EEVblog® Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Sercan on March 14, 2024, 08:42:20 pm
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Hi Folk!
I am an electronics hobbyist. I prefer the devices I use at home lab to be the most up-to-date ones that fit within my budget. Even if not every feature is necessary when purchasing devices, as I develop my electronic skills, these features become useful to me.
Anyway, last year, I bought the Siglent SDS2140X Plus oscilloscope. All software features of this oscilloscope are active except for PA. Moreover, I can achieve 500 MHz with a hack.
It has only been a year since I purchased this device when Siglent introduced their new HD series. I am interested in the SDS3104X HD model from this series. It offers advantages such as 12-bit hardware resolution, double the real-time sampling rate, and double the memory depth. I won't be able to afford the software options initially, but I assume I can unlock these features with a hack in the future.
Regardless of the price, what benefits do you think I would gain from switching to the SDS3104X HD? I'm curious about your valuable opinions.
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By the way, here are the pages of related products.
https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sds2000xp
https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sds3000hd
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Sercan,
I think you are only one that can decide that.
I can see that you already seem to mostly know what differences "on paper" are.
My advice would be not to get "hang up" to comparing features.
There will be always some scope that "has more stuff" that the one you own.
By that logic, why not SDS7000A?
My way of thinking about these "dilemmas" of should I buy new shiny stuff is to rather think in terms of how "useful" they are to me. What does this mean?
For instance, is 500MHz Bw good enough for the stuff you do in your hobby, or you encountered (more than once !) situation when you needed 1GHz scope to finish your project?
Did you work on something where it was obvious that 12 bit scope would be needed to finish it?
If answer to those and similar questions is yes, then you would benefit from a new 12 bit 1GHz scope. Otherwise, nice as it is to have new shiny things, you won't be able to do stuff better despite spending the money.
That is rational thinking part discussion out of the way. If you simply like new toys and it makes you happy and you have money to spend, then it is again your decision.
As for technical comparison, SDS3000xHD is actually 2 clases above SDS2000X+. It is serious upgrade, and targeted at professional market with active probes etc.
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The happy medium, if you don't want to invest a lot of money, would be the 2000X HD.
I had no regrets about switching from the plus to the HD, even then there were clear advantages.
And the 2000X HD has become cheaper, it could possibly drop in price again.
EDIT:
Especially as there is a promo offer for the 2000X HD.
Buy SDS2000X HD options and the Siglent SPL2016 Logic Probes for a bundle price!
This bundle contains:
Siglent SDS2000HD-FG
Siglent SDS2000HD-16LA
Siglent SPL2016 Logic Probes
Siglent SDS-2000HD-CANFD
Siglent SDS-2000HD-FlexRay
Siglent SDS-2000HD-IIS
Siglent SDS-2000HD-1553B
Siglent SDS-2000HD-SENT
Siglent SDS-2000HD-Manch
For 279€.....
the logic probes alone cost just under 400€ separately....
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Hello,
There are still not many people who have a device from the SDS3000X HD family. In this family, the price difference between 350 MHz and 1 GHz is relatively small. My question here would be: Is it worth €3000 to me to have 1 GHz instead of 350 MHz?
I decided no and ordered an SDS3034X HD.
Best regards
egonotto
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It was almost the same for me, I was faced with the choice of either 350 or 500Mhz, now I'm waiting for 350Mhz...
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Hello,
one thing that could still happen here is that a hack will come at some point and then all devices can have 1 GHz.
Best regards
egonotto
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Sercan,
I think you are only one that can decide that.
I can see that you already seem to mostly know what differences "on paper" are.
My advice would be not to get "hang up" to comparing features.
There will be always some scope that "has more stuff" that the one you own.
By that logic, why not SDS7000A?
My way of thinking about these "dilemmas" of should I buy new shiny stuff is to rather think in terms of how "useful" they are to me. What does this mean?
For instance, is 500MHz Bw good enough for the stuff you do in your hobby, or you encountered (more than once !) situation when you needed 1GHz scope to finish your project?
Did you work on something where it was obvious that 12 bit scope would be needed to finish it?
If answer to those and similar questions is yes, then you would benefit from a new 12 bit 1GHz scope. Otherwise, nice as it is to have new shiny things, you won't be able to do stuff better despite spending the money.
That is rational thinking part discussion out of the way. If you simply like new toys and it makes you happy and you have money to spend, then it is again your decision.
As for technical comparison, SDS3000xHD is actually 2 clases above SDS2000X+. It is serious upgrade, and targeted at professional market with active probes etc.
2N3055,
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
"By that logic, why not SDS7000A?"
Yes, it's conceivable for me. I understand why you might think I enjoy purchasing shiny stuff. However, this isn't necessarily accurate in my case.
The reality is, since this is a hobby for me, there aren't really any constraints. I am not an electronics engineer focused on a specific subject. If I have enough money, I would indeed consider acquiring the SDS7000A. This is because I have an inquisitive nature, and there may be projects where I could leverage the functionalities offered by the 7000 series. My projects are somewhat vague, and as my knowledge level increases, the requirements of my projects also evolve. That's why I initiated this discussion in the forum.
"As for technical comparison, the SDS3000xHD is actually two classes above the SDS2000X+. It is a significant upgrade, targeting the professional market with active probes, etc."
I believe this sentence provides valuable insights for me. Thanks again!
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The happy medium, if you don't want to invest a lot of money, would be the 2000X HD.
I had no regrets about switching from the plus to the HD, even then there were clear advantages.
And the 2000X HD has become cheaper, it could possibly drop in price again.
EDIT:
Especially as there is a promo offer for the 2000X HD.
Buy SDS2000X HD options and the Siglent SPL2016 Logic Probes for a bundle price!
