EEVblog® Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: tautech on September 19, 2014, 10:53:40 am
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3 Siglent Bench DMM's:
SDM3045X 4 1/2 digit (60,000 count)
SDM3055 5 1/2 digit (240,000 count)
SDM3065X 6 1/2 digit (2,200,000 count)
4.3" colour LCD dual measurement display.
(Changed GUI from FW 16R2)(SDM3055)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=212062)
The full family and specs:
https://int.siglent.com/products/digital_multimeters/ (https://int.siglent.com/products/digital_multimeters/)
https://siglentna.com/digital-multimeters/ (https://siglentna.com/digital-multimeters/)
SDM3065X Released April 2017
SDM3045X New 60000 count 4 1/2 digit model in this series: (released Aug 2016)
Teardown:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-829-siglent-sdm3055-bench-multimeter-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-829-siglent-sdm3055-bench-multimeter-teardown/)
FW & SW updates:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?CateIdss=5 (https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?CateIdss=5)
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/ (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/)
Recently released option for 3055 and 3065 models in the SDM3*** family is a 16 ch scanner card but it's only for factory installation unfortunately. :(
(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Picture/Product/SDM3065X/Scanner.png)
(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Picture/Product/SDM3065Xserial/SDM3065X.png)
6 1/2 Digit Benchtop DMM: SDM3065X
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6HE8qV3CA4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6HE8qV3CA4)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016306/#msg1016306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016306/#msg1016306)
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=4826&tid=37&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=4826&tid=37&T=2)
Siglent video:
https://youtu.be/pijpdKbq_O4 (https://youtu.be/pijpdKbq_O4)
Deeper investigations:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-siglent-sdm3055/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-siglent-sdm3055/)
Early/first SDM3055 releases were as the image below then later versions had X series bumpers/horns added.
The SDM3055 model name was unchanged and SDM3045X and 3065X were released later.
POI List
3DP Scanner card breakout from member pipe2null
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3070270/#msg3070270 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3070270/#msg3070270)
Retrofitting SC/Scanner card discussion:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5020645/#msg5020645 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5020645/#msg5020645)
Adding custom temp sensors:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/adding-customer-defined-temperature-sensors-dmm-sdm3000/ (https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/adding-customer-defined-temperature-sensors-dmm-sdm3000/)
SDM3045X Ranging issues and why:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/)
Continuity speed tests:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4840136/#msg4840136 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4840136/#msg4840136)
User Cal
Latest procedure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZZg605ioI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZZg605ioI)
Previous......now outdated.
Excellent webpage by Defpom for SDM User Cal CSV file creation:
http://www.thedefpom.com/siglent_sdm_calibration.php (http://www.thedefpom.com/siglent_sdm_calibration.php)
Carefully follow his instructions and use appropriate quality references to build your own SDM Cal files to compensate for accuracy drift as these bench meters internal references age.
Video above also linked on his webpage for guidance on how User Cal works.
SDM3045X PCB pics:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1955995/#msg1955995 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1955995/#msg1955995)
SDM3055 PCB pics:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615)
SDM3065X PCB pics:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1329966/#msg1329966 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1329966/#msg1329966)
Auto power up mod:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3503976/#msg3503976 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3503976/#msg3503976)
Size comparison:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3929207/#msg3929207 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3929207/#msg3929207)
SDM3045X independent review:
http://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMSiglent%20SDM3045X%20UK.html (http://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMSiglent%20SDM3045X%20UK.html)
Typical recovery procedure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1vrJdgiBJg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1vrJdgiBJg)
Not mentioned is the need to place the unzipped recovery package into the root of the USB stick and said FAT32 stick must be not larger than 8GB and with 4k clusters.
USB recovery packages:
https://siglent.tawk.help/article/instrument-stuck-at-boot-screen-recovery (https://siglent.tawk.help/article/instrument-stuck-at-boot-screen-recovery)
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I have my doubts about the photo, i think it is an very good animated picture straight from an CAD system, Why ?
Look at the back side, and zoom in on the BNC connectors, it's missing a centerpin, Siglent is faking equipment pictures.
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It seems that this is their very first multimeter ever released. Then I do not want it. It has a color LCD, so it must be full of bugs.
I would trust GW Instek multimeters instead. Yes, they make some so-so scopes, but they still work as promised. Almost.
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Looks like Applent is also getting on the bench DMM bandwagon. A lukewarm attempt with a 4 1/2 digit meter, using their LCR meter case and eye candy TFT touch screen. They left out the cap measurement, perhaps to avoid denting their LCR meter sales.
http://www.applent.com/products/detail.aspx?familyid=&model=AT186 (http://www.applent.com/products/detail.aspx?familyid=&model=AT186)
(http://www.applent.com/app_file/img/Products/180.00.png)
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The datasheet is now available for download from Siglent:
http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/EN/SDM3055_DataSheet_EN.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/EN/SDM3055_DataSheet_EN.pdf)
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf)
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Thanks, filled in the blanks on the bench meter spreadsheet. To be published soon.
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siglent new official website has been on-line, for more information, please visit http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=176&T=2&tid=37 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=176&T=2&tid=37)
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The datasheet is now available for download from Siglent:
http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/EN/SDM3055_DataSheet_EN.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/EN/SDM3055_DataSheet_EN.pdf)
Wow, looks like they completely ripped off the Agilent UI
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siglent new official website has been on-line, for more information, please visit http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=176&T=2&tid=37 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=176&T=2&tid=37)
The website looks completely wrong with Firefox version 32.
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Hello.
I tested the operation of the instrument SDM3055- remote connection via LAN. An error has occurred when setting the LAN parameters. IP number is stored in order, Subnet mask is not saved. Each time the instrument is turned off and turned on, the Subnet mask setting is not saved.
Is this a bug in the software?
Greetings M.
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Welcome to the forum.
Better you place this post in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/)
Siglent tech support will be online later today to help.
Sorry I have only tried the EasyDMM software with USB and that works great.
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Hello.
I tested the operation of the instrument SDM3055- remote connection via LAN. An error has occurred when setting the LAN parameters. IP number is stored in order, Subnet mask is not saved. Each time the instrument is turned off and turned on, the Subnet mask setting is not saved.
Is this a bug in the software?
Greetings M.
this is a known problem, we have fixed in the coming firmware (11R2), but we will release it in about two weeks.
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this is a known problem, we have fixed in the coming firmware (11R2), but we will release it in about two weeks.
Is there a way to increase Diode voltage limit to 3.0V instead of 2.0V?
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Also sampling time for DC, can you add 5 times per second as well?
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Also sampling time for DC, can you add 5 times per second as well?
Thanks for your suggestion. but can you explain why you need to add this feature?
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The datasheet is now available for download from Siglent:
http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/EN/SDM3055_DataSheet_EN.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/EN/SDM3055_DataSheet_EN.pdf)
Wow, looks like they completely ripped off the Agilent UI
Been wondering for some time about that. :-//
Inspired by this post a couple of weeks ago: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight's-new-34465a-(6-5-digit)-and-34470a-(7-5-digit)-bench-multimeters/msg626032/#msg626032 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight's-new-34465a-(6-5-digit)-and-34470a-(7-5-digit)-bench-multimeters/msg626032/#msg626032)
I thought I'd better take a deeper look just in case the Agilent was a rebrand. :-DD
SDM3055
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=143768)
Wow I thought, they share the same Lattice chip, but no they are different beasts.
White silkscreen indicates where the sheilding cover (left) resides, held by a single screw.
Omron relays and just right a SIL Caddock resistor network.
Note the gold guard traces.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=143770)
Mains transformer is sheilded from the main PCB and the PSU is a linear type, rectification and smoothing on the main PCB, TO-220 7805 regulator
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I was on the fence between the SDM3055 and the Agilent 6.5/7.5 DMM's.
Glad I did not jump the gun one way or the other. A good bench DMM is an essential piece of kit, whose readings must be beyond question. It forms a core of a lab.
Other instruments may slide with less absolute accuracy. An AWG, for example. Typically not a reference instrument, do I care if it wanders over time or is not absolutely accurate? Probably not. I have other equipment which can verify amplitude and frequency accuracy.
The instruments used to verify others should be 10x better.
So I've chosen the Agilent 6.5 digit, probably the 34465.
One the other hand, Siglent got the nod for the SDG5162.
This might serve as basis for a video, " Where to spend money where it counts in your lab"
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Also sampling time for DC, can you add 5 times per second as well?
Thanks for your suggestion. but can you explain why you need to add this feature?
When you use meter for troubleshooting and do pin-point measurements, probes are very sensitive if moved and meter captures those changes... reading changes fast...
5 readings per second is the best for this...
Keep in mind that not everybody uses meter for the same purpose.
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Also sampling time for DC, can you add 5 times per second as well?
Thanks for your suggestion. but can you explain why you need to add this feature?
When you use meter for troubleshooting and do pin-point measurements, probes are very sensitive if moved and meter captures those changes... reading changes fast...
5 readings per second is the best for this...
Keep in mind that not everybody uses meter for the same purpose.
P 11 of the Manual describes the selection of measurement speeds. Three speeds are available.
They are 5/sec, 50/sec and 150/sec. These options are available in: DCV, ACV, DCI, ACI and 2 & 4 wire resistance settings.
When any of these measurement types are selected, the 2nd softkey (from left) named "Speed" allows selection of any of these 3 available measurement speeds.
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Does anybody know what the available screen colours are?
So far I've seen navy blue and black, dont want to clash with my yakka overalls, nothing in the manual about it except for testing the display.
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Oh Muttley, sorry about the overalls, they will have to go. :-DD
There is no other screen options available that I could find, the surrounds are Grey, display background Navy blue and numbers, bar graphs etc are Yellow, not the Orange as seen on images on Siglent sites. Banana Yellow is my best description of the colour.
Other UI colours are white and light blue as seen on the website images
The yellow is very easy to see at a glance(when probing) and from good distances if monitoring a measurement. I guess Siglent have changed the colour from their early documentation for visibility reasons.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=176&T=2&tid=37 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=176&T=2&tid=37)
The second screen image from the bottom is the UI that one uses most often, except this one has the Dual measurement activated.
Keep in mind this is a reasonably new product, there is more FW due very shortly (Siglent posted this is so) and options of more enhancements is up to us to identify them and lobby Siglent for changes or more features.
Sorry Muttley, you'll just have to get a fashion consultant so you don't clash with your TE. ;D
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Bugger tautech,
I dont want to look like a dummy.... :-DD
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=144466;image)
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I have recently been asked now the SDM3055 might measure V & A simultaneously.
It is accomplished in much the same way as other meters.
This is a 3 wire measurement with Neg used for both measurements.
For Volts connect leads across of course, and Amps in series.
Select the primary measurement you are interested in. DCV
Then select "Dual" and for SDM3055 then "Shift then DCI".
Then the internal relay switches between the 2 measurement modes @ ~ 1 Hz.
The readings are stable on the display, no switching or flickering just constant.
The main display readout can be toggled with the "Dual" key to show the other Dual measurement as the main measurement, back and forth as you please.
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I wonder if this unit would be a big upgrade for someone using a Fluke 87V for bench work?
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I wonder if this unit would be a big upgrade for someone using a Fluke 87V for bench work?
Here's the link to the datasheet:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf)
Can I give you the comparison as a homework assignment? ;)
Next up will a description of logging, trend plots etc., maybe later today.
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I wonder if this unit would be a big upgrade for someone using a Fluke 87V for bench work?
Its been years since I purchased a bench meter, so the Siglent SDM3055 is a step into the future for me... I recently used my favorite bench meter to troubleshoot the family car and a fuse blew from age... It is a well cared for meter and on its second pair of leads... a Micronta 22-175A (1993, Radio Shack)
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Hello.
I tested the operation of the instrument SDM3055- remote connection via LAN. An error has occurred when setting the LAN parameters. IP number is stored in order, Subnet mask is not saved. Each time the instrument is turned off and turned on, the Subnet mask setting is not saved.
Is this a bug in the software?
Greetings M.
this is a known problem, we have fixed in the coming firmware (11R2), but we will release it in about two weeks.
Dear smatjaz,
sorry for my delay. the new firmware is here.
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDM3055-V100R001B01D01P12R1.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDM3055-V100R001B01D01P12R1.zip)
release note http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/Release Notes for SDM3055 Firmware version 1.01.01.12R1.pdf (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/Release Notes for SDM3055 Firmware version 1.01.01.12R1.pdf)
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There is a step missing from the guide included in that zip file. After going to browse, instead of highlighting "external" and pressing select, you have to highlight "external" and press the right arrow key to go into the directory to select the firmware file. Took me a while to figure out.
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It seems that this is their very first multimeter ever released. Then I do not want it. It has a color LCD, so it must be full of bugs.
I would trust GW Instek multimeters instead. Yes, they make some so-so scopes, but they still work as promised. Almost.
Is that a VFD or a LED display on the GW Instek? Looks really crisp and nice. For some reason I hate these DMMs with TFT panels. They just don't look as nice.
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Is that a VFD or a LED display on the GW Instek? Looks really crisp and nice. For some reason I hate these DMMs with TFT panels. They just don't look as nice.
VFD is crisper but that's about the only benefit. Meters with an lcd can fit a lot more statistical information and have capabilities for trend plots, graphs, etc.
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I noticed it, I will let the guide more clearly.
thanks for reminding,
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The datasheet is now available for download from Siglent:
http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/EN/SDM3055_DataSheet_EN.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/EN/SDM3055_DataSheet_EN.pdf)
Wow, looks like they completely ripped off the Agilent UI
Yes, it really does look the AGILENT TECHNOLOGIES 34461A; however it is a rather nice bench meter at a 1/3 of the price (Agilent $1,592)... I paid $469 US dollars. I just purchased this Siglent meter, and it is very nice in its 5.5 digit class.
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The datasheet is now available for download from Siglent:
http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/EN/SDM3055_DataSheet_EN.pdf (http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/EN/SDM3055_DataSheet_EN.pdf)
Wow, looks like they completely ripped off the Agilent UI
Yes, it really does look the AGILENT TECHNOLOGIES 34461A; however it is a rather nice bench meter at a 1/3 of the price (Agilent $1,592)... I paid $469 US dollars. I just purchased this Siglent meter, and it is very nice in its 5.5 digit class.
:)
Best you edit your reply and place it outside the Quote's. ;)
Yep at 1/3 the price, I'm surprised Siglent can keep up with production.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cONPazkWBg4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cONPazkWBg4)
^^^ Not me, might be a forum member or recent guest.^^^
It's not what it costs, It's what you get for your money.
Headaches and nightmares should not be part of the deal.
Muttley
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cONPazkWBg4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cONPazkWBg4)
^^^ Not me, might be a forum member or recent guest.^^^
It's not what it costs, It's what you get for your money.
Headaches and nightmares should not be part of the deal.
Muttley
2 things:
He forgot or didn't read the FW update instructions.
There are 2 parts to that FW upgrade, the "transition file" and the upgrade.
Don't believe me: look at the paper FW instructions he held up. :palm:
That will explain the corrupt boot screen.
The latest FW is 12R1:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg656787/#msg656787 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg656787/#msg656787)
Further.... it seems he has posted on his YT channel the GPIB module had been omitted from his shipment and it has been forwarded to him.
The GPIB unt for these DMM's is a separate USB to GPIB module, not a plugin module.
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The GPIB unt for these DMM's is a separate USB to GPIB module, not a plugin module.
This is a bit confusing. The picture of the backside of the 3055A on the Siglent America (http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=920/) website clearly shows a GPIB connector on the instrument itself.
It was my understanding that you, with the 3055A received a USB to GPIB dongle where the GPIB end of it obviously would plug into the GPIB connector on the instrument.
Are you saying that there is no (and should be no) actual GPIB connector on the 3055A and that the dongle/adapter you get is a GPIB to USB adapter, ie it the adapter connects between an existing GPIB network and the USB port of the 3055A? That sounds a bit strange....
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H.O
Your link to Siglent America didn't work for me but there
is a picture of the units rear on the first page of this thread.
Muttley
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The GPIB unt for these DMM's is a separate USB to GPIB module, not a plugin module.
This is a bit confusing. The picture of the backside of the 3055A on the Siglent America (http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=920/) website clearly shows a GPIB connector on the instrument itself.
It was my understanding that you, with the 3055A received a USB to GPIB dongle where the GPIB end of it obviously would plug into the GPIB connector on the instrument.
Are you saying that there is no (and should be no) actual GPIB connector on the 3055A and that the dongle/adapter you get is a GPIB to USB adapter, ie it the adapter connects between an existing GPIB network and the USB port of the 3055A? That sounds a bit strange....
Yes, this is the situation with my unit. Separate Dongle. I'm not saying Siglent did not intend GPIB to be integral to the 3055A, but it's not in mine.
I understand the confusion, even my Quick Start guide and E-manual show the image you describe.
Current data I/O's are:
Rear USB
Front USB
LAN
Excuse my ignorance but when GPIB is connected via USB, would the need still arise to use the other I/O's?
Would you just pull one and use another?
I can use EasyDMM software with either LAN or USB and switch from one to the other while both are connected and set LAN or USB EasyDMM to capture data to a USB stick on the front panel.
Do we need more total functionality than this?
As Jade (Siglent) keeps a watch on these threads, we might hope for an update if GPIB might change. :-//
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Hi,
Would you mind posting a photo of the dongle you received with your 3055A?
It's just weird, every USB to GPIB dongle I've seen (granted, I haven't seen that many) is designed to convert a USB port on the PC to a GPIB port (ie the PC is the host). I've never come across one which acts a USB-host which, if I'm not mistaken, it has to do here since the 3055A is the device.
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Hi,
Would you mind posting a photo of the dongle you received with your 3055A?
It's just weird, every USB to GPIB dongle I've seen (granted, I haven't seen that many) is designed to convert a USB port on the PC to a GPIB port (ie the PC is the host). I've never come across one which acts a USB-host which, if I'm not mistaken, it has to do here since the 3055A is the device.
It is listed as an accessory to many of Siglent's models including SDM3055:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1198&id=176&tid=37&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1198&id=176&tid=37&T=2)
Mine has a USB "A" plug (front panel)
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That explains it, thanks!
Still think it's odd that they show a dedicated GPIB connector in the pictures (which clearly aren't photos but digital renderings). They must have changed their mind on the way it was being implemented...
And the fact that you need to connect it to the front panel USB connector might be good information to know but I guess once you have it in an automation system actually using the adapter then not being able to use a thumbdrive isn't a big deal.
Personally, if I'll be getting one it'll be the non A model.
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That explains it, thanks!
Still think it's odd that they show a dedicated GPIB connector in the pictures (which clearly aren't photos but digital renderings). They must have changed their mind on the way it was being implemented...
OR
As I suspect: Siglent already had the GPIB dongle for their other products, but are yet to implement intregral GPIB in the SDM3055.
We'll see if Siglent can confirm intregral GPIB is yet to come.
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We planed to add GPIB and Scanner to SDM3055 series first, but we found there is no much request from the customers, so we gave up them at that time and instead of USB-GPIB.
Sorry to bring you trouble. Here we want to hear your voice about how important of GPIB interface.
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For me personally, not at all - I''m quite allright with ethernet/Lxi but your product pages and documentation really is confusing and if I was buying with the intention of using GPIB I'd be quite surprised and disapointed quite frankly. Then again, the dongle DOES apparently provide the promised interface so I don't know.....
Anyway, since you're asking for input: Being clear of what's actually going on and not showing fake product photos/renderings would help.
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I can now readily see how the fellow in the video managed
to bugger up the firmware upgrade as pointed out by tautech.
Not all that hard to get it right if you happen to dig a bit deeper.
The Siglent America site only has the required transition file
in version P11 and not the previous P09 nor the current P12.
So if your version is P09 you need to jump up to P11 then P12.
If you are currently running P11 it looks like you may still need to download that
version from the site to get the transition file required for P12, the current version.
Think I got it right, please forgive me if I didn't, tautech will be able to confirm if the above is correct.
Muttley
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Also previously informed here (http://siglent.freeforums.org/very-important-fw-update-for-sdm3055-multimeter-t125.html).
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The Siglent America site only has the required transition file
in version P11 and not the previous P09 nor the current P12.
So if your version is P09 you need to jump up to P11 then P12.
If you are currently running P11 it looks like you may still need to download that
version from the site to get the transition file required for P12, the current version.
Muttley
All correct. :-+
Great detective work. ;)
Yes, for the 12R1 I had to run the transition file again before it would accept the 12R1 FW as valid.
As I keep all these FW updates for client support, it was no problem.
Thanks rf-loop for your link that very clearly explains the process. :-+
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2 things:
He forgot or didn't read the FW update instructions.
There are 2 parts to that FW upgrade, the "transition file" and the upgrade.
Don't believe me: look at the paper FW instructions he held up. :palm:
That will explain the corrupt boot screen.
The latest FW is 12R1:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg656787/#msg656787 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg656787/#msg656787)
Further.... it seems he has posted on his YT channel the GPIB module had been omitted from his shipment and it has been forwarded to him.
The GPIB unt for these DMM's is a separate USB to GPIB module, not a plugin module.
Just registered to reply to this.
I did do both updates, as you can see I had the full update pdf printed, and had both files on the USB stick and updated it with both files, i didn't feel the need to spell out every single movement I made to update it, as i had the full update pdf in hand and followed it, also making comment about it not restarting after the updates.
Also, i did post an update on the comments to say that the GPIB issue had been resolved, as one of the packers at Siglent forgot to put the USB-GPIB interface in the box. While i expected it to be on the back where all the pictures on the net show, it turned out that it got changed when they release it, which is fair enough. After speaking with Labtronix, they contacted Siglent and DHL'ed me a new one within a few days. Can't fault Labtronix or Siglent as they both corrected the problem quickly :).
Thanks letting me know about a newer firmware, i will flash it later on :).
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Welcome to the forum.
Have you resolved your boot screen problem?
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Not yet, hoping that R12 will clear it.
Like i said in the video (i think), the boot logo isn't a major issue, as long as it doesn't nuke its self like the delivered fw version does :P.
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Well P12 didn't fix it, not sure about downgrading the firmware, wouldn't have thought it would be a problem but i'm not going to try it unless Siglent says it's ok.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeszsTcHTyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeszsTcHTyU)
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Well P12 didn't fix it, not sure about downgrading the firmware, wouldn't have thought it would be a problem but i'm not going to try it unless Siglent says it's ok.
Have you tried to run the transisition file again?
Siglent have a 3 year warranty for these, modify your profile with your country flag so we can suggest local support for you if required.
You can also contact Siglent directly via this thread or the links in it:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/)
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Well P12 didn't fix it, not sure about downgrading the firmware, wouldn't have thought it would be a problem but i'm not going to try it unless Siglent says it's ok.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeszsTcHTyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeszsTcHTyU)
Dear Pieh0,
Welcome to the forum. I am sorry for your situation, But we can not duplicate the problem. Maybe you can try to update Siglent Configure file.
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Just tried that file, doesn't seem to have fixed the boot logo image :/.
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I'm having trouble getting the configuration file to load on boot up. I set the meter to how I like it, for example showing statistics and a bar graph, save it as .xml, load it, then put the meter to "power on: last". The manual says the configuration is effective after a restart but it's not. It just loads into dc voltage without statistics and a bar graph. I can go to 'recall' and load the file and the statistics and bar graph will be there but that defeats the purpose of a "power on last". The manual says the meter defaults to dc voltage on power up so what's the point of "power on last" if it deletes the interface settings? What I'm trying to do is possible right?
I store the files on the internal storage. Just to add, when I go into 'manage file', I can delete .csv files and screen shots but the .xml files are not there, so I can't delete them. They are in the 'store/recall' menu however. Using the latest firmware.
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I'm having trouble getting the configuration file to load on boot up. I set the meter to how I like it, for example showing statistics and a bar graph, save it as .xml, load it, then put the meter to "power on: last". The manual says the configuration is effective after a restart but it's not. It just loads into dc voltage without statistics and a bar graph. I can go to 'recall' and load the file and the statistics and bar graph will be there but that defeats the purpose of a "power on last". The manual says the meter defaults to dc voltage on power up so what's the point of "power on last" if it deletes the interface settings? What I'm trying to do is possible right?
I store the files on the internal storage. Just to add, when I go into 'manage file', I can delete .csv files and screen shots but the .xml files are not there, so I can't delete them. They are in the 'store/recall' menu however. Using the latest firmware.
I agree with you, Power on:"Last" does NOT operate as one would expect.
You might expect ANY state the DMM is used in to be returned at Power On. You do and I would.
That a custom configuration can also be saved for frequent use is an additional feature IMO.
Several readings of your IMO "clear" description of your UI operation AND pages 44 & 45 of the manual indicates the DMM is operating as Siglent intended.
DC Voltage is always the selected function when the instrument is turned on even if you have selected "Last" or "Factory Default" as the Power On state.
This needs to be changed.
It seems after Power On you must then select your saved setting, this I believe is "arse about face", your saved setting should become the "Power On" state and the option to return to "Factory Default" (DC Voltage) or "Last" can then be selected if necessary.
Siglent....BUG
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I agree with you, Power on:"Last" does NOT operate as one would expect.
You might expect ANY state the DMM is used in to be returned at Power On. You do and I would.
That a custom configuration can also be saved for frequent use is an additional feature IMO.
Several readings of your IMO "clear" description of your UI operation AND pages 44 & 45 of the manual indicates the DMM is operating as Siglent intended.
'Power on last' does not operate in general. It resets all UI settings and goes into DC voltage. It does the exact same thing that 'Power on factory default' does.
I remember it working for some time at random. Turning the meter off with it in resistance measurement and statistics would sometimes return it in the same mode on power on, but it doesn't do it anymore.
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I agree with you, Power on:"Last" does NOT operate as one would expect.
You might expect ANY state the DMM is used in to be returned at Power On. You do and I would.
That a custom configuration can also be saved for frequent use is an additional feature IMO.
Several readings of your IMO "clear" description of your UI operation AND pages 44 & 45 of the manual indicates the DMM is operating as Siglent intended.
'Power on last' does not operate in general. It resets all UI settings and goes into DC voltage. It does the exact same thing that 'Power on factory default' does.
I remember it working for some time at random. Turning the meter off with it in resistance measurement and statistics would sometimes return it in the same mode on power on, but it doesn't do it anymore.
I'm guessing that has been lost with one of the FW updates, I seem to remember it too.
I'll point Siglent to your post.
Edit
For further understanding of this problem, it is easy to select the different measurement types from the front panel buttons, some require the Dual (shift) button like 4 W resistance for example, but when a special setup is used, it should be able to be saved for further use and/or be returned at Power on, wouldn't you think?
Let's see if any other owners can support us and Siglent getting Power on state right......
Replies of support or otherwise please.
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I'm guessing that has been lost with one of the FW updates, I seem to remember it too.
I'll point Siglent to your post.
Edit
For further understanding of this problem, it is easy to select the different measurement types from the front panel buttons, some require the Dual (shift) button like 4 W resistance for example, but when a special setup is used, it should be able to be saved for further use and/or be returned at Power on, wouldn't you think?
Let's see if any other owners can support us and Siglent getting Power on state right......
Replies of support or otherwise please.
Yeah it is easy to select what you want. I can enable the statistics and change the display mode faster than recalling the configuration file, but it's really annoying to do it on every start up.
I think power on 'last' should return the meter to the exact state in which it was powered off, including all UI settings and measurement settings. There should also be a feature to select which configuration file, if any, you want to be loaded on power up.
We also need the ability to delete the .xml configuration files.
This meter will be a winner once the bugs are fixed.
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Just tried that file, doesn't seem to have fixed the boot logo image :/.
When does the problem happen? Does it exist when you get the DMM with firmware P09?
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Yeah it is easy to select what you want. I can enable the statistics and change the display mode faster than recalling the configuration file, but it's really annoying to do it on every start up.
I think power on 'last' should return the meter to the exact state in which it was powered off, including all UI settings and measurement settings. There should also be a feature to select which configuration file, if any, you want to be loaded on power up.
We also need the ability to delete the .xml configuration files.
This meter will be a winner once the bugs are fixed.
Thank you, I think we should take your advice to solve the power on setting's problem. and the ability to delete the .xml file.
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Link to Shahriar's review thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3055a-5-5-digit-multimeter-review-teardown-experiments/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3055a-5-5-digit-multimeter-review-teardown-experiments/)
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There is a new firmware: http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1113&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1113&tid=15)
Sadly, there is no changelog. :rant:
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There is a new firmware: http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1113&tid=15 (http://www.siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1113&tid=15)
Sadly, there is no changelog. :rant:
I'll see if I can get the changelogs, Siglent had stated they would include them with all FW. :-//
FW ****13R1 also from here:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1390&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1390&tid=15)
Note, from the included Update instructions:
First you must update the transition file
transition.ADS was included in a previous FW revision, IIRC ****11R1 (29/1/2015)
transition.ADS can be obtained as part of previous FW here:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1239&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1239&tid=15)
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I think there is no need for the transition file when updating from the previous ***12R1, otherwise Siglent would include this file with the current download.. no?!
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When you say "no need", did you not use the transition file?
Did you check it updated correctly to the new FW version?
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When you say "no need", did you not use the transition file?
Nope
Did you check it updated correctly to the new FW version?
Yep
I guess the transition-file is only needed when updating from a firmware older than 11R1, I've updated from R12 to R13 without any issue.
However, there are still Issues in the firmware I'd love to see fixed...
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However, there are still Issues in the firmware I'd love to see fixed...
Please share them here or report them to Siglent.
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When you say "no need", did you not use the transition file?
Did you check it updated correctly to the new FW version?
Flashing the transition file fails. It's probably only needed if going from .11 to .13, not .12 to .13 since it already has it. Update to .13 worked fine.
However, there are still Issues in the firmware I'd love to see fixed...
Please share them here or report them to Siglent.
The update speed is still the same on slow, but middle and fast do seem a bit faster, but maybe that's just me. They did fix one thing; giving us the ability to delete files on the internal storage. Power on last still doesn't do anything and the meter just starts at its defaults. Also, next to the auto trigger on the top, there is a network symbol with an x on one of the devices, meaning the device is disconnected from your LAN. I turned the LAN off in the settings but the symbol is still there.
A changelog would be nice.
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For the money, it seems like this is a pretty ok meter, but somehow I just can't get past some of the laggy features of it. Thanks to the Signal Path for the nice review!
I guess my main problem with this meter, again, not that I own it, is the ranging update. The thing seems dog slow for range updates. For anyone who owns it, is it that bad in practice? I can forgive the screen update speed based on the slow/middle/fast setting. Essentially this should have to do with integration time. I don't know if it correlates 100%, but really, if it does, it really doesn't matter how fast the numbers update. If you have a meter which updates the display 100x/s, that mean you have an effective bandwidth of integration of greater than 100Hz. Meaning you won't integrate anything less than that frequency (AC or DC or otherwise). So if one want to integrate down to 1Hz, you need no faster than a 1Hz update rate. A similar thing applies to FFTs. Siglent says this meter can do 160 samples/s (or something like that), so that's really only good for sampling short term events, which is good for looking for noise spike or otherwise. I guess what I'm also unsure of is when it's in graphing mode, does it update at the 160 samples/s or at a lower rate? Is the only way to get the 160 samples/s from USB? And I also assume (probably could find it in the data sheet), there's a loss in resolution at 160 samples/s data collection.
My secondary issue in hunting for a DMM is that I wan't one with decent capacitance measurement (my old Fluke 79III just doesn't measure sometimes, and I don't think it's because it's out of bounds, it's something else). Finding a bench DMM with reasonable resolution and capacitance at a reasonable price point is proving to be a challenge. I repair a fair amount of vintage musical equipement and caps are routinely the problem, so testing them is critical. So I'm a bit stuck on the DMM hunt, I want a decent meter with capacitance for less than $1200US (Keysight). I could go BK precision, but for just a bit more, Siglent comes in the picture.
I prefer a bench DMM cause I'll always misplace a handheld somewhere and end up spending more time looking for it than using it.
Input or Thoughts?
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As this was my first bench DMM, Signal paths review was an eye opener, that most meters are much faster than the 3055.
Yes the display is slower than a HH, but other than that for normal use it works as intended.
I've checked the cap measurement against a Fluke and Smart Tweezers and accuracy is good.
I've not inquired if additional FW is imminent, but I guess after issues the review has identified there will be some.
I'll try to give you an update in a few days.
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Well I took a chance and bought this meter. And when I got it, it had version R11 firmware. I was doing some testing of the unit and it seemed just about the same as the Signal Path review, though I think he was using R12. I wasn't exactly impressed. All of my fears on this meter were there. The slow everything was just a little sub-par. Still for the money, it's not too bad, but there were enough issues that I wasn't smiling. So I downloaded the R13 firmware from Siglent (without much hope based on previous comments from Armxnian) and installed it. Wow, a real step up in speed on a lot of functions. The continuity was usable (R11 had a poor response time). For R13, if the connection is really brief, it may miss the event, but generally it's pretty fast. I would say just marginally worse than my old Fluke 87 III, which I've never had a complaint about. And if you up the threshold limit, it does get faster. Still at 50 Ohm, it's pretty good. The ranging is much faster. R11 was doggy switching from 2V to 20V range in DCV (middle speed), now it's as fast as I can move from a 1V to 10V output on the DP832! Not too shabby. Even the .1V (200mV range ) to 30V (200V range) switch is quick. Again, from my last post, using the slow speed isn't fair for range switching since the integration time is already 1s, so you can't expect the display to switch sub 1s when the periodic update speed is 1s.
The meter's performance is pretty good. Measured up to 3MHz on frequency, even though the signal was severely attenuated...in the 100s of uV. DCI/Ohms agrees with my Fluke (to it's 3.5 resolution). I have the .1% IET decade resistor box at work, I'll borrow it and test it out.
Again, overall, I'm pretty happy with the R13 update. Still room for improvement, but if the incremental updates are any indication, at least it's going in the right direction. Still wish there was an ultra fast speed.
Sadly I bought a Keithley 2110 reasonably cheap on Ebay, now I have to decide which one stays and which one goes.
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R13 is indeed an improvement over the previous version but 30s between the moment you push the ON button and the moment you see a value on the screen is still very long (4s for my HP34401A ...).
I will keep both of them for the moment but I find myself usually just using the HP for quick checks.
I hope this will improve further more with the next relase :-//
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Martin Lorton has made a couple of videos on the Siglent SDM-3055 bench multimeter if anybody is interested.
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wXZ5IezdP0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wXZ5IezdP0)
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxnSRGE82cA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxnSRGE82cA)
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I'll have to agree with most of Martin's points in the video. Though I think I'll give my unit a proper review of some of the issues he mentions.
The continuity meter delay is worse at lower thresholds...this is somewhat intuitive, setting it back to 50 Ohms makes it more responsive than Martin's test shows. I think my old Fluke uses 40 Ohms for the threshold and rarely do I fault it's continuity check. If I really want to know how many Ohms it is, I'll flip the unit to resistance to see what it really is.
Again, I don't agree that you can fault the meter for having a slow update when you want 1s integration time. I suppose there are ways to have a running average rather than a non-overlap average and still maintain a 1s integration time, but since the display is updating 1 time/sec, you can expect the display to update 2 times/sec.
One other thing I notices, even in the later firmware is that the dual reading between ACV and freq is dog slow. These two measurements should not require relay switching, but still, the time to make each measurement really bogs down the machine. Also for dual measurements, beyond the current disconnect issue point out both by Martin and the Signal Path, I can understand the latency in measurements for current/voltage measurements being slow as the relay probably requires some settling time...though I hope they can improve this in the future and not require an open circuit period.
And if Siglent can do another couple rounds (or just one good one) of firmware updates with the same improvements as R12->R13, that would be great.
Oh yeah, and Siglent, just publish a change log, it would take 30 minutes of time to make. I'm sure you're not fixing 100's of bugs per releases.
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I don't think display update rate has anything to do with integration time. NPLC only affects the internal sampling speed. I can have a device take 100 readings per second and have a display update rate of 1Hz, so I would see the 100th reading every second if no mean functionality was implemented. On the other hand, I could have a device take 1 reading per second and have a screen update rate of 100Hz, meaning the screen would show the same value 100 times for 1 second.
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Armxnian, while it's true what you're saying...those measurement methods could be done, I don't really see the point. In the end, you're trying to find a settled value and the integration time has a direct correlation to the settled value of a specified period of time. Siglent says they do 5 sample per sec on slow mode, but they only update the display about once a sec. So there is clearly a mismatch. If this is true, they are either averaging about 5 reading to get 1 update per display, or they're doing as you mention and only showing one value of the 5...which means they cannot resolve more than about .2s.
On other topic from Martin's video. I don't have the voltage settling issue he notes. I added a very large RC on the output of my supply and let it settle for a long time, then hooked up the SDM3055...it goes almost directly to the final result, no settling. There does seem to be bit of a jump in DCV when the filter is applied, but it doesn't jump much.
In looking at some other things, I used the Easy DMM software to capture some data. It doesn't seem to matter what capture rate I use, it's always about 50 samples per second. Not sure what that's about, but the display on the unit and the display on the Easy DMM shows pretty much the same thing. Strangly there is a weird bobble when the system goes through a zero crossing in slow mode, on both sides of zero. This can be rectified by going to either middle or fast, or raising the DC offset of the system. See the attached picture.
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Since slow mode takes 5 samples/s, I don't see much reason to average the readings. Why not just display all 5 readings in 1 second? I would rather see the 5 individual "live" readings. Averaging readings to display on the screen would be more useful for faster sampling rates where displaying all of the readings wouldn't make sense, or be impossible, like in fast mode (150 samples/s).
Furthermore, fast mode introduces noise, whether it be from power line or internal components, and can be viewed in the trend plot. You also lose a digit of resolution. Increasing update speed and potentially getting a less "stable" reading is a worthy trade off, since you would be using slow mode for the most accurate and precise measurements anyway.
Most hand held meters on the market have 3-4 updates/s, and even have bar graphs with 60 updates/s. Offerings from Keysight or Keithley are capable of much higher. 1-2 screen updates for a bench meter like the SDM3055 is IMO unacceptable, especially since it is capable of sampling at 150x/s. Increasing the screen update rate to something even just a little higher like 5x/s would make the meter much more effective and a pleasure to use.
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Hmm, I guess we can go back and forth on this. I still feel like there are some concepts slipping through the crack, but in general, I agree with you. I wish the meter gave a bit more control over the update rate and the effective LPF effect. Ideally they would have both controls exposed, but even the 34401 doesn't have this feature.
In reality, I'm less concerned that the slow mode is slow update, and more concerned that the middle and fast have basically the same screen update rate. That means the fast function become useless unless you're logging data.
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@Armxnian and verbatone
Thanks for your ongoing discussion, I've linked Siglent R&D to this thread.
Between you (and others), if you can belt out a wish list of improvements needed it would be appreciated. :-+
SDM3055 owners please.
Thanks and please continue.
:popcorn:
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I was on the fence about buying this meter. I wanted 5 1/2 digits and I liked the screen and features but, after seeing the reviews, I was worried about speed/update.
After reading that Siglent recently released updated firmware that addresses speed/update I went ahead and ordered from TEQUIPMENT. Should arrive sometime next week! :D
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Latest R15.1 FW
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDM3055_(V100R001B01D01P15R1).rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDM3055_(V100R001B01D01P15R1).rar)
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Flashed my unit. With the increased update rate, it's like a completely different meter. You don't have to wait forever to get a reading on the slow option. "Middle" speed is now very useful as it gives a balance between a stable reading and high update rate. Fast mode is insane, I can rotate the dial on my dp832 and see the values change live. Looks like the feedback of others and mine paid off. :-+
I did notice one thing though. When you change the display mode to bar graph, trend or histogram, the meter update rate significantly slows down, back to where it was before the new firmware. I'm guessing this is due to processing limitations.
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Flashed my unit. With the increased update rate, it's like a completely different meter. You don't have to wait forever to get a reading on the slow option. "Middle" speed is now very useful as it gives a balance between a stable reading and high update rate. Fast mode is insane, I can rotate the dial on my dp832 and see the values change live. Looks like the feedback of others and mine paid off. :-+
I did notice one thing though. When you change the display mode to bar graph, trend or histogram, the meter update rate significantly slows down, back to where it was before the new firmware. I'm guessing this is due to processing limitations.
Thanks for this feedback. :-+
More please as you find it.....
:popcorn:
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More please as you find it.....
:popcorn:
If there are listeners I'll keep talking :blah: ;D
'Power on last' seems to work randomly. I can't find much of a pattern to when it works or when it doesn't other than when it does, and you don't change anything, it continues to work for a while until you shut it off with different settings.
On fast mode, the reading seems to jump around by millivolts. However, if you enable the AC filter, it settles down. There shouldn't really be any measurable (at least on a meter) ac ripple coming from a dp832. Power line noise could be a culprit since increasing the sampling rate, as in the case of fast mode, reduces normal mode rejection. But would enabling an ac filter located at the input block noise injected from the outputs? Sounds weird.
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I see two strange things on my SDM3055:
1) When measuring VDC in slow mode I get different values when the filter is on or off. E.g. with the input shorted, I measure a value of 0.000 mV when the filter is off, and a value of 0.007 mV when the filter is active. I checked using the histogram display and see two sets of values, one clustered around 0.000 mV when the filter is off and another set around 0.007 mV when the filter is on.
2) When using a K-type thermocouple I measure a stable temperature of e.g. 20.0 deg C. When I then switch to VDC mode and directly back to temperature mode, I get a value that can differ between 0.5 to 3 deg C from the previous value. This occurs when the temperature mode was active for a few (10+) minutes before switching to VDC and back. It seems as the SDM3050 does some compensations on enter temperature mode that are not repeated while the temperature mode is active. After switching from VDC and back to temperature the compensation is done again causing the measured temperature to jump a few degrees.
Has anyone else seen these effects on their units?
I hope Siglent can fix these bugs in a next firmware release. It would give me more confidence in the measured values.
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Hi Eric.
Were you using the latest FW (15R1)?
It is available on the Siglent websites.
If this occured using the latest FW then I will report this to Engineering.
Thank you.
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Hi,
Yes I'm using the latest firmware.
Thanks for the fast response!
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I see two strange things on my SDM3055:
1) When measuring VDC in slow mode I get different values when the filter is on or off. E.g. with the input shorted, I measure a value of 0.000 mV when the filter is off, and a value of 0.007 mV when the filter is active. I checked using the histogram display and see two sets of values, one clustered around 0.000 mV when the filter is off and another set around 0.007 mV when the filter is on.
When this is obsevered do you have the Relative measurements setting On or Off?
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I see two strange things on my SDM3055:
1) When measuring VDC in slow mode I get different values when the filter is on or off. E.g. with the input shorted, I measure a value of 0.000 mV when the filter is off, and a value of 0.007 mV when the filter is active. I checked using the histogram display and see two sets of values, one clustered around 0.000 mV when the filter is off and another set around 0.007 mV when the filter is on.
When this is obsevered do you have the Relative measurements setting On or Off?
Relative measurement is turned off.
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I see two strange things on my SDM3055:
1) When measuring VDC in slow mode I get different values when the filter is on or off. E.g. with the input shorted, I measure a value of 0.000 mV when the filter is off, and a value of 0.007 mV when the filter is active. I checked using the histogram display and see two sets of values, one clustered around 0.000 mV when the filter is off and another set around 0.007 mV when the filter is on.
When this is obsevered do you have the Relative measurements setting On or Off?
Relative measurement is turned off.
As much info as possible is needed for R&D to replicate faults/bugs and initiate fixes.
Just trying to squeeze a little more from you. ;)
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I see two strange things on my SDM3055:
1) When measuring VDC in slow mode I get different values when the filter is on or off. E.g. with the input shorted, I measure a value of 0.000 mV when the filter is off, and a value of 0.007 mV when the filter is active. I checked using the histogram display and see two sets of values, one clustered around 0.000 mV when the filter is off and another set around 0.007 mV when the filter is on.
When this is obsevered do you have the Relative measurements setting On or Off?
Relative measurement is turned off.
As much info as possible is needed for R&D to replicate faults/bugs and initiate fixes.
Just trying to squeeze a little more from you. ;)
To show what I found I've attached a screenshot of the effect. It shows the data gathered first with the filter off and then with the filter on. No other changes where made to the settings of the SDM3055 or the hardware setup. The data around 0 .000 mV was captured with the filter off, the data around 0.007 mV with the filter off.
To eliminate noise I've used a 4 mm to BNC converter with a 50 Ohm BNC terminator attached.
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I see two strange things on my SDM3055:
1) When measuring VDC in slow mode I get different values when the filter is on or off. E.g. with the input shorted, I measure a value of 0.000 mV when the filter is off, and a value of 0.007 mV when the filter is active. I checked using the histogram display and see two sets of values, one clustered around 0.000 mV when the filter is off and another set around 0.007 mV when the filter is on.
When this is obsevered do you have the Relative measurements setting On or Off?
Relative measurement is turned off.
As much info as possible is needed for R&D to replicate faults/bugs and initiate fixes.
Just trying to squeeze a little more from you. ;)
To show what I found I've attached a screenshot of the effect. It shows the data gathered first with the filter off and then with the filter on. No other changes where made to the settings of the SDM3055 or the hardware setup. The data around 0 .000 mV was captured with the filter off, the data around 0.007 mV with the filter off.
To eliminate noise I've used a 4 mm to BNC converter with a 50 Ohm BNC terminator attached.
Still inside specifications. ;) (this do not mean it is ok)
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1) When measuring VDC in slow mode I get different values when the filter is on or off. E.g. with the input shorted, I measure a value of 0.000 mV when the filter is off, and a value of 0.007 mV when the filter is active. I checked using the histogram display and see two sets of values, one clustered around 0.000 mV when the filter is off and another set around 0.007 mV when the filter is on.
Has anyone else seen these effects on their units?
I get the exact opposite. Probes shorted: with the filter off, 6uV, with the filter on, 0V. When feeding a 2Vrms AC signal with 0dcV offset, I get the normal noise of the meter with the filter off. But with the filter on I get 6-7mV. Doesn't really make much sense.
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1) When measuring VDC in slow mode I get different values when the filter is on or off. E.g. with the input shorted, I measure a value of 0.000 mV when the filter is off, and a value of 0.007 mV when the filter is active. I checked using the histogram display and see two sets of values, one clustered around 0.000 mV when the filter is off and another set around 0.007 mV when the filter is on.
Has anyone else seen these effects on their units?
I get the exact opposite. Probes shorted: with the filter off, 6uV, with the filter on, 0V. When feeding a 2Vrms AC signal with 0dcV offset, I get the normal noise of the meter with the filter off. But with the filter on I get 6-7mV. Doesn't really make much sense.
Don't you mean uV?
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Don't you mean uV?
Nope.
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Continuity test
I wanted to quantify the continuity test of the SDM3055 with the lastest 15R1 firmware.
Previously I too thought performance was slow and this was confirmed in Sharihars review but it has improved with this latest firmware.
So how to do this?
A recent thread by member joeqsmith shows IMHO a very good method:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-an-arb-to-test-meter's-continuity-feature/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-an-arb-to-test-meter's-continuity-feature/)
Results:
Continuity triggering stable to 15 Hz. (0-4V pk squarewave 50% duty)
Minimum pulse width reliably triggered is 15 ms. (@ 1Hz rate)
Equipment used:
Siglent SDG1010, output set to 50 Ohms impedence.
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You might also be able to use a AWG to gauge what the display update rate is more accurately by configuring either a ramp with increasing amplitude or even a basic high low square wave, the values don't really matter it's the meters ability to display the transition that counts.
Obviously some meters can output a reading much faster to PC than they can display it, but again as a reliable and accurate tool to calculate the update rate an AWG and perhaps in conjunction a scope to document these figures is a better solution to some video content producers simply declaring that "I think it's about one or two a second but it's a bit hard to tell'.
Also as most cameras will only do 25 or 30 and some better units 50 or 60 frames per second so recording of the meters display update rate during this type of reproducible test is something that I have not seen yet by people doing reviews on equipment and for sure as some equipment is so ridiculously fast that even some high speed cameras may struggle to get a grip.
Just some thoughts.
Muttley
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You might also be able to use a AWG to gauge what the display update rate is more accurately by configuring either a ramp with increasing amplitude or even a basic high low square wave, the values don't really matter it's the meters ability to display the transition that counts.
Muttley
Muttley, experimentation with a 4V sawtooth (ramp) waveform did not yield any conclusive results on display update rate. However it did confirm measurement speed when frequency was adjusted until a stable DCV reading was observed. As outlined in the manual 5/s in slow, 50/s in middle mode, but over 250 Hz was needed to obtain a stable reading in fast mode when it's stated the rate is 150/s.
Display update rate will have to be given more thought unless you have some more of your brainwaves. :scared:
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Continuity test
Results:
Continuity triggering stable to 15 Hz. (0-4V pk squarewave 50% duty)
Minimum pulse width reliably triggered is 15 ms. (@ 1Hz rate)
I noticed that on my unit (with the 15R1 firmware) the continuity test was very slow. However, when I switched off the filter in VDC-mode the continuity mode reacts fast again. So it seems the filter in VDC-mode influences the speed in other modes. I assume that during your tests the filter was off.
I would prefer that in a next firmware version, the filter is automatically switched off when in continuity mode.
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Continuity test
Results:
Continuity triggering stable to 15 Hz. (0-4V pk squarewave 50% duty)
Minimum pulse width reliably triggered is 15 ms. (@ 1Hz rate)
I noticed that on my unit (with the 15R1 firmware) the continuity test was very slow. However, when I switched off the filter in VDC-mode the continuity mode reacts fast again. So it seems the filter in VDC-mode influences the speed in other modes. I assume that during your tests the filter was off.
I would prefer that in a next firmware version, the filter is automatically switched off when in continuity mode.
Correct.
Yes I've noticed some filer on/off dependencies too. You are quite right, why would any filter be needed in continiuty tests. :-//
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Page 96 of the SDM3055 User Manual talks about Application of the Analog Filter and specifies the introduced error.
Is the reading of 0.007mV within spec?
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Page 96 of the SDM3055 User Manual talks about Application of the Analog Filter and specifies the introduced error.
I think you are right, this describes the effect I'm seeing! So it is probably not a digital software filter that is used, but an analog filter in hardware that is activated.
I checked the manual for the other effect I mentioned (jump in measured temperature, see my earlier post). The manual states the dmm measures the cold junction temperature. Could it be that this is measured only once when entering temperature mode? So when you measure for a longer time and the cold junction temperature changes, the dmm doesn't compensate for it while being in the temperature mode. Only when you leave the mode and re-enter it, the cold junction compensation is done again.
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Is the reading of 0.007mV within spec?
Yes.
Most low VDC range is 200mV
Specifications: Accuracy: +/- 0.015% from reading + 0.004% from range.
If reading (input V) is zero. It can still display +/- 8uV (0.008mV)
(also there is specs for temp and temp coefficient)
If range is 200mV DC and input voltage is 100mV exactly it may display between 99.977 and 100.023 and it is as specified (if cal temp have been +23 and it is now in +18 to +28 temp and if it have been least half hour on.)
Also it need note that measurement need follow example these "thumb of rules" and something more in this manual for Basic Fundamentals of measurements.
http://www.keithley.com/knowledgecenter/knowledgecenter_pdf/LowLevMsHandbk.pdf (http://www.keithley.com/knowledgecenter/knowledgecenter_pdf/LowLevMsHandbk.pdf)
Look example page 3-3 about avoiding Thermoelectric EMFs as error source for low voltage measurements.
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Page 96 of the SDM3055 User Manual talks about Application of the Analog Filter and specifies the introduced error.
I think you are right, this describes the effect I'm seeing! So it is probably not a digital software filter that is used, but an analog filter in hardware that is activated.
I checked the manual for the other effect I mentioned (jump in measured temperature, see my earlier post). The manual states the dmm measures the cold junction temperature. Could it be that this is measured only once when entering temperature mode? So when you measure for a longer time and the cold junction temperature changes, the dmm doesn't compensate for it while being in the temperature mode. Only when you leave the mode and re-enter it, the cold junction compensation is done again.
Hi Eric.
Your assumptions were indeed correct.
The SDM3055 does use an analog filter that engages when the unit is powered up. The filter can improve the measurement accuracy when measuring DC voltage which has some ripple on it. We calibrate the DMM when the filter is turned off so there is a small error when the filter is turned on. You can, of course, use the Relative function to null this small offset out of you measurement.
On your thermocouple question, we do use a TI IC to measure the ambient (cold junction) temperature and use this value to compensate the measured temperature value. The 3055 continues to look up the cold-junction value throughout the Temperature measurement. We are still looking into this problem to find the reason for the offset but it is proving to be difficult for us to reproduce in our lab. We will continue to work at it in order to solve this offset problem.
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On your thermocouple question, we do use a TI IC to measure the ambient (cold junction) temperature and use this value to compensate the measured temperature value. The 3055 continues to look up the cold-junction value throughout the Temperature measurement. We are still looking into this problem to find the reason for the offset but it is proving to be difficult for us to reproduce in our lab. We will continue to work at it in order to solve this offset problem.
If I can provide any information to help you to reproduce the problem please let me know.
I just measure the temperature for 10+ minutes, then switch to VDC mode and immdiately back to temperature mode. If I measure the temperature for a few hours, I've seen the temperarture jump for as much as 3 deg C. The ambient room temperarture may have changed an equal amount in that time (but I'm not sure of that).
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I've checked some values for the temperature jump effect. I recorded the temperature together with the voltage.
After powering up the unit, I get after 5 minutes a temperature value of 15.8 deg C (-5.8 uV) after switching to VDC and back to temperature I get a value of 16.4 deg C (-5.1 uV).
After another 10 minutes, I get a temperature value of 14.4 deg C (-81.6 uV) after switching to VDC and back to temperature I get a value of 16.0 deg C (-78.4 uV).
So it seems the measured voltage is stable (and correct), but the corresponding temperature has an offset. During the measurement the room temperature was stable at about 16 deg C (checked with another thermometer).
I hope this might help in diagnosing the problem...
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Our dear friend Martin Lorton now has a third video posted on the Siglent SDM-3055 with the new faster firmware.
I'm off to watch it..... :popcorn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtb3qUtgxCI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtb3qUtgxCI)
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Hi Everyone,
I have been comparing the SDM-3055 to my Agilent 34461A and noticed that the trend chart is not updating the display correctly when viewing ALL trend data. Attached are some photos of both units. I noticed this first with the R13 firmware. I also updated to the latest firmware version (15R1) and the bug is still present. The firmware is getting more stable, but it looks like there are still a few more major bugs to be squashed.
Has anyone else observed this issue?
I can confirm that each individual sample agrees to within approximately 0.1 mV, it just appears that the routine updating the display is not working correctly.
Cheers,
Al
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Welcome to the forum.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll make sure Siglent is informed.
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Thanks tautech ... I have been lurking on the forums for years, but never got around to registering or posting stuff.
Following up on the trend chart issue, I also saved the captured data to a USB stick and verified that the data collected is correct, so the bug is isolated to the graph updating routine.
I did notice another issue, this time with the acquisition delay. If you change it to manual mode and try to set the delay to 10 s by changing the unit from us to ms and then to S, it does not work - the value is not altered or applied (you can watch the trigger indicator at the top of the display). However, if you stay on the us scale and just keep increasing the number to 1000 us, then 100 000 us, it automatically changes units and applies the delay correctly. The next problem is that if you try to set the unit prefix back to say ms, it does not work. The range is stuck in seconds and a reboot is necessary to reset the state.
Sorry if the description is a bit convoluted, but even taking photos does not really help.
Cheers,
Al
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I have been comparing the SDM-3055 to my Agilent 34461A and noticed that the trend chart is not updating the display correctly when viewing ALL trend data. Attached are some photos of both units. I noticed this first with the R13 firmware. I also updated to the latest firmware version (15R1) and the bug is still present. The firmware is getting more stable, but it looks like there are still a few more major bugs to be squashed.
Has anyone else observed this issue?
Yep, I see the same issue.
I checked using a function generator that outputs a ramp with a period of 15 minutes. On the trend chart I see, after a few hours, that the display "squeezes" the data. The oldest data (on the left) is stretched, while the newest data (on the right) is compressed.
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Thanks guys :-+ keep the info coming.
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Hi Everyone,
I have been comparing the SDM-3055 to my Agilent 34461A and noticed that the trend chart is not updating the display correctly when viewing ALL trend data. Attached are some photos of both units. I noticed this first with the R13 firmware. I also updated to the latest firmware version (15R1) and the bug is still present. The firmware is getting more stable, but it looks like there are still a few more major bugs to be squashed.
Has anyone else observed this issue?
I can confirm that each individual sample agrees to within approximately 0.1 mV, it just appears that the routine updating the display is not working correctly.
Cheers,
Al
Hello Al.
Thank you for reporting this.
Engineering is aware of the issue and i am told they are testing for a solution now. If I hear anything soon I will let you know. Otherwise, you might check our FW versions from time to time.
Steve
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Thanks tautech ... I have been lurking on the forums for years, but never got around to registering or posting stuff.
Following up on the trend chart issue, I also saved the captured data to a USB stick and verified that the data collected is correct, so the bug is isolated to the graph updating routine.
I did notice another issue, this time with the acquisition delay. If you change it to manual mode and try to set the delay to 10 s by changing the unit from us to ms and then to S, it does not work - the value is not altered or applied (you can watch the trigger indicator at the top of the display). However, if you stay on the us scale and just keep increasing the number to 1000 us, then 100 000 us, it automatically changes units and applies the delay correctly. The next problem is that if you try to set the unit prefix back to say ms, it does not work. The range is stuck in seconds and a reboot is necessary to reset the state.
Sorry if the description is a bit convoluted, but even taking photos does not really help.
Cheers,
Al
I'll report this as well.
Thanks
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For those that haven't seen it yet Martin Lorton has a follow up video in regards to the SDM-3055 firmware versions P15R1 and P15R2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRZgGPQZZkE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRZgGPQZZkE)
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First a big thanks to Siglent as they fixed my reported problem were the measuring temperature jumped when switching between DCV and temperature. In a new release 15 R2 this problem is fixed :)
It did not change another effect I see during temperature measurement. See attached screen shot. The measurered value jumpes in 0.5 deg steps up and down before settling on the new value. I suspect it might not be a problem but the effect of the cold junction compensation which might be done in 0.5 deg steps. It is within spec but it looks strange.
What do you think?
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Hmmm, as I interpret Martin Lortons video when the filter is activated a capacitor is connected to the input terminals? Thus loading the measured voltage with a substantial capacitance? That sounds really crusty, I hope I got this wrong.
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Just received my Siglent SDM3055 yesterday. I immediately updated the firmware to the latest (1.01.01.15R1). I left the unit in continuity mode when I shut it down last night. This morning when I turned it on it went to beeping like crazy with random low resistance readings on the screen. I assumed the leads just happened to be touching but they were not. I unplugged the leads and it still kept beeping. I shut it off and then back on. It came up in DC volts and everything seemed normal. Tried to duplicate and it didn't have the issue. Tried it again and sure enough the problem is back. As I type it is going crazy. I will record a short video. Has anyone else seen this? Can anyone else check there unit for this behaviour?
Elrod
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Just received my Siglent SDM3055 yesterday. I immediately updated the firmware to the latest (1.01.01.15R1). I left the unit in continuity mode when I shut it down last night. This morning when I turned it on it went to beeping like crazy with random low resistance readings on the screen. I assumed the leads just happened to be touching but they were not. I unplugged the leads and it still kept beeping. I shut it off and then back on. It came up in DC volts and everything seemed normal. Tried to duplicate and it didn't have the issue. Tried it again and sure enough the problem is back. As I type it is going crazy. I will record a short video. Has anyone else seen this? Can anyone else check there unit for this behaviour?
Elrod
Most unusual. :o
Can you confirm FW 15R1 is shown in the UI as the installed FW?
I'll also point Siglent to your post.
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Has anyone else seen this? Can anyone else check there unit for this behaviour?
Elrod
I checked my meter and saw the same behaviour. I used firmware 15R2, but also saw it with older versions.
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Has anyone else seen this? Can anyone else check there unit for this behaviour?
Elrod
I checked my meter and saw the same behaviour. I used firmware 15R2, but also saw it with older versions.
Siglent informs me this may be another bug and they are fixing it ATM.
Eric, Where did you get 15R2, I could not find a download link for it?
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Eric, Where did you get 15R2, I could not find a download link for it?
I got it directly from Siglent as a pre release test for the fix they made in measuring the tempearure. They said it will be available from their site...
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Tautech I can confirm my version is 15R1.
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Anyone have any news on when an updated firmware might be released for the SDM3055? The last update was September I believe.
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Anyone have any news on when an updated firmware might be released for the SDM3055? The last update was September I believe.
Looking through my emails of a couple of weeks ago, Jexy from Siglent said ~ 1 month, so hopefully before Xmas.
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I don't see the similarity
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=185200;image)
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There is a fellow back on page one that does..... ::)
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I don't see the similarity
I'm shocked, that Keysight imitate other gear in a such bluntly way :-DD
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There is a fellow back on page one that does..... ::)
:-DD
One's a 6 1/2 digit meter and obviously trying to gain advantage with a take off of the Siglent name. :)
Couldn't stand the heat and changed their name to Key...something I heard.
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They missed the 3A input :)
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The Siglent is not a truevolt, maybe a fake one. :-DD :-DD
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Also a side by side board comparison will show something.
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Also a side by side board comparison will show something.
Pics and links to do this are available earlier in this thread in this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615)
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I was on the fence between a used 34401a and the SDM3055. I really wanted a 34461a but I could not find a used one and spending >1K was not going to happen as this is just a hobby for me. I dont need 6.5 digits or .0035% DC accuracy but that screen and the math functions are a real selling point. After seeing how Siglent has been actively addressing the firmware bugs and making improvements (especially to the display speed), I put my order in yesterday. I also want to thank those who have taken the time to do video reviews and updates as I found them very helpful and also directly responsible for making up my mind. Keep up the good work!
Damon
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Welcome to the forum.
It would be good if you could post your findings once you have it for others to see, good or bad it doesn't matter, feedback is how products are improved.
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I cant remember if I have asked these questions before on the forum but I do know that I did ask them at one point.
Does anybody know whether the user software applies a time stamp to logged events, the unit itself does not have a real time clock but does the software incorporate and apply one to recordings, also the user manual refers to 1,000 logged events yet the remote manual makes reference to 10,000 and are these saved in memory after a restart or lost for good.
Thanks
Edit: I found this post in reference to time stamps.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3055-multimeter-scpi-commands-and-python/msg733179/#msg733179 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3055-multimeter-scpi-commands-and-python/msg733179/#msg733179)
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UPS just showed up with my new meter (after getting lost for a few days). Question, Should the meter rattle, like there's a match box hot wheels car surprise inside the box? :palm:
First call to the vendor, they want to make a claim with UPS, but the boxes look decent. I suspect from the sounds the voltage reference screw and shield worked its way loose and is flopping around. It would have been nice if the vendor (us based vendor) would have immediately issued a call tag and new meter next day air. I let the rep hear the rattle, took video and photos of the still factory wrapped box clunking. May be a simple fix, but who knows if any other components have been damaged internally. I prefer not to break any seals and just get a new one.
Video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3duzHetR24 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3duzHetR24)
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UPS just showed up with my new meter (after getting lost for a few days). Question, Should the meter rattle, like there's a match box hot wheels car surprise inside the box? :palm:
First call to the vendor, they want to make a claim with UPS, but the boxes look decent. I suspect from the sounds the voltage reference screw and shield worked its way loose and is flopping around. It would have been nice if the vendor (us based vendor) would have immediately issued a call tag and new meter next day air. I let the rep hear the rattle, took video and photos of the still factory wrapped box clunking. May be a simple fix, but who knows if any other components have been damaged internally. I prefer not to break any seals and just get a new one.
Shite, that's not on. :rant:
For the life of me I can't think what that might be other than a lead that has come off. :-//
Checked my images in Reply #15 for clues, and maybe it's the Ali cover on the input stages on the main PCB.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615)
If it is, DON'T power it up.
After watching the vid, yep sounds like that Ali cover.
I'll link your post to Siglent America.
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Yeah, I suspect its the aluminum cover, its got that kind of sound to it. No, I'm not even going to unwrap it. Who knows what it been beating up internally. Id just like a replacement.
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Yeah, I suspect its the aluminum cover, its got that kind of sound to it. No, I'm not even going to unwrap it. Who knows what it been beating up internally. Id just like a replacement.
Not sure if Steve will reply to this tonight, but at least he knows about it now and should monitor how his vendor makes good for you.
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That's a shocker..... :o
You are damned lucky that it didn't simply wedge itself in a position so as not to make a rattle and not be discovered until power up.... :phew:
Don't turn it on, shake the shit out of it..... :rant:
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I called back the vendor to infer it was not damaged in shipping, rather its a defective unit. The CS Rep called Steve but there was no answer, she was going to email him and ask how to best proceed. Im sure it will be resolved, I'm Just a bit disappointed, you know, like a kid at Christmas only to find out its not gift he has been wishing for.
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That's a shocker..... :o
You are damned lucky that it didn't simply wedge itself in a position so as not to make a rattle and not be discovered until power up.... :phew:
Don't turn it on, shake the shit out of it..... :rant:
What's worse Pete, this is a terrible first impression. :scared:
Answers must be found as to why this occurred. QA looks like they missed this. |O
I called back the vendor to infer it was not damaged in shipping, rather its a defective unit. The CS Rep called Steve but there was no answer, she was going to email him and ask how to best proceed. Im sure it will be resolved, I'm Just a bit disappointed, you know, like a kid at Christmas only to find out its not gift he has been wishing for.
Steve will have finished for the day now, it's after 6 pm in Ohio.
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I called back the vendor to infer it was not damaged in shipping, rather its a defective unit. The CS Rep called Steve but there was no answer, she was going to email him and ask how to best proceed. Im sure it will be resolved, I'm Just a bit disappointed, you know, like a kid at Christmas only to find out its not gift he has been wishing for.
Good morning,
Our policy at Siglent America is that if a unit arrives with a problem (not related to shipping damage) or develops one within the first 30 days then the distributor should send the customer a replacement unit. No one called or emailed me about this.
Please go back to your distributor and tell them this - they should know this already and have them call me directly. If they do not take care of you properly then please contact me directly at 877.515.5551 and I will see that you are taken care of.
I will also forward this email to the distributor myself.
Thank you.
Steve
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Thank you Steve! I had the name wrong, it was Scott the CS rep tried to contact. I will contact the CS Rep this morning again. As much as I'd like to place the blame on UPS, it does not appear to be shipping damage.
Edit: Update,
The vendor sent me a UPS call tag and I should have a new replacement mid next week.
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Not an exact copy or clone, but can you at least see the inspiration for the Siglent team?
I was drooling on the Agilent meter when you reviewed it, however at the $1000+ for my "hobby"- as my wife views it -.... ahhh....
:scared: the wife would have made a "single trigger" shot for my balls. It was much easy to budget and sell the wife on the SDM3055.
It also seem to me; that I am one of the few that actual love working with this meter. Yes its true... its still not an Aglient which has years of refinement in building test equipment.
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I know Dave had been debating doing a tear down on his SDM3055 since there where several others already. He posted one today;
http://www.eevblog.com/2015/12/12/eevblog-829-siglent-sdm3055-bench-multimeter-teardown/ (http://www.eevblog.com/2015/12/12/eevblog-829-siglent-sdm3055-bench-multimeter-teardown/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nqSFYVKnP4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nqSFYVKnP4)
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Had a chance to play with the replacement meter last night and this morning. Came with 11r1 FW, updated it to 15r1 first thing. Initial impressions are quite good, but I wish I could adjust the display contrast some. Mine seems too bright and the black background is a bit washed out and grayish. Good visibility at side viewing angles however.
Some other initial thoughts;
- The bar-graph is too slow and slows down the display readout when active, so this function is not really useful as is. I like really fast bar meters to emulate an analog needle.
- The fast/med/slow display rate is about perfect for me with the 15R1 FW (as long as the bar-graph is disabled, see above)
- The Ethernet icon should disappear if your disable the LAN in the I/O settings.
- Love the trend chart and histogram, will need to play this this more today.
- Very good overall feel/look, great buttons. Intuitive layout and UI (Agilent did a good job here).
- DC accuracy is good, well within spec but reads ever so slightly low (~20uV on the 20V scale, or 2 counts out) compared to my voltage ref and Fluke 189 (which agrees with my voltage ref).
AD584LH Ref SDM3055
2.49986 2.4997
5.00151 5.0013
7.50077 7.500[56]
10.00201 10.0018
At 20deg C, meter powered on overnight.
Only had a short time to play with it, will update if I find anything else later. So far I like it.
*** Edit: Update ***
I take back what I said about the washed out and grayish display, turns out its not due to too much brightness or lack of contrast. On the standard numeric display, the background is a dark gray and not black. On the trend chart the background is black and you can see the dark gray bordering the trend chart box.
The slight error in DC accuracy was due to the temperature drift in my reference. I played with cooling and warming the reference and can see the drift plain as day on the trend chart. Once at the cal temp, the meter is spot on.
I have not tested the continuity speed on older FW, but on 15R1 the continuity beep is very fast. I suspect the continuity speed was also improved with the display speed on the new FW.
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Had a chance to play with the replacement meter last night and this morning. Came with 11r1 FW, updated it to 15r1 first thing. Initial impressions are quite good, but I wish I could adjust the display contrast some. Mine seems too bright and the black background is a bit washed out and grayish. Good visibility at side viewing angles however.
Some other initial thoughts;
- The bar-graph is too slow and slows down the display readout when active, so this function is not really useful as is. I like really fast bar meters to emulate an analog needle.
- The fast/med/slow display rate is about perfect for me with the 15R1 FW (as long as the bar-graph is disabled, see above)
- The Ethernet icon should disappear if your disable the LAN in the I/O settings.
- Love the trend chart and histogram, will need to play this this more today.
- Very good overall feel/look, great buttons. Intuitive layout and UI (Agilent did a good job here).
- DC accuracy is good, well within spec but reads ever so slightly low (~20uV on the 20V scale, or 2 counts out) compared to my voltage ref and Fluke 189 (which agrees with my voltage ref).
AD584LH Ref SDM3055
2.49986 2.4997
5.00151 5.0013
7.50077 7.500[56]
10.00201 10.0018
At 20deg C, meter powered on overnight.
Only had a short time to play with it, will update if I find anything else later. So far I like it.
Good to hear you got the replacement unit quickly.
Re the LAN indicator.
Yes, it's on all the time.
Did you see part of it shows red but when connected to a LAN this indicator then assumes just one colour?
This active LAN indicator is a recent addition to all Siglent LAN capable products.
Now, at a glance one can identify if you have an active LAN connection or not, and one might wonder why you'd want to turn off ALL indication of the instrument's LAN connection state?
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Im fine with the red x on the LAN icon if the LAN is enabled and there is no link. What I would prefer is the LAN icon to disappear from the screen (like the USB icon does) if the LAN is disabled in the I/O setting.
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Very nice and honest preliminary review kj7e and very much appreciated.... :-+
I wanted a stand alone graphing meter mainly for extended duration logging and as history shows I have been more than tempted on a number of occasions to swing towards the SDM-3055, glad now that I waited until others had established it's place in the pecking order and I'm still in need of a mains powered bench unit for field work.
To fill the void I have a 289 on the way and should have it early this coming week, l love the 189s and will never part with these, just a great meter.
Keep the information coming If you can as we are yet to see how these go over time, unfortunately with the exchange rate down here they are no longer a cheap alternative meter for a hobbyist and professionals that can claim them as part of the business generally dont mind spending a bit more for established equipment.
Many thanks and seasons greetings.
Muttley
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Im fine with the red x on the LAN icon if the LAN is enabled and there is no link. What I would prefer is the LAN icon to disappear from the screen (like the USB icon does) if the LAN is disabled in the I/O setting.
I get that, yes the USB icon only shows when a connection is made BUT only when a memory stick is connected to the front panel USB, not for rear panel USB to PC connections.
Should this be changed to indicate BOTH front AND rear USB connection?
AFAIK you're the first (on EEVblog) to have asked for this and I do understand everyone each have their preferences for how they like their instrument to behave.
I do see your point however, there is a LAN ON/OFF toggle in the UI and when OFF one might expect the LAN indicator to disappear.
Anyway..... Noted. Will forward to Siglent.
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Thanks Muttley, I also have a 289, its a few years newer than my 189 but the 189 seems to have drifted less than the 289. Both killer handheld DMMs for sure. I have a UNI-T un171b on order as well, just wants something not as valuable to toss around. I had a HP 34401a 10 years ago, paid $250 for it and it was like new (surplus Gov contract deal). Like a fool I sold it when I moved to a new job and state. I dont need a 6.5 digit .0035% DMM, and its just a hobby for me, so the SDM3055 should work out well.
I've warmed my room up a few deg, it seems the meter and voltage ref are now within one digit, cant ask for much more than that. One thing I forgot to mention above, the fan is not a bother at all, very quiet.
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Im fine with the red x on the LAN icon if the LAN is enabled and there is no link. What I would prefer is the LAN icon to disappear from the screen (like the USB icon does) if the LAN is disabled in the I/O setting.
I get that, yes the USB icon only shows when a connection is made BUT only when a memory stick is connected to the front panel USB, not for rear panel USB to PC connections.
Should this be changed to indicate BOTH front AND rear USB connection?
AFAIK you're the first (on EEVblog) to have asked for this and I do understand everyone each have their preferences for how they like their instrument to behave.
I do see your point however, there is a LAN ON/OFF toggle in the UI and when OFF one might expect the LAN indicator to disappear.
Anyway..... Noted. Will forward to Siglent.
Since the rear USB was intended for the GPIB dongle, I think the USB icon should only display with the front USB port. The LAN icon is not a big deal, just something I noticed and thought would be a nice touch up item.
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I thought that the GPIB dongle was an A/ front port interface and the B/ rear port was only for the pc, that was the indication given earlier in the thread.
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Im fine with the red x on the LAN icon if the LAN is enabled and there is no link. What I would prefer is the LAN icon to disappear from the screen (like the USB icon does) if the LAN is disabled in the I/O setting.
I get that, yes the USB icon only shows when a connection is made BUT only when a memory stick is connected to the front panel USB, not for rear panel USB to PC connections.
Should this be changed to indicate BOTH front AND rear USB connection?
AFAIK you're the first (on EEVblog) to have asked for this and I do understand everyone each have their preferences for how they like their instrument to behave.
I do see your point however, there is a LAN ON/OFF toggle in the UI and when OFF one might expect the LAN indicator to disappear.
Anyway..... Noted. Will forward to Siglent.
Since the rear USB was intended for the GPIB dongle, I think the USB icon should only display with the front USB port. Its not a big deal, just something I noticed and thought would be a nice touch up item.
Not only GPIB.
EasyDMM software can be used via LAN and USB connection and instrument control can be achieved with EasyDMM using either connection. If FW was to be modified as you suggest I see no reason why a rear USB connection indication could not be added too.
Do you not agree?
I thought that the GPIB dongle was an A/ front port interface and the B/ rear port was only for the pc, that was the indication given earlier in the thread.
Quite right Pete, just checked my GPIB dongle, it has a tethered USB A cable and therefore must be used in the front panel USB.
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^ Sounds fair enough to me.
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Thanks tautech, that picture of the dongle on the Siglent site which is linked earlier in the thread does not show an intergrated cable affixed and gives the impression that the dongle has either an A or B USB receptacle.
I always imagined that it was exactly the same as the Keysight GPIB dongle.
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Thanks tautech, that picture of the dongle on the Siglent site which is linked earlier in the thread does not show an intergrated cable affixed and gives the impression that the dongle has either an A or B USB receptacle.
I always imagined that it was exactly the same as the Keysight GPIB dongle.
Quite so Muttley.
I've added to a report to Siglent that the GPIB adapter need have USB B type connection for use with the rear USB B so to keep the front panel USB A connection available for USB memory sticks and such.
Even if the GPIB adapter had an USB A socket instead of the USB A tethered cable then the supplied Siglent USB A to B universal cable could be used with the rear USB B connection and then free the front USB A connector while GPIB is in use.
Edit
Further explanation.
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Very nice! Even though the display is limited to 5.5 digits at 240,000 counts, you can extract extra resolution via the histogram.
Here I am measuring my 2.49986v reference, the display is limited 2.4998v but by setting the span and center for the histogram I'm able to see the average reading is really closer to 2.499831v. Of course this is well beyond the rated accuracy and stability of the internal reference, but that's still cool. I figure that's within .0012%.
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Just so people know and don't have to go searching for information these are the pictures below of both USB-GPIB interfaces since the release of the product excluding the onboard GPIB which was never released, the first Batronix picture appears to be the current and correct adapter provided with the SDM-3055A, the second image is from the Siglent US site and may not be correct as far as I can tell, the main Siglent site shows either no picture at all, conflicting images or the incorrect one depending on which route you take.
I don't know anything about their USB-GPIB interfaces for the scopes, it could be either one.
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Just so people know and don't have to go searching for information these are the pictures below of both USB-GPIB interfaces since the release of the product excluding the onboard GPIB which was never released, the first Batronix picture is the current and correct adapter provided with the SDM-3055A, the second image is from the Siglent US site and is not correct as far as I can tell, the main Siglent site shows either no picture at all, conflicting images or the incorrect one depending on which route you take.
I don't know anything about their USB-GPIB interfaces for the scopes, it could be either one.
Thanks Muttley.
All Siglent products that are GPIB capable use this same GPIB adapter, it is an Accessory for most products although the SDM3055 range are the only Siglent products at this time offered with or without it: 3055S or 3055A.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=403&id=1369&tid=1&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=403&id=1369&tid=1&T=2)
RRP is US$155 + taxes if any.
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Very nice! Even though the display is limited to 5.5 digits at 240,000 counts, you can extract extra resolution via the histogram.
Here I am measuring my 2.49986v reference, the display is limited 2.4998v but by setting the span and center for the histogram I'm able to see the average reading is really closer to 2.499831v. Of course this is well beyond the rated accuracy and stability of the internal reference, but that's still cool. I figure that's within .0012%.
That is cool; can you extract more precision via LAN/SCPI commands?
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^ Alank2, Im not sure.
Update to my first impressions found here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg824341/#msg824341 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg824341/#msg824341)
I take back what I said about the washed out and grayish display, turns out its not due to too much brightness or lack of contrast. On the standard numeric display, the background is a dark gray and not black. On the trend chart the background is black and you can see the dark gray bordering the trend chart box.
The slight (but very well with in spec) error in DC accuracy was due to the temperature drift in my reference. I played with cooling and warming the reference and can see the drift plain as day on the trend chart. Once at the cal temp, the meter is spot on.
I have not tested the continuity speed on older FW, but on 15R1 the continuity beep is very fast. I suspect the continuity speed was also improved with the display speed on the new FW.
Feature request, it would be handy to have a way to quickly zero out the highlighted digits when adjusting settings such as the span or center voltages rather than having to use the up and down. Maybe by pressing the center OK button would set the highlighted digit to zero.
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New DMMCheck Plus just showed up in the mail today :-+
DMMCheck SDM3055
VDC 5.0000 4.99998
VAC 4.999 4.9991
Hz 100.004800 100.00, 9.9995ms (100.00500Hz)
mAAC 1.0003 0.9997
mADC 1.0003 1.00023
Ohm 99.981 99.975
Ohm 999.79 999.75
kOhm 10.0008 10.0003
kOhm 100.034 100.038
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I was reading where DR. Frank was doing some power on stability/warm-up time testes on the Keysight 34465a and 34470a, so I though I do a quick test on the SDM3055 (although not nearly as accurate as DR. Frank's). Using the 5v DMMCheck Plus reference, powered on for several hours at 23deg C, I powered on the SDM3055 and immediately switched to the trend chart with a manual vertical. Here is the trend after 30min, you can see it SDM3055 settled down in about 6 min and only drifted about 25uV. Span = 200uV full scale.
Start up = 5.000030v
After 6min = 5.000005v
After 38min = 5.000005v
I noticed from early on, the MAX6325C reference has a very good TC.
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Has anyone heard anything about another firmware update for the SDM3055? It's been quite a while.
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Has anyone heard anything about another firmware update for the SDM3055? It's been quite a while.
Yes, last one was 2015-09-29 and the next one will be due soon. Do you have any specific problems you are needing fixed?
The Siglent FW team are on Chinese New Year break ATM and are due back next week so we might know if there's been progress soon.
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The specific issue is placing the meter in Continuity mode and then shutting it down. When I turn it back on it will go crazy beeping and clicking with random digits on display.
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The specific issue is placing the meter in Continuity mode and then shutting it down. When I turn it back on it will go crazy beeping and clicking with random digits on display.
Yes, confirmed on my demo unit.
FW 15R1 with power on set to "Last".
Power on set to "Factory" does not replicate this bug.
Reported to Siglent.
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The specific issue is placing the meter in Continuity mode and then shutting it down. When I turn it back on it will go crazy beeping and clicking with random digits on display.
I'm told by Siglent this issue has been resolved in the Beta of the next FW, so hopefully not too much longer to wait guys.
I'll let you all know when it's released or keep an eye out for it on the the Siglent FW page:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
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See member mojoe's comments on the accuracy comparison between the 2 SDM3055 units that he owns:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/siglent-sdm3055-comparison/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/siglent-sdm3055-comparison/)
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Despite having looked at several video review on YouTube and read most of posting in this 3ad is still unclear to me if the actual display refresh rate in slow mode with maximum precision settings is 1/s or 5/s.
In addition, for dual reading mode like DCV & DCI, is 1/s the max refresh rate regardless the settings ?
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Despite having looked at several video review on YouTube and read most of posting in this 3ad is still unclear to me if the actual display refresh rate in slow mode with maximum precision settings is 1/s or 5/s.
In addition, for dual reading mode like DCV & DCI, is 1/s the max refresh rate regardless the settings ?
The display refresh rate was improved in a previous FW release after some criticism on reviews and ATM the trigger LED would seem to be flashing ~5/sec and the last significant digits appear to be updating at the same rate.(Slow refresh)
Dual readings remain the same; 1 range for 1s, then the other selected range for 1s, both of which are being updated at the user selected rate.
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The display refresh rate was improved in a previous FW release after some criticism on reviews and ATM the trigger LED would seem to be flashing ~5/sec and the last significant digits appear to be updating at the same rate.(Slow refresh)
Dual readings remain the same; 1 range for 1s, then the other selected range for 1s, both of which are being updated at the user selected rate.
Many thanks,
five per seconds could be considered fair enough but dual readings sequencing does not fit my need, i'll have to check if something else in the same price league, like the GW GDM-8351, is able to provide simultaneous readings for DCV & DCI.
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The display refresh rate was improved in a previous FW release after some criticism on reviews and ATM the trigger LED would seem to be flashing ~5/sec and the last significant digits appear to be updating at the same rate.(Slow refresh)
Dual readings remain the same; 1 range for 1s, then the other selected range for 1s, both of which are being updated at the user selected rate.
Many thanks,
five per seconds could be considered fair enough but dual readings sequencing does not fit my need, i'll have to check if something else in the same price league, like the GW GDM-8351, is able to provide simultaneous readings for DCV & DCI.
Regarding the GDM-8351:
"When the multimeter is used in dual measurement mode, both displays are updated from either a single measurement or from two separate measurements. If the primary and secondary measurement modes have the same range, rate and rely on the same fundamental measurement, then a single measurement is taken for both displays; such as ACV and frequency/period measurements. If the primary and secondary displays use different measurement functions, ranges or rates, then separate measurements will be taken for each display. For example, ACV and DCV measurements."
Interpret that how you will, but it sounds like you will be faced with similar scanning behavior.
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"When the multimeter is used in dual measurement mode, both displays are updated from either a single measurement or from two separate measurements. If the primary and secondary measurement modes have the same range, rate and rely on the same fundamental measurement, then a single measurement is taken for both displays; such as ACV and frequency/period measurements. If the primary and secondary displays use different measurement functions, ranges or rates, then separate measurements will be taken for each display. For example, ACV and DCV measurements."
Interpret that how you will, but it sounds like you will be faced with similar scanning behavior.
I read that user manual part several times but i have to admit i struggle to understand the meaning, especially if i consider this following text :
"After the secondary measurement function has been activated, the rate, range and measurement item can be edited for either the primary or secondary display. Note however, it is more practical to configure the first or second measurement items before activating dual measurement mode."
I'm looking for web review, but it would appear there are none.
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It doesn't make sense to add an extra ADC and input stage for the dual measurement so I'm pretty sure all DMM will switch/scan between inputs (current or volt) for dual measurements.
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"When the multimeter is used in dual measurement mode, both displays are updated from either a single measurement or from two separate measurements. If the primary and secondary measurement modes have the same range, rate and rely on the same fundamental measurement, then a single measurement is taken for both displays; such as ACV and frequency/period measurements. If the primary and secondary displays use different measurement functions, ranges or rates, then separate measurements will be taken for each display. For example, ACV and DCV measurements."
Interpret that how you will, but it sounds like you will be faced with similar scanning behavior.
I read that user manual part several times but i have to admit i struggle to understand the meaning, especially if i consider this following text :
"After the secondary measurement function has been activated, the rate, range and measurement item can be edited for either the primary or secondary display. Note however, it is more practical to configure the first or second measurement items before activating dual measurement mode."
I'm looking for web review, but it would appear there are none.
Sounds just like how the Siglent does it.
With the SDM3055, the secondary display/measurement in dual mode is much smaller than the primary measurement and selection of the primary measurement as the measurement of "most interest" is the way to get the most from the UI.
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It doesn't make sense to add an extra ADC and input stage for the dual measurement so I'm pretty sure all DMM will switch/scan between inputs (current or volt) for dual measurements.
I was not expecting a doubled ADC section but a sample&hold stage to allow at least DCV & DCI simultaneous sampling (with differed conversion, of course) to maintain measures phase, but it seems an exclusive land for power analyzer.
Of course two separate externally triggered DMM could be the solution but i'm trying to keep the budget within half a grand.
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It doesn't make sense to add an extra ADC and input stage for the dual measurement so I'm pretty sure all DMM will switch/scan between inputs (current or volt) for dual measurements.
I was not expecting a doubled ADC section but a sample&hold stage to allow at least DCV & DCI simultaneous sampling (with differed conversion, of course) to maintain measures phase, but it seems an exclusive land for power analyzer.
Of course two separate externally triggered DMM could be the solution but i'm trying to keep the budget within half a grand.
Get a mooshimeter and upgrade the input stage? :popcorn:
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Get a mooshimeter and upgrade the input stage? :popcorn:
Very nice toy, for US price and availability it would worth an assessment for hobby works, but now i'm looking for a certified instrument with USB/serial interface and prompt EU sourcing.
I will sure keep in account for some other task, many thanks for the tip.
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Hmmm, as I interpret Martin Lortons video when the filter is activated a capacitor is connected to the input terminals? Thus loading the measured voltage with a substantial capacitance? That sounds really crusty, I hope I got this wrong.
I have a couple of questions about this matter :
1) does the "impedance perturbance" apply also for 100mV & 1V DCV high imp. mode (10Gohm) ?
2) which is the actual input capacitance with the HW filter turned on ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRZgGPQZZkE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRZgGPQZZkE) @ 07:30
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Hmmm, as I interpret Martin Lortons video when the filter is activated a capacitor is connected to the input terminals? Thus loading the measured voltage with a substantial capacitance? That sounds really crusty, I hope I got this wrong.
I have a couple of questions about this matter :
1) does the "impedance perturbance" apply also for 100mV & 1V DCV high imp. mode (10Gohm) ?
2) which is the actual input capacitance with the HW filter turned on ?
1. In DCV the ranges available for 10 G Ohm input impedance are 200 mV and 2 V.
In either range the meter settling time is improved with fast sampling and the input filter on to ~2 sec or better. All sampling speeds have similar settling times with the filter on and the highest being slightly fastest.
Without filtering for these 10G input ranges, the last significant digit takes ~2 seconds to stabilise for the medium speed sampling whereas in fast sampling the last 2 significant digits take ~2 seconds to stabilise.
2. 1.1nF measured while in all the above mentioned ranges, filter on or off.
(Fluke 15B)
The display refresh rate was improved in a previous FW release after some criticism on reviews and ATM the trigger LED would seem to be flashing ~5/sec and the last significant digits appear to be updating at the same rate.(Slow refresh)
Dual readings remain the same; 1 range for 1s, then the other selected range for 1s, both of which are being updated at the user selected rate.
Many thanks,
five per seconds could be considered fair enough but dual readings sequencing does not fit my need, i'll have to check if something else in the same price league, like the GW GDM-8351, is able to provide simultaneous readings for DCV & DCI.
I know this is a few days old but I'm not sure if you understood my comments re the sampling update rate.
5/s is Slow mode
50/s is middle mode
150/s is Fast mode
All user definable for any range.
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1.1nF measured while in all the above mentioned ranges, filter on or off.
I know this is a few days old but I'm not sure if you understood my comments re the sampling update rate.
5/s is Slow mode
50/s is middle mode
150/s is Fast mode
Hi Tautech,
thanks for the summary, your comments about sampling rate were received loud and clear.
In the mean time i looked for a multimeter (not a power analyzer) capable of DCV & DCI dual reading function without mechanical relay's input scanning, among the "low cost" ones i found the Hameg HMC8012, though not brilliant for AC performance and price point; the guy responsible for that activity is now dealing with R&S representative.
But i'm still on the market for a NEW bench DMM for personal use, but there are still two things that prevent me to buy the SDM3055 :
1) input capacitance & impedance transient : 1.1nF seems pretty high but i'm mainly worried about what happens during the filter's insertion (as spotted by Martin @ 07:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRZgGPQZZkE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRZgGPQZZkE)), i still wonder if it happens also with low DCV ranges in HI Z mode, but in any case this is near to be a deal breaker for me.
2) actual screen's refresh rate : it seems quite far from declared numbers (that i assume to be valid for USB / LAN data exchange) even after the last FW update, at least judging on what i'm seeing on youtube; dunno if there is still room for improvements but i'm inclined to think that we will not see drastical changes.
I already have three handheld DMMs and from the incoming bench multimeter i expect / pretend :
1) variable ADC's precision / sampling rate (max sps >=100)
2) parameterizable ADC's samples filtering
3) fast actual screen update, at least on par with medium sampling rate
4) clear text and wide angle of view screen
4) high stability input impedance & HI-Z mode for DCV (>= 10Gohm)
5) external trigger input
6) PC interface
7) 4 wire resistance reading
8 ) decent VAC performance within 40-20000Hz Hz
To be honest i'm a bit biased toward old styled VFD display DMM's for text clarity, fast response and very wide angle of view, but at the same time i'm intrigued by features like trends chart and so on.
I cannot justify to myself a Keithley / Agilent ones for home dickering and there to much lemmons on used market to go in that way, this Siglent seems well equipped but some of the listed points are still not satisfied.
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^ For goodness sakes man, you are over analyzing this. Its a darn fine meter for $400, accurate, fast enough for any home hobbyist (with the latest FW), and the display is really quite nice. Your other option is to 2.5 times as much for a Keysight 3446x.
The display refresh rate is plenty fast, faster than it looks on camera. Martin is stuck on enabling the AC Filter, I never use it, not had a need for it. IMO, the display is far easier to read then VFD or LED even. You can read it easily from across the room at angels.
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^ For goodness sakes man, you are over analyzing this.
LOL, it could be the case, but everyone here tends to behave in such way ;)
IMHO rust inside, "last setup" bug and input filter on/off impedance transient are quite important issues to me, of course it all depends on what you do.
But VFD displays usually have superior readability against lcd panels, if the SDM3055 one is like the SDG2000X's screen (that i own) then i'm quite convinced about that.
Anyway, talking about cost, here in EU the average street price from authorized dealers is much higher, around 535 Euro VAT included (600USD).
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^ For goodness sakes man, you are over analyzing this.
LOL, it could be the case, but everyone here tends to behave in such way ;)
IMHO rust inside, "last setup" bug and input filter on/off impedance transient are quite important issues to me, of course it all depends on what you do.
But VFD displays usually have superior readability against lcd panels, if the SDM3055 one is like the SDG2000X's screen (that i own) then i'm quite convinced about that.
Anyway, talking about cost, here in EU the average street price from authorized dealers is much higher, around 535 Euro VAT included (600USD).
To address 2 points in your above reply, the display readability is as in the first image in this thread, not the shaded part but the brighter half and just as kj7e says.
Just to be perfectly clear.....they are plenty bright and very easy to read, even at considerable distances.
Sorry I can't compare it to the SDG2000X just yet, new stock is in transit ATM.
Input filter.
I suspect it is a software filter as there are no changes in input capacitance when it's engaged.
So that leaves one other worry for you, the effect of input capacitance on low voltage readings.
All I can do to attempt to answer this is use an AWG as a uV DC source while monitoring with other meters, one of my old AVO's should be sensitive enough for that.
When I have a mo I'll be back with an edit.
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I suspect it is a software filter as there are no changes in input capacitance when it's engaged.
Hi Tautech,
i too guess that we have a software filter engaged but if you look to Martin's video @ 08:30 https://youtu.be/ZRZgGPQZZkE?t=512 (https://youtu.be/ZRZgGPQZZkE?t=512), you can clearly see a fast input impedance drop below one Mohm followed by slow recovery to 10Meg, so something is alos happening at hardware level.
Do you hear a relay "click" when you cycle filter option ?
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I suspect it is a software filter as there are no changes in input capacitance when it's engaged.
Hi Tautech,
i too guess that we have a software filter engaged but if you look to Martin's video @ 08:30 https://youtu.be/ZRZgGPQZZkE?t=512 (https://youtu.be/ZRZgGPQZZkE?t=512), you can clearly see a fast input impedance drop below one Mohm followed by slow recovery to 10Meg, so something is alos happening at hardware level.
Do you hear a relay "click" when you cycle filter option ?
No.
Of course for 10M to 10G input impedance a relay selects a different divider network.
I don't have a PSU capable of less than 1mV supply although I could make a divider to get well down in the uV levels but at those levels I don't have further equipment for monitoring.
I'll have more of a play later.......
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Hi,
firmware version P01.16R2 is avaible at http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4630&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4630&tid=15)
From the PDF:
1. Modify the UI
2. Fix the bug in trend chart. F
3. Modify the number of file system from 2 to 3 , and copy some configuration file to new location .This will reduce the chance of system crash.
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Hi,
firmware version P01.16R2 is avaible at http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4630&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4630&tid=15)
From the PDF:
1. Modify the UI
2. Fix the bug in trend chart. F
3. Modify the number of file system from 2 to 3 , and copy some configuration file to new location .This will reduce the chance of system crash.
Nice, Ill try it out later today.
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Only had a few min to play with it so far. They defiantly made UI changes, nice the OK button does something now. Not sure I like the new display layout yet, looks like they wanted to address the similarity to the Keysight 3440x UI. The light grey background is gone, improves contrast for sure, that's a plus. Slight changes to many of the menus and how the soft buttons work. Trend Chart integration is much better. The auto trigger may be a bit slower on the slow mode. Not sure I like the large yellow highlighted selected mode indication or the yellow separation lines. Cant say it looks like the Keysights anymore, that's for sure.
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Tried the new firmware 16R2. The trend chart is better but not great. It starts good but after a minute the sample rate drops. The attached picture is of a sine wave with a period of 100 s. The left side of the trend chart shows a nice sine curve, after that the sample interval is much longer.
Also I don't like the grey texts on the softkeys, seems like they are disabled.
Update:
The trend chart only works correctly in "all"-mode when the measuring speed is set to "slow". In "medium" and "fast" speed, the trend chart scrolls as in mode "recent" and loses the data older than 1 minute.
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FW 16R2
There are no installation instructions.
There are 2 FW files to be installed:
Vp15R2-to-p16-transition.ADS to be installed first, system reports 15R3 after installation.
Reboot
Then install sdm305(V100R001B01D01P16R2).ADS, after which system will auto reboot.
First change noticed is the sightly different GUI, darker background resulting in better contrast and enhanced visibility.
Also slightly changed on-screen indication icon layout:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=212062)
Edit
Screenshot added
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Here is another example of the trend graph in the 16R2 firmware. It displays an hour long log with so few datapoints the result is unusable. The input signal in this case was a triangle wave with a period of 15 minutes. The DMM measures every second so there is enough data available to draw a decent waveform.
I hope Siglent will have another look at the firmware and fixes this problem.
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Here is another example of the trend graph in the 16R2 firmware. It displays an hour long log with so few datapoints the result is unusable. The input signal in this case was a triangle wave with a period of 15 minutes. The DMM measures every second so there is enough data available to draw a decent waveform.
I hope Siglent will have another look at the firmware and fixes this problem.
Dear Eric-H,
Trend data shown in the screen fixed on the screen about four hundred pixels.
SDM3055’s trend function show the user a simulation curve which in accordance with a certain algorithm . It saves the measured characteristic curve
of the overall shape, but not the original curve reproduction.
Thank you for support Siglent!
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Here is another example of the trend graph in the 16R2 firmware. It displays an hour long log with so few datapoints the result is unusable. The input signal in this case was a triangle wave with a period of 15 minutes. The DMM measures every second so there is enough data available to draw a decent waveform.
I hope Siglent will have another look at the firmware and fixes this problem.
Dear Eric-H,
Trend data shown in the screen fixed on the screen about four hundred pixels.
SDM3055’s trend function show the user a simulation curve which in accordance with a certain algorithm . It saves the measured characteristic curve
of the overall shape, but not the original curve reproduction.
Thank you for support Siglent!
Thanks for the reply. I understand that you can not display all measured data in the 400 pixels available on the display, so you have to skip datapoints. However, in the screenshot I've posted you can see that that graph is drawn in steps of +/- 40 pixels. So the screen could display a much better curve if it didn't skip so many datapoints.
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Well the new firmware didn't fix the problem i've had from day one with the boot screen.
Maybe someday it'll happen :'(
(http://i.imgur.com/T5WGJQl.png?1)
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Well the new firmware didn't fix the problem i've had from day one with the boot screen.
Maybe someday it'll happen :'(
Is other functionality OK?
I'll point Siglent to your post.
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Yea it works fine apart from that, just the "Kernel starting" image that's screwed.
Thanks :)
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Yea it works fine apart from that, just the "Kernel starting" image that's screwed.
Thanks :)
Tech support says your start screen is representative of a power failure during a FW update.
They suggest you contact your supplier for warranty repair.
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Ok, thanks :/.
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I was working on an amplifier this morning and for the first time - let's say just for fun - I used the "hold measurement function". It will keep 8 measurements in total which probably is, just about what most of us need. What came to my mind is that the beep that comes, when the figures has settled, is not especially loud and the pitch is not the very best for me, with other words, quite hard to hear. In addition, it can also - by us people not having normal, functional ears - be masked by fan noise from the DMM and of course, other types of noise in the surrounding. It would have been a nice feature if the user could change both pitch and volume or at least the latter. If it is not possible to add in the firmware, the only thing I will have to do is to put a microphone near the beeper inside the DMM and connect it to an amplifier ;D
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I was working on an amplifier this morning and for the first time - let's say just for fun - I used the "hold measurement function". It will keep 8 measurements in total which probably is, just about what most of us need. What came to my mind is that the beep that comes, when the figures has settled, is not especially loud and the pitch is not the very best for me, with other words, quite hard to hear. In addition, it can also - by us people not having normal, functional ears - be masked by fan noise from the DMM and of course, other types of noise in the surrounding. It would have been a nice feature if the user could change both pitch and volume or at least the latter. If it is not possible to add in the firmware, the only thing I will have to do is to put a microphone near the beeper inside the DMM and connect it to an amplifier ;D
It should be, let's see if others also need a higher volume beeper as it adds weight to any suggestions that might be forwarded to Siglent.
In the meanwhile I'll have a play with my unit to check beeper sound levels.
Thanks for the feedback. :-+
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IMHO the beeper IS too quiet.
Sure in a quiet lab it might be very acceptable but with any significant background noise it needs be ~ 50% louder.
Adjustable would be nice, let's see what Siglent can do. :-\
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Tech support have informed me beeper volume is already set at max in FW. :(
I have suggested a HW and FW change to increase overall volume and to also make it user adjustable.
In the meantime the VMC out BNC can be set to provide a positive or negative trigger out that may suffice for those wanting to trigger an external beeper circuit as a work-around.
If I get a chance I'll investigate a simple HW mod to increase beeper volume. With luck we only need to change some gain settings. :-\
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Thanks so much tautech for your support! :-+
It would be very helpful being able to adjust the beeper volume, after all it is of great significance - at least for me - when you use the "hold measurement function". You can safely keep your eyes on the object without slipping your probe tips and wait for the beep without watching the display. 8) Yes agree, in a quiet lab its quite okay. Good idea, if not this issue can be solved in another way, to use the VMC, did not think of that. :-+
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Thanks so much tautech for your support! :-+
It would be very helpful being able to adjust the beeper volume, after all it is of great significance - at least for me - when you use the "hold measurement function". You can safely keep your eyes on the object without slipping your probe tips and wait for the beep without watching the display. 8) Yes agree, in a quiet lab its quite okay. Good idea, if not this issue can be solved in another way, to use the VMC, did not think of that. :-+
It was a bright idea I had in a rare moment ;) but I may have come to grief as try as I might I can't enable the functionality I expected.
More emails to tech support........
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Thanks so much tautech for your support! :-+
It would be very helpful being able to adjust the beeper volume, after all it is of great significance - at least for me - when you use the "hold measurement function". You can safely keep your eyes on the object without slipping your probe tips and wait for the beep without watching the display. 8) Yes agree, in a quiet lab its quite okay. Good idea, if not this issue can be solved in another way, to use the VMC, did not think of that. :-+
It was a bright idea I had in a rare moment ;) but I may have come to grief as try as I might I can't enable the functionality I expected.
More emails to tech support........
Low beeper volume......
At this time the VMC BNC output is NOT configured to provide any output that is part of the UI beeper, whether it be the Hold or Continuity beep.
BUT IT COULD BE with new FW, I'm told, IF there is sufficient demand.
SDM3055 owners/users please put your hands up if you'd find this functionality useful.
It could be used for triggering a louder external beeper or pass/fail or as your needs demand.
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Hi tautech and thanks again for being very responsive on this and other issues! :-+ Yes, for me it would be nice to have the option to do so, but guess most people around got much better ears than I have :) So, there was not any possibilities to make changes in the firmware to increase the volume? Sometimes wrong pitch along with low amplitude could be the culprit to not perceive sound from all those built in, small beepers. I will wait and see how it goes, thanks again! :)
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Being able to configure the VMC output as latch/continuity indicator could certainly be useful for several tasks.
Since by now we know of at least one user who would greatly appreciate it in order to overcome some UI design weakness, i.e. the silent beeper, why not just implement it?
I really doubt that a bunch of SDM3055 users will jump in just to vote for that feature, particularly as they might not have an urgent need for it right at the moment. But it will come in handy some day for sure...
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I am now also a SDM3055 owner. I really like the Display. This Display was one reason i prefer the Siglent over the Rigol in the same price range. Accuracy seems to be very good :blah:...
I would like to point out two interesting features that i hadn't seen mentioned in the forum and elsewhere but might be interesting for potential buyers:
a) The AC range is really AC coupled, so DC offset does not impact the result as in cheap meters where they have saved the expensive high voltage decoupling cap.
b) The shunt resistor impedance is 1.2Ohm only in the µA and mA current measurement ranges! That gives a nice low voltage drop during current measurements. One of my multimeter has here 1kOhm for example in the µA range.
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I also bought a SDM3055, and I like it a lot.
Yesterday I've managed to get EasySDM v1.1.1.2 working using the NI VISA driver: http://download.ni.com/support/softlib/visa/NI-VISA/15.5/Windows/NIVISA1550runtime.exe (http://download.ni.com/support/softlib/visa/NI-VISA/15.5/Windows/NIVISA1550runtime.exe) . This runtime contains the Visa Shared Components v.5.6.0.
But there is a problem....
The top of the screen of the EasySDM does not update and stays black, see attachment.
I am using Windows 10 Pro 64bit. Do other also have this problem, or how to solve this ?
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I also bought a SDM3055, and I like it a lot.
Yesterday I've managed to get EasySDM v1.1.1.2 working using the NI VISA driver: http://download.ni.com/support/softlib/visa/NI-VISA/15.5/Windows/NIVISA1550runtime.exe (http://download.ni.com/support/softlib/visa/NI-VISA/15.5/Windows/NIVISA1550runtime.exe) . This runtime contains the Visa Shared Components v.5.6.0.
But there is a problem....
The top of the screen of the EasySDM does not update and stays black, see attachment.
I am using Windows 10 Pro 64bit. Do other also have this problem, or how to solve this ?
Did you select the Control dropdown and then Connect?
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Yes,it connects and works as I see the measurements. But the top line of the screen is screwed up and only shows a very small part of the characters. It changes text when I switch selection, but is stays a small part of the characters.
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Yes, it works but the top line of the screen is screwed up and only shows a very small part of the characters. It changes when I switch selection.
How are you doing the selection, with the PC control I hope.
Attached is a screenshot of the Easy SDM UI before an active connection is enabled. Notice the highlighted Connect. After selecting Connect you need then select the type of connection be it USB or LAN.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=233153)
What are you using?
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I am using USB.
Yes, I am changing selection using the EasySDM since the SDM3055 is on "remote" once it is connected.
My meter runs the latest firmware: P01.16R2 (It came with P01.16 from the factory).
I will show a picture how is is shown when my meter is connected and running.
I think it has something to do with the new GUI design of the meter in the latest firmware. P01.16R2 changed the position of the text on the screen of the SDM3055, see attachment.
Once again I will post a picture for you when I have the meter connected again to the PC. It is currently not.
Does it work with your SDM3055 with the same firmware ?
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Yep, same FW.
I think I see your point now......part of the DMM GUI is missing in the EasyDMM remote connection GUI.
You can see it missing in this screenshot too at the top and blacked out. I will inform the factory.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=233160)
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YES!
That is exactly what I mean, thanx !!
May be they can also change cosmetic bugs:
Change Histongrom --> Histogram
Change UI colors on the screen to match those on the real SDM3055
Change the Led color on the left from red to green (like on the real SDM3055)
Change '2nd' button on the picture to 'Dual' (like on the real SDM3055)
Change 'Scaner' text above 'Temp' button on the picture to 'Scanner' (typo)
Add text "Display" above the "Math" button on the picture (like on the real SDM3055)
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I got this reply message from Siglent Tech support just after they got to work today:
We release new EasyDDM Just Now.
I test it, You can see:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=233412)
We are so sorry that Too long time no update.
There is the Download URL:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/EasyDDM-P1.05.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/EasyDDM-P1.05.rar)
I have not tested it to see how many of the issues raised have been fixed.
YES!
That is exactly what I mean, thanx !!
May be they can also change cosmetic bugs:
Change Histongrom --> Histogram
Change UI colors on the screen to match those on the real SDM3055
Change the Led color on the left from red to green (like on the real SDM3055)
Change '2nd' button on the picture to 'Dual' (like on the real SDM3055)
Change 'Scaner' text above 'Temp' button on the picture to 'Scanner' (typo)
Add text "Display" above the "Math" button on the picture (like on the real SDM3055)
BTW these ^^^ have been forwarded to the Siglent software engineers.
Thanks for your feedback flash2b. :-+
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WOW, that is quick. Will test it tonight on my SDM3055.
Change Histongrom --> Histogram is also fixed !!
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Tested the new EasyDMM:
Version Tested: V100R001B01D01P05
OS Used: Windows 10 Pro 64bit
VISA drivers: NI Visa Shared Components v.5.6.0
Meter/Firmware used: Siglent SDM3055 with P01.16R2.
Fixed (compared to EasySDM v1.1.1.2) :
+ Screen update problem in the upper part of the display
+ Change Histongrom --> Histogram
Not fixed (compared to EasySDM v1.1.1.2) :
Major (new)
- Pressing Shift/Local on the SDM3055 will show the reading on the actual display of the meter, however after doing this changing range (e.g. from DCV-->ACV) on EasyDMM leads to "Program Not Responding" so application hangs and needs to be killed. SDM3055 stays at connection status (Top Right) "Remote" and also does not respond anymore until EasyDMM is killed and then goes to connection status "Local".
Medium (new)
- Pressing Run/Stop on EasyDMM will set SDM3055 from trigger status (top left) "Immed Trig" {green color} to "Stopped" {red color} and the measurement reading is shown on the actual display of the meter. Pressing Run/Stop on EasyDMM again will show trigger status "Immed Trig" {white color} on SDM3055, so in white color instead of (previous) green color and also does NOT blank out the (previous) measurement reading on the actual display of the meter back to ".. ....." (like it was before pressing Run/Stop). (a work around is to switch the range and switch range back)
- The Rel On/Off on EasyDDM is shown on the 5th function key whereas this function is implemented and displayed on the 6th key of the SDM3055 meter (may be minor, but I find this annoying)
- The Range button on EasyDMM is only there for show there is no functionality. You cannot set "Manual" range like on the SDM3055 meter. You can however use the 1st function key in EasyDMM to select Auto or a specific range (e.g.2V, 20V etc) but not toggle between Manual and Auto. The + and - range buttons are also there for show and do not function as the SDM3055 meter. (may be minor, but I find this annoying)
Minor / Cosmetic (new)
- Branding "Siglent" on the Top Left of EasyDMM is now blank instead of the nice Siglent Logo of the previous version (branding guys, I know that is important !!)
- Branding "SDM3055 Digital Multimeter" on the Top Left of EasyDMM next to the Siglent Logo is now blank instead the previous version
Minor / Cosmetic (already reported)
- Change 'Scaner' text above 'Temp' button on the picture to 'Scanner' (typo)
- Change UI colors on the screen to match those on the real SDM3055
- Change the Led color on the left from red to green (like on the real SDM3055)
- Change '2nd' button on the picture to 'Dual' (like on the real SDM3055)
- Add text "Display" above the "Math" button on the picture (like on the real SDM3055
Overall I am happy with the new version, but I hope the Shift/Local bug will be fixed soon.
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Thanks very much flash2b for your feedback and well written analysis of the latest EasySDM software. :clap:
If I may I'd like to comment on these:
Minor / Cosmetic (new)
- Branding "Siglent" on the Top Left of EasyDMM is now blank instead of the nice Siglent Logo of the previous version (branding guys, I know that is important !!)
- Branding "SDM3055 Digital Multimeter" on the Top Left of EasyDMM next to the Siglent Logo is now blank instead the previous version
Siglent rebrand some of their equipment and I'd imagine the branding has been purposely omitted but I do agree as OEM of the SDM3055 the Siglent branding and model# should be included in Siglent supplied software.
It goes without saying that your comments will be considered by the software engineers.
Thanks.
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The whole branding with this new version is gone and it now looks OEM. Previously the program icon was a Siglent logo (now, in my opinion, an ugly icon) and the "About EasyDMM" also does not mention Siglent anymore. Seems also they had this software on the shelf, since it is Copyrighted 2015.
I find the EasyDMM a good addition to the SDM3055 meter itself, being the latter the most important to be free of bugs.
There is however also a (small) bug in the continuity function (Meter/Firmware used: Siglent SDM3055 with P01.16R2).
To replicate the bug you need to:
1. Switch continuity mode
2. Make sure the beeper is set to on
3. Press the Threshold function key
4. Decrease or Increase the threshold ohm value
5. Now make a short with your probes
6. The beeper will not make any sound !!!!
7. Toggle beeper to off and on again
8. The beeper will make sound
The funny thing is that it works the same when you don't press the Threshold function key and then the beeper sound will stay on. So it looks like that pressing "Threshold" will mute the beeper which it should not do !
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There is however also a (small) bug in the continuity function (Meter/Firmware used: Siglent SDM3055 with P01.16R2).
To replicate the bug you need to:
1. Switch continuity mode
2. Make sure the beeper is set to on
3. Press the Threshold function key
4. Decrease or Increase the threshold ohm value
5. Now make a short with your probes
6. The beeper will not make any sound !!!!
7. Toggle beeper to off and on again
8. The beeper will make sound
The funny thing is that it works the same when you don't press the Threshold function key and then the beeper sound will stay on. So it looks like that pressing "Threshold" will mute the beeper which it should not do !
Does setting the Relative selector either Off or ON (with probes shorted or link between inputs) affect what you are seeing in any way?
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tautech, I have updated my analysis that you've quoted. It seems the Threshold function mutes the beeper. It is step 3 in my replication steps description. I've numbered the steps now to make it more clear. Step 3 shuts the sound of the beeper off.
If I go to Math --> Limits and repeat my continuity test, the beeper is making sound again (as it should) and is working fine. So it seems that it is only linked to the specific screen that contains the Threshold functionality.
What do you mean with "Relative Selector" ?
After performing the steps above, if you switch function (e.g. DCV) and go back to Continuity the screen shows the Beeper is "Off". This confirms that pressing "Threshold" always changes the beeper state, while it should keep the beeper state in tact.
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What do you mean with "Relative Selector"
Zero readings can be set Relative to whatever you are needing to measure.
For example readings in some modes wander with open probes and this apparent over-sensitivity can be nulled using the Relative setting which will adjust the zero to the point in time when it is engaged and whatever you are connected or not to at that time.
I'm just typing ATM and not at my 3055 so I'm ensuring we get as much info from you in order to replicate your findings. ;)
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Relative (Rel On/Off) is only available in Resistance 2W & 4W mode. Not in the continuity mode.
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Relative (Rel On/Off) is only available in Resistance 2W & 4W mode. Not in the continuity mode.
Relative (Rel On/Off) is available in many/most measurement modes, OK not in Continuity.
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You are right and have rephrased it nicely.
If you or someone else on the EEVBlog can confirm my reported bug (beeper bug), that will be very helpful. The SDM3055 is really a nice meter and Siglent made a lot of progress to solve issues in the past.
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You are right and have rephrased it nicely.
If you or someone else on the EEVBlog can confirm my reported bug (beeper bug), that will be very helpful. The SDM3055 is really a nice meter and Siglent made a lot of progress to solve issues in the past.
Confirmed with my unit as you've described in reply #227 and BTW Tech support are aware of your findings.
Thanks for your efforts. :-+
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Did you get any feedback of the issue with EasyDMM and/or the Beeper Bug of the SDM3055 ???
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Did you get any feedback of the issue with EasyDMM and/or the Beeper Bug of the SDM3055 ???
Yes, acknowledgments and comment that both would be addressed, other than that no more than I mentioned in my previous reply however from the FW page on the website:
Current Version: 1.01.01.15R1 | Published?2015-09-29
Which means a FW update is now well overdue......which of course this means Siglent are busy incorporating the suggestions that you have offered. ;)
If you don't spot the new FW before I do I'll be posting a link to it here when it's released.
Even though Siglent are not apparently active on EEVblog I can assure watchers they have setup alerts for most of the threads on Siglent products and often are aware of problems by the time I've reported them.
Thanks all for your ongoing support.
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There is new member in Siglent DMM products.
New pruct is in X-instruments category.
SDM3045X.
Overall functionally like SDM3055 but new SDM3045X is 60000 count, advertised as 4½ digit DMM
- or is it better say 4 3/4 or 4 4/5 or even 4 5/6 as some manufacturer name 60000 count meter.. ( SDM3055 have 240000 and it is named as 5 1/2 digit)
If look what is Tektronix opinion, yes world is free for opinions:
http://www.tek.com/document/whitepaper/understanding-handheld-dmm-specifications (http://www.tek.com/document/whitepaper/understanding-handheld-dmm-specifications)
then it can name least as 4 4/5 digit or more.
But if use other approach to digits:
Resolution digits Digits = log10 (counts) and this give with 60000 count roughly 4 3/4.
There is many meter what say 5 1/2 digit but markets have adopted and accepted these 200000 (199999) counts can name 5 1/2 digits, and also this is well explained. Confusion and different opinions for marketing "digits" start just after this... 1/3, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5, 4/6 and so on.....
There is one road away from this. Talk about counts as primary when talk about resolution and secondary can tell how many digits if even need.
Data sheet pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3045X_Datasheet_DM0545_E01A.pdf)
Resolution is lower but relative to resolution difference true accuracy do not look bad, is it even better in some cases.
(SDM3055 one year DCV is listed as 0.015% and SDM3045X as 0.01%)
If look more carefully accuracy specifications, it need look percent + count total.
If measure 5V and it show exactly 5.0000V (full range 6V) error can be 0.01%(from display) + 6 count.
(one count in this range is 0.0001V)
max(%) 5.0005V + 6 count so max is 5.0011V (0.022% more)
min(%) 4.9995V - 6 count so min is 4.9989V (0.022% less)
But wait a minute, what happend if I measure and display show exactly 10.000V
Now meter is in 60V range. But, in this range specifications tell: 0.02%(from display) + 4 count.
(one count in this range is 0.001)
max(%) 10.002V + 4 count so max is 10.006V (0.06% more)
min(%) 9.998V - 4 count so min is 9.994V (0.06% less)
If these errors specified by number of counts are true random noise without including other type of errors then average can do some trick.
If you wonder these real % take your DMM specifications, read carefully and do calculations.
Also this was just example and not at all like worst case finding. Worst cases are when you look just some border values.
Example just >6V or just >600mV. These is not Siglent special, this kind of things are normal, independent of if meter is Fluke, Keithley, AVO, HuiHai or Utrend.
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Overall functionally like SDM3055 but new SDM3045X is 4½ digit. (60000 count when SDM3055 have 240000)
SDM3045X - 65999 count (60000 +10%)
SDM3055 - 239999 count (200000 +20%)
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Counting starts from 0, so no need to subtract 1 from the maximum count.
The front of the SDM3045X looks slightly different as the SDM3055(A). The up, down and range button have different color and the top/bottom are triangular. Looks very similar as the SDG2000X series and new Rigol test gear.
I wonder which reference they put into the SDM3045X, anyone knows ?
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The front of the SDM3045X looks slightly different as the SDM3055(A). The up, down and range button have different color and the top/bottom are triangular.
It is, but only front panel colours and minor font differences and a different coloured button or two.
SDM3045X with SDM3055 below, both showing VDC
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=252352)
After a quick crash through the menus the only difference that was apparent in the UI was the lack of any filter in VDC. The VDC filter is present in the SDM3055 UI.
Interestingly there appears to be a different series of FW in the newer SDM3045X and that may account for the much faster booting in this new model. :clap:
These new X series models have horns >:D , no not really, but feet that extend over each end of the instrument and protect both front and rear BNC's, buttons and knobs, so much so that they could well be stored on a cupboard either end up or such when not in use.
The feet are medium hard rubber and screw fixed, 2 for each end. They have small recesses that accommodate the matching lugs of another X series instrument when stacked.
Stacking feet
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=252354)
I wonder which reference they put into the SDM3045X, anyone knows ?
At a glance it's the same inside as a SDM3055
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615)
SDM3045X PCB
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=252356)
Edit
And BTW the SDM3045X has NO fan.
Added links for SDM3045X to the first post in this thread.
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Thanks for the pictures. (The reference is however located under the metal shielding, so still a 'secret')
The rubber feed are exactly the same as the Rigol DP832 and other Siglent X series equipment.
The ranges on the 3055 are much better equiped/balanced for daily use, eg. the weird 600V AND 1000V on the 3045X
3055: 200mV, 2V, 20V, 200V, 1000V
3045X: 600mV, 6V, 60V, 600V, 1000V
I like the look of the 3045X better.
Is the beeper bug also present in the 3045X ? What is the firmware version in the new machine? Is it really different or did they just use a faster processor/flash card?
I also wonder if Siglent is gonna release a 3055X model.... (and stop producing the 3055 and 3055A model, where the A model is just a regular 3055 with a GPIB USB dongle)
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Thanks for the pictures. (The reference is however located under the metal shielding, so still a 'secret')
No it's not, see the 3055 pic I linked:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615)
I like the look of the 3045X better.
You might like the sound of it more.....NO fan. :-+
Is the beeper bug also present in the 3045X ?
No, and if the Beeper is toggled off and on in a 3055 the bug goes away.
What is the firmware version in the new machine?
New FW
5.01.01.01
Current FW for the 3055 is 01.16R2
I also wonder if Siglent is gonna release a 3055X model...
There's every likelihood Siglent will update the 3055 to an X but there has to be some small changes in the case to mount the feet. Some other existing models are getting "facelifts" and another one will be announced in a few days.
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I meant the reference of the 3045X is still a secret. Your 3045X pic has a big can over the reference.
So no chance on a 3065X ???
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I meant the reference of the 3045X is still a secret. Your 3045X pic has a big can over the reference.
Doesn't Dave take a look at under the can in the 3055 teardown?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-829-siglent-sdm3055-bench-multimeter-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-829-siglent-sdm3055-bench-multimeter-teardown/)
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True, but I recon the 3045X has a different version/type/grade since the tolerance is also different compared to the 3055.
The 3055 has an MAX6325 1ppm/°C, Low-Noise, +2.5V Voltage References grade 'C' (best grade).
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My question is simple. Why someone should buy the 4 1/2 (3045) version when the difference between the 5 1/2 (3055) version is only a few Dollars or Euro. I think a new version to the upper level 6 1/2 digits (let say 3065) with some updated futures. It could be a better choice with the same price difference in the upper level. ;) Enough competitive to Keysight 34461A.
Maybe in the near future ...
Also, Rigol have long time ago to present something new (TFT version for example) in Workbench DMM area ...
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My question is simple. Why someone should buy the 4 1/2 (3045) version when the difference between the 5 1/2 (3055) version is only a few Dollars or Euro.
$389 vs $469 is more than a few bucks for many.
There's many that don't require even 5 1/2 digits. Everyone needs different specs depending on whether you're a voltnut or not. While the units are not portable like a DMM, their cost is no more than top end DMM's and the feature set is similar.
I think a new version to the upper level 6 1/2 digits (let say 3065) with some updated futures.
Then you get into a more competitive market segment where any market share for Siglent will be smaller.
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We have done a short SDM3045X unboxing video where you can see also the booting speed.
We have units to test, let us know if you like to see anything special.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ds3K1V3kWg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ds3K1V3kWg)
Ciao
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The horns are nice if the SDM30xx are beeing used as portable devices but on a desk or shelf I do not like them.
I am wondering if you can mount the front bumper-horns rotated by 180° (=showing to the back), so they are out the way. It would be quite clever from Siglent and indeed it looks like they can become unscrewed and remounted again rotated.
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The horns are nice if the SDM30xx are beeing used as portable devices but on a desk or shelf I do not like them.
I am wondering if you can mount the front bumper-horns rotated by 180° (=showing to the back), so they are out the way. It would be quite clever from Siglent and indeed it looks like they can become unscrewed and remounted again rotated.
The front "horns" can indeed be rotated 1800, the stacking notches and all 4 screw holes still align.
But, there is a small ridge on the underside that rolls over the front face of the instrument when installed correctly and this would need to be removed with a sharp knife before reversal to get them to fit nicely.
This ridge is ~3mm wide and 1mm high and the feet/horns firm rubber type should not make it too difficult to accomplish this mod at home for those that need to. :-/O
Thanks for the suggestion, we'll pass it on.
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Anyone got a calibration manual for the SDM3055?
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Anyone got a calibration manual for the SDM3055?
Not seen one from Siglent yet.
AFAIK they should have it finished by now, it was some time ago when I asked for the Service manual.
All their Service manuals have the Cal procedures outlined and the equipment needed.
To give some idea I listed an overview for the full Siglent range here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg986796/#msg986796 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg986796/#msg986796)
It'll be ~30hrs till tech support are at work at the factory, we'll try to get some answers for you then.
BTW have you got one that's faulty?
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Anyone got a calibration manual for the SDM3055?
Let me know if this helps
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2)
Edit
The Service manual lists the key equipment required as:
Keysight 34172B
Fluke 5522A
Siglent SDG2000X
PC with Easytest software
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Hey guys,
I've just recently got one SDM3045X and although I had no time to test it thoroughly, there are minor issues with it which are annoying a lot:
- blinking (breathing) power led. It is an instant wtf - you just cant do anything at your workplace without disturbing your focus by this tiny led. I will kill the multivibrator in his head but for now the only protection is a small piece of duct tape. What is the reason behind this? Driving the users mad? Luckily it is not beeping continuously at power off.
- the font used on main screen is just partly monospaced: the minus/plus signs has different width. Because of that, when the DUT is not connected, the numbers on the screen is constantly jumping to left and right. Super annoying and it could be resolved easily by using a proper font...
- the plastic horns are upside down comparing to my SDG2042X, therefore it was impossible to stack these on top of each other (I resolved by flipping the horns upside down on SDG2042X, but one of the screw nuts just falled inside the casing.
- the display becomes super slow when the bargraph is on. Sure, it takes some cpu cycles to calculate and show the bargraph, but c'mon...
- you cannot set the display brightness (background lighting)
and I just used it for 5 minutes :palm:
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Is there a firmware update available for the SDM3045x?
I found nothing on the official product page. Maybe it is not the right place to look?
Cheers
hammy
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Is there a firmware update available for the SDM3045x?
I found nothing on the official product page. Maybe it is not the right place to look?
Cheers
hammy
Nothing that I've seen yet.
Is there a problem you'd like to report ?
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Nothing that I've seen yet.
Is there a problem you'd like to report ?
No, everything is fine. :-+ I was just curious.
Thank you tautech, happy new year! :D
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Something new for 2017 ? ? ?
(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/chinesewebsite/Pictures/News/DSC_1595a-550px.jpg)
Enlarge the image to see a new model #. ;)
2,200,000 count. :scared:
(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Picture/Product/SDM3065X/5.bmp)
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Looks good tautech! Have not seen any prices yet, but they will show up soon I guess. Well, since I already have both a SDM3055 and 34461A I rather stop buying just because they look nice and no, I am not that rich :=\
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Happy new year to everyone,
Yeah great news. With the new X series look, but the price (7980 ¥ about 1150 US $) looks more expensive than Keysight 34461. So .... between the two models i choose Keysight 34461A with Benchvue software.
But this is my personal choice ...
http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-db.aspx?id=1538&tid=37&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-db.aspx?id=1538&tid=37&T=2)
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Happy new year to everyone,
Yeah great news. With the new X series look, but the price (7980 ¥ about 1150 US $) looks more expensive than Keysight 34461. So .... between the two models i choose Keysight 34461A with Benchvue software.
But this is my personal choice ...
http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-db.aspx?id=1538&tid=37&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-db.aspx?id=1538&tid=37&T=2)
Who knows were the price point will be set ? :-//
SDM3045X $389
SDM3055 $469
SDM3065X ? ? ? and $1150 seems unrealistic.
We've seen this before with other models..... the Chinese price bearing no relation to western market pricing.
-
[/quote]
Who knows were the price point will be set ? :-//
SDM3045X $389
SDM3055 $469
SDM3065X ? ? ? and $1150 seems unrealistic.
We've seen this before with other models..... the Chinese price bearing no relation to western market pricing.
[/quote]
I hope so. If that happens it cool be a good point. Time will be the final judgment.
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A very good choice in the lower budget looks the new 3055X :
http://www.siglent.com/multimeter/SDM3055X-E (http://www.siglent.com/multimeter/SDM3055X-E)
(With variable diode voltage from 0 to 4 V as i can see in translation in comparison with the older 3055)
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Hi,
Here some updates from our friend from Batterfly in Italy :
http://www.batterfly.com/shop/multimetri-da-banco/siglent-sds3065x (http://www.batterfly.com/shop/multimetri-da-banco/siglent-sds3065x)
If the price is right it seems to be a "Legend" for 6 1/2 Digits !
And the Datasheet in English :
http://www.batterfly.com/PDF/Siglent/Siglent-SDM3065X-BF.pdf (http://www.batterfly.com/PDF/Siglent/Siglent-SDM3065X-BF.pdf)
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If the price is right it seems to be a "Legend" for 6 1/2 Digits !
Damn me hands are getting all sweaty. That would be beautiful to form a 3 unit row with 2xSDG2000X I have. Would be good unit to test & tear for Dave :-+
-
Anyone got a calibration manual for the SDM3055?
Let me know if this helps
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2)
Edit
The Service manual lists the key equipment required as:
Keysight 34172B
Fluke 5522A
Siglent SDG2000X
PC with Easytest software
I've been in contact with my distributor, but they don't have access to the Easytest software. Can't find it when searching either. Waiting for reply from Siglent.
Jacken
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Anyone got a calibration manual for the SDM3055?
Let me know if this helps
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2)
Edit
The Service manual lists the key equipment required as:
Keysight 34172B
Fluke 5522A
Siglent SDG2000X
PC with Easytest software
I've been in contact with my distributor, but they don't have access to the Easytest software. Can't find it when searching either. Waiting for reply from Siglent.
Jacken
More small info on Siglent equipment calibration and Easytest here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg986796/#msg986796 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg986796/#msg986796)
Please tell us why you need calibration, is it for traceability ?
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If the price is right it seems to be a "Legend" for 6 1/2 Digits !
Damn me hands are getting all sweaty. That would be beautiful to form a 3 unit row with 2xSDG2000X I have. Would be good unit to test & tear for Dave :-+
It may not be any little different to the existing SDM3055.
Dave's already had a good look at the 3055, the link to it was in the OP:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-829-siglent-sdm3055-bench-multimeter-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-829-siglent-sdm3055-bench-multimeter-teardown/)
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Hi tautech,
What you mean when you say: "little different" ?
I'm sure you know something better than we know ... ;)
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Anyone got a calibration manual for the SDM3055?
Let me know if this helps
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2)
Edit
The Service manual lists the key equipment required as:
Keysight 34172B
Fluke 5522A
Siglent SDG2000X
PC with Easytest software
I've been in contact with my distributor, but they don't have access to the Easytest software. Can't find it when searching either. Waiting for reply from Siglent.
Jacken
More small info on Siglent equipment calibration and Easytest here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg986796/#msg986796 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg986796/#msg986796)
Please tell us why you need calibration, is it for traceability ?
I just want it to be accurate. I have borrowed a very good reference, and my Brymen is spot on. Not the Siglent unfortunately.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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All the 1 year accuracy specs are listed in the Datasheet, I'm interested to know which measurement ranges fall outside those specs ?
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf)
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It may not be any little different to the existing SDM3055.
I compared the data sheets and think they are different.
The old 3055 has high input impedance up to the 2V range. The 3065x up to the 20V range :-+ . The DCV front end should be different. I think the 3065x will be using a bootstrapped input amplifier.
The 3055 has two current shunts, the 3065x has three.
And I expecting a LM399 voltage reference in the 3065x.
-
Anyone got a calibration manual for the SDM3055?
Let me know if this helps
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2)
Edit
The Service manual lists the key equipment required as:
Keysight 34172B
Fluke 5522A
Siglent SDG2000X
PC with Easytest software
I've been in contact with my distributor, but they don't have access to the Easytest software. Can't find it when searching either. Waiting for reply from Siglent.
Jacken
More small info on Siglent equipment calibration and Easytest here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg986796/#msg986796 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg986796/#msg986796)
Please tell us why you need calibration, is it for traceability ?
I just want it to be accurate. I have borrowed a very good reference, and my Brymen is spot on. Not the Siglent unfortunately.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Real trusted full accuracy test data please.
Also real data about "trusted very good reference".
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All the 1 year accuracy specs are listed in the Datasheet, I'm interested to know which measurement ranges fall outside those specs ?
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf)
My SDM3055 is off by around .150 Volt at 5 Volt range. I've had it for around one and a half year.
Jacken
-
All the 1 year accuracy specs are listed in the Datasheet, I'm interested to know which measurement ranges fall outside those specs ?
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf)
My SDM3055 is off by around .150 Volt at 5 Volt range. I've had it for around one and a half year.
Jacken
If your reference is as good as you say it is then indeed that seems an excessive error.
Let us know how you get on with your contact to Tech support, the guy I normally contact is off work until after the Chinese New Year But he has sent me sample EasyTest scripts so I'm sure we can get one for you.
PM me if you wish.
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All the 1 year accuracy specs are listed in the Datasheet, I'm interested to know which measurement ranges fall outside those specs ?
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf)
My SDM3055 is off by around .150 Volt at 5 Volt range. I've had it for around one and a half year.
Jacken
SDM3055 do not have 5V range at all. Most near 5V is 20V range.
Tell us what is your reference voltage and guaranteed maximum error. Then tell us what SDM3055 show, exactly, when it is well (30min) stabilized to 23 +5 celsius environment and settings as deafault.
Then Max, Min, Average and SD, use example 1k samples and slow measurement..
0.15V error @5VDC is really gigantic error. Some things are now badly skewed.
My old Metrix 202 analog is more accurate.
But, if it show 5,00000V reference DC using 20V range so that result is 0.15V off it really is like fail.
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It would appear that RS Components have adopted the Siglent SDM-3055 as their own, it must be special particularly at the prices they are asking. ??? :o ::) :P
-
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf)
Temperature Characteristic
Function: Temperature
Probe Type: RTD (Specifications are for 4-wire measure)
How can I make a 4-wire connection for the Pt100?
-
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDM3055x_DataSheet_DS06035-E02B.pdf)
Temperature Characteristic
Function: Temperature
Probe Type: RTD (Specifications are for 4-wire measure)
How can I make a 4-wire connection for the Pt100?
Just as you would for 4 wire resistance measurements.
However there is only mention of 4 wire temp measurement in the Datasheet and I couldn't find any mention of 4 wire temp measurement in the User manuals, old or new. :-//
All manuals:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2)
User manual, see P35
-
Any news about the availability of SDM-3065X and 3055X-E in Europe / America ?
-
Any news about the availability of SDM-3065X and 3055X-E in Europe / America ?
Soon TBA
-
Any news about the availability of SDM-3065X and 3055X-E in Europe / America ?
Soon TBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDVO2N9maYM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDVO2N9maYM)
-
Any news about the availability of SDM-3065X and 3055X-E in Europe / America ?
Soon TBA
BatterFly now have stock in Europe. They had it listed at €539 in January, now it's €759 (+VAT).
-
Any news about the availability of SDM-3065X and 3055X-E in Europe / America ?
Soon TBA
BatterFly now have stock in Europe. They had it listed at €539 in January, now it's €759 (+VAT).
Yes in the mean while Siglent has fixed the price, we will be happy to offer discounts code in case of interest.
Would you like us to test the unit and make a video?
What would you like to see?
I have one unit sitting on my desk
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They fixed the price? I'd say they broke it.
I understand what you mean though but for me the SDM3065X just became a lot less attractive.
BTW, I was looking at the accuracy specifications in the datasheet (http://www.batterfly.com/PDF/Siglent/Siglent-SDM3065X-BF.pdf) for the SDM3065X and noticed that they looks remarkably similar to those for the DM3068. There doesn't seem to be a single digit difference anywhere. Are these sort of performance numbers just mathematically calculated, tested and verified on actual instruments or just copied from the competing products datasheet?
Here's an example of the DC Voltage rangeAccuracy Specifications: ±% of reading + % of range)
1 Year, TCAL +/-5°C
RANGE RIGOL DM3068 SIGLENT SDM3065X
200mVDC 0.0040 + 0.0025 0.0040 + 0.0025
2VDC 0.0035 + 0.0006 0.0035 + 0.0006
20VDC 0.0040 + 0.0005 0.0040 + 0.0005
200VDC 0.0050 + 0.0006 0.0050 + 0.0006
10000VDC 0.0055 + 0.0010 0.0055 + 0.0010
200UA 0.050 + 0.015 0.050 + 0.015
2mA 0.050 + 0.003 0.050 + 0.003
20mA 0.050 + 0.015 0.050 + 0.015
200mA 0.050 + 0.003 0.050 + 0.003
2A 0.100 + 0.020 0.100 + 0.020
10A 0.150 + 0.010 0.150 + 0.010
200ohm 0.010 + 0.004 0.010 + 0.004
2kohm 0.010 + 0.001 0.010 + 0.001
20kohm 0.010 + 0.001 0.010 + 0.001
200kohm 0.010 + 0.001 0.010 + 0.001
1M 0.012 + 0.001 0.012 + 0.001
10M 0.040 + 0.001 0.040 + 0.001
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Any news about the availability of SDM-3065X and 3055X-E in Europe / America ?
