Author Topic: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X  (Read 190057 times)

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Offline TheDefpom

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #750 on: June 17, 2021, 10:45:25 pm »
I actually think the calibration could be done in a MUCH better and simpler way than the existing method to make general user calibration easier (for those wondering, I have the required information to do the user cal as I was asked to test out the calibration procedure).

My suggestion is to employ the arrow buttons in a special calibration mode, you would inject for example, a DC voltage in the DC calibration mode, and press the arrow up and down buttons to trim the reading on screen until it matches the calibration source, this could be done for all of the required calibration points, that way a manual user calibration could be done very easily without the current additional steps or needing to use automated calibration setups.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 10:52:06 pm by TheDefpom »
Cheers Scott

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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #751 on: June 18, 2021, 10:02:05 am »
I actually think the calibration could be done in a MUCH better and simpler way than the existing method to make general user calibration easier (for those wondering, I have the required information to do the user cal as I was asked to test out the calibration procedure).

My suggestion is to employ the arrow buttons in a special calibration mode, you would inject for example, a DC voltage in the DC calibration mode, and press the arrow up and down buttons to trim the reading on screen until it matches the calibration source, this could be done for all of the required calibration points, that way a manual user calibration could be done very easily without the current additional steps or needing to use automated calibration setups.
From high up a short while ago:
I think we should generate an app note to explain the (User Cal) feature.
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Online Peter_O

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #752 on: June 18, 2021, 01:59:38 pm »
Found a shot of my 3055 and two old guys.

Funny that the 45 and a 30 year old ones seem to agree by 10µV after all these years and the 3055 is some 400µV off.

But nevertheless the Siglent is well within spec, which claims 0.015% of reading + 0.003% of range (20V here), which is 1500µV + 600µV = 2100µV.

 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #753 on: June 18, 2021, 02:22:56 pm »
Oldies but goodies,  I think  newer stuff  will never beat theses  unless they use at least an lm399 or ltz1000  reference

the sdm3065 use one  i think ??
 

Offline Kleinstein

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #754 on: June 18, 2021, 08:33:56 pm »
The old 34401 and 3455 meters may have been adjusted to the same reference (e.g. same cal lab / reference). With age the dirft often goes down, so chances are the 2 meters are quite stable by now.

The SDM3065 uses a different configuration, with a SD ADC chip instead of a separate build multi-slope ADC in the 2 HP meters. It still uses a LM399 reference, but the ADC chip needs additional scaling both for the reference to the ADC and also for the input signal in the 20 V range to the ADC. So the 20 V range is not so much the prime range for the SDM3065. So the drift is from more than just the reference chip.
 
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Online Peter_O

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #755 on: June 19, 2021, 07:29:48 am »
The old 34401 and 3455 meters may have been adjusted to the same reference (e.g. same cal lab / reference).
34401 is made in Malaysia, 3455 in USA. I bought both from completely different 2nd hand sources and the 3455 was most probably employed somewhere in a post USSR state for decades. So it might not be the same reference, but proper calibrated different references maintaining a sufficient high accuracy.

Anyhow. The divergence of all three is within the range of specs. So everything is fine and there is no need to think about calibration of the Siglent 3055 for me.
 

Offline TheDefpom

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #756 on: June 19, 2021, 07:42:32 am »

From high up a short while ago:
I think we should generate an app note to explain the (User Cal) feature.

I spent today recording some video on the calibration procedure, I basically recalibrate my SDM3065X DCV modes in the video to show how it is done.

I also include information about some important points that must be considered and special steps that must be done that are NOT in the Siglent materials for doing the user calibration.

I will get this edited and ready to publish BUT I will not make it public until Siglent themselves make the process public.

And as (Bad) luck would have it just as I went to do the "after" comparison my Datron 4700 calibrator failed again... argh, so I couldn't show all of the DCV ranges like I wanted to, I could only show the 200mV, 2V and 20V ranges using Ian Johnstons PDVS2mini that I had on hand and had been on all day along with the rest of the gear.

