Products > Test Equipment

Should I buy a Rigol MSO5000?

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2N3055:

--- Quote from: Martin72 on April 06, 2019, 02:46:13 pm ---Rigols seems to be convinced of having a functional hi-res mode….makes me nervous.

--- End quote ---
Yep it's scary a bit. Or they just wont admit publicly .. We'll see..

nctnico:

--- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 06, 2019, 02:36:37 pm ---LOL, talk about marketing..

R/S in HIRES mode drops to 300Ks/sec and shows undersampling. Rigol still samples at 2Gs/sec so shows signal properly.

--- End quote ---
No. It is the overdrive recovery which distorts the signal. Look carefully at the time/div. And the ADC samplerate doesn't drop on the R&S. On the RTM3004 the high res mode adds up to 6 bits extra and I assume this is the same on the RTB2000. To get 6 bits extra you need to oversample at least 4^6 =4096 times. The R&S keeps showing the resulting samplerate AFTER doing the oversampling needed to get the extra resolution. 1.25Gs/s / 4096=305ks/s

The use case shown in the video is a bit odd. One would use zoom mode to just look at the extra bits you get from high-res mode and not expand the signal. The whole point of having extra resolution is to be able to use the zoom mode to get more detail. The video goes from showing high-res mode to showing overdrive recovery but then fails to show how the high res mode on the MSO5000 is better compared to the RTB2000. It doesn't add up.

Fungus:

--- Quote from: Martin72 on April 06, 2019, 02:46:13 pm ---Rigols seems to be convinced of having a functional hi-res mode….makes me nervous.

--- End quote ---

Any video like that is only made to hide something.  :popcorn:

Technically speaking: They're showing more real information with that color gradient thing, it shows the real signal and the surrounding noise. If you were a robot, that's what you'd want to see.

OTOH humans like to imagine that signals are perfect and want to see the ideal version of a signal, hence the popularity of hi-res mode.

NoisyBoy:
I generally like the new Keysight test equipment as I grew up with the HP/Agilent/Keysight family, love the hardware and the support.

The concern I have with the old 54835A is not the hardware, but the fact that it runs on Windows 98, a 20+ years old OS GUI shell which in turn runs on top of DOS, a nearly 40 years old OS.  I worked closely with both MSFT/IBM OS development in my early career, and I can still remember all the hard work to develop Windows NT and OS/2 so we could move off DOS into a protected kernel based architecture and remove the memory limitation.  Win 98 had its place back in those days, but I would not touch either with a 10' pole now.

It was an easy way to slap a GUI on a scope 20 years ago, so I understand why Agilent chose it. But I would rather pick a scope without Windows in it if I were to go back to using vintage equipment.  Better yet, I would pay more to get a current Keysight if I were to stay with the Agilent/Keysight family. 

This is just a personal preference based on the behind-the-scene knowledge of Win 98, so I am not implying that everyone should do the same.  We should all pick the gear we are most comfortable with.


--- Quote from: nctnico on April 06, 2019, 09:40:15 am ---
--- Quote from: Martin72 on April 06, 2019, 09:28:49 am ---Having any passive probe on high frequency ruins everything.
The derating curves are nothing unusual, you can make it a little bit "better", but you can´t fight against the "nature" of a passive probe:

http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/pp006a_manual.pdf


--- Quote --- the best "bang for buck" is a used LeCroy 1 or 2 GHz scope
--- End quote ---

If you need the Ghz bandwith, if you have enough space on your bench to place it onto, if you don´t have a problem with old crt-screens, if you generally don´t worry about the age, appx 20yrs, and the risks of something going defective after all these years, if you don´t need usb and network connections because you have 3.5" disks and diskdrive avaible or love to print the screenshot with the internal printer out or having a rs232 port on your pc, finally if you don´t worry about a few kpts of memory, than you should grab your 1000 bucks and go for a lecoy LC/DDA scope.

--- End quote ---
Lecroy isn't the only option. For $1000 you can pick up an Agilent 54835A which has a TFT screen, USB and ethernet. Hack it to become a 54845A and have 1GHz / 4Gs/s on 4 channels or 1.5GHz / 8Gs/s on 2 channels on a scope which is designed for high speed signal analysis. I have used this scope to resolve delays in the tens of ps range. The trigger on this oscilloscope is extremely stable.

And there are other options too like the Tektronix TDS700 series. A floppy to USB emulator can solve the problem of needing a disk drive.

--- Quote ---Yep and it´s not alone, even the RTB series from R&S don´t have it too.

--- End quote ---
But the RTB2000 only goes to 200MHz. 500MHz bandwidth without real 50 Ohm inputs is madness.

--- End quote ---

nctnico:

--- Quote from: NoisyBoy on April 06, 2019, 04:34:35 pm ---I generally like the new Keysight test equipment as I grew up with the HP/Agilent/Keysight family, love the hardware and the support.

The concern I have with the old 54835A is not the hardware, but the fact that it runs on Windows 98, a 20+ years old OS GUI shell which in turn runs on top of DOS, a nearly 40 years old OS.  I worked closely with both MSFT/IBM OS development in my early career, and I can still remember all the hard work to develop Windows NT and OS/2 so we could move off DOS into a protected kernel based architecture and remove the memory limitation.  Win 98 had its place back in those days, but I would not touch either with a 10' pole now.

--- End quote ---
This reasoning doesn't make any sense. It is an oscilloscope and Win98 is just the OS to make it go. The entire system has been build to work as a whole and it will work the same way today as it did when it got released. It is not like you'll use it to run MS Office 2019 or go browsing on internet.

20 years from now the Linux which drives most modern test equipment will be extremely outdated as well but that doesn't make the instrument any less useful.

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