Siglent - 11/20 - New SDS1104X-U, 4 channel 100MHz, 1Gsa/s economy oscilloscope

[Elasia]

Edit: Now with comparison pics, thanks Dave!

SDS1104X-U
$399.00

100 MHz bandwidth
Real-time sampling rate up to 1 GSa/s
Record length up to 14 Mpts
Serial bus triggering and decoder supports protocols I2C, SPI, UART, CAN, LIN
Advanced measurements on full memory (14 Mpts)
Large 7-inch TFT-LCD display with 800 * 480 resolution

SIGLENT’s SDS1000X-U Series Super Phosphor Oscilloscopes is available in one bandwidth, 100 MHz. It has a maximum sample rate of 1 GSa/s and a maximum record length of 14 Mpts. For ease of use, the most commonly used functions can be accessed with its user-friendly front panel design.

The SDS1000X-U series employs a new generation of SPO (Super Phosphor Oscilloscope) technology that provides excellent signal fidelity and performance. It comes with an innovative digital trigger system with high sensitivity and low jitter, and a waveform capture rate of 400,000 frames/sec (sequence mode). The SDS1000X U also employs a 256 level intensity grading display function and a color temperature display mode not found in other models in this class.

 










Link to new scope

https://siglentna.com/product/sds1104x-u/


Discuss!

Rather interesting offering... not sure what to think of it vs the E yet

[Elasia]

After looking it over it seems more or less 100 bucks less for losing the accessory port.. which frankly the ones for it never excited me anyway

I suspect this very well could be enabled to 200 MHz but as its a board spin maybe not... wont be till someone gets one and gives it go that we will know

Edit.. on second thought they could have just depopd it and its just a bom rev

[Fungus]

After looking it over it seems more or less 100 bucks less for losing the accessory port.. which frankly the ones for it never excited me anyway

They cut a lot of other features, too. Reduced FFT size, reduced sample memory, less ADCs... and who knows what else?

I suspect this very well could be enabled to 200 MHz but as its a board spin maybe not... wont be till someone gets one and gives it go that we will know

a) That's just a guess.
b) You really don't want want 200Mhz bandwidth on a 4-channel scope with 1Ghz sample rate. It breaks Nyquist.

[tautech]

After looking it over it seems more or less 100 bucks less for losing the accessory port.. which frankly the ones for it never excited me anyway

I suspect this very well could be enabled to 200 MHz but as its a board spin maybe not... wont be till someone gets one and gives it go that we will know

Edit.. on second thought they could have just depopd it and its just a bom rev

No, it needs be a new PCB as the signal path has changed to allow a single ADC to process all 4 channels.

[Elasia]

After looking it over it seems more or less 100 bucks less for losing the accessory port.. which frankly the ones for it never excited me anyway

I suspect this very well could be enabled to 200 MHz but as its a board spin maybe not... wont be till someone gets one and gives it go that we will know

Edit.. on second thought they could have just depopd it and its just a bom rev

No, it needs be a new PCB as the signal path has changed to allow a single ADC to process all 4 channels.

Its a single now? Ouch.....  market fishing for higher profit margins? This seems like a lot of effort for a lot less product for not a lot less money..... no idea who would buy this and just throw their dollars away as far as single user or small groups go...  this thing is a flop for the hobbyist with the E version around and not much more

[tautech]

After looking it over it seems more or less 100 bucks less for losing the accessory port.. which frankly the ones for it never excited me anyway

I suspect this very well could be enabled to 200 MHz but as its a board spin maybe not... wont be till someone gets one and gives it go that we will know

Edit.. on second thought they could have just depopd it and its just a bom rev

No, it needs be a new PCB as the signal path has changed to allow a single ADC to process all 4 channels.

Its a single now? Ouch.....  market fishing for higher profit margins? This seems like a lot of effort for a lot less product for not a lot less money..... no idea who would buy this and just throw their dollars away as far as single user or small groups go...  this thing is a flop for the hobbyist with the E version around and not much more

There are several omissions in capability with X-U now that were clearly outlined in rf-loops SDS1104X-U thread.
IIRC
No MSO, only 1 USB-A port, zero options, web server removed, lesser Pts FFT, no 500uV/div, No Bode plot.

