scope; better to spend a little more money and get a new scope with support and warranty
• The raw cost difference is perhaps ~500 USD.  I am fortunate that my income permits me to spend the additional money on something that I'll keep for a few years.  I realize not every hobbyist is in this position.
• I don't need the higher bandwidths that a Rigol/Siglent can be hacked to support.  I do primarily digital "hacking projects" and nothing I'd attach a scope to in my designs is much above a couple 10s of MHz.

[tv84]

Hobbyist here.  I'm in the market for my first scope and plan to buy a low-end but new Keysight DSO12xx soon. 

Jay, you stated with your reasons and, in your case, I totally agree with them.

[SilverSolder]

Hobbyist here.  I'm in the market for my first scope and plan to buy a low-end but new Keysight DSO12xx soon. 
[...]
I do primarily digital "hacking projects" and nothing I'd attach a scope to in my designs is much above a couple 10s of MHz.

Why not an MSO model, if you are doing digital stuff?

[nctnico]

Hobbyist here.  I'm in the market for my first scope and plan to buy a low-end but new Keysight DSO12xx soon.  Why a new KS and not a less expensive Rigol/Siglent or a used scope?  In my view, a few reasons:

• I want something that works reasonably reliably, both in terms of the scope features/UI and its electrical performance.  I get paid to deal with crap CAD tools for my day job; I don't want to deal with similar for my hobby, especially for stuff like SPI/I2C decoding.  No, KS won't be perfect, but it will be good enough for me for sure.

Well, I'd say the memory is way to short for what you want to use it for. 2Mpts (IIRC) which translates to 500kpts per channel in real usage scenarios. And even less if you add digital channels. In your case I'd consider looking at GW Instek, Siglent (hopefully they fix the memory management soon) or R&S; at least the recent models from these manufacturers have deep memory. I'm also not convinced that Keysight's UI is that spectacular. I used to own an older model but setting up decoding or anything special like math was really clumsy. At least buy a Keysight model with a touchscreen so you don't need to use the buttons below the screen and the selector knob.

Resale value is highly overrated. Test equipment devaluates faster than a car.

[bdunham7]

Why would anyone consider anything other than a $10 voltmeter?

Ignorant fanboys that just want that Fluke name badge, of course! 

Sadly people on both sides of the fence seem to think that way.   My response when somebody asks; is to always buy a Fluke if you need a handheld meter.   Is that being a fanboy or jut a reflection of years of industrial experience and being treated well by Fluke.   Some companies earn their reputations.

My comment was meant sarcastically, but there are those, like the OP, that pore over spec sheets, price lists and features they don't need can't grasp the unspecified reasons that a more expensive product just might be worth it.  There's another thread with a guy who has an apparently still working decades-old 8060A and 'upgraded' to an Aneng 8008 and was shocked that things didn't go well. 

[Jay1011]

Yes, I meant the DSOX12xx, almost certainly the DSOX1204A.  I don't need the wavegen of the "G" model, but I want 4 channels for full SPI decoding (and I2S if it supports it) as well as general flexibility.

Well, I'd say the memory is way to short for what you want to use it for. 2Mpts (IIRC) which translates to 500kpts per channel in real usage scenarios. And even less if you add digital channels. In your case I'd consider looking at GW Instek, Siglent (hopefully they fix the memory management soon) or R&S; at least the recent models from these manufacturers have deep memory. I'm also not convinced that Keysight's UI is that spectacular. I used to own an older model but setting up decoding or anything special like math was really clumsy. At least buy a Keysight model with a touchscreen so you don't need to use the buttons below the screen and the selector knob.

Resale value is highly overrated. Test equipment devaluates faster than a car.

The datasheet says 2M depth per channel for one- or half-channel operation, and 1M depth per channel otherwise.  Sure, more would be better, but 1M is enough for me I think.

Yeah, I'd like a touchscreen scope, but that's the KS 2xxx series or above, which are (a lot) more money, and in the case of the DSOX2xxx, barely better specs than the DSOX12xxx scopes these days.  I can't justify the additional cost.

Not sure why you say resale is overrated.  KS scopes may or may not "devaluate faster than a car" (a 5 year old scope would be perhaps 50% of its original cost?), but I have yet to see in a few months of looking a completed EBay sale where a recent KS scope in good condition, with similar capabilities and with probes, has been sold at a price that would make it attractive compared to a new DSOX1204A.  I'm sure that has happened, but I haven't seen it.  Note that I don't want a "too old" KS/Agilent scope because I want the modern features (serial decode especially) and I want a physically small scope due to space limitations at home.

