Products > Test Equipment
Should I buy a Rigol MSO5000?
2N3055:
--- Quote from: Fungus on April 06, 2019, 11:09:39 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on April 05, 2019, 05:59:04 pm ---You are not getting the point TK is making. If you leave features out of an ASIC then doing a redesign will take a lot of time and money.
--- End quote ---
Is that true?
Surely it's all done with CAD systems these days, not teams of people armed with huge sheets of paper and rolls of black masking tape. A minor change to an ASIC could be a few mouse clicks then press "print".
--- End quote ---
ASICs by Rigol are designed differently than Keysight's in 3000T/4000/6000 series.
It has analog front end ASIC with high bandwidth and attenuators for simpler (cheaper) front end design.
Also they have ADC chip ASIC that is pretty much ADC chip that is a bit customized to work with scopes.
Data then goes to FPGA for processing. Waveform engine is in FPGA.
So they can change many things at will, more so than Keysight...
Problems I see is that analog front-end seems noisy, and have low sensitivity (5mV /DIV seems to be most sensitive range, with others doing 1mV/DIV or 500uV/DIV).
That cannot be made better without redesign..
Also, very high bandwidth ADC will be noisy..
We'll see how they handle the situation..
Mr Nutts:
--- Quote from: Martin72 on April 06, 2019, 09:28:49 am ---If you need the Ghz bandwith, if you have enough space on your bench to place it onto, if you don´t have a problem with old crt-screens, if you generally don´t worry about the age, appx 20yrs, and the risks of something going defective after all these years, if you don´t need usb and network connections because you have 3.5" disks and diskdrive avaible or love to print the screenshot with the internal printer out or having a rs232 port on your pc, finally if you don´t worry about a few kpts of memory, than you should grab your 1000 bucks and go for a lecoy LC/DDA scope.
--- End quote ---
LOL, you don't need to pay a Grand for a LC with CRT there are lots of them which go for a lot less and with a lot more memory than a few kpts :-DD
But Waveruner LT and Wavepro 900 are now so cheap that it doesn't make much sense to go for the older scopes. LT comes with I think 8Mpts and the Wavepro with up to 64Mpts, and instead of USB one can just use CompactFlash cards to transfer data via the rear PCMCIA port ;)
Or just get one which has the optional network card ;)
From what I was told both LT and Wavepro 900 were made by IWATSU and should be very reliable, also service manual and schematics are available :)
Martin72:
--- Quote ---I see in the MSO5000 specs that it should do hi-res mode so why it isn't working is a good question.
--- End quote ---
Same was on the 7000 - although it´s implemented in the SPU, see ultravision II platform details.
After the fw upgrade you can select hi-res and something will happen:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2233980/#msg2233980
But not in the way as expected, as known from siglent or lecroy scopes.
--- Quote ---LOL, you don't need to pay a Grand for a LC with CRT there are lots of them which go for a lot less and with a lot more memory than a few kpts
--- End quote ---
Not here. ;)
2N3055:
--- Quote from: Fungus on April 06, 2019, 11:36:13 am ---
--- Quote from: dietert1 on April 05, 2019, 03:18:22 pm ---Last year we bought a Rigol DS2202E that came with a free options package.
The scope works well, it's more or less quiet and it is handy for servicing other stuff. I mean with an expensive scope you think twice before taking it from its place.
Some weeks ago we wanted to use the I2C decoder for the first time, but it did not produce any meaningful results. ... I got the work done with our LeCroy Waverunner.
--- End quote ---
Has the DS2202E given $750 of value? Your comment about "handy for servicing other stuff" suggests it has, if so then it was a good purchase.
In your case the I2C wasn't a showstopper because you had another device handy that could do it. That's the way a sensible company should function, IMHO, not by trying to buy a Nirvanascope(tm) for every single employee because said employee might need a minor function twice a year.
For hobbyists? You can buy a $6 device on eBay to decode I2C. If you only need I2C a couple of times per year then would a 'scope with working I2C for three times the price be a better purchase than a DS2202E+a $6 gadget? (I say "No")
It's fun to complain about bugs on the internet but real life has to be practical.
--- End quote ---
In that particular case it could have been user error. I cannot say without more detail. Rigol terminology is, well, weird sometimes, defaults are not logical. Decodes sometimes take time to do it right. Unlike LeCroy or Keysight or R/S that make it easier to setup things.
A bit of trivia: MSOX3000T/4000 doesn't recognize error if you put in an address from 10bit address range into 7bit address I2C packet. It decodes it as a nice, 7bit ADR packet without any error. Picoscope showed an error, saying packet is malformed 10 bit ADR packet. It KNOWS that was 10bit address and expected different packet.
We are talking about 18000USD list price instrument, and Picoscope 2000 series would do the job right ....
Is it crap for it?? Nope, because it does so many other things right...
Is it perfect? No, that is why I have other scopes..
Fungus:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 06, 2019, 11:37:09 am ---ASICs by Rigol are designed differently than Keysight's in 3000T/4000/6000 series.
It has analog front end ASIC with high bandwidth and attenuators for simpler (cheaper) front end design.
Also they have ADC chip ASIC that is pretty much ADC chip that is a bit customized to work with scopes.
Data then goes to FPGA for processing. Waveform engine is in FPGA.
So they can change many things at will, more so than Keysight...
--- End quote ---
In that case the "hi-res" mode is done in the FPGA so a fix should be just firmware.
I wonder what the problem is, I find it hard to believe they don't know how to do it. The only thing I can think of is that they're low on space on the FPGA and there's multiple paths that all need to access hi-res data so the averaging needs to be implemented all over the place.
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