This bundle contains:
Siglent SDS2000HD-FG
Siglent SDS2000HD-16LA
Siglent SPL2016 Logic Probes
Siglent SDS-2000HD-CANFD
Siglent SDS-2000HD-FlexRay
Siglent SDS-2000HD-IIS
Siglent SDS-2000HD-1553B
Siglent SDS-2000HD-SENT
Siglent SDS-2000HD-Manch
For 279€.....
the logic probes alone cost just under 400€ separately....
I already buy logic probe when I bought SDS20104X Plus. In my case I just need to software option.
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Hello,
one thing that could still happen here is that a hack will come at some point and then all devices can have 1 GHz.
Best regards
egonotto
Egonotto, I hope so. ;)
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I already buy logic probe when I bought SDS20104X Plus. In my case I just need to software option.
No problem, buy the bundle for 279€, sell the probes for 279... 8)
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The reality is, since this is a hobby for me, there aren't really any constraints. I am not an electronics engineer focused on a specific subject. If I have enough money, I would indeed consider acquiring the SDS7000A. This is because I have an inquisitive nature, and there may be projects where I could leverage the functionalities offered by the 7000 series. My projects are somewhat vague, and as my knowledge level increases, the requirements of my projects also evolve. That's why I initiated this discussion in the forum.
This ^^^
Few ever consider their future needs as their knowledge and experience grows and I commend Sercan to think in this way. :clap:
SDS2000X Plus > SDS2000X HD is a worthy upgrade to the next level of performance and feature set which doesn't at first seem obvious other than to a 12bit platform.
Slightly smaller form factor.
Fan noise almost zero.
Full memory management capability.
SDS3000X HD I have yet to see so fan noise I cannot comment on however form factor and the memory management tools equal SDS2000X HD.
SDS3000X HD offers higher BW and active probe capabilities to support such.
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Sercan,
just to make sure I was not patronizing you. Quite the contrary, exactly how I said, if you think you need 4GHz BW then SDS7000A is what you should go for if you have that money and you think you need it.
As for comparison, if you have some specific question we can try to help.
Best.
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Further "proof" that I think prices for the 2000X HD range will, must, fall:
https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS2354X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS2354X-hd.html)
1000€ more than the larger model with the same bandwidth....This won't last. ;)
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The reality is, since this is a hobby for me, there aren't really any constraints. I am not an electronics engineer focused on a specific subject. If I have enough money, I would indeed consider acquiring the SDS7000A. This is because I have an inquisitive nature, and there may be projects where I could leverage the functionalities offered by the 7000 series. My projects are somewhat vague, and as my knowledge level increases, the requirements of my projects also evolve. That's why I initiated this discussion in the forum.
This ^^^
Few ever consider their future needs as their knowledge and experience grows and I commend Sercan to think in this way. :clap:
SDS2000X Plus > SDS2000X HD is a worthy upgrade to the next level of performance and feature set which doesn't at first seem obvious other than to a 12bit platform.
Slightly smaller form factor.
Fan noise almost zero.
Full memory management capability.
SDS3000X HD I have yet to see so fan noise I cannot comment on however form factor and the memory management tools equal SDS2000X HD.
SDS3000X HD offers higher BW and active probe capabilities to support such.
SDS2000xHD is practically completely silent at normal room temps. SDS3000xHD is slightly louder, you can hear it, but it is not loud, and it is very pleasant neutral pink noise with no distinctive tones.
Mind you, they are both variable speed, so even SDS2000xHD can be quite loud if ambient temp is 37 °C..
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Further "proof" that I think prices for the 2000X HD range will, must, fall:
https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS2354X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS2354X-hd.html)
1000€ more than the larger model with the same bandwidth....This won't last. ;)
Hello,
If the prices for an SDS2104X HD with the SDS2XHD-BND offer were to fall accordingly, I might become weak again. But that would be very very very unreasonable of me.
Best regards
egonotto
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Mind you, they are both variable speed, so even SDS2000xHD can be quite loud if ambient temp is 37 °C..
I like to believe that, after all, the fan is from Delta (in the 3000X HD too, by the way, albeit a different model) - they can really go off, we use this brand(and papst "of course") for our projects.
But if you have a Noctua fan installed in the 2000X HD like I did.....
You always think the Scope is dead. 8)
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just to make sure I was not patronizing you. Quite the contrary, exactly how I said, if you think you need 4GHz BW then SDS7000A is what you should go for if you have that money and you think you need it.
No problem at all, I didn't interpret your comments that way.
As for comparison, if you have some specific question we can try to help.
Regarding the product's specifications, there seems to be some confusion. For instance, while the website states that the FFT is 2 Mpts, certain documents indicate it's 4 Mpts.
I'm currently developing a mobile application that relies on FFT, and I occasionally use my signal generator and oscilloscope for verification purposes. Therefore, FFT resolution is also useful for me. Could you clarify which specification is accurate?
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On the other hand, it would have been helpful if there were some videos or information regarding the product's new features and box contents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsbTgiRRmew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsbTgiRRmew)
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Further "proof" that I think prices for the 2000X HD range will, must, fall:
https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS2354X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS2354X-hd.html)
1000€ more than the larger model with the same bandwidth....This won't last. ;)
Hello,
If the prices for an SDS2104X HD with the SDS2XHD-BND offer were to fall accordingly, I might become weak again. But that would be very very very unreasonable of me.
Best regards
egonotto
Repeat after me:
I don't need more scopes... :-DD
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SDS2000xHD is practically completely silent at normal room temps. SDS3000xHD is slightly louder, you can hear it, but it is not loud, and it is very pleasant neutral pink noise with no distinctive tones.