It's obvious to me SDS1104X-U has been built down to a price point for the hobbyists first 4ch DSO where based on it's other specifications still competes strongly with anything else in this new price point.
The devil is in the details and one need study any DSO datasheet carefully.....which is no problem, we're engineers aren't we ? 

I see the X-E at a higher level of capability albeit more expensive however it's already a well proven platform in the sub $500 bracket.
SDS1104X-U is sub $400 bracket like SDS1202X-E but the 200 MHz 2ch can do some things X-U cannot do.

Interesting times.

[Fungus]

this thing is a flop for the hobbyist with the E version around and not much more

Well, that didn't take very long.... 

[Elasia]

There are several omissions in capability with X-U now that were clearly outlined in rf-loops SDS1104X-U thread.
IIRC
No MSO, only 1 USB-A port, zero options, web server removed, lesser Pts FFT, no 500uV/div, No Bode plot.

It's obvious to me SDS1104X-U has been built down to a price point for the hobbyists first 4ch DSO where based on it's other specifications still competes strongly with anything else in this new price point.
The devil is in the details and one need study any DSO datasheet carefully.....which is no problem, we're engineers aren't we ? 

I see the X-E at a higher level of capability albeit more expensive however it's already a well proven platform in the sub $500 bracket.
SDS1104X-U is sub $400 bracket like SDS1202X-E but the 200 MHz 2ch can do some things X-U cannot do.

Interesting times.

If they sell it at 250 on sale that would make a nice pickup.. half the cost and an entire different bracket on the cheap end

[tautech]

If they sell it at 250 on sale that would make a nice pickup.. half the cost and an entire different bracket on the cheap end

For a 4ch DSO....I wish.....what are you smoking ?

Can I have some ? 

[Elasia]

If they sell it at 250 on sale that would make a nice pickup.. half the cost and an entire different bracket on the cheap end

For a 4ch DSO....I wish.....what are you smoking ?

Can I have some ? 

I smoke only the finest 

Really though its not to far off from seeing one show up sooner or later

https://www.tequipment.net/Instek/GDS-1054B/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?v=7401  Instek 4 channels are only 310

[tautech]

Just so we don't forget the real specs of this new 4ch X-U...actually not so new as been available from web shops in China for a little while:

100 MHz bandwidth
1 GSa/s
14 Mpts << see table by rf-loop: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1120-new-sds1104x-u-4-channel-100mhz-1gsas-economy-oscilloscope/msg3356644/#msg3356644

Waveform capture rates up to 100,000 wfm/s (normal mode) and 400,000 wfm/s (sequence mode)
Decodes: IIC, SPI, UART, CAN, LIN
History and Sequence modes (max 80,000 frames)
Search, Navigate
Gated measurements
Statistics
128 k pts FFT, supports Peaks and Markers
1 mV/div sensitivity
No glare 7" display
Full channel tab info: input attenuation, input coupling, BW limit, Vertical position and V/div.


Of course some cannot open their eyes and plainly see all these things staring at you in website imagery and in datasheets.

[Lowkus]

If I purchase an SDS1204X-E ($760) or an SDS2104X Plus ($1400), over the course of several years would I save myself more than a week of wasted time compared to using an SDS1104X-U?  Are the capabilities of the more expensive scopes going to have a significant impact on how long it takes me to debug problems in my circuits?

[2N3055]

I'm in my 40's, I have an okay salary, at this point in life I value time more than money.  If I purchase an SDS1204X-E ($760) or an SDS2104X Plus ($1400), over the course of several years would I save myself more than a week of wasted time compared to using an SDS1104X-U?  Are the capabilities of the more expensive scopes going to have a significant impact on how long it takes me to debug problems in my circuits?

