Author Topic: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X  (Read 163172 times)

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Offline pipe2null

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #550 on: April 27, 2020, 06:25:56 am »
Has anyone messed with the new "Custom Sensor" feature of the 3.01.01.07 firmware for SDM3065X?  I haven't found documentation on it yet.  I think I've figured it out but I'm getting some odd behavior, so I'm not sure if it's just me or if I've found a bug.

I'm measuring a photodiode in photovoltaic mode, so zero applied voltage.  Spec says 0.4A/W response with 1.2mm^2 active area.  I measure it with regular DCI mode on 3065 DMM and get +/- 0.8nA when the sensor is in a dark box, and around 1.5uA with sensor pointed at ambient lighting.  Those numbers seem reasonable to me with a little noise around zero.  Turning on statistics with averaging puts "zero" at about 0.1nA, which is decently accurate in my book.

With the custom sensor mode, you can select DCI as the sensor type, which I did, and you enter a few Measurement->Result data points into a table for the DMM to interpolate, which I did.  But the sensor results I'm seeing appear to have 2 separate issues that might be bugs.  First, the interpolated displayed result of a current sensor measurement in ambient light seems close but not accurate to what I calculate it to be.  This might be a misunderstanding on my part, but I havent found docs on this feature yet.  The other issue is when you change Temp mode (with custom sensor selected) to display both measured value and interpolated result, the current reading from the sensor is showing around -170nA for "zero light", which I already measured with the same DMM at 0.1nA.  Changing back to normal DCI mode instead of Temp mode shows the expected 0.1nA.  The other issue I found is not enough significant digits in the table entry, +/-000.000001 is the smallest you can enter, so I can't just manually force an offset adjustment to work around the wierd "-170nA" reading issue.  I'm not positive, but auto-zeroing seems like it might be turned off in Temp mode with a DCI mode sensor.

So...  Am I hitting bugs, or am I just not doing something right?
 

Offline Tjuurko

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #551 on: April 27, 2020, 10:25:51 am »
Firmware bug, with the newly added PT1000 thermistor the SCPI command "CONF:TEMP RTD,PT1000" is missing
TEMP:MDEF:RTD:TRAN PT1000

TEMP:TRAN?
>> MANU DEFINE,RTD,PT1000
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 10:28:51 am by Tjuurko »
 

Offline MikeLud

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #552 on: April 27, 2020, 11:54:19 am »
pipe2null,

Try copying the custom sensor file to a thumb drive then edit the file in Excel and you should be able to edit smaller then +/-000.000001. Once done then copy back.

Has anyone messed with the new "Custom Sensor" feature of the 3.01.01.07 firmware for SDM3065X?  I haven't found documentation on it yet.  I think I've figured it out but I'm getting some odd behavior, so I'm not sure if it's just me or if I've found a bug.

I'm measuring a photodiode in photovoltaic mode, so zero applied voltage.  Spec says 0.4A/W response with 1.2mm^2 active area.  I measure it with regular DCI mode on 3065 DMM and get +/- 0.8nA when the sensor is in a dark box, and around 1.5uA with sensor pointed at ambient lighting.  Those numbers seem reasonable to me with a little noise around zero.  Turning on statistics with averaging puts "zero" at about 0.1nA, which is decently accurate in my book.

With the custom sensor mode, you can select DCI as the sensor type, which I did, and you enter a few Measurement->Result data points into a table for the DMM to interpolate, which I did.  But the sensor results I'm seeing appear to have 2 separate issues that might be bugs.  First, the interpolated displayed result of a current sensor measurement in ambient light seems close but not accurate to what I calculate it to be.  This might be a misunderstanding on my part, but I havent found docs on this feature yet.  The other issue is when you change Temp mode (with custom sensor selected) to display both measured value and interpolated result, the current reading from the sensor is showing around -170nA for "zero light", which I already measured with the same DMM at 0.1nA.  Changing back to normal DCI mode instead of Temp mode shows the expected 0.1nA.  The other issue I found is not enough significant digits in the table entry, +/-000.000001 is the smallest you can enter, so I can't just manually force an offset adjustment to work around the wierd "-170nA" reading issue.  I'm not positive, but auto-zeroing seems like it might be turned off in Temp mode with a DCI mode sensor.