Soon TBA
BatterFly now have stock in Europe. They had it listed at €539 in January, now it's €759 (+VAT).
At that price you better buy the real deal: a Keysight 34461A
-
Any news about the availability of SDM-3065X and 3055X-E in Europe / America ?
Soon TBA
BatterFly now have stock in Europe. They had it listed at €539 in January, now it's €759 (+VAT).
At that price you better buy the real deal: a Keysight 34461A
we were also surprised about the final price :-//
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I agree.
The "fixed" price for me was a big disappointment ! :palm:
I don't find it so competitive anymore.
Previously (at 539€) i was a prospective buyer, but now ...
I will wait to see the value of the expected SDM3055X-E and if they "fix it" too, i will go for something like 34401A or Keithley 2000, 2015 etc.
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I was considering buying either a Siglent or a Rigol DMM, and went on to TEquipment's site to compare prices. Looks like they don't stock Siglent anymore. Does anyone know when they stopped (and why) ?
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I was considering buying either a Siglent or a Rigol DMM, and went on to TEquipment's site to compare prices. Looks like they don't stock Siglent anymore. Does anyone know when they stopped (and why) ?
Does it matter ? :-//
Saelig now handle many Siglent online sales and if you need more local support you can find those close to you via this link:
http://siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)
Saelig also offer discounts to EEVblog members and you can ask for their code in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
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Are these sort of performance numbers just mathematically calculated, tested and verified on actual instruments or just copied from the competing products datasheet?
Looking at a SDM3045X Cal cert, specifications are checked against a Fluke 5522A multi product calibrator and its SN# is also listed for traceability. Once there's some 3065X's in the wild we'll have some idea if they use the same calibrator....I guess they would.
Should have mine late next week.
-
Are these sort of performance numbers just mathematically calculated, tested and verified on actual instruments or just copied from the competing products datasheet?
Looking at a SDM3045X Cal cert, specifications are checked against a Fluke 5522A multi product calibrator and its SN# is also listed for traceability. Once there's some 3065X's in the wild we'll have some idea if they use the same calibrator....I guess they would.
Should have mine late next week.
A sheet with calibration results is just a snapshot. It says nothing about the long(er) term stability of an instrument. For the latter you have to rely on the specifications so the question of H.O still stands. The specifications also seem to match the Keysight 34465A DMM. It takes some serious volt nuttery and experience to get to these levels of long term stability performance.
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SDM3065X. We have the official price and presence at American and European Siglent sites. 729$ and 689€. Still remains a little bit expensive for me.
http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=5211&T=2&tid=37. (http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=5211&T=2&tid=37.)
http://siglenteu.com/pdxx.aspx?id=2773&T=2&tid=37. (http://siglenteu.com/pdxx.aspx?id=2773&T=2&tid=37.)
So, simone.pignatti (Batterfly) you have to "reduce" the list price. ;) The coupons for the members remains a very good idea for those who interested. (And maybe for other products too).
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SDM3065X. We have the official price and presence at American and European Siglent sites. 729$ and 689€. Still remains a little bit expensive for me.
http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=5211&T=2&tid=37. (http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=5211&T=2&tid=37.)
http://siglenteu.com/pdxx.aspx?id=2773&T=2&tid=37. (http://siglenteu.com/pdxx.aspx?id=2773&T=2&tid=37.)
So, simone.pignatti (Batterfly) you have to "reduce" the list price. ;) The coupons for the members remains a very good idea for those who interested. (And maybe for other products too).
Hello, the SDM3065X price is now updated. As per your request, discount codes are available, just ask. Thanks.
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Some pics for comparison as the SDM3065X is ~50mm longer than its 2 little brothers:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=310969)
From top to bottom: SDM3045X, SDM5055 and SDM3065X
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=310971)
Measuring 6V Gell cell.
Note: SDM3045X has different measuring ranges but while it did not display Overload on its 6V range for some better comparison was switched to next range up: 60V while SDM3065X and 3055 were on 20V range.
Heeeelp, I'm turning into a Volt nut. :scared:
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Some pics for comparison as the SDM3065X is ~50mm longer than its 2 little brothers:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=310969)
From top to bottom: SDM3045X, SDM5055 and SDM3065X
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=310971)
Measuring 6V Gell cell.
Note: SDM3045X has different measuring ranges but while it did not display Overload on its 6V range for some better comparison was switched to next range up: 60V while SDM3065X and 3055 were on 20V range.
Heeeelp, I'm turning into a Volt nut. :scared:
Please take the cover off and post a few internal photos :-+
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Please take the cover off and post a few internal photos :-+
I have a SDM3065X in the lab, I think it will be my next teardown.
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Heeeelp, I'm turning into a Volt nut. :scared:
I can help. Just ship any and all meters you have in stock to me so you can return to your normal life.
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Please take the cover off and post a few internal photos :-+
I have a SDM3065X in the lab, I think it will be my next teardown.
YES!
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Heeeelp, I'm turning into a Volt nut. :scared:
I can help. Just ship any and all meters you have in stock to me so you can return to your normal life.
:-DD
Nah, I'll only keep one but which one ? :-/O
I think the SDM3065X might go to an existing customer and EEVblog member not too far away for a little while and some YouTube review time.... we've just started a discussion about it. 8)
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Looks like Batronix has the SDM3065X in stock now: http://www.batronix.com/shop/multimeter/Siglent-SDM3065X.html (http://www.batronix.com/shop/multimeter/Siglent-SDM3065X.html)
I wonder if there will ever be a sans-GPIB "light" version?
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Siglent are slowly rolling out open LAN ports for many products as a workaround the need for GPIB.
Open LAN ports are present in the SDM3000 range.
They also have a USB-GPIB adapter that's compatible with most of their products and listed as an accessory for SDM3000 range.
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1198&id=5211&tid=37&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1198&id=5211&tid=37&T=2)
Edit
LAN port comment updated
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I should have my SDM3065X tomorrow. I'll post some info once I have a chance to play with it.
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Only had it powered on for 45 min but so far I'm not disappointed.
@23deg C
SDM3065x powered on for 30min, cold power on of the 10v LT1021 Doug Malone reference (calibrated last week). The LT1021 took about 10 min to settle.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff146/wsmc551/23882328-01D8-442B-8288-B7FF6172CF1B.jpg) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/wsmc551/media/23882328-01D8-442B-8288-B7FF6172CF1B.jpg.html)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff146/wsmc551/B87161C7-534E-4B58-ADD9-B0D16FCB8DE2.jpg) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/wsmc551/media/B87161C7-534E-4B58-ADD9-B0D16FCB8DE2.jpg.html)
100uV span zoom, you can see the A to D resolution here.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff146/wsmc551/AC49DC33-74E3-475F-93AD-AB1A9BBD3730.jpg) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/wsmc551/media/AC49DC33-74E3-475F-93AD-AB1A9BBD3730.jpg.html)
Center comes out to 10.000008, so basically its perfectly agrees with Doug's cal. Have to get back to work, will post more later.
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Nice kj7e. :-+
Have a look through the UI for how to grab screenshots onto a USB stick.
Might be a bit simpler and faster than using a camera if you don't need to show the setup.
Looking forward to you digging deeper into this unit.
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Yes you can grab and save screen shots to the USB, but this was faster and easier in my particular case at the moment.
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I managed to get one from Batterfly... happy so far.
Noticed today that it doesn't have DHCP on the LAN setting. Come on Siglent, pull the finger out!
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Please Dave, do. I'd like to know what to expect from them.
Just because they figured their issues with chassis rust :P
Additionally, it would be interesting to see, depending on their choice of parts and Vref, if they would be able to hold on their calibration over time as HPs 3478A are doing. These HP DMMs are fascinating!
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My review of the SDM3065X is shown below:
https://youtu.be/k6HE8qV3CA4
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Please Dave, do. I'd like to know what to expect from them.
Just because they figured their issues with chassis rust :P
Additionally, it would be interesting to see, depending on their choice of parts and Vref, if they would be able to hold on their calibration over time as HPs 3478A are doing. These HP DMMs are fascinating!
The reference in the sdm3065x is a LM399.
I did some testing of both the warmup time, tempco stability, and overall calibration. So far it seems Siglent did a good job with the initial cal.
Testing some very accurate resistors;
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/resistance-standard-shielding-how-important-is-it/msg1205528/#msg1205528 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/resistance-standard-shielding-how-important-is-it/msg1205528/#msg1205528)
DC Voltage tests and tempco drift;
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/34461a-warm-up-time-vs-sdm3065x/msg1201676/#msg1201676 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/34461a-warm-up-time-vs-sdm3065x/msg1201676/#msg1201676)
I also have one of Ian Johnstons PDVS2's which also uses a LM399 reference, tested between 10mV to 10V and the two units agree almost exactly, well within the error budget of just one single unit.
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Just found out that Siglent has released a total new EasyDDM software package that supports all Siglent SDM series meters.
It is not on the main Siglent site, but I found a link on siglent.eu : https://www.siglent.eu/Downloads#Software (https://www.siglent.eu/Downloads#Software)
The version is: Version: 1.01.02.01.03 | Published | 2017-05-24
It has a totally new look and feel compared to the old version and looks much more professional:
(https://www.uploadarchief.net:443/files/download/neweasysdm.png)
Thank you Siglent !!
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I did a usage review of this software in May, it came with the SDM3065X I reviewed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqdHtDw_zgo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqdHtDw_zgo)
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Yes, the software also supports the new multi-channel scanner card option (not retrofittable) for the SDM3055 and DM3065X models. The scanner option will not be available on the SDM3045X.
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Hi there,
Is anyone knows what is the latest firmware for SDM3055 device? Siglent website does not have any updates on this subject.
Thanks in advance!
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Hi there,
Is anyone knows what is the latest firmware for SDM3055 device? Siglent website does not have any updates on this subject.
Thanks in advance!
Hello.
I show it to be
Current Version: P01.16R2 | Published?2016-03-22
It can be found at
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=2)
You will also find updated EasyDMM there as well.
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Dear Siglent,
Another question - I have not found any mentioning on possibility to measure resistance with lover voltage on leads. That feature is common on some DMMs - for example - measuring resistance with 0.2 to 0.5 V for on-board testing not to turn any semiconductor devices. Is this possible with SDM3055 or might be possible with future update?
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Dear Siglent,
Another question - I have not found any mentioning on possibility to measure resistance with lover voltage on leads. That feature is common on some DMMs - for example - measuring resistance with 0.2 to 0.5 V for on-board testing not to turn any semiconductor devices. Is this possible with SDM3055 or might be possible with future update?
Hi.
We happened to be exhibiting at a show this week and one of the larger, older test equipment companies had a booth right next to Siglent. We asked one of their people if their line of DMMs had this feature (they have many more models than do we) and he said that only one of their models did and that it was the high-end lab model. So their 4.5, 5.5, and 6.5 digit models did not.
We will enter this into our "wants list" but we know of no plans to add it in the near future.
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Thanks for this clarification. Hopefully I have Appa 109N, which being portable is capable of such a function.
I'd like to ask another question - regarding temperature measuring. I've noticed that K-type probe, which works Ok with my Appa 109N DMM is showing approx. +4 celcium degrees on SDM3055. I have found no way to calibrate it or do anything with this situation. Is there some procedure for changing ITS90 tables inside the device, or calibrating the probe?
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Thanks for this clarification. Hopefully I have Appa 109N, which being portable is capable of such a function.
I'd like to ask another question - regarding temperature measuring. I've noticed that K-type probe, which works Ok with my Appa 109N DMM is showing approx. +4 celcium degrees on SDM3055. I have found no way to calibrate it or do anything with this situation. Is there some procedure for changing ITS90 tables inside the device, or calibrating the probe?
I don't know of any user-adjustable way to change the Temperature calibration on the SDM3065X.
I noticed the accuracy of the Appa 109N is listed as 0.1% + 3 deg C.
The SDM3065X accuracy for a K thermocouple is 0.5 dec C after a 90 minute warm-up. It also has built in cold-junction compensation.
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I don't know of any user-adjustable way to change the Temperature calibration on the SDM3065X.
I noticed the accuracy of the Appa 109N is listed as 0.1% + 3 deg C.
The SDM3065X accuracy for a K thermocouple is 0.5 dec C after a 90 minute warm-up. It also has built in cold-junction compensation.
Well, yes, but temperature of my fingers cannot be 39 degrees celsius. It's more like 33-34, like Appa displays.
Anyway, will test it with other probes in a couple days.
And this is regarding SDM3055 unit, not 3065X.
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I don't know of any user-adjustable way to change the Temperature calibration on the SDM3065X.
I noticed the accuracy of the Appa 109N is listed as 0.1% + 3 deg C.
The SDM3065X accuracy for a K thermocouple is 0.5 dec C after a 90 minute warm-up. It also has built in cold-junction compensation.
Well, yes, but temperature of my fingers cannot be 39 degrees celsius. It's more like 33-34, like Appa displays.
Anyway, will test it with other probes in a couple days.
And this is regarding SDM3055 unit, not 3065X.
PM sent
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Hello,
I have an SDM3055 with firmware 1.01.01.16R2. My continuity beeper has failed. Totally silent no matter what setting. I have loaded factory defaults, still no beeper. If I go to Board Test mode and press Beeper, no sound. Has anyone else seen this?
Elrod
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Hello,
I have an SDM3055 with firmware 1.01.01.16R2. My continuity beeper has failed. Totally silent no matter what setting. I have loaded factory defaults, still no beeper. If I go to Board Test mode and press Beeper, no sound. Has anyone else seen this?
Elrod
Just checked mine...........yep you have a problem. :(
Use any of the links here to contact your closest Siglent branch for support:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=1337 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=1337)
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Hello,
I have an SDM3055 with firmware 1.01.01.16R2. My continuity beeper has failed. Totally silent no matter what setting. I have loaded factory defaults, still no beeper. If I go to Board Test mode and press Beeper, no sound. Has anyone else seen this?
Elrod
Just checked mine...........yep you have a problem. :(
Use any of the links here to contact your closest Siglent branch for support:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=1337 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=1337)
@ Elrod
Stumbled on this post about a beeper bug some time ago:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016363/#msg1016363 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1016363/#msg1016363)
Mentions toggling the beeper ON and OFF and the problem disappears. Have you tried that ?
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Yes, I have tried toggling the beeper ON and OFF. Still no beeper. I have tried leaving it unplugged for a while and loading factory settings. Total silence. Very odd. Everything else is fine. I started to open it up and see if there was a bad solder connection. I decided to check the warranty first. 3 years. I've had mine about a 1.5 years. I have tried emailing the address on the website. No reply.
Elrod
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Yes, I have tried toggling the beeper ON and OFF. Still no beeper. I have tried leaving it unplugged for a while and loading factory settings. Total silence. Very odd. Everything else is fine. I started to open it up and see if there was a bad solder connection. I decided to check the warranty first. 3 years. I've had mine about a 1.5 years. I have tried emailing the address on the website. No reply.
Elrod
Which email ?
There is no info in your profile to indicate which part of the world you are in so I can't recommend one in your timezone.
Yes the warranty is 3 years, please don't open it before you hear from a Siglent rep.
They will advise you of the next steps you need to take.
Have you contacted your supplier ?
BTW, just shot an email to the factory tech support...........they may PM you.
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It seems that this is their very first multimeter ever released. Then I do not want it. It has a color LCD, so it must be full of bugs.
I would trust GW Instek multimeters instead. Yes, they make some so-so scopes, but they still work as promised. Almost.
"This multimeter has a color LCD, so it must be full of bugs"
I love it.
My sentiments exactly.
I will let them work out the issues for a year or two and we will see :)
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Tautech,
I have updated my profile. I sent an email to info@siglent.com. I bought the SDM3055 from TEquipment.net who I believe no longer carry Siglent.
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Tautech,
I have updated my profile. I sent an email to info@siglent.com. I bought the SDM3055 from TEquipment.net who I believe no longer carry Siglent.
Good.
Check you profile for a PM from the factory otherwise Steve and the guys for Ohio will be in touch.
Factory Tech support mentioned to me it is most likely a buzzer HW failure and they will fix it.
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I received an email from Siglent in Ohio and it included an RMA number. My SDM3055 is on its way for repair.
Thank You Tautech
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Tautech,
I have updated my profile. I sent an email to info@siglent.com. I bought the SDM3055 from TEquipment.net who I believe no longer carry Siglent.
Good.
Check you profile for a PM from the factory otherwise Steve and the guys for Ohio will be in touch.
Factory Tech support mentioned to me it is most likely a buzzer HW failure and they will fix it.
Is Steve with Micro Sales on Perimeter Loop in Dublin Ohio?
I'll actually be in Columbus about 15 miles from those guys from the 14th through the 22nd on business. I wonder if I could get a demo unit from them to play with.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
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Tautech,
I have updated my profile. I sent an email to info@siglent.com. I bought the SDM3055 from TEquipment.net who I believe no longer carry Siglent.
Good.
Check you profile for a PM from the factory otherwise Steve and the guys for Ohio will be in touch.
Factory Tech support mentioned to me it is most likely a buzzer HW failure and they will fix it.
Is Steve with Micro Sales on Perimeter Loop in Dublin Ohio?
No.
This Steve:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=97174 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=97174)
SIGLENT Technologies America, Inc
6557 Cochran Rd Solon, Ohio 44139
I'm sure they'd show you all you needed to know if you popped by.
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For owners of SDM3065X ONLY, there is new firmware.
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6414&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6414&tid=15)
Version: V3.01.01.03
6.9 Mb
Changelog
1. Add U disk recovery function.
2. Add the update of the calibration data function.
3. Fix the bug of a few abnormal DCV measurements when the input terminal is shorted .
4. Repair the external trigger problem.
5. Some FPGA optimizations.
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The SDM3055 also got new firmware:
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6413&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6413&tid=15)
ReleaseDate
8/31/2017 1:53:15 AM
Version: V1.01.01.19
Imprint
1. Add U disk recovery function.
2. Modify Hold function arithmetic.
3. Add the telnet SCPI function.
4. Repair the external trig problem.
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Thanx Eric-H !
Just installed on my SDM3055 and installation went fine. The beeper bug I reported before is also solved. Thank you Siglent !
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To add to the other recent SDM30** FW:
SDM3045X
Version: V5.01.01.03
6.7 Mb
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6427&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6427&tid=15)
Changelog
1. Add U disk recovery function.
2. Modify Hold function arithmetic.
3. Add the telnet SCPI function; port is 5024
Example: telnet 192.168.0.105024
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Few months usage of SDM3065X behind, I just quickly verified that the equipment is still rust free ;) It looks like cutting edges of metal parts are coated or galvanized to black finish.
The reference voltage source is LM399H as expected and seems to be good enough for 6.5 digit multimeter. I can see clear difference in build quality and PCB layout comparing to the SDM3055 in Dave’s teardown, new teardown for SDM3065X would be nice to see from Dave :)
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Hi,
There is a bug that was identified in this meter 3045X that is shown in the linked video from TRX bench. When he measures the DC offset (2V) of a 1Khz sine wave the Siglent measures low. Does anyone who has used this multi meter know if this is a real bug and if so has it been fixed. The current firmware seems to be 2 minor versions ahead of the version in the video (5.1.1.1 vs 5.1.1.3). https://youtu.be/K09BLgyk9Hg?t=58m15s (https://youtu.be/K09BLgyk9Hg?t=58m15s)
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I tried to recreate that bug but i wasnt able to. My meter is on version 5.1.1.3.
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Anyone know why the scanner card is a factory installed option only? It's not like you don't remove it to wire it up. I've been eyeing the 3065x but am not sure if/when I might want the scanner card. Things would be much simpler if it could be added at any time.
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Anyone know why the scanner card is a factory installed option only? It's not like you don't remove it to wire it up. I've been eyeing the 3065x but am not sure if/when I might want the scanner card. Things would be much simpler if it could be added at any time.
Hi Joel,
I understand and asked Engineering this question last year myself. It turns out that we have to install one or more additional ICs, on the main PCB of the DMM for that scanner card, that are not installed otherwise. There also may have been an additional connector that the standard unit does not have.
So it involves soldering SMD devices and connectors - which is why it is not retrofittable - and I believe the factory opted to keep the price down for a standard unit and leave those parts out.
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That's unfortunate. Are the modules available separately so that test setups can be pre-wired?
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That's unfortunate. Are the modules available separately so that test setups can be pre-wired?
The scanner card is tested and shipped with the unit so it cannot be pre-ordered. The scanner connections are quick-release so they shouldn't take long to wire up.
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These kind of connections should be made using pluggable terminal blocks so it is easier to use one piece of equipment in multiple test setups. This is not just my opinion but that of several of my customers when I design products for them.
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That's unfortunate. Are the modules available separately so that test setups can be pre-wired?
Maybe.
Part of the reason they're not available as a post sales option (other than already mentioned) is all the 16 channels are connected to a calibrator and the base unit card inputs settings saved as particular to that scanner card.
Anyways, good question and one we'll need to ask the factory after their hols.
There is the owners option to build a wired test header and externally terminate into an array/selection of test looms to suit your needs. 110VAC and 2.3A max ratings needs to be observed in the choice of header.
Oh, and NO hot plugging of the scanner card.
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It will be interesting to hear what they say. From my personal use perspective, it is probably not much of a hassle. In a past life I did reliability and qualification testing, swapping wires would not have been acceptable and an external dongle barely so. And if it's true that each card is somehow matched to the meter, that would have been a deal breaker.
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It will be interesting to hear what they say. From my personal use perspective, it is probably not much of a hassle. In a past life I did reliability and qualification testing, swapping wires would not have been acceptable and an external dongle barely so. And if it's true that each card is somehow matched to the meter, that would have been a deal breaker.
Give me a reminder about this, say by the end of Feb.
It maybe just to calibrate out the meter to scanner card signal path and maybe the cards CAN be swapped, this I would hope is the case.
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I received an email from Siglent in Ohio and it included an RMA number. My SDM3055 is on its way for repair.
Lucky you; my SDS1202X-E that's 8 months old has the "in specification" 'feature' that requires me to re-adjust the probe compensation every time I change the Y range and all I got from Steve was surface mount capacitors sent to me as a DIY fix - oh and if I mess it up, my warranty's voided.
I have a Keysight 34461A 6.5 digit multimeter, it's great.
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Even KS has their issues, I was about to buy one of those when the max voltage issue came up. Checking a datasheet recently it looks like it's back to 1000V. If it was a HW change, wonder what they did for customers with downgraded units.
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Apparently there never was an actual issue.
Someone said there might be so they took the safe route and degraded the meter while investigating after which it was determined to not be an issue so they changed the rating back. As far as I could understand from the interview Dave did with the Keysight rep they did do any changes to the hardware so they're all rated the same.
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That's good to hear. That was the impression I got while reading through the thread. Glad things are back to "normal".
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After years of avoiding buying a bench DMM because as a hobbyist I really didn't need one I finally had a moment of weakness last year when the ITT surplus GWInstek GDM-8251A meters dropped to under $100 and bought one. Have enjoyed using it so much over the last year that lately I've been looking at some newer bench meters and finally settled on a Siglent SDM3055. I've had it for a little over a week now, and am really impressed with it. (one of) The obvious benefit over the GDM-8251A is the ease of configuring and setting up measurements since it has a bigger screen with soft buttons and menus (not just initial setup, but easily switching between options on different measurements). Also really liking being able to do the trend graphing directly on the meter, instead of always having to offload to the computer first. The EasyDMM software seems to work very well too for the times where I do want to capture the data on the computer.
I had ordered three of the different cheap ebay AD584 voltage references as well last year around the same time as the GDM-8251A. One of them came with a printed sheet of supposed measurements, that appeared to not have probably been real measurements (saw that several other people that ordered same one received identical printed "measurements"). However the other 2 references had the hand written measurements which at the time did seem to be realistic as measured by each of my other meters. I had documented what each of my meters measured at the time I received them, and rechecked both references again last week a both still measured the same with the GDM-8251A. Measuring with the new SDM3055 (so obviously had recently been factory calibrated) both references measured essentially spot on, with the better (at least more expensive) reference measured exactly what was printed on it, down to the last digit of the meter (though since the reference had been measured with a higher resolution meter by the seller, it showed one more digit than the SDM3055 was capable of). And even leaving the measurement for each range running all day, it stayed within 1 LSD. I realize they are just cheap ebay references, and may not ultimately mean anything, but was just surprised by that result.
I wanted to add my initial experience for anyone else considering one of these, but also wanted to give a big thank you to Tautech. Even though I never spoke directly to him about this purchase, every single question I had about the meter while researching I was able to find someone else had already asked, and every time Tautech had already given a detailed response to the question.
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Hi, i am looking for a new DMM for the bench, i do like the Siglent SDM3055, old guy's love the big screen, and a nice price :-DD, i did see it on the site here:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-db.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=-1 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-db.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=-1)
that there was a new model, the big bumpers from the X versions are now on it, also I've seen it on a video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wFlBXL66B0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wFlBXL66B0)
Are there more changes, maybe in the hardware, or is it only new looks, but in the inside the same (old) hardware.
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Hi, i am looking for a new DMM for the bench, i do like the Siglent SDM3055, old guy's love the big screen, and a nice price :-DD, i did see it on the site here:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-db.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=-1 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-db.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=-1)
that there was a new model, the big bumpers from the X versions are now on it, also I've seen it on a video here:
Are there more changes, maybe in the hardware, or is it only new looks, but in the inside the same (old) hardware.
Welcome to the forum.
For your part of the world Siglent in Hamburg have a more local to you website:
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-multimeters/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-multimeters/)
Thanks for sharing the vid....shame the reviewer didn't have another set of Kelvin clips for a better 'apples vs apples' comparison.
I'm not aware of any changes to the HW other than 'X' model bumpers.
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The SDM3055 without the X but with the X look (like SDM3045X and SDM3065X)
(https://www.circuitsonline.net/forum/file/30557)
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The SDM3055 without the X but with the X look (like SDM3045X and SDM3065X)
[img]https://www.circuitsonline.net/forum/file/30557[/
Yep. I guess it's confusing one way or the other. To X or not to X. :-//
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Hi, i am looking for a new DMM for the bench, i do like the Siglent SDM3055, old guy's love the big screen, and a nice price :-DD, i did see it on the site here:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-db.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=-1 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-db.aspx?id=176&tid=37&T=-1)
that there was a new model, the big bumpers from the X versions are now on it, also I've seen it on a video here:
Are there more changes, maybe in the hardware, or is it only new looks, but in the inside the same (old) hardware.
Welcome to the forum.
For your part of the world Siglent in Hamburg have a more local to you website:
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-multimeters/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-multimeters/)
Thanks for sharing the vid....shame the reviewer didn't have another set of Kelvin clips for a better 'apples vs apples' comparison.
I'm not aware of any changes to the HW other than 'X' model bumpers.
Thx,
there they have the old pictures on that site, i did ask the local shop (eleshop) here in the Netherlands, if they have the new model, and they did not now, so they send me a picture of what they have there, and it was the new model, the 3055 (X version).
i am still thinking about the 3045X or do i buy the new 3055, its only 100 euro price difference, and the 3055 has the extra filter for the dc what you can turn on and off, and 1 digit more on the screen, only the accuracy i do not understand, the 3055 is 0,015%, and the 3045X is 0,01%.
wy is the 3045X better, and its just a 4,5 digit meter 60 K counts, and the 3055 is 5,5 digit meter and 240 k counts i belief, wy only 0,015% accuracy.
i like to order next week, help me please to decide which meter is the best for me, i do not have the money to buy twice, i also was thinking about the Rigol DM3058E but the screen is not so nice to see, and it has no lan, i am not blind, but i like to have a easy to read screen, yes, old guy, i need glasses to see the Rigol meter 8).
i realy do not need the accuracy of a 5,5 digit meter, but its nice to have i think for 100 euro more, maybe later you need to have it for a project, but when the meter is less accurate, then you have nothing on that 1 digit more.
sorry my bad english, but i do my best to learn it, and i did not have the time to look things up, and paint it :-DD
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RF_Energy
All models have had the X bumpers for a while now, any that don't will be very old stock.
You are best to make the decision yourself but I will add I have sold 5:1 in favor of SDM3055.
I also know it will hold its value better and be more sought after.
WRT accuracy, I have not tested one against the other (no suitable reference) but I would have expected the 3055 to be better now than early units and maybe the datasheet just reflects early 3055 model spec ?
Good luck.
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We need to distinguish resolution from accuracy. There are many tasks that don’t require absolute accuracy, but high resolution with good short term stability.
Then the specifications of SDM3045 and 3055 are not directly comparable, because the offset error is specified differently. Also the ranges are different and the SDM3055 has only four times the resolution of a SDM3045. For certain voltages the SDM3045 might be actually better suited than the 3055.
It should also be noted that the SDM3045 has 0.02% error for voltages higher than 6V whereas the SDM3055 has a constant error of 0.015% up to 1000V and accuracy is also specified for the temperature range outside the 23°C +/-5°C window. These facts alone hint on a higher class meter.
What really counts in the end is the total error of the measured value – and the available resolution. The comparison looks like this:
SDM3045 SDM3055
Voltage Error Resolution Error Resolution
2V 0,035% 100uV 0,018% 10uV
5V 0,020% 100uV 0,031% 100uV
10V 0,060% 1mV 0,023% 100uV
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yea, oke i see, thx to you all, for the fast and good reply's, i know now i have to buy the siglent sdm-3055, i hope that it wil serve me many years to com.
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I'm starting to look around for a bench top DMM, and have my eye on an SDM3065X, but the problem I have is I live in Japan...
Looks like it's the usual story of being stuck with barely any selection of only lower spec units (It's a bit more of a common problem than I would like... Japan likes to stick itself in the past, not to progressive in many ways.)
http://www.siglent.jp/html/modules/pico/index.php?content_id=39 (http://www.siglent.jp/html/modules/pico/index.php?content_id=39)
Is there any way to get an SDM3065X in Japan?
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I'm starting to look around for a bench top DMM, and have my eye on an SDM3065X, but the problem I have is I live in Japan...
Looks like it's the usual story of being stuck with barely any selection of only lower spec units (It's a bit more of a common problem than I would like... Japan likes to stick itself in the past, not to progressive in many ways.)
http://www.siglent.jp/html/modules/pico/index.php?content_id=39 (http://www.siglent.jp/html/modules/pico/index.php?content_id=39)
Is there any way to get an SDM3065X in Japan?
In the first instance I would contact the sales team at the factory on Shenzhen.
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=1337 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=1337)
They can see if their distributor has stock and get them to contact you directly. This should only take a few hours.
I know factory staff travel to Japan for exhibitions and after sales support so your location should be no problem to get Siglent products.
PS. I'll email my contact and maybe you'll get a PM from him.
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Please take the cover off and post a few internal photos :-+
I have a SDM3065X in the lab, I think it will be my next teardown.
One year later. Dave did not find the time to do a teardown. No one else has done a teardown yet. I am sad. I was so excited about this announcement.
Anyway....
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Please take the cover off and post a few internal photos :-+
I have a SDM3065X in the lab, I think it will be my next teardown.
One year later. Dave did not find the time to do a teardown. No one else has done a teardown yet. I am sad. I was so excited about this announcement.
Anyway....
If you're looking for pics of the insides see post #337
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1329966/#msg1329966 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1329966/#msg1329966)
The internal layout is very similar to the 3055 and 3045X but the 3065X has a bigger footprint so the 3065X mainboard is a little larger and the vacant mounting hole near the main IC is just one of the mounting points used for the HW that carries the optional 16ch SC1016 logging card. In units with these factory fitted cards there is a custom frame that carries the logging card and some additional wiring and sockets for it to plug into.
Hope that helps.
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I own a Siglent SDM3055 with V1.01.01.19 firmware.
The SDM3055 has an option to select Speed with Fast, Medium and Slow as option.
The new SDM3045X and SDM3065X have also a similar option which is renamed to Apperture with option using PLC (power line cycles), which is much more usefull.
Now my question, does anyone know how many the number of PLCs for Fast, Medium and Slow ?
Also, using EasyDMM the SDM3055 is able to log into a file, but there are always (no matter what you do) 5 readings per second in the log file. There is not way to control the measurement interval. Is there anyway to control the measurement interval either with EasyDMM or using Acquire from the instrument?
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I own a Siglent SDM3055 with V1.01.01.19 firmware.
The SDM3055 has an option to select Speed with Fast, Medium and Slow as option.
The new SDM3045X and SDM3065X have also a similar option which is renamed to Apperture with option using PLC (power line cycles), which is much more usefull.
Now my question, does anyone know how many the number of PLCs for Fast, Medium and Slow ?
Also, using EasyDMM the SDM3055 is able to log into a file, but there are always (no matter what you do) 5 readings per second in the log file. There is not way to control the measurement interval. Is there anyway to control the measurement interval either with EasyDMM or using Acquire from the instrument?
Great question !
I've tried my SDM3065X and indeed the measurement speed options are far better....from 100 PLC, 10, 1, 0.5, 0.05, to 0.005.
I'll shoot Siglent an email to see if there's plans to bring the reading speed to the same format in all SDM30** models and seek an answer to your other logging question.
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So the 3065X has 6 settings, curious if the 3045X also has 6.
A mapping of Slow --> xx PLC's, Medium --> yy PLC's and fast --> zz PLC's would already be helpfull.
Hoping for some clarification soon.
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So the 3065X has 6 settings, curious if the 3045X also has 6.
A mapping of Slow --> xx PLC's, Medium --> yy PLC's and fast --> zz PLC's would already be helpfull.
Hoping for some clarification soon.
100 PLC is slowest, I tried to time it with a stopwatch and got a reading of ~3s/reading.
Doesn't really make sense, our NZ mains is 50 Hz so it should be ~2s/reading but it could be system to display latency in measurements, don't know.
Anyways, at the faster settings there's only so fast the display can keep up with so the fastest settings don't show crazy fast display refresh rates once you get past 1PLC settings.
Probably should try some USB stick CSV saves to see the difference......but not tonight.
No reply from Siglent as yet.
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So the 3065X has 6 settings, curious if the 3045X also has 6.
A mapping of Slow --> xx PLC's, Medium --> yy PLC's and fast --> zz PLC's would already be helpfull.
Hoping for some clarification soon.
No. My 3045X only has the three speed options. It has the latest firmware.
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Logging with EasyDMM has always 5 samples per second (regardless Speed) so that equals to 10 PLC (NL mains is 50Hz)
BillB, what values of PLC has your 3045X ? (generally more digit meters have more PLC settings)
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Logging with EasyDMM has always 5 samples per second (regardless Speed) so that equals to 10 PLC (NL mains is 50Hz)
BillB, what values of PLC has your 3045X ? (generally more digit meters have more PLC settings)
From the 3045X user's guide:
1. Three reading rates are available for DCV, ACV, DCI, ACI and 2-Wire/4-Wire Resistance: “Slow”, “Middle” and “Fast”.
2. There is a linkage for both reading resolution and reading (measurement) rate.
3. 5 reading/s and 50 reading/s belongs to 4.5 digit resolution.
4. 150 reading/s belong to 3.5 digit resolution.
5. The reading resolution of Temperature is fixed at 4.5 digit and “Fast” respectively.
6. The reading resolutions and measurement rates of both Diode and Continuity are fixed at 4.5 digit and “Fast” respectively.
7. The reading resolution and measurement rate of the Frequency function are fixed 4.5 digit and “Slow” respectively.
8. The reading resolution and measurement rate of the Capacitance function are fixed at 3.5 digit and “Slow” respectively.
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Who offers best price for SDM3065X in EU these days?
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Is there anything better in the newer SDM3045X than in the SDM3055? The price difference here seem to be £60. Any new features?
I have not spotted anything significant when trying to compare, it's just not always so clear which one is better or worse; think of high square-wave output of the new 'lower end' Siglent AWGs, for example. So I am basically after a DMM and AWG, and possibly SA/VNA as well when I can afford.
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I don't think there is anything better with the 3045X over the 3055, other than maybe it doesn't have a fan so it is quiet. Other than the resolution, accuracy, ranges and the few differences already discussed I don't see any differences in features. I don't remember seeing any feature the 3045X has that the 3055 does not.
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That's what I thought. So the sweet spot here seems to be the 3055.
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That's what I thought. So the sweet spot here seems to be the 3055.
Definitely. For the price difference, I think it's worth it to step up to the 3055.
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Is the SDM3055 discontinued? I'm starting to see it disappear? OOS on Amazon (damn, was a good price)
https://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDM3055/Benchtop-Multimeter/ (https://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDM3055/Benchtop-Multimeter/)
These items are discontinued from the TEquipment catalog and are no longer stocked at TEquipment.
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Is the SDM3055 discontinued? I'm starting to see it disappear? OOS on Amazon (damn, was a good price)
No, it's still a current model.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/digital-multimeters/sdm3055-5-%C2%BD-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeters/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/digital-multimeters/sdm3055-5-%C2%BD-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeters/)
There is sometimes confusion as it's not advertised as an X model as their release predates the X ranges of Siglent equipment. However the X model rubber bumpers are now fitted on SDM3055 so they look the same as an X model.
https://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDM3055/Benchtop-Multimeter/ (https://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDM3055/Benchtop-Multimeter/)
These items are discontinued from the TEquipment catalog and are no longer stocked at TEquipment.
Correct, TQ are no longer Siglent agents and haven't been for some time.
Saelig now offer similar discounts and have a thread where you can ask for the EEVblog member discount code.
Otherwise your closest NA dealer can be found here:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/how-to-buy/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/how-to-buy/)
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Hi,
Tautech asked me to post some pictures of the 3045X internals.
So here goes:
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That's what I thought. So the sweet spot here seems to be the 3055.
Definitely. For the price difference, I think it's worth it to step up to the 3055.
I'm looking to get my first bench DMM, and the Siglent ones look very tempting. However I'm also quite baffled by the pricing of the 3045X vs 3055. My main usage would be <20V, so as far as I can understand I'd get a lot more bang for just a few more bucks with the 3055.
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“Saelig now offer similar discounts and have a thread where you can ask for the EEVblog member discount code.”
Crap, I just a Siglent Function Generator and a Siglent 200Mhz Four Channel scope from them, through Amazon. I didn’t know to ask for an EEVBlog Forum discount 8-(
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New firmware for SDM3065X models.
3.01.01.06R2
8.3 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8445/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8445/)
Changelog
1. Add DHCP function to IP addressing
2. Add Open Socket at LAN port 5025
3. Add over current protect function in a special case
4. Fix a crash fault when restoring settings
5. Modify the calibration arithmetic in 2-wire resistance measurement 10 MOhm range
6. Add “ABORT BULK IN” ,”INITIATE CLEAR” features to remote SCPI commands
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Hello everybody,
I would like to share my bad experience with the SDM3065x DMM which I got today.
It is a brand new, out of the box unit and guess what...It doesn't turn on!
Actually what it does is that it loads the boot screen with the fancy Siglent logo and stays there for ever.
I have prepared a video showing the problem and I will send it to my distributor's help center first thing tomorrow morning, asking for immediate replacement.
By the way did anyone else have the same problem?
For those interested to see the video I have a low res version in this (http://www.dropbox.com/s/dxnxbs6u8wtxzr1/SDM3065x_Boot_Problem.mp4?dl=0) dropbox link.
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Hello everybody,
I would like to share my bad experience with the SDM3065x DMM which I got today.
It is a brand new, out of the box unit and guess what...It doesn't turn on!
Actually what it does is that it loads the boot screen with the fancy Siglent logo and stays there for ever.
I have prepared a video showing the problem and I will send it to my distributor's help center first thing tomorrow morning, asking for immediate replacement.
By the way did anyone else have the same problem?
For those interested to see the video I have a low res version in this (http://www.dropbox.com/s/dxnxbs6u8wtxzr1/SDM3065x_Boot_Problem.mp4?dl=0) dropbox link.
Welcome to the forum.
Oh dear that is not a good first experience. :-//
By PM I send a link for the USB recovery package.
Unpack the ZIP file and carefully follow instructions.
Please report outcome.
Edit to add:
When recovered be sure to update the firmware to the latest version:
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3065x-series (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3065x-series)
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tautech thank you very much for your help and for your fast response.
It works!!!
I was aware of the new version so I have already done this update to the latest FW.
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tautech thank you very much for your help and for your fast response.
It works!!!
I was aware of the new version so I have already done this update to the latest FW.
Great ! :clap:
I think it should give no further issues. Enjoy. :)
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Hello,
I have a SDM3055 and Im very happy with it.
I bought it before Siglent release the SDM3065X.
I also have a SDG2082X.....It is so stupid but I have on the SDM3055 the old model bumpers.
Is it possible to buy and change the old bumpers by the ones from the model X ?
It will look nicer on my bench 8)
I will buy in the next few weeks a SVA1015X from Batronix, maybe with the help of Siglent, il will be possible to add those bumpers in the package ?
I also have a SDS2204X so I am unintentionally a siglent guy ;D
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Hello,
I have a SDM3055 and Im very happy with it.
I bought it before Siglent release the SDM3065X.
I also have a SDG2082X.....It is so stupid but I have on the SDM3055 the old model bumpers.
Is it possible to buy and change the old bumpers by the ones from the model X ?
Yes early SDS3055 did not have the X model bumpers but they all have them now. :)
Siglent have not changed the SDM3055 model name to 3055X to avoid confusion.
You will need to have your supplier order the X model bumpers for you.
They should not be very expensive .......a replacement tilting bail handle I got that fits all SDM and SDG models was only a few $.
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Thank you for your answer, I will ask them :)
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Hello,
I have a SDM3055 and Im very happy with it.
I bought it before Siglent release the SDM3065X.
I also have a SDG2082X.....It is so stupid but I have on the SDM3055 the old model bumpers.
Is it possible to buy and change the old bumpers by the ones from the model X ?
It will look nicer on my bench 8)
I will buy in the next few weeks a SVA1015X from Batronix, maybe with the help of Siglent, il will be possible to add those bumpers in the package ?
I also have a SDS2204X so I am unintentionally a siglent guy ;D
I have been in contact with Siglent Europe about your request and think the answer might be of public interest:
According to the information from the Siglent factory in Shenzhen, the new X-series bumpers do not fit the old SDM3055 models.
Siglent Europe would have been glad to help you with this, but unfortuantely it won't work.
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I have an SDM3065X. And an SDG2042.
If Siglent were a normal company they would have rack mounting hardware such that my meters could be mounted side-by-side, using a total of 2U. Not so, SDG-RMK is not of this world, it's the freak show of rackmounting kits. What is it whith chinese design, or rather the lack of it? Like the new Rigol SG:s, or ... SDG-RMK.
Also, calibration documentation for SDM3065X will be finished by June ... 2035.
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SDM3065X Service manuals are available from the Siglent websites now.
For adjustment of these models please study the appropriate section carefully for the equipment and software requirements.
The equipment listed as required is:
Calibrator: FLUKE 5522A
High precision digital multimeter：HP3458A
Computer: Windows system
Software
Python
Microsoft Office 2007 or higher
NI-VISA
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tautech thank you very much for your help and for your fast response.
It works!!!
I was aware of the new version so I have already done this update to the latest FW.
I’m late to this thread - just happened to be reading up on graphing DMMs....
Wow - Impressive recovery capability in the Siglent design and very impressive support by tautech!
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I have an SDM3065X. And an SDG2042.
If Siglent were a normal company they would have rack mounting hardware such that my meters could be mounted side-by-side, using a total of 2U. Not so, SDG-RMK is not of this world, it's the freak show of rackmounting kits. What is it whith chinese design, or rather the lack of it? Like the new Rigol SG:s, or ... SDG-RMK.
I asked about dual rack mounts a few weeks back and forgot to post about them.......they're coming !
Dunno any time frames but suggest you keep a watch on Siglent websites for them.
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Some questions about SDM3045X statistics, specifically the min/max function and memory depth.
See photo; I am doing long term (several days) monitoring of a DC voltage. When the photo was taken I was at over one million samples and everything seemed to be working fine (ignore the ghosting in the displayed value - it's just normal flicker versus camera exposure time).
Questions:
1- What is the sample rate? It is clearly several times per second but I can't find an actual specification in the documentation.
2- What is the maximum number of samples possible before I run out of memory? Again, can't find this in the specs.
3- What happens when I run out of memory? Does it flush the stored data and start over, or just stop running, or what?
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
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1 - The sample rate is set by the Speed softkey (2nd softkey after pressing DCV button). For the 3045X three reading rates are available for DCV, ACV, DCI, ACI and -Wire/4-Wire Resistance: “Slow”, “Middle” and “Fast”:
There is a linkage for both reading resolution and reading (measurement) rate.
5 reading/s and 50 reading/s belongs to 4.5 digit resolution.
150 reading/s belong to 3.5 digit resolution.
The reading resolution of Temperature is fixed at 4.5 digit and “Fast” respectively.
The reading resolutions and measurement rates of both Diode and Continuity are fixed at 4.5 digit and “Fast” respectively.
The reading resolution and measurement rate of the Frequency function are fixed 4.5 digit and “Slow” respectively.
The reading resolution and measurement rate of the Capacitance function are fixed at 3.5 digit and “Slow” respectively.
2 - According to the manual, the sample field for triggering has a limit of 599999999. So that's my guess for max samples.
3 - Don't know what happens when it reaches the limit; it probably starts at 0.
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What's the difference between the DMMs on a schematic level? Like, do they use different references, ADC, etc?
Is there any measurements of noise (not acoustic noise, but measurement noise) and stability?
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What's the difference between the DMMs on a schematic level? Like, do they use different references, ADC, etc?
SDM3045X and 3055 are very similar and the jury is still out as to they might be the same excepting displayed digits.
However they each use different firmware which might indicate there are internal differences.
There's PCB pics of each model earlier in this thread.
SDM3065X is different and uses the LM399 Vref.
Is there any measurements of noise (not acoustic noise, but measurement noise) and stability?
Compare the datasheets. ;)
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Compare the datasheets. ;)
Datasheets don't tell the whole story ;).
Nice units, too bad SDM3065X costs too close to DMM6500 :(. Although, the latter is too big to fit my bench... Dilemma.
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Nice units, too bad SDM3065X costs too close to DMM6500 :(. Although, the latter is too big to fit my bench... Dilemma.
Here in the US its $729 vs $1095, that's 50% more expensive.
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Here in the US its $729 vs $1095, that's 50% more expensive.
In EU it's like 820euro vs ~1030, which is ~27%. Significant difference, but not that important to me. I also trust Tek a little bit more, they even specify 2year cal specs.
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Hi,
Welectron offers them at this moment for 688,24€ and 806,72€ exVAT, only a 17% up.
regards
Calvin
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Dear EEVBlogger,
someone there who could explain to me the difference
in HW version 02-02-00-05-00 vers 01-01-00-02-00 of the
SDM3065X device.
Is there a drawback baying a 01-01-00-02-00 device
instead of the 02-02-00-05-00 version, concerning
precision, stability or lifetime of such a device?
My second question concerning the SDM3065X is,
if there is a possibility to scale a voltage measured
via a current shunt in order to match the display.
Many shunts offered will have a 75mV full range
voltage at the terminals.
100mV shunts are difficult to find and they are
more expensive.
perhaps this could be done by the math menu?
Many thanks in advance for your anwser and clarification.
Markus
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I have an SDM3065X. And an SDG2042.
If Siglent were a normal company they would have rack mounting hardware such that my meters could be mounted side-by-side, using a total of 2U. Not so, SDG-RMK is not of this world, it's the freak show of rackmounting kits. What is it whith chinese design, or rather the lack of it? Like the new Rigol SG:s, or ... SDG-RMK.
I asked about dual rack mounts a few weeks back and forgot to post about them.......they're coming !
Dunno any time frames but suggest you keep a watch on Siglent websites for them.
The new dual rack mount is listed as # SDG-2-RMK on P85 of the latest catalog:
Rackmount kit for two instruments , compatible with the SDG800, SDG1000, SDG1000X,SDG2000X, SDG5000 and SDG6000X series function generator and SDM3045X, SDM3055, SDM3065X digital multimeters
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8263/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8263/)
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Hi All,
My SDM3045X compared to my SDM3055 and Fluke 187 has only on the DC range and mostly on the 6 volt range an diviation of 5.4 milivolt :wtf:
now i want to correct this so i am looking for these files from Siglent
According to the SDM3045XService Manual i need these python scripts
The python scripts include 8items as the following:
DCV_Cal: Calibrate DCV function
ACV_Cal: Calibrate ACV function
DCI_Cal: Calibrate DCI function
ACI_Cal: Calibrate ACI function
R2W_Cal: Calibrate 2 wire resistance function
R4W_Cal: Calibrate 4 wire resistance function
CAP_Cal: Calibrate Capacitance function
TEMP_Cal: Calibrate Temperature function
i have access to a calibrated Fluke 5522A so this must be appeltje eitje :-+
thanks in regards
Mischa
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@ doddemail
Welcome to the forum.
Before you consider calibration adjustments please check measurements again with concern over possible EMI/RFI and your DC source is accurate and clean without ripple or other interference.
The latest Service manual and datasheet with accuracy specs can be downloaded here:
https://www.siglenteu.com/resources/documents/digital-multimeter/#sdm3045x-series (https://www.siglenteu.com/resources/documents/digital-multimeter/#sdm3045x-series)
You will need all the specified equipment to attempt calibration (HW and SW) and the Hamburg office should be able to provide you with Cal scripts on request.
https://www.siglenteu.com/contact-us/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/contact-us/)
I would provide them with evidence of the measurement errors to enforce your need for the Cal scripts.
Please report the outcome.
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I take it there are no useful hacks to be performed on a sdm3045x?
What other use could there be for having free root access to the OS of such a device?
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I take it there are no useful hacks to be performed on a sdm3045x?
None that anybody's been willing to try.....but sure it's been considered here before now.
What other use could there be for having free root access to the OS of such a device?
SCPI commands, see Reply #336
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Does SCPI via telnet to port 5024 require root access to the OS? REALLY??
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Does SCPI via telnet to port 5024 require root access to the OS? REALLY??
No. Not for normal SCPI use.
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Does SCPI via telnet to port 5024 require root access to the OS? REALLY??
There is no OS in these equipments so you can't access the OS! It's only a single "application" running. :palm:
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Does SCPI via telnet to port 5024 require root access to the OS? REALLY??
There is no OS in these equipments so you can't access the OS! It's only a single "application" running.
I wrote my question after seeing your post, tv84, about a set of ads files containing a script giving password free root access telnet to port 1101.
And that set included one for the sdm3045x.
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Does SCPI via telnet to port 5024 require root access to the OS? REALLY??
There is no OS in these equipments so you can't access the OS! It's only a single "application" running.
I wrote my question after seeing your post, tv84, about a set of ads files containing a script giving password free root access telnet to port 1101.
And that set included one for the sdm3045x.
n3mmr,
Please accept my apologies!! I should have stayed silent... |O |O |O (getting old... :palm: )
Of course they have an OS. You can easily see that in the parsings:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1335892/#msg1335892 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1335892/#msg1335892)
You have scripts for the 3 models:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
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Does SCPI via telnet to port 5024 require root access to the OS? REALLY??
There is no OS in these equipments so you can't access the OS! It's only a single "application" running.
I wrote my question after seeing your post, tv84, about a set of ads files containing a script giving password free root access telnet to port 1101.
And that set included one for the sdm3045x.
n3mmr,
Please accept my apologies!! I should have stayed silent... |O |O |O (getting old... :palm: )
Of course they have an OS. You can easily see that in the parsings:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1335892/#msg1335892 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1335892/#msg1335892)
You have scripts for the 3 models:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
Don't fret! I've done worse!
Question remains, though, are there any useful changes or hacks that can be inflicted on a 3045x thru that telnet access?
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Question remains, though, are there any useful changes or hacks that can be inflicted on a 3045x thru that telnet access?
The 3045X has about 99% of the features of the 3055. I think there have been images posted of the internals of both units, but I don't know if there has been any conclusion about physical differences. I know the 3055 has a fan and the 3045X doesn't. I haven't delved too far into the configuration files, but short of exceeding the safe limits put in place ranges, I don't know that there is anything useful that can be done to improve the 3045X.
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Deeper investigations:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-siglent-sdm3055/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-siglent-sdm3055/)
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Hi,
Just got my labview home bundle and discovered that the siglent labview driver that you can download from siglentna.com is too new. The Labview Home is based on Labview 2014.
Anyone got labview 2014 drivers for the 3045X?
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Thanks for this clarification. Hopefully I have Appa 109N, which being portable is capable of such a function.
I'd like to ask another question - regarding temperature measuring. I've noticed that K-type probe, which works Ok with my Appa 109N DMM is showing approx. +4 celcium degrees on SDM3055. I have found no way to calibrate it or do anything with this situation. Is there some procedure for changing ITS90 tables inside the device, or calibrating the probe?
I don't know of any user-adjustable way to change the Temperature calibration on the SDM3065X.
I noticed the accuracy of the Appa 109N is listed as 0.1% + 3 deg C.
The SDM3065X accuracy for a K thermocouple is 0.5 dec C after a 90 minute warm-up. It also has built in cold-junction compensation.
Hi,
I have the same problem with SDM3065X . All K-Type probes I tested, show variations +/- 5 degree C .
How can I use temp. measurement function on this instrument ?
There are a specific probe that can be used ?
There are methods to calibrate temp range ?
Thank you !
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Thermocouple measurements are tricky with just the 4 mm input jacks. Just the wrong connectors could cause trouble and cold junction compensation is also tricky, as the effective cold junction may be outside the meter. Things may get better with a scanner card.
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In fact I realize that I cannot use REL function , because my meter display 33 degrees without probe . So if I press REL it will display a negative value after I connect the probe , because it will compensate the initial value.
It is normal to show 33 degree (on K type) without probe ?
Any one that can verify with this multimeter (SDM 3065X) ?
Thank you !
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With open inputs the thermocouple reads can be all over the place, just like with high impedance voltage reading.
With a short instead of the thermocouple (this may also apply if 10 M impedance mode is used) there would be zero voltage and thus reading of the cold junction temperature. 33 C is quite warm, but possible with quite some heat from the instrument and if the measured temperature is more to the inside. There may be more detailed instructions on how to connect a thermocouple - the transitions from TC to copper should be near the measured temperature. This may require special connectors to get this right.
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I cannot select 10 M on this function .
I am using K type probes .
Why it is not working as supposed ?
A 10 dollar, ordinary meter from aliexpress show the temp correctly .
Do you have the same meter ?
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One thing to possibly go wring is having the thermo-couple wires reversed. I would first check with just just a short instead of the probe.
I don't see a special connector, so I would expect the TC function to be of marginal use. A little like cheap meters without an extra plug (that could interfere with a good CAT rating).
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One thing to possibly go wring is having the thermo-couple wires reversed. I would first check with just just a short instead of the probe...
;D
Fortunatelly is much simpler. If you reverse wires, the value start to decrease when you touch the sensor ...
I contacted Siglent support and they told me that a new firmware is about to be released . This will fix the lookup table for K-type sensors, and much more it will add support for create a new sensor with all attributes so any sensor can be characterized. (Custom sensor)
Stay tuned ...
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New SDM3055 firmware
Version 1.01.01.20R2
8.2 MB
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/19_11_21/96f162aae6.zip
Release notes
Bug fix: Long file names will no longer crash the system
1. Change the size of text in dual display mode
2. Added customer defined time base in the trend diagram.
3. Enhanced the volume of buzzer.
4. Bug fix: The screen saving setup was lost after power cycle/reboot.
5. Moved CSV file save function from the utility page to the acquire page.
6. Added recording measurement data to external U disk.
7. Added the PT1000 temperature measurement.
8. Bug Fix: when repeat single trig measurement, the screen is blocked.
9. Optimize the temperature measure function
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New firmware for SDM3045X
Version V5.01.01.05R3
8 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3045X_5.01.01.05R3.zip
Release notes
1. Fix a bug about single trig function .
2. Fix a bug about save/recall function.
3. Fix a bug in U disk update function .
4. Optimize the temperature measure function.
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1. Change the size of text in dual display mode
4. Bug fix: The screen saving setup was lost after power cycle/reboot.
Nice. Dual text display looks better now.
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Hi,
... and where´s the Beef?
Recently I received a note that Siglent raised the priotity on bug-fixing the SDM3065X.
Q: did they increase the character size of the secondary display ?
regards
Calvin
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Hello,
Im going to buy a DMMCheck Plus and I was wondering if I could use that to recalibrate my SDM3055 ?
In the manual, I only found information about automatic calibration with a professional calibrator but I don't know if there is a procedure to calibrate myself this DMM with precision voltage reference ?
Thank you for your help :)
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Hello,
Im going to buy a DMMCheck Plus and I was wondering if I could use that to recalibrate my SDM3055 ?
In the manual, I only found information about automatic calibration with a professional calibrator but I don't know if there is a procedure to calibrate myself this DMM with precision voltage reference ?
Thank you for your help :)
There is a manual adjustment process being prepared for SDM3065X for those with very accurate references.
As yet it is not available and it is unknown if other models will also benefit from this manual adjustment process.
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Hi,
... and where´s the Beef?
Recently I received a note that Siglent raised the priotity on bug-fixing the SDM3065X.
Q: did they increase the character size of the secondary display ?
regards
Calvin
yes .
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I don't use the dual display very often, but this is an improvement over the previous version. Though, it would even better if they used the whole bottom portion, below the line by moving the range indicator to the left.
[attachimg=1]
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https://teledynelecroy.com/digital-multimeters/detail.aspx?modelid=11036
T3DMM Series - Digital Multimeters
T3DMM4-5 = SDM3045X
T3DMM5-5 = SDM3055
T3DMM6-5 = SDM3065X
T3DMM6-5-SC = SDM3065X-SC
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https://teledynelecroy.com/digital-multimeters/detail.aspx?modelid=11036
T3DMM Series - Digital Multimeters
T3DMM4-5 = SDM3045X
T3DMM5-5 = SDM3055
T3DMM6-5 = SDM3065X
T3DMM6-5-SC = SDM3065X-SC
:)
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-multimeters/1236610/
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-multimeters/1236609/
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-multimeters/1236465/
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-multimeters/1236623/
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-multimeters/1236622/
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-multimeters/1236466/
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Just because of you ( >:D), I sold my SDM3055 and I bought a 3065X
The extra digit and accuracy will be usefull for my next project anyway.
|O
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Hello,
I have got a new DSM3055. I have the following Problems:
1)
I measure PT100 Temperature Sensors. If I turn the multimeter off and on again, it comes up with the last settings. So everything is shown for the PT100 measuring. But in the value it shows overload. I have to unplug and plugon the PT100 sensor again, than it shows the temperature without changing anything of the settings.
2)
I use the frequency measurement and display the Hz unit. Than I switch to dual display mode. The second unit is also Hz, how can I change this to period time?
3)
If I want to save the measurment to the internal or external memory the device crashes (doesn't react do any button) and I have to restart the device.
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Hello,
I have got a new DSM3055. I have the following Problems:
Which firmware version?
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The Version is v1.01.01.20R2
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3)
If I want to save the measurment to the internal or external memory the device crashes (doesn't react do any button) and I have to restart the device.
I figured out if I save the data out of the memory to the USB Stick it works once, than never again. I have to delete the files from the usb drive, than it works again.
It is only possible to save one reading in a directory, if I store more values, the multimeter crashes.
Continues recording is not working at all.
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I measure PT1000. This works fine. If I turn off the DMM and turn it on again, it shows overflow and I have do disconnect the PT1000 and reconnect it again. Why is it not working direct after reboot?
Video:
http://www.schaeck.eu/download/eev/dmm_pt1000.mp4 (http://www.schaeck.eu/download/eev/dmm_pt1000.mp4)
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SDM3055 owner.. good value for money, but the probes it comes with, wow are they ever complete garbage. I know they aren't gold plated Probe Masters, but wow... they're miles worse then any other leads. Measuring resistance it's all over the map.
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I measure PT1000. This works fine. If I turn off the DMM and turn it on again, it shows overflow and I have do disconnect the PT1000 and reconnect it again. Why is it not working direct after reboot?
Video:
http://www.schaeck.eu/download/eev/dmm_pt1000.mp4 (http://www.schaeck.eu/download/eev/dmm_pt1000.mp4)
I had contact with Siglent, the will fix the problem. I also can not store the values of measurments to a usb drive or internal memory more than once. They will also fix this problem.
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There is a manual adjustment process being prepared for SDM3065X for those with very accurate references.
As yet it is not available and it is unknown if other models will also benefit from this manual adjustment process.
This should be handled with outmost priority. After LM399 burn-in (with is done by buying an SDM3065X and powering it on), I want to adjust the meter back to spec. But Siglent does not publish the procedure, only references an obscure python script that isn't official.
Gimme an adjustment procedure and some ordinary SCPI commands to execute, and the paperweight may be of some use again.
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There is a manual adjustment process being prepared for SDM3065X for those with very accurate references.
As yet it is not available and it is unknown if other models will also benefit from this manual adjustment process.
This should be handled with outmost priority. After LM399 burn-in (with is done by buying an SDM3065X and powering it on), I want to adjust the meter back to spec. But Siglent does not publish the procedure, only references an obscure python script that isn't official.
Gimme an adjustment procedure and some ordinary SCPI commands to execute, and the paperweight may be of some use again.
Sorry but the manual adjustment procedure is still not ready and you may have noticed SDM3065X firmware update is also overdue. Maybe to permit user adjustments the firmware must have provision for this and also save the factory Cal so it can be returned to factory settings in case a mistake is made.
The factory is on spring break for 2 weeks now and when I last asked about manual adjustments in Dec19 Siglent was still solving issues with its implementation.
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Hi there,
have my new SDM3055 since yesterday.
So far so nice, but I have a strange problem.
With every attempt to save something (whether setups as xlm.xx or Save Screen) the device freezes.
At first thought it might only affect saving to USB, but this behavior is also evident in the internal memory
(and this even without a USB device inserted).
The device then no longer responds to anything. Then it only helps to turn it off and on again.
Also, I haven't really understood how Save Screen should work.
(Ok, but I could not test that the above problem does not allow this).
Addendum:
Firmware is 1.01.01.20R2 (was already available when purchasing).
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File manager operations like creating new folders, renaming, deleting is possible. For files too.
But when I go to save it freezes. :(
No one has an idea why this is going wrong?!?
In dozens of attempts, I have now once managed to save without crashing.
Therefore it is not clear to me whether I am doing something fundamentally wrong with the operation ? :-\
PS.
It also happens when I do this via Easy Dmm (Control -> Virtual Panel).
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It also happens with "Acquire -> save Reading -> U-disc record" if you stop recording and want to save it.
Frozen (hence a photo of the screen, no own screenshot).
At the very moment when the popup success came it froze.
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File manager operations like creating new folders, renaming, deleting is possible. For files too.
But when I go to save it freezes. :(
No one has an idea why this is going wrong?!?
In dozens of attempts, I have now once managed to save without crashing.
Therefore it is not clear to me whether I am doing something fundamentally wrong with the operation ? :-\
PS.
It also happens when I do this via Easy Dmm (Control -> Virtual Panel)
I had the same problem and I have contacted Siglent Germany. They could reproduce this error and wrote me that this is a bug. This was on the 2019-01-19. So we have to be patient.
If you have no csv file on the stick, you can save the data. If there are multiple csv files on the drive, the device crashes.
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klausES, mrprecision
Have you tried other USB sticks ?
Can you confirm they are FAT32 formatted ?
From the manual:
(3) Check if the capacity of the used USB disk is too large. The Multimeter is recommended not to use USB disks which exceed 4GB.
When I next have a SDM unpacked I'll check for this apparent bug. :-//
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klausES, mrprecision
Have you tried other USB sticks ?
Can you confirm they are FAT32 formatted ?
When I next have a SDM unpacked I'll check for this apparent bug.
It is not the problem of the USB stick and the formatting. Also the same problem happens if you save the file to the internal memory. If you delete all csv files form the memory, you can save once the data do the USB stick.
Siglent answered me regarding this problem:
It does be a issue and it was forwarded to our R&D department. The related engineer will fix it and this need some time. Please wait for a while.
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...Have you tried other USB sticks ?
Can you confirm they are FAT32 formatted ?...
Yes, FAT32 and also tried also sticks that only had 2GB.
But since the error also happens when saving in internal memory,
(and no stick is inserted) it shouldn't be a special USB problem.
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Could it be a bug in the latest current firmware version (1.01.01.20R2) ?
If this problem had existed for a long time, even with older versions,
i think would there have to be more people who would have reported this?!?
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...If you delete all csv files form the memory, you can save once the data do the USB stick...
Do I understand correctly that a csv must not be present in the internal memory?
Not even if you want to save to usb?
Definitely a bug.
We can only hope that Siglent will fix this as soon as possible.
I was really looking forward to the device (and therefore I will not make it bad, it is not bad), but it does cloud the joy a little.
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Would have liked to try 1.01.01.20R1, but this version is nowhere to be found online.
Has someone happened to have the ver. 1.01.01.20R1 saved for itself and could it be sent to me ?
Otherwise I could only try the older 1.01.01.19 or 1.01.01.16R2.
However, these old versions lack some important functions. :-\
...Because who knows how long it can take for the bug to be fixed ...
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Ok, just tested with 1.01.01.16R2 and with 1.01.01.19 (unfortunately I didn't have 1.01.01.20 and 1.01.01.20R1).
With these two older versions, this problem does not exist.
Saving works perfectly with these.
So clearly a bug in 1.01.01.20R2 :'(
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Ok, just tested with 1.01.01.16R2 and with 1.01.01.19 (unfortunately I didn't have 1.01.01.20 and 1.01.01.20R1).
With these two older versions, this problem does not exist.
Saving works perfectly with these.
So clearly a bug in 1.01.01.20R2 :'(
A big thanks for your efforts on this. :-+
High importance email going to Siglent with your findings. :)
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...High importance email going to Siglent with your findings. :)...
That would be good. Better than if maybe one person reports it and it goes down.
Thank you for your attention to Siglent users. :)
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I noticed another mistake.
If you select "Mode Continuity" for the first time (after switching on the device), Threshold (default 50 ohms) cannot be adjusted.
The digits in the display do not react to higher or lower positions with the cursor up and down keys.
The cursor itself cannot be moved vertically in the digits.
Only when you switch to a completely different measurement (it doesn't matter, Volt, Current or whatever) and back to Continuity does it work.
Whether this really is related to 1.01.01.20R2 (I only noticed that this was not the case with 1.01.01.19) i have to examine it later more closely.
It would be good if someone else tried it out with their SDM3055 and the 1.01.01.20R2.
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Siglent has changed a lot in relation to the earlier SDM3055.
No more rust on the cut edges / punched edges.
PCB changed (components that have been subsequently soldered on now have their own soldered joint in the pcb).
The quality of the bcb soldering (Dave complained in the 2015 video) is now flawless.
Siglent replaced the old fan with a higher quality one (lower speed, quieter bearings, quieter blade shape, diameter now 60x60x12 mm).
In addition, the voltage for the fan was reduced to 9.4V.
The plug connections flat plugs (e.g. earth) are firmly attached with clamping force.
Negative changes:
The sd card slot has been rationalized away.
Unfortunately, in order to further reduce the noise of the fan, an unsightly remedy has been used.
The fan has been installed "upside down", which makes it even quieter since it sits so close to the grille of the cover
(since it is now no longer on the suction side but on the pressure side of the grille),
but this has major disadvantages in terms of flow technology within the housing.
If it had been installed with its suction side at a distance from the grille (8-10 mm would have been enough),
it could have been installed the right way round without amplifying the noise.
I will change everything (already started) and build a temperature control with heating and ventilation,
adjustable from 20-35 degrees Celsius in steps of 0.5 degrees, the set temperature then remains with an accuracy of +-0.25 degrees.
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Or....try it without a fan like the SDM3045X. :popcorn:
The sd card slot has been rationalized away.
AFAIK it was only used to flash the OS and FW into these units at the factory although later it has been also used for early FW version boot freeze recovery but now production units run later FW that allow for the noninvasive USB recovery it's a good thing they are now omitted to remove the temptation to owners to muck with the SD card slot and potentially brick the unit. ::)
Yes it happens ! :horse:
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...AFAIK it was only used to flash the OS and FW into these units at the factory although later it has been also used for early FW version boot freeze recovery but now production units run later FW that allow for the noninvasive USB recovery it's a good thing they are now omitted to remove the temptation to owners to muck with the SD card slot and potentially brick the unit. ::)
Yes it happens ! :horse:
You are right, a possible guide to recovery in the firmware is of course the more elegant solution. :)
Or....try it without a fan like the SDM3045X. :popcorn:...
Definitely not. >:D
Air flow must be...
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I noticed another mistake.
If you select "Mode Continuity" for the first time (after switching on the device), Threshold (default 50 ohms) cannot be adjusted.
The digits in the display do not react to higher or lower positions with the cursor up and down keys.
The cursor itself cannot be moved vertically in the digits.
Only when you switch to a completely different measurement (it doesn't matter, Volt, Current or whatever) and back to Continuity does it work.
Whether this really is related to 1.01.01.20R2 (I only noticed that this was not the case with 1.01.01.19) i have to examine it later more closely.
It would be good if someone else tried it out with their SDM3055 and the 1.01.01.20R2.
Has someone reported this to Siglent to fix it?
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I have reported "both errors" to the support of the dealer (Batronix here in Germany).
I was promised they would contact Siglent.
At the moment "it is said" that no one can be reached in China by February 20, or no reactions are expected before that. :-//
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I have reported "both errors" to the support of the dealer (Batronix here in Germany).
I was promised they would contact Siglent.
At the moment "it is said" that no one can be reached in China by February 20, or no reactions are expected before that. :-//
Nope, but they're working remotely from home so until they get back to the labs all they can do is record issues and deal with them later.
I've reported them too. ;)
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Thank you. :)
I also reported it directly to Siglent yesterday.
(I was just wondering why nobody should be available in China at the moment ? Whether it has anything to do with the virus ?).
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Thank you. :)
I also reported it directly to Siglent yesterday.
(I was just wondering why nobody should be available in China at the moment ? Whether it has anything to do with the virus ?).
Everything is affected by the virus. Everybody is being extremely careful and the authorities have restricted many non-essential business operations.
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Unfortunately, another problem with my new SDM3055 crystallizes out.
It is now the fifth time that it freezes when it is on for a longer period of time (without a key being pressed during this time). :-\
Whenever it runs unattended for about 2 hours or more.
The current measurement then continues (the values continue to update on the display)
but it then no longer responds to any key inputs. :-[
It doesn't matter what type of measurement.
The only thing that remains is to switch it off and on again.
I can't say yet whether this also has to do with the 1.01.01.20R2.
First of all, I only have the opportunity to try it for a few days with the 1.01.01.19 under the same conditions,
whether it is there not the case or the same... :-//
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It’s not yet 100 percent safe because with this thing,
which does not always and if occurs after 1 to 2 hours, cannot completely rule out coincidences.
Have now tried two days and nights the 1.01.01.19
It did not occur there.
But only two days two nights don't prove this, now what is certain is that it is back on 1.01.01.20R2 this morning and it froze after 1.5 hours... :(
Now I'm trying to find out whether the error may be caused by the screen saver or by "waking up" from the screen saver.
There the SDM3055 behaves very different when waking up, worse than e.g. the SDG1000X series in which this was better solved in software.
It is very annoying. Restart, restart, restart...
Slowly, along with the other three mistakes, the fun passes. :-[
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But just noticed one thing.
He then no longer responds to any key ... but in EasyDMM I was still able to operate everything in the virtual panel and he did it in real life.
After that, oh what... he could be operated again using the buttons on site.
I mean I had tried it before and it didn't work.
Whether this was an exception. no idea. ??? at least this was possible.
This knowledge might help people at siglent troubleshoot ?!?
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Yes, twice again today ... after freezing (no more reactions to front buttons)
it can be operated functions using SCPI commands and then again also with the front buttons.
It seems to me that when wake up the screen saver
the controller (or the reception / response of the controller) to the key matrix does not wake up.
In my opinion, what do you all mean, this behavior increases the likelihood of a software error in the latest Frimware
(and diminished, so I hope a probability of a hardware error in my device) ?
-
...I had the same problem and I have contacted Siglent Germany. They could reproduce this error and wrote me that this is a bug. This was on the 2019-01-19. So we have to be patient.
If you have no csv file on the stick, you can save the data. If there are multiple csv files on the drive, the device crashes.
Since there is still no solution to the save problem ... a short request:
Is it a typo or is it really over a year since you reported this to Siglent ?? :palm:
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When Easy DMM is connected or other SCPI application is connected to DMM , it will switch to remote mode wich is signaled on upper right corner on screen (REMOTE) .
In this state the physical keys are not responding to pressings.
You must disconnect first from it and the DMM show LOCAL in upper right corner.
Maybe you can check this ...
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Didn't mean it so...
Only when it is frozen, only then did I start to test e.g. EasyDMM and only then can the front keyboard be reactivated.
Because on the device itself in this state, no chance
No software is running during the operation in which he freezes at some point.
It just happened again.
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I have been using the SDM3045X for a long while and I really like it.
There had been a few issues and a few lacking functions, but Siglent is very responsive about it.
I had been in contact with them for over half a year and they sent me updates on the development cycle and preview releases ;D
The features and fixes in particular have all been released and I have highlighted the ones I was involved with in the attached changelog:
[attachimg=1]
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Hi,
their SDM3065X hasn't been firmware updated since march '19 even though they know about and confirmed a major bug.
To see almost any other of their devices beeing updated on a speedy agenda is quite disappointing.
Hey Sigent ... if You're reading this ... get Your Flagship dmm finally updated !!! It's long overdue.
regards
Calvin
-
Hi,
their SDM3065X hasn't been firmware updated since march '19 even though they know about and confirmed a major bug.
To see almost any other of their devices beeing updated on a speedy agenda is quite disappointing.
Hey Sigent ... if You're reading this ... get Your Flagship dmm finally updated !!! It's long overdue.
regards
Calvin
Seen a beta so it's not far away.
-
...Seen a beta so it's not far away...
Is that something in sight because of the 3055 bugs ?
Since I am currently sitting on 3055 for many hours a day, I would definitely offer myself as a beta tester.
-
Hi,
let´s hope that this time it is indeed not far away ..... half a year ago it was already ´not far away´also. :-\
regards
Calvin
-
New firmware for SDM3065X
Version V3.01.01.07
8.31 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.01.01.07_EN.zip (https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.01.01.07_EN.zip)
Release notes
1. Add customer defined senor function
2. Add PT1000 thermistor
3. Add buzzer volume control function.
4. Added customer defined time base in the trend diagram
5. Added recording measurement data to external U disk
6. Fix some bugs: change the text size in the Dual display,
the screen saving setup will be lost after reboot, move
the CSV save function from the utility page to acquire
page.
-
Thank you for your attention. :-+
That gives me hope that something will come soon for the 3055.
-
PT1000 was already available for the 3055.
(I have been using it for some time now, I personally prefer it much more than the stubborn thermocouple).
Then it would be interesting if you can also use the bug for the 3065X (which still exists on the 3055),
namely that when switching on with temperature measurement (sensor connected) the relay rattle and overload is displayed, have been eliminated.
A 3065X owner could test that.
-
Hi,
just updated the firmware yesterday and :rant: :wtf: :horse: :-- :-- :--
The major bug of loosing the data when switching to a different display is still there!
In other words switching the display from say trend chart to histogram all Your logged data is lost and logging starts new with every switch to a different display.
Come on Siglent You acknowledged that behaviour as a bug and You had half a year time to fix it! :palm:
That is really disappointing :--
I wonder if You´d be so kind to send me a SDM3055 till You fixed that bug?
regards
Calvin
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Hi,
received a test firmware from Mr Rottach that finally fixes the logging prob of the SDM3065X.
Now I can switch between different displays and the logged data is kept. :-+
regards
Calvin
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Test with your 3065 but please times, the behavior when switching on with the previously selected temperature measurement.
(Start Setup must of course be set to "last setting").
If you don't have a thermocouple, PT100 or 1000, you can also do this by selecting PT100 or 1000
and a fixed resistor in the real range of one of the two types.
-
I think EasyDMM is due for an update, it is going on 3 years old.
[attachimg=1]
-
Yes, you could do it if you have the time. ^-^
On the other hand, (at least for me) there are absolutely no problems with the last EasyDmm version.
With a completely redesigned software, there is initially a small risk of new bugs.
It does everything flawlessly and still looks up to date in my opinion (not as outdated as the last EasyWave without X). 8)
First, please fix the firmware errors... is more important... :P
-
I'm a hobbiest working my way back to being an EE. I got a degree decades ago, but did software professionally instead, so I'm extremely rusty, but working on it... Heh. I've been building up my home lab over the past year and I have a current project that might give me plausible justification for a ~6.5 digit bench DMM. Ebay has some claimed "working and calibrated" HP/Agilent/Keysight older models for around $400 US, but I'm attempting to make sure new/used equipment I buy has LAN whenever possible. Plus I'm still too rusty to adequately deal with a boat anchor at this time.
Part of my current project (AKA plausible justification for test equipment purchase) is to build a "germicidal UV power" probe as simply and cheaply as possible, since it is not the intended goal of the project just the means to measure and verify to main project. "Real" equipment for this type of measurement run around $2k to $4k to purchase or about $250/week for rental. So, if a bench DMM will work, even a SDM3065X will end up being cheaper since I have no long-term use for measuring UV power. If interested, the project I'm currently working towards is linked here, but I have since realized that measuring material reflectivity/absorbance/transmittance using a DIY test jig is also needed beyond just measured UV power from a bulb (when you don't have a spec sheet):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/cheapest-way-to-check-if-a-uvc-bulb-is-as-advertised/msg3000790/#msg3000790 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/cheapest-way-to-check-if-a-uvc-bulb-is-as-advertised/msg3000790/#msg3000790)
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong thinking that a 6.5 digit DMM would work for my needs, or if I should be looking elsewhere (I don't want to hijack this thread).
A few questions about Siglent bench DMMs.
New firmware for SDM3065X
Version V3.01.01.07
[SNIP]
Release notes
1. Add customer defined senor function
[SNIP]
Does anyone have more info on the customer defined sensor function? Is this a common feature of modern bench DMMs? The photodiodes on digikey that are responsive to germicidal UV (~200nm to ~320nm) tend to be in nA territory, although my rusty EE skills may have misinterpreted. So my thought is to shortcut building a full UV probe with instrumentation opamps/etc and just use an accurate-enough bench DMM with the raw photodiode + PS + optical filter if necessary for specific photodiode. If the firmware of Siglent's DMM can calculate the actual result from coefficient * (measurement - offset), then that would be very nice to have. If the idea in my head on how this feature might be used is wrong, feel free to correct me. ;)
I'm curious about the scanner card option. Does anyone here actually have a unit with scanner card that might comment on it? AFAIK, the only drawback is the reduced number of measurement ranges when using SC channels, but you still have the full 6.5 digit accuracy within those ranges? From my perhaps incorrect perspective/use, the SC option is equivalent to a large pile of individual high-accuracy DMMs that are all accessible via LAN. Seems like a "cheap" way to dramatically increase the measurement capability of my lab. Does firmware support using the front panel measurement "channel" while in scanner mode yet? Would be useful to use front panel input for very low amp range UV sensor while monitoring UV bulb voltage and current using the wider ranged SC card channels. Yes, it would be better to make a fully functional UV power probe and do all of this with a scope, but I'm attempting to minimize the effort for a short-term project.
I've seen the SDM3055 hacking thread, which seems as much about HW mods as FW. I'm curious if anyone has "improved" an SDM3065X with practical results, as in more non-noise digits of precision, etc without HW mods?
-
@pipe2null
Maybe the SC1016 datasheet can answer some of your questions:
http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/SC1016_Datasheet_DS60030-E02A.pdf (http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/SC1016_Datasheet_DS60030-E02A.pdf)
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I at least skimmed the RTFM prior to asking about the scanner card... ;)
Measurement Function: Available Range
DCV/ACV/ FRQ: Auto, 200mV, 2V, 20V, 200V
DCI/ACI: 2A (fixed)
2W/4W: Auto, 200Ω, 2kΩ, 20kΩ, 200kΩ, 2MΩ(1MΩ for SDM3065X), 10MΩ, 100MΩ
CAP: Auto, 2nF, 20nF, 200nF, 2μF, 20μF, 200μF, 10000μF (2mF, 20mF, 100mF for SDM3065X)
So scanner card channels (1-12) lose the top 1000V range, but that's ok most of the time. But only having a 2A (fixed) range for scanner card channels (13-16) is a bit of a bummer though. The manual, and I think I saw posts from years back, give the impression it is "either" using front panel input with all measurement ranges available including 200uA range, "or" using scanner mode with 16 inputs with minor limitations to available ranges such as fixed 2A range, but not a combination of both. I would think this is just a firmware limitation, although I admit this is a niche use. Sometimes firmware changes don't make it into the documentation, so thought I'd ask about it if there's someone on the forum who has one.
I've looked around a bit, and it seems like the SDM3065X, possibly with scanner card option, is the best Bang-for-6.5Digit-Buck these days, at least for a new unit w/LAN?
-
I at least skimmed the RTFM prior to asking about the scanner card... ;)
Measurement Function: Available Range
DCV/ACV/ FRQ: Auto, 200mV, 2V, 20V, 200V
DCI/ACI: 2A (fixed)
2W/4W: Auto, 200Ω, 2kΩ, 20kΩ, 200kΩ, 2MΩ(1MΩ for SDM3065X), 10MΩ, 100MΩ
CAP: Auto, 2nF, 20nF, 200nF, 2μF, 20μF, 200μF, 10000μF (2mF, 20mF, 100mF for SDM3065X)
So scanner card channels (1-12) lose the top 1000V range, but that's ok most of the time. But only having a 2A (fixed) range for scanner card channels (13-16) is a bit of a bummer though. The manual, and I think I saw posts from years back, give the impression it is "either" using front panel input with all measurement ranges available including 200uA range, "or" using scanner mode with 16 inputs with minor limitations to available ranges such as fixed 2A range, but not a combination of both. I would think this is just a firmware limitation, although I admit this is a niche use. Sometimes firmware changes don't make it into the documentation, so thought I'd ask about it if there's someone on the forum who has one.
I've looked around a bit, and it seems like the SDM3065X, possibly with scanner card option, is the best Bang-for-6.5Digit-Buck these days, at least for a new unit w/LAN?
I did own a SDM3065X with the SC but a customer wanted it !
The physical clearances on the SC are the limitations of its capabilities unfortunately as the relays for each of the 16 channels connect to the DMM measurement circuit for the DMM to do the actual measurement, not the SC.
It works in a similar way to the Dual measurement feature however the full system ratings are available in Dual mode.
Check the user manual for the measurement types available in Dual mode.
-
...
I did own a SDM3065X with the SC but a customer wanted it !
...
I figured one had crossed your bench at some point, heh. Those troublesome customers taking away your toys (for money)... ;) BTW, this will be the 3rd piece of equipment that I ended up buying after a conversation with you. You are indeed a professional-grade TEA enabler! I'm currently looking for a US supplier for SDM3065X-SC with the least insane lead time, and hopefully an eevblog discount like Saelig has... Thanks for the help!
-
I've got an SDM3055-SC, and the behavior is as you have assumed. When in scan mode, it uses the scan card inputs exclusively.
-
Tautech
Firmware bug, with the newly added PT1000 thermistor the SCPI command "CONF:TEMP RTD,PT1000" is missing
New firmware for SDM3065X
Version V3.01.01.07
8.31 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.01.01.07_EN.zip (https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.01.01.07_EN.zip)
Release notes
1. Add customer defined senor function
2. Add PT1000 thermistor
3. Add buzzer volume control function.
4. Added customer defined time base in the trend diagram
5. Added recording measurement data to external U disk
6. Fix some bugs: change the text size in the Dual display,
the screen saving setup will be lost after reboot, move
the CSV save function from the utility page to acquire
page.
-
As I'm reading this ... forgot to say ...
Have finally been in direct written contact with Siglent for a few days now.
Siglent has multiple correspondence (asking for details on how exactly the errors occur)
three of "my" four errors on 3055 can successfully understand.
Now I think they're really working on it. :-+
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I am considering getting one of these. I am thinking where it would fit on my bench. I have a Fluke 45 and a Fluke 8050A sitting on top, which would go away. I wonder how the size of the SDM3055 relates to the Fluke 45. Ideally I would like them stacked. Does any one, by a chance has both of them?
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Fluke 45: 9.3 cm high, 21.6 cm wide, 28.6 cm deep (3.67 in high,8.5 in wide,11.27 in deep)
Siglent SDM3055: 282 mm × 260 mm × 105 mm
SDM3055 - taller, wider, but shorter.
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Fluke 45: 9.3 cm high, 21.6 cm wide, 28.6 cm deep (3.67 in high,8.5 in wide,11.27 in deep)
Siglent SDM3055: 282 mm × 260 mm × 105 mm
SDM3055 - taller, wider, but shorter.
Is 260mm the width or the length? Either way, the Fluke 45 would have to go over the SDM3055. Somehow I had the idea that would be the other way around, but the Siglent is really bigger.
-
Is 260mm the width or the length? Either way, the Fluke 45 would have to go over the SDM3055. Somehow I had the idea that would be the other way around, but the Siglent is really bigger.
Width. The full side footprint from the outside edges of the handle is 10 inches, and back to front from tips of bumpers is 11.5 inches.
-
At first I thought in the documentation they never adjusted the dimensions from the old version
with the short corners to the new one with the "X" corners,
but the specified dimensions are completely wrong regardless of "X" or old.
Perhaps translation errors that have never been corrected ? :-//
I just measured my 3055 and many dimensions are far from those in the documentation.
If you want ? I have it in mm but not inches
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Anyone know the best way to contact siglent? I have this fun bug.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vpRi1F8QcQosTyrx9
Switching to 20k will not overflow, and then it "breaks" auto ranging even until you pick 200k and then go back to auto ranging.
-
I just measured my 3055 and many dimensions are far from those in the documentation.
If you want ? I have it in mm but not inches
Yes please - what are the mm dimensions? Thx
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Hello everyone!
I plan to purchase the SDM3055 with the X bumper, but judging by the mjlorton review [https://youtu.be/WxnSRGE82cA?t=335] the dialing mode (diode mode witch beeper) is completely unacceptable, actually when reading the history of firmware changes I did not find that it was fixed. Actually the question is two questions:
1) On with the latest firmware, the dialer mode was made better or it remained at an unacceptable level. If this has already been fixed, then maybe someone can give a link to the video as it is now with the reaction of sound to the sound.
2) On the site https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm3055x-e/#navs (https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm3055x-e/#navs) there was a mention of the X-E model in the documentation and photographs, is the same observed X-E is this a new model?
Sorry for my English ::)
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I just measured my 3055 and many dimensions are far from those in the documentation.
If you want ? I have it in mm but not inches
Yes please - what are the mm dimensions? Thx
SDM3055 measurements minus folding bail handle below. Includes current version bumpers with horns.
293mm D x 223mm W x 110mm H
11 1/2" 8 3/4" 4 1/4"
Width with bail handle 260mm 10 1/4" (easily removable)
-
Hello everyone!
I plan to purchase the SDM3055 with the X bumper, but judging by the mjlorton review [https://youtu.be/WxnSRGE82cA?t=335] the dialing mode (diode mode witch beeper) is completely unacceptable, actually when reading the history of firmware changes I did not find that it was fixed. Actually the question is two questions:
1) On with the latest firmware, the dialer mode was made better or it remained at an unacceptable level. If this has already been fixed, then maybe someone can give a link to the video as it is now with the reaction of sound to the sound.
2) On the site https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm3055x-e/#navs (https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm3055x-e/#navs) there was a mention of the X-E model in the documentation and photographs, is the same observed X-E is this a new model?
Sorry for my English ::)
Welcome to the forum.
1) At this time I think only SDM3065X has the buzzer volume adjustment feature however as the 3 SDM models share an almost identical UI I would expect provision to adjust buzzer volume in a coming SDS3055 FW.
All units I have used on the bench the buzzer is now fine and if anything it could be louder.
Buzzer volume adjustment feature added in Version 1.01.01.20R2
2) X-E is a China only model we do not see in the west. It could be the same as SDM3045X however I do not know.
It is better to work with the English versions of Siglent websites:
https://int.siglent.com/ (https://int.siglent.com/)
https://siglentna.com/ (https://siglentna.com/)
https://www.siglenteu.com/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/)
-
Hello everyone!
I plan to purchase the SDM3055 with the X bumper, but judging by the mjlorton review [https://youtu.be/WxnSRGE82cA?t=335] the dialing mode (diode mode witch beeper) is completely unacceptable, actually when reading the history of firmware changes I did not find that it was fixed. Actually the question is two questions:
1) On with the latest firmware, the dialer mode was made better or it remained at an unacceptable level. If this has already been fixed, then maybe someone can give a link to the video as it is now with the reaction of sound to the sound.
2) On the site https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm3055x-e/#navs (https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm3055x-e/#navs) there was a mention of the X-E model in the documentation and photographs, is the same observed X-E is this a new model?
Sorry for my English ::)
Welcome to the forum.
1) At this time I think only SDM3065X has the buzzer volume adjustment feature however as the 3 SDM models share an almost identical UI I would expect provision to adjust buzzer volume in a coming SDS3055 FW.
All units I have used on the bench the buzzer is now fine and if anything it could be louder.
2) X-E is a China only model we do not see in the west. It could be the same as SDM3045X however I do not know.
It is better to work with the English versions of Siglent websites:
https://int.siglent.com/ (https://int.siglent.com/)
https://siglentna.com/ (https://siglentna.com/)
https://www.siglenteu.com/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/)
Thank you for your greetings!
Apparently (google) translator translates, I'm interested in the responsiveness of the audio signal after closing the contacts of the probes. The sound appears with a delay. I wanted to know if this was fixed?
-
SDM30565X continuity and diode tests with the current firmware of that time....a couple of years ago.
https://youtu.be/k6HE8qV3CA4?list=PL2z3V9RkHQE0ntjTgr_Nkpv4XRaH_iT2o&t=5853
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SDM30565X continuity and diode tests with the current firmware of that time....a couple of years ago.
https://youtu.be/k6HE8qV3CA4?list=PL2z3V9RkHQE0ntjTgr_Nkpv4XRaH_iT2o&t=5853
Unfortunately continuity test is pretty much the same (very slow) even with the latest firmware (some weeks old) with SDM3065X.
If that's important then a Brymen BM869s is something to be considered. Comparison:
https://youtu.be/K-4L2JarVxA?t=134 (https://youtu.be/K-4L2JarVxA?t=134)
At 20 Hz:
https://youtu.be/K-4L2JarVxA?t=294 (https://youtu.be/K-4L2JarVxA?t=294)
Like it's mentioned in the video that's good for sliding the probes across pins to find out what is connected to where.
Even a very cheap Aneng 8008 does better in this respect than the SDM3065X.
So while precision may be a strong point of the SDM3065X, continuity test is not and it's yet to be seen an improvement for this.
-
The volume of the buzzer can now be selected in three levels.
The gradations are well chosen for me, if it is quiet in the area is enough for me (3055) e.g. the smallest.
Again and again I can only wonder about the sense or nonsense of these tests of "trembling" with the test probes.
I don't intend to do 10 measuring points per second by hand and I don't want to do it either. ::)
Maybe it's due to the age, but for me the beeper of the 3055 with the current firmware reacts quickly enough in practice with fractions of a second.
-
Electro fan,
are the details of the mass of Tautech enough for you ?
If you also have the dimensions of the pure housing without the bumpers and handle then get in touch.
-
Hi Klaus, I've noticed there seems to be some different measurements out there but it's no big deal. Thx
-
I've been thinking about a bench DMM and so far the SDM3055 looks like a strong contender. Up from that might be the 3065X, or with one more step the Keithely 6500. The better voltage references in the 3065 and 6500 make them both appealing, and all the software programmability and the display capabilities make the 6500 very appealing. Kind of a matter of how much is enough in terms of accuracy and functionality.
The price on the 3055 definitely makes it attractive but I'd like to make sure it checks off all the basics, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what to expect from it on resistance measurements. In reading around I saw a couple Amazon reviews below. While they are positive on the 3055 overall these two reviews get at what I've been trying to figure out: how useful the 5 1/2 digits really are for resistance measurements (2 or 4 wire)? I'm thinking the first reviewer might have some misunderstanding (or maybe not). It sounds from the second reviewer that a resistance measurement is possible to single digit milliohms. If so it means the 3055 can read down to 1 milliohm (.001), but not 100 micro-ohms (.0001)? Is it correct that the 3055 can display 0.001 on the 200 Ohm setting and that's as low as it will go on resistance?
https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDM3055-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B00QT3RTV0/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=siglent+3055&qid=1587515528&sr=8-1#customerReviews (https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDM3055-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B00QT3RTV0/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=siglent+3055&qid=1587515528&sr=8-1#customerReviews)
attaboy
1.0 out of 5 stars Sense Terminals? Really? Why Even Bother?
Reviewed in the United States on March 3, 2020
Verified Purchase
I bought this 5-1/2 digit DVM for measuring current shunts (pcb trace). I love the screen, and the build quality is Excellent. The one star is for hobbling the resistance measuring function, to a point where it is almost useless for precision measurement of sub-Ohm measurement. Micro amps and volts, but as for ohms, it has a Big Fail. So they go to the trouble of putting sense terminals on this unit, and in resistance, there is a Glaring Four Zeros left of the decimal point. What a waste. Nice looking Kelvin terminals .. good for down to 0.01 ohms. So I bought a 3-1/2 digit 2 ohm meter for about $100 .. that works Very well. For sure, I do recommend Siglent, and will be ordering the 3.2Gh SA, but jumping up to a 7-1/2 digit unit to get accurate sub-ohm resistance measurements is out of my range$, or needs. Maybe there is a firmware update to fix this, or a hack on EEVblog. I do Highly Recommend this unit, except for the abysmal sub-0hm resistance capability. Cheers!
PietroMoopy
5.0 out of 5 stars Excellent.
Reviewed in the United States on June 22, 2019
Verified Purchase
Great meter great price. Have had for 3 months now and there has been no drift so far. The supplied probes were terrible at first simply because they were either to rough or had a very thin layer of something that was preventing them from making solid contact, I saw some YouTubers that had this issue as well. Anyway I took 7000grit sand paper and sanded the probe leads and since then they have been working with no issues at all The meter came with the latest firmware installed and has been bang on accurate in all ranges and well within spec. I have a Keithley DMM6500 and while it is the superior meter I still love using the Siglent, it gets used everyday for work and has never given me a problem.
Edit Update:
I have had this meter for 9 months now. Its been great overall, is very well rounded and is pretty bang on accurate still. WELL within specification. Updated pictures with precision 10v and 5v references. Also what the Keithley DMM6500 and HP 3478A read. The main drawback to the Siglent is resistance. The resistance is accurate, but the lowest range is 200 ohm, which makes single digit milli-ohm the least significant digit. In my experience it has been accurate down to a single milli-ohm, but over time that reading will become more and more unreliable and if I did not have the Keithley to verify the reading, I would not trust it at all. They really dropped the ball on that one, other then that it is a fantastic meter for the price. There has been a firmware update which is version 1.01.01.20R2 which fixed bugs/glitches and improved some UI elements. The fan is the loudest of all instruments in my lab, I do want to replace it but do not want to void warranty just yet. I mean I can still hear the SDM3055 fan when I have my de-humidifier or AC on
-
Hello everyone!
I plan to purchase the SDM3055 with the X bumper, but judging by the mjlorton review [https://youtu.be/WxnSRGE82cA?t=335] the dialing mode (diode mode witch beeper) is completely unacceptable, actually when reading the history of firmware changes I did not find that it was fixed. Actually the question is two questions:
1) On with the latest firmware, the dialer mode was made better or it remained at an unacceptable level. If this has already been fixed, then maybe someone can give a link to the video as it is now with the reaction of sound to the sound.
2) On the site https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm3055x-e/#navs (https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm3055x-e/#navs) there was a mention of the X-E model in the documentation and photographs, is the same observed X-E is this a new model?
Sorry for my English ::)
Welcome to the forum.
1) At this time I think only SDM3065X has the buzzer volume adjustment feature however as the 3 SDM models share an almost identical UI I would expect provision to adjust buzzer volume in a coming SDS3055 FW.
All units I have used on the bench the buzzer is now fine and if anything it could be louder.
Buzzer volume adjustment feature added in Version 1.01.01.20R2
2) X-E is a China only model we do not see in the west. It could be the same as SDM3045X however I do not know.
It is better to work with the English versions of Siglent websites:
https://int.siglent.com/ (https://int.siglent.com/)
https://siglentna.com/ (https://siglentna.com/)
https://www.siglenteu.com/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/)
Today I ordered a 3055 device, thanks to tautech, he gave a useful link unfortunately the video confirms my concerns about the lack of siglent in the implementation of this function, this is a shame for such a device - I hope this Siglent will be corrected. I also noticed that the model for the Chinese market SDM3055X-E works like SDM3055X and, in comparison with SDM3055, the diode ringing mode can be used to select the diode drop voltage, i.e. it has 2 ranges 0-2V 1ma and 2-4V 1ma, and SDM3055 has a range of 0 -2V 1ma and 4V 100ua which does not allow checking blue and white diodes in which a drop of 2-3. The model SDM3055X-E is more attractive in this regard, I hope Siglent will fix this defect in the SDM3055 since having one more device for diode ringing is not very good when 3055 is at hand.
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Where do these voltage and current values for diode measurement come from ?
Documentation or measured in real terms ?
Should this also apply to the latest current firmware or a older version ?
I have not yet been able to find the Siglent that has produced documentation specifically for firmware in which these points have been described in such detail.
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Where do these voltage and current values for diode measurement come from ?
Documentation or measured in real terms ?
Should this also apply to the latest current firmware or a older version ?
I have not yet been able to find the Siglent that has produced documentation specifically for firmware in which these points have been described in such detail.
Datasheet P4 DC values.
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Do you have a link for me ?
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Do you have a link for me ?
SDM3055 datasheet
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/2554/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/2554/)
http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDM3055_DataSheet_DS06035-E03F.pdf (http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDM3055_DataSheet_DS06035-E03F.pdf)
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDM3055/SDM3055_DataSheet_DS06035-E03E.pdf (https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDM3055/SDM3055_DataSheet_DS06035-E03E.pdf)
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The 0-2V and 2-4V only refer to Accuracy specifications.
Above the 3055.
Since the changes to the diode have not been taken into account (no longer fixed 2V but 0-4V in the newer firmware).
Below 3065
(The documentary is probably newer than the 3055 ...)
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The price on the 3055 definitely makes it attractive but I'd like to make sure it checks off all the basics, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what to expect from it on resistance measurements.
For sub Ohm measurements either in Auto range or the minimum 200 Ohm range it could certainly be improved with shifting the decimal point to the left so to allow for more digits below the decimal point.
The 200 Ohm range needs be lowered to 100 Ohms where 99+ Ohms would be shown as Overload.
Latest current firmware.
Here a 4W measurement of a 5W 0.2 Ohm current sense resistor in the 200 Ohm range:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=975360)
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The 0-2V and 2-4V only refer to Accuracy specifications.
Above the 3055.
Since the changes to the diode have not been taken into account (no longer fixed 2V but 0-4V in the newer firmware).
Below 3065
(The documentary is probably newer than the 3055 ...)
Please refer to the top of page 4 where the columns of Range and Test Current or Voltage are specified.
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SDM3055X-E for china Moded test Diode as SDM3045X, SDM3065X
https://www.siglent.com/u_file/download/19_09_19/4a9496f839.pdf (https://www.siglent.com/u_file/download/19_09_19/4a9496f839.pdf)
These are the main functions of the diodes which are not enough in 3055 as well as the quick sound of a short circuit in the continuity mode of the circuit.
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Have now looked at all three 3055 Datasheet from the links (thought maybe different ages?)
in none is the change for diode of the now adjustable threshold 0-4V mentioned since the last firmware.
This is mentioned in the Datasheet of the 3065 (0-4V).
Probably only because the paper of the 3065 is more current than that of the 3055 ?
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...These are the main functions of the diodes which are not enough in 3055 as well as the quick sound of a short circuit in the continuity mode of the circuit.
I don't understand the intent of this sentence ?
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...These are the main functions of the diodes which are not enough in 3055 as well as the quick sound of a short circuit in the continuity mode of the circuit.
I don't understand the intent of this sentence ?
This is what I miss in SDM3055
1) test all diodes up to 4v blue and white
2) quickly sound a short circuit alarm.
Sorry for my english (goolge)
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Have now looked at all three 3055 Datasheet from the links (thought maybe different ages?)
in none is the change for diode of the now adjustable threshold 0-4V mentioned since the last firmware.
This is mentioned in the Datasheet of the 3065 (0-4V).
Probably only because the paper of the 3065 is more current than that of the 3055 ?
Think that the whole problem is in the current of calls. at 2-4V current 0.1ma and at 3065 at 2-4V current 1ma.
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Sorry no blue diodes
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=975392)
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Only now understood that you meant Led (thinks about whether white, blue diodes should mean something special, maybe any zener diodes). :-//
If I understood it straight away... :palm: yes, the 3055 can also do white and blue LEDs.
I have used it many times.
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Beeper on medium...
Tautech, you either seem to have hearing loss or on a street with a lot of traffic ?!? ;) ^-^
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SDM3055 (1.01.01.20R2) just measured the diode test mode.
Clarity.
Maximum voltage at the output (i.e. for a measurement object) of the 3055 is limited to 6.3V (e.g. if the object is too high or open),
the measuring current of the 3055 from the smallest setting up to max. 4V is kept at exactly 0.998 mA.
Conclusion:
The 3055 definitely uses a constant current of 1 mA for diodes, which is maintained up to the maximum setting of 4V
(if the internal resistance of the measurement object allows this) and an additional voltage limitation of max 6.3V.
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Great news that can check the LED up to 4v, thanks everyone!
I was based on the yotube video, and http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDM3055_DataSheet_DS06035-E03F.pdf (http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDM3055_DataSheet_DS06035-E03F.pdf) but apparently the documentation has not been updated for a long time.
It remains to wait for a solution to the issue of the speed up of the buzzer when a short circuit is dialed :)
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One work-around for the sluggish continuity beeper is to set threshold to around 1k. This gives a virtually instant response.
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SDM3055. Now measured continuity.
The measuring current of the 3055 is also regulated at a maximum of 1 mA and the voltage is limited (too little or no load) to a maximum of 6.2V.
The beeper sounds quickly (in my opinion immediately).
At the moment I don't know how to measure it well (I'll try to measure the real time afterwards).
In the end, that's a very subjective thing.
One feels e.g. a quarter of a second as fast, the other may be upset by a delay of a tenth of a second... :-//
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One work-around for the sluggish continuity beeper is to set threshold to around 1k. This gives a virtually instant response.
I have to try that later if this can have an impact.
I use this not only to check for continuity but often in the opposite case,
whether e.g. a test setup nowhere has an unwanted bridging in the PCB without having to constantly look at the display.
And especially for checking for good continuity, I appreciate the possibility of a very low-resistance setting until the beeper sounds.
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I think for most uses, the speed of the continuity is fine.
The very fast response time is useful occasionally when 'looking' for a connection and the DMM leads are quickly dragged across many fine-pitched pins. In this case, the default response time is a tad too slow.
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...when 'looking' for a connection and the DMM leads are quickly dragged across many fine-pitched pins...
This is finally a good sensible objection to insist on a quick acoustic response. :)
I didn't even think about this at this point.
I have already done this, with an old test buzzer, but never with the Bench DMM. ??? ^-^
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The price on the 3055 definitely makes it attractive but I'd like to make sure it checks off all the basics, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what to expect from it on resistance measurements.
For sub Ohm measurements either in Auto range or the minimum 200 Ohm range it could certainly be improved with shifting the decimal point to the left so to allow for more digits below the decimal point.
The 200 Ohm range needs be lowered to 100 Ohms where 99+ Ohms would be shown as Overload.
Latest current firmware.
Here a 4W measurement of a 5W 0.2 Ohm current sense resistor in the 200 Ohm range:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=975360)
Thanks for posting the 000.204 ohms photo.
Good idea about shifting the decimal point to the left. Any chance you can suggest this to Siglent? Is it something that can be fixed with a firmware release?
Any chance you could post another showing a low dBm reading? What’s the lowest dBm reading the 3055 will display? Does it show a minus sign?
Thanks again
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Thanks for posting the 000.204 ohms photo.
Good idea about shifting the decimal point to the left. Any chance you can suggest this to Siglent? Is it something that can be fixed with a firmware release?
A lot of other things would be more important to fix before this.
Stability (and accuracy) of the 4W resistance measurement is not very good for very low resistance (at least with 3065X) so for that reason it's better to use a different setup for this kind of measurement.
Let me show this via an example.
A very low resistance (~1.5mOhm, just a short piece of wire) is measured with 4W way and alternatively using a current limiting lab PSU set to 1A (just for the sake of easy calculation) and measuring the voltage at the same time (with 4W measurement basically the same is done but without control over the current).
The resulting trend chart I think tells it all and I trust the millivolt measurement more (that corresponds to mOhm) just looking at the stability....
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The price on the 3055 definitely makes it attractive but I'd like to make sure it checks off all the basics, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what to expect from it on resistance measurements.
For sub Ohm measurements either in Auto range or the minimum 200 Ohm range it could certainly be improved with shifting the decimal point to the left so to allow for more digits below the decimal point.
There probably just is not more resolution to show. The test current is likely 1 mA and thus 1 µV voltage resolution for the last digitt. An additional digit would probably be noisy and far from accurate anyway. After all the 3055 is 5.5. digits only.
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The price on the 3055 definitely makes it attractive but I'd like to make sure it checks off all the basics, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what to expect from it on resistance measurements.
For sub Ohm measurements either in Auto range or the minimum 200 Ohm range it could certainly be improved with shifting the decimal point to the left so to allow for more digits below the decimal point.
There probably just is not more resolution to show. The test current is likely 1 mA and thus 1 µV voltage resolution for the last digitt. An additional digit would probably be noisy and far from accurate anyway. After all the 3055 is 5.5. digits only.
alexvg and her interesting research thinks otherwise:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-siglent-sdm3055/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-siglent-sdm3055/)
Unfortunately on hold while she helps with the current health crisis.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=203502.0;attach=847028;image)
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...Stability (and accuracy) of the 4W resistance measurement is not very good for very low resistance (at least with 3065X)...
...A very low resistance (~1.5mOhm, just a short piece of wire) is measured with 4W way...
In this very low ohm range, "even with 4-wire operation", the quality of the contacting of the terminals is extremely important.
A second pass with only slightly changed clamps (just plugging in and reconnecting) can produce completely different results.
And also the stability, even during one and the same measurement (you can almost say not cough, don't hit a door, don't wobble at the table...)
depends extremely on the quality of the contact.
When it gets very low-resistance I have started to connect loose, not built-in objects with screw terminals.
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In this very low ohm range, "even with 4-wire operation", the quality of the contacting of the terminals is extremely important.
I've used exactly the same probing for the 2 measurements of my 2 screenshots. Actually I didn't even touch the probes that contacted the "resistor" to be measured as I plugged to the PSU the other end of the cable.
The only difference was the the higher current used with the measurement. With that the DMM was no longer forced to measure voltage near to the noise floor. Btw. the stability of the DMM is probably better and when I write noise floor I mean the entire setup. So the noise floor of the DMM is probably better, but my setup (mostly cables) were picking up noise. I could have used better probes but that's the hard way (and expensive as well) to improve measurement accuracy and stability.
The easy (and cheap) way in this case is to use higher current.
Talking about improvements, some ideas to Siglent related to screenshot creation.
First: It would be better if I don't need a deep dive in the menu system just for creating a screenshot. If a dedicated button is not possible (because of the current labelling) a 2 button shortcut would be great still. As a (non-negligible) side effect, the screenshot would be probably showing the measurement setup menu and not the storage menu that is always shown now (and bears little value to me).
Second: The confirmation request for screenshot saving is really annoying. Is that really such a huge risk that by accident an extra screenshot is created? This resembles me to the age of Windows 3.1 or so when everything was asking confirmation that if I really really really want to do some trivial and low risk operation.
Third: If I plug in a USB memory stick (or storage) I usually do it on purpose. I would be so great if in this case the device defaults to that so I don't need another deep dive each time in the menu system to switch from internal storage to external. Your mileage may vary, but for that could be another option what should be the default behaviour.
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I received my SDM3065-SC a couple days ago. So far I haven't had time to use it for anything real, but I've been playing with it a bit. I did a quick measure the resistance of a short, just clipping a couple leads together so there was something to measure and watching the trend chart scroll by with the statistics displayed underneath. It varies more than I thought it would, 0.0411 to 0.0449 ohm for a couple bran new (literally first time connected to anything, still has that fresh silicone smell) test leads clipped together. I hope the uA range doesn't have the same variance.
General first impression is the UI has some fixable awkwardness. The depth of menus to get to the screen shot feature is a good example. There is that nice bright blue, tangible, physical "Shift" button on the keypad, but it is under utilized, no effect on any on-screen menus or under-screen button usage. The numbering and ordering of "Probe Hold" measurements displayed is counter intuitive. It makes sense up to the 8th measurement, but then it keeps the "1st/2nd/3rd measurement" numbering but shifts the measured values up for the 9th and beyond measurement. If they changed to ordering of the measured values to always have the most recent first on the list, or otherwise increment the measurement numbering to reflect the actual Nth measurement, it would make much more sense.
The layout of the scanner card seems odd to me... I was planning on making a breakout box with a bunch of banana jacks and using ribbon cable or something similar to keep it all nice and neat going from breakout-to-DMM, but with the board's layout and terminal block choice I'm thinking using ribbon cable will be a PIA. Also, would be nice if front panel measurements were exposed as "channel 0" when in scanning mode so you have one channel with full V and A ranges. Not sure if the front panel technically counts as 1 channel plus a second dedicated current channel, so perhaps "channel 0" is not sufficient...
The custom sensor feature is pretty nice, for my purposes anyway, but it needs work. Same UI awkwardness, and you have to navigate and reload your custom sensor file every time you switch to any other function (like DCV/DCI/etc). For built in supported temperature sensors, the last one selected is always the default, but not your custom sensor. You can use arbitrary current, voltage, or resistance based sensors, specify what custom unit you want displayed, and it will automatically prefix magnitude (m/u/n/etc). I'll be trying it out more in the next couple weeks.
But I'm happy so far. At the price with a 16 channel scanner card, my nitpics are easy to work around.
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With very low resistors it is just a very low voltage to measure. With likely one 1 mA the 0.1 mOhms digit corresponds to 0.1 µV and at this level some noise is normal. It is not just the meter, but also changes in external thermal EMF. So one may have to protect the resistor to measure from air drafts and not hold the cables in the hand.
More current helps, but it needs quite some extra HW, especially the protection gets more complicated.
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...just clipping a couple leads together so there was something to measure and watching the trend chart scroll by with the statistics displayed underneath. It varies more than I thought it would, 0.0411 to 0.0449 ohm for a couple bran new (literally first time connected to anything, still has that fresh silicone smell) test leads clipped together. I hope the uA range doesn't have the same variance...
To see what really happens with a short-circuited input, it is better to use a direct bridge (no cable) with well-contacting resilient surfaces.
Congratulations on the SDM with scanner card. :)
Since it is not bought so often with SC, you don't hear very much experience with it.
I wonder what they will report with the handling of this card.
(I am thinking about buying a second 3055 with SC in the distant future...).
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Still interested in case anyone with a 3055 can post a photo showing the lowest dBm reading that will display on a 3055.
Thanks
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Screenshots SDM3055 on the fast.
I don't know whether this is the lowest possible dBm value ?
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Ok, just tested with 1.01.01.16R2 and with 1.01.01.19 (unfortunately I didn't have 1.01.01.20 and 1.01.01.20R1).
With these two older versions, this problem does not exist.
Saving works perfectly with these.
So clearly a bug in 1.01.01.20R2 :'(
A big thanks for your efforts on this. :-+
High importance email going to Siglent with your findings. :)
Any news on this, since I like the logging function (1.19) and also the new bigger font in dual mode (1.20R2).
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Unfortunately so far nothing new whether results will come soon.
Since I can not do without some functions of the 1.01.01.20R2, I have been living with the errors since then.
Logging and screenshots so long, unfortunately, only via the computer.
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@klausES: I'll post scanner card info when I build my breakout for it. I have some printing experiments to do before I finalize my faceplate, so prob a couple weeks-ish. I'm not sure what "best practices" exist for such a thing. I'm debating "installing" a many-position connector mounted on the back of the DMM (the scanner card has an external aluminum handle/wire tie ring on the back) but I'm not sure how much negative effect that will have on measurements. But then I wouldn't need to pop out the scanner card if I needed to move or maneuver the breakout around and reroute wiring in and around my bench/shelves... Or use different breakouts for different uses/projects/fixtures. TBD I guess.
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As long as you don't have to measure in really low µV ranges in which thermal voltage plays a role, the other 4 or 2 mm laboratory standard sockets will not be a problem.
How about routing the cable from the card into another small flat housing with the sockets, cable lengths just so that you can e.g. could stand next to or under the DMM.
The socket housing may snap into a socket or rail that is screwed to the table / shelf so that it cannot slip away when the plug is inserted / removed.
(I'm building something like this as an external scanner for my 3055 without SC).
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Has anyone messed with the new "Custom Sensor" feature of the 3.01.01.07 firmware for SDM3065X? I haven't found documentation on it yet. I think I've figured it out but I'm getting some odd behavior, so I'm not sure if it's just me or if I've found a bug.
I'm measuring a photodiode in photovoltaic mode, so zero applied voltage. Spec says 0.4A/W response with 1.2mm^2 active area. I measure it with regular DCI mode on 3065 DMM and get +/- 0.8nA when the sensor is in a dark box, and around 1.5uA with sensor pointed at ambient lighting. Those numbers seem reasonable to me with a little noise around zero. Turning on statistics with averaging puts "zero" at about 0.1nA, which is decently accurate in my book.
With the custom sensor mode, you can select DCI as the sensor type, which I did, and you enter a few Measurement->Result data points into a table for the DMM to interpolate, which I did. But the sensor results I'm seeing appear to have 2 separate issues that might be bugs. First, the interpolated displayed result of a current sensor measurement in ambient light seems close but not accurate to what I calculate it to be. This might be a misunderstanding on my part, but I havent found docs on this feature yet. The other issue is when you change Temp mode (with custom sensor selected) to display both measured value and interpolated result, the current reading from the sensor is showing around -170nA for "zero light", which I already measured with the same DMM at 0.1nA. Changing back to normal DCI mode instead of Temp mode shows the expected 0.1nA. The other issue I found is not enough significant digits in the table entry, +/-000.000001 is the smallest you can enter, so I can't just manually force an offset adjustment to work around the wierd "-170nA" reading issue. I'm not positive, but auto-zeroing seems like it might be turned off in Temp mode with a DCI mode sensor.
So... Am I hitting bugs, or am I just not doing something right?
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Firmware bug, with the newly added PT1000 thermistor the SCPI command "CONF:TEMP RTD,PT1000" is missing
TEMP:MDEF:RTD:TRAN PT1000
TEMP:TRAN?
>> MANU DEFINE,RTD,PT1000
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pipe2null,
Try copying the custom sensor file to a thumb drive then edit the file in Excel and you should be able to edit smaller then +/-000.000001. Once done then copy back.
Has anyone messed with the new "Custom Sensor" feature of the 3.01.01.07 firmware for SDM3065X? I haven't found documentation on it yet. I think I've figured it out but I'm getting some odd behavior, so I'm not sure if it's just me or if I've found a bug.
I'm measuring a photodiode in photovoltaic mode, so zero applied voltage. Spec says 0.4A/W response with 1.2mm^2 active area. I measure it with regular DCI mode on 3065 DMM and get +/- 0.8nA when the sensor is in a dark box, and around 1.5uA with sensor pointed at ambient lighting. Those numbers seem reasonable to me with a little noise around zero. Turning on statistics with averaging puts "zero" at about 0.1nA, which is decently accurate in my book.
With the custom sensor mode, you can select DCI as the sensor type, which I did, and you enter a few Measurement->Result data points into a table for the DMM to interpolate, which I did. But the sensor results I'm seeing appear to have 2 separate issues that might be bugs. First, the interpolated displayed result of a current sensor measurement in ambient light seems close but not accurate to what I calculate it to be. This might be a misunderstanding on my part, but I havent found docs on this feature yet. The other issue is when you change Temp mode (with custom sensor selected) to display both measured value and interpolated result, the current reading from the sensor is showing around -170nA for "zero light", which I already measured with the same DMM at 0.1nA. Changing back to normal DCI mode instead of Temp mode shows the expected 0.1nA. The other issue I found is not enough significant digits in the table entry, +/-000.000001 is the smallest you can enter, so I can't just manually force an offset adjustment to work around the wierd "-170nA" reading issue. I'm not positive, but auto-zeroing seems like it might be turned off in Temp mode with a DCI mode sensor.
So... Am I hitting bugs, or am I just not doing something right?
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Tjuurko,
Thanks, I did find that SCPI command, but it should work also with CONF:TEMP RTD,PT1000 because CONF:TEMP RTD,PT100 works.
Firmware bug, with the newly added PT1000 thermistor the SCPI command "CONF:TEMP RTD,PT1000" is missing
TEMP:MDEF:RTD:TRAN PT1000
TEMP:TRAN?
>> MANU DEFINE,RTD,PT1000
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pipe2null,
Try copying the custom sensor file to a thumb drive then edit the file in Excel and you should be able to edit smaller then +/-000.000001. Once done then copy back.
I tried that and the results got weirder. I'll try it again in case I did something wrong, or maybe add some more variations/datapoints.
The main problem is the current reading in DCI mode (good) and current reading in Temp-CustomSensor-DCI mode (weird) is different by a significant amount. The photodiode in photovoltaic mode should only produce current in one direction, since no voltage is being applied, so the only negative current measurements should be at or close to zero due to noise in measurement. The "-170nA" difference is too small to assume that the DMM is for some reason applying a voltage across the current jacks for general purpose sensor use (like what it would do across voltage jacks to measure resistance), but it is too large to assume that auto-zeroing of current measurement is turned off while in sensor mode. Unless I'm missing something pretty significant, which is completely possible, it looks like a firmware bug.
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tautech,
Do you know when Siglent is going to issue the updated firmware that Calvin has noted in the below post.
Hi,
received a test firmware from Mr Rottach that finally fixes the logging prob of the SDM3065X.
Now I can switch between different displays and the logged data is kept. :-+
regards
Calvin
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tautech,
Do you know when Siglent is going to issue the updated firmware that Calvin has noted in the below post.
Hi,
received a test firmware from Mr Rottach that finally fixes the logging prob of the SDM3065X.
Now I can switch between different displays and the logged data is kept. :-+
regards
Calvin
Nope I don't sorry, I prefer not to trouble them while they go about the work we give them which lately has been a bit. However when been promised that some improvement is not far away and doesn't materialize I get out the :horse: !
User adjustments is what I've been pushing behind the scenes lately and if you are all up to date with 3065X FW and hunt through menus you might notice the first incarnations of it.
Ideally it needs be polished more so owners can easily extract their original calibration as a backup should they stuff up any adjustment to the original calibration.
There's a secret draft of the procedure that we hope will be released before long and also ported to 3055 so owners with accurate references can address any measurement inaccuracy and aging drift.
I check for updates most days and post them in their appropriate threads so those that have posted in them like you have here will see new replies flagged when you next visit.
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I got the device SDM3055, checked in the Diode and Continuity mode - the reaction time is not super, but within the acceptable range I am satisfied. The diodes are checked with, Threshold 2-4V, a voltage of test 6V, a current of 1mA.
Thanks to all!
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All measurements were made with SDM3065X-SC
SW Version ID: 3.01.01.07
HW Version ID: 02-02-00-05-00
Production ID: SDM3065X
Mode: DCV, Auto Zero - Off, Input Z - 10G, Rel - Off.
Measurement of ultra-low voltage (Range - 200mV, 100PLC).
±1.5 μV voltage span
[attach=5]
The figure is missing some positive values.
If we take unique negative and positive values and construct the lines, then they will not coincide (the difference is 0.5 steps).
My step = 29.331 nV
[attach=1]
Very small bandwidth in 0.05PLC.
[attach=2]
Attempts to save data to an external USB drive: 0.005PLC, RAMP 1Hz ±2Vpp
[attach=3]
Part of the data turned into garbage.
Overlaying icons on top of each other.
[attach=4]
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@klausES:
It took a little while longer than I expected, but I finished the basics of my scanner card breakout. I ended up rolling 4 separate projects into it:
- SDM3065X-SC scanner card breakout (the bottom half, plus green earth ground binding post to DMM case, plus BNC is the Ext Trig brought to front)
- Breakout for a cheap PC power supply (I've been meaning to do this for a while, just didn't get around to it previously)
- Metering for cheap PC power supply rails to OLED displays (don't have the metering circuits done, but the screens look pretty... Heh)
- SCPI server via ESP8266 to dump Metering data to network (not done, but screen looks pretty... Heh)
[attach=8]
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
[attach=5]
[attach=6]
[attach=7]
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Very very slick ! :-+
3dp enclosure ?
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Yup, 3DP. Used a Prusa Mk3S with MMU2S (filament multiplexer, 5 filaments/1 extruder). The black text and line art is actually printed into the case. I had a helluva time minimizing text size while keeping it readable, PIA color bleed. Added 2 layers of clear TPU on the front face since I think it just has a better physical feel to it than PETG. I had intended on doing the full Siglent logo on the case too since I had 2 other filament materials/colors available, but ran out of real estate and motivation for the extra work. Heh. Will probably put logo as a bitmap on the network status screen (upper right).
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Thats real slick... i need to make one of those, just ordered a SDM3065X-SC yesterday
Any idea how long it usually takes them at the factory Tau? Im guessing i wont see it till the end of May
pipe2null, anyway i could convience you to post your 3d model and bom list?
I'd love to modify it and do a side piece to go next to it instead of under and those plugs you found look pretty close to factory
right now that shelf has my SPD3303X with a SDG2122X on top of it and next to that is currently my one SDL1030X which will soon be with the SDM3065X-SC on the bottom, and two SDL1030X units stacked on top of it
So i need a side piece that will fit to the right side of that and break those out
Main reason i finally picked up the SDM is for themocouple logging when doing heat stressing and just because its cool.. i'd gone with a lesser line and hacked it but in this line its all different hw boards so boo
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Yup, 3DP. Used a Prusa Mk3S with MMU2S (filament multiplexer, 5 filaments/1 extruder). The black text and line art is actually printed into the case. I had a helluva time minimizing text size while keeping it readable, PIA color bleed. Added 2 layers of clear TPU on the front face since I think it just has a better physical feel to it than PETG. I had intended on doing the full Siglent logo on the case too since I had 2 other filament materials/colors available, but ran out of real estate and motivation for the extra work. Heh. Will probably put logo as a bitmap on the network status screen (upper right).
No shit? thats the exact 3d printer and multiplexer i got lol... im dying to get your files and printer settings now ^^
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Yup, 3DP. Used a Prusa Mk3S with MMU2S (filament multiplexer, 5 filaments/1 extruder). The black text and line art is actually printed into the case. I had a helluva time minimizing text size while keeping it readable, PIA color bleed. Added 2 layers of clear TPU on the front face since I think it just has a better physical feel to it than PETG. I had intended on doing the full Siglent logo on the case too since I had 2 other filament materials/colors available, but ran out of real estate and motivation for the extra work. Heh. Will probably put logo as a bitmap on the network status screen (upper right).
No shit? thats the exact 3d printer and multiplexer i got lol... im dying to get your files and printer settings now ^^
Well, don't get toooo excited, I did it all in OpenSCAD and some people hate that software. No problem on posting files, I need to clean it up a tiny bit first. But since I'm feeling lazy, expect the files to be messy and disorganized. Only catch is PLEASE DO NOT distribute my library for openscad support for layering/keepouts/etc. I'm going to release it soon, but it needs work and peer review. Hopefully it might catch on and we'll see more reusable part models that include keepouts and other nifty bits that make them easy to incorporate into other designs... Perhaps wishful thinking... Heh.
I'll post 'em after I do a little cleanup and add some comments (needed to explain how the layering/keepouts are done).
I'd love to modify it and do a side piece to go next to it instead of under and those plugs you found look pretty close to factory
right now that shelf has my SPD3303X with a SDG2122X on top of it and next to that is currently my one SDL1030X which will soon be with the SDM3065X-SC on the bottom, and two SDL1030X units stacked on top of it
So i need a side piece that will fit to the right side of that and break those out
Doing the front face following the 20 degree angle of the DMM increased real estate just barely enough to fit the bottom row of banana jacks. Down the road I'll probably do something more stackable, but I need to use the thing for a while to see how my work flow ends up going. For my use, the main benefit of the extra channels from the scanner card is when working on multiple different projects at the same time, no need to disconnect one to work on a different one. I was thinking of making some fancy prototype solderless breadboards with built-in binding posts, but use a multi conductor connector to my breakout instead of only having banana jacks... Thoughts for down the road a while...
EDIT: BOM of sorts:
Bananas: The gray is same as DMM dark gray buttons, yellow pretty close to "warning yellow", and the purple is extremely close to the blue-ish purple or purple-ish blue of the Siglent logo. And the specialized tool for the banana nuts cost almost as much as the banana jacks... Yea, I didn't realize that part until after clicking checkout. I went with the quick connect termination only because I intend to redo the whole thing at some point (to be stackable), but quick connect requires a lot more clearance behind the panel, had to bend the bottom row up a tiny bit to keep from hitting table top.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2238-8/CT2238-8-ND/5028413 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2238-8/CT2238-8-ND/5028413)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2238-7/CT2238-7-ND/5028412 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2238-7/CT2238-7-ND/5028412)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2238-4/BKCT2238-4-ND/5765431 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2238-4/BKCT2238-4-ND/5765431)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2246A/BKCT2246A-ND/5765459 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cal-test-electronics/CT2246A/BKCT2246A-ND/5765459)
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Any idea how long it usually takes them at the factory Tau?
Ohio doesn't have them marked as out of stock but if your reseller hasn't got them I guess any supply delay will be just how long it takes Ohio to get one to your supplier.
https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3065x/
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Any idea how long it usually takes them at the factory Tau?
Ohio doesn't have them marked as out of stock but if your reseller hasn't got them I guess any supply delay will be just how long it takes Ohio to get one to your supplier.
https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3065x/
I live about 45min from Solon ;p, I'm just south of there in Akron
I emailed saelig this morning but haven't heard back other than a generic back order email
Interesting, so siglent has units with the expansion card already made up? Thats cool, I was thinking they were all made to order from their wording.. Probly still next week I'd guess if they ping ponging it, maybe I get lucky and they drop ship
I'd just drive up there but doubt they do that :scared: :-/O |O I got a bad case of the tea
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@pipe
Sweet, thanks man.. owe you a beer
All good, I hardly publicly share anything of that sort, ill send you back whatever I end up making
My use case is also similar but one project with different slow analog channels like relay switching, transducers etc and also having correlated temp data will be fantastic
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Any idea how long it usually takes them at the factory Tau?
Ohio doesn't have them marked as out of stock but if your reseller hasn't got them I guess any supply delay will be just how long it takes Ohio to get one to your supplier.
https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3065x/
I live about 45min from Solon ;p, I'm just south of there in Akron
I emailed saelig this morning but haven't heard back other than a generic back order email
Interesting, so siglent has units with the expansion card already made up? Thats cool, I was thinking they were all made to order from their wording.. Probly still next week I'd guess if they ping ponging it, maybe I get lucky and they drop ship
I'd just drive up there but doubt they do that :scared: :-/O |O I got a bad case of the tea
They should carry heaps of the SC models in stock but Siglent configure them at the factory so they are not a model we can put together at will as there are additional parts in the SC models apart from the card itself.
Some connectors, mechanical fittings the card slide in on and a bus driver IC that's not populated on the PCB.
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My respect. You put a lot of effort into it. :-+
This is really nicely done. :)
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Any idea how long it usually takes them at the factory Tau?
Ohio doesn't have them marked as out of stock but if your reseller hasn't got them I guess any supply delay will be just how long it takes Ohio to get one to your supplier.
https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3065x/
I live about 45min from Solon ;p, I'm just south of there in Akron
I emailed saelig this morning but haven't heard back other than a generic back order email
Interesting, so siglent has units with the expansion card already made up? Thats cool, I was thinking they were all made to order from their wording.. Probly still next week I'd guess if they ping ponging it, maybe I get lucky and they drop ship
I'd just drive up there but doubt they do that :scared: :-/O |O I got a bad case of the tea
They should carry heaps of the SC models in stock but Siglent configure them at the factory so they are not a model we can put together at will as there are additional parts in the SC models apart from the card itself.
Some connectors, mechanical fittings the card slide in on and a bus driver IC that's not populated on the PCB.
Holy cow.. Saelig told me they won't have any till July!! Digikey lists Siglent NA having.... 1
Possible saelig could shake it lose or do I eat an extra 150 bucks? :/
Edit: Said fuck it and ordered direct from siglent na, thanks for the tip off, nobody has stock of these apparently short of importing
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Here's the scad's for my scanner card breakout. It's messy, but you've been warned... >:D
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Here's the scad's for my scanner card breakout. It's messy, but you've been warned... >:D
Thanks pipe, i'll figure it out hehe
Im going to put a couple high amp 24V/30A power supplies in mine as well with additional breakouts for my load units
Not sure what banana jacks i'll get just yet, im thinking a mix of what you did and binding posts along with bnc connectors and i'll need a few high amp ports
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Here's the 30A binding posts I went with, and might as well throw the other parts down as well:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pomona-electronics/6883/501-1316-ND/737883 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pomona-electronics/6883/501-1316-ND/737883)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pomona-electronics/3760-5/501-1506-ND/736554 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pomona-electronics/3760-5/501-1506-ND/736554)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/zf-electronics/CRE22F2BBRLE/CH809-ND/446075 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/zf-electronics/CRE22F2BBRLE/CH809-ND/446075)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/640903-1/A0903-ND/172542 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/640903-1/A0903-ND/172542)
I also have a 24V/20A PS along side the PC PS power rails, that's what the second switch it for. Not sure if you know or not, but the scanner card current channels 13-16 are 2A max. To let you in on a little secret, the color scheme of the banana jacks worked out really well, but it was purely accidental. The pandemic made digikey out of stock on all the normal colors when I was trying to place the order, so I rolled the dice on the available colors and got lucky... Hehe.
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All measurements were made with SDM3065X-SC
SW Version ID: 3.01.01.07
HW Version ID: 02-02-00-05-00
Production ID: SDM3065X
Mode: DCV, Auto Zero - Off, Input Z - 10G, Rel - Off.
Measurement of ultra-low voltage (Range - 200mV, 100PLC).
±1.5 μV voltage span
The figure is missing some positive values.
This looks like a software problem: with 100 PLC the ADC should be using averaging over may shorter conversions. So even if there would be a gap in the hardware, averaging should fill the gap, at least partially. Here the edges are rather sharp, like some software related effect (e.g. using a slightly different slope for positive and negative voltages and not getting the pieces fit together perfectly). Aside form the gap the performance looks quite good: low noise and DNL also looks good (except for the gap).
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Here's the 30A binding posts I went with, and might as well throw the other parts down as well:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pomona-electronics/6883/501-1316-ND/737883 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pomona-electronics/6883/501-1316-ND/737883)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pomona-electronics/3760-5/501-1506-ND/736554 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pomona-electronics/3760-5/501-1506-ND/736554)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/zf-electronics/CRE22F2BBRLE/CH809-ND/446075 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/zf-electronics/CRE22F2BBRLE/CH809-ND/446075)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/640903-1/A0903-ND/172542 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/640903-1/A0903-ND/172542)
I also have a 24V/20A PS along side the PC PS power rails, that's what the second switch it for. Not sure if you know or not, but the scanner card current channels 13-16 are 2A max. To let you in on a little secret, the color scheme of the banana jacks worked out really well, but it was purely accidental. The pandemic made digikey out of stock on all the normal colors when I was trying to place the order, so I rolled the dice on the available colors and got lucky... Hehe.
Yeah I saw they are 2A limited which is more due to using small gauge wire.. and they made them dedicated channels too boot.. I'd rather they had them multiplexed with at least something else
Not exactly sure i'd ever use them, I'm more likely to get a precision small ohm resistor and read the voltage drop across it
That's funny about the color scheme.. i thought you completely did that intentionally lol
I'll probly get the chinese knockoff versions, sometimes they are good.. sometimes not and too loose but usually they work out and are a 1/4 the cost
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It's a TEA party
I'll add the port extender to the right of the triple stack where my tek boxes are atm
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Seriously?!?!?!? You can still see the wall. You can do better. >:D
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Seriously?!?!?!? You can still see the wall. You can do better. >:D
+1
What's up with that?
:)
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Seriously?!?!?!? You can still see the wall. You can do better. >:D
Still, Elasia's got a nice rack....and normally one would only say that to the fairer sex. ::)
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I never thought I would say this, but yes, I am jealous of his rack... :palm: Though, like so many profile pics, it is a little out of focus, but it appear well rounded and perky... I'll stop before I devolve into Monty Python and Huge Tracts of Land.
Seriously?!?!?!? You can still see the wall. You can do better. >:D
Still, Elasia's got a nice rack....and normally one would only say that to the fairer sex. ::)
I was trying out being a TEA enabler, seemed like fun. Starting out on this forum, every time I started a topic that tautech posted on, I somehow ended up buying a new piece of equipment. ;)
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Seriously?!?!?!? You can still see the wall. You can do better. >:D
+1
What's up with that?
:)
Well I did have a ton of crap up by the printer but i had to clean that shelf off so i could raise it lol
I never thought I would say this, but yes, I am jealous of his rack... :palm: Though, like so many profile pics, it is a little out of focus, but it appear well rounded and perky... I'll stop before I devolve into Monty Python and Huge Tracts of Land.
Seriously?!?!?!? You can still see the wall. You can do better. >:D
Still, Elasia's got a nice rack....and normally one would only say that to the fairer sex. ::)
I was trying out being a TEA enabler, seemed like fun. Starting out on this forum, every time I started a topic that tautech posted on, I somehow ended up buying a new piece of equipment. ;)
This site has hurt my pocket book for sure but its all things i deem essential should i ever get shit canned and forced to venture into the great depression upon us, have to stay skilled up and top line to ward off bean counters.. its already paid off 100x fold
Seriously?!?!?!? You can still see the wall. You can do better. >:D
Still, Elasia's got a nice rack....and normally one would only say that to the fairer sex. ::)
if you like the rack, you should see whats underneath ;p
Actually nothing but my computer is obviously to the left, i might post my lab pics in that one thread later once i clean my office up again
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I never thought I would say this, but yes, I am jealous of his rack... :palm: Though, like so many profile pics, it is a little out of focus, but it appear well rounded and perky... I'll stop before I devolve into Monty Python and Huge Tracts of Land.
Seriously?!?!?!? You can still see the wall. You can do better. >:D
Still, Elasia's got a nice rack....and normally one would only say that to the fairer sex. ::)
I was trying out being a TEA enabler, seemed like fun. Starting out on this forum, every time I started a topic that tautech posted on, I somehow ended up buying a new piece of equipment. ;)
:-DD
With the price and capability of gear today it's sure hard not to get on the buying bandwagon as you can have a good lab for not too much $.
Thanks for the brand support guys.
