Author Topic: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection  (Read 864 times)

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Offline mawyatt

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Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« on: June 23, 2021, 06:37:57 pm »
First off, I know very little about the ethernet and WiFi protocols & setups.

Earlier this year our lab setup had the cable connection and WiFi router combined in a single Verizon cable "box", this box also had a few Ethernet connection jacks. Our main computer, a Mac, is connected by WiFi to the router and not ethernet. We used this setup with the gracious help from others here to enable the various Siglent Instruments (SDS2102X+, SDG2042X, SSA3021X+ and SPD3303X-E) for expanded capability and using also the built-in Web Server which connected by Ethernet. Recently the cable "box" has been moved to another room and wired Ethernet access is not possible, so the thought was could we use a inexpensive WiFi and Ethernet router for the Siglent Instruments (they would connect by Ethernet cables to the Wireless Router) to reconnected with the main Mac Computer via WiFi as before?

We are in the middle of a very complex R&D task and need to enable and connect some new Siglent Instruments just purchased (SDS2104X+, SPD3303X-E and SDL 1020X-E) without too much effort. Wish I could remember how we did this before, but my short and mid-term memory is not serving me well these days ???

If things work out (meaning making some real $), then likely another DSO/MSO and new AWG, maybe the new yet to be released SDG7000 series ::)

Anyway, if this Ethernet/WiFi concept of a wireless router for the Siglent connections mentioned viable, any recommendations are greatly appreciated.



Best,
« Last Edit: June 23, 2021, 06:44:37 pm by mawyatt »
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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2021, 07:24:08 pm »
You could set up a wired network with nothing more than a ethernet switch, if the equipment needs to be accessible on other remote network devices you could simple allow sharing of the macs wifi to ethernet devices, of course that will only work if the Mac stays turned on.
Cheers Scott

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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2021, 07:48:05 pm »
Scott,

Thanks.

Could we use a wireless ethernet router to create a local wired network for the Siglent and other equipment which would wireless connect to our cable modem for internet?

Edit: Also remember something about "engaging" with the Siglent's which didn't like the MAC to be Ethernet connected, but worked with the MAC wireless connected.

Thinking of getting a cheap wireless ethernet port, maybe with 4 ports.

Best,
« Last Edit: June 23, 2021, 07:51:17 pm by mawyatt »
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2021, 08:57:02 pm »
Mike,

to connect two rooms you can use Wireline modems. They plug in into power outlets and pretty much work as a normal wired connection.
So you would get a switch with enough ports on lab side and connect it through a pair of wireline modems to other side where cable router with WiFi is..

You can also bridge two network segments ( two rooms) with WiFi link as you suggested.
That can be done with also a switch and WiFi access point on one side and Wifi cable router on other side.

For actual work, I prefer any wired type of network (even powerline) over WiFi. WiFi can and will disconnect occasionally. If you surf Internet  over WiFi that is not a problem. Every page is new session and it handles intermittent connectivity just fine. But protocols that expect solid persistent connection over persistent socket can misbehave...

My  advice would be to lay a single optical or copper line between rooms and add a switch on T&M equipment side, if there is ANY possibility. Add WiFi extender or local Access Point if needed in that room to boost WiFi if needed. With an  option to shut it off when not needed.

I just moved to different place and is building my new lab. It is WiFi free, and also a mobile phone free zone.  I'm doing wired LAN and even some parts are fiber.
I'm not done yet, and didn't verify it in depth, but preliminary checks show huge drop in interference when measuring things.

Regards,
Sinisa
 
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2021, 10:52:03 pm »
Sinisa,

Thanks, I'll look into those Power Line modems.

If the WiFi type router works, that would be the simplest and easiest. Even with an occasional interruption, I don't think this would matter much with the Siglent equipment. Using the MAC might also be an option, but I couldn't get the Siglent gear to work properly with the direct ethernet connection to the cable modem/router and having the MAC directly connected, it needed the MAC to be WiFi connected to the cable modem/router. This is how I remember getting the Siglent gear to be upgraded, but as mentioned my short-mid term memory is fading.

Best,
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2021, 10:56:44 pm »
Sinisa,

Thanks, I'll look into those Power Line modems.

If the WiFi type router works, that would be the simplest and easiest. Even with an occasional interruption, I don't think this would matter much with the Siglent equipment. Using the MAC might also be an option, but I couldn't get the Siglent gear to work properly with the direct ethernet connection to the cable modem/router and having the MAC directly connected, it needed the MAC to be WiFi connected to the cable modem/router. This is how I remember getting the Siglent gear to be upgraded, but as mentioned my short-mid term memory is fading.