It depends what you do. There is no much difference between 1000X-E and X-U for, let's say service work.
And there is lot of difference to 2000X+ if you do some development and want to be able to analyse and capture more.

[Martin72]

1000X, 1000X+, 1000X-E, 1000X-U....
Why don´t giving different models more clearer "names" ?

Same with 2000X, 2000X-E, 2000X+...

[tautech]

I'm in my 40's, I have an okay salary, at this point in life I value time more than money.  If I purchase an SDS1204X-E ($760) or an SDS2104X Plus ($1400), over the course of several years would I save myself more than a week of wasted time compared to using an SDS1104X-U?  Are the capabilities of the more expensive scopes going to have a significant impact on how long it takes me to debug problems in my circuits?

We really need know more.
Each of the 3 have their place but the 1204X-E and 2104X Plus are 200 MHz class DSO's whereas X-U is just 100 MHz.
X-U doesn't have 500uV/div sensitivity and while one normally replies I don't need that, consider what probes you might use with it. Eg with a 100x probe 100mV/div becomes max sensitivity for a X-U. Same applies for differential probes where 200x and 500x are common attenuations.
Do you already have an AWG and if not the SDS2104X Plus has a 50 MHz inbuilt as an option however for a promotional period this is free. Likewise the SDS1204X-E has AWG capability albeit in the form of an additional USB powered box that's controlled within the DSO UI. X-U has none of this.
Are you comfortable with touch displays ? They are faster and especially when partnered with a mouse. Of the 3 DSO's only SDS2104X Plus offers this.

Learning a new UI or any UI for that matter is a cost in time but IMO time is not the only consideration, it is the whole experience including total capabilities that you may not need right now but they're there for you to grow into of use when that need comes along.
I might say get the cheaper X-U or X-E and see how they fit with you with the view to upgrading when the need arises but the SDS2104X Plus has a quite different UI albeit with some similarities to other Siglent DSO's.

However, your budget so your decision as we cannot see your needs through your eyes.

[ballen]

It's clear to me.  This scope is designed to compete apples to apples with the Rigol 1054Z.  It has effectively the same price and feature set.  The Rigol has one ADC, this has one.  The Rigol does not have 500uV/division, neither does this.  The Rigol has no integrated web server, neither does this.  And so on.

[tautech]

It's clear to me.  This scope is designed to compete apples to apples with the Rigol 1054Z.  It has effectively the same price and feature set.  The Rigol has one ADC, this has one.  The Rigol does not have 500uV/division, neither does this.  The Rigol has no integrated web server, neither does this.  And so on.

Nearly right. 
SDS1104X-E was detuned to make the X-U that doesn't require hacking to provide 100 MHz BW.
OTOH SDS1104/1204X-E is a 200 MHz platform.

All do Dot mode correctly. 

[Fungus]

I'm in my 40's, I have an okay salary, at this point in life I value time more than money.  If I purchase an SDS1204X-E ($760) or an SDS2104X Plus ($1400), over the course of several years would I save myself more than a week of wasted time compared to using an SDS1104X-U?  Are the capabilities of the more expensive scopes going to have a significant impact on how long it takes me to debug problems in my circuits?

That depends on how complex your circuits are, obviously.

If you can afford it and you feel this is an important decision then go straight for 2000-series. They can do more analysis of the signal, they have better FFTs, etc. The manufacturers deliberately leave things out of the lower models.

Things like the touch screen of the 2000 will also save you loads of time in general use.

[Fungus]

It's clear to me.  This scope is designed to compete apples to apples with the Rigol 1054Z.  It has effectively the same price and feature set.  The Rigol has one ADC, this has one.  The Rigol does not have 500uV/division, neither does this.  The Rigol has no integrated web server, neither does this.  And so on.

It's still more expensive than the Rigol.

If anything, this will take away sales from the Siglent SDS1104X-E.