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Doesn't want to appear impatient, but the flawed 1.01.01.20R2 for the SDM3055 was released over 7 months ago,
the errors in this version alone have been reported to Siglent by users here since January / February and nothing has still happened to this day... :-//
Is Siglent doing something else or have you long since decided to just leave the SDM3055 buyers out in the rain ? :--
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I agree with klausES, logging to the USB that does not crash seems a mandatory function of a reputable 5.5digit multimeter.
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Today I received my SDM3045X. I was a little bit surprised that it also has the "Filter" menu option that the 3055 has in one the videos I saw and no other 3045X from one of the videos or pictures had it. Was this added to the 3045X?
I also have this ugly thing when booting up (see attached image). Is this something to worry about?
Best,
weeky
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Well that doesn't look right...
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It boots correctly, the software has the ID 5.01.01.05 and hardware ID 03-00-00-05-00. Should I better send it back?
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I would suggest doing a firmware update first, that might fix it, the SiglentNA site shows the latest being 5.01.01.05R3 so might be slightly different to your current one, although it was released late last year.
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3045x-series
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Thanks for the suggestion. I tried that now and it did not change the inverted "Kernel starting...." screen from appearing
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Thanks for the suggestion. I tried that now and it did not change the inverted "Kernel starting...." screen from appearing
I have to run out now for a few hours but have further tools to sort it if new firmware doesn't fix it.
Double check the Sys info to see the new firmware is loaded.
Please post the results.
Back later..............
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Hello, yes the new firmware is loaded, the info screen gives the correct id "0.01.01.05R3"
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This wrong and upside down boot logo already occurred here with SDMs.
If I remember correctly, could tautech help with the recovery software.
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Hello, yes the new firmware is loaded, the info screen gives the correct id "0.01.01.05R3"
OK, is the boot screen still corrupt ?
PM sent.
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Hello, yes the new firmware is loaded, the info screen gives the correct id "0.01.01.05R3"
OK, is the boot screen still corrupt ?
PM sent.
And returned, Batronix got member weekly all fixed up with the recovery files. :-+ :phew:
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@klausES:
It took a little while longer than I expected, but I finished the basics of my scanner card breakout. I ended up rolling 4 separate projects into it:
- SDM3065X-SC scanner card breakout (the bottom half, plus green earth ground binding post to DMM case, plus BNC is the Ext Trig brought to front)
- Breakout for a cheap PC power supply (I've been meaning to do this for a while, just didn't get around to it previously)
- Metering for cheap PC power supply rails to OLED displays (don't have the metering circuits done, but the screens look pretty... Heh)
- SCPI server via ESP8266 to dump Metering data to network (not done, but screen looks pretty... Heh)
Is there a separate website with more details about the project?
Is it 12 channels or 16 channels?
The Siglent website talks about 12 channels, while your breakout board has 16 channels.
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@klausES:
It took a little while longer than I expected, but I finished the basics of my scanner card breakout. I ended up rolling 4 separate projects into it:
- SDM3065X-SC scanner card breakout (the bottom half, plus green earth ground binding post to DMM case, plus BNC is the Ext Trig brought to front)
- Breakout for a cheap PC power supply (I've been meaning to do this for a while, just didn't get around to it previously)
- Metering for cheap PC power supply rails to OLED displays (don't have the metering circuits done, but the screens look pretty... Heh)
- SCPI server via ESP8266 to dump Metering data to network (not done, but screen looks pretty... Heh)
Is there a separate website with more details about the project?
Is it 12 channels or 16 channels?
The Siglent website talks about 12 channels, while your breakout board has 16 channels.
His 3d files and parts list are in the thread since i asked for them as well awhile back :P no project site
It's 12 channels of voltage scanning or 6 channels of 4 wire resistance/voltage scanning, 4 channels of current sensing for a total of 16 on the scan card
It has its own manual with specs
http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/SC1016_Datasheet_DS60030-E02A.pdf (http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/SC1016_Datasheet_DS60030-E02A.pdf)
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Doesn't want to appear impatient, but the flawed 1.01.01.20R2 for the SDM3055 was released over 7 months ago,
the errors in this version alone have been reported to Siglent by users here since January / February and nothing has still happened to this day... :-//
Is Siglent doing something else or have you long since decided to just leave the SDM3055 buyers out in the rain ? :--
8 months and nothing from Siglent except empty promises.
5 months ago they wrote to me that it was my turn.
4 months ago they wrote me that all reported bugs could be traced and they were working on it.
I waited another 2 months until I asked carefully and politely if there was anything new. The answer was that you would apologize and get in touch very soon.
Another 2 months and nothing has happened to date.
I am really disappointed... >:(
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I was thinking about getting a 3045X or 3055 (once there's some followup on klaus' issue) and was wondering about calibration.
Has anyone sent their siglent DMM out for cal or found a local place that can do it? I'm just concerned about finding places that will cal things other than fluke & keysight. I'm in the US and there's no cal labs locally except the one at work and we can't use that unfortunately. So really I'd be looking for some place I can ship it to.
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I was thinking about getting a 3045X or 3055 (once there's some followup on klaus' issue) and was wondering about calibration.
Has anyone sent their siglent DMM out for cal or found a local place that can do it? I'm just concerned about finding places that will cal things other than fluke & keysight. I'm in the US and there's no cal labs locally except the one at work and we can't use that unfortunately. So really I'd be looking for some place I can ship it to.
Transcat is their main one
https://www.transcat.com/ (https://www.transcat.com/)
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/ (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/)
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I was thinking about getting a 3045X or 3055 (once there's some followup on klaus' issue) and was wondering about calibration.
Has anyone sent their siglent DMM out for cal or found a local place that can do it? I'm just concerned about finding places that will cal things other than fluke & keysight. I'm in the US and there's no cal labs locally except the one at work and we can't use that unfortunately. So really I'd be looking for some place I can ship it to.
Transcat is their main one
https://www.transcat.com/ (https://www.transcat.com/)
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/ (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/)
A User Cal manual procedure is under development that any Cal lab could also use as they have good references to apply if adjustments are required. I have a draft for the 3065X but it's secret at this time sorry.
It's apparently gunna be available for 3055 models too.
Otherwise it's something like a Fluke universal calibrator PC controlled with scripts from the Siglent factory.
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If currently the only option is to send it to transcat, has anyone done that and how much did it cost and how long did it take? Kind of annoying when a company sets it up so only one place can do maintenance on something but the only way to find out how much it costs is to go manually request quotes for everything.
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I was thinking about getting a 3045X or 3055 (once there's some followup on klaus' issue) and was wondering about calibration.
When you wanna buy a new one, Welectron directly offers both calibration methods for each Siglent SDM; you may also profit from germany's tax reduction from 19% down to 16% till the end of the year, in order to boost the economy during these Covid19-times:
Just have a look...at the moment Welectron is a few cents cheaper than Batronix...
...you may have to convert into $$$...
SDM3045X - 427,93 Euro
https://www.welectron.com/Siglent-SDM3045X-Benchtop-Multimeter (https://www.welectron.com/Siglent-SDM3045X-Benchtop-Multimeter)
SDM3055 - 520,54 Euro
https://www.welectron.com/Siglent-SDM3055-Benchtop-Multimeter (https://www.welectron.com/Siglent-SDM3055-Benchtop-Multimeter)
SDM3065X - 798,35 Euro
https://www.welectron.com/Siglent-SDM3065X-Benchtop-Multimeter (https://www.welectron.com/Siglent-SDM3065X-Benchtop-Multimeter)
Always the same price:
+ ISO-Calibration - 131,60 Euro
+ DAkks-Calibration - 184,23 Euro
Cheers!
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I was thinking about getting a 3045X or 3055 (once there's some followup on klaus' issue) and was wondering about calibration.
Has anyone sent their siglent DMM out for cal or found a local place that can do it? I'm just concerned about finding places that will cal things other than fluke & keysight. I'm in the US and there's no cal labs locally except the one at work and we can't use that unfortunately. So really I'd be looking for some place I can ship it to.
Transcat is their main one
https://www.transcat.com/ (https://www.transcat.com/)
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/ (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/)
A User Cal manual procedure is under development that any Cal lab could also use as they have good references to apply if adjustments are required. I have a draft for the 3065X but it's secret at this time sorry.
It's apparently gunna be available for 3055 models too.
Otherwise it's something like a Fluke universal calibrator PC controlled with scripts from the Siglent factory.
/steals draft
How far off do you think they are? Also is there a cal piece for the SC that you have seen?
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I was thinking about getting a 3045X or 3055 (once there's some followup on klaus' issue) and was wondering about calibration.
Has anyone sent their siglent DMM out for cal or found a local place that can do it? I'm just concerned about finding places that will cal things other than fluke & keysight. I'm in the US and there's no cal labs locally except the one at work and we can't use that unfortunately. So really I'd be looking for some place I can ship it to.
Transcat is their main one
https://www.transcat.com/ (https://www.transcat.com/)
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/ (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/)
A User Cal manual procedure is under development that any Cal lab could also use as they have good references to apply if adjustments are required. I have a draft for the 3065X but it's secret at this time sorry.
It's apparently gunna be available for 3055 models too.
Otherwise it's something like a Fluke universal calibrator PC controlled with scripts from the Siglent factory.
/steals draft
:-DD
How far off do you think they are?
Dunno but they got another stir up yesterday. :horse:
If nothing in a month I'm going looking for heads as they've had quite long enough to get their shit together. :rant:
Also is there a cal piece for the SC that you have seen?
Shouldn't be needed as the DMM's controller just connects the SC inputs into the SDM measurement chain so if the ranges are to spec so should the SC inputs be.
Maybe when the User Cal document is finished there will be SC info included.
-
Maybe when the User Cal document is finished there will be SC info included.
I was wondering if I should do a video about the user cal (once it can go public), I'm not sure how much I can say about it right now though, I'm assuming nothing :-)
-
I was wondering if I should do a video about the user cal (once it can go public), I'm not sure how much I can say about it right now though, I'm assuming nothing :-)
My vote: YES
-
My Also :-+
Do it. :-/O
-
Maybe when the User Cal document is finished there will be SC info included.
I was wondering if I should do a video about the user cal (once it can go public), I'm not sure how much I can say about it right now though, I'm assuming nothing :-)
+1
-
How noisy is the fan of the SDM3055? Is the fan-less SDM3045X a better choice for a quiet lab?
-
How noisy is the fan of the SDM3055? Is the fan-less SDM3045X a better choice for a quiet lab?
You know it's ON so yes if you want real quiet get the 45X instead.
-
Or they rebuild the fan story of the 3055/65 almost silently like I did.
In terms of space and design, this is very possible with many Siglent devices.
-
What is the 3065X like side by side w/ the 34461A and 34465A ? The last 1 is about $700-800 more, but just wondering.
For people that have the the 3065X, what other 6.5DMM would you say is most similar ? or you rank around the same?
I know I'd love 1 and the price, but there's lots of options, new and old.
-
The Rigol DM3068 should be relatively similar. With the keysight meters it would be more the 34450 or 34460.
The DMM6500 would also be a little similar though with some extras.
The SDM3065 / DM3068 use an SD-ADC chip and this has some effect on the performance: quite good in the non AZ mode, but with a slightly higher INL than the usual separate build ADCs.
-
Are you guys checking if the meter is drifting over time? Just wondering how stable it is.
-
What is the 3065X like side by side w/ the 34461A and 34465A ? The last 1 is about $700-800 more, but just wondering.
For people that have the the 3065X, what other 6.5DMM would you say is most similar ? or you rank around the same?
The 3065X is ... similar. Almost like they copied the 3446x U.I. Siglent did a decent job with the 3065X, but compared to the 34465A it feels cheap and a little slow to respond. The 3065X works, but don't have the premium feel to it.
Are you guys checking if the meter is drifting over time? Just wondering how stable it is.
Yes. My 3065X-SC drifted out of spec after 2 months. If you find an old datasheet for the LM1/2/399; the drift matched a fresh (not burned in) LM399 rather precisely. The A-brands have some sort of burn-in and selection process.
There is maybe a calibration document coming out, then the meter may become useful again.
I opened my meter on day 1. Thus no warranty. Also, I find it meaningless not being able to adjust the meter myself.
-
I was near to buy some of the SDM Multimeters, but SDM3065X drift, fan noise, firmware bug not solved on many months on SDM3055....
Would you buy again?
-
There is also fan noise in many other and more expensive devices.
You can do something about it.
(Fuck the guarantee. I'm not annoyed for 2 years with something that would bother me every day,
just to sit out the guarantee period ... it would be my nerves).
Otherwise I feel torn back and forth.
On the one hand, these SDMs offer good hardware for the price, the material and the feeling are good and they are very robust for daily use.
An SDM 3055 has been in use for several hours every day for almost 8 months and a drift
(compared directly after the purchase and now no drift at all) is not noticeable in mine.
On the other hand, I get annoyed every day that Siglent just tacitly decided not to do anything more to fix the software errors.
In the meantime it has reached a level with me that I think more and more often that I would rather spend more money on the next device than feel ignored again.
(Ok, but we all know that even a two hundred thousand dollar car is not flawless...)
It's actually a shame, because without these software errors I could call the 3055 a very reliable and good device without reservation.
-
I have been very happy with my 3065X, I just picked up a recently calibrated HP3457A, and the comparisons I have done so far show that the 3065X is holding its original cal pretty well (I have had the 3065X for a couple of years now), sure there is a little difference between the two meters but it is only about 20-50 counts in most cases (AC at frequencies above 100KHz shows a larger difference, in favour of the SDM3065X!).
It is worth noting that the SMD3065X actually has some of its specs being better than meters like the HP3457A! AC is certainly of higher accuracy on it.
I don't even notice the fan noise from it, sure it is there but it isn't that loud, I certainly have gear here that drowns it out completely !
-
Hi,
once a year I calibrate test resistors at work with a then freshly calibrated HP34401.
I crosscheck with my SDM3065X. Both DMMs run in high resolution lownoise mode with at least 100 samples averaged.
While the Siglent scores with its display, the HP scores with resolution.
What does that mean? Well, when You recall the recorded max. min. and avg. values the HP presents 6.5 digit values combined with a sensible change in units.
The Siglent displays the values with lower resolution and the switching between units is inferior.
This can make up to 3-4 digits in displayed resolution.
I regularly find this behaviour disappointing, since the Siglent is on par with the HP resolution-wise from its hardware and this issue is just a matter of a still buggy firmware.
In other words Siglent doesn't utilize the potential of their hardware.
Especially when I switch the device into its highest resolution measurement mode I expect to see high resolution measurements.
I didn't buy a considerably more expensive 6.5 digit DMM just to be presented with down to only 3.5 digits of resolution.
Since the last recent update took Siglent more than a year I'm afraid that a fix of this bug will take also a long time .... if ever it gets fixed.
While Siglent seems eager to update their shiny DSO and analyzer products fast the SDM3065X appears to be handled like a disbeloved child.
The SDM3065X is my only Siglent device I actually doubt to have made the best buy decision.
Once a year I come to point of thinking that the not-so-much-more expensive HP34461A might have been a better choice ... or a used 34401A.
regards
Calvin
-
Some good points to think about. I'm really disappointed the 34465A doesn't have any dual display, and that the DMM6500 barely has real buttons and a loudish fan.
So what about the older 3065X firmware's, did they fix stuff but break something else in the newest 1? Is it the type of stuff where 1 user might be fine with an older version, and others might be fine with the latest release ?
If I really want to "cheap-out", I'll get the 34401A, at least they are repairable to a degree, but it's like the steam-age compared to today's DMM's, or well the 1980s
-
that the DMM6500 barely has real buttons and a loudish fan.
The Keithley meter has a different design with a big touch screen. You may like it or not, but it can't be listed as a defect, it is a feature that make the meter unique. But for sure it is not for everyone.
Here in EU the price difference between the SDM3065X and the DMM6500 is less than €200 and less than €300 compared with the 34461A (where they completely copied the UI).
I'd go with Keysight if you like the UI or with Keithley if you need the extra features
-
For the comparison keep in mind the SMD3065 has a 20 V range, not just 10 V like the HP meters. It may be about the mode up to 20 V, not just the extra counts.
-
Hi,
in normal measuring mode both the SDM065x and the 34401 are quite on par.
The difference in displayed resolution is found in the logging mode.
Say we take 100 samples of 1,000000mV with the 6.5digit lownoise setting.
The HP may show a min-value of 0.999983mV while the siglent may display the same value as 0.000999V.
This rather crude behaviour regarding the switching of units in logging mode is disappointing to say the least ... or buggy to put it frankly.
@Mathwizard: as far as I know, they fixed bugs with the lastest update and didn´t introduce new ones or inferiorated other functions.
reards
Calvin
-
So logging mode is useless :-[
-
I'm really disappointed the 34465A doesn't have any dual display
Is that correct - no dual display? Same for 34461A?
-
This indicates for some measurements (VDC and VAC) there is a secondary display.
https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMKeysight34461A%20UK.html
And this definitely shows these DMM models have secondary functions:
https://youtu.be/ucJ1t6PpuSs
looks like several measurements on first two models can be displayed along with various secondary functions and the next two models can do more
-
Doesn't want to appear impatient, but the flawed 1.01.01.20R2 for the SDM3055 was released over 7 months ago,
the errors in this version alone have been reported to Siglent by users here since January / February and nothing has still happened to this day... :-//
Is Siglent doing something else or have you long since decided to just leave the SDM3055 buyers out in the rain ? :--
8 months and nothing from Siglent except empty promises.
5 months ago they wrote to me that it was my turn.
4 months ago they wrote me that all reported bugs could be traced and they were working on it.
I waited another 2 months until I asked carefully and politely if there was anything new. The answer was that you would apologize and get in touch very soon.
Another 2 months and nothing has happened to date.
I am really disappointed... >:(
Again two months in which nothing happened.
Neither that Siglent (the last time I was promised an apology 4 months ago that I would be contacted urgently...)
until today, nor that they had done anything.
I'm not talking about improvements, there are some that would be desirable, I'm talking about bugs.
Now 10 months of firmware with these many errors.
The device could be good without these errors, so I don't understand why Siglent doesn't finally fix them.
You keep selling this device with it.
I'm not an impatient person, but nothing after such a long time
and despite the promise to get in touch, no answer...
If I had known everything from today's perspective before buying... :-\
-
Bye Bye Siglent multimeters
Now I am looking at the AIM TTi 1908p, sure it is in another segment but the price point is interesting, half the cost of 34461A with 5 1/2 digits, all the conectivity needed for automation, 10A scale, dual readout, not so fancy screen, no trend charts but with quality hardware and firmware.
If I really need 6 1/2 digits, high impedance modes, or trend charts i would go with the Keysight route. It´s 300€ more than Siglent but it woks as spected.
The chineese path now only makes sense for me with multimeters in the price point of ET3240 (140-150€)
-
Seems like they've got more "construction sites" than just their bench multimeters... Their top-of-the-range AWG not outputting what's displayed on the screen directly after power-up is something you've really got to get used to... Waiting since one year for an update. For me, this actually rules them out for future investments though they appear to have released some decent gear recently.
-
might be a matter of resources, org structure, and mgmt priorities
would be interesting to know if scopes, power supplies, generators, SAs/VNAs, etc have dedicated or shared hw/fw engrs, sw devs, and product mgrs; when bug fixes and key features slow down it usually indicates some tension in priority setting and resource allocation between product mgmt and somewhere
edit: or might indicate end of life is near enough that someone doesn’t want to invest more when a new product is coming over the horizon, although usually the predecessor product gets some support while the new product is entering the market
-
That all is plausible and could well apply here.
This sector is not like e.g. the smartphone business.
The neglect of the support of a device that was just sold is consciously accepted.
The many people who all want to buy the successor are more important here than customers who still have a previous device.
In our area where not everyone buys a new instrument every year,
this approach is not beneficial for a company's reputation, at least in the long term.
-
In our area where not everyone buys a new instrument every year,
this approach is not beneficial for a company's reputation, at least in the long term.
Considering that this kind of equipment is very specialized and usually used at work / production enviroments, these kind of problems and the lack of support gives littlen confidence on the brand.
My feeling (may be wrong) is that Siglent has taken the route of copy of interface, copy of trend charts, (almost) copy of specs, produce an instumente that "looks" similar to Keysight 34461A and sell it 300€ cheaper, send some units for review to relevant content creators and thats all. Just "sell", no support, no debugging, just sell cheaper than occidental products.
I think 800€ is way too much for these policy.
May be 300€ cheaper, but in the end it is much much more expensive than 1300 on a full featured and supported product wichs performs as specced, or more expensive thana a 600€ on a product with less functionality but in full working state and fully supported.
-
Doesn't want to appear impatient, but the flawed 1.01.01.20R2 for the SDM3055 was released over 7 months ago,
the errors in this version alone have been reported to Siglent by users here since January / February and nothing has still happened to this day... :-//
Is Siglent doing something else or have you long since decided to just leave the SDM3055 buyers out in the rain ? :--
8 months and nothing from Siglent except empty promises.
5 months ago they wrote to me that it was my turn.
4 months ago they wrote me that all reported bugs could be traced and they were working on it.
I waited another 2 months until I asked carefully and politely if there was anything new. The answer was that you would apologize and get in touch very soon.
Another 2 months and nothing has happened to date.
I am really disappointed... >:(
Again two months in which nothing happened.
Neither that Siglent (the last time I was promised an apology 4 months ago that I would be contacted urgently...)
until today, nor that they had done anything.
I'm not talking about improvements, there are some that would be desirable, I'm talking about bugs.
Now 10 months of firmware with these many errors.
The device could be good without these errors, so I don't understand why Siglent doesn't finally fix them.
You keep selling this device with it.
I'm not an impatient person, but nothing after such a long time
and despite the promise to get in touch, no answer...
If I had known everything from today's perspective before buying... :-\
Prompted me to go searching for answers/excuses and the official word is new SDM3055 FW is under construction however no release date is offered.
-
I think 800€ is way too much for these policy.
Me too thinks the price is too high. It may visually appear very similar to more expensive gear, but inside it's not the same level of engineering. Anyway, if they sell it for this price, it means people buy it for this price :(. I guess, it's a natural evolution of a "cheap" brand. They start with equipment with attractive price, grow, then shift to more expensive and premium markets because margins are higher there.
-
I feel for the issues that you have been having with the SDM3045X/SDM3055 and the extremely slow firmware updates to fix the bugs you found, but for me the SDM3065X which I purchased a few years ago has been a very good meter, it has worked fine and not let me down or had any issues, in fact I have been very happy with it.
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The optics of the Siglent SDM3000 may come from well-known models (we all know which ones ;)),
but their workmanship and hardware cannot be compared with cheap equipment from China.
It's not high-end, but the current SDM series is no longer cheap at all and that's why they are no longer so cheap in price.
The times when there were only inferior items from China are long gone.
-
I recently purchased the SIglent SDM3055 on sale at Amazon. Generally pleased with it, although it has the problem previously discussed here with "lock-up" related to saving to USB flash or internal memory. I contacted Siglent and documented the problem. They have created a "Case number" and will address it (I hope)
------------------------------------------------
Email correspondence with Siglent:
From: Dave Shorthill <dshorthill@roadrunner.com>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 5:46 PM
To: Jason Chonko <jason.chonko@siglentna.com>
Subject: RE: New submission from Contact Form SDM3055 Problem
Thank you for your prompt response.
Make sure when trying to duplicate problem SDM3055 Firmware: 1.01.01.20R2
Using your example:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sample-and-store-sdm3000/
It works the first time per the above example.
Repeat example and the second time at Step number 11, set CSV and Store Data the instrument locks up (no response to any key press)
Power OFF and back ON..
Try above example.. same problem, locks up
Problem can be cleared by :
Power OFF and back ON..
SHIFT Utility Recall -> Security Erase
SHIFT Utility Recall -> Set to Defaults
Problem is the same for both Internal Memory or External (USB) Memory
Thanks
Dave Shorthill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
FROM JASON CHANKO
SIGLENT
Hello Dave,
I have reproduced the issue and opened a support case for you.
The number is ****.
I will submit this to Engineering and they can get a jump on it.
I’ll let you know if I learn more.
J
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Thanks for filing the support case Dave.
I literally had this issue yesterday working on a customer problem...didn't have time to recreate and open a case as I had lost about an hour's worth of data and needed to recover the lost time.
-Torsten
-
Hopefully it's not true that Siglent pretends to be new to this bug.
Probably the mistake is new to that one person.
However Siglent has known this error (and some other errors from 01/01/2020R2)
since the early stage of the year (at the latest since February alone from several people here from the EEV)
and it is until today, 11 months after the 1.01.01.20R2 was published still nothing happened.
-
The firmware updates for the SDM3055 have virtually been non-existent. Every time I need to use the meter I get buyer's remorse....
This is the most disappointing Siglent purchase I have made so far.
It's a real shame since it has potential.
SMH
-
The firmware updates for the SDM3055 have virtually been non-existent. Every time I need to use the meter I get buyer's remorse....
This is the most disappointing Siglent purchase I have made so far.
It's a real shame since it has potential.
SMH
Patience, new FW is currently under construction. :phew:
Some issues are taking time so as yet we have no ETA.
-
Hi,
oh, come on Tautech ... really? asking us for even more patience? ... rather ask Siglent to finally come to terms.
The update for the 3065x took more than a year and the logging function is still badly implemented (see #619) and no sign as yet, that they might be working on a fix.
The update for the 3055 is almost a year overdue.
Users have repeatedly been promised Siglent would act but nothing seems to have happened so far.
If Siglent hasn't lost interest in their DMMs alltogether I'd suggest they worked harder on the bugs and long known issues.
With their Oscopes and Analyzers they delivered updates at a high rate ... so why not with their DMMs?
For sure Siglents image aquired some scratches already because of this lazyness to act.
regards
Calvin
-
Hi,
oh, come on Tautech ... really? asking us for even more patience? ... rather ask Siglent to finally come to terms.
The update for the 3065x took more than a year and the logging function is still badly implemented (see #619) and no sign as yet, that they might be working on a fix.
The update for the 3055 is almost a year overdue.
Users have repeatedly been promised Siglent would act but nothing seems to have happened so far.
If Siglent hasn't lost interest in their DMMs alltogether I'd suggest they worked harder on the bugs and long known issues.
With their Oscopes and Analyzers they delivered updates at a high rate ... so why not with their DMMs?
For sure Siglents image aquired some scratches already because of this lazyness to act.
regards
Calvin
:blah:
Look, bitch all you like at me I've already been bitching at Siglent about issues for a good while. They have their own roadmap and who are we to change/alter it.
Yes, it is true they have been distracted by other new products that have been later released yet I've only relayed what Tech support have replied with.
Apparently there are some deeper issues they are working on for SDM3055 which is why there is a substantial delay.
To know they are working on it is good enough for me and I won't divert their focus with asking exactly what ?
Just repairing the ongoing boot freezes would be great progress as they take an amount of my time addressing the worldwide problems. Another in the EU this week. :wtf: :horse:
-
Hi,
look I don´t want to bitch you as you are the least one who´d "deserve" it ... it´s just that seemingly everybody who got a prob with any of the DMMs was repeatedly put off and asked for patience over a year-long run.
I guess we simply don´t want to hear any more ´be patient´ but actually see some progress in action.
The 3065 logging display prob is certainly nothing that would take so much time to correct and should Imho have been corrected with the last update at the same anyway (when they corrected the logging data memory prob), as would be the 3055 freezing prob, if they´d give their DMM range proper priority.
Just my 2c.
regards
Calvin
-
Siglent needs to realize that by neglecting their DMM products, they are actually negatively impacting their reputation for all of their products.
At this point I would be reluctant to purchase any further Siglent-branded equipment...
-
Siglent needs to realize that by neglecting their DMM products, they are actually negatively impacting their reputation for all of their products.
Understood it might be seen this way however there is much going on behind the scenes.
2 affiliated items are SDM3065X LM399 and SDM3055 Vref aging responsible for accuracy drift and the owners need to address this with one of the many good voltage references available. The like of Ian Johnston's Vref are perfect for this and more accurate than the factories initial calibration.
Hidden provision to adjust SDM3065X is already available yet not documented publically and needs further polish so owners cannot entirely corrupt the factory calibration and resort to it as a fallback mode.
It's been asked for also for SDM3055 yet I dunno if it will be implemented in this coming FW.
Yes, there is always much to improve.
-
Siglent needs to realize that by neglecting their DMM products, they are actually negatively impacting their reputation for all of their products.
At this point I would be reluctant to purchase any further Siglent-branded equipment...
So true... And not only valid for their DMM products, unfortunately! But there are enough other B-brand manufacturers that don't perform much better. ::)
-
Hi,
oh, come on Tautech ... really? asking us for even more patience? ... rather ask Siglent to finally come to terms.
The update for the 3065x took more than a year and the logging function is still badly implemented (see #619) and no sign as yet, that they might be working on a fix.
The update for the 3055 is almost a year overdue.
Users have repeatedly been promised Siglent would act but nothing seems to have happened so far.
If Siglent hasn't lost interest in their DMMs alltogether I'd suggest they worked harder on the bugs and long known issues.
With their Oscopes and Analyzers they delivered updates at a high rate ... so why not with their DMMs?
For sure Siglents image aquired some scratches already because of this lazyness to act.
regards
Calvin
:blah:
Look, bitch all you like at me I've already been bitching at Siglent about issues for a good while. They have their own roadmap and who are we to change/alter it.
Yes, it is true they have been distracted by other new products that have been later released yet I've only relayed what Tech support have replied with.
Apparently there are some deeper issues they are working on for SDM3055 which is why there is a substantial delay.
To know they are working on it is good enough for me and I won't divert their focus with asking exactly what ?
Just repairing the ongoing boot freezes would be great progress as they take an amount of my time addressing the worldwide problems. Another in the EU this week. :wtf: :horse:
Customers maybe ?
-
I had told Siglent about some bugs in Q1/2020. Siglent wrote me that they are released a new firmware during the next days. ;)
-
I had told Siglent about some bugs in Q1/2020. Siglent wrote me that they are released a new firmware during the next days. ;)
Was this a recent notification from Siglent or Q1/2020 when you told them of bugs?
-
All the bugs I told to my siglent contact person, they have to be retried in their lab. Sometimes they had problems, and asked. They were interested to understand the bug. Also for my siglent scope the fixed all my bugs, which I have reported. For example I have reported at the beginning of this year the bug, that I is not possible to store data to a file, if there already exists a file in the same directory. Maybe this will be fixed finally with the new firmware. I also reported today another bug, regarding my scope.
I someone finds a new firmware, pleas leave a message here!
-
...I also reported today another bug, regarding my scope...
What mistake? Maybe it's a mistake I don't know yet. ???
-
For comparison for everyone here, my list of errors for version 1.01.01.20R2 of the 3055 was communicated to Siglent at the beginning of this year.
SDM3055, firmware (1.01.01.20R2).
1. The device freezes with every attempt to save a csv file
(no matter whether on USB or in the internal memory)
if any previously csv file exist in the used directory.
2. The device freezes allways with every attempt to save a screenshot.
(Both, csv and Screeshot chrash failure, never happened with version 1.01.01.19).
3. Resistance cannot be set in continuity mode after booting.
You can only set the threshold when you go out there, select a different measurement type and then go back to Continuity.
After each start it happens again.
4. Threshold cannot be set in diode mode after startup.
You can only set the threshold when you go out there, select a different measurement type and then go back to Continuity.
After each start it happens again.
5. Temperature measurement:
If e.g. if a PT100 or 1000 is connected, overload is always displayed after booting.
To make it work again you either have to disconnect the sensor and connect it again
or select another measurement (voltage, current doesn't matter) and then return to the temperature measurement.
After each start it happens again.
6.
After the device was de-energized (despite "Power on Last" on), a whole series of settings are lost each time.
Get lost:
6.1. Screensaver (no matter which setting before), then on disable.
6.2. Selected settings Value Threshold for diode and Ohm for continuity are gone (back to 2.0V / 50 Ohm).
6.3. Setting the buzzer volume (diode and continuity) from quiet back to medium.
6.4. The sensor type, if seting to PT1000 or PT100 was selected for Temp, is then back on KITS90.
Everything has to be reset every time.
The device has no volatile memory with a battery. It should all be in one flash.
Turning it on seems to do some mismatch in the saved things...
-
Siglent wrote me today, that they had a problem during the repeated testing of the new firmware. So the new firmware will be delayed....
-
For those playing along at home ....
Use the firmware with the open telnet access.
Credit for the ADS file is due to tv84 :-+
Just ignore the errormessage and dont reboot, it will work anyways.
After reboot, the unit is back to its previous state, nothing is really installed.
The calibration is stored here:
/usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/DMM_calibration.xml
to copy it to USB drive:
cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/DMM_calibration.xml /usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0/
sync
Example for SDM3045X attached, port 10101
Chris
-
Does anyone really want to tell me credibly that Siglent is still serious about what to do ?
Does someone sit there for an hour a month, then the alarm clock rings and he must stop again ?
It has now been almost a year with these mistakes. At the same time, new systems and entire cars are being developed.
-
For me the most annoying bug is that the logging does not work anymore. I've used this a lot in the past, and this bug has been reported for almost a year ago. For the prices of the SDM3055 you may expect that it has a working logging function right ?
-
Hi,
what are the experiences with long time drift for ths SDM3045X and 3055?
Do they have the same V reference?
Recalibration has been quoted to me with around 200€ from a major teq dealer.
(Siglent Germany didnt bother to answer.)
Chris
-
Can anyone tell me where we get the usb driver for the SDM3055 for windows 10 ? i've been looking all over and can't find it at all..
-
Can anyone tell me where we get the usb driver for the SDM3055 for windows 10 ? i've been looking all over and can't find it at all..
Exactly what is the USB connectivity you need ?
To EasyDMM or something else ?
-
Can anyone tell me where we get the usb driver for the SDM3055 for windows 10 ? i've been looking all over and can't find it at all..
Exactly what is the USB connectivity you need ?
To EasyDMM or something else ?
Yes correct for easyDMM
-
Can anyone tell me where we get the usb driver for the SDM3055 for windows 10 ? i've been looking all over and can't find it at all..
Exactly what is the USB connectivity you need ?
To EasyDMM or something else ?
Yes correct for easyDMM
OK. The connectivity drivers (USB and LAN) for EasyDMM are in the NIVISA SW package that should be installed before EasyDMM SW or SDM connection to a PC otherwise the PC OS (Windows especially) will install and assign its own drivers to a SDM connection.
To remedy this situation you need first install NIVISA Runtime which is the slimmed down driver app although it's still the best part of 100 MB.
Follow your nose from here:
https://knowledge.ni.com/KnowledgeArticleDetails?id=kA03q000000YHweCAG&l=en-NZ
It's still very likely you will need to edit/replace the W10 USB driver so to point W10 to use the correct one and it's not hard. Attached is an old EasyScope guide I wrote for doing this and it will put you on the correct path.
Careful study of the EasyDMM install guide/readme would have had you set everything up correctly from the start, also attached.
Come back if you can't sort it and we'll work though it in detail via PM's or something.
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Can anyone tell me where we get the usb driver for the SDM3055 for windows 10 ? i've been looking all over and can't find it at all..
Exactly what is the USB connectivity you need ?
To EasyDMM or something else ?
Yes correct for easyDMM
OK. The connectivity drivers (USB and LAN) for EasyDMM are in the NIVISA SW package that should be installed before EasyDMM SW or SDM connection to a PC otherwise the PC OS (Windows especially) will install and assign its own drivers to a SDM connection.
To remedy this situation you need first install NIVISA Runtime which is the slimmed down driver app although it's still the best part of 100 MB.
Follow your nose from here:
https://knowledge.ni.com/KnowledgeArticleDetails?id=kA03q000000YHweCAG&l=en-NZ
It's still very likely you will need to edit/replace the W10 USB driver so to point W10 to use the correct one and it's not hard. Attached is an old EasyScope guide I wrote for doing this and it will put you on the correct path.
Careful study of the EasyDMM install guide/readme would have had you set everything up correctly from the start, also attached.
Come back if you can't sort it and we'll work though it in detail via PM's or something.
Thanks sir ! I got it working ! I used ip instead of USB cable, now to get my scope on line too !
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Hi,
I got my hands on a new SDM3045X and can report, that the annoying issues with the power LED are solved.
If powered off, the LED is off and no pointless blinking.
The power LED when switched on, is not as intense ant piercing as on older units.
Chris
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Hi,
I got my hands on a new SDM3045X and can report, that the annoying issues with the power LED are solved.
If powered off, the LED is off and no pointless blinking.
The power LED when switched on, is not as intense ant piercing as on older units.
Chris
What's wrong with the led being on when powered off ? isn't that a good thing to let you know there is power to the unit ? or that it's in standby mode ?
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Got an 3055 in December. Fan is a Delta Electronics AFB0612LC, blowing outwards.
As the press cut pattern in the outer case inhibits the air flow, the noise, resonated by the case, is by far the loudest sound in the room.
I put in a Sunon Maglev HA60151V4-1000U-A99, which is somewhat quieter than the Delta from the start.
Having added a 300 ohms resistor the noise is barely audible now, but you can still feel some air flow 10 cm from the case, so the air exchange rate within the case should be ok.
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Got an 3055 in December. Fan is a Delta Electronics AFB0612LC, blowing outwards.
As the press cut pattern in the outer case inhibits the air flow, the noise, resonated by the case, is by far the loudest sound in the room.
I put in a Sunon Maglev HA60151V4-1000U-A99, which is somewhat quieter than the Delta from the start.
Having added a 300 ohms resistor the noise is barely audible now, but you can still feel some air flow 10 cm from the case, so the air exchange rate within the case should be ok.
I'm going to be doing this to my Scope & DMM and Signal Generator ! I hate the fan noise of my scope its louder than my server sitting beside me.
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For the 3055 the risk seemed low, because the 3045 runs without a fan. For the FG and Scope, I would double check and search for tear down videos showing some temperature measurement.
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For the 3055 the risk seemed low, because the 3045 runs without a fan. For the FG and Scope, I would double check and search for tear down videos showing some temperature measurement.
I would probably use a Noctua fan & Try to match the CFM.. The cheap crappy stock fans are loud in Siglent gear (
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The problem is, that most of the noise occurs, because the fan is not able to press the planned cfm through the mesh. So it might be sufficient to do the effective cfms. However one could measure that. Maybe tape some kind of paper strip at the outlet and measure the distance they are blown away from the mesh.
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The cheap crappy stock fans are loud in Siglent gear (
With this I don't agree and you need accept that when an instruments cooling is designed for all markets the stock cooling may be excessive for your climate.
The only way to properly address this is to have smart fans and they are fitted into more expensive Siglent gear.
The problem is, that most of the noise occurs, because the fan is not able to press the planned cfm through the mesh.
Not so in an experiment I did recently with a SDS1104X-E by cutting the fan grille completely away.
There was NO noticeable difference in fan noise when the grille was removed.
Ambient temps dictate what can be done to reduce fan noise where in south China not far from Hong Kong 30+C for most of the day is very normal so good cooling is required to ensure long term reliability.
Stock fans have been very reliable and in hundreds of instruments sold just one fan has been replaced under warranty.
If we discount grilles from having a significant impact on noise as I do now that leaves slowing the fan to better suit your ambient temps or fitting a higher spec fan with lower noise. In small formfactor instruments we are limited to small fans with their higher RPM which creates most of the noise.
Careful adjustment of fan speed to suit your climate is the simplest solution at the risk of impact on instrument reliability.
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The cheap crappy stock fans are loud in Siglent gear (
With this I don't agree and you need accept that when an instruments cooling is designed for all markets the stock cooling may be excessive for your climate.
The only way to properly address this is to have smart fans and they are fitted into more expensive Siglent gear.
I'll take my chances, my room / shop doesn't get hot at all. However i do understand what you are saying now, makes 100% perfect sense. Thanks.
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Does anyone really want to tell me credibly that Siglent is still serious about what to do ?
Does someone sit there for an hour a month, then the alarm clock rings and he must stop again ?
It has now been almost a year with these mistakes. At the same time, new systems and entire cars are being developed.
Does anyone have any sort of update with regard to getting a firmware update?
It's been more than a year since the SDM3055 has had a FW release...and it still has major bugs... This is not the kind of support I was expecting from Siglent.
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SDM3055 beta FW is out for checking and if it doesn't require further fixes should be released soon.
I check for it daily.
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Thank you...
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SDM3055 beta FW is out for checking...
It would have been nice if at least the people who had been in contact with Siglent for a long time had been offered this beta for testing, or had at least received information about it.
Siglent and the big dealer in my country haven't contacted me for almost nine months.
What I think of this kind with the customers who tried hard and who had communicated the mistakes with Siglent, I prefer not to write here... :--
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New firmware for SDM3055 models.
Version V1.01.01.22
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3055_1.01.01.22_EN.zip
8.8 MB
Tiny list of release notes :-//
Fixed some crash fault about U disk save or recall.
Fixed some bugs about ‘acquire’ function.
Improve the trend display function.
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Thanks for the heads up tautech - I agree the release notes are slim...
I've done the update, no problems.
I haven't fully re-characterization the meter yet, but I can confirm the .csv saves now work.
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Why would a Chinese business invest in software when anyone can trivially copy it and use in their own competing products? Clearly there is no incentive to have good software, only exactly as much as is needed with the worst pain points alleviated. Same with hardware designs, with a strong bias for parts you can get cheaper than anyone else. Same with manufacturing; the only differentiator is whoever can manufacture, box, and ship product at lowest cost. Obviously this greatly disincentivizes investing enough in software or hardware to stand out - in other words, there can only be commodities.
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SDM 3055 just tried with 1.01.01.22:
EasyDMM no longer works properly.
The rest of EasyDMM is still running, but the Control Panel no longer works.
(3055 switches to Local when the EasyDMM Control Panel is called up and does not respond to Control Panel commands).
Units for temperature measurement are no longer C ° and F and K, but all three possible options are only displayed as K (Kelvin).
Only K is displayed in the selection option and in the operating display.
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Screenshots...
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Flashed back to 1.01.01.20R2
EasyDMM works again and C °, F, K available again...
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Klaus - thanks for starting to dig into this.
I haven't had enough time yet to evaluate myself due to workload.
Your findings are concerning...
-Torsten
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(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1148600;image)
KKK? :palm:
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Klaus - thanks for starting to dig into this.
I haven't had enough time yet to evaluate myself due to workload.
Your findings are concerning...
-Torsten
They are indeed.
klausES report confirmed however I find it just as disappointing that User Cal/adjustment has not been added like for SDM3065X.
User Cal/adjustment has been added for professional users with quality references. Procedure available only on request.
Email sent to Siglent......reply received.
Bugs will be promptly fixed.
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I updated my SDM3055 to version 1.01.01.22 to check the updated trend chart. Sorry to see the bug I reported a few years ago is still present. The image below shows an example of a ramp with a constant period of 1000 seconds. In the trend chart the time axis is still not correct, the older data is shown compressed.
[attachimg=1]
What I think happens is that when the buffer of 10,000 datapoints is full, some of the datapoints are removed, but the sample time with which new data is added remains the same. After data is removed from the buffer, the samplettime should be lowered so the new data matches the old one. For example: when you sample 10,000 points once per second and the buffer is full, you can remove half the samples. But from that moment the sampletime should also be halfed. The SDM3055 keeps sampling at the original rate which causes the old data in the trend chart to be compressed relative to the newer data.
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I have a beta of 22R1 that addresses the EasyDMM and temp issues.
9MB so can share it by email only...PM me.
Trend chart issues are under investigation.
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SDM 3055 just tried with 1.01.01.22:
EasyDMM no longer works properly.
The rest of EasyDMM is still running, but the Control Panel no longer works.
(3055 switches to Local when the EasyDMM Control Panel is called up and does not respond to Control Panel commands).
Units for temperature measurement are no longer C ° and F and K, but all three possible options are only displayed as K (Kelvin).
Only K is displayed in the selection option and in the operating display.
Hi Klaus
Have you tested the 22R1 beta firmware I emailed you ?
Anything to report ?
Is it fit for release ?
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Review of the SDM3045X from Elektor Magazine
https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/siglent-bench-multimeter-sdm3045x?mc_cid=10710d906f&mc_eid=6220c08305 (https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/siglent-bench-multimeter-sdm3045x?mc_cid=10710d906f&mc_eid=6220c08305)
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Any news on the release of 22R1 ?
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Any news on the release of 22R1 ?
None. Last I heard Siglent were trying to get additional stuff sorted for a bigger release.
If you’d like 22R1 send me your email and I’ll send it to you.
It’s been checked by a couple of members and got the thumbs up. :)
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New firmware versions for SDM3045X, SDM3055 and SDM3065X.
Please select the version dated 2021-02-07 for your SDM from this page:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?CateIdss=5
Release notes
SDM3065X
Version V3.01.01.08R1
Fixed some crash faults about U disk Save &Recall.
Fixed some bugs about “acquire” function.
Improve the trend display function.
Fixed some bugs about communication with EasyDMM
SDM3055
Version V1.01.01.22R1
Fix some unit faults of 22version.
Fixed some bugs about communication with EasyDMM
SDM3045X
Version V5.01.01.06R1
Fixed some unit faults in 06 version
Fixed some bugs about communication with EasyDMM.
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Nice!
The measurement functions and units are back on the 3055's display again!
I was about to go back to a former version.
Thx for giving the trigger for us here, tautech!
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In the Version for the SDM3055 (V1.01.01.22R1) I now can store multiple times data to a USB drive, but I can not SAVE the settings, than the device crashes.
I also make some changes (Screensaver to 1h) after the next boot it was still set to 1h, but later it was set back to disable? Why?
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For the SDM3045x there was alo an intermediate version, which possibly was not public:
2021/1/8 5.01.01.06
1. Fixed some crash fault about U disk Save&Recall.
2. Fixed some bugs about “acquire” function.
3. Improve the trend display function.
4. Update the software platform code.
So these fixes should also be included in the 5.01.01.06R1 version
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As I did not find the term "downgrade" here in this thread, may I ask if I am able to downgrade to an earlier firmware if the latest firmware version surprises me later with some hidden, not-immediately-visible problems?
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As I did not find the term "downgrade" here in this thread, may I ask if I am able to downgrade to an earlier firmware if the latest firmware version surprises me later with some hidden, not-immediately-visible problems?
Normally the release notes mention if FW rollbacks/downgrades can not be done.
As this is not mentioned expect an earlier version to be able to be installed without problems.
There were errors in version 22 and several members went back to an earlier version until we got 22R1.
Should there be any problem the recovery package installs earlier firmware and we can currently use it as a solution to your concerns if required.
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Hi there.
I just purchased an SDM3055 brand new, with a cal date of 01/19/2021, and just upgraded the firmware to the new version mentioned above.
My question is, does the instrument now reboot by itself after the firmware upgrade, cause mine does. It works just fine, and shows the new version, but once its done updating, (progress bar moves) it reboots on its own. It came with 1.01.01.20R2. I upgraded to the next one, and now this new version. Both upgrades behaved the same.
Is this a new "feature"? Its not mentioned in any instructions that I have read, including the ones that come with the firmware.
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Hi there.
I just purchased an SDM3055 brand new, with a cal date of 01/19/2021, and just upgraded the firmware to the new version mentioned above.
My question is, does the instrument now reboot by itself after the firmware upgrade, cause mine does. It works just fine, and shows the new version, but once its done updating, (progress bar moves) it reboots on its own. It came with 1.01.01.20R2. I upgraded to the next one, and now this new version. Both upgrades behaved the same.
Is this a new "feature"? Its not mentioned in any instructions that I have read, including the ones that come with the firmware.
Welcome to the forum.
Yes auto reboot after FW installs is standard and depending on the model range it may happen a couple of times.
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Thanks for the info, much appreciated. I came here looking for help and info, and found it!
Siglent might want to update their instructions, as it might tend to throw new owners for a loop, wondering if something went wrong!
The temp labels are back to normal, instead of KKK! :palm:
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Hi,
at least with the 3065x it truncates the measurement values of Min. Max. Avg. in logging mode on the display.
Are there any infos available as to if and when this ´bug´ will be resolved?
In the end its a 6.5digit DMM which only shows 4 digits in this mode. :palm: ... and its not due to running out of display estate area.
The Bug is really annoying when you do calibration work and need the precise figures.
regards
Calvin
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I apologize if this has been covered already, or a known feature, but here is my question / observation.
I was measuring AC voltage using my DMMCheck voltage reference on my brand new SDM3055 (using the most recent firmware), and noticed an interesting measurement.
While in just AC voltage mode, it shows 04.9980 (dead on). If I change it to dual display mode, with HZ in the small window, the AC voltage shows 4.99802. One more digit, and it updates just fine.
I can post pics if needed, but is this normal? I didn't think it was capable of that on this unit....or am I missing something?
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Yep normal as it displays the leading zero on the main display in some ranges.
It's been mentioned before as a waste of resolution and we'd all rather it didn't.
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As a 5 1/2 digit multimeter, should it be able to display a reading of 4.99802? Wouldn't that be 6 + (but no leading zero or one..?...)
...or just a quirk of this model / manufacturer?
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These are 219999 count meters, so really the 4.99802V reading shouldn't be possible, as it should be in the next range up (the 20V range), which would prefix with the 0 to show the range (although unnecessary), so this is likely an oversight in the firmware which gives you an extra digit for free... nice !
I just tested this on my 3065X and I have 6.5 digits regardless.
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The actual ADC inside has more resolution than what is displayed. This is especially true for the slower modes where likely several internal readings are averaged out. Some extra resolution is needed to use numerical cal factors instead of old style trimmers - so rounding artifacts are in the next digit not shown. It is the accuracy and reference that limit the useful resolution. So the extra displayed digit is more like a small software bug.
With modern DMMs it is common to get more resolution when reading the result to the PC. The display value should be limited to the digits that a reasonable reliable.
Often math functions can be used to display more digits, as here it is more difficult to cut extra digits.
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One of the 'features' I find strange on the SDM3055 is the 'Filter' function.
Does anyone understand why when enabling the "Filter", the DMM reads higher than it does without the filter enabled?
I would have assumed that the filter would average/remove noise, not apply a DC offset. It also seems that there is more 'noise' with the filter enabled...
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With DMMs there are 2 types of filters: one is digital filtering, usually a running average over a given number of points. This should reduce the noise quite a bit and should not effect the value. A different value from a digital fitler would be a software bug.
The other type of filter is an analog filter, more at the input. This was especially used in some older more higher grade DMMs. This can improve the hum suppresion and reduce noise from aliasing somewhat. However the resistors involved may also add some additional noise. It depends on the signal and implementation if the noise goes up or down. Especially with a low noise signal to start with, the noise may go up.
With leakage / bias currents there may be some offset involved.
I looks a little like the SDM3055 seem to have an analog filter. When enabling the fitler one may have to call something like Azero once, to compensate for at least some of the offsets.
Ideally there should be not change in offset - but there is a potential for errors, e.g. from bias currents or a not so good calibration (e.g. wrong correction of a jump that is there in HW).
It is a bit surprising to find a switchable analog filter in such a more low cost meter. Ideally the manual should explain what type of filter is implemented and what effect to expect.
With a SD ADC I would not not expect a very low frequency filter, so the settling time to the new value looks surprisingly long. An analog fitler would be more helpful with a classical MS-ADC or even more the recirculating reminder ADC (a sampling ADC) in some old Fluke meters. Because of the added costs and the settling time extra analog filtering is not very popular anymore, excepts for the more EMI part that is definitely needed.
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The SDM3045X has a filter function for the DC ranges too.
It is not mentioned in the manual and probably came with a later FW update(?).
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Kleinstein - I agree this looks like a very analog filter.
I've done a few more tests at 100mV and 0V (input shorted). In both cases there is an offset, and more noise with the filter enabled.
Is anyone else seeing this on their SDM3055??
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SDM3065X, last firmware V3.01.01.08R1.
A bar meter, that refreshes 1-2 times per second is completely useless! It must either be removed completely or it must be refreshed at least 15-20 times per second.
The "Power On - Last" option still does not work normally. The device sometimes turns on with default settings. Regardless of the state of the "Power On" option.
In fact, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes the device boots and immediately freezes (several times this happened in the continuity test mode)
And since Siglent copied the Agilent interface, it would be good to copy the "Continuity test" function from Fluke. The minimum length of the beep sound should be fixed (0.25 sec for example) even if the circuit was closed for a very short time (a few milliseconds), as in many Fluke multimeters. The problem with the continuity test is not a low refresh rate, but that the duration of the beep signal is equal to the duration of the circuit closure. And it doesn't always work well. In my humble opinion, of course ;)
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I seem to have found a way to solve most of the meter slowness issues. Try switching to an external trigger and applying pulses (positive, 100-500uS length), frequency, for example, 15-20Hz, to the external trigger input. Switch on the continuity check mode and... you will not recognize your meter: the response will be instant and stable!
https://youtu.be/l6XR-P07voM
I think most of the slowness problems are due to serious bugs in the internal trigger signal generation. It is constantly interrupted, this can be clearly seen on the oscilloscope in the continuity mode and other modes with fast synchronization.
It is also worth noting that the bar meter in the EasyDMM program works very quickly, as it should. And on the meter screen it is very slow, which is unacceptable!
There are also serious bugs in the "Trigger Delay" option in "Acquisition" screen. The sampling intervals do not correspond to the delay which setted and vary within 1 sec. If you set a delay of 1sec, then the real measurement interval will be 1.65 sec.
If you perform the same operations through the EasyDMM, then everything works correctly, because the trigger signal is most likely generated by a computer.
Everything above has been tested on SDM3065X, but I'm pretty sure it will work the same on 3055 and 3045X.
I believe that Siglent should solve this problem (unstable internal trigger generation) in the first place, this will greatly improved all aspects of working with the meter.
upd: the screenshot shows the "ragged" internal trigger signal in the "Continuity" mode
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It seems the resolution in statistics mode is only 5.5 digits. Most DMMs calculate statistics average to a higher resolution. Even switching the meter to relative mode does not improve it, even when the trend chart shows many digits.
[attachimg=1]
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Maybe you can get better results in EasyDMM IDK.
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EasyDMM = +1digit :) No more.
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Direct read over USB gives plenty of digits. So if EasyDMM doesn't show them, it's really a shame
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About the so-called firmware "error correction" in SDM30XX: One gets the impression that no one at all deals with these devices in Siglent. The Chinese programmer sat down at the computer, corrected something in an hour, and posted it without testing at all. Because those "changes and bug fixes" that are announced in the new firmware are complete evil! Correcting something one, breaking something else. There are no real fixes. Global problems of this meters remain in them for years. And there is no longer any hope that someone will actually fix something, and will not issue a "new" firmware in a year, which does not fix or add anything.
Siglent has great oscilloscopes and AWG lately, but meters are crap, sorry. And nobody is worried about it in Siglent. :(
I bought the SDM3065X a few weeks ago and am ready to throw it out the window for just freezing when working with a USB-drive. Not to mention the poor implementation of the registration function in general, the fantastic slow continuity test and the useless super-slow graphical bar meter. It can take a long time to list fatal errors...
Miser pays twice. There are no exceptions to this rule!
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maxspb69 - I think you hit the nail on the head. This feels like an abandoned product line.... such a shame... it has/had potential.
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A well-known problem with most Chinese equipment: good hardware, terrible software. This applies fully to Siglent meters. These would be excellent devices, if the firmware was made by professionals. :-BROKE
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Siglent has professional software teams - their other products show this. This feels more like a business decision/resourcing issue.
Enough said... :horse:
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And since Siglent copied the Agilent interface, it would be good to copy the "Continuity test" function from Fluke. The minimum length of the beep sound should be fixed (0.25 sec for example) even if the circuit was closed for a very short time (a few milliseconds), as in many Fluke multimeters. The problem with the continuity test is not a low refresh rate, but that the duration of the beep signal is equal to the duration of the circuit closure. And it doesn't always work well. In my humble opinion, of course ;)
That is funny how different people are different. ^-^
I absolutely hate Fluke latched continuity. I like real time, analog tone, that will be scratchy if contact is not good.
That gives me additional information of intermittent contact.. As they say, to each it's own...
Funny part is that meter could be made that could do both and have it user selectable.
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Siglent has professional software teams - their other products show this. This feels more like a business decision/resourcing issue.
Or a weak product manager.
It is the current topic of some discussion.
I bought the SDM3065X a few weeks ago and am ready to throw it out the window for just freezing when working with a USB-drive.
Please inform us of drive brand and size.
Your previous reports have been sent to Siglent just a few days ago as they have been on break for CNY.
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USB drives: Transcend USB2.0 8Gb, Transcend USB2.0 16Gb.
Most often freezes occur when I trying to load a custom temperature sensor profile from a USB drive. And if the file is not in the root directory, but in some folder - freezing occurs almost always.
Addendum: why does a 6.5-digit meter in "U-disk register" mode" write only 5 decimal places in 0.00000 format? Is this normal? 23.4654mV will be written as 0.02346V. On the contrary, the previous firmware recorded too many extra (false?) digits, but did not record time stamps. :scared:
Interestingly, does anyone check this before publishing? |O
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I'm following this topic for about 1 year because I'm looking for a new 6.5 digit bench DMM.
I have an old but very reliable FLUKE 45 but for tracking reference voltages of OCXOs the resolution is to low.
I'm pretty happy with my SIGENT SDS2000x+ and my SDG2042. So the SIGLENT SDM 3065 should have be a logic decision, if I wouldn't
have found this topic.
Possible alternatives I thought about were the Keithley DMM6500.
I appreciate the new approach with the UI but I think that I do not need all the possibilities and it is very very long and I have limited space
on my bench. The Keysight "original" 34461 is out of range for me, I set my limit for a DMM at a max. of 1k€.
The SDM 3065 is now about 6 years on the market and it seems to be from the hardware perspective ok but all what I read here with
the so easy to fix software problems let me hesitate.
In the meantime I bought a 20y+ old HP 34401a - rock solid, in spec and all what I need for long term logging I get with free software. And no boot delay! So I could spend some money for a second one and both together would be cheaper than one SDM3065...
It seems that Siglent does not take enough care of this product family and for that what I now get the device is overpriced (800€ in GER).
OK I can wait another year but if another affordable 34401a comes around I'll left the market as potential DMM buyer.
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The SDM 3065 is now about 6 years on the market
From P1 in this thread:
SDM3065X Released April 2017
I understand your comments and yes it has been far too long to have these DMM's bug free however we are getting some quality feedback from buyers to help with this and you can be well assured tautech is pressuring Siglent to finish polishing these products. When they arrived back from CNY there was already mails from me waiting for them which if there is no action soon I will take to the highest levels. :horse:
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Hi Tautech,
I know that you are fighting everywhere to satisfy Siglent's customers. And I appreciate this! Sorry for making the SDM3065 older than it is but you got my point.
It's sad to see that such a good designed product (from HW perspective) suffers from insufficient efforts in software fixes. We all are happy with the quarterly fixes and improvements
with the SDS2000X+ series and many hobbyist are very loyal to Siglent (I'm going to buy a SAA this year). And a lot of people like me are keen to get a good affordable (new) DMM.
So thanks for your hard work but someone at Siglent should decide what the future of the SDM family shall be.
B.D.
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Is there a way/hack/hw-modification to make the SDM3045X power-on when AC power is connected?
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There is nothing in the OS/firmware but you may 'hack' the button in a way that it is either pulled up or down to GND (you shall measure to find it out) for a while after powering the device (simple electrolytic capacitor and a resistor should do it).
Hints:
· by looking on the teardown pics I guess, J15 will probably be the connector where the power-on-button is connected.
and/or:
· See the teardown here: https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMSiglent%20SDM3045X%20UK.html (https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMSiglent%20SDM3045X%20UK.html)
Then search for "Q3", you may proceed from there on.
If you are successful, please add the needed information here.
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There is nothing in the OS/firmware but you may 'hack' the button in a way that it is either pulled up or down to GND (you shall measure to find it out) for a while after powering the device (simple electrolytic capacitor and a resistor should do it).
Hints:
· by looking on the teardown pics I guess, J15 will probably be the connector where the power-on-button is connected.
and/or:
· See the teardown here: https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMSiglent%20SDM3045X%20UK.html (https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMSiglent%20SDM3045X%20UK.html)
Then search for "Q3", you may proceed from there on.
If you are successful, please add the needed information here.
J15 goes to the USB connector. Looks like the power button controls some wakeup line and is one of those flat cable wires.
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Did more checking... Front panel power switch line goes to this point and grounds it when the power button is pressed. So, looks like now it needs just something to pull it to ground for few seconds when AC power is connected. Capacitor-resistor, relay or 555 timer.
Edit: I put 470 ohm resistor and 1000uf capacitor in series to ground from that point and now the unit powers on when AC is connected. Power switch still works and allows to power off and on again.
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Did anything ever happen with a user cal procedure that a third party cal lab (other than transcat) could use for any of these meters?
I still keep holding out hope that these SW issues and cal procedure get sorted out for these. From what I can see Instek and BK have the same issues around calibration at least so that would be a nice differentiator.
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Did anything ever happen with a user cal procedure that a third party cal lab (other than transcat) could use for any of these meters?
Yes there is a user adjustment process available for SDM3055 and SDM3065X but it is only available on request and not for public release.
If owners can demonstrate they have adequate references to calibrate to/against the procedure is made available.
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I'm considering one of these meters, but I have a concern about one of its features not working properly, specifically the hold feature.
TRX Lab did a review of the SDM3045X some time ago. In it, he tested the hold feature in comparison with his Agilent U1272A handheld meter. The review of that feature starts here: https://youtu.be/K09BLgyk9Hg?t=2005
Now, the problem is that, for him, when there's nothing being tested, the meter will randomly believe that there's a sample that it needs to capture, with the end result being that, firstly, your real sample will not be held for long as it detects another bogus one, and secondly, the history of such samples will fill with bogus samples fairly quickly. This is with the meter in autoranging mode but that might not make any difference, and in any case that would be my primary use case.
My question is: has this issue been resolved in the current firmware? Seeing how Siglent didn't (and perhaps still doesn't) seem to be treating these meters as first class citizens, I'm reluctant to purchase any of these meters if functionality that I'd really want would still be in a broken state, since under those conditions I may as well just pay a few hundred more and get an Agilent 34461A and be done with it.
If, on the other hand, the basic features of the meter have been dealt with, then the price of these would make them quite compelling.
One other question: the SDM3045X is a 60K count meter. The SDM3055 is a 240K count meter. The SDM3045X seems to retain its significant digits at medium speed, whilst the SDM3055 loses a digit and becomes the equivalent of the SDM3045X under those conditions. My question is: what is the count value of the SDM3055 when in medium speed mode? Is it still 240K counts, or is it 24K counts? If the latter, then the SDM3045X is actually better suited for my needs.
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Back in 2017 a Hold bug was addressed: Modify Hold function arithmetic.
You can find all the improvements listed in the Revision notes that are with each FW update.
There is also a chance not applying Rel in an EMI noisy environment could result in false measurements in Hold mode.
Readings/s settings allow the meter to settle for more precise measurements.
SDM3045X is fanless but has some different range specs to its bigger brothers so you need check the datasheet KC.
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Back in 2017 a Hold bug was addressed: Modify Hold function arithmetic.
You can find all the improvements listed in the Revision notes that are with each FW update.
There is also a chance not applying Rel in an EMI noisy environment could result in false measurements in Hold mode.
Readings/s settings allow the meter to settle for more precise measurements.
Hmm... well, maybe that's what was going on in that video (did you watch it?). But clearly, his Agilent wasn't doing the same thing. And in any case, in a noisy environment, going into rel mode won't help you because it's apparently the amount of variation in the value that determines whether the meter re-arms the hold trigger, and after that its just a question of whether or not a given value remains within some defined amount of variation that determines whether or not the meter decides that the new value qualifies as a new measurement.
I think it would be really useful to be able to specify a value window within which the meter should consider to be "probes off". That would take care of the problem nicely. That might require an alternative hold mode implementation, however, depending on how hold mode is implemented already.
SDM3045X is fanless but has some different range specs to its bigger brothers so you need check the datasheet KC.
I already checked the datasheet. It is utterly silent as to the counts of the meter in medium or fast speed modes. It should be easy enough to test. Do you happen to have an SDM3055? If so, could you switch the meter into medium speed and see at what value it switches ranges? My suspicion is that it'll be 2.4 something, which would make it a 24K count meter at medium speed.
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SDM3055
Fast/Medium
[attach=1]
Slow
[attach=2]
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SDM3055
Fast/Medium
(Attachment Link)
Slow
(Attachment Link)
Does that show the point at which the range automatically changes? That would be the point that's related to the "count" of the meter. The specifications say that the SDM3055 is a 240,000 count meter, which means that the range would change on or near that value. For instance, it would change from the 2V range to the 20V range when the voltage goes above roughly 2.4V.
In your case, you were at 7.5V, which would put you in the 20V range, and that's exactly what the display says. Thing is, if the meter were, say, a 60K count meter when in medium speed, then the transition point would shift from 2.4V to roughly 6V. But the 7.5 value you show would still put you in the 20V range even with a 60K count. That's what I'd like to see tested: when at medium speed, where's the transition point? I imagine it doesn't change based on the speed setting, but it's of interest to me anyway.
I may end up going for the SDM3055 regardless, just for the added flexibility. But I'm undecided at this point.
By the way, does fast mode really have the same number of digits as medium mode?
Also, if you could test hold mode to see if the issue I mentioned persists, that too would be very helpful.
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Switching happens around the 2.3999 --> 2.4000V, sorry that I did the test with my Rigol DP832A didn't have time to warm-up my Burster Gernsbach reference.
Slow/Medium has the same number of digits.
Hope this answers your 1st question.
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Switching happens around the 2.3999 --> 2.4000V, sorry that I did the test with my Rigol DP832A didn't have time to warm-up my Burster Gernsbach reference.
Slow/Medium has the same number of digits.
Hope this answers your 1st question.
Thanks, it does!
Be interesting to see what you see with hold mode. You're on the latest firmware, I presume?
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Any answers to the question about the hold functionality?
Right now I have an Instek GDM-8251A. Its hold functionality is pretty much worthless for what I'm after, since it takes a new reading whenever the value read differs from the current value by the specified percentage, and that will obviously happen whenever you remove the probes from whatever you're measuring. And its resistance mode is s....l....o...o...o....w for homing in on a resistance value. It's a 5.5 digit, 120K count meter, and works pretty well, especially for the price I paid (just over $100). But I'm looking for something significantly faster and it appears the Siglent qualifies. It would be immensely useful if the hold functionality worked the way it does for the Fluke handhelds and for that Agilent handheld that TRX Lab was using in his video.
Note that he's not the only person who had problems with the hold functionality. That was also seen here: https://youtu.be/kLfcEqmhwCE?t=615
The video was released in October of 2017. It's possible that the version of the firmware he's using precedes the version with the changes to the hold functionality.
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KC, I've looked through this thread trying to find Hold images thinking I'd put some up but haven't sorry however last time I played with Hold it worked fine and displays up to 8 measurements in a list.
If I get a chance today I'll get a unit out and pre sales check it and grab some shots of the Hold function.
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Teaser more to follow:
Hold mode, DCV, Filter ON, 10 minutes sitting idle with no probes connected.
~20 mins later zero further measurements recorded however when attaching probes of course triggers a measurement.
Second attachment is random measurements taken from a STB3 Siglent PCB.
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Teaser more to follow:
Hold mode, DCV, Filter ON, 10 minutes sitting idle with no probes connected.
(http://)
Well, for probe mode to be useful, it has to be "stable" in the face of connected probes, of course, since the use case here is that you're probing various parts of the circuit and you want the meter to recognize the difference between when the probes are performing a measurement and when the probes are just being held in-hand (with perhaps just one end connected to the circuit).
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Another thing noticed with 3045X was Hold measurements were slow to be recorded in Slow speed measure mode but just fine in Middle speed measure mode.
Any further requests before I put my stickers on it, check FW is latest and rebox it ?
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Another thing noticed with 3045X was Hold measurements were slow to be recorded in Slow speed measure mode but just fine in Middle speed measure mode.
Any further requests before I put my stickers on it, check FW is latest and rebox it ?
Thanks Rob! Much appreciated.
I have one question about the hold measurements: did it end up recording measurements when you had the probes off the DUT? It would be unexpected if it did. I notice a couple of very small voltages that landed in the list, and I can't tell if those are true measurements or if they are false ones. My concern here is false measurements polluting the list and, especially, pushing the current valid measurement to the list before I might get a chance to see it on the screen.
Also, how much time did you give it between measurements?
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KC, low readings happened to be Gnd planes and measurements were taken just seconds apart like you would when in normal use. No plan and only poked at a few pads and when it beeped moved on to another one.
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KC, low readings happened to be Gnd planes and measurements were taken just seconds apart like you would when in normal use. No plan and only poked at a few pads and when it beeped moved on to another one.
Awesome. Thanks!
I went ahead and ordered an SDM3055. Should be interesting to see how I like it, but from everything I've seen online, it should be very nice to use.
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Did anything ever happen with a user cal procedure that a third party cal lab (other than transcat) could use for any of these meters?
Yes there is a user adjustment process available for SDM3055 and SDM3065X but it is only available on request and not for public release.
If owners can demonstrate they have adequate references to calibrate to/against the procedure is made available.
Hi Tautech,
you wrote:
Yes there is a user adjustment process available for SDM3055 and SDM3065X but it is only available on request and not for public release.
If owners can demonstrate they have adequate references to calibrate to/against the procedure is made available.
Can you please tell us to whom we have to send our request for the adjustment process?
Would be great to have just the right contact..
Thanks and best regards
Peter
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Did anything ever happen with a user cal procedure that a third party cal lab (other than transcat) could use for any of these meters?
Yes there is a user adjustment process available for SDM3055 and SDM3065X but it is only available on request and not for public release.
If owners can demonstrate they have adequate references to calibrate to/against the procedure is made available.
Can you please tell us to whom we have to send our request for the adjustment process?
Would be great to have just the right contact..
Thanks and best regards
Peter
Welcome to the forum.
Latest firmware for 3055 and 3065X provided access to user adjustment but it is imperative that any reference standard used has been calibrated to high standards of accuracy otherwise your SDM will not meet its datasheet spec.
Any attempted adjustment must be carried out with great care after the SDM has been running for some time in a temp stable environment and using shielded cabling between any reference standard and the SDM.
Access to adjustment is in Utility>System Setup>Calibration although without a previously saved/uploaded ***cal.csv for the appropriate measurement type (VDC, VAC, ADC etc) will not allow selection of a new calibration adjustment to be loaded.
Therefore calibration adjustment tweak files must be first saved and then applied and this is initially done in Utility>Store Settings with a previously 'tweaked' Cal file in the correct format and file type.
The process while apparently complex is straightforward yet despite our pleas to Siglent they won't release it to the public domain.......yet.
Thanks MT as your post has served as a reminder to further discuss with Siglent to get easier access to User Cal procedures for owners of these bench meters that may have drifted out of spec.
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I actually think the calibration could be done in a MUCH better and simpler way than the existing method to make general user calibration easier (for those wondering, I have the required information to do the user cal as I was asked to test out the calibration procedure).
My suggestion is to employ the arrow buttons in a special calibration mode, you would inject for example, a DC voltage in the DC calibration mode, and press the arrow up and down buttons to trim the reading on screen until it matches the calibration source, this could be done for all of the required calibration points, that way a manual user calibration could be done very easily without the current additional steps or needing to use automated calibration setups.
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I actually think the calibration could be done in a MUCH better and simpler way than the existing method to make general user calibration easier (for those wondering, I have the required information to do the user cal as I was asked to test out the calibration procedure).
My suggestion is to employ the arrow buttons in a special calibration mode, you would inject for example, a DC voltage in the DC calibration mode, and press the arrow up and down buttons to trim the reading on screen until it matches the calibration source, this could be done for all of the required calibration points, that way a manual user calibration could be done very easily without the current additional steps or needing to use automated calibration setups.
From high up a short while ago:
I think we should generate an app note to explain the (User Cal) feature.
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Found a shot of my 3055 and two old guys.
Funny that the 45 and a 30 year old ones seem to agree by 10µV after all these years and the 3055 is some 400µV off.
But nevertheless the Siglent is well within spec, which claims 0.015% of reading + 0.003% of range (20V here), which is 1500µV + 600µV = 2100µV.
(https://up.picr.de/41446867yf.jpg)
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Oldies but goodies, I think newer stuff will never beat theses unless they use at least an lm399 or ltz1000 reference
the sdm3065 use one i think ??
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The old 34401 and 3455 meters may have been adjusted to the same reference (e.g. same cal lab / reference). With age the dirft often goes down, so chances are the 2 meters are quite stable by now.
The SDM3065 uses a different configuration, with a SD ADC chip instead of a separate build multi-slope ADC in the 2 HP meters. It still uses a LM399 reference, but the ADC chip needs additional scaling both for the reference to the ADC and also for the input signal in the 20 V range to the ADC. So the 20 V range is not so much the prime range for the SDM3065. So the drift is from more than just the reference chip.
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The old 34401 and 3455 meters may have been adjusted to the same reference (e.g. same cal lab / reference).
34401 is made in Malaysia, 3455 in USA. I bought both from completely different 2nd hand sources and the 3455 was most probably employed somewhere in a post USSR state for decades. So it might not be the same reference, but proper calibrated different references maintaining a sufficient high accuracy.
Anyhow. The divergence of all three is within the range of specs. So everything is fine and there is no need to think about calibration of the Siglent 3055 for me.
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From high up a short while ago:
I think we should generate an app note to explain the (User Cal) feature.
I spent today recording some video on the calibration procedure, I basically recalibrate my SDM3065X DCV modes in the video to show how it is done.
I also include information about some important points that must be considered and special steps that must be done that are NOT in the Siglent materials for doing the user calibration.
I will get this edited and ready to publish BUT I will not make it public until Siglent themselves make the process public.
And as (Bad) luck would have it just as I went to do the "after" comparison my Datron 4700 calibrator failed again... argh, so I couldn't show all of the DCV ranges like I wanted to, I could only show the 200mV, 2V and 20V ranges using Ian Johnstons PDVS2mini that I had on hand and had been on all day along with the rest of the gear.
I am now pulling my calibrator apart again as I write this to try and fix it again.
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Pop me a link Scott when it's uploaded and I'll forward it to Siglent.
I'm initiating some discussion with them about User Cal so your opinions may well be useful.
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I am currently at a 4.5..6.5 digit table DVM and looking for
. AC with symmetric audio input, so is there as V+ / V- and GND connection mode (XLR alike)
. AC with at least up to 300kHz
. Temperature using may a J or K type sensor and to have a trace curve from 0....15 minutes, so the curve ma presented on the PC with given or the data to plot with Excel. The sensor should be very little and good to connect to a very small box. Temp changes as little of 0.1... 0.5c to show on 20c...90c temperature range
. best without any fan noise :-DD
hp
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On the 3065x, is there a way to save settings like PLC, buzzer volume ?
I'm happy with mine so far, I haven't compared it to anything tho besides a 4.5D meter. I use 0.6PLC for most day to day stuff, and that's pretty fast to show the value on screen.
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KC, low readings happened to be Gnd planes and measurements were taken just seconds apart like you would when in normal use. No plan and only poked at a few pads and when it beeped moved on to another one.
Thought I'd mention that the hold function works very nicely for me, but I do have one significant complaint about it: the main value display needs to show the measured value for some minimum amount of time, like 5 seconds or something, so that you can take a measurement, hear the beep, and then look up and see what it measured. It would probably be best for this minimum time to be something the user can set.
Right now it doesn't do that, and there's no good reason for it to not do so, because it already shows the live value (in small font) as a separate thing.
Obviously, if a new measurement comes in before the expiration time, it would beep and replace the shown value with the new measurement (or you could make that something the user could disable, thus making it possible for the user to specify the minimum amount of time between measurements).
It's been very nice to use other than that.
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On the 3065x, is there a way to save settings like PLC, buzzer volume ?
I'm happy with mine so far, I haven't compared it to anything tho besides a 4.5D meter. I use 0.6PLC for most day to day stuff, and that's pretty fast to show the value on screen.
0.6 PLC is a rather unusual setting, as this has not much suppression of mains hum. The more usual fast speed is 1PLC (With many meters this is slightly less than 30(25) updates per second. With a meter with an SD ADC chip it could also be 60/50 updates per second.
For normal reading some 5 PLC is more suitable, so one can still see the last digit when fluctuating.
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So, my experiences with the 3065x (while Keysight is on shortage) so far as setting last used setup:
. Math dB value setup gets back to the ACV (using symmetric connections = bingo)
. Time graph range gets back to 60 seconds
What I would like to see:
. Time graph larger than 3600s, as used on stability measurement as current use & temperature deviations
. dB with more decimal digits as current XX.X
Overall, a different HW Gear user interface as the SDG, SSA, MSO, as the SSA at best. This looks like not as a common company WYSIWYG human interface
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so that's command lines, I haven't tried hooking up to my PC yet, whats the software like for these in windows ?
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so that's command lines, I haven't tried hooking up to my PC yet, whats the software like for these in windows ?
Fine but to be sure EasySDM installs correctly do study the install instructions and get NIVISA Runtime installed first as its drivers are needed for both LAN and USB connectivity.
Once the Runtime package is installed any of the Easy*** utilities can be added later without connectivity issues.
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Well,
after doing some graphs, saved them to local/internal storage as xx files...
So would lick to have those xx screen shots to copied on my PC, not as single BMP files:
- SDM action as Folder copy complains bout file missing... is the any *.* to enter
- USB access shows on W10/device mgr on IVI as: Device USB\VID_F4EC&PID_EE38\SDM36GBD4R1035 requires further installation. ...??
So no driver seen so far¨?
- also the BMP saved screen not as nice as SSA :(
so is there a simple way to copy those BMP files in one shot using USB/LAN??
Hp
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Good day.
I had noticed a strange thing with (just my?) 3065X: if I am doing long-term measurements of some parameter (say, resistance) and watching the trend chart, around 2-4 initial hours of measurements have variation amplitude that is almost twice smaller as all next measurements (attached is the screenshot from 16 hours of 4-wire resistance graph; temperature conditions are stable within +- 3 degrees Celsius, trend behaviour is consistent over many attempts; the unit was pre-warmed up for at least 2 hours; measurements are done with 100PLC, auto-zero and 50Hz mains). Unit firmware is the latest one for today, V3.01.01.08R1.
The second screenshot is from the shorter acquisition period and it shows how the amplitude growth starts.
Can anyone with 3065X check if their units behave the same? Or, maybe, it is an already known bug/effect?
Thanks!
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I think this is a bug I reported earlier on my SDM3055. The meter has 10000 points for the data in the trend chart. When they are all filled, some point must be deleted to make room for the new data. This is done in such a way that the data displayed by the trend chart is corrupted.
A work around is to increase the aquisition interval (e.g. to measure every few seconds) to prevent having more than 10000 points of data.
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Eric, good day.
I think this is a bug I reported earlier on my SDM3055. The meter has 10000 points for the data in the trend chart. When they are all filled, some point must be deleted to make room for the new data. This is done in such a way that the data displayed by the trend chart is corrupted.
A work around is to increase the aquisition interval (e.g. to measure every few seconds) to prevent having more than 10000 points of data.
This is the very good pointer, thanks for it. However, my second graph shows that the increase of amplitude can start as early as after an hour of measurements. I am using 100PLC and auto zero with 50 HZ mains, so this gives around 4 seconds between the data points (which is in line with the period of "Trig" circle blinks). An hour of measurements can give around 1000 points, not 10000.
Measured with 10PLC and auto zero for 1.5 hours (shoud yield 13 500 points) -- no jitter amplitude increase (though the measurement error is, of course, larger). The graph is attached.
Thus, it might be the other problem. What are the conditions to reproduce the problem you had found?
Thanks again.
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+- 3 degrees is a bit much, also when doing my calibration work on these I found that they need at least 4 hours to warm up fully to get the drift to an acceptable level, but even then I would try to give it a bit more time, they are pretty stable after two hours but are still drifting as they haven’t warmed up enough by then.
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Scott, good day.
+- 3 degrees is a bit much, also when doing my calibration work on these I found that they need at least 4 hours to warm up fully to get the drift to an acceptable level, but even then I would try to give it a bit more time, they are pretty stable after two hours but are still drifting as they haven’t warmed up enough by then.
I did checked the amplitude growth result after ~1 day warmup, multiple times. Actually, I had just cleared the trend data after the ~18 hours of measurement and it repeated the trend in amplitude increase. So, there were "more warming time" in my experiments. I had had the idea of the initial drift, so had tried to check/eliminate the starting conditions. I also did started my measurement attempts at the different time of day/night to rule out the effects of the outside temperature: it does not matter at all and measurements with 100PLC steadily give mean value 19 mOhm and graphs show no differences due to the different starting time.
Also, for the environment temperature: I am running 3065X without fan (and with passive coolers on the TI ARM and Cyclone chips), so it is slightly less affected by the outer temperature variations.
As you (still, I presume) have 3065X, hadn't you tried such a long measurements with 100PLC?
Thanks.
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may look also at https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3065x-issues/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3065x-issues/)
The X Time span is at may of 3600 seconds, so I am puzzled how you get hours X span's.
Open is still how to access the internal data using a USB connection or even SCPI. While getting the internal stored XX files is a pitta.
They clam a folder copy but this simple do not work, error box: select a file??
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The X Time span is at may of 3600 seconds, so I am puzzled how you get hours X span's.
In the Trend mode the 2nd from left under-the-screen button switches between All and Recent sets. I am looking at the "All" set.
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Thus, it might be the other problem. What are the conditions to reproduce the problem you had found?
Hi Rea,
I posted my issue earlier in this thread. It is on page 28 on 12-01-2021. There I describe how to reproduce it.
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I have seen that a new firmware (3.01.01.10) for the SDM3065X is available today. Has someone tested it? Any good news?
I have to admit that I pulled the trigger today for a 3065X from Welectron - I hesitated a long time but I like the Siglent stuff and you can never have enough DMMs :-DMM
And the price was outstanding..... :clap:
So I join this party as well.
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Hi,
just put the new Firmware on my SDM3065X.
Just as the revision history tells, there´s no correction of the math/trend bug.
[attach=1]
Just did a 4Wire measurement of a piece of wire.
As can clearly been seen the trend diagram shows the values down to the 0.1µR range (xx.xxxx m)
The by far more important Math values Min, Av and Max are worse by 3digits!!! Why?
Honestly Siglent???
This bug has been reported to You -and afaik had been acknowledged by you well before the last update Rev_08R1 in March ´21
I think I reported this bug almost 2 years ago.
It for sure is no big deal to correct for ... the more upsetting it is, that the bug is still there. :--
regards
Calvin
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The result shown for the average and std. dev are not really bad. Assuming a 200 ohms range as the lowest range the resolution is 0.1 mOhms and so is the resolution used for the average and 1 more digit for the std. dev. One could still argue that 1 more digit would be better, but anything beyound that are more or less random numbers / rounding artifacts.
So the display is actually not that bad. Many other meters (KS and Keithley tend to show additional random numbers at the end).
The slightly odd thing is more with the axis an the graph, showing way more digits than actually information.
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For the 3055 there is also a new firmware. V1.01.01.25 (Release Date 08.06.21)
I am excited... ;)
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3055 update just installed without problems. At a first glance no obvious changes visible.
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SDM3065X Firmware - V3.01.01.10 (Release Date 08.09.21 ) that is, 9th Aug 2021
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3065x-series
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So I've got an SDM3055. Great meter. Been fantastic for my needs so far. The one substantial gripe I have with it (and it's not a dealbreaker) is that the amount of time it displays a measured value in "hold" mode is far too short (it needs to be at least 5 seconds, or until the next measurement is made, whichever comes first).
But that's not related to the question I have here. The question I have here is with respect to 2-wire resistance mode.
Specifically, what I get when I short my leads. I'm using Probemaster leads, FWIW (excellent leads, these). When I short them together, I get a negative value for the resistance.
The question is: is that to be expected? I would think it's unexpected. I would think that the resistance value should always be some positive number no matter what. But that's not the case with mine, and it makes me wonder whether or not my unit is truly properly calibrated.
Yes, this is with the meter in a stable state. It has been running continuously for weeks in a reasonably well-controlled climate (indoors with air conditioning).
Thoughts?
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Have you tried a 4 wire short? What is the lowest ohms range and how negative does it read? If the error does not exceed specs, then you may just need to zero it before taking a reading. Some meters have two separate ohms zero adjustments, one semi-permanent and one readily accessed from the user menu that resets at least every power cycle.
I would think that the resistance value should always be some positive number no matter what.
The meter in resistance mode is just measuring voltage, with a separate part supplying a test current. Approximately the same uncertainties apply to this voltage measurement as would any other. That includes the possibility that a very small positive voltage plus an offset error within tolerances would result in a negative value being displayed.
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So I've got an SDM3055. Great meter. Been fantastic for my needs so far. The one substantial gripe I have with it (and it's not a dealbreaker) is that the amount of time it displays a measured value in "hold" mode is far too short (it needs to be at least 5 seconds, or until the next measurement is made, whichever comes first).
Submitted to Siglent as a feature request a few weeks back.
The question I have here is with respect to 2-wire resistance mode.
Specifically, what I get when I short my leads. I'm using Probemaster leads, FWIW (excellent leads, these). When I short them together, I get a negative value for the resistance.
The question is: is that to be expected? I would think it's unexpected. I would think that the resistance value should always be some positive number no matter what. But that's not the case with mine, and it makes me wonder whether or not my unit is truly properly calibrated.
Do you have Rel and/or Auto zero engaged ?
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Do you have Rel and/or Auto zero engaged ?
Sigh. Yes, this was user error. I didn't even notice that I had rel mode engaged. Explains a lot. Meter reads as expected when I turned that off.
|O
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I got my new SDM3065x today after hesitating a long time with the decision.
I did the firmware update and let it run for 3 hours together with my
old and in unknown calibration status but reliable 34401a.
Voltage source is an old analog and 723 based lab PSU.
First impression: 2x Wow! See attached photos.
slow acquisition mode on both DMMs, 100 PLC.
wow #1 for my 25 y old 34401a that it so nearby the new device.
wow #2 for the new 3065. Hope it keeps it calibration as long as the HP :-DMM
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I did the firmware update and let it run for 3 hours together with my
old and in unknown calibration status but reliable 34401a.
For an additional comparison, try leaving the PSU and one meter on overnight, then switching on the other meter and logging or observing its warmup curve relative to the other one. Then the next day do the same thing but reverse their roles. It will give you an idea of the tempco of the two units. You also now have a good way of guestimating the initial drift of your SDM3065X and I'd be very curious to see how it does over the next year.
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Good idea, thanks.
This is my first try with the new out of the box 3065x.
It will take same days since real life implication needs my attention |O
I have TestController by the hand, I will try your setup.
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Those old 34401As are absolutely amazing!! We have a couple.
What was the calibration date on your new SDM3065X? Ours was 2/2020 :-[
We've been watching for significant drift (another thread indicated a possible drift issue) after the SDM arrived last Saturday. The setup is a KS34465A, and a pair of 34401As, (HP & Agilent), the reference is based on an aged (~10,000hrs) LM399 and LTZ1000 (~500hrs) 10V sources. So far the SDM has shown ~80uv high reading and over the past few days drifted up to ~100uv and seems to be setting in ~100uv high.
Best,
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Calibration date was 2021-01-21.
I follow you on the other board and your measurements were the final push for me to get the SDM.
Yes, the 34401A are impressive. I was looking for a second one instead of the 3065x , but prices exploded during the
last years. Since sellers expect 400+€ for a device in unknown condition and I got my 3065 offered for a very good price
I decided for the new one. Hope (all fingers crossed) that it will be as good as the other Siglent devices I own (SDG 2042
and SDS 2014x+ both with forum improvement).
Update after 24h running: the 3065x is now 40 uV above the readings of the 34401a at 10 volts.
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I kept both units (34401a and 3065X) running for one week now.
After 24h the 3065x was a little bit above the HP, but starting with day #2 till today (day #7) its is about 40...50 uV below the HP (or the HP above the Siglent) and stays at this level.
The question is now, which device is more accurate :-// I can see clearly the rabbit hole in front of me.... :palm:
That looks very promising! Just for fun I placed my preferred handheld meter (UT181) and my old Fluke 87 (first generation, switched to 4.5 digit mode) because I read in the other SDM-issue thread about
such kind of comparison.
I played with the device during this week and it seems to be better than expected (but with the price I paid in mind).
Menus are not that intuitive but that I can learn. The display is great! And the fan noise is much lower than I expected after some comments here.
It's on the same level as my SDG2042X.
some issues and wishes that came up after playing with it:
#1 as mentioned by others the second measurement value is to small on the display - why??
#2 Trend chart is nice but I found no way to get access to the data or to go to a special time point on the time line
#3 I expected a kind of simple "Recording" function with file save on USB stick or internal as I have it with my UT181 (a nice copy of the Fluke 187 but faster and with much better display...and some other issues) see photo.
(I know that this is not the typical case for a bench DMM since there is all the PC software available but it should be easy to implement and very handy for simple measurement recording. Or have I overseen something?
#4 why the DMM needs 3 watts when powered of? Is it keeping the reference heated???
Edit:
o.k. I now found out that the DMM is storing measurements in 7 digits ongoing on an USB stick but the behavior is not really clear to me. Thanks to the great handbook! :--
How to use it best? With external trigger? With run/stop? Can someone give me advice? Is there a time stamp available?
A final question to Tautech:
My device has a certificate of 2021-01-21 but warranty (from the siglent web) till 2024-05-03, why this difference?
It has the hardware revision 02-02-00-05-00
I assume that manufacturing date is short before date of certification ?
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I kept both units (34401a and 3065X) running for one week now.
After 24h the 3065x was a little bit above the HP, but starting with day #2 till today (day #7) its is about 40...50 uV below the HP (or the HP above the Siglent) and stays at this level.
The question is now, which device is more accurate :-// I can see clearly the rabbit hole in front of me.... :palm:
I've no way to know which one is more accurate, but I'll bet money that the Siglent is the one drifting. At that price point perhaps some shortcuts are required, but the problem with not doing a thorough burning-in of the LM399s before shipping the meters is that not only are they not fully stabilized, but they also cannot be selected. So your long-term prospects are limited to the statistical characteristics of a random box of new LM399 (-A hopefully) and the best guaranteed spec (from the datasheet, perhaps big customers can get a different deal) appears to be if you order them with the guaranteed 20ppm/(kH)0.5 drift spec.
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It was a joke, I also believe that the 34401a has settled down to a stable state after 25y.
Let‘s see what next year brings. I have to redo all my lab cabling and than I can do some more serious tests.
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For most parts the 34401 would be more stable, at least compared to a new meter.
The 20 V example may be a little different: the SDM3065 can still use the 20 V range, while the 34401 must use the 100 V range, which is quite a lot less stable than the 10 V range.
A little more burn in may be a good idea. No need for 1000 hours, but some 20-50 hours would already help quite a bit to get more value to the initial calibration.
It is not only the reference, there are also some resistors / dividers than can effect the result, at least for some ranges.
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Yes, I will keep it running another week, than it run for 320h on my bench. This 14 watts are affordable, even inGermany.
Unfortunately my PSU is a little bit noisy, I need a better reference. I‘m heading the rabbit hole…. :-DD
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For a simple comparison of 2 meters a simple alkaline battery could be used as a short time stable and low noise voltage source. Put the battery in some padding to reduce external disturbance from temperature and mechanical effects.
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A final question to Tautech:
My device has a certificate of 2021-01-21 but warranty (from the siglent web) till 2024-05-03, why this difference?
It has the hardware revision 02-02-00-05-00
I assume that manufacturing date is short before date of certification ?
Siglent's EU warranty overrides factory warranty.
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/warranty-information/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/warranty-information/)
3. The warranty period starts from the date of the valid certificate of purchase (receipt or invoice). If the invoice cannot be offered, the starting date will adopt the manufacturer’s delivery date.
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For a simple comparison of 2 meters a simple alkaline battery could be used as a short time stable and low noise voltage source. Put the battery in some padding to reduce external disturbance from temperature and mechanical effects.
This is a good, quick, short term stable (few minutes) reference source for comparisons. We often use the cheap 9V type, the ones used in handheld meters and they usually produce ~10V :-+
Be sure and set all the meters to the high Z state, so they don't draw any current. Since 10Mohm at 10V is 1ua, and you have 3 meters for comparing, then 3ua!! This level of current will cause the battery voltage to creep down, so always use the high Z state. We also wrap the battery in a wash cloth to shield from any temperature variations (large in our lab bench).
Best,
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#4 why the DMM needs 3 watts when powered of? Is it keeping the reference heated???
That's a good question, would be nice to know if Siglent kept the reference powered ::)
Best,
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The same idea I got this night. I have now a 9V block in a thermal enclosure and I think I let the DMM run for another 2 weeks.
The temperature in my lab is always around 23...24 degrees, so no big changes.
Because the SDM is now on power for 8 days it has been running about 500h at the end of the 3 weeks..
Let's see what comes up.
Mawyatt: How is your SDM3065 doing after 2 weeks?
And can someone be so kind to explain how this measurement recording on an USB stick works? I tried it with a 10 mHz sinoid signal for 100 seconds (one wave) and got about 4000 values (with 100PLC).
The behavior is not clear to me :-// But why should it be simple when you can make it more difficult?
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The same idea I got this night. I have now a 9V block in a thermal enclosure and I think I let the DMM run for another 2 weeks.
Don't understand, what's the 9V block??
Mawyatt: How is your SDM3065 doing after 2 weeks?
It's been stable around 100~110uv high reading on a 10V source. It starts off at ~50uv high upon power up, rises to ~80uv high in a minute, then ~100uv high after 5 minutes, then ~110uv after 1/2 hr. It's been very consistent at 100~110uv high after initial warmup for the past week. I've been powering up in the morning and down in the evening since this is how the DMM will be used, so not left continuously powered on. The voltage references we use are powered on all the time though, one of the LM399 sources has over 10,000 hours. Theses references will be repackaged into a proper shielded enclosure with better output terminals when time permits, but likely not soon.
The readings provided are just for comparison between the two 34401As, the KS34465A DMMs, and the SDM3065, so no claim for absolute accuracy should be considered, only relative measurements.
Edit: All this begs the question has Siglent done something clever with the SDM3065? If they are powering the internal LM399 when the instrument is off but still has AC applied, then this could be a clever means to acquire "aging" on the LM399 while in the instrument. Without the fan howling, and the high power ASICs & display consuming, the other internal components aren't subjected to a thermal level when the instrument is "off", so not much different that being completely "off" for these "other" components. Sure this isn't as good as what KS does with the LM399/LTZ1000 pre-aging and premium selection, but IMO better than just completely shutting down all power when powered down. Maybe someone that's opened up the SDM3065 can comment, I haven't "yet" ???
Best,
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The readings provided are just for comparison between the two 34401As, the KS34465A DMMs, and the SDM3065, so no claim for absolute accuracy should be considered, only relative measurements.
Hmmm. How closely do the three HPAK models agree, how old are they and when/where were they last calibrated?
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9V block = a 9 Volts battery.
Let‘s hope that the 3 watts in power off are not bad design :-//
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The readings provided are just for comparison between the two 34401As, the KS34465A DMMs, and the SDM3065, so no claim for absolute accuracy should be considered, only relative measurements.
Hmmm. How closely do the three HPAK models agree, how old are they and when/where were they last calibrated?
One HP34401A is very old (thus HP nomenclature), the other is Agilent 34401A thus later. These were disassembled and repaired, then ad-hoc in-house calibrated to the newer KS34465A. So not attempt at absolute accuracy is claimed, just relative and drift comparisons. Likely we'll be getting another new KS34465A or KS34461A for our on-going project, when/if they become available.
One thing I was not happy about with the newly acquired SDM3065X was the cal date is listed as 2/2020, and per the recommended cal cycle was already over twice the recommended "storage time". Here's Siglent Calibration/Certification statement, shown in red, then see blue.
SIGLENT has determined that the factory calibration of this instrument is not significantly affected by storage of up to 180 days before first-time use. Cal Interval should start at the time the unit is placed in service or 180 days past the “Date of Calibration” on the certificate received with the unit.
So this states that when our "new" SDM3065X was placed into service in 8/2021, factory calibrated 2/2020, and it was already over 1 year out of calibration per Siglent's recommendations when we open the box :o
So we can't place much "faith" in absolute SDM3065A readings at this time since it's technically out of calibration, so only as a comparison with the KS34465A and the 34401As. We haven't raised a ruckus over this yet, since we've been totally consumed with many other "family" issues over the past few weeks :-[
Edit: Didn't answer your question. All three, the two 34401As and the KS34465A agree within +-10uv when using the 10V reference. Also agree very well elsewhere.
Best,
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Edit: Didn't answer your question. All three, the two 34401As and the KS34465A agree within +-10uv when using the 10V reference. Also agree very well elsewhere.
Well there is really only one calibration point there since the others were adjusted to the 34465A. What I look for is meters that haven't been calibrated in a long time and are not interrelated in any way. When those agree, I think that's probably even more reliable than most calibrations and you can get a better sense of how these things work long term.
I'm a bit surprised that Siglent would ship a meter that far after the cal date, but it probably won't matter as far as accuracy. If you needed the paper, OTOH, they would need to correct that issue--and it sounds like they would if you needed them to.
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Well there is really only one calibration point there since the others were adjusted to the 34465A. What I look for is meters that haven't been calibrated in a long time and are not interrelated in any way. When those agree, I think that's probably even more reliable than most calibrations and you can get a better sense of how these things work long term.
That's why we used the term relative rather than absolute, accuracy can only be inferred with the KS34465A, everything else is relative. If the SDM3065A had been within the calibration cycle, then it could be used as well. Also why getting another KS34465A or 34451A was mentioned.
I'm a bit surprised that Siglent would ship a meter that far after the cal date, but it probably won't matter as far as accuracy. If you needed the paper, OTOH, they would need to correct that issue--and it sounds like they would if you needed them to.
I was told by Saelig when we ordered that this was the last they had in stock, we had requested they ship the latest inventory. However, we did not realize the cal date until much later, when reviewing things that was caused by the other SDM3065A thread regarding drift, and thinking it should have been well within this year at worst!
Best,
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With the short supply it looks like they really go to the bottom of the inventory and include old ones that collected dust.
Chances are that in few months there is no more problem with units that have old cal - more like finding units calibrated just before shipment.
With so much initial drift, the initial calibration does not seem to very valuable anyway, unless you need the papers.
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...Don't understand, what's the 9V block??...
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My SDM3065 is now running for nearly 300 h. Source is as recommended a 9 volts (battery) block in a styropors box.
Today I fiddled with my HP 34401 to build a wifi-rs232 bridge because my always running server is too far away for
a rs232 cable.
I was very surprised to see that both meters now show exactly the same value - ongoing for hours.
See attached photo.
Yes, it‘s clear that this is a lucky coincidence but nice to see. :-+
I let it now run up to 500 hours. This should be enough.
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Some first measurements after keeping the SDM3065 running for now 480h.
But first a disclaimer to avoid unnecessary discussions:
- It's my hobby, 35 years ago I was involved in measurement topics at university but this is long, long ago
- a real measurement needs at least a 7.5 digit DMM fully calibrated, I can only compare relatively to my HP34401a (20y+ old)
- for some days I got the strong desire for appropriate Voltage references but reading thru the threads here convinced me that it needs
a lot of effort and funding to get something good enough for 6.5 digit DMMs and again access to a much better calibrated DMM
- all measurements were done with the help of HKJs great software TestController https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/)
- temperature was always 23...24 C in my lab.
- all readings done with Hi-Z (10Gohms) and 100 PLC
My observations:
First surprise: The readout of the SDM is 3 digits more than displayed see photo but the last 2 make no sense to me
May be software is still prepared for a upcoming SDM3085X :-// (joke)
In photo 2 you see the warming up of the HP34401a against the running SDM3065 for a 13h period. Voltage source is the 9 volts battery (block) in a double styropors box.
I was surprised how sensitive at this microVolts level the battery is for mechanical influence, sitting on my bench and do some soldering was enough for drifts.
In photo 3 the same data normalized for the first 2 hours. I've done some mathematical voodoo in Excel to keep the noise levels of both devices visible.
It took 2 hours for the HP34401a to warm up and as we will later see there is a little movement during the next hours.
Plz be aware that the readings are 7.5 digit from both devices but it's clear that the SDM is a little bit noisier.
Last picture shows the measured difference of the (HP-SDM) at 9.5 volts starting at 120 min till 720min.
It's obvious that there is another "settlement" of the HP during the next 3 hours.
As mentioned before the SDM is now for 20 days 30...40 Microvolts (0.03...0.04 mV) in the 20 V range lower than the HP (in 10 Volt range). There was no additional drift
during this "always on" period.
Looking into the specs of both devices and doing some rough calcs (assuming 10 volts reading):
SDM: In 20 V DV range the drift in 90 days can be 0.0030% of measured value + 0.004% of range = 1.1 mV
HP: In 10 V DV range the drift in 1y (there is no number for 25 years :-DD) can be 0.0050% of reading and 0.0030% of range = 0.85 mV
Assuming both devices are on the lower limit of this span the HP shows (for 9.5 volts) 9.499,15 volts and the SDM 9.498,9 volts. (250 uV difference)
The measured difference of about 30...40 uV is much better.
I'm pretty happy with this results but this is of course "amateurish", further measurement in other ranges and of linearity can be made.
But I have now enough confidence in the SDM and can use it for my projects and I'll avoid the "volt nuts" rabbit hole.
Next week I will do the measurement of the SDM's warming up against the running HP.
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Thank you very much for your tests, very interesting! :-+
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@ Bad_Driver,
Nice work, thanks for the effort. Your results are similar to our SDM3065X, it's quite stable and seems to have a lower time constant to a stable reading than our KS34465A, although shows more "noise" in the readings.
Do you know if the LM399 is kept powered on when the SDM3065X is in the OFF state but plugged in to the mains?
Best,
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Looking into the specs of both devices and doing some rough calcs (assuming 10 volts reading):
SDM: In 20 V DV range the drift in 90 days can be 0.0030% of measured value + 0.004% of range = 1.1 mV
HP: In 10 V DV range the drift in 1y (there is no number for 25 years :-DD) can be 0.0050% of reading and 0.0030% of range = 0.85 mV
Surely those specs are wrong? The 34401A 1-year spec @10V is .0035% + .0005% or 400uV/40ppm. I presume the Siglent is in the sam ballpark.
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Yes, you are right, I was in a wrong row. My mistake, See attached for all specs in DC. HP above, SDM below.
Recalc:
HP in 10 volts range @ 10 V value: max. (1y) error: 0.4 mV
Siglent in 20 volts range @ 10 V: max. (90d): 0.38 mV - both in the same ball park.
This night I rethought the noise observation. I can't claim so easy that the SDM is noisier.
I found out that the last transmitted (relevant) digit (#7) changes in 3 uV steps but from the HP in 1uV steps (in range 20 volts/10volts). You can clearly see this in the histogram of both (attached) and in the readings.
That means, that the SDM in the 20 volts (going up to 22 volts) range quantize about 7.3 Mio steps
and the HP about 10 Mio steps - do you think my assumption is right? Someone discovered what ADC is used in the SDM?
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Just did a quick test between some other work. These were Cs and Rs in fixtures made to directly plug into the 4 banana jacks on the DMMs. The Cs are just 2 wire. The Tonghui TH2830 was using the TH26011CS test fixture and not compatible with the fixtures for the DMMs, so it couldn't perform a proper 4 wire measurement.
Edit: Added a couple leaded resistor measurements where the TH2830 could use the proper 4 wire measurement.
Results were TH2830 KS34465A SDM3065X HP34401A AG34401A
9.94513 9.9544 9.9472 9.9361 9.9480
1.99780 2.0000 1.9970 1.9906 1.9958
The SDM3065X did quite well on the R and C measurements compared to the KS34465A, HP34401A, AG34401A and the new TH2830.
Best,
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Received my SDM3045X today and I like what I see. Just one thing I've noticed: the beeper is rather low on High, barely audible on Medium and totally inaudible on Low. Is this normal?
Ralf
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Here I go less from a software error or driving error, but rather therefrom this is due to the basic volume of your buzzer.
The series variance in these piezo buzzers (similar also whether such Buzzer "good" or distorted sound) to the base volume is relatively large.
Whether you have caught too quiet in misfortune, you can only try it quickly to replace it through another to the test.
PS.
Whereby it is somewhat unhappy with too quiet buzzer, Siglent has the smallest stage apparently actually made quieter than before.
Have just tried it at my 3055 (always i use only the middle level) and the lowest level is a whole piece of quieter than with the older versions of the firmware.
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Received my SDM3045X today and I like what I see. Just one thing I've noticed: the beeper is rather low on High, barely audible on Medium and totally inaudible on Low. Is this normal?
Ralf
Hi Ralf,
my SDM3045x is about 3/4 year old.
The beeper acts normally and is clearly audible on Low.
I did set mine to Midlle. High is to much for me, but may be beneficial in a loud enviroment.
Buzzers have often a protection sticker to cover the opening, which should be removed befor final assembly.
Maybe this has not be removed.
If the unit is under waranty, I would have it exchanged.
Chris
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Buzzers have often a protection sticker to cover the opening, which should be removed befor final assembly.
Maybe this has not be removed.
Might well be. Unfortunately there is a warranty sticker, so I can't simply open it and have a look.
BTW, I've done the opposite in a number of cases: Too loud buzzers which cannot be turned down via the unit's settings can be tamed by sticking one of those little self-adhesive rubber feet on their opening. Quite efficient and easily reversible.
I've had a DMU whose buzzer was so loud and shrill that our cats would flee from the room each time I was using it.
If the unit is under waranty, I would have it exchanged.
I'll call the dealer, tomorrow morning. So far, they've been very fast and friendly.
Ralf
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New Firmware available for the SDM3045X:
V5.01.01.07R1
With calibration option in the menu, but undocumented.
https://siglentna.com/download/22253/
Chris
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Hi,
any info an the calibration option in the new FW yet?
Chris
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I’m waiting for the ok for me to publish my video showing how to do it… hopefully Siglent officially release the procedure soon!
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Anyone tried the 1.01.01.25 for the SDM3055 already ? I am still running the 1.01.01.22R1 and was happy that the USB logging worked again, so I am a little scarred to update....
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Try the version.
It is not a problem because you can change by the SDM (so on my 3055 in any case many times)
but at any time cross and across any firmware version to each other.
PS.
I have not tested everything yet (in some things I do not remember) but it's "finally" a lot has become better with the currently new firmware.
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Unfortunately it took some weeks longer than expected to come back with my promised measurements of warming up SDM3065 against HP34401A.
After running the SDM3065X for more than 3 weeks (about 500 h as suggested) I run the "warming up" of the HP34401A against the SDM - results above.
Than I shut down the SDM for 24+ hour, kept the HP running and repeated the measurements with an "soft start" of the SDM.
Surprisingly fast the SDM came into specs, it took less half an hour (compared to 3 hours of th HP). So I assumed that the internal reference is always on power
as discussed before, what would explain the 4 watts which the SDM in "Power off" takes. So I repeated the same measurement next day after another 24 hours
"hard power off" - not plugged into power line. But the measured curve is nearly the same! There is no visible difference! May be during the last 25 years the
specs of the LM399 have changed?
Attached you find again the warming up of the HP against the SDM and than the 2 measurements of the SDM warming up (blue cold start, red warm start).
For your convenience now both diagrams calculated and visualized with the help of HKJs fine piece of software: TestController.
All measurements done with 100 PLC, 10 GOhms, SDm in 20V range, HP in 10V range. Temp about 23 degrees celsius in my lab.
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LM399 is not the reason for this warm-up drift.
LM399 will be fully up to specs in less than 10 seconds and pretty much perfect in 30 seconds
It is rest of meter reaching thermal equilibrium.
New meters have fan that speeds up the process by mixing air.
34401A is fan-less design.. It has to distribute temperature passively...
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That makes sense!
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LM399 is not the reason for this warm-up drift.
LM399 will be fully up to specs in less than 10 seconds and pretty much perfect in 30 seconds
It is rest of meter reaching thermal equilibrium.
New meters have fan that speeds up the process by mixing air.
34401A is fan-less design.. It has to distribute temperature passively...
MY HP34401a (with additional thermal isolation and thermal sensor built in) warms-up 3 hours too.
PS: actually it did 5.5hours in my experiments, but normally I wait 3h :)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/thermostating-the-hp-34401a-meter/msg2614842/#msg2614842 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/thermostating-the-hp-34401a-meter/msg2614842/#msg2614842)
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Just received my second SDM3045X because I found the continuity beeper to be very low in volume. The beeper in the replacement is just as low. Not exactly loud on high, quite low on MID and practically inaudible on low. Seems a bit odd to me, especially since there's effectively no difference between low and off.
Can someone confirm that this is the same on all of them?
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LM399 is not the reason for this warm-up drift.
LM399 will be fully up to specs in less than 10 seconds and pretty much perfect in 30 seconds
It is rest of meter reaching thermal equilibrium.
New meters have fan that speeds up the process by mixing air.
34401A is fan-less design.. It has to distribute temperature passively...
Agree, the two 34401As we have take longer to reach equilibrium at the expense of having no fan. The KS34465A takes longer than the SDM3065X to stabilize which is usually 30~45min, while the 3065A stabilizes in under 30 min.
If Siglent kept the LM399 powered during the soft OFF meter state, we could benefit from the LM399 long term aging quicker ::)
All the DMMs are so good it's hard to complain about much, however the lack of a fan in the 34401A is worth the startup stabilization "wait" IMO :-+
This begs the question, "what would happen if the SDM3065X fan were disabled" >:D
Best,
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This begs the question, "what would happen if the SDM3065X fan were disabled" >:D
Best,
Question has been posited few times, for several different DMM with fans..
I wouldn't recommend it, because they are not designed for stale air inside. In addition to reference, ADC and sensitive front end path, rest of the meter runs hot in comparison. Some parts (PSU for instance) might run too hot.
Also, without airflow, sensitive parts would develop larger and different thermal distribution patterns.
Few brave ones experimented and reported some improvements in low frequency noise and some shift in calibration.
Nobody did serious long term characterization of reliability, accelerated aging etc..
I spoke with some people from Keysight once, and info was that fan helps keep instrument more stable in wider temperature range and power on stabilization faster. Pretty much only downside is acoustic noise.
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We'll I'm not "brave enough" just yet. Makes sense that LF noise would improve without random airflow, and cal would be incorrect because critical components would be at different running temperatures.
Best,
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I have an SDM3045X purchased new two months ago.
Off is silent, Low is, well, low but clear, Mid is louder and is a comfortable setting for me, High is more or less the same volume as Mid but it is a higher pitch and is perceived as being somewhat more strident than Mid although as careful listening reveals Mid and High to be more or less the same actual volume.
I am satisfied with the dettings and happy to use mine on Mid.
Regards
Eloso
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I have an SDM3045X purchased new two months ago.
Off is silent, Low is, well, low but clear, Mid is louder and is a comfortable setting for me, High is more or less the same volume as Mid but it is a higher pitch and is perceived as being somewhat more strident than Mid although as careful listening reveals Mid and High to be more or less the same actual volume.
My 11 month old 3045x is very similar. High level is annoying, mid is perfect.
Beeper sound seems to come from the side panel vent holes, so if @Neper has those partially blocked with other devices, beeper sound might be more attenuated than with desktop installation.
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No, the DMM was standing free in the middle of my workbench when I checked this. Low here is simply inaudible. There's a very faint click when making or breaking contact but no tone.
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Hello,
maybe somebody has an explanation?
After warm up of my SDM3065X and short circuit on the input terminals the display shows 000.0027 (+-3) mVDC (Range Auto 200mV, 10PLC, Auto Zero On). If I switch Auto Zero to "Off" the reading is 000.0001 (+-2) mVDC. So the Auto Zero function does not help in real.
movie
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Maybe there's an inductively coupled AC signal present at the input terminals of the meter that may not cause a DC reading but affect the auto zero function? How did you short out the input? How long are the leads used?
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Yes, the bridge must be quite direct and short in three places behind the dot (no cable in between) and it must have good contact surfaces quality.
Is the AC filter function on or off ? What is changing by your filter on or off ?
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Thanks for your hints!
The short circuit bridge is about 3-4cm banana gold plated+high quality measuring stripe. In order to check the Filter influence I switched to ACV. The reading here is 000.0940 mVAC (+-30). The filtersetting has no influence.
The "REL" button of cause eliminates any offset and leaves only the noise.
Ok. on that low levels some noise or thermoelectric effects are expected but does my observation match with the experience of other users of the SDM3065X?
movie
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I see the same effect with my SDM3065X, using a massive 4-plug, golden plated short.
Autozero, 10 or 100 PLC, 10 Mohms or Hi-Z - no difference. About 0.0010 mV + noise
But my 34401A behaves the same way and shows a little bit more difference to zero.
Maybe the result of our electro smog environment?
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The Auto zero can only compensate the offset throung the internal switching path. From small temperature gradients on the PCB and at the terminals there can be a small residual offset from thermal EMF. There may be a calibration constant to compensate for most if it, but this may not be perfect and the temperature gradients can change. Some meters allow to do the zera adjustment independent from a full calibration.
AFAIK the SDM3068 uses an AZ OP at the input and an SD ADC chip. This gives the question on what the AZ mode on such a meter actually does. The AZ mode may only apply to parts of the front end and may not include the first amplifier. For the 34401 and most HP meter the AZ function is obvious : swtich the input to a short or low resistor and than subtract the zwero reading. With meters that have an AZ OP at the front (e.g. Keithley 2000, 2002) this no longer that obvious and some do the AZ swtiching only after a buffer at the input.
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Autozero is also interesting as it is actually calibrated as a seperate mode, so if you turn auto zero on/off you are actually switching to some different calibration constants.
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I have been working for the past few days to make some software for MacOS which can send SCPI commands and also control the SDM30x5 series of multimeters.
I still have a lot to do but I am able to control my SDM3065X with my Mac and get readings from it.
So far I have two windows, one for sending SCPI commands and viewing the responses, and one to actually control the SDM3065X, which can change modes etc.
Once I have the software polished enough I will share it, I should be able to compile the software to work on windows too.
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I have been working for the past few days to make some software for MacOS which can send SCPI commands and also control the SDM30x5 series of multimeters.
I still have a lot to do but I am able to control my SDM3065X with my Mac and get readings from it.
So far I have two windows, one for sending SCPI commands and viewing the responses, and one to actually control the SDM3065X, which can change modes etc.
Once I have the software polished enough I will share it, I should be able to compile the software to work on windows too.
You don't need to make any software to control the DMM from a MAC, TestController also works on MAC and Linux.
The command line in TC allows you to type SCPI commands directly to the device, put I believe most people uses the predefined commands.
TC get even more useful when you connect multiple devices to it, i.e. a PS and maybe a load and let it control voltage or current while logging the result.
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As I had spent many many hours attempting to find without any luck a MacOS software that actually works, is free, and has a GUI, I decided to make my own.
Do you have a URL for that software so I can at least look at it, the search I just did failed to turn up anything.
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As I had spent many many hours attempting to find without any luck a MacOS software that actually works, is free, and has a GUI, I decided to make my own.
Do you have a URL for that software so I can at least look at it, the search I just did failed to turn up anything.
On this forum: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/)
Main page with download link: https://lygte-info.dk/project/TestControllerIntro%20UK.html (https://lygte-info.dk/project/TestControllerIntro%20UK.html)
You will have to install Java before you can use it.
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Well it looks like I've been wasting my time for the past three days.... why did I never look at this !
I just tried it out and it seems to do what I want, has a popup display and all the direct controls the same way I did it... thanks for pointing the software out to me, it is pretty polished and already does way more than I had planned to build into mine.
I might still tinker around with mine just to finish it off and get it to where I wanted seeing as the one you suggested is based on Java... who knows how long that will be supported by operating systems.
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I just tried it out and it seems to do what I want, has a popup display and all the direct controls the same way I did it... thanks for pointing the software out to me, it is pretty polished and already does way more than I had planned to build into mine.
The software has been around for some time as can be seen from the forum thread and during that time it has seen many improvements. My main purpose for this software never was to control or log from a single DMM, but to control, log and chart a automatic test setup based on multiple devices from different brands.
One of the nice details is that anybody can add new SCPI (and many other) devices to it (I did not add the Siglent meters) fairly easy.
I might still tinker around with mine just to finish it off and get it to where I wanted seeing as the one you suggested is based on Java... who knows how long that will be supported by operating systems.
Java is one of the most used computer languages in the world and has a open source implementation (Open JDK). I believe it will last a long time.
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Test Controller is really a fine piece of software! As mentioned above I used it for the warming up test run
with the SDM3065X and my HP34401A. And it is very handy and easy to use.
And HKJ‘s software found a great community of contributors for new devices. I need more time for a deeper dive
into the script capabilities of it but it will be worth it!
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I need more time for a deeper dive into the script capabilities of it but it will be worth it!
You only need scripting for automatic testing and even some of that can be done from a popup (LogEvent & ParamSweeper).
For more simple stuff (Restoring TC & device configuration) TC can write its own script and you can modify them if you want.
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SDM3065x green power led breathing, while powered off,
to show standby mode i suppose ??
how to stop this ?
permanent marker ? or black paint ?
who do this unit need an led anyways ?
the display will tell you the unit it on.. if you dont see anything on the display it is off, duh..
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SDM3065x green power led breathing, while powered off,
to show standby mode i suppose ??
how to stop this ?
permanent marker ? or black paint ?
who do this unit need an led anyways ?
the display will tell you the unit it on.. if you dont see anything on the display it is off, duh..
The unit has a screen saver mode... so the LED is there in case the screen is turned off.
I have live with my 3065X for a few years now, honestly the LED doesn't bother me, it also pulses when the unit is sleeping too.
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I like this meter except for the relay switching at around 2V when the leads are picking up noise..
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Have Siglent released a calibration manual for the SDM3065X yet?
My unit have been collecting dust for some years now, I would like to adjust the meter ...
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I like this meter except for the relay switching at around 2V when the leads are picking up noise..
Here, it's still worse when the meter is left in resistance mode. Sometimes it rattles like a machine gun.
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I bought my SDM3065X from Telonic a fortnight ago. It was delivered the very next day (for once I'd not placed my order on a bank holiday Friday evening as is my usual purchasing habit of high value items :) ). I've been playing with it ever since, mainly to monitor voltages in a temperature stabilised Rb reference oscillator (Efratom LPR101) project I've been working on over the past 13 months since acquiring the LPR101.
I've tried running a few "sanity checks" with a well rested AA alkaline cell and a CR2032 with a 10M and 610K potential divider to test the 200mV range down into uV territory. Although neither of these "references" are temperature stable, they did at least permit me to check the behaviour of the least significant digit's 'dance routine'.
The AA cell test with its very slow variation of voltage allowed me to see a well behaved transition from one 10uV readout to the next, typical of any DMM that's faced with slow analogue variations and the task of assigning a digital representation of a messy analogue quantity. So far, so normal.
I didn't bother adding a 10Mohm in series to create a 2:1 divider with the 10Mohm impedance of the meter to get into the 1.5v range to examine the meter's behaviour on the 2v scale, electing instead to 'go for broke' and look at the 200mV scale with the CR2032 and voltage divider described above. Here, the result wasn't quite as smooth, hinting that the meter was right at its stability limits, very likely aggravated by microvolt scale thermo-electric effects (which appear to be the weakness of trying to measure sub 1 ohm resistors using only a 1mA test current regardless of whether it's a 2 or 4 wire measurement setup).
I was so intrigued by the difficulty in getting stable uV readings in the 200mV range, I decided to check how accurately and stable a reading I could get out of a 'Zero Volt Reference" (something we can all make up for a fraction of a penny's worth of solid copper wire). The result was a little disturbing compared to my previous experience with pretty well every hand held DMM I've ever owned, including the two 9999 counts Mestek DM91As I've been using of late, where such a zero volt reference would halt the random digital dance at a reading of exactly 0.00V or 000.0mV.
I was seeing a readout hovering close to either +2uV or - 2uV and anywhere in between and was beginning to think I had a faulty unit until I took a closer look at its specifications after remembering that I was looking at a resolution three orders of magnitude better than those Mesteks (0.1mV versus the 0.1uV of the SDM3065X). Interpreting the full scale accuracy figure given for the 200mV range, it would appear that the meter is actually (but only just!) within specification.
Despite this 'reassurance' by the specifications, I still find this digital dance with the final two digits a little disturbing, even if using auto zero can get this down to a single count either side of a zero voltage reading, so I am impelled to enquire whether anyone else has used a zero volt reference to quantify these meters' accuracy at the zero volt end of their 200mV scale. IOW. am I the only one to be plagued by this less than perfect representation of a zero volt reference? I suspect not but I'd appreciate some feedback from other SDM3065X owners as a sanity check of my own experience with my one and only 6.5 digit bench DMM.
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I must say I'm confused a bit because you mention Ohms measurement and voltage measurement....
If I understood correctly, you are saying that you connected copper short on the input and measured accuracy and stability zero on 200mV range.
And measurements were flickering + - 2 uV.
For these measurements I use proper Fluke Zero Ohm plug. It has low thermal mass design.
If you don't have one, try wrapping a cotton towel or something around input sockets to block air circulation. Cotton is good because no static..
Also look at using histogram function. It should plot distribution of results.
You didn't mention how fast was acquisition. Try 10NPLC and 100NPLC. 1NPLC and less won't suppress 50Hz noise and also faster sampling has separate noise and resolution specification.
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The test a zero volts is pretty common to see the meters own noise. With the high resolution meters it is quite normal to see a little movement in the last digit. I normal target is to have an RMS noise of 1/2 the last digit and thus some 3 steps of the last digit as peak to peak noise. Some meters even have twice as much (RMS noise = last digit).
For the higherst accuracy one normally has to use the auto zero mode - the non AZ mode with many meters has quite a lot more noise low frequency noise. The accuracy specs usually assume the AZ mode on.
0.1 µV is really not much - with normal cables it usually takes something like 1 minute for the thermal EMF from touching the plug to decay down to this range.
Coming from the time nut corner, one may use a similar way to represent the stability. Record the data for some time (e.g. 20 min) and than plot the Allan variance.
A divider with 10 M and 10 M is rather high impedance and thus adds extra noise. Chances are one would see the resistor noise of the 5 M divider impedance and maybe some current noise from the input amplifier.
An interesting test is to look at the input bias current: so does a 10 M resistor really read 0 V or are there a few tenth of a mV.
The other way to look at the input is using a 10 nF (or maybe 1 nF) low loss (e.g. PS or PP type) capacitor and watch how fast it charge or discharges (with the meter in high impedance mode and some shielding).
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Just did a very quick and crude comparison between the new (10/14/21) DMM6500, over year old KS34465A and couple months old SDM3065X. All DMMs were on over 30 minutes and short used was DIY 4 wire shunt based on 12AWG solid Cu wire. All DMMs were set to Auto Range, Auto Zero and 10NPLC. ~10 minutes allowed to stabilize, since don't have time for longer evaluation.
Temp 77F, RH 40% and no shielding from AC, me or anything else. So please consider this just a quick and dirty comparison, sorry just don't have the time for a more in-depth measurement session.
DMM6500 ~1.75uV with SD ~0.06uv
KS34465A ~ 0.98uv with SD ~0.12uv
SDM6500X ~1.8uv with SD ~0.15uv
Edit: Longer time >30 min to stabilize, from images below.
DMM6500 ~1.70uv with SD ~0.13uv
KS34465A ~0.64uv with SD ~0.18uv
SDM6500X ~2.1uv with SD ~0.22uv
Best,
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Rigol DM3068:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1303142;image)
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I must say I'm confused a bit because you mention Ohms measurement and voltage measurement....
If I understood correctly, you are saying that you connected copper short on the input and measured accuracy and stability zero on 200mV range.
And measurements were flickering + - 2 uV.
For these measurements I use proper Fluke Zero Ohm plug. It has low thermal mass design.
If you don't have one, try wrapping a cotton towel or something around input sockets to block air circulation. Cotton is good because no static..
Also look at using histogram function. It should plot distribution of results.
You didn't mention how fast was acquisition. Try 10NPLC and 100NPLC. 1NPLC and less won't suppress 50Hz noise and also faster sampling has separate noise and resolution specification.
Thank you for your swift response. The ohms measurement reference was just an instance of where fractional microvolt thermal emfs (Seebeck effect) become a significant confounding effect when trying to measure sub ohm resistance values with just a mere one milliamp of test current.
Initially, I did use the supplied test leads and croc clips to clip onto an inch long SWG 14 or 16 solid copper wire with the leads gently twisted together to minimise any temperature imbalance and inductive noise pickup but I got the same result (actually slightly better) using one of the cheap Mestek meter's test leads so I made up a short test loop with 5 cm of similar gauge stranded wire and a couple of ex-GPO banana plugs but this was slightly worse, possibly because I'd neglected to thoroughly clean the several decades' worth of atmospheric contamination they may have accumulated (they'd looked clean enough at first sight).
Reversing test leads and the short circuit loop did produce some shift in offset but not enough to definitively prove these were the sole source of such offsets. I concluded that if temperature gradients were responsible, it seemed more likely that the major contributor was in the meter itself. However, I'll try your suggested remedy to minimise the effect of air circulation the next time I can take a break from my current test (monitoring the output voltage of a μ7805 bolted down to the heat spreader bolted to the LPR101's baseplate which is temperature stabilised to within +/- 0.1 deg C by an attached fan cooled heatsink controlled by a nano MCU reading a thermistor/fixed resistor divider embedded in the heat spreader plate.
I tried the 100PLC setting but it was no more stable than the default 10PLC setting I normally use, just slower in spitting out readings. Using auto-zero helped reduce but not eliminate the offset suggesting that it was (essentially) eliminating the error within the meter but not that coming from my 'zero volt reference' so reducing random air currents around the terminals and the short circuiting link may well address this uncertainty.
The readings weren't flicking between +/2μV so much as slowly hovering around those points, varying by how hard the croc clips were biting into the copper wire or small twists of the banana plug shorting loop (and from any reversals of polarity I tried out). I was aware that the heat from my fingers when handling the croc clips to gain the lowest possible contact resistance would likely induce some thermoelectric disturbance so did allow what I thought would be ample time for thermal equilibrium to return. I suspect I'm simply underestimating the thermoelectric effect at this new to me nano volt level of measurement. :(
I have played briefly with the histogram and graphing options but the UI is terribly clumsy and unintuitive. Even the barograph settings are tricky to set up (although a useful aid to monitoring the slow voltage drift - ~100μV these past 48 hours, probably from both the μ7805 and the meter). I might have another look with those graphing tools later on but I'm mainly interested in whether this "within spec" offset from a perfect zero is typical or not.
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FYI I have observed jumps around the 0v reading due to calibration resolution imperfections, this may or may not be present on a factory calibration, I just know that I have observed it after playing around with calibration of my unit.
This occurs if the calibration source had a small DC offset or rounding error, the meter doesn’t know how to correct for the offset, and so basically jumps from what it’s -0v and +0v values are, so if the calibration source had a 5uV DC offset it would result in a 10uV step between-0v and +0v., this is because the meter has two linear calibrations done, one for the + range, and one for the -.
At the 0v point it is basically switching between two ranges, the + range and the - range. It isn’t a single range for -200mV to +200mV, it is a +0V to +200mV range and a -200mV to -0V range.
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FYI I have observed jumps around the 0v reading due to calibration resolution imperfections, this may or may not be present on a factory calibration, I just know that I have observed it after playing around with calibration of my unit.
This occurs if the calibration source had a small DC offset or rounding error, the meter doesn’t know how to correct for the offset, and so basically jumps from what it’s -0v and +0v values are, so if the calibration source had a 5uV DC offset it would result in a 10uV step between-0v and +0v., this is because the meter has two linear calibrations done, one for the + range, and one for the -.
At the 0v point it is basically switching between two ranges, the + range and the - range. It isn’t a single range for -200mV to +200mV, it is a +0V to +200mV range and a -200mV to -0V range.
That's an interesting insight which I'd been blithely unaware of. I'd witnessed a similar phenomena with those cheap Mestek 9999 counts DMMs which I'd simply assumed to be a binary to decimal rounding error in the zero to 0.2mV range, which afflicts both meters, when using the 1000mV scale.
However, since I'd never seen any such discontinuities when monitoring the EFC voltage in my homebrewed GPSDO against a +2000mV offset to allow me to use the 1000mV scale on a 2.3713 (+/-0.3mV) EFC voltage, this separate plus and minus voltage range function offers a much better explanation for my own observation of the 0.2mV gap in those close to zero volt readings with the Mestek meters.
Other than for a couple of 7 or 8 hour overnight breaks, I've kept the meter powered 24/7 over the past 13 days (it only consumes 13 watts - just 10 watts more than its standby consumption, some 9 watts less than the SDS1202X-E I've had running 24/7 for the past month or so during my Rb reference oscillator test regime, making it a more economic option than the SDS 2104X+ with its 54 watts consumption figure :) ).
I'm ageing in its reference (whatever that is - no one has yet published a YT teardown video to reveal what Siglent have actually used in this model so it remains a mystery yet to be revealed). Another 30 days should see it top the magic 1000 hour mark with hopefully the worst of its initial ageing drift behind it.
As with all things involving precision measurement, stability trumps absolute accuracy every time (you can always go back and recalibrate previous measurement datasets provided the stability of the originally inaccurate readings could be trusted to have stayed the same or at least followed a well understood and predictable drift curve).
I'd seemingly had no need for better absolute accuracy than those cheap Mestek DMMs were offering until I discovered that they actually did have a tempco that otherwise didn't show in the typically temperature stable environment of my workroom (23*C +/- 1*C). It was only when I was deliberately making wild excursions of room temperature to test the temperature stability of my temperature stabilised LPR101 that I finally realised I could do with a more temperature stable DMM and started checking out affordable 4 1/2 digit bench DMMs.
I had been tempted by Bangood's special offer on the Owon XDM1041 for only 95 quid (now a whopping £103.70) but was swiftly put off by Owno's... er, Owon's (Freudean slip?) total silence in regard to tempco specs hence my looking at the Siglent offerings, landing up pushing the boat out for the SDM3056X in preference to the slightly cheaper SDM3055X since it had the best tempco specs even if it was only offering a 'mere' fourfold increased resolution.
Voltage sources that I'd previously considered to be as good as lab standards (the Vref pin of my AE CQE branded OCXOs (ex-Symmetricom) for example) now look terribly unstable using the SDM3065 and I have to keep reminding myself of the 2 1/2 orders of magnitude increase in resolution that allows me to see what had been totally invisible to my best handheld DMMs (Mestek DM91As). It's a whole new world of microvolt resolution out there for me to explore and come to grips with. :)
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They use the LM399 reference :-)
Also, this is one of my older videos which shows the insides:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izrW2d-DCM0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izrW2d-DCM0)
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@TheDefpom
Thanks for that enlightenment. :) As for blowing multimeter fuses, I did a similar thing with one of my mesteks back in March (possibly the original DMM looking at the order date). I have a set of 9 x 5x20mm 630mA and a set of 10 5x20mm 10A ceramic fuses in my spares drawer now as a consequence.
My 'accident' wasn't quite so dramatic since it involved using the 1000mA scale and careless current adjustment of a 30v 10A bench supply which took out the 630mA fuse. I think I replaced it with a 500mA glass fuse initially to tide me over whilst I waited for delivery of the specified fuses I'd ordered from a UK based ebay seller. I didn't have long to wait, less than a week afaicr.
I could see the LM339A quite clearly in the opening still even if I couldn't read the part number until I paused the video at the most stable and clearest view (I had to use half speed to pick my moment though). Even with foreknowledge, I still struggled to interpret the number using a magnifying glass viewing it in full screen HD.
It seems to be located in a position that leaves it exposed to the flow of cooling air, testing its thermal shield to the limit. I suppose it must be a case of "Damned if you do and damned if you don't" when it comes to optimum placement. I guess that location must have been deemed the least susceptible to temperature extremes. I had hoped they may have used something like an LTZ1000A or better for this model.
Just for a 'laugh' (and to satisfy idle curiosity) I ordered an AD584L 4-Channel Voltage Reference Module from a Chinese ebay seller last week. I'm not expecting too much by way of absolute accuracy, especially if it's supplied with a printed out calibration slip. Hopefully, it will be a genuine 'L' version rather than a 'J' type disguised as an 'L' type. Whatever it is, I'll be recalibrating it using the SDM3065X. Provided it's reasonably stable, it might still prove to be worth the £9.34 I shelled out for it. :-DD
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The LM399 shell is quite effective. A little flow of air is not that bad. A little more thermal cover may be a good idea. For a meter of this class the LM399 is well good enough. The problem is more that the ADC chip can not directly work with a 7 V reference. So the reference is divided down to some 2.5 or 5 V for the ADC. The divider can contribute more to the dirft than the actual reference. The more natural refrence for those SD chips is a bandgap reference like the max6325 used in the SDM3055. However these often show more long term drift. Ideally would have hoped for a dual reference, like LM399 for the long term and a low noise bandgap for the normal ADC use. However this is likely too expensive for a meter in a price sensitive range.
The dual fuse form is a nice idea, if the fuses are choosen so that normally only the external acessible one blows. It still comes at the price of high burden for the higher currents.
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@TheDefpom
Just for a 'laugh' (and to satisfy idle curiosity) I ordered an AD584L 4-Channel Voltage Reference Module from a Chinese ebay seller last week. I'm not expecting too much by way of absolute accuracy, especially if it's supplied with a printed out calibration slip. Hopefully, it will be a genuine 'L' version rather than a 'J' type disguised as an 'L' type. Whatever it is, I'll be recalibrating it using the SDM3065X. Provided it's reasonably stable, it might still prove to be worth the £9.34 I shelled out for it. :-DD
Hi John, nice to have you here again with the Siglent fan boys :-DD
I got one oft this chinesium voltage references, the „certificate“ seems to be a simple copy and was three years old. And it was good enough for a 4.5 3.5 digit DMM but not for any more.
At the end I used the reference for one of my double oven TRIMBLE OCXO where because of aging the internal voltage reference was to low for the „sweet“ spot.
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The LM399 shell is quite effective. A little flow of air is not that bad. A little more thermal cover may be a good idea. For a meter of this class the LM399 is well good enough. The problem is more that the ADC chip can not directly work with a 7 V reference. So the reference is divided down to some 2.5 or 5 V for the ADC. The divider can contribute more to the dirft than the actual reference. The more natural refrence for those SD chips is a bandgap reference like the max6325 used in the SDM3055. However these often show more long term drift. Ideally would have hoped for a dual reference, like LM399 for the long term and a low noise bandgap for the normal ADC use. However this is likely too expensive for a meter in a price sensitive range.
The dual fuse form is a nice idea, if the fuses are choosen so that normally only the external acessible one blows. It still comes at the price of high burden for the higher currents.
MAX6325 should be buried zener type, same as AD586/587, LT1021 etc..
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Anyone got a list of outstanding firmware bugs on this series (the SDM3055 is my main interest)?
Haven't found one. Maybe it is already known, but this is what I found (latest firmware):
* when in dual, do not use autorange, as otherwise the values either come out way wrong, or it may simply hang the meter (a manual reboot is needed).
* when switching primary and secondary measurement (press "dual") it goes back to auto. Which may immediately hang the meter.
easiest way I found to reproduce this: just switch on the meter, set to DCV (auto), press dual, then DCI, the meter clicks and hangs.
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easiest way I found to reproduce this: just switch on the meter, set to DCV (auto), press dual, then DCI, the meter clicks and hangs.
mine does not hang up. It reads slower but that's all, Its in auto with sw 5.01.01.06
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That must be on a SDM3045X, on a previous fw. Sorry, don't have that meter.
I found that problem on a SDM3055 with 1.01.01.25. Extra info: It is more repeatable with leads plugged in, and after a fresh boot. Also: DCV + ACV has no problem.