Best,

Well, that is certainly not a problem on a Siglent side, my equipment is all and only cable connected ( I'm run PCs, Windows or Linux). It might be some Mac peculiarity or maybe even router filtering something...
Anyways, if you need help let me know.

Regards,
Sinisa
 
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2021, 05:31:02 pm »
Gave up on the wireless and just tried to link things up with direct Ethernet port with the MAC, couldn't get the Siglent equipment (SDS2102X+ and SDG2042X) to work. The KS34465A linked up right away and worked fine. Then tried using a Ethernet switch between the MAC and Siglent, same result KS worked but neither Siglent would work. So then tried this with the Raspberry P i3+ running Raspbian, tried direct Ethernet port on RPi and KS hooked up right away, neither Siglent would. Also tried with Ethernet switch to RPi, same results KS worked, Siglent's didn't.

This is what I recall from last year, couldn't get the Siglents to work directly with Ethernet direct to MAC, or with direct connect to cable modem/router and with MAC direct to router, but did work with MAC wireless connection to cable modem/router.

I'm sure this is something to do with Siglent LAN setup, but not sure what this would be.

They are setup with Automatic DHCP OFF.

DSO IP is 10.11.13.220, AWG IP is 10.11.9.230

Looks like I may to bring the cable modem/Router back from the other room and do some more troubleshooting :-\

Wish I knew more about this networking stuff, but we always had the IT handle this when I was working, and never needed to get involved until after I retired.

Any suggestions/help is greatly appreciated.

Best,
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2021, 06:02:27 pm »
Gave up on the wireless and just tried to link things up with direct Ethernet port with the MAC, couldn't get the Siglent equipment (SDS2102X+ and SDG2042X) to work. The KS34465A linked up right away and worked fine. Then tried using a Ethernet switch between the MAC and Siglent, same result KS worked but neither Siglent would work. So then tried this with the Raspberry P i3+ running Raspbian, tried direct Ethernet port on RPi and KS hooked up right away, neither Siglent would. Also tried with Ethernet switch to RPi, same results KS worked, Siglent's didn't.

This is what I recall from last year, couldn't get the Siglents to work directly with Ethernet direct to MAC, or with direct connect to cable modem/router and with MAC direct to router, but did work with MAC wireless connection to cable modem/router.

I'm sure this is something to do with Siglent LAN setup, but not sure what this would be.

They are setup with Automatic DHCP OFF.

DSO IP is 10.11.13.220, AWG IP is 10.11.9.230

Looks like I may to bring the cable modem/Router back from the other room and do some more troubleshooting :-\

Wish I knew more about this networking stuff, but we always had the IT handle this when I was working, and never needed to get involved until after I retired.

Any suggestions/help is greatly appreciated.

Best,

That is interesting, more information is needed.

So you are using addresses from A class private subnet (10.xxx.xxx.xxx). Subnet for that should be 255.0.0.0, and gateway shouldn't matter for locally attached hosts (devices with IP address) if all of them have address from same A class (10.xxx.xxx.xxx).
Meaning if devices have any address in range 10.xxx.xxx.xxx and have 255.0.0.0 as a mask, they should see each other if connected to same switch.

I usually use C class private addresses (192.168.xxx.xxx, subnet mask 255.255.255.0) that gives you 254 available addresses. You pick some number for the third octet, say 88, so all your devices have one of 192.168.88.xxx addresses and subnet mask 255.255.255.0, for instance.

So you should check if they all have subnet mask 255.0.0.0 and addresses in form 10.xxx.xxx.xxx.

If they do then something funny is going on. We'l investigate more.

Regards,



 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2021, 06:17:34 pm »
They are setup with Automatic DHCP OFF.

DSO IP is 10.11.13.220, AWG IP is 10.11.9.230

This might be a sign of trouble since you are not network-savvy.

Show us your full IP config of scope and PC (IP addr, GW addr, network mask) in both equipments.
 
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2021, 07:21:16 pm »
2N3055, tv84,

Yes, think the IP address has something to do with this. I quickly (in a hurry) hooked up the cable modem/router nearby and began to try some troubleshooting. On the DSO I turned Automatic DHCP ON and it picked this address 192.168.0.09 (which is like the C class you mentioned) and I used this address from the MAC which wired to the switch connected to the cable modem/router. It also worked with the MAC using WiFi to the cable modem/router, so either directly wired or wireless to the cable modem/router. Now it works with the RPi

Making some progress, got to get some other stuff done and hopefully get back to this later tonight.

