Author Topic: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X  (Read 494691 times)

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Offline lugamodder

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1925 on: September 16, 2024, 08:18:31 pm »
I am currently in the process of choosing an affordable bench multimeter for hobby use and am considering purchasing the SDM3045X. Upon closely studying the datasheets, I found that the datasheets from different versions show significantly different accuracy levels.

For example, in the datasheet from Siglentna and Siglenteu (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/02/SDM3045X_DataSheet_E04A.pdf), the DCV accuracy for the 6V range is 0.06% + 8, while in the older datasheet from Welectron (https://www.welectron.com/mediafiles/datasheets/siglent/Siglent_SDM3045X_Datasheet-Web.pdf), it’s 0.02% + 6. Does anyone know which is correct? Or is there currently a new 'improved' version of the device being released?
 

Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1926 on: September 16, 2024, 08:28:40 pm »
I am currently in the process of choosing an affordable bench multimeter for hobby use and am considering purchasing the SDM3045X. Upon closely studying the datasheets, I found that the datasheets from different versions show significantly different accuracy levels.

For example, in the datasheet from Siglentna and Siglenteu (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/02/SDM3045X_DataSheet_E04A.pdf), the DCV accuracy for the 6V range is 0.06% + 8, while in the older datasheet from Welectron (https://www.welectron.com/mediafiles/datasheets/siglent/Siglent_SDM3045X_Datasheet-Web.pdf), it’s 0.02% + 6. Does anyone know which is correct? Or is there currently a new 'improved' version of the device being released?
Current version from HQ website:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/23_02_21/SDM3045X_DataSheet_E04A.pdf
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 
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Offline vulubalulu

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1927 on: September 16, 2024, 10:37:38 pm »
Do these DMMs still suffer from the 2V relay click or has this been solved with a firmware update?
 

Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1928 on: September 16, 2024, 11:19:50 pm »
Do these DMMs still suffer from the 2V relay click or has this been solved with a firmware update?
SDM3045X ?
Study this carefully for answers:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline vulubalulu

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1929 on: September 17, 2024, 02:09:49 am »
Do these DMMs still suffer from the 2V relay click or has this been solved with a firmware update?
SDM3045X ?
Study this carefully for answers:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/
thanks, so the solution is to get the chinese x-e version or buy the 3055x.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1930 on: September 17, 2024, 02:24:47 am »
thanks, so the solution is to get the chinese x-e version or buy the 3055x.

Try this thread instead: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-to-sdm3055x-e-improvement-thread/

Note that some newer hardware versions without public firmware of the 3045X cannot be improved (yet?).

If you can afford the 3055, get that instead, as it is superior hardware.
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Offline Korchahin

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1931 on: November 14, 2024, 09:33:04 pm »
Hi all! Became the owner of Siglent SDM3065X. First of all, I updated the firmware (since it was factory). Everything went well and the meter began to work faster and more responsively. Tell me such a moment. In DCV mode (AZ-off) 200mV, closed terminals shows a small voltage, 3.0-3.2 µV
(000.0032mV). Is this a deviation formed over a long period relative to calibration or something else? Is it possible to correct this or is it better not to have a calibrator?
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1932 on: November 14, 2024, 09:43:56 pm »
Hi,

In other words, what did you expect it to show?

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1933 on: November 14, 2024, 10:12:15 pm »
Welcome to a higher class of meter. I had a similar response when I first got my 3065. If you search back a bit, somebody responded to me with a video Dave posted explaining what you're seeing.
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 
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Offline skander36

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1934 on: November 14, 2024, 10:48:16 pm »
Hi all! Became the owner of Siglent SDM3065X. ..

Bad choice. Do you like gambling?
I would say that for this value you don't need to worry. How do you close terminals? With probes or a shunt? For better results use a 4 pin shunt in order to also close sense terminals.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1935 on: November 14, 2024, 10:55:46 pm »
Bad choice. Do you like gambling?

You're the only one I've seen not happy with their 3065. How much do you want for it? 😉
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1936 on: November 14, 2024, 11:08:13 pm »
Bad choice. Do you like gambling?

You're the only one I've seen not happy with their 3065. How much do you want for it? 😉
How could I be satisfied with that drift? Do you think before write?
That means gambling: anyone could have been in my place.
And also the double fail of Siglent:
1. Deliver on sale with such problem.
2. Fail to fix it. They said : "We have repair your meter" ... really?
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1937 on: November 14, 2024, 11:35:36 pm »
How could I be satisfied with that drift? Do you think before write?
That means gambling: anyone could have been in my place.
And also the double fail of Siglent:
1. Deliver on sale with such problem.
2. Fail to fix it. They said : "We have repair your meter" ... really?

