Products > Test Equipment
Siglent - 11/20 - New SDS1104X-U, 4 channel 100MHz, 1Gsa/s economy oscilloscope
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rf-loop:

--- Quote from: 2N3055 on November 29, 2020, 10:47:05 am ---

Lets just ask few questions about new SDS1104X-U to Siglent experts. I don't have the scope so cannot test myself.
I am not expert but I still answer.

1. What can you do with segment/history frames. (Rigol cannot do any of this)
    -Can you play them back with persistence to get envelope of all captured frames ?

--- End quote ---

Yes and no. It can automatic playback backward and forward direction with selected speed and when speed is enough fast it also produce intensity gradation.
During playback it works like DPO. But it is not just as fast even if turn playback as fast as possible.
There can use intensity or color gradation and select what interpolation use or not at all.
It do not have settable overlay stack for sequential acqusitions so that it can overlay (stack) all segments in history to one screen. (This feature what have some user settable parameters is wished from Siglent. Looks like it is not in highest priority level in to do list)
As far as I know in fast sequence mode when sequence is ready it leave all segments stacked (overlay) on screen until user do his next selection or if it is in continuous mode it start new sequence. Least in X-E  models and afaik this works mostly like X-E.



--- Quote ---    -Can you decode from them ?
--- End quote ---

Independent of if they are from normal acquisition history or after fast segment acquisition in history buffer these can decode.
It means that you can trig separate messages and even if period is slow these can capture to history buffer just as they exist and then afterwards individual acquisitions can decode. All what are in history buffer have full data just as in normal acquisition memory. (Added with relative time stamp. There is not RTC).


--- Quote ---    -Can you enable measurements on history frames ?
--- End quote ---

Of course, fully and with full resolution. Including also FFT and math.



--- Quote ---2. Does it have Measurement trend (Rigol has that)
--- End quote ---

No.  Only normal statistics.



--- Quote ---3. Does it have CAN/LIN (Rigol doesn't)
--- End quote ---

Yes it have, just all what also X-E model have including 2 separate decoder (fullduplex).


--- Quote ---4. Does it measure over full captured data (Rigol doesn't)
--- End quote ---

Yes and with full resolution including also waveform history buffer.
In this place I will also add that all interpolations are fully post processed and can always change afterwards including history or stopped scope. All is based to full raw ADC data in memory, in runtime and afterwards in acquistion normal memory and in history memory.


--- Quote ---5. Does it has better/faster msk test. Those are very useful sometimes.
--- End quote ---

It have hardware based full speed mask test and test result do not affect speed. What is current normal wfm/s speed is also mask test speed and it do not affect wfm/s speed. Also mask test signal output (pass/fail) is full speed.



--- Quote ---6. Does it have detected peaks table in FFT? Is it sortable? (Rigol doesn't have it)
--- End quote ---

Yes. 10 automatic peak markers. Is it sortable? I do not know what parameters user can give for search peaks or arrange order  in table.


--- Quote ---7. Does it have search function? What can it do? (Rigol has none)
--- End quote ---

Yes, some search. I think it is best to read from User Manual. Not easy told by ten words.
But can not example search decode result data.



--- Quote ---8. Is 1mV/div real analog range. (Rigol has 1mV/div by zooming in software from 5mV/div)
--- End quote ---

Yes, afaik.


--- Quote ---9. Does it have color grading display? (It seems to does, Rigol doesn't)
--- End quote ---

Yes of course.
Most normal things are just same as in X-E models. Even User manual is same.

Dropped things are all Optionals.  500uV/div. Web server. BodePlot. 1ns/div time scale. Now minimum is 2ns/div. Other USB port dropped from back side.
 
Reduced things are Double ADC Double memory is now single ADC single memory. Now it is 1/2/3+4Ch in use 1GSa/500MSa/250Msa/s and memory goes 14/7/3,5M.
FFT memory length reduced. It is 1/8 from E-X model. Max is now 131072pts (128k). Other ways FFT works same.
History, fast sequence, measurements, decode, intensity and color grade all same. Also wfm speed same and so on.