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So that means it is a sw issue...
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easiest way I found to reproduce this: just switch on the meter, set to DCV (auto), press dual, then DCI, the meter clicks and hangs.
Confirmed on my SDM3045X (newest firmware).
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Still the rater odd volume settings of the continiuty beeper on the 3045.
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For what it's worth, my 3055 does not hang...slightly older SW.
SW: 1.01.01.22R1
HW: 03-00-00-13-00
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easiest way I found to reproduce this: just switch on the meter, set to DCV (auto), press dual, then DCI, the meter clicks and hangs.
Confirmed on my SDM3045X (newest firmware).
Yet one I have here is not afflicted however 3065X with latest FW is ! :-//
No 3055 stock to check.
Reporting this to the Siglent private forum.
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Hi,
I can confirm the hang-up of the SDM3065X with SW: V3.01.01.10 at DCV/Dual/DCI |O
regards
Calvin
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Would the need to measure DCV and dca at the same time be a real situation?
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It is sometimes convenient to measure voltage and current at the same time (e.g. power going into a regulator, or to measure the U/I curve for a part to test, like a zener diode). One could use 2 meters, but a single meters saves space and the handheld meters usually don't have a PC link. However there is a principle limit in the accuracy from a shared terminal. The reading may still be more accurate than the reading at the usual power supplies.
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Would the need to measure DCV and dca at the same time be a real situation?
From your question I read: "You are using the tools in the wrong way."
Short reply: It would be wrong indeed if I always need the utmost precision and control. And that is not the case.
Longer reply:
Apart from "is a bug that hangs a specific appliance/tool important" (in my opinion yes, any bug that requires manual intervention is a critical bug), yes, V+I measurement via a DMM is something that I at least frequently need.
One cannot always rely on a PSU or an SMU, plugging in a DMM is much more versatile.
And yes, of course, 2 separate DMMs, one for V and the other for I can be better: better logging, better control over settings, name it. But having it all on 1 screen, even with the limitations that go with it, is good enough in many situations. For me at least.
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easiest way I found to reproduce this: just switch on the meter, set to DCV (auto), press dual, then DCI, the meter clicks and hangs.
Same here: SDM3055 with 1.01.01.25
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🔴 TOP SECRET Siglent SDM3065X Multimeter Calibration Procedure - No.891
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amh0sAn-h-U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amh0sAn-h-U)
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Received a new SDM3055 a few days ago. Included leads sure have inconsistent contact when simply shorted together. Continuity beeper sounds like its trying to send morse code as the resistance measurement randomly flashes values all over the low end of the scale, eventually finally settling on a proper expected low value after a few seconds. Rub them together and they produce a really scratchy sounding continuity beeper...
Switched to using my Brymen BM786 Gold Plated leads and the SDM3055 works perfectly at first touch, instantly holding a proper low value.
[attachimg=1]
Left side where Samples(1-4) from the included leads, taking a few seconds to settle on each..
Right side were Samples (5-8) using the leads borrowed from my EEVBlog Brymen BM786 that instantly held the value.
I can't see anything wrong with the Siglent leads, they look normal and clean, and they probe as being in proper condition, but they're sure giving troubles getting a stable reading at low resistance values, even with manual range to lowest range, it still randomly flashes anything from overload to a proper value for a few seconds before finally settling on a proper reading. Behavior presists in the two lowest ranges, I guess its poor conductivity along with the very low test current this meter uses on the lowest range.
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Included leads sure have inconsistent contact when simply shorted together.
Clean the tips with alcohol. If you need another set of leads, look at ProbeMaster.
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Excellent webpage by Defpom for SDM User Cal CSV file creation:
http://www.thedefpom.com/siglent_sdm_calibration.php (http://www.thedefpom.com/siglent_sdm_calibration.php)
Carefully follow his instructions and use appropriate quality references to build your own SDM Cal files to compensate for accuracy drift as these bench meters references age.
Video above also linked on his webpage for guidance on how User Cal works.
Added to OP.
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For the calibration in the non AZ mode the measurement points should be not so far appart in time. For an instrument that may show some dirft I would measure more like 200 mV / 20 V / 200 mV and than average the 2 readings at the 200 mV point.
For the AZ mode this should not matter as much, but would still be the better way.
Having the low end test points at around 1% FS is a bit odd. The reason behind this may be a output cross over error of an amplifier stage, that may cause some INL error near zero. On the other hand one would still want an accurate 0 point.
The way with the extra CAL files as CVS files is nice as one naturally saves the calibration.
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The 0 crossover can be touchy on the 3065x, the 3055 and 3045x don’t have a 0v adjustment and are done at +- half scale instead (ie -100mV and +100mV), which does solve that problem.
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Hi All,
I have been continuing to tinker with my new Siglent SDM calibration file generator, I have added a few more features today.
The main change is the site will store the calibration data when you generate the files.
If you supply your units serial number (it is optional) then it is stored with the data which allows you to come back later on and retrieve the LAST calibration data that you generated, so if you need to just tweak something a little bit you can just reload your last data and change the bit that needed adjusting, rather than having to re-enter everything again (nobody wants to have to do that!).
To be clear, the ONLY reason I am storing the serial number is to allow this retrieval feature to exist, originally I was only going to use it to append to the file names in case multiple units are being calibrated.
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Latest video showing a bit more information about the calibration files and my calibration file generator, with extra details especially for the SDM3045X and SDM3055 versions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToS--TvLWDs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToS--TvLWDs)
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Hi all,
I have discovered a weird phenomena with my SDM3055X dated from March this year.
Software 3.01.01.07, hardware 02-02-00-05-00.
I'm measuring a variable DC supply with an output between 0-200V with the DMM.
I use a RIGOL DS2072A to look at the ripple of the supply, that's how I found out.
The DC supply is based on the Harrison/HP/Agilent method, so the "+" is actually the common ground, and the "-" is the varying negative going supply.
I'm connecting my DMM with the Red lead to the "+" of the supply, and the Black lead to the "-" of the supply.
Sounds complicated, but is maybe important. With this setup I'm measuring a positive voltage on the DMM.
With the DC supply off, I see pulses appearing on the DSO as soon as I switch on the DMM, so even before it finishes to boot.
It get's even stranger. When I now turn on the DC supply and adjust the output to 150V and higher, pulses appear on the DSO as well.
When I disconnect only the black lead from the DMM, everything is clean again, same when it is off.
Disconnecting only the red lead makes no difference.
Now for the grand finale...
When I reverse the two DMM leads to connect to the supply, and now measure a negative voltage, everything is clean.
The DSO and the DMM are connected to the same powerblock and so have the same earth ground.
The DC supply is grounded through the DSO probe connection. I have a 240VAC 50Hz mains.
[UPDATE] What I forgot to mention is that my DC supply has no capacitor on the output. This is important because just adding a 1uF film capacitor fixes the problem. This is why most of you problably won't see it when there is some capacitance involved.
I'm puzzled by this is. Luckily I found the cause because I already spend several hours trying to find the problem in the DC supply.
Has anybody seen this, can verify this or provide an explanation?
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+1 for the Bryman BL21S2-T4SC silicone test leads with gold plated tips.
First time my 3055 reacts as expected with ohm measurement and continuity check.
I tried polishing and alcohol with siglent and 'keysigth' steel tip test leads before - with some but not groundbreaking success.
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The Leads included with my SDM3055 have been a complete failure when testing any sensitive and low level signals. They look good, but perform unusually poorly, even with cleaning.
Perhaps it may have been a bad batch with the tip plating process, or something at the socket end.
My Brymen leads perform flawlessly on the SDM3055... Even a pair salvaged from an old cheap junk meter are giving me better results at the moment when used on the SDM3055.
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Does anyone know if custom Thermistor definitions can be added? I'm able to modify existing ones, but I'd like to add a new one. Did not find anything in the manual to suggest it's possible.
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Does anyone know if custom Thermistor definitions can be added? I'm able to modify existing ones, but I'd like to add a new one. Did not find anything in the manual to suggest it's possible.
Here's a little info on custom sensors:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/)
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Thanks. Sounds like SDM3055 users need to hope and wait for a firmware update?
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Thanks. Sounds like SDM3055 users need to hope and wait for a firmware update?
Which version are you on ?
Latest is V1.01.01.25
Sorry we don't have any in stock to check the 3055 state of play for custom sensors but the other models have it.
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Does anyone know if custom Thermistor definitions can be added? I'm able to modify existing ones, but I'd like to add a new one. Did not find anything in the manual to suggest it's possible.
One way to handle custom sensors is a PC program. TestController can handle a NTC easily and works with any of the supported DMMs.
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I'm on 1.01.01.20R2
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I'm on 1.01.01.20R2
:wtf: You need update !
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I don't disagree :) But it sounds like it won't add custom thermistor values.
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I don't disagree :) But it sounds like it won't add custom thermistor values.
Latest update is most important as it's supposed to fix boot freezes once and for all. It should also align the feature set to the other models.
As I said we don't have stock to check what custom sensor settings are available in 3055 but I would strongly recommend you do the update:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/21_08_06/SDM3055_1.01.01.25_EN.zip
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Ok, on the latest now :)
No change for thermistor. If you do see something in the coming months please ping this thread :) I'll try to keep an eye out as well.
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Ok, on the latest now :)
No change for thermistor. If you do see something in the coming months please ping this thread :) I'll try to keep an eye out as well.
Have a close look again at the other thread and this post. You should be able to define, modify and save a sensor and have it to recall.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/msg3757376/#msg3757376 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/msg3757376/#msg3757376)
Then success mentioned here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/msg3793610/#msg3793610 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/msg3793610/#msg3793610)
Yes I know that's a 3065X but the 3055 should be able to do that too. :-//
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https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/msg3793730/#msg3793730 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/msg3793730/#msg3793730) and subsequent post. Can confirm there is no custom sensor option in the menu on my 3055.
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https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/msg3793730/#msg3793730 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/msg3793730/#msg3793730) and subsequent post. Can confirm there is no custom sensor option in the menu on my 3055.
Great, thanks. Tomorrow Monday I'll go shaking trees to find out why 3055 don't have the custom sensor feature. :horse:
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@Dbldutch
I'm seeing weirdness about the LO terminal of my DMM as well. I have a Siglent 3065X-SC, still in the return window and I'm very disappointed with this finding.
I was not expecting the LO terminal to be grounded, let alone with a potential of 13.33V from the earth.
The 'HIGH' terminal also has a potential to the case.
This makes it impossible to use in a proper way in a working circuit which has signal generators and oscilloscope probing coupled.
I accidentally zapped an IC as well because of it. :(
Is this normal? What do other users measure? :-//
Other than this issue the meter seems ok. I measured another isolated supply, batteries, etc.
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A DC voltage between ground and the LO terminal is indeed unusual. 13 V with the usual 10 M input resistance for the 2 nd DMM would be some 1 µA of current. It is normal to see some current there, but this is normally a AC current from capacitive current. I don't know how well the Fluke DMM handles a large supper-imposed AC votlage in the DC ranges - the shown DC voltage may actully be an effect of the Fluke meter. It may be better to use the scope to measure the voltage. The interesting part would be more the AC part.
There could still be a weak point with the SDM3055 in a relatively with a large AC part.
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@Dbldutch
I'm seeing weirdness about the LO terminal of my DMM as well. I have a Siglent 3065X-SC, still in the return window and I'm very disappointed with this finding.
I was not expecting the LO terminal to be grounded, let alone with a potential of 13.33V from the earth.
The 'HIGH' terminal also has a potential to the case.
I think you are getting false readings from your Fluke, it may even be the fluke that is generating the voltages internally... I just tested my 3065X and got no voltage at all from either input jack and the meters ground, or the ground of any nearby oscilloscopes, I then tried to measure resistance in the same way, nothing, OL on my brymen 786, which means it is in excess of 60MOhm.
you could even be picking up EMI/RFI in the leads themselves which due to the lack of loading is generating a stray potential difference.
OR as you have the SC version, there could be some instrument connections on the scanner card causing stray voltages to be picked up.
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A DC voltage between ground and the LO terminal is indeed unusual. 13 V with the usual 10 M input resistance for the 2 nd DMM would be some 1 µA of current. It is normal to see some current there, but this is normally a AC current from capacitive current. I don't know how well the Fluke DMM handles a large supper-imposed AC votlage in the DC ranges - the shown DC voltage may actully be an effect of the Fluke meter. It may be better to use the scope to measure the voltage. The interesting part would be more the AC part.
There could still be a weak point with the SDM3055 in a relatively with a large AC part.
2V and under range is 10G.
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Thank you for the quick replies. It's really helpful.
I must have a faulty unit with something shorting to the case.
I'll reach out to the seller for a fix.
- I took out the Scanner Card for the following measures just to confirm there's nothing wrong with it
- If I use Siglent DMM 3065X to measure its shell with the high lead, it reads 13.3V.
- If I measure DCV with Fluke meter from LO to shell I get 13.3V
- I used my scope to measure and I also get 13.3V from shell to LO
- If I change to ACV and measure the LO to shell (USB and case) with Fluke I get 14.8V
- If I measure current with Fluke from shell to LO I get some 60-70 mA
- If I power on shell to LO is some 16V.
- If I measure ohms with FLuke from shell to LO it grows as if it's charging a capacitor.
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I'm seeing weirdness about the LO terminal of my DMM as well. I have a Siglent 3065X-SC, still in the return window and I'm very disappointed with this finding.
I was not expecting the LO terminal to be grounded, let alone with a potential of 13.33V from the earth.
The 'HIGH' terminal also has a potential to the case.
That looks like a problem to me. Look at the polarity in the second photo. What you appear to have is a low terminal that has about -20V potential with respect to ground, with an impedance of 5M or so. This gives you the ~13V in the first photo, and then in the second photo you are not measuring an ~8.9V potential at the high terminal, you are seeing that potential from the low terminal divided by both 10M inputs of the two meters.
So the next step would be to use the current range on the 87V to measure from low to ground. I'm assuming you'll see something on the order of 3-5uA. It could be more or less because I only guessed at the numbers and the leakage could be nonlinear.
I'll reach out to the seller for a fix.
If you are in the return window, don't hesitate, send it back for a new one.
Edit:
If I measure current with Fluke from shell to LO I get some 60-70 mA
Yikes! I was a bit off there, I guess. Do you get the same if you measure from the ground shell of the BNC on the unit above, like in your first photo?
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This reallly looks like a broken unit. For the current measured to ground one could check with the meter itself, but I woud not expect the fluke meter to be bad on this.
Getting some 13 V and quite some current looks like a linke to the raw supply some how, like a heat sink (e.g. the 5 V supply) touching the case or shield.
So this would be a unit to send back with a comment that it is very likely broken and not just send back for not wanting it.
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I checked my SDM3065, it shows only some Microvolts against ground.
Your device is broken and you should ask for replacement.
Nevertheless: Merry Christmas to all readers, followers and Siglent club members! :-+
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I just measured my 3065X with a Fluke DMM from the + lead to Earth, and I measure 5.3VAC @50Hz and from the - lead to Earth 7.1VAC @ 50Hz.
In the DC mode of the Fluke, I measure only a few mV.
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I have to come back to an early problem that was pointed out here some month ago.
I tried to get a fast reading of 4096 values with my SDM3065 (1 PLC, Auto-Zero, 2 VDC) for further FFT analysis.
With the help of TestController I can't achieve faster readings than 3/sec.
With reading to USB-stick I get up to 20 readings per second but the time deviation between the measurements is to big,
I used external trigger, with internal trigger it is much bader.
I assume fastest reading & storing will be with writing to internal memory, but there I get no time stamp (why???? Siglent!!!!)
Has anyone find the best settings for this kind of measurements?
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With the help of TestController I can't achieve faster readings than 3/sec.
TestController can handle up to about 100 readings/second, but because it reads one value at a time meters will usually not work that fast with it.
For fast reading you need to disable auto-zero, when enabled the meter will need to do a two readings for each reading you request.
It is also a good idea to select manual range.
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Hi HKJ,
thanks for your hints, but unfortunately it doesn't work for me. I tried all your advices but the limit is always about 6...7 readings per second.
The SDM is LAN-connected. I went down to 0.05 PLC, manual range 2VDC, no Auto-Zero but no chance to get faster readings.
B.D.
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thanks for your hints, but unfortunately it doesn't work for me. I tried all your advices but the limit is always about 6...7 readings per second.
The SDM is LAN-connected. I went down to 0.05 PLC, manual range 2VDC, no Auto-Zero but no chance to get faster readings.
I am not that surprised. On some meters you can do some sort of streaming captures, that may be a small program on the meter (New Keithley) or by capturing alternate buffers and then transmit them.
On some meters you can also decouple the capture and the reading of data (TC does that for some bench meters), this means you can get you table with stable timing, but the actual capture rate will not follow it.
On the keysight 34465/34470 TC can download the internal captured data and they can capture fairly fast (Keithley is faster, but TC cannot download data from them).
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HKJ, you got it! As described earlier, I can do data capturing on USB-stick or internal.
Unfortunately the internal capturing provides no time stamp (shame on you SIGLENT!).
The external USB capturing has a time stamp but I wasn‘t able to get constant readings, there
are big time deviations from reading to reading. But I need a constant acquisition frequency for
following FFT. I Have to play a little more with external triggering.
btw: I exported the table of measurements to EXCEL and did there the FFT. Is a FFT function in Text Controller in future something you are considering?
The results beside the lower acquisition frequency were much better than with the USB-stick recording.
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btw: I exported the table of measurements to EXCEL and did there the FFT. Is a FFT function in Text Controller in future something you are considering?
It might very well be, maybe a popup window (or maybe in gridpanel) and a way to export both graphical representation and a table.
Note: It will not be spectrum analyzer grade readout, but a much more simple readout.
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two SDM 3055 side by side
ultra clean and stable 5V input
been like this for 7hrs straight
both brand new
Resolution, and Accuracy is not the same thing :-) no surprise
if I get access to another instrument, with 10 times the resolution and 10 times the accuracy
is there an easy way to tweek the numbers, so they read the correct value ?
or do i need special equipment, and special procedures to perform calibrations ?
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Is there an easy way to tweak the numbers?
No, but here is all the info you'll need for your tweakery.
http://www.thedefpom.com/siglent_sdm_calibration.php (http://www.thedefpom.com/siglent_sdm_calibration.php)
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Resolution, and Accuracy is not the same thing :-) no surprise
if I get access to another instrument, with 10 times the resolution and 10 times the accuracy
is there an easy way to tweek the numbers, so they read the correct value ?
or do i need special equipment, and special procedures to perform calibrations ?
The specified tolerance for that instrument at 5 volts would be 16 counts. Your two examples disagree by 4 counts. Attempting to 'tweak' them is likely going to cause other issues--they'll disagree at different voltages (or temperatures)
or worse. I doubt very much that you can improve on their operation with ad hoc methods. Even official calibration by a certified laboratory may not improve things very much. In any case, even if you want to attempt to improve them and can round up the equipment, you probably want to age them for a year or so first otherwise their initial drift may undo your tweaking calibration efforts.
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Everyone wants to see such nice coincidence (photo) but this was only a lucky shot of me.
After a 500 h „burn in“ of the SDM3065 it settled down at 30…40 Microvolts at 9.5 V beside my HP34401A.
And this is full in specs.
It‘s astonishing how good my old HP still is and also how good the SDM is (beside the other weaknesses).
I‘m pretty sure that the HP will do it another 20y, and we will see how the SDM will behave.
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two SDM 3055 side by side
ultra clean and stable 5V input
been like this for 7hrs straight
both brand new
Resolution, and Accuracy is not the same thing :-) no surprise
if I get access to another instrument, with 10 times the resolution and 10 times the accuracy
is there an easy way to tweek the numbers, so they read the correct value ?
or do i need special equipment, and special procedures to perform calibrations ?
That is about 80 ppm of difference. If you hypothesize one might be 40 ppm high and one 40 ppm low, they would still be in spec even for some 6.5 digit meters..
I wouldn't touch them. Also, like Bdunham7 nicely said, it would be prudent to wait for a year or two for them to settle.
And for end, a brain teaser: unplug them both and exchange their places: one from the top put on the bottom and vice versa.
Check again the voltages.. Are they the same? >:D
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It‘s astonishing how good my old HP still is and also how good the SDM is (beside the other weaknesses).
I‘m pretty sure that the HP will do it another 20y, and we will see how the SDM will behave.
I'm always impressed with how well the 34401A works. If I need a correct 'answer' this is the go-to DMM. The K 181 is also quite good, but a bit more noisy.
I also have an SDM3055, but after 2 years of ownership...it's rarely used as I don't feel it produces quality results and I have to endure the fan noise...
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Wow you got two 34401a!
My was about 300 Euro some years ago. Now prices are much to high (unbelievable). If there has been another
favorable 34401a around, I had taken it and not the 3065.
But to be honest, beside the problems with the triggering and the slow read out/recording I like the SDM, the display is great, it is easy to use and it is warmed up much faster than the 34401a (15 min compared to 2…3h).
That is a benefit of the fan. But for 2 bucks more Siglent could choose more silent fan for their products.
I need only someone who explains to me how to get fast(er) readings with constant acquisition frequency out of it.
The data sheet claims 50 readings per second at 1 PLC, but I found no way to the get this readings „recorded“. Best case it is always about 5…7 readings with high time deviation from on reading to the other. I have to check this with the 34401a.
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about the calibrations, I did look at this site
https://www.thedefpom.com/siglent_sdm_calibration.php (https://www.thedefpom.com/siglent_sdm_calibration.php)
thanks a lot for the link, he is doing the same, adding a user cal, you can select to use or not,
I called my work, got ok to pick up our brand new calibrated 34465A and the two siglent are now passed 24hrs
the keyside is on 3 hrs, plan is to let them all run, for a few days to see what happens, i take date spamped pictures a few times pr day..
I also got a friend with a HP3458A he said i could just pop in and pick it up, in case i like to try play with some more digits.
anyways the defpom site contain good explain videos about the calibration, and how to use, and select the factory or the user cal,
so i figured i try play with this, at least just for fun, just this one range, just to see if I can make them all read the same,
i might learn a few things along the way, or at least had some fun playing with my stuff.
anyways : i dont have any luck with this, my SDM3055 just say bad file name, to the CVS file from that site,
so how to fix this ? any one tried his csv files, on a 3055 model ?
by the way : thanks for the info about specifications, and expected error, i was aware of this
like the defpom he also up perform his unit, quite a lot with this type of user calibration
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Just did a quick check with our 2 custom references (blue cases) based upon LM399 (2) and LTZ1000, these references have well over a year 24/7 operation. DMMs have been ON for ~1/2 hr, and get similar relative readings with 10V output derived from both LM399s and LTZ1000, also get similar results when reading LM399 and LTZ1000 reference voltages. Get good results with scaled 1V and 0.1V from LM399.
On the 10V reference the SDM3065 reads consistently ~110uv high, on 1V is reads ~11uv high and on 0.1V scale ~3.3uv low. Reading the reference voltage the SDM3065 reads ~50uv high.
Here's some images showing the readings. The far left is a AG34401A, the far right is a HP34401A, the KS34465A, SDM3065X and DMM6500 are in middle.
Best,
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And 3 more measurements.
Best,
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about the calibrations, I did look at this site
https://www.thedefpom.com/siglent_sdm_calibration.php (https://www.thedefpom.com/siglent_sdm_calibration.php)
thanks a lot for the link, he is doing the same, adding a user cal, you can select to use or not,
I called my work, got ok to pick up our brand new calibrated 34465A and the two siglent are now passed 24hrs
the keyside is on 3 hrs, plan is to let them all run, for a few days to see what happens, i take date spamped pictures a few times pr day..
I also got a friend with a HP3458A he said i could just pop in and pick it up, in case i like to try play with some more digits.
anyways the defpom site contain good explain videos about the calibration, and how to use, and select the factory or the user cal,
so i figured i try play with this, at least just for fun, just this one range, just to see if I can make them all read the same,
i might learn a few things along the way, or at least had some fun playing with my stuff.
anyways : i dont have any luck with this, my SDM3055 just say bad file name, to the CVS file from that site,
so how to fix this ? any one tried his csv files, on a 3055 model ?
by the way : thanks for the info about specifications, and expected error, i was aware of this
like the defpom he also up perform his unit, quite a lot with this type of user calibration
As I don't have the means to test on anything other than a 3065X the sites output files haven't been tested by me on other models, there could well be differences in how it handles the files.
The output files are named by the site for convenience, it could be that the firmware in the 3055 is handling this differently and expects exactly the right file names (my SDM3065X didn't care about the file name), so try renaming the file to "dc_voltage_recal.csv" and see if that helps, if it works (or not) let me know and I will adjust the site to suit.
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@oz2cpu
If we need to Defpom can borrow a SDM3055 when our new stock arrives soon to check his Cal output files are correct.
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YES YES.. it finally worked.. it is VERY hard to make it work,
and the SDM3055 dont tell exactly what it does, it looks a little bit different,
at least it was able to read the file now, when renamed dc_voltage_recalA.csv when it is inside a folder of what ever name
there is a "thing" to do right, that is not clearly explained for beginners,
when i understand exactly what is the trick, i try explain it a bit more in detail here, ok ?
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ok here you go, see the two attached pictures, top left is the unit i play with
Manage File - Action much be RECALIBRATE !!
Browse - External Lower Dir - Find file
Select - Perform Recalibrate - YES - it will as if you like to use it, YES
DONE, back to voltmeter screen..
so now it reads correctly at 5V 10V 20V happy me.. but now.. it is wrong at zero input.. darn it,
the zero is not included in this file, it is something else ?
or will it be fixed when i do the negative part ?
i compleetly skipped the neg
UPDATE: zero, is simply the final result, of whatever you calibrate positive, and negative with, that means if both those
end points are done correctly, the zero, will be zero :-)
LOVE you all, stay cool..
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I checked the sites logs and could see that you only set a 5V cal point, that is too low, you need to set it higher than that, if you look at the recommended cal points on the site it says where the best points are to cal.
Yes you should definitely do both the positive and negative at the same time otherwise it will offset the entire range, make sure you set it back to factory cal before taking the measurements and doing the recalibration again.
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I will modify the site now to fix the file name issue you had so you shouldn't need to mess with it again.
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thanks a lot, fantastic site, and a great help
YES you are correct, do pos and neg cal right after each other, i did them a few times, by swapping banana blugs, and wrote down the best avarage I could find,
and bingo rock strady and correct readyout, my problem was only the 20 V range
all other ranges, all 3 meters track to the last digit,
while i can borrow the HP 34465A i go thu all other features the next days,
I leave them all on, no power downs.
during all this : i found a bug in the keysight, funny !! if you own one, try the DCV ratio, on and off, and see if the result go back ?? first time after power on ??
omg that sw dude must be the mongul of the year award :-)
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I think the file name issue could of been the length more than anything, I am not sure what the limitation is on file name length on the system the meters use, maybe it was just too long, or maybe it didn't like the "-" of the reference you used instead of the serial number?
Anyway as I don't want people to struggle with this in future I have set the site to use the default file names as used by Siglent, maybe they will enforce the proper file names in the firmware in the future, who knows, so I will play it safe and just use their naming system, it just means the meter model and serial number won't be part of the file name anymore.
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just tell me, if you like me to perform any type of file check experiments, i will be super happy to help out
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Mr. Defpom... may you live for a thousand years.
I just had a pop at adjustment, forgot something and re did it.
I now have my 3055 pretty much identical to my 2015 for the first time in a few years.
Many thanks and Happy New Year.
Peter
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just tell me, if you like me to perform any type of file check experiments, i will be super happy to help out
if you could try using that default file name with _YOURSERIALNUMBER added to it IE: dc_voltage_recal_SDM30FAX2R1234.csv and seeing if it will accept that, if it does then it is probably safe to add that back in on the site.
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BTW... What I like about this method is that you don't need pricey calibration equipment, only a meter you can trust and a stable power supply.
In my case a Keithley 2015 that hasn't been calibrated in 20 years and a DP832.
The higher ranges are out of reach, but just fire in what you read on your trusted gizmo as "actual calibrator value" and you're golden.
Have to slip back to the factory cal for the higher stuff, but that's what buttons are for.
purp
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I‘m keen to see how your fresh recalibrated SDMs will behave during the next year!
To check my 3065 it would need access to a 7.5 digit DMM or a Fluke callibrator, no chance for me these days.
But I can look for a third 6.5 DMM and than start to wonder which one shows the right numbers |O
The rabbit hole is in front of me…..
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The rabbit hole is in front of me…..
You've already slipped in.
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The rabbit hole is in front of me…..
You've already slipped in.
That's really the truth of it. :palm:
When you've invested some £700+ in a 6.5 digit bench meter simply to overcome the tempco issue of a couple of cheap 9999 counts Mestek DM91As you'd previously thought of as being very stable considering the 41 quid total invested, the best you can say is that you're now clinging onto the edge of that particular rabbit hole by your fingernails. :(
I've had my 3065X permanently powered up ever since I took delivery of it a week into October and similarly the cheap AD584 voltage reference I'd bought about ten days later.
The 3065X seems to suffer very little tempco since it tracked the slow downward decline of a μ7805 mounted on a temperature controlled baseplate (Rubidium oscillator reference project) without any indication of a tempco. The AD548, otoh, has only been consistent in that it's variation with temperature very closely tracks room temperature with no sign of any ageing related drift (at least over the last month of its 10 weeks run time to date).
As has been previously mentioned, absolute accuracy is less important than consistency in the face of ambient temperature variations and ageing effects, particularly true with self contained hobbyist projects. Absolute accuracy is a bonus as far as hobby activities are concerned and only becomes important when comparing results between different lab setups in the wider world.
The Chinese seller I'd bought the AD548 from was honest enough not to insult my intelligence by making any attempt at supplying a voltage calibration chart of any sort, not even the more likely accurate hand written type which I'd have still ignored anyway.
At best, it could only be as good as the calibration of the 7 1/2 digit DMM used and the care taken to create such a chart - too many unknowns to invest much faith in afaiac. Far safer simply to assume that Siglent had been able to calibrate the 3065X to within its stated specifications and allow for the tolerances built into its specified calibration accuracy.
After monitoring that very lightly loaded (20mA) temperature stabilised (36*C) μ7805 for nearly two months, I'm quite confident that the 3065X is well within its stated tempco specification. With just over 2000 hours run time clocked up (and some 1800 hours for the AD548), the worst of whatever ageing drift it had is now well and truly behind it.
Absolute accuracy in a home lab is always going to have a question mark hanging over it but the stability seems to be as good as I could possibly have hoped for out of my SDM3065X investment. Stability trumps absolute accuracy every time simply because without it, trying to recalibrate to within a tight tolerance of absolute accuracy will be a waste of both time and money.
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Working with my SDM3055 today, Curious how the Trend Chart will show more details than what it will display numerically. While showing 0v on the display, it continues to chart at a resolution far beyond 5.5 digits.
Well, given it's voltage reference, I'm likely looking at nonsense, but it remains curious how the ADC can resolve and chart it out anyway. Not Accurate or of any value, but curious that the ADC's resolution is willing to chart out nanovolts and picovolts onto the Trend chart when the input is close to 0V as possible.
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Maybe they should add a threshold level of somekind, to get rid of the noise floor ?? if its what the meter seems to measure ?
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The SDM3055 (and it looks like also the 3045) use an AD7190 ADC, that is capable of 24 bit resolution. So the numerical resolution of the ADC would be good for 7 digits. With the SD ADCs the numerical resolution is the least important limit. The limiting factgors are more the linearity and the noise (here the AD7190 is quite good and well in the 6 digit range). The reference and linearity limit the usefull resoluion to some 5 to 6 digits.
Like many other modern meters the internal resolution is higher than what is displayed on the screen. Via the computer interfacer I would also expect to get those extra digits. They may still be helpfull, especially near zero, where the reference is not that relevant.
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here you go DEFPOM
renamed my test file to dc_voltage_recal_SDM30FAX2R1234.csv
and tried it on a fresh SDM3055, BINGO accepted :-)
so i must have done something wrong,
you know the feeling ? all is easy, when you know what to do :-)
Anyways : is this also the feature request thread ? will it be monitored by Siglent ??
Problem : SDM3055 trend chart, time only works in sec, and 3600 sec is the max,
Feature suggest :
let the user select Sec, Min, Hrs with each values up to 3600
thanks in advance !!
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if you own one of the many supported multimeters, you will find the free java program
"Test Controller" very usefull.
it is explained more deeply in this thread : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/)
so no need to repeat it all again here, just go there and read about it..
attached screenshoot, i work with temperature controlled voltage referance experiments right now,
so the live, long time logging, own defined average filters and such, is VERY usefull for me.
note the SDM3055 i use, is only 5½ digits, but it send out all 7½ digits,
the last two looks like random, due to they did not low pass filter it..
but with this program i can add all the average i like, and actually get a few more digits stable.
see also the attached curve, this is filtered 7½ digits, 1 div = 1uV
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SIZE problems ?? manual not updated ?
pictures and measurement not correct ?
please see the attached pictures.
i dont have the 3065 anymore, but when i had one, (a loaner) i recall it was way deeper, than my 3055..
and it had exactly the same type of plastic corners.
my 3055 is 295mm from the end of the back foot, to the front plastic corner,
also my plastic rubber corners, are much bigger, than pictured.
the datasheet say 282mm
the 3065 is 293mm arcording to the datasheet, however it is very unclear from where is this is measured, see the picture,
i recall the 3065 dont fitt my table, and it also came in a bigger box.
so my question is : how deep is a new version of the SDM3065X with new type rubber back and front all included ?
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so my question is : how deep is a new version of the SDM3065X with new type rubber back and front all included ?
SDM3065X has always sported the rubber bumpers.
From datasheet:
(length×width×height ): 345.45mm×260.29mm×107.21mm
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDM3065X_DataSheet_EN02G.pdf (https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDM3065X_DataSheet_EN02G.pdf)
Info on 3055 and 3045X here:
https://siglentna.com/download/18278/ (https://siglentna.com/download/18278/)
Pic showing all 3 of which 3055 is an early version before the bumpers were upgraded to match the other models.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1194407/#msg1194407 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1194407/#msg1194407)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=310969)
Also see comments in this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1023105/#msg1023105 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1023105/#msg1023105)
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thanks alot, this extra length is exactly as i remembered it,
this means the datasheet batronix link to, and uses for their SDM3065X is wrong :-)
the reason why i put this up, is one voltmeter is no enough for my experiments, so i am in the marked for one more,
and why not pick the other one, to be a lot better than the SDM3055 i allready got :-)
the timing issues reported on the SDM3065X is only relevant for people wanting to perform FFT or such timing demanding measurements,
it is as far as we hear only a sw thing, so i dont think i need to worry to much about it,
where i am now, i push my 3055 way beyond its specifications, and only this way i see minor drift on its own ref,
the 3065 got better ref, LM399 more stable, so i think it will solve the challenge i have for my experiments.
but it is too deep to fit my lab table .. oh them problems..
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but it is too deep to fit my lab table .. oh them problems..
Comments in this post and some following may be of help to you:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdl1000xsdl1000x-e-electronic-load/msg2511993/#msg2511993 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdl1000xsdl1000x-e-electronic-load/msg2511993/#msg2511993)
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The SDM3068 uses a LM399 ref., but for the ADC chip the voltage needs to be divided down. At least for the short time scale the divider drift may be similar to the reference dirft. So it is no for sure that the temperature drift of the 3065 is actually much better than the 3055.
For the long term dirft and possible humidity (e.g. seasonal) effects the metal can reference can be a plus. I don't know if the SMD3068 does an internal direct check of the 7 V refrence.
A large step up for the 3068 is having high impedance also for the 20 V range and not just the 2 V range.
It has a few nice features, but may not be the best choice if ultimate scale factor stability is needed.
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Do we know what ADC is used in the SDM3065X?
The same as in the lower range DMMs?
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Do we know what ADC is used in the SDM3065X?
dave only did teardown of SDM3055 ?
https://youtu.be/6nqSFYVKnP4
The DefPom about SDM3065
https://youtu.be/k6HE8qV3CA4
did Siglent address the issues he mention in this video ? firmware updates ?
this video is from 2017, it is really good, but it dont reveal any inside hardware details
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There are pictures around of the SDM3068 interals. They show and AD7175 ADC, so a really good one. That is low noise and low INL for an SD ADC chip, especially if they don't use the internal buffers.
The SDM3045 and 3055 use a lower grade AD7190 , still quite good for 5.5 digits and way overkill for 4.5 digits.
A point that is somewhat limiting for the SDM3055 is that they have the 2 V range as the prime range and the 20 V already seem to go though the input divider and thus 10 M input impedance only and extra noise and drift from the divider.
The 3068 has the 20 V range without the 10 M divider and only an extra, lower resistance divider after an initial buffer.
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Do we know what ADC is used in the SDM3065X?
dave only did teardown of SDM3055 ?
https://youtu.be/6nqSFYVKnP4
The DefPom about SDM3065
https://youtu.be/k6HE8qV3CA4
did Siglent address the issues he mention in this video ? firmware updates ?
this video is from 2017, it is really good, but it dont reveal any inside hardware details
See them here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=24
Link to SDM3065X PCB pics is in the OP POI list.
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Hi Tautech,
I used my VPN to connect direct to Shenzen for the international Siglent web page but what and where is „OP POI“???
I could not find any pictures.
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OP = opening post for this thread.
POI = Points of interest list that contains link to post with pics. ;)
China website:
https://www.siglent.com/?l=1 (https://www.siglent.com/?l=1)
This is accessible from the link in EU and US websites but in some browsers it defaults to the English version:
https://int.siglent.com/ (https://int.siglent.com/)
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Thanks, I got it!
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OZ2CPU found some strange looking noise with the Siglent SPD3033X power supply during his investigations.
We tried to analyze it a little bit more. For this we both made some recordings with the SDM3055X (oz2cpu) and I (SDM3065X) for further FFT with EXCEL.
You find the results in the SPD3033X thread.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/how-to-calibrate-siglent-spd1000x-spd3303x-spd3303x-e-series-power-supplies/msg3923762/#msg3923762 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/how-to-calibrate-siglent-spd1000x-spd3303x-spd3303x-e-series-power-supplies/msg3923762/#msg3923762)
During this tests I discovered some strange behavior of the SDM3065X (the SDM3055X seems to be better) which I want to point out.
Problem:
If you record continuous measurements to USB with SDM3065X, the time interval between measurements is not constant, there are big deviations.
I tried several series with different USB-drives and different settings. As you can see in the attached photos, we find a distribution pattern. (y-axis: time interval between single measurements in seconds)
But for low frequency FFT we need a nearly constant interval or with other words a constant acquisition frequency.
Surprisingly the SDM3065X behaves during very fast recording (0.05 PLC, acquisition frequency up to 1 kHz) best.
It's not a problem of the USB transfer speed, one data set is 32 byte, at 1 kHz acquisition frequency we need only 32 kByte/s.
The problem with the not constant triggering was pointed out here long ago.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3466342/#msg3466342 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3466342/#msg3466342)
I tried external triggering as well but found no improvement.
Attached you find the distribution pattern of different recording (4096 measurements - limit for Excel FFT) of the 3055X and the 3065X.
btw: in one of the first Siglent Operating Tips from March 2018 it was shown that there is no time stamp with recordings to the internal storage
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sample-and-store-sdm3000/ (https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sample-and-store-sdm3000/)
Now we have 2022! Siglent - why?
My wish/expectations to Siglent for the next firmware update:
#1 time stamp for internal recordings
#2 (nearly) constant acquisition/internal triggering frequencies, as with the 3055X, in best case controlled by user
As mentioned this would enable some interesting possibilities (low frequency noise measurements etc.)
Thanks to oz2cpu for his support.
Tautech, I will be very grateful if you can direct this to someone who is in charge of this product. Thanks.
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If the meter has no time stamping, how are the times measured ?
In a different thread they used an external triangle / ramp signal to see the times when the input is actually read.
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If the meter has no time stamping, how are the times measured ?
PLC
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USB recording has time stamp, internal recording not.
Sounds strange, but it works so..
I tested the time stamping with a low frequent square wave, it seems to be ok.
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while we are at it, suggestion great and usefull features,
for SDM3055: add user setting of variable power line avarage, not just fast, med, slow as it is today,
but 1-1000 mains setable periodes. this will make it possible to get a lot better and more stable readings,
now we do this in external data recording software, but when comparing readings with different equipment, like keysight, raw data looks very different,
due to different filter settings..
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while we are at it, suggestion great and usefull features,
for SDM3055: add user setting of variable power line avarage, not just fast, med, slow as it is today,
but 1-1000 mains setable periodes. this will make it possible to get a lot better and more stable readings,
now we do this in external data recording software, but when comparing readings with different equipment, like keysight, raw data looks very different,
due to different filter settings..
While being old, 34401A is a 6.5 digit meter running on completely different principle. It uses discrete converter that has full control of measurement cycles and full freedom to synchronize it to either mains frequency (for 50/60Hz rejection), to exact timing and level triggering. It performs true integration for a period specified.
SDM3055 is a 5.5 digit meter that uses off the shelf ADC (AD7190 I believe). With that option, you need to work the way ADC wants. It has internal filtering and averaging, mains interference rejection etc. built in.
It will have sweet spots in data rates where it will have best performance. For emulating longer "integration" times, you basically take 10 or 20 shorter acquisition and average them etc. etc. ....
Keysight 34450A (their 5.5 digit meter) also have only fast, medium and slow mode...
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we dont know exactly how the cpu reads the ADC ?
how it is synced to mains ? is it the sync pin ? filters inside the ADC ?
or done in software ?
anyways, i perform a lot of side by side tests at the moment, using Test Controller and SDM3055 parallel voltage input to Keysight 34465A,
and the signals are very different
specially the 34465A can clearly do magic when the user configurable PPM filter is adjusted,
i just say : i would be super happy for a similar feature, this will give me 2 more useable digits on the data it sends out,
no visible difference on the display, since it only show much less
By the way ; there was a trick ? to make the SDM3055 show more digits on its display ?
it will only make sense to apply such hack, if a more slow filter can be enabled too
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Is there another way to connect SDM3065X to TestController than TCPIP? USBTMC is not supported?
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Is there another way to connect SDM3065X to TestController than TCPIP? USBTMC is not supported?
Only TCPIP, but you can use either Socket or LXI (Click on the value in the Type column to select).
LXI do not need the IP address, it can poll the network for all LXI devices and automatically find it.
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we dont know exactly how the cpu reads the ADC ?
how it is synced to mains ? is it the sync pin ? filters inside the ADC ?
or done in software ?
anyways, i perform a lot of side by side tests at the moment, using Test Controller and SDM3055 parallel voltage input to Keysight 34465A,
and the signals are very different
specially the 34465A can clearly do magic when the user configurable PPM filter is adjusted,
i just say : i would be super happy for a similar feature, this will give me 2 more useable digits on the data it sends out,
no visible difference on the display, since it only show much less
By the way ; there was a trick ? to make the SDM3055 show more digits on its display ?
it will only make sense to apply such hack, if a more slow filter can be enabled too
It is not synced to mains. Rejection is part of ADC internal algorithm.
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we dont know exactly how the cpu reads the ADC ?
how it is synced to mains ? is it the sync pin ? filters inside the ADC ?
or done in software ?
anyways, i perform a lot of side by side tests at the moment, using Test Controller and SDM3055 parallel voltage input to Keysight 34465A,
and the signals are very different
specially the 34465A can clearly do magic when the user configurable PPM filter is adjusted,
i just say : i would be super happy for a similar feature, this will give me 2 more useable digits on the data it sends out,
no visible difference on the display, since it only show much less
By the way ; there was a trick ? to make the SDM3055 show more digits on its display ?
it will only make sense to apply such hack, if a more slow filter can be enabled too
The SD ADCs inherently have digital filtering build in. In some cases this can (not with the AD7190) be quite close to a fixed integration time, but often there are other filters, like the sinc³ filter, as 3 times the filtering like integration in series. This gives better suppression of the 50/60Hz and thus usually no sync to the mains phase needed and available. It comes at the price of longer settling, So the consecutive readings are no longer fully independent and there is some settling (like 3 conversions) after a step. So 5 readings per second on the SDM3055 is different from 5 readings per second on an 34401, more like comparable to 2.5 readings per second (10 PLC AZ). The ADC is inherently different and the comparisone is not easy.
Chances are the slow, med, fast settings are just 3 filter / speed options available from the AD7190. There are more internal options (including higher speed) and the µC could also do some averaging in software to get closer to something like 10 PLC classic integration from averaging 10 consecutive readings at 50 SPS. Currently this can be done on the PC.
More averaging could still be useful when the signal source is noisy. The meter itself and especially the ADC should be OK with stable 5.5 digits already for the 50 SPS mode.
More resolution on the screen may be available from the math function, as the average values with manual reset.
With the Sigilent firmware we could be happy with bug fixes in reasonable time. I would not have too much hope for much extra functionality. This would be more like a thing with the 3048 - that has HW that is capable of more. Not sure why they keep separate FW and not switch over to a SMD3055E with essentially the same FW and only lower specs, higher drift. It would be one FW version less to maintain, and I doubt there would be much complaint's from the users.
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but it is too deep to fit my lab table .. oh them problems..
There is a French girl who's been working on her 3055 for a coupe of years (cough), so hang on for a while longer and you might have a 7.5 digit 3055 in a nice small package.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-siglent-sdm3055/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-siglent-sdm3055/)
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Does anyone know how to programmatically put the DMM back to LOCAL after making a remote reading? I'm using LAN right now. I searched the manuals and Googled to no avail. We just got some SDM3045Xs at work. When automating measurements I like my instrument displays to keeps updating when I'm not making readings, which for some instruments requires sending a command to go LOCAL after making a measurement. Only way I've seen to do this so far is by sending a *RST (which resets everything).
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my 3055 still reads anything the remote connection does, on its own display
dont understand your question
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my 3055 still reads anything the remote connection does, on its own display
dont understand your question
If there is 2V at the input, and I send the command "READ?", the display then freezes showing 2V. If the input voltage changes, the display won't change until I send "READ?" again. I don't want to have my program continually sending reads just to make the display update. I want to programmatically get the instrument back in LOCAL mode so that it changes automatically. Many instruments either don't freeze the display on a read, or allow you to send a command like LOCAL. It might be that I need to use a different command besides "READ?" if there is another one that doesn't freeze the display.
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Sound like the trigger is going to a stopped state after the single read command?
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The trigger is staying in the immediate state (verified with TRIG:SOUR?). If I use "INIT" followed by "FETCH?" it does the same thing. I see the display update when I send the INIT, but the display stays constant afterwards. Yes, like the trigger is stopping.
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Does anyone know how to programmatically put the DMM back to LOCAL after making a remote reading? I'm using LAN right now. I searched the manuals and Googled to no avail. We just got some SDM3045Xs at work. When automating measurements I like my instrument displays to keeps updating when I'm not making readings, which for some instruments requires sending a command to go LOCAL after making a measurement. Only way I've seen to do this so far is by sending a *RST (which resets everything).
Please quote the firmware version installed ?
Strongly advise to update to latest if not already:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3045X_5.01.01.07R1.zip
Also what SW you're using for remote control ?
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SW Ver: 5.01.01.01.05. I'll look at updating this to .07. Thanks for the link. I just downloaded it.
I'm using NI VISA to communicate. For high level language I use LabVIEW and C.
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SW Ver: 5.01.01.01.05. I'll look at updating this to .07. Thanks for the link. I just downloaded it.
I'm using NI VISA to communicate. For high level language I use LabVIEW and C.
You need to.
There have been a couple of versions since 05 that have SCPI bugs fixed including the latest 07:
Release notes
2. Optimize flash R&W design.
3. Fix some UI & SCPI bugs.
Both those fixes are important to have installed.
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updated firmware to 7R1. Same. Some instruments just don't have the ability to programmatically go back to LOCAL. One of my pet peeves.
One thing I discovered earlier with my Siglent SDS-1104X-E at work was that in LabVIEW I needed to specify "Synchronous I/O Mode" on the VISA vis. I've been remotely controlling equipment since about 1988 (mostly HP gear) and I'd never run across the Synchronous/Asynchronous thing before. I've had instances where I had to fiddle with the GPIB Mode for some old gear. When I use the NI VISA calls in C, I don't have to specify this, but in LabVIEW, the default for VISA write and read vis is Asynchronous. I guessed correctly that I have to use Synchronous on this DMM just like the scope. I think there was something in the Siglent scope documentation that mentioned this.
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Hi one and all,
Ever since I acquired an SDL1020X-E (now upgraded to 1030X spec) just over a week ago, I've developed a sudden and keen interest in K type thermocouples and how well Siglent have implemented their "Isothermal" cold junction reference in the SDM3065X.
Failing to find any in depth tear down videos or even just write ups, I started a more general DDG search and came upon the service manual here:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDM3065X_ServiceManual_SM06036-E02F.pdf
Which offered this little nugget hidden away on page 14 of this 36 page pdf (read it and weep).
====================================================================================
[3] Relative to cold junction temperature, accuracy is based on ITS-90. Built-in cold junction temperature
refers to the temperature inside the banana jack and its accuracy is ± 2.5 °C.
====================================================================================
That's a pretty lousy performance and suggests they're using a cold end temperature sensor well removed from the banana jacks of which they speak. :( :( :(
I mean :wtf: If a cheap Chinese knock off of the Hakko FG-100 can track well within 0.5*C of three separate "Weather Station"'s indoor thermometers, you'd think Siglent might have taken just a modicum of care to get this right and at least place the NTC resistor sensor in between the relevant banana jack sockets to keep the cold end junction compensation error minimised.
That statement strongly suggests they've placed it well away somewhere on the mainboard or, Gawd forbid! resorted to the one built into the main cpu with a compensatory fudge factor applied ("fudge" being rather apt if such a Half Arsed method has actually been employed).
The fact it appears to be under-reading only by about 0.6*C as best as I can tell, using the K type TC that came with a BSIDE ACM91 I'd bought primarily for its DC clamp meter's 1mA resolution, would appear to be down to 'dumb luck' in my example.
I think most thermocouple based thermometers manage to sense the cold junction temperature to well with 0.5*C so it's rather a disappointment to see Siglent take such a lackadaisical attitude to the temperature measurement functions. This is made all the more egregious by the fact that the temperature display is irritatingly cursed with some two to four meaninglessly dancing digits to the right of the decimal point.
Right now, I've only got the one K type TC (fortuitously terminated with banana plugs) and a bunch of spare TCs for that FG-100 soldering iron temperature calibration aid. I've got a 5 metre coil of fibreglass and stainless steel insulated TC wire to make my own K type probes along with a couple more K types (another banana plug ended probe like the BSIDE one and the other with the mini TC polarised plug supplied with a cheap TM-902C Meter on order from eBay sellers. Hopefully, I'll be able to run more tests with another two K type TCs by the start of next week (the 5 metre coil of TC wire is on a slow boat from China).
BTW, what had prompted this sudden interest in K type TC probes was the fact that when I was stress testing the SDL1030X at 309W, I was reading heatsink temperatures of 90 to 92 deg C with no hint of the OTP kicking in, despite Siglent specifying the threshold temperature had been set to a mere 85*C, leaving me to ponder just what this OTP trip out temperature is actually set to (poor calibration or a design decision to go some ten degrees higher and not bother the user guide's copy writer with an update?). :-//
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Yeah sounds not really good at first sight.. but..
Thermocouples are not accurate at all, most of them. They will have lousy absolute accuracy unless you shell out for really good ones.
For more accurate measurements at moderate temps RTD and thermistors is a way to go.
Keithley DMM6500 doesn't even have any junction compensation built in in base meter.
Keysight 34461A doesn't have thermocouple measurements at all. You need to upgrade to 34465A to get it, and then yeah it goes like this:
K, J, T, E, N thermocouples Probe accuracy + reference junction accuracy + 0.3 °C
R thermocouples 14 (250 to 1760 °C) Probe accuracy + reference junction accuracy + 0.5 °C
The internal reference junction uses the U1180A or equivalent adapter. This has a typical performance of ± 1.0 °C. This internal reference junction can be adjusted for better accuracy. An external reference junction can also be used.
So however, you need to calibrate for the thermocouple you'll be using because those will vary few °C between each specimen.
What matters is how meter measures after you calibrate for the thermocouple, i.e. after you adjust how good is relative measurement. And that seems to be more than OK in SDM3065X.
None of them are really brilliant for temp measurement. That is one measurement that benefits from highly specialized instruments. Also, nowadays, you'll pretty much get better and from the factory calibrated guaranteed specs by using one of the several high accuracy integrated temp sensors. At which time it would be a good idea to get humidity and barometric pressure too..
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====================================================================================
[3] Relative to cold junction temperature, accuracy is based on ITS-90. Built-in cold junction temperature
refers to the temperature inside the banana jack and its accuracy is ± 2.5 °C.
====================================================================================
That's a pretty lousy performance and suggests they're using a cold end temperature sensor well removed from the banana jacks of which they speak. :( :( :(
I mean :wtf: If a cheap Chinese knock off of the Hakko FG-100 can track well within 0.5*C of three separate "Weather Station"'s indoor thermometers, you'd think Siglent might have taken just a modicum of care to get this right and at least place the NTC resistor sensor in between the relevant banana jack sockets to keep the cold end junction compensation error minimised.
The +-2.5° C has to be seen as a spec limt, while the 0.5° C seem to be a measured deviation. Spec limits are often 2 to 3 times the measured variations and may be more conservative in some cases. So the difference is not really large.
No matter what a thermocouple reading with banana plugs is never really accurate. The cold junction measurement is just not working well with these plugs.
If you need a accurate measurement with a thermocouple, use a seprate thermometer with proper therminals.
These special thermocouple plugs are however not safe for higher voltage. So there is no easy way to have that with a normal DMM. The best one can find is a slot for a scanner card that than includes a good cold junction compensation. External cold junction compensation is another option, though this would need support on the side of the meter or manual conversion from voltage to temperature.
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In the Temp menu there is a feature to add custom sensors and tune them for accuracy however at this time there is little documentation about this but we've asked Siglent to prepare an App note on it.
Some info here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/msg3757376/#msg3757376 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-versus-dm3058e-sensor-input-4-20ma/msg3757376/#msg3757376)
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Thanks Guys!
I'm all too familiar with the practice of showing much slacker worst case tolerance values in datasheets than the end customer is more typically likely to see. It's known as "Covering your backside". :)
I assumed this was the case here but even so, that +/- 2.5*C seems stupendously wide imo. However, late last night before retiring for a night's sleep, I noticed that the Siglent had gotten to within 0.2*C of the cheap inside/outdoor thermometer which was itself within 0.5*C of the two "weather station" indoor temperature readings.
This morning, all three indoor temperature readings were within 0.1*C of each other (18.1*C) and the temperature readout after a minute or so of switching the Siglent meter on, was showing just 0.2*C higher (on average - pesky digit dance!) but, of course, after the obligatory 30 minute warm up, it had drifted upwards (18.7ish*C versus the cheap indoor/outdoor thermometer's 18.2*C right by the TC tip but another two hours later it was adrift by -1.4*C on that indoor/outdoor thermometer's reading.
The ITWorks Wx station is now showing 23.0*C whilst the cheap 'n' cheerful Atech (doesn't show barometric data like the ITWorks unit) shows 23.9*C (the indoor/outdoor thermometer shows 23.0*C). The room has warmed up some 5*C over the past two and a half hours due to the XYL wishing to have the CH turned on and the temperature readout differences are simply due to the variation in thermal inertia between the Wx stations and that indoor/outdoor thermometer.
Over the years of ownership of the ITWorks and Atech Wx stations, I've become resigned to the accuracy limits of temperature sensors (particularly the outdoor ones due to actual temperature differences) and don't expect any of these to be better than +/- 1*C at best (none of them are meteorological grade units).
That very generous +/-2.5*C tolerance Siglent gave themselves made me wonder just exactly how they were implementing the "Cold End" compensation in the SDM3065X. From the way it drifts during changes of room ambient, it looks like the cold end sensor isn't where it should be (between the banana sockets) and might even be inside the cpu with a compensatory 'fudge factor' applied. :o
If it's the latter, then "It is what it is". Otoh, if they've simply used a badly placed thermistor, that would give me the option to relocate it close(r) to the banana sockets in three years time when the warranty runs out. ::)
In the meantime, I've got a TM-902C Meter with K type probe winging its way to me from a UK based seller. I rather think this will provide better accuracy and stability than the SDM3065X has to offer with K type probes. I'll see whether this will be the case though soon enough. :-DD
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As already stated banana plugs are not the best way to connect thermocouplers, but neither is cheap thermocoupler connectors and I would not expect cheap thermocoupler meters to be good either (The few I have looked inside do not place the compensation sensor near the connector).
Generally the problem with cheap thermocoupler connectors is that the two pins on the plug is the same metal and not thermocoupler alloys.
I made me own thermocoupler devices where I had that problem: https://lygte-info.dk/project/ThermoSensor%20UK.html (https://lygte-info.dk/project/ThermoSensor%20UK.html)
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The relatively cheap (e.g. yellow plastics for type K, the color corresponds to the elements) flat pin thermocouple connector are actually quite good, as they use proper alloy pins. They are available in a small and large typ. I would definitely prefer them over the rather expensive Lemo ones with gold plated copper alloy contracts and meatal shield. One can do the test, joining a TC cable with a connector pair and measure the voltage, with both end of the TC keept at a constant temperature and than warm up the connector: this usually gives very little voltage (e.g. 1 µV range).
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The relatively cheap (e.g. yellow plastics for type K, the color corresponds to the elements) flat pin thermocouple connector are actually quite good, as they use proper alloy pins.
Brand name models probably do, but the 1$ Chinese do not and they are the ones supplied with cheap meters.
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Regarding cheap K type thermometers such as that TM-902C I mentioned, I came across this YT test and teardown video (about the best of the many YT video reviews of this ubiquitous meter!).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-QOXHjHhjs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-QOXHjHhjs)
Looking at the PCB in that vid, there doesn't seem to be a discrete NTC near the socket but with a power consumption likely less than 100mW (possibly much less - something I'll be checking out on the one I've ordered) using a reference junction temperature sensor integrated into the COB ic is probably going to introduce less error than that of SDM3065X.
I've since done some more testing and I now have reason to believe the SDM does use a sensor close to the banana jacks - it's just unfortunate that the 13W's worth of heat (fan notwithstanding) creates a thermal gradient of some 2*C between the banana socket's solder tags and the external ambient. However, this should be a relatively fixed temperature offset which could be adjusted for if only Siglent had included an option to calibrate for this effect.
As has already been suggested, a K type 4mm banana to mini adapter might prove an effective solution (with mini jack terminated thermocouples, of course!). I'll have a better idea as to whether such expense is warranted once I have a couple more K types to compare with (and there's always that 5m coil of K type cable to experiment with when that finally lands on my door mat).
The trouble is not that there aren't any teardown reviews (video or text only) which delve into this aspect of the SDM3065X so much as the fact that no one has posted any tear downs of any kind on this bench meter. :(
You'd think YT would be awash with such tear down vids by now but so far so absent. :wtf: :popcorn:
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New SCPI command:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sdm3000-remote-scpi-command-to-request-a-screen-image/?pdf=23982
SDM3000 remote SCPI command to request a screen image
The SDM3045X, SDM3055, and SDM3065X can return bitmap images of their displays by sending the following command:
SCDP
Also applies to all SDG AWG's.
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I actually wish that my SDM3065X didn't lock the front panel when using the remote interface at all.
I wanted to control and send the readings from "Test Controller" to display on screen when I live streams, but also I need to be able to control the meter from my desk as I am working on something, as it stands right now I have to choose between using the meter at the bench OR having the readings in test controller (or any other SCPI control interface).
Rob can you please put a request through to Siglent to have them allow local AND remote control simultaneously, so it just responds to controls from whichever it gets a command from, whilst also updating the screen and sending SCPI readings at the same time.
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+1 for that !!
scopes dont do this, i can pc remote, AND adjust on the scope at the same time,
but multimeters, powersupplies, signal generators, dont alow this, when in remote, they are all locked,
but why ??
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I actually wish that my SDM3065X didn't lock the front panel when using the remote interface at all.
I wanted to control and send the readings from "Test Controller" to display on screen when I live streams, but also I need to be able to control the meter from my desk as I am working on something, as it stands right now I have to choose between using the meter at the bench OR having the readings in test controller (or any other SCPI control interface).
Rob can you please put a request through to Siglent to have them allow local AND remote control simultaneously, so it just responds to controls from whichever it gets a command from, whilst also updating the screen and sending SCPI readings at the same time.
Done.
They go on CHY soon so it might be a couple weeks before we get any reply.
2022, the year of the tiger !
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+1 for that !!
scopes dont do this, i can pc remote, AND adjust on the scope at the same time,
but multimeters, powersupplies, signal generators, dont alow this, when in remote, they are all locked,
but why ??
That has been industry norm for many years. It comes from fact that if you have some remote control script that is in control of instrument inside some automated procedure (test for instance) you want front panel locked so nobody can do screw with your test protocol by mistake. Scopes don't do that by default, but you have command to lock them too....
Or rack mount scopes that don't even have front panel and screen for dedicated test...
Pretty much all of them have "Local" button for that purpose. If you press "Local" you get your control back.
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+1 for that !!
scopes dont do this, i can pc remote, AND adjust on the scope at the same time,
but multimeters, powersupplies, signal generators, dont alow this, when in remote, they are all locked,
but why ??
That has been industry norm for many years. It comes from fact that if you have some remote control script that is in control of instrument inside some automated procedure (test for instance) you want front panel locked so nobody can do screw with your test protocol by mistake. Scopes don't do that by default, but you have command to lock them too....
Or rack mount scopes that don't even have front panel and screen for dedicated test...
Pretty much all of them have "Local" button for that purpose. If you press "Local" you get your control back.
I want it to be selectable, right now it is one or the other, not both, there is no reason why the *LOCK command cant be used when needed to lockout the front panel in those situations as has been done on other gear.
Some of my other Siglent gear allows you to choose whether or not you lock the front panel when using remote, I cant remember if it was the SDL1030X or the SPD1168 that did it, if you didn't lock it you could use both local and remote at the same time, if you lock it then it is remote only unless you force it into local.
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EXACTLY Scott, going local, will loose your remote data feed/control = sad
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Run/Stop is the one free button that doesn't have a Shift function, maybe some innovative function can be applied to it. :popcorn:
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+1 for that !!
scopes dont do this, i can pc remote, AND adjust on the scope at the same time,
but multimeters, powersupplies, signal generators, dont alow this, when in remote, they are all locked,
but why ??
That has been industry norm for many years. It comes from fact that if you have some remote control script that is in control of instrument inside some automated procedure (test for instance) you want front panel locked so nobody can do screw with your test protocol by mistake. Scopes don't do that by default, but you have command to lock them too....
Or rack mount scopes that don't even have front panel and screen for dedicated test...
Pretty much all of them have "Local" button for that purpose. If you press "Local" you get your control back.
I want it to be selectable, right now it is one or the other, not both, there is no reason why the *LOCK command cant be used when needed to lockout the front panel in those situations as has been done on other gear.
Some of my other Siglent gear allows you to choose whether or not you lock the front panel when using remote, I cant remember if it was the SDL1030X or the SPD1168 that did it, if you didn't lock it you could use both local and remote at the same time, if you lock it then it is remote only unless you force it into local.
Scot,
I'm not opposed to idea, just commenting on state of the art...
User control is a good thing, except where it is obviously dangerous.
Best,
Sinisa
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That is fine, I can see exactly where you are coming from, I just think the ability to choose needs to be there to allow for more usage scenarios.
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Scott's use case is unusual however not unreasonable in that he's needing a SCPI graphic on his PC while filming of his repairs and such for his YT channel where the DMM is within reach to change its settings (within reason) and still have them displayed on his video capture.
He and I talked about this requirement a while back and Scott started writing SW to meet his requirements but discovered HKJ's excellent TestController saved him a lotta work especially when HKJ also tweaked some features to satisfy his needs.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/)
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I do generally like locking the front panel, probably because I often use TestController for automatic logging and testing.
Using a handheld meter with TestController will usually avoid any locking the user interface and TC works just as well with a handheld meter* as with a bench meter.
*Mostly meters with a serial computer connection, HID interface is problematic.
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How the dual display feature works? Is possible fo example to measure voltage and current at the same time? The manual doesn't explain too much
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How the dual display feature works? Is possible fo example to measure voltage and current at the same time? The manual doesn't explain too much
DUAL switches between the two modes, try to activate it you hear it,
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How the dual display feature works? Is possible fo example to measure voltage and current at the same time? The manual doesn't explain too much
Simple overview of Dual measurement capability here:
https://www.siglenteu.com/operating-tip/dual-measurement-connections-for-voltage-period-frequency-and-current-measurements-for-sdm3000-series-dmms/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/operating-tip/dual-measurement-connections-for-voltage-period-frequency-and-current-measurements-for-sdm3000-series-dmms/)
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Be aware, on a SDM3055, latest firmware (1.01.01.25), the bug mentioned in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3779651/#msg3779651 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3779651/#msg3779651) is present. Use manual range settings for DCV/DCI, then it works correctly.
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SDM3065X (firmware 3.01.01.10)
5 years of waiting are over: it became possible to work with a PT100/PT1000 temperature sensor using a 4-wire circuit.
It remains to find out the secret SCPI-command to enable this mode.
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did anyone address the odd random voltage drops seen on SDM3055 ?
see the attached curve..
it is NOT the input voltage, it is not a temperature thing (verified by other instruments in parallel)
blue raw data from SDM3055
red 10 times avarage
data fetch every 3 sec via ethernet,
SDM3055 been powered on at least one week constantly,
I have seen this ALWAYS, happens about one time pr day, sometimes it looks a bit different.
software issue ??
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A 50 µV drop is about 10 x more than to expect from a LM399 reference. The time scale is also quite slow with the lower values for some 10-20 minutes. So I don't think this would be some normal popcorn noise - it is unusually slow and also rather large amplitude for this. The 3055 uses a bandgap reference, but I would not expect that kind of noise from a bandgap ref. A pure SW issue would be strange, as it happens so rarely and than for a long time with still some variations - maybe more like some EMI / interference from WLAN or similar that is doing a new channel assignment / reset about daily.
Still 50 µV on a 20 V range would be still below the resolution of the 5.5 digit meter - so on the display those jumps would hardly be visible.
It this type of jump only happening when measuring a significant votlage or is it also happening when measuring zero volts ? This information could help to see if the error is more an additive or multiplicative.
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did anyone address the odd random voltage drops seen on SDM3055 ?
see the attached curve..
it is NOT the input voltage, it is not a temperature thing (verified by other instruments in parallel)
blue raw data from SDM3055
red 10 times avarage
data fetch every 3 sec via ethernet,
SDM3055 been powered on at least one week constantly,
I have seen this ALWAYS, happens about one time pr day, sometimes it looks a bit different.
software issue ??
V1.01.01.25 firmware ?
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>V1.01.01.25 firmware ?
YES SIR
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to kleinstein, I have been running tests with multible meters in parallel,
it is only a "thing" on my SDM3055
in a few hrs one more SDM3055 show up here, then i prove if this also happens on that one,
AND more important ?? is it in sync ? or just as random, time will tell,
it is also using same fw
any one also who own SDM3055, also own a nice clean 10V supply to test with ?
perform same zoom ? curve ? need to be running a few days
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it is too erly to come with big conclutions,
however see the two new curves,
both units been running 24hrs, before i started this measurement.
blue is a brand new SDM3055
red is my one year old SDM3055
same FW and same SW as reported by the screen,
the input is the SAME voltage LM399
the only modification done is offset so the curves are nicely placed in the 0.5mV full screen range
data fetch every 3 sec.
tomorrow i can go pickup another DMM and run all 3 in parallel with the same input
and reset the test.
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Interesting findings...the step looks very 'binary'.
Can we assume that both DMMs are located in the near-exact same physical location and are orientated the same? (in case this voltage step is being caused by some external influence)
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thanks for your reply CDN_Torsten,
they are located directly on top of each other, and powered with the same Y mains cable, nothing else nearby is turned on,
i have been running this test for weeks now, and it looks about the same, the binary drops are NOT in sync with day/night
or ambient temperature, if it was anything from an external source, i would belive we should see the same, on the other unit
at the very same time. ?
I plan to keep this running a few days,
(i go nuts if this is not going to happen on the other SDM3055, this means mine is defective,
and since this is way under spec, noise or accurasy or resolution, no one from Siglent is going to fix or repair or replace it..)
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This is very interesting as we see this same type "jump" on our SDM3065X!
Although not as high, more like 5~10uV jumps. The setup is also similar with multiple DMMs (dual KS34465A, DMM6500) reading 7V or 10V from a LM399 (or LTZ1000) reference. This was noted some time ago and we began to leave the 3065X powered ON hoping to reduce this effect thinking it was due to the internal LM399 reference and attributed as "popcorn noise", thus aging the LM399 should help. The frequency of the jumps seems to be lower now after a few months of powered ON, and hopefully will get better over time.
Frankly I'm disappointed in the performance of the 3065A, and why we've selected the DMM6500 and another KS3465A as our DMM needs grow. Even much prefer the pair of old HP/AG 34401As we have to the 3065A.
We first observed this "jumping" when doing long Trend Charts on multiple DMMs, only the 3065X showed this behavior mid-last year.
Understand the 3065X uses a LM399, but the 3055 uses another reference? If, so then maybe something else common to both DMMs is causing this jump??
Best,
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both my curves are SDM3055 units,
when i had an SDM3065, i am so sorry i did not perform this test
yes the SDM3055 uses MAX6325 2.5V 1ppm ref. and AD7190 ADC 24 bit
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For a LM399 reference it is relatively common to see jumps in the 4 µV range. With 10 V signal this would be some 6 µV.
I would not habe too much hope the LM399 popcorn noise to improve with aging. It may get better, but it may as well get worse.
I would be surprised to to see jumps in the reference votlage to see some 50 µV at 10 V reference - so some 12 µV for a 2.5 V reference.
The reference is a bit lower grade, but it should not have that much noise. The weakness is more with the TC and thermal hysteresis.
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You might consider the excellent DMM6500 and KS34465A. After you use these awhile in some real work situations then you'll get a good perspective. IMO these are in a different DMM league than the 3065X for actual lab (research) use, but YMMV.
Best,
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Since both DMMs are experiencing this "jump", although at different levels, and both have different references, maybe something else is contributing?
Best,
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mike ? how do you conclude this :
>Since both DMMs are experiencing this "jump", although at different levels, and both have different references, maybe something else is contributing?
by looking at this attached result, of two SDM3055 in parallel,
I say : it is proven, that the jump is NOT from the DC input voltage,
right ??
PS: yes yes, i know, there is also a KS34465A showing up tomorrow :-)
but that is not what this thread is about
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With the 2 parallel readings it is clear the error is not from the reference souce. It looks like only one of the 3055 is effected and not both. Somehow the jumps are quite similar (same size and short / long pulse) for a pure analog effect and still too variable for a software problem.
The 50 µV jump hight is rather large for normal popcorn noise, even though the 20 V range starts with a divider. So at the actual input amplifier and ADC input it would be only 5 µV of a jump. From teardown pictures it looks like they use AD8629 OPs for the amplifier, an this AZ OP should not show popcorn noise of any significant level.
To narrow the source down, maybe da a test with either shorted input (no more effect from the meters reference) or a smaller reference in the 2 V range (no more divider at the input).
Another point may be to run a few small amplitude temperature cycle to see if this can provoke similar jumps.
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mike ? how do you conclude this :
>Since both DMMs are experiencing this "jump", although at different levels, and both have different references, maybe something else is contributing?
by looking at this attached result, of two SDM3055 in parallel,
I say : it is proven, that the jump is NOT from the DC input voltage,
right ??
PS: yes yes, i know, there is also a KS34465A showing up tomorrow :-)
but that is not what this thread is about
Was referring to our SDM3065X and your SDM3055.
Best,
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Kleinstein, our luck, in my unluck, just checked my invoice and it is 5 days out of waranty
so this means i am free to open it, and figure this out, once and for all :-)
but i wait a few days until the two units in parallel test is over.
have we any schematics ? or is all know-how based on close up pictures of the pcb ?
the idea about shorting the input, and see if it is still there is good, maybe it is a 20V range issue ?
so i should stay in this range, for the first test to make sense ?
Mike , Was referring to our SDM3065X and your SDM3055.
ok, thanks, yes now it makes sense :-)
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My knowledge about the HW is to a large part from the close up pictures shown - there are not that many parts and even without seeing the connections one can get a good idea on how the input stage is about build. The SDM3055 should still be relatively simple - the 3065 seems to be a bit more tricky, getting 20 V with high impedance.
Some more information is from the alternative / hacked firmware version some-one from France developed. This gave the hint that there seems to be no amplification before the ADC and the lower range gain is supposed to be from using the ADC internal gain steps. This makes absolutely sense as this gain is quite stable and already part of the ADC.
If it is an issue with the input divider part / 20 V range, chances are the problem may not show up with a short. A shorted input would not show a change in the divider ratio. The shorted input test would mainly check if the error is more like an additive (kind of offset error) or a multiplicative error.
When doing a test with a short, one may as well do alternating readings in the 20 V and 2 V range (e.g. 1 minute interval). At least so far the jumps are for quite some time. So one could test the 2 ranges simlultaneously. Chances are the input switching could use a mechanical relay, and this would also be a candidate for the error. Mechanical switching a low level signal can be tricky with oxidized contacts. So one may even consider alternating between the 20 V and 200 V range and still have the 10 V test signal. Some excercise may help to clean the relay contacts.
The 20 V range is with 10 M input impedance and thus in theory contact resistance at the input can be an issue too.
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thanks a lot kleinstein, you give me new hope,
i allready plan to open it, and run the test while open, and then knock on the relays while looking at the curves,
i do think it is very random, and i feel it is getting worse, not better,
i can also solder a wire from the ADC input, and from the REF and perform parallel measurements
to reveal where this odd jump come in, if i cant reveal it on ADC input or REF, it can only be the ADC chip i need to replace
since it contain all the gain stuff too, i think i give it a high value of possibility, even before i have performed any measurements,
wrong assumption ??
hey : we can even play a game : who can guess where it is, before we start to dig :-)
lets see who is the lucky ? or the most clever ?
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Chances are the input switching could use a mechanical relay, and this would also be a candidate for the error. Mechanical switching a low level signal can be tricky with oxidized contacts. So one may even consider alternating between the 20 V and 200 V range and still have the 10 V test signal. Some excercise may help to clean the relay contacts.
Certainly some range changes are switched with relays.
You might be onto something here.
It might also be interesting to know if all models use the same relays and if they have been changed in different HW versions.
Calling Detective Sherlock Holmes .........
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I don't think the ADC is a likely candidate for the fault. This would be a rather large error for the ADC. The gain part within SD ADCs is usually relatively simple a change in the sampling frequency for the input. The input is sampled in a a switched capacitor way and gain for the input just increases the sampling frequency for the switched capacitor. This way one gets gain steps very close to integer factors like 2,4,8 and a rare cases also other numbers in between.
The more relalistic candidates for a failure are the divider resistor, relay contacts or a bad solder joint. A test while pressing different parts of the PCB could check for contact problems that react to mechanical movement.
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Or use simple a freeze spray, good quality & without dust...
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it just did it again
when looking at the two small pulses, they look about same duration ??
so i zoomed it, and read the cursor values .
first long pulse is 83.5 mins,
first short pulse is 21.8 mins,
last short pulse is 20.2 mins,
Blue (the new SDM3055) is still slowly climbing, aging is begun :-)
is there an hour counter we can read from the unit ?
tautech ? do you have access to tech files ?
is it possible to tell me, what parts numbers,
are in the signal path 20V DC range, from the banana and all the way to the ADC,
this way my search for the jumpy problem will be much easier,
I guess you cant send me a schematic ? or a pcb layout signal path explainer ?
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tautech do you have access to tech files ?
None at all, sorry.
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who will cry with me ??
I opened it, just to take a look
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:o What's happened there ? :scared:
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remember my SDM3055 with the odd sparking or clicking sounds ??
https://youtu.be/hCBbnuBiqwc
it was send back to Siglent for Repair.. this is how they repaired it,
I assume they did nothing, the sparking came from a cap near the ADC that is halve way off the pcb
and its pad is pulled off !! some one dropped a screwdriver into my unit while they assembled it,
or something like that, how the heck will you pull of a 0805 cap this much, together with its pad,
you can even see the prepeg on the bottom side of the pad,
there is no way i can repair this my self.. i never had one happy day with my SDM3055
and now over one year passed !!
Tried to take a few better pictures
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Yes it seems this is physical damage from PCB mishandling ....but when.
Are any impact marks visible ?
PM me with the SN# and I'll get its records researched.
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remember my SDM3055 with the odd sparking or clicking sounds ??
https://youtu.be/hCBbnuBiqwc
it was send back to Siglent for Repair.. this is how they repaired it,
I assume they did nothing, the sparking came from a cap near the ADC that is halve way off the pcb
and its pad is pulled off !! some one dropped a screwdriver into my unit while they assembled it,
or something like that, how the heck will you pull of a 0805 cap this much, together with its pad,
you can even see the prepeg on the bottom side of the pad,
there is no way i can repair this my self.. i never had one happy day with my SDM3055
and now over one year passed !!
Tried to take a few better pictures
I'm a little puzzled as to why you mentioned "and now over one year passed !!". The video you made is dated 28 July 2021, just a little over 6 months ago and Siglent offer a three year warranty (for us Brits at least) on, as far as I've ever known, every one of their test instruments from new. You seem to be implying that you'd originally purchased this just over three years ago. Is this the case?
Warranty repairs are typically warranted for another 3 or 6 months or the remaining from new warranty period, whichever is the the longer. Even if it really is just a few days "Out of Warranty", in view of what seems to be "repair damage" sustained whilst it was still within its original warranty period, I think it may still be worth asking Siglent to effect an "in warranty repair".
You seem to have enough documentary evidence to support such a claim and with Siglent having demonstrated that they do care one bit about their customers (unlike the likes of Feeltech/FeelElec for instance), they may well 'do the right thing' if only for the sake of turning a disaster into a PR coup, especially if tautech manages to find evidence in support of your case. :)
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before we blow this sideways,
latest info : Siglent and my Sales rep are on the case, all say they will send me a new one,
so i am as happy as can be again, i do admit i felt like a fuse blown last night..
Yes Johnny the unit was purchased a few days over 1 year ago, it took 6month of research to dig down the strange sparking sound,
and a few month of sending and repair delay, i was lucky to be able to loan another DMM from my sales rep, so yes, i know they do care about me and my work.
Bad things can happen, you need to measure people, on how they handle their customers, when it does,
and so far i have no problems, i expect to get a shipment info within a few days :-)
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Good news, and Siglent has again stepped up and taken care of the customer :-+
Best,
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Good news, and Siglent has again stepped up and taken care of the customer :-+
Best,
This also shows the value in purchasing only from authorized dealers. ;)
Most of the wheels had been greased already so barely a additional push from here got things moving. :)
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by the way : since that SDM3055 is open, i took a tweezer and poked a little bit to the cap, and it fell off,
then i repeated my 10V long time super zoomed test, and now the odd jumps are gone :-)
funny to know that was the source of the problems.
anyone know the type number ? datasheet for this Resistor Network ?
google know nothing
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@anyone know the type number ? datasheet for this Resistor Network ?
13K resistors may 1..2W so as 8x in series as 104k ;D
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The resistor network in question is th IRC labeled one. IRC (now part of TTelectronics) seems to be the manufacturer and chances are this is a custom one.
Similar types are available as standard parts with TaN resistance elements.
The KS 34465 and similar seem to use similar resistor networks.
From the position in the circuit my guess is that it is part of the current source for the ohms ranges. The overall similar, lower cost SDM3045 looks like it uses more normal SMD resistors for this.
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As Kleinstein says these are probably a custom part, but there is similar ones on the TT IRC website with datasheets
https://www.ttelectronics.com/products/categories/resistors/resistors/?pageNumber=1&orderBy=0&Series=CHC%20Precision (https://www.ttelectronics.com/products/categories/resistors/resistors/?pageNumber=1&orderBy=0&Series=CHC%20Precision)
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Correct RN500 is for OHM i just double checked it,
I did discover the signal path, from jack to ADC,
I am now mapping temperature dependend parts in the 20V range,
in this quest i find a few things of interest
the Analog muxes are very sensitive to temperature, i did not expect that.
the large resistors R302-R309 are the voltage dividers for 200mV and 2V range.
the Resistor network RN1 is in use 20V-200V-1000V range, and is also very sensitive to temperature,
and it is very sensitive it is to anything comming near it, maybe a good idea to shield it ?
and to temperature isolate it from ambient ?
the zero drift opamp U406 is both the impedance buffer for ADC and LO ref drive.. it is also sensitive to temperature.
Refferance chip and ADC it self are also sensitive, but not as much as i expected,
right next to the ref chip, there is a TL072 running at +/-15V it is running hot, i did not figure out its function yet.
I am preparing to explain my findings in more detail soon.
signals explain
in 20V DC range, 10.0V input
GND of RN1 is+2.5V (buffered refferance)
LO black terminal for voltage input is +2.5V same buffered ref.
divided voltage from RN1 (pin3 is selected via ADG1408 U number unknown
then the voltage is buffered with left side U406 AD8629 zero drift opamp
right side of U406 is also a buffer, for the ref, both outputs go via high value resistor to a cap just over U406
this differential signal is 2.6V and 2.5V (the measured 10V input, is now only 100mV dif signal)
zero input, is 2.5V on both.
on the ADC, pin11 is the 2.6V, voltage measure
pin 12 is the buffered ref 2.5V
pin 13 and 15 is a direct connection to ref ic pin 6 = 2.5V
i find it a little bit odd, 20V range, and 200V range is 100% the same hardware configuration,
the only differance is internal ADC gain,
this means the 20V range, with a 10V signal, will have 10 times as much noise,
compared to the 200V range with a 100V input,
i would have loved it to be the other way :-)
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and here is the other picture, explaining the signal path
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R302 to R309 should not be a divider, but just a acts as a single resistor that can withstand a high voltage. It is there for protection.
The MUX chips react to temperature gradients, but not very much to the absolute temperature.
Using the same divider for 2 ranges is relatively common. In the usual high end meters the 1000 and 100 V range use a 1:100 divider and than measure the divider output in 1 or 10 V range. How the noise in the ranges behaves depends as there are multiple sources: the divider resistor (can be a mayor noise source compared to modern amplifiers), the amplifier and the ADC.
The divider configuration explains the relatively high noise in the 20 V range, though still good for a 5.5 digit meter.
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yes, i belive you are right about the protection resistors, NOT voltage dividers, i double check tonight, and update my post..
YES correct, all this about noise, and temperature drift, are all stuff, way below the normal usage, and normal specifications,
this 5½ digit do more than its specifications allready as it is,
i just try to take it up one more level, for the hobby of it..
next try is to experiment with ADC noise, my idea was to short the differential input near the ADC,
and see if i get a flat line.
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Before connecting anything internal, one could to the "normal" noise characterization of the different ranges. The 2 V range should be the best working range of the SDM3055 (and SDM3045), as there should be no divider or gain. Besides the ADC there should be mainly known noise sources: the protection resistor chain and the buffer amplifier. So the 2 V range should already be relatively close to the ADC noise. At least noise wise it should be well in the 6 digit range.
For the input divider it is very convenient to use the 1:100 step, as this allows to use electronic switching after the divider. The divider has a 1:10 step, but with 1000 V at the input this could have up to 100 V after the 1:10 divider and would thus need a relay for switching. So the setup with the 20 V as divide by 100 and than like the 200 mV range is a pragmatic solution and at the 5.5 digit level also sufficient.
The usual 6 digit meters use a similar setup, but with a 10 V range for the buffer/ADC and thus the 100 V range as divide by 100 and than like the 1 V range (e.g. gain of 10 before the ADC). So with these meters the 100 V range is a bit on the weak side.
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great idea, but i can only create a clean and stable voltage at 10.000 V :-) using my voltage standard project,
my normal powersupplies are less clean, and less stable, compared to this DMM
so this is not the way to reveal noise in the different ranges,
I got some 4 in 1 matched 1k thinnfilm resistor networks,
could be an idea to use alot of them in series, to create 1V and 100mV clean and stable, using 10V as input
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The initial noise test is with a short at the input, so a stable 0 V that fits all ranges.
A test with a votlage like 2 V or 10 V is mainly there to also check the DMM internal reference.
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ZERO volt short:
the last few days i did exactly that, on another DMM 6½ digits,
and find it not that easy to do,
some banana connectors add noise, also i find screw is better over soldering,
and a wire that is thick, and as short as possible is better too.
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These work well: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/223470935306 (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/223470935306)
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The 4 wire short from Ebay is not even a good one: the connection relies on the symmetry to be really 0 ohms in the 4 wire measurement. The conntectos look like they are made from a comboination of different metals. A simple DIY one bend from some 20 cm of 1.5 mm² bare copper wire is likely better.
At the 2 V level and more 6 digit performance the wire / connectors for the short should not jet be the major concern. It can be limiting when you go lower in the voltage (200 mV or 20 mV range).
A main point is keeping temperature gradients small. So a short wire and some cover to keep draft away can really help.
Things get only more complicated with a voltage reference - the short at least needs no power and can be very compact.
Much of the amplifier and ADC noise should be white noise. It can still be interesting to see where the additional low frequency noise (e.g. thermal fluctuatoins, maybe mains hum) comes in.
To see how much the reference contributes the test would be better in the 2 V range than in the 20 V range. So a divider from 10 V to some 2 V may still be a good idea. For just a noise test, a well insulated battery cell can also work. If kept at constant temperature and not mechanically disturbed a battery can be a pretty low noise voltage source. This is still a separate test, not replacing the noise test with a short.
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The 4 wire short from Ebay is not even a good one: the connection relies on the symmetry to be really 0 ohms in the 4 wire measurement. The conntectos look like they are made from a comboination of different metals. A simple DIY one bend from some 20 cm of 1.5 mm² bare copper wire is likely better.
Would you mind explaining what you mean by relying on symmetry to be 0ohms? I don't quite understand...
As for the composition of the connectors, they appear to be gold-plated copper or brass. I can also confirm that at 6.5 digits, the connector provides a very repeatable short.
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Looking closer at the 4 wire short, it is not even working right when symmetric, it has a principle problem in that the current between the drive terminals will no only flow the shortest way, but also take the long route around, close the the sense side. The crurde estimate is that maybe 1/8 the current would flow the long way and thus one may see a resistance of about 1/8 of a square (around 500 µOhms for 35 µm copper). So expect this "short to have about 60 µohms.
It would get much better if one would cut one of the 2 links connecting the drive and sense pairs, so that much less current would take a longer way.
Attached is a picture with the main current path draw in red, the unwanted part in orange and the area to cut in yellow.
With the cut the short is no longer turnable at will. So it is not a 4 way short. There are also designs for a 4 way short, but these are more complicated. This could be 3 contacts to the corners of a regular triangle and than the 4 the contact to the center.
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The 4 wire short from Ebay is not even a good one: the connection relies on the symmetry to be really 0 ohms in the 4 wire measurement. The conntectos look like they are made from a comboination of different metals. A simple DIY one bend from some 20 cm of 1.5 mm² bare copper wire is likely better.
Would you mind explaining what you mean by relying on symmetry to be 0ohms? I don't quite understand...
As for the composition of the connectors, they appear to be gold-plated copper or brass. I can also confirm that at 6.5 digits, the connector provides a very repeatable short.
Also see Fluke 884X 4-Wire Short.
Best
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easiest way I found to reproduce this: just switch on the meter, set to DCV (auto), press dual, then DCI, the meter clicks and hangs.
Confirmed on my SDM3045X (newest firmware).
@tautech
Any news about this from Siglent?
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The 4 wire short from Ebay is not even a good one: the connection relies on the symmetry to be really 0 ohms in the 4 wire measurement. The conntectos look like they are made from a comboination of different metals. A simple DIY one bend from some 20 cm of 1.5 mm² bare copper wire is likely better.
Would you mind explaining what you mean by relying on symmetry to be 0ohms? I don't quite understand...
As for the composition of the connectors, they appear to be gold-plated copper or brass. I can also confirm that at 6.5 digits, the connector provides a very repeatable short.
Remember an old Fluke App Note about shorts, both voltage and resistance. Recall the voltage short is best served by a simple short thin copper wire with low thermal mass which quickly achieves thermal equilibrium with the DMM terminals and a resistance short is a more involved heavier/wider copper fixture like shown with the Fluke 884X.
The voltage short is simple in concept but we've found it somewhat difficult to get a coiled spring type thin copper wire to make good repeatable contact in the DMM input terminals, finally yielding to the technically less favorable but easier to use #12 copper wire shunted across a dual banana plug.
Best,
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here is my short, and the best type of banana i could find,
and the result is not zero volts :-)
but close, this is 10V range, 100 mains periodes, each measurement takes 3 sec,
and then 100 of them added, 153nV noise
and ups.. a KS DMM, ya you got to have a little bit of other brand toys too
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Kleinstein & mawyatt - thank you both for your responses.
I do agree that for a 4W resistance short the layout is not quite ideal. I would have removed the connection between the two sense terminals and I probably would have used thinner traces between Sense High and Force High as well as Sense Low and Force Low. From a current path perspective this makes the most sense to me.
mawyatt - I am starting to warm up to your suggestion that the design of a resistance short and a voltage short could/should be different to help with thermal equalization. The short I recommended takes quite some time to reach equilibrium...but it does (see image)
I still think that for the SDM series of DMMs - my recommended short certainly appears adequate and may be a quick way for someone to obtain a usable short.
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here is my short, and the best type of banana i could find,
and the result is not zero volts :-)
but close, this is 10V range, 100 mains periodes, each measurement takes 3 sec,
and then 100 of them added, 153nV noise
and ups.. a KS DMM, ya you got to have a little bit of other brand toys too
Have those bananas also, like better than the ones that allow the "cage" to spin. Also use the dual plugs, and use for both 2 and 4 wire shorts, they are convenient but none of these are up to "Metrology" standards.
Best be careful as the "Voltnuts" are now primed to rip me to shreds ???
Best,
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Looking closer at the 4 wire short, it is not even working right when symmetric, it has a principle problem in that the current between the drive terminals will no only flow the shortest way, but also take the long route around, close the the sense side. The crurde estimate is that maybe 1/8 the current would flow the long way and thus one may see a resistance of about 1/8 of a square (around 500 µOhms for 35 µm copper). So expect this "short to have about 60 µohms.
It would get much better if one would cut one of the 2 links connecting the drive and sense pairs, so that much less current would take a longer way.
Attached is a picture with the main current path draw in red, the unwanted part in orange and the area to cut in yellow.
With the cut the short is no longer turnable at will. So it is not a 4 way short. There are also designs for a 4 way short, but these are more complicated. This could be 3 contacts to the corners of a regular triangle and than the 4 the contact to the center.
Whilst that's all technically (academically) correct, with a test current of only 1mA, that 60 µohm short is going to be buried deep into the noise of even a good 6 1/2 digit bench meter. :-DD
Also, I'd like to point out that this seller (kkrasimir.k), unlike his Chinese competitors, does provide a full and comprehensive description of his test plug assemblies :-
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/223470935306 (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/223470935306)
I've added this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223610672208?hash=item34103c1450:g:fv0AAOSwMi5dx-VL (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223610672208?hash=item34103c1450:g:fv0AAOSwMi5dx-VL) to my shopping basket as well as this not so fully described cheap Chinese offering here:- https://tinyurl.com/ycknf6b3 (https://tinyurl.com/ycknf6b3)
I haven't "Pulled the Trigger" just yet. ::) What I'd really like to do is just buy a few sets of those gold plated banana plugs that seller kkrasimir.k is using to mount directly onto 3mm thick solid copper heatsink shims (I'm not entirely convinced that the ones used by the Chinese sellers are as good, quality-wise - but I may well find out in due course ::) ).
I rather think that with a test current of only 1mA, it would be (technically at least) better to keep the sense shorting link isolated from the energising terminal shorting link when testing 4W resistance accuracy/calibration (or at least only tie the commons together if needs be).
If anyone happens to know of a reasonably priced set of quality gold plated 4mm banana plugs, similar to the ones used by kkrasimir.k, I (and I suspect others) would be only too grateful for such information. :)
In the meantime, I'll go in search of these 'fabled gold plated banana plugs' in what I suspect will be yet another hunt for "Unicorn Droppings" / "Hen's Teeth". If I manage to track down any reasonably priced contenders, I shall of course, report my findings back here. :)
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Kleinstein & mawyatt - thank you both for your responses.
I do agree that for a 4W resistance short the layout is not quite ideal. I would have removed the connection between the two sense terminals and I probably would have used thinner traces between Sense High and Force High as well as Sense Low and Force Low. From a current path perspective this makes the most sense to me.
mawyatt - I am starting to warm up to your suggestion that the design of a resistance short and a voltage short could/should be different to help with thermal equalization. The short I recommended takes quite some time to reach equilibrium...but it does (see image)
I still think that for the SDM series of DMMs - my recommended short certainly appears adequate and may be a quick way for someone to obtain a usable short.
Gotta love those old HP/AG34401As! Turn em ON, No Noise, No Fan, wait a couple minutes and you know the reading is right ;D
Best,
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Whilst that's all technically (academically) correct, with a test current of only 1mA, that 60 µohm short is going to be buried deep into the noise of even a good 6 1/2 digit bench meter. :-DD
Think the point was it doesn't cost any more to do this PCB correct in the first place!!
I haven't "Pulled the Trigger" just yet. ::) What I'd really like to do is just buy a few sets of those gold plated banana plugs that seller kkrasimir.k is using to mount directly onto 3mm thick solid copper heatsink shims (I'm not entirely convinced that the ones used by the Chinese sellers are as good, quality-wise - but I may well find out in due course ::) ).
I rather think that with a test current of only 1mA, it would be (technically at least) better to keep the sense shorting link isolated from the energising terminal shorting link when testing 4W resistance accuracy/calibration (or at least only tie the commons together if needs be).
Please track down the mentioned Fluke app note regarding "shorts", recall they even showed how the massive shorting "Plate" doesn't perform as well as a simple yet technically correct short, example is the mentioned Fluke 884X. If one is to roll their own, this would be the concept to clone.
If anyone happens to know of a reasonably priced set of quality gold plated 4mm banana plugs, similar to the ones used by kkrasimir.k, I (and I suspect others) would be only too grateful for such information. :)
In the meantime, I'll go in search of these 'fabled gold plated banana plugs' in what I suspect will be yet another hunt for "Unicorn Droppings" / "Hen's Teeth". If I manage to track down any reasonably priced contenders, I shall of course, report my findings back here. :)
Though we had found such some time ago, until I held up a magnet :P
Good luck with your search , and please do inform if you discover some of these Droppings :)
Best,
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60 µOhms and 1 mA would result 60 nV. this is not much, but given some patience this can be seen, even with a 6 digit meter.
It is not that difficult to improve: cut at one side beween the sense and drive side (e.g. as indicated with yellow) and the residual resistance would go down quite a bit (maybe a factor of 100).
The shorts shown by Mawyatt look reasonable. The thick copper helps to get the connectors close in temperature. Otherwise I did not have good experience with this shape of banana plugs, but this was with normal cables and the same shape may come with different materials.
here is my short, and the best type of banana i could find,
and the result is not zero volts :-)
but close, this is 10V range, 100 mains periodes, each measurement takes 3 sec,
and then 100 of them added, 153nV noise
and ups.. a KS DMM, ya you got to have a little bit of other brand toys too
A 100 PLC auto zero conversion should take 4 seconds in a 50 Hz mains country. Non AZ should be a bit faster, but is obviously not a good choice unless you have a very high impedance source.
153 nV of RMS noise would be quite good for 100 PLC, but not for the average over 100 such readings. Using an average over 100 reading that take 3 or 4 seconds would anyway be very slow to than still measure noise from.
So I don't hink the short is at fault.
For the noise analysis it may be more sensible to record data at 10 PLC (or comparable speed) and than calculate the Allan deviation from this.
The Sigilent meters use a SD ADC with a SINC3 or SINC4 fitler function - at least that is what the ADC supports directly. This filter implies readings that are not mutually independent, but slightly overlapping and this makes it a bit tricky to calculate the noise level. The Allan deviation would still be reasonable comparable for slightly longer times (e.g. > 5 samples time). A poor quality fault would mainly contribute very low frequency variations and this a high Allan deviation for longer times, though such noise can also be intrinsic to the meter.
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Here's a very simple model that shows kinda what Kleinstein is discussing regarding a 4 wire shunt.
Someone with lots of patience can analyze this, but a little intuition goes a long way here.
If the Meter function has a very high resistance and Ry approaches zero which is what a single point would yield. If Rz approaches a very high resistance which is by simple isolation, then all the other resistances don't matter much. This is the concept behind the 4 wire shunt with the 2 Dual Banana Plugs shown above, the only reason for the heavy cross wire is for mechanical support.
Best,
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Mike is right..
This is how original Fluke one looks.
If crosslink was right in the middle it would be ideal, but I guess it doesn't make much difference in practice.
Most important was to ensure that force currents never go into sense branch. If there is some minor (nV level) voltage drop imbalance from force current, it is seen as a common voltage on sense line and therefore suppressed.
That is for 4W resistance. 2W resistance sees one side copper resistance, that will be low enough compared with cables anyways.
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i still have not figured how it select the LO drive to be either 2.5V or 0.5V
and where it is originated from,
I think the top left stuff AGW633 is the 2.5V / 0.5V creator, but have not found the connection needed for this yet,
also i have not found the parts connected to the MAX REF 2.5V other than the two pins on the ADC as shown,
i dont plan to play with 2W or 4W ohm modes.
But a few questions : R4 is 100k !! WHY ??? this will create a demand for AGW1408 and 633 to have impossible low leak,
those parts do affect the voltage signal in 20V mode, when heated
THIS SCHEMATIC IS FAR FROM DONE YET
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@mawyatt
Regarding getting the PCB 'right', I'm going to try bypassing this issue (maybe replacing it with a different issue) by using this bunch of gold plated banana plugs I just ordered from here:-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294120874481?hash=item447af861f1:g:zDYAAOSwF8Zgdrrp (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294120874481?hash=item447af861f1:g:zDYAAOSwF8Zgdrrp)
which look ideal for mounting onto a piece of that 3mm thick copper heatsink spreader plate I mentioned.
I removed the other two items from my shopping basket for now (and hopefully for the foreseeable future if my experiment works out), reducing my expenditure by almost 35 quid. At just £4.89 from a UK seller promising delivery by next Monday, it seemed well worth taking a punt.
They can hardly prove worse than my home made 4mm ex-GPO banana plug shorting link's ~3μV performance. If they do prove to be worse, then we will have all learnt a valuable lesson about these particular fine looking gold plated banana plugs, won't we! :-DD
Having just retested with my home brewed shorting link, the problem seems to be a small temperature difference between the Hi and LO voltage sockets generating different thermocouple voltages between the shorting link's banana plug tips.
Given enough time to regain thermal equilibrium, the voltage drops down to ~ -900nV. Auto-zero just confuses the issue by turning a -2.5mV into a 2.5mV reading or -8mV into a 3mV reading. Obviously a minor re-calibration at the zero end of the scale is being called for. I get less confusing results if I just use 100PLC without auto-zero.
If I reverse the shorting plug, I see a reading of ~-8mV which starts slowly ... er, no, actually this time it very slowly increased to -9.5mV! Time to swap it back round again... Gah! my banana plug shorting link now seems to be acting like a 6mV galvanic cell with just a soupcon of Seebeck effect thrown in for seasoning :palm:
One thing to keep in mind when testing the SDM3065X is, despite its very low tempco at more sane voltage levels, it (and presumably the 3055 to a lesser extent) doesn't take kindly to sudden room temperature transients.
I've been running thermal stress testing of my temperature stabilised Rubidium oscillator project all day. Starting at 19 deg C for the first couple of hours before turning the radiator on (and a 2.5KW room heater for the first half hour) to zoom the temperature up by 5 or 6 degrees before finally deciding, at 27 deg, that enough was enough by shutting the radiator off and flinging my hobby room door wide open to cool down to a less stressful temperature.
Within just ten minutes, that 9.4μV reading you can see in the attached photos I took shortly before, was dancing within less than a μV either side of the zero mark. Talk about becoming familiar with your test instrument's limitations and quirks! :palm:
EDIT: BTW, the object dangling by top left corner of the bench meter is that 3mm thick copper heatsink spreader I'm going to use as a shorting bar (it was actually recovered from the cpu fan I'm using to regulate the LPRO's base plate temperature to within 100mK of 36.1 deg C that can be seen in the next three photos).
For added interest, I've included photos of my Rubidium oscillator project. The ambient temperature readout is about 1 degree low on the actual room temperature. I've had to compensate for about a 2 deg self heating effect which will vanish once the BMP280 module is thermally bonded to a heatsink exposed to the room air in the final build (the thermally isolated over-sized aluminium enclosure I fabricated for the project). At present it doesn't follow room temperature very well but it's enough to compensate for increased cooling rate demands at higher ambient temperatures.
Final note: I reversed the shorting plug and the reading went back up to 9.5μV or so after a few minutes after which I reversed it again and observed it stabilise close to the zero volt mark once again. It seems my shorting plug is not quite conforming to the rules of thermodynamics as I'd naively expected. :( Never mind, perhaps that cheap set of goldplated banana plugs with a copper shorting bar will do better. :-\
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The 100 K R4 looks like it is there to get about the same source resistance for all voltage channels. This would allow to use less zero levels to compensate for the effect of the OPs bias current. I still don't like the 100 K very much, as it would add noise to the 1000 V range.
The 100 K resistor has slightly more noise than the AD8629 amplifier, though less than the ADC without gain.
With the high impedance leakage at the ADG1408 would cause some error. This could be an issue when really hot, but should not be so bad at a more normal temperature.
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@mawyatt
Regarding getting the PCB 'right', I'm going to try bypassing this issue (maybe replacing it with a different issue) by using this bunch of gold plated banana plugs I just ordered from here:-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294120874481?hash=item447af861f1:g:zDYAAOSwF8Zgdrrp (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294120874481?hash=item447af861f1:g:zDYAAOSwF8Zgdrrp)
which look ideal for mounting onto a piece of that 3mm thick copper heatsink spreader plate I mentioned.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but those look exactly like the ones we have from a few years ago. They were not copper but some magnetic metal alloy :P
They aren't that bad though, but don't count on them being a low thermal EMF plug.
Maybe try a simple thin copper wire for a zero volt source, it's a little tricky to get reliable and repeatable contact with the DMM terminals though, recall Fluke even recommended this.
Good luck hunting for those "Unicorn Droppings", they are rare indeed :)
Best,
Edit: BTW our SDM3065X is ~2.3uV offset with ~0.23uV SD, with Auto-Zero OFF the offset doubles.
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@mawyatt
Thanks for offering that information. I keep a small magnet stuck to the side of my desktop PC case ready to test K type plugs and adaptors so that's going to be the first check I'll be doing when those banana plugs arrive.
If they do prove to be a magnetic alloy, my hope is that the 3mm thick copper shorting bar will help flatten the temperature disparity in the sockets a bit more than my present banana plug shorting link can manage. In other words, I'm hoping to see at least some improvement.
In any case, they're likely to be a nicer fit - those ex-GPO banana plugs I used are a very tight fit making it a bit of a struggle to extract them even though I don't fully insert them as far as they could be pushed into the sockets if I were to be foolish enough to "Give it the old college try".
With regard to pushing wires directly into sockets, that's what I did with a 5 metre long K type thermocouple wire I'd converted into an experimental thermocouple. I'd simply folded the conveniently springy wire ends back to form a contact spring and this worked very well - little thermal mass and no inappropriate alloy material of a cheap banana plug connector to displace the "cold end" away from the meter's isothermal reference connection at the Hi and LO socket's internal connections running some 3K above room ambient.
I've got a bunch of miniature K type plugs and adaptors where the use of Chromel and Alumel prongs has been specifically stated, ambling their way to me from China. Needless to say, when they do finally arrive, they'll be subjected to the magnet test and, for good measure, a soldering iron test.
Assuming they prove to be as described, I'll be able to upgrade my cheap thermocouples' miniature K type plugs for use with the SDM3065X via a proper chromel/alumel K to banana plug adaptor. In the meantime, I've got the use of a zero cost alternative to the expense of 'made for purpose' K type plugs and adaptors to tide me over. :)
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to Kleinstein : YES you are right, good seen,
all 3 selected voltage inputs, do look the same, about 100k when see from U406 pin3,
BUT : all ranges uses a separate calibration file, where both offset and gain is handled,
also i dont see any over/under voltage protection clamp.
I think the high series resistance into the first ADG1408, will clamp to 15V
and then again R6 into ADG633 and U406 serve as the last stage of voltage protection,
in that case R4, could be 5k1 since the 10Meg caddock serve fine as input protection,
and since the 20V and 200V ranges are the most important, i like to try improving the temperature drift caused by the mux parts
i have not yet investigated if the analog switch / mux ic's temperature sensitivity,
is due to leak, or changes in on-resistance
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Still having seprate calibration files make sense, but the idea of getting the same offset may still have been an idea in the HW design phase. Sw could have changed later. A lower values for R4 may improve the noise in the 1000 V range a little, but not very much as there are also other noise sources:
R4 (100K) ~ 41 nV/sqrt(Hz)
AD7190 with gain 8 ~ 42 nV/sqrt(Hz) (SINC3 with 1.5 SPS should be around 0.5 Hz noise bandwidth)
AD8629 ~ 22 nV/sqrt(Hz) (2 x)
+ some current noise (the 5 fA/sqrt(Hz) number in the DS looks too good to be true, I would guess more like 100 fA/sqrt(Hz)) * 110 K
10 K from the divider output impedance ~ 12 nV/sqrt(Hz)
For the 20 V range the divider output impedance is around 100 K and not much to change here.
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i am not even thinking on that noise from the resistance,
but the variable leak / or on resistance, in ADG parts,
if R4 is much lower, the leak change will affect much less, at least that is my teory, now i need to prove it by real science experiments :-)
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The leakage current with the CMOS mux chips is usually quite low, often in the 10 pA or below range, though getiing higher with temperature.
So R4 would contribute a little to temperature drift / offset in the 1000 V range. 100 pA*100 K would be 10 µV and after a gain of 1000 this would be 10 mV (for the 1000 V range). So on the display one would hardly see this. To get 100 pA of leakage it may already need a rather high temperature and the rate of change would be more like 10 pA/K if really high - corresponding to 1 mV/K for the 1000 V range. So I would not consider the leakage current so be such a problem.
In the 20 / 200 V range most of the resistance is from the divider and notmuch to change there.
A variable on resistance is no an issue in the shown circuit, as the on_resistance is still low.
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remember i am not talking about what is visible on the display,
if that was the case, there would not be a reason to play with any of this :-)
it is important to repeat that statement..
see this : leak vs temperature ADG1408 datasheet snip inserted,
lets say the pcb near this part changes temperature from 30 to 32, just a very littly during the day,
and the source resistance is 100k
and in the 20V range, full scale is 200mV differential
now we see where the details i talk about, is comming from,
it is just under last digit visible :-) but i like it to be modified to be much better.. that is what i play with
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this night latest schematic update :-)
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R4 (100K) would not effect the 20 /200 V range, but only the 1000 V range. The 20 and 200 V range still see near 100 K of source impedance, but there is not much that can be done about this as this comes from the divider.
The ADG1408 is a odd choice in that circuit. It is rather low resistance (4 ohms) and thus higher leakage than the more logical choice ADG1208 or DG508.
I had not considered such a high leakage part - in this case the leakage would indeed be a possibly critical point.
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thanks a lot Kleinstein, you are right, i was wrong :-) R4 is 1kv range
I updated the schematic, and also added a note about what lines are 20/200V range, and 1000V range,
now i will be less confused in the future :-)
Seems impossible to trace down the connection to U405 pin5 ??
i am trying to understand the origin of the 2.5V and 0.5V signal needed for the LO drive,
it must be via some sort of "selector" and it is not exactly 2.5000 as the ref is, but it does not matter what the LO drive it,
since it is also measured, in differential, see right side of U406,
U405 is the LO driver, both opamps are in parallel via two 49R9 resistors,
U400 ?? what is that doing ? no clue yet :-)
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The low half of U400 (oins 1,2,3) looks like a low pass filter for the input signal that can be switched on/off. This filter may also be part of the reason to have the 100 K for R4, as this resistor would be part of the filter. It is still odd to have a AZ OP for this purpose. A more normal JFET based OP would have been the more logical choice.
The upper half of U400 is still unclear. If R32 goes to some signal source like a shunt, this could be some analog amplifiaction.
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all 2.5V LO noted nets, are confirmed to be hardwired to the LO terminal
but the lead on U400 as selecable filter might be a good clue,
this meter do have fast / slow setting, all i need to do it is change settings, while monitoring the A0 A1 A2 signals on ADG633
EDIT : A0 is HI, when Filter is on, and A0 is LO when filter is Off
I did not plan to write the entire schematic, 2W and 4W ohm, is not of big interest right now (for me at least)
if any one else like to join and draw that part, feel free to say so :-)
ALSO there is a TL072 performing the current resistor amplification,
just under that, a bridge rectifier, funny construction, i assume it is so the DC current always go the same way ?
or is it only for overload protection ? i did not trace that part, it would require the pcb to be removed,
that was also not my plan.
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my brand new replacement SDM3055 showed up a few days ago,
I did power it on for 2 days, before starting to test it,
but of course it is still in it very erly days of burn in,
each horizontal line in the chart = one last digit on the screen (more fair way to setup the chart)
so as expected, the noise is way under, what is visible on the screen readout,
so far i am super happy, let this test run a few days.
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The big bridge rectifier for the amps part should be for the protection (as 2 pairs of anti parallel diodes), to clamp the voltage over the shunts.
The TL072 would no be good enough for the main amplification of the DC signal, it may still be used for an TIA for the very low currents and for an auxiliary buffer to reduce the leakage from the rectifier (may no be used with a 5.5 digit meter, especially if the low currents would be with a TIA instead of a simple shunt). From the firmware theread I remember that there may very well be a TIA used for the lowest currents. The datasheet woth low burden for the lowest ranges also supports this. I still dont' see an extra relay (or MOSFET) for the range switching.
The 2 V signal from AIN4 might very well to the ohms current source circuit (a + input at U501).
Looking at when A2 signal of the ADG633 changes would give a hint for what the upper half of U400 is used.
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correct A2 is DCI 200uA and 2mA range
i have updated the schematic this ADG633 selector bits
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bottom side of the board picture.
correct AC pins and DC pins of the bridge rectifier are connected together,
so it will protect the two sense resistors 1Ohm and 10mOhm
if your circuit draw high inrush
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new top pcb picture,
I will try to make a few more pictures, but this system will not accept large pictures
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new technical challenge : i took a lot of super good pictures of SDM3055 PCB,
using a digital microscope, with a lot of overlap,
now is the challenge to stitch them together into one total picture, ALL programs i found and tried, dont work,
anyone of you found a program that can work in flat mode ?
the total mosaik is about 200 pictures, each is 4032 x 3024,
solving this challenge will let us create amazing details of pcb pictures.
link to 3 x 3 test pictures, so you can test your stitch program is working
webx.dk/siglent
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anyone of you found a program that can work in flat mode ?
Lightroom works fairly well.
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great thanks, this looks amazing, all done automatic ?
ultra easy ?
can a noob do it ?
maybe you like to help ?
i could give you access to all files, 600MB :-)
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PS choked on our larger stitching attempts. Ended up using PTGui for our chip imaging stitching, with Zerene to stack the images, and PTGui to stitch them together. One final chip image rendering was a massive ~30,000 by 20,000 pixels from 19 individual tiles, each tile composed from 200~400 individual 36MP images (total of ~200GP) from a complex custom semiautomated setup, custom lens assembly and Nikon D850.
This is professional level panorama stitching software and takes a little time to learn but very powerful. PTGui uses a unique method which employs selectable "points" which are blended and if done properly almost undetectable stitch, even zoomed at the pixel level.
Best,
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great thanks, this looks amazing, all done automatic ?
ultra easy ?
can a noob do it ?
maybe you like to help ?
i could give you access to all files, 600MB :-)
Yes very easy. Didnt change any settings. All automatic. I just reduced the jpg quality to get a file size that im allowed to upload here.
Send me a pm with a file link and i can try it with the 600mb
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files away, ha ha i cant wait to see the final result :-)
191 files = 725MBytes
ok halve of one picture is also the other halve on the two next pictures, and so on,
so in reality the final will be halve on each side = quater the size of 725MB is 181MB, in jpeg, darn it.. crasy..
lets see we can maybe size reduce ?
here is picture number 1002,
original 100% size is 4032 x 3024 pixels,
to show the size of material, and if size down is possible, see the 4 attached micro snips of the same picture,
showing 100%, 75% 50% and 30% scaled
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Watch out, you are treading very close to the chip imaging rabbit hole ::)
We fell in way back in ~2000, and were just able to get back out (truth is, we haven't designed a new chip since retiring)!!
Best,
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From the Spec sheet:
Continuity test specifications for the SDM3045X, SDM3055, and SDM3065X
Test Current Source: 1mA
Max Resolution: 0.01Ω
Input Protection: 1000V Input Protection
Open-circuit Voltage: <8V
Beep Threshold (short-circuit resistance): from 0 Ω to 2000 Ω
i like the feature beeper on/off and then 3 levels of beep,
ok so far so good, but what is the idea about the relay ??
every time you short the wires, a relay go click
this sounds a bit odd ?
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The DMM has the problem, that voltage higher than some 2.5 V can not be measured directly and need the relay to connect the divider. For the intermediate values resistos it can get more accurate when the divider is not connected. So it may be the relay disconnecting the divider.
I would prefer the divider always on in continuity mode / diode mode. Those modes don't really need linearity and high accuracy.
This leaves the highest ohms mode (e.g. > 20 M) case that may use the 10 M divider in parallel. This point could be common to many meters that use this trick to extrend the measurement range and use a relay to connect the divider. My preferred solution would be an SW option to exculde the highest range from auto-ranging.
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that makes no sense :-) why they made it this way then ?
if you select the Continuity test mode,
why would the user be interested in auto range behind it ?
Continuity test is only used for LOW values, right ?
the spec say from 0-2k
that means anything over 2k is always considered an open..
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Is this a model difference? Or maybe a firmware version difference? On my SDM3065X with current (I think) firmware, there is no relay action in continuity mode. Open->short->open is silent (with the beep turned off).
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The input stage of teh SDM3065 is quite a bit different and also a bit unusual: it looks like the circuit uses a +-15 V supply and they still have 20 V range with high impedance. Chances are high the move the low side relative to the supply, opposite to the high side. In addition the configuration is so that that there is buffer and than a divider before the ADC. With a high Z 20 V range there is no need for relay swiching in ohms mode or at 2 V.
Ideally the 3055 should also get away withput range / relay switching: either limit the voltage to 2 V or keep the 10 M in parallel and accept a slightly higher error - both would be better than relays switching.
One could be lucky and the auto range setting (maybe from ohms or voltage mode) could still effect the behavior.
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OMG.. now i turned on my SDM3055, and pressed the continuity test,
tried all possible things,
NO RELAY CLICKS !!
problem is gone :-) now a challenge : if you own an SDM3055, redo this and see if you get relay clicks when you short the wires,
together with the beep if enabled.
i was not drunk yesterday, you got to believe me..
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OMG.. now i turned on my SDM3055, and pressed the continuity test,
tried all possible things,
NO RELAY CLICKS !!
problem is gone :-) now a challenge : if you own an SDM3055, redo this and see if you get relay clicks when you short the wires,
together with the beep if enabled.
i was not drunk yesterday, you got to believe me..
It is late for that, we know the truth... You already posted the photo .... :-DD
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Is this a model difference? Or maybe a firmware version difference? On my SDM3065X with current (I think) firmware, there is no relay action in continuity mode. Open->short->open is silent (with the beep turned off).
Don't think, check. All SDM models were issued with new firmware 3rd Q last year and it is an important update that ALL owners should install.
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just called one of my buddies, who also just got a brand new SDM3055,
he also confirmed the relay click every time zero ohm, in continuity mode,
the first time this mode was used, it is NOT going back again.
so there was a stuck-bit somewhere :-)
he even said he saw stribes on the screen, then recycled power, and bingo, all solved..
he is not on any yellow pills or triangle marked medicine.
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Is this a model difference? Or maybe a firmware version difference? On my SDM3065X with current (I think) firmware, there is no relay action in continuity mode. Open->short->open is silent (with the beep turned off).
Don't think, check. All SDM models were issued with new firmware 3rd Q last year and it is an important update that ALL owners should install.
I'll check next time I'm at the bench. I remember updating last year, but it might have been to 3.01.01.08R1. There's something urgent in 3.01.01.10?
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Is this a model difference? Or maybe a firmware version difference? On my SDM3065X with current (I think) firmware, there is no relay action in continuity mode. Open->short->open is silent (with the beep turned off).
Don't think, check. All SDM models were issued with new firmware 3rd Q last year and it is an important update that ALL owners should install.
I'll check next time I'm at the bench. I remember updating last year, but it might have been to 3.01.01.08R1. There's something urgent in 3.01.01.10?
Yes, this:
3. Optimize flash R&W design. (boot freeze fix)
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Siglent really listens to its customers.
Really |O, while reported various BUGS now closed as a year ago as:
. SDM3065X as display with annoying pre zero digits, on reboot time graph gone, dBm display range :palm:
. SDG2K modulation fade out on square wave FM/PM modulation using low deviations :palm:
. SSA SW tool no 1Hz RBW selection possible :palm:
all reported to Siglent Germany (OK, the main is now leaving Siglent DE) but my intentions how the issues are processed as :-- :-- :--
Also no incident tracking NR given or even exists .... :-- :--
So, what Siglent channels they used to get a solution within weeks??
Hp
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@mawyatt
The four K-type plugs I'd ordered finally arrived just over a week ago and passed the magnet test. However, I was still waiting for a couple of K-type to Banana plug adaptors to turn up so I could do some meaningful testing. They'd been described as using chromel/alumel pins (just like every other freaking Chinese sellers' identically described and pictured adaptors!). Unfortunately, these did not pass the magnet test and I've rejected them as "Not as described".
Since ebay seems to be awash with these adaptors, other than overpriced Chinese manufactured "Fluke 80A" types, no matter which shopping site you use (Amazon, AliExpress and Ebay), it would seem that these adaptors only exist for use with battery powered handheld meters where the internal to external thermal gradient is not an issue (or at least a vanishingly small one).
Any such chromel/alumel pinned K to Banana adaptors suitable for use with mains powered bench meters, seem to be as rare as rocking horse droppings. If the Chinese sellers are trying to pass theirs off as having chromel/alumel pins when they patently don't, I'd have thought any manufacturers of genuine ones, suitable for use with mains powered bench meters, would be shouting from the rooftops about their own chromel/alumel pins in their product sales sheets. I've searched and searched for other brands of adaptors that claim to use chromel/alumel pins 'till my eyes bled with no success whatsoever. >:( :(
Having dicked around all today with K-type adapters, I thought I'd take your advice about using a stiff solid copper wire shorting link to compare against the results I was getting out of those gold plated banana plugs (which btw, have magnetic pins just like the ones you'd tried).
Interestingly, the thick solid wire copper shorting link (AWG 10) gave, afaict, the exact same -4uV result as my banana plugged shorting bar. In all cases, I have to allow a few minutes each time I reverse or swap between the shorting bar or copper wire link to allow the temperature gradients to stabilise. I'm using 100plc without auto-zero. I don't have any monitoring software installed to record and process the data so I'm simply observing the meter's display.
I estimate that the results between the gold plated banana plugs on a 3mm thick copper shorting bar and my U shaped AWG 10 solid copper wire shorting link are within 100nV of each other. IOW, those gold plated banana plugs on a copper shorting bar seem to be doing as a good a job as you can hope to get (that is until the plating wears through to the base metal one one of the pins ::)).
The main issue in regard of detecting a zero volt state seems to be that of the Seebeck effect due to the 3 deg internal to external thermal gradients creating a less than perfect isothermal condition between the LO and HI banana sockets.
Obviously, this 3 deg difference is more problematical when using K-Type thermocouples with banana adaptors not designed to maintain continuity of the chromel/alumel conductors deep into the sockets, displacing the isothermal connection away from where the reference temperature is actually being monitored. A proper chromel/alumel adaptor would eliminate most of this error but they only seem to exist in fiction. >:(
On quiet reflection, I think my only chance of obtaining a K to Banana plug adaptor using chromel/alumel pins might be the bench meter manufacturers themselves being mindful of this problem and offering their own custom adaptors at a premium price. |O
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Seems much of the eBay, Amazon and AliExpress banana adapters/plugs are bogus, and not copper. Not sure what the "gold" plating is on the ones we have, but doesn't take long to wear thru!! Not a fan of the "spindle" type plugs either, tend to give erratic contact, whereas the "bladed" types provide a more uniform contact.
If you are getting good results with your voltage short compared to a copper wire voltage short that's good, then you know you have a good reference!! However, a voltage short and 4 wire resistance short are not the same, the 4 wire short must support a measurement current and the actual voltage sense positions are important, thus understanding the current path in the short and directing it to give the best result. Having a high thermal mass is both good and bad, good as less influenced by thermal environment perturbations, bad as takes longer to thermal stabilize.
Good temperature measurements are tricky, we have a bunch of K type thermocouples and a bunch of thermistors, and even a thermal imager to help. The thermal imager has another parameter (emissitivity) to consider for accurate measurements. Our bench DMMS are fixed and have limited physical range, the imager is portable, and we have a portable UT320D for quick differential measurements (handy for airflow effects).
Best,
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The metals in the adater plugs not necessary have to be Alumel / Chromel material. It would be OK to have a different alloy, as long as the thermal EMF is close in around room temperature. This is also the difference between extension wire and proper thermocouples: the extension alloys only have to be close for close to room temperature or a possibly larger specified temperature range.
So the magnet test is not 100% proof the parts are bad.
The simple passibe adapter are usually not that good anyway, as the temperature sensor is still in the DMM. So they don't really solve the problem.
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Seems much of the eBay, Amazon and AliExpress banana adapters/plugs are bogus, and not copper. Not sure what the "gold" plating is on the ones we have, but doesn't take long to wear thru!! Not a fan of the "spindle" type plugs either, tend to give erratic contact, whereas the "bladed" types provide a more uniform contact.
Same here with my "gold plated" plugs but, wear issue aside, as long as the alloys used are the same for both prongs, it shouldn't matter as far as thermoelectric effects are concerned, especially if the sockets remain within a fraction of a degree of each other as appears to be the case with the SDM3065X (even better of course, when the sockets remain with a fraction of a degree of ambient in the case of battery powered hand held meters).
I don't recall seeing any "spindle" type plugs unless you mean the type used with cheap K type thermocouples, apropos of which I have two such which, aside from the error of the thermocouples themselves, seem to offer the minimum of socket to thermocouple wire temperature differential error. I can see just over a 1K drop over a couple of minutes after plugging these into the SDG3065X from stone cold (room ambient) as the heat of the socket spreads to the thermocouple wire connection deep within their red and black plastic shrouds.
Since the socket temperature as reported by the SDG3065X's isothermal temperature sensor is typically 3K higher than ambient (it's at the mercy of variations in air temperature thanks to the steady forced ventilation from its mercifully quiet cooling fan), that still leaves almost another 2K of error to contend with. :(
If you are getting good results with your voltage short compared to a copper wire voltage short that's good, then you know you have a good reference!! However, a voltage short and 4 wire resistance short are not the same, the 4 wire short must support a measurement current and the actual voltage sense positions are important, thus understanding the current path in the short and directing it to give the best result. Having a high thermal mass is both good and bad, good as less influenced by thermal environment perturbations, bad as takes longer to thermal stabilize.
Both the "Gold plated" banana plug shorting bar and the simple copper wire shorting link are equally good (or bad). The -4uV error seems to be a "Zero volt calibration error" which I can live with for the time being.
As far as K type thermocouple readings are concerned, that equates to a mere 0.1K error and I'm more interested in voltage levels in the 1 to 19 volt range where consistent and thermally stable readings are of greater importance rather than absolute accuracy. If I need to measure micro-volt values, it's not a great problem to subtract out the -4uV from my readings. Besides which, when you're so close to the zero volt end of even the 200mV scale, readings below 10uV are going to suffer uncertainties of several percent anyway.
Regarding the merits or otherwise of high thermal mass/inertia, I'm entirely with you on that one. :( Trying to get a handle on "room temperature" is rather like holding onto a lively Eel with well greased up hands! :o The best you can do is let the room cool down overnight and reach a reasonably stable equilibrium (and don't turn any heating on - suffer for your hobby!)
Good temperature measurements are tricky, we have a bunch of K type thermocouples and a bunch of thermistors, and even a thermal imager to help. The thermal imager has another parameter (emissitivity) to consider for accurate measurements. Our bench DMMS are fixed and have limited physical range, the imager is portable, and we have a portable UT320D for quick differential measurements (handy for airflow effects).
Best,
I have an IR thermometer which surprisingly, gives readings within +0.1K of the cheap Atech in the attached images (it reads in increments of 0.2k). All bar the final image, as you can see from the time on the more expensive IT Works 'weather station' display, were recorded around 3pm, about four hours earlier than the final image.
The room temperature had dropped overnight from its rather toasty centrally heated 24 deg C value and the heating was left shut off for the day. This is the only condition where both the cheap and the expensive 'weather stations' will agree to within a fraction of a degree of each other (and also it would seem, the thermometer which normally hangs on the bay window wall where it usually reads two or three degrees lower).
The other inside/outside clock/thermometer is located on my workbench shelf, the other side of the room and the only thing of merit it can boast is having an outside sensor (currently blu-tacked to the alloy heat spreader plate it is sitting on, along with a bunch of K-type thermocouples) that tracks within 0.1K of the internal temperature readings.
This setup is the closest I have to a calibration reference, based on the "Wisdom of fools" consensus principle. Whilst it seems statistically improbable that they should all show the same error to within 0.2K of each other, this no guarantee that they aren't all off by the same 2 or 3 degrees worth of error. At best, they offer a sanity check as to the most likely truth of the matter until I can get my hands on a properly certified thermometer reference.
However, I have reason to think that the TM-902C is accurately showing its own ambient temperature (the yellow K-type plug is now a shorting link) to with 0.1K and therefore that of the room ambient, with just a mere 1mW of self heating to interfere with this ideal situation, since with my bestest K type thermocouple, it had read within 0.1K of the temperature of melting ice and 99 deg C with the thermocouple dipped into a kettle of boiling tap water at an absolute pressure of 1013mBar.
This is the second of my TM-902C purchases. The first one sported the red on/off push button and the rather annoying 10 or 15 minute auto-shut off feature of the later models. Whilst this one might seem to be a very early model with that slide switch (and no auto-shut off feature) it rather surprisingly, just like the later models, uses a pair of AAA cells in place of the expensive PP3 (9v block battery) and 3,3v LDO as used by the very early models.
Not only have I lucked out in getting one without the annoying and needless time out feature and a reliance on expensive PP3 batteries, I also seem to have lucked out on accuracy - the first one shows a 1.5 deg lower temperature with its input shorted out, so only worth hanging onto as an emergency spare.
Well, after some seven hours of suffering deprivation for the sake of this temperature experiment, I finally decided that not only had I'd seen enough, I'd also had more than enough ::) and turned the radiator back on, along with a 2.5KW heater to zoom the room temperature back to a more comfortable temperature before the CH shuts off for the night.
As a result, I'm now observing a thermometer reaction race. The favourite to win is of course, that cheap Atech now showing 22.3 deg, followed by the IT Works with a creditable 21.3, leaving the TM-902C in third place at 21.2 and the thermometer trailing in last place with a reading of just over 20 degrees.
The in and out readings on the other digital thermometer are now showing 23.1 and 20.8 respectively, just as I'd expected with such a rapid temperature rise. In the time it took to type that, the in temp is now neck and neck with the favourite at 23.5 which seems to be pulling ahead by 0.1 to 0.2 degrees. I could carry on this commentary but I think you've got the picture by now. :)
However, now that all the heating sources have been shut off, I can now report the final results:
The Atech came in first place at 23.9 followed surprisingly by the TM-902C (23.4) then the IT Works (23.1) with the thermometer close behind at 23 and the cheap clock in/out thermometer trailing last with in and out readings respectively of 22.4 and 21.7.
You might think this is all rather frivolous but it does highlight the problems of trying to get accurate room/lab temperature readings whilst it's being actively maintained to a "set temperature" by a heating system (or AC - not 'a thing' in most UK residences).
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The metals in the adater plugs not necessary have to be Alumel / Chromel material. It would be OK to have a different alloy, as long as the thermal EMF is close in around room temperature. This is also the difference between extension wire and proper thermocouples: the extension alloys only have to be close for close to room temperature or a possibly larger specified temperature range.
So the magnet test is not 100% proof the parts are bad.
The simple passibe adapter are usually not that good anyway, as the temperature sensor is still in the DMM. So they don't really solve the problem.
I did read your reply in the "OWON XDM1041 the unknown multimeter..." thread regarding my query as to whether the BKB32 adaptor you have uses chromel/alumel pins (link below for anyone curious about the details)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-xdm1041-the-unknown-multimeter/msg4038901/#msg4038901 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-xdm1041-the-unknown-multimeter/msg4038901/#msg4038901)
Since my question is a more general issue of temperature measurement with K type thermocouples and banana jack adaptors rather than any particular bench DMM, I'll make my reply here.
I agree that the special alloys need not necessarily be the same chromel/alumel combination, just as long as they can approximate the same 41 uV/K differential. However, since those nice cheap mini K type plugs were described as having their pins made from these two alloys (and the pins stamped as such with AL for the negative pin and CH for the positive one) and I could stick a magnet to the negative but not the positive plus the fact that these alloys are obviously ductile out of necessity in order to be drawn through reducing dies in order to turn them into wire, I don't see materials workability being an issue (cost maybe but why seemingly use expensive alloys to make inexpensive mini K type plugs?).
Admittedly, cost may be a more significant factor with the larger lumps being used by the K type to 4mm banana plug adaptors but I'd have thought there'd have to be really dirt cheap alternative alloys available to make such a saving worthwhile. And, after giving the matter some more thought, I think the answer to the absence of such adaptors is simply that no one makes them!
If anyone needs to eliminate such errors with specialised K type to banana plug adaptors to get the most accurate readings possible, they'd be using higher precision kit optimised for measuring thermocouples sensors in general rather than use a general purpose bench meter that offers this as a marketing gimmick feature. In short, there's simply no demand from the lucrative R&D market sector for such adaptors.
That just leaves us hobbyists with no alternative but to DIY our own adaptors out of short lengths of chromel and alumel solid core wires and I already have a plan on how to do this. >:D
By the way, the seller of those cheap Chinese adaptors described as having chromel/alumel pins that I'd purchased that had failed the magnet test and I had requested to return for a full refund, eventually caved in to my insistence on a full refund after initially offering a 30% partial refund and I keep the adaptors, followed by an increased 50% refund which I was mulling over when I got an email from ebay giving me the news that I was being refunded the full amount.
I couldn't find any instructions regarding their return so I assumed the seller, not having received a timely response from me, had gotten scared he'd be penalised for not resolving this dispute before ebay actually steps in and simply refunded me in full without asking for the return of the goods and thus end up bearing their return handling and shipping costs.
I opened one of those adaptors up for a closer look at their construction and it's quite obvious that they're not using different alloys to emulate the chromel/alumel alloy's temperature behaviour. The K socket contacts are brass soldered with a short copper wire strap to their corresponding chrome plated banana pin which both showed just the barest hint of attraction to my test magnet at their soldered joint ends.
Those adaptor plugs as they stand, are of little use to me but I think I can convert them into what they'd been originally described as with some lengths of chromel and alumel solid core wire. >:D
If I do manage to get around to it and succeed in making a passably useful adaptor, I'll post details of this mini-project. I'll be repurposing those plastic shells for this project but I've no doubt anyone with access to a 3D printer can rustle up their own easily enough rather than go to the expense of gutting one of these Chinese adaptors.
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Hi Fellas, I just picked up an SDM3045X, and there are a few absolutely ridiculous issues I have with it already. do I have a dud, or is this meter really designed this way?
1) power on last settings doesn't work AT ALL. no matter how long I leave it, every single setting is defaulted, which is EXTREMELY annoying for things like display/trend, which is cumbersome to set the vertical scale on.
2)if I disable the beeper in DIODE MODE, it disables the beeper in continuity mode. WHY ARE THESE LINKED? 99.999% of the time you are in continuity mode, you are going to want the beeper on, and 99% of the time you are in diode mode, you are not going to want your meter beeping constantly.
3) the bar meter is completely pointless; it never refreshes faster than the displayed numerical readout in bar mode. in numerical mode, it reads out at light speed @ FAST setting, but when you switch to bar mode, FAST setting displays 3-5FPS. the entire point of bar mode is so you can visualize data that is refreshing too fast to be legible numerically, but it doesn't even refresh fast enough in bar mode to do this, making it COMPLETELY POINTLESS. it's like someone who has never used a meter before wrote this software and checked something off on a box without asking *why* this feature exists in teh first place.
5) now this one might just be the nature of higher end meters, but 2wire continuity outputs up to 6.5V. I am guessing that @ 1mA that wouldn't damage anything, but I don't exactly feel comfortable sending 6.5v down a 3v3 data line until someone says "this is fine". like, yeah, I know this is a meter and literally designed for this sort of thing, but it is already failing so hard at doing other normal meter things that I'm second guessing it. my UT181A does this @ 3v3 for 600ohm range, 1.2v for the 6k range, and lower for the rest.
aside from these issues, I really like this meter. people complain about the continuity beeper not latching, but it is extremely fast (with different probes). 2w resistance setting is wonderfully fast, the physical footprint and fanless design is perfect for my small lab, the screen is wonderful, it slots perfectly on top of my DP832, etc. but power on last setting not working AT ALL makes this meter more of a nuance to use than it's worth.
tell me I have a dud, or I am doing something wrong here please, because this meter is otherwise perfect for my needs.,
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Long time guest lurker :popcorn:, 1st post today! :-+
I couldn't find an answer in the Forum or in the Manual, hopefully this is not a duplicate.
Is there a known time or sample limitation on the SDM 3055 when saving the Trend Chart?
I was trying to save 16 hours worth of data from the Trend Chart to a CSV file and only got a 100kb file with the last 10,000 samples.
edit: I suppose Utility/Store Settings/.CSV doesn't not actually storing the Trend Chart, but it seems that the SDM 3055 wouldn't keep more than 10,000 samples?
If that's a limit, would Acquire be a better option if setting the Trig to Auto, Delay to 5 seconds and 1 Sample per Trigger?
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The vertical scaling on the graph mode is a setting I would not expect to be saved across power off. This should be more for settings like the beeper off, fast / slow mode and AC/DC voltage reading.
The relatively high test voltage in diode and resistance more is common with higher grade meters. 6.5 V and 1 mA should not damage many parts, though the 6.5 V could be borderline for RF and low noise BJTs as reverse base enitter voltage to get extra noise.
The bar graph mode is a bit useless in most cases, especially if you have a graphing mode.
Of cause, there is a limit to the number of samples stored. Getting the last 10000 samples sound plausible. AFAIR there were SW versions that did a different thing, decimating the older data in an odd way to make room for new ones. For long time logging one may have to directly write the data to USB and not do that afterwords.