Mind you, they are both variable speed, so even SDS2000xHD can be quite loud if ambient temp is 37 °C..
:-//
Time to put away the scope and get out the beer ! :P
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just to make sure I was not patronizing you. Quite the contrary, exactly how I said, if you think you need 4GHz BW then SDS7000A is what you should go for if you have that money and you think you need it.
No problem at all, I didn't interpret your comments that way.
As for comparison, if you have some specific question we can try to help.
Regarding the product's specifications, there seems to be some confusion. For instance, while the website states that the FFT is 2 Mpts, certain documents indicate it's 4 Mpts.
I'm currently developing a mobile application that relies on FFT, and I occasionally use my signal generator and oscilloscope for verification purposes. Therefore, FFT resolution is also useful for me. Could you clarify which specification is accurate?
--
On the other hand, it would have been helpful if there were some videos or information regarding the product's new features and box contents.
On SDS3000xHD max FFT length is 4Mpts.
There is linear and log frequency axis.
FFT is quite fast.
ERES is up to 4, both as acquisition and math function.
It has faster WFMs/s than previous gen.
4 math channels.
It is very responsive to user input.
It has extended input voltage offset ranges.
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SDS2000xHD is practically completely silent at normal room temps. SDS3000xHD is slightly louder, you can hear it, but it is not loud, and it is very pleasant neutral pink noise with no distinctive tones.
Mind you, they are both variable speed, so even SDS2000xHD can be quite loud if ambient temp is 37 °C..
:-//
Time to put away the scope and get out the beer ! :P
Yes!
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Hello,
If the prices for an SDS2104X HD with the SDS2XHD-BND offer were to fall accordingly, I might become weak again. But that would be very very very unreasonable of me.
Nobody would buy a 350Mhz SDS2000X HD for 5000€ when they can get a SDS3034XHD for 4000€, so the price HAS to come down, at least that's what I think.
The difference between 2000X HD and 3000X HD is there, but (2N3055 can correct me) it shouldn't be as big as a change from 2000X plus to 2000X HD.
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Regardless of the price, what benefits do you think I would gain from switching to the SDS3104X HD? I'm curious about your valuable opinions.
What do you want to gain? the SDS3000X HD line looks very nice, but as far as functionality over the 2104X+ w/hacks it seems to me that the active probe connections, better UI (I'm assuming), somewhat lower front end noise w/ 12-bit ADC and increased BW (if you get that option) would be the main things you'd get. If you aren't looking to buy the specialized Siglent probes that use the specific connector provided--or LeCroy probes with an adapter--then I'm not sure what you'd get. With regular BNC connectors and passive probes, 500+ MHz seems to be enough scope for me. I'm pretty sure a fully hacked SDS2104X+ is more useful than a better scope that I can't afford the options on. I do use PA feature, for example. The things that I'll admit I'd like to have are the gated measurements, the additional trigger modes and the 4 math channels with ERES/average/etc back in the acquisition menu rather than using up a math channel. I assume the SDS2000X+ is that way because it is a bit short on processor power.
I'll note that the SDS3000X HD appears to have the same old 1024 x 600 screen and no direct video out. A 12" Full-HD screen and HDMI out would impress me more.
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If the prices for an SDS2104X HD with the SDS2XHD-BND offer were to fall accordingly, I might become weak again. But that would be very very very unreasonable of me.
There are SDS2000X HD price changes coming but not as you might think.
Best advice I can offer is to get SDS2104X HD if you are interested in this platform.....
No further comment. :-X
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Regardless of the price, what benefits do you think I would gain from switching to the SDS3104X HD? I'm curious about your valuable opinions.
What do you want to gain? the SDS3000X HD line looks very nice, but as far as functionality over the 2104X+ w/hacks it seems to me that the active probe connections, better UI (I'm assuming), somewhat lower front end noise w/ 12-bit ADC and increased BW (if you get that option) would be the main things you'd get. If you aren't looking to buy the specialized Siglent probes that use the specific connector provided--or LeCroy probes with an adapter--then I'm not sure what you'd get. With regular BNC connectors and passive probes, 500+ MHz seems to be enough scope for me. I'm pretty sure a fully hacked SDS2104X+ is more useful than a better scope that I can't afford the options on. I do use PA feature, for example. The things that I'll admit I'd like to have are the gated measurements, the additional trigger modes and the 4 math channels with ERES/average/etc back in the acquisition menu rather than using up a math channel. I assume the SDS2000X+ is that way because it is a bit short on processor power.
I'll note that the SDS3000X HD appears to have the same old 1024 x 600 screen and no direct video out. A 12" Full-HD screen and HDMI out would impress me more.
I keep repeating that math channels have formula mode. Using ERES and 3 other functions together on single math channels is what you do. ERES in math is not a problem. ERES in hardware is faster (real time) but also gets applied to all channels.
There is also not only gated measurements but new Analysis Gate function that goes one step further.
CPU is faster, network too. 4Mpts FFT.
There are many upgrades.
And you bring up the good point. If your current scope is fully kitted out and does the job, why change what works..
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Regardless of the price, what benefits do you think I would gain from switching to the SDS3104X HD? I'm curious about your valuable opinions.
What do you want to gain? the SDS3000X HD line looks very nice, but as far as functionality over the 2104X+ w/hacks it seems to me that the active probe connections, better UI (I'm assuming), somewhat lower front end noise w/ 12-bit ADC and increased BW (if you get that option) would be the main things you'd get. If you aren't looking to buy the specialized Siglent probes that use the specific connector provided--or LeCroy probes with an adapter--then I'm not sure what you'd get. With regular BNC connectors and passive probes, 500+ MHz seems to be enough scope for me. I'm pretty sure a fully hacked SDS2104X+ is more useful than a better scope that I can't afford the options on. I do use PA feature, for example. The things that I'll admit I'd like to have are the gated measurements, the additional trigger modes and the 4 math channels with ERES/average/etc back in the acquisition menu rather than using up a math channel. I assume the SDS2000X+ is that way because it is a bit short on processor power.
