Auction Score: HP Infinium 54825

[Ice-Tea]

Hi Folks,

I scored quite nicely at the  Lund auction  some time ago. Went to get the stuff (nice roadtrip, snowstorm, nude dancing in front of Swedish customs (don't ask)) so I now have a mountain of scopes to play with. Started with the HP Infinium as it was perhaps the biggest gamble of a all... The description at the auction mentioned: "Including Probes Boot up Fault NTLDR Missing". So, this was going to be as easy as getting a recovery disk, of fumble around a bit with the Windows disk, plug it into another system to replace whatever file is missing, somehting like that. Or.... it could be that the entire drive was bad. Then again it could be easy (any IDE drive would do) or hard (Bios has whitelistes specific types). And I'd have to get the install disk too. So this one had me worried, I still payed 470$ for it...

So, let's get this going!



Eh? Asking for a date and time? That's not something that Windows does if he never got beyond the NTLDR check. This is a happy, fully working Windows! I obviously tried a few times and it booted without complaints every time. Been using the scope on and off for a few weeks now and we get along quite nicely! So, that is alucky break for sure! Next time I booted up the time warning was gone, tested the scope and it works flawlesly. But there's actually something else that will define if I'm actually going to make a buck or two or not: accesories! Chief amongst them: probes. The auction blurb mentioned probes included so this should be good! This is what I got:



Should have gotten 4 probes, got two. On the other hand, what always goes missing? Probe caps! Got three of those. Which is odd. As a reminder: these probes go for 180€ a pop, so yes: probes matter!

But... hold on, what is this??



Oh? Foam inserts? Looks expensive, what is it? It's a E2697A 1M Impedance adapter! Yay! And Farnell tells me this gear cost a pretty penny. I'm so happy I got a... hold on... The datasheet says: "The E2697A provides the 1 M? impedance input required by some oscilloscope probes for use with the 5485xA series Infiniium oscilloscopes. In addition, the E2697A has a built-in coupling control which allows you to switch from dc to ac coupling and a built-in attenuation control which alllows you to switch from 10:1 to 1:1 attenuation.". It also is supposed to have another 10074C probe there. Honnestly? I still don't know what this is supposed to do! For probes that require 1M input impedance? The scope provides 50 or 1M? So what is the deal here? I don't get it... Anyone here that might explain what this can be used for?



I used both this scope and the LeCroy over the past few weeks. The LeCroy obviously has the better specs but the HP is just... more fun I suppose. Looks and feels more modern, easier to use. So while I figured I'd keep the LeCroy and offload the HP, I'm leaning in the other direction now. One problem though: the scope feels... limited: Per example: there's a quick measure button, which is nice, but what about non-quick measurements? No button to setup that. The answer is simple: there's a mouse/keyboard interface too. I'm guessing all the advanced features are there. Only problem: requires a PS/2 mouse and qinch keyboard. I have none of those right now. So next step: get me some more old crap and see what this scope really can do! So, stay tuned!

[Wuerstchenhund]

I used both this scope and the LeCroy over the past few weeks. The LeCroy obviously has the better specs but the HP is just... more fun I suppose. Looks and feels more modern, easier to use. So while I figured I'd keep the LeCroy and offload the HP, I'm leaning in the other direction now.

Well, your LeCroy LC is slightly older, and yes that Windows UI on a TFT does looks nicer than the LeCroy UI on the old-style CRT.

But these were HP's first Windows scopes, and when they came out they were pretty bad. We had tons of them back then (the first ones ran Windows 95, the later ones Windows 98), and at the end had to return them because they were so unreliable and buggy (not just the software, we also had a fair share of hardware issues). Many of the problems have been fixed in subsequent updates, but they were still somewhat slow and basic scopes, plus the UI pretty much requires the use of a mouse which on the bench isn't really that practical. HP knew that, and came up with voice control, which never worked satisfactorily though.

Subsequent models (which ran W2k and later XP) were more reliable, but still pretty slow (with abysmal update rates) and functionally limited mostly due to their architecture. It took Agilent really a long time to finally come up with a proper Windows scope (DSO9k).