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just double checked by changing every single setting (range, speed, etc) up 1 setting from default in all modes (dcv/dci/aci/acv.etc), waited 10 minutes, turned off and turned back on again. *every single setting* is defaulted. I could live with only some settings being stored, but I use my meter in a regular way so I will have to basically re program it from scratch every time I get to the shop. super not-idel.
good to know the 6.5v isn't a problem though.
is the abysmal bar mode refresh rate something that I will also have to deal with in a brand name? I just assumed that since my $200 unitrend did this perfectly, any proper bench meter would as well. I was originally going to grab a 34460A but this was an attractive option for half the price with next day amazon prime shipping, and the stupid thing would be perfect if it weren't for this deal-breaking collection of foibles, but I don't want something sitting oh my bench that is just going to constantly annoy me.
for example, I currently have the meter hooked up to a POE+ port beaconing a 12V pulses at about .7hz with the meter set to 60v range, in TREND mode, it picks the spikes up perfectly, displayong a constant, uniform series of spikes. if I switch it to bar meter mode, no matter what speed setting I pick, it only picks up maybe 1/20 spikes, and is functionally unable to be useful in this test. my UT181A's bar graph displays these peaks instantly and precisely. my dollar store aneng 9999s (hilarious, silly thing) picks the peaks up around 8-9V, which is short, but still drastically out performs the SDM3045 at any speed.
is even matching the performance of a talking bluetooth speaker too much to ask of what is being sold as a professional instrument?
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The SDM3045 version firmware seems to be a bit behind and not updated very often. In china essentially the same HW seems to be sold as SDM3055E.
I kind of wonder why they do this extra 4.5 digit FW version at all if they have so much trouble with it.
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It's customary when reporting bugs to state the firmware version.
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my bad, it does this on V5.01.01.07R1 and it did it on V5.01.01.06R1
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Of cause, there is a limit to the number of samples stored. Getting the last 10000 samples sound plausible. AFAIR there were SW versions that did a different thing, decimating the older data in an odd way to make room for new ones. For long time logging one may have to directly write the data to USB and not do that afterwords.
I did try to use the Acquire function, settings as follow (FW 1.01.01.25):
- Trigger Source: Auto
- Delay: Manual set to 1 second
- Sample/Trigger set to 1
- Save Reading / U-disk Record
I was able to generate a much larger file (2mb) in the USB Drive over a 2h test and in the file I also get the Mode (VDC in my case), the Time (relative) and the Voltage value, which is better than the Export Data method.
To my surprise the Data seems updated every 0.2s instead of the expected 1s set in the Delay.
No big deal, I'll give a real try overnight and see if I can collect the data over 12h.
Mode Time(s) Value
DCV 0.063634999 -0.000340
DCV 0.263646007 -0.000339
DCV 0.463665009 -0.000329
DCV 0.663721979 -0.000326
DCV 0.863771021 -0.000331
DCV 1.073179007 -0.000333
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Using Acquire/ to USB worked pretty well, ended up with 7Mb CSV file / 275,000 measure samples, one every 0.2s.
I'm not sure why it doesn't store at the samples at same rate as the trigger delay is set but that worked for me in the end.
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could somebody with a 3055 be a sweetheart and let me know if the BAR METER display mode, at FAST setting in DCV mode, 60V manual, refreshes around 3-4 times a second, or if it functions like a proper bar meter does? if it does, I'm going to send this 3045 back to the farm and grab the 3055, because I am quite in love with most other aspects of this meter
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SDM3055, 20V manual (there is no 60V), DCV, Fast mode: refreshes about 3-4 times per second indeed in bar mode. The other display modes (number, graph, histo) are significantly faster.
Depends what you want to do with the bar mode, but could histo, graph or fail/pass (math/limits) work for you?
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hmm, well that's a bummer, I'm just so used to having a bar at the bottom of my meter since all my other cheap meters have it too. it's mind boggling that bar mode slows it down so much, but at least the trend mode works well. I'd be willing to spend a few $$$ to fix the bar mode (heck, and unlink the beep mode of continuity/diode mode), but if this is what I'm stuck with, I'll live with its excentricities. thanks for the help, fellas!
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I wonder if this: https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141078/siglent-sdm3065x-6-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter (https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141078/siglent-sdm3065x-6-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter) is legit e-shop?!?
They are delivering 4.5 digit DMM for 6.5 digit DMM price :palm:
---Copy-paste---------
Accessoires Included:
1 x Siglent SDM3045X Multimeter
1 x USB Cable
1 x Multimeter probes
1 x Power Cord
1 x Quick Start Guide
------------
Edit: Well then again this one seems to be deal of of the month: https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141054/siglent-sdm3045x-4-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter. (https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141054/siglent-sdm3045x-4-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter.)
.. vice versa lol
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you need to add VAT, or order to your company
that price looks like it is ex vat
and by the way, price looks normal to me
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I wonder if this: https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141078/siglent-sdm3065x-6-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter (https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141078/siglent-sdm3065x-6-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter) is legit e-shop?!?
They are delivering 4.5 digit DMM for 6.5 digit DMM price :palm:
---Copy-paste---------
Accessoires Included:
1 x Siglent SDM3045X Multimeter
1 x USB Cable
1 x Multimeter probes
1 x Power Cord
1 x Quick Start Guide
------------
Edit: Well then again this one seems to be deal of of the month: https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141054/siglent-sdm3045x-4-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter. (https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141054/siglent-sdm3045x-4-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter.)
.. vice versa lol
Those are prices without VAT.
www.siglenteu.com (http://www.siglenteu.com) is official Siglent EU site. If you go there you will see that is recommended retail end user price without VAT.
siglent.EU is one of Siglent's authorized dealers. There were some reports here on the blog of less than perfect communication with customers, but generally would deliver the product.
Never purchased from them personally.
There are many other authorized reselers like Batronix, Welectron, Batterfly, for instance, in no particular order. No affiliation with these three, just a customer and all 3 did good job on several occasions.
So there are many choices.
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Look closely at those listings. A simple copy/paste error.
The one for the SDM3045X https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141054/siglent-sdm3045x-4-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter (https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141054/siglent-sdm3045x-4-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter)
Accessoires Included: 1 x Siglent SDM3065X Multimeter
The one for the SDM3065X https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141078/siglent-sdm3065x-6-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter (https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141078/siglent-sdm3065x-6-1-2-digits-dual-display-digital-multimeter)
Accessoires Included: 1 x Siglent SDM3045X Multimeter
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I guess my slightly sarcastic post wasn't clear enough.
It's not about price. Look at included accessories list. SDM3065X page says that you will get 3045x model and SDM3045X product page suggest that you will get 3065X model.
I left feedback message for them, hopefully they will fix it.
I'm actually about to buy SDM3055 model because with additional 4% EU bank transfer discount they have the best price atm
Edit: Nevermind it looks like Welectron has better price. Thanks 2N3055 for hint :-+
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I'm tossing around the possibility of buying an SDM3045X or SDM3055 in a few weeks. I've read a few threads around here, but I haven't really come across a good summary of the differences. As I understand, the basic difference is the extra digit, higher count, and better components (including precision divider) on the 3055. 3055 has a fan whereas 3045X does not. Are there other relevant differences?
How is the 3045X firmware compared to the 3055? Is it receiving the same level of updates and are bugs fixed in a timely manner?
I read about an "annoying relay click" problem on the 3045X. Has that been fixed? Does the same problem exist on the 3055?
I also read that the 3045X can be reflashed to a 3055X-E by patching the firmware. What are the advantages of this? I haven't found an English datasheet to compare the 3045X and the 3055X-E, but from the context it in the other threads, it sounds like it might update the ranges to more convenient/traditional levels (200mV, 2V, ...).
Thanks,
Scott
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I'm tossing around the possibility of buying an SDM3045X or SDM3055 in a few weeks. I've read a few threads around here, but I haven't really come across a good summary of the differences. As I understand, the basic difference is the extra digit, higher count, and better components (including precision divider) on the 3055. 3055 has a fan whereas 3045X does not. Are there other relevant differences?
How is the 3045X firmware compared to the 3055? Is it receiving the same level of updates and are bugs fixed in a timely manner?
I read about an "annoying relay click" problem on the 3045X. Has that been fixed? Does the same problem exist on the 3055?
I also read that the 3045X can be reflashed to a 3055X-E by patching the firmware. What are the advantages of this? I haven't found an English datasheet to compare the 3045X and the 3055X-E, but from the context it in the other threads, it sounds like it might update the ranges to more convenient/traditional levels (200mV, 2V, ...).
Thanks,
Scott
Models in order of release, SDM3055, 3045X and last 3065X with 3055 release date preceding Siglents move to adding X to their later instrument ranges and therefore was never given an X but bumpers were updated to match the later X models.
SDM3055X-E has never been a western market model so English datasheets are nonexistent and the relay range move is in the same measurement range as 3055 and 3065X whereas for 3045X it's in the middle of a range that is common for a large # of measurements so yes the 3055X-E cross flash aligns 3045X ranges with the more traditional 200mV/2V/20V ranges.
FW versions are reasonably aligned and all models had an update August/Sept last year.
All 3 models use different Vref's and there are a few differences in their feature sets that you need hunt out in datasheets and manuals.
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SDM3055X-E has never been a western market model so English datasheets are nonexistent and the relay range move is in the same measurement range as 3055 and 3065X whereas for 3045X it's in the middle of a range that is common for a large # of measurements so yes the 3055X-E cross flash aligns 3045X ranges with the more traditional 200mV/2V/20V ranges.
Okay, I think I'm starting to understand what happened. Someone took a meter with 200mV/2V/20V/... ranges and for marketing purposes to set is aside from the 3055, tried to make it appear to have 600mV/6V/60V ranges. I can understand the marketing "why" behind this, but it seems like a very poor engineering decision.
The 3045X being "newer" than the 3055, are there any known hardware improvements between hardware revisions? Is there any reason, other than the cost savings and the lack of a fan, why someone would choose a 3045X over a 3055 ?
I don't mind the annoying relays on my 3045x, but I have a growing list of annoyances.
1) the meter will not remember ANY settings at all, so I have to leave it on 24/7 if I don't want it to be essentially factory defaulted.
2) the display doesn't retain settings between functions, so if you want a trend chart on DCV, but a numerical reading on 2wire ohm, you have to manually change it every single time you switch between these
3) after a month or so of use, this pile of junk is locking up now, so I have to reboot the ****ing thing. the UI itself locks up, but the meter still will actually function just in an extremely delayed manner.
Are other people experiencing these problems? or is this believed to be just one example of a faulty meter? These problems would be assumed to be common to the 3055 as well as the 3045X ?
I suppose I'm used to my Siglent function generator coming up in default mode every time I turn it on, though I use the function generator much less often that I would be using a DMM. I can see how this would be annoying.
If money was no object, I'd plan for a 34461A. But unfortunately money does matter.
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I suppose I'm used to my Siglent function generator coming up in default mode every time I turn it on, though I use the function generator much less often that I would be using a DMM. I can see how this would be annoying.
These are often RTFM issues. I don't know which AWG you have, but on mine I have power-up options in the utility menu for default, last and user. DMMs may have similar features. As far as the other issues stated , I don't want a 'self-driving' instrument that learns about me, I want an easy to drive instrument that I can learn how to use. YMMV.
If money was no object, I'd plan for a 34461A. But unfortunately money does matter.
Unfortunately I don't think the value proposition for Siglent bench DMMs is as great as it is for some of their other products--unless you want a mediocre/OK meter with a scanner card option in which case they are a great deal. Still, if you want 'bench', along with the logging, dual-display and all that sort of thing and you aren't obsessed with accuracy, there's nothing in an A-brand anywhere near the price point. If it were me in your shoes, I'd probably just buy the SDM3045X and hack it. The fake range thing would be quite annoying otherwise.
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When choosing between 3045 and 3055 I suggest you make sure you understand the implications of the relay switching in/out half way through both the auto and the fixed range. This is not about a trivial noisy click. It is about a very noticeable delay between readings. It is about messing up your data logging. It is about the relay clicking in and the machine pausing every single time that you make a ny and all measurements above 2V. i.e. take probe off the circuit, reading drops to zero, relay clicks off. Put probe back on circuit (5V point) slight ahem, pause, cough, relay click, numbers whizzing around then settles down. Even in the fixed range. This made it the most unpleasant meter I have ever had.
I traded it in for a 3055 (Siglent were helpful) after Siglent confirmed there was nothing that could be done.
Now I have a meter that hangs together properly, seems to have fewer bugs, and that apart from a bit of fan noise, I am now very, very happy with. BTW mine does remember most settings when switched off - i.e. it comes up in current mode when I switch it off in current mode etc. The 3045 didn't. I bought a voltage reference, and 30 seconds from pressing power I havev a rock steady reading. All digits. Every time. Can't comment on absolute accuracy but it sure as heck looks bang on for repeatability.
Having used both, I also appreciate the extra digit and whilst I can't be sure, the thing seems faster. I only went for the 3045 in the first place becasue I knew there was no fan. Knowing what I know now, this is a no brainer. The 3045 is an awful machine.
But I'm not arguing - its a personal choice, and that is just my personal opinion.
Regards
Eloso
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But I'm not arguing - its a personal choice, and that is just my personal opinion.
Thanks. I think I'm convinced that a stock 3045 is not the way to go. A 3045 hacked/reflashed to 3055X-E, maybe.
For a hundred bucks more though, I can have a real 3055, with the only drawback as far as I'm aware at this time being that it has a fan.
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You can change the fan easily.
Original is running on 12V full speed.
It tries to move more air than the punched outlet would allow for, which makes it very noisy.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1473415)
I've swapped in a Sunon, which is more quiet at 12V already. With a 300 Ohm resisor it runs at 7V, which is well within specs 4.5V-12V. It shifts more than enough air and the noise is fine now.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1473409)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1473403)
Of course you loose the warranty. But it's eevblog here after all, isn't it? 8)
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Tech support have informed me beeper volume is already set at max in FW. :(
I have suggested a HW and FW change to increase overall volume and to also make it user adjustable.
In the meantime the VMC out BNC can be set to provide a positive or negative trigger out that may suffice for those wanting to trigger an external beeper circuit as a work-around.
If I get a chance I'll investigate a simple HW mod to increase beeper volume. With luck we only need to change some gain settings. :-\
@tautech Re: SDM3065X DMM
I (continue) to have trouble hearing the continuity tone. The problem is both the frequency and the low volume. I am running the latest firmware = SDM3065X_3.01.01.10. The tone adjustment (only) changes the frequency. I have that set in the middle, which helps, a bit. As I understand from your prior post, the factor sets the tone's volume to its greatest amplitude and that there is no other firmware setting to increase the volume. Is that still true? If so, what do you suggest I do?
- Is there any firmware hack?
- Is there any known DIY internal hardware adaptation? (Yes, I read about using a separate mic/amp/speaker.) If not, has it been determined that a hardware solution is not possible, for some reason? My warranty runs through November/2022, but I would be most willing to build a solution, thereafter. EDIT: As I can not open mine, yet, does anyone know the general layout of the buzzer circuit? Method for creating the frequency, type of speaker, etc.
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Tech support have informed me beeper volume is already set at max in FW. :(
I have suggested a HW and FW change to increase overall volume and to also make it user adjustable.
In the meantime the VMC out BNC can be set to provide a positive or negative trigger out that may suffice for those wanting to trigger an external beeper circuit as a work-around.
If I get a chance I'll investigate a simple HW mod to increase beeper volume. With luck we only need to change some gain settings. :-\
@tautech Re: SDM3065X DMM
I (continue) to have trouble hearing the continuity tone. The problem is both the frequency and the low volume. I am running the latest firmware = SDM3065X_3.01.01.10. The tone adjustment (only) changes the frequency. I have that set in the middle, which helps, a bit. As I understand from your prior post, the factor sets the tone's volume to its greatest amplitude and that there is no other firmware setting to increase the volume. Is that still true? If so, what do you suggest I do?
Consider constructing something using the VMC BNC output.
From the User manual:
The multimeter outputs a low-true pulse from the [VM Comp] connector after every measurement.
While the VMC output seems perfect quick tests with a DMM show ~0.1V between measurements (idle state) and ~0.050V when measurement is taken it might be better to check this with a scope to see what's really going on when it activates.
- Is there any firmware hack?
- Is there any known DIY internal hardware adaptation? (Yes, I read about using a separate mic/amp/speaker.) If not, has it been determined that a hardware solution is not possible, for some reason?
Have a hunt through this thread as Alex may have a solution:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-siglent-sdm3055/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-siglent-sdm3055/)
My warranty runs through November/2022, but I would be most willing to build a solution, thereafter. EDIT: As I can not open mine, yet, does anyone know the general layout of the buzzer circuit? Method for creating the frequency, type of speaker, etc.
Here a pic of the PCB's from a post earlier in this thread where the round black buzzer is bottom right by the red wire.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=362950)
The buzzer is near the RHS ventilation grille and its volume is compromised as the fan is also fitted on this side and if the SDM is fitted within a stack of instruments then another instrument fitted close to it will further impact on buzzer volume. ::)
Just how buzzer volume can be best addressed is an interesting challenge however rather than it be top PCB mounted, under the PCB and with its own enclosure vent/grille should significantly improve buzzer volume.
That would be an interesting mod for SDM owners to experiment with. :popcorn:
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To increase the volume maybe little 3d printed cap with horn for the buzzer? ^-^
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...
Why has what I thought was the thread title changed
from "Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X"
to "Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055"?
It's before the first coffee today morning and I'm confused. :-//
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...
Why has what I thought was the thread title changed
from "Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X"
to "Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055"?
It's before the first coffee today morning and I'm confused. :-//
Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055 was the original thread title way back in 2014 when I started this thread and the only model available at that time however when 3045X and 3065X came along it made sense to have them all together in the one thread.
The original topic URL never changes even after edits to the topic title.
t1d's post captured the original URL somehow and Quoting it only keeps that confusing change going although if we just Reply the topic name should return to the post title.
Nothing to worry about. ;)
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Thanks, tautech, for your reply!
As I don't want to void my warranty, VCM looks like the way to go. However, VCM is outside of my knowledge base. Any tips, for the VCM learning curve? Maybe start with what "VCM" stands for; lol... I can DIY microcontroller circuits. Would that be a good approach? I will be researching VCM, while awaiting your reply... I am not afraid to do my homework.
Alex's thread did not contain anything on my topic.
I was aware of the buzzer (verses speaker.) Does anyone know how it is driven?
I apologize, if I posted on the wrong thread. Yes, I thought that I was on the 3065X et al thread. Is there a separate 3065X thread? Moderator, feel free to move my post.
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Thanks, tautech, for your reply!
As I don't want to void my warranty, VCM looks like the way to go. However, VCM is outside of my knowledge base. Any tips, for the VCM learning curve? Maybe start with what "VCM" stands for; lol... I can DIY microcontroller circuits. Would that be a good approach? I will be researching VCM, while awaiting your reply... I am not afraid to do my homework.
Alex's thread did not contain anything on my topic.
I was aware of the buzzer (verses speaker.) Does anyone know how it is driven?
I apologize, if I posted on the wrong thread. Yes, I thought that I was on the 3065X et al thread. Is there a separate 3065X thread? Moderator, feel free to move my post.
Connect a scope to the VMC BNC and see what's going on when you do a measurement.
We haven't got much to go on about VMC other than what's mentioned in the Acquire section of the user manual.
By all means explore this here and write up your findings in such a way I can add it into the POI list in the OP.
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You posted while I was writing... Here's what I wrote:
=============================================
For clarification, I am a hobbyist and I am still learning. As I am self-taught, there are gaps in my knowledge base.
Okay, VCM = Variable Coded Modulation, I think. Low = True condition. So, hold the MCU pin high, when it goes low, through the VCM connector, have the buzzer buzz? If so, what reverse polarity protection would be needed to protect the VCM.
You mention connecting it to a scope. There is a BCN output. Using a BNC to BNC cable, do I need any sort of termination? What kind of information am I going to see? The VCM voltage going low and any probe bounce? What voltage is the high state of the VCM. I do have an el-cheapo USB logic analyzer (that I have never used.) Should I use that and look for a true communication output? (Not worded well.)
Thanks for your continued help and support!
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No time to investigate today t1d but maybe this evening.
Just a slow pulse from a AWG for a repeatable measurement and into 1 ch of a scope and another channel monitor the VMC output which should corelate with the slow pulse from the AWG.
Nothing hard....just take a step back and have a think about it. ;)
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Okay, VCM = Variable Coded Modulation, I think. Low = True condition.
It is not VCM but VMC.
The BNC output signal is "VM Comp", short for "Volt Meter Complete". It outputs a pulse (usually low) after each completed measurement, which is useful for synchronising measurements between equipment.
In the settings the VM Comp polarity can be inverted. There are no other settings, so I don't see how this can be used to assist with an external continuity buzzer.
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Okay, VCM = Variable Coded Modulation, I think. Low = True condition.
It is not VCM but VMC.
The BNC output signal is "VM Comp", short for "Volt Meter Complete". It outputs a pulse (usually low) after each completed measurement, which is useful for synchronising measurements between equipment.
In the settings the VM Comp polarity can be inverted. There are no other settings, so I don't see how this can be used to assist with an external continuity buzzer.
Thanks, Kean! Thanks for the correction of the term, too.
My investigations confirm your comments. I scoped the VMC output. Yes, it only appears to be a triggering mechanism, having no data.
Test Setup =
1104X-E Scope Probe (x10/DC Coupled/BWL20MHz) connected to VMC Output with a bare BNC Connector.
DMM Probes connected to 3065X DMM.
DMM set for Continuity.
What I found =
The VMC is referenced to ground and outputs a continuous +5V pulse at ~8.5KHz. When I touch the DMM probe tips together and create continuity, the VMC simply skips a pulse. This skipped pulse serves as the VMC's notification that a reading has been taken, via a low voltage state output. To be clear, while the probes have continuing continuity, the VMC continues to output a pulse, but at only one-half the frequency; ~4.7KHz. There was a lot of jitter present, so the frequencies may have been as low as 8KHz and 4KHz. No data is transmitted. Click on image below to enlarge.
Buzzer Application =
I think that the VMC output could easily be used to drive a MCU, to drive a buzzer. The MCU would simply listen for a significant reduction in frequency and then drive the buzzer circuit. However, the question is not if it can be done, but how well it would work in the real world. I agree with you that that seems rather iffy. But, given that the 3065X's continuity response is already known to be painfully slow, maybe a small additional delay would not be noticeable.
The Better Solution =
My personal preference is to wait for the seven months remaining on of my warranty period and then implement a hardware solution. Maybe place the buzzer on the bottom of the PCB, as tautech has suggested... Maybe move the buzzer closer to the front of the unit, via a long twisted-pair of wires. But, I have concern that doing so might spread noise within the case... Maybe change the buzzer type and add some type of amplification... Thoughts and suggestions for a hardware solution are welcome.
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>I have suggested a HW and FW change to increase overall volume and to also make it user adjustable.
Being able to change the frequency is more important than the volume. I have no idea if mine even works, I can't hear it even with my ear against the vent. If it's above about 3500hz, it doesn't exist in my world.
Being able to set it to a thousand or two hertz would be nice. Once you get up in age, high pitch hearing disappears.
WoD
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>I have suggested a HW and FW change to increase overall volume and to also make it user adjustable.
Yes, this dead horse has been beaten by many, for a long time. Best I can tell, the short story is that, yes, Siglent did respond by adding a selection of three frequencies. However, they were not able to increase the actual volume, because it was/is already set to its maximum. It is also well known that the problem is made worse by the location of the buzzer. It is deep within the cabinet and near the fan.
Being able to change the frequency is more important than the volume. I have no idea if mine even works, I can't hear it even with my ear against the vent. If it's above about 3500hz, it doesn't exist in my world.
Being able to set it to a thousand or two hertz would be nice. Once you get up in age, high pitch hearing disappears.
WoD
I am in a similar situation and that is why I was/am investigating solutions. As said, many others have beaten this horse for a long time. I am late to the game. Many others have also said it is a shame that Siglent has not offered a solution for current owners or corrected the flaw in their production of new units. I agree.
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Thoughts and suggestions for a hardware solution are welcome.
Maybe just a 3.5mm 'audio out' jack? And headphones for noisy environments?
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How about this, for a 3065X low beeper volume solution... Setting up a full laptop, via USB, and running EasyDMM is a solution, yes? What about using a Raspberry Pi Pico to build a smaller USB dongle type of solution. I am not much of a coder, myself, but maybe someone could suss out how to just access the EasyDMM beeper signal. Since it is Siglent's problem, I think they should be willing to disclose how to code accessing that one function... The beeper signal in EasyDMM, that is...
Or, Siglent could add a select-able beeper function to the firmware that outputs a USB signal in a common code format. That seems like what Siglent would be more willing to do... And, we could easily DIY a solution with any USB capable MCU... The PIC18F4550 has on-chip USB. The Arduino Uno has on-PCB USB.
Hmm... We really don't need that coded in some USB language, I guess... Just make the USB Data out pin high when there is continuity and have any old MCU monitor Data out pin? As said, this is outside of my knowledge base.
If someone wants to look at the USB Rx/Tx for this application, I would be glad to send you one of my DIY USB2.0 Tappers. It allows you to easily access (tap) and/or break each of the four legs of USB2.0 = +5V, Data-, Data+, GND, free of charge. Requires your commitment and USA/48 address... Your choice of bare board, kit, or assembled.
If that person would also be willing to use a PIC18F4550 (which is the better choice than an Arduino, IMO, for this application) I would be glad to also send you one each of my Sandwich Bread and Lunch Break PIC18F4550 demo boards (Think Pinguino.) The Sandwich Bread plugs into a breadboard. The Lunch Break includes two breakout sockets, per pin. Both have 20MHz oscillators and USB2.0(B) connectors. Also free of charge. Requires your commitment and USA/48 address... Your choice of bare boards, kits, or assembled. The boards are PIC18F45K50 compatible, too. Includes one chip, 4550, or 45K50.
If MCU USB compatibility is not needed. I also have lots of other PIC demo boards.
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Or, Siglent could add a select-able beeper function to the firmware that outputs a USB signal in a common code format. That seems like what Siglent would be more willing to do... And, we could easily DIY a solution with any USB capable MCU... The PIC18F4550 has on-chip USB. The Arduino Uno has on-PCB USB.
That's a lot of work. :)
It wouild be a lot easier if Siglent would just modify the firmware to allow the setting of the frequency of the beep. My Keysight U1252B handheld multimeter allows the beep frequency setting to be changed in setup. The choices are 300, 600, 1200, and 2400 hz.
If enough people complain, maybe it'll get done. :)
WoD
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You could use SCPI over the USB or Ethernet connection to get continuous readings and thus trigger some other sound/alert.
But yes, I agree - that is a lot of work and unlikely to give a good result.
Some problems with this are
- You can't do it with a PIC18F4550 or similar as they don't support the USB Host functionality needed. It maybe doable with a RPi Pico.
- When controlled via SCPI commands it interferes with normal front panel functions of the DMM.
- There would be noticeable latency in continuity mode due to the SCPI readout rate.
In addition, the USB interface hardware would not have a way to use the data pins as simple logic outputs as that would not follow USB spec.
Going back to your VM Comp output, any change in the pulses relate to change in measurement rate which will be affected by DMM mode, range, auto-ranging, auto-zero, and other things. I don't imagine this will be a usable method to mimic continuity readout. I don't have a Siglent DMM to test with, but if I get a chance I will check the output on my Keysight DMMs just out of interest.
If the VM Comp output is under software control, then Siglent may be able to provide new firmware with an option to configure it as a continuity signal instead. That seems like the easiest solution (beyond just opening up the meter and swapping out the buzzer), but I have no idea if they would be interested in adding such a feature.
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It wouild be a lot easier if Siglent would just modify the firmware to allow the setting of the frequency of the beep. If enough people complain, maybe it'll get done.
Thank you for helping. The short history is that people did complain and Siglent did add a selection of three tones. It is available on newer firmware updates. I know that it is on my 3065 firmware, but I think that is on all DMMs of this series. However, they could not add additional volume, as the units are already set for maximum volume, when constructed at the factory. Edit: History credit goes to tautech.
I have mine set to the middle tone and, for my (diminished) hearing it does help. But, it is still frustrating.
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You could use SCPI over the USB or Ethernet connection to get continuous readings and thus trigger some other sound/alert.
But yes, I agree - that is a lot of work and unlikely to give a good result.
Some problems with this are
- You can't do it with a PIC18F4550 or similar as they don't support the USB Host functionality needed. It maybe doable with a RPi Pico.
- When controlled via SCPI commands it interferes with normal front panel functions of the DMM.
- There would be noticeable latency in continuity mode due to the SCPI readout rate.
In addition, the USB interface hardware would not have a way to use the data pins as simple logic outputs as that would not follow USB spec.
Going back to your VM Comp output, any change in the pulses relate to change in measurement rate which will be affected by DMM mode, range, auto-ranging, auto-zero, and other things. I don't imagine this will be a usable method to mimic continuity readout. I don't have a Siglent DMM to test with, but if I get a chance I will check the output on my Keysight DMMs just out of interest.
If the VM Comp output is under software control, then Siglent may be able to provide new firmware with an option to configure it as a continuity signal instead. That seems like the easiest solution (beyond just opening up the meter and swapping out the buzzer), but I have no idea if they would be interested in adding such a feature.
Thanks, Kean. This is good information. As said, I am not much of a coder and know just a little about communications... SPI and I2C, but nothing of USB. You have certainly given Siglent some things to consider.
As for a hardware solution, yes, I will be installing something shortly after my warranty ends. It is simply the best way to correct the problem.
It would be nice/fun to be able to go ahead and be designing that solution, in the interim. But, I need the particulars of the existing circuit's operations and hardware. I have asked for those details, here, but I haven't heard anything, yet.
Hmm... as Siglent was able to add a selection of frequencies, I would think 1) the buzzer is not fully self-contained, 2) it frequency is driven directly by an MCU and 3) there is some possibility that it is an actual speaker, not just a piezo. But, this is just more spit-balling.
I think Defpom participates on this forum and I am fairly sure that he has had a good look around inside this series of DMM. Well, for that matter, Dave has done a tear down review, as well. It would be nice, if they would clue us in. (Yes, I am aware that they are majorly busy running their companies... Just saying.)
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It wouild be a lot easier if Siglent would just modify the firmware to allow the setting of the frequency of the beep. If enough people complain, maybe it'll get done.
Thank you for helping. The short history is that people did complain and Siglent did add a selection of three tones. It is available on newer firmware updates. I know that it is on my 3065 firmware, but I think that is on all DMMs of this series. However, they could not add additional volume, as the units are already set for maximum volume, when constructed at the factory. Edit: History credit goes to tautech.
I have mine set to the middle tone and, for my (diminished) hearing it does help. But, it is still frustrating.
My 3055 is getting close to a year old and has the latest firmware. As far as topic related adjustments, I have only found the three levels of volume. I thought that maybe volume and tone might have gotten "confused" in the translation, but I can't hear any of the three.
These are in the "Cont" menu. Are there tone adjustments elsewhere that I've missed, or are they only on the 3065?
Thanks!
WoD
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On my same age SDM3055 with the latest firmware: the "Volume" settings in Cont in reality are frequency settings, Low to Middle to High beep at different frequencies: low to middle to high. All loud enough for me. I must note that in my lab, the fan of the 3055 is the loudest of all the noises.
So if you hear nothing at all, then something must be wrong or you have a very noisy environment.
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It's the same with the SDM3065X, 3 levels with different frequencies, medium is sufficient for my old ears...
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...I can't hear it even with my ear against the vent. If it's above about 3500hz, it doesn't exist in my world...
Nothing to hear for a person above 3500 Hz would be very unusual.
Of course, I do not know your hearing and definitely never wants to say anything that I can't know.
I just ask this to make sure that it is not a hardware defect.
Did you have the opportunity to hear another person heard whether this beeper gives a sound at all and how loud another person would judge this tone without deficit ?
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...I can't hear it even with my ear against the vent. If it's above about 3500hz, it doesn't exist in my world...
Nothing to hear for a person above 3500 Hz would be very unusual.
Of course, I do not know your hearing and definitely never wants to say anything that I can't know.
I just ask this to make sure that it is not a hardware defect.
Did you have the opportunity to hear another person heard whether this beeper gives a sound at all and how loud another person would judge this tone without deficit ?
I shot competitively for close to a half a century. I've fired hundreds of thousands of rounds with handguns, rifles, shotguns, and submachine guns.
In days past, no one used hearing protection. As time progressed, I learned to stuff a cigarette filter in each ear. As decades passed, I started wearing proper hearing protection when I shot. Now I even wear it when I mow or use a chainsaw, etc. I can't get back what I've already lost, but I can try to preserve what I have left.
The 3500hz number is no BS. I determined the 3500hz limit with my GenRad 1310B oscillator and a high quality speaker. Like I said, anything above about 3500hz doesn't exist in my world.
WoD
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my meter was faulty, started locking up constantly. was able to return it and get another one from the same source, and this one hasn't been locking up. all the other issues remain though, if I power down the meter, it is like powering up a bran d new meter for the first time; doesn't remember *anything*. it's annoying enough that I just leave this thing running 24/7 now because at the end of the day, this is a tool to earn me money, not a lab instrument to be babied.
having used this as my daily driver for a few months in my repair lab, my biggest gripes are the absolutely useless bar graph mode, the inability to remember any settings, and the quiet beeper. I like this meter well enough that I would buy a second one to sit atop it if the settings bug was fixed, but I think I might slide a 34460 under this one once they become available.
gotta give a shout out to the signlent phone support though, within minutes of calling I was on the phone with a enginerd, and he helped me get my defunct meter returned. these guys are literally just a proper firmware update away form having a fully fantastic bit of kit here
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my meter was faulty, started locking up constantly. was able to return it and get another one from the same source, and this one hasn't been locking up. all the other issues remain though, if I power down the meter, it is like powering up a bran d new meter for the first time; doesn't remember *anything*. it's annoying enough that I just leave this thing running 24/7 now because at the end of the day, this is a tool to earn me money, not a lab instrument to be babied.
having used this as my daily driver for a few months in my repair lab, my biggest gripes are the absolutely useless bar graph mode, the inability to remember any settings, and the quiet beeper. I like this meter well enough that I would buy a second one to sit atop it if the settings bug was fixed, but I think I might slide a 34460 under this one once they become available.
gotta give a shout out to the signlent phone support though, within minutes of calling I was on the phone with a enginerd, and he helped me get my defunct meter returned. these guys are literally just a proper firmware update away form having a fully fantastic bit of kit here
1. Check it's FW is the latest version here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?CateIdss=5
2. RTFM, goto System> Power On settings change from Default to Last
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Its not really relevant but when i was looking at these meters i could not find any info on if they stacked with Rigol function generators.
the answer is they do, but not the other way around.
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the answer is they do, but not the other way around.
Are the bumpers swap-able? You know, remove the left one, flip it over and install in on the right side and visa versa?
WoD
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the answer is they do, but not the other way around.
Are the bumpers swap-able? You know, remove the left one, flip it over and install in on the right side and visa versa?
WoD
Yes, the bumpers can be installed in reverse.
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thanks for the condescending reply! it's not like I'd read the short manual, or be running the latest firmware on both of these meters, much less discover the power on/last setting, which is actually burried under store/recall, not system setup.
anyhow, it doesn't fucking work. the only setting it memorizes is which mode you left the meter on, ie. dcv, 2wire, cont., etc. it doesn't remember your range settings, speed settings, display settings, etc.,
you know, *the settings I actually want it to remember*, the settings that take a bunch of button presses to set up each time you power on your meter, not the page I was on which can be changed by a single button press.
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anyhow, it doesn't fucking work. the only setting it memorizes is which mode you left the meter on, ie. dcv, 2wire, cont., etc. it doesn't remember your range settings, speed settings, display settings, etc.,
Yep, WTF ! :rant:
Thanks richardlicker and now reported with an urgent fix request.
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anyhow, it doesn't fucking work. the only setting it memorizes is which mode you left the meter on, ie. dcv, 2wire, cont., etc. it doesn't remember your range settings, speed settings, display settings, etc.,
Yep, WTF ! :rant:
Thanks richardlicker and now reported with an urgent fix request.
After making the same mistake as richardlicker and then contacting Siglent Tech support to be told otherwise, over the weekend all 3 SDM models with latest FW have been checked for Power On = Last behavior and it is correct. :phew:
However if you test this behavior in some impatient manner as richardlicker and I have done it certainly seems not to work correctly however when given a few seconds before shutdown after changing to another measurement mode the Power On = Last works as intended.
I checked measurement type and Range setting are both saved and returned after boot when Power On = Last is selected.
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anyhow, it doesn't fucking work. the only setting it memorizes is which mode you left the meter on, ie. dcv, 2wire, cont., etc. it doesn't remember your range settings, speed settings, display settings, etc.,
Yep, WTF ! :rant:
Thanks richardlicker and now reported with an urgent fix request.
After making the same mistake as richardlicker and then contacting Siglent Tech support to be told otherwise, over the weekend all 3 SDM models with latest FW have been checked for Power On = Last behavior and it is correct. :phew:
However if you test this behavior in some impatient manner as richardlicker and I have done it certainly seems not to work correctly however when given a few seconds before shutdown after changing to another measurement mode the Power On = Last works as intended.
I checked measurement type and Range setting are both saved and returned after boot when Power On = Last is selected.
Hmm, SDM3065X as running on graph mode as dBm... waiting until the graph is fully filled up...switch off... switch on gets back to VAC ...
Reported this to the support and confirmed as bug (Case ID:KHWT-202205310530) ... same thing on temperature and may current too
1) running on dBm on dBm as SDM-1.png
2) reboot back to VAC :palm:
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If the settings are stored in EEPROM it makes sense to wait some time before actually writing them to reduce the number of write cycles. Just waiting for the graphics to build up may not be enough. It many take something like 1 minute. This would not be so bad, if the instructions would tell the waiting time it takes.
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Other Siglent devices work the same way. Don't turn off right after changing a setting if you want it stored.
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If the settings are stored in EEPROM it makes sense to wait some time before actually writing them to reduce the number of write cycles. Just waiting for the graphics to build up may not be enough. It many take something like 1 minute. This would not be so bad, if the instructions would tell the waiting time it takes.
As you see in the first picture as dBm ... 1minutes where over... so switched off after!!
And how does it goes when the time graph is about 3600seconds... :-- a complete design flaws :palm: :palm:
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@tautech
It would seem in this case, that patience truly is a virtue! ::)
Diving into the system menu to change that setting to "Last" was never a priority for me when I first took delivery because, in the interest of clocking the first thousand hours of reference burn in time, it was rarely switched off overnight for at least the first six weeks. :)
It was only when I saw your post on how to change from the default factory setting on power up that reminded me to set it to "Last" and eliminate the minor annoyance of having to disable the auto-zero on every power up (it's had well over 2,000 hours of 'burn in' time and its 13W consumption has become a luxury I'd prefer to spend on my RFS).
It seems, like you and Richard, I too had been a little too swift off the mark when checking it out. In my case, fortuitously, the only thing it seemed to be remembering about my last settings was the disabled auto-zero. The main improvement I wanted but I was a little bemused to see the 20vdc and the 10G ohm settings revert back to auto and 10M respectively. Not a problem in this case since I didn't happen to require the Hi-Z option and therefore no need to set the range to 20vdc in order to enable it.
Having seen your post about allowing extra time before powering it down in order for the last user settings change to be properly stored for next time, I changed it to 20vdc, auto-zero off and 10G and waited over a minute before switching it off (a power down request really since you have to lean on the on/off button for just over a second to convince it that you really really meant to switch it off). This time, it came back on with those extra setting just as I'd left them - mystery solved! :)
I guess this behaviour only becomes apparent when testing to see whether it actually works as advertised and you power cycle it too soon for the last user settings saving operation to run to completion. In normal circumstances, you may well have changed the settings hours beforehand before casually powering it down so this issue remains nicely hidden out of sight.
Normally, one wouldn't bother anticipating what change of settings will be needed for the next session so will just let it remember the current settings and switch off since it's very likely that your next session will be using the same settings anyway and if not, it's just a case of changing them after powering it up to suit whatever new test regime you're going to be running next. I can't see why anyone would want to do otherwise so this is only an issue that arises out of trying to quickly test this feature.
Incidentally, I've just repeated the settings change test and it seems to be a case of allowing at least ten seconds for each changed setting so if you only change a single setting (eg auto-zero), ten seconds pause before power cycling it seems to suffice but if you change range, PLC, auto-zero and input Z one after the other, that seems to require a 40 seconds pause for them all to be updated.
In normal use, this won't be a problem since such wholesale changes will likely enjoy minutes to hours of 'Pause Time' before being powered off anyway. Still, it's worth knowing about this 'peculiarity' when it comes to enabling the 'use last settings' feature. I just checked the manual and it makes no mention of this "Gotcha!" in the power on settings section. A note to explain why not all changes of user settings might be successfully saved on power down would neatly address this limitation. After your chat with customer support, I suspect such a note may well appear in the next user manual revision. :)
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Thanks JBG.
Siglent may have changed some code in recent FW that contains their flash memory optimisation that’s impacted on how and the frequency of settings save’s which may or may not need to be mentioned in the manual.
Now we know about this behaviour let’s just focus on what these meters don’t do properly, verify issues and report them for fixing.
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The feature of working with the SC1016 scanner card (checked on SDM3065X-SC).
When working with a scanner card, all channels (CH1-CH16) are connected to the input terminals (with the inscription of 1000V Max).
If the wires are connected to the front panel, then be sure to turn them off (do not supply voltage).
The opposite is true: when measuring high voltages (1000V), it is advisable to turn off everything from the scanner card (1000V will only be supplied to the contacts of the relay UD2-4.5NU).
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To be on the safe side on should use the SDM3065X-SC only up to 300 V even for the normal inputs. There are still the relays for the scanner card involved that seem to have a limited voltage rating. Besides the relays there can also be issues with the connector and creepage distances on the PCB. A similar limitation also applies to other DMMs with scanner card - they usually reduce the voltage rating for the whole meter.
As the scanner is a factory only option, they may as well change the lables on the front to a reduced CAT rating.
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I most of all did not like the lack of a ban on any voltage at the entrance on the front panel. When operating CH13-CH16, the input resistance becomes 0.1 Ohm.
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Having my SDM3065X for about a year I did a quick check against my reliable old HP34401A.
Both running for 1 hour to warm up. Not that bad!
And my Uni-T UT181A is much better than it's reputation :-+
What a pity that it gets no after sales support.
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Agree about the UT181A. It's in fact more "spot on" than my new SDM3045X, and very solid construction with CAT-ratings in mind.
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The Uni-T 181A is a very good, much faster "copy" of the Fluke 287 with a brilliant OLED display.
The features and the user interface is nearly identical. But it's a Uni-T, not a Fluke :-//
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Looking around, I watched the video below that explains how to measure voltage and current simultaneously using the dual screen feature of Keithley DMM6500 (it is a kind of workaround, not an official feature but it works).
https://youtu.be/Z7sYUL85jTc?t=607 (https://youtu.be/Z7sYUL85jTc?t=607)
Did anyone try if selecting Voltage and Current at the same time is possible with the SDM30xxx series?
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Did anyone try if selecting Voltage and Current at the same time is possible with the SDM30xxx series?
RTFM. ;)
Dual simultaneous measurements are not possible with the SDM models and instead they cycle between each measurement when in Dual mode.
There's a list of Dual measurement types that can be selected/chosen in the manual.
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Thanks. I don't own the device but found the manual on the net.
Looks like it is possible to select voltage and current combination for the dual display. So the device will show both simultaneously (alternately I mean).
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So, going through all the threads I can find regarding the SDM3045X it seems it is a POS that should be avoided. Is this the general consensus?
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PoS .. Compared to what? It's value seems in line with its cost. If you need more, then you'll want to budget a bit higher. The 3045X is an attempt to lower the costs as much as possible within the same overall deisgn.
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WRT all the issues reported with it. It just seems $400 is a lot to pay for a DMM with boot-up issues, lock-up issues, auto-ranging issues. Yeah, the price is nice but in going through the posts about it on this forum it seems no one has anything great to say about it. Am I reading things incorrectly or does it have some redeeming features that have not been mentioned (other than price) that would be compelling as opposed to something even less expensive (like the Vici VC8145)?
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So, going through all the threads I can find regarding the SDM3045X it seems it is a POS that should be avoided. Is this the general consensus?
WRT all the issues reported with it. It just seems $400 is a lot to pay for a DMM with boot-up issues, lock-up issues, auto-ranging issues. Yeah, the price is nice but in going through the posts about it on this forum it seems no one has anything great to say about it. Am I reading things incorrectly or does it have some redeeming features that have not been mentioned (other than price) that would be compelling as opposed to something even less expensive (like the Vici VC8145)?
FWIW there's more reading for you to do:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/)
^^^ addresses the ranging issues and is an interesting read.
FYI Boot freeze issues have been dealt with in a recent FW release and are mentioned in the release notes as:
Optimize flash R&W design
This has certainly fixed any outstanding boot issues and I'm seeing a fall away in calls for assistance. :phew:
Surprisingly SDM3045X is a good seller for us when I did think 3055 was to be the much stronger seller but no.
Anyways, one of our customers likes them so much he has one on every techs bench in his appliance repair shop.....4 to date IIRC.
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Surprisingly SDM3045X is a good seller for us
This is....interesting to read from a siglent distributor... ;)
It´s not a secret I wanted to buy at least 4 of them for our PCB testplace, but was irritating about the comments how "bad" it is.
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Surprisingly SDM3045X is a good seller for us
This is....interesting to read from a siglent distributor... ;)
It´s not a secret I wanted to buy at least 4 of them for our PCB testplace, but was irritating about the comments how "bad" it is.
It's not bad just annoying if you need work right where the 2V range change is and this is a major fail from Siglent for some which is why we explored my long held belief SDM3045X = China model SDM3055X-E.
We're also a bit different in that every model gets a PD check where new FW if available is installed and recently also change Default boot to Last to give a better user experience, all this has resulted in us not getting the boot freezes some users do yet we have all these tools to recover them we only get to help other elsewhere rather than our NZ customers.
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I am owning my 3045x now since November 2016. I purchased a new one and paid less than 300 Euro including shipping for it and I can tell you I am very satisfied. It is fast and does everything I need and a lot more. And it is fan-less. I never had any problem with it and right now I am using the hack with the 5.5 digit firmware (SDM3055X-E) which makes it a 3055. It is stable down to the last digit. I am powering it up almost every day and it never failed on me and the thought of having to buy something better (you all know what I mean) never occurred.
Possibly the last digit displayed is not quite as trustworthy as on the 3055, but I can live with that: Whether the measured 3.0001 volts are actually 3.0003 volts in reality doesn't matter to me.
Sure, it's not a device to brag about, but I'm more of a pragmatic guy and I'm sure the device will suffice any engineer in 99.9% of all cases.
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Surprisingly SDM3045X is a good seller for us
This is....interesting to read from a siglent distributor... ;)
It´s not a secret I wanted to buy at least 4 of them for our PCB testplace, but was irritating about the comments how "bad" it is.
It's not bad just annoying if you need work right where the 2V range change is and this is a major fail from Siglent for some which is why we explored my long held belief SDM3045X = China model SDM3055X-E.
We're also a bit different in that every model gets a PD check where new FW if available is installed and recently also change Default boot to Last to give a better user experience, all this has resulted in us not getting the boot freezes some users do yet we have all these tools to recover them we only get to help other elsewhere rather than our NZ customers.
So the 'hack' in the thread you linked to will avoid the ranging issues? The thing I'm not sure about is whether that hack needs to be re-written for each FW update.
Does the same script used to hack the SDS1104X-E to a 1204 and the SDG1032 to the 1062 work with the DMMs too?
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So the 'hack' in the thread you linked to will avoid the ranging issues?
Ranging issues are only a problem when trying to measure close to the '2' range step in SDM3045X that have a '6' range step.
Converting these to the China only SDM3055X-E changes only the product ID and the way ranging works so to convert SDM3045X to the same '2' range step as the other SDM models.
The thing I'm not sure about is whether that hack needs to be re-written for each FW update.
Think about what you have read....the product ID has been changed for it to:
1) Operate in a different measurement ranges ...... the same that SDM3055X-E models do...remember same SDM3045X HW.
2) Accept SDM3055X-E firmware, again remember same as SDM3045X HW.
Does the same script used to hack the SDS1104X-E to a 1204 and the SDG1032 to the 1062 work with the DMMs too?
Go back and read that thread again to properly understand why we did this and how it's done.....absolutely nothing to do with any python scripts.
Edit to add:
Is SDM3045X conversion to SDM3055X-E necessary for full functionality of SDM3045X ?
No but in certain and limited use cases it is beneficial.
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Okay, that all seems pretty clear. Edit the SDM3055X-E FW to update the model ID and the checksum so it is recognized by the FW update process, then load in the 3055X-E FW to configure the device as such.
One issue though. Siglent's servers will not allow me to access that FW. I get re-directed to a different site where only the SDM3055 (no X-E) FW is available. Is there somewhere else I can access the FW I need or am I SOL?
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One issue though. Siglent's servers will not allow me to access that FW. I get re-directed to a different site where only the SDM3055 (no X-E) FW is available. Is there somewhere else I can access the FW I need or am I SOL?
Start here:
https://int.siglent.com/
Goto the globe top right and hit the drop down arrow and select the Chinese character China website link with a Right click and Open in new Tab.
Then you have 2 near identical websites to use the English one as a guide to explore the China one. ;)
Have fun.
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Start here:
https://int.siglent.com/
Goto the globe top right and hit the drop down arrow and select the Chinese character China website link with a Right click and Open in new Tab.
Then you have 2 near identical websites to use the English one as a guide to explore the China one. ;)
Have fun.
Okay, that works... !!. Thanks! The newest version is V2.01.01.12. That is the one tv84 created the patch for, which is good. Does this one also fix the boot and lock problems?
Edit: I'm wondering if that Caddock divider used in the 3055 could be hacked into the 3045. Hmm.... I'm now wondering if it is an off-the-shelf part..
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Does this one also fix the boot and lock problems?
Time to drag the translator out and compare the Chinese FW release notes with those for SDM3045X.
Edit: I'm wondering if that Caddock divider used in 3055 could be hacked into the 3045. Hmm.... I'm now wondering if it is an off-the-shelf part..
::)
Go buy a real SDM3055 instead.....3045X is probably a different PCB....more homework for you to do.
Don't be shy to update threads on what you find.
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Go buy a real SDM3055 instead.....
That's not a possibility. I sold an old dirt bike so have just $1800 CDN to spend. That's a hard limit. My goal is to get a ~$3000 CDN kit for that $1800. The biggest item on that was the SDS1104X-E I received last week and hacked it to a fully enabled SDS1204X-E and added the WIFI dongle. Tomorrow I receive a SDG1032X-E which will be hacked to a SDG1062X-E. That leaves me with $521 CDN. I can get the SDM3045X-E for $515 delivered. The 3055 is more than $200 more delivered (unless you can do better??!!??)
So.. 3045X is probably a different PCB....more homework for you to do.
A-hacking I will go .. with research and reason.
Don't be shy to update threads on what you find.
I certainly will! Thanks tautech, you have been very helpful.
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Start here:
https://int.siglent.com/
Goto the globe top right and hit the drop down arrow and select the Chinese character China website link with a Right click and Open in new Tab.
Then you have 2 near identical websites to use the English one as a guide to explore the China one. ;)
Have fun.
Okay, that works... !!. Thanks! The newest version is V2.01.01.12. That is the one tv84 created the patch for, which is good. Does this one also fix the boot and lock problems?
Edit: I'm wondering if that Caddock divider used in the 3055 could be hacked into the 3045. Hmm.... I'm now wondering if it is an off-the-shelf part..
The Caddick divider seems to be a standard / of the shelf part (could still be a special selection - though I doubt it). However the PCB may no allow easy (and safe) mounting and there are likely other small differences (e.g. lower grade parts) in the hardware. At the very least one would need a new calibration after a change of the divider. The price difference to the real SDM3055 is normally not that large.
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Actually, I did just find a supplier near me that is selling the 3055 at a discount and includes free shipping. That makes the difference only $100 CDN ($77US). I think I can swing that.
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Time to drag the translator out and compare the Chinese FW release notes with those for SDM3045X.
SDM3055X-E 软件版本修订记录及升级说明.zh-CN.en.pdf
2021/7/6 2.01.01.12
1. Add the memory recall function of the scan card configuration
2. Increase the switching time interval of the scan mode card channel to avoid common faults.
3. Crashes when loading files of different models, and the file path is abnormal after secure erase
4. Some UI (slow refresh in fast mode, not enough digits, incomplete display, etc.)
Bugfixes related to SCPI commands
2021/2/5 2.01.01.10R1
1. Modify the individual crash problem of U disk storage
2. Modify some defects of the acquisition function
3. Improve the trend graph display function
4. Fix some bugs in communication with EasyDMM
SDM3055 Firmware Revise History and Update Instructions.pdf
2021/7/8 1.01.01.25
1. Add the scan card setup save&recall function.
2. Optimize the slot time of the channel switching of scan card.
3. Optimize flash R&W design.
4. Fix some UI & SCPI bugs
2021/2/5 1.01.01.22R1
1. Fix some unit faults of 22 version.
2. Fixed some bugs about communication with Easysdm
SDM3045X-Firmware-Revise-History.pdf
2021/9/22 5.01.01.07R1
1. Add the customer sensor support.
2. Optimize flash R&W design。
3. Fix some UI & SCPI bugs
2021/2/5 5.01.01.06R1
1. Fixed some unit faults in 06 version
2. Fixed some bugs about communication with EasyDMM.
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Thanks mushroom. :)
We can see the China version X-E firmware is older than for SDM3045X and apparently doesn’t include optimisation of the flash memory which suggests if one planned to get a 3045X to convert to 3055X-E it would be wise to install 07R1 firmware before conversion. :popcorn:
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Not sure I'll be the first to try the hack...
What could be the device language after the hack ? Chinese ?
More digits. What to do with if hardware and calibration are not designed for ? The 45 is more than good enough for what I'm doing !
Still don't really understand Siglent OS/firmware.
And I'm not lucky... A few years ago, I bricked my phone re-rooting it after a reset to factory settings. 2 months ago, I overwrote the OS 3 of my SDS1204X-E with the OS 2 (AFAIK, 3 is a fix for WiFi dongle licensing... Real men have dedicated Ethernet switch and PC for the lab, so I don't care).
I too : :popcorn:
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Not sure I'll be the first to try the hack...
:-DD
You’re way behind the 8 ball as it’s months old now.
Pop back to reply #1186 for the link to that thread and have a study up. ;)
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Yes, I know this thread. I read all discussions about Siglent hardware before I recently purchased SPD3303X-E, SDG2042X, SDM3045X and SDS1204X-E.
But still a bit shy. Until now, nobody made a video showing the results. Same for the Hantek DSO5102P : took ages before someone demonstrated the benefits (Tony Albus IIRC)
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Yes, I know this thread. I read all discussions about Siglent hardware before I recently purchased SDG2042X, SDM3045X and SDS1204X-E.
But still a bit shy. Until now, nobody made a video showing the results.
It’s really not rocket science, go back and carefully study the first post in that thread to see why we went down this path which is really to provide better logging results without a glitch near the 2V level in the 6V range.
Like I said earlier, is this hack to the China only X-E version necessary for normal use of a SDM3045X, no however it might be useful for some users in some use cases.
Then there is the benefit of another LSD however without a precision divider in the 3045X this apparent windfall is of questionable benefit.
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Then there is the benefit of another LSD however without a precision divider in the 3045X this apparent windfall is of questionable benefit.
Well there is a benefit: as I said above, I do not trust the absolute value of the LSD, but as the last digit is rock stable, it is very useful as an indicator (e.g. Volts at some slowly discharging part; or Ohms to find a shortage etc.) [where for the latter I often prefer my thermal cam as I get results much quicker]
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...Ohms to find a shortage etc.)...
Didn't think of that ! Thanks for the suggestion !
I just measured the voltage used for the 600 Ohms range : 6V. Could be dangerous for most micro controllers.
With the chinese version, there is a 200 Ohms range according to the datasheet. Is it using 2 Volts ? It would be a game changer !
[EDIT] Yes. 1 mA source for th two versions.
(was planning to build a Shorty)
But something's puzzling me. What about first upgrading to 07R1 firmware as suggested by Tautech ?
Currently, the device is "5.01.01.06.R1"
If it is first updated to "5.01.01.07R1", it will anyway become "2.01.01.12". Will the 07R1 fixes survive or be overwritten ? (2.01.01.12 was released 2 months before 5.01.01.07R1)
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According to the datasheet for the 3055 and 3045 the test current is 1 mA for the lowest resistance ranges ( 200 / 600 / 2000 ohms). The upper limit for the current source is usually just set by the hardware and would not change with a different SW version. Just the point where the display shows overflow would change. For a large part the 600 Ohms range with the 3045 would be more like the 2000 Ohms range, just limited to showing 600 Ohms in the software and possibly changing the internal gain (using the gain setting at the ADC chip) at some 200 Ohm.
I would consider such a hidden autoranging a bad thing. It is especially bad for the 6/2 V range, as this includes switching a relay and thus adds a delay or invalid data.
The open circuit voltage should be the same for the 200 and 2000 ohms ranges of the 3055E and 3045 and likely also the 3055. It is just the gain in reading the voltage that changes.
With the current limited to 1 mA this should not be a problem for digital chips, like a µC or similar. If at all it may be a problem for some sensitive FETs / RF low noise transistors that may just start to show a break through at 6 V. This may cause added drift / noise from hot electron effects and populating long lived defect states. Still 6 V is relatively low and most parts at least allow for 5 V. With such sensitive parts one would normally not measure with a DMM without some extra care, alone for ESD reasons.
The higher resolution can also be a plus for very low voltages like with thermocouples: with the 3055 FW it can resolve 1 µV opposed to 10 µV. Resolving such small voltage is a common reason to use a 5 or 6 digit meter.
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But something's puzzling me. What about first upgrading to 07R1 firmware as suggested by Tautech ?
Currently, the device is "5.01.01.06.R1"
If it is first updated to "5.01.01.07R1", it will anyway become "2.01.01.12". Will the 07R1 fixes survive or be overwritten ? (2.01.01.12 was released 2 months before 5.01.01.07R1)
All true but take a minute to think about this.....the 07R1 main improvement was better flash management that hasn't apparently been enacted in China X-E models that we can see from the translated Release Notes which then questions why any subsequent firmware upgrade or product ID change would muck with that particular part of the OS.
Maybe you're just overthinking this...... :popcorn:
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It's not bad just annoying if you need work right where the 2V range change
When it´s only a annoying thing, that won´t stop me. ;)
4.5 digits are enough for our purposes in the testfield.
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It's not bad just annoying if you need work right where the 2V range change
When it´s only a annoying thing, that won´t stop me. ;)
4.5 digits are enough for our purposes in the testfield.
Yep for the repair bench logging is rarely used and only when levels come and go over the '2' range step do glitches appear in the log.
Otherwise these fanless SDM3045X are a good bench tool, not precise but if you need that a 6-8 digit DMM should be in the budget instead. :P
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My SDM3605X has gone into a locked boot screen (siglent and tornado) - after 10 minutes goes to grey, was stored away for 12 months - and now does this,
is there a repair agent in Australia or can someone suggest a repair ??
thanks.
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My SDM3605X has gone into a locked boot screen (siglent and tornado) - after 10 minutes goes to grey, was stored away for 12 months - and now does this,
is there a repair agent in Australia or can someone suggest a repair ??
thanks.
Welcome to the forum.
Either of the Siglent agents in Oz should have no problem guiding you through recovery with the Siglent recovery packages. Unfortunate you probably weren’t aware of the major update last year that all but fixes these freezes.
If they fob you off and don’t share the packages pop me a PM and we’ll get you all sorted.
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Feature request :
some black tape...
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Feature request :
some black tape...
:-DD
A little rub with sandpaper will take the shine away. ;)
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Feature request :
some black tape...
:-DD
A little rub with sandpaper will take the shine away. ;)
Now I've had my attention drawn to that overly bright indicator LED (it hadn't bothered me until now), I've tried an even neater modification... with a black felt tip pen. It's a lot less bright now, plus when turned off, it turns into a black spot, enhancing the fact that it is indeed switched off (a sort of high contrast feature of modern LED displays over the light grey of the earlier CRT display technology effect).
A little rub with sandpaper as Tautech suggests might help remove the slight unevenness of black felt tip applied directly onto the untreated surface as well as attenuate the brightness even further. The only snag with the sandpaper treatment being the need to carefully mask the surrounding panel to prevent collateral damage if you want to avoid taking it apart. in which case, you might as well wire an additional current limiting resistor in series and save the need to apply black felt tip - a little rub with sandpaper to convert the specular glare into a muted wide angle glow wouldn't come amiss, seeing as how you've gone to this much trouble by this stage anyway. ;)
Oddly enough, the SDM3065X is the only one of my six strong collection of Siglent gear that uses a naked LED power on indicator, The other kit relies either on a backlit on/off button or just the display (and the odd backlit button) to signal its powered up status.
BTW, an alternative 'quick fix' would to use one of those stick on paper dots (green or yellow) over the LED (or even a small square of green PVC tape). ;)
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loll i understand you, my computer has blue leds, and believe me at night they light up the room pretty well, black tape it is for me too
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Of course, I mostly was kidding !
I also used some paint when these f****g blue LEDs pop'd everywhere with 10s of mA while they only need 10ths of mA.
This LED is needed when the screen saver is active. It could be turned off if the screen saver is not in use... Could even be a hack : OFF if backlight is ON (after waranty expires !)
IIRC, with older firmware versions, this LED was blinking if the device was powered by mains but OFF. Some complained while some others found it usefull.
The SDM needs a new menu, dedicated to the power LED.
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The smart blinking of the led suggests some processing power running to maintain the fading effect. Maybe it's possilbe to change firmware and have a brightness setting.
In case this seems somewhat over the top: ;)
My 3055 sucks 2.9W when off, which amounts to 26 kWh per year. :scared:
It's 8.9W switched on.
A power LED should be no more than 0.1W.
I disconnect mains completely when the DVM is not needed, which - as a hobbyist - is most of the time.
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Now all detective skills awaken about the electricity costs... :palm:
Apart from the fact that for the soft button it still has to run a bit slightly clocked,
it is actually a traditional transformer (which is nothing bad in this case), no switching power supply with almost no idle consumption.
If I know that I will not use it very soon, I also separate all measuring devices from the electricity. :bullshit:
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Now all detective skills awaken about the electricity costs... :palm:
...
No need to run down this rabbit hole. ;)
Feel free to follow the idea of a firmware mod to configure the power led. :-DD
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I have an SDM3055 that I bought used on eBay (so no dealer purchase history). On two separate occasions it has bricked due to the well-known "freeze on boot" problem. Each time I recovered by using the microSD card (opening the case and soldering the two magic pads together). The most recent time it was already running the V25 firmware that was supposed to have solved this problem. Unfortunately, after this recent recovery the unit has been set back to factory defaults. The *IDN? command returns:
Siglent Technologies, ,0123456789,1.01.01.25
and the factory calibration appears to have been deleted (my voltage measurements are noticeably wrong).
I'm guessing Siglent is not going to want to fix this under warranty since it has a cracked case, modifications, and no purchase history. Is there any way to recover from this? I can deal with the bad *IDN? string, but how do you get it recalibrated? I don't have access to the necessary equipment to do it myself. I live in the US (California).
Thanks!
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A few suggestions for Siglent based on initial use of tho 3045x. First is I would like leading zeros suppressed to make it easier to read. Second, I would like either control over unit of measure, or in the alternate, favor units of measure that put numbers to the left of the decimal. For example, 700 uv rather than .7 mv.
I confess I have not gone through the meter manual in complete detail, so if I missed some visual options, I apologize. I am aware there is a lot of depth to this product that I have only begun to explore. It's interesting for me to recall that as a child in the 1960s/70s I had a micronta type 20,000 ohms per volt multimeter, and its fun to be able to get gear that is far more accurate today. I think my first digital dmm was a fluke 37 I got new in I think the 1980s, I recall how cool I thought the auto-ranging was...
Amending my original post--I was hearing a relay clicking maybe once a second. I thought it was stuck in some error state, but now I think it was due to being in dual mode and the meter was switching back in forth as I might expect.
I want to compliment siglent on the easy and intuitive process for upgrading the firmware--sort of the same as with motherboard firmware. One of my meters was at the 16 level and I upgraded it.
For Siglent's information, I chose the 3045x over the 3055/65 because I didn't really need the precision--would have paid for it for the fun of it, but the fan in the 3055 deterred me from getting that model. I have lots of noisy fans in my test equipment, and I didn't want more.
To change the subject again, and if this is off topic, I can edit the post, but for the fun of it I put both meters on my lab network switch and got easydmm going. From what I can see of the documentation, I do not have an option to see multiple meter displays on the computer at the same time. There appears to be some sort of logging or sampling mode that will cycle through the meters at intervals and save the results in a log/tabular format, but a visual real time (alternating updates) multi-display would be nice. That naturally lead to my next question--whether there is more functional software able to read meter data and show a more sophisticated display.
I will also note that at this point I am right on the cusp of going beyond functional needs and into collector status, as my appetite for test equipment seems unslaked--I am looking into an older fluke that does have dual display capability... Is collecting simply an early stage of hoarding by one in denial? ;)
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MarkKN
You post reminded me to add some info about SDM3045X ranging into the POI list in the OP.
Suggest you take a few minutes to follow that link and have a study about why it is and how some are working around it. It might not apply exactly to A measurements, I haven't as yet checked.
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Tautech, Thanks for the suggestion, I will do some reading.
I was able to get the dual mode working--current and voltage for load testing a power supply--I should have looked more closely into this feature before purchasing a second meter, but its all good. The meter does make a relay noise each second as it presumably switches the sensing circuitry. I wonder if all meters make a relay noise to implement dual mode? I presume the relays are designed for millions of actuations, so I need not be concerned about wearing them out?
Two questions:--I looked at the manual and the device pretty closely and was not able to locate a way to send a screen capture to the usb stick like I am able to do with the scope. Is this a capability of the sdm3045x?
I also noticed that when easydmm took it into remote mode, it switched the meter out of dual mode. Is there a way to avoid this? I presume this is a limitation of the meter or the software.
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Tautech, Thanks for the suggestion, I will do some reading.
I was able to get the dual mode working--current and voltage for load testing a power supply--I should have looked more closely into this feature before purchasing a second meter, but its all good. The meter does make a relay noise each second as it presumably switches the sensing circuitry. I wonder if all meters make a relay noise to implement dual mode? I presume the relays are designed for millions of actuations, so I need not be concerned about wearing them out?
Not heard of any relays needing replacement and yes of course they are not switching any load so only contact material contamination is likely to impact on accuracy.
Two questions:--I looked at the manual and the device pretty closely and was not able to locate a way to send a screen capture to the usb stick like I am able to do with the scope. Is this a capability of the sdm3045x?
You can but it's hardly an optimal process and IIRC from the screen you want to capture you need go into the Utility menu and find the save screenshot function. Others will call me out if it's somewhere else.
I also noticed that when easydmm took it into remote mode, it switched the meter out of dual mode. Is there a way to avoid this? I presume this is a limitation of the meter or the software.
Again if IIRC ::) you can select Dual from within EasyDMM and toggle back and forth as required using the 2nd function of the Shift key.
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Screen shot is in Utility/Manage File/Save Screen/Yes
P.S. first you should choose to save it to "external" USB rather than internal memory (I don't see a way of viewing it again on the meter itself, so internal seems pointless)
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Scott, do you think Test Controller would be another solution for MarkKn ?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/)
Did you do a description for Dual measurements with HKJ ?
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Scott, do you think Test Controller would be another solution for MarkKn ?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/)
Did you do a description for Dual measurements with HKJ ?
I didn't write the SDM device driver as that was done by someone else (I did the SDL1xxxx series, SDP1xxxx series devices). The SDM driver is pretty comprehensive BUT doesn't have the dual mode function at the moment, maybe I should look to see if I can add it, I will have to look in the manual to see if there are any SCPI commands for dual mode.
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Interesting, for all SDM3000 models there are 2 programming manuals:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDM3045x/SDM3045X_Remote_Manual-RM06034-E01A.pdf
SDM3055:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDM3055/SDM3055_RemoteManual_RC06035-E01A.pdf
And for your SDM3065X Scott:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDM3065X/SDM3065X_Remote_Manual_RC06036-E01A.pdf
And this they all share:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDM%20Series%20Digital%20Multimeter_ProgrammingGuide_EN02A.pdf
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well, it seems dual mode is not even covered by the SCPI commands... there is no remote option I can find.
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well, it seems dual mode is not even covered by the SCPI commands... there is no remote option I can find.
Good. :-+
We can't have the engineers have a quiet western holiday break now can we ? >:D
Questions asked on Siglent's private forum........
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I have an SDM3055 that I bought used on eBay (so no dealer purchase history). On two separate occasions it has bricked due to the well-known "freeze on boot" problem. Each time I recovered by using the microSD card (opening the case and soldering the two magic pads together). The most recent time it was already running the V25 firmware that was supposed to have solved this problem. Unfortunately, after this recent recovery the unit has been set back to factory defaults. The *IDN? command returns:
Siglent Technologies, ,0123456789,1.01.01.25
and the factory calibration appears to have been deleted (my voltage measurements are noticeably wrong).
I'm guessing Siglent is not going to want to fix this under warranty since it has a cracked case, modifications, and no purchase history. Is there any way to recover from this? I can deal with the bad *IDN? string, but how do you get it recalibrated? I don't have access to the necessary equipment to do it myself. I live in the US (California).
Thanks!
Email sent. Apparently NA branch have the knowledge/tools to fix this.
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Having recently bought a SDM3055, here's some things I'd like to note.
The meter I received does not have a back faceplate with the "extension card option". Not that it matters to me, but the pictures I've seen everywhere doesn't match.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1680961;image)
Measuring ambient temperature around 20ºC is 1.5...3ºC above. Tends to converge over time, but still 1...1.5ºC off
The last 2 digits could be omitted since they are always jumping all over, and are useless.
And... why is 'ºC' and 'ºF' lettering, different from the rest of display, like 'K' :palm:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1680967;image)
The EasyDMM display has an error above the button 'Cont', because it should show 'diode' not 'freq'
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1680973;image)
I would prefer the second reading in dual mode to show up like the "Measure value" in temperature mode. Bigger numbers. The 'range' display could be placed above that or at the top next to 'Auto trig'. The way it looks now, it's like a sticker to patch a mistake
In the dual mode, I'm unable to place frequency or period as a second reading of each other. I'm probably being clumsy but in dual mode I always manage to double display frequency or period.
Unlike what's stated in the datasheet, my SDM3055 is a not a 240,000count. >:(
Regularly is a 220,000 count :-- , but it acts weird in dual mode, behaving like a 999,999count :-+
In 'single mode' display, it always jumps to the next range when reaching 220,000 count if in auto-range, or overflows if in manual-range.
Use cases in Dual mode ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Up to 999.999mVAC - 999,999 count
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1680979;image)
Up to 9.99999VAC - 999,999 count
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1680985;image)
But the really weird behaviour is when in dual mode mVDC+mVAC it jumps from 200mV scale to 1000V though it still displays it's in 200mV range, but showing 000.220v, ignoring the 2v range were it should be if 200mV was overflown.
Below 220mVDC - 220,000 count
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1680991;image)
When 220mVDC is overflown - :rant:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1680997;image)
Don't know if all this was known, since I have to admit that I didn't read all the thread, but as I have the latest firmware version 1.01.01.25, seems that are some bugs left to correct.
Conclusion: It's almost perfect. ;D
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Having recently bought a SDM3055, here's some things I'd like to note.
The meter I received does not have a back faceplate with the "extension card option". Not that it matters to me, but the pictures I've seen everywhere doesn't match.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1680961;image)
It seems efforts to reduce confusion has only increased it. :-DD
SC models are the only units with holes in the rear these days and the few we've sold haven't come with an additional cover plate.
I would prefer the second reading in dual mode to show up like the "Measure value" in temperature mode. Bigger numbers. The 'range' display could be placed above that or at the top next to 'Auto trig'. The way it looks now, it's like a sticker to patch a mistake
Dual mode display was enlarged in very early firmware and maybe if there's further support for this it can be looked at again.
In the dual mode, I'm unable to place frequency or period as a second reading of each other. I'm probably being clumsy but in dual mode I always manage to double display frequency or period.
Please see the Dual display chart on P41 in Users manual:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDM3055/SDM3055_UserManual_UM06035-E02A.pdf (https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDM3055/SDM3055_UserManual_UM06035-E02A.pdf)
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The bug in easyDMM for diode mode was something I found and told Siglent about years ago when I did a multimeter review and looked at software, I’m surprised it is still there, something for you to pass along Rob.
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In the dual mode, I'm unable to place frequency or period as a second reading of each other. I'm probably being clumsy but in dual mode I always manage to double display frequency or period.
Please see the Dual display chart on P41 in Users manual:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDM3055/SDM3055_UserManual_UM06035-E02A.pdf (https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDM3055/SDM3055_UserManual_UM06035-E02A.pdf)
Thanks tautech :-+
I tried all options on the table, and put the results on the chart.
The ACI (main) + DCI (dual) caused the DMM freeze in 2 times when only DC current was present. When I measured a test circuit with AC+DC the DMM worked as expected.
What came as surprise was the fact that if AC current is the being measured as the main display function, frequency or period can't be in dual display mode, but the inverse is possible. The chart is inverted for me.
Still... no matter how I tried, just can't get frequency and period at the same time (one as main and the other in dual). Just one at a time, or the same at the same time. :horse:
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Measuring ambient temperature around 20ºC is 1.5...3ºC above. Tends to converge over time, but still 1...1.5ºC off
I don't want to hijack this discussion, but I've been waiting to read about this issue for a while. It's been discussed in this thread, with no clear answer. The placement of the cold source was evocated... Not really understanding the temperature probe calibration, I didn't attempt anything. Temperature readings are wrong by the same amount. I tested with 3 thermocouples, two being new (the one that came with the EEVBlog BM786, another that came with the Brymen BM079 ammeter), and a 25 years old one. Is there something that can be done ? (SDM3045X with the "chinese fake 3055" hack, the hack making no difference in temperature readings).
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Does no one ever RTFM these days ? :-//
P35 in the manual for temp measurement describes how to adjust the meter to get temps more accurate.
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Does no one ever RTFM these days ? :-//
P35 in the manual for temp measurement describes how to adjust the meter to get temps more accurate.
Been there.
There's nothing to adjust or set, stated in page 35 neither in page 88.
As far as I can tell, the DMM only displays a table with the corresponding measured value vs temperature, but it can't be edited. :-//
One can only set the type of thermocouple.
If it can be manipulated through commands or some other way, I haven't cheeked, and don't recall to have seen it mentioned.
EDIT: I haven't checked the service manual though
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Does no one ever RTFM these days ? :-//
P35 in the manual for temp measurement describes how to adjust the meter to get temps more accurate.
I wrote "Not really understanding the temperature probe calibration...".
This means I read, but didn't 100% understand : english is not my native language (Didn't you notice ? Seriously ?).
Explanations were unclear to me ; having other tools for temperature measurements, I gave up instead of messing things up. I don't even know the exact type of probes that came with my other meters, and anyway I can live without temperatures on a bench DMM !
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Does no one ever RTFM these days ? :-//
P35 in the manual for temp measurement describes how to adjust the meter to get temps more accurate.
Been there.
There's nothing to adjust or set, stated in page 35 neither in page 88.
As far as I can tell, the DMM only displays a table with the corresponding measured value vs temperature, but it can't be edited. :-//
One can only set the type of thermocouple.
If it can be manipulated through commands or some other way, I haven't cheeked, and don't recall to have seen it mentioned.
EDIT: I haven't checked the service manual though
Nothing in SM, just checked so sent mail to HQ.
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@tautech Thanks for your efforts, as usual. :-+
Adding a thought on the subject...
The thermocouple tables provided in the SDM3055 probability match this reference tables:
https://www.thermocoupleinfo.com/thermocouple-reference-tables.htm (https://www.thermocoupleinfo.com/thermocouple-reference-tables.htm)
Given that generally thermocouples have linear behavior, 2 points will suffice to determine the slope, 0ºC and 100ºC
0 ºC can be attained with an ice bath, mixing in a thermal container smashed ice, filled with water just to reach the top of the ice
100 ºC will no be exactly what we are looking for, since boiled water could be used, and the temperature dependes on altitude or pressure
To check your altitude: https://whatismyelevation.com/ (https://whatismyelevation.com/)
To check the temperature at water boils for a given altitude: https://www.omnicalculator.com/chemistry/boiling-point-altitude (https://www.omnicalculator.com/chemistry/boiling-point-altitude)
More on thermocouples: https://www.omega.com/en-us/resources/thermocouple-hub (https://www.omega.com/en-us/resources/thermocouple-hub)
So, if the meter has to be calibrated, not being an expert on the subject, I'd say that the DMM should just ask for correspondence voltage-temperature for this 2 points (0º C or F, and temperature for boiling water ºC or ºF). Provided this 2 point for a given type of thermocouple the DMM would extrapolate the complete table.
That would be the simple calibration possible, for the thermocouple used during the process. Noting that, even from the same type, can be slight deviations between thermocouples. If you have several thermocouples, verify for yourself that deviations between them probably will happen.
Without calibration, Siglent's best option was to "follow the tables".
Just my 2 cents
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Without calibration, Siglent's best option was to "follow the tables".
7 lines in your table yet 8 definitions in the meter Temp menu. ;)
Ideally we'd like Siglent to offer us at least a couple more user definitions and a simple method to define and save custom sensor definitions.
They do similar in other products so why not the SDM ?
Not yet heard back from HQ.
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The curve for the different TC types are usually known (unless one uses a non standard one). Most sensors use the type K. So no real need to measure the slope (if it is linear at all).
A weak point with the standard banana plugs is the cold junction compensation. Depending on the plugs / connectors used there can be some offset, as the actual cold juntion is usually outside and the sensor for the cold junction temperature is inside the meter. The exact desing and thermal conditions can introduce some offset, depending on the probe construction. So ideally one would have a way to adjust an offset (some up to 1-2 K equivalent voltage).
It is mainly the high temperature type B TC that don't really care and may even get away without cold junction compensation (the curve is essentially horizontal near room temperature).
Custom sensors could be a thing with NTCs. These are available with different resistance and different beta values.
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The DMM allow creating a custom sensor profile using a calibrated measuring device (as Mortymore have).
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I don't have the option "Custom Sensor" :-//
It's not mentioned in the manual either, but somehow it rings a bell... cause my mind tells me I read about it some time ago, somewhere.
Probably in this thread. Have to check that. But I don't see that option in my meter, anyway. :(
EDIT: Could that be an option in other meters in the SDM3000 series, but not for the SDM3055?
@ skander36, which meter do you have?
EDIT2: Seems that a similar situation was addressed about a 4-20mA custom sensor, missing from SDM3055: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3869129/#msg3869129 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3869129/#msg3869129)
EDIT3: After some reading... seems that the 3055 guys are still waiting for that option :popcorn:
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Sorry, I missed the fact that you have a 3055 model. Mine is a 3065X.
This might be the cause. I didn't know that 3055 does not have this option. Anyway this option wasn't in the 3065 prior to 3.01.01.03 if I'm remember correctly.
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Finally I got the "permission" to order four bench meters..
And finally a very last question:
What seriously speaks against the SDM3045X ?
I would just need the accuracy and bandwidth of a Fluke87 for the desk.
Nothing more...
Oh, and it should work stable, no freezings, no stuckings, just switching on and work with it, every day.
Could the SDM3045X handle this or not?
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Oh, and it should work stable, no freezings, no stuckings, just switching on and work with it, every day.
Could the SDM3045X handle this or not?
I've not seen too many reports of those problems with the SDM3045X. If you don't have to buy them all immediately you could try one for a while to see if it meets your needs.
Also, consider the SDM3055. It's only 26% more yet gives a half order of magnitude better resolution/precision. I have had mine for several months and use it everyday without any problems.
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Finally I got the "permission" to order four bench meters..
And finally a very last question:
What seriously speaks against the SDM3045X ?
I would just need the accuracy and bandwidth of a Fluke87 for the desk.
Nothing more...
Oh, and it should work stable, no freezings, no stuckings, just switching on and work with it, every day.
Could the SDM3045X handle this or not?
No problem if latest firmware is installed.
There are some idiosyncrasies with this model which to properly understand you need study this:
SDM3045X Ranging issues and why:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/)
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Recently got my self an sdm3065x-sc, and I gotta say that the fan is a bit loud for my taste. Has anyone tried to replace it with a noctua yet? If so, how did it go? I accidentally ripped the warranty sticker off when taking it out of the plastic bag it... |O
So I thought ill give it a try, but dunno how its going to affect the accuracy of the meter
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Recently got my self an sdm3065x-sc, and I gotta say that the fan is a bit loud for my taste. Has anyone tried to replace it with a noctua yet? If so, how did it go? I accidentally ripped the warranty sticker off when taking it out of the plastic bag it... |O
So I thought ill give it a try, but dunno how its going to affect the accuracy of the meter
Welcome to the forum.
A data point for you might be mods I did to SDS1104X-E for a customer to investigate lowering fan noise.
I cut the steel grille away from the fan for zero noticeable benefit. Customer brought and fitted a similar spec Noctua for zero appreciable advantage.
Muck with the fan by all means but don't expect the unit to meet factory spec if you do.
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Well, guess I wont touch it. Did it for the sds2104x plus and it got a lot quieter, dont really know if that was a good idea though :-//
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Well, guess I wont touch it. Did for the sds2104x plus and it got a lot quieter, dont really know if it that was a good idea though :-//
SDS2000X Plus is an interesting case as the later HD model is almost silent and one imagines the 12 bit capability would create more heat too. X Plus has a big PCB with lot of finned heat sinks on it too so maybe less flow through it would be okay but I'm inclined to trust what the designers have done for cooling.
Of course for your SDM3065X-SC there is a bit more HW inside than the non SC models which might impact on airflow so for the sake of temp stability for the LM399 Vref you are likely better to leave the fan stock until you know your instrument better.
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Finally I got the "permission" to order four bench meters..
And finally a very last question:
What seriously speaks against the SDM3045X ?
I would just need the accuracy and bandwidth of a Fluke87 for the desk.
Nothing more...
Oh, and it should work stable, no freezings, no stuckings, just switching on and work with it, every day.
Could the SDM3045X handle this or not?
No problem if latest firmware is installed.
There are some idiosyncrasies with this model which to properly understand you need study this:
SDM3045X Ranging issues and why:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/)
Ah, ok...
The range thing doesn´t worry me.
So I give it a try and order at least one for testing, when succesful the next three..
This test site will be transformed into a siglent exhibition stand. 8)
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This test site will be transformed into a siglent exhibition stand. 8)
He he
The package ordered yesterday has just arrived. So I also join the group of DMM by Siglent owners :)
I read this topic many times and wondered for a long time whether to buy SDM or something else. In the meantime, the prices of third-party multimeters have almost doubled :(
The price of SDM3065X in Poland has also increased significantly :( However, I found in one store at a price without increases (about 717 euro with 23% VAT and shipping) so I didn't think twice and bought it.
For now, the first test after unpacking, unfortunately I have to go to work, so probably more tests in the evening.
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Recently got my self an sdm3065x-sc, and I gotta say that the fan is a bit loud for my taste. Has anyone tried to replace it with a noctua yet? If so, how did it go? I accidentally ripped the warranty sticker off when taking it out of the plastic bag it... |O
So I thought ill give it a try, but dunno how its going to affect the accuracy of the meter
With my 3055, which was very loud too, I put in a Sunon Maglev with comparable air moving capability. It was much less noisy running at full 12V already. But there was a siginificant swoosh of a fan running too fast in ram air. I put in a 300 Ohm resistor, lowering the voltage to 7V. Now it's fine.
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Peter_O,
Thank you, good info!
Tks
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Hmm, I found the first problem with the SDM3065X.
The question is whether this problem occurs in other models and has anyone reported it to the manufacturer. The latest firmware is installed (V3.01.01.10).
If you select dual mode to measure voltage and current (behaves identically for DC and AC) and the wires are not connected (e.g. we want to cancel the measurement). The digital multimeter cannot measure the current and freezes (in this case it should show 0 A). Unable to exit to single mode, does not respond to attempts to change the function :-//
After something like this, you can only turn the multimeter off and on to solve the problem :(
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Hmm, I found the first problem with the SDM3065X.
The question is whether this problem occurs in other models and has anyone reported it to the manufacturer. The latest firmware is installed (V3.01.01.10).
If you select dual mode to measure voltage and current (behaves identically for DC and AC) and the wires are not connected (e.g. we want to cancel the measurement). The digital multimeter cannot measure the current and freezes (in this case it should show 0 A). Unable to exit to single mode, does not respond to attempts to change the function :-//
After something like this, you can only turn the multimeter off and on to solve the problem :(
Well look at that... it does the same thing on my 3055. I never really use dual mode (the relay drives me crazy) so I hadn't noticed it.
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Put the meter in manual mode (not autoranging), then it works. This bug was reported a rather long time ago, but no new firmware since then...
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OK thank you for the information.
The problem came up while testing the device, just after buying it, I play with it a bit to check all the functions and whether the purchased copy has any problems.
If other users are experiencing the problem, you can see that it is a firmware issue and not a hardware etc issue with my multimeter.
Put the meter in manual mode (not autoranging), then it works. This bug was reported a rather long time ago, but no new firmware since then...
In fact, a lot of time has passed since the last update, you can see that the manufacturer needs to be reminded of this.
It is a pity that the firmware in the SDM series does not have a high priority, because probably there is not much to count on adding new functionalities. It's a bit strange because these are the only Siglent multimeters. For example, the function present in Agilent/Keysight 34461A is a bit missing, i.e. changing the format of the displayed numbers (changing the dot to a comma and adding separator) - https://youtu.be/SObqPuUozNo?t=624
Especially the separator facilitates quick reading with more numbers on the screen.
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There are flaws in the firmware. Even such trifles as the "-" sign for negative values shifts the number on the display to the right. This can also fix it simply by formatting the output line.
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When buying this digital multimeter, I expected errors, but not in the style of hanging the device after selecting the measurement function :palm:
I reported the problem, I'll see what answer I get.
It's been 16 months since the last firmware update for the SDM3065X, so it's probably worth writing an e-mail to Siglent. Reminding the manufacturer that users are waiting for bug fixes - maybe it will change priorities and some developer will take care of it.
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When buying this digital multimeter, I expected errors....
I reported the problem, I'll see what answer I get.
It's been 16 months since the last firmware update for the SDM3065X, so it's probably worth writing an e-mail to Siglent. Reminding the manufacturer that users are waiting for bug fixes - maybe it will change priorities and some developer will take care of it.
I reported since almost 2 years about other issues to Siglent Germany support..... no sign no answer no feedback... only the Golden man left the company and sine more |O
as one man likes a reliable help / support form a company ... so be prepared :palm: :palm: :palm:
and good luck to get any new FW since 2 years .. may the priority is on new gear.
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I got a reply from support.
This is a know issue and will be solved with the next FW update.
In the meantime, if you switch the sequence of setting (main current / second voltage) it should work.
To be honest, I expected that answer.
I hope we won't have to wait a few more years for bug fixes in the firmware :popcorn:
btw Maybe tautech has some information about Siglent's plans for digital multimeter firmware.
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To be honest, I expected that answer.
I hope we won't have to wait a few more years for bug fixes in the firmware :popcorn:
How did you contact, by local Siglent in ...? or by ....?
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To be honest, I expected that answer.
I hope we won't have to wait a few more years for bug fixes in the firmware :popcorn:
How did you contact, by local Siglent in ...? or by ....?
SIGLENT Technologies Germany GmbH
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I recently contacted Siglent Europe through the contact form in their webpage
https://www.siglenteu.com/contact-us/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/contact-us/)
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I recently contacted Siglent Europe through the contact form in their webpage
https://www.siglenteu.com/contact-us/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/contact-us/)
You can also send an e-mail info-eu@siglent.com
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Which will come first, I buy SDM3055 or Siglent release new DMM series.
I have VOAC757, which producted almost half a century ago. :palm:
I definitely have to buy a new one.
I'm attracted to the SDM3055, but the problem is that it's been available since 2015.
In general, DMM releases aren't as frequent as oscilloscopes?
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The technology for the DMMs is relative mature. The 30+year old HP/KS3458 is still a good meter. A new designed 5.5 digit meter may not be that different from the SDM3055 - maybe a 5% lower BOM costs and power consumption.
8 years seems to be enough time for the firmware to get reasonable stable - seems the last update finally fixed most of the freeze at boot problems. I would more have a problem with a new meter and buggy firmware that may take years to get fixed. How robust a meter actually is needs time to tell and the SDM3055 seems to be not too bad.
There is always the chance that a new very competitive product comes out, that has enough impact to shift the prices down. However this is independent on how long the SDM3055 is out, it would effect the whole market. For a relative mature product the chances are not that high, though the chip crisis may stirr up things (require a new design because of laking parts) and there could be a lucky punch.
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Which will come first, I buy SDM3055 or Siglent release new DMM series.
You can always wait for something new, then you will never buy anything >:D
In the case of DMM, there are no big changes and, as someone has already written, new models do not appear as quickly as in the case of oscilloscopes, etc.
Personally, maybe I will point out some errors in SDM in this thread (and I will complain) :P
But that's because IMHO it's worth pushing the Siglent company, with a little willingness and tweaking the software, they can be very competitively priced DMMs.
Would I buy the SDM3065X a second time - probably yes. I knew about some mistakes. The one with the measurement hanging in Dual mode surprised and upset me a bit (because it is a visible error that should have been caught and fixed a long time ago). I also realize that I would have to pay more than twice as much for a digital multimeter from a reputable company...
All in all, I don't know if it's not a good idea, as in the case of other measuring devices, to start a separate thread with a list of issues to be corrected, etc. It would be a much clearer knowledge base about the problems that still exist and what needs to be improved. Unfortunately, reading this long topic, it's easy to miss something.
I'd love to do it, but IMHO it's better if someone who is on this forum more often (so he can update the list in the first post). Unfortunately, due to other obligations I have, it happens that I do not visit here for a long time.
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Tomud, thanks for identifying the lockup issue and reporting it. I think that is how my meter locked up because I was working with dual mode around the time it happened.
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I reported since almost 2 years about other issues to Siglent Germany support..... no sign no answer no feedback...
hmm on January 22nd I sent a reply to Siglent Germany. I thanked the answer and sent a few other comments I have about the firmware and what can be improved.
I also asked if you know when the new version of the software will be released, etc. An excerpt from my e-mail:
Dear ...,
Thank you for your answer.
...
...
I still have a question, is it possible to know the approximate release date of the new software? It's not about a specific date, but an approximation (month, several months, year).
...
...
Best regards,
...
Unfortunately, I have not received any reply to this e-mail :-//
It looks a bit bad... :phew: Even if you don't know, you can always reply "sorry we don't know the date" etc. :-//
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I reported since almost 2 years about other issues to Siglent Germany support..... no sign no answer no feedback...
hmm on January 22nd I sent a reply to Siglent Germany. I thanked the answer and sent a few other comments I have about the firmware and what can be improved.
I also asked if you know when the new version of the software will be released, etc. An excerpt from my e-mail:
Dear ...,
Thank you for your answer.
...
...
I still have a question, is it possible to know the approximate release date of the new software? It's not about a specific date, but an approximation (month, several months, year).
...
...
Best regards,
...
Unfortunately, I have not received any reply to this e-mail :-//
It looks a bit bad... :phew: Even if you don't know, you can always reply "sorry we don't know the date" etc. :-//
On my side it is now 2 years without a sign :palm: :palm: :palm: :-DD
May @Tautech has a better :box: channel
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On my side it is now 2 years without a sign :palm: :palm: :palm: :-DD
May @Tautech has a better :box: channel
In fact, I'm even willing to pay someone to kick the ass of the manager responsible for this product :-DD I wonder if Teledyne T3DMM6-5 has the same problems ;) Maybe you need to write an e-mail to LeCroy to fix bugs in the software :-DD
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In fact, I'm even willing to pay someone to kick the ass of the manager responsible for this product :-DD I wonder if Teledyne T3DMM6-5 has the same problems ;) Maybe you need to write an e-mail to LeCroy to fix bugs in the software :-DD
I did this for the SDG2K bug(s), what not changed any thing as no reply received.
May we have to understand the China mentality ... as no sign as not like to loose the here face as you will never get the answer as "NO"
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From another thread.....
My 3045 locked up again—simply measuring dc voltage and it locked in ‘overload’ power off and on resolved. Looking forward to some better firmware.
What version are you on ?
Latest is Version： V5.01.01.07R1
Please confirm boot settings ? Default or Last ?
For the last year or so every unit leaves here set to Last and as yet not been contacted by customers with boot problems. Something you might like to also try as if we can find settings that lead to freezes we have better info to give the SW engineers to provide a fix.
I have not changed the boot settings. It freezes up randomly while measuring dc voltage. I have 2 2045, only 1 freezes. Maybe I can get a replacement. Bought on amazon oct 24, 2022. I suspect its not a firmware issue.
Why, how ?
You haven't said what firmware version is installed in the one that freezes or if both your units are on the same version. :-//
Did you buy them both together ?
Have you checked the Sys Info page to see if they share the same HW build ?
Now, would you consider checking these things and reporting findings and while you're at it change both units boot settings to Last as I suggested earlier just to see if exercising the flash memory storing last used settings is better than just returning a Default boot.
You can access the Power On settings: Utility>Store/Recall>Power On toggles Default or Last, set to Last and monitor for freeze frequency better or worse than Default please.
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From another thread:
My 3045 locked up again—simply measuring dc voltage and it locked in ‘overload’ power off and on resolved. Looking forward to some better firmware.
What version are you on ?
Latest is Version： V5.01.01.07R1
Please confirm boot settings ? Default or Last ?
For the last year or so every unit leaves here set to Last and as yet not been contacted by customers with boot problems. Something you might like to also try as if we can find settings that lead to freezes we have better info to give the SW engineers to provide a fix.
Thank you for looking into this.
I didn't, I live eat and breathe this stuff.
I did not change the boot setting and it was set to factory.
Yes, they come like this....that is the point, we change things to see if we can isolate the fault.
I changed it to last.
:-+
I don't know what that setting does, but from your comment, I am interpreting that as a suggestion to boot from last to reduce problems.
Boot to Last just does exactly that, boots to last used settings whereas Factory/default boots to VDC with autorange settings.
I note that it has booted without problems, and froze up later, but I am willing to try and see if that helps. Since the problem is intermittent, not sure of a way of knowing that its fixed...
Twice I have asked which firmware version you have installed and twice you have ignored this question.
How can the SW engineers even know which version you are using to start trying to replicate your issue ? :-//
I strongly suggest you supply this info and start taking notes of what settings are in use when you get a freeze.
And, BTW, are you using the power button to turn the meter to OFF or switching the mains ?
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I have the latest version of firmware. It locks into overload when measuring dc voltage. It is intermittent—I figure its a hardware issue and they will either give me a new one or tell me there is nothing wrong with it. I use the meter button to turn on and off. I will look at the hardware versions tomorrow. The 3045 that does not lock up has the current version of firmware.
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I have the latest version of firmware. It locks into overload when measuring dc voltage. It is intermittent—I figure its a hardware issue and they will either give me a new one or tell me there is nothing wrong with it. I use the meter button to turn on and off. I will look at the hardware versions tomorrow. The 3045 that does not lock up has the current version of firmware.
Good, thanks.
And you imply the unit that does not freeze has another firmware version, that's not clear and maybe you can confirm please.
What's in my mind at this time is to either reinstall the latest firmware in the unit that randomly locks or we run our USB recovery package as that may do something different to the OS than just installing the firmware.
If you want to attempt to crack this send me a PM with your email and we'll work with the recovery package with you.
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There is a new Firmware available for the SDM3055
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3055-series (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3055-series)
2023/4/25 1.01.01.27R2
1. Add and optimize the manual calibration function
2. Solve the socket communication in multiple cycles of
open/close, may not respond to the problem
3. Fix the problem that the "READ" command does not match
the description in the programming manual
4. Fix the key test screen no prompt
5. Optimize the connectivity test buzzer response speed issues
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Update is for 3065X too, I noticed mention of user calibration in the update so thought I had better take a look, they have changed to a ONSCREEN calibration system !
User calibration now looks MUCH easier, well done Siglent for revisiting the user calibration method and making it better!
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Would you mind updating your Cal webpage Scott and adding a link to the firmware page where any of the 3 models can be selected ?
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?CateIdss=5
TIA
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I normally use this page, as it is easier to identify what is going on: https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/
And specifically for the SDM series: https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/
I might do a video about using the new calibration method, I have my SDM3065X and Advantest 8.5 digit multimeter warming up right now :-)
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I have recorded some footage showing how to use the new user calibration method, Siglent implemented my suggestion and it certainly is much better than the previous method which I did videos about.
You can even choose to only recalibrate one range if you wish !
Video will be out soon.
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For the 3055, the dual measurement bug (making it hang, mentioned above) seems solved now.
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Yes, I can confirm, on my SDM3055 the DUAL Measurement Bug is solved with the new firmware.
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New user calibration video for V3.01.01.12R1 is done:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZZg605ioI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZZg605ioI)
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I'm particularly pleased to see 3.01.01.12R1 includes:
5. Optimize the connectivity test buzzer response speed issues
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Wow, thank you all for the new information about the SDM3055.
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I'm particularly pleased to see 3.01.01.12R1 includes:
5. Optimize the connectivity test buzzer response speed issues
We have some stock of all models and all require tests before and after to quantify the improvement....something like how Joe Smith checks DMM continuity, with a varyied pulse width and fastest frequency it can detect before becoming a continuous beep. Maybe they are now up to being able to play Van Halen. :D
Done with an AWG. ;)
Sometime in the next day or so....watch this space.
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Had the idea of just taking an audio recording of probe contact tick noise and beep before and after the upgrade.
But as you're on the scientific path already, ... :D
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Had the idea of just taking an audio recording of probe contact tick noise and beep before and after the upgrade.
But as you're on the scientific path already, ... :D
Results coming soon....just writing a report for the Siglent DMM team.
Let me just say they won't play Van Halen. :(
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And here is a summary of the Continuity performance gains from the new firmware:
SDM3045X
2x performance gain to 12 Hz fastest frequency reliably detected without skipping. (50% DC squarewave)
65ms Min Pulse width reliably detected without skipping. (2 Hz rate)
SDM3055
Little to no improvement.
Max freq = 7 Hz
Min Pulse = 50ms = 10% DC
SDM3065X
Here is where the largest gains have been with a 6 fold improvement in Continuity performance. :o
Max freq = 13 Hz
Min Pulse = 35ms = 7% DC
Test were done mimicking Joe Smith's Continuity tests on DMM's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlsSnkTb63w&list=PLZSS2ajxhiQAfyFum1PEDE-zlQ0Kmp0yI&index=28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlsSnkTb63w&list=PLZSS2ajxhiQAfyFum1PEDE-zlQ0Kmp0yI&index=28)
I have asked for further improvement to the limits of the HW......
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I also tested my 3065X using Ian Johnston's DMM tester, I got reliable continuity beeps at 30ms.
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Getting a reponse time in the 30-60 ms range may mean that the main ADC is used. In this case the speed / integration time setting could have an effect and a somewhat faster response should be possible.
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The upgrade has run well.
Non-scientifically it seems to be a improvement indeed.
Impressions attached before and after.
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SDM3065X
Here is where the largest gains have been with a 6 fold improvement in Continuity performance. :o
Max freq = 13 Hz
Min Pulse = 35ms = 7% DC
I installed the update on my SDM3065X. I didn't try to quantify the difference, but I'd believe 6x. Poking around a bit, the continuity mode now seems to work fast enough to keep up. Before, I had to remember to wait a moment for the meter to catch up with the probes. It's not the most critical bug fixed in the years I've had this meter, but day-to-day it'll probably be the most satisfying improvement.
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About SDM3055, quick check after firmware update:
- still 220.000 count, not 240.000
- when in dual display mode, still can't be able to select both frequency and period
+ when in dual display mode, auto-ranging with dual display (1:V.DC, 2:V.AC) is OK going from 220mV.DC (219.999mV) range to the expected 2V.DC (0.22000V) , when previously jumped to 1000V.DC (000.220V) range
+ when in Temperature, now the 3055 also has the "custom sensor" option (something to learn how to use, now)
Still have to check other issues, for example, the freeze when in dual display mode 1:I.AC, 2:I.DC
Keep up the good work Siglent, "This is the way"
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I can confirm, that the new firmware from this site:
https://www.siglent.com/download/firmware/?ProId=25 (https://www.siglent.com/download/firmware/?ProId=25)
also works on a SDM3045x (then working as a SDM3055x-e with one extra digit) and is offering the same improvements as on the other SDM DMMs.
Though the response time on the continuity performance did not change dramatically. I have not measured it, but my feeling is that there is at most just a few % improvement. Thus just barley noticeable.
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The Temperature feature in the SDM3055 not only had "custom sensor" added but also a new feature "Rel Temp (Int/Ext)" that enables the user to tweak the value if "Ext" option is set.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1774544;image)
This allowed me to quickly match the ambient temperature reading of a Fluke 54II thermometer. But more is yet to be figured out, since unfortunately Siglent hasn't provided (so far) an updated manual.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1774550;image)
The SDM3055 also has the Calibration option, and TheDefpom in his video mentions the 10G input Z might not be present in the other SDM models other than the 3065, but at least SDM3055 already had that feature, in the 200mV and 2V range.
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Is there a special reason the 3045X can't dual view with both resistance and capacitance?
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Is there a special reason the 3045X can't dual view with both resistance and capacitance?
RTFM for what combos of dual view are available. ;)
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Is there a special reason the 3045X can't dual view with both resistance and capacitance?
RTFM for what combos of dual view are available. ;)
How is that a helpful response? I asked WHY it can't do it. The Shannon tweezers can do it. But this GIANT bench meter that costs 4 times as much can't?
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The DMM has only 1 terminal for the test current. So a combined resistance and capacitance would be for a single part / DUT. The DMMs have a more primitive capacitance function, that may not be really suitable to look at mixed parts that are neither pure capacitors not pure resistors, but something in between.
It would neverthe less be suitable if the meter could measure capacitance with ESR or leakage capacitance. It could be tricky and limited in the range how this can work with the existing hardware. Chances are it could at least for some parts / ranges.
The tweezers are made with the main function to test parts, more like a LCR meter and often they can do mixed part, though still not clear how well.
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The DMM has only 1 terminal for the test current. So a combined resistance and capacitance would be for a single part / DUT. The DMMs have a more primitive capacitance function, that may not be really suitable to look at mixed parts that are neither pure capacitors not pure resistors, but something in between.
It would neverthe less be suitable if the meter could measure capacitance with ESR or leakage capacitance. It could be tricky and limited in the range how this can work with the existing hardware. Chances are it could at least for some parts / ranges.
The tweezers are made with the main function to test parts, more like a LCR meter and often they can do mixed part, though still not clear how well.
That's interesting. It's funny how little innovation there is with these devices. Make the screen look pretty, but let's keep the actual functionality 30 years old.
I haven't tried the tweezers dual cap/res function on a lot of things, but it works perfectly on their little test board. The Siglent just gets confused on that spot.
My 12 year old Amprobe 37XR-A can read inductance even though it's not an LCR meter, but try finding that on another DMM. The tweezers can do that too of course. You'd think the size of the tweezers would be a limiting factor, but the industry seems to think the bigger a device gets, the less it should be able to do.
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The SDM3055 and SMD3065 are more about accuracy with the standard functions of a DMM and not so much about getting many functions. The SDM3045 is more like a SW crippeld cheap version of the 3055 to also cover the 4.5 digit range a complete new design.
Already the capacitance range with quite some DMMs is more of a hack, using the HW made for the ohm function to also measure capacitance with a limited accuracy. One weak point here is that the frequency is not fixed, but usually changing with the range and capacitor. So a nice 2nd display for the capacitance could be the frequencey actually used for the test.
The mixed R and C is capability is really something for a LCR meter. Normal DMMs usually don't provide that function as it would need a different front end to the normal design. A reasonable LCR function (especially the smaller capacitance) can be tricky to combine with good protection against high input voltage. The LCR meters usually don't have a CAT 2 rating and may already blow from a capacitor charges to only a few 10s of volts.
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Is there a special reason the 3045X can't dual view with both resistance and capacitance?
RTFM for what combos of dual view are available. ;)
How is that a helpful response? I asked WHY it can't do it. The Shannon tweezers can do it. But this GIANT bench meter that costs 4 times as much can't?
Few if any general purpose bench meters offer LCR measurements, LCR meters are specialised instruments.
You don't need lecture me on the value of smart tweezers as I've owned a pair way way before they become well known and purchased particularly for their LCR capabilities and usefulness for SMD.
Even today with nearing 2 decades of use I would replace them in an instant probably with Shannon tweezers rather than any other current instrument for my LCR needs which summed up are DER5000 no thanks, dedicated bench LCR meter, again no thanks.
Once you've used a good set of smart tweezers for a good while and their accuracy meets your needs there is no going back as they are so fast and convenient.
As sick as I am for datasheets, they are the one and only spec for an instrument's capability and the only guide apart from a user manual of what an instrument can do.
SDM models make no claim to provide LCR measurements and never have, sorry if that was an expectation for you and all I can recommend is you get to know the Shannon tweezers and grow to love these special little instruments like I do.
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We consider the capacitance capability in a DMM as an aid rather than an absolute measurement capability, good for "seeing" if a cap is any good, but not characterizing such, altho one can achieve some reasonable results in certain cases.
Same for tweezers, and they cover the inductance as well, but measuring a component in-circuit and expecting an accurate representation is generally wishful thinking. These are great for trouble shooting, and agree they should be in everyones toolkit, or at least the tweezer cable sets that work with the quality LCR meters, altho they aren't as convenient as the standalone tweezers.
One must realize that the DMM measures DUT capacitance by measuring the charge/discharge cycle characteristics with a rectangular excitation and computes the capacitance based upon this, while the quality LCR meter excites the DUT with a sine wave (at various frequencies) and measures the DUT Voltage and Current with high resolution. These measurement V and I results are Vectors (Magnitude & Angle) and utilized to compute the various DUT parameters which include a host of useful parameters and not just capacitance, nor resistance, nor inductance, but various combinations of such.
For general accurate representations of components these must be measured in a standalone controlled electrical environment and/or fixture, and properly calibrated with the environment/fixture effects removed. For the DMM capacitance capability this requires a single Cal by "nulling" out the residual cable capacitance, whereas the LCR Meters and Tweezers require a 2 Cal procedure, Open and Short, some at various frequencies. Also, some quality LCR meters have an additional Ref Cal procedure with a known Precision Reference Device(s), all at various frequencies, and obviously intended for precision work!
The DMM and LCR meters are completely different instruments, which employ completely different techniques and intended for completely different use cases, and Tweezers may help fill the gap between.
Anyway, having a quality DMM, LCR Meter and Tweezers usually covers all bases, as always YMMV!!
Best,
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That's great info, thank you. Here's my question: how is the Amprobe 37XR-A doing all of it? (No, it doesn't do any dual display stuff) Did they combine separate LCR and DMM electronics in there? The + probe does have to change to a different terminal for L,C, and A compared to R,Diode,V.
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That's great info, thank you. Here's my question: how is the Amprobe 37XR-A doing all of it? (No, it doesn't do any dual display stuff) Did they combine separate LCR and DMM electronics in there? The + probe does have to change to a different terminal for L,C, and A compared to R,Diode,V.
Did you not check out the user manual or spec sheet before buying the meter? Perhaps you'd be happier sending it back and getting the Amprobe.
It should be obvious to even a complete newbie that putting more functionality into any device adds to the price, especially if you want that functionality to have a high degree of precision and accuracy. It's a trade off. I think Siglent were aiming to build a competent DMM and not a swiss army knife. Jack of all trades and master of none. Measure inductance to 40H!!! :palm: Who TLF needs that? Where do you even find a 40H inductor? On a fusion reactor? :scared:
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That's great info, thank you. Here's my question: how is the Amprobe 37XR-A doing all of it? (No, it doesn't do any dual display stuff) Did they combine separate LCR and DMM electronics in there? The + probe does have to change to a different terminal for L,C, and A compared to R,Diode,V.
Did you not check out the user manual or spec sheet before buying the meter? Perhaps you'd be happier sending it back and getting the Amprobe.
It should be obvious to even a complete newbie that putting more functionality into any device adds to the price, especially if you want that functionality to have a high degree of precision and accuracy. It's a trade off. I think Siglent were aiming to build a competent DMM and not a swiss army knife. Jack of all trades and master of none. Measure inductance to 40H!!! :palm: Who TLF needs that? Where do you even find a 40H inductor? On a fusion reactor? :scared:
I've had the Amprobe for over 12 years, it works great. Most inductors I've used it for were between 400 to 700uH.
Guess what? I would pay more for a meter that has those extra functions. But guess what else? You can spend $400 or $40000 and still not get those functions. I would guess the primary reason not to offer them together in a $500 meter, is because you can offer them separately in 2 $500 meters.
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I find it hilarious that you prefer to attack me rather than add to the conversation.
Did I attack you? How, by asking if you checked out the specs? You seem surprised by the lack of some functionality.
I thought I was attacking the Amprobe.
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That's great info, thank you. Here's my question: how is the Amprobe 37XR-A doing all of it? (No, it doesn't do any dual display stuff) Did they combine separate LCR and DMM electronics in there? The + probe does have to change to a different terminal for L,C, and A compared to R,Diode,V.
We don't know how it does it and how well it does it. You are the one that have it.
I would suggest to connect oscilloscope in parallel with inductor during measurement and try to measure several different inductors (with large spread of inductance). Waveform might be a clue how they do it.
As many said already, handheld multimeters very rarely do LC measurements because circuitry needed is not shared with other measurements. Meters that measure C (capacitance) do it by reusing constant current source that is used for resistance measurements and then you only need a comparator and time measurement (already available too) to calculate capacity from charge time... So ading C measurement is trivial LC is not. Especially with good accuracy and wide range...
All of that is also followed by never cheaper decent LCR meters.... I have UNI-T UT612 that works very good. I paid less than 200 USD for it new and it is really accurate.
If you are not working with high energy, you can get very decent multimeters for less than 50 USD and buy one of good cheap LCR meters, both for less than 200 USD...
That is one thing.
Other thing is that sometimes it is much faster if you have several tools instead of one that you need to switch back and forth all the time... Like having two cordless drills one with a drill and other with a screwdriver bit. Grab one handle and drill, change to other screw in.. It is just faster that remounting drill and screwdriver bit back and forth all the time.....
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Meters that measure C (capacitance) do it by reusing constant current source that is used for resistance measurements and then you only need a comparator and time measurement (already available too) to calculate capacity from charge time... So ading C measurement is trivial LC is not. Especially with good accuracy and wide range...
What's the limiting factor that makes it so the 3045X can't display R and C at the same time? Is it because the meter is already reading V and I to calculate C?
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For not showing C and R (ESR) the limit is likely with the software. In addition the hardware may not easy allow for a good accuracy or some more tricky limitations on the range (e.g. may not work with small capacitors). The ADC in the 3055 and 3045 is not super fast, so it may not work to implement an ESR measurement that is worth having it and not causing more complications / confusions than it actually helps. I don't have very much hope to see this function as an upgrade from Sigilent. It is nothing you find in a normal meter. Even cheap LCR meters may not show more than just capacitance or inductance or resistance but not support intermediate parts.
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For not showing C and R (ESR) the limit is likely with the software. In addition the hardware may not easy allow for a good accuracy or some more tricky limitations on the range (e.g. may not work with small capacitors). The ADC in the 3055 and 3045 is not super fast, so it may not work to implement an ESR measurement that is worth having it and not causing more complications / confusions than it actually helps. I don't have very much hope to see this function as an upgrade from Sigilent. It is nothing you find in a normal meter. Even cheap LCR meters may not show more than just capacitance or inductance or resistance but not support intermediate parts.
The test board that I got with the Shannon tweezers had a resistor and a capacitor in series (think it was 10nF + 10K). The tweezers show both values, but I guess that's similar to ESR since it measures Rs either way. This whole thought process started because of that, and the 3045X being able to read C, and totally unable to read R in that case. I guess that's where the LCR wins.
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Interestingly although I knew my ST3 tweezers had ESR capability when I brought it, ESR measurements way back then were not as popular as they are today and certainly not the main reason I purchased however it's one of the measurements I now use most. ::)
But ESR is the dual measurement when in Auto mode something I highly recommended Shannon also implement when he was prototyping the ST42.
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Interestingly although I knew my ST3 tweezers had ESR capability when I brought it, ESR measurements way back then were not as popular as they are today and certainly not the main reason I purchased however it's one of the measurements I now use most. ::)
But ESR is the dual measurement when in Auto mode something I highly recommended Shannon also implement when he was prototyping the ST42.
Well, they did, so thanks for that. 😉
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I'm happy with the 3045X in general so far, but I'm disappointed that Siglent is shipping units with expired calibration certificates. This seems to be a common thing on Amazon. My cert says 2019. It's not Amazon's fault, the shipping label from Siglent says April 2023 on it. Siglent is shipping them out this way.
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I'm happy with the 3045X in general so far, but I'm disappointed that Siglent is shipping units with expired calibration certificates. This seems to be a common thing on Amazon. My cert says 2019. It's not Amazon's fault, the shipping label from Siglent says April 2023 on it. Siglent is shipping them out this way.
Were they discounted ?
Was it supplied with the latest firmware installed ?
Oh that's right, it's now a SDM3055X-E, correct ?
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but I'm disappointed that Siglent is shipping units with expired calibration certificates.
If these certificates are as detailed as the ones Siglent includes with the oscilloscopes, it doesn't really matter.... ;)
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Were they discounted ?
Was it supplied with the latest firmware installed ?
Oh that's right, it's now a SDM3055X-E, correct ?
Full price. Doesn't matter what I do with the firmware, they should have at least 2 months of cal time left when they sell them. 2 out of 12 ain't bad, right? But 4 years old for full price? Come on. Mind you, the cert doesn't do anything for me, but that's a value added thing being fully negated by years.
but I'm disappointed that Siglent is shipping units with expired calibration certificates.
If these certificates are as detailed as the ones Siglent includes with the oscilloscopes, it doesn't really matter.... ;)
It only matters because it's included in the price of the item. They're sold as having valid calibration certificates, which they don't, because they're expired.
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Important!:
For SDM3045X only: After now, until further notice, only valid data sheet is rev.: EN_04A
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/2587/?tmstv=1684220107 (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/2587/?tmstv=1684220107)
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Important!:
For SDM3045X only: After now, until further notice, only valid data sheet is rev.: EN_04A
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/2587/?tmstv=1684220107 (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/2587/?tmstv=1684220107)
The datasheet has some "incongruences"
"Product Overview
SDM3045X is a 4½ digit digital (60000 count)"
But in the...
"Main Features
Real 4½ digit (66000 count) readings resolution"
I believe the later is correct.
And they still show a picture of the rear, with the "Extension Card Option", that I think it's non existente.
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OP updated with a typical recovery procedure video for all of these meters and further comments about recovery added.
Running the latest firmware much reduces the need for any such recovery procedure and its inconvenience.
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It´s done, I´ve ordered 4pcs SDM3045X... 8)
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Hello, I'm a happy owner of SDM3055-SC
Regarding firmware upgrade from V1.01.01.25 to V1.01.01.27R2 I have spotted some bugs that I would like to know if I'm the only one :-)
After upgrade I have problem with USB and VX11 connection using SC card on SDM.
I can connect and scan voltage but when I start scanning Temp or capacitance the scanning part stops (hang) before execute first measure and I have to restart windows 10 and the SDM.
I have tried this on two win10 pc with exactly same crash on both (using EasyDMM 1.02.01.03)
Before upgrade I could connect and use USB and VX11 and scan Temp measures
The reason for why I'm upgrading is that SDM doesn’t show me accurate Temp measures, I have 12 termo devices to scan and they work right on my FLUKE but not in SDM. In latest upgrade I see some custom features that might help me out.
I have also noticed slower USB communications during voltage scanning. I get communications error 21400 and “An unhandled Microsoft .NET Framework exception occurred in [21400] EasyDMM.exe”
I also feel that accurry of type T Thermocouple for range -60 to +260 celcius is showing higher levels of +2 to +4 decreses on TITS90.
On SDM the file8 TITS90 always jumps back to File1 BITS90 after changes to other measures like voltage and power off and on.
Has anyone tried to use Scan Temp with new firmware 27R2 ?
Thank you all for very helping information in this thread :-)
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It´s done, I´ve ordered 4pcs SDM3045X... 8)
Arrived...
Quick check after unpackaging, done the firmwareupgrade on all four (all got the previous version), now they´re ready for external calibration before we can use them.
Nice building quality, I´m playing with the thoughts to buy one or two for my home equipment. ;)
Also nice and never seen before, the warning tape on the mains socket...Good! :-+
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Also nice and never seen before, the warning tape on the mains socket...Good! :-+
2 out of the 6 Siglent units I bought in the last year came wit this. Maybe people are either, blowing them up or, complaining they are not working, too often for Siglent's liking. These would be people that should not be buying this sort of thing .. perhaps.
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Also nice and never seen before, the warning tape on the mains socket...Good! :-+
2 out of the 6 Siglent units I bought in the last year came wit this. Maybe people are either, blowing them up or, complaining they are not working, too often for Siglent's liking. These would be people that should not be buying this sort of thing .. perhaps.
Always Siglent equipment with linear PSU's come with warning tape to set the correct voltage over the IEC socket.
We set them to NZ 230VAC when doing our PD checks.
China is 220VAC so that's what everything comes set for however I do remember some US member here snagged one cheap from a US seller as not working.....it did and perfectly when the selectors were set to 110VAC ! :-DD
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Mine have all come set to the right voltage. Perhaps my supplier ran out of the stickers for a while as I bought the first 4 of them over a short period of time. I actually don't know who does the actual setting, Siglent NA or my local dealer. :-// So, yeah .. it is as it is.
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I have a sdm3065X that I got about 3 years ago, it's been my main DMM, hard to believe it's that old already. How would it compare to then ? I'm in no rush to have it cal'd, not for what the locals charge.
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I have a sdm3065X that I got about 3 years ago, it's been my main DMM, hard to believe it's that old already. How would it compare to then ? I'm in no rush to have it cal'd, not for what the locals charge.
With the latest firmware a simple user cal was added so if you have some accurate standards you can now more easily tweak it for it to be more precise and if you bungle that simply return to the factory cal.
Defpom has an investigate of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZZg605ioI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZZg605ioI)
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@Tautech
Such a question out of curiosity. Does Siglent have any service that can perform factory calibration (of course, we are talking about a paid service in some time) ?
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I would think the distributor for your area should be set up to do calibrations.
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@Tautech
Such a question out of curiosity. Does Siglent have any service that can perform factory calibration (of course, we are talking about a paid service in some time) ?
AFAIK both Siglent Germany and USA have inhouse Cal facilities, US certainly do but you need double check with Augsburg, Germany.
info-eu@siglent.com
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Hello, I'm a happy owner of SDM3055-SC
Regarding firmware upgrade from V1.01.01.25 to V1.01.01.27R2 I have spotted some bugs that I would like to know if I'm the only one :-)
After upgrade I have problem with USB and VX11 connection using SC card on SDM.
I can connect and scan voltage but when I start scanning Temp or capacitance the scanning part stops (hang) before execute first measure and I have to restart windows 10 and the SDM.
I have tried this on two win10 pc with exactly same crash on both (using EasyDMM 1.02.01.03)
Before upgrade I could connect and use USB and VX11 and scan Temp measures
The reason for why I'm upgrading is that SDM doesn’t show me accurate Temp measures, I have 12 termo devices to scan and they work right on my FLUKE but not in SDM. In latest upgrade I see some custom features that might help me out.
I have also noticed slower USB communications during voltage scanning. I get communications error 21400 and “An unhandled Microsoft .NET Framework exception occurred in [21400] EasyDMM.exe”
I also feel that accurry of type T Thermocouple for range -60 to +260 celcius is showing higher levels of +2 to +4 decreses on TITS90.
On SDM the file8 TITS90 always jumps back to File1 BITS90 after changes to other measures like voltage and power off and on.
Has anyone tried to use Scan Temp with new firmware 27R2 ?
Thank you all for very helping information in this thread :-)
Hi
Has anyone tried V1.01.01.27R2 for SDM3055 ?
This software is very troubled when using scanner card.
Please read my prev post from May 30 if you have tried this firmware update.
Thanks
Daniel
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Is there any way to report firmware bugs to siglent? On my 3065X I noticed that if you use the hardware buttons to set the voltage range to a fixed 20V then the Impedence setting is not there. If you use the software buttons under the screen to get there you can select the high impedence mode. For the lower ranges it works as it should.
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Is there any way to firmware bugs to siglent? On my 3065X I noticed that if you use the hardware buttons to set the voltage range to a fixed 20V then the Impedence setting is not there. If you use the software buttons under the screen to get there you can select the high impedence mode. For the lower ranges it works as it should.
This is perfectly normal as the Hi-Z mode is only available up to 20V (on the SDM3065X model, in other models up to 2V). So you cannot logically set it to auto mode which covers all measurement ranges including those that do not support Hi-Z.
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Is there any way to firmware bugs to siglent? On my 3065X I noticed that if you use the hardware buttons to set the voltage range to a fixed 20V then the Impedence setting is not there. If you use the software buttons under the screen to get there you can select the high impedence mode. For the lower ranges it works as it should.
This is perfectly normal as the Hi-Z mode is only available up to 20V (on the SDM3065X model, in other models up to 2V). So you cannot logically set it to auto mode which covers all measurement ranges including those that do not support Hi-Z.
It doesnt work on manual range. It is depending on wether you use the exclusive range buttons or the softbuttons to get to the manual 20V range. The first one does not give you the option, the second one does. For the smaller ranges it works as expected. Here is a video to show it:
https://youtu.be/PVohYN5pQqI (https://youtu.be/PVohYN5pQqI)
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Anyone know the max safe output from the front-panel USB port ? I have an HP Prime calculator, that for some reason, won't charge from my mobo USB3.0 port, or any other (maybe the cable), but it did from my SDM3065X.
But I didn't want to leave it, it recommends a 2A charger, even a lightning USB3 port I think.
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Anyone know the max safe output from the front-panel USB port ? I have an HP Prime calculator, that for some reason, won't charge from my mobo USB3.0 port, or any other (maybe the cable), but it did from my SDM3065X.
But I didn't want to leave it, it recommends a 2A charger, even a lightning USB3 port I think.
2A is a lot to ask from a mobo USB port. I think most mobo USB ports are around 0.5A max output. I'd say your DMM is an expensive power adapter in this case. 😉
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Anyone know the max safe output from the front-panel USB port ?
Not off the top of my head however FYI, a member here with a Siglent DSO had the USB power fail and the scope behave strangely due to the USB port overload protection. After a reboot things returned to normal.
I can't say/don't know if the SDM3k product line uses a similar USB port overcurrent protection scheme but can find out in a day or so.
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Yeah I should get an adapter board or cable for USB back to 5V directly from my computer's PSU. I have chargers, but none of them are very good, and not compared to a real PSU
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Yeah I should get an adapter board or cable for USB back to 5V directly from my computer's PSU. I have chargers, but none of them are very good, and not compared to a real PSU
If the only purpose is charging, I would leave your more expensive equipment out of it. I use these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P933OJC/ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P933OJC/) - that does up to 2.4A per port...and it's $20.
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It doesnt work on manual range. It is depending on wether you use the exclusive range buttons or the softbuttons to get to the manual 20V range. The first one does not give you the option, the second one does. For the smaller ranges it works as expected. Here is a video to show it:
https://youtu.be/PVohYN5pQqI (https://youtu.be/PVohYN5pQqI)
@delvo This way I don't switch ranges (I've always used the Range button below the LCD screen). In fact, we have a bug in the firmware, probably related to other models where the HI-Z mode is only available on the 200mV and 2V ranges. However, it is missing and turns off in the 20V range.
@Tautech Can you report another SDM3065X bug to Siglent? This applies to the lack of HI-Z mode (10G ohm) when measuring DCV when we switch ranges with the "+" and "-" buttons, it occurs on the 20V range. However, using the button under the LCD screen to change the measuring range, everything is OK (HI-Z mode is available on the 200mV, 2V and 20V ranges). Just like in the video attached earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvqvl1Qzmno (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvqvl1Qzmno)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVohYN5pQqI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVohYN5pQqI)
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@delvo
I personally reported the bug to Siglent and it was acknowledged and forwarded for resolution. I have to admit that this time communication from Siglent Europe awas exemplary. The error report was sent to other company branches (Siglent NA, Siglent China).
It remains to wait for the new software, we'll see how quickly the problem will be solved this time (I hope it won't be another two years :scared: ).
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Our four SDM3045X are back from external calibration, "flawless"... ;)
When I´ve erased some "critical parts" (Names, Adresses,etc), I´ll upload one or two (they are all very close together) protocols here, just for information.
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One protocol, only the values are shown. 8)
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Hi folks, quick question (I've searched this great thread and on the Net as well, no luck) - I just got a new SDM3065X (not -SC model) here in Canada from RCC Electronics, firmware shows as "3.02.01.12R1", while the latest from SiglentNA is 3.01.01.12R1
Does anybody know what that means? Did I get some newer hardware revision which requires a separate branch of FW versions?.. The calibration certificate is dated March 18, 2023. HW version shows as 02-02-00-05-00. Any thoughts?
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Did I get some newer hardware revision which requires a separate branch of FW versions?.. The calibration certificate is dated March 18, 2023. HW version shows as 02-02-00-05-00. Any thoughts?
It's definitely very new. My SDM came brand new from Amazon, supplied by SiglentNA, with a 4 year old cal certificate.
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Hi folks, quick question (I've searched this great thread and on the Net as well, no luck) - I just got a new SDM3065X (not -SC model) here in Canada from RCC Electronics, firmware shows as "3.02.01.12R1", while the latest from SiglentNA is 3.01.01.12R1
Does anybody know what that means? Did I get some newer hardware revision which requires a separate branch of FW versions?.. The calibration certificate is dated March 18, 2023. HW version shows as 02-02-00-05-00. Any thoughts?
None at all but enjoy.
All FW versions account for all HW versions at this time.
We could possibly be seeing an OS upgrade for these coming soon. :-//
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Hi folks, quick question (I've searched this great thread and on the Net as well, no luck) - I just got a new SDM3065X (not -SC model) here in Canada from RCC Electronics, firmware shows as "3.02.01.12R1", while the latest from SiglentNA is 3.01.01.12R1
Does anybody know what that means? Did I get some newer hardware revision which requires a separate branch of FW versions?.. The calibration certificate is dated March 18, 2023. HW version shows as 02-02-00-05-00. Any thoughts?
None at all but enjoy.
All FW versions account for all HW versions at this time.
We could possibly be seeing an OS upgrade for these coming soon. :-//
Same here - long, busy day at work, beautiful gift waiting for me at home - and I can barely enjoy it, forget about having any thoughts :-). Now, the weekend WILL come, that's when I WILL enjoy the new tool! Oh, that smell of the new equipment! :-)
BTW, the probes are not too bad - maybe they updated them as well? Flexible, silicone, AWG18, with "Siglent" on them - and resistance (round trip, in 2W mode, one tip touching the other) = ~0.05 Ohm. Not bad, I think.
Thanks, tautech! Have a great time of day!
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What kind of solder do they use on Siglent stuff and modern test equipment in general ? Will BGA solder joints start to fail after so much time, like on video-cards and motherboards ? What sort of lifespan would the joints have if they are modern non-leaded solders ?
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@al777 just a shot in the dark. could you test if this bug is fixed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVohYN5pQqI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVohYN5pQqI)
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@al777 just a shot in the dark. could you test if this bug is fixed?
Unfortunately, I don't think so yet. It seems that too little time has passed since the bug was reported to Siglent for them to fix it and make the firmware available for production devices (available DMMs in stock of distributors). Unfortunately, when I reported this bug, Siglent didn't know about it. It was only after the notification that it was possible to repeat it in Siglent NA and report it to the R&D department.
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What kind of solder do they use on Siglent stuff and modern test equipment in general ? Will BGA solder joints start to fail after so much time, like on video-cards and motherboards ? What sort of lifespan would the joints have if they are modern non-leaded solders ?
Pretty much everything today is made with tree hugger soy boy wannabe solder with no lead in it.
REAL solder contains LEAD and tin, and a little silver if it's for vintage Tektronix gear.
WoD
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REAL solder contains LEAD and tin, and a little silver if it's for vintage Tektronix gear.
Real solder has stem cells and unicorn blood in it.
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REAL solder contains LEAD and tin, and a little silver if it's for vintage Tektronix gear.
Real solder has stem cells and unicorn blood in it.
And, Testosterone! :)
WoD
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@al777 just a shot in the dark. could you test if this bug is fixed?
Just tested - I can confirm that the same bug exists in 3.02.01.12R1 as well. Not a big deal to me as under-the-screen buttons are working fine.
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Hi,
More and more, I'm leaning towards buying one as well, after buying four SDM3045Xs for work.
However, then a "larger", so either the SDM3055 or even the 3065.
I am really only interested in accuracy and reliability and that is also the question:
How are the two models in this regard with it ?
The SDM3055 costs 560€, the SDM3065 820€...Is the price jump worth it?
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The SDM3055 costs 560€, the SDM3065 820€...Is the price jump worth it?
SDM3065X uses the better LM399 reference and has a few more advanced features.....study up on datasheets and the user manual. ;)
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If there is anything specific you want me to test on my SDM3065X feel free to ask. But its the most accurate equippment I have so I dont have anything to compare it to
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Higher accuracy is what interests me, otherwise any problems regarding reliability ?
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I didnt run into any issues with it (besides the little software bug mentioned before that you can easily get around). I generally like the UI. Update rate is extremely fast if configured for it. ACV is slow.
The only things I wish would be better is the bar graph. It is so slow its basically useless. And its rediculous into how many menus you have to go to to take a screenshot.
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And its rediculous into how many menus you have to go to to take a screenshot.
Yes a few instruments from that era of design are a pain to grab USB screenshots with.....
Maybe it's time for a new feature request to much improve that.
I'll give this some thought and forward a suggestion......something like pressing 2 specific buttons together saves screenshot to USB ?
Better ideas ?
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And its rediculous into how many menus you have to go to to take a screenshot.
Yes a few instruments from that era of design are a pain to grab USB screenshots with.....
Maybe it's time for a new feature request to much improve that.
I'll give this some thought and forward a suggestion......something like pressing 2 specific buttons together saves screenshot to USB ?
Better ideas ?
It should be a single key for a set period of time. On my LCR meter, it's the . button for a few seconds. For these I would suggest holding the Shift key for 3 seconds.
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Speaking of buttons...
Please don't print DCV (ACV, DCI or ACI) on the buttons instead of VDC as shown in the display, as it should :palm:
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Speaking of buttons...
Please don't print DCV (ACV, DCI or ACI) on the buttons instead of VDC as shown in the display, as it should :palm:
Why not? It is DC-Volt range and measured value is Volt-DC....
Not saying your wrong, it could be unified, but both ways is OK. Not really important to be exactly same except for OCD...
I would rather have separate buttons for DCV/DCI and ACV/ACI instead of same buttons with shift. Rigol DM3068 has nice button layout actually. Much smaller and horrible screen though.
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... Not really important to be exactly same except for OCD...
I may well have OCD
This writing seems to have been made by Yoda.
Voltage or current is what's being measured. AC or DC is a secondary parameter (sort of speak).
Besides, for some reason that 'A' in the ACV, for a split second, I tend to relate with "Amper", hence, current. |O
It bugs me. :-//
PS: One button should be for Voltage, and the other for Current, not mixing that up. My 2 cents
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... Not really important to be exactly same except for OCD...
I may well have OCD
This writing seems to have been made by Yoda.
Voltage or current is what's being measured. AC or DC is a secondary parameter (sort of speak).
Besides, for some reason that 'A' in the ACV, for a split second, I tend to relate with "Amper", hence, current. |O
It bugs me. :-//
PS: One button should be for Voltage, and the other for Current, not mixing that up. My 2 cents
I'm OK with fact that it bugs you. Your prerogative.
But Siglent just went with industry practice by Keysight and others before them, see image I attached. Probably by using logic that if they changed it then they would be accused of not being the same.. Users are never happy. :-DD
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However you decide to do this, don't make the Voltage and Current input banana jacks the same :o
Best,
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However you decide to do this, don't make the Voltage and Current input banana jacks the same :o
Best,
Amen that!!
:-DD
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But it makes measuring the voltage on a supercap bank so much more exciting if you you are one button press away from explosion. :scared:
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Booom is Ho ?
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Higher accuracy is what interests me, otherwise any problems regarding reliability ?
I have had the SDM3065X for 6 years. It has never given me a problem. I use it primarily for current measurement of very low power devices (100nA to 5uA sleep currents). Even in its 20mA range, the instrument is accurate enough to provide the information I need. The graphing and histogram features are quite useful to me, as is the dual display. My only regret is that I could really use the scanner card now and it's not an upgradeable option.
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Higher accuracy is what interests me, otherwise any problems regarding reliability ?
I have had the SDM3065X for 6 years. It has never given me a problem. I use it primarily for current measurement of very low power devices (100nA to 5uA sleep currents). Even in its 20mA range, the instrument is accurate enough to provide the information I need. The graphing and histogram features are quite useful to me, as is the dual display. My only regret is that I could really use the scanner card now and it's not an upgradeable option.
The scanner card is available separately. It's the SC1016. Does your older model not have the cutout on the back panel for it?
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My SDM3065X doesnt have the cutout
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Higher accuracy is what interests me, otherwise any problems regarding reliability ?
I have had the SDM3065X for 6 years. It has never given me a problem. I use it primarily for current measurement of very low power devices (100nA to 5uA sleep currents). Even in its 20mA range, the instrument is accurate enough to provide the information I need. The graphing and histogram features are quite useful to me, as is the dual display. My only regret is that I could really use the scanner card now and it's not an upgradeable option.
The scanner card is available separately. It's the SC1016. Does your older model not have the cutout on the back panel for it?
SC cannot be retrofitted.
From the US website:
NOTE: The scanner is included on new SDM3065X-SC products only. It cannot be added to SDM3065X instruments at a later time.
Recent discussion:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multi-channel-multimeter-with-usb-interface/msg4960108/#msg4960108 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multi-channel-multimeter-with-usb-interface/msg4960108/#msg4960108)
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SC cannot be retrofitted.
Oh, that's kinda lame. I thought Siglent loved selling addons. 😉
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SC cannot be retrofitted.
Interesting:
The SC models are sold (at least here in Germany) together with the scannercard, the models are not available without it.
The additional price compared to the non-SC models corresponds approximately to the unit price of the scannercard.
But you can not install it in a model without -SC....
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And its rediculous into how many menus you have to go to to take a screenshot.
Yes a few instruments from that era of design are a pain to grab USB screenshots with.....
Maybe it's time for a new feature request to much improve that.
I'll give this some thought and forward a suggestion......something like pressing 2 specific buttons together saves screenshot to USB ?
Better ideas ?
Done.
Suggested a long press of Run/Stop for capturing a USB screenshot.
Had a SDM out and that just seemed to make the most sense.
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The button for printscreen should be one that if short pressed by mistake, doesn't do immediately anything, like the SHIFT button.
Just a thought
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The die is cast, I will treat myself to an SDM3065X.
Let's see if Batronix can still do something on the price, they don't have it in stock, another dealer does, but I hope for some discount with them.
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The die is cast, I will treat myself to an SDM3065X.
Let's see if Batronix can still do something on the price, they don't have it in stock, another dealer does, but I hope for some discount with them.