Elasia:

--- Quote from: 2N3055 on November 29, 2020, 10:47:05 am ---
--- Quote from: ballen on November 29, 2020, 07:06:50 am ---It's clear to me.  This scope is designed to compete apples to apples with the Rigol 1054Z.  It has effectively the same price and feature set.  The Rigol has one ADC, this has one.  The Rigol does not have 500uV/division, neither does this.  The Rigol has no integrated web server, neither does this.  And so on.

--- End quote ---

Lets just ask few questions about new SDS1104X-U to Siglent experts. I don't have the scope so cannot test myself.

1. What can you do with segment/history frames. (Rigol cannot do any of this)
    -Can you play them back with persistence to get envelope of all captured frames ?
    -Can you decode from them ?
    -Can you enable measurements on history frames ?
2. Does it have Measurement trend (Rigol has that)
3. Does it have CAN/LIN (Rigol doesn't)
4. Does it measure over full captured data (Rigol doesn't)
5. Does it has better/faster msk test. Those are very useful sometimes.
6. Does it have detected peaks table in FFT? Is it sortable? (Rigol doesn't have it)
7. Does it have search function? What can it do? (Rigol has none)
8. Is 1mV/div real analog range. (Rigol has 1mV/div by zooming in software from 5mV/div)
9. Does it have color grading display? (It seems to does, Rigol doesn't)


Potentially there is quite some difference. Also, for those who care, Siglent is more responsive to user input.

--- End quote ---

Considering what they did to strip the board to make this, its harder to guess at how well it will preform vs its mother without open reviews posted but does have a good bit the rigol doesnt.  That said i dont think this was made directly at rigol either... they have been in that segment for ages now.  It's both a platform round out and also like tau said to put a 100M marker at 4ch/400 without being hacked.  That said i'd think rigol would be coming out with something new sooner or later that would smoke it because its not rigol but gwinstek who actually has the better offering than rigol and this new siglent if hacked and dont forget both the rigol and gwinstek platforms are over FIVE years old now.... all they need to do is refresh their bargain scopes and it will push this one out.  Both of them have not had much reason to release something till now so siglent pushing this item is a good thing to give them a kick in the pants as the 100M mark will eat into their higher cost 100s.. gw's is some 600+

I'd be more interested in a comparison against gwinstek GDS-1000B that has a lot of what the siglent does

https://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/downloadSeriesDownNew/1738/130
Fungus:

--- Quote from: Elasia on November 29, 2020, 12:47:45 pm ---all they need to do is refresh their bargain scopes and it will push this one out.

--- End quote ---

As I said earlier: Rigol will definitely have to respond to this, even if it's only a price cut.

(although I still think it will eat at least as many sales of Siglent SDS1000X-E as it will of Rigol's DS1054Z)

In the end though, we all win.
nctnico:

--- Quote from: Elasia on November 29, 2020, 12:47:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on November 29, 2020, 10:47:05 am ---
--- Quote from: ballen on November 29, 2020, 07:06:50 am ---It's clear to me.  This scope is designed to compete apples to apples with the Rigol 1054Z.  It has effectively the same price and feature set.  The Rigol has one ADC, this has one.  The Rigol does not have 500uV/division, neither does this.  The Rigol has no integrated web server, neither does this.  And so on.

--- End quote ---

Lets just ask few questions about new SDS1104X-U to Siglent experts. I don't have the scope so cannot test myself.

1. What can you do with segment/history frames. (Rigol cannot do any of this)
    -Can you play them back with persistence to get envelope of all captured frames ?
    -Can you decode from them ?
    -Can you enable measurements on history frames ?
2. Does it have Measurement trend (Rigol has that)
3. Does it have CAN/LIN (Rigol doesn't)
4. Does it measure over full captured data (Rigol doesn't)
5. Does it has better/faster msk test. Those are very useful sometimes.
6. Does it have detected peaks table in FFT? Is it sortable? (Rigol doesn't have it)
7. Does it have search function? What can it do? (Rigol has none)
8. Is 1mV/div real analog range. (Rigol has 1mV/div by zooming in software from 5mV/div)
9. Does it have color grading display? (It seems to does, Rigol doesn't)


Potentially there is quite some difference. Also, for those who care, Siglent is more responsive to user input.