We discussed this before, but I don't recall seeing anything showing the drift over time using a proper reference and using software like TestController  to show the behavior.

Personally, my 3065 has shown excellent stability on test after test, not just an opinion. 🤷
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1938 on: November 15, 2024, 12:17:01 am »
How could I be satisfied with that drift? Do you think before write?
That means gambling: anyone could have been in my place.
And also the double fail of Siglent:
1. Deliver on sale with such problem.
2. Fail to fix it. They said : "We have repair your meter" ... really?

We discussed this before, but I don't recall seeing anything showing the drift over time using a proper reference and using software like TestController  to show the behavior.

Personally, my 3065 has shown excellent stability on test after test, not just an opinion. 🤷

Please re-read what I was posted at that time. You are very short on memory and wasting my time.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1939 on: November 15, 2024, 01:07:16 am »
Please re-read what I was posted at that time. You are very short on memory and wasting my time.

I recall you making statements without showing real data. If I'm wrong, please show me the link to your post showing your issue with a proper test setup and logging. If you don't want to discuss it, you shouldn't shit on it every time somebody else posts about it.

EVERY company has a % of issues with their meters. Go look in the DMM6500 or DMM7510 threads. It's not unique to anybody. 🤷 If you think it's a waste of time, then don't waste your time every time somebody triggers you. I absolutely hate Rigol, but I don't spend all my time in their threads shitting on their devices. I just don't buy them anymore. 😉
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 
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Offline skander36

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1940 on: November 15, 2024, 10:44:18 am »
...
I recall you making statements without showing real data. 

Wrong! I've put the csv file exported from Test controller along with resulted graph in Excel an a picture of the PDVS2 Voltage Reference after calibration with a 3458 8,5 Digit (also calibrated). See attached.
This is the thread if you are too lazy to search for:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/decent-benchtop-multimeter-for-beginner/msg5608403/#msg5608403


EVERY company has a % of issues with their meters. Go look in the DMM6500 or DMM7510 threads. It's not unique to anybody. 🤷 If you think it's a waste of time, then don't waste your time every time somebody triggers you. I absolutely hate Rigol, but I don't spend all my time in their threads shitting on their devices. I just don't buy them anymore. 😉

I don't care about Rigol ...  :-//
Not discussion is a waste of time but your attitude of denial. In that thread guys with real knowledge about meters have concluded that my meters has a problem drifting out of specs very soon.
Maybe any company have fails but when you have the chance to fix it and you not fix it, I think this should be known. If Keithley or Keysight or anyone had this fail, this also should be known. I'm not taking anyone side. I'm not a shill like you. Any post about a problem on Siglent turn you on. I think this attitude affect more Siglent image than problem itself.
I want that potential buyers of SDM3065X to know about this, despite your repeated attempts to minimalize the facts. My post was not addressed to you so you can spare anyone time doing anything else.

 

Online Kleinstein

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1941 on: November 15, 2024, 11:02:32 am »
The curve shown looks like the warm up drift. some 25 ppm of change during warm up is not good, but also not that bad (e.g. 1.5 ppm/K and 16 K temperature rise). This number will likely scatter between units some are better and some may be worse. So the comparison with just 1 sample each gives not that much information.

It is still true, that from the construction the SDM3065 (and similar meters with a ADC chip and LM399 ref.) are a bit more prone to drift. The more problematic part of this is not the warm up part, but the long term (e.g. years) drift from aging.
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1942 on: November 15, 2024, 11:28:58 am »
The curve shown looks like the warm up drift. some 25 ppm of change during warm up is not good, but also not that bad (e.g. 1.5 ppm/K and 16 K temperature rise). This number will likely scatter between units some are better and some may be worse. So the comparison with just 1 sample each gives not that much information.

It is still true, that from the construction the SDM3065 (and similar meters with a ADC chip and LM399 ref.) are a bit more prone to drift. The more problematic part of this is not the warm up part, but the long term (e.g. years) drift from aging.
As long that the others say and show that their 3065X meters does not show this behavior it seem to be an issue don't you think? I don't see that as a normal behavior for a 6.5 digit DMM.
L.E. Especially that it was calibrated and adjusted by Siglent. They should see that and fix it or at least tell me about. But they tell me "We have repaired your meter".
« Last Edit: November 15, 2024, 11:33:56 am by skander36 »
 

Online Kleinstein

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1943 on: November 15, 2024, 11:54:56 am »
The specs for the SDM3065 allow for up to 5 ppm/K   (given for the  larger temp range, but expect a similar limit near 20°C.). A TC of some 1-2 ppm/K is kind of normal for a 6 digit meter. The temperature rise in a meter from off to warmed up tends to be in the 10-20 K range. So the 25 ppm change on warm up are prefectly in the expected range, though one could be lucky and get a better unit.
The more worrying point could be the absolute difference after warm up. This suggstes that the meter is more at the low end of the spec. intervall, possibly already out.
 