They owe you for selling 1000 of their MSO demo boards!
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The button for printscreen should be one that if short pressed by mistake, doesn't do immediately anything, like the SHIFT button.
Just a thought
Shift already has dual functions, Shift and Remote/Local control so not at all suitable for a Long press for anything.
However the Run/Stop button has only a toggling state and no dual function and if we are to think more deeply about the screenshot shortcut we want, a display snapshot in time mimics the Stop state hence the reasoning behind suggesting use of Run/Stop to Siglent.
Seemed darn obvious after having a play and a think about how to best add a screenshot shortcut to existing functionality.
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The die is cast, I will treat myself to an SDM3065X.
Let's see if Batronix can still do something on the price, they don't have it in stock, another dealer does, but I hope for some discount with them.
I would suggest to go to a Keythley DMM6500 instead.
My 3065X even after calibration to Siglent Augsburg does not show the same values as the DMM 6500 and KS43465A does.
Plus the DMM6500 scanner card can be cloned and fitted very easy. (plus local running scripts, apps, custom trigers, advanced UI, etc.)
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Hi,
My 3065X even after calibration to Siglent Augsburg does not show the same values as the DMM 6500 and KS43465A does.
It doesn't have to, as long as it stays within its (own) specification - Does it ?
plus local running scripts, apps, custom trigers, advanced UI, etc.
The Keysight also costs almost twice as much, so it should have more to offer.
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Hi,
My 3065X even after calibration to Siglent Augsburg does not show the same values as the DMM 6500 and KS43465A does.
It doesn't have to, as long as it stays within its (own) specification - Does it ?
This is what I am talking about.
Siglent is in left. Calibrated in March this year. KS an KT are out of cal. interval.
Voltage source in this pictures is Ian's PDVS2 mini.
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Hi,
Calibrated in March this year.
What "says" the protocol ? Is the unit in its specs ?
KS an KT are out of cal. interval.
OK...
So you compare a "fresh" calibrated meter with two others out of cal, right ?
Voltage source in this pictures is Ian's PDVS2 mini
When was this one calibrated ?
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It seem that I'm loosing my time ...
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Why ?
You have raised an important objection that needs to be explored. :)
I don't want to spend €800 only to be told a year later during external calibration that my meter is out of tolerance.
That's why I would like to know what's wrong with it before I buy it.
It's not about which measurement result looks "nicer".
If, for example, your newly calibrated Siglent measures something different than the two that are no longer calibrated, it may well be that it is nevertheless closer to the "truth".
I think that would also be important for you to know.
Simply saying that it shows something different is a bit too shallow.
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Due dates:
PDVS2 - 1 year July 2023
KS34465A - 1year Nov. 2022
DMM - 2 year March 2023
None of them are known as drifted so much so soon.
KS and KT have shown the same close values form the first day when I get PDVS2.
The fact that both dmm's show very close results should tell you something.
In any case I will not trust the 3065X more than KS and KT.
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If, for example, your newly calibrated Siglent measures something different than the two that are no longer calibrated, it may well be that it is nevertheless closer to the "truth".
The way calibration intervals work, is that manufacturers come up with specifications that will, at some confidence level, confirm that the meter stays well within them for the calibration interval. This is generally a number that's padded to some degree to make sure the long tails of the Bell curve are still within spec. No company that cares about calibration would use a meter if only 68% of the meters are still in spec at the end of the calibration interval. Then the calibration interval needs to be shortened. Actually, any meter being out of spec at the end of its calibration interval is a problem, because it means you can't rely on any of the measurements you took since the previous calibration, and would have to recall all products that rely on this measurement. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's generally very rare, especially for the low voltage DCV ranges.
So while it would certainly not convince an auditor, I'd have a fair amount of confidence that the Keysight and Keithley meters will still be in their one year spec after a year. For example from a data set I downloaded from the PMEL forum a long time ago, out of 250 calibrations of a HPAK 34401A at 1 V DC with roughly 1 year interval, zero where out of tolerance. Out of 118 Keithley 2000 calibrations at 1 V DC, one was out of tolerance. Both companies have decades of experience burning in and selecting the LM399 voltage references they use.
From what I've read, for example here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3065x/msg2019076/#msg2019076), Siglent uses LM399 references without such selection and burn in. So it would be very plausible that the Siglent meter drifted rather than the other three devices all drifting at the same rate and in the same direction. If you buy the meter and leave it on for a couple of months, and then have it calibrated, it may well drift less.
You should properly run the numbers with the uncertainties of all meters to figure out if this is actually out of spec. Because 50 ppm difference might well be borderline in spec. Note that the other devices will likely also be somewhat off in either direction. Consider it four overlapping bell curves with the reading as their mean and 3.33 * their uncertainty as their standard deviation (per GUM).
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Thankyou both, the thing with the LM399 I did not know until now.
Hm-Hm...
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One reason we selected the KS34465A as our 1st new precision DMM (had an HP & AG 34401A) here at the Labs, was because we hoped/wished/thought or whatever that some of the old 34401A DNA would be in these newer DMMs.
Now we have 3 KS34465As, a pair of 34401As, a DMM6500 and a SDG3065X, and they all agree well altho the SDG3065X is always slightly higher in DCV readings, likely because the LM399 is still "aging".
As for finding the "Truth" measurement, think if 5 or 6 DMMs agree within reason, then the "Truth" is within reach. Of course if one must have verified results then the "Truth" is calibration to traceable standards, which we recently did with a project where the results needed to be verified and repeated elsewhere. New KS34465A (active new cal certificate) solved this issue as measurements compared with a couple other KS34465As and a DMM6500, and other instruments outside our control.
We have a LTZ1000 and a couple LM399 based references, and a few other references (Vref10) that all run 24/7, the LTZ and LM have ~2 years aging. These are used to periodically check various instruments against each other to attempt to spot a deviant instrument before making suspect measurements.
Best,
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And now I just became dissatisfied with my SDM3065X ;D I bought it new from a local distributor, and it turned out the factory calibration certificate was from 2019... I plan to send it for calibration soon and will let you know how it turns out (unfortunately, I don't have a stable reference source to check the drift.)
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Thank you Gentlemen, now I´m unsure what to do. ;)
For the first sight, the DC values doesn´t look bad against the mentioned keysight, see pic.
But this one costs more, 600 bucks more...
Hmm...Buying the SDM and let it on for weeks... 8)
I hope in the case of the 6.5 digit meter it would come with a proper cal. protocol instead of simply one sheet.
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One reason we selected the KS34465A as our 1st new precision DMM (had an HP & AG 34401A) here at the Labs, was because we hoped/wished/thought or whatever that some of the old 34401A DNA would be in these newer DMMs.
Now we have 3 KS34465As, a pair of 34401As, a DMM6500 and a SDG3065X, and they all agree well altho the SDG3065X is always slightly higher in DCV readings, likely because the LM399 is still "aging".
The KS 34465 has not that much in common with the old 34401, though quite a bit of the 34410. The relevant resistors are more conventional and from what it looks no longer HP custom ones.
The SDM3065 is much different from both in using an integrated ADC chip and this needs extra dividers: one to divide down the 7 V ref. to somerthing like 3.5 V or 5 V and than some divider for the 20 V to get down to the range of the ADC (e.g. 2 V). For this reason the 2 V range is the more accurate with the SDM3065. Still the 20 V range only got some 5 ppm of extra uncertainty - so they seem to be quite confident in the resistors.
So it is not just the drift of the reference, but also 2 dividers and the ADC chip itself.
The ratio of the 2 V and 20 V ranges would give a hint on at least than one divider stability.
The 34401 has a resistor ratio in the ADC gain and AFAIK this gain is not corrected by some ACAL like procedure. So far the 34401 has a rather good reputation for low long term drift.
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And now I just became dissatisfied with my SDM3065X ;D I bought it new from a local distributor, and it turned out the factory calibration certificate was from 2019... I plan to send it for calibration soon and will let you know how it turns out (unfortunately, I don't have a stable reference source to check the drift.)
As mentioned these use an un-aged LM399, this is how Siglent keeps the cost down (select aged LM399s would be expensive, and left to the more expensive KS and Keithley). Might be a good idea to let your DMM run for some time to allow the LM399 to settle some before sending in. We would like to leave ours on all the time, but the fan noise prevents this, so it cycles on and off.
Best,
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Yea I don't worry too much about it. I'll just burn-in it as long as I can, send it for calibration a few times, and I'll have some idea about the overall drift ;)
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My 3065X was sent to calibration after 4 years ...
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And what are the results ?
Passed or not ?
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In the calibration certificate it has passed, but you have seen the difference between the KS & KT.
I have send it because it was sligthly out of specs and hoping that it was aged enough after 4 years, to retain calibration, but it seem that it can't.
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In the calibration certificate it has passed, but you have seen the difference between the KS & KT.
I have send it because it was sligthly out of specs and hoping that it was aged enough after 4 years, to retain calibration, but it seem that it can't.
Perhaps the issue is with the lab and not the device? You might want to consider an independent lab for calibration/adjustment.
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@skander36:
Did you get a complete protocol with all measured values or was it again just a siglent-typical one-page explanation sheet ?
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In the calibration certificate it has passed, but you have seen the difference between the KS & KT.
I have send it because it was sligthly out of specs and hoping that it was aged enough after 4 years, to retain calibration, but it seem that it can't.
I have a question because I'm not sure if I'm thinking about the same terms. Was it only calibration, without adjustment? In Poland, the term "calibration" typically does not include adjustment.
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Not only in Poland.... ;)
Here, our calibration lab only measure the devices according to their specs - when they´re into them, they have passed.
When not, they will be rejected and we have to decide what to do with it.
On the other hand, the cal lab which calibrate my brymen in 2021, they did readjustements when the meter was out of tolerance.
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In the calibration certificate it has passed, but you have seen the difference between the KS & KT.
I have send it because it was sligthly out of specs and hoping that it was aged enough after 4 years, to retain calibration, but it seem that it can't.
Perhaps the issue is with the lab and not the device? You might want to consider an independent lab for calibration/adjustment.
I also thought about that but I'm enough. I cost me 200E plus shipping. I will use KS and KT and will not consider Siglent DMM's for the future.
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Did you get a complete protocol or not ?
If yes, please share the measured DC values with us.
If no, for the money, I would definitely expect and demand a complete protocol from them.
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@skander36:
Did you get a complete protocol with all measured values or was it again just a siglent-typical one-page explanation sheet ?
Yes , a complete protocol.
L.E. Some troubles with the forum server, it messed the attachments.
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In the calibration certificate it has passed, but you have seen the difference between the KS & KT.
I have send it because it was sligthly out of specs and hoping that it was aged enough after 4 years, to retain calibration, but it seem that it can't.
I have a question because I'm not sure if I'm thinking about the same terms. Was it only calibration, without adjustment? In Poland, the term "calibration" typically does not include adjustment.
I specifically asked for adjustment, not only calibration, but in the protocol pages they do not checked anything. but in delivery note they put a description:
RMA factory calibration including adjustment, ISO calibration.
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Thankyou for sharing.
So everything is inbetween the specs, the meter is OK.
Remarkable:
All measured values are above the respective injected reference value.
In your example (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4964083/#msg4964083), however, the value is below it.
It is hard to imagine that the meter makes a "runaway" downward at 1V, while it is otherwise always above.
When was the last time your voltage reference was calibrated ?
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In the calibration certificate it has passed, but you have seen the difference between the KS & KT.
I have send it because it was sligthly out of specs and hoping that it was aged enough after 4 years, to retain calibration, but it seem that it can't.
I have a question because I'm not sure if I'm thinking about the same terms. Was it only calibration, without adjustment? In Poland, the term "calibration" typically does not include adjustment.
I specifically asked for adjustment, not only calibration, but in the protocol pages they do not checked anything. but in delivery note they put a description:
RMA factory calibration including adjustment, ISO calibration.
Info for adjustment wasn't available until recently, first introduced in FW a few years back but an unwieldy process compared to the simple adjustment process that is available to any any user today.
In short, unhappy with any range then provide a precision reference and tweak the value to match.
Yes this the price we pay for not having aged references.
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@Martin72
I told you before.
This month is expired calibration so don't need to be calibrated so soon.
Also those values from the table are showed only in the first 2-3 minutes after start. After that it became to decrease slowly.
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@Martin72
I told you before.
This month is expired calibration so don't need to be calibrated so soon.
Also those values from the table are showed only in the first 2-3 minutes after start. After that it became to decrease slowly.
Nothing stopping you from making corrections if you have the latest firmware installed.
Defpom shows how:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZZg605ioI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZZg605ioI)
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Nothing stopping you from making corrections if you have the latest firmware installed.
I know, but I didn't succeed using just PDVS2. It is good for checking but not for calibrating a 6,5 digit DMM.
This is why I send it to Siglent.
The ideea of my first post was to show the diference from KT and KS and that will be a good ideea for Martin to think about.
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The idea of my first post was to show the difference from KT and KS ..........
Are they fan cooled ?
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yes
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Thank you Gentlemen, now I´m unsure what to do. ;)
I don't have experience with the Keithley DMM6500 or Siglent SDM3065X, other than reading various good and bad things about them here.
I will note though that I had concerns about buying a second Keysight 34465A after seeing the below linked post a while back, and began thinking about a SDM3055-SC.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-34465a-reliability/msg4104439/#msg4104439 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-34465a-reliability/msg4104439/#msg4104439)
So I haven't bought any of them... but rather invested in a 2nd hand KS 34972A, and more recently a PDVS2mini precision voltage source.
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yes
Interesting.
Do KT and KS specify similar warmup times ?
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I will use KS and KT and will not consider Siglent DMM's for the future.
Send me a private message if you want to get rid of that troublesome Siglent DMM. 😉
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and that will be a good ideea for Martin to think about.
Absolutely and thanks again for that.
I was not aware of that at all.
Nevertheless, I am waiting for an offer from Batronix.
And take the following for me:
- The drift comes from the unaged LM399
- The drift itself does not cause the meter to go outside its own tolerance.
- The drift will decrease over time, i.e. when the LM399 has aged "enough" ?
- You should have a high precision voltage reference in your house if you don't want to bring the meter for calibration every year.
Whereas the latter may become obsolete, because:
Such a reference will cost money, not a little money if you want to calibrate a 6.5 digit meter with it.
The reference must then of course be calibrated regularly, which also costs money.
From this point of view, you could calculate how often you can send a meter for calibration, until you have the money out, which you would spend for your own reference and regular calibration.
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Info for adjustment wasn't available until recently, first introduced in FW a few years back but an unwieldy process compared to the simple adjustment process that is available to any any user today.
That's what I'm also wondering about. The user calibration was introduced on April 25. Although I see on the website that esz AG have been collaborating with Siglent for several years on this matter, so perhaps they did perform factory adjustment.
In any case, during the calibration, the parameters were within the specified range. So, for me, it's strange that it "suddenly" went beyond the specification (slightly for that manner), and even in the opposite direction.
The warming up curve also looks different than what I have seen in another topic. The voltage value was increasing with time instead of decreasing. Maybe it depends on specific voltage reference?
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Info for adjustment wasn't available until recently, first introduced in FW a few years back but an unwieldy process compared to the simple adjustment process that is available to any any user today.
That's what I'm also wondering about. The user calibration was introduced on April 25. Although I see on the website that esz AG have been collaborating with Siglent for several years on this matter, so perhaps they did perform factory adjustment.
In any case, during the calibration, the parameters were within the specified range. So, for me, it's strange that it "suddenly" went beyond the specification (slightly for that manner), and even in the opposite direction.
The warming up curve also looks different than what I have seen in another topic. The voltage value was increasing with time instead of decreasing. Maybe it depends on specific voltage reference?
skander36 Cal report doesn't show they did but maybe I missed it. :-//
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Let things run for a couple hours, and then let each of the readings stabilize for at least 20 minutes using the same cable with our LTZ1000 stabilized 10V reference which has been running 24/7 for 2 years, each reading at least 1000 averages with 10 PLC, SD under 6uv in all cases, except 34401A these were slow 6 digit setting.
Deviation from ideal 10 volts, at 26C 42% RH with AC cycling On/Off.
New KS34465A reading +2ppm
1 1/2 year old KS34465A +1ppm
2 year old KS34465A +4ppm
1 1/2 year old DMM6500 +6ppm
HP34401A + 3ppm
AG34401A +2ppm
2 year old SDM3065X +9ppm
Good results for all the DMMs relative to each other IMO.
It's nice to see Siglent has introduced a self cal/adjustment routine, and Defpom has done a nice video on such. So the question for us is do we send this in, or just "wing it" here with the latest KS34465A as the "Reference" since we don't normally use the SDM3065X for any verified customer measurements. We''ll probably let the SDM3065X LM399 collect a few more hours before attempting any type of adjustment, or sending in.
Best,
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Good info Mike and nice to see a ppm comparison. :clap:
Defpom and I worked on the first version of SDM adjustment when still in beta development and it remained unchanged on release which was a shame as it was a PITA to complete needing spreadsheet values adjusting in a nonintuitive way before uploading into the SDM. ::)
The latest adjustment procedure is where it should've been right from the start.
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It's nice to see Siglent has introduced a self cal/adjustment routine
Yepp, nice for the cal-lab, makes it easier for them.
Or for the one or two hobbyists out there who have a suitable reference for a calibration of a 6.5 digit meter.
My DMMChecker is already out there. ;)
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And its rediculous into how many menus you have to go to to take a screenshot.
Yes a few instruments from that era of design are a pain to grab USB screenshots with.....
Maybe it's time for a new feature request to much improve that.
I'll give this some thought and forward a suggestion......something like pressing 2 specific buttons together saves screenshot to USB ?
Better ideas ?
Done.
Suggested a long press of Run/Stop for capturing a USB screenshot.
Had a SDM out and that just seemed to make the most sense.
I think pressing the OK button is a good option, if there are no half done setting changes it should do the job.
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And now I just became dissatisfied with my SDM3065X ;D I bought it new from a local distributor, and it turned out the factory calibration certificate was from 2019... I plan to send it for calibration soon and will let you know how it turns out (unfortunately, I don't have a stable reference source to check the drift.)
Are you sure it was 2019... they use that date as an EXAMPLE of checking the intervals on the cal verification sheet.
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- The drift itself does not cause the meter to go outside its own tolerance.
This depends on the initial adjustment...
- The drift will decrease over time, i.e. when the LM399 has aged "enough" ?
Of course. The drift will be worst during the first year, where you should be prepared for up to 20 ppm. It gets increasingly (and significantly) better in the following years.
The best strategy would be a single adjustment after two years and you'll never have to adjust the instrument again. The LM399 has excellent long term stability, once it is sufficiently aged. It's better to have a cost effective meter with an unaged high quality reference such as the LM399 than having an instrument with some well aged lower grade reference.
- You should have a high precision voltage reference in your house if you don't want to bring the meter for calibration every year.
Like 99% of all 5.5, 6.5 and 7.5 digit meters, the SDM3065X requires separate adjustment for every single range. Consequently, a simple reference wouldn't cut it anyway - you need a multifunction calibrator. There you could spend some real money getting one - not to mention the maintenance effort and cost to keep it in calibration...
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And now I just became dissatisfied with my SDM3065X ;D I bought it new from a local distributor, and it turned out the factory calibration certificate was from 2019... I plan to send it for calibration soon and will let you know how it turns out (unfortunately, I don't have a stable reference source to check the drift.)
Are you sure it was 2019... they use that date as an EXAMPLE of checking the intervals on the cal verification sheet.
I'm such an idiot. :palm: I only looked briefly at one side and throw it to the box. The calibration was done in 2021 8) Thanks for making me double-check :-+
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Is it a complete protocol ?
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It's only a certificate with date and used calibrator (FLUKE 5522A), one page. No values whatsoever.
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That is simply pathetic. :palm:
We're not talking about a $10 meter from the hardware store, but a precision meter with 6.5 digits....Incredible.
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It's only a certificate with date and used calibrator (FLUKE 5522A), one page. No values whatsoever.
At Siglent EU ?
I suspect they run the same secret calibration/adjustment script as at HQ that doesn't give a detailed printout.....it's all about the script.....
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At Siglent EU ?
It's a factory certificate.
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At Siglent EU ?
It's a factory certificate.
No doubt based on Performance verification spec on P12-16 in the service manual:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDM3065X_ServiceManual_SM06036-E02F.pdf
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and that will be a good ideea for Martin to think about.
Absolutely and thanks again for that.
I was not aware of that at all.
Nevertheless, I am waiting for an offer from Batronix.
And take the following for me:
- The drift comes from the unaged LM399
- The drift itself does not cause the meter to go outside its own tolerance.
- The drift will decrease over time, i.e. when the LM399 has aged "enough" ?
- You should have a high precision voltage reference in your house if you don't want to bring the meter for calibration every year.
Whereas the latter may become obsolete, because:
Such a reference will cost money, not a little money if you want to calibrate a 6.5 digit meter with it.
The reference must then of course be calibrated regularly, which also costs money.
From this point of view, you could calculate how often you can send a meter for calibration, until you have the money out, which you would spend for your own reference and regular calibration.
This is why I suggest to think to DMM6500. They have a two year specification along with many more advantages over SDM3065. It simply worth its money.
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- The drift itself does not cause the meter to go outside its own tolerance.
I'm not sure if this has been established yet. You would need data on a fair number of units.
- The drift will decrease over time, i.e. when the LM399 has aged "enough" ?
Probably, but since Siglent appears to not be doing any binning for drift or noise, you are to some degree depending on getting lucky with a good LM399 sample.
From this point of view, you could calculate how often you can send a meter for calibration, until you have the money out, which you would spend for your own reference and regular calibration.
I would also take into account how these expenses and effort compare to buying a meter from HPAK/Keithley.
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One must consider the expected use of the DMM as well, and evaluate the relative cost of achieving the desired use/results.
The SDM3065X is a fine DMM, certainly capable for general purpose use, and a good value. However, it is not a replacement for the mentioned more expensive KS and Keithley DMMs, which have a long established pedigree and demonstrated long term stability. The aged, selected LM399s are likely only one of the reasons for the higher expense, some of the more critical components are probably selected or specified as well, and the final instruments may go thru a more rigorous test and burn-in before delivery.
If one must make precision, verifiable, repeatable measurements, then one must use an instrument capable of such, and in case of customer requirements be able to demonstrate measurements on demand. This is why calibration certification is important, it gives the user and customer confidence in the measurements at hand.
The metrology folks would have issue, and rightly so, with our approach of using 5 DMMs to verify a measurement, rather than the proper certification trail for each instrument (one instrument had such). Our customer verified our measurements with their instruments at a different location & time without our participation, so they accepted our approach.
Anyway, aging the SDM3065X LM399 is certainly an acceptable approach (we are doing so now), and ok for general purpose use, but not a substitute for the higher precision mentioned DMMs, especially in case of verifiable, repeatable precision measurements.
Best,
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Then I will have to live with the "little blemishes"... 8)
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The truth is that in 2021 when I have aquired DMM 6500 it was 1018 E on Welectron.
Now I see that it is 1559 E !!! 50% in two years ... not speaking of KS...
In this time Siglent has almost the same price ...
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The truth is that in 2021 when I have aquired DMM 6500 it was 1018 E on Welectron.
No I see that it is 1559 E !!! 50% in two years ... not speaking of KS...
In this time Siglent has almost the same price ...
Another drawback of the DMM6500 next to the increased price is that it can't measure the resistance of inductors properly. Not sure if they fixed it in later versions but ours at work can not do that. This is related to a hardware bug. Shouldn't happen at a 6.5 digit meter from an A brand for that price. But otherwise a nice DMM.
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The truth is that in 2021 when I have aquired DMM 6500 it was 1018 E on Welectron.
No I see that it is 1559 E !!! 50% in two years ... not speaking of KS...
In this time Siglent has almost the same price ...
Another drawback of the DMM6500 next to the increased price is that it can't measure the resistance of inductors properly. Not sure if they fixed it in later versions but ours at work can not do that. This is related to a hardware bug. Shouldn't happen at a 6.5 digit meter from an A brand for that price. But otherwise a nice DMM.
It depends. Is not a normal function. I have measured now 120uH inductor and it show 0,2 ohm on DMM6500, 0,24 ohm on 34465 and 0,1ohm on SDM 3065X, while on DE-5000 show 0,21ohm as ESR parameter and DCR.
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No I see that it is 1559 E !!! 50% in two years ... not speaking of KS...
In this time Siglent has almost the same price ...
And I would pay under 800 incl. VAT for the siglent, so I pulled my trigger now on it.
One day, when I need more, the cards will be reshuffled.
I will post my experiences with the SDM3065X here from time to time.
Thanks to all who opened my eyes (not as easy as I thought), especially skander36.
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The truth is that in 2021 when I have aquired DMM 6500 it was 1018 E on Welectron.
No I see that it is 1559 E !!! 50% in two years ... not speaking of KS...
In this time Siglent has almost the same price ...
Another drawback of the DMM6500 next to the increased price is that it can't measure the resistance of inductors properly. Not sure if they fixed it in later versions but ours at work can not do that. This is related to a hardware bug. Shouldn't happen at a 6.5 digit meter from an A brand for that price. But otherwise a nice DMM.
Wasn't aware of this issue. Our DMM6500 is a couple years old and has firmware version 1.7.7b and serial number 0451XXXX. Just measured a few inductors laying around without issue, so maybe this is related to the older hardware.
Really like the 10 ohm range, one reason we acquired this DMM, the KS34465A has 100 ohm range, SDM3065X has 200 ohm range, and 34401A is 1000 ohm range. This supplements the low 0.1 ohm and 1 ohm ranges of our bench LCR Meters.
Best,
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Quite a few meters have problems with large inductors. The 120 µH may not yet cause problems. The typical tricky part is measuring the resistance of a tranformer primary - this can get to the 10s of H range. The usual countermeasure is to short a seconday for this test.
It can be different inductor that different meter can have problems with and it may depend on the range and auto-ranging / offset compensation that can be an additional difficulty.
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And I would pay under 800 incl. VAT for the siglent, so I pulled my trigger now on it.
One day, when I need more, the cards will be reshuffled.
I will post my experiences with the SDM3065X here from time to time.
Thanks to all who opened my eyes (not as easy as I thought), especially skander36.
I was in a similar dilemma 7 months ago... new multimeters from top brands were terribly expensive for me, and some were unavailable in PL. There were no used ones in good condition and at a reasonable price. There happened to be a promotion for the 3065X at around 780 EUR, so I took a look at the specifications and simply went for it. I'm satisfied and aware that it's not top-of-the-line equipment, but it's actually quite decent and sufficient for my needs. We'll see how it performs after calibration and over time, but I think it will be fine. I don't regret the purchase :-+
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I wish you luck with the calibration.
Mine is so bad with the tempco so it cannot be calibrated at the 6.5 digit level. Even by Siglent.
I also did not exclude a fault of my equipment.
Maybe yours are good ones.
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Mine is so bad with the tempco so it cannot be calibrated at the 6.5 digit level. Even by Siglent.
According to the protocol it has passed... ???
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Mine is so bad with the tempco so it cannot be calibrated at the 6.5 digit level. Even by Siglent.
According to the protocol it has passed... ???
It pass because the specs are large, but it can't be adjusted as the others can. Any adjustments you do on it, in 30-40 min will drift away.
On paper it said that has reading 1.800045 and my reads is showing 1.799923 and continues to go down, while the others stand still at 1.80000 and 1.79999.
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Hm-hm...
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It pass because the specs are large, but it can't be adjusted as the others can. Any adjustments you do on it, in 30-40 min will drift away.
Have you tried leaving it on for any extended period of time? Like a day or a week?
I'm not kidding, I'll take that DMM off your hands. Let's trade something fun. 😉
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It pass because the specs are large, but it can't be adjusted as the others can. Any adjustments you do on it, in 30-40 min will drift away.
Have you tried leaving it on for any extended period of time? Like a day or a week?
I'm not kidding, I'll take that DMM off your hands. Let's trade something fun. 😉
It was aquired in Nov. 2018. You can imagine that it was on for weeks ...
It is on company inventory so it's complicated to sell.
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Tadaaa.. 8)
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First measures with the DMMCheckplus...
Not bad, but: I couldn´t find quickly the duty cycle measure function ?
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1834057;image)
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Tadaaa.. 8)
:-+
Pop the latest FW into it.
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=24
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Hi Rob,
Not necessary, it already has the latest firmware on it. :-+
It was "calibrated" last month - It probably comes from a brand new production.
I will probably repeat the measurements with the DMMCheck.
According to the manual, 100PLC are to be set to achieve the maximum accuracy, I had not done that before.
Also, I had not let 90min warmup time pass, both are just made up. 8)
And it seems to be actually so that the Siglent knows no duty cycle measurement, I have currently found nothing about it.
That would be a wish for a firmwareupdate in the future.
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For the warm up period and ambient temperature I found mine to require consideration to both, after 10 minutes it is pretty good, after one hour it got a bit better, but is only properly stabilised after a few hours really.
Changes to ambient temp of a +- few degrees will effect it slightly too, so don’t expect a reading at 19 degrees Celsius to be the same as one at 28 degrees, but that can be said for most meters anyway.
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Also on AC Measurements there is a filter option, I suggest using it too.
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Hi Scott,
so don’t expect a reading at 19 degrees Celsius to be the same as one at 28 degrees, but that can be said for most meters anyway.
That goes without saying, no one should underestimate the influence of (ambient) temperature on equipment. :-+
Currently it is 21°C here... 8)
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Also on AC Measurements there is a filter option, I suggest using it too.
Yepp, 3hz 20Hz(default), 200Hz.
I leave it to 20Hz for the 100Hz signal.
Aperture is not avaible in ACV and capacitance measure mode (but for resistance measure mode) and it will be set back to 10 PLC when changing the mode.
Test it again after 80min warmup (also the DMMchecker), nearly all measured values are the same (when ignoring the last digit), nice. 8)
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Does anybody else wish they could save their settings on these ? Like not having to change volume and ohms threshold for continuity everytime the machine is turned on ?
With all the hacking that goes on with equipment, does anyone on here change little things like that ?
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Power on default/last state, duty cycle measure, print "button"....
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Does anybody else wish they could save their settings on these ? Like not having to change volume and ohms threshold for continuity everytime the machine is turned on ?
With all the hacking that goes on with equipment, does anyone on here change little things like that ?
You can, there is a setting for "last" or "default"...
Shift->Dual (Utility) - Store/Recall - Power On (Last/Factory Default)
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And it seems to be actually so that the Siglent knows no duty cycle measurement, I have currently found nothing about it.
That would be a wish for a firmwareupdate in the future.
None of my lab grade bench DMM (and I have quite a few of them) supports duty cycle. Not even the humble 4.5 digit Fluke 45 has it, let alone the higher end Fluke 8846A or Keithley 2000, 2015 as well as the high end Keithley 2001/2.
Yes, the industry standard Fluke 87 has it, but not every feature that might be handy on a "swiss knife" type handheld DMM is also appropriate for a lab grade instrument. There have been times, when serious bench DMM didn't even have a continuity check - of course not, why would you want to have a 50 cent function in an expensive 6.5 digit meter, that you could easily build yourself with a battery and a buzzer?
Nowadays, lab grade DMMs tend to integrate more and more questionable functions, just to make their feature list longer. Frequency measurement is one of them. What is the use to have a frequency measurement in a precision multimeter, when the accuracy has to be specified in percent instead of ppm or ppb? Even the cheapest frequency counter as well as any serious DSO will be better than that. And it is just funny, when a meter can measure voltages more accurately than frequency...
The same goes for capacitance measurements. Yes, ir might be handy sometimes, in a pinch on site, hence a Fluke 87 has it, but in a lab? You cannot measure small capacitors. You can measure big ones, but you cannot determine their quality or functionality. It might be enough for a tinkerer who knows some workarounds (and has the time to apply them), but not for professional use.
Much more important for a precision bench DMM are the more hidden features, like the max. range, where a high input impedance (>10 GOhm) can be maintained, and the input bias current in this mode.
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That was a long answer to say duty cycle, no, there won't be. ;)
No problem, it's not really a flaw. :)
And I already knew that you can't seriously measure capacities with it, believe me. 8)
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What's wrong with the frequency measurement on these DMMs? My SDM3055X-E measured my LCR's freqs with excellent consistency. For example, 10kHz came back as 9.9999kHz. Should I not trust that number?
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Performa01 meant it not in this way. :)
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Very Interesting the firmware 3.02.01.12R1. I cannot find it on the net.
It seems the latest downloadable version is 3.01.01.12R1.
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What's wrong with the frequency measurement on these DMMs? My SDM3055X-E measured my LCR's freqs with excellent consistency. For example, 10kHz came back as 9.9999kHz. Should I not trust that number?
Check the specifications for the uncertainty on that measurement if you want to know. But Performa01's point was that even a cheap frequency counter can do better in frequency, and a cheap LCR meter is much more useful for capacitance, so why put a mediocre quality frequency and capacitance function on these meters? It's not that they're useless, just not up to the standards of the rest of the meter.
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What's wrong with the frequency measurement on these DMMs? My SDM3055X-E measured my LCR's freqs with excellent consistency. For example, 10kHz came back as 9.9999kHz. Should I not trust that number?
Check the specifications for the uncertainty on that measurement if you want to know. But Performa01's point was that even a cheap frequency counter can do better in frequency, and a cheap LCR meter is much more useful for capacitance, so why put a mediocre quality frequency and capacitance function on these meters? It's not that they're useless, just not up to the standards of the rest of the meter.
Is there something stopping them from putting in a frequency counter that's at least as good as a "cheap frequency counter"?
Has anybody done a real life comparison between a "cheap frequency counter" and one of these DMMs?
No question on the capacitance being better in an LCR meter, but it's still a nice feature to have, and the accuracy is fine for general use.
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And I will say that some people are looking for problems where there are none.
I use the SDM3065X as a DMM for everyday work, bought because it is powered from the mains, which eliminates the problem of replacing the battery. Sometimes you need to check something quickly, whether it's capacitance or something else, and that's where this multimeter comes in handy. If I need more accurate measurements, I use better quality equipment.
As for the frequency measurement, it's such a quick test - photo below... MF2414B (Option 03 - oscillator 5×10^-10) turned on now for this test, so it's not warmed up and stabilized... The SDM3065X, according to the specification, measures the frequency in the range of 3 Hz ~ 1 MHz :P
I will add that measuring AC voltage and frequency at the same time is sometimes useful :popcorn:
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Aaaaaaaaaand then I remembered I own an SDG2122X which has a "High precision Frequency Counter" - and I'm guessing that's at least as good as a "cheap frequency counter." 🤔
I think I can trust my DMM's freq counter for my needs. Though now that I brought out the SDG, whatever. 🤣
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and I'm guessing that's at least as good as a "cheap frequency counter." 🤔
This may sadden Siglent SDM owners - pictured Aneng A3008 for $20 :-DD
Sorry for the poor picture quality but this is a screenshot from a video I was taking...
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and I'm guessing that's at least as good as a "cheap frequency counter." 🤔
This may sadden Siglent SDM owners - pictured Aneng A3008 for $20 :-DD
Why? It's less accurate than your own Siglent SDM photo above...
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Aaaaaaaaaand then I remembered I own an SDG2122X which has a "High precision Frequency Counter"
See... ;)
And the 200Mhz could last for most of the purposes at home.
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Is there something stopping them from putting in a frequency counter that's at least as good as a "cheap frequency counter"?
Probably that few people would be willing to pay extra for a better time base in what would be a pretty limited frequency counter in terms of frequency anyway. Also, the input circuit of DMMs is generally aimed towards low noise rather than frequency response.
No question on the capacitance being better in an LCR meter, but it's still a nice feature to have, and the accuracy is fine for general use.
My problem with DMMs isn't so much the accuracy of their capacity measurement, but the fact that it's a DC measurement that is very easily fooled by non-ideal caps, rather than the AC measurement that can measure both resistive and reactive components (e.g. ESR and capacitance). Fixing this would be expensive because it would require an entirely new source and sense circuit. That for me limits the use to checking if I have the right chip capacitor.
Both boil down to that it's hard to put a good screwdriver in a hammer because the requirements for both don't overlap much. For example a hammer needs to be heavy far away from the grip, while the weight of a screwdriver should be close to the grip.n So then you end up with a screwdriver that you awkwardly need to hold by the head of the hammer.
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That makes sense, but as far as your analogy goes...
Hammer drills and impact drivers are awesome. 😉😉
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and I'm guessing that's at least as good as a "cheap frequency counter." 🤔
This may sadden Siglent SDM owners - pictured Aneng A3008 for $20 :-DD
Why? It's less accurate than your own Siglent SDM photo above...
Because it works up to 26MHz and not just 1MHz like SDM :scared: It was just a joke of course :-DD
My problem with DMMs isn't so much the accuracy of their capacity measurement, but the fact that it's a DC measurement that is very easily fooled by non-ideal caps, rather than the AC measurement that can measure both resistive and reactive components (e.g. ESR and capacitance). Fixing this would be expensive because it would require an entirely new source and sense circuit. That for me limits the use to checking if I have the right chip capacitor.
Yes, that's right, only from my experience in amateur use to determine during repairs whether an SMD capacitor is functional or not, such a simple measurement in a multimeter, whether it's Brymen or Siglent, is 99% sufficient. And because I have this multimeter on all the time, it's convenient, and if needed, I can put a dedicated LCR meter on the shelf and use it for accurate measurement. However, as I mention, I don't have to waste time on it because in most cases such a simple test is enough. The same applies to frequency measurement, in many cases even such a modest measurement is enough and I don't have to run a dedicated frequency meter to check something.
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I tried comparing the frequency measurement of my SDM3065X against my SDG2042X (which thinks its a SDG2122X). Im testing at 10KHz which is is where it should be most accurate. It has an initial accuracy of +-1ppm (and it is still in Factory calibration for that). Using its own frequency counter obviously shows bang on 10KHz.
My SDM3065X shows 9.999975KHz. Thats 2.5ppm off. With the 1ppm of the function generator that is ~3.5ppm which is within the 24hour spec (5ppm). Of course that is just 1 sample but not bad.
I also compared readings using my DE-5000 as my "function generator" and im at most 4ppm off. And thats at lower frequencies where the spec is 20ppm @ 24 hours.
My 3065x calibration is just over 1 year old.
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I have never wanted to use the SDM as a frequency counter, there are much better alternatives. To give the new owners confidence or interested people a little help for the decision, attached is a photo of my 25 year old HP 34401A and my two year old SDM3065. Both devices were allowed to warm up for about 90 minutes, the HP device needs a bit longer since it doesn't have a fan.
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I have never wanted to use the SDM as a frequency counter, there are much better alternatives.
It all depends on the application we need. For measuring the frequency of the voltage when building an AC inverter, this function is better than using a typical frequency meter for RF applications. To tell the truth, I wouldn't want to mess around and risk connecting the output of several hundred volts from the inverter to my Anritsu MF2414B that works up to 40GHz. Especially since using this frequency meter for such applications doesn't make much sense...
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Today the first back to work after the holiday, I also tested the SDM3045X as well as a Keysight 34450A with the DMMCheckPlus.
FYI..
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Today the first back to work after the holiday, I also tested the SDM3045X as well as a Keysight 34450A with the DMMCheckPlus.
Sorry, but these numbers don't look very plausible to me.
Looking just at the 5.0000 reference, we can see it is only specified to 200 ppm accuracy: 0.0001/5 = 0.00002 = 200 ppm. For highly accurate DMMs like the Keysight 34450A and also Siglent SDM3065X, this is totally inadequate. Even when taking the worst case error into account (which we wouldn't actually see on a freshly calibrated meter), the reading of an SDM3065X must be in the window of 4,999745 V to 5,000255 V. Your table says 4.9970 V, which would be far outside its specification. The Keysight appears to be better, but still outside its tolerances.
Look at the attached picture what it looks like if an old, abused meter, that has never been calibrated for at least one decade (bottom left) is connected to a freshly calibrated calibrator and compared to a newly acquired instrument from eBay (top right), when both meters are serious lab instruments. The left one is less accurate than the SDM3065X according to its specs, whereas the right one beats most average 6.5 digit meters, despite having only 5.5 digits.
From the discrepancy of the more serious meters in your test (SDM3065X and KS34450A) we can tell that it's neither the reference nor the meters which are at fault. It quite obviously is a systematic error in the measurement, like random cables and plugs, without paying attention to temperature gradients and thermal voltages. It takes a bit of care and effort to make precise measurements down to ppm accuracy.
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It takes a bit of care and effort to make precise measurements down to ppm accuracy.
In other words, I was sloppy. ;)
The test leads were different (Probe Master at home, Fluke TL at work), but they had the same length - but this should not play a major role in a voltage measurement, nor in a (constant) current measurement.
If it does, I would have to know from the manufacturer of the reference, which testleads he had used for calibration.
The ambient temperature may have been different, 1...2 Kelvin difference.
I'll repeat it again, with all meters in the same place.
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The most important thing is: you cannot make precision measurements with handheld probes. Even if the contact materials were superb quality, the temperature gradient produced by holding the probes in your hands will introduce massive errors.
Look at my photo: for precision measurements, I've used fixed wiring with quality banana plugs, shielded cables connected to a guard (most important for low current and high resistance measurements) and not touching anything immediately before and during the process.
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Martin, as mentioned much earlier in this thread I kept my new SDM3065 running for about 500 hours to settle down before I started some comparisons with my HP 34401A.
My shown measurement was done with a Kelvin clamp on a batterie and two leads went to the HP and the other two to the SDM.
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Is there any way to check the runtime of SDM3065X in hours not in on/off cycles?
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It would be a nice thing to know the initial values.
From the "more serious" Keysight I know them, because they were in the form of a protocol with the delivery, since then it has been calibrated regularly(so you can see where the values drift over time).
From my serious Siglent, I only have a sheet of paper....
I will write to them, the serial number is individual, maybe there is a database with values.
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I found another firmware bug. If you enable the dBm display it correctly switches the displayed unit to dBm. But if you then press DCV/ACV it still shows the dBm value, but it says the unit is V. Which leads to weird (and very wrong) displays of negative volts AC.
@tautech could you maybe pass this along too?
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I found another firmware bug. If you enable the dBm display it correctly switches the displayed unit to dBm. But if you then press DCV/ACV it still shows the dBm value, but it says the unit is V. Which leads to weird (and very wrong) displays of negative volts AC.
@tautech could you maybe pass this along too?
Please confirm model and FW version.
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Looks like the post from devo is from a 3065, but I can reproduce on a 3055 that is on 1.01.01.27R2
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It would be a nice thing to know the initial values.
From the "more serious" Keysight I know them, because they were in the form of a protocol with the delivery, since then it has been calibrated regularly(so you can see where the values drift over time).
From my serious Siglent, I only have a sheet of paper....
I will write to them, the serial number is individual, maybe there is a database with values.
If you have your gear calibrated by some independent cal lab, you'll have to pay more for a calibration certificate with data than one without. Considering the price of a comparable Keysight, it appears quite appropriate if they provide a calibration report with data.
Even with data, you don't gain as much as you might expect. The data are just a snapshot of the instrument under certain test conditions in a certain environment at a certain temperature, taken with some references that have a certain tolerance which should be guaranteed by a traceable calibration.
By contrast, you use the instrument in a different setup, under different conditions, at a different temperature and some time has passed since the last calibration. I can tell from experience, that you cannot ignore this and especially a brand new instrument may drift significantly (yet staying within its one year specification) during the first months of duty, so the cal data would not be terribly useful for introducing "correction factors" anyway.
This still describes the ideal case, when the calibration is done carefully by well trained and experienced personell. While this should be the norm, unfortunately this isn't always the case.
In short, if an instrument has a certain specified tolerance, then you can have some confidence that the measurement results will be within this tolerance window - if you use an appropriate test setup, that is. Your own table above demonstrates how even fairly accurate instruments can deliver just house numbers under certain conditions. A calibration certificate with data might tell you that the meter was off by some 5 ppm in the 20 V range when tested in the cal lab. What would this info have helped in this very situation, where the reading is off by several hundred ppm?
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Its a 3065X with firmware 3.01.01.12R1
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@Performa01:
I know this metrology stuff.
If I argued in front of our Q auditors like you did, they would rip the certificate off the wall and we would go broke.
The fact that I was able to establish Siglent in our company at all is solely due to the fact that I am responsible for the measuring equipment and not others.
Otherwise the stuff wouldn't have been ordered in the first place.
Now private is private and not commercial, you could say.
In the case of cheap products, I see it the same way, no question.
But 800€ is no longer cheap.
We both have different views on this and that's not a bad thing, you can't always agree.
Martin
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It would be a nice thing to know the initial values.
From the "more serious" Keysight I know them, because they were in the form of a protocol with the delivery, since then it has been calibrated regularly(so you can see where the values drift over time).
From my serious Siglent, I only have a sheet of paper....
I will write to them, the serial number is individual, maybe there is a database with values.
Chances are the initial values are relatively close to ideal. With instruments that don't sit a long time on the shelf there may be just the initial adjustment and than a check to essentially the same reference.
At least the LM399 reference is not expected to show much drift in the time it is powered off. So actually getting readings for the initial calibration may not be very useful: impressive looking numbers, but valid only for the first few hours. The initial drift can include some extra faster contributions, so even for a cal history the first few 100 hours and thus the inital data are of limited value.
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If I argued in front of our Q auditors like you did, they would rip the certificate off the wall and we would go broke.
Huh? I cannot think of anything I said that would make Q-auditors "rip certificates off the wall".
All I said is that you can make measurements with 35 ppm uncertainty when you have a DMM with a specified 1 year tolerance of 35 ppm that has a valid calibration. You cannot say that your measurements have much less uncertainty, just because you have a cal certificate with data much closer to the ideal value.
The fact that I was able to establish Siglent in our company at all is solely due to the fact that I am responsible for the measuring equipment and not others.
Otherwise the stuff wouldn't have been ordered in the first place.
I cannot see what this has to do with the topic of initial cal certificates (with or without data).
Now private is private and not commercial, you could say.
In the case of cheap products, I see it the same way, no question.
But 800€ is no longer cheap.
€800,- is relatively cheap for a 6.5 digit DMM. In any case significantly cheaper than a comparable Keysight.
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From my serious Siglent, I only have a sheet of paper....
I will write to them, the serial number is individual, maybe there is a database with values.
After a "conversation" this has settled for me, everything is fine. Now. 8)
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Martin, as mentioned much earlier in this thread I kept my new SDM3065 running for about 500 hours to settle down before I started some comparisons with my HP 34401A.
My shown measurement was done with a Kelvin clamp on a batterie and two leads went to the HP and the other two to the SDM.
I´ll make up my mind how to do this, maybe switching it on and leave it for a month in on-state.
Unfortunately not only the LM399 will be pre-aged, but also other components where I don't know if it will have the same positive effect as for the voltage reference.
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Aging of many parts gets slower over time. E.g. a square root of time shape is relatively common, but not the only observed form. AFAIK the LM399 drift is mainly from the on time and not much from cycles depite of the relatively high temperature. With resistors or similar parts that get hot one can also have drift caused by cycling.
A known candidate for "drift" is settling of humidity in the PCB. This can take weeks to settle but is more a delayed environmental thing, not actual drift.
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If you have your gear calibrated by some independent cal lab, you'll have to pay more for a calibration certificate with data than one without.
This is not entirely true. We will only pay more for an ISO-compliant certificate. This is mainly needed for companies that have, for example, ISO 9001.
Calibration without it is cheaper and basically differs in that we get a slightly different document looking at the legal side - because from the technical side we get the same.
Although, of course, this may vary depending on the offer of a particular company providing such services.
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We are not allowed to use devices that are not calibrated at least according to ISO.
If, for example, I were to allow the SDM3045X to be used for measurement/adjustment after purchase, even though these multimeters did not have the appropriate documentation, this could result in the recall of devices already delivered and tested with them, with the corresponding costs.
Therefore, all new purchases without protocols are first calibrated externally before they are used even once here.
It is completely irrelevant whether this makes technical sense or not, it is about the complete traceability.
The seriousness behind this can best be understood by the following example:
Assuming a product is tested with a calibrated measuring device, the measuring device still has a valid calibration.
If, however, during the next calibration it is determined that the measuring device is out of tolerance, even if it is only in one range, then it is determined which products were tested during the time between the two calibrations.
And those would then have to be measured again.
If we are unlucky, they are already at the customer all over the world...
For private use, of course, this is irrelevant.
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We are not allowed to use devices that are not calibrated at least according to ISO.
Yes, that's right, I write about private individuals or companies where it is not necessary - Then you can do it cheaper and there is no need to pay for documents for which additional fees are charged.
In the case of companies with ISO etc. there are clear procedures and here it does not matter what DMM you buy.
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AFAIK the calibration to ISO standards normally does not need a protocol with measured data and the other way around a cal. protocol with data may still not be ISO conform. The question here is if the new meter comes with a suitable (for the needs: some may need some ISO standard, others want numbers) calibration. With some meters you can get them with different cal paperwork, though technically likely the same. With a lower grade calibration, you may not be part of a very unlikely recall in case they had a problem.
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2015 SDM3055 running the latest FW....where's the reference aging ? :-//
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2015 SDM3055 running the latest FW....where's the reference aging ? :-//
How would we tell from this single picture? We don't know the history of either meter. Maybe the difference was much larger in 2015 and they drifted closer to each other. Maybe one of the meters was adjusted in the mean time. Maybe the SDM was rarely powered on so won't drift as much. Maybe this is a lucky unit that performs better than average.
The effect of not binning references is that you get a larger spread than the more reputable manufacturers that do select their references for drift and noise. Not that there won't be any well performing units.
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From my serious Siglent, I only have a sheet of paper....
I will write to them, the serial number is individual, maybe there is a database with values.
After a "conversation" this has settled for me, everything is fine. Now. 8)
I was right, they have a database where the respective results are stored.
I will get the corresponding results for my SDM3065X soon(not for free).
And with the devices from the "Performance" series (the A models) are complete calibration documents with it.
So I take everything back, the "one sheet of paper" can be trusted. 8)
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2015 SDM3055 running the latest FW....where's the reference aging ? :-//
How would we tell from this single picture? We don't know the history of either meter. Maybe the difference was much larger in 2015 and they drifted closer to each other. Maybe one of the meters was adjusted in the mean time. Maybe the SDM was rarely powered on so won't drift as much. Maybe this is a lucky unit that performs better than average.
The effect of not binning references is that you get a larger spread than the more reputable manufacturers that do select their references for drift and noise. Not that there won't be any well performing units.
In addition to that - when we're talking about quality lab grade bench meters, yet without selected and well aged reference, long term drift will eventually become a problem for the fairly accurate 6.5 digit meters with a specified tolerance <40 ppm, but much less so for a lower resolution meter with 5.5 digits that has a much higher tolerance of >120 ppm, where 10 ppm drift would only show as the LSD changing by a single count.
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I will get the corresponding results for my SDM3065X soon
Arrived today, "raw" in csv format, a protocol will follow.
And it´s "real fresh" calibrated.. ;)
If of interest I could upload the csv files (after erasing serial number).
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https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AZBLftXtG4UCRjvO2_OARdLLeN2LQhuZ?usp=sharing
(24hrs avaible)
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looks like a really nice unit ordered one in for a client since there was a pretty killer deal on them i found with a code and the sale price it was under 490 for the 3065x wish i could have ordered myself one and sold the hantek lol.
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looks like a really nice unit ordered one in for a client since there was a pretty killer deal on them i found with a code and the sale price it was under 490 for the 3065x wish i could have ordered myself one and sold the hantek lol.
Would be really nice if you could share said deal? :D
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it was a one piece deal. there was only one left and they wanted to get rid of it they are not carrying siglent anymore. i got the other scope that way also. but there was a seller on ebay selling the 3065x for 549 free shipping i dont know if they still have any but thats still a fair but more then i paid. if this place had stock on them i would have been happy to to share. i actually wanted to buy 2 of them but he only had the one so i got a 3065x and the 3055 as just a backup unit for the price i couldnt pass it up. it appears brand new and said it has only 1 startup when i turned it on. for less then 700 for both units i couldnt sat now. and then i have the hantek 3065's i have working again. but those were gifts from friends and family so being gifts ill prob keep them around.
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You definitely hit the jackpot.
I have seen the $549 eBay price before, and was REALLY close on pulling the trigger. After a couple days thinking it over, I went back later to reconsider and the listing was closed. I wasn't desperate for a new meter (I have a perfectly working Agilent 34401A) but had been wanting something newer with more features, plus I apparently have a deep-seated compulsion to acquire all the DMMs, lol. My handheld DMM count has to be somewhere around 30 at the moment. I've been meaning to line them all up on the bench ala Kiss Analog and take a picture for the TEA forum.
I'll get a 3065X eventually, but if I run across a deal like you did, I wouldn't think twice.
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When I recently looked around for a 6.5 digit meter, I was surprised to find that the Siglent is the cheapest of all.
Even the Hantek was more expensive (for buyers in Germany).
I paid under 800 including tax for my SDM3065X, which is very good.
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From here https://siglentna.com/resources/documents/digital-multimeter/#sdm3065x-series I looked at the DMMs manuals to check if any of them reflected the recently added options in the temperature functions, "ref temp" and "custom sensor" like in the 3055, were addressed in some of the other DMMs manuals, but they're not.
The 3055 manual looks like it has almost 10 years. Sure that can't be reflecting the improvements/corrections made by the firmware releases during all this years.
Am I searching in the wrong place or updated manuals for the Siglent DMMs are due?
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From here https://siglentna.com/resources/documents/digital-multimeter/#sdm3065x-series I looked at the DMMs manuals to check if any of them reflected the recently added options in the temperature functions, "ref temp" and "custom sensor" like in the 3055, were addressed in some of the other DMMs manuals, but they're not.
The 3055 manual looks like it has almost 10 years. Sure that can't be reflecting the improvements/corrections made by the firmware releases during all this years.
Am I searching in the wrong place or updated manuals for the Siglent DMMs are due?
I normally look here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/documents/?CateIdss=5
SDM3065X manual is from March 2022
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/22_03_29/SDM3065X_Usermanual_E02B.pdf
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Thanks tautech
That's the same 3065 manual version I got from the other link, but it still does not say anything about "ref temp" and "custom sensor".
I was hoping that those functions were already addressed at least in one of the DMM manuals, since they were implemented in the 3045 and 3065 much earlier than in the 3055
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Thanks tautech
That's the same 3065 manual version I got from the other link, but it still does not say anything about "ref temp" and "custom sensor".
I was hoping that those functions were already addressed at least in one of the DMM manuals, since they were implemented in the 3045 and 3065 much earlier than in the 3055
Unfortunately, you have to wait for a new user manual that takes into account major changes in the firmware. This is another thing that Siglent should improve because such shortcomings do not only apply to the instructions for multimeters. Alternatively, you can try to write to support for an explanation of how to use functions not included in the manual.
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The user manuals of the rebranded DMMs for Teledyne Lecroy (T3DMMx-5's), are the same thing as the Siglent ones (given the necessary slight differences), so the manuals aren't being updated also.
https://www.teledynelecroy.com/digital-multimeters/default.aspx (https://www.teledynelecroy.com/digital-multimeters/default.aspx)
In the Siglent DMMs firmware revise history, wile for the 3045 the "custom sensor" is mentioned (added in 5.01.01.07R1), for the 3055 it's not (added in 1.01.01.27R2). Another fail in documentation.
This guys don't like the paperwork ;D
PS: The info about rebranded RS PRO RSDM3055 was no good either, in that regard
https://my.rs-online.com/web/p/multimeters/1236465 (https://my.rs-online.com/web/p/multimeters/1236465)
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I had forgotten that the Siglent meter has an optional scanner card. Seems to cost as much as the meter? :o
Can you just design your own card and the software is already built in?
EDIT: Ah, seems it's only US$275
https://www.testequity.com/product/38941-1-SC1016 (https://www.testequity.com/product/38941-1-SC1016)
Still that could be cheaper with a DIY or 3rd party solution.
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AFAIK the scanner option needs to be factory installed. Chances are they need to add some connector to the PCB. So just having the scanner card would not be enough.
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Exactly.
I just open my SDM3065X :-X
No chance for it - Why ?
Will post the pics later, then it's clear why..
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Made a couple of pics, here a few in compressed form.
There´s simply no preparation inside for a scannercard, whether mechanical or electrical.*
Further pics from the LM399H, DAC is a AD7175 (24bit), the circuitry around the LM399H is surrounded by ICs from analog devices, as far as I could see, complete in A-grade (which is not the "better" variant, in this case).
Finally I´ll take some pics with my flir from the LM399H.
Martin
*) The surcharge for the SDM3065X-SC compared to the normal model is nevertheless very reasonable, it is about the same as the unit price of the scanner card.
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Further pics (thanks to the limit of 5000kB...)
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Now you need to compare to a unit with the SC. 😉
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A quick review of Tony Albus's teardown shows that it is a matter of some extra wires and (2) connectors, a small backplane PCB, some hardware, and a hole in the chassis. The firmware is the same, so might be possible to do a retrofit.
Tony Albus's teardown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjQbYiozx1k)
Skip to 4:56 and 6:47.
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I had forgotten that the Siglent meter has an optional scanner card. Seems to cost as much as the meter? :o
Can you just design your own card and the software is already built in?
EDIT: Ah, seems it's only US$275
https://www.testequity.com/product/38941-1-SC1016 (https://www.testequity.com/product/38941-1-SC1016)
Still that could be cheaper with a DIY or 3rd party solution.
Correct, when it is an accessory however installed in a new DMM with the supporting HW its cost is under $250.
From US website.
SDM3055 $ 499
SDM3055-SC $ 745
SDM3065X $ 745
SDM3065X-SC $ 995
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I had forgotten that the Siglent meter has an optional scanner card. Seems to cost as much as the meter? :o
Can you just design your own card and the software is already built in?
EDIT: Ah, seems it's only US$275
https://www.testequity.com/product/38941-1-SC1016 (https://www.testequity.com/product/38941-1-SC1016)
Still that could be cheaper with a DIY or 3rd party solution.
Correct, when it is an accessory however installed in a new DMM with the supporting HW its cost is under $250.
From US website.
SDM3055 $ 499
SDM3055-SC $ 745
SDM3065X $ 745
SDM3065X-SC $ 995
So you can't buy the standard meter without card but with the mounting hardware installed to install your own card later?
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I had forgotten that the Siglent meter has an optional scanner card. Seems to cost as much as the meter? :o
Can you just design your own card and the software is already built in?
EDIT: Ah, seems it's only US$275
https://www.testequity.com/product/38941-1-SC1016 (https://www.testequity.com/product/38941-1-SC1016)
Still that could be cheaper with a DIY or 3rd party solution.
Correct, when it is an accessory however installed in a new DMM with the supporting HW its cost is under $250.
From US website.
SDM3055 $ 499
SDM3055-SC $ 745
SDM3065X $ 745
SDM3065X-SC $ 995
So you can't buy the standard meter without card but with the mounting hardware installed to install your own card later?
Correct.
The SC HW has never been preinstalled to support it.
This whole topic I explored some years back and my Siglent sales manager even collared some of the bits for me but to make the HW rack was to be at best a knock up job so decided it was better to get them as SC models.
From the pricing above the SC 5.5 digit model is ~50% more so not a great outlay for the additional functionality.
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Rather than focus efforts on retrofitting the scanner card best advice is to get the model that has it factory fitted then work on a breakout like this, linked in the OP POI list:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=992168)
Files and discussion here and in previous posts:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3071580/#msg3071580 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3071580/#msg3071580)
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Rather than focus efforts on retrofitting the scanner card best advice is to get the model that has it factory fitted then work on a breakout like this, linked in the OP POI list:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=992168)
Files and discussion here and in previous posts:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3071580/#msg3071580 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3071580/#msg3071580)
Damn, that's nice.
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things i haven't seen so far, is a meter with the added expansion card support inside, where does it connect ?
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A quick review of Tony Albus's teardown shows that it is a matter of some extra wires and (2) connectors, a small backplane PCB, some hardware, and a hole in the chassis. The firmware is the same, so might be possible to do a retrofit.
If it's nothing more, then it's still okay.... ;)
At least one IC is missing, then the mentioned connectors...
(Pic is a snip from the video, two pics of my sdm3065X)
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I've been following this thread for awhile now since I'm planning to pickup the SDM3065X at some point. I was particularly interested in the recent discussion on the voltage reference and the fact that it's not hand selected like the higher-end brands, and thus subject to drift until a burn-in period is reached. My thinking is when I get one, I'd leave it on for a few months, testing for drift along the way.
My question is, there are some LCD panels that can still suffer image retention (usually not as severe or permanent as with plasma or OLED, but can still take some time to clear up). Is this a concern with Siglent's displays? Mine might go for extended periods without being used. Do they have any sort of screensaver built in? I have other Siglent gear but have never left it on for more than a day or two, so not sure how their displays handle this type of prolonged scenario, especially for those static areas of the UI that wouldn't be changing often.
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Damn, that's nice.
Sure is and some might say member pipe2null went OTT with his design however he wanted to incorporate multiple capability into his breakout project.
To quote him:
I ended up rolling 4 separate projects into it:
- SDM3065X-SC scanner card breakout (the bottom half, plus green earth ground binding post to DMM case, plus BNC is the Ext Trig brought to front)
- Breakout for a cheap PC power supply (I've been meaning to do this for a while, just didn't get around to it previously)
- Metering for cheap PC power supply rails to OLED displays (don't have the metering circuits done, but the screens look pretty... Heh)
- SCPI server via ESP8266 to dump Metering data to network (not done, but screen looks pretty... Heh)
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Picture of the SDM3055 board, taken from here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg637615/#msg637615)
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I've been following this thread for awhile now since I'm planning to pickup the SDM3065X at some point. I was particularly interested in the recent discussion on the voltage reference and the fact that it's not hand selected like the higher-end brands, and thus subject to drift until a burn-in period is reached. My thinking is when I get one, I'd leave it on for a few months, testing for drift along the way.
Early in this thread Vref drift was discussed and those that checked it found drift closely matched Vref datasheet spec.
Now we have a good user cal menu, adjustment tweaks can easy be made if users have suitable accurate references.
My question is, there are some LCD panels that can still suffer image retention (usually not as severe or permanent as with plasma or OLED, but can still take some time to clear up). Is this a concern with Siglent's displays? Mine might go for extended periods without being used. Do they have any sort of screensaver built in? I have other Siglent gear but have never left it on for more than a day or two, so not sure how their displays handle this type of prolonged scenario, especially for those static areas of the UI that wouldn't be changing often.
I can only say in the ~8yrs these DMM's have been available there are zero reports of display burn or fading.
Just last week a customer ordered another SDM3045X to now have 5 plus one SDM3055 in his repair shop. :o
That speaks volumes of his satisfaction with them for his technicians needs.
His only ongoing cost has been replacement leads.
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Picture of the SDM3055 board, taken from here:
Yep a pic I took but with your edits. ;D
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....Do they have any sort of screensaver built in? ...
The SDMs have a screen saver built in, that can be disabled, or set at some steps from 1 minute to 5 hours
(utility [shift+dual] - system setup - Scrn Svr)
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Can someone tell me if the attached measurement wiring is within the SDM3065X-SC specs.
I'm assuming the H and L for all channels are isolated from each other and the fact the total V from pin 1 to pin 16 is 480V doesn't violate the cards 175V peak ?, 220 VDC switching, 500VDC insulation resistance or 110VDC per channel?
The card specs are attached
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Can someone tell me if the attached measurement wiring is within the SDM3065X-SC specs.
It's not, quite incorrect in fact for the voltage measurements.
Please see the connection diagram: 2.Application of 16 Channels for (1) 2-Wired Application [1](DCV/ DCI/ ACV/ ACI 2WR/ 4WR/ CAP/ FREQ/ DIODE/ CONT / TEMP) on P5 of the datasheet
I'm assuming the H and L for all channels are isolated from each other and the fact the total V from pin 1 to pin 16 is 480V doesn't violate the cards 175V peak ?, 220 VDC switching, 500VDC insulation resistance or 110VDC per channel?
As outlined above and in the datasheet pin 1-16 total is irrelevant.
The channel specs are those that need to be adhered to.
Max AC Voltage 125V rms or 175V peak, 100kHz, 0.3 A switched, 125VA (resistive load)
Maximum DC Voltage 110V, 1A switched, 30VDC (resistive load)
Where (resistive load) = a current measurement.
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tautech,
Sorry, I should have omitted the pin numbers from the common header I used to simulate a scanner symbol. The CH1H, CH1L,CH2H,CH2L ... would continue for all the channels with the 480V between CH1H and CH8L.
The question still remains.
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tautech,
Sorry, I should have omitted the pin numbers from the common header I used to simulate a scanner symbol. The CH1H, CH1L,CH2H,CH2L ... would continue for all the channels.
The question still remains. You said no at the 1st paragraph and ok on the last?
The 500V insulation spec (1G Ohm) between channels also mimics the front panel spec, 500V max above mains ground.
All this seems clear to me from both the meter and SC datasheets.
Maybe they are best studied together. :-//
The 500V insulation spec appears in other Siglent products too, namely PSU's where/when several units can be placed in series for elevated outputs to a max of 500V above gnd.
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Decisions, decisions...
Found another eBay bargain on the SDM3065X, new in box for $540 shipped (plus tax). Seller is a bit questionable -- 100% feedback but only 24 transactions and apparently sells random stuff (rice cookers, auto parts, bidets), definitely not an electronics equipment shop. So I don't know this if this one "fell off a truck" or they just bought some random salvage or what. The only photo is looking into the open box, and it does appear unused (though it's not hard to carefully repackage as new).
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xlcAAOSwR5xk1jfB/s-l1600.jpg)
Part of me wants to take a risk and pull the trigger, but add the Allstate protection plan just in case it has a latent issue, the seller won't refund (the listing says no returns), and Siglent warranty support proves iffy considering the seller. The protection plan and sales tax would bring it to $632 delivered. Meanwhile with the eevBlog discount I can get it from Saelig, an authorized dealer, for $700 $749 delivered. $68 $117 savings is nothing to sneeze at, but it's also not much to pay for peace of mind with such a delicate instrument as this, although the eBay route does provide 3 full years of coverage against any malfunction.
Whatever should I do, my fellow test equipment junkies???
EDIT: Forgot sales tax on Saelig order
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Hard pass unless they accept offers and you can get it for much lower. If it's used equipment, without a MANUFACTURER warranty, and it's out of cal, you're not going to have a good time.
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Hard pass unless they accept offers and you can get it for much lower. If it's used equipment, without a MANUFACTURER warranty, and it's out of cal, you're not going to have a good time.
I have a message in to the seller but will probably pass. It is listed as New but I think I'd only buy it with the Allstate plan which covers service shipping both ways and full replacement costs if it can't be serviced, for 3 years. Just not sure the $117 savings is worth the gamble, but I'm leaning towards waiting. I've seen them listed before for just under $600, maybe one will show up from a more credible seller, and if not I'll just go with Saelig when I'm ready. It's not something I NEED right now, just something I want, and have been waiting for the right deal to come along to push me over the edge.
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The cheapest SDM3065X I could get here in germany would be one from the states, from a purely intrinsic price point of view.
SDM3065X in ebay (https://www.ebay.de/itm/115875429936?epid=28017516911&hash=item1afab6be30:g:quwAAOSwTHFkyBLC&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwNsPP8o9WC%2BKo%2FvMpURTf6S5fWE4f8yuvJxdKSAuczQo8w34zmMGl51YdnPjqR1pFYWqszhKUUENZ0r292gpcI6AcRwb3Gx6k0c8nrdGBLkyBTqJ9b5uNYqMd9qvNVeB6DLfSXRUY0J3iIfxFQqIJt0g8FPVE7tNjS3WdSoEGv9FjWwsuG%2FG7XF6GmNV7iPLrjstw2M02MjgHM1OymFuJKA2EHOTteSze7pBkaKsQAlceQxTGoBw7g8lE%2Bo50vKmuQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8LsmsDEYg)
But the shipping costs... :o
That's why something like that isn't worth it for me, I've also paid under 800 like that, though not much below that.
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Yeah I've seen that one, a more established seller but also a seller of random stuff. Likely someone who buys salvage, returns, overstock, etc. by the pallet for resale. I can buy new from Saelig for only $50 more ($700 before tax).
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Well well, would you look at this.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-siglent-technologies-sdm3065x-6-digit-digital-multimeter/msg5026573/#msg5026573 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-siglent-technologies-sdm3065x-6-digit-digital-multimeter/msg5026573/#msg5026573)
Now $510 shipped with PP goods and services. Same picture.
EDIT: seller and I are having a conversation via PM here. I've not written it off yet, let's see where this goes.
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Well well, would you look at this.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-siglent-technologies-sdm3065x-6-digit-digital-multimeter/msg5026573/#msg5026573 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-siglent-technologies-sdm3065x-6-digit-digital-multimeter/msg5026573/#msg5026573)
Now $510 shipped with PP goods and services. Same picture.
EDIT: seller and I are having a conversation via PM here. I've not written it off yet, let's see where this goes.
I pulled the trigger on this after the seller and I worked out an agreement in writing for a reasonable return period in case anything is wrong with it, backed by PayPal. Seller was very accommodating and easy to work with, so kudos to Yinz/eDreamzWarehouse (eBay handle) for being reasonable with my requests.
Per the cal certificate, only a year or so out of factory. No guarantees of newer stock than that even coming from a dealer. Warranty repair might prove tricky if I ever needed it, but being it's apparently still factory sealed and if it tests okay during my return period, it's unlikely I would need warranty work before the warranty expired anyway. Crossing fingers, anyway.
When I get it, I'll run it through my assortment of cheap AD584 and LM399 references and my LB02A process meter, and compare to my Agilent 34401A (long out of cal but has remained very stable from what I can tell) and maybe the BM869s. This is just for hobby work and doesn't require a high degree of calibration certification, so if it tests within spec along with my other devices I'll be happy. At least if they're out, they'll all be out together.
Assuming it performs as any other new unit would, $510 delivered for a brand new SDM3065X is a pretty decent score I'd say. Will provide updates here on the outcome.
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I'm looking at the SDM3065. As far as I can tell from the Siglent website, they don't offer a set of Kelvin/4-wire probes. The only ones I found on offer on the web were from Keysight, at a cost of $260, which seems a bit steep. Are there more reasonable options, besides making one's own?
It's just the clips that might be difficult to make.
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Pomona (Fluke) sell 4 wire kelvin leads also.
You can also get reasonable ones from Aliexpress, they aren't super high quality or anything but work well enough, or you can buy the clips from there and add your own cables.
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I bought these to try out: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08H1QCL4G (https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08H1QCL4G)
The banana plugs are not great. They feel pretty lose but are still making a good connection. The clips feel way better than I expected for the price. Im pretty happy with them. Each side of the clip is connected to a different lead. So its wired correctly.
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I have one from Aliexpress - quite decently made for the money:
http://aliexpress.com/item/1005004095843094.html (http://aliexpress.com/item/1005004095843094.html)
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Looks very nice :-+
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I bought these to try out: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08H1QCL4G (https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08H1QCL4G)
The banana plugs are not great. They feel pretty lose but are still making a good connection.
Exactly, as this banana plugs turns and made loose contacts as using them for a power supply or connector.
So to solder them, that they do not turn in any directions ^^^
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If it does, I would have to know from the manufacturer of the reference, which testleads he had used for calibration.
The ambient temperature may have been different, 1...2 Kelvin difference.
I'll repeat it again, with all meters in the same place.
For the measurements where you mess with LSD uV levels also the air flows and thermal radiation off your body plays a role. I saw it in a professional lab where we sat 1m off the cabling (the cabling was special shielded with copper plugs, but the posts on my reference are nickel clad) and discussing while waving with our hands - the stddev of a measurement was 10x higher and average 2x higher than when we moved 2m off the wirings and stopped moving (and talk) :D.
The best and simplest solution, imho, is to use a fresh stranded cable, with outer diameter say 3mm, where I strip off aprox 4-5cm of the insulation and I wound the stranded copper wire backwards around the insulation. Thus you get a copper plug with large surface, which is then "screwed" into the meter's post (which should be made of copper as well). No thermal EMF, a perfect contact and it holds firmly inside. Do not touch the naked copper wire with your fingers, though. I do use a freshly stripped piece of wire for each measurement.. ;)
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I bought these to try out: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08H1QCL4G (https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08H1QCL4G)
The banana plugs are not great. They feel pretty lose but are still making a good connection.
Exactly, as this banana plugs turns and made loose contacts as using them for a power supply or connector.
So to solder them, that they do not turn in any directions ^^^
If lantern style plugs do not solder them. They should not require it.
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I bought these to try out: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08H1QCL4G (https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08H1QCL4G)
The banana plugs are not great. They feel pretty lose but are still making a good connection. The clips feel way better than I expected for the price. Im pretty happy with them. Each side of the clip is connected to a different lead. So its wired correctly.
I just picked up a set of these TestHelper brand Kelvin clips from Amazon. I'm very impressed with their build quality for $22. Silicone leads (or at least very soft PVC), gold tips, properly wired (confirmed), and the banana plugs are shielded with insulated tips and protective caps. Haven't had a chance to measure with them yet. My other Kelvin clips have a blade fixture to attach to the slots on my LCR meter, and these actually feel like a slightly better build quality.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N6DV3RK (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N6DV3RK)
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I use these because they are better ; https://www.amazon.com/TestHelper-TL200-Tester-Terminal-Alligator/dp/B01MYVVDA3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1GVARYCZCXWTT&keywords=TL200&qid=1693175440&sprefix=tl200%2Caps%2C265&sr=8-2 (https://www.amazon.com/TestHelper-TL200-Tester-Terminal-Alligator/dp/B01MYVVDA3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1GVARYCZCXWTT&keywords=TL200&qid=1693175440&sprefix=tl200%2Caps%2C265&sr=8-2)
8)
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I use these because they are better ; https://www.amazon.com/TestHelper-TL200-Tester-Terminal-Alligator/dp/B01MYVVDA3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1GVARYCZCXWTT&keywords=TL200&qid=1693175440&sprefix=tl200%2Caps%2C265&sr=8-2 (https://www.amazon.com/TestHelper-TL200-Tester-Terminal-Alligator/dp/B01MYVVDA3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1GVARYCZCXWTT&keywords=TL200&qid=1693175440&sprefix=tl200%2Caps%2C265&sr=8-2)
8)
I also have these (or very similar - I bought on aliexpress), but they are very large and are rather suitable for measuring large elements, below in the photo a comparison.
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I use these because they are better ; https://www.amazon.com/TestHelper-TL200-Tester-Terminal-Alligator/dp/B01MYVVDA3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1GVARYCZCXWTT&keywords=TL200&qid=1693175440&sprefix=tl200%2Caps%2C265&sr=8-2 (https://www.amazon.com/TestHelper-TL200-Tester-Terminal-Alligator/dp/B01MYVVDA3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1GVARYCZCXWTT&keywords=TL200&qid=1693175440&sprefix=tl200%2Caps%2C265&sr=8-2)
8)
I looked at those and like the overall design, except it may be hard to work in confined areas with those chunky jaws. Also, have you confirmed they're wired properly? One review mentioned that both jaws were connected on one of his clips.
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I've just checked and they are well wired, one wire per jaw. It's true that the clamps are bigger than the other small clamp model described above, but I own both as needed. :)
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Hi, everyone! I'm new to the forum.
Sorry that I trouble possible with problem you already fixed, but can't find good solution.
I have bug which will cause the multimetr SDM3055 stay at the boot screen only with boot logo. All 7 years it worked perfect. But now (((
Could I ask to send me PM with new FW or link for it?
Thanks a lot.
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this is a known bug in earlier FW. See
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/)
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@tautech can help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1vrJdgiBJg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1vrJdgiBJg)
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Well well, would you look at this.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-siglent-technologies-sdm3065x-6-digit-digital-multimeter/msg5026573/#msg5026573 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-siglent-technologies-sdm3065x-6-digit-digital-multimeter/msg5026573/#msg5026573)
Now $510 shipped with PP goods and services. Same picture.
EDIT: seller and I are having a conversation via PM here. I've not written it off yet, let's see where this goes.
I pulled the trigger on this after the seller and I worked out an agreement in writing for a reasonable return period in case anything is wrong with it, backed by PayPal. Seller was very accommodating and easy to work with, so kudos to Yinz/eDreamzWarehouse (eBay handle) for being reasonable with my requests.
Per the cal certificate, only a year or so out of factory. No guarantees of newer stock than that even coming from a dealer. Warranty repair might prove tricky if I ever needed it, but being it's apparently still factory sealed and if it tests okay during my return period, it's unlikely I would need warranty work before the warranty expired anyway. Crossing fingers, anyway.
When I get it, I'll run it through my assortment of cheap AD584 and LM399 references and my LB02A process meter, and compare to my Agilent 34401A (long out of cal but has remained very stable from what I can tell) and maybe the BM869s. This is just for hobby work and doesn't require a high degree of calibration certification, so if it tests within spec along with my other devices I'll be happy. At least if they're out, they'll all be out together.
Assuming it performs as any other new unit would, $510 delivered for a brand new SDM3065X is a pretty decent score I'd say. Will provide updates here on the outcome.
Got the SDM3065X in today. Confirmed it was never powered up before (power on count was 1). Only one revision behind on firmware which coincides with its factory calibration date of last year; updated it to latest R12 release. All self-tests passed. DCV and resistance measurements against my Agilent 34401A are pretty much dead on as you can see below. Capacitance was dead on against my BM786 and BM869s handhelds. The 34401A has been powered up for days, the voltage standard and handhelds were just turned on. Using Probe Master probes in both (one set the springy needle probes, the other standard probes).
$510 delivered for a brand-new factory sealed SDM3065X only a year out of the factory is shaping up to be one of my better scores in this hobby, up there with my $250 very clean, late model Agilent 34401A (also bought off this forum). So I'm 2 for 2 with test equipment purchases off eevBlog!
(https://www.morrisonline.us/images/IMG-7741_1.jpg)(https://www.morrisonline.us/images/IMG-7742_1.jpg)
(https://www.morrisonline.us/images/IMG-7744_1.jpg)(https://www.morrisonline.us/images/IMG-7745_1.jpg)
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Don't forget to leave it powered up for the next six weeks (about 13 kilowatt hours' worth of electrical energy consumption) to complete the first thousand hours' worth of ageing as quickly as possible and then repeat this comparison test. I (and everyone else, no doubt) will be interested in seeing your next round of test results. :)
In any case, you want to avoid powering it down for at least the first month simply to get past the initial ageing effect of its internal reference before even so much as contemplating any re-calibration.
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Don't forget to leave it powered up for the next six weeks (about 13 kilowatt hours' worth of electrical energy consumption) to complete the first thousand hours' worth of ageing as quickly as possible and then repeat this comparison test. I (and everyone else, no doubt) will be interested in seeing your next round of test results. :)
In any case, you want to avoid powering it down for at least the first month simply to get past the initial ageing effect of its internal reference before even so much as contemplating any re-calibration.
Yep, that's exactly what I'm doing, and why I asked earlier in this thread (I think it was this thread) about the screensaver feature, which I've configured. It will stay powered up for the time being.
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Hmmm....Maybe I should do that too.
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In any case, you want to avoid powering it down for at least the first month simply to get past the initial ageing effect of its internal reference before even so much as contemplating any re-calibration.
I think we're still looking for problems where there aren't any.
This multimeter can be accused of a lot, especially when it comes to the quality of the software and the slow fixing of errors in the firmware.
However, I've had it for some time, it's on almost non-stop (I use it as a basic multimeter - that's why I bought it).
What can I say about these imaginary problems with the reference voltage source - it still stays within the declared specification compared to other multimers I have at home.
In fact, Siglent specifies aging data (like any other manufacturer) - if you don't like the level it offers, it's time to spend a little more money :popcorn:
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Good point !
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In fact, Siglent specifies aging data (like any other manufacturer) - if you don't like the level it offers, it's time to spend a little more money :popcorn:
Or, if due to any Vref drift correction/adjustment is now simple with the latest firmware....if you must have a precise meter.
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In fact, Siglent specifies aging data (like any other manufacturer) - if you don't like the level it offers, it's time to spend a little more money :popcorn:
Or, if due to any Vref drift correction/adjustment is now simple with the latest firmware....if you must have a precise meter.
There is also a guarantee. Personally, I bought the multimeter as a private person (hobbyist) so I have additional legal protection in the form of the possibility of returning it to the seller if the item does not comply with the contract. If the multimeter does not correspond to the technical data declared by the manufacturer, I can use this right of return.
However, tell yourself this ... I am not a seller, but if there was a problem and the multimeter did not meet the data declared by the manufacturer after some time - it would probably not be offered because it would threaten the bankruptcy of sellers of such equipment.
After all, this isn't some $20 multimeter you can throw away in the trash. So probably people would not ignore such a situation if such a problem arose.
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Exactly.
As long as the meter moves within its own specifications, drift or not, everything is fine, no one can say anything against it.
But they do it anyway...
And to distinguish between normal behavior within the specifications or running out of them, that seems to be difficult for some.
I have nowhere read that the meter is out of the ranges, it was only upset to date that it does not display 10,0000 V when 10,0000 V is present, as an exaggerated example.
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Exactly.
As long as the meter moves within its own specifications, drift or not, everything is fine, no one can say anything against it.
Because as I wrote, people are looking for problems where there are none. Before buying, I read the declared technical data and I know what I bought. For the price IMHO it's ok
Yes, you can criticize the equipment for some non-compliance with the specification, e.g. what I am doing, i.e. badly working software, etc. But I will not compare this multimeter with my Keysight 6 and 1/2 where for its current market price I can buy four pieces of SDM3065 ...
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In any case, you want to avoid powering it down for at least the first month simply to get past the initial ageing effect of its internal reference before even so much as contemplating any re-calibration.
I think we're still looking for problems where there aren't any.
This multimeter can be accused of a lot, especially when it comes to the quality of the software and the slow fixing of errors in the firmware.
However, I've had it for some time, it's on almost non-stop (I use it as a basic multimeter - that's why I bought it).
What can I say about these imaginary problems with the reference voltage source - it still stays within the declared specification compared to other multimers I have at home.
In fact, Siglent specifies aging data (like any other manufacturer) - if you don't like the level it offers, it's time to spend a little more money :popcorn:
I've had my SDM3065X for almost two years now (My! How the time flies by! :( ). When I was looking to upgrade my Mestek DM91 9999 counts handhelds, I was after a meter with not only an extra digit or so of resolution but also the best tempco performance for the lowest cost and the 3065X was the obvious choice despite costing over a £100 more than the 3055 option.
At the time, the extra digit was just a nice 'bonus' on my 'wish list' which seemed an unnecessary level of resolution. However, I soon enough came to appreciate this 'surfeit of resolution' once I started monitoring the 'lamp voltage' on my LPRO-101 - it gave me a deeper insight into the effect of temperature on this voltage which would have been difficult to perceive with a 3055's more humble level of resolution.
I had planned to leave it powered up for its first month of use anyway but I seem to recall letting it remain powered up for another month or two before finally allowing it to be powered down when not in use (typically overnight periods of rest). As far as I can tell, it more than complies with its specifications in all respects so I'm very satisfied with my investment of the additional £100 + I spent over and above the cost of the SDM3055 that I had been considering.
I don't disagree with your sentiment of throwing more money at a decent bench DMM to eliminate the need to 'burn in' the reference but, as a hobbyist, I was quite prepared to shell out for the modest cost of 13KWH's worth of energy consumption on my electricity bill :)
BTW, I'd checked out the specs on quite a few alternative bench meters, including Owon's "cheap as chips" offering XDM1041 55,000 counts bench meter (I was only looking for an upgrade to my Mestek DM91 handhelds at the time). Unfortunately, Owon didn't think to include any tempco performance figures in its specification datasheet so I dropped it off the contender list. However, I did eventually purchase one some months after buying the 3065X for use as a secondary bench meter. By then, I was at least able to meaningfully characterise it's performance with the 3065X ;)
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I'm happy with the electronics as well. However, I do not like the software, apart from the bugs, some things are underdeveloped. This is my big disappointment considering other Siglent measuring devices I have where the firmware level is at a much better level.
For example, even such a screensaver is poorly implemented. To wake up the meter I have to press a button, it would be intuitive to press any key - but not because pressing it when the screen is off activates another function in addition to waking up (normally this pressing should be ignored and only wake up the screen). I omit other minor or major shortcomings compared to the 34465A on which Siglent heavily modeled the GUI. Because after so many years on the market, the firmware should be refined, or at least error-free.
I also have the Keysight 34465A and it's a different level but also a different price. The current price has dropped slightly, however, at the time of purchase, the SDM3065X was not available on the market. The price in companies having it in stock was much higher than the price suggested by the manufacturer (apart from the very unfavorable exchange rate of the dollar to the Polish currency, which increased the price even more).
This made me buy the SDM3065X instead of the second 34465A. Although after some consideration it has its positive sides. I wanted to completely abandon the use of a handheld multimeter at home (stationary is much more convenient). On the other hand, equipment used every day for many hours (as a multimeter is a basic work tool) can be damaged by accident / fatigue. In the case of Siglent, such an event as damage is also a "lesser loss". So Keysight stays for measurements where greater confidence is required, and Siglent for everyday use. I also have an old 34401A, but it serves more as a reserve, due to its age, it's a pity to destroy it - especially the display that burns out.
When it comes to the number of digits in a digital multimeter, it can be used in various ways. For example, my Brymen BM869S has a 50000 mode - it is even very accurate in it. However, with such a multimeter, this digit can be used to observe trends where accuracy itself is not so much required. Although here, too, Siglent and Keysight, which have charts, have a greater advantage. Yes, I can connect Brymen to a computer, but it's less convenient.
As for the references themselves, choosing them by manufacturers, etc., I will not investigate where the truth is. Both devices have their specifications in terms of how they will age in 90 days or a year and if they fit within those and I am happy with what they offer I don't care what reference voltage the manufacturer puts in.
Here, anyway, in order to conclude something, you would need to conduct reliable research with an established methodology, and not rely on a few photos from the forum to determine how important the problem may be.
On the other hand, looking at how much I paid for the SDM3065X because I managed to buy it at an attractive price, I am generally satisfied with the equipment despite many shortcomings - because basically there is nothing else on the market that can be reasonably purchased at this price.
Other Chinese brands such as Hantek, Owon, etc. I rather avoid, I do not trust this equipment. Rigol, which I used to be a fan of, also lost my trust because of bad software - I hope it won't happen with Siglent (the company will understand that in addition to the price of hardware, issues such as software quality and the speed of delivery of patches matter).
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I'm happy with the electronics as well. However, I do not like the software, apart from the bugs, some things are underdeveloped. This is my big disappointment considering other Siglent measuring devices I have where the firmware level is at a much better level.
Yes, resulting from several development teams without common oversight.
However worthy feedback can bring about change/improvements.
Suggest you list all improvements you would like to see in a careful manner so they can be considered without risk of misinterpretation.
Keep them short with bullet points with how things work now and expected behaviour desired and I'll push it on.
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...
Suggest you list all improvements you would like to see in a careful manner so they can be considered without risk of misinterpretation.
Keep them short with bullet points with how things work now and expected behaviour desired and I'll push it on.
- Update the user manual, to reflect the improvements provided by firmware updates, since the release of the largely outdated manual currently available
- Make the SDM3055 a 240,000 count as advertised, because it behaves like a 220,000 count
- Less important, but since we are here: Provide a way to see in DUAL mode the frequency and period as stated in Table 2-12, page 41 of the manual
PS: Thanks for your efforts tautech
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Is it possible to configure an SDM3065X to measure an NTC (with known parameters) and continuously display the corresponding temperature?
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You can define custom sensors and basically provide a table for the parameters
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how is that done? I cannot find it in the manual?
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Page 51-53..
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Page 51-53..
In what version of the manual?
The SDM3065X_Usermanual_E02B says nothing about custom sensor :-//
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It doesn't say it directly, that's true.
But point 3 in the chapter describes the loading/displaying of the configurations, so it is obvious that you can create a configuration yourself.
I look tomorrow whether one can get it also without special entry in the manual.
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...
But point 3 in the chapter describes the loading/displaying of the configurations, so it is obvious that you can create a configuration yourself.
...
The configurations described in the manual are the ones built in (fixed for each type of usable sensor), not user customisable.
All the SDM manuals that I'm aware, predate de "custom sensor" option (and other options), hence my previous posted request for updated manuals.
Thanks anyway.
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Hi,
User defineable sensors were already integrated in the 2020 firmware update, last updated usermanual is from 2022...
Have they probably overlooked...again and agian. ;)
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That may be the case for the SDM3065X manual since I didn't find a date on it, but for the latest SDM3045X manual the release date is 2016 and for the SDM3055 is 2014
Being the versions I'm aware:
SDM3045x_UserManual_UM06034-E01A (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDM3045x_UserManual_UM06034-E01A.pdf)
SDM3055x_UserManual_UM06035-E02A (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDM3055x_UserManual_UM06035-E02A.pdf)
And then detected an hint for the release date of the 3065 manual... ^-^
From the link https ://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2022/03/SDM3065X_Usermanual_E02B.pdf
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All SDM manuals are dated here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/documents/?CateIdss=5
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The dates on that site seems to be upload dates, not the actual release dates of the user manuals, unless I'm missing something
SDM3045X - date on the site is 2019/06/12 but on the manual is 2016
SDM3055 - date on the site is 2019/06/12 but on the manual is 2014
SDM3065X - date on the site is 2022-03-29 and there's no release date on the manual
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The dates on that site seems to be upload dates, not the actual release dates of the user manuals, unless I'm missing something
SDM3045X - date on the site is 2019/06/12 but on the manual is 2016
SDM3055 - date on the site is 2019/06/12 but on the manual is 2014
SDM3065X - date on the site is 2022-03-29 and there's no release date on the manual
Product release dates. ;)
The file date is when the revision was released/uploaded.
We can also identify revisions from 'E02A' etc.
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It doesn't say it directly, that's true.
But point 3 in the chapter describes the loading/displaying of the configurations, so it is obvious that you can create a configuration yourself.
I look tomorrow whether one can get it also without special entry in the manual.
Tried today, couldn´t get it working with a thermistor or a diode (1N4148).
Would be nice if siglent will update the usermanual with explanations how to configure the custom sensor.
Will contact siglent.eu and ask for it, maybe there is somewhere a app-note for it.
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Has been forwarded... 8)
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It doesn't say it directly, that's true.
But point 3 in the chapter describes the loading/displaying of the configurations, so it is obvious that you can create a configuration yourself.
I look tomorrow whether one can get it also without special entry in the manual.
Tried today, couldn´t get it working with a thermistor or a diode (1N4148).
Would be nice if siglent will update the usermanual with explanations how to configure the custom sensor.
Will contact siglent.eu and ask for it, maybe there is somewhere a app-note for it.
Yeah we looked into this awhile back and also couldn't figure out how this worked, thanks for pinging Siglent!
Best,
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Hello,
I'm trying to control my SDM4045X via SCPI. I've got most of it working but now want to know if the device is measuring, waiting for a trigger or 'idle' but can't figure out a way to do this via SCPI (on the display it is show in the upper left corner). I'm using a socket connection via ethernet and FW 5.01.01.09R2.
The SCPI manual briefly mentions the standard *STB?, *ESR?, *OPC commands but doesn't explain exactly what is supported or not.
I've tried:
- *OPC/*OPC? that doesn't seem to work for what I want to know.
- I'v also looked into some of the undocumented SCPI commands: status:oper:cond:.... The standard operating register doesn't seem to get filled although the ENABLE/ENABLE? part to define the route the standard operating register to the status byte register seems to work.
Basically I would like to do the following:
STAT:OPER:COND?
This always seems to return 0. :(
Any hints?
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Has been forwarded... 8)
Fast response:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/adding-customer-defined-temperature-sensors-dmm-sdm3000/
A pre-release version, so that you can get ahead for now. 8)
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Has been forwarded... 8)
Fast response:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/adding-customer-defined-temperature-sensors-dmm-sdm3000/
A pre-release version, so that you can get ahead for now. 8)
To where can I send you a crate of beer? ^-^
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Half of it should go to Mr. Rottach from Siglent Europe, for his very quick response. :D
I'm going to give this a try this weekend.
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Has been forwarded... 8)
Fast response:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/adding-customer-defined-temperature-sensors-dmm-sdm3000/
A pre-release version, so that you can get ahead for now. 8)
Thanks Martin, added to POI list.
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In a quick attempt, manage to create a custom sensor, not for temperature but for a current clamp ICA32N that in the 100A range as an output of 10mV/A.
Readings are jumping more that desirable, neither are linear in the short range of current measured but that was not a concern. I just created a straight forward table with a dozen values to test if the thing works. I believe that it did, though I had to create the sensor in the internal memory, and when tried to store the sensor in the USB stick it allowed me to, but when tried to read the file I got an error and the meter freezed. I have to check that later, but even if it works only in the internal memory I'm OK with that.
PS: When choosing the UNIT, the option selected was "Custom Unit" and chose the letter "A" (since the intention is to read Amps)
PS2: The table was created with half a dozen values, later edited and more values were added, with no problem.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1873996;image)
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Martin72, thanks for this info. I wil certainly try it. Any idea how many values can be put into that conversion table? Since the behaviour of NTC (and others) is strictly non-linear, the more entrires the better the precision.
Suggestion to Siglent: why not allow for entry of a math equation to define a known sensor? (More difficult to implement in soft of course)??
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Martin72, thanks for this info. I wil certainly try it. Any idea how many values can be put into that conversion table? Since the behaviour of NTC (and others) is strictly non-linear, the more entrires the better the precision.
Suggestion to Siglent: why not allow for entry of a math equation to define a known sensor? (More difficult to implement in soft of course)??
I seem to recall a table size of 20 entries when I was trying to create a custom temperature sensor for one of my 'oddball' (ie unknown) thermistors recovered from various scrapped circuit boards. I'd initially assumed it would neatly interpolate the correct curve for any NTC thermistor from as few as just three entries only to be disappointed by the absence of any mathematical processing beyond a simple linear interpolation :(
The thermistor manufacturers provide resistance versus temperature tables, commonly in 10 and 5 degree steps (and possibly even down to 2 or 1 degree steps if you ask nicely). A twenty entries table using 5 degree steps covers a range of 100 degrees with pretty good accuracy for most purposes if the errors at the extreme ends of your chosen range aren't going to be a problem (typically true in most usage cases).
I'm surprised Siglent didn't think to enhance the custom sensors with an NTC setup option using the Steinhart equation where you'd only need to load the reference temperature and corresponding reference resistance (eg, 10K at 25 degrees) and the thermistor's B coefficient (typically 3995).
That option would allow you to experiment with the coefficients to more accurately characterise a randomly selected NTC thermistor such as the one I'm using to sense the heatspreader temperature attached to the base plate of an LPRO 101 rubidium oscillator which had measured 30K at 36 degrees and I'd simply plugged in a B value of 3995 as a starting point in the steinhart equation I was using in an Arduino sketch to stabilize the rubidium's base plate to 36.05 deg +/- 10mK or better.
In this case I was using a series resistor of 30K to gain the best accuracy at my desired setpoint temperature. The benchmeter would be using a constant current source to measure the resistance more directly (no need to add a resistance calculation step as my Arduino sketch requires).
From my own oversampling experiments (using floating point math, btw) to wring a few more bits of accuracy out of a nano's 10 bit adc (ranging from 64 right up to 1024 oversampling values), I rather doubt the floating point calculations would burn up more than a microsecond's worth of cpu cycles per measurement cycle.
In view of the above, I'm rather surprised Siglent failed to add such a useful feature for so little cost in cpu cycles. Mind you, in view of the abysmal UI design of every model of SDG they've produced, perhaps I shouldn't be so surprised after all. :( >:(
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After a successful input of a table directly in the internal memory of the SDM3055, I copied the table to an USB stick to get the structure needed of the .csv file
It goes something like this:
Name,./usr/usr/SAVE/ICA32N.sensor.csv,
Unit,A,
Model,DCV,
Sensor_name,ICA32N,
Data,0.000000,0.000000,
Data,0.001000,0.100000,
Data,0.002000,0.200000,
Data,0.003000,0.300000,
...
Built the table in Excel, with the data I wanted, dragging the cells, and later in the notepad (or whatever), replaced the ; for , and such.
In Excel you can apply any formula you need to convert the input data to the desired output.
With the new table in the USB stick, dumped it to internal memory of meter.
When the table has to many rows, it would be useful to be able to jump directly to the top or bottom of the table.
There's an empty space in the function menu that could be fitted with that functionality ^-^
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Strange measurements in the "0.05PLC" mode
SDM3065X-SC
Mode: DCV
Range: 2V
Aperture: 0.05PLC
Auto Zero: Off
Input Z: 10G
Rel: Off
The signal -2.1978V -> +2.1898V (blue line) is supplied to the input and the measured voltage (red points) is recorded.
Only after ~40 measurements managed to get "+2.1898V"
It turns out that the real measuring speed is not "1000 Reading/s", but "25 Reading/s".
[attach=1]
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Today a K-Type adapter arrived.
Looks good, fits perfect into the sockets of my SDM3065X :-+
Connect a suitable sensor and let the SDM measure the temp ( choosing "KIS90" in the menu), works fine.
BTW, the sensors are custom handmade in germany (sensorshop24)... 8)
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@Martin72
I'd say the fit of the adapter is the least of your problems in this case. Unless your experience was hugely different to mine, I'm guessing you'll be using that dedicated handheld digital thermometer to measure temperature with K type thermocouple sensors rather than use the SDM3065X. ;)
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@Martin72
I'd say the fit of the adapter is the least of your problems in this case. Unless your experience was hugely different to mine, I'm guessing you'll be using that dedicated handheld digital thermometer to measure temperature with K type thermocouple sensors rather than use the SDM3065X. ;)
Maybe you missed or didn't fully understand this post: :-//
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5064094/#msg5064094 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5064094/#msg5064094)
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Continuation of experiments from "0.05PLC":
Input signal ±2V (blue line)
Range: Auto (red dots)
[attach=1]
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It looks like the SDM3065 uses some digital fitlering when in the fast modes. This is odd, as to a large part it makes the response slow, like 1 or 2 PLC. Not sure if there is a way to turn of the filtering part - if not this is not a good feature.
It looks like the autoranging is however fast and after switching ranges there is a instant result - looks like not even missing 1 reading from going from 0.2 to 2 V range.
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@Martin72
I'd say the fit of the adapter is the least of your problems in this case. Unless your experience was hugely different to mine, I'm guessing you'll be using that dedicated handheld digital thermometer to measure temperature with K type thermocouple sensors rather than use the SDM3065X. ;)
Maybe you missed or didn't fully understand this post: :-//
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5064094/#msg5064094 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5064094/#msg5064094)
I read that post so I guess it has to be the latter. However, my point had been the result of a needlessly fast update rate which appears to be 10PLC (5Hz refresh rate) with a very noisy sensor signal.
All the digits to the right of the decimal point do a digital dance making it difficult to interpret the value to even just one decimal place. The remaining 3 digits are just a useless distraction. This is compounded by the less than stellar 'cold junction' temperature compensation (understandable considering the CAT I requirement). However, this may be a case of "RTFM" (at least as far as my dialing out the reference offset error is concerned) so when I can spare the time, I'll delve into the latest manual to better acquaint myself with the function(s) of the RefTemp and Rel buttons. :-[
[EDIT] The manual was no help at all in this case. :(
I gave up trying to obtain useful temperature readings with the KITS90 sensor option over a year ago and, right now, this is just a major distraction from my current MK III GPSDO project (basically a respin of the MK II but with a ZED9-T in place of the M8T module).
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Hi,
First and foremost, I posted it to express my delight that there is an adapter that also mechanically fits my pretty good K-type sensors. 8)
But yes, the temperature display itself is very "nervous" - I had no time to look for it yesterday:
Is there no "Average" mode ?
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Hi,
First and foremost, I posted it to express my delight that there is an adapter that also mechanically fits my pretty good K-type sensors. 8)
But yes, the temperature display itself is very "nervous" - I had no time to look for it yesterday:
Is there no "Average" mode ?
Not as far as I could discover (and believe me, I did search for such an option). As for that adapter, I have to agree with your assessment - I have one myself (among a collection other similar adapters). I'd been hoping to track one down that continued the chromel / alumel wire alloys into the pins to extend the "cold junction" all the way into the banana jacks.
Needless to say, none of these adapters used chromel / alumel for the pins and, in retrospect, I guess there simply isn't any demand in this case since, unlike our Siglent bench meters with their 13 watt heat source to set up a 3 to 4 degree gradient with respect to ambient temperature, the hand held battery powered meters they're intended to be used with don't suffer such a thermal gradient issue due there being at most, only a few milli-Watts of heat energy to generate little more than a few mK temperature gradient.
The cheap TM-902C K type thermocouple thermometers I bought only draw 0.6mA 0.35mA from a 3v battery. That's little more than 1mW to generate any thermal gradient between the chip and the socket that's worth correcting for. Obviously,"cold junction" compensation for ambient is applied, probably using an on chip sensor diode to keep instrument manufacturing costs to a minimum.
I expect that your handheld digital thermometer is likely to have a similarly low energy consumption (on a par with a modern hand held multimeter) so there's little point in making such adapters using chromel and alumel pins. If I'd realised at the time that my quest for such a high spec adapter would be a futile one, I'd be about ten quid better off by buying just a single cheap Chinese adapter plug. :palm:
I did manage to acquire a connector with alumel and chromel pins, a yellow K type plug used to terminate the K type thermocouple sensor wires. The pins were actually stamped with "AL" on the negative magnetic pin and "CH" on the positive non-magnetic pin. Both pins on your adapter should prove to be magnetic assuming mine is completely identical to yours (appearance-wise they are as far as I can see).
I seem to have purchased only the one which remains unused. I guess I must have realised that it would only ever be of any benefit if I acquired a lab grade bench thermometer where a similar quality panel mounted socket was connected to a proper isothermal cold junction deep in the guts of the instrument via alumel/chromel connecting wires. The cheap TM-902C and similar handhelds wouldn't see any benefit from such a K type plug upgrade to any of my existing collection of thermocouples hence it remaining an unused spare.
===============================================================================================================
[EDIT 2023-09-22]
It turns out that I'd actually bought a set of four of these K type plugs. I was looking through my collection of spare thermocouples today and found one with an upgraded plug already attached, swiftly followed by then discovering the other two plugs in a resealable polyethylene bag.
===============================================================================================================
I landed up purchasing three of these cheap TM-902C meters. The first was a DoA for which I got a full refund and a spare thermocouple. Of the other two, one had the momentary on/off push button which defaulted to a ten minute power down time out, the other a slide switch which didn't have such an annoying time out feature. This was the one I chose to use, setting aside the push button one as a spare.
A few weeks (or months) later, I experimented with the push button unit to see if there was any (undocumented) way to disable the rather annoying time out feature and, as luck would have it, it did indeed have such an option. Basically, after it has booted up and is reporting temperature, it's simply a matter of holding the button down until the clock icon disappears from the top left corner of the display (about ten seconds). Thereafter until you toggle it off or leave it on for the next three months to flatten the battery, it will continue showing temperature readings. However, it remains relegated as "my spare" since it under-reads the other by almost 2 deg C. The slide switch one tracks my other thermometers to within half a degree so remains my TC thermometer of choice.
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I wanted a 2nd bench meter, so I found a decent deal on a used SDM3055. Naturally I had to do a quick comparison:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=1881469;image)
Results are less stable on the 3055. The X-E version has had a lot more use and break-in time. Does the 3055 also need a lot of break-in time for stability?
Thanks,
Josh
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Still curious about accuracy comparing the 3055 to the 3055X-E, I ran some more tests. This time using the math function to show averages. A minimum of 2500 samples, some closer to 8k...
Tied to the same voltage source:
0.000V: within 2µV of each other
2.500V: within 9µV of each other
5.000V: within 13µV of each other
7.500V: within 16µV of each other
10.00V: within 20µV of each other
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I wanted a 2nd bench meter, so I found a decent deal on a used SDM3055.
Results are less stable on the 3055. The X-E version has had a lot more use and break-in time. Does the 3055 also need a lot of break-in time for stability?
The more precise 3055 reference could do, not sure.
Q. Boot # for your new/old SDM3055 ?
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The more precise 3055 reference could do, not sure.
Q. Boot # for your new/old SDM3055 ?
The used 3055 had 26 start ups when I got it. It has 30 now, compared to the 139 of the X-E. I also have left the X-E running for hours at a time.
I had both units on DCV with no leads plugged in. The X-E showed 00.0000 and the 5500 showed 00.0006. Both have the filter on. With significant samples, the X-E stayed the same, and the average dropped to 00.0005 for the 5500.
Then I switched to 200mV range, and the 3055 was closer to zero, but still less stable.
Do you think I need to have the 5500 calibrated? Will Siglent calibrate it for free since the calibration expired before the receipt date? Purchase date was March 21st 2023, and cal expired 2022-07-14. I think the cal expired for both meters before the purchase dates.
I'm assuming either way I should give it a lot of burn-in time first.
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Looking at the voltage with open input and presumably 10 M input resistance mode can give a hint on the input bias current (to gether with the actual zero reading with a low thermal EMF short).
The open terminal case is otherwise not that relevant. A zero input both meter versions should give about the same stability and noise - no significant difference expected that far. Maybe the fan can help with a more stable thermal state.
A difference in the noise may be with a significant voltage, like 2 V at the input. Here the lower noise ref. in the better meter could be visible. Still some 6 µV_pp (at 2 V from the REF 5025 for the 0.1 to 10 Hz range) is not much and my be swamped with other noise sources. The normal readings are usually lower BW, but also lower frequencies (more like 0.01 to 1 Hz) - so a direct comparison is not that easy.
The statistic function (e.g. observe over some 100 readings at the slow setting) may give more quantitative values for the noise.
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The more precise 3055 reference could do, not sure.
Q. Boot # for your new/old SDM3055 ?
The used 3055 had 26 start ups when I got it.
Ah, almost like new then. :-+
It has 30 now, compared to the 139 of the X-E. I also have left the X-E running for hours at a time.
I had both units on DCV with no leads plugged in. The X-E showed 00.0000 and the 55 showed 00.0006. Both have the filter on. With significant samples, the X-E stayed the same, and the average dropped to 00.0005 for the 5500.
Then I switched to 200mV range, and the 3055 was closer to zero, but still less stable.
Do you think I need to have the 55 calibrated?
With that low boot count, no not yet, give it more run time.
I'm assuming either way I should give it a lot of burn-in time first.
:-+
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Question:
What do you consider a standard calibration period? 1 Year? Something else?
If you purchase a DMM, and the calibration is over a year old, what would you expect of the manufacturer? Or let's say, a random number like...11 months old compared to the purchase date? What then?
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Question:
What do you consider a standard calibration period? 1 Year? Something else?
If you purchase a DMM, and the calibration is over a year old, what would you expect of the manufacturer? Or let's say, a random number like...11 months old compared to the purchase date? What then?
Unsurprisingly, that depends on the requirements and technology.
For a DMM the most common calibration interval is one year, but certain instruments fit extra stable resistor networks and then guarantee their long-term specs for two years - which of course also means that the calibration interval is that long.
For demanding tasks, where highest accuracy is needed, you can still use the meter as a transfer standard using the short term specifications, but for this, the calibration intervals are much shorter, like e.g. 60 days or even 24 hours in extreme cases.
For the question how companies handle old stock with expired calibration - they might sell it at a discount, such as Siglent does:
https://siglentna.com/products/clearance/
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For the question how companies handle old stock with expired calibration - they might sell it at a discount, such as Siglent does:
https://siglentna.com/products/clearance/
Interesting, but I'm not talking about old stock, I'm talking about purchasing on Amazon brand new with an expired or nearly expired cal cert (which is fairly common).
How would specific companies handle that?
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If you buy from a dealer, be it Amazon or anyone else, this is your contract partner, so it is between you (the customer) and the dealer to negotiate a discount or a replacement with a freshly calibrated device. Getting delivered a device that is out of cal. would be a reason for a warranty claim against the dealer.
What we don't know is what kind of contract, agreement the dealer has with the manufactuer. Basically it would not be surprising if the storage risk is completely at the dealer's side, i.e. if they stock gear that they cannot sell in time they will have to grant a discount - renewing the calibration would not be an option for most dealers. Thing is, calibration is cheapest when done in the course of production and final quality control in the factory, where the initial adjustment has to be done anyway, so the calibration data is spawned practically for free.
And it is not clear to me, how partially expired cal. certificates should be handled. Aging is slower at the dealer on the shelf than in your lab in actual use, hence sometimes manufactuerers might specify a longer validity for the calibration in such cases of long storage times.
You could try to convince the dealer to accept the following simple calculation: if the calibration is valid for one year, and a new calibration costs e.g. $200,- and if you get the device half a year after the cal. date, i.e. calibration is "half expired", you want a discount of half the calibration cost, i.e. $100,- ;)
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Taking advantage of the 10% Siglent discount until the end of the month and other 5% discount code, bought a SDM3045X, that came with firmware version 5.02.01.09R2
What's the difference between the version 5.02.01.09R2 to the latest firmware available to download V5.01.01.09R2 (Release Date 04.27.23)?
By the way, the calibration date is 2023-05-31
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Here's Siglent's policy statement on the matter with regard to the SDS2104X+ I'd purchased just over 3 years ago.[attachimg=1]
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Here's Siglent's policy statement on the matter with regard to the SDS2104X+ I'd purchased just over 3 years ago.
2023 Calibration statement:
Recommended Due Date for Calibration
SIGLENT has determined that the factory calibration of the following models is not significantly affected by storage of up to 18 months before first-time use. Cal Interval should start at the time the unit is placed in service or 18 Months past the “Date of Calibration” on the certificate received with the unit.
Models effected by this notice:
·
SDS1000DL+ Series Oscilloscopes
·
SDS1000X-E/U Series Oscilloscopes
·
SDS2000X-E Series Oscilloscopes
·
SSA3000X Series Spectrum Analyzers
·
SPS5000X Power Supplies
·
SPD1000X Power Supplies
SPD3000 Power Supplies
SDG1000X arbitrary waveform generators
SDG2000X arbitrary waveform generators
Determine the date when the next Cal is due (refer to the examples shown below)
Example 1: First-time use of instrument is less than 18 Months after “Date of Calibration”.
Date of Calibration: 2019-06-17
Example calibration interval: 12 months
First-time use of instrument: 2019-8-17
First-time use + Example calibration interval = Date for next calibration
2019-8-17 + 12 months = 2020-8-17
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example 2: First-time use of instrument is more than 18 Months after “Date of Calibration”.
Date of Calibration: 2019-06-17
Example calibration interval: 12 months
First-time use of instrument: 2021-1-17
Date of Calibration + 18 Months + Example calibration interval = Date for next calibration
2019-6-17 + 18 Months + 12 months = 2021-12-17
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/
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I noticed that the SDS2000-X Plus and SDM series don't get any mention in that list of 'models effected'. Does that mean they have a different policy for those models?
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I noticed that the SDS2000-X Plus and SDM series don't get any mention in that list of 'models effected'. Does that mean they have a different policy for those models?
Siglent NA told me the 12 months + 180 days thing for the SDM. I guess they did okay since they offered to calibrate my SDM3055 for half price under the circumstances. Of course, I asked them if I could wait a couple months because I want more break-in time first, and I haven't heard back yet, so we'll see. 🤷
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Wow! I just saw on eBay, that if you think an SDM3045X is too cheap, you can buy the same DMM with a Lecroy badge on it for the price of the SDM3065X. Cool! :-DD
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Wow! I just saw on eBay, that if you think an SDM3045X is too cheap, you can buy the same DMM with a Lecroy badge on it for the price of the SDM3065X. Cool! :-DD
Not only this multimeter can be purchased with a LeCroy badge at a "good" price ;) What's funny is that when I looked at equipment with the LeCroy badge, I don't know why it has terribly delayed firmware updates (or maybe even no update - I haven't checked for a long time whether they have published any newer firmware for both SDM and SVA).
I once thought about uploading the firmware from "LeCroy" (Firmware for SVA). However, it turned out that updates are worse there and the firmware is much older.
On the other hand, you can always print a Teledyne badge and change the launch logo for more prestige - this is a certain advantage of Siglent equipment :-DD
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Taking advantage of the 10% Siglent discount until the end of the month and other 5% discount code, bought a SDM3045X, that came with firmware version 5.02.01.09R2
What's the difference between the version 5.02.01.09R2 to the latest firmware available to download V5.01.01.09R2 (Release Date 04.27.23)?
By the way, the calibration date is 2023-05-31
For now the difference is that you cannot flash it with a SDM3055X-E firmware. For me, trying to flash any official firmware gives "Update fail" although I don't know if a downgrade ever worked.
There's already a thread about it: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-to-sdm3055x-e-improvement-thread/msg5075350/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-to-sdm3055x-e-improvement-thread/msg5075350/)
Hopefully there will be a solution :-\
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There's a new user manual for the SDM3055
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/10/SDM3055_UserManual-EN03B.pdf
Unfortunately, despite the updated display screenshots in the manual, there's no explanations about calibration, Ref. temperature or custom sensor :-//
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I had yesterday the calibration protocol for my 3065X sent,
I put a link to it(24h), you can look at better than these csv files I got before.
Uploaded I have everything except the page with further information such as serial number.
The execution of the protocol.....well, it is sufficient for private use. ;)
A few display errors, but that does not bother me.
The main thing is that I have it.
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Hello friends,
do you have any examples of remote communication with the multimeter SDM3055?
I'm using the language that the Agilent HP34401A use with the Metcal 7 Fluke Software, but I can't get the readings.
Thanks
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Hello friends,
do you have any examples of remote communication with the multimeter SDM3055?
I'm using the language that the Agilent HP34401A use with the Metcal 7 Fluke Software, but I can't get the readings.
Thanks
There's the programming guide: https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDM-Series-Digital-Multimeter_ProgrammingGuide_EN02A.pdf
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Hello friends,
do you have any examples of remote communication with the multimeter SDM3055?
I'm using the language that the Agilent HP34401A use with the Metcal 7 Fluke Software, but I can't get the readings.
Thanks
Hi! The language is called SCPI. In Easy DMM, the Siglent software for DMM3XXX you have a SCPI console to test the commands (Control tab-> Send Command).
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Hello friends,
do you have any examples of remote communication with the multimeter SDM3055?
I'm using the language that the Agilent HP34401A use with the Metcal 7 Fluke Software, but I can't get the readings.
Thanks
I've been playing with Python and some of my Siglent instruments so here's some code to read current, voltage and calculate power from 2 SDM30XX
# Reading voltage and current with Siglent multimeters
# current: SDM3055
# voltage: SDM3045X
import pyvisa
import time
from pyvisa import errors
# --------------------------------------------------------------
class Multimeter:
def __init__(self, device):
self.device = device
def measure_current(self):
'''Ampmeter ID '''
amp_meter_id = self.device.query('*IDN?').split(',')
print("\nDMM Amp: " + str(amp_meter_id[1]).strip())
# Set as DCI
self.device.write("CONF:CURR:DC")
# measure current (A)
current = float(self.device.query('READ?'))
time.sleep(0.2)
print(f"Current = {current:.5f} A")
return current
def measure_voltage(self):
'''Voltmeter ID'''
volt_meter_id = self.device.query('*IDN?').split(',')
print("\nDMM Volt: " + str(volt_meter_id[1]).strip())
# Set as DCV
self.device.write("CONF:VOLT:DC")
# measure voltage (V)
voltage = float(self.device.query('READ?'))
time.sleep(0.2)
print(f"Voltage = {voltage:.5f} V")
return voltage
# --------------------------------------------------------------
def main():
rm = pyvisa.ResourceManager()
# Device LAN connections (set IPs)
SDM45 = 'TCPIP0::192.168.0.45::inst0::INSTR'
SDM55 = 'TCPIP0::192.168.0.55::inst0::INSTR'
amp_meter = None
volt_meter = None
# Try to connect to amp_meter (DMM1)
try:
amp_meter = Multimeter(rm.open_resource(SDM55))
print("Ampmeter connected.")
except errors.VisaIOError:
print("Ampmeter not found!")
# Try to connect to volt_meter (DMM2)
try:
volt_meter = Multimeter(rm.open_resource(SDM45))
print("Voltmeter connected.")
except errors.VisaIOError:
print("Voltmeter not found!")
while True:
print("\n== MENU =========")
print("1. Measure current")
print("2. Measure voltage")
print("3. Measure power")
print("0. END")
print("=================")
choice = input("OPTION: ")
if choice == '1' and amp_meter is not None:
amp_meter.measure_current()
elif choice == '2' and volt_meter is not None:
volt_meter.measure_voltage()
elif choice == '3' and amp_meter is not None and volt_meter is not None:
voltage = volt_meter.measure_voltage()
current = amp_meter.measure_current()
power = voltage * current
print(f"\nPower = {power:.5f} W")
elif choice == '0':
if amp_meter is not None:
amp_meter.device.close()
if volt_meter is not None:
volt_meter.device.close()
print("Terminated")
break
else:
print("Invalid OPTION or device not connected.")
if __name__ == "__main__":
main()
This site can be a good reading source: https://www.iu3jsx.it/wp/2023/01/29/bench-multimeter-remote-programming-using-python/ (https://www.iu3jsx.it/wp/2023/01/29/bench-multimeter-remote-programming-using-python/)
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Hello guys,
thanks for help me.
I manage to communicate with the Siglent, but the problem is when it comes to communicating it with Fluke's Metcal software. Below I've put the code I use for an Agilent 34401A. I'm trying to adapt the code.... let's see if anyone has experiences with the Metcal program.....
STEP FSC RANGE NOMINAL TOLERANCE MOD1 MOD2 3 4 CON
5.001 HEAD DC VOLTAGE: {1V Range}
5.002 TARGET
5.003 IEEE VOLT:DC:RANG 1V;*OPC?
5.004 M550 RNGLK 3.3V
5.005 ASK- U
5.006 5500 0.000000V E S 2W
5.007 ASK+ U
5.008 IEEE READ?READ?
5.009 MATH M[100] = MEM
5.010 5500 1.000000V E S 2W
5.011 MATH MEM = (1 + (1 - MEM1)) - M[100]
5.012 5500 V E S 2W
5.013 JMP 5.015
# This statment is only included so a compile time TUR report is possible.
5.014 5500 1.000000V E S 2W
5.015 MATH MEM1 = 1
5.016 IEEE READ?
5.017 MEME
5.018 MEMC 1 V 0.000047U
thanks
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Martin72, thanks for this info. I wil certainly try it. Any idea how many values can be put into that conversion table? Since the behaviour of NTC (and others) is strictly non-linear, the more entrires the better the precision.
Suggestion to Siglent: why not allow for entry of a math equation to define a known sensor? (More difficult to implement in soft of course)??
RikV did you ever make a table for the NTC 10k thermistor? I find I need the same thing to monitor the battery temp sense wire.
Siglent, adding NTC models to the SDM3065X would be a welcome addition. These are such common devices.
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colorado.rob,
I did not (yet). I made an excel sheet to calculate Temp vs measured resistance and vice versa.
Indeed an urgent suggestion to Siglent! Shame on them!
This is also helpful: https://www.thinksrs.com/downloads/programs/therm%20calc/ntccalibrator/ntccalculator.html (https://www.thinksrs.com/downloads/programs/therm%20calc/ntccalibrator/ntccalculator.html)
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We just received 2 new SDM3065X Bench multimeters at work. They came with more recent firmware than currently available at Siglents' website - 3.02.01.12R1 vs 3.01.01.12R1
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To me it looks more like a display error.
It would be more than atypical to specify such versioning. I would expect a version 3.02.0.2 or similar.
What's strange is that version 2 has exactly the same R12 as version 1. Possibly a bug in the update.
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It's not a bug, they changed the numbering/ID scheme to be annoying. There might actually be a related hardware change, but my guess is that it's to make hacking things harder.
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We just received 2 new SDM3065X Bench multimeters at work. They came with more recent firmware than currently available at Siglents' website - 3.02.01.12R1 vs 3.01.01.12R1
In Reply #1628 can be observed the same "phenomenon" on a SDM3045X.
It's not a bug. It's a bugger!
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but my guess is that it's to make hacking things harder.
But this was reported on a SDM3065X. What is there to hack on that model? The only thing I could think of is adding the scanner card, but that requires hardware mods -- I think the firmware already has support for it.
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But this was reported on a SDM3065X. What is there to hack on that model? The only thing I could think of is adding the scanner card, but that requires hardware mods -- I think the firmware already has support for it.
🤷I dunno. it could just be a hardware revision change with the same firmware. Point being it's not something new, and it's definitely not a bug.
I know from the 3045X improvement thread that it prevents the upgrade from happening for now.
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I just bought an SDM3055 and I have a basic question for you guys. Is there no way to get a single beep in diode mode? I read through the manual and on page 33/34 it looks like it should be able to, but I can't get it to operate that way unless I'm not understanding it correctly. I'd like it to be like my fluke 289 = nothing on open, single beep for working diode, and continuous for short. Is that possible? Thanks
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I just bought an SDM3055 and I have a basic question for you guys. Is there no way to get a single beep in diode mode? I read through the manual and on page 33/34 it looks like it should be able to, but I can't get it to operate that way unless I'm not understanding it correctly. I'd like it to be like my fluke 289 = nothing on open, single beep for working diode, and continuous for short. Is that possible? Thanks
Not sure about the SDM3055 but on my SDM3065X you get a continuous diode beep when voltage drop is below the set threshold. There is no distinction between working diode and a short.
When in diode mode, the 3065X has 3 options along the bottom: Beeper On/Off, Threshold voltage, and Volume. Do you not see those options on the 3055?
Honestly in my experience, and I have around 30 DMMs, is that very few follow Fluke's pattern of single vs continuous beep. Not even all Fluke's do it (my 87V and 117 do, my 17B Max and 101 do not beep at all). My Agilent 34401A does not beep at all in diode mode, whether diode junction or shorted, nor do any of my Brymen meters. Surprisingly, the Uni-T 61E+ does have the Fluke-style single vs continuous diode beep.
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Not sure about the SDM3055 but on my SDM3065X you get a continuous diode beep when voltage drop is below the set threshold. There is no distinction between working diode and a short.
When in diode mode, the 3065X has 3 options along the bottom: Beeper On/Off, Threshold voltage, and Volume. Do you not see those options on the 3055?
I do see those options and tried playing with the threshold, but it seems it will only go continuous or nothing. I must be misreading this line from the manual somehow, because it sounds like exactly what I want, but evidently it's not. Ah well, not the end of the world, just a feature I find handy on my Fluke 289.
[attach=1]
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Also KS 34465A does single beep on diode test mode. It's nice but not the end of the world if it wasn't.
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Not sure about the SDM3055 but on my SDM3065X you get a continuous diode beep when voltage drop is below the set threshold. There is no distinction between working diode and a short.
When in diode mode, the 3065X has 3 options along the bottom: Beeper On/Off, Threshold voltage, and Volume. Do you not see those options on the 3055?
I do see those options and tried playing with the threshold, but it seems it will only go continuous or nothing. I must be misreading this line from the manual somehow, because it sounds like exactly what I want, but evidently it's not. Ah well, not the end of the world, just a feature I find handy on my Fluke 289.
(Attachment Link)
Interesting, the 3065X manual doesn't mention a single beep at all. Just a (continuous) beep when below the threshold voltage. I wonder if they used to support it but dropped it in later firmware. I'd prefer that it did support the single beep and am curious why they'd remove support for it.
(https://www.morrisonline.us/images/Screenshot%202023-12-30%20142233.png)
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My Agilent 34401A does not beep at all in diode mode, whether diode junction or shorted, nor do any of my Brymen meters.
Correction: my eevBlog Brymen BM786 does mimic the Fluke behavior of single beep on diode junction and continuous beep on short. Nice! Further demonstrating that the BM78x is one of the best electronics handheld DMMs you can get.
However neither the flagship BM869s nor the FLIR DM64 (IIRC a BM235 inside) beep at all, even for a short.
-
Today using continuity mode on my SDM3065X, I noticed it was taking nearly 1 second for it to beep with shorted probes, limit is set to 2ohms. They are pretty clean and it was normal speed early, under a few hundred miliseconds.
I rebooted and it was still slow beeping, then I used resistance mode, and when I went back to continuity, it was back to normal.
Anyone have that happen before ? I don't think I've had it before. The DMM was on for 10-20min before I used it, and already on Cont.mode.
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Today using continuity mode on my SDM3065X, I noticed it was taking nearly 1 second for it to beep with shorted probes, limit is set to 2ohms. They are pretty clean and it was normal speed early, under a few hundred miliseconds.
I rebooted and it was still slow beeping, then I used resistance mode, and when I went back to continuity, it was back to normal.
Anyone have that happen before ? I don't think I've had it before. The DMM was on for 10-20min before I used it, and already on Cont.mode.
I haven't seen that problem specifically, but you might want to install the 3.01.01.12R1 firmware update if you haven't already. They significantly improved the continuity mode performance. Before that I would have said that 500ms latency was typical.
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Toady I used the DMM on Cont. and turned it off, then now 2-3hrs later when I turned it back on, it was slow again. But changing to Ohms and back to Cont. and it's back to normal. I use the setting where it remembers your settings (I wish I kenw about that in the 1st 1-2yrs I had it and my Siglent AWG)
I updated the firmware this spring/summer, that was easy so I'll check again.
-
I don't have a 3065, but I've never had that issue with either of the other 2 models.
-
...But changing to Ohms and back to Cont. and it's back to normal...
If this is repeatable for you, it indicates a bug.
A similar behavior and reset the error by the fact that you go briefly to another measurement type and back again
(only in another context by the 3055) there was a bug in a previous firmware at the 3055.
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I have an accuracy question. The 3055 datasheet for AC voltage says: 200 mV, 45 Hz – 20 kHz, 0.2 + 0.05
I'm testing 200mV at 1kHz. On my scope I get 200.04mV RMS.
SDM3055X-E says 202.36mV, and SDM3055 says 202.21mV. Doesn't that seem high? Shouldn't the above margin put it at 200.45mV? Or is that 0.2 a typo, and it should really be 1.2%?
Room temp is 20C, which is within the range for the above specs.
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Hi,
On my scope I get 200.04mV RMS.
The scope is not to be trusted in terms of accuracy, I would ignore it.
I would trust the SDM3055 meters, unless you know that the signal is exactly 200mV...
Source for the 200mV signal ?
-
Source for the 200mV signal ?
I'm testing the signal level on the ST2832 LCR.
Why not trust the scope? I can step through by 10mV from 10mV to 600mV, and the scope is dead on, with maybe a small µV variance. Then after 700mV to 1V there's a small mV difference, maybe +9mV or so. The rises a little higher over 1V, but it's consistent and repeatable for whatever that's worth.
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I'm testing the signal level on the ST2832 LCR
In normal mode the accuracy of the output level is:
± (10%×preset value+2mV)
I interpret this to mean that the signal can be anywhere between 182mV....222mV.
Your SDM3055 meters measure 202mV, your scope 200mV.
Now compare the vertical accuracy of your scope with the accuracy of your meters...
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I'm testing the signal level on the ST2832 LCR
In normal mode the accuracy of the output level is:
± (10%×preset value+2mV)
I interpret this to mean that the signal can be anywhere between 182mV....222mV.
Your SDM3055 meters measure 202mV, your scope 200mV.
Now compare the vertical accuracy of your scope with the accuracy of your meters...
The funny thing is that the DMMs spec sheet say 200mV to 750VAC. After letting the meters run for a week, they're all (scope + DMMs) basically in agreement for 20mV being ~20.2mV.
Before letting them run that long, the X-E said 18mV, and the 3055 said 27mV. So I'll call that an improvement.
-
Which meters do you use ?
3055, what is "X-E" ?
Scope is the SDS2504X plus, right ?
Edit:
Regarding your post edit with the pictures:
Use more vertical space when measuring.
I would not measure the 200mV signal at a setting of 500mV/div.
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Which meters do you use ?
3055, what is "X-E" ?
Scope is the SDS2504X plus, right ?
SDM3055 and SDM3055X-E (improved SDM3045X with China firmware).
Regarding your post edit with the pictures:
Use more vertical space when measuring.
I would not measure the 200mV signal at a setting of 500mV/div.
Sure, but I was ignoring the divs and just reading the measured RMS value.
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J-R gave me the excellent idea to use my AWG as a voltage ref. Looks good, even at lower mV.
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Why not trust the scope?
[/quote]
The specs for scopes are usually for something like +-1% to +-3% for the amplitude accuracy. So for the absolute scale the scope is rather poor.
One can however use the scope to check the frequency response to a certain degree. A DSO should have a resonable flat response between 1 kHz and 1 MHz.
Even there one has to be somewhat careful as there are compensated resistive / capacitive divders that can lead to some change in the amplitude when going from the resistive to capacitive dominated band.
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The specs for scopes are usually for something like +-1% to +-3% for the amplitude accuracy. So for the absolute scale the scope is rather poor.
One can however use the scope to check the frequency response to a certain degree. A DSO should have a resonable flat response between 1 kHz and 1 MHz.
Even there one has to be somewhat careful as there are compensated resistive / capacitive divders that can lead to some change in the amplitude when going from the resistive to capacitive dominated band.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the spec you're referring to is DC Accuracy specifically, not amplitude accuracy. I'm measuring AC voltage with AC coupling.
In any case, 3% isn't terrible in the mV range. The datasheet for the LCR I'm measuring states an accuracy of 10% for test signal level. I believe that makes the scope worthy in this use case. 😉
More importantly, I'm a "trust but verify" kinda guy. If the measurements are dead on, verifiable, and repeatable...
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In any case, 3% isn't terrible in the mV range. The datasheet for the LCR I'm measuring states an accuracy of 10% for test signal level. I believe that makes the scope worthy in this use case. 😉
A few had answered your original question:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5304295/#msg5304295 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5304295/#msg5304295)
Now 3% is not so bad...
But it doesn't change the fact that a scope measures "less accurately" than a 5.5 digit meter.
We had a colleague at work who measured a coil and swapped it with the LCR meters available in the house, whether calibrated or not, until the result met his expectations. ;)
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Now 3% is not so bad...
But it doesn't change the fact that a scope measures "less accurately" than a 5.5 digit meter.
Of course a DMM is expected be more accurate. But when we're talking about an acceptable margin of +-10%, 3% is plenty accurate enough (despite it being unclear of that's the correct number).
The claimed 0.2% accuracy of the DMM is nice, but not essential in this case. Using the AWG as a ref and seeing them agree is certainly helpful.
We had a colleague at work who measured a coil and swapped it with the LCR meters available in the house, whether calibrated or not, until the result met his expectations. ;)
🤣 Next thing you know they'll be p-hacking data for marketing purposes.
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I'd certainly trust the meters over scope in this case.
The scope has an 8bit ADC.
With 8 vertical divisions on the screen and 500mV per division (as in the screenshot with the 200mV RMS signal) the full scale input to the ADC will be 4V (overrange not accounted for).
At 4V full scale, each "count" out of the converter "is worth" 15.625mV. So ~16mV is the resolution at that vertical scale.
Displaying a 600mV p-p signal on a 4000mV p-p screen effectively turns your 8bit ADC into a 5bit (and change) ADC.
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Well, I was in 10bit mode, so it was probably 6bits. 😉😉
Anyway, here it is also being accurate in 10 and 20mV/div.
Using SDG2122X as a ref.
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Using a SDG2042 at 1KHz (Edit:10KHz), {100KHz} Sine, [10KHz Triangle], 1Vrms setting, we just did a quick sanity check with these, all in Vrms (SD):
SDS2000X+ in 10 bit mode 1.007 (1.007) {1.009) [1.004]
DHO814 1.004 (1.009) {1.005} [1.007]
SDM3065X 3Hz filter and average 0.999047 (0.999591) {1.002099} [0.999194]
KS34465 #1 3Hz filter and average 0.9999419 (1.0005105) {1.0008633} [1.0001987]
KS34465 #2 0.9999388 (1.0005261) {1.0005467} [1.0001601]
DMM6500 3Hz filter and average 0.9999689 (1.000422) {0.9996228} [1.000037]
AG34401A 3Hz filter 1.00001 (1.00057) {0.998214} [1.000133]
These DSOs are somewhat respectable for lower frequency AC RMS measurements, agree well with various DMMs, and of course should well outperform any DMM at higher frequencies.
The two KS and the DMM6500 utilize digital sampling techniques, while the SDM3065A and AG34401A utilize old school analog (AD636 maybe) techniques.
Would be an interesting involved test to see how well these old school techniques behave relative to the newer sampling techniques wrt to rms readings at various frequencies, amplitudes and crest factors.
Best,
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Interesting, I'll go along with that. ;)
(SDG2122X, 1khz, 1Vrms,Hi-Z)
SDM3065X : 1.00305 Vrms
Brymen BM859s : 1.0041 Vrms
SDS2504X HD DVM : 1.006 Vrms
SDS2504X HD : 1.00658Vrms
Oh yes,
The day before yesterday a used SDM3065X-SC slipped through my fingers, the seller only wanted €600 for it, saw it too late.... :P
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Nice, looks like a lot of trustworthy numbers to me. 😉
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And in reality we don't know anything, that's metrology. ;)
The generator as an AC source to check...I didn't realize that... 8)
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Yes, yet another reason I'm glad you convinced me not too sell it. 😉
And thanks to @J-R for the suggestion of using it as an AC ref.
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Guess we can infer that the SDG2042X provides a reasonably stable output in these ranges, that the SDM3065
AX
agrees well with the other DMMs, and that the different techniques to extract an RMS readings agree well.
Edit: we added some more readings above.
Best,
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Can I play too? The ones that were within arms reach:
(SDG2042X (SDG2122X), 1khz, 1Vrms, Hi-Z)
34401A 1.002113 Vrms
SDM3065X 1.001751 Vrms
SDS1204X-E 1.01 Vrms (not the most useful resolution on this one)
Fluke 28 II 1.0034 Vrms
UT139C 0.998 Vrms
ZT-702S (M) 1.000 Vrms
ZT-702S (O) 1.00 Vrms
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How about rising frequency to, say, 10kHz and 100kHz?)
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How about rising frequency to, say, 10kHz and 100kHz?)
See # 1676 above, edited with Sine at 1, 10, 100KHz and Triangle at 10KHz.
Best,
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Anyone have their SDM3065X open to help identify some fried parts ?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/siglent-sdm3065x-repair/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/siglent-sdm3065x-repair/)
TIA
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Hello! Can anyone help with the question. I want to buy a RS-PRO RSDM-3055 second hand multimeter, but it doesn’t have documentation and software. I asked the RS-PRO company to download the software EasyDMM, but they refused without invoice number. Is the software from Silent SDM3055 compatible with RS-PRO RSDM-3055 and is it possible to update the firmware there or re-flash firmware fully to Siglent?
Thank you.
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Hello! Can anyone help with the question. I want to buy a RS-PRO RSDM-3055 second hand multimeter, but it doesn’t have documentation and software. I asked the RS-PRO company to download the software EasyDMM, but they refused without invoice number. Is the software from Silent SDM3055 compatible with RS-PRO RSDM-3055 and is it possible to update the firmware there or re-flash firmware fully to Siglent?
Thank you.
Work through the list of downloads here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/?ProId=26
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Posted this in another thread but was pointed here.
I'm having an issue with my SDM3065X-SC, not sur if anyone's run into this before. Did a bit of looking and couldn't find an obvious answer.
I have my meter connected to PC via USB, and I'm trying to use EasyDMM to set up a scan, I have 5 thermocouples and 2 voltages I want to monitor. I can set up all the scan parameters with no issue, but when I connect to the meter to push the scan config and actually scan, the meter just locks up and I get an error in EasyDMM saying Failed to Query. Setting up the scan directly on the meter works fine and it scans no problem.