Thanks for the help,

Best
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2021, 01:10:02 am »
Back looking at this a little. Can get Web Server working with DSO connected to Ethernet switch and switch wired to Cable modem/router using DHCP ON, MAC is connected by WiFi. DSO Web Server doesn't work when directly connected to DSO Ethernet port, or thru switch to DSO Ethernet port.

Actually this setup may be better than trying to directly connect Ethernet switch to MAC, reason is that some of the other Siglent equipment (SDG2042X, SPD3303X-E) doesn't have a Web Server and the Siglent remote control applications are only for Windows, no MAC support :(

We don't have a true Windows 10 Pro laptop, only a cheap ACER Aspire that I commandeered from the "boss" which has Windows Home, but we do have a MAC with bootcamp and Windows 10 Pro installed then we'll be able to use Windows to control all the Siglent equipment from one computer. Just checked the DSO on the ACER Laptop and it works same as MAC thru WiFi, but also doesn't work when directly connected to Ethernet port!!

Anyway think we have a workable solution and many thanks to Sinsia (2N3055) for pointing out the address type, and also thanks to tv84.

Now to try and get EasyWaveX up and running for the SDG2042X, and try and remember how to "enhance" the new SDS2104X Plus, can't remember how we did the SDS2102X Plus last year tho :palm:

Best,
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2021, 05:20:40 am »
2N3055, tv84,

Yes, think the IP address has something to do with this. I quickly (in a hurry) hooked up the cable modem/router nearby and began to try some troubleshooting. On the DSO I turned Automatic DHCP ON and it picked this address 192.168.0.09 (which is like the C class you mentioned) and I used this address from the MAC which wired to the switch connected to the cable modem/router. It also worked with the MAC using WiFi to the cable modem/router, so either directly wired or wireless to the cable modem/router. Now it works with the RPi

Making some progress, got to get some other stuff done and hopefully get back to this later tonight.

Thanks for the help,

Best
Ideally if you're not ofay configuring networks you might place all your equipment in a 200-254 range where it's less likely to have IP clashes with another LAN connected device that your modem has automatically assigned an IP address to.
It would be my advice to set your equipment in a high range instead of anywhere near 192.168.0.09 and place stickers on each and/or set browser bookmarks/favorites for each.

Even if you want isolation from your WAN you can use an old modem and another switch for DHCP management and have a totally different range of addresses however if needing to also connect to the 'net that can create its own set of headaches therefore doing what 2N3055 suggests can be the simplest solution.

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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2021, 07:44:47 am »
This is definitely not rocket science and, as such, you should be able to put everything working with little effort. No exceptions!  :)

Back looking at this a little. Can get Web Server working with DSO connected to Ethernet switch and switch wired to Cable modem/router using DHCP ON, MAC is connected by WiFi. DSO Web Server doesn't work when directly connected to DSO Ethernet port, or thru switch to DSO Ethernet port.

Reading carefully this info, I guess you are using a physical L2 switch and a physical modem/router. Something like this:



If that's the case you have to be aware that, when using DHCP ON, you have to have a connectivity to your modem/router somehow (because it's this device which should contain the DHCP server that will assign the IP addresses to the network devices that are configured to use DHCP). With this, I mean that you MUST have your SWITCH connected to your MODEM/ROUTER ALWAYS.

If you use JUST the switch to connect the devices (an no connection to the router) YOU MUST manually assign static IP addresses to your devices. Nonetheless you should use a scheme like Sinisa described with a class C subnet (it's easier to understand what you're doing).

I think this explains all your problems and the reason you say that, with WIFI, it always works. Because with WIFI you have always the router involved...

Hope this clarifies somewhat what is at play here.
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2021, 09:20:39 am »
Sorry for the double post but now that I re-read the whole thread (|O  |O) let me provide some additional info:

I suggest you get a wireless router (with a 4 LAN ports, for example) just for your lab and connect your Mac, PCs and test equipments to this router (via ethernet port or wireless).

1. You should connect it to the original ISP modem/router (the "box") preferably via a wired connection. You would activate the DHCP server in this new router and your lab LAN would be all set and no problems whatsoever. You just had to ensure that your lab LAN subnet is different from the one configured in the "box". With  this setup you would even have 2 wifi hotspots (one from the "box" and one from the lab router).

2. Alternatively, if you can't install that wired connection between the "box" and your new lab router, you could setup this new lab router as a wireless extender or a repeater (BUT you would have to make sure that it supports this type of configuration) of your original "box". In this scenario, the router would serve as a wireless bridge between your lab wired devices and your "box" router. The Mac and PCs could connect physically to this lab router or wirelessly to the original "box" (because you would continue to have only one wifi hotspot, created by the "box").