[2N3055]

It's clear to me.  This scope is designed to compete apples to apples with the Rigol 1054Z.  It has effectively the same price and feature set.  The Rigol has one ADC, this has one.  The Rigol does not have 500uV/division, neither does this.  The Rigol has no integrated web server, neither does this.  And so on.

Lets just ask few questions about new SDS1104X-U to Siglent experts. I don't have the scope so cannot test myself.

1. What can you do with segment/history frames. (Rigol cannot do any of this)
    -Can you play them back with persistence to get envelope of all captured frames ?
    -Can you decode from them ?
    -Can you enable measurements on history frames ?
2. Does it have Measurement trend (Rigol has that)
3. Does it have CAN/LIN (Rigol doesn't)
4. Does it measure over full captured data (Rigol doesn't)
5. Does it has better/faster msk test. Those are very useful sometimes.
6. Does it have detected peaks table in FFT? Is it sortable? (Rigol doesn't have it)
7. Does it have search function? What can it do? (Rigol has none)
8. Is 1mV/div real analog range. (Rigol has 1mV/div by zooming in software from 5mV/div)
9. Does it have color grading display? (It seems to does, Rigol doesn't)


Potentially there is quite some difference. Also, for those who care, Siglent is more responsive to user input.

[rf-loop]

Lets just ask few questions about new SDS1104X-U to Siglent experts. I don't have the scope so cannot test myself.
I am not expert but I still answer.

1. What can you do with segment/history frames. (Rigol cannot do any of this)
    -Can you play them back with persistence to get envelope of all captured frames ?

Yes and no. It can automatic playback backward and forward direction with selected speed and when speed is enough fast it also produce intensity gradation.
During playback it works like DPO. But it is not just as fast even if turn playback as fast as possible.
There can use intensity or color gradation and select what interpolation use or not at all.
It do not have settable overlay stack for sequential acqusitions so that it can overlay (stack) all segments in history to one screen. (This feature what have some user settable parameters is wished from Siglent. Looks like it is not in highest priority level in to do list)
As far as I know in fast sequence mode when sequence is ready it leave all segments stacked (overlay) on screen until user do his next selection or if it is in continuous mode it start new sequence. Least in X-E  models and afaik this works mostly like X-E.

    -Can you decode from them ?

Independent of if they are from normal acquisition history or after fast segment acquisition in history buffer these can decode.
It means that you can trig separate messages and even if period is slow these can capture to history buffer just as they exist and then afterwards individual acquisitions can decode. All what are in history buffer have full data just as in normal acquisition memory. (Added with relative time stamp. There is not RTC).

    -Can you enable measurements on history frames ?

Of course, fully and with full resolution. Including also FFT and math.

2. Does it have Measurement trend (Rigol has that)

No.  Only normal statistics.

3. Does it have CAN/LIN (Rigol doesn't)

Yes it have, just all what also X-E model have including 2 separate decoder (fullduplex).

4. Does it measure over full captured data (Rigol doesn't)

Yes and with full resolution including also waveform history buffer.
In this place I will also add that all interpolations are fully post processed and can always change afterwards including history or stopped scope. All is based to full raw ADC data in memory, in runtime and afterwards in acquistion normal memory and in history memory.

5. Does it has better/faster msk test. Those are very useful sometimes.

It have hardware based full speed mask test and test result do not affect speed. What is current normal wfm/s speed is also mask test speed and it do not affect wfm/s speed. Also mask test signal output (pass/fail) is full speed.

6. Does it have detected peaks table in FFT? Is it sortable? (Rigol doesn't have it)

Yes. 10 automatic peak markers. Is it sortable? I do not know what parameters user can give for search peaks or arrange order  in table.

7. Does it have search function? What can it do? (Rigol has none)

Yes, some search. I think it is best to read from User Manual. Not easy told by ten words.
But can not example search decode result data.

8. Is 1mV/div real analog range. (Rigol has 1mV/div by zooming in software from 5mV/div)

Yes, afaik.

9. Does it have color grading display? (It seems to does, Rigol doesn't)

Yes of course.
Most normal things are just same as in X-E models. Even User manual is same.