Does anyone know what's going on? I have the latest firmware & software revs. I've read the manuals and am following the instructions therein.
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Does anyone know what's going on? I have the latest firmware & software revs. I've read the manuals and am following the instructions therein.
Since it sounds like you have all the device and software configs correct, the error is likely due to a comm issue. Possibly the ethernet cable, or firewall settings in your computer or router. For example, if the device and/or software expect 2-way communication, but maybe only one direction is working, that could cause an issue.
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good quality cables too
lan example
i have Siglent stuff in automated project, if the cable are poorly made, i have failed communications, and we don't run them at maximum output
tried for fun some "flat" lan cables and they all fail loll
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Absolutely, good cables are a must. I only use over spec'd shielded cables.
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I'm currently connected via the USB that came in the box. Also, using the standard "Measure" feature instead of "Scan" works with no issues in EasyDMM. The trouble seems only connected to the scan function.
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I'm currently connected via the USB that came in the box. Also, using the standard "Measure" feature instead of "Scan" works with no issues in EasyDMM. The trouble seems only connected to the scan function.
Could be the USB port. USB2 vs USB3 some devices are pickier about using them. However, cables that come with stuff I usually throw in the trash. 🤷
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A few weeks ago I purchased a Siglent SDM3055.
The device has firmware version 1.02.01.28 installed.
This version cannot yet be downloaded from www.siglenteu.com (http://www.siglenteu.com).
Does anyone know what has changed compared to version 1.01.01.27R2?
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I think that you have probably benefited from having an upcoming update
that will probably only be officially rolled out later.
But maybe it's a version written for a new hardware version.
I see that this one has V 03-00-00-13-00
I have here from V 02-00-00-11-00
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I have an SDM3055 with the HW version 03-00-00-13-00 bought over a year, and the SW version is the 1.01.01.27R2 (and I might have updated it when the SDM arrived)
On the other hand I have an SDM3045X, 6 months old, HW version 03-00-00-05-00 that came with the SW version 5.02.01.09R2 that I never hacked because of that 02 in the SW version.
I don't know what's the difference between versions 01 and 02 in the software, but the 02 ones are not available for download, only being deployed with recent SDMs
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Soooo I might have bought an SDM3065X.
SW 3.02.01.12R1
HW 02-02-00-05-00
This toy is a little different than the "lesser" models... So I RTFM. But it's still odd. It looks like the manual incorrect with DCV. This is what the manual (E02B) shows:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2102543;image)
But this is what my DMM shows for DCV:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2102549;image)
Doesn't matter what Aperture is set to, the average is 1.4mV with nothing connected (either no probes, or with probes not touching anything). I understand that there's Rel, or manual calibration where I can probably zero that out, but should I really need to?
ETA: Auto Zero doesn't appear to do anything.
With a voltage source it does appear quite stable.
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Doesn't matter what Aperture is set to, the average is 1.4mV with nothing connected (either no probes, or with probes not touching anything). I understand that there's Rel, or manual calibration where I can probably zero that out, but should I really need to?
Floating 10G Ohm inputs......
Open inputs could indicate anything, short them. :P
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Doesn't matter what Aperture is set to, the average is 1.4mV with nothing connected (either no probes, or with probes not touching anything). I understand that there's Rel, or manual calibration where I can probably zero that out, but should I really need to?
Floating 10G Ohm inputs......
Open inputs could indicate anything, short them. :P
Shorted it seems normal ~7µV. The 3055 is ~6µV shorted, not a big deal. My question is if I should be concerned about the open value or not. Is that a sign of anything I should be concerned about? I have 3 SDM models, and only the 3065 does that open.
OTOH stability is excellent. Here's a comparison:
3065X:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2102639;image)
3055:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2102645;image)
I'm guessing this might be another case of me needing to let the stupid thing run for a while. 🤷
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With the high input impedance it is absolutely normal that the meter is not reading zero with open inputs. It is more like a good sign that the reading is still within range. 1.4 mV is actually more like suspicious small: either a low input impedance or a lucky very low bias.
It would be an issue if the 1.4 mV are measured in the 10 M input impedance mode. This would be 140 pA of input current and this is on the high side.
One could do a simple test of the input resistance and input bias current with a capacitor (e.g. 10 nF low leakage type like PS or PP).
The capacitor is initially charges (e.g. +20 or -20 V for 2 separate runs) and the drift / decay of the voltage recorded in manual 20 V range. The rage of the voltage change gives the input current as I = C*dU/dt. Often one would get something like a shifted exponential decay, like the classical RC discharge and from the time constant can extimate the input impedance.
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SDM3065X open input 10M, AUTO, NO REL.
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@KungFuJosh
I recommend the following video by Dave. Here, the phenomenon is explained in detail, and some of your questions are addressed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKb7xIsPjVM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKb7xIsPjVM)
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@KungFuJosh
I recommend the following video by Dave. Here, the phenomenon is explained in detail, and some of your questions are addressed.
Thanks! That was a helpful video. Inserting the leads and twisting them is certainly effective.
Leads inserted but not twisted:
(https://eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2103869;image)
Leads inserted & twisted:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2103875;image)
SDM3065X open input 10M, AUTO, NO REL.
I guess maybe I have a little more stray AC than you do? It's a known issue here, that's why I always have filtering on the other DMMs. It's just odd to me how it works in this model. PLC < 1 shows around 4mV, but PLC ≥ 1 shows 1.4mV.
Thanks,
Josh
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With the high input impedance it is absolutely normal that the meter is not reading zero with open inputs. It is more like a good sign that the reading is still within range. 1.4 mV is actually more like suspicious small: either a low input impedance or a lucky very low bias.
It would be an issue if the 1.4 mV are measured in the 10 M input impedance mode. This would be 140 pA of input current and this is on the high side.
It is 10M input. It's also 3 times higher than skander36's example at 10M input. Which of us should be more concerned? 10G input imp just shows OVERLOAD on the screen.
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10G input imp just shows OVERLOAD on the screen.
This is normal.
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10G input imp just shows OVERLOAD on the screen.
This is normal.
Yeah, I was just pointing that out since he asked if it was 10M input imp.
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As good as my other bench DMMs are, I'm tempted to sell them both and buy a second SDM3065X. I reeeally like the stability. Am I crazy?
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Getting an a reading of 1.4 mV with the 10 M input would suggest an input bias of 140 pA. That is nearly 3 x higher than the specs, that call for < 50 pA for the bias (called offset). The test should be done at not too high a tempererature (e.g. max ~ 75 F) and with not high humidity (e.g. RH < 70% maybe) and the meter well warmed up ( e.g. > 1 hour on). High temperature or high humidity could increase the input bias. I am not so sure of the specs are for the AZ on or off mode and if this makes a difference. I don't kown what the AZ setting means for this type of DMM.
It could make sense to record the reading with different conditions, like 1 PLC, 10 PLC, maybe 100 PLC and both AZ on and off.
A 2.5 V reading is a rather odd test point for stability. The usual stable reference are 10 V or 7 V and maybe 1.018 V. 2.5 V is also more on the low end of the 20 V range. Chances are the 2.5 V ref for the test can be the limiting factor more than the DMM.
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As good as my other bench DMMs are, I'm tempted to sell them both and buy a second SDM3065X. I reeeally like the stability. Am I crazy?
Then I'm crazy too. ;)
I've twice had the opportunity to buy a used SDM3065X that was still in mint condition and twice I hesitated too long.
That won't happen to me a third time. 8)
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Getting an a reading of 1.4 mV with the 10 M input would suggest an input bias of 140 pA. That is nearly 3 x higher than the specs, that call for < 50 pA for the bias (called offset). The test should be done at not too high a tempererature (e.g. max ~ 75 F) and with not high humidity (e.g. RH < 70% maybe) and the meter well warmed up ( e.g. > 1 hour on). High temperature or high humidity could increase the input bias. I am not so sure of the specs are for the AZ on or off mode and if this makes a difference. I don't kown what the AZ setting means for this type of DMM.
It could make sense to record the reading with different conditions, like 1 PLC, 10 PLC, maybe 100 PLC and both AZ on and off.
The AZ setting seems to do nothing. 🤷 My room conditions are good for your test, but I'm not sure what you're asking me to do. I assume a WIMA MPK4 10nF cap is fine? Beyond that, I'm also assuming you want me to do more than connect it directly to the DMM in DCV mode?
I also asked a question, I don't know if you saw it. Skander36's post above shows that my voltage reading with no leads attached is about 3 times higher than his. Should he be testing this too?
A 2.5 V reading is a rather odd test point for stability. The usual stable reference are 10 V or 7 V and maybe 1.018 V. 2.5 V is also more on the low end of the 20 V range. Chances are the 2.5 V ref for the test can be the limiting factor more than the DMM.
I was lazy with the ref, switching the jumper is a lot of work. 😉 The point was to compare stability at a specific range between my 3 bench DMMs, which it did. But here's a 10V check after no warmup time. Still nice:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2104400;image)
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The simple input bias test is with just the 10 M resistance from the divider. This needs not external capacitor.
The reported 1.4 mV (converts to 140 pA) would be a problem - possibly a reason to return the meter as out of spec.
To really test in the high Z mode one could use an external 10 M resistor. To also test at different voltages one could use the 10 nF MKP4 (should be OK). The test needs a way to record the changing voltage over some time. For just a points the internal memory may be good enough (e.g. 2 readings 10 seconds appart give 1 mV of change per 1 pA of input current). One can charge the capacitors to different starting points as needed: e.g. some +20 V , -20 V and maybe 0 V. It may need a few seconds to maybe a minute to stabilize the DA part. The drift rate than gives the bias current at the choosen voltage. The difference between different voltages gives the input impedance (actually the conductance, but that is what should matter). The cables to connect the capacitors should also be low leakage or handled with care (hold on insulators). The insulation resistance of bad cables may be comparable to a good meters input impedance.
If the AZ mode and different PLC rate do not change things for the test with the resistor (or 10 M mode) one could get away with just one case for the test with the capacitor.
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I also asked a question, I don't know if you saw it. Skander36's post above shows that my voltage reading with no leads attached is about 3 times higher than his. Should he be testing this too?
I briefly switched on my SDM3065X, it also shows something between 1.1 and 1.3mV DC with open inputs.
I don't feel this is anything to be concerned about.
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I also asked a question, I don't know if you saw it. Skander36's post above shows that my voltage reading with no leads attached is about 3 times higher than his. Should he be testing this too?
I briefly switched on my SDM3065X, it also shows something between 1.1 and 1.3mV DC with open inputs.
I don't feel this is anything to be concerned about.
No no, it's definitely messed up. You should trade for my two 5.5 digit DMMs. 😉
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I’ve once checked the input current with regard to the input voltage for several bench DMM. I thought I would show the results here, just to give you an idea what to expect from an average bench DMM in practice.
Notice that most manufacturers do not even specify input current, only input resistance, which is just a limit value that can (and should) be exceeded by far. Furthermore, the input of a DMM is not resistive anyway, but can have a rather non-linear voltage-current characteristic.
As a consequence, I would never rely on the input characteristic of a modern DMM for any critical task, just because even the best will still have a substantial input current that is not negligible for high precision measurements.
Caution: it should be kept in mind that the input impedance / input current of a DMM depends on the environment, like ambient temperature and relative humidity and it is subject to component tolerances. Furthermore, all of these instruments (except Picotest M3500A and Rigol DM3068) have been acquired from the 2nd hand market and their history is largely unknown. For the given reasons, the following test results can only be a guideline, only valid for that particular unit under normal laboratory conditions.
Here come the test results in alphabetical order:
1. Fluke 8842A
This venerable 5.5-digit instrument is famous for its exceptional high long-term stability, which puts many 6.5-digit meters to shame. Yet at higher sensitivities the Fluke 8842A is very noisy and requires heavy filtering, which makes especially the 20 mV range very slow – and short-term stability aka noise is still nothing to write home about.
The Fuke 8842A provides high input impedance up to 20 V; it draws a constant input current of 50 pA from 1 - 19.9 volts. The 8840A is largely identical in this regard.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2105336;image)
Fluke_8842A_input
2. Keithley 2001
This 7.5-digit instrument certainly is not an “average” bench DMM. It is easily one of the best and combines excellent long-term stability with low noise. The Keithley 2001 provides high input impedance up to 22V and its input current is almost linear rising from 12 to 38 pA over the range of 0 – 22 volts. Its input characteristic can be approximated with 909 GΩ input impedance and 12 pA input bias current.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2105342;image)
Keithley_2001_input
3. Keithley 2015 THD
This 6.5-digit instrument is certainly a good average lab tool. It provides high input impedance up to 12V and its input current is almost linear rising from 450 pA to 890 pA over the range of 0 – 11 volts. The input impedance remains high up to 12 volts, yet there is a steep increase of the input current beyond 11 V. The input characteristic of the Keithley 2015 THD can be approximated with 24 GΩ input impedance and 447 pA input bias current.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2105348;image)
Keithley_2015THD_input
4. Picotest M3500A
This 6.5-digit instrument is the same as the Keithley 2100 and certainly needs not hide behind a Keithley 2000/2015. The Picotest M3500A provides high input impedance up to 12V and its input current is rather non-linear, rising from 134 pA to 370 pA over the range of 0 – 11 volts. The input impedance remains high up to 12 volts, yet there is a steep increase of the input current beyond 11 V. The input characteristic of the Picotest M3500A can be approximated with 56 GΩ input impedance and 134 pA input bias current.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2105354;image)
Picotest_M3500A_input
5. Rigol DM3068
This 6.5-digit instrument is the one I don’t have a lot of experience with. It provides high input impedance up to 22V and its negative(!) input current is pretty linear, decreasing from -115 pA to -87 pA over the range of 0 – 22 volts. The input characteristic of the Rigol DM3068 can be approximated with 793 GΩ input impedance and -115 pA input bias current.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2105360;image)
Rigol_DM3068_input
6. Solartron/Schlumberger 7150plus
This 6.5-digit instrument is actually only 5.5 digits where one additional digit is obtained by averaging. This is a very old design and it certainly cannot compete with the more modern DMMs. The Schlumberger 7150plus provides high input impedance up to 2V and its negative input current is all over the place, yet very low and never exceeds -10 pA over the range of 0 – 2 volts.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2105366;image)
Schlumberger_7150plus_input
If you miss the Siglent SDS3065X here – well, I just don’t have one. Evaluating their oscilloscopes and waveform generators is sufficient to keep me from getting bored 😉
As can be seen, only the very old Schlumberger 7150plus has a really low input current (and this is not an isolated case, since I have four of them and they all behave similar). Yet this instrument is not very useful for precision tasks, as it lacks stability (both long- and short-term) and high input impedance up to only 2 volts isn’t overly useful either.
Because of all this, I’ve once built an electrometer amplifier (with <1 pA input current, voltage gain of 1 and <1 ppm/°C stability) that I used for sensitive measurements, whenever accuracy would have been ruined by the input current of a DMM.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2105372;image)
DCA_R02_Inside_Front_01
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I played with EasyDMM some more, connected to the SDM3065X. It's nicer than I thought, but a bit clunky. They could make this really nice with a little more development.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2106290;image)
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I’ve once checked the input current with regard to the input voltage for several bench DMM. I thought I would show the results here, just to give you an idea what to expect from an average bench DMM in practice.
Thanks for sharing these measurements!
As a consequence, I would never rely on the input characteristic of a modern DMM for any critical task, just because even the best will still have a substantial input current that is not negligible for high precision measurements.
I'd expect a good bench DMM to have a reasonably low bias current in the order of 100 pA or less. Though it certainly doesn't hurt to verify. Particularly if the bias current is very critical, like for high source impedance (like a high-impedance voltage divider). Fluke has a document how to account for bias current when using DMMs with a Fluke 752A voltage divider which is discussed here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/null-meters-still-in-production-how-to-replace-a-keithley-155-null-meter/).
2. Keithley 2001
This 7.5-digit instrument certainly is not an “average” bench DMM. It is easily one of the best and combines excellent long-term stability with low noise.
I find its noise performance disappointing. It may well be the highest noise 7.5 digit DMM from a reputable brand. Even the 6.5 digit Keithley 2000 has lower noise than the 2001 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/do-i-have-exceptional-keithley-2000-or-poor-keithley-2001/). I don't think the stability is particularly impressive for a 7.5 digit meter using an LM399 as reference, while most competitors (contemporary Datron and Solartron, modern Keysight and Keithley) used better references. The K2001's 1 year DCV accuracy is barely better than the Fluke 8842A. I think it's a nice and versatile bench meter (with features like measuring current in-circuit), though.
3. Keithley 2015 THD
This 6.5-digit instrument is certainly a good average lab tool. It provides high input impedance up to 12V and its input current is almost linear rising from 450 pA to 890 pA over the range of 0 – 11 volts. The input impedance remains high up to 12 volts, yet there is a steep increase of the input current beyond 11 V. The input characteristic of the Keithley 2015 THD can be approximated with 24 GΩ input impedance and 447 pA input bias current.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2105348;image)
Keithley_2015THD_input
This is about an order of magnitude higher than I'd expect. See for example this discussion about the Keithley 2000 bias current (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/keithley-2000-input-bias-current-(306-2-306-4-failures)/). The DMM part of the Keithley 2000 and 2015 should be identical.
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If you miss the Siglent SDS3065X here – well, I just don’t have one. Evaluating their oscilloscopes and waveform generators is sufficient to keep me from getting bored 😉
Hoping you get the opportunity to work on SDM4065A development. ;)
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I briefly switched on my SDM3065X, it also shows something between 1.1 and 1.3mV DC with open inputs.
I don't feel this is anything to be concerned about.
Today at work, with a 5.5 digit Keysight 34450A:
2 mVdc with open inputs.
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Hoping you get the opportunity to work on SDM4065A development. ;)
I would not be sad if my second DMM was the 4065A instead of the 3065X. Any idea how long until they release them?
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Hallo friens of electronics
Today I got my new Siglent SDM3055. It works very well and fits well with my Siglent SPD3303x-E power supply. To check the SDM3055 I purchased an AD584-M voltage reference. The reference chip is an AD584 KH. This has an accuracy of 15 ppm/°C and 0.005%V. In the Siglent packaging was a current calibration document from March 2024 :-+ I let the SDM3055 and AD584 warm up for 1/2 hour and then took voltage measurements.
Measuring station
(https://i.ibb.co/9ZsQ0Fg/20240429-151245.jpg)
Certificate of Calibration
(https://i.ibb.co/pwFWbPr/20240429-151314.jpg)
FLUKE 5522A: https://eu.flukecal.com/products/electrical-calibration/electrical-calibrators/5522a-multi-product-calibrator?quicktabs_product_details=2
I compared the SDM3055 to my UNI-T UT181A with 60,000 counts. These are the results:
SDM3055 (Filter off)
2.5V ==> 2.4995V
5.0V ==> 5.0014V
7.5V ==> 7.4987V
10.0V ==> 10.0001V
UNI-T UT181A
2.5V ==> 2.5001V
5.0V ==> 5.0025V
7.5V ==> 7.500V
10.0V ==> 10.000V
What is Filter ON/OFF function ? If the filter is switched on, the DC measurement results are a little higher!
My Siglent SDM3055 Systeminfo
(https://i.ibb.co/jzrhGx3/20240429-163330.jpg)
My Evaluation:
Positive
Small case
Large colored display
Negative
Loud case fan (I will convert it after the warranty period)
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Has anyone replaced the loud case fan in the SDM3350 or installed a temperature control ?
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I did it. The fan on my new Siglent SDM3055 is now quiet. I soldered a 150 ohm resistor between the fan and the positive terminal connection. The fan now runs very quietly. The voltage at the fan is now 7.1 volts. Before it was 12 volts. I will now make new long-term measurements with the AD584 reference voltage source. Later I compare the old values before I changed the fan with the new values.
SDM3055 Fan mod
(https://i.ibb.co/9s10xyR/20240430-001011.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/s5LscnH/20240430-000959.jpg)
The old fan is 60x60mm and 12 volts. Later I will install a new 60x60mm fan from Noctua. This is very quiet.
(https://i.ibb.co/kS7M0Cq/Noctua.png)
Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX Link: https://noctua.at/de/products/fan/nf-a6x25-flx
Greetings from germany. Rolf
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One issue that one might be concerned with is with the lower fan speed (or another fan) this will change the instrument internal temperature and distribution. For something like a DSO this probably isn't a concern, but with a precision instrument such as a high resolution DMM, this internal temperature and distribution change may require a complete recalibration.
Also not sure an AD584 of any pedigree, much less with unknown past, is reliable/stable enough to characterize this level of DMM performance.
With these thoughts considered might be a good idea to wait and listen to folks highly knowledge in this area, Dr Frank comes to mind!!
Best,
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We had that fan discussion about 3 years ago. I did the same then with an Sonon Maglev and a 300 Ohms resistor, leaving about 7V for the fan.
Got an 3055 in December. Fan is a Delta Electronics AFB0612LC, blowing outwards.
As the press cut pattern in the outer case inhibits the air flow, the noise, resonated by the case, is by far the loudest sound in the room.
I put in a Sunon Maglev HA60151V4-1000U-A99, which is somewhat quieter than the Delta from the start.
Having added a 300 ohms resistor the noise is barely audible now, but you can still feel some air flow 10 cm from the case, so the air exchange rate within the case should be ok.
There had been a discussion following that old post bringing up a lot of arguments for and against.
I can just add after 3 years: My 3055 is still alive. In summer my cave is getting warm at about 28°C.
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I would be more concern about ideal temperature inside the SDM, and calibration affected by that, if the fan was temperature controlled.
Since it's not, the temperature inside the SDM will always be different in Norway and in Brasil, not to mention along seasons, that can have an high temperature and humidity differential depending on location.
The 3045 has no fan, so during operation there will be areas inside the meter with differences in temperature, wile 3055 and 3056 with the fan blowing will even those temperatures inside the case. If the fan blows faster or slower, I assume that it would be important if some component could produce a great amount of heat, compared to the rest of the board/components, and since the SDM it's not a power device, like an electronic load or power supply, I don't see that much temperature difference happening.
So, my interpretation is, "the fan blows". I'm no expert by all means, but this is just common sense to me.
Yes, inside a proper lab the room temperature would be more stable and regular, but I assume we are considering here the amateur/hobby lab/home.
Just my 2 cents
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I measured all night with the voltage reference of 2.5V and barely made any difference between the two meters (UNI-T UT181A & Siglen SDM3055). The measured values always fluctuate around 100uV. I measure the airflow temperature on the case fan. When switching on the SDM3055 the temperature was 23.8°C and after 2 hours the temperature was 25.8°C. The room temperature goes from 22.2°C to 22.7°C. The measurements values have not changed.
Digital temperature sensor at the fan output
(https://i.ibb.co/hZY5hjY/20240430-114236.jpg)
Short term measurements
(https://i.ibb.co/VtzgjMG/Screenshot-2024-04-30-121931.png)
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4 hours long time measurement with Fan and Fan mod
Fan (no mod): 4 hours airflow temperature 25.1°C.
(https://i.ibb.co/NydC8H7/Mess-Fan-air.png)
Fan (mod): 4hours airflow temperature 26.3°C.
(https://i.ibb.co/XtQG3jh/Mess-Fan-leise.png)
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Hello.
The mere exchanging for a better fan alone was not enough for me.
My solution to the original fan that was too loud continued.
My focus was on the temperatures evenly whether summer or winter to keep value on the same value, which made a regulation necessary.
A little insight I meant
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm-and-sdg-series-maximum-silent/msg2979466/#msg2979466 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm-and-sdg-series-maximum-silent/msg2979466/#msg2979466)
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Hallo Klaus
Nice Fan project :-+ Have you compared the DC measurements below < 2V before and after your fan mod. I was also thinking about a temperature-controlled fan. But I don't know if controlling the fan speed is better or worse for accurate measurements :-//. I noticed a small difference in my long-term measurements. But I couldn't take any measurements in the uV range because the smallest reference voltage source was 2.5V.
Another question about your fan mod. Does the fan blow air out of the case or inwards ?
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Back then, as it is with a new toy, I compared a lot, but I couldn't see any difference.
The fan presses outwards in the original.
Now you can think about whether Siglent has not worried at all, simply because so many do it or they saw themselves forced to do this,
Because with the suction side directly on a perforated plate, such a fan makes enormous flow noises.
You probably took the easier way ...
The better solution is always to be bubbled into the device, not to suck out of the device.
Sucking generates less mixture in the device because the flow through the existing buttonholes takes place and no direct flow of hotspots in the device allows.
In addition, the negative pressure and the possibility of filtering are not given. Dust is not an advantage in one device.
When the air is blown in, there are much better opportunities, but it requires a little more effort.
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I'm happy with my simple conversion. But I won't install a fan control. I will also glue heat sinks to the two processors in the SDM3055. I didn't notice a big difference in my measurements either. When measuring with a reference voltage source (AD584KH) I only measured a +100uV difference after 4 hours. This is the maximum resolution of the SDM3055 in the measuring range of 20 volts.
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You can use a 1.5V battery as a reference voltage source for a few hours of measurement time ? The battery idle voltage is constant and is not charged by the measuring device. Since I don't have a 1V or 2V reference voltage source, I thought of a 1.5V battery to test the measuring range at 2V.
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Wouldn't recommend using a 1.5V cell as any sort of voltage reference, even short term. These have significant voltage TC, and likely highly sensitive to other environmental effects.
Also, seriously consider letting your new DMM operate for a significant time to allow component drift to stabilize before any recalibration attempts. We've accumulated enough time over a couple years (not continuous) to allow our SDM3065X to stabilize. Siglent utilized a standard unselected and aged unaged LM399 as the internal reference to keep cost down (Keysight and Keithley use selected aged references in their KS34465A and DMM6500 respectively). Not sure what reference Siglent utilizes in the SDM3055X, but likely not as good for stability short and long term as the LM399, so might be a good idea to let the 3055 stabilize over time.
Best,
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Speaking of aging...
I now thought I would switch on my SDM3065X and leave it switched on.
Question: How long...
One week, two, one month?
And: With open or shorted inputs ?
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Don't think input condition matters much. Likely the longer the better up to a point, few months seems reasonable tho.
Best,
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I think I lucked out with my SDM3065X. Stability was awesome pretty quickly.
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Likely the longer the better up to a point, few months seems reasonable tho.
A few months..... :scared:
I would have thought one month would be a very long time. :D
Because in addition to the “positive” effect of the (apparently necessary) ageing of the reference, you have the side effect that all other components also age.
I don't know whether the positive effects outweigh the negative ones, such as the shortened life of the electrolytic capacitors.
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Has anybody torn these down to see what type of electrolytics these use? I assume/hope they went with longer life caps anyway.
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Things like a LM399 reference show the initial fast settling over the first 500 hours or so. That would be some 3 weeks to get that part reasonably stable. Other parts may take longer as they usually don't run at a similar high temperature. The humidity effect is anyway more like a hysteresis effect - turn the meter off for a few weeks and the humidity will get back in. Here settling would only be there if the meter is really kept on 24/7 or close to that. I don't thinks the electrolytic capacitors would be a big issue here. They should not run very hot or see high ripple current. Even if they go bad: as long as they are not leaking a replacement would relatively easy.
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Wouldn't worry about electrolytics today, they are pretty reliable.
Anyone have a modern quality electrolytic fail recently in a well designed instrument? We can't recall anything!
Recall that KS ages the select LM399 ~1000hrs, anyone know for sure?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/lm399-drift-tendency-with-age-(which-direction)/msg1213116/#msg1213116 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/lm399-drift-tendency-with-age-(which-direction)/msg1213116/#msg1213116)
See Dr Franks post #3 in link above, and #1 an #2.
Best,
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I think I lucked out with my SDM3065X. Stability was awesome pretty quickly.
I have an SDM3055 with modified fan (150 ohm resistance). The values after warming up for 1/2 hour also look good.
The measurement was taken after half an hour of warm-up time and voltage reference chip AD584KH.
(https://i.ibb.co/hgn2Gtt/Mess-10-0000-V-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/TMgKhpZ/Mess-10-0000-V-2.jpg)
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Things like a LM399 reference show the initial fast settling over the first 500 hours or so. That would be some 3 weeks to get that part reasonably stable. Other parts may take longer as they usually don't run at a similar high temperature. The humidity effect is anyway more like a hysteresis effect - turn the meter off for a few weeks and the humidity will get back in. Here settling would only be there if the meter is really kept on 24/7 or close to that. I don't thinks the electrolytic capacitors would be a big issue here. They should not run very hot or see high ripple current. Even if they go bad: as long as they are not leaking a replacement would relatively easy.
The SDM3055 has a MAX6325 CSA as a reference chip. Link: https://www.analog.com/media/cn/technical-documentation/data-sheets/1700.pdf (https://www.analog.com/media/cn/technical-documentation/data-sheets/1700.pdf)
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@rolfdegen
The problem with using a 1.5v alkaline cell (or even a cr2032 with a fixed potential divider using M ohm resistors) is their own tempco. I know this because these were two of the first things I'd tried when checking the excellent tempco specification of the SDM3065 I'd purchased way back in October 2021 after allowing it to clock up a couple of thousand hours to age its internal reference.
In the end, I purchased a cheap AD584LH, fully aware that it too had a lousy (by voltnut standards) tempco. This can be stable enough given a constant room temperature. I never did get around to placing it in another constant temperature room whilst using my hobby room as a "variable temperature environmental test chamber" :phew: so this testing regime was rather flawed.
However, the one thing I did discover was that this volt reference's tempco virtually cancelled the tempco of the cheap Owon XDM1041 I'd purchased a few months later as a convenient alternative to a pair of cheap (but surprisingly good) 9999 counts Mestek DM91A hand held DMMs.
The Owon bench DMM offered an improvement over the hand helds' tempco performance, effectively sitting between that of the hand helds and the SDM3065. Not a bad trade off considering its order of magnitude reduction in power consumption over that of the SDM3065's 13W (and, incidentally, that of an SDL1020X-E). As a consequence, I've had it powered up continuously over the past couple of years, monitoring the EFC voltage of my MK II (G3RUH inspired design) GPSDO.
With all that being said. I started using the 4.97844v, from a well aged 7805 fixed to the heat spreader inside my temperature stabilised (to within +/- 5mK of a 36.05 deg C set point) LPRO 101 based RFS used solely to feed a 5K 10 turn calibration pot, as a long term temperature stabilised reference.
Checking my notes, I see I got readings of 4.98005 on 2022-03-27 followed by 4.97897v on 2022-09-16. To be honest, the 4.97844v reading was taken just now. However, ISTR my more recent, unrecorded, checks all showing a value of 4.978xx volts over the past 12 months or so suggesting a long term stability between my temperature stabilised 4.97844 voltage reference and the SDM3065 of just 0.01%. The only thing I can be reasonably sure of is that the SDM3065 more than meets its claimed tempco performance over its specified ambient temperature range of 18 to 28 deg C which was the sole reason in the first place for my purchasing it over its cheaper 5 1/2 digit cousin. I'd thought at that time that the extra digit was "overkill" for my perceived needs.
In hindsight, I was proved ever so wrong in this assumption when I discovered that I could now detect lamp volt variations in tens of micro-volts due to variations of ambient temperature altering the internal thermal gradients within my well insulated LPRO 101. If I had decided "to cheap out" on the SDM3055, I wouldn't have been able to detect this effect or, at best, be left guessing about this small deficiency in the efficacy of my temperature stabilisation measures.
As for the fixed speed cooling fan in the SDM3065, that, in view of its excellent tempco performance, seems an obvious measure to curtail the "FY6600 effect" (ie wild internal temperature excursions due to a virtual absence of any cooling airflow) and flatten any internal temperature gradients.
The innards are going to track some 2 or 3 degrees above ambient reducing demands on the internal temperature compensation requirements (as well as minimising the variation between a cold power up and a stabilised calibration reached within just 5 minutes or so).
[EDIT 2024-05-02] I just noticed at around 1pm when I transferred the meter connection to the Vref/calibrate pot wiper volt stereo jack socket that the Vref was still showing yesterday's 4.97844v readings. This was after the meter had been powered up for just over an hour (I normally monitor the lamp voltage via the lamp/Xtal stereo jack - it's less boring than monitoring the Vref).
Out of idle curiosity, I switched the meter off for about twenty minutes so I could check the cold to warmed up voltage reading drift. The initial reading was 4.97839v rapidly increasing to 4.97842v about half a minute later taking another 3 minutes to show 4.97843v / 4.97844v finally settling back on the original 4.97844v some 4 minutes after that.
This test merely confirmed my gut feeling that it only required a mercifully short 10 to 15 minutes of warm up time from cold power up to produce stable readings. Indeed, if the equivalent of 5.5 digit accuracy is all you initially require, then it easily exceeds this specification within half a minute of power up. :D
A quieter replacement fan is likely to might prove to have a lower CFM rating but you can compensate for this if you're willing to modify the case to remove the restriction of the colander of small holes on each side with a suitably fan sized hole saw and fitting wire finger guards. This measure will reduce turbulence noise created by the colander of ventilation holes, increasing flow rate enough to allow a dropper resistor to be added with little to no penalty on the original fan's cooling efficacy.
Obviously, this is a modification best left to the end of the three year warranty period (if you can hold out that long) so the best option whilst there's still some years of warranty cover at stake is simply replace the fan with a quieter, more efficient one. You can still opt to modify the case once the warranty has finally expired if so desired in order to maximise the benefit of your investment in the original replacement fan upgrade.
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The SDM3055 has a MAX6325 CSA as a reference chip. Link: https://www.analog.com/media/cn/technical-documentation/data-sheets/1700.pdf (https://www.analog.com/media/cn/technical-documentation/data-sheets/1700.pdf)
The MAX6325 has a long term drift of ~30ppm/1000Hr, whereas the LM399 has ~8ppm/1000Hr. This alone should be considered and allow the SDM3055 to "settle in" and stabilize in its' new home to help ensure repeatable measurements over time.
We've got 3 in-house DIY references based upon 2 LM399 and a LTZ1000 that have over 20KHrs we use to check for repeatable measurements. Also have a couple old 34401As (these have well seasoned LM399s) that likely have 50~100KHrs (don't know for sure) that are very repeatable over time.
These SDMs are fine instruments and need time to stabilize into their new environment. Check out the Metrology site for folks that are actually doing serious measurements with HP3458A and such and the extremes they go thru for those measurements. This isn't about speculation or hear say, these folks know what they are talking about and doing. You can learn a lot from those select few, I know we have :-+
Best,
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I first wanted to buy a Uni-T UT8805E but then decided on the better SDM3055. The Uni-T UT8805E has not so good voltage reference chip MAX6225AESA+ with TEMPCO of 5.0 (ppm/°C).
There is an interesting review about the Uni-T-UT8805E on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqm5FfSCQs8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqm5FfSCQs8)
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A quieter replacement fan is likely to have a lower CFM rating
Maybe. However, Noctua fans often have better CFM and better noise properties than the cheap fans they replace. It's easy enough to find the CFM ratings of the fans you're replacing if they're labeled.
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Hi,
I had also briefly toyed with the idea of replacing the fan.
But I've decided to put most of my devices in a rack, so it's hardly relevant any more or I'll have to rethink the issue of ventilation anyway.
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Make fan noise quieter :)
Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Pa8pUl018 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Pa8pUl018)
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A quieter replacement fan is likely to have a lower CFM rating
Maybe. However, Noctua fans often have better CFM and better noise properties than the cheap fans they replace. It's easy enough to find the CFM ratings of the fans you're replacing if they're labeled.
In hindsight, I have to agree with you on this point. :-[ Thanks for the "heads up". I've edited my post accordingly and added my observations on the stability and rapid warm up from cold power up of my own SDM3065 which I assume would be typical of most everyone else's SDM3065 bench DMMs.
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Fan comparison
Delta Fan from Siglent
(https://i.ibb.co/z6QQT1B/Delta-Fan.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/t48Wp3p/Siglent-Fan-Air-Pressure.png)
Quiet Noctua fan
(https://i.ibb.co/TwjhNh9/Noctua-Fan.png)
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In other words, rough match the airflow, and get 10dB quieter; ~41% noise reduction.
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Do folks with the SDS3065X see random "jumps" as shown here connected to a 10V reference (Vref10) which is also connected to our newer KS34465A as shown (same scales). The time span is 1hr, and vertical scale is 30uv total range, so roughly ~15uv "jump" or ~ 1.5ppm.
Know this is most likely from the LM399 SDS internal reference and we've seen this many times before but curious about what other folks "see" with their SDM3065X DMMs?
Best,
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The jumps of a LM399 ref. are usually on the order of 3-4 µV or 0.5 ppm. So 15 µV would be about 3 times to large for the LM399 typical jumps.
With 2 meters in parallel, there is the possibilty that one meter sees the disturband from AZ switching of the other meter. It may be worth checking if the problem also exists without the 2nd meter.
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As mentioned we've seen this often, and without anything connected to the SDM3065X except the reference and with other references, so it's definitely coming from the SDM3065X!! Don't see this behavior with any of our other seven total 6 1/2 digit DMMs, just the SDM3065X.
Agree, 1/2 ppm not too bad, 1.5 ppm is concerning and at some point may consider changing the LM399.
Hopefully some folks will report what they "see" with their SDM3065X DMMs.
Best,
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Could it be the VREF10 modul ? In the range of 70-75°F the voltage difference is approximately 15uV.
VREF10-001 Typical Temperature Graph
(https://i.ibb.co/P1Kt7Lj/Vref10.png)
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Could it be the VREF10 modul ? In the range of 70-75°F the voltage difference is approximately 15uV.
VREF10-001 Typical Temperature Graph
(https://i.ibb.co/P1Kt7Lj/Vref10.png)
No it's not the VREF10 Reference, if it was this would show up on both the SDM and KS34465A. Here's a plot with just the SDM showing another "jump", so also not the parallel connection of both meters. WE've also seen this with other References we have, 2 based upon LM399 and LTZ1000, all with over 2 years continuous aging.
Also, temperature in "The Labs" doesn't typically vary more than +-2F with set point at 77F and SDM shows a relative "quick 15uv jump" which could not be caused by a temperature change and it changes up and down. In fact it's jumped up and down ~15uV a couple times in the past 3 hours and the temperature is 77.5F and hasn't changed more than 0.5F.
Best,
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I just powered on my meter and a ref. Not sure my ref is good enough to bother, but I'll report back later with the results.
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The resolution looks rather limited. At what speed is the DMM running. The scaling is also not telling much just as the KS original. So it is a bit hard to judge on the noise and step size.
For the 4 lm399 refs I have measured and the reports found so far the popcorn noise jumps are pretty consistant. Much larger jumps could as well be from other parts then just the reference.
As a test one could have a longer time series with a stable resistor (e.g. 20 K) and see if there are comparable jumps somehow. This would test slightly different parts of the meter, eliminating the reference.
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As mentioned the vertical scale on both the SDS and KS are 30uv full scale, the horizontal scale on both is 1 hr, so we were seeing ~15uV "jumps" in both directions. Just like the dreaded "Popcorn" noise the level would jump up by ~15uv stay awhile then jump back down by the ~ same amount.
The resistor is a good idea, we have some precision Caddock's we'll try!!
Edit, maybe not such a good idea see post below, however may still prove useful info wrt to various sections of the DMM and which might be the major noise contributor.
Best,
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Popcorn may not be visible when measuring resistances, because the same voltage source is the reference voltage for the ADC and the reference voltage of the current source.
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Here's my SDM3065X set at 100PLC connected to an AD584 ref.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2161444;image)
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Popcorn may not be visible when measuring resistances, because the same voltage source is the reference voltage for the ADC and the reference voltage of the current source.
Good catch!!! Caught me when I wasn't thinking :P
Best,
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Here's my SDM3065X set at 100PLC connected to an AD584 ref.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2161444;image)
Thanks, if you can let it run for a day or so and see if you spot any of what we've shown.
Best,
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Popcorn may not be visible when measuring resistances, because the same voltage source is the reference voltage for the ADC and the reference voltage of the current source.
Good catch!!! Caught me when I wasn't thinking :P
Best,
The resistance test would not see popcorn noise from the reference, but it could still see popcorn noise from other parts of the meter. So if similar jumps are still there in the resistance mode, they are very likely not from the LM399. The reference is not not only possible source for popcorn noise.
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The resistance test would not see popcorn noise from the reference, but it could still see popcorn noise from other parts of the meter. So if similar jumps are still there in the resistance mode, they are very likely not from the LM399. The reference is not not only possible source for popcorn noise.
Just as Nanitamuscen indicated, and know that the Reference isn't the only potential source for popcorn but the most likely!!
So far our original assumption of the LM399 seems to be proving out, no apparent popcorn noise on the resistance measurement.
Best,
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Hello everyone. I have now finished my modified Siglent SDM3055. I didn't use the various low noise adapters for the Noctua fan. They had a resistance of 50 ohms and 147 ohms. Instead I soldered a 75 ohm resistor to the fan's 12V connection. He is very quiet. I also gave the processor a heat sink.
(https://i.ibb.co/2gtr2r8/20240503-214200.jpg)
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No signs of this popcorn type noise measuring a precision resistor. Returned to the 10V reference and this behavior is back again, so pretty much points to SDM3065X LM399!!
Best,
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Here's 7 hours at 10V, 10PLC. Reminder that it's a aliexpress AD584 ref. 😉
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2162278;image)
What PLC is your meter set to?
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This is the ref I was using. I think it did pretty well for what it is. The lower voltages certainly appear more stable; though I've never run the other voltages as long as this test.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2162320;image)
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I also use an AD584KH with 10V reference voltage. I only have an SDM3055. Here are my measurements...
AD584KH 10V => 10.0001V (SDM3055)
(https://i.ibb.co/D5K7mrK/AD584KH.png)
SDM3055 Long-term measurement cold start. Measured voltage 10.0001V
(https://i.ibb.co/2YLbBbN/Mess-10-V-cold.png)
SDM3055 Long-term measurement warm start. SDM3055 was turned on an hour before. Measured voltage 10.0001V
(https://i.ibb.co/XjrFGvJ/Mess-10-V-warm.png)
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My AD584-M has a LiPo battery and I charged it before taking the measurement. Charging caused the battery to heat up and the reference voltage had a different value. When cold, the 10V setting had a voltage of 10.0000 - 10.0001V. Immediately after charging the battery, the voltage rose to 10,0004 volts. I waited an hour and the voltage was back to 10,0000V.
AD584-M circuit diagram
(https://i.ibb.co/Gd35Ffr/AD584-circuit.png)
https://www.markhennessy.co.uk/ad584_references/ (https://www.markhennessy.co.uk/ad584_references/)
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Here's 7 hours at 10V, 10PLC. Reminder that it's a aliexpress AD584 ref. 😉
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2162278;image)
What PLC is your meter set to?
It is 10PLC and a sliding 1hr window. Here's result just taken with SDM and DMM6500, both similar settings.
Points too SDM LM399 internal reference!!
Edit: Site flipped images over, had to reload again :P
Best
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It is 10PLC and a sliding 1hr window. Here's result just taken with SDM and DMM6500, both similar settings.
Points too SDM LM399 internal reference!!
Pretty weird! I obviously don't have that issue with mine, maybe you should contact Siglent? Is it still under warranty?
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Popcorn noise is a known issue that some fraction of the LM399s exhibit. References can be selected for it, which as far as I know most big manufacturers do. But since it was previously discussed here that Siglent may not be doing any burn-in on their references before shipping the unit, it may well be they don't do any selection either, so a fair fraction of their meters might be expected to exhibit popcorn noise.
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Is there an alternative remote software to EasyDMM ?
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Is there an alternative remote software to EasyDMM ?
You could try this one: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/)
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I have installed Keysight Bench but it doesn't work :( Is there no alternative to old EasyDMM software. EasyDMM doesn't have a modern look. It looks like software from the Stone Age of Windows :(
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Is there an alternative remote software to EasyDMM ?
You could try this one: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/)
Mmmm... I thought it would be better but... no
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I have installed Keysight Bench but it doesn't work :( Is there no alternative to old EasyDMM software. EasyDMM doesn't have a modern look. It looks like software from the Stone Age of Windows :(
If you complain that the software is bad, you can always write better ones and show how to do it properly (the communication protocol is known) :popcorn:
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Yes, that is right. Keysight has very good software but only for Keysight products and not free :(
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Mmmm... I thought it would be better but... no
If you want more useful suggestions, then try stating your requirements in a more specific way then "better" and "looks like from the stone age of Windows". Sigrok (https://sigrok.org/wiki/Main_Page) claims to support the DMM, though probably not in all features. If you want to do something specific like controlling a power supply and a DMM to measure drop out of a voltage regulator, then writing your own software using something like LabVIEW or Python might be the better solution. I don't like the "graphical programming" of LabVIEW, but it does make it really easy to build a GUI that connects to instruments.
Yes, that is right. Keysight has very good software but only for Keysight products and not free :(
If software is so important to you, then you should probably look at software before buying.
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Yes, that is right. Keysight has very good software but only for Keysight products and not free :(
If software is so important to you, then you should probably look at software before buying.
True, but realistically most (if not all) of the free software provided by the manufacturer together with test equipment is pretty crappy to begin with. So a better way is to find a free or commercial software package written by people who actually care about implementing meaningfull functionality. This will require going through a learning curve one way or another though.
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Is there an alternative remote software to EasyDMM ?
You could try this one: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/)
Mmmm... I thought it would be better but... no
Did you even try it? It has a lot of power, and can be configured all kinds of wacky ways.
I have 2 DMMs running right now, and I can add even more devices if I wanted. I've never actually configured it before today, so it was a little clunky to get used to it at first, but clearly worth the price.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2163997;image)
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I've been messing with TC more, and it's awesome. This is from a cold start:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2164225;image)
I think this is fantastic if you consider it's full screen and full quality as captured. Signiiiiiiificantly better than the tiny screen captures directly available from the meters.
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Yes, that is right. Keysight has very good software but only for Keysight products and not free :(
I don't fully agree with this ;) Although I use software from this company (ADS, Gensys, etc.). On the other hand, as colleagues mentioned, you didn't specify exactly what the problem is. The software may vary and sometimes certain GUI concepts take some getting used to. The same is true with measuring equipment - when using equipment from different companies, you often need to develop certain habits in order to be able to cope with a different approach to using the equipment.
However, if I need to do something unusual quickly, I use Matlab or C#.NET (where the program can be quickly created almost from ready-made puzzles). There is also the above-mentioned Python and LabVIEW - although I do not use them due to my insufficient knowledge (it is faster for me to use the tools I know - and they are usually sufficient to achieve the goal). It's true that I recommend LabView or Python if someone is not a programmer - for example, some things bother me in Python, but this is due to my habits of writing in C, C++, and Assembler. It is easier to learn for people who do not program (they do not have certain habits).
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How can I set a live tend chart in TestController like in EasyDMM :-//
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How can I set a live tend chart in TestController like in EasyDMM :-//
That's what I showed above was a live trend chart in both screenshots. It is a little clunky to setup though, as I mentioned. Or I should say it's clunky to learn it at first.
To have the charts and tables load data, you need to enable the Log on the main window. Click log and pick the time interval.
Then go to the "Scales for chart" tab and set your scale range for each device that will be tracked. In my screenshot I set Auto min range to 1uV and Auto bottom step to 100uV. Experiment with those settings to get the hang of it. If you search the TC thread for "scales for chart" you'll probably find other useful info.
This is what mine looks like right now:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2166157;image)
For the other popups you see in my screenshot, go back to the main (Commands) tab, click Popups and choose what you want. Readouts, Grid Panels, Device Mode panels, and Adjust scale are what I showed in my previous screenshot.
Popups:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2166163;image)
You can pop the grid panels out as individuals by right-clicking them. You can also right-click lots of things to change colors.
There's lots of fancy things you can do with scripting, but I'm not likely to bother with any of that. The basic stuff does what I need. It's pretty awesome for these meters.
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Thank you. It worked :)
(https://i.ibb.co/rtrz7r4/Screenshot-2024-05-06-232226.png)
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Thank you. It worked :)
You're welcome. And it looks 1000x better than EasyDMM. 😉
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Hello friends :scared:
I cannot start remote temperature measurements with EasyDMM and TestController if I have selected my Custom Sensor (KTY81-121). Virtual Panel in EasyDMM it works.
(https://i.ibb.co/NFb0Lyv/Custom-1.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/Yy5w1YC/Custom-Sensor2.png)
My Sensor table for KTY81-121
1.value is resistor value and 2.value temp in ºC
(https://i.ibb.co/LZMbsg3/KTY81.png)
Siglent Adding customer defined Temperature Sensors
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/adding-customer-defined-temperature-sensors-dmm-sdm3000/
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Ahh :o
I read this in the RemoteManual..
(https://i.ibb.co/DbM0NFz/Remote-Manual.png)
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Is there a better command instead of *RST to exit remote mode on these DMMs?
I like using TestController to control my DMMs remotely, but when the *rst command is sent, it removes other settings like the screensaver and statistics stuff.
Per the manual: *RST : Restore instrument to factory default state. I scanned through the programming guide, and didn't see any obvious (to me) solution.
I would prefer a better choice than factory default state.
Thanks,
Josh
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Is there a better command instead of *RST to exit remote mode on these DMMs?
I like using TestController to control my DMMs remotely, but when the *rst command is sent, it removes other settings like the screensaver and statistics stuff.
Per the manual: *RST : Restore instrument to factory default state. I scanned through the programming guide, and didn't see any obvious (to me) solution.
I would prefer a better choice than factory default state.
As mentioned in the TC thread this might be some Local/Remote issue.
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Is there a better command instead of *RST to exit remote mode on these DMMs?
I like using TestController to control my DMMs remotely, but when the *rst command is sent, it removes other settings like the screensaver and statistics stuff.
Per the manual: *RST : Restore instrument to factory default state. I scanned through the programming guide, and didn't see any obvious (to me) solution.
I would prefer a better choice than factory default state.
As mentioned in the TC thread this might be some Local/Remote issue.
The issue is that TC relies on the *rst command to disconnect remote control. I removed the *rst command from the siglent file, and it no longer resets to factory defaults...it also doesn't disconnect remote control after TC is closed. Without *rst, I have to power cycle the DMM to regain local control.
Does EasyDMM use SCPI or another protocol? EasyDMM disconnects without resetting to factory defaults.
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Is there a better command instead of *RST to exit remote mode on these DMMs?
I like using TestController to control my DMMs remotely, but when the *rst command is sent, it removes other settings like the screensaver and statistics stuff.
Per the manual: *RST : Restore instrument to factory default state. I scanned through the programming guide, and didn't see any obvious (to me) solution.
I would prefer a better choice than factory default state.
As mentioned in the TC thread this might be some Local/Remote issue.
The issue is that TC relies on the *rst command to disconnect remote control. I removed the *rst command from the siglent file, and it no longer resets to factory defaults...it also doesn't disconnect remote control after TC is closed. Without *rst, I have to power cycle the DMM to regain local control.
Does EasyDMM use SCPI or another protocol? EasyDMM disconnects without resetting to factory defaults.
Check the Programming manual for a SCPI 'Local' command. It may need to be added into the TC definition. :-//
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Check the Programming manual for a SCPI 'Local' command. It may need to be added into the TC definition. :-//
I did. I looked through the Remote Manual and the Programming Guide for variations of reset, local, factory, connect, disconnect, etc. and I couldn't find anything else.
Is there a way to change the factory default state to include custom settings?
I found an (unfortunately unhelpful) guide from Keysight that has the option for *RST LOC to reset the state to local, but that doesn't work on my Siglent, the LOC part is ignored and the DMM is set back to factory default.
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Check the Programming manual for a SCPI 'Local' command. It may need to be added into the TC definition. :-//
I did. I looked through the Remote Manual and the Programming Guide for variations of reset, local, factory, connect, disconnect, etc. and I couldn't find anything else.
Is there a way to change the factory default state to include custom settings?
I found an (unfortunately unhelpful) guide from Keysight that has the option for *RST LOC to reset the state to local, but that doesn't work on my Siglent, the LOC part is ignored and the DMM is set back to factory default.
This might be something we need to take back to Siglent for a dedicated return to Local SCPI command.
BTW, check how EasyDMM handles the return to Local command also please.
Write something up Josh and I'll forward it.
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Check the Programming manual for a SCPI 'Local' command. It may need to be added into the TC definition. :-//
I did. I looked through the Remote Manual and the Programming Guide for variations of reset, local, factory, connect, disconnect, etc. and I couldn't find anything else.
Is there a way to change the factory default state to include custom settings?
I found an (unfortunately unhelpful) guide from Keysight that has the option for *RST LOC to reset the state to local, but that doesn't work on my Siglent, the LOC part is ignored and the DMM is set back to factory default.
This might be something we need to take back to Siglent for a dedicated return to Local SCPI command.
Write something up Josh and I'll forward it.
I think I did already? 😉
We need an SCPI command to return control to the local device (in this case Siglent DMMs) after the device has been controlled remotely.
Currently, this is being done by using *rst, which returns to a factory default state, and inconveniently loses user settings (screensaver, statistics, etc.).
Keysight SCPI commands include the option to specifically reset the communication state. LOCal, REMote, RWL (Remote with Lockout). This logic is significantly more user friendly. See attached.
Thanks,
Josh
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Is there a better command instead of *RST to exit remote mode on these DMMs?
...
Provided the PDF: SDM3055_RemoteManual_RC06035-E01A.pdf
ChatPDF answered:
"To exit remote mode on the SDM3055/SDM3055A Digital Multimeter without using the *RST command, you can use the following alternative method:
Send the command "*CLS" to clear the status registers and error queue.
Send the command "SYSTem:LOCal" to switch the instrument from remote mode to local mode.
By sending these two commands sequentially, you can effectively exit remote mode on the DMM without performing a full reset using *RST. This method allows you to maintain the current configuration and settings of the instrument while switching back to local mode."
If it works or not... :-//
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I think I did already? 😉
We need an SCPI command to return control to the local device (in this case Siglent DMMs) after the device has been controlled remotely.
Can you check EasyDMM behavior ?
I believe this might hold clues are to whether there is a bug or if additional SCPI commands are required to preserve user settings.
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I think I did already? 😉
We need an SCPI command to return control to the local device (in this case Siglent DMMs) after the device has been controlled remotely.
Can you check EasyDMM behavior ?
I believe this might hold clues are to whether there is a bug or if additional SCPI commands are required to preserve user settings.
That was my first thought, but I didn't find any kind of useful logs with it, and I don't have anything setup to monitor what commands it's sending. Do you have a suggestion for that?
EasyDMM doesn't have the reset issue at all. Connect/disconnect states are set without messing anything up. Though it mostly sucks by comparison beyond that. 😉
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I think I did already? 😉
We need an SCPI command to return control to the local device (in this case Siglent DMMs) after the device has been controlled remotely.
Can you check EasyDMM behavior ?
I believe this might hold clues are to whether there is a bug or if additional SCPI commands are required to preserve user settings.
That was my first thought, but I didn't find any kind of useful logs with it, and I don't have anything setup to monitor what commands it's sending. Do you have a suggestion for that?
EasyDMM doesn't have the reset issue at all. Connect/disconnect states are set without messing anything up. Though it mostly sucks by comparison beyond that. 😉
Nothing at all apart from some advanced sniffing.
Anyways, member Mortymore might have offered a solution. :-+
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"To exit remote mode on the SDM3055/SDM3055A Digital Multimeter without using the *RST command, you can use the following alternative method:
Send the command "*CLS" to clear the status registers and error queue.
Send the command "SYSTem:LOCal" to switch the instrument from remote mode to local mode.
By sending these two commands sequentially, you can effectively exit remote mode on the DMM without performing a full reset using *RST. This method allows you to maintain the current configuration and settings of the instrument while switching back to local mode."
If it works or not... :-//
It didn't work for me, but that could be a PEBKAC error. I tried SYSTem:LOCal, SYST:LOC, syst:loc and none of that did anything to exit the remote state.
Currently, this is what the exit command is:
; Final command to meter before breaking connection
#finalCmd abort;*cls;*rst
Thanks,
Josh
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Nothing at all apart from some advanced sniffing.
Anyways, member Mortymore might have offered a solution. :-+
VXI-11 bus, not SCPI for EasyDMM. It uses a "destroy_link" command.
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To return to local control, just press the shift key :-) this only works if you do not have any data being actively received by TC, so don't have a grid panel open or the "current values" tab open, if you are actively communicating with the meter you will see the display flick briefly to local and then revert back to remote.
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To return to local control, just press the shift key :-) this only works if you do not have any data being actively received by TC, so don't have a grid panel open or the "current values" tab open, if you are actively communicating with the meter you will see the display flick briefly to local and then revert back to remote.
Thank you! That's a great workaround until Rob gets them to add the SCPI command. My only concern is for after shutting down TC, so that works great.
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New SDM3055 firmware:
2024/4/7 1.02.01.28
1. Added software options for accessory SCD30A.
2. Only upgrading to 1.02.01.27R2 can upgrade to this version
2023/4/4 1.02.01.27R2
1. Supports EMMC flash.
2. Add user-defined cold end compensation for temperature measurement.
3. After upgrading to version 1.02, you cannot return to version 1.01
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3055-series (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3055-series)
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WOW, SDM3055 now ~35MB firmware files compared with ~9MB previously. :o
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WOW, SDM3055 now ~35MB firmware files compared with ~9MB previously. :o
And it takes a while to install both updates, ~5min.
New messages appear on screen and when the upgrade is successful.
1. Added software options for accessory SCD30A.
Yes, this:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/23_05_17/SCD30A_DataSheet_EN01A.pdf
Will test SCD30A for extended periods during our 3 day EMEX show next week.
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Rob, maybe give Siglent a poke to get it working on the 3065X…
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Rob, maybe give Siglent a poke to get it working on the 3065X…
It should work on all their DMMs including the SDM3055X-E. 😉
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It seems that the changelog is a little messed up. I see different information and the date doesn't match either.
By the way, what is meant by EMMC Flash that is now supported?
[attach=1]
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Very interesting, but this point...
...
3. After upgrading to version 1.02, you cannot return to version 1.01
...
...let me, if there are still bugs, be very careful and reserved.
Anyone who has not only had to wait for months but years and in the meantime only survived through the return to an older version, hopefully understand this.
I was no longer informed for a long time. Maybe Siglent is now interested in doing everything better for his buyers ?
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Just got a new SDM3065X in, and the firmware shows 3.02.01.13
I checked to see if I needed to flash this before putting it in service, but this code version doesn't appear available to download and is N+1 rev higher than the version on the site.
3.01.01.12R1
It's been a long week; maybe I've got something wrong.
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Just got a new SDM3065X in, and the firmware shows 3.02.01.13
I checked to see if I needed to flash this before putting it in service, but this code version doesn't appear available to download and is N+1 rev higher than the version on the site.
3.01.01.12R1
It's been a long week; maybe I've got something wrong.
You're fine. Your DMM came with newer firmware than what's available to download. That happens, especially on newer devices before a fw revision is released for download.
You likely won't be able to flash any firmware until a new branch is posted that starts with 3.02.xx.xx.
My DMM arrived with 3.02.01.12R1.
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SCD30A 30A shunt for SDM3055/65X
In the recent EMEX 3 day exhibition we did a prolonged run with the new 30A shunt and compared accuracy reported on SDM3055 vs the SDL1030X Eload.
Eload was set in CC mode @5A with SPD3303X-E in Parallel mode supplying the current.
3-4mA variance was most seen which IMO is pretty decent calibration of a 30A capable shunt extending SDM 10A range to 30A capability.
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SCD30A 30A shunt for SDM3055/65X
Nice little gem, like the form factor.
Other ranges (upper) avaible ?
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SCD30A 30A shunt for SDM3055/65X
Nice little gem, like the form factor.
Other ranges (upper) available ?
Seeing nothing on the Chinese website Martin.
Was pretty pleased with its performance although I haven't pushed it past 5A......yet !
Might get to do that this weekend, stay tuned as I have 60A from SPS5042X available. >:D
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Is there already experience with the new 1.02 .... generation of the 3055 firmware ?
Edit:
As it looks, there was a change to V1.02.01.28 on the same day when the V1.02.01.27R2 appeared ::)
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SDM3055 with SCD30A accessory shunt 20A test.
Supply at 10V 25A setting from SPS5042X (60A capable) into SPL1030X set to CC 20A load.
Hookup wires used 2.5mm2 (12g) warmed slightly at near 20A as expected.
No Sense capabilities were used.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2278942)
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It looks like the SDM3065X can be had for 599.00 on SiglentNA clearance site:
https://siglentna.com/products/clearance/#
Not bad if you happen to be able to order from the NA site.
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It looks like the SDM3065X can be had for 599.00 on SiglentNA clearance site:
https://siglentna.com/products/clearance/#
Not bad if you happen to be able to order from the NA site.
https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3065x-clearance/
https://siglentna.com/contact-us/ or Add to Cart
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It looks like the SDM3065X can be had for 599.00 on SiglentNA clearance site:
https://siglentna.com/products/clearance/#
Not bad if you happen to be able to order from the NA site.
Yes, but it's important to note that it comes with a 1 year warranty instead of 3. Not sure about the cal cert either.
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I just recently bought an SDM3055, but it still stuns me, that even if it is a brand new unit, latest firmware, etc, the meter is only 220 000 counts. Even the official data spec sheet cover shows a unit with 2.39999 DCV on it and clearly states that it is a 240 000 counts meter. I thought that older units were 220000 or something, but it is for sure has been resolved and they would not lie to the customers. Am I doing something wrong or misunderstand something?
Another thing is the otherwise nice feeling test probes are a couple hundred ohms when resting on each other by their weight. It is kind of unresponsive in continuity mode... While my Probemasters are near instant and less than 0.1 ohm.
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I don't know how you're calculating the counts, but the SDM3055 I had was certainly a true 5.5 digit meter. But it was my least favorite of my bench DMMs, so I sold it. Right now I have the SDM3045X upgraded to the SDM3055X-E, and that's great (5.5 digits, and no fan). But my favorite is my SDM3065X. There's no comparison for me. I'll eventually have a second SDM3065X.
Probe Master probes make most other brands look like junk. I don't even unpackage the probes that come with devices. 🤷
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Well, what do you expect when putting the tips on each other ?
Or did I misunderstood it ?
Without an appeal pressure, greasy fingers on a metal surface would enable a variance of almost zero to almost infinite.
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...I don't even unpackage the probes that come with devices. 🤷
This is a mistake. 8)
Better unpack. I have to search for a very long time to find others who were little or no better.
For a measuring line that is included in a device, those of Siglent are really first class.
I actually prefer to use them today than the expensive bought ones who are all hanging around here.
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...I don't even unpackage the probes that come with devices. 🤷
This is a mistake. 8)
Better unpack. I have to search for a very long time to find others who were little or no better.
For a measuring line that is included in a device, those of Siglent are really first class.
I actually prefer to use them today than the expensive bought ones who are all hanging around here.
I use Probe Master probes. They're reasonably priced, and excellent. It's not a mistake; I don't waste my time when I already have something better. 😉
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Hi all!
About a month ago I purchased an SDM3065X (AKIP-2102/2), and now its mileage has reached 500 hours.
I'm a little worried about the lack of zero at the closed inputs, only REG saves me. Everything else is within the stated error.
Please look at the cold start of the multimeter with shorted inputs, reassure me or ....
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I don't know how you're calculating the counts, but the SDM3055 I had was certainly a true 5.5 digit meter. But it was my least favorite of my bench DMMs, so I sold it. Right now I have the SDM3045X upgraded to the SDM3055X-E, and that's great (5.5 digits, and no fan). But my favorite is my SDM3065X. There's no comparison for me. I'll eventually have a second SDM3065X.
Probe Master probes make most other brands look like junk. I don't even unpackage the probes that come with devices. 🤷
Being a true 5.5 digit multimeter can be totally different for every DMM. The 3055 is clearly a true 5.5 digit one, but calculating the counts what does not match. With a 240 000 count meter, the range switch should be at 2.39999 Volts, 23.9999 Volts, etc, that's why it is 240 000. This multimeter advertised like that. Instead it switches ranges at 2.19999V, 21.9999V, etc..
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Well, what do you expect when putting the tips on each other ?
Or did I misunderstood it ?
Without an appeal pressure, greasy fingers on a metal surface would enable a variance of almost zero to almost infinite.
I have like 20 pair of testleads, mostly Probemasters, a bunch of Brymen and a few Fluke TL175 and TL71s. If I put them together, holding the leads by their strain release, every one of them beeps at continuity quite steadily. (maybe exept 1-2 chinese no-name, or Uni-T ones don't) I would just expect this Siglent ones to be better, as if feels quite solid in hand, that's all. Unfortunately my only straight jack Probemaster leads are 90cm/3ft ones, so it is not long enough for bench usage, my longer ones are all angled, so have to order new ones for this.
Of course I cleaned with IPA beforehand, so there were no greasy fingers involved :)
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I just recently bought an SDM3055, but it still stuns me, that even if it is a brand new unit, latest firmware, etc, the meter is only 220 000 counts. Even the official data spec sheet cover shows a unit with 2.39999 DCV on it and clearly states that it is a 240 000 counts meter. I thought that older units were 220000 or something, but it is for sure has been resolved and they would not lie to the customers. Am I doing something wrong or misunderstand something?
Range changing value might be confusing you. :-//
If I get a chance with one with the latest FW, just a month old, I'll check where the 2V range switches.
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Being a true 5.5 digit multimeter can be totally different for every DMM. The 3055 is clearly a true 5.5 digit one, but calculating the counts what does not match. With a 240 000 count meter, the range switch should be at 2.39999 Volts, 23.9999 Volts, etc, that's why it is 240 000. This multimeter advertised like that. Instead it switches ranges at 2.19999V, 21.9999V, etc..
Thanks, I see what you're saying now. If you search this thread for 240,000 - you'll see other people mention this as well. It doesn't look like the count discrepancy was ever really resolved, or maybe I was too lazy to look deeper. ;)
The 3055X-E behaves the same way, changing above 2.199.
Range changing value might be confusing you. :-//
Are people misunderstanding how the counts effect range changing value? I don't know the specifics of that at all, so I'm curious.
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Looking at the datasheet it is confusing, all right. It clearly states something what is not. But I'm actually looking the manual and it does not say anything about the counts. Not even the specification part. Even the cover photo has been changed to 2.19999V :)
So the manual is kind of following the 220000 count way, which is ok. But they advertising differently and it is confusing.
A bit more confusing is when I switch to AC Volts, and put it in Dual display with Frequency, it shows an extra digit and even way beyond the 240 000 :)
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The manual implies (in bad English) that there is a 20% over-range tolerance on all ranges. So, for say 2V range this would imply a value of 2.40000 before 'Overload' is displayed:
(http://)
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The manual implies (in bad English) that there is a 20% over-range tolerance on all ranges. So, for say 2V range this would imply a value of 2.40000 before 'Overload' is displayed:
(http://)
Thanks, good catch. So it does indicates 240 000 counts. But it still does not do it. Strange. The SDM3065X user manual states 10% for the 6.5 digits, what is true, as they are selling it as a 2 200 000 count unit.
I did ask this from the Siglent EU support, waiting for them to answer.
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Hi all!
About a month ago I purchased an SDM3065X (AKIP-2102/2), and now its mileage has reached 500 hours.
I'm a little worried about the lack of zero at the closed inputs, only REG saves me. Everything else is within the stated error.
Please look at the cold start of the multimeter with shorted inputs, reassure me or ....
I don't have time to test for an hour, but indeed it should be zero.
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The manual implies (in bad English) that there is a 20% over-range tolerance on all ranges. So, for say 2V range this would imply a value of 2.40000 before 'Overload' is displayed:
(http://)
That might be up for debate. If it's 20% over ranges, not counts: for the range of 2V, then 20% above is 2.2V.
Not when I went to school. :P
2.0/5 = 0.4
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The manual implies (in bad English) that there is a 20% over-range tolerance on all ranges. So, for say 2V range this would imply a value of 2.40000 before 'Overload' is displayed:
(http://)
That might be up for debate. If it's 20% over ranges, not counts: for the range of 2V, then 20% above is 2.2V.
If 2V is the range the 120% of it is: 2V x 1.2 = 2.4V
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My brain wasn't functioning oops. 🤣
Okay then, what gives? Where's the 2.4V?
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And the weird thing is that 'Dual' mode is a bit buggy still and you can persuade it to show you extra digits (I think the first time you use it in a session). So, for example, here it is giving me slightly more than 2.4V in the 2V range:
(http://)
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And the weird thing is that 'Dual' mode is a bit buggy still and you can persuade it to show you extra digits (I think the first time you use it in a session). So, for example, here it is giving me slightly more than 2.4V in the 2V range:
(http://)
And up to 999,999 counts
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4618153/#msg4618153 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4618153/#msg4618153)
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That's interesting. My SDM3055X-E doesn't do that, I think it really is 220,000 counts. In dual mode, if I even go above 2.2 it switches the range...or at least they convinced it better that it's 220,000.
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Just tested now and...
With the latest firmware my SDM3055 in dual mode seems to be behaving like a 220,000 count meter now, where once it was like a 999,999 count meter.
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...
I have like 20 pair of testleads, mostly Probemasters, a bunch of Brymen and a few Fluke TL175 and TL71s. If I put them together, holding the leads by their strain release, every one of them beeps at continuity quite steadily. ...
...Of course I cleaned with IPA beforehand, so there were no greasy fingers involved :)
If now, of all things, a mistake did not happen for your probes, a poor transition, for example, for the cable for the cable during production
can I only imagine that a very thin layer, possibly from plastic steams, is either from the production or packaging on the surface ?
Maybe the surface should be made more than just with a cleaner. Really metallic blank.
Of course, you could now say that the cable is not worth a word, but the details are always important and probes are an important detail when measuring.
I only write this in detail because my probes are flawless. If that were as with you, it would notice me uncomfortably every day.
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I just used acetone and a slightly abrasive sponge to clean it. Improved a lot. Of course still twice the resistance than the ProbeMasters, but it is now on par with the Fluke ones at least with around 0.06Ohm, which is not surprising as neither of them are gold plated.
I'm satisfied with them now, thanks for making me not letting them go :)
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I just got a response from the Siglent EU support:
"thank you for the information.
In the meantime, we found out that we forgot to adapt the documents to the function.
The complete SDM3 series is working actually with 10% overload.
Sorry, for the mistake in the documentation.
My colleagues in the head quarter will change that as soon as possible.
For the moment there is no way to get the 20% overload with your device.
Sorry, again."
So I think, that's it, case closed :) bummer. I don't really understand what has to be adapted, as it never did 240 000 counts, so the documentation has been wrong for like 8 years, but whatever.
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I don't know how you're calculating the counts, but the SDM3055 I had was certainly a true 5.5 digit meter. But it was my least favorite of my bench DMMs, so I sold it. Right now I have the SDM3045X upgraded to the SDM3055X-E, and that's great (5.5 digits, and no fan). But my favorite is my SDM3065X. There's no comparison for me. I'll eventually have a second SDM3065X.
Probe Master probes make most other brands look like junk. I don't even unpackage the probes that come with devices. 🤷
Being a true 5.5 digit multimeter can be totally different for every DMM. The 3055 is clearly a true 5.5 digit one, but calculating the counts what does not match. With a 240 000 count meter, the range switch should be at 2.39999 Volts, 23.9999 Volts, etc, that's why it is 240 000. This multimeter advertised like that. Instead it switches ranges at 2.19999V, 21.9999V, etc..
24 count is used on the 3065, the 3055 is 22
UPDATE, I take that back, my 3065X is 22 as well, I am sure it used to go to 24... oh well, don't care.
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Never had a Siglent SDM 3055, sold my Rigol 3068, kept my R&S 8012-G, which is 5¾-digit with 480.000 counts, but I found this footage in my YouTube-Collection by mjlorton:
Siglent SDM3055 5.5 Digit Bench Multimeter Review - Pt1 (1080p_30fps_H264-128kbit_AAC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wXZ5IezdP0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wXZ5IezdP0)
The time stamp of my snapshot is at the bottom: 21.03 min. from 29.50 min.
This is obviously a very old FW, so that I don't know, whether this post is still useful for anyone to prove whatever...but who knows... :-DMM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9m6dRDQ/Bildschirmfoto-vom-2024-06-27-11-07-03.png) (https://postimg.cc/njp9z4JL)
Cheers! ;)
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Yeah, that's why I'm a bit upset. And it is a regular thing with Chinese manufacturers, that there are a lot of inconsistency and trial/error in their product range. I'm glad that we have opportunity to own such capable devices such a low price point, but have to be realistic about what to expect in terms of regulations, conformity and consistency when it comes to documentation and specifications. Even with a product that is more than 8 years old in the lineup. After 8 years, one of the main specification aspect is overlooked in the documentation is worrying :)
Nevertheless, I'm all-in-all happy with it, it's a good instrument and only managed to freeze it two times via the dual display feature :)
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Nevertheless, I'm all-in-all happy with it, it's a good instrument and only managed to freeze it two times via the dual display feature :)
Please state FW version installed.
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It's the latest firmware.
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Sorry, for disturbing this "Siglent" topic, but I was curious about the behaviour of my 5¾-digit with 480.000 counts...
Unfortunately, my cheap power supplies are not good enough, to come any closer, but I am quite happy with the result, as this DMM is also quite old and has never seen a newer FW for years... - still hoping to get a successor with a bigger display:
(https://i.postimg.cc/9MdMXgxm/480-000.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDv83gcW)
Cheers! ;)
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Anyone had issues with their SDM3065X resistance measurement being off, like completely off? Measuring a 4.3kOhm resistor and it reads 3.88843kOhm while my Brymen BM869s reads 4.2960kOhm (which is correct).
I was reading a KTY-sensor with the meter and got confused as the KTY seemed to be off by like 6 degrees C (in a range where it's supposed to be +-1.5C accurate). Tried the Brymen and got correct readings.
I've not used the benchDMM much at all (it states 24 starts since I bought it a couple of years ago), so I can't say if this is something that has happened now or been there from the beginning.
From what I can tell the voltage measurements are just fine, or Brymen and the Siglent seem to agree on numbers at least :)
Anyone experienced something like this before or got any input?
EDIT: Sorry, forgot to say that I have tried 4 wire measurement, exact same error(s).
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Anyone had issues with their SDM3065X resistance measurement being off, like completely off? Measuring a 4.3kOhm resistor and it reads 3.88843kOhm while my Brymen BM869s reads 4.2960kOhm (which is correct).
I was reading a KTY-sensor with the meter and got confused as the KTY seemed to be off by like 6 degrees C (in a range where it's supposed to be +-1.5C accurate). Tried the Brymen and got correct readings.
I've not used the benchDMM much at all (it states 24 starts since I bought it a couple of years ago), so I can't say if this is something that has happened now or been there from the beginning.
From what I can tell the voltage measurements are just fine, or Brymen and the Siglent seem to agree on numbers at least :)
Anyone experienced something like this before or got any input?
If you zero the leads, what does it say? Also did you try to measure it with a 4wire method also? Is the resistor in-circuit?
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Anyone had issues with their SDM3065X resistance measurement being off, like completely off? Measuring a 4.3kOhm resistor and it reads 3.88843kOhm while my Brymen BM869s reads 4.2960kOhm (which is correct).
I was reading a KTY-sensor with the meter and got confused as the KTY seemed to be off by like 6 degrees C (in a range where it's supposed to be +-1.5C accurate). Tried the Brymen and got correct readings.
I've not used the benchDMM much at all (it states 24 starts since I bought it a couple of years ago), so I can't say if this is something that has happened now or been there from the beginning.
From what I can tell the voltage measurements are just fine, or Brymen and the Siglent seem to agree on numbers at least :)
Anyone experienced something like this before or got any input?
Please confirm firmware version in use.
3.01.01.12R1 is the latest.
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Sorry forgot to say that I have tried 4 wire measurement, same error.
One pair of leads (Sensepeek with pogo pins) reads 0.22 Ohm
Brymen leads read 0.12 Ohm (0.10 Ohm on BM869s)
It happens that they have been in curcuit measurements, even the KTY measurement that goes to a soldering pen/tweezer because it was connected to the board.
For the 4.3k at least one end of the path is or should be high impedance.
I can't really reproduce it now with external resistors, of course. I think I might have jumped to conclusions and should probably have done some more testing before writing out here :palm:
I just double checked with the BM869s, I get slightly different readings 4.283 vs 4.296 depending on which "direction" I'm measuring on the resistor, and yeah that should perhaps have been a giveaway.
Probably just a coincidence that BM869s gave accurate measurements "in circuit" while the Siglent didn't :S
I'll wear the dumb-hat and be happy that my meter seem to be OK. Sorry for the noise!
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SDM 3055 with 220.000 counts vs. 240.000 counts
SDM 3055X-E with 240.000 counts
Just in order to end this discussion for my brain and maybe some other users, I checked my PDF-Collection:
Considering the fact, that it is the old bumper design of the SDM 3055 - like the one mjlorton shows in my previous posted yt-video, the official "Siglent-Products-Selection-Guide-March2020" from 2020 clearly speaks from a 240.000 counts DMM. I may find a newer catalogue with the newer bumper design, but as I want to end this discussion in a calm way, I will not search any further...
(https://i.postimg.cc/kgsfg3Gs/SDM-3055-old-bumper-design-240-000.png) (https://postimg.cc/zyLnxQnH)
From what I have read so far, any/some/most Siglent DMMs do not boot any more, as long as you don't update to the latest FW, which may withdraw you an ability you may had, once you bought it?! That is, at least for me, not the best behaviour to trust in a brand like Siglent...because not anyone having a Siglent DMM does know the EEVBlog-Forum with tautech and his indefatigable work for ages... :-+
I haven't seen the model SDM 3055X-E in Europe so far, but as mentioned before, it seems to be like the good old one being used by mjlorton in his yt-video:
(https://i.postimg.cc/dtm95P2F/SDM-3055-X-E-1-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/VdvMNhZZ)
...where it "also" speaks from a "real" 240.000 counts DMM:
(https://i.postimg.cc/P5XQc3yw/SDM-3055-X-E-2-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/fJPdSv6z)
Cheers! ;)
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They're capable of 240,000 counts, but for whatever reason, Siglent decided to limit them to 220,000.
I have the 3055X-E latest firmware, and it is also limited to 220,000 counts. I don't know who cares enough about that difference to use outdated firmware.
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The only Siglent device I have, is a cheap scope SDS 1202X-E. I also had problems with a FW update in between, so that I went back to the oldest FW, as I couldn't save pictures... Luckily, I have never had a boot issue, like the users of a Siglent SDM DMM, despite the old FW on my 1202X-E.
The latest FW, however, solved this USB problem, so that I have nothing to complain any more, apart from the fact, that I haven't used the scope for 2-3 years... Ha ha ha... :-DD
Unfortunately, I don't know, whether this is a good idea, to try the same thing I did with my scope, going also back to an older FW, when it may does not boot any longer afterwards...thus you need a special medicine, which only tautech distributes via this EEVBlog-Forum via PM, which is also quite confusing... ::)
Considering the latest datasheet of the Siglent SDM 3055X-E, I posted above, you should have at least a claim to get your money back, to buy another brand, because this is definitely not a fine move by Siglent...or they should resolve this 240.000 counts thingie, when it is done by mistake.
Best wishes for your decision - or maybe tautech has a further solution for you?!
Cheers!
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The only Siglent device I have, is a cheap scope SDS 1202X-E. I also had problems with a FW update in between, so that I went back to the oldest FW, as I couldn't save pictures...
Only a few were affected by this, AFAIK USB stick incompatibility.
Unfortunately, I don't know,..............when it may does not boot any longer afterwards...thus you need a special medicine, which only tautech distributes via this EEVBlog-Forum via PM, which is also quite confusing... ::)
Every Siglent branch has the same tools we have and share most of them on request and every good supplier should be able to source them too to support their customers....if they could be bothered. :horse:
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...
Considering the latest datasheet of the Siglent SDM 3055X-E, I posted above, you should have at least a claim to get your money back, to buy another brand, because this is definitely not a fine move by Siglent...or they should resolve this 240.000 counts thingie, when it is done by mistake.
...
Josh has an "SDM 3055X-E" just because he upgraded his SDM3045X
And about the Siglent PDFs collection for the SDM3055, there's info wrong in them, some that were never right and after the latest update of the manual, are still wrong, and some have been corrected, but there's also information missing of functions added through firmware updates previous to the latest manual release.
So, don't expect to get an intel of all the functionality of the meter, or assertiveness of what it's stated in the manual.
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Well, speaking for those having a real "Siglent SDM 3055/3055X-E" my sense of what is right or wrong is very simple: When a brand does promote its product with pictures as shown above, of being able to measure 240.000 counts, to get a selling advantage about rival companies, there is no denying the fact, that you take away an essential property, when you do it via a FW update within the same series.
The time dependent boot problem of Siglent SDM DMMs is a reason for me, not to buy this product; normally a FW update gives you more features and/or improves stability. This behaviour to withdraw a pre-assured property, proved by their own official pictures and own product descriptions, is a no go, as long as this is not done by mistake and will be resolved - this is just my simple sense of justice.
Cheers! ;)
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:clap: ;)
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...
Considering the latest datasheet of the Siglent SDM 3055X-E, I posted above, you should have at least a claim to get your money back, to buy another brand, because this is definitely not a fine move by Siglent...or they should resolve this 240.000 counts thingie, when it is done by mistake.
...
Josh has an "SDM 3055X-E" just because he upgraded his SDM3045X
And about the Siglent PDFs collection for the SDM3055, there's info wrong in them, some that were never right and after the latest update of the manual, are still wrong, and some have been corrected, but there's also information missing of functions added through firmware updates previous to the latest manual release.
So, don't expect to get an intel of all the functionality of the meter, or assertiveness of what it's stated in the manual.
More importantly, I love my Siglent DMMs. I don't care at all about the minor difference in counts, it makes no difference to me. Ohhhhh no! My meter changes range at 2.2V instead of 2.4V...what am I going to do?? 🤣
For the record tho, the 3045X and 3055X-E are identical hardware; they dumbed it down for the global market to make extra money on the older 3055 (non X-E).
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The change in the range at 22 V or 2.2 V (for the 3055) can be an issue, as the higher ranges are no longer high impedance. It's only a few applications, but it can be a deal breaker for a few.
Not sure why they reduced the range: could be a mistake, problems with some units to properly work all the way to the old full range, or for the 3065 maybe also a calibration issue as some calibrators get a lot worse above 22 V.
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The change in the range at 22 V or 2.2 V (for the 3055) can be an issue, as the higher ranges are no longer high impedance. It's only a few applications, but it can be a deal breaker for a few.
Not sure why they reduced the range: could be a mistake, problems with some units to properly work all the way to the old full range, or for the 3065 maybe also a calibration issue as some calibrators get a lot worse above 22 V.
It makes no difference to the 3065X. The 3065 is 2,200,000 counts, and only ever stated an overage of 10% per range. 2.2V was always the changing point for that one.
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The time dependent boot problem of Siglent SDM DMMs is a reason for me, not to buy this product; normally a FW update gives you more features and/or improves stability.
:-//
There is NO time dependency regarding boot freezes and FW releases have until recently helped remedy the NAND flash problem.
But, if you were to keep up with developments these last few weeks you will have noticed a completely new OS for SDM3055 is in the latest FW versions, which if we are to interpret this correctly, should bring an end to boot freeze issues.
And added support for 30A shunts.....which I am to compare with a 30A HPAK shunt when I visit Defpom today.
Even HPAK has their issues with boot freezes......
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I actually think that the count changed from 24 to 22 when they added the user calibration to the meters, so it might be my fault LOL. :-DD
When I built the web page to generate calibration adjustment files for the Siglent meters all references and information (even from feedback I got) pointed to the 3045/3055 being 24 count, so I had to build that in.
When I did the SDM calibration adjustment demonstration video I pushed Siglent to improve the firmware on all meters to add user calibration, this, to their credit, they did do, however I think at that same stage they may have decided to make all the meters use the same count, maybe it was to make the firmwares more similar to make updates easier, or they are sharing a code base, who knows. :-/O
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I actually think that the count changed from 24 to 22 when they added the user calibration to the meters, so it might be my fault LOL. :-DD
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2298171;image)
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SCD30A 30A shunt for SDM3055/65X
In the recent EMEX 3 day exhibition we did a prolonged run with the new 30A shunt and compared accuracy reported on SDM3055 vs the SDL1030X Eload.
Eload was set in CC mode @5A with SPD3303X-E in Parallel mode supplying the current.
3-4mA variance was most seen which IMO is pretty decent calibration of a 30A capable shunt extending SDM 10A range to 30A capability.
When visiting Defpom today we tested a HPAK 30A shunt with almost identical specs to Siglents SCD30A 30A shunt.
SDM3055 I had was used.
The results were ..... interesting.
HPAK shunt was more accurate at low current settings where there was no requirement for it with 10A capability already. :-//
We tested to 15A where SCD30A gave better accuracy.
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NEED HELP!
My SDM3065 is not starting anymore, it hangs during boot. Soft power switch still works.
I tried several soft and hard power cycles. And my three year warranty period has ended in May! |O
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NEED HELP!
My SDM3065 is not starting anymore, it hangs during boot. Soft power switch still works.
I tried several soft and hard power cycles. And my three year warranty period has ended in May! |O
@tautech should be able to help you.
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NEED HELP!
My SDM3065 is not starting anymore, it hangs during boot. Soft power switch still works.
I tried several soft and hard power cycles. And my three year warranty period has ended in May! |O
@tautech should be able to help you.
I‘m still in contact with him! And today itˋs Sunday!!
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Thanks to Rob! Everything is up and running!
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I am glad to hear that - even on sunday! Now, have fun watching the EM final on ARD! :popcorn:
Would you mind giving us some basic information:
date of purchase: probably around May 2021
hardware version:
which FW version:
how many FW updates:
last FW update:
how often in use:
You seem to have several Siglent products and it is clear, that the file from tautech will revive your SDM 3065X and you will be happy again, but for me this is an unbearable situation being dependent on another's help, allthough you haven't done anything wrong, but using a benchtop multimeter. That just won't do for me!
Because of your problem and many others having the same issue, I will buy a Rigol DM3068 once again, allthough I sold mine only two years ago because of the loud fan noise and the simple display:
(https://i.postimg.cc/CL9BtMCM/Bildschirmfoto-vom-2024-07-14-19-58-54.png) (https://postimages.org/)
..., but I have never ever had any problems with it, no matter how long it was on or off or not in use at all!!! ...and that is probably the reason, why it is still more expensive than a Siglent SDM 3065X! Ha ha ha...
By the way: It seems, that Batronix will sell off all their Siglent DMMs, in order to get rid of it: :horse:
https://www.batronix.com/versand/multimeter/multimeter.html (https://www.batronix.com/versand/multimeter/multimeter.html)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sx5rgpRc/Bildschirmfoto-vom-2024-07-14-19-47-22.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Sorry, but the laugh is always on the loser! :-DD
Cheers! :)
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What did you actually want to tell us now?
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but for me this is an unbearable situation being dependent on another's help, allthough you haven't done anything wrong, but using a benchtop multimeter. That just won't do for me!
Because of your problem and many others having the same issue, I will buy a Rigol DM3068 once again, allthough I sold mine only two years ago because of the loud fan noise and the simple display:
If/when the issue occurs it's on long outdated firmware after not being used for an extended period of time. It's also not that many people that have the issue either, it's probably in an exceptionally low percentile.
You might be happier with Rigol since they're so terrible about releasing new firmware you never need to worry about running updates. 😂
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By the way, we have new oscilloscopes, new generators are coming. I wonder what the situation is with new multimeters 8)
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One of the benefits of using Siglent devices I value most is the strong and helpful community we have here and yes, Rob is our best „asset“.
I hope, that the Rigol community gets comparable support.
I‘m grateful that Rob helped me on Sunday (Monday early morning in NZ). But I got the same help from the german Siglent support when I had some issues with my scope what later was identified as a new discovered bug that was fixed with the next firmware.
And no, I don‘t want to join the Rigol-Siglent battlefield.
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By the way, we have new oscilloscopes, new generators are coming. I wonder what the situation is with new multimeters 8)
There's a pro series coming soon. SDM4065A for example. Looks nice.
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What did you actually want to tell us now?
Maybe, that watching football makes more fun...and that in the newest podcast of "Computer & Kommunikation" from WDR 5 they talked about implemented software/hardware hacks in hardware devices from certain telecommunication companies... I guess, this came into my mind, that such a device may be a time bomb, as we don't know, what the future will be, because rethinking starts always from a minority and not from the one fishing for compliments... But let us hope for the best!
Cheers! :)
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By the way, we have new oscilloscopes, new generators are coming. I wonder what the situation is with new multimeters 8)
There's a pro series coming soon. SDM4065A for example. Looks nice.
Unfortunately, it has the same dimensions as my analogue scope from 1970, respectively as the Keithley DMM 6500, when google translation is not mistaken.
In contrast to fanboys or other prejudiced people, I only want to have equipment, which is trustful and has a reasonable price vs. benefit. I don't care whether its Siglent, Rigol, Keithley, Keysight or Rohde & Schwarz or whatever...
Cheers! :)
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Unfortunately, it has the same dimensions as my analogue scope from 1970, respectively as the Keithley DMM 6500, when google translation is not mistaken.
In contrast to fanboys or other prejudiced people, I only want to have equipment, which is trustful and has a reasonable price vs. benefit. I don't care whether its Siglent, Rigol, Keithley, Keysight or Rohde & Schwarz or whatever...
Pro gear is typically larger. My ST2832 LCR is larger than my SDM3065X.
BTW- those "sale" prices you posted, are about the same as the regular prices in the US.
There's no timebombs or fanboy nonsense, only facts. You can buy whatever you like.
I'm happy with all my Siglent gear, except for my old hardware version SPD3303X. That one probably is a timebomb. Still under warranty though, so if it blows up within a year, I should be okay.
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I am glad to hear that - even on sunday!
Would you mind giving us some basic information:
date of purchase: probably around May 2021
hardware version:
which FW version:
how many FW updates:
last FW update:
how often in use:
You seem to have several Siglent products and it is clear, that the file from tautech will revive your SDM 3065X and you will be happy again, but for me this is an unbearable situation being dependent on another's help, allthough you haven't done anything wrong, but using a benchtop multimeter. That just won't do for me!
We hear you. :P
You seem ill-informed as these issues are boot freezes resulting from substandard NAND flash management......a problem even the A brands have.
Some time back FW was released to remedy this and when everyone gets up to date instead of ignoring: 3. Optimize flash R&W design in the FW release notes, these problems will disappear.
So rather than have these misbehaving units returned to a service center :horse: we have the SW tools for a straightforward and quick repair .......wherever you are in the world !
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Thanks to Rob! Everything is up and running!
As far as that is concerned, you simply have to take your hat off to Rob. :-+
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To make a headline like a boulevard newspaper because of a 2% discount, who should be deterred with it ?
This dealer sometimes makes a price campaign, which he has always done in the past.
This howl annoys. You don't have a hairdresser to whom you can tell ??
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Since I‘m a very loyal customer to my german Siglent distributor my SDM3065 was much cheaper than this „ground breaking“ special price of Batronix.
But freedom means also freedom of choice to buy what you want. I‘m happy to have it now after living too long in former East Germany.
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Because of your problem and many others having the same issue, I will buy a Rigol DM3068 once again, allthough I sold mine only two years ago because of the loud fan noise and the simple display:
I sold my Rigol DM3058 and it was exchanged by a Siglent DMM and I am very happy with my decision. I never looked back and I have never once had the thought "but the Rigol could do that better".
There's a pro series coming soon. SDM4065A for example. Looks nice.
Meh. No! I don't like the color (A black housing immediately shows any dust and always looks dusty) and I think I do not like the UI. I want to be able to switch from voltage measurement to resistance etc. with a single keystroke. This UI looks to me more like you have to use the rotary knob to select the needed measurement, which just takes unnecessary time. No thanks! I will pass.
I sincerely hope that this will not become a new trend in measuring instruments (similar to cars: fewer and fewer buttons, but everything has to be operated via a central touchscreen).
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There's a pro series coming soon. SDM4065A for example. Looks nice.
Meh. No! I don't like the color (A black housing immediately shows any dust and always looks dusty) and I think I do not like the UI. I want to be able to switch from voltage measurement to resistance etc. with a single keystroke. This UI looks to me more like you have to use the rotary knob to select the needed measurement, which just takes unnecessary time. No thanks! I will pass.
I sincerely hope that this will not become a new trend in measuring instruments (similar to cars: fewer and fewer buttons, but everything has to be operated via a central touchscreen).
I have no idea what the UI will be like. It is a touch screen though, so maybe good, maybe not. I'll take the safe assumption that the UI will get improvements after feedback from customers. I recently did a recovery to upgrade the OS on my scope, and for the 5 minutes it had an older firmware version on it, the UI updates were blatantly obvious.
The dark color casing is the trend right now with their Pro / HD models. I'm happy with my SDM3065X, and wouldn't mind a second one. I'm not picky about the case color, so I'd be curious about the new pro series too. I'm not worried about dust. My office is clean, and my TE stuff sits in shelving mostly covered.
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........(A black housing immediately shows any dust and always looks dusty).......
Those that own a black car know black isn't a color, it's a hobby. Don't ask how we know :o
Best,
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I kept running my SDM3065 and my 25y old 34401a for some hours - at the end not that bad!
The Brymen performs also good.
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I kept running my SDM3065 and my 25y old 34401a for some hours - at the end not that bad!
The Brymen performs also good.
The SPD4000 certificate notes as an 34401A gear used :-DD
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I kept running my SDM3065 and my 25y old 34401a for some hours - at the end not that bad!
The Brymen performs also good.
The SPD4000 certificate notes as an 34401A gear used :-DD
reliable equipment, happy to have one! :-+
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As it goes as having two of the SDM3065X's ... so one did not get powered for some years :-DD
After power and liked to measure
DCV :palm: SDM3065X Picture-1
ACV :palm: SDM3065X Picture-2
so reading the Service Manual:
Set to Defaults as getting back to track :-DD SDM3065X Picture-3
Cheers
Hp
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Hello guys, I'm trying to fix a SDM3045X that freezes at random times during use, so I downloaded the latest firmware (0.9R2) but my DMM doesn't seem to detect the usb key (2Go FAT32), as it doesn't show "external" path when browsing files. |O
Is there a way to force it to boot on the usb key rather than using the GUI to update ?
Thx, N.
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Hello guys, I'm trying to fix a SDM3045X that freezes at random times during use, so I downloaded the latest firmware (0.9R2) but my DMM doesn't seem to detect the usb key (2Go FAT32), as it doesn't show "external" path when browsing files. |O
Is there a way to force it to boot on the usb key rather than using the GUI to update ?
Thx, N.
Firmware update doesn't boot from USB. What size is the USB key? You could try using the SDCard Formatting Tool and see if that helps. https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/ (https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/)
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As I wrote above, I use 2Go usb key, formated in FAT32.
using the sd card internal reader won't be possible, as it isn't populated on the board (see pic below).
just found a more appropriate thread : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-boot-hang/25/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-boot-hang/25/)
I think I'll just wait for Tautech :popcorn:
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As I wrote above, I use 2Go usb key, formated in FAT32.
Ah, language barrier. I thought 2Go was a brand name lol. Here we call it 2GB. The other thread is better if one of them is stuck on the boot logo.
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Following up from the other thread talking about SDM3065X stability:
After 1 hour warm up time with both the meter and the reference on.
10.00460 (claimed by reference seller - not certified)
10.0039? on SDM3065X
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2342413;image)
I will post again after some hours.
ETA: TestController log rate is set at 0.1s.
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It is FAIRLY settled after an hour, it is still warming up for about 4 hours, after that although there is still some movement but it is small.
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Okay then. I've passed the 4 hour mark now. So I'll post the info now, then reset the data and let it run for 4 more hours and see if there's a difference.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2342595;image)
Note that there were some minor changes in temp and RH.
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ETA: If we pretend to believe the stated value of 10.0046, then the bottom number to stay within would be 10.000197976. Seems safe. 🤷
10.0046 would be displayed as 10.00460 on a 6.5-digit DMM and is 4.6mV or 460ppm over the nominal 10V. If your combined tolerance is specified as 48ppm of 10V or 480µV (40ppm * 10V + 4ppm * 20V) then your lower reading limit would be 10.00460 - .000480 or 10.00412.
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ETA: If we pretend to believe the stated value of 10.0046, then the bottom number to stay within would be 10.000197976. Seems safe. 🤷
10.0046 would be displayed as 10.00460 on a 6.5-digit DMM and is 4.6mV or 460ppm over the nominal 10V. If your combined tolerance is specified as 48ppm of 10V or 480µV (40ppm * 10V + 4ppm * 20V) then your lower reading limit would be 10.00460 - .000480 or 10.00412.
Apparently I'm still confused. If the resulting accuracy for this range is:
0.0040 + 0.0004 = 10 x (0.0040 / 100) + 10 x (0.0004 / 100) = +/-0.00044
So you're saying that the specified .00044 is an offset number instead of a percentage number? Damn it. Okay, I guess that makes more sense than another percentage.
Thank you. Learning is fun? lol
I guess there's no point in worrying about the 10.00460 since it's a bullshit number. Still pretty close anyway.
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You can imagine why I want to have my reference (yes, it's not forgotten) calibrated externally...
And even then it wouldn't be “perfect”.
In the calibration protocol of my SDM3065X, the measurements were done like this:
Fluke voltage reference set to the range, measured the actual current value with a Keysight 8.5 digit meter, then measured with the SDM3065X and its displayed value is compared to that from the Keysight.
That would be the way.
Then the reference value would be almost irrelevant, as you measure with a much more accurate meter.
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Weeeeeeellll, I think this test is pointless. My ref isn't stable enough, nor is the environment. PP was solid at 3ppm for the first two hours. Then after I sat in the room for a bit, it jumped to 3.6ppm. Then when the air conditioner shut off, it jumped again up to 4.2ppm.
None of that is bad of course, but for a tighter tolerance I'd need an enclosed ref and better environment control.
You can see the jump in the chart after the AC shut off.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2342849;image)
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Okay then. I've passed the 4 hour mark now. So I'll post the info now, then reset the data and let it run for 4 more hours and see if there's a difference.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2342595;image)
Note that there were some minor changes in temp and RH.
Think you are showing the same long term plot twice, they both look identical!!
Best,
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Think you are showing the same long term plot twice, they both look identical!!
Nuh uh! 😉
The air conditioner came back on, and the voltage went back down (or at least started to before I shut it off).
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2342869;image)
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Just noted that in all the SDM3065X plots this is showing SD (assume Standard Deviation) as 0.000000V. Don't think the SDM3065X, nor the Reference are quite that good noise wise!
Best,
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Just noted that in all the SDM3065X plots this is showing SD (assume Standard Deviation) as 0.000000V. Don't think the SDM3065X, nor the Reference are quite that good noise wise!
I assumed that was a bug when I noticed it, but also wasn't going to stop a 4 hour test to upgrade TC. 😉
Nope. Another PEBKAC error. Apparently I needed to go to the Current Values tab, right-click and increase the number of digits and/or choose SI for SD to work.
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Tomorrow I'll test both from cold start. Or should I warm up the ref first, to separate that? It makes sense to me to warm up the ref first remove the ref's drift from the test.
Ideally you'd do it both ways--with the ref warmed up and meter cold then vice versa. But try it the first way first.
Looks like 30 minutes for mine if uV resolution is needed. Immediately useable if only needing mV.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2343633;image)
I assume if I need super accuracy I should stick with what Scott said and warmup for 4 hours. Or get solar panels and never turn off the meter. 😉
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Looks like the ref is pretty good after 5 minutes or so, depending on the environmental stability.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2343783;image)
I also decided to point a hot air wand at it. 100C at 50% power. Alternated a couple times between 3 to 6 inch distance.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2343787;image)
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Looks like 30 minutes for mine if uV resolution is needed. Immediately useable if only needing mV.
I assume if I need super accuracy I should stick with what Scott said and warmup for 4 hours. Or get solar panels and never turn off the meter. 😉
Actually those results are pretty good, in fact better than the typical 34401A. I wouldn't worry about warmup times now that you've characterized it. Anything after the 5-minute mark is a very small proportion of the specified tolerance so TC and long-term drift will dominate any measurement uncertainty. IMO for 99% of uses you can use it a soon as it boots and for the rare occasion where you want maximal stability 5-10 minutes is plenty. If you are doing single-ppm relative measurements or calibrating the meter, then you might go for a 2 hour warmup.
Now you need to independently verify its absolute accuracy! :)
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Now you need to independently verify its absolute accuracy! :)
It's still in cal, and I don't have a better reference than the one I used. It also agrees with my other meters. Good enough, or you got some fun suggestions? 😉
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I'm a schmuck and decided to spend the money on a better ref that I don't need. I bought the VREF10-001 from Doug. He clearly does good work.
I captured the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd hours after 4 hours of warmup. The first hour was probably the most accurate, as I was back and forth working on my bench in the following two hours. Even with my interference (including soldering 1 foot away), the stability was excellent.
It was also much less influenced by environmental change as you can see by the minor shift related to the temperature change. With the previous (cheapo) ref, that would have been much more significant. The bigger temperature shift after about 1.5 hours was when I closed my office door and the AC became more effective.
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Here a link to the reference:
https://voltagestandard.com/shop/ols/products/vref10-001-r9
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I was impressed with the results so I emailed Doug to thank him. In his reply he said "It is interesting that the Avg reading was within 1uV during all 3 tests; the uV noise on the Reference output is low frequency noise inherent to the LT1021 Reference chip- it looks like your DVM does an excellent job of averaging."
Does the SDM3065X do any averaging outside of the statistics box?
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I was impressed with the results so I emailed Doug to thank him. In his reply he said "It is interesting that the Avg reading was within 1uV during all 3 tests; the uV noise on the Reference output is low frequency noise inherent to the LT1021 Reference chip- it looks like your DVM does an excellent job of averaging."
Does the SDM3065X do any averaging outside of the statistics box?
What NPLC settings are engaged ?
Any Math engaged ?
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Does the SDM3065X do any averaging outside of the statistics box?
What NPLC settings are engaged ?
Any Math engaged ?
10PLC and the statistics box was open.
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Does the SDM3065X do any averaging outside of the statistics box?
What NPLC settings are engaged ?
Any Math engaged ?
10PLC and the statistics box was open.
Yeah you said.
No Min / Max / Average as well ?
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No Min / Max / Average as well ?
That's in the statistics box. I haven't setup anything else. It's always like this old screenshot:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2356877;image)
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I was scouting the internet for a benchtop dmm for instantaneous autoranging for voltage and resistance. I saw a video of a sdm3045X being really quick and it beeps shortly when it detects voltage, i like that feature too. But I feel like it's overkill for my application. I just repair non-audio electronics as a hobby. At most I measure AC that comes out of the socket and usually it's DC voltage ranging from 1v to 50v. I don't really need so many counts either, i just want it fast. the 45x looks really neat but at almost 450€ the price point is high. Are there alternatives you can recommend. Please advise.
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I was scouting the internet for a benchtop dmm for instantaneous autoranging for voltage and resistance. I saw a video of a sdm3045X being really quick and it beeps shortly when it detects voltage, i like that feature too. But I feel like it's overkill for my application. I just repair non-audio electronics as a hobby. At most I measure AC that comes out of the socket and usually it's DC voltage ranging from 1v to 50v. I don't really need so many counts either, i just want it fast. the 45x looks really neat but at almost 450€ the price point is high. Are there alternatives you can recommend. Please advise.
:-//
369 Euro plus whatever taxes is the list price.
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-multimeters/sdm3045x-digital-multimeter/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-multimeters/sdm3045x-digital-multimeter/)
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the 369 Euros are without tax. it comes down to 450
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I am currently in the process of choosing an affordable bench multimeter for hobby use and am considering purchasing the SDM3045X. Upon closely studying the datasheets, I found that the datasheets from different versions show significantly different accuracy levels.
For example, in the datasheet from Siglentna and Siglenteu (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/02/SDM3045X_DataSheet_E04A.pdf (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/02/SDM3045X_DataSheet_E04A.pdf)), the DCV accuracy for the 6V range is 0.06% + 8, while in the older datasheet from Welectron (https://www.welectron.com/mediafiles/datasheets/siglent/Siglent_SDM3045X_Datasheet-Web.pdf (https://www.welectron.com/mediafiles/datasheets/siglent/Siglent_SDM3045X_Datasheet-Web.pdf)), it’s 0.02% + 6. Does anyone know which is correct? Or is there currently a new 'improved' version of the device being released?
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I am currently in the process of choosing an affordable bench multimeter for hobby use and am considering purchasing the SDM3045X. Upon closely studying the datasheets, I found that the datasheets from different versions show significantly different accuracy levels.
For example, in the datasheet from Siglentna and Siglenteu (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/02/SDM3045X_DataSheet_E04A.pdf (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/02/SDM3045X_DataSheet_E04A.pdf)), the DCV accuracy for the 6V range is 0.06% + 8, while in the older datasheet from Welectron (https://www.welectron.com/mediafiles/datasheets/siglent/Siglent_SDM3045X_Datasheet-Web.pdf (https://www.welectron.com/mediafiles/datasheets/siglent/Siglent_SDM3045X_Datasheet-Web.pdf)), it’s 0.02% + 6. Does anyone know which is correct? Or is there currently a new 'improved' version of the device being released?
Current version from HQ website:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/23_02_21/SDM3045X_DataSheet_E04A.pdf (https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/23_02_21/SDM3045X_DataSheet_E04A.pdf)
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Do these DMMs still suffer from the 2V relay click or has this been solved with a firmware update?
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Do these DMMs still suffer from the 2V relay click or has this been solved with a firmware update?
SDM3045X ?
Study this carefully for answers:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/)
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Do these DMMs still suffer from the 2V relay click or has this been solved with a firmware update?
SDM3045X ?
Study this carefully for answers:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/)
thanks, so the solution is to get the chinese x-e version or buy the 3055x.
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thanks, so the solution is to get the chinese x-e version or buy the 3055x.
Try this thread instead: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-to-sdm3055x-e-improvement-thread/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm3045x-to-sdm3055x-e-improvement-thread/)
Note that some newer hardware versions without public firmware of the 3045X cannot be improved (yet?).
If you can afford the 3055, get that instead, as it is superior hardware.
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Hi all! Became the owner of Siglent SDM3065X. First of all, I updated the firmware (since it was factory). Everything went well and the meter began to work faster and more responsively. Tell me such a moment. In DCV mode (AZ-off) 200mV, closed terminals shows a small voltage, 3.0-3.2 µV
(000.0032mV). Is this a deviation formed over a long period relative to calibration or something else? Is it possible to correct this or is it better not to have a calibrator?
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Hi,
In other words, what did you expect it to show?
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Welcome to a higher class of meter. I had a similar response when I first got my 3065. If you search back a bit, somebody responded to me with a video Dave posted explaining what you're seeing.
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Hi all! Became the owner of Siglent SDM3065X. ..
Bad choice. Do you like gambling?
I would say that for this value you don't need to worry. How do you close terminals? With probes or a shunt? For better results use a 4 pin shunt in order to also close sense terminals.
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Bad choice. Do you like gambling?
You're the only one I've seen not happy with their 3065. How much do you want for it? 😉
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Bad choice. Do you like gambling?
You're the only one I've seen not happy with their 3065. How much do you want for it? 😉
How could I be satisfied with that drift? Do you think before write?
That means gambling: anyone could have been in my place.
And also the double fail of Siglent:
1. Deliver on sale with such problem.
2. Fail to fix it. They said : "We have repair your meter" ... really?
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How could I be satisfied with that drift? Do you think before write?
That means gambling: anyone could have been in my place.
And also the double fail of Siglent:
1. Deliver on sale with such problem.
2. Fail to fix it. They said : "We have repair your meter" ... really?
We discussed this before, but I don't recall seeing anything showing the drift over time using a proper reference and using software like TestController to show the behavior.
Personally, my 3065 has shown excellent stability on test after test, not just an opinion. 🤷
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How could I be satisfied with that drift? Do you think before write?
That means gambling: anyone could have been in my place.
And also the double fail of Siglent:
1. Deliver on sale with such problem.
2. Fail to fix it. They said : "We have repair your meter" ... really?
We discussed this before, but I don't recall seeing anything showing the drift over time using a proper reference and using software like TestController to show the behavior.
Personally, my 3065 has shown excellent stability on test after test, not just an opinion. 🤷
Please re-read what I was posted at that time. You are very short on memory and wasting my time.
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Please re-read what I was posted at that time. You are very short on memory and wasting my time.
I recall you making statements without showing real data. If I'm wrong, please show me the link to your post showing your issue with a proper test setup and logging. If you don't want to discuss it, you shouldn't shit on it every time somebody else posts about it.
EVERY company has a % of issues with their meters. Go look in the DMM6500 or DMM7510 threads. It's not unique to anybody. 🤷 If you think it's a waste of time, then don't waste your time every time somebody triggers you. I absolutely hate Rigol, but I don't spend all my time in their threads shitting on their devices. I just don't buy them anymore. 😉
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...
I recall you making statements without showing real data.
Wrong! I've put the csv file exported from Test controller along with resulted graph in Excel an a picture of the PDVS2 Voltage Reference after calibration with a 3458 8,5 Digit (also calibrated). See attached.
This is the thread if you are too lazy to search for: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/decent-benchtop-multimeter-for-beginner/msg5608403/#msg5608403 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/decent-benchtop-multimeter-for-beginner/msg5608403/#msg5608403)
EVERY company has a % of issues with their meters. Go look in the DMM6500 or DMM7510 threads. It's not unique to anybody. 🤷 If you think it's a waste of time, then don't waste your time every time somebody triggers you. I absolutely hate Rigol, but I don't spend all my time in their threads shitting on their devices. I just don't buy them anymore. 😉
I don't care about Rigol ... :-//
Not discussion is a waste of time but your attitude of denial. In that thread guys with real knowledge about meters have concluded that my meters has a problem drifting out of specs very soon.
Maybe any company have fails but when you have the chance to fix it and you not fix it, I think this should be known. If Keithley or Keysight or anyone had this fail, this also should be known. I'm not taking anyone side. I'm not a shill like you. Any post about a problem on Siglent turn you on. I think this attitude affect more Siglent image than problem itself.
I want that potential buyers of SDM3065X to know about this, despite your repeated attempts to minimalize the facts. My post was not addressed to you so you can spare anyone time doing anything else.
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The curve shown looks like the warm up drift. some 25 ppm of change during warm up is not good, but also not that bad (e.g. 1.5 ppm/K and 16 K temperature rise). This number will likely scatter between units some are better and some may be worse. So the comparison with just 1 sample each gives not that much information.
It is still true, that from the construction the SDM3065 (and similar meters with a ADC chip and LM399 ref.) are a bit more prone to drift. The more problematic part of this is not the warm up part, but the long term (e.g. years) drift from aging.
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The curve shown looks like the warm up drift. some 25 ppm of change during warm up is not good, but also not that bad (e.g. 1.5 ppm/K and 16 K temperature rise). This number will likely scatter between units some are better and some may be worse. So the comparison with just 1 sample each gives not that much information.
It is still true, that from the construction the SDM3065 (and similar meters with a ADC chip and LM399 ref.) are a bit more prone to drift. The more problematic part of this is not the warm up part, but the long term (e.g. years) drift from aging.
As long that the others say and show that their 3065X meters does not show this behavior it seem to be an issue don't you think? I don't see that as a normal behavior for a 6.5 digit DMM.
L.E. Especially that it was calibrated and adjusted by Siglent. They should see that and fix it or at least tell me about. But they tell me "We have repaired your meter".
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The specs for the SDM3065 allow for up to 5 ppm/K (given for the larger temp range, but expect a similar limit near 20°C.). A TC of some 1-2 ppm/K is kind of normal for a 6 digit meter. The temperature rise in a meter from off to warmed up tends to be in the 10-20 K range. So the 25 ppm change on warm up are prefectly in the expected range, though one could be lucky and get a better unit.
The more worrying point could be the absolute difference after warm up. This suggstes that the meter is more at the low end of the spec. intervall, possibly already out.
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For sure is out.
But I'm sure that no one can take that as good or normal state.
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I'm happy with the purchase considering the price (400euro). At the current time of purchase, I have not found more suitable options. I have poor vision (retinitis pigmentosa) and cannot see the phosphor display well. Therefore, 34401 and similar ones with such a display are not suitable for me. Other options with LCD 6.5 were beyond my budget. I purchased it for my Siglent equipment collection and it fully meets my tasks and goals and even more.
I'm not a fan of Siglent, but their availability captivates me and it so happens that I have a lot of their products. I have been using all the devices for many years and they cover my tasks and low requirements.
To check, I will need a standard with a marked actual voltage of 7.5-8.5 digits. The LM399 scarf I ordered from Amazon turned out to be a fake (yes, I love excitement :D).
I would like to purchase a proven standard. Can you tell me where I can buy it in Germany (for a reasonable price <100)? Unfortunately, ADR/LM demo boards are not measured or marked on Mouser :(
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Under 100 E you can't find a proper reference for a 6,5 digit DMM. DMMCheck Plus & co is good for 4,5 maybe 5,5 but not for 6.5. Even PDVS2 (which is 427E) is at limit for such a dmm.
About the value you see on display (000.0032mV) you should not worry. KS43465A and DMM 6500 show a similar value with short input.
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Ooh, it occurred to me that I don't necessarily need a labeled voltage standard. To measure the drift of devices, I essentially need to make (or buy a DevBoard) with a known low drift and focus on the relative deviations in the measurements. In this case, a good option would be either open source LTZ1000 or ADR1000(1) or a devboard based on them. What do you guys think about this?
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A LTZ1000 or ADR1000 ref. may already be a bit overkill. The ADR 1000 seems to be very low noise, but the drift could be a bit of a weak point. One may still get away with a well aged LM399 or ADR1399 based reference. Usually these don't drift very much when they are not running. One should still first run them for a few weeks 24/7 to stabilize.
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The curve shown looks like the warm up drift. some 25 ppm of change during warm up is not good, but also not that bad (e.g. 1.5 ppm/K and 16 K temperature rise). This number will likely scatter between units some are better and some may be worse. So the comparison with just 1 sample each gives not that much information.
It is still true, that from the construction the SDM3065 (and similar meters with a ADC chip and LM399 ref.) are a bit more prone to drift. The more problematic part of this is not the warm up part, but the long term (e.g. years) drift from aging.
As long that the others say and show that their 3065X meters does not show this behavior it seem to be an issue don't you think? I don't see that as a normal behavior for a 6.5 digit DMM.
L.E. Especially that it was calibrated and adjusted by Siglent. They should see that and fix it or at least tell me about. But they tell me "We have repaired your meter".
I remember your argument now. I like Siglent gear, but if you weren't too lazy to look, you'd see I also point out when Siglent has a problem with something. The difference is, I make sure they fix it properly, and I make sure there's actually a problem with the device, and not the operator first. 😉
Anyway, we did already discuss this. You complained that you didn't want to let the meter properly warm up, and that's ridiculous. You can't make claims about a device's drift without first following the warmup time specified. Which is a minimum of an hour! And if you look at your chart, it stabilizes after an hour. Somebody else said it needs 4 hours before it's truly stable, but I've found an hour is fine with mine. You ignore this and complain anyway. If you don't follow the guidelines on the datasheet, don't complain about the specs on the datasheet either.
It's great that your meters that cost twice as much or more than your Siglent don't need much warmup time at all. That's awesome. If I could afford one, I would get the next generation of whatever Keithley releases. You can't take the datasheet from one device from one brand, and say another device from another brand sucks because it doesn't meet those specs. 🙄
In my attached tests, I did a proper warmup first. I would love to see you do a warmup first and then test your meter, and I've requested this before, but you didn't care. That's fine, you don't have to...but then the problem isn't proven to be with your device.
As pointed out by Doug, who sells the VREF10-001, my 3065 was good enough to show the drift of the reference itself accurately.
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Ok. I'll repeat. Again and again ... for you :)
The problem is that if I leave it to warm-up it is out of specs. No it will not stabilize. After 3 hours see below pic (Ref Voltage is 1.000007), it still drift even if more slowly.
And the fact that your meter does work ok and stabilize after warm-up just show that mine has an issue. This is why I'm saying about the gambling.
That wasn't fixed or even signaled to me by Siglent when it was to them.
Datasheet: Yes you can compare the datasheet from other brands when the values claimed to be the same or better in case of Siglent.
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well if you put if far from the others, does it stabilize ?
some of them may or have a fan on the rear or on the side ... it could negate the warm up to some extend, i was never found of stacking things like this
each item of mine has a separated box / enclosure for them, they don't share air volume or affect the other if i may say
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Ok. I'll repeat. Again and again ... for you :)
The problem is that if I leave it to warm-up it is out of specs. No it will not stabilize. After 3 hours see below pic (Ref Voltage is 1.000007), it still drift even if more slowly.
And the fact that your meter does work ok and stabilize after warm-up just show that mine has an issue. This is why I'm saying about the gambling.
That wasn't fixed or even signaled to me by Siglent when it was to them.
Datasheet: Yes you can compare the datasheet from other brands when the values claimed to be the same or better in case of Siglent.
Thank you. 😉
Here's the thing though, that's a single picture. It doesn't tell me anything about drift. It tells me that the measurement of one meter is different than the other meters.
It not being the same shows there's a difference in accuracy, but a single measurement doesn't tell me anything about drift.
I'll assume your reference is perfectly accurate and stable at 1.000007. I agree, your Siglent has the worst accuracy of the 3 meters based on that assumption. Is that out of spec though? Since I was clearly bad at calculating that previously, let's quote:
100.0000% - .0040% = 99.9960% or 0.999960. 4 nines. The lower threshold would be 10V x 0.999960 = 9.99960V.
10.000007 x 0.99996 = 9.99960699972. Your post-warmup test is within spec, despite being the least accurate of the 3 meters.
After 3 hours warmup, does that less accurate meter stabilize within stated specs, or does it continue to drift? That's the remaining question.
Thanks,
Josh
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each item of mine has a separated box / enclosure for them, they don't share air volume or affect the other if i may say
I fully agree with that in theory, and keep all my meters separated, but I think the Siglent is probably the least affected by this as they all use side fans. I don't know which side the DMM6500 exhausts, but if it exhausts to the left, maybe that's affecting the 34465A. 🤷
The Siglent exhausts to the right.
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well if you put if far from the others, does it stabilize ?
some of them may or have a fan on the rear or on the side ... it could negate the warm up to some extend, i was never found of stacking things like this
each item of mine has a separated box / enclosure for them, they don't share air volume or affect the other if i may say
No, it won't stabilize. There was years where it was my single benchmeter and it was in different rooms / places.
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No, it won't stabilize. There was years where it was my single benchmeter and it was in different rooms / places.
Well, if you're ever bored enough, I'd love to see a drift test chart in TestController (and the advanced readout) after it's had a few hours warmup.
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Ok. I'll repeat. Again and again ... for you :)
The problem is that if I leave it to warm-up it is out of specs. No it will not stabilize. After 3 hours see below pic (Ref Voltage is 1.000007), it still drift even if more slowly.
And the fact that your meter does work ok and stabilize after warm-up just show that mine has an issue. This is why I'm saying about the gambling.
That wasn't fixed or even signaled to me by Siglent when it was to them.
Datasheet: Yes you can compare the datasheet from other brands when the values claimed to be the same or better in case of Siglent.
Thank you. 😉
Here's the thing though, that's a single picture. It doesn't tell me anything about drift. It tells me that the measurement of one meter is different than the other meters.
It not being the same shows there's a difference in accuracy, but a single measurement doesn't tell me anything about drift.
I'll assume your reference is perfectly accurate and stable at 1.000007. I agree, your Siglent has the worst accuracy of the 3 meters based on that assumption. Is that out of spec though? Since I was clearly bad at calculating that previously, let's quote:
100.0000% - .0040% = 99.9960% or 0.999960. 4 nines. The lower threshold would be 10V x 0.999960 = 9.99960V.
10.000007 x 0.99996 = 9.99960699972. Your post-warmup test is within spec, despite being the least accurate of the 3 meters.
After 3 hours warmup, does that less accurate meter stabilize within stated specs, or does it continue to drift? That's the remaining question.
Thanks,
Josh
About 3-4 hours it seem to stop drifting.
Yes a picture can't tell about drift but will be more clear if I tell you that it started from 1.000002 and reach 0.999979.
Also I am not sure if this math is correct because the range of Siglent is 200 mV and it has 2200000 counts.
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We are guilty of stacking instruments one on top the other and side by side, not good practice but we have very limited space available.
Talk about warm up time, the old HP/AG34401s take many hours. We just replaced the fading display in the old HP34401 (type with all red terminals) and waited a couple hours for the AG34401A and HP34401A to agree. These don't have fans which has good and bad connotations :o
Best,
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Well, if you're ever bored enough, I'd love to see a drift test chart in TestController (and the advanced readout) after it's had a few hours warmup.
There is no warm-up time specified in manual. In service they calibrated the dmm after 90 min.
In that interval the dmm continue to drift. I didn't see anywhere a 3-4 hour period for warm-up. This will be stupid.
Again the fact that your dmm stabilize after a resonable period show that my dmm has an issue.
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We are guilty of stacking instruments one on top the other and side by side, not good practice but we have very limited space available.
Talk about warm up time, the old HP/AG34401s take many hours. We just replaced the fading display in the old HP34401 (type with all red terminals) and waited a couple hours for the AG34401A and HP34401A to agree. These don't have fans which has good and bad connotations :o
Best,
Nice! A real lab!
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About 3-4 hours it seem to stop drifting.
Yes a picture can't tell about drift but will be more clear if I tell you that it started from 1.000002 and reach 0.999979.
Also I am not sure if this math is correct because the range of Siglent is 200 mV and it has 2200000 counts.
IIRC, I think it was defpom that said 4 hours was best for the 3065.
The math is correct, each range has a specific accuracy stated in the datasheet.
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Well, if you're ever bored enough, I'd love to see a drift test chart in TestController (and the advanced readout) after it's had a few hours warmup.
There is no warm-up time specified in manual. In service they calibrated the dmm after 90 min.
In that interval the dmm continue to drift. I didn't see anywhere a 3-4 hour period for warm-up. This will be stupid.
Again the fact that your dmm stabilize after a resonable period show that my dmm has an issue.
The datasheet states 90-minute warmup time.
Maybe waiting 4 hours is stupid, but if it works, it works. Many labs don't shut their bench DMMs off at all.
I agree, my 3065X is likely better than yours, but yours appears to meet accuracy specs. Only a drift test after a minimum of 90 minutes will show whether it meets drift requirements.
For the sake of experimenting, it would be nice to see your potentially faulty meter with a drift test performed after 90 minutes, and again after 4 hours warmup.
Thanks,
Josh
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We left our SDM3065X powered on for weeks and months 24/7 when we got it, sometimes still leave it on for long periods. This is/was to help "age" the un-aged LM399 used as a reference. KS/AG/HP and Keithley used aged references which helps with the better initial long term stability.
Best
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We left our SDM3065X powered on for weeks and months 24/7 when we got it, sometimes still leave it on for long periods. This is/was to help "age" the un-aged LM399 used as a reference. KS/AG/HP and Keithley used aged references which helps with the better initial long term stability.
Best
I've done in the first year, but mine even after 6 years still has a drift that cancel his precision.
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We left our SDM3065X powered on for weeks and months 24/7 when we got it, sometimes still leave it on for long periods. This is/was to help "age" the un-aged LM399 used as a reference. KS/AG/HP and Keithley used aged references which helps with the better initial long term stability.
Best
I've done in the first year, but mine even after 6 years still has a drift that cancel his precision.
Well that does seem defective. If you have to "keep it" and without warranty support a "shot in the dark" would be to replace the LM399.
For ~$20 might be worth a gamble and maybe pre-age the new LM399 before installing. With Scotts calibration routine this maybe possible, however please take all this with a grain of salt, as we have no idea what this entails :o
Best
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Well that does seem defective. If you have to "keep it" and without warranty support a "shot in the dark" would be to replace the LM399.
For ~$20 might be worth a gamble and maybe pre-age the new LM399 before installing. With Scotts calibration routine this maybe possible, however please take all this with a grain of salt, as we have no idea what this entails :o
Best
Thank you mawyatt for your advice!
As I have the other two meters that works well, I think that Siglent will be available for this.
But I have to find good references,because the pre-aged LM399 that I found was pulled components that have pop-corn noise. Maybe is better to buy new from Digikey or Mouser and keep them powered for about 1 year.
Thanks!
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LM399 essentially all have popcorn noise:usually 2 levels some 3-4 µV aprart and jumping between them roughly on minute scale.
Unless there is more popcorn noise the pulled reference would be OK. It is likely already aged quite a bit.
If one wants better, one could consider an ADR1399. It needs a little more reference current (e.g. ~2 mA instead of ~ 1mA) and an RC element in parallel to the output.
The LM399 usually has a quite low TC. The main point here is the quality of the temperature regulation and thus not dependent on a trim. So the drift warm drift shown before is very likely not from the reference but more from other parts in the DMM: the divider from 7 to some 5 V for the ADC ref. and the divider from some 20 V to 5 V for the ADC.
With the SDM3065 the 2 V range may actually be the more stable one. It may be worth to check the warm up drift also for the 2 V range.
One could also bring out the 7 V ref. voltage and just check its drift directly.
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While I'm waiting for the ADR1399 demo board, a question arose regarding self-calibration. If you take an ADR1399 board and, using a resistive divider and stable resistors, measure the voltages and write them down. Then manipulate the meter. And calibrate and measure using the same board using preliminary data. Is it possible to do this?
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For ~$20 might be worth a gamble and maybe pre-age the new LM399 before installing. With Scotts calibration routine this maybe possible, however please take all this with a grain of salt, as we have no idea what this entails :o
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Since the LM399 isn't single-handedly responsible for generating the reference voltage -- usually, there's at least one OPAMP and several low TC resistors involved as well -- I would take a closer look at the whole reference section before taking invasive action.
Using one of your more stable meters in high input impedance DCV mode, you may want to have a look at the voltage directly across the LM339 to find out if this is already drifting. You may also want to check a series resistor (if there is any) to look for stability of the reference current. As far as I experienced, the LM399's are quite reliable components -- either they work or they don't (rarely). The problem may also relate from anywhere between the LM399 and the ADC. Maybe even a component in the signal path can lead to the observed problem. The trouble is that the measurements take so long everytime, so a proper diagnostics takes a lot of time and discipline. Hence, it's questionable if going through this effort makes sense.
Anyway, Siglent sould have taken your complaint more seriously and just replaced your instrument. Actually, in a case like this, and knowing the way those companies' service departments usually work, I might have felt the urge to introduce some "more obvious" problem in the instrument during the warranty time in order to "convince" the manufacturer that a replacement is the best option... >:D
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For ~$20 might be worth a gamble and maybe pre-age the new LM399 before installing. With Scotts calibration routine this maybe possible, however please take all this with a grain of salt, as we have no idea what this entails :o
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Since the LM399 isn't single-handedly responsible for generating the reference voltage -- usually, there's at least one OPAMP and several low TC resistors involved as well -- I would take a closer look at the whole reference section before taking invasive action.
Using one of your more stable meters in high input impedance DCV mode, you may want to have a look at the voltage directly across the LM339 to find out if this is already drifting. You may also want to check a series resistor (if there is any) to look for stability of the reference current. As far as I experienced, the LM399's are quite reliable components -- either they work or they don't (rarely). The problem may also relate from anywhere between the LM399 and the ADC. Maybe even a component in the signal path can lead to the observed problem. The trouble is that the measurements take so long everytime, so a proper diagnostics takes a lot of time and discipline. Hence, it's questionable if going through this effort makes sense.
Anyway, Siglent sould have taken your complaint more seriously and just replaced your instrument. Actually, in a case like this, and knowing the way those companies' service departments usually work, I might have felt the urge to introduce some "more obvious" problem in the instrument during the warranty time in order to "convince" the manufacturer that a replacement is the best option... >:D
Thank you! Indeed I'm aware of the complexity of the reference stage and without pick-up the schematic from the board and analyze before I wouldn't start.
About the Siglent, it was nice if they at least tell me that it has an issue with some drift observed by them.
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While I'm waiting for the ADR1399 demo board, a question arose regarding self-calibration. If you take an ADR1399 board and, using a resistive divider and stable resistors, measure the voltages and write them down. Then manipulate the meter. And calibrate and measure using the same board using preliminary data. Is it possible to do this?
You said that just acquired the meter. If it's new it should not need any calibration. Do you have any suspicion about accuracy?
Even if you use an ADR1399 board(or any other non labeled/calibrated board) it must be calibrated with a calibrated meter first (7.5-8.5 digit recomended).
To check for drift you can use TestController.
To check for the accuracy you can use the Excell calculator from R&S(attached).
Regards,
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About the Siglent, it was nice if they at least tell me that it has an issue with some drift observed by them.
If they had noticed it.
After the warm-up phase, the Fluke calibrator is connected and if the values are within the tolerance range, the device is fine.
How long will it take, an hour, two hours...
If you have noticed a drift over a longer period of time that falls outside the tolerance range, then I would complain about the device accordingly.
However, if the meter stays within the range, unfortunately it's bad luck, then yours just drifts more than others.
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About the Siglent, it was nice if they at least tell me that it has an issue with some drift observed by them.
If they had noticed it.
After the warm-up phase, the Fluke calibrator is connected and if the values are within the tolerance range, the device is fine.
How long will it take, an hour, two hours...
If you have noticed a drift over a longer period of time that falls outside the tolerance range, then I would complain about the device accordingly.
However, if the meter stays within the range, unfortunately it's bad luck, then yours just drifts more than others.
Also if I had known that is an automatic procedure, I would have asked specifically, but i believed that they will check given the request : calibration and adjustment.
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Stability test video - SDM3065 and other
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6GmrZOACoI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6GmrZOACoI)
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For the price of the Keithley, you could buy 2 SDM3065Xs, one of them being the SDM3065X-SC. That's why I don't have a Keithley.
I definitely want a DMM with a scanner card. 2 bench DMMs isn't enough for me, and I don't think 3 will be enough either. 😉
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With Keythley DMM 6500 you can can have a scan card for about 50-80 $.
This is mine.
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I definitely want a DMM with a scanner card. 2 bench DMMs isn't enough for me, and I don't think 3 will be enough either. 😉
I still have a Yokogawa MV202 here, with 20 isolated channels each. ;)
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I definitely want a DMM with a scanner card. 2 bench DMMs isn't enough for me, and I don't think 3 will be enough either. 😉
I still have a Yokogawa MV202 here, with 20 isolated channels each. ;)
Is that the correct model number? google wouldn't show me anything.
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Pardon, MV220...
https://www.ebay.de/itm/115342146666 (https://www.ebay.de/itm/115342146666)
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Does that data logger have DMM functions? I want the scanner card to setup multiple voltage test points with a single DMM.
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With the successor model (MV2000), we record voltages and temperatures, which can be displayed numerically or graphically.
We use the device for multi-day burn-in tests or heatrun tests.
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I'm considering getting an SDM3065X-SC, and if I do, I want to make a simpler version of pipe2null's breakout box (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3070270/#msg3070270).
Is it possible to use similar OLED's to what he used specifically for showing DC voltages on each external channel? Or will that have a negative effect on accuracy or something else annoying?
If it's not a big issue, then does anybody have a recommendation for displays?
ETA: Another question: is there any reason to not shield the enclosure for the breakout?
Thanks,
Josh
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An extra display would be more to the outside of the DMM. It would be a rather separate project, more like a Raspberry doing logging via the LAN / RS232 interface. So the display choice would follow the computer used for logging.
The displays in the pipe2null case are for extra power supplies, not the meter reading.
There would be nothing wrong with also shielding (e.g. connected to the case) the break out box. With so many terminals it is is the question if the classic 4 mm plugs are the right choice - smaller connector(s) or screw terminals could be more suitable. The maximum voltage of the SC version is anyway limited.
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Thanks, that's an interesting idea to setup logging via LAN with a dedicated screen on a breakout box. Certainly more realistic than having voltmeter displays that are accurate and small enough to be built in.
Looks like 2 projects indeed. 😉
Thanks,
Josh
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Back to the drift issue mentioned, my testing showed that you need at least 4 hours in a 23 degree C temperature controlled room to get the 3065X stabilised to an acceptable level (still a very small amount of drift) if I was doing something like trying to calibrate the meter I left it overnight so it was on for 8 hours, then it was even better and in my opinion fully stabilised.
The environment absolutely plays a part in the stability of these units, if there is other equipment nearby heating the air that the meter is sucking in, it will cause more drift, they are sensitive to the ambient environment, especially if you are getting down to the uV levels of measurement, if the room is not temperature controlled then the meter will also drift because of the ambient temperature changing throughout the day.
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This is normal behavior for precision measuring instruments.
You have to find a point for yourself where you don't mentally drift away, with all the drifting. ;)
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Damn it. I'm glad I read the datasheet first- the scanner card can't do more than 110VDC per channel. Oh well. Guess I'll probably need to save some money and get another regular bench DMM. 🤷
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I'm glad I read the datasheet first- the scanner card can't do more than 110VDC per channel.
A small note: the scanner board is directly connected to the Signal Input Terminals ("200V Max" and "1000V Max").
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I'm glad I read the datasheet first- the scanner card can't do more than 110VDC per channel.
A small note: the scanner board is directly connected to the Signal Input Terminals ("200V Max" and "1000V Max").
Yet note the small clearances on its inputs:
(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Picture/Product/SDM3065X/Scanner.png)
There is good reason the recommend input voltages are rated as such.....
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The scanner card looks simple enough that you could design your own version with less channels but better rated relays/connectors and greater clearances...
If I didn't already have 3 x Agilent 34970A and 1 x 34972A (and a bunch of modules) then I'd likely buy an SDM3065-SC...
I don't think I have ever measured anything over 100V with my DAQ/DMM mainframes, let alone the 34901A 300V rating.
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Looking forward buying the SDM3065X (w/o SC Option as i dont need it). Anything special i should be totally aware of? Any nice modifications like "give the reference some cotton-shield" or whatnot? Or should i wait for the new "6 1/2 gen"?
Another option would be some company / person who would align and test/calibrate my old solartron 7 1/2 digit DMM :D It does for sure need alignment, i've tested the unit with known references like DMMcheck etc pp and it's a bit out of spec. Sadly it does not have "artifact calibration" or whatever it's called and needs for every-single-range a specific value.
While reading some posts in this thread, i was wondering about the update process. It's not like ... load the latest firmware and go for it? Does it need to be in "order"?
Thanks in advance.
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The scanner card looks simple enough that you could design your own version with less channels but better rated relays/connectors and greater clearances...
That would be a fun. If the regular version supported the SC, then it would be a great project. Since it doesn't, I would need to find a crazy deal on a used SC model, which could eventually happen...but since I only need 3 meters, 1 more meter will do the trick anyway.
However, since it's a potentially fun project, it might be interesting to make the project both for a more robust SC, and also for conversion of a normal SDM to an SC version.
Does anybody have a scanner card they can share super detailed pictures of? Also images of the inside of the SC model for the missing hardware and other connections?
Thanks,
Josh
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Looking forward buying the SDM3065X (w/o SC Option as i dont need it). Anything special i should be totally aware of? Any nice modifications like "give the reference some cotton-shield" or whatnot? Or should i wait for the new "6 1/2 gen"?
Let the meter run for many hours (500 or more) to age the reference a little. Also review previous posts discussing warmup time. It's a great meter, which is why I want a couple more. 😉
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The scanner card looks simple enough that you could design your own version with less channels but better rated relays/connectors and greater clearances...
If you're unlucky, that won't help.
According to the SC1016 data sheet, the maximum available voltage range is 200V.
It is not entirely unlikely that everything above 200V will then be displayed as an OL.
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If you're unlucky, that won't help.