So...  Am I hitting bugs, or am I just not doing something right?
 

Offline MikeLud

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #553 on: April 27, 2020, 11:57:03 am »
Tjuurko,

Thanks, I did find that SCPI command, but it should work also with CONF:TEMP RTD,PT1000 because CONF:TEMP RTD,PT100 works.

Firmware bug, with the newly added PT1000 thermistor the SCPI command "CONF:TEMP RTD,PT1000" is missing
TEMP:MDEF:RTD:TRAN PT1000

TEMP:TRAN?
>> MANU DEFINE,RTD,PT1000
 

Offline pipe2null

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #554 on: April 27, 2020, 06:05:48 pm »
pipe2null,

Try copying the custom sensor file to a thumb drive then edit the file in Excel and you should be able to edit smaller then +/-000.000001. Once done then copy back.
I tried that and the results got weirder.  I'll try it again in case I did something wrong, or maybe add some more variations/datapoints.

The main problem is the current reading in DCI mode (good) and current reading in Temp-CustomSensor-DCI mode (weird) is different by a significant amount.  The photodiode in photovoltaic mode should only produce current in one direction, since no voltage is being applied, so the only negative current measurements should be at or close to zero due to noise in measurement.  The "-170nA" difference is too small to assume that the DMM is for some reason applying a voltage across the current jacks for general purpose sensor use (like what it would do across voltage jacks to measure resistance), but it is too large to assume that auto-zeroing of current measurement is turned off while in sensor mode.  Unless I'm missing something pretty significant, which is completely possible, it looks like a firmware bug.
 

Offline MikeLud

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #555 on: April 28, 2020, 11:04:59 pm »
tautech,

Do you know when Siglent is going to issue the updated firmware that Calvin has noted in the below post.

Hi,

received a test firmware from Mr Rottach that finally fixes the logging prob of the SDM3065X.
Now I can switch between different displays and the logged data is kept.  :-+

regards
Calvin
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #556 on: April 29, 2020, 11:46:14 am »
tautech,

Do you know when Siglent is going to issue the updated firmware that Calvin has noted in the below post.

Hi,

received a test firmware from Mr Rottach that finally fixes the logging prob of the SDM3065X.
Now I can switch between different displays and the logged data is kept.  :-+

regards
Calvin
Nope I don't sorry, I prefer not to trouble them while they go about the work we give them which lately has been a bit. However when been promised that some improvement is not far away and doesn't materialize I get out the  :horse: !

User adjustments is what I've been pushing behind the scenes lately and if you are all up to date with 3065X FW and hunt through menus you might notice the first incarnations of it.
Ideally it needs be polished more so owners can easily extract their original calibration as a backup should they stuff up any adjustment to the original calibration.
There's a secret draft of the procedure that we hope will be released before long and also ported to 3055 so owners with accurate references can address any measurement inaccuracy and aging drift.

I check for updates most days and post them in their appropriate threads so those that have posted in them like you have here will see new replies flagged when you next visit.
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Offline OoVoO

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #557 on: May 07, 2020, 04:04:56 am »
I got the device SDM3055, checked in the Diode and Continuity mode - the reaction time is not super, but within the acceptable range I am satisfied. The diodes are checked with, Threshold 2-4V, a voltage of test 6V, a current of 1mA.

Thanks to all!
 

Offline Tjuurko

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #558 on: May 12, 2020, 07:12:58 am »
All measurements were made with SDM3065X-SC

SW Version ID:  3.01.01.07
HW Version ID:  02-02-00-05-00
Production ID:  SDM3065X

Mode: DCV, Auto Zero - Off, Input Z - 10G, Rel - Off.

Measurement of ultra-low voltage (Range - 200mV, 100PLC).
±1.5 μV voltage span
[attach=5]
The figure is missing some positive values.

If we take unique negative and positive values and construct the lines, then they will not coincide (the difference is 0.5 steps).
My step = 29.331 nV
[attach=1]

Very small bandwidth in 0.05PLC.
[attach=2]

Attempts to save data to an external USB drive: 0.005PLC, RAMP 1Hz ±2Vpp
[attach=3]
Part of the data turned into garbage.