I'll note that the SDS3000X HD appears to have the same old 1024 x 600 screen and no direct video out. A 12" Full-HD screen and HDMI out would impress me more.
Actually, I don't have any specific expectations. I'm considering purchasing the SDS3000X HD and exploring its capabilities. I'm curious about what others think about this idea. Currently, I own three oscilloscopes, but I intend to sell them all to fund the purchase of the SDS3000X HD, as I find myself not using the SDS1104X-E much anymore.
I completely agree with you. The improved screen resolution would be a significant advantage for me too.
As you told "A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people." :-DD
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I'm considering purchasing the SDS3000X HD and exploring its capabilities. I'm curious about what others think about this idea. Currently, I own three oscilloscopes, but I intend to sell them all to fund the purchase of the SDS3000X HD, as I find myself not using the SDS1104X-E much anymore.
Another rabbit hole to explore but be prepared for it to be deep.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=641927;image)
We might lose member Sercan ...... :-DD
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Another rabbit hole to explore but be prepared for it to be deep.
We might lose member Sercan ...... :-DD
Yeah that's me! :-DD
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If the prices for an SDS2104X HD with the SDS2XHD-BND offer were to fall accordingly, I might become weak again. But that would be very very very unreasonable of me.
There are SDS2000X HD price changes coming but not as you might think.
Best advice I can offer is to get SDS2104X HD if you are interested in this platform.....
No further comment. :-X
My bet is that the 100MHz model will disappear.
Batterfly had it heavily discounted, and now it is not listed at all.
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Frankly, I think you are asking the wrong question. "Please give me some reasons to buy a new scope. (Again, less than a year after I got my current one.)" ::)
I would suggest that you focus on actually using your current equipment for a while. If you should run into resolution limitations (which the enhanced resolution mode in the X plus cannot work around), start thinking about a 12-bit scope. By the time you will also have learnt more about other features that are important to you, to guide your selection of a new scope.
EDIT: Oh, in case you cannot resist eventually: Get out the tape measure before you buy a 3000X HD (or a 2000 for that matter)! It's a bit taller than the X plus, and looking at the photo in your opening post, I am not sure it will fit into the current shelf space.
Okay, let's imagine you're a traveler with your car. Perhaps you already own a regular car. However, there's also the possibility of acquiring an F-segment car, such as a Mercedes S-Class or similar.
You can't fully exploit its speed potential on everyday streets. Nonetheless, on the German Autobahn (with no speed limit), you could unleash its capabilities, placing your trust in its performance.
In my situation, even though I'm not an F1 racer, I still enjoy the benefits of driving like any other driver, and I have complete confidence in the car's abilities, even at high speeds.
I am just a traveler with my car... 8)
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I guess it depends.
In a totally unrelated discussion about chainsaws, I once saw a comment that said "If your saw has never been too small, it is too big.". I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, an important part of the electronics hobby is playing with test gear. From that perspective, an upgrade can make sense, and I am certainly guilty of owning plenty of stuff I technically don't need.
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Frankly, I think you are asking the wrong question. "Please give me some reasons to buy a new scope. (Again, less than a year after I got my current one.)" ::)
I would suggest that you focus on actually using your current equipment for a while. If you should run into resolution limitations (which the enhanced resolution mode in the X plus cannot work around), start thinking about a 12-bit scope. By the time you will also have learnt more about other features that are important to you, to guide your selection of a new scope.
EDIT: Oh, in case you cannot resist eventually: Get out the tape measure before you buy a 3000X HD (or a 2000 for that matter)! It's a bit taller than the X plus, and looking at the photo in your opening post, I am not sure it will fit into the current shelf space.
Okay, let's imagine you're a traveler with your car. Perhaps you already own a regular car. However, there's also the possibility of acquiring an F-segment car, such as a Mercedes S-Class or similar.
You can't fully exploit its speed potential on everyday streets. Nonetheless, on the German Autobahn (with no speed limit), you could unleash its capabilities, placing your trust in its performance.
In my situation, even though I'm not an F1 racer, I still enjoy the benefits of driving like any other driver, and I have complete confidence in the car's abilities, even at high speeds.
I am just a traveler with my car... 8)
We are talking a bit about luxury then. I honestly think the 2000X-HD is the top hobbyist general purpose oscilloscope, it is already quite a "luxurious" tool, or way better than necessary but still nice to have.
To take full advantage of the 3000X-HD you need (pretty expensive) probing solutions. I don't think it is a good buy for someone whose budget is actually the oscilloscope's price.
That being said, there are hobbyists that buy professional stuff way over their needed level. IE, tens of thousands on road bicycles, festool track saws, fishing or hunting equipment, Hilti drills, handmade luthier instruments, etc. I, myself, have tools with capabilities way over my skill level on quite a few areas.
Still, I wouldn't go over the 2000X-HD, as it seems to me it would only be nicer, and not actually more useful, but that's just me, it's a decision only you can make.
EDIT: that's probably a bit of an arbitrary limit, but when a scope needs higher spending on accesories than on itself, it's out of the question, for me. But, as a matter of fact, many of us are spoiled, having everything necessary for living, all the tools needed for our jobs and, on top of all that, an additional fully featured workspace just for pleasure.
So the difference is quantitative. Qualitatively speaking, it's all luxury anyway. I just think setting oneself limits is actually quite healthy.
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I guess it depends.