I am now pulling my calibrator apart again as I write this to try and fix it again.
Cheers Scott

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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #757 on: June 19, 2021, 07:55:04 am »
Pop me a link Scott when it's uploaded and I'll forward it to Siglent.
I'm initiating some discussion with them about User Cal so your opinions may well be useful.
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #758 on: June 19, 2021, 08:40:53 am »
I am currently at a 4.5..6.5 digit table DVM and looking for

. AC with symmetric audio input, so is there as V+ / V- and GND connection mode (XLR alike)

. AC with at least up to 300kHz

. Temperature using may a J or K type sensor and to have a trace curve from 0....15 minutes, so the curve ma presented on the PC with given or the data to plot with Excel.  The sensor should be very little and good to connect to a very small box. Temp changes as little of 0.1... 0.5c to show on 20c...90c temperature range

. best without any fan noise  :-DD

hp




 

Offline MathWizard

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #759 on: June 25, 2021, 05:26:02 pm »
On the 3065x, is there a way to save settings like PLC, buzzer volume ?

I'm happy with mine so far, I haven't compared it to anything tho besides a 4.5D meter. I use 0.6PLC for most day to day stuff, and that's pretty fast to show the value on screen.
 

Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #760 on: June 25, 2021, 06:24:27 pm »
KC, low readings happened to be Gnd planes and measurements were taken just seconds apart like you would when in normal use. No plan and only poked at a few pads and when it beeped moved on to another one.

Thought I'd mention that the hold function works very nicely for me, but I do have one significant complaint about it: the main value display needs to show the measured value for some minimum amount of time, like 5 seconds or something, so that you can take a measurement, hear the beep, and then look up and see what it measured.  It would probably be best for this minimum time to be something the user can set. 

Right now it doesn't do that, and there's no good reason for it to not do so, because it already shows the live value (in small font) as a separate thing.

Obviously, if a new measurement comes in before the expiration time, it would beep and replace the shown value with the new measurement (or you could make that something the user could disable, thus making it possible for the user to specify the minimum amount of time between measurements).

It's been very nice to use other than that.
 
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Offline Kleinstein

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #761 on: June 25, 2021, 09:15:38 pm »
On the 3065x, is there a way to save settings like PLC, buzzer volume ?

I'm happy with mine so far, I haven't compared it to anything tho besides a 4.5D meter. I use 0.6PLC for most day to day stuff, and that's pretty fast to show the value on screen.
0.6 PLC is a rather unusual setting, as this has not much suppression of mains hum. The more usual fast speed is 1PLC (With many meters this is slightly less than 30(25) updates per second. With a meter with an SD ADC chip it could also be 60/50 updates per second.
For normal reading some 5 PLC is more suitable, so one can still see the last digit when fluctuating.
 

Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #762 on: July 09, 2021, 08:11:37 am »
So, my experiences with the 3065x (while Keysight is on shortage) so far as setting last used setup:

. Math dB value setup gets back to the ACV (using symmetric connections = bingo)

. Time graph range gets back to 60 seconds

What I would like to see:

. Time graph larger than 3600s, as used on stability measurement as current use & temperature deviations

. dB with more decimal digits as current XX.X

Overall, a different HW Gear user interface as the SDG, SSA, MSO, as the SSA at best. This looks like not as a common company WYSIWYG human interface

 

Offline MathWizard

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #763 on: July 09, 2021, 09:34:51 pm »
so that's command lines, I haven't tried hooking up to my PC yet, whats the software like for these in windows ?
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #764 on: July 10, 2021, 01:31:18 am »
so that's command lines, I haven't tried hooking up to my PC yet, whats the software like for these in windows ?
Fine but to be sure EasySDM installs correctly do study the install instructions and get NIVISA Runtime installed first as its drivers are needed for both LAN and USB connectivity.
Once the Runtime package is installed any of the Easy*** utilities can be added later without connectivity issues.
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #765 on: July 10, 2021, 10:48:27 am »
Well,

after doing some graphs, saved them to local/internal storage as xx files...

So would lick to have those xx screen shots to copied on my PC, not as single BMP files:

- SDM action as Folder copy complains bout file missing... is the any *.* to enter

- USB access shows on W10/device mgr on IVI as: Device USB\VID_F4EC&PID_EE38\SDM36GBD4R1035 requires further installation. ...??
  So no driver seen so far¨?

- also the BMP saved screen not as nice as SSA :(

so is there a simple way to copy those BMP files in one shot using USB/LAN??

Hp
 

Offline rea

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #766 on: July 23, 2021, 11:22:19 am »
Good day.

I had noticed a strange thing with (just my?) 3065X: if I am doing long-term measurements of some parameter (say, resistance) and watching the trend chart, around 2-4 initial hours of measurements have variation amplitude that is almost twice smaller as all next measurements (attached is the screenshot from 16 hours of 4-wire resistance graph; temperature conditions are stable within +- 3 degrees Celsius, trend behaviour is consistent over many attempts; the unit was pre-warmed up for at least 2 hours; measurements are done with 100PLC, auto-zero and 50Hz mains).  Unit firmware is the latest one for today, V3.01.01.08R1.