Overlaying icons on top of each other.
[attach=4]
 
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Offline pipe2null

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #559 on: May 16, 2020, 02:51:42 am »
@klausES:

It took a little while longer than I expected, but I finished the basics of my scanner card breakout.  I ended up rolling 4 separate projects into it:
- SDM3065X-SC scanner card breakout (the bottom half, plus green earth ground binding post to DMM case, plus BNC is the Ext Trig brought to front)
- Breakout for a cheap PC power supply (I've been meaning to do this for a while, just didn't get around to it previously)
- Metering for cheap PC power supply rails to OLED displays (don't have the metering circuits done, but the screens look pretty...  Heh)
- SCPI server via ESP8266 to dump Metering data to network (not done, but screen looks pretty...  Heh)

[attach=8]

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

[attach=4]

[attach=5]

[attach=6]

[attach=7]


 
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #560 on: May 16, 2020, 02:59:19 am »
Very very slick !  :-+

3dp enclosure ?
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Offline pipe2null

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #561 on: May 16, 2020, 03:38:26 am »
Yup, 3DP.  Used a Prusa Mk3S with MMU2S (filament multiplexer, 5 filaments/1 extruder).  The black text and line art is actually printed into the case.  I had a helluva time minimizing text size while keeping it readable, PIA color bleed.  Added 2 layers of clear TPU on the front face since I think it just has a better physical feel to it than PETG.  I had intended on doing the full Siglent logo on the case too since I had 2 other filament materials/colors available, but ran out of real estate and motivation for the extra work.  Heh.  Will probably put logo as a bitmap on the network status screen (upper right).
 
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Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #562 on: May 16, 2020, 03:43:59 am »
Thats real slick... i need to make one of those, just ordered a SDM3065X-SC yesterday

Any idea how long it usually takes them at the factory Tau?  Im guessing i wont see it till the end of May

pipe2null, anyway i could convience you to post your 3d model and bom list?

I'd love to modify it and do a side piece to go next to it instead of under and those plugs you found look pretty close to factory

right now that shelf has my SPD3303X with a SDG2122X on top of it and next to that is currently my one SDL1030X which will soon be with the SDM3065X-SC on the bottom, and two SDL1030X units stacked on top of it

So i need a side piece that will fit to the right side of that and break those out

Main reason i finally picked up the SDM is for themocouple logging when doing heat stressing and just because its cool.. i'd gone with a lesser line and hacked it but in this line its all different hw boards so boo
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #563 on: May 16, 2020, 03:45:49 am »
Yup, 3DP.  Used a Prusa Mk3S with MMU2S (filament multiplexer, 5 filaments/1 extruder).  The black text and line art is actually printed into the case.  I had a helluva time minimizing text size while keeping it readable, PIA color bleed.  Added 2 layers of clear TPU on the front face since I think it just has a better physical feel to it than PETG.  I had intended on doing the full Siglent logo on the case too since I had 2 other filament materials/colors available, but ran out of real estate and motivation for the extra work.  Heh.  Will probably put logo as a bitmap on the network status screen (upper right).

No shit? thats the exact 3d printer and multiplexer i got lol... im dying to get your files and printer settings now ^^
 

Offline pipe2null

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #564 on: May 16, 2020, 04:14:20 am »
Yup, 3DP.  Used a Prusa Mk3S with MMU2S (filament multiplexer, 5 filaments/1 extruder).  The black text and line art is actually printed into the case.  I had a helluva time minimizing text size while keeping it readable, PIA color bleed.  Added 2 layers of clear TPU on the front face since I think it just has a better physical feel to it than PETG.  I had intended on doing the full Siglent logo on the case too since I had 2 other filament materials/colors available, but ran out of real estate and motivation for the extra work.  Heh.  Will probably put logo as a bitmap on the network status screen (upper right).