In a totally unrelated discussion about chainsaws, I once saw a comment that said "If your saw has never been too small, it is too big.". I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, an important part of the electronics hobby is playing with test gear. From that perspective, an upgrade can make sense, and I am certainly guilty of owning plenty of stuff I technically don't need.
Yawns :=\
Just 3 main saws in my stable and they each shine in one way or another…….a bit like scopes. :P
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I guess it depends.
In a totally unrelated discussion about chainsaws, I once saw a comment that said "If your saw has never been too small, it is too big.". I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, an important part of the electronics hobby is playing with test gear. From that perspective, an upgrade can make sense, and I am certainly guilty of owning plenty of stuff I technically don't need.
Yawns :=\
Just 3 main saws in my stable and they each shine in one way or another…….a bit like scopes. :P
Yeah, the right tool for the job is a sound mindset. But the 800-3000X-HD series from Siglent are all subsets of each higher model, AFAIK, all general purpose, and each subsequent scope a strict upgrade over the previous one (unless the size of the 800 is a plus). So, unless the 3000X-HD is sluggish or less useable, the right tool for the job doesn't apply here.
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I have the SDS2504XP. It's capable of a lot more than I am. Would I still like a 3000X HD? Of course! I'd be more enthusiastic if it had full HD resolution (minimum), but I'm sure it's still a wonderful screen anyway. However, unless somebody dumps a bunch of money on my bench, I'll be sticking with the scope I have. 😉
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I guess it depends.
In a totally unrelated discussion about chainsaws, I once saw a comment that said "If your saw has never been too small, it is too big.". I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, an important part of the electronics hobby is playing with test gear. From that perspective, an upgrade can make sense, and I am certainly guilty of owning plenty of stuff I technically don't need.
Yawns :=\
Just 3 main saws in my stable and they each shine in one way or another…….a bit like scopes. :P
Yeah, the right tool for the job is a sound mindset.
It's the ONLY mindset as neither an underpowered scope or saw for that matter will allow tackling of some tasks.
It's not just about feature set but also raw BW/horsepower.
2 tools for my biggest tasks are SDS6204A and 3120XP !
SDS7000A, not current but the new higher BW models coming are on my radar.......
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I guess it depends.
In a totally unrelated discussion about chainsaws, I once saw a comment that said "If your saw has never been too small, it is too big.". I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, an important part of the electronics hobby is playing with test gear. From that perspective, an upgrade can make sense, and I am certainly guilty of owning plenty of stuff I technically don't need.
Yawns :=\
Just 3 main saws in my stable and they each shine in one way or another…….a bit like scopes. :P
Yeah, the right tool for the job is a sound mindset.
It's the ONLY mindset as neither an underpowered scope or saw for that matter will allow tackling of some tasks.
It's not just about feature set but also raw BW/horsepower.
2 tools for my biggest tasks are SDS6204A and 3120XP !
SDS7000A, not current but the new higher BW models coming are on my radar.......
None of those is being considered by the OP, and he wants to sell his SDS1104X-E, so doesn't seem to need a second oscilloscope.
He is quite obviously talking about a general purpose scope well enough suited for most jobs. My point is that, under the 3000X-HD, which he is considering, there is no better 'scope for any job in Siglent's lineup. And, over the 3000X-HD there is no relevant scope for the OP, as the budget doesn't allow it.
So, yeah, there is another middle of the road mindset. The right tool for the job, in this case, is the best tool for most jobs, at certain price.
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My point is that, under the 3000X-HD, which he is considering, there is no better 'scope for any job in Siglent's lineup.
That's assuming he can also afford all of the relevant options and upgrades that he has on his lesser model. If not, then a lesser but hackable model might be the better option.
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What makes you think it can't be improved?
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My point is that, under the 3000X-HD, which he is considering, there is no better 'scope for any job in Siglent's lineup.
That's assuming he can also afford all of the relevant options and upgrades that he has on his lesser model. If not, then a lesser but hackable model might be the better option.
That is true. If he doesn't get to improve the 2000HD or the 3000HD, the 2000X plus will have more bandwidth.
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SDS7000A, not current but the new higher BW models coming are on my radar.......
Cool !
Anyway, here in the EU, lead time on the SDS7000 8-bit version are so long (example => https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS7000A.html (https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS7000A.html) )
that, to me, it means : no buyers...
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I'm pretty sure a fully hacked SDS2104X+ is more useful than a better scope that I can't afford the options on. I do use PA feature, for example. The things that I'll admit I'd like to have are the gated measurements, the additional trigger modes and the 4 math channels with ERES/average/etc back in the acquisition menu rather than using up a math channel. I assume the SDS2000X+ is that way because it is a bit short on processor power.
I swear the SDS2000X+ has gated measurements. I've used the feature before, at least when the scope is stopped. If I'm thinking of the right thing, it lets you set the start and end times of an interval over which the measurement is computed. It's in section 18.9 of the manual stored on my computer locally (maybe not the latest version). Excellent feature, by the way. I was so happy when I discovered it.
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SDS7000A, not current but the new higher BW models coming are on my radar.......
Cool !
Anyway, here in the EU, lead time on the SDS7000 8-bit version are so long (example => https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS7000A.html (https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS7000A.html) )
that, to me, it means : no buyers...
Cough....
SDS7000A: Bandwidth up to 4 GHz, 12-bit ADC resolution
However this is what I'm watching:
https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds7000a/ (https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds7000a/)
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Hi folks (& Sercan but I think you won't like this post)
here is my "different" feedback vs an alternative to a Siglent 2K+ hacked scope (given that I guess any 2k+ scope are full options & 500MHz BW, like mine...)
back to Sercan weird question about : which scope can beat my already "old" SDS2504XPlus scope ?