The second screenshot is from the shorter acquisition period and it shows how the amplitude growth starts.

Can anyone with 3065X check if their units behave the same?  Or, maybe, it is an already known bug/effect?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 02:01:09 pm by rea »
 

Offline Eric-H

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #767 on: July 23, 2021, 12:07:24 pm »
I think this is a bug I reported earlier on my SDM3055. The meter has 10000 points for the data in the trend chart. When they are all filled, some point must be deleted to make room for the new data. This is done in such a way that the data displayed by the trend chart is corrupted.

A work around is to increase the aquisition interval (e.g. to measure every few seconds) to prevent having more than 10000 points of data.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 12:15:50 pm by Eric-H »
 

Offline rea

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #768 on: July 23, 2021, 01:58:28 pm »
Eric, good day.

I think this is a bug I reported earlier on my SDM3055. The meter has 10000 points for the data in the trend chart. When they are all filled, some point must be deleted to make room for the new data. This is done in such a way that the data displayed by the trend chart is corrupted.

A work around is to increase the aquisition interval (e.g. to measure every few seconds) to prevent having more than 10000 points of data.

This is the very good pointer, thanks for it.  However, my second graph shows that the increase of amplitude can start as early as after an hour of measurements.  I am using 100PLC and auto zero with 50 HZ mains, so this gives around 4 seconds between the data points (which is in line with the period of "Trig" circle blinks).  An hour of measurements can give around 1000 points, not 10000.

Measured with 10PLC and auto zero for 1.5 hours (shoud yield 13 500 points) -- no jitter amplitude increase (though the measurement error is, of course, larger).  The graph is attached.

Thus, it might be the other problem.  What are the conditions to reproduce the problem you had found?

Thanks again.
 

Offline TheDefpom

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #769 on: July 23, 2021, 05:12:01 pm »
+- 3 degrees is a bit much, also when doing my calibration work on these I found that they need at least 4 hours to warm up fully to get the drift to an acceptable level, but even then I would try to give it a bit more time, they are pretty stable after two hours but are still drifting as they haven’t warmed up enough by then.
Cheers Scott

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Offline rea

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #770 on: July 23, 2021, 05:47:28 pm »
Scott, good day.

+- 3 degrees is a bit much, also when doing my calibration work on these I found that they need at least 4 hours to warm up fully to get the drift to an acceptable level, but even then I would try to give it a bit more time, they are pretty stable after two hours but are still drifting as they haven’t warmed up enough by then.

I did checked the amplitude growth result after ~1 day warmup, multiple times.  Actually, I had just cleared the trend data after the ~18 hours of measurement and it repeated the trend in amplitude increase.  So, there were "more warming time" in my experiments.  I had had the idea of the initial drift, so had tried to check/eliminate the starting conditions.  I also did started my measurement attempts at the different time of day/night to rule out the effects of the outside temperature: it does not matter at all and measurements with 100PLC steadily give mean value 19 mOhm and graphs show no differences due to the different starting time.

Also, for the environment temperature: I am running 3065X without fan (and with passive coolers on the TI ARM and Cyclone chips), so it is slightly less affected by the outer temperature variations.


As you (still, I presume) have 3065X, hadn't you tried such a long measurements with 100PLC?

Thanks.
 

Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #771 on: July 24, 2021, 07:48:43 am »

may look also at https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3065x-issues/

The X Time span is at may of 3600 seconds, so I am puzzled how you get hours X span's.

Open is still how to access the internal data using a USB connection or even SCPI. While getting the internal stored XX files is a pitta.
They clam a folder copy but this simple do not work, error box: select a file??
 

Offline rea

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #772 on: July 24, 2021, 08:52:28 am »
The X Time span is at may of 3600 seconds, so I am puzzled how you get hours X span's.

In the Trend mode the 2nd from left under-the-screen button switches between All and Recent sets.  I am looking at the "All" set.
 

Offline Eric-H

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Re: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X
« Reply #773 on: July 24, 2021, 03:32:49 pm »
Thus, it might be the other problem.  What are the conditions to reproduce the problem you had found?

Hi Rea,

I posted my issue earlier in this thread. It is on page 28 on 12-01-2021. There I describe how to reproduce it.
 


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