Dropped things are all Optionals.  500uV/div. Web server. BodePlot. 1ns/div time scale. Now minimum is 2ns/div. Other USB port dropped from back side.
 
Reduced things are Double ADC Double memory is now single ADC single memory. Now it is 1/2/3+4Ch in use 1GSa/500MSa/250Msa/s and memory goes 14/7/3,5M.
FFT memory length reduced. It is 1/8 from E-X model. Max is now 131072pts (128k). Other ways FFT works same.
History, fast sequence, measurements, decode, intensity and color grade all same. Also wfm speed same and so on.

[Elasia]

It's clear to me.  This scope is designed to compete apples to apples with the Rigol 1054Z.  It has effectively the same price and feature set.  The Rigol has one ADC, this has one.  The Rigol does not have 500uV/division, neither does this.  The Rigol has no integrated web server, neither does this.  And so on.

Lets just ask few questions about new SDS1104X-U to Siglent experts. I don't have the scope so cannot test myself.

1. What can you do with segment/history frames. (Rigol cannot do any of this)
    -Can you play them back with persistence to get envelope of all captured frames ?
    -Can you decode from them ?
    -Can you enable measurements on history frames ?
2. Does it have Measurement trend (Rigol has that)
3. Does it have CAN/LIN (Rigol doesn't)
4. Does it measure over full captured data (Rigol doesn't)
5. Does it has better/faster msk test. Those are very useful sometimes.
6. Does it have detected peaks table in FFT? Is it sortable? (Rigol doesn't have it)
7. Does it have search function? What can it do? (Rigol has none)
8. Is 1mV/div real analog range. (Rigol has 1mV/div by zooming in software from 5mV/div)
9. Does it have color grading display? (It seems to does, Rigol doesn't)


Potentially there is quite some difference. Also, for those who care, Siglent is more responsive to user input.

Considering what they did to strip the board to make this, its harder to guess at how well it will preform vs its mother without open reviews posted but does have a good bit the rigol doesnt.  That said i dont think this was made directly at rigol either... they have been in that segment for ages now.  It's both a platform round out and also like tau said to put a 100M marker at 4ch/400 without being hacked.  That said i'd think rigol would be coming out with something new sooner or later that would smoke it because its not rigol but gwinstek who actually has the better offering than rigol and this new siglent if hacked and dont forget both the rigol and gwinstek platforms are over FIVE years old now.... all they need to do is refresh their bargain scopes and it will push this one out.  Both of them have not had much reason to release something till now so siglent pushing this item is a good thing to give them a kick in the pants as the 100M mark will eat into their higher cost 100s.. gw's is some 600+

I'd be more interested in a comparison against gwinstek GDS-1000B that has a lot of what the siglent does

https://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/downloadSeriesDownNew/1738/130

[Fungus]

all they need to do is refresh their bargain scopes and it will push this one out.

As I said earlier: Rigol will definitely have to respond to this, even if it's only a price cut.

(although I still think it will eat at least as many sales of Siglent SDS1000X-E as it will of Rigol's DS1054Z)

In the end though, we all win.

[nctnico]

It's clear to me.  This scope is designed to compete apples to apples with the Rigol 1054Z.  It has effectively the same price and feature set.  The Rigol has one ADC, this has one.  The Rigol does not have 500uV/division, neither does this.  The Rigol has no integrated web server, neither does this.  And so on.

Lets just ask few questions about new SDS1104X-U to Siglent experts. I don't have the scope so cannot test myself.

1. What can you do with segment/history frames. (Rigol cannot do any of this)
    -Can you play them back with persistence to get envelope of all captured frames ?
    -Can you decode from them ?
    -Can you enable measurements on history frames ?
2. Does it have Measurement trend (Rigol has that)
3. Does it have CAN/LIN (Rigol doesn't)
4. Does it measure over full captured data (Rigol doesn't)
5. Does it has better/faster msk test. Those are very useful sometimes.
6. Does it have detected peaks table in FFT? Is it sortable? (Rigol doesn't have it)
7. Does it have search function? What can it do? (Rigol has none)
8. Is 1mV/div real analog range. (Rigol has 1mV/div by zooming in software from 5mV/div)
9. Does it have color grading display? (It seems to does, Rigol doesn't)


Potentially there is quite some difference. Also, for those who care, Siglent is more responsive to user input.