So far, Sercan did not explain what are his needs etc but have a high budget : so, he's a jerk. (if I'm wrong, Sercan, explain your work & I apologize, of course)
Back to the topic :
A few weeks ago, I was in the same cogniive brain fog : "I need a more precise "time-domain" "analyzer", so : what's better than my Siglent 2k+ ?
My basic question here was : to trigger higher speed signals.
then,
the anwser is all over the place, whatever the seller => more BW = price surges like hell vs GHz BW (given that I have in mind only => "rise time", liked to "BW"
I suppposed that if someone is looking for more "GHz BW for bucks", he's dealing with "high speed" signal
=> the right answer is :
- I keep my 2k+
- I buy the GigaWave sampling scope (only 3kEur)
as simple & "cheap" as that...
unless I missed smth...
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I don't think Sercan is a jerk. It seems like he's tempted by a shiny new scope that just came out. It is tempting... more bandwidth and more resolution and the price is high but not insanely high.
My take on this is that it you don't lose anything by waiting. If the equipment you have now meets your needs, keep using it. You can always buy the SDS3000X HD later. By that time, more reviews will be available, and maybe more of the bugs will be fixed. These things always have bugs when first released.
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Hi folks (& Sercan but I think you won't like this post)
here is my "different" feedback vs an alternative to a Siglent 2K+ hacked scope (given that I guess any 2k+ scope are full options & 500MHz BW, like mine...)
back to Sercan weird question about : which scope can beat my already "old" SDS2504XPlus scope ?
So far, Sercan did not explain what are his needs etc but have a high budget : so, he's a jerk. (if I'm wrong, Sercan, explain your work & I apologize, of course)
Back to the topic :
A few weeks ago, I was in the same cogniive brain fog : "I need a more precise "time-domain" "analyzer", so : what's better than my Siglent 2k+ ?
My basic question here was : to trigger higher speed signals.
then,
the anwser is all over the place, whatever the seller => more BW = price surges like hell vs GHz BW (given that I have in mind only => "rise time", liked to "BW"
I suppposed that if someone is looking for more "GHz BW for bucks", he's dealing with "high speed" signal
=> the right answer is :
- I keep my 2k+
- I buy the GigaWave sampling scope (only 3kEur)
as simple & "cheap" as that...
unless I missed smth...
You missed manners. Why calling a jerk a person that did nothing wrong to you, ever. You don't even know him...
Also he did not insult anybody. He does not have to explain his personal decisions about his life or justify anything to you or me or anybody. And you do have to apologize, for your manner.
To make note, I also think about equipment (and all material stuff in life in general) in terms of usability and like to be rational about it.
In my first post, I respectfully (I hope) tried to say to OP that it is lots of money and tried to help him be "more reasonable" (according to my world view!).
After he explained his "world view" all I could do was wish him good luck and try to help with technical questions.
Like someone said above, I personally don't understand people that buy houses with 8 rooms they will never use, 17 hand made guitars that cost more than a house but rarely play them, buy 100000 € cars to go buy groceries with it.....
But only because I'm like that and I don't understand people that are different than me, that doesn't mean I get to tell them how to live their life. Or call them names.
I have a neighbor that seems to "collect" expensive cars. I'm sure most of his home budget goes to that. I would never do that, but if that makes him happy.. It is his life.
It's nice to be nice. Live and let live.
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Minus 2 points for name calling.
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That's assuming he can also afford all of the relevant options and upgrades that he has on his lesser model. If not, then a lesser but hackable model might be the better option.
That's a good point.
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Hi folks (& Sercan but I think you won't like this post)
here is my "different" feedback vs an alternative to a Siglent 2K+ hacked scope (given that I guess any 2k+ scope are full options & 500MHz BW, like mine...)
back to Sercan weird question about : which scope can beat my already "old" SDS2504XPlus scope ?
So far, Sercan did not explain what are his needs etc but have a high budget : so, he's a jerk. (if I'm wrong, Sercan, explain your work & I apologize, of course)
Wow! Looks like we've got an Einstein among us.
If you can label people like me as a "jerk," you must possess the intelligence and ethic to do so.
I suppose by stating your opinion in this manner, are you expecting our submission to you like the sun god Ra? I didn't quite get where you're going with this definition.
Anyway, I don't need your apologies as your definitions... :o
Back to the topic :
A few weeks ago, I was in the same cogniive brain fog : "I need a more precise "time-domain" "analyzer", so : what's better than my Siglent 2k+ ?
My basic question here was : to trigger higher speed signals.
then,
the anwser is all over the place, whatever the seller => more BW = price surges like hell vs GHz BW (given that I have in mind only => "rise time", liked to "BW"
I suppposed that if someone is looking for more "GHz BW for bucks", he's dealing with "high speed" signal
=> the right answer is :
- I keep my 2k+
- I buy the GigaWave sampling scope (only 3kEur)
as simple & "cheap" as that...
unless I missed smth...
I'm not a professional. 12-bit high resolution will help me capture fine details. Since I'm not an pro, I prefer not to be misled by the values I see on my measuring device. After all, it's just a "tool" to assist me. I am just looking for better "tool". I have many reason, but isn't only 12 bits reason enough?
I wish I were rich, but I'm not. Nevertheless, I haven't seen anyone become richer or poorer by saving on the price difference we're talking about here. I simply don't care about extra spending $200-300 annually for a device I can use for the next 5 or more years. That's why I mentioned it in the first message:
Regardless of the price, what benefits do you think I would gain from switching to the SDS3104X HD? I'm curious about your valuable opinions.