Another thing to keep in mind is that the 54800A Series was HP's lower mid-range scope (and the 54825 was on the lower end of the 54800 Series) with somewhat limited capabilities, and slow processing performance. On the other side, the LeCroy LC you have was a true high end scope with fast ADCs, high bandwidth, fast processing (fast PowerPC) and an pretty much endless list of measurement and math capabilities (and getting the options enabled is a piece of cake).  The UI is a bit different than many some other scopes but once you get the basic idea it's really pretty logical and quick to select any function you need. Plus because the UI was standardized across these older LeCroy scopes once you know the LC you also know how to operate a 9300 Series scope, a WaveRunner LT, WaveRunner2 LT and WavePro 900.

Considering that the ebay crowd often bids ridiculous amounts of money on anything from HP/Agilent/Keysight while LeCroy kit regularly goes for pretty low prices (it's a brand often unknown by punters which often only search for HP/Agilent/Keysight and Tek), if I were you I'd get the Infiniium running, clean it up and sell it on, and keep the LC instead and enjoy the cash.

Just my $0.02

[H.O]

Nice score!
I once spent a couple of hours trying to figure out the NTLDR missing error message on a Windows based orbital welding machine - only to find there was a floppy in the drive which it apparently tried to boot from but couldn't. Removed the floppy and it was back in business. Perhaps something similar was going on with your scope?

[Ice-Tea]

@Wuerstchenhund You are absolutely right: the LeCroy is a *lot* better in most ways (even though I found no buginess on the HP). If nothing else: 8M memory vs 32k. And indeed, having to use mouse/KB to access functions is not much fun. But the HP is more intuitive for sure, and yes: the TFT makes quite a difference. Another thing to consider is probes. The LeCroy is capable of 1GHz but does not have probes. To make a decent measurement that would use the entire BW would require active probes. So the question is: will I be splashing a few k$ on a set of active probes? Probably not, so I'd buy a few passive ones and have the 500MHz or so the HP also offers...

You point, off course, is quite valid: I may very well fetch more $$ for the HP even though the LeCroy is obviously better. So the list with pros and cons is growing longer... Time will tell. I'll be using both and eventually one will have to loose. I think. Or I could keep both. Oooooohhh.. More scopes! O0

[Ice-Tea]

Nice score!
I once spent a couple of hours trying to figure out the NTLDR missing error message on a Windows based orbital welding machine - only to find there was a floppy in the drive which it apparently tried to boot from but couldn't. Removed the floppy and it was back in business. Perhaps something similar was going on with your scope?

Quite possible! I must say it was a pleasant surprise when it whirled to life first try

EDIT: also, still wondering what the f**k that impedance adapter is supposed to do....

[Wuerstchenhund]

@Wuerstchenhund You are absolutely right: the LeCroy is a *lot* better in most ways (even though I found no buginess on the HP). If nothing else: 8M memory vs 32k. And indeed, having to use mouse/KB to access functions is not much fun. But the HP is more intuitive for sure, and yes: the TFT makes quite a difference.

It certainly does. A color CRT with its inherent focus and convergence issues isn't the best kind of display for a DSO like the LC, which is why the CRT-based LC500 was quickly replaced by the LC600 Series with TFT screen. However, since the CRT in your LC is really just an industrial VGA monitor which internally connects to a standard VGA port, you could pretty easily replace it with a CRT.

Another thing to consider is probes. The LeCroy is capable of 1GHz but does not have probes. To make a decent measurement that would use the entire BW would require active probes. So the question is: will I be splashing a few k$ on a set of active probes? Probably not, so I'd buy a few passive ones and have the 500MHz or so the HP also offers...

Getting probes for a LeCroy scope for cheap isn't difficult. All LeCroy scopes starting with the 9300 Series in the early '90s use the same probe interface (ProBus), with the exception of the WaveMaster/LabMaster (ProLink) and the bought-in low end stuff from Siglent and Itwatsu (pretty much basic BNC), and there is a really large selection of ProBus probes available. I bought myself some a HPF1000 1GHz active probe for $130 and got some AP033 and AP034 500MHz and 1GHz active probes for prices in a similar range. With some patience you can often get them incredibly cheap. Simply because there are a lot less people looking for LeCroy probes than for HP/Agilent/Keysight and Tek probes. Not sure if the HFP probes (which are pretty new) work on the LC (it's firmware might be too old) but the AP033/034 probes definitely work.