No shit? thats the exact 3d printer and multiplexer i got lol... im dying to get your files and printer settings now ^^

Well, don't get toooo excited, I did it all in OpenSCAD and some people hate that software.  No problem on posting files, I need to clean it up a tiny bit first.  But since I'm feeling lazy, expect the files to be messy and disorganized.  Only catch is PLEASE DO NOT distribute my library for openscad support for layering/keepouts/etc.  I'm going to release it soon, but it needs work and peer review.  Hopefully it might catch on and we'll see more reusable part models that include keepouts and other nifty bits that make them easy to incorporate into other designs...  Perhaps wishful thinking...  Heh.

I'll post 'em after I do a little cleanup and add some comments (needed to explain how the layering/keepouts are done).

I'd love to modify it and do a side piece to go next to it instead of under and those plugs you found look pretty close to factory

right now that shelf has my SPD3303X with a SDG2122X on top of it and next to that is currently my one SDL1030X which will soon be with the SDM3065X-SC on the bottom, and two SDL1030X units stacked on top of it

So i need a side piece that will fit to the right side of that and break those out

Doing the front face following the 20 degree angle of the DMM increased real estate just barely enough to fit the bottom row of banana jacks.  Down the road I'll probably do something more stackable, but I need to use the thing for a while to see how my work flow ends up going.  For my use, the main benefit of the extra channels from the scanner card is when working on multiple different projects at the same time, no need to disconnect one to work on a different one.  I was thinking of making some fancy prototype solderless breadboards with built-in binding posts, but use a multi conductor connector to my breakout instead of only having banana jacks...  Thoughts for down the road a while...

EDIT:  BOM of sorts:
Bananas:  The gray is same as DMM dark gray buttons, yellow pretty close to "warning yellow", and the purple is extremely close to the blue-ish purple or purple-ish blue of the Siglent logo.  And the specialized tool for the banana nuts cost almost as much as the banana jacks...  Yea, I didn't realize that part until after clicking checkout.  I went with the quick connect termination only because I intend to redo the whole thing at some point (to be stackable), but quick connect requires a lot more clearance behind the panel, had to bend the bottom row up a tiny bit to keep from hitting table top.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2238-8/CT2238-8-ND/5028413
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2238-7/CT2238-7-ND/5028412
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2238-4/BKCT2238-4-ND/5765431
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2246A/BKCT2246A-ND/5765459
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 04:38:51 am by pipe2null »
 
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #565 on: May 16, 2020, 04:17:48 am »
Any idea how long it usually takes them at the factory Tau?
Ohio doesn't have them marked as out of stock but if your reseller hasn't got them I guess any supply delay will be just how long it takes Ohio to get one to your supplier.
https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3065x/
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Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #566 on: May 16, 2020, 05:19:14 am »
Any idea how long it usually takes them at the factory Tau?
Ohio doesn't have them marked as out of stock but if your reseller hasn't got them I guess any supply delay will be just how long it takes Ohio to get one to your supplier.
https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3065x/

I live about 45min from Solon ;p, I'm just south of there in Akron

I emailed saelig this morning but haven't heard back other than a generic back order email

Interesting, so siglent has units with the expansion card already made up?  Thats cool, I was thinking they were all made to order from their wording.. Probly still next week I'd guess if they ping ponging it, maybe I get lucky and they drop ship

I'd just drive up there but doubt they do that  :scared: :-/O |O  I got a bad case of the tea

 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #567 on: May 16, 2020, 05:29:54 am »
@pipe

Sweet, thanks man.. owe you a beer

All good, I hardly publicly share anything of that sort, ill send you back whatever I end up making

My use case is also similar but one project with different slow analog channels like relay switching, transducers etc and also having correlated temp data will be fantastic
 

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #568 on: May 16, 2020, 06:55:07 am »
Any idea how long it usually takes them at the factory Tau?
Ohio doesn't have them marked as out of stock but if your reseller hasn't got them I guess any supply delay will be just how long it takes Ohio to get one to your supplier.
https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3065x/

I live about 45min from Solon ;p, I'm just south of there in Akron

I emailed saelig this morning but haven't heard back other than a generic back order email

Interesting, so siglent has units with the expansion card already made up?  Thats cool, I was thinking they were all made to order from their wording.. Probly still next week I'd guess if they ping ponging it, maybe I get lucky and they drop ship