Considering what they did to strip the board to make this, its harder to guess at how well it will preform vs its mother without open reviews posted but does have a good bit the rigol doesnt.  That said i dont think this was made directly at rigol either... they have been in that segment for ages now.  It's both a platform round out and also like tau said to put a 100M marker at 4ch/400 without being hacked.  That said i'd think rigol would be coming out with something new sooner or later that would smoke it because its not rigol but gwinstek who actually has the better offering than rigol and this new siglent if hacked and dont forget both the rigol and gwinstek platforms are over FIVE years old now.... all they need to do is refresh their bargain
I'd be more interested in a comparison against gwinstek GDS-1000B that has a lot of what the siglent does

https://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/downloadSeriesDownNew/1738/130

This Siglent U scope runs the same platform as the GW Instek GDS-1054B and if you open them up you'll likely find exactly the same parts. The Siglent U is just a stripped down version of an existing design. The difference is that GW Instek did this earlier on.

When hacked the GDS-1054B gives you a scope which (compared to the Siglent U) has lower waveform rate but more memory per channel (10Mpts / 20Mpts in segmented mode), free form math, input signal filtering, better memory management (if you tell it to use 1Mpts it will use 1Mpts), 1Mpts FFT (with search and markers) and last but not least individual channel controls. And there are other neat things GW Instek has like being able to mount a Windows file share to dump data onto a computer directly over the network.

[rf-loop]

It's clear to me.  This scope is designed to compete apples to apples with the Rigol 1054Z.  It has effectively the same price and feature set.  The Rigol has one ADC, this has one.  The Rigol does not have 500uV/division, neither does this.  The Rigol has no integrated web server, neither does this.  And so on.

Lets just ask few questions about new SDS1104X-U to Siglent experts. I don't have the scope so cannot test myself.

1. What can you do with segment/history frames. (Rigol cannot do any of this)
    -Can you play them back with persistence to get envelope of all captured frames ?
    -Can you decode from them ?
    -Can you enable measurements on history frames ?
2. Does it have Measurement trend (Rigol has that)
3. Does it have CAN/LIN (Rigol doesn't)
4. Does it measure over full captured data (Rigol doesn't)
5. Does it has better/faster msk test. Those are very useful sometimes.
6. Does it have detected peaks table in FFT? Is it sortable? (Rigol doesn't have it)
7. Does it have search function? What can it do? (Rigol has none)
8. Is 1mV/div real analog range. (Rigol has 1mV/div by zooming in software from 5mV/div)
9. Does it have color grading display? (It seems to does, Rigol doesn't)
Potentially there is quite some difference. Also, for those who care, Siglent is more responsive to user input.

Considering what they did to strip the board to make this, its harder to guess at how well it will preform vs its mother without open reviews posted but does have a good bit the rigol doesnt.  That said i dont think this was made directly at rigol either... they have been in that segment for ages now.

Imho, it is NOT made for competite with Rigol DS1000Z. There is no single reason today for compete with it. There is markets for both and also it need remember 1kZ is today least partially obsolete so why compete with already obsolete instrument.
There is markets  for this Siglent (and many others, just as many company do shoes and trousers and one like this and other like that and all sell) and it is made for answer this demand... not vice versa direction. It need carefully understand that markets in some western countries is not all markets.  There is lot of crowing areas in world and there is growing demand. They do not all anymore all drool after Ks or Tek when more can get with less. Example RCEP is not nonsense and it also affect. Asia-Pacific countries form world's largest trading bloc. And just now.
Bit biased but... CGTN: China-ASEAN Expo in Nanning - A new center for the world's economy.