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I'm not a professional. 12-bit high resolution will help me capture fine details. Since I'm not an pro, I prefer not to be misled by the values I see on my measuring device. After all, it's just a "tool" to assist me. I am just looking for better "tool". I have many reason, but isn't only 12 bits reason enough?
Maybe, maybe not. How often do you use the 10-bit mode on your present SDS2000X+? And when you compare it to the 8-bit mode, do you think "gee that's a lot better but I'd be willing to pay a lot more for further improvement"? If so, 12-bit is definitely for you. If you don't use the 10-bit mode or can't tell the difference clearly enough to matter, then 12-bit won't change your life. For me, given the limited resolution of the screen itself (which is the same on both scopes) the place where more bits matters enough for me to care is when I'm using the vertical zoom feature to look at something. Do you use vertical zoom?
I wish I were rich, but I'm not. Nevertheless, I haven't seen anyone become richer or poorer by saving on the price difference we're talking about here.
Perhaps on one instrument, but if you apply that same thinking to the rest of your bench and end up with a few more digits on your DMM, better specs on your AWG, etc etc you might end up with a substantial "investment".
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I swear the SDS2000X+ has gated measurements. I've used the feature before, at least when the scope is stopped. If I'm thinking of the right thing, it lets you set the start and end times of an interval over which the measurement is computed.
It gets even better:
For example, all lecroy scopes have gated meauserements.
You set one point, then the other and measurements are taken in between - awesome.
Then the old ones had a feature that is no longer available on the Lecroy - but the SDS2000Xplus has it, and that's why we have 6 of them...
As mentioned, you can create a gate and measure in it, old Lecroys and the Siglents also allow you to move this defined gate anywhere on the screen...
Very useful for (alternating current) load steps...
We use it to measure the recovery time, i.e. when the voltage returns to the tolerated range.
Therefore:
No movable measurement gate, no scope for us. ;)
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My bet is that the 100MHz model will disappear.
Batterfly had it heavily discounted, and now it is not listed at all.
That's right, it's gone and the prices for the 200 and 350Mhz versions have dropped significantly again...
so at Batterfly, at Batronix or Welectron you don't see anything.
Not yet, I suppose.
(picture: all prices without VAT)
(Batronix and Welectron still have the 2104X HD on stock, maybe it´s worth asking for a "very special offer"...)
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Maybe, maybe not. How often do you use the 10-bit mode on your present SDS2000X+? And when you compare it to the 8-bit mode, do you think "gee that's a lot better but I'd be willing to pay a lot more for further improvement"? If so, 12-bit is definitely for you. If you don't use the 10-bit mode or can't tell the difference clearly enough to matter, then 12-bit won't change your life. For me, given the limited resolution of the screen itself (which is the same on both scopes) the place where more bits matters enough for me to care is when I'm using the vertical zoom feature to look at something. Do you use vertical zoom?
12-bit oscilloscope offers higher resolution, a wider dynamic range, better signal fidelity, and a lower noise floor compared to an 8-bit oscilloscope. These advantages make it suitable for applications requiring precise measurements and analysis of signals, especially when dealing with small signal amplitudes or capturing fine details in waveforms. However, I agree with you that for many general-purpose applications, an 8-bit oscilloscope may suffice and be more cost-effective.
Perhaps on one instrument, but if you apply that same thinking to the rest of your bench and end up with a few more digits on your DMM, better specs on your AWG, etc etc you might end up with a substantial "investment".
I don't want to focus solely on the financial aspect, but I believe it's important to mention that the device in question would cost me around $1K.
To elaborate, I have already sold my Siglent SDS1104X-E for $500 and finalized a $200 deal with a buyer for my Tektronix 2430A, which has only one working channel. Additionally, I intend to sell my SDS2104X Plus for minimum $1,250. Altogether, create total budget of around $2K from these three devices. With the potential tax advantages, I would only need to pay around $1,000...
Perhaps the question becomes clearer: "Is it worth investing $1,000 for the new features?"
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I have identified two important points so far:
Firstly, device is new, so, I may encounter potential hardware issues.
Secondly, I will be deprived of features like LA, which I frequently use, as I cannot hack it for now. This is significant to me because software options are beyond my budget...
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Or get the SDS804X HD as a stopgap until it's clearer to you if a 2k or 3k HD will be worth it to you.
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Or get the SDS804X HD as a stopgap until it's clearer to you if a 2k or 3k HD will be worth it to you.
I have SPL2016. This only fit SDS3000X HD, not for SDS800X HD or SDS1000X HD.
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I have identified two important points so far:
Firstly, device is new, so, I may encounter potential hardware issues.
Secondly, I will be deprived of features like LA, which I frequently use, as I cannot hack it for now. This is significant to me because software options are beyond my budget...
As an electronics hardware engineer, I would like to point out that the issues on new devices are often firmware issues rather than hardware issues ;)
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I don't want to focus solely on the financial aspect, but I believe it's important to mention that the device in question would cost me around $1K.
To elaborate, I have already sold my Siglent SDS1104X-E for $500 and finalized a $200 deal with a buyer for my Tektronix 2430A, which has only one working channel. Additionally, I intend to sell my SDS2104X Plus for minimum $1,250. Altogether, create total budget of around $2K from these three devices. With the potential tax advantages, I would only need to pay around $1,000...
Perhaps the question becomes clearer: "Is it worth investing $1,000 for the new features?"
Completely out of curiosity: I couldn't see a SDS3014X HD model among the recent offerings, only SDS3104X HD. If so, it has a retail price of 6k EUR before tax from various vendors in EU. What sort of a potential tax advantage brings the price down from 6k EUR to $1k with $2k in hand?