I'd just drive up there but doubt they do that  :scared: :-/O |O  I got a bad case of the tea
They should carry heaps of the SC models in stock but Siglent configure them at the factory so they are not a model we can put together at will as there are additional parts in the SC models apart from the card itself.
Some connectors, mechanical fittings the card slide in on and a bus driver IC that's not populated on the PCB.
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Offline klausES

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #569 on: May 16, 2020, 09:14:17 am »
My respect. You put a lot of effort into it.  :-+
This is really nicely done.  :)
regards klaus. "Art is when you can't do it ... because if you can, it's not art"
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #570 on: May 16, 2020, 10:04:10 am »
Any idea how long it usually takes them at the factory Tau?
Ohio doesn't have them marked as out of stock but if your reseller hasn't got them I guess any supply delay will be just how long it takes Ohio to get one to your supplier.
https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3065x/

I live about 45min from Solon ;p, I'm just south of there in Akron

I emailed saelig this morning but haven't heard back other than a generic back order email

Interesting, so siglent has units with the expansion card already made up?  Thats cool, I was thinking they were all made to order from their wording.. Probly still next week I'd guess if they ping ponging it, maybe I get lucky and they drop ship

I'd just drive up there but doubt they do that  :scared: :-/O |O  I got a bad case of the tea
They should carry heaps of the SC models in stock but Siglent configure them at the factory so they are not a model we can put together at will as there are additional parts in the SC models apart from the card itself.
Some connectors, mechanical fittings the card slide in on and a bus driver IC that's not populated on the PCB.


Holy cow.. Saelig told me they won't have any till July!!  Digikey lists Siglent NA having.... 1

Possible saelig could shake it lose or do I eat an extra 150 bucks? :/


Edit: Said fuck it and ordered direct from siglent na, thanks for the tip off, nobody has stock of these apparently short of importing
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 10:38:38 am by Elasia »
 

Offline pipe2null

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #571 on: May 16, 2020, 11:42:42 pm »
Here's the scad's for my scanner card breakout.  It's messy, but you've been warned...   >:D
 
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Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #572 on: May 17, 2020, 01:48:38 am »
Here's the scad's for my scanner card breakout.  It's messy, but you've been warned...   >:D

Thanks pipe, i'll figure it out hehe

Im going to put a couple high amp 24V/30A power supplies in mine as well with additional breakouts for my load units

Not sure what banana jacks i'll get just yet, im thinking a mix of what you did and binding posts along with bnc connectors and i'll need a few high amp ports
 

Offline pipe2null

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #573 on: May 17, 2020, 05:31:09 am »
Here's the 30A binding posts I went with, and might as well throw the other parts down as well:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pomona-electronics/6883/501-1316-ND/737883
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pomona-electronics/3760-5/501-1506-ND/736554
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/zf-electronics/CRE22F2BBRLE/CH809-ND/446075
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/640903-1/A0903-ND/172542

I also have a 24V/20A PS along side the PC PS power rails, that's what the second switch it for.  Not sure if you know or not, but the scanner card current channels 13-16 are 2A max.  To let you in on a little secret, the color scheme of the banana jacks worked out really well, but it was purely accidental.  The pandemic made digikey out of stock on all the normal colors when I was trying to place the order, so I rolled the dice on the available colors and got lucky...  Hehe.
 
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Offline Kleinstein

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #574 on: May 17, 2020, 07:20:10 am »
All measurements were made with SDM3065X-SC

SW Version ID:  3.01.01.07
HW Version ID:  02-02-00-05-00
Production ID:  SDM3065X

Mode: DCV, Auto Zero - Off, Input Z - 10G, Rel - Off.

Measurement of ultra-low voltage (Range - 200mV, 100PLC).
±1.5 μV voltage span

The figure is missing some positive values.

This looks like a software problem: with 100 PLC the ADC should be using averaging over may shorter conversions. So even if there would be a gap in the hardware, averaging should fill the gap, at least partially. Here the edges are rather sharp, like some software related effect (e.g. using a slightly different slope for positive and negative voltages and not getting the pieces fit together perfectly). Aside form the gap the performance looks quite good: low noise and DNL also looks good (except for the gap).
 


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