[Jay1011]

Why not an MSO model, if you are doing digital stuff?

The digital features of MSOs I've seen have come across to me as hacky/frustrating.  I'd much rather get a low-end logic analyzer, something like an Analog Discovery2 or Digital Discovery.

[nctnico]

Yes, I meant the DSOX12xx, almost certainly the DSOX1204A.  I don't need the wavegen of the "G" model, but I want 4 channels for full SPI decoding (and I2S if it supports it) as well as general flexibility.

Well, I'd say the memory is way to short for what you want to use it for. 2Mpts (IIRC) which translates to 500kpts per channel in real usage scenarios. And even less if you add digital channels. In your case I'd consider looking at GW Instek, Siglent (hopefully they fix the memory management soon) or R&S; at least the recent models from these manufacturers have deep memory. I'm also not convinced that Keysight's UI is that spectacular. I used to own an older model but setting up decoding or anything special like math was really clumsy. At least buy a Keysight model with a touchscreen so you don't need to use the buttons below the screen and the selector knob.

Resale value is highly overrated. Test equipment devaluates faster than a car.

The datasheet says 2M depth per channel for one- or half-channel operation, and 1M depth per channel otherwise.  Sure, more would be better, but 1M is enough for me I think.

Check the manual again; likely this is in single shot mode only. In normal mode it will use dual buffering which halfs the memory again. Also digital channels are very useful because -unlike a logic analyser- you can see the signals realtime.

[rsjsouza]

Jay, for an A-brand the price/performance of the Keysight is unbeatable. The official price of a DSOX1204A (~1000USD at Keysight page), however, puts you at the level of a Rigol MSO5074 or a GW Instek GDS-2074E. 

I echo what nctnico is saying: due to the reputation and popularity of the Rigol and Siglent oscilloscopoes, the resale value at this price point will be eroded severely no matter what brand you get - after all, the price of a new unit is already low and flattens the price range of used units. In other words, a used Keysight at, say, 50% of its value would be competing head-to-head to a brand new and more capable unit from the other popular brands. I personally wouldn't worry about this aspect: buy what you want and don't look back.

[Jay1011]

Check the manual again; likely this is in single shot mode only. In normal mode it will use dual buffering which halfs the memory again. Also digital channels are very useful because -unlike a logic analyser- you can see the signals realtime.

Good point.  I will check that, but I doubt 500K vs. 1M depth would change my decision.

[nctnico]

With 500kpts of memory you'll run into decoding problems quickly if you need to capture several packets. You'll lose resolution due to low samplerate and find yourself needing to trigger on very specific conditions in order to find specific packets. I'd recommend to get a scope with at least 10Mpts of memory if one of the  uses is decoding packets. I also recommend getting a 4 channel oscilloscope for SPI.

[2N3055]

Check the manual again; likely this is in single shot mode only. In normal mode it will use dual buffering which halfs the memory again. Also digital channels are very useful because -unlike a logic analyser- you can see the signals realtime.

Good point.  I will check that, but I doubt 500K vs. 1M depth would change my decision.

Nico is right.
If you want to decode 500K is limitation. So is only 50 segments. Only reason why MSOX3000T can handle any serious decoding is that it can have 1000 segments. One thing that works for Keysight is that decode works even at very low sample rate, even when signal on screen looks like crap..But that defeats purpose of looking at it with a scope.
DSOX1204  is perfect as an analog scope replacement. For more advanced digital scope use is disappointing..

Performance and specs of GW Instek GDS-2074E is absolutely superior in every aspect. Every. On Rigol and Siglent you might be reticent because platforms are new and not mature yet. And you don't want to wait a bit for them to sort it out.
That being said, Siglent has been more diligent fixing stuff lately than, say, R&S was and still is.
But GW Instek is rock solid, has fantastic performance and many measurements DSOX1204 doesn't...
Your only reason to buy DSOX1204 would be something else than real technical advantage.
Of course, you will buy what you want. It is you money and you have your reasons.

[Mr. Scram]

The ASIC and the resultant performance and ease of use is a technology based argument and arguably the main attraction of the Keysight oscilloscopes. I have little doubt it's the reason Dave still prefers a Keysight as his daily driver. The ASIC oscilloscopes are honestly just a joy to use.