--- End quote ---

Considering what they did to strip the board to make this, its harder to guess at how well it will preform vs its mother without open reviews posted but does have a good bit the rigol doesnt.  That said i dont think this was made directly at rigol either... they have been in that segment for ages now.  It's both a platform round out and also like tau said to put a 100M marker at 4ch/400 without being hacked.  That said i'd think rigol would be coming out with something new sooner or later that would smoke it because its not rigol but gwinstek who actually has the better offering than rigol and this new siglent if hacked and dont forget both the rigol and gwinstek platforms are over FIVE years old now.... all they need to do is refresh their bargain
I'd be more interested in a comparison against gwinstek GDS-1000B that has a lot of what the siglent does

https://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/downloadSeriesDownNew/1738/130

--- End quote ---
This Siglent U scope runs the same platform as the GW Instek GDS-1054B and if you open them up you'll likely find exactly the same parts. The Siglent U is just a stripped down version of an existing design. The difference is that GW Instek did this earlier on.

When hacked the GDS-1054B gives you a scope which (compared to the Siglent U) has lower waveform rate but more memory per channel (10Mpts / 20Mpts in segmented mode), free form math, input signal filtering, better memory management (if you tell it to use 1Mpts it will use 1Mpts), 1Mpts FFT (with search and markers) and last but not least individual channel controls. And there are other neat things GW Instek has like being able to mount a Windows file share to dump data onto a computer directly over the network.
rf-loop:

--- Quote from: Elasia on November 29, 2020, 12:47:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on November 29, 2020, 10:47:05 am ---
--- Quote from: ballen on November 29, 2020, 07:06:50 am ---It's clear to me.  This scope is designed to compete apples to apples with the Rigol 1054Z.  It has effectively the same price and feature set.  The Rigol has one ADC, this has one.  The Rigol does not have 500uV/division, neither does this.  The Rigol has no integrated web server, neither does this.  And so on.

--- End quote ---

Lets just ask few questions about new SDS1104X-U to Siglent experts. I don't have the scope so cannot test myself.

1. What can you do with segment/history frames. (Rigol cannot do any of this)
    -Can you play them back with persistence to get envelope of all captured frames ?
    -Can you decode from them ?
    -Can you enable measurements on history frames ?
2. Does it have Measurement trend (Rigol has that)
3. Does it have CAN/LIN (Rigol doesn't)
4. Does it measure over full captured data (Rigol doesn't)
5. Does it has better/faster msk test. Those are very useful sometimes.
6. Does it have detected peaks table in FFT? Is it sortable? (Rigol doesn't have it)
7. Does it have search function? What can it do? (Rigol has none)
8. Is 1mV/div real analog range. (Rigol has 1mV/div by zooming in software from 5mV/div)
9. Does it have color grading display? (It seems to does, Rigol doesn't)
Potentially there is quite some difference. Also, for those who care, Siglent is more responsive to user input.

--- End quote ---

Considering what they did to strip the board to make this, its harder to guess at how well it will preform vs its mother without open reviews posted but does have a good bit the rigol doesnt.  That said i dont think this was made directly at rigol either... they have been in that segment for ages now.

--- End quote ---

Imho, it is NOT made for competite with Rigol DS1000Z. There is no single reason today for compete with it. There is markets for both and also it need remember 1kZ is today least partially obsolete so why compete with already obsolete instrument.
There is markets  for this Siglent (and many others, just as many company do shoes and trousers and one like this and other like that and all sell) and it is made for answer this demand... not vice versa direction. It need carefully understand that markets in some western countries is not all markets.  There is lot of crowing areas in world and there is growing demand. They do not all anymore all drool after Ks or Tek when more can get with less. Example RCEP is not nonsense and it also affect. Asia-Pacific countries form world's largest trading bloc. And just now.
Bit biased but... CGTN: China-ASEAN Expo in Nanning - A new center for the world's economy.

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