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Offline skander36

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1944 on: November 15, 2024, 12:55:10 pm »
For sure is out.
But I'm sure that no one can take that as good or normal state.
 

Offline Korchahin

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1945 on: November 15, 2024, 01:18:11 pm »
I'm happy with the purchase considering the price (400euro). At the current time of purchase, I have not found more suitable options. I have poor vision (retinitis pigmentosa) and cannot see the phosphor display well. Therefore, 34401 and similar ones with such a display are not suitable for me. Other options with LCD 6.5 were beyond my budget. I purchased it for my Siglent equipment collection and it fully meets my tasks and goals and even more.

I'm not a fan of Siglent, but their availability captivates me and it so happens that I have a lot of their products. I have been using all the devices for many years and they cover my tasks and low requirements.

To check, I will need a standard with a marked actual voltage of 7.5-8.5 digits. The LM399 scarf I ordered from Amazon turned out to be a fake (yes, I love excitement :D).
I would like to purchase a proven standard. Can you tell me where I can buy it in Germany (for a reasonable price <100)? Unfortunately, ADR/LM demo boards are not measured or marked on Mouser :(
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Offline skander36

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1946 on: November 15, 2024, 01:31:23 pm »
Under 100 E you can't find a proper reference for a 6,5 digit DMM. DMMCheck Plus & co is good for 4,5 maybe 5,5 but not for 6.5.  Even PDVS2 (which is 427E) is at limit for such a dmm.
About the value you see on display (000.0032mV) you should not worry. KS43465A and DMM 6500 show a similar value with short input.
 
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Offline Korchahin

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1947 on: November 15, 2024, 02:18:28 pm »
Ooh, it occurred to me that I don't necessarily need a labeled voltage standard. To measure the drift of devices, I essentially need to make (or buy a DevBoard) with a known low drift and focus on the relative deviations in the measurements. In this case, a good option would be either open source LTZ1000 or ADR1000(1) or a devboard based on them. What do you guys think about this?
The best is the enemy of the good. Fear the best, it will not give you peace.
 

Online Kleinstein

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1948 on: November 15, 2024, 03:45:06 pm »
A LTZ1000 or ADR1000 ref. may already be a bit overkill. The ADR 1000 seems to be very low noise, but the drift could be a bit of a weak point. One may still get away with a well aged LM399 or ADR1399 based reference. Usually these don't drift very much when they are not running. One should still first run them for a few weeks 24/7 to stabilize.
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #1949 on: November 15, 2024, 04:05:41 pm »
The curve shown looks like the warm up drift. some 25 ppm of change during warm up is not good, but also not that bad (e.g. 1.5 ppm/K and 16 K temperature rise). This number will likely scatter between units some are better and some may be worse. So the comparison with just 1 sample each gives not that much information.

It is still true, that from the construction the SDM3065 (and similar meters with a ADC chip and LM399 ref.) are a bit more prone to drift. The more problematic part of this is not the warm up part, but the long term (e.g. years) drift from aging.
As long that the others say and show that their 3065X meters does not show this behavior it seem to be an issue don't you think? I don't see that as a normal behavior for a 6.5 digit DMM.
L.E. Especially that it was calibrated and adjusted by Siglent. They should see that and fix it or at least tell me about. But they tell me "We have repaired your meter".

I remember your argument now. I like Siglent gear, but if you weren't too lazy to look, you'd see I also point out when Siglent has a problem with something. The difference is, I make sure they fix it properly, and I make sure there's actually a problem with the device, and not the operator first. 😉

Anyway, we did already discuss this. You complained that you didn't want to let the meter properly warm up, and that's ridiculous. You can't make claims about a device's drift without first following the warmup time specified. Which is a minimum of an hour! And if you look at your chart, it stabilizes after an hour. Somebody else said it needs 4 hours before it's truly stable, but I've found an hour is fine with mine. You ignore this and complain anyway. If you don't follow the guidelines on the datasheet, don't complain about the specs on the datasheet either.

It's great that your meters that cost twice as much or more than your Siglent don't need much warmup time at all. That's awesome. If I could afford one, I would get the next generation of whatever Keithley releases. You can't take the datasheet from one device from one brand, and say another device from another brand sucks because it doesn't meet those specs. 🙄

In my attached tests, I did a proper warmup first. I would love to see you do a warmup first and then test your meter, and I've requested this before, but you didn't care. That's fine, you don't have to...but then the problem isn't proven to be with your device.

As pointed out by Doug, who sells the VREF10-001, my 3065 was good enough to show the drift of the reference itself accurately.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2024, 04:18:54 pm by KungFuJosh »
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 


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