My preference goes to scenario 1.
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2021, 11:58:16 am »
After two nice tv84 posts, i dusted off ol' Visio and sketched a quick diagram. It is by no means comprehensive and detailed, but more of an overview what we want to accomplish.

In our home offices we often share Internet access and network with other "civilian" network devices. That makes it easy to get all kind of "nasties" on network by your kids (for instance) that might create problems in a serious environment. Idea is to have a "home" network that we treat as sort of "half hostile" and isolate a segment with only "serious devices".

That can be accomplished with inexpensive router and a bit of configuration. I prefer Mikrotik equipment for this, but any decent device will do.

EDIT: I realized that I didn't mention one more good thing about this layout. It has the advantage that if you change Internet provider or if there is a configuration change on that side, all you need to change is few parameters on WAN interface of your internal router. All your devices on internal network don't need to change a thing....
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 01:09:43 pm by 2N3055 »
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2021, 12:30:27 pm »
i dusted off ol' Visio and sketched a quick diagram.

 :-+  Could very well be a sticky.
 
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2021, 03:06:14 pm »
This is definitely not rocket science and, as such, you should be able to put everything working with little effort. No exceptions!  :)

Something like this:



If that's the case you have to be aware that, when using DHCP ON, you have to have a connectivity to your modem/router somehow (because it's this device which should contain the DHCP server that will assign the IP addresses to the network devices that are configured to use DHCP). With this, I mean that you MUST have your SWITCH connected to your MODEM/ROUTER ALWAYS.

If you use JUST the switch to connect the devices (an no connection to the router) YOU MUST manually assign static IP addresses to your devices. Nonetheless you should use a scheme like Sinisa described with a class C subnet (it's easier to understand what you're doing).

I think this explains all your problems and the reason you say that, with WIFI, it always works. Because with WIFI you have always the router involved...

Hope this clarifies somewhat what is at play here.

Yep, this is what we have working :-+

Best,
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2021, 03:12:45 pm »
Sorry for the double post but now that I re-read the whole thread (|O  |O) let me provide some additional info:

I suggest you get a wireless router (with a 4 LAN ports, for example) just for your lab and connect your Mac, PCs and test equipments to this router (via ethernet port or wireless).

1. You should connect it to the original ISP modem/router (the "box") preferably via a wired connection. You would activate the DHCP server in this new router and your lab LAN would be all set and no problems whatsoever. You just had to ensure that your lab LAN subnet is different from the one configured in the "box". With  this setup you would even have 2 wifi hotspots (one from the "box" and one from the lab router).

2. Alternatively, if you can't install that wired connection between the "box" and your new lab router, you could setup this new lab router as a wireless extender or a repeater (BUT you would have to make sure that it supports this type of configuration) of your original "box". In this scenario, the router would serve as a wireless bridge between your lab wired devices and your "box" router. The Mac and PCs could connect physically to this lab router or wirelessly to the original "box" (because you would continue to have only one wifi hotspot, created by the "box").

My preference goes to scenario 1.

This is what was the first setup, scenario 1 we got working, scenario 2 did not because the Linksys router we got doesn't support use as a wireless extender or repeater. Will return the router and get one that supports use as a repeater/extender.

Best,
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent Ethernet and WiFi connection
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2021, 03:45:38 pm »
After two nice tv84 posts, i dusted off ol' Visio and sketched a quick diagram. It is by no means comprehensive and detailed, but more of an overview what we want to accomplish.

In our home offices we often share Internet access and network with other "civilian" network devices. That makes it easy to get all kind of "nasties" on network by your kids (for instance) that might create problems in a serious environment. Idea is to have a "home" network that we treat as sort of "half hostile" and isolate a segment with only "serious devices".

That can be accomplished with inexpensive router and a bit of configuration. I prefer Mikrotik equipment for this, but any decent device will do.

EDIT: I realized that I didn't mention one more good thing about this layout. It has the advantage that if you change Internet provider or if there is a configuration change on that side, all you need to change is few parameters on WAN interface of your internal router. All your devices on internal network don't need to change a thing....

That looks like an ideal network setup :-+

As indicated above, we have things working OK now with your and tv84 help, however when some time can be freed up from the other tasks at hand, we'll be looking into reconfiguring the network into something like you've shown!!

Now to get back to upgrading the SDS2104X Plus and finding the posts for that (including the source of the enabling codes), then actual design work!!

Thanks for all the help.

Best, 
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