The cheapest offering in this category is SDS3034X HD and it retails for 3.4k EUR before tax (EU retailers price; probably will be much more expensive in Turkey due to various taxes), so I am not sure how the calculation works out to $1k final expenditure in this case, either.
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Or get the SDS804X HD as a stopgap until it's clearer to you if a 2k or 3k HD will be worth it to you.
I have SPL2016. This only fit SDS3000X HD, not for SDS800X HD or SDS1000X HD.
Yes, but you could keep the 2000X+ and still have high bandwidth and a higher class instrument, combined with 12 bits at lower frequencies.
In any case, and until prices are updated one way or another, the 2354X-HD is now more expensive in most stores than the 3034X-HD. If you were to upgrade to the 2000X-HD, an e-mail to the retailers would be in order to check for a discount over the list price. Right now batterfly prices are way lower than any other retailer in the EU (for the 2000X-HD). The 2204 is €400 lower than the 2104 at Batronix or Welectron.
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In any case, and until prices are updated one way or another, the 2354X-HD is now more expensive in most stores than the 3034X-HD. If you were to upgrade to the 2000X-HD, an e-mail to the retailers would be in order to check for a discount over the list price. Right now batterfly prices are way lower than any other retailer in the EU (for the 2000X-HD). The 2204 is €400 lower than the 2104 at Batronix or Welectron.
The rollout of the new HD scopes is a bit of a bumpy ride. I understand that Siglent may face supply issues beyond their control, hence struggles to supply the new scopes to all their distributors. But why cant they get the distributors to roll out the new prices consistently?!
Might it be the case that Batronix and Welectron are still sitting on stock of the 2000X HD which they bought at the higher prices -- while Batterfly managed to sell these units off in time, and is already selling a new batch bought from Siglent at the lower price? I hope not; it would seem like a bad idea if Siglent "punishes" distributors for keeping local stock. Hopefully distributors would receive a credit towards the difference between the higher price they paid and the new price?
Maybe it isn't Siglent's doing, and the dealers are trying to get the most revenue possible out of their stock, taking advantage of the fact that new devices might not be available for a couple months still.
But yeah, either that, or Batterfly is being extremely agressive price-wise.
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But yeah, either that, or Batterfly is being extremely agressive price-wise.
Batterfly has very decent prices on average, and free shipping above a certain amount (IIRC, 100€ for Italy, 400 € rest of EU)
I have enjoyed really good customer service from them.
Another shop to check is EleShop. They have a 'lowest price guarantee' and, by recent (last week) personl experience, they'll make good on that no question asked (some preconditions apply).
It was, in fact, wrt to a Batterfly price, which did not have stock available.
No affiliation with either, just a happy customer.
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Maybe it isn't Siglent's doing, and the dealers are trying to get the most revenue possible out of their stock, taking advantage of the fact that new devices might not be available for a couple months still.
But yeah, either that, or Batterfly is being extremely aggressive price-wise.
The reality is price reductions are for new stock not stock on hand previously sourced at higher prices.
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Maybe it isn't Siglent's doing, and the dealers are trying to get the most revenue possible out of their stock, taking advantage of the fact that new devices might not be available for a couple months still.
But yeah, either that, or Batterfly is being extremely aggressive price-wise.
The reality is price reductions are for new stock not stock on hand previously sourced at higher prices.
Then it probably was agressive pricing. They had quite a few 2000X-HD in stock on february, I doubt it was all new.
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The reality is price reductions are for new stock not stock on hand previously sourced at higher prices.
Ouch, that can get nasty for the dealers then. So what do you do when you are still sitting on old, expensive inventory when Siglent lowers the prices? Hope to find some not-so-well-informed buyers at the old price, or accept a loss and sell at the new lower price, or sit on that inventory forever since customers buy for the lower price elsewhere.
Batterfly is out of stock on the whole SDS2000X HD series, so they can happily offer the new reduced price. Batronix has most models in stock, presumably still bought at the old price -- tough luck for them, it seems?
You get wise not to order too much stock.....
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The reality is price reductions are for new stock not stock on hand previously sourced at higher prices.
Ouch, that can get nasty for the dealers then. So what do you do when you are still sitting on old, expensive inventory when Siglent lowers the prices? Hope to find some not-so-well-informed buyers at the old price, or accept a loss and sell at the new lower price, or sit on that inventory forever since customers buy for the lower price elsewhere.
Batterfly is out of stock on the whole SDS2000X HD series, so they can happily offer the new reduced price. Batronix has most models in stock, presumably still bought at the old price -- tough luck for them, it seems?
I suppose they put the new price before anyone else, to liquidate old stock while getting a few more customers to backorder with the reduced MSRP and cut the losses.
I don't think it's as "risky" a play as it could seem, as almost everyone checks pricing online on various vendors, or buys big from the manufacturer itself.
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Regardless of the price, what benefits do you think I would gain from switching to the SDS3104X HD? I'm curious about your valuable opinions.
A higher bandwidth scope won't provide any benefit if you plan on using standard passive probes. You can find passive probes rated up to 500MHz, but the capacitive loading at those frequencies will be too high for practical measurements above 100-200MHz.
Jumping to a 12-bit, low-noise oscilloscope produces noticeably cleaner measurements. It's hard to go back once you've been using a 12-bit scope. However, you don't need to jump all the way to the SDS3xxx series for 12-bit.
If you really want to make the most of the more expensive, high bandwidth scopes, you really need to consider probing accessories as well. Siglent has some interesting active probes starting at $1K, which is relatively inexpensive. However, I wouldn't recommend buying probes (or even a high BW oscilloscope) until you encounter a project that requires high frequency and expensive probing. It's too easy to guess wrong about future needs and find yourself in a situation where you need to sell it all and upgrade again to a system that matches your actual needs.