| Products > Test Equipment |
| Should I buy a Rigol MSO5000? |
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| 2N3055:
@ petemate: That is good question, petemate. Reason for it to be in hardware is speed. Done right, with 8x oversampling you get 1GS/sec sampling rate and additional 1.5 bit res. and with16x 500MS/sec and 2+ bits. And all would be real time with no slowdown in any scope operation. Some manufacturers prefer to do it in software, or better to say postprocessing. Lecroy is such. It slows down refresh rate but will have an advantage that ORIGINAL samples are preserved. No data is decimated and/or lost. You always get original pure sampled data in a buffer so you can massage it later to your heart's will. First approach is great for interactive scopes that you use to probe around and general use. Second approach is great if you tend to analyse data in depth.. Tool for the job. Ideally, you should have both.. In reality, you get one that fits most of your use cases. Regards, |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: petemate on April 06, 2019, 10:31:34 am ---Im really glad that there is this much debate on the topic. Its a great way for me to reflect on my decision, which at the moment is leaning towards "wait 6-12 months". One question regarding the missing hi-res acquisition that most people agree is an issue: There are 8 bits at 8GSPS. Thats not going to change with the chipset. As far as I know, hi-res mode is just averaging of a number of sequential samples, providing the possibility to get "increased resolution", since the average of n samples can produce a value that is in-between each sample value. Why would this be a hardware issue? I get that you can do it in HW, but why can't it be added as a software fix? --- End quote --- Traditionally hi-res mode is done in hardware (let's not debate when it is done during acquisition or while processing the data to draw the waveform) and it offers a filter which reduces high frequency content and increases the number of bits to get more resolution. The usual oversampling requirements apply: there has to be enough noise and the ADCs need to be reasonably linear. So hi-res mode may not give you the extra resolution you might expect because it is still bound to the laws of physics behind sampling theory. The biggest advantage of hi-res mode is that it cleans up a noisy signal so you get a nice sharp trace. The downside of high-res mode is that the filter cut-off frequency depends entirely on the samplerate. Therefore IMHO a better feature is input filtering. This is available on some oscilloscopes. Input filtering offers more flexibility because you can set the cut-off frequency independant of the sampling rate, the filter is more agressive and usually you can choose between low-pass, band-pass and high-pass. Now back to your question: can high-res mode be done in software? Yes it can but it will slow down the waveform update rate considerably. I see in the MSO5000 specs that it should do hi-res mode so why it isn't working is a good question. |
| Fungus:
--- Quote from: nctnico on April 05, 2019, 05:59:04 pm ---You are not getting the point TK is making. If you leave features out of an ASIC then doing a redesign will take a lot of time and money. --- End quote --- Is that true? Surely it's all done with CAD systems these days, not teams of people armed with huge sheets of paper and rolls of black masking tape. A minor change to an ASIC could be a few mouse clicks then press "print". |
| 2N3055:
--- Quote from: Martin72 on April 06, 2019, 10:48:37 am ---But without them, bugs which might appear during daily measuring (and creates countless different measure-situtations) would be hard to find. I own one since end of November and since december-march I was in contact to the rigol support, telling problems, what could be better and so on. --- End quote --- I know and I appreciate effort. It's just I don't have time for it. I wish I had time to play with it, but I don't. --- Quote from: Martin72 on April 06, 2019, 10:48:37 am --- --- Quote ---They both need 50 Ohm termination... --- End quote --- And it will looks like this: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2270838/#msg2270838 --- End quote --- I presume proper implementation. But also, it is convenient to just switch it on... --- Quote from: Martin72 on April 06, 2019, 10:48:37 am --- --- Quote ---I personally wouldn't buy MSO5000/7000 for business right now because I don't have time to be part of debug process.. --- End quote --- Same here, my colleagues shouldn´t be part of it - we need things that works proper for i.e. acceptance tests. But if some bugs were eliminated, it could be a cheap tool for daily measurings and if some gets broken, just buying new instead of repairing. --- End quote --- I personally have no doubts they will fix bugs. They did for 1000Z, but it might take time. Once they fix them, it won't be just usable. It will be great.. It is potentially much better than just basic tool. It has many measurements, deep memory, fast refresh rate, decodes.... Regards, |
| Fungus:
--- Quote from: Martin72 on April 06, 2019, 10:48:37 am --- --- Quote ---I personally wouldn't buy MSO5000/7000 for business right now because I don't have time to be part of debug process.. --- End quote --- Same here, my colleagues shouldn´t be part of it - we need things that works proper for i.e. acceptance tests. But if some bugs were eliminated, it could be a cheap tool for daily measurings and if some gets broken, just buying new instead of repairing. --- End quote --- There's room in the world for both types of user, why can't people see that? --- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 06, 2019, 10:50:11 am ---Tool for the job. Ideally, you should have both.. In reality, you get one that fits most of your use cases. --- End quote --- Yep, and if you rely on any particular data analysis function then either test it before purchase and/or have another system in place. eg. --- Quote from: dietert1 on April 05, 2019, 03:18:22 pm ---Last year we bought a Rigol DS2202E that came with a free options package. The scope works well, it's more or less quiet and it is handy for servicing other stuff. I mean with an expensive scope you think twice before taking it from its place. Some weeks ago we wanted to use the I2C decoder for the first time, but it did not produce any meaningful results. ... I got the work done with our LeCroy Waverunner. --- End quote --- Has the DS2202E given $750 of value? Your comment about "handy for servicing other stuff" suggests it has, if so then it was a good purchase. In your case the I2C wasn't a showstopper because you had another device handy that could do it. That's the way a sensible company should function, IMHO, not by trying to buy a Nirvanascope(tm) for every single employee because said employee might need a minor function twice a year. For hobbyists? You can buy a $6 device on eBay to decode I2C. If you only need I2C a couple of times per year then would a 'scope with working I2C for three times the price be a better purchase than a DS2202E+a $6 gadget? (I say "No") It's fun to complain about bugs on the internet but real life has to be practical. |
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