[Wuerstchenhund]

EDIT: also, still wondering what the f**k that impedance adapter is supposed to do....

As the name suggests, it's an adapter that matches the 1M impedance of a probe to the 50ohm impedance of a scope. High bandwidth high end scopes often come with 50ohms inputs only, so to connect a standard 1M passive probe you need an adapter like the E2697A to match the 1M interface of the probe to the 50ohms interface of the scope.

It doesn't make much sense for the 54825A (it probably belonged to another scope that was sold in that auction), but should on its own fetch quite a bit of money as these adapters are pretty expensive.

[Ice-Tea]

@Wuerscht Figured it would be something like that but why is it in this scopes pouch? Is there an advantage to putting the scope in 50 ohm mode and using the adapter? 

As for the cheap(ish) probes: good to know. And so the pro/con list grows larger 

[Wuerstchenhund]

@Wuerscht Figured it would be something like that but why is it in this scopes pouch? Is there an advantage to putting the scope in 50 ohm mode and using the adapter? 

No, there's no advantage. It's simply a necessity for scopes that have 50ohms only inputs (like the 54850A, or the Infiniium 84800A and DSO90k Series) if you want to use high impedance probes. It makes no sense whatsoever for a 54825A.

You probably got it because someone with no idea about this stuff just put together bundles of kit to auction off. That happens pretty often in these industrial auctions, you often get parts that belong to some other piece of equipment that was sold in a separate lot.

Still, it's your gain, as these adapters are pretty pricey, plus it fits the DSO90k Series, so if I were you I'd sell it off individually. With some luck You might get almost the same money for this adapter as for the 54825A scope itself.

[Ice-Tea]

I noticed the silly price indeed. Fingers crossed! Bit unfortunate the probe is not included. Maybe I'll "sacrifice" one of the 10074 probes to make it a complete set...

[Wuerstchenhund]

I noticed the silly price indeed. Fingers crossed! Bit unfortunate the probe is not included. Maybe I'll "sacrifice" one of the 10074 probes to make it a complete set...

Yeah, I'd do that. Better to have a complete E2697A set than having two probes to go with the scope.

[Ice-Tea]

So, been tinkering with these a bit more. Dug up an AT keyboard and a PS/2 mouse, which allows acces to a lot more goodies. Amongst which: self test!




So, that's pretty good! In addition, this allows acces to more measurements functions (FFT, eye-test, histogram,...). To be honnest, having to have to use the mouse to get to some measurements is awkward. Using the scope is natural, intuitive, easy,... right untill you reach the limits of the button interface and then the fun is over.

I also tried to connect over the network to it, but that was no great succes. The help file on the machine seems absent and I can't figure out how else to get this going. Maybe just because this machine comes from a time where setting up a network was more than plugging a device in and wait for the autorun to solve all your problems.

All that said: I decided to sell this one and keep the LeCroy. Unless this one doesn't fetch a decent price. We'll see. Speaking of which: as you all know, selling stuff on eBay leaves a lot of money in the pockets of eBay and Paypal. So, anyone interested in this great unit (forget all the negative stuff I said )), let me know!

[Wuerstchenhund]

All that said: I decided to sell this one and keep the LeCroy.

Good decision. The LC will be far more useful for pretty much anything.

Unless this one doesn't fetch a decent price. We'll see. Speaking of which: as you all know, selling stuff on eBay leaves a lot of money in the pockets of eBay and Paypal. So, anyone interested in this great unit (forget all the negative stuff I said )), let me know!

I might be interested for a project, but frankly I wouldn't spend much money on a slow 2GSa/s scope, so I probably won't pay what you want for it.

I'd put it into the sale/buy section of the forum, maybe you get lucky.

[Ice-Tea]

I'll post it there.

In the meantime, feel free to PM me a number and we'll see

[Radio_Fan]

Hello--

I purchased an HP 54825 a while ago but have noticed that the triggering
behavior is unstable-- i.e., using internal sync, a displayed waveform shows
horizontal jitter that never quite goes away with any setting of the sync trigger level.

Before I dig into the scope, has anyone had experience in troubleshooting
this scope's sync circuits? My first instinct is to scope out the power supplies
for excess ripple.

Thanks in advance!