According to the SC1016 data sheet, the maximum available voltage range is 200V.
It is not entirely unlikely that everything above 200V will then be displayed as an OL.
You're right, it's probably a pointless endeavor. I asked a rep for the schematic (knowing the answer would be a fast no), and he said: "The schematics and the control logic for channel input selection are considered proprietary and not made available."
I doubt it would be terribly hard to reverse engineer the SC board, but if the end result is an OL, certainly not worth it.
Anyway, I'll probably have one next week to take a closer look at. 😉
Thanks,
Josh
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If you're unlucky, that won't help.
According to the SC1016 data sheet, the maximum available voltage range is 200V.
It is not entirely unlikely that everything above 200V will then be displayed as an OL.
I had not considered that the firmware might limit range selection when using the SC.
There might be a limit placed by the module plug-in connector clearances.
I am pretty sure there are internal photos on one of the SDM topics here showing the additions for the SC model.
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Anyway, I'll probably have one next week to take a closer look at. 😉
Hmmm... if that is the case, let me know how I can make a small donation to the Josh SC reverse engineering fund.
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Minimum donations are $5000 USD. :-DD
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Minimum donations are $5000 USD. :-DD
LOL. OK, I'll just buy my own SDM3065X-SC. Would be my first bit of Siglent gear. I also have an SDG2082X in my shopping cart. :scared:
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Minimum donations are $5000 USD. :-DD
LOL. OK, I'll just buy my own SDM3065X-SC. Would be my first bit of Siglent gear. I also have an SDG2082X in my shopping cart. :scared:
For $5k, you should be able to buy 5. 😉
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Don't waste time trying to reverse engineer this upgrade, it can't be done. The standard SDM3065X doesn't have the interface components installed which is what makes it a factory only option selected when you purchase it.
Oh yeah, the other point I needed to make is that the voltage reference is fully warmed up and stable some 6 seconds before the meter has finished booting up. There's no benefit to be had in covering it with extra insulation.
The remaining drift is simply due to the time needed for the rest of the mainboard components to stabilise some 3 or 4 degrees above the current ambient temperature. That "noisy" cooling fan ensures a relatively fast warm up ( in my experience, little more than 20 minutes for the LSD to settle to within a a couple of adjacent values of the ultimate standstill value reached about half an hour later).
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Pics I´ve made from the reference.
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Don't waste time trying to reverse engineer this upgrade, it can't be done. The standard SDM3065X doesn't have the interface components installed which is what makes it a factory only option selected when you purchase it.
It probably can be done. Not having a few minor parts and a mount isn't an issue if you have an SC model to reference what parts are needed. I think that would be the easy part of making the upgrade. The card itself, the limitations of the firmware/interface, and the switching scheme might be slightly trickier than my skills, but I'm sure somebody could figure that out.
I won't likely spend any time on it now that I have a Keithley on the way with the specs I need.
Thanks,
Josh
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Here's a 3-hour test comparing the DAQ6510 (same analog board as DMM6500) and my SDM3065X. Both had hours of warmup time. Both were set to 10PLC. Everything I could set the same, I did.
The Siglent appeared more stable*, but also more susceptible to environmental change. By the end of the test, my office wasn't just colder, the humidity dropped to 26%. Gross.
The DAQ was less susceptible to environmental change, but was slightly further off from the expected ref value.
Last cal for the DAQ6510 was in April 2024. SDM3065X was September 2023.
Overall, neither of them suck. 😉
Thanks,
Josh
*I found the setting, the DAQ was sampling too fast. I'll eventually do another test with the slower sample rate.
ETA: The SDM3065X is my loudest DMM. The DAQ is much quieter.
-
Here's a weird bug on the SDM3065X:
Condition: Continuity mode with screensaver active for extended period.
Action: Press key to wake screen (not sure if specific key matters).
Result: Beeper stops working, but still display correct value on screen.
Fix: Adjust Threshold value (up or down and back to same value will work), or power cycle. Nothing else works to remedy it (including deactivating/reactivating beeper or changing volume level).
Firmware V3.01.01.12R1.
Thanks,
Josh
-
I just got the SDM3065X-SC, and the FW loaded on it is 3.02.01.13. I can't find any info on their site. Has anyone seen any release notes for this? The latest one Siglent has on their site is V3.01.01.12R1
-
Re: Siglent SDM3065X - Firmware is current @ V3.01.01.12R1
Original Post
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4144669/#msg4144669 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4144669/#msg4144669)
Beginning at Page 46 @ Post #1134
Ending at Page 47 @ Post #1152
I would like to (finally) address my units low buzzer volume. I have found a convenient mounting location, on the faceplate. I want to discuss 1) any consequences of using that location and, 2) if there are no problems with using the location, how best to wire the buzzer.
Location
I have discovered that there is a sixth meter probe hole, in the front, metal, face bracket. It is below the black, LoSense Probe Hole and to the left of the Red, 10A RMS Probe Hole. See picture. This hole is perfectly sized to accommodate the buzzer. I have not removed the face bracket, yet, but it appears that there may be space to tuck the buzzer in between the front of the metal, face bracket and the back of the plastic front panel.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2501137)
Note: The hole in the metal, face bracket is covered by a very thin shim of black plastic. I confirmed the hole's location, by shining a flashlight through the plastic faceplate.
Accommodations
A hole would need to be opened in the plastic faceplate. For appearance sake, I recommend only making the opening the size of the small hole that is on the top of the buzzer. I don't think a larger hole in the faceplate will make the buzzer louder, because the hole in the top of the buzzer is the limiting factor.
Wiring
I am concerned with this hack introducing noise into the case. So, I am considering the following method of wiring...
Common copper solder wire wick is woven in the shape of a tube. I would use it to create a shielded wire loom in which to run a twisted pair of wire, for the buzzer. The wire loom would be grounded to the case/Earth GND. Care would be taken to not ground it to Circuit GND. I will cover the loom with heat shrink, as well.
There appears to be room to attach the loom to the side of the case. However, it will have to be routed under the fan housing. There is space to do this, as the PCB is cut out, under the fan.
Attachment
I would simply glue the buzzer to the metal, face bracket. I prefer a product called Shoe Goo.
I apologize for the lack of case pictures. Health problems prevent that effort, presently.
I look forward to your thoughts and suggestions. Thank you for your help.
EDIT:
I am moving this topic out of the Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X thread, in the hopes that it will make the information easier to be found and to be followed.
Please join us, at the new thread!
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3065x-low-buzzer-volume-repairhack-attempt/new/#new (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3065x-low-buzzer-volume-repairhack-attempt/new/#new)
-
tautech shared these thoughts:
"Use a audio twin coax for the buzzer cable.
Maybe just gluing the buzzer to the front panel and nothing else will increase its volume."
@ tautech
I found a nice space, between the plastic faceplate and the metal, face bracket. I put these details in the post, above, so you will need to read that post, again.
Great ideas! Thank you!
t1d
The coax shield would be tied to Earth Ground, not Circuit Ground; correct?
-
You might also consider a replacement/new buzzer, maybe one with a louder output.
Dunno anything about these things but other members will have some ideas.
-
At 10PLC measuring VDC the SDM3065X does 6 readings per second here in the US. Is there also some sort of filtering/averaging besides that? Or is it just a delay between readings?
Thanks,
Josh
-
At 10PLC measuring VDC the SDM3065X does 6 readings per second here in the US. Is there also some sort of filtering/averaging besides that? Or is it just a delay between readings?
Thanks,
Josh
ADC is averaging for 10NPLC, pushes result out, rinse and repeat.
It is not quick measure, pause, measure, pause...
-
At 10PLC measuring VDC the SDM3065X does 6 readings per second here in the US. Is there also some sort of filtering/averaging besides that? Or is it just a delay between readings?
Thanks,
Josh
ADC is averaging for 10NPLC, pushes result out, rinse and repeat.
It is not quick measure, pause, measure, pause...
Interesting. Keithley and Keysight both offer additional averaging on top of the PLC, so I was curious if there's something else going on there.
I have the extra averaging off for the attached test. It was interesting watching the Keysight/Siglent compete for biggest PP. 😉
-
With KS34465A you can get an additional digit with Math Function MX + B in the display.
Best
-
With KS34465A you can get an additional digit with Math Function MX + B in the display.
Best
Keithley also do this.
Also Keysight can be "determined" to display 7,5 digit.
But as a professional said here on the forum, we can trust only the numbers that manufacturer warrant for them in the specifications. The rest is "uncertainty fog".
-
With KS34465A you can get an additional digit with Math Function MX + B in the display.
Best
Keithley also do this.
Also Keysight can be "determined" to display 7,5 digit.
But as a professional said here on the forum, we can trust only the numbers that manufacturer warrant for them in the specifications. The rest is "uncertainty fog".
Yes, the DMM6500 has the MX + B Math feature.
Did not know that the KS34465A Digit Mask had 7 1/2 digit selection. Ours don't show this. Is this a select option or something with the newer firmware?
Agree, these "Extra Digits" don't convey much is absolute terms, and are often just a "Random Number" but can help with direct comparisons or relative measurements.
Best
-
...
Ours don't show this. Is this a select option or something with the newer firmware?
...
I didn't done myself this mod, someone did this for me. The firmware must be unpacked enable the option (the fw. is common for 6.5 and 7.5 models), and repacked.
-
While fun, and I would certainly do it for that purpose, there isn't a lot of value in those extra digits...except maybe the Keithley. It's interesting to me how similar the Siglent and Keysight behave. I'll post a few more screenshots in the other thread.
-
If comparing different meters, one should have the same scale. It is confusing with different scales.
This thread is already long and about the Sigilent meters - so better keep the compare part out of this thread. Much is about different meters and the reference used.
-
... yeah, is somewhat confusing.
I think they want to signal that the result is math processed, I don't have an explanation about why they choose to display with X.
-
I just got the SDM3065X-SC, and the FW loaded on it is 3.02.01.13. I can't find any info on their site. Has anyone seen any release notes for this? The latest one Siglent has on their site is V3.01.01.12R1
Can confirm. Just received my new SDM3065X with firmware version 3.02.01.13. Weird that it is not on Siglent’s website.
-
I bought mine in April last year and the firmware was already 3.02.01.13. It will soon be a year.
-
It may well be that a change in the hardware, due to obsolescence or similar, triggered a change in the firmware.
However, this is only necessary for new production and was therefore not launched as an official update.
So my thoughts on this, I would leave it at that for now.
-
SDM3055. hw/sw on the first picture
Img 2 and 3 - temperature measurement with the only difference: REL button was pressed, but no reaction!
Img 3 and 4 - same type K thermocouple connected, and REL button works perfect
Also, I`ve got some strange readings (text and excel chart below) which looks a little bit strange, but I cannot reproduce this behavior now.
*idn?
Siglent Technologies,SDM3055,SDM35HBD7R1727,1.02.01.28
fetch?
+2.25929622E+01,+2.26003335E+01,+2.25975692E+01,+2.25929622E+01,+2.25948050E+01,+2.25938836E+01,+2.30929622E+01,+2.30929622E+01,+2.30948050E+01,+2.25957264E+01,+2.25920408E+01,+2.26012549E+01,+2.26067833E+01,+2.25994120E+01,+2.25994120E+01,+2.30975692E+01,+2.25938836E+01,+2.25948050E+01,+2.25975692E+01,+2.25994120E+01,+2.26030977E+01,+2.26058619E+01,+2.31040191E+01,+2.26030977E+01,+2.26030977E+01,+2.26067833E+01,+2.26021763E+01,+2.25957264E+01,+2.26003335E+01,+2.26067833E+01,+2.26049405E+01,+2.26113903E+01,+2.31123117E+01,+2.31169188E+01,+2.26178402E+01,+2.26104689E+01,+2.26049405E+01,+2.31067833E+01,+2.26067833E+01,+2.26049405E+01,+2.31067833E+01,+2.26104689E+01,+2.26169188E+01,+2.31187616E+01,+2.26169188E+01,+2.26132331E+01,+2.31104689E+01,+2.31113903E+01,+2.31104689E+01,+2.26095475E+01,+2.26104689E+01,+2.26132331E+01,+2.26113903E+01,+2.26077047E+01,+2.26030977E+01,+2.31021763E+01,+2.26030977E+01,+2.26067833E+01,+2.26067833E+01,+2.26058619E+01,+2.26058619E+01,+2.26049405E+01,+2.26113903E+01,+2.26086261E+01,+2.26067833E+01,+2.26095475E+01,+2.26077047E+01,+2.31086261E+01,+2.26141546E+01,+2.26159974E+01,+2.26123117E+01,+2.26077047E+01,+2.26095475E+01,+2.26132331E+01,+2.31150760E+01,+2.31141546E+01,+2.26058619E+01,+2.31123117E+01,+2.31169188E+01,+2.26159974E+01,+2.26150760E+01,+2.26058619E+01,+2.26003335E+01,+2.26086261E+01,+2.26077047E+01,+2.26040191E+01,+2.26058619E+01,+2.26086261E+01,+2.26086261E+01,+2.26086261E+01,+2.26040191E+01,+2.26058619E+01,+2.26021763E+01,+2.25994120E+01,+2.26040191E+01,+2.26021763E+01,+2.26030977E+01,+2.26030977E+01,+2.31049405E+01,+2.26012549E+01,+2.26049405E+01,+2.26049405E+01,+2.30984906E+01,+2.30984906E+01,+2.25984906E+01,+2.26012549E+01,+2.25984906E+01,+2.30938836E+01,+2.31003335E+01,+2.26040191E+01,+2.31021763E+01,+2.31012549E+01,+2.26049405E+01,+2.26021763E+01,+2.25975692E+01,+2.25948050E+01,+2.30966478E+01,+2.25984906E+01,+2.25994120E+01,+2.31049405E+01,+2.31077047E+01,+2.31058619E+01,+2.31040191E+01,+2.26040191E+01,+2.26030977E+01,+2.26021763E+01,+2.26021763E+01,+2.26058619E+01,+2.26058619E+01,+2.26058619E+01,+2.31104689E+01,+2.26123117E+01,+2.26095475E+01,+2.31095475E+01,+2.31077047E+01,+2.26086261E+01,+2.26104689E+01,+2.31058619E+01,+2.26049405E+01,+2.26049405E+01,+2.26021763E+01,+2.31049405E+01,+2.31077047E+01,+2.26049405E+01,+2.26095475E+01,+2.26077047E+01,+2.26003335E+01,+2.30994120E+01,+2.30994120E+01,+2.31003335E+01,+2.26086261E+01,+2.26095475E+01,+2.26030977E+01,+2.25948050E+01,+2.25957264E+01,+2.30938836E+01,+2.30938836E+01,+2.30948050E+01,+2.30948050E+01,+2.30975692E+01,+2.30966478E+01,+2.31003335E+01,+2.25975692E+01,+2.26003335E+01,+2.26003335E+01,+2.30957264E+01,+2.30892766E+01,+2.25920408E+01,+2.30957264E+01,+2.30938836E+01,+2.25938836E+01,+2.25892766E+01,+2.25938836E+01,+2.30883552E+01,+2.25865124E+01,+2.25837481E+01,+2.30911194E+01,+2.30901980E+01,+2.30883552E+01,+2.30920408E+01,+2.30948050E+01,+2.30994120E+01,+2.30929622E+01,+2.25920408E+01,+2.25883552E+01,+2.30920408E+01,+2.25966478E+01,+2.25957264E+01,+2.26012549E+01,+2.31030977E+01,+2.31003335E+01,+2.31040191E+01,+2.31021763E+01,+2.31049405E+01,+2.31003335E+01,+2.26021763E+01,+2.26012549E+01,+2.25984906E+01,+2.25984906E+01,+2.26030977E+01,+2.25984906E+01,+2.30975692E+01,+2.31030977E+01,+2.25938836E+01,+2.30883552E+01,+2.30948050E+01,+2.31003335E+01,+2.26003335E+01,+2.25975692E+01,+2.25994120E+01,+2.26003335E+01,+2.25994120E+01,+2.25966478E+01,+2.25920408E+01,+2.25948050E+01,+2.31012549E+01,+2.30984906E+01,+2.30938836E+01,+2.26012549E+01,+2.26021763E+01,+2.26012549E+01,+2.25957264E+01,+2.30948050E+01,+2.31040191E+01,+2.26095475E+01,+2.31067833E+01,+2.30994120E+01,+2.26040191E+01,+2.31077047E+01,+2.31067833E+01,+2.26104689E+01,+2.26132331E+01,+2.26113903E+01,+2.26095475E+01,+2.26086261E+01,+2.31150760E+01,+2.31113903E+01,+2.31030977E+01,+2.26040191E+01,+2.31030977E+01
-
SDM powered on at evening, and bug with temperature readings reappeared.
Again, I`ve got data via SCPI:
*idn?
Siglent Technologies,SDM3055,SDM35HBD7R1727,1.02.01.28
fetch?
+2.13961050E+01,+2.13970264E+01,+2.13951836E+01,+2.13924194E+01,+2.13933408E+01,+2.14016334E+01,+2.14034762E+01,+2.14025548E+01,+2.18961050E+01,+2.18868909E+01,+2.13896551E+01,+2.13905765E+01,+2.13896551E+01,+2.13951836E+01,+2.13961050E+01,+2.13868909E+01,+2.13841267E+01,+2.13887337E+01,+2.13896551E+01,+2.13850481E+01,+2.13887337E+01,+2.13914980E+01,+2.13914980E+01,+2.13924194E+01,+2.13905765E+01,+2.13887337E+01,+2.13859695E+01,+2.13878123E+01,+2.13896551E+01,+2.18878123E+01,+2.18832053E+01,+2.13868909E+01,+2.13868909E+01,+2.13868909E+01,+2.13942622E+01,+2.13914980E+01,+2.13924194E+01,+2.18859695E+01,+2.13804411E+01,+2.13767554E+01,+2.13868909E+01,+2.13878123E+01,+2.13859695E+01,+2.13896551E+01,+2.13841267E+01,+2.13813625E+01,+2.13758340E+01,+2.13795197E+01,+2.13822839E+01,+2.13914980E+01,+2.13832053E+01,+2.13693842E+01,+2.13730698E+01,+2.18832053E+01,+2.18832053E+01,+2.13776769E+01,+2.13749126E+01,+2.13804411E+01,+2.13813625E+01,+2.13859695E+01,+2.13822839E+01,+2.13749126E+01,+2.18739912E+01,+2.18758340E+01,+2.13776769E+01,+2.13767554E+01,+2.13785983E+01,+2.13776769E+01,+2.13776769E+01,+2.13785983E+01,+2.13785983E+01,+2.13776769E+01,+2.13749126E+01,+2.13749126E+01,+2.18758340E+01,+2.18813625E+01,+2.13795197E+01,+2.13758340E+01,+2.13703056E+01,+2.13721484E+01,+2.13712270E+01,+2.13758340E+01,+2.13795197E+01,+2.13693842E+01,+2.13693842E+01,+2.13666200E+01,+2.13656986E+01,+2.13749126E+01,+2.18776769E+01,+2.18703056E+01,+2.18656986E+01,+2.13638558E+01,+2.13675414E+01,+2.13675414E+01,+2.13666200E+01,+2.18721484E+01,+2.18758340E+01,+2.13684628E+01,+2.13693842E+01,+2.13712270E+01,+2.18656986E+01,+2.13721484E+01,+2.13675414E+01,+2.13656986E+01,+2.13721484E+01,+2.13739912E+01,+2.18703056E+01,+2.18656986E+01,+2.18620129E+01,+2.13656986E+01,+2.13647772E+01,+2.13656986E+01,+2.13610915E+01,+2.13583273E+01,+2.13610915E+01,+2.18629343E+01,+2.13647772E+01,+2.13656986E+01,+2.13656986E+01,+2.13601701E+01,+2.13620129E+01,+2.13647772E+01,+2.18620129E+01,+2.18675414E+01,+2.13601701E+01,+2.13583273E+01,+2.13574059E+01,+2.13574059E+01,+2.18546417E+01,+2.18527989E+01,+2.18500347E+01,+2.13509561E+01,+2.13574059E+01,+2.13564845E+01,+2.13537203E+01,+2.13564845E+01,+2.18537203E+01,+2.13564845E+01,+2.13527989E+01,+2.13555631E+01,+2.13546417E+01,+2.13527989E+01,+2.18601701E+01,+2.13583273E+01,+2.13500347E+01,+2.13509561E+01,+2.13481918E+01,+2.13491132E+01,+2.18546417E+01,+2.13509561E+01,+2.13527989E+01,+2.18555631E+01,+2.18537203E+01,+2.18481918E+01,+2.18546417E+01,+2.13574059E+01,+2.13527989E+01,+2.18426634E+01,+2.13463490E+01,+2.13592487E+01,+2.18555631E+01,+2.18481918E+01,+2.18417420E+01,+2.13371350E+01,+2.13362136E+01,+2.13518775E+01,+2.18546417E+01,+2.13509561E+01,+2.13417420E+01,+2.13491132E+01,+2.13509561E+01,+2.13472704E+01,+2.18463490E+01,+2.13472704E+01,+2.13472704E+01,+2.13463490E+01,+2.13454276E+01,+2.13491132E+01,+2.18472704E+01,+2.13463490E+01,+2.13481918E+01,+2.13445062E+01,+2.13426634E+01,+2.13426634E+01,+2.18380564E+01,+2.18472704E+01,+2.18445062E+01,+2.13417420E+01,+2.18435848E+01,+2.18398992E+01,+2.18389778E+01,+2.13417420E+01,+2.13398992E+01,+2.18380564E+01,+2.18426634E+01,+2.18389778E+01,+2.18362136E+01,+2.13352921E+01,+2.13398992E+01,+2.13426634E+01,+2.18389778E+01,+2.18343707E+01,+2.13371350E+01,+2.13408206E+01,+2.13417420E+01,+2.13352921E+01,+2.13362136E+01,+2.13389778E+01,+2.13408206E+01,+2.18352921E+01,+2.18352921E+01,+2.18316065E+01,+2.18325279E+01,+2.18362136E+01,+2.18398992E+01,+2.18334493E+01,+2.18352921E+01,+2.18352921E+01,+2.18306851E+01,+2.18297637E+01,+2.18288423E+01,+2.18288423E+01,+2.18288423E+01,+2.18269995E+01,+2.13269995E+01,+2.13260781E+01,+2.13251567E+01,+2.18269995E+01,+2.18279209E+01,+2.18325279E+01,+2.18306851E+01,+2.18251567E+01,+2.18279209E+01,+2.18306851E+01,+2.18316065E+01,+2.18325279E+01,+2.18297637E+01,+2.18251567E+01,+2.18288423E+01,+2.18297637E+01,+2.18196282E+01,+2.13187068E+01,+2.18205496E+01,+2.18233139E+01,+2.18288423E+01,+2.18325279E+01,+2.18297637E+01,+2.18242353E+01,+2.18214711E+01,+2.18260781E+01,+2.18269995E+01,+2.18260781E+01,+2.18251567E+01,+2.18187068E+01,+2.18260781E+01,+2.18260781E+01,+2.18168640E+01,+2.18196282E+01,+2.18168640E+01,+2.13196282E+01,+2.18214711E+01,+2.18223925E+01,+2.18177854E+01,+2.18251567E+01,+2.18279209E+01,+2.18214711E+01,+2.18242353E+01,+2.18168640E+01,+2.18168640E+01,+2.13196282E+01,+2.13205496E+01,+2.18168640E+01,+2.18177854E+01,+2.18177854E+01,+2.18223925E+01,+2.18223925E+01,+2.18214711E+01,+2.18205496E+01,+2.18242353E+01,+2.18214711E+01,+2.13177854E+01,+2.18205496E+01,+2.18205496E+01,+2.18196282E+01,+2.18233139E+01,+2.18140998E+01,+2.13187068E+01,+2.18150212E+01,+2.18122570E+01,+2.18150212E+01,+2.18113356E+01,+2.18122570E+01,+2.18140998E+01,+2.18168640E+01,+2.18196282E+01,+2.18104142E+01,+2.18085714E+01,+2.18113356E+01,+2.18150212E+01,+2.18104142E+01,+2.18159426E+01,+2.18122570E+01,+2.18140998E+01,+2.18177854E+01,+2.13140998E+01,+2.18104142E+01,+2.18067285E+01,+2.18048857E+01,+2.18067285E+01,+2.18094928E+01,+2.18104142E+01,+2.18104142E+01,+2.18104142E+01,+2.18076500E+01,+2.18058071E+01,+2.18094928E+01,+2.18113356E+01,+2.18067285E+01,+2.18021215E+01,+2.18048857E+01,+2.18067285E+01,+2.18085714E+01,+2.18076500E+01,+2.18039643E+01,+2.18048857E+01,+2.18094928E+01,+2.18039643E+01,+2.18021215E+01,+2.18085714E+01,+2.18076500E+01,+2.18002787E+01,+2.18076500E+01,+2.18085714E+01,+2.18067285E+01,+2.18058071E+01,+2.17984359E+01,+2.18012001E+01,+2.18058071E+01,+2.18002787E+01,+2.17965931E+01,+2.18012001E+01,+2.18058071E+01,+2.18048857E+01
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Looks like 2 values about 0.5 K separated. With a type K thermocouple this would be some 20 µV, or quite a bit. The steps are sharp and too fast to be a thermal contact problem.
It is possible that the problem is with the probe and not with the meter. The meter can not tell the difference between a probe at the cold junction temperature and a normal wire short. So one could use a normal short instead of the TC probe for a test.
Another way to test the probe would be to look at the restance of the probe in 2 wire mode. One possible failure mode for the probe is a bad contact. A good TC should show a reasonable stable resistance with no jumps if moved.
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Looks like 2 values about 0.5 K separated.
Exactly!
So one could use a normal short instead of the TC probe for a test.
I did such test. Short wire (~0.14Ω) shows me a ~25.0°C. But it can stay stable for around 1 hour, and then can suddenly start to jump to 0.5° up and back. It`s not so obvious when your are watching at numbers. But its clear when you looking at the chart.
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And here I am again, with the problem of not having relative temperature measurements. I found the Rel submenu under the Math button. And there, as you can see, you can set any voltage offset value, but this again does not work with temperature.
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HOT news!
The 🔥NEW🔥 6.5 Digit DMM from Siglent, here on the desk for full review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsjHRk-q2oU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsjHRk-q2oU)
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It looks cleaner from design perspective, DC, AC etc specs are virtually identical if i look right at SDM4065A_Datasheet_EN01A.pdf and SDM3065X_Datasheet_E03A.pdf . The new model comes with less NAND flash storage (256 MB New Model / 1 GB old model). Bigger, higher resolution touchscreen compared to the old less resolution, no touchy-touchy screen. Also more readings/sec in the new model, right?
So at the first glance, the new Siglent is ticking all the 'a bit new stuff, a bit old stuff mayhaps not upgradeworthy' boxes. Last year i was about to buy the (now old) model 3065X but after reading through this forum i changed my mind and bought the Keysight 6,5 digit one.
Annnyway, waiting for an affordable 7,5 oder 8,5 Siglent :P
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@tonyalbus
Since my own SDM3065X has always stabilised within half an hour of being powered up after an overnight shut down, your observation of an extremely protracted 4 hour warm up time with yours rather suggested that it must have a fault (slow running or failed cooling fan?).
However, after watching your warm up timings test video, I think the problem is quite likely to be blocked fan intake and exhaust ports due to it being tightly hemmed in all round by that rather tightly packed stack of test equipment.
May I kindly suggest you pull it out of the stack so that it has at least 50mm clearance either side of any obstructive surfaces, preferably clear of other localised heat source, and repeat another warm up test? This may well answer your question over its unusually long , out of specification (30 minutes according to the manual for my meter) warm up time.
Sorry for that erroneous information. I think I had that figure in mind from the DSO user guides. The SDM3065X user guide is rather remiss in this regard by failing to mention any warm up time requirement.
The only mention of any warm up time at all is in the data sheet in regard of calibration checks/adjustments where, understandably, they state that rather protracted 90 minute figure to ensure it'll be as stable as possible for such critical checks. Very likely based on the typical 30 minutes warm up time multiplied up by a factor of three to be triply sure its temperature is stable enough for such tests. :)
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Since my own SDM3065X...
...(30 minutes according to the manual for my meter) warm up time.
My SDM3065X is also stable within 30 minutes, but the datasheet states 90 minutes. My meters are all isolated with ~3cm clearance on either side.
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@KungFuJosh
Thanks for pointing out my mistaken, off the top of my head, warm up time figure. I've edited my post to correct that error. :-[
It just strikes me as rather curious, despite going into great detail in the user guide on setting it up to take measurements, that they left out the importance of warm up time. :o
I suppose if you treat it as 5 1/2 digit meter, the meter has instant warm up (the LM399 is fully stabilised with 6 seconds to spare on its 16 seconds boot up time). >:D
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It just strikes me as rather curious, despite going into great detail in the user guide on setting it up to take measurements, that they left out the importance of warm up time. :o
I suppose if you treat it as 5 1/2 digit meter, the meter has instant warm up (the LM399 is fully stabilised with 6 seconds to spare on its 16 seconds boot up time). >:D
I dunno. I think documentation gets weird with all brands one way or another. For certain info, you always have to look at the datasheet. I agree tho, it would be nice if useful info like that was included in other places it might be relevant.
I think it's cute that the quick start guide includes cleaning tips like "Wipe the external ash of the instrument and test leads by a soft rag." Where is this ash coming from?? 😉
It does make relevant reference to ventilation though:
Keep good ventilation.
Improper ventilation will cause the rise of the instrument’s temperature. Keep good ventilation
and check the vent and fan regularly when using it.
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I suppose if you treat it as 5 1/2 digit meter, the meter has instant warm up (the LM399 is fully stabilised with 6 seconds to spare on its 16 seconds boot up time). >:D
Instead of "fully stabilized", how long does it take before the meter is within it's published specifications?
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Now I wanted to control my SDM3065X via computer for the first time.... :-X 8)
So I installed NI-VISA 2025, I installed Easy DMM...
And I can't connect to the SDM.
I connected the meter via USB and Easy DMM finds something.
But somehow it won't go any further, it can't connect, or it says it's not the right device or that the address is bound...
What am I doing wrong? I just wanted to connect the meter to the computer, not make a science out of it. ;)
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Now I wanted to control my SDM3065X via computer for the first time.... :-X 8)
So I installed NI-VISA 2025, I installed Easy DMM...
And I can't connect to the SDM.
I connected the meter via USB and Easy DMM finds something.
But somehow it won't go any further, it can't connect, or it says it's not the right device or that the address is bound...
What am I doing wrong? I just wanted to connect the meter to the computer, not make a science out of it. ;)
Looking at your images...
You have installed the latest version, one few have played with yet EasyDMMX....
In the first image I see 2 copies of SDM3065X.... :-//
Hopefully I will find time today to update to EasyDMMX and have a play.
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Now I wanted to control my SDM3065X via computer for the first time.... :-X 8)
So I installed NI-VISA 2025, I installed Easy DMM...
And I can't connect to the SDM.
I connected the meter via USB and Easy DMM finds something.
But somehow it won't go any further, it can't connect, or it says it's not the right device or that the address is bound...
What am I doing wrong? I just wanted to connect the meter to the computer, not make a science out of it. ;)
Don't you have TestController? It's 1000x better than EasyDMM unless you need the screenshot function.
If you want EasyDMM v1 to work, you need to add your devices, and then change the MODE option to what you want it to do (MEASURE). If Mode isn't selected, it won't work.
If you want EasyDMM-X to work, I think you need to pray to gods from at least 5 different religions, and sacrifice something. 😉
I wonder if there will be a firmware update required for compatibility with EasyDMM-X.
ETA: Yup. Firmware upgrade required:
Device Requirement
This software is an upgraded version of EasyDMM, the 3000X series of host computer software, and is compatible with its main functions. This software also expands its functionality by adding support for the 4000A series.
3000X Series
3045X/3055X/3055X-E, Version 1.02.01.28 and above. 3065X, Version 3.02.01.13 and above
4000A系列
4055A/4065A, Version 0.0.0.13 and above
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Ah, good spotting Josh.....SDM3065X FW Version 3.02.01.13 is not available for download yet....
Email sent to Siglent....
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Ah, good spotting Josh.....SDM3065X FW Version 3.02.01.13 is not available for download yet....
Email sent to Siglent....
I'd love a new firmware.
Any idea if they have plans to separate range and limits for continuity testing? That would greatly improve the speed and usefulness.
For example, Keithley and Keysight default at 1kΩ Range and 10Ω limit (both adjustable on Keithley, neither adjustable on Keysight).
Siglent appears to keep both set with the same value under Threshold. Setting that to 1kΩ gives significant speed improvements. Separating those values would make the meter a contender.
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Thanks Josh and Rob,
In the meantime, I followed my gut feeling and installed the old version, and it works right away.
It's great that the explanation is already there when I return to the thread. ;)
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Don't you have TestController? It's 1000x better than EasyDMM unless you need the screenshot function.
I did, but it can't find the meter.
The whole East Tester mess was no problem. ;)
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Don't you have TestController? It's 1000x better than EasyDMM unless you need the screenshot function.
I did, but it can't find the meter.
The whole East Tester mess was no problem. ;)
TestController works great with it. I have mine set to LXI though, since it works better (for me at least) when too many similar devices are connected. If it's just one, it should work fine as socket or LXI.
One dumb trick for TestController, is to remove all the Devices in the Load devices screen. Then close TC. Make sure all of the devices you want to use with TC are then turned on, and not in Remote control yet. Then, when you run TC again, it should discover everything correctly.
You can also manually add things, but I found that to be the laziest way to get it done right. 😉
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Don't you have TestController? It's 1000x better than EasyDMM unless you need the screenshot function.
I did, but it can't find the meter.
The Testcontroller configuration file for SDM3065X supports ethernet / LXI connection, but does not support USB.....
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Aha...And it works immediately.
@Josh:
What are your settings for logging/chart display?
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Aha...And it works immediately.
@Josh:
What are your settings for logging/chart display?
When comparing multiple meters, for me, it's best to set the min/max range values manually to the range you're testing. Alternatively, you can set one meter as the master, but I don't like that method because it takes away the color coding on the chart.
My current settings are attached, and they show my three 6.5 digit meter ranges matched for VDC. The SDM3055X-E temp range was manually set to monitor temp drift while running those tests.
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And what logging interval time?
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And what logging interval time?
Doesn't matter. How much data do you want? .1, .3, .03, is usually what I choose from. If you're going to do a 10 hour test, even 1s is a ton of data.
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Everything seems to be working, now I just need to figure out how you got the single panel with the values to appear.
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Everything seems to be working, now I just need to figure out how you got the single panel with the values to appear.
Go to Popups -> Grid Panel.
Right-click the grid panel for selecting Advanced Readouts for each device you're tracking.
I also like to select the new option for "On Top" at the bottom so you don't lose the grid panel behind other windows.
Then right click each readout to select the meter you want it to monitor. You can also right click the readouts to customize the colors.
Right click the "Grid layout" on the bottom line to adjust the rows/columns.
After you have that how you like it, you can save it as a menu option to repeat the setup in the future:
Right-click the log window in the Commands tab, and see attached.
Also, check your email if you haven't seen it yet. 😉
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I let it run for an hour, allowing the 5V reference to warm up for 30 minutes beforehand. The initial value was 4.99977 and the final value was 4.99981, a variation of 40µV, which isn't bad.
@Josh:
I read your email, no, it doesn't work. ;)
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I let it run for an hour, allowing the 5V reference to warm up for 30 minutes beforehand. The initial value was 4.99977 and the final value was 4.99981, a variation of 40µV, which isn't bad.
@Josh:
I read your email, no, it doesn't work. ;)
Oops. I forgot to mention you should go to the "Current values" tab and right-click the Current [measurement] cell for the voltage. Select SI or SI with a set number of digits depending on what you want, and the data in the grid box will be more useful.
Check your email again. 😉
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I had a mishap with my SDM3045X the other day and with the help of some folks over on the Repair message board I'm trying to save it. The biggest problem right now is no reading on the OHMS function.
It was suggested I put a link here to my thread on the Repair board and ask for help. I'm a newbie here so I hope I'm doing that correctly.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/siglent-sdm3045x-input-damaged/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/siglent-sdm3045x-input-damaged/)
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You were asking multiple times in your thread to post detailed photos. You need to do that.
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You were asking multiple times in your thread to post detailed photos. You need to do that.
Cut the newbie some slack, posting pics on EEVblog is a little daunting for newcomers.
There's a good post with a link to a teardown with any # of excellent photos.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/siglent-sdm3045x-input-damaged/msg5899578/#msg5899578 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/siglent-sdm3045x-input-damaged/msg5899578/#msg5899578)
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There's a good post with a link to a teardown with any # of excellent photos.
However, these are not photos of his defective device, so they are of little use.
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You were asking multiple times in your thread to post detailed photos. You need to do that.
Cut the newbie some slack, posting pics on EEVblog is a little daunting for newcomers.
That seems like the kind of thing a newbie could ask for help with if they need to. 😉
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My SDM3055 and the new EasyDMM-X app..
The EasyDMM app has a larger resolution than my SDM3055 display 8)
[attachimg=1]
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SDM3055 Firmware 1.02.1.28
New 3 hour measurement with 5V voltage reference AD548KH. Room temperature 27.1 degrees Celsius
AD584KH Reference voltage
[attachimg=1]
Measurement..
[attachimg=2]
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It's not nearly as good as TestController, but still nice that you can use it with your 3055. The rest of the series still needs an unavailable firmware upgrade to use the new app.
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My SDM3055 and the new EasyDMM-X app..
The EasyDMM app has a larger resolution than my SDM3055 display 8)
Can I ask what version of NIVISA you have installed for the connectivity support ?
Full version or only the NIVISA Runtime package ?
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I think its this version.. on my win11 PC :-//
[attachimg=1]
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Very beautiful. Incredible space exploration.
It was about the same in the old version of the program. In the statistics mode, it was more noticeable by 1 digit. This adds nothing to the accura
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I think its this version.. on my win11 PC :-//
NI-VISA comes with a utility called VISA Interactive Control (VISAIC) as in your screenshot which implies a full NIVISA install is required.
Is that what you have ?
It matters as the full install is 500+MB and not everyone needs that bloat on their PC when previously all Siglent Easy*** SW only required the connectivity drivers from NIVISA Runtime, a much more friendly but still bloated ~120MB install.
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I think its this version.. on my win11 PC :-//
NI-VISA comes with a utility called VISA Interactive Control (VISAIC) as in your screenshot which implies a full NIVISA install is required.
Is that what you have ?
It matters as the full install is 500+MB and not everyone needs that bloat on their PC when previously all Siglent Easy*** SW only required the connectivity drivers from NIVISA Runtime, a much more friendly but still bloated ~120MB install.
He probably just installed the full package, which is not required. I have EasyDMM-X installed, and it communicates fine with only the driver package installed. Granted, it tells me the device is the wrong version because it needs newer firmware. If the VISA drivers didn't work, it wouldn't get that far.
Thanks,
Josh
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look
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Hello, everyone!
Just a short post to report the compatibility of Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX fan with the Siglent SDM3065x.
Also used the NA-RC10 attenuator included in the box.
Fan is dead silent from 1 meter away.
Attached some photos.
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Hello, everyone!
Just a short post to report the compatibility of Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX fan with the Siglent SDM3065x.
Also used the NA-RC10 attenuator included in the box.
Fan is dead silent from 1 meter away.
Attached some photos.
What are the stock fan specs/model number?
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Siglent DMM SDM3065x stock fan is the 13mm-wide Delta AFB0612LC: 3000rpm, 26.16 m³/h
Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX (25mm wide) in normal mode: 3000rpm, 29.2 m³/h
Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX with LNA NA-RC10: 2400rpm, 23,5 m³/h
SDM3065x applies the voltage in steps to the fan (starts at 9.5V), and I did not experience the voltage being raised during 48+ hours up-time with the Noctua in Low Noise mode.
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Hi guys!
A bad thought came to me again. Can I replace LM399 with ADR1399 in my SDM3065X?
1. Take the ADR1001 reference board and measure its voltage.
2. Replace LM399 with ADR1399 and replace some resistors with more stable ones.
3. Enter the previously obtained values into calibration (see point 1)
What do you say and what advice will you give?
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One could in principle replece the LM399 with an ADC1399 to get lower noise. However from what I have heard so far the SDM3065 is not that low in noise that it would really be sensible. There just was a thread on replacing the reference in an KS34465, where it makes a bit more sense.
It is not clear which resistors are relevant for the gain and there is also possible drift in the ADC gain. The actual resistor pair may already not be that bad and finding better one could be challanging.
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One could in principle replece the LM399 with an ADC1399 to get lower noise. However from what I have heard so far the SDM3065 is not that low in noise that it would really be sensible. There just was a thread on replacing the reference in an KS34465, where it makes a bit more sense.
It is not clear which resistors are relevant for the gain and there is also possible drift in the ADC gain. The actual resistor pair may already not be that bad and finding better one could be challanging.
You say these things about the SDM3065X a lot, and you have no experience with them it seems? I own both, and the Siglent is exceptionally similar to the KS34465A WRT noise and stability. Yes, the KS is slightly better, but not enough to warrant those statements, or the price difference for that matter. 😉
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Hmm, I probably won't get inside the meter for now.
Please tell me, when the device is plugged into a power outlet and the power LED is smoothly blinking, is the reference voltage on or off?
Do I need to turn it on for aging and stabilization or is it enough that it is connected to a power outlet?
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Hi guys!
A bad thought came to me again. Can I replace LM399 with ADR1399 in my SDM3065X?
1. Take the ADR1001 reference board and measure its voltage.
2. Replace LM399 with ADR1399 and replace some resistors with more stable ones.
3. Enter the previously obtained values into calibration (see point 1)
What do you say and what advice will you give?
Over the recent years we've acquired the SDM3065X and 3 KS34465As, a DMM6500 and DMQ6510, and a pair of 34401As and used them for various projects. All use pre-aged/selected LM399 references except the SDM3065X, which wasn't pre-aged and showed during the first 6 months of use (slow drift). It would be nice if the SDM3065X had a feature to keep the LM399 powered during standby, it doesn't, and none of the other DMMs have this feature we're aware of. Once the SDM3065X had a few kHrs (we left it Powered ON for months) it stabilized long term and behaves similar to the other DMMs we have, altho does need a longer to stabilize after Power ON (the new SDM4000 series addresses this initial Power ON drift and is better in that regard).
Note that the SDM3065X employs a single ADC chip (ADI Delta-Sigma chip), whereas the other mentioned DMMs employ various complex Multi-Slope techniques pioneered by HP, Fluke and Keithley from way back (significant knowledge base here).
Think the SDM3065X uses the LM399 differently since the ADC Reference Voltage for Delta-Sigma Conversion is 5 volts whereas the other DMMs use a 10 volt reference derived from the LM399. If this is true (please correct if we've misled here) the LM399 ~7 volts is divided down to 5 volts on the SDM while being amplified up to 10 volts for the others.
Apparently the new 1399 has better noise characteristics which should be beneficial, altho not sure about very long term drift (short history), and requires a phase lead decoupling cap (with 5Ω ESR equivalent). Some study of the various threads about these DMMs and the LM399/1399 performance comparisons should yield a better understanding wrt changing the reference in the SDM3065X.
Anyway, don't think we'll be changing our SDM3065X reference anytime soon, altho certainly interested if others decide to do such :)
Best
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Hello all.
On 06/20/2025, the board ordered for Mouser, ADR1399, arrived to me. I connected it to Type-C and a multimeter.
Also, my SDM3065X multimeter was constantly on for two weeks before that.
The board and the multimeter remain constantly on.
Now the multimeter readings (some of them are drifting, but I don’t know) have stabilized at 6.90900 V (autozero=off)
While the ADR1399 and the multimeter are warming up, I am learning how to calibrate the multimeter.
The new firmware and the calibration menu offer four points: -200 mV, -2 mV, 2 mV, 200 mV.
It turns out that I need to form two reference values 2mV and 200mV (negative is logical, I'll just flip the connectors)
I also plan to order a demo board with ADR1001.
And use it for REFERENCE voltage (of course, also after warming up)
But it turns out that I will need to add a buffer and a resistive divider to this board with ADR1001 to get 2mV and 200mV?
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Those are the call points for the 200mV range only, there are more screens for each of the other ranges.
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Tell me, if I perform calibration for a voltage of 2V, for example, will this change the readings for other ranges or is it necessary to perform mandatory calibration of all ranges? And also for all 4 points in each range?
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Tell me, if I perform calibration for a voltage of 2V, for example, will this change the readings for other ranges or is it necessary to perform mandatory calibration of all ranges? And also for all 4 points in each range?
If modifying one range adjusted other ranges, adjustments for other ranges wouldn't be there. Also, if only one range is off, would you want to force a change on all ranges?
You have to adjust all ranges, but there's no reason to adjust ranges you believe to be accurate.
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You can adjust a single range if you want, but the transition between ranges may show an offset if the next range is not correct
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Siglent DMM SDM3065x stock fan is the 13mm-wide Delta AFB0612LC: 3000rpm, 26.16 m³/h
Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX (25mm wide) in normal mode: 3000rpm, 29.2 m³/h
Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX with LNA NA-RC10: 2400rpm, 23,5 m³/h
SDM3065x applies the voltage in steps to the fan (starts at 9.5V), and I did not experience the voltage being raised during 48+ hours up-time with the Noctua in Low Noise mode.
Is there room for something like a 120mm 12V fan, sitting flat above the boards, would it do any good ? Maybe with some extra air vents/holes ?
If it could be run off 5V and say under 100mA (maybe its 50-60mA on mine), how much power can the 5V rail handle ? It would be very quiet and still have a fair bit of airflow, if the case permits it.
I have the 3065X, and it's louder than my computer most of the time, but my PC is a bit farther away.
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The problem with this and many other DMMs is high temperature drift. The readings change greatly depending on the room temperature. I'm thinking about creating and maintaining an active temperature in the DMM. Close the case and insulate it if possible. Add a circulation fan, a heater and an Arduino board with temperature control. I think a temperature of about +40 Celsius will be optimal.
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For this, an exact temperature -guided speed controlled fan with low hysteresis is sufficient,
in which you remain a defined piece above the highest expected ambient temperature.
This hits two mosquitoes with one flap. Constant internal temperature and an almost inaudibly quiet fan.
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The problem with this and many other DMMs is high temperature drift. The readings change greatly depending on the room temperature. I'm thinking about creating and maintaining an active temperature in the DMM. Close the case and insulate it if possible. Add a circulation fan, a heater and an Arduino board with temperature control. I think a temperature of about +40 Celsius will be optimal.
Seemingly stated by someone that has never been troubled to study the datasheet where for 55 and 65X models accuracy specs are to 50C.
Whereas SDM3045X not being fan cooled like the other 2 models does suffer from temp changes and which are specified to 28C.
More study might be enlightening.....
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A speed controlled fan is a 2 sided thing: it can control the temperature at one point, but the temperature gradients inside the meter would also change. With less air flow some parts like the high voltage divider and shunts can get more self heating effect and worse nonlinearity.
Measurements that really care about accuracy are usually done in a more controlled lab environment. So not extra cold or extra hot. A changing temperature would also effect the external reference etc.
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It's better to control your lab temperature than ruin your meter. The stability on the 3065X isn't that bad anyway, once it's aged.
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A speed controlled fan is a 2 sided thing: it can control the temperature at one point, but the temperature gradients inside the meter would also change. With less air flow some parts like the high voltage divider and shunts can get more self heating effect and worse nonlinearity.
...
This is correct, so a fan control should guarantee a minimum speed so that a minimum air flow / turbulence within the device remains guaranteed.
In the best case, if the fan is positioned (defined distance to the opening suction side),
which at very low speeds it produces almost only circulating air within the device and only increases the fresh air content with slightly higher speeds.
This is exactly how I did it and a very constant temperature is possible, without the inside a standstill at a very slow speed.
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The problem with this and many other DMMs is high temperature drift. The readings change greatly depending on the room temperature. I'm thinking about creating and maintaining an active temperature in the DMM. Close the case and insulate it if possible. Add a circulation fan, a heater and an Arduino board with temperature control. I think a temperature of about +40 Celsius will be optimal.
Seemingly stated by someone that has never been troubled to study the datasheet where for 55 and 65X models accuracy specs are to 50C.
Whereas SDM3045X not being fan cooled like the other 2 models does suffer from temp changes and which are specified to 28C.
More study might be enlightening.....
I took the hint and re-examined the datasheet. I'd scrutinised the datasheets of both (3055 and 3065), paying great attention to the tempco figures before electing to push the boat out and buy the 3065. It wasn't so much the extra digit as much as the superior tempco performance that decided this choice (I was working on temperature stabilising an LPRO in an attempt to improve its Adev into the 10E -13 region and, obviously, I'd be needing a bench meter with the best possible tempco performance).
Anyhow, I did spot that -5 to +50 C figure but I guess I must have assumed at the time that this was more a min to max operational environmental temperature limit outside of its specified tempco performance for the 23 deg +/-5 deg C range. Now that I've given those figures more consideration, it would appear that the tempco performance is "beyond fabulous" (I'd already been very impressed with my assuming the figures had only applied to the 23 +/-5 deg range).
Assuming this interpretation of the tempco figures is correct, there seems to be no point in trying to improve on this with a DIY temperature controlled fan setup which may well prove counterproductive.
Incidentally, my initial thinking that the extra digit of resolution of the 3065 would be "overkill" proved to be wrong since it gave me an insight into the internal temperature variations within the LPRO via the lamp voltage readings that could have so easily been missed with a 5.5 digit meter.
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The < 5 ppm/K specs for the tempco in many ranges is not even extra good. As an example the Keithley 2000 gives < 2 ppm/K for the low voltage ranges. There is still the chance that the actual TC can be quite a bit better. The TC is a property that is slow to measure and thus likely not individually tested (at least not the full range - could be only the drift during warm up as a crude check. So the specs are more a conservative upper limit and acutual performance may well be considerably better. This can still vary between units.
Another upgrade that one gets from the SDM3055 to 3065 is that the high impedance range goes to 20 V (plus some over range). Not that many meters offer such a large range with high impedance.
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The < 5 ppm/K specs for the tempco in many ranges is not even extra good. As an example the Keithley 2000 gives < 2 ppm/K for the low voltage ranges. There is still the chance that the actual TC can be quite a bit better. The TC is a property that is slow to measure and thus likely not individually tested (at least not the full range - could be only the drift during warm up as a crude check. So the specs are more a conservative upper limit and acutual performance may well be considerably better. This can still vary between units.
Another upgrade that one gets from the SDM3055 to 3065 is that the high impedance range goes to 20 V (plus some over range). Not that many meters offer such a large range with high impedance.
This 10G ohm feature is one I regularly use to measure the Xtal and lamp voltages from the LPRO on account of Efratom's use of 20K resistors between the voltage sources and the interface pins. There is a small but distinct drop when using the 10M ohm standard input option.
This also proves handy when measuring the temperature stabilised 7805 output voltage feeding the 5K 10 turn front panel calibration pot and its wiper contact since I've added 10K short circuit current limiting resistors in series with these monitoring points so I rarely select the 10M option.
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Since my workshop is in the living room, I placed my SDM3065X multimeter in the cabinet so that it wouldn't make noise and would remain on all the time. I also placed two ADR1399 boards there. When the cabinet is opened, there is a slight drop in temperature and as a result the multimeters deviate. When the door was just opened, it was 6.90899, then after a couple of minutes it was already 6.90901.
I don't understand who is drifting. Both the board and the digital multimeter are in the closet. I guess I should put the board in a temperature-stabilized chamber.
I'll put the board in a closed 3D printer and change the temperature in the chamber. And then I'll do the same with a multimeter. I wonder who deviates more?))
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I wonder if there will be a firmware update required for compatibility with EasyDMM-X.
ETA: Yup. Firmware upgrade required:
Device Requirement
This software is an upgraded version of EasyDMM, the 3000X series of host computer software, and is compatible with its main functions. This software also expands its functionality by adding support for the 4000A series.
3000X Series
3045X/3055X/3055X-E, Version 1.02.01.28 and above. 3065X, Version 3.02.01.13 and above
4000A系列
4055A/4065A, Version 0.0.0.13 and above
Hmm... Just for information...
I tested my SDM3065X (firmware V3.01.01.12R1) and it works with EasyDMM-X (v 1.0.3) both via USB and LAN. Maybe the problem is with the newer version that has firmware V3.02.x.x - although it's a bit strange. :-//
As for the newer firmware, I think I've lost hope that we'll ever see an update and bug fixes... :(
btw Has anyone checked if the SDM4000 series also has such broken triggering (uneven triggering) as the SDM3000 series ? :popcorn:
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btw Has anyone checked if the SDM4000 series also has such broken triggering (uneven triggering) as the SDM3000 series ? :popcorn:
:-//
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btw Has anyone checked if the SDM4000 series also has such broken triggering (uneven triggering) as the SDM3000 series ? :popcorn:
:-//
I'm not sure if I understood the "emoticon" and the use of bold in my quote correctly... ...so I'll write what exactly I mean.
Specifically, it is about how measurements are triggered from an internal source in the SDM. Specifically, the issue is that measurements are not triggered at equal time intervals when using SDM internal triggering. For example, when we set 1PLC and Atuo Zero to OFF, we trigger the measurements at a frequency of 50Hz and the interval between them should be every 20ms. However, this does not happen and the 20ms time between measurements is not maintained. With the PLC set to minimum we also have some strange dead times between measurements... This can be checked by connecting an oscilloscope to the BNC output - VMC Output. For example, the Keysight 34465A multimeter does not have this problem and measurements are performed at constant, equal time intervals.
This presents a problem when recording data because the individual measurements do not have a uniform time vector...
Below you can see what it looks like on an oscilloscope – the photos are not mine (they come from a YT video where the SDM3065X was tested). However, my SDM3065X has the same problem...
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Something like this can be really sampling at uneven intervals (jitter in sampling) or can be jitter in VMC Output (random delays).
So it can be uneven timing sampling or can be sampling is even and VMC Output has some variability in delay.
Way to confirm this is not to rely on VMC Output timing but applying a changing signal from signal generator and reconstructing from measured points in search for nonlinearities. With simple triangular signal you would be able to see clearly such large sampling jitter as shown on those scope snapshots.
Although it must be noted this is not sample clock out. This output is "acquisition completed" output.
"VMC Output The multimeter outputs a 5V pulse from this port every time it completes a sampling. "
So it is triggered after data processing for the point was done.
If you want to ensure that meter samples synchronously to some other time reference, then Trig in is the way to do it. That way you can synchronize several other instruments.
And no, on SDM4000 on VMC Output I see no such variability.
EDIT: I changed the measurement image because I realized I was sampling with very slow sample rate.
Here is another 2 shots with a faster sampling. It is obvious that jitter is EXTREMLY small, and I am limited with scope sampling here.
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Something like this can be really sampling at uneven intervals (jitter in sampling) or can be jitter in VMC Output (random delays).
It's hard to say what the problem might be. However, SDM3065X is the only multimeter I have that has such strange behavior.
Yes, VMC marks the end of the measurement, so it should only be shifted in time relative to the trigger (by the ADC sampling time + possibly some overhead for controlling the VMC output).
I don't know if you remember – there used to be a problem with the short circuit test (it worked slowly). They fixed it in some software, and it was also related to triggering.
Before the firmware fix, the short circuit test problem only occurred during internal triggering, after connecting an external trigger it worked correctly. This is described somewhere in this thread.
After this fix, if I remember correctly, such miracles appeared on the VMC output (I think this was already described somewhere in this thread - a few years ago).
However, I did not have time to thoroughly test whether the multimeter is triggered correctly from the external input. Besides, it's probably not worth wasting time on such tests, because they probably won't fix it anyway...
In short, something is broken and we can probably forget that it will ever be fixed. I'm omitting other minor bugs described in this thread and reported to support a long time ago.
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Something like this can be really sampling at uneven intervals (jitter in sampling) or can be jitter in VMC Output (random delays).
It's hard to say what the problem might be. However, SDM3065X is the only multimeter I have that has such strange behavior.
Yes, VMC marks the end of the measurement, so it should only be shifted in time relative to the trigger (by the ADC sampling time + possibly some overhead for controlling the VMC output).
I don't know if you remember – there used to be a problem with the short circuit test (it worked slowly). They fixed it in some software, and it was also related to triggering.
Before the firmware fix, the short circuit test problem only occurred during internal triggering, after connecting an external trigger it worked correctly. This is described somewhere in this thread.
After this fix, if I remember correctly, such miracles appeared on the VMC output (I think this was already described somewhere in this thread - a few years ago).
However, I did not have time to thoroughly test whether the multimeter is triggered correctly from the external input. Besides, it's probably not worth wasting time on such tests, because they probably won't fix it anyway...
In short, something is broken and we can probably forget that it will ever be fixed. I'm omitting other minor bugs described in this thread and reported to support a long time ago.
I am sorry but I don't remember and was not involved into discussion at the time. I don't have SDM3065 so could not contribute.
I am simply stating that in order to troubleshoot, I would feed slow ramp to meter and look for discontinuities.
It there are none, sampling is perfect but VMC out is one that is jittery. In which case that is maybe a candidate for fix. It might be that they drive it from software and what you see is realtime OS thread priority jitter. But in any case that would mean that despite that data is perfect. And it would be clear what should be fixed if that is a problem.
Since I do have SDM4065A available I performed test on it and presented a result.
SDM4000 is completely new platform and I would not apply any experience with previous 3000 generation of meters to it. It works very differently. How well it works is a completely new slate that has to be written from the empty.
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This is an interesting observation with the SDM3065X non-uniform sampling, thanks to tomud for pointing this out :-+
A possible test totally within the DMM would use a specific trigger rate/period (like 50Hz mentioned) then use an input signal that is also same frequency as trigger rate. If the trigger rate is non-uniform and non-integer of trigger sample period the DC measurement SD will be high, if the trigger is uniform or uniform within integers of sample trigger period the DC measurement SD should be low.
Siglent has a history of responding and correcting bugs in various instruments, are one of the best at this from mid-level OEMs. If this non-uniform sampling is not something that's engrained within the SDM3065A design/architecture, and can be corrected within a firmware upgrade, we would expect Siglent to take note and correct such.
Best
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However, I did not have time to thoroughly test whether the multimeter is triggered correctly from the external input. Besides, it's probably not worth wasting time on such tests, because they probably won't fix it anyway...
Thanks for the explanation, you understood the emoticon perfectly. ;)
However, I disagree with your statement here. If we setup a test, and a few of us can show it as a bug, Siglent will fix it if it's firmware correctable. I don't doubt that at all based on their track record.
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However, I disagree with your statement here. If we setup a test, and a few of us can show it as a bug, Siglent will fix it if it's firmware correctable. I don't doubt that at all based on their track record.
Generally speaking, I wrote about it when writing information about EasyDMM-X. I just asked out of curiosity if the SDM4000 series also has this problem...
As I mentioned, this topic was probably already discussed in this thread a few years ago. As for testing, as I mentioned, I don't have time for it at the moment, I have a huge backlog of commercial projects and absolutely no time for hobbies.
However, I personally have lost faith that Siglent will fix anything in the SDM3000 Series firmware.
Why?
In late January 2023, @hpw and I wrote about how error reporting works (post #1274) https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4673323/#msg4673323 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4673323/#msg4673323)
In June 2023 I reported a minor bug regarding HI-Z (entry #1347) https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4936198/#msg4936198 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4936198/#msg4936198)
It's 2025 and many bugs reported over the years have not been fixed yet...
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It's 2025 and many bugs reported over the years have not been fixed yet...
There is a new firmware coming out soon. We'll see what's addressed. 🤷
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It's 2025 and many bugs reported over the years have not been fixed yet...
There is a new firmware coming out soon. We'll see what's addressed. 🤷
I would like to believe this... ...but these problems have been occurring since at least 2021, if not earlier... :phew: - Maybe we need to gather a larger group of people, collect all the bugs from the thread and send mass reports to Siglent again
btw, if someone has the time and technical capabilities, maybe they could do more detailed tests - I'm curious about the results.
Although as I mentioned, it was discussed on the forum - Example forum post #959 (@Bad_Driver) from 2022 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3932243/#msg3932243 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3932243/#msg3932243)
Problem:
If you record continuous measurements to USB with SDM3065X, the time interval between measurements is not constant, there are big deviations.
I tried several series with different USB-drives and different settings. As you can see in the attached photos, we find a distribution pattern. (y-axis: time interval between single measurements in seconds)
But for low frequency FFT we need a nearly constant interval or with other words a constant acquisition frequency.
Surprisingly the SDM3065X behaves during very fast recording (0.05 PLC, acquisition frequency up to 1 kHz) best.
It's not a problem of the USB transfer speed, one data set is 32 byte, at 1 kHz acquisition frequency we need only 32 kByte/s.
The problem with the not constant triggering was pointed out here long ago.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3466342/#msg3466342 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3466342/#msg3466342)
I tried external triggering as well but found no improvement.
Attached you find the distribution pattern of different recording (4096 measurements - limit for Excel FFT) of the 3055X and the 3065X.
btw: in one of the first Siglent Operating Tips from March 2018 it was shown that there is no time stamp with recordings to the internal storage
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sample-and-store-sdm3000/ (https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sample-and-store-sdm3000/)
Now we have 2022! Siglent - why?
And one more forum post from 2021 - a problem with the slow operation of the multimeter (it has already been fixed, but it does not seem to be done completely correctly - it is about the mentioned triggering problem) https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3466342/#msg3466342 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3466342/#msg3466342)
I seem to have found a way to solve most of the meter slowness issues. Try switching to an external trigger and applying pulses (positive, 100-500uS length), frequency, for example, 15-20Hz, to the external trigger input. Switch on the continuity check mode and... you will not recognize your meter: the response will be instant and stable!
https://youtu.be/l6XR-P07voM (https://youtu.be/l6XR-P07voM)
I think most of the slowness problems are due to serious bugs in the internal trigger signal generation. It is constantly interrupted, this can be clearly seen on the oscilloscope in the continuity mode and other modes with fast synchronization.
It is also worth noting that the bar meter in the EasyDMM program works very quickly, as it should. And on the meter screen it is very slow, which is unacceptable!
I have no idea if this happens with 60Hz mains power - in the user manual Siglent mentions that the PLC settings change depending on the 50Hz/60Hz mains frequency - It would be worth checking this out
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I have no idea if this happens with 60Hz mains power - in the user manual Siglent mentions that the PLC settings change depending on the 50Hz/60Hz mains frequency - It would be worth checking this out
This was my first thought when you mentioned the 50Hz mains.
I've never had any issues with inconsistent measurement, but I'm on 60Hz mains, and I don't know if I've ever tested slow enough to recreate the issue, though I have had tests running in TestController for many hours.
I wouldn't worry much about old reports. There are more beta testers for Siglent on this site than there used to be. The only question is repeatability of the issue. If a few people can repeat the issue, and give specific details to recreate it, then the bug can be reported and added to their to-dodo list.
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I wouldn't worry much about old reports. There are more beta testers for Siglent on this site than there used to be. The only question is repeatability of the issue. If a few people can repeat the issue, and give specific details to recreate it, then the bug can be reported and added to their to-dodo list.
I personally reported some bugs even before version V3.01.01.12R1 was released - unfortunately not many were fixed...
However, these old posts only show that problems with both internal and external triggering in the SDM3000 series have been present since at least 2021. Although some issues, such as the slow operation I mentioned earlier, have been partially fixed. I've only provided links here as a reminder.
On the other hand, when I bought the SDM3065X, I knew about the bugs—though I hoped they'd fix them. Now, over three years have passed and nothing has changed—so I'm starting to lose faith that they'll ever fix it. In the case of spectrum analyzers and oscilloscopes, the situation is better when it comes to fixing software bugs (though it's not perfect either), but in the case of multimeters, it's a disaster...
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I personally reported some bugs even before version V3.01.01.12R1 was released - unfortunately not many were fixed...
To whom? Assuming you're not a beta tester with direct communication with Siglent development, reporting bugs here only doesn't mean much if the beta testers or other Siglent reps/associates don't also report the bug directly to Siglent. That's why it's necessary to provide the details to recreate the bug. Once confirmed, they're usually pretty good about reporting the bugs into the Siglent system.
That said, simply reporting the bug before a firmware release doesn't guarantee it will be included in that specific release either. We can't dictate their timeline, or priorities. Unless it was a major bug, I would be surprised if it didn't just get lumped in with a future planned release.
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To whom? Assuming you're not a beta tester with direct communication with Siglent development, reporting bugs here only doesn't mean much if the beta testers or other Siglent reps/associates don't also report the bug directly to Siglent. That's why it's necessary to provide the details to recreate the bug. Once confirmed, they're usually pretty good about reporting the bugs into the Siglent system.
I reported the bugs directly to Siglent support, and they confirmed some of them. Other people reported the same, including @tautech.
Unfortunately, little has changed since the release of version V3.01.01.10 (release date 08/09/21), i.e., since 2021.
Besides, as I mentioned about the bad triggering, there are at least a few posts in this thread - and the oldest are from around 2021...
I also understand that Siglent has its priorities, but let's not exaggerate, they had a lot of time from 2021 to 2025... ...The last firmware for SDM3065 is from 2023 - so two years have passed... ...Maybe they'll make it by 2030 :palm:
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Well, let's hope those fixes make it in the next firmware update. ;)
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Okay, another quick test. The one Bad_Driver did (in January 2022) – I saved the SDM3065X measurement data to a USB flash drive. When saving data this way, we have time stamps in the CSV file.
Here you can also see, similarly to the oscilloscope connected to the VMC output, that the interval between samples is not constant and is not always 20ms. Settings as before 1PLC, Auto Zero: Off
[attachimg=1]
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Okay, another quick test. The one Bad_Driver did (in January 2022) – I saved the SDM3065X measurement data to a USB flash drive. When saving data this way, we have time stamps in the CSV file.
Here you can also see, similarly to the oscilloscope connected to the VMC output, that the interval between samples is not constant and is not always 20ms. Settings as before 1PLC, Auto Zero: Off
How did you log the data?
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Here you can also see, similarly to the oscilloscope connected to the VMC output, that the interval between samples is not constant and is not always 20ms.
Question: is this really bad?
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How did you log the data?
Acquire Key -> Save Reading -> U-disk Record -> Record: On
Question: is this really bad?
It is relative, it depends on what we do. However, it should work correctly like in other multimeters.
You can also see from the entries above that Siglent SDM4000 is working properly and there is no such error (looking at the signal from the VMC output) https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5974089/#msg5974089 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5974089/#msg5974089)
For example, if we want to log data and perform FFT later, this will be a problem.
From what I remember, there were also some problems when using the external trigger input...
That's why I personally use my Keysight 6 1/2 for logging, and the Siglent serves as a basic workshop multimeter (Precisely because of problems with triggering measurements) ...
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How did you log the data?
Acquire Key -> Save Reading -> U-disk Record -> Record: On
Result attached. 1PLC, AZ off, 60Hz.
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Result attached. 1PLC, AZ off, 60Hz.
It's even worse than mine... Times from 0.008s to 0.025s
Where for 60Hz should be 16.67ms
I wonder what the signal from the VMC output (one of the rear BMC outputs) looks like on an oscilloscope - I wonder if it's 60Hz or 50Hz...
[attachimg=1]
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It's even worse than mine... Times from 0.008s to 0.025s
Where for 60Hz should be 16.67ms
I wonder what the signal from the VMC output (one of the rear BMC outputs) looks like on an oscilloscope - I wonder if it's 60Hz or 50Hz...
60ish. ;) +/-4Hz.
For comparison, my KS34465A is pretty solid at 59.9Hz immediately after power on.
Seems that instability might be the cause of the timing issue you're seeing.
ETA: added a quick comparison. You can see the KS shifts in the uHz range, while the SDM shifts in the Hz range inconsistently.
Thanks,
Josh
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ETA: added a quick comparison. You can see the KS shifts in the uHz range, while the SDM shifts in the Hz range inconsistently.
Well, it's the same for me – Keysight is perfect, but Siglent has issues. If I remember correctly, I also had problems with external triggering – but I tested it a few years ago and don't remember exactly what was wrong.
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I attached a quick video comparison. I dunno if this is something they can stabilize or not.
Thanks,
Josh
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I am confused as if anybody, ever, did test of sampling a ramp and looking into data?
As I said both the output and timestamping in file can be related to when software was doing processing as opposed to when the data was sampled.
What is demonstrated here is weird, but everybody assumes sampling was not uniform but that is not given conclusion. Deciphering that detail might point out to the source of the behaviour, hence maybe facilitating fix.
I don't have that meter so cannot do it myself.
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Personally, I don't know if anyone has tested ramp, although you'd probably have to look through all the entries to find out.
The tests that revealed this problem were conducted by Bad_Driver and described in the post I linked to a few posts ago (#959 from 2022r):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3932243/#msg3932243 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3932243/#msg3932243)
About two years ago I tested triggering from an external input and there were problems with this triggering too - I don't remember exactly, but not all settings from the external triggering menu worked properly. Ultimately, however, I gave up on it and decided that it was not worth wasting time on it and figuring out what was broken in the firmware. As I mentioned, I have given up on fighting with this multimeter, I no longer believe that Siglent will fix anything in it... Now I'm more interested in whether the SDM4000 performs better in this respect - although I'm still hesitant to buy another Siglent multimeter
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Personally, I don't know if anyone has tested ramp, although you'd probably have to look through all the entries to find out.
The tests that revealed this problem were conducted by Bad_Driver and described in the post I linked to a few posts ago (#959 from 2022r):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3932243/#msg3932243 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3932243/#msg3932243)
About two years ago I tested triggering from an external input and there were problems with this triggering too - I don't remember exactly, but not all settings from the external triggering menu worked properly. Ultimately, however, I gave up on it and decided that it was not worth wasting time on it and figuring out what was broken in the firmware. As I mentioned, I have given up on fighting with this multimeter, I no longer believe that Siglent will fix anything in it... Now I'm more interested in whether the SDM4000 performs better in this respect - although I'm still hesitant to buy another Siglent multimeter
With do all respect you keep repeating same thing and mostly not well documented data.
Same thing about 4000 series.
I responded to you with a specific answer and measurements.
And you ignore it. And still persist with "we don't know" We do.
EDIT: fixed typos. I hate typing on the smartphone.
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With do all respect you keep repeating same thing and mostly not well documented data.
As I wrote a few years ago, I tested external triggering and it did not work properly - so it is difficult to call it unconfirmed data. Likewise, the VMC output, regardless of whether it is the beginning or end of sampling, works very strangely compared to other multimeters I have tested (I have not seen such behavior in any other multimeter). So if I have bad timestamps, problems with the external trigger, nonsense on the VMC output - why should I, as a customer who bought the measurement equipment, assume that sampling is performed at the correct time periods?
However, currently I don't have much time to devote to testing this multimeter - unfortunately I have a few more important projects (I have to earn money). Especially since these multimeters have been produced for 10 years and during this time many reports have not been included in the software - I don't see the point in wasting time on this multimeter. To be honest, regardless of what the problem is, I would like it to work like it does in my Keysight - that's all... Especially since they haven't managed to fix even the simplest keyboard control error for over 2 years (problem with turning on HI-Z)... Measurement timestamps should also indicate the sampling time, not some random data, which makes them totally useless... I don't know, maybe I'm weird, but it seems to me that 3 years is a long time to eliminate reported bugs...
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With do all respect you keep repeating same thing and mostly not well documented data.
As I wrote a few years ago, I tested external triggering and it did not work properly - so it is difficult to call it unconfirmed data. Likewise, the VMC output, regardless of whether it is the beginning or end of sampling, works very strangely compared to other multimeters I have tested (I have not seen such behavior in any other multimeter). So if I have bad timestamps, problems with the external trigger, nonsense on the VMC output - why should I, as a customer who bought the measurement equipment, assume that sampling is performed at the correct time periods?
However, currently I don't have much time to devote to testing this multimeter - unfortunately I have a few more important projects (I have to earn money). Especially since these multimeters have been produced for 10 years and during this time many reports have not been included in the software - I don't see the point in wasting time on this multimeter. To be honest, regardless of what the problem is, I would like it to work like it does in my Keysight - that's all... Especially since they haven't managed to fix even the simplest keyboard control error for over 2 years (problem with turning on HI-Z)... Measurement timestamps should also indicate the sampling time, not some random data, which makes them totally useless... I don't know, maybe I'm weird, but it seems to me that 3 years is a long time to eliminate reported bugs...
I would kindly ask you to read more carefully. I said "not well DOCUMENTED" data, not unconfirmed.
Timestamps you ASSUME mean sample timestamps, but I assure you that it is not given.
It will depend on how it was implemented.
As for the fact there is something weird going on here and the fact that anything that can be fixed should be fixed, I agree with you 100%.
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It's not entirely certain whether the samples are sampled at regular intervals. However, as I mentioned, I've never observed this behavior in the VMC output. It hasn't happened with any multimeter I've used (Keysight, GWInstek, etc.). If there was jitter, it was usually very slight and insignificant. Similarly, when looking at the signal at the VMC output in the case of a smaller PLC (shorter sampling times) - you can see obvious holes in it where there is no information about the end of sampling...
Yes, you can spend time on a more thorough analysis of the problem. But these issues have been known since at least 2021. In the meantime, if I'm not mistaken, two firmware updates have been released that haven't fixed the issue – so the question remains whether it's worth spending time on a more thorough analysis.
Within 4 years I would fix this software myself or write it from scratch... he he, just let them provide me with the source code and documentation of the multimeter (with a signed NDA, of course) - in exchange for writing the software they can send me e.g. SNA6134A :-DD
[attachimg=1]
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The delta time in the table, where does that come from?
Did you create it yourself?
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The delta time in the table, where does that come from?
Did you create it yourself?
I added that myself - it is the difference between the times of two subsequent samples, i.e. =B3-B2, =B4-B3 etc.
Added to see what the time is between two samples... Assuming this is the time after sampling has ended, it should still be 20 ms for 50 Hz and 1PLC (of course, some slight jitter is acceptable - but not as much as here).
Besides, anyone can save measurements on a pendrive with any PLC settings and Auto Zero disabled and analyze these time stamps at their own discretion ;)
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Thank you, but answering my actual question is sufficient. ;)
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Thank you, but answering my actual question is sufficient. ;)
OK ;) Actually, I made this write to CSV file quickly to show that the problem is not only the signal at the VMC output but there is also the same problem with the timestamp when writing to the file...
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I used the trend function for the period measurements, which illustrates this well, especially since the very slight peaks (VMC out) are barely visible with Magnova.
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It's even worse than mine... Times from 0.008s to 0.025s
Where for 60Hz should be 16.67ms
I wonder what the signal from the VMC output (one of the rear BMC outputs) looks like on an oscilloscope - I wonder if it's 60Hz or 50Hz...
60ish. ;) +/-4Hz.
For comparison, my KS34465A is pretty solid at 59.9Hz immediately after power on.
Seems that instability might be the cause of the timing issue you're seeing.
What about my comment above? It seems the clock instability might be related to the inconsistency. If it's sampling data based on PLCs, and it can't accurately or with any stability match the PLC, wouldn't that be kinda problematic?
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I used the trend function for the period measurements, which illustrates this well, especially since the very slight peaks (VMC out) are barely visible with Magnova.
And here you can see that in the case of the 4065A Siglent did its homework and everything is fine (as in multimeters from other companies), and the 3065X basically works as it pleases... If the 4065A also writes timestamps to the file, then probably everything is OK here too and there are no such discrepancies as in the 3065X...
What about my comment above? It seems the clock instability might be related to the inconsistency. If it's sampling data based on PLCs, and it can't accurately or with any stability match the PLC, wouldn't that be kinda problematic?
I would be more inclined to the problem described by maxspb69 in 2021 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3466342/#msg3466342 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3466342/#msg3466342)
So there's a bigger problem with handling triggers in the software. Previously, other functionalities relied on these triggers, such as circuit continuity measurement, which resulted in unstable and slow operation. Siglent fixed the slow performance issue by using some kind of "workaround" - however, they did not fix the main cause (i.e. trigger handling) which was the main cause of the problem. However, the problem with trigger handling is now visible in the form of incorrect timestamps and incorrect VMC output handling.
Most likely they designed the software architecture wrong in the first place and now it's hard to fix it - it might require rewriting a lot of code, which is not very profitable for them to do...
The question remains whether this problem also has a real impact on the ADC sampling time... ...but to verify this would require a deeper analysis of the logged data. The question also arises whether this does not translate into, for example, worse filtration of mains frequency signals (i.e. 50/60Hz) from the measured signal during measurements....
-
The data really support that the sampling is OK and just the timestamps wrong. As a good visualization one can look at the difference of consecutive readings. So the measured slope. This should also give a sine wave and would be quite sensitive to uneven sampling.
This curve looks like a good sine (see attachment), with just the limited number of samples.
-
Sorry, but I must be tired - I accidentally deleted my post above where I described a test I did. I don't have the strength to write the description again, so I'm only attaching the data.
Attached are the CSV data and a python script.
The CSV data contains a recorded 5Hz 1Vpp + 0.5V DC Offset signal (unfortunately from a poor FY6900 generator). Multimeter Settings: 1PLC, AutoZero Off, DC Range 2V
I've done some timestamp analysis and some simple data analysis (by assigning them to the sine wave generated by the script). I hope I didn't break anything in the script code ;)
It appears that the ADC is triggering correctly, and the problem lies solely with the timestamp. Although the noise doesn't allow for precise determination, a signal from a better generator would be useful.
This is not a perfect method and has its drawbacks - so if someone has other ideas, they can do an analysis. For now, I'm going to get some rest (too many hours in front of the computer) - before I break something else...
Test results:
tomek@MacBook-Pro-Tomasz SDM3065X_Test % python3 sdm3065X_test.py
Checking required libraries...
All required libraries are installed.
Loading CSV file...
Data loaded successfully. Number of samples: 1841
Analyzing timestamp jitter...
Average time interval: 0.019930 s
Standard deviation of time intervals: 0.003659 s
Relative standard deviation: 18.36%
Generating time intervals plot...
Fitting sine wave to voltage data...
Fitted sine wave parameters:
Amplitude: 0.451293 V
Frequency: 4.999909 Hz
Phase: 2.183327 rad
Offset: 0.511630 V
Calculating fitted values and residuals...
Standard deviation of voltage residuals: 0.021474 V
Generating voltage vs. fitted sine wave plot...
Generating residuals plot...
Script Code:
import pandas as pd
import numpy as np
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
from scipy.optimize import curve_fit
# Check if required libraries are installed
try:
print("Checking required libraries...")
import pandas
import numpy
import matplotlib
import scipy
print("All required libraries are installed.")
except ImportError as e:
print(f"Error: Missing library - {e}. Please install required libraries: pandas, numpy, matplotlib, scipy.")
exit(1)
# Load the data
try:
print("Loading CSV file...")
data = pd.read_csv('1PLC_SlN_5Hz_1V_DC_V.csv')
time = data['Time(s)']
voltage = data['Value']
print(f"Data loaded successfully. Number of samples: {len(time)}")
except Exception as e:
print(f"Error loading CSV file: {e}")
exit(1)
# Check for missing or invalid data
if time.isna().any() or voltage.isna().any():
print("Warning: Data contains NaN values. Removing them...")
data = data.dropna()
time = data['Time(s)']
voltage = data['Value']
# Analyze jitter in timestamps
try:
print("Analyzing timestamp jitter...")
delta_t = time.diff().dropna()
mean_dt = delta_t.mean()
std_dt = delta_t.std()
print(f"Average time interval: {mean_dt:.6f} s")
print(f"Standard deviation of time intervals: {std_dt:.6f} s")
print(f"Relative standard deviation: {(std_dt / mean_dt * 100):.2f}%")
except Exception as e:
print(f"Error analyzing timestamps: {e}")
exit(1)
# Plot time intervals
try:
print("Generating time intervals plot...")
plt.figure(figsize=(10, 4))
plt.plot(delta_t, label='Time intervals')
plt.axhline(mean_dt, color='r', linestyle='--', label=f'Mean: {mean_dt:.6f} s')
plt.title('Time Intervals Between Samples')
plt.xlabel('Sample Number')
plt.ylabel('Time Interval [s]')
plt.legend()
plt.grid(True)
plt.show()
except Exception as e:
print(f"Error generating time intervals plot: {e}")
exit(1)
# Define sine wave function
def sine_wave(t, A, f, phi, offset):
return A * np.sin(2 * np.pi * f * t + phi) + offset
# Fit a sine wave
try:
print("Fitting sine wave to voltage data...")
# Initial parameters: amplitude 0.5 V, frequency 5 Hz, phase 0, offset 0.5 V
p0 = [0.5, 5.0, 0, 0.5]
# Add bounds to prevent unrealistic values
bounds = ([0.1, 4.5, -np.pi, 0.3], [0.7, 5.5, np.pi, 0.7])
popt, pcov = curve_fit(sine_wave, time, voltage, p0=p0, bounds=bounds, maxfev=10000)
A_fit, f_fit, phi_fit, offset_fit = popt
print(f"Fitted sine wave parameters:")
print(f"Amplitude: {A_fit:.6f} V")
print(f"Frequency: {f_fit:.6f} Hz")
print(f"Phase: {phi_fit:.6f} rad")
print(f"Offset: {offset_fit:.6f} V")
except Exception as e:
print(f"Error fitting sine wave: {e}")
exit(1)
# Calculate fitted values and residuals
try:
print("Calculating fitted values and residuals...")
voltage_fit = sine_wave(time, *popt)
residuals = voltage - voltage_fit
print(f"Standard deviation of voltage residuals: {residuals.std():.6f} V")
except Exception as e:
print(f"Error calculating fitted values: {e}")
exit(1)
# Plot data and fitted sine wave
try:
print("Generating voltage vs. fitted sine wave plot...")
plt.figure(figsize=(10, 4))
plt.plot(time, voltage, 'b.', label='Measurements', markersize=2)
plt.plot(time, voltage_fit, 'r-', label='Fitted sine wave')
plt.title('Voltage Measurements vs. Fitted Sine Wave')
plt.xlabel('Time [s]')
plt.ylabel('Voltage [V]')
plt.legend()
plt.grid(True)
plt.show()
except Exception as e:
print(f"Error generating voltage plot: {e}")
exit(1)
# Plot residuals
try:
print("Generating residuals plot...")
plt.figure(figsize=(10, 4))
plt.plot(time, residuals, 'b-', label='Residuals from sine wave')
plt.title('Voltage Residuals from Fitted Sine Wave')
plt.xlabel('Time [s]')
plt.ylabel('Residual [V]')
plt.legend()
plt.grid(True)
plt.show()
except Exception as e:
print(f"Error generating residuals plot: {e}")
exit(1)
-
The data really support that the sampling is OK and just the timestamps wrong. As a good visualization one can look at the difference of consecutive readings. So the measured slope. This should also give a sine wave and would be quite sensitive to uneven sampling.
This curve looks like a good sine (see attachment), with just the limited number of samples.
I spent some time on this topic, did various analyses using various methods, etc.
To tell the truth, I don't have clear results.
You can easily determine jitter in timestamp because it is very simple.
For timestamp, the standard deviation of the period is approximately 3.659 ms. This is approximately 18% of the expected period of 20 ms.
Assuming that the ADC may have similar triggering errors (as with the timestamp), and taking into account noise and imperfections in the generator used, some voltage measurement errors by the ADC, it is difficult to definitively say whether the ADC has similar jitter to the timestamp, at least using the few methods I have tested.
Maybe someone has some other ideas ;)
Below is one attempt to analyze the recorded data (python script available for download):
tomek@MacBook-Pro-Tomasz SDM3065X_Test % python3 sdm3065X_test3.py --csv_file 1PLC_SlN_5Hz_1V_DC_V.csv --freq 5 --amplitude 0.5 --offset 0.5 --plc 1.0 --signal_type sine --window_size 1.0
Timestamp Jitter Analysis:
Mean timestamp interval: 0.019930 s
Standard deviation (jitter): 0.003659 s
Maximum timestamp interval: 0.037537 s
Minimum timestamp interval: 0.008079 s
Expected timestamp interval: 0.020000 s
Maximum deviation from expected: 0.017537 s
Number of timestamp anomalies: 733
Timestamp anomalies (time, deviation):
Time: 0.065512 s, Deviation: 0.002606 s
Time: 0.126939 s, Deviation: 0.002924 s
Time: 0.165068 s, Deviation: 0.002659 s
Time: 0.225970 s, Deviation: 0.002674 s
Time: 0.264214 s, Deviation: 0.002865 s
Time: 0.325261 s, Deviation: 0.002843 s
Time: 0.386301 s, Deviation: 0.002705 s
Time: 0.424561 s, Deviation: 0.002856 s
Time: 0.485165 s, Deviation: 0.002919 s
Time: 0.523524 s, Deviation: 0.002999 s
Time: 0.584591 s, Deviation: 0.002907 s
Time: 0.622603 s, Deviation: 0.002662 s
Time: 0.683990 s, Deviation: 0.003354 s
Time: 0.744375 s, Deviation: 0.002549 s
Time: 0.782857 s, Deviation: 0.002934 s
Time: 0.843716 s, Deviation: 0.002824 s
Time: 0.881712 s, Deviation: 0.002658 s
Time: 0.942591 s, Deviation: 0.002834 s
Time: 1.002821 s, Deviation: 0.002549 s
Time: 1.041280 s, Deviation: 0.002888 s
Time: 1.101654 s, Deviation: 0.002273 s
Time: 1.162025 s, Deviation: 0.002619 s
Time: 1.200583 s, Deviation: 0.002718 s
Time: 1.261044 s, Deviation: 0.002350 s
Time: 1.299491 s, Deviation: 0.002961 s
Time: 1.360438 s, Deviation: 0.002524 s
Time: 1.398810 s, Deviation: 0.002985 s
Time: 1.459642 s, Deviation: 0.002870 s
Time: 1.520684 s, Deviation: 0.002584 s
Time: 1.558776 s, Deviation: 0.002679 s
Time: 1.619799 s, Deviation: 0.002721 s
Time: 1.657890 s, Deviation: 0.002672 s
Time: 1.718817 s, Deviation: 0.002750 s
Time: 1.757151 s, Deviation: 0.002915 s
Time: 1.817847 s, Deviation: 0.002824 s
Time: 1.879340 s, Deviation: 0.003090 s
Time: 1.917023 s, Deviation: 0.002603 s
Time: 1.978340 s, Deviation: 0.003093 s
Time: 2.016242 s, Deviation: 0.002536 s
Time: 2.077218 s, Deviation: 0.002821 s
Time: 2.137992 s, Deviation: 0.003105 s
Time: 2.175599 s, Deviation: 0.002582 s
Time: 2.236391 s, Deviation: 0.002992 s
Time: 2.283795 s, Deviation: 0.002308 s
Time: 2.299590 s, Deviation: 0.005096 s
Time: 2.314985 s, Deviation: -0.004205 s
Time: 2.375578 s, Deviation: 0.002285 s
Time: 2.436452 s, Deviation: 0.002594 s
Time: 2.474801 s, Deviation: 0.002646 s
Time: 2.535254 s, Deviation: 0.002359 s
Time: 2.573566 s, Deviation: 0.002698 s
Time: 2.634419 s, Deviation: 0.002408 s
Time: 2.672982 s, Deviation: 0.003155 s
Time: 2.733610 s, Deviation: 0.002715 s
Time: 2.794576 s, Deviation: 0.002593 s
Time: 2.832909 s, Deviation: 0.003015 s
Time: 2.894242 s, Deviation: 0.002778 s
Time: 2.932458 s, Deviation: 0.002803 s
Time: 2.993817 s, Deviation: 0.003183 s
Time: 3.031912 s, Deviation: 0.002666 s
Time: 3.092789 s, Deviation: 0.002917 s
Time: 3.131037 s, Deviation: 0.002607 s
Time: 3.191736 s, Deviation: 0.002853 s
Time: 3.252903 s, Deviation: 0.003172 s
Time: 3.290546 s, Deviation: 0.002322 s
Time: 3.351651 s, Deviation: 0.002940 s
Time: 3.412586 s, Deviation: 0.003259 s
Time: 3.450232 s, Deviation: 0.002366 s
Time: 3.510935 s, Deviation: 0.002951 s
Time: 3.571362 s, Deviation: 0.002505 s
Time: 3.609410 s, Deviation: 0.002682 s
Time: 3.670451 s, Deviation: 0.003064 s
Time: 3.708367 s, Deviation: 0.002594 s
Time: 3.769351 s, Deviation: 0.002959 s
Time: 3.829665 s, Deviation: 0.002522 s
Time: 3.868240 s, Deviation: 0.002994 s
Time: 3.928886 s, Deviation: 0.002679 s
Time: 3.953295 s, Deviation: -0.004386 s
Time: 3.968566 s, Deviation: 0.004409 s
Time: 4.006798 s, Deviation: 0.002818 s
Time: 4.067492 s, Deviation: 0.002594 s
Time: 4.128699 s, Deviation: 0.002888 s
Time: 4.166807 s, Deviation: 0.002608 s
Time: 4.227777 s, Deviation: 0.002766 s
Time: 4.266188 s, Deviation: 0.003016 s
Time: 4.326877 s, Deviation: 0.002902 s
Time: 4.365373 s, Deviation: 0.003177 s
Time: 4.426436 s, Deviation: 0.002945 s
Time: 4.464878 s, Deviation: 0.002627 s
Time: 4.526195 s, Deviation: 0.003199 s
Time: 4.586958 s, Deviation: 0.002807 s
Time: 4.624985 s, Deviation: 0.002679 s
Time: 4.685969 s, Deviation: 0.003066 s
Time: 4.723796 s, Deviation: 0.002536 s
Time: 4.784721 s, Deviation: 0.002961 s
Time: 4.844931 s, Deviation: 0.002502 s
Time: 4.883014 s, Deviation: 0.002708 s
Time: 4.943916 s, Deviation: 0.002586 s
Time: 5.004862 s, Deviation: 0.002580 s
Time: 5.031346 s, Deviation: -0.004280 s
Time: 5.046984 s, Deviation: 0.006484 s
Time: 5.062098 s, Deviation: -0.004362 s
Time: 5.122859 s, Deviation: 0.002871 s
Time: 5.183406 s, Deviation: 0.002367 s
Time: 5.221910 s, Deviation: 0.003013 s
Time: 5.283081 s, Deviation: 0.003002 s
Time: 5.321580 s, Deviation: 0.003048 s
Time: 5.382327 s, Deviation: 0.003055 s
Time: 5.420703 s, Deviation: 0.002804 s
Time: 5.481663 s, Deviation: 0.003063 s
Time: 5.519937 s, Deviation: 0.002723 s
Time: 5.580890 s, Deviation: 0.002592 s
Time: 5.619033 s, Deviation: 0.002704 s
Time: 5.679891 s, Deviation: 0.002422 s
Time: 5.740749 s, Deviation: 0.002591 s
Time: 5.779008 s, Deviation: 0.002585 s
Time: 5.839826 s, Deviation: 0.002510 s
Time: 5.878261 s, Deviation: 0.002776 s
Time: 5.938539 s, Deviation: 0.002380 s
Time: 5.999624 s, Deviation: 0.002622 s
Time: 6.037282 s, Deviation: 0.002294 s
Time: 6.097660 s, Deviation: 0.002383 s
Time: 6.159062 s, Deviation: 0.002969 s
Time: 6.196486 s, Deviation: 0.002406 s
Time: 6.257592 s, Deviation: 0.002696 s
Time: 6.318706 s, Deviation: 0.002741 s
Time: 6.356389 s, Deviation: 0.002600 s
Time: 6.417496 s, Deviation: 0.002941 s
Time: 6.455182 s, Deviation: 0.002621 s
Time: 6.516458 s, Deviation: 0.003044 s
Time: 6.554581 s, Deviation: 0.002659 s
Time: 6.615488 s, Deviation: 0.002916 s
Time: 6.654067 s, Deviation: 0.003002 s
Time: 6.715018 s, Deviation: 0.002697 s
Time: 6.776504 s, Deviation: 0.002910 s
Time: 6.814912 s, Deviation: 0.002581 s
Time: 6.875567 s, Deviation: 0.002752 s
Time: 6.914314 s, Deviation: 0.003089 s
Time: 6.992792 s, Deviation: 0.003130 s
Time: 7.052967 s, Deviation: 0.002577 s
Time: 7.113722 s, Deviation: 0.002615 s
Time: 7.174802 s, Deviation: 0.002888 s
Time: 7.212425 s, Deviation: 0.002582 s
Time: 7.273460 s, Deviation: 0.002910 s
Time: 7.311311 s, Deviation: 0.002590 s
Time: 7.372780 s, Deviation: 0.003130 s
Time: 7.410925 s, Deviation: 0.002557 s
Time: 7.471466 s, Deviation: 0.002722 s
Time: 7.532949 s, Deviation: 0.003149 s
Time: 7.571188 s, Deviation: 0.002842 s
Time: 7.609882 s, Deviation: 0.003119 s
Time: 7.670637 s, Deviation: 0.002564 s
Time: 7.731976 s, Deviation: 0.003160 s
Time: 7.770613 s, Deviation: 0.002870 s
Time: 7.808890 s, Deviation: 0.002794 s
Time: 7.870029 s, Deviation: 0.002742 s
Time: 7.908601 s, Deviation: 0.003116 s
Time: 7.956394 s, Deviation: 0.003049 s
Time: 7.971843 s, Deviation: 0.004744 s
Time: 8.010714 s, Deviation: 0.003245 s
Time: 8.048810 s, Deviation: 0.002581 s
Time: 8.110351 s, Deviation: 0.003397 s
Time: 8.148301 s, Deviation: 0.002455 s
Time: 8.186952 s, Deviation: 0.003225 s
Time: 8.247383 s, Deviation: 0.002533 s
Time: 8.308426 s, Deviation: 0.002612 s
Time: 8.346421 s, Deviation: 0.002544 s
Time: 8.406798 s, Deviation: 0.002376 s
Time: 8.468142 s, Deviation: 0.002887 s
Time: 8.505758 s, Deviation: 0.002377 s
Time: 8.566693 s, Deviation: 0.002764 s
Time: 8.627754 s, Deviation: 0.002648 s
Time: 8.665455 s, Deviation: 0.002622 s
Time: 8.726999 s, Deviation: 0.003031 s
Time: 8.764927 s, Deviation: 0.002597 s
Time: 8.826330 s, Deviation: 0.002903 s
Time: 8.864643 s, Deviation: 0.002830 s
Time: 8.925694 s, Deviation: 0.003008 s
Time: 8.964361 s, Deviation: 0.003083 s
Time: 9.025688 s, Deviation: 0.002897 s
Time: 9.063981 s, Deviation: 0.002746 s
Time: 9.125516 s, Deviation: 0.003159 s
Time: 9.163594 s, Deviation: 0.002581 s
Time: 9.202429 s, Deviation: 0.002933 s
Time: 9.263415 s, Deviation: 0.002808 s
Time: 9.324467 s, Deviation: 0.002608 s
Time: 9.362963 s, Deviation: 0.002837 s
Time: 9.423614 s, Deviation: 0.002439 s
Time: 9.462295 s, Deviation: 0.003259 s
Time: 9.522764 s, Deviation: 0.002561 s
Time: 9.561367 s, Deviation: 0.003251 s
Time: 9.622019 s, Deviation: 0.002820 s
Time: 9.660106 s, Deviation: 0.002953 s
Time: 9.720820 s, Deviation: 0.002786 s
Time: 9.781259 s, Deviation: 0.002590 s
Time: 9.819789 s, Deviation: 0.003089 s
Time: 9.879961 s, Deviation: 0.002597 s
Time: 9.940791 s, Deviation: 0.002843 s
Time: 9.966128 s, Deviation: -0.004919 s
Time: 9.991523 s, Deviation: 0.005337 s
Time: 9.999601 s, Deviation: 0.005394 s
Time: 10.061159 s, Deviation: 0.002835 s
Time: 10.099165 s, Deviation: 0.002855 s
Time: 10.160108 s, Deviation: 0.003123 s
Time: 10.198582 s, Deviation: 0.003113 s
Time: 10.259931 s, Deviation: 0.003140 s
Time: 10.298248 s, Deviation: 0.002703 s
Time: 10.359922 s, Deviation: 0.003176 s
Time: 10.437205 s, Deviation: 0.003048 s
Time: 10.498108 s, Deviation: 0.002867 s
Time: 10.536773 s, Deviation: 0.003061 s
Time: 10.598161 s, Deviation: 0.002692 s
Time: 10.636110 s, Deviation: 0.002828 s
Time: 10.697173 s, Deviation: 0.003028 s
Time: 10.735878 s, Deviation: 0.003060 s
Time: 10.796818 s, Deviation: 0.002881 s
Time: 10.835504 s, Deviation: 0.003058 s
Time: 10.896550 s, Deviation: 0.002865 s
Time: 10.934609 s, Deviation: 0.002707 s
Time: 10.981130 s, Deviation: 0.002501 s
Time: 10.996795 s, Deviation: 0.004019 s
Time: 11.034247 s, Deviation: 0.002393 s
Time: 11.095460 s, Deviation: 0.002878 s
Time: 11.156016 s, Deviation: 0.002513 s
Time: 11.194335 s, Deviation: 0.002943 s
Time: 11.255261 s, Deviation: 0.002593 s
Time: 11.293071 s, Deviation: 0.002696 s
Time: 11.353849 s, Deviation: 0.002628 s
Time: 11.414953 s, Deviation: 0.002353 s
Time: 11.453424 s, Deviation: 0.003040 s
Time: 11.514526 s, Deviation: 0.002857 s
Time: 11.553042 s, Deviation: 0.003158 s
Time: 11.591549 s, Deviation: 0.002727 s
Time: 11.651922 s, Deviation: 0.002609 s
Time: 11.713384 s, Deviation: 0.003154 s
Time: 11.751597 s, Deviation: 0.002849 s
Time: 11.812656 s, Deviation: 0.002868 s
Time: 11.850907 s, Deviation: 0.002551 s
Time: 11.912142 s, Deviation: 0.003157 s
Time: 11.950606 s, Deviation: 0.002724 s
Time: 12.011937 s, Deviation: 0.002747 s
Time: 12.049917 s, Deviation: 0.002673 s
Time: 12.111774 s, Deviation: 0.003081 s
Time: 12.150017 s, Deviation: 0.002862 s
Time: 12.211072 s, Deviation: 0.002885 s
Time: 12.249653 s, Deviation: 0.002944 s
Time: 12.288348 s, Deviation: 0.003335 s
Time: 12.349636 s, Deviation: 0.002855 s
Time: 12.387734 s, Deviation: 0.002702 s
Time: 12.449180 s, Deviation: 0.003292 s
Time: 12.487610 s, Deviation: 0.002964 s
Time: 12.548929 s, Deviation: 0.002998 s
Time: 12.586588 s, Deviation: 0.002429 s
Time: 12.647612 s, Deviation: 0.002641 s
Time: 12.708590 s, Deviation: 0.002798 s
Time: 12.746034 s, Deviation: 0.002405 s
Time: 12.807314 s, Deviation: 0.002940 s
Time: 12.867673 s, Deviation: 0.002471 s
Time: 12.905917 s, Deviation: 0.002894 s
Time: 12.966828 s, Deviation: 0.002585 s
Time: 13.004929 s, Deviation: 0.002881 s
Time: 13.066480 s, Deviation: 0.003013 s
Time: 13.104454 s, Deviation: 0.002854 s
Time: 13.166041 s, Deviation: 0.003033 s
Time: 13.204179 s, Deviation: 0.002584 s
Time: 13.265170 s, Deviation: 0.002836 s
Time: 13.303679 s, Deviation: 0.002900 s
Time: 13.364861 s, Deviation: 0.002935 s
Time: 13.403408 s, Deviation: 0.002793 s
Time: 13.464653 s, Deviation: 0.002842 s
Time: 13.503268 s, Deviation: 0.003030 s
Time: 13.563960 s, Deviation: 0.002677 s
Time: 13.602323 s, Deviation: 0.002779 s
Time: 13.682889 s, Deviation: -0.001362 s
Time: 13.743546 s, Deviation: 0.002893 s
Time: 13.782079 s, Deviation: 0.002715 s
Time: 13.843232 s, Deviation: 0.002857 s
Time: 13.881884 s, Deviation: 0.002763 s
Time: 13.942431 s, Deviation: 0.002414 s
Time: 13.981009 s, Deviation: 0.003010 s
Time: 14.041867 s, Deviation: 0.002627 s
Time: 14.080184 s, Deviation: 0.002974 s
Time: 14.140851 s, Deviation: 0.002582 s
Time: 14.201507 s, Deviation: 0.002422 s
Time: 14.239752 s, Deviation: 0.002632 s
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Time: 35.938526 s, Deviation: 0.002995 s
Time: 35.976883 s, Deviation: 0.002579 s
Time: 36.038078 s, Deviation: 0.002926 s
Time: 36.076824 s, Deviation: 0.003155 s
Time: 36.137955 s, Deviation: 0.002617 s
Time: 36.175823 s, Deviation: 0.002697 s
Time: 36.237186 s, Deviation: 0.002846 s
Time: 36.297932 s, Deviation: 0.002778 s
Time: 36.336029 s, Deviation: 0.002751 s
Time: 36.397305 s, Deviation: 0.002736 s
Time: 36.435024 s, Deviation: 0.002610 s
Time: 36.496380 s, Deviation: 0.003121 s
Time: 36.534039 s, Deviation: 0.002629 s
Time: 36.595383 s, Deviation: 0.002942 s
Time: 36.656528 s, Deviation: 0.002633 s
Signal Deviation Analysis (sine) - Real Timestamps:
Mean signal error: 0.010493 V
Standard deviation of signal error: 0.513697 V
Maximum signal error: 0.820184 V
Signal Deviation Analysis (sine) - Ideal Timestamps:
Mean signal error: 0.011100 V
Standard deviation of signal error: 0.507785 V
Maximum signal error: 0.752020 V
ADC Jitter Analysis (Phase Error, Arcsin Method) - Real Timestamps:
Mean phase error: -576.024508 rad
Standard deviation of phase error: 332.727042 rad
Mean phase error in windows (1.0 s): 8.963008 rad
High jitter windows (>0.05 rad): 37
High jitter windows (start time):
Window start: 0.000000 s
Window start: 1.000000 s
Window start: 2.000000 s
Window start: 3.000000 s
Window start: 4.000000 s
Window start: 5.000000 s
Window start: 6.000000 s
Window start: 7.000000 s
Window start: 8.000000 s
Window start: 9.000000 s
Window start: 10.000000 s
Window start: 11.000000 s
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Window start: 16.000000 s
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Window start: 30.000000 s
Window start: 31.000000 s
Window start: 32.000000 s
Window start: 33.000000 s
Window start: 34.000000 s
Window start: 35.000000 s
Window start: 36.000000 s
ADC Jitter Analysis (Phase Error, Arcsin Method) - Ideal Timestamps:
Mean phase error: -575.827562 rad
Standard deviation of phase error: 332.649415 rad
Mean phase error in windows (1.0 s): 8.978358 rad
High jitter windows (>0.05 rad): 37
High jitter windows (start time):
Window start: 0.000000 s
Window start: 1.000000 s
Window start: 2.000000 s
Window start: 3.000000 s
Window start: 4.000000 s
Window start: 5.000000 s
Window start: 6.000000 s
Window start: 7.000000 s
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Window start: 15.000000 s
Window start: 16.000000 s
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Window start: 18.000000 s
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Window start: 22.000000 s
Window start: 23.000000 s
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Window start: 27.000000 s
Window start: 28.000000 s
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Window start: 30.000000 s
Window start: 31.000000 s
Window start: 32.000000 s
Window start: 33.000000 s
Window start: 34.000000 s
Window start: 35.000000 s
Window start: 36.000000 s
Sine Fit Analysis - Real Timestamps:
Fitted amplitude: 0.314760 V
Fitted frequency: 4.999891 Hz
Fitted phase: 2.185314 rad
Fitted offset: 0.511659 V
Mean phase error (fit): -573.852512 rad
Standard deviation of phase error (fit): 332.719038 rad
Mean phase error in windows (fit, 1.0 s): 8.992888 rad
High jitter windows (fit, >0.05 rad): 37
High jitter windows (fit, start time):
Window start: 0.000000 s
Window start: 1.000000 s
Window start: 2.000000 s
Window start: 3.000000 s
Window start: 4.000000 s
Window start: 5.000000 s
Window start: 6.000000 s
Window start: 7.000000 s
Window start: 8.000000 s
Window start: 9.000000 s
Window start: 10.000000 s
Window start: 11.000000 s
Window start: 12.000000 s
Window start: 13.000000 s
Window start: 14.000000 s
Window start: 15.000000 s
Window start: 16.000000 s
Window start: 17.000000 s
Window start: 18.000000 s
Window start: 19.000000 s
Window start: 20.000000 s
Window start: 21.000000 s
Window start: 22.000000 s
Window start: 23.000000 s
Window start: 24.000000 s
Window start: 25.000000 s
Window start: 26.000000 s
Window start: 27.000000 s
Window start: 28.000000 s
Window start: 29.000000 s
Window start: 30.000000 s
Window start: 31.000000 s
Window start: 32.000000 s
Window start: 33.000000 s
Window start: 34.000000 s
Window start: 35.000000 s
Window start: 36.000000 s
Sine Fit Analysis - Ideal Timestamps:
Fitted amplitude: 0.304700 V
Fitted frequency: 4.999887 Hz
Fitted phase: 2.186095 rad
Fitted offset: 0.511766 V
Mean phase error (fit): -573.654794 rad
Standard deviation of phase error (fit): 332.643219 rad
Mean phase error in windows (fit, 1.0 s): 8.990732 rad
High jitter windows (fit, >0.05 rad): 37
High jitter windows (fit, start time):
Window start: 0.000000 s
Window start: 1.000000 s
Window start: 2.000000 s
Window start: 3.000000 s
Window start: 4.000000 s
Window start: 5.000000 s
Window start: 6.000000 s
Window start: 7.000000 s
Window start: 8.000000 s
Window start: 9.000000 s
Window start: 10.000000 s
Window start: 11.000000 s
Window start: 12.000000 s
Window start: 13.000000 s
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Window start: 15.000000 s
Window start: 16.000000 s
Window start: 17.000000 s
Window start: 18.000000 s
Window start: 19.000000 s
Window start: 20.000000 s
Window start: 21.000000 s
Window start: 22.000000 s
Window start: 23.000000 s
Window start: 24.000000 s
Window start: 25.000000 s
Window start: 26.000000 s
Window start: 27.000000 s
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Window start: 29.000000 s
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Window start: 31.000000 s
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Window start: 33.000000 s
Window start: 34.000000 s
Window start: 35.000000 s
Window start: 36.000000 s
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I feel your pain, man. "There's some actual work I should really be doing right now...or I could do this experiment I'm curious about!" ;) ;)
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I'm more curious if there's any simple way to detect potential jitter in the signal that triggers the ADC - especially this jitter doesn't have to be the same as the one seen in the timestamp :) Theoretically it seems simple, but in the real world where we have noise, the generator also has some jitter, etc. it becomes more complicated... Generally, it is about statistical analysis, and the matter is somewhat complicated by the lack of a generator with very high stability, low noise, low jitter, etc.
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Yesterday my crooked hands got to the SDM3065X.
I am confused by the 30V voltage of the LM399 heater.
I found that the TL072 op-amp next to the LM399 in the power supply harness, with external heating of the op-amp before and after turning on the DMM, we get a small change in readings. A voltage of 30V is applied to it, which leads to its self-heating from the moment of switching on, which entails a failure in the DMM heating process.
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It is odd to see a TL072 for U11. In other photos I saw from the 3065 there is a AD8622 as a low drift OP-amp. From the area it is where the reference is scaled down and the auxiliary voltage to provide the ref. current.
30 V supply (likely +-15 V) is for the heater of the reference. A relatively high voltage is beneficial and the reference runs hot anyway.
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I replaced U11 - TL072 with OPA2187. U11 generates 10V. Maybe for some autocalibration or AutoZero.
Now regarding VREF and 10V. SDM3065X uses AD7175-2 ADC. Its Vref+ voltage is 2.448xx (around 2.5) V. It is taken from resistive divider RR5 via buffer U41 (AOL*?), which divides 6.9V to 2.5. Resistors RA4/6 form a tracking divider and RA5 participate in the 10V generator. I doubt that resistors RA4/6 and RA5 are thermally stable.
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From the data codes it looks like the AD8622 is the newer of the meters. A suitable alternative could be the OPA2202, that is not even that expensive.
An AZ amplifier could cause some issues, so I would more avoid it.
A 10 V voltage level could be an auxiliary voltage to generate the current to the reference. This part would not be super critical - the LM399 is pretty low output impedance and thus super picky about the current. It is just that the normal 15 V supply is not ideal.
The 10 V could be used for a step to check the high voltage divider, but I don't think there are enough relays to do this. For this test the 10 V would not need to be super stable. So the simple resistors and TL072 would be good enough for this.
For the 20 V range one would use the 7 V ref. directly and not a crude 10 V. So the TL072 could still be good enough, though a bit odd.
The reference buffer U41 would be way more critical. Having the critical divider RR5 rather close to the LM399 would have it in a slightly warm area with somewhat reduced temperature swing (e.g. like 60% room temperaure and 40% of the 90 C ref. temperature). It could be intenional or just the space that is available.
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On my SDM3065X, U11 is an AD8622.
Voltages measured against 0V.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2620307;image)
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Yesterday my crooked hands got to the SDM3065X.
I am confused by the 30V voltage of the LM399 heater.
I found that the TL072 op-amp next to the LM399 in the power supply harness, with external heating of the op-amp before and after turning on the DMM, we get a small change in readings. A voltage of 30V is applied to it, which leads to its self-heating from the moment of switching on, which entails a failure in the DMM heating process.
Well, the very very old TL07x opamp's are very noisy. Just :palm: why there are used on a such gear.
My vote would be the OPA1656 Ultra-Low Noise as flicker noise counts too.
It would be nice to know witch SDM3065X series comes with such noisy TL072
Just my 2 cents.
Hp
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Greedy marketers |O
Also installed are cheaper resistive dividers and resistive arrays. In mine there is a flat white SMD array instead of a DIP array. :-//
I have OPA1656, maybe install it
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The OPA1656 would make little sense at this position. The relevant point here is about the lower frequencies like the 0.1 - 100 Hz frequency band.
The OPA1656 is a great audio OP-amp, but not that good in the low frequency range and it is a bit power hungry.
In the low frequency / DC performance the AD8622 or OPA2202 are superior.
Normally I would not replace the TL072 - for just 10 V to providing the current it would be good enough.
The PCBs are also different: the version with the AD8622 has the 7 V buffer to drive the RR5 divider for the 2.5 V ref.
The version with the TL072 has RR5 directly connected to the reference. The OP-amp at pins 1,2,3 is configured as a buffer (could be unused) and the 10 V seem to come from the OP.amp at pins 5,6,7.
So there is more than just the OP-amp changed.
The white ceramic resistor array may not be that bad. A similar type (same look but could well be other values) are used in the KS3446x.
Most of the 7 to 2.5 V step should be from RR5.
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The second time I didn't desolder the op-amp very carefully. But I also removed the LM399 (I have a very-very bad idea )) )
Now you can see the circuit in a little more detail.
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This clearly indicates that it is a multi-layer board, as the anode (pin 2) and the heating connection (3) are not continued on the bottom side.
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The OPA1656 would make little sense at this position. The relevant point here is about the lower frequencies like the 0.1 - 100 Hz frequency band.
The OPA1656 is a great audio OP-amp, but not that good in the low frequency range and it is a bit power hungry.
In the low frequency / DC performance the AD8622 or OPA2202 are superior.
Normally I would not replace the TL072 - for just 10 V to providing the current it would be good enough.
The PCBs are also different: the version with the AD8622 has the 7 V buffer to drive the RR5 divider for the 2.5 V ref.
The version with the TL072 has RR5 directly connected to the reference. The OP-amp at pins 1,2,3 is configured as a buffer (could be unused) and the 10 V seem to come from the OP.amp at pins 5,6,7.
So there is more than just the OP-amp changed.
The white ceramic resistor array may not be that bad. A similar type (same look but could well be other values) are used in the KS3446x.
Most of the 7 to 2.5 V step should be from RR5.
Well, I suggested a FET opamp for replacement. Any other transistor related may have other impacts to the circuits.
IMHO, best to have the real circuits to study and may do any simulations.
Otherwise it will be a try and error.
As the VREF figures of the ADC's will be one of the important impacts how the results will be showing. As the PCB layout too.
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I am confused as to what is going on with this random desoldering and replacement of components.
At this point LM399 heat shield is damaged and it was desoldered and resoldered again?
Whatever instrument adjustment was is not valid anymore...
There are few threads here where very knowledgeable members upgraded and replaced some parts on some very precise DMMs.
But they had a plan and they knew exactly what they were doing, including that their calculated predictions beforehand agreed very well with results.
What is the end goal here? Is there a plan?
Just curious.
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I plan to supply external power to the heater, so that the LM399 is always heated, even when the multimeter is turned off from the front panel. Before disassembling, I measured the voltage on my demo board with ADR1399, and it was 6.90986 V when turned on and 6.90943 V after half a day at room temperature +25 °C.
But before that, I want to make sure that the absence of heating contacts on the board (since I will supply external power to them) will not cause problems.
If everything is ok, then I will be able to record the drift of the readings from the moment of turning on until the moment of heating the whole multimeter with the already heated LM399. In this way, I hope to find out the TC of the VRef driver circuit. ???
p.s. LM399 is completely intact and the DMM did not deviate in readings, after a small melting of the upper part. I wanted to know the TC with external heating of LM399 and heated it with a soldering iron tip, forgetting that I had changed the tip temperature from 100C to 300C instead :palm:
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I don't see a connection for the 2nd OP-amp output of the TL072. So chances are this is an unused buffer.
The LM399 and AFAIK also the ADR1399 has very little hysteresis and rather fast settling after turn on. So there is little need to keep the reference hot all the time. There is more the downside of faster aging. The long term dirft is mainly set by the time the reference is hot, with very little happening when cold. In may test I could hardly see the turn on dirft from the LM399 - so no much happening after some 10 seconds or so.
The part more prone to hysteresis and some slow settling after turn on would be the RR5 divider, at least from PCB stress.
The TL072 does not look great, but it should be good enough as the LM399 is not that picky about the reference current - that is if enough current is provided. R5A looks like 10 K and this would be only 0.3 mA and very much on the low end for the LM399. The specs call for > 0.5 mA. There may be another resistor in parallel - at at least there should be to provide more like 1 mA. With the parts removed (and thus one side of R5A largely isolated), maybe measure the resistance over R5A to check. Too low a current could be an issue, though I would not expect such a basic mistake.
The reference should not mind about the load from a BJT based OP-amp - an AZ type could be an issue however.
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I plan to supply external power to the heater, so that the LM399 is always heated, even when the multimeter is turned off from the front panel. Before disassembling, I measured the voltage on my demo board with ADR1399, and it was 6.90943 V when turned on and 6.90900 V after half a day at room temperature +25 °C.
But before that, I want to make sure that the absence of heating contacts on the board (since I will supply external power to them) will not cause problems.
If everything is ok, then I will be able to record the drift of the readings from the moment of turning on until the moment of heating the whole multimeter with the already heated LM399. In this way, I hope to find out the TC of the VRef driver circuit. ???
p.s. LM399 is completely intact and the DMM did not deviate in readings, after a small melting of the upper part. I wanted to know the TC with external heating of LM399 and heated it with a soldering iron tip, forgetting that I had changed the tip temperature from 100C to 300C instead :palm:
Keeping LM399 powered on all the time is exactly the opposite of what manufacturer recommends (and practice too) for long term stability.
LM399 ages only when powered (and more than some because of high temperature setpoint)
Because of that high temp setpoint it has pretty much no hysteresis.
LM399 stabilises before instrument boots.
Same as your previous comments about how you think voltage for the heater is too high. Actually, manufacturer points that faster aging is connected with high heater current, so the recommend to keep voltage high, current can be even limited to not exceed some value at cold start if longer warm up time is acceptable and LM399 can be additionally thermally insulated to keep power dissipation low (if ambient temperature is low. If ambient temperature is high then obviously that is not needed or wanted.)
Power up warmup of the meter is mainly other components, thermal gradient over the board and instrument case and similar factors.
Instrument warm up time is result of system design.
Solution to warm up time of instrument? Power up on time and give it 1-2 hours to stabilise.
Some very famous instruments need 24 hours to warm up. I don't know of any 6.5 digit meter that needs less than 1 or 2 hours to stabilise to last digit ( to 1 ppm level) to ambient temperature.
If I were you, I would make detailed photos of the meter inside, paying attention to construction details. Where is the air flowing? stuff like that. And stop getting close to the meter with an soldering iron until you know exactly what you can do and why.
Pretty much you must know it will work before you solder it in. That is why we do design
Bridge designer draws a bridge, calculates everything. Designer knows, with 100% certainty it will hold when built. Bridge is 100% proven to be good before single shovel of the ground is removed.
You don't randomly throw buckets of concrete in the air over the river and hope your "prototyping" will result in a bridge.
Same thing with electronics.
Best,
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Thank you very much guys! Thanks to you I thought of measuring the difference in stabilization with and without a heater. I applied a current of 1 mA to the zener diode and measured the voltage, it was 6.85385 and when applying voltage it really stabilized quite quickly at a value of 6.85387. I measured using a heated HP34401. As you said, the problem is not in the LM399. The question remains open regarding RA5 and RR5. RA5 is 10 kOhm (I measured it).
Heating U11 and the LM399 itself greatly affect the surrounding resistors (RA4 / 6, RA5, RR5). I have two thoughts. Organize a high-quality reference stable power supply unit for 2.5 and 10 volts and then recalibrate the DMM or leave it as is and accept it as 5.5 DMM ...
P.S. Just please don't use architecture/engineering design as an example. I've been involved in industrial optimization for over 10 years, including military design. Where there is a person, there are always mistakes and shortcomings. I had to correct many "very smart" engineers and programmers. Especially when the issue concerned the quality/money ratio.
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It is not so bad the RR5 and RA5 get hot. The hot part of the temperature (the LM399) is stabilized and this stabilization would partially still work to the warmer regions near the LM399. RA4,5,6 are not that critical anyway. A change there should be attenuated by a factor of about RA5 / Z_ref (~0.5-1 ohm) or about 10000 fold.
The point I find odd is the value for RA5 which would suggest too little current for the LM399 reference. The point that they changed the circuit from the cheap tl072 to the relatively expensive AD8622 suggests that they saw an potential issue in this area. The changed version at least removes the RR5 array as extra load from the reference. So they have a little more current to the reference (still only some 350 µA instead of some 250-300 µA, while the datasheet wants > 400 µA). It is still an expensive way to get a little more ref. current.
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The point I find odd is the value for RA5 which would suggest too little current for the LM399 reference.
Based on the first image from post #2139, I cannot imagine that RA5 is the resistor that limits the current through the reference.
Pin 1 of the reference is connected to pin 5 of U11, to RA5 and RR5, and via RR5 to a potential that could possibly be 15V.
Unfortunately, pin 2 of the reference is not visible.
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I'd say that's a good reason not to attempt these sorts of mods without a reliable schematic. Whoever designed that circuit didn't do it blindly or alone.
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In the picture with the parts removed much of the reference circuit is quite clearly visible.
Pin 2 of the reference is the negative side and should go towards ground. Here the layout details are not visible and there may be an extra path for current compensation (e.g. resistor to -15V) to avoid much of the trace resistance effect. It would however not make much of a difference for the rest of the circuit.
RR5 should be connected to ground at the other side and would divider the 7 V down to 2.5 V. It would not make sense to have the precision divider towards 15 V. Pin5 of U11 is an input and thus provides essentially no current.
There is a path via R57 and D505. With a diode it would be less suitable to provide a stable current. Chances are this is the path for the start up from some 5 V. So it would not provide current in normal operation.
The visible circuit corresponds to the standard circuit around the LM399 and R5A would be the resistor to set the current. The only oddity is having 10 K and not some 5 K for RA5. Mistakes (especially simple ones) sometimes happen in complex designs. Borderline cases are not easy to catch in testing.
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I'd say that's a good reason not to attempt these sorts of mods without a reliable schematic.
You can see that from the fact that the layout on my SDM is different at U11; the pin assignment is not the same as on the 3065 from Korchahin.
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Installed AD8672 instead of LT072. Returned LM399 back.
Recorded the readings of my standard on the old LM399.
07/16/2025 was 06.90943. Today after assembly and warming up the readings are 06.90945.
After a week of experiments, Siglent SDM3065X showed a deviation in the last digit of 20 μV. In turn, HP34401 demonstrates simply impeccable measurement repeatability. I want to replace RA5 with 5 kOhm (3 kOhm?). But I understand that changing the current can greatly deviate the readings. At the same time, the voltage / current on RR5 can also change. For now, I'm postponing the experiments until it becomes possible to calibrate it. Then I will continue torturing it.
Thank you all very much for your help and instructions!
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With a change in R5A there would be quite some change in the voltage readings. With 5 K I would expect something like 0.5 mV more for the 7 V reference voltage and thus connespondingly lower readings. So a new adjustment would be needed for most ranges (the ohms part may just get away without). The change in the current to RR5 would be just the small change in the scale factor.
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Installed AD8672 instead of LT072. Returned LM399 back.
Recorded the readings of my standard on the old LM399.
07/16/2025 was 06.90943. Today after assembly and warming up the readings are 06.90945.
After a week of experiments, Siglent SDM3065X showed a deviation in the last digit of 20 μV. In turn, HP34401 demonstrates simply impeccable measurement repeatability. I want to replace RA5 with 5 kOhm (3 kOhm?). But I understand that changing the current can greatly deviate the readings. At the same time, the voltage / current on RR5 can also change. For now, I'm postponing the experiments until it becomes possible to calibrate it. Then I will continue torturing it.
Thank you all very much for your help and instructions!
User Adjustment/Calibration is a standard feature with modern firmware installed IF you have accurate Cal standards.
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After a week of experiments, Siglent SDM3065X showed a deviation in the last digit of 20 μV. In turn, HP34401 demonstrates simply impeccable measurement repeatability.
As a matter of principle, I wouldn't trust the last digit of a multimeter, neither on the Siglent nor on the HP.
Regardless of whether it fluctuates like with siglent or remains “nice and steady” like with HP.
Then the Siglent is set to 10 PLC and 10 G ohms – was this also done on the HP?
Final:
The supplied voltage: is this the “original” value, is the calibrated value known, is the calibration still valid?
Is the measured value still within the tolerance of the SDM3065X?
If so, there is no need to tinker with the SDM.
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As I have two SDM3065x models as with AD8622 as SDM360GBD4Rxxxx serials.
Currently I do not have any calibration references, so did input shorted test on both with the settings:
DC: 200mV 100PLC, No Auto Zero, 10G
AC: 200mV 20Hz Filter
The goal was to check how this perform on shorted inputs. In other words to check how low levels could be measured.
Input Shorted Cold Hot (1h)
[Device 1] [mV] [mV]
AC 0.05 0.08
DC 0.003 0.002
[Device 2] [mV] [mV]
AC 0.18 0.19
DC -0.006 -0.01
Conclusions: The AC seams on device [2] as IMHO a bit off. As the DC may OK. How does your device(s) perform?
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Would it not be better to Rel the short then check measurement repeatability ?
What did you use for the short ?
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Would it not be better to Rel the short then check measurement repeatability ?
What did you use for the short ?
Used given SDM3065x cables. So please drop a line for standardized short cut so all uses the equal setup.. even one floating requires earth connections too or not.
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The AC reading with a short is tricky, as the analog RMS converter does not really work for near zero readings. For the reason the AC specifications are usually only for > 1% FS or so and below some 0.01% FS the actual readings can very quite a bit between units.
For a slow reading of the small DC voltage one would normally use the AZ mode. So 100 PLC and non AZ mode is an odd combination, that is hardly relevant. The point with the low voltage performance is not so much one reading, but looking at the noise and drift over a few hours.
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Would it not be better to Rel the short then check measurement repeatability ?
What did you use for the short ?
Used given SDM3065x cables.
Oh, the 2x 1m antennas ?
So please drop a line for standardized short cut so all uses the equal setup.. even one floating requires earth connections too or not.
No Volt Nut here other than knowing when down in the uV region every little thing matters where buddy Defpom gets out his shielded cables and Banana plug shorts.
(https://www.pomonaelectronics.com/sites/default/files/styles/product_image__500px_x_450px_/public/products/slideshows/1167.jpg?itok=wPRuKvhn)
(https://ae-pic-a1.aliexpress-media.com/kf/Sbf4f2f9e60f04577b55d973347cbd1f0X.jpg_220x220q75.jpg)
The Performance Versus Integration Time chart on P9 in the Service manual is worth a study.
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDM3065X_ServiceManual_SM06036-E02F.pdf (https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDM3065X_ServiceManual_SM06036-E02F.pdf)
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>> Oh, the 2x 1m antennas ?
YES, as both SDM3065x stacked as using the same antennas and one gear is may more sensitive to the other, how knows :scared:
For me as the DC looks as differential and currently do not know whether the AC is differential too. While 200mV get anyway amplified to the internal ADC.
IMHO, it requires any shielded differential connections as to avoid the antennas & GND at the backside to connect.
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One thing to consider is when checking with shorted inputs...
The calibration isn't done at 0V on DC, it is done at 1% of full scale, so for 200mV range it is at 2mV, 200V range it is 2V etc, with the values below the cal point being calculated, if the - and + lower cal points are not quite set correctly you will see a jump as it goes between them around the 0V reading depending upon where it calculated the 0V to actually be.
Also the DC has two sets of calibrations, one for negative voltages and one for positive, so if you are sitting at 0V it could easily be toggling between the - and + calibration points if they overlap the 0V very slightly (which can happen), if the calibration was done well enough it should be almost impossible to see where it is, you may only see a couple of counts change.
AC does use a 0V cal point for all ranges, both filtered and unfiltered.
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Hello. I have a SDM3045X that after a long time, I was able to fix it's boot freeze issue. In that thread, I included the full protocol and file link from Siglent. If you want me to provide it directly to you, just ask. Now my question. I need a replacement bail handle for my meter. Siglent support USA is no help. Can't even provide any links, overseas or anywhere. I'm having trouble finding anything myself. If some kind soul has any insight, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
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Now my question. I need a replacement bail handle for my meter. Siglent support USA is no help. Can't even provide any links, overseas or anywhere. I'm having trouble finding anything myself. If some kind soul has any insight, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
:o :-//
The tilting bail is a real spare part and any from SDM and all the cheaper SDG models are interchangeable.
Siglent HQ don't provide us parts lists but we can show the image of it on P41 of the SDG1000X Service manual.
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/25_03_07/SDG1000X_ServiceManual_SM0201X-E01C.pdf
Last time I sourced one a few years back from HQ they were so cheap it wasn't worth the paperwork to invoice a valued client.
Keep pestering Ohio until you find someone with an ounce of sense.
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Could you provide a link for Siglent HQ. Again, thanks..
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I just emailed Siglent HQ in China. Hopefully it will lead somewhere.
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I just emailed Siglent HQ in China. Hopefully it will lead somewhere.
Hope you told them NA wasn't much use.
Still you'll get referred back to them and hopefully with someones email.
HQ will be on deck in a couple hours and you should get a reply within 8.
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I just received a response from a Siglent engineer in China. He asked for the meters serial number, so I'm crossing my fingers.
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I just received a response from a Siglent engineer in China. He asked for the meters serial number, so I'm crossing my fingers.
What ever for ?
Maybe he just needed to check you had one. :-//
Most of the time they are pretty good but always make you needs are very clear as English is not their 1st language.
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He typed English very well, but I'll make sure. And I'll keep you posted. Thanks.
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I'm still waiting. I also sent him a cropped snip of the handle from the manual PDF you pointed me to. Thanks again.
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After initially not having any luck with Siglent support in the US, I contacted Siglent in both Europe and China. But what happened was that they both sent my requests back to Siglent USA where they found a handle in their "junk" pile. :phew: They are sending it to me free of charge. Persistence pays off, sometimes anyway. I appreciate ALL the help I've received from the kind folks here on EEVBlog.!
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Freshly bought DMM6500 (cal'd 2024) vs SDM3065X (cal'd 2022) after warmup. They stay off by 26-27ppm all the time, stable at least.
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Freshly bought DMM6500 (cal'd 2024) vs SDM3065X (cal'd 2022) after warmup. They stay off by 26-27ppm all the time, stable at least.
You can adjust the SDM3065X to match the DMM6500 if you want. The stability is key, and the accuracy adjustment takes care of the rest.
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Sadly it's a 3045X with the 3055X firmware. I don't have the knowledge or confidence to update it with the Telnet / Linux protocol so that it displays itself as a 3055X. The handle is with UPS on it's way to me. :)
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Freshly bought DMM6500 (cal'd 2024) vs SDM3065X (cal'd 2022) after warmup. They stay off by 26-27ppm all the time, stable at least.
You can adjust the SDM3065X to match the DMM6500 if you want. The stability is key, and the accuracy adjustment takes care of the rest.
Yea I’m planning to do that, its a nice option. For now, Im waiting for a solution to the transformer issue in the DMM6500, I still have 10 days left to return it.
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Freshly bought DMM6500 (cal'd 2024) vs SDM3065X (cal'd 2022) after warmup. They stay off by 26-27ppm all the time, stable at least.
You can adjust the SDM3065X to match the DMM6500 if you want. The stability is key, and the accuracy adjustment takes care of the rest.
Yea I’m planning to do that, its a nice option. For now, Im waiting for a solution to the transformer issue in the DMM6500, I still have 10 days left to return it.
Do it anyway! At least your Siglent will be more accurate while you wait for a repair/replacement of the Keithley. ;)
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How does Relative mode really work on these meters? Like if I set relative zero on the 200mV range, do I really need to reset it on the 2V range? What about on the 200V range where there's no 10G input impedance?
I was doing some 4-wire resistance measurements on 200R range, and the DMM was already on for hours, and the room temp was fairly stable. But it seemed I would zero the meter, then minutes later the zero would be off if I checked a short again. Although maybe I wasn't waiting longer enough for the circuit to thermally settle again for a short circuit.
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How does Relative mode really work on these meters? Like if I set relative zero on the 200mV range, do I really need to reset it on the 2V range? What about on the 200V range where there's no 10G input impedance?
I was doing some 4-wire resistance measurements on 200R range, and the DMM was already on for hours, and the room temp was fairly stable. But it seemed I would zero the meter, then minutes later the zero would be off if I checked a short again. Although maybe I wasn't waiting longer enough for the circuit to thermally settle again for a short circuit.
I have the SDM3065X, and when I used it for a similar small range measurement, I frustrated myself by the temperature impacts of my hands on the various probes, shorts, and parts. I switched to wearing gloves, and things were more settled.
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Replaced LM399 with ADR1399. At the same time, replaced the bootstrap op-amp with AD8672 and added RC 5Ohm+1uF parallel to the zener diode.
ADR1399 is selected close to the stabilization voltage of 6.9V to the previously installed LM399.
After that, I got a deviation in the voltage readings. Later I will recalibrate.
At the moment, the stability is excellent, as well as the minimal deviation of readings from the moment of switching on to many hours.
There is a suspicion that Siglent uses defective (fake) LM399. Because I installed this LM399 that I unsoldered from the DMM on the test board. And I got very bad noise level indicators (+-50 µV), bad TCS. I have not studied this LM399 much yet and maybe I am doing something wrong.
Attention! All my experiments are my creativity and do not pretend to be the truth! Do not repeat my actions!
to be continued...
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There is a suspicion that Siglent uses defective (fake) LM399.
That wouldn't necessarily be the conclusion I would draw from all this tinkering.
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Moved here from another thread:
1. There is a known bug in version V1.01.01.27R2
2. We need to update to the latest version. Telnet does not work over LAN since V1.02.01.27R2
3. It works, but only with SD with all losses, the main thing is calibration. On newer ones, as we wrote here, it remains.
Update from my weekend work:
The sd-recover was complete successful!
As stated before by tautech - the factory calibration has been retained.
After updating to V1.01.01.27R2, I backed up the calibration file via telnet.
(/usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/DMM_calibration.xml).
Now I am much more relaxed!
Out of pure interest:
Could a factory calibration file be copied to the user directory or vice versa?
The names are identical, but are the files for factory and user calibration identical in structure?
I haven't performed a user calibration yet, so I have no user cal file for a compare.
When/if a User Cal/adjustment is applied you still have the Factory Cal saved to recall.
There is no need to save any external files.
Actually, I am very happy with telnet.....
Does version V1.02.01.27R2 really have a buggy or non-working telnet?
No bug fix is listed for V1.02.01.28.
Oh yes there is !
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=26
This FW adds support for the SCD30A external 30A current shunt.
What bug is known in V1.01.01.27R2?
While the Release notes aren't listed in the download page linked previously they are plainly listed in the V1.01.01.27R2 revision notes in the FW download PDF.
Please do more homework before making such statements.
I will only update to V1.02 when I know for sure that telnet port 23 works.
For what need exactly ?
....there is no (official?) way going back to V1.01!
Correct, V1.02 is a major update and improvement.
Take note, it is not like any previous FW update and seems to take an age to complete due to it being a full system update.
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There is a suspicion that Siglent uses defective (fake) LM399.
Was that suspicion before or after you molested it with a soldering iron?
:-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
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There is a suspicion that Siglent uses defective (fake) LM399.
Was that suspicion before or after you molested it with a soldering iron?
:-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
Outcome = Factory Cal is now useless after replacement of the VRef :scared: :horse:
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There is a suspicion that Siglent uses defective (fake) LM399.
Was that suspicion before or after you molested it with a soldering iron?
:-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
Outcome = Factory Cal is now useless after replacement of the VRef :scared: :horse:
I think the axiom goes something like: "If you're looking for trouble, you will find it."
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After a change of the reference the factory calibration is to notally useless, but of limited use. The Ohms part should still be OK and ratios between the ranges should also not change.
Soldering the extra capacitor directly at RR5 is not such a good idea: this dual resistor is likely the divider for the ADC referene and thus a critical part. The extra soldering stress can give additional drift from settling.
I would not expect Sigilent using fake LM399. I don't see a cheap alternative to get somewhat plausible performance. It is still a bit odd that from the pictures / reverse engeniering the reference is run with a rather low current, a bit below the recommended minimum. The metal case should not be very sensitive to heat from unsoldering / soldering. The danger is more ESD damage.
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In the photo in my post above, you can see how much the readings differ from the actual ones.
1. Of course, I informed that the factory calibration would be invalid. And in the message I wrote that I would recalibrate it.
2. The current resistor for ADR1399 is set to 1.3k.
Soldering the extra capacitor directly at RR5 is not such a good idea: this dual resistor is likely the divider for the ADC referene and thus a critical part. The extra soldering stress can give additional drift from settling.
I'm sure it will be not noticeable in this 6.5 DMM.
But thanks. I'll think about where to move the RC. Maybe to the back side of the board...
I would not expect Sigilent using fake LM399. I don't see a cheap alternative to get somewhat plausible performance. It is still a bit odd that from the pictures / reverse engeniering the reference is run with a rather low current, a bit below the recommended minimum. The metal case should not be very sensitive to heat from unsoldering / soldering. The danger is more ESD damage.
I was just confused by the lack of markings on the lm399 IC's itself.
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Soldering the extra capacitor directly at RR5 is not such a good idea: this dual resistor is likely the divider for the ADC referene and thus a critical part. The extra soldering stress can give additional drift from settling.
I'm sure it will be not noticeable in this 6.5 DMM.
But thanks. I'll think about where to move the RC. Maybe to the back side of the board...
It is about the heat stress to the resistor array. So the stress aready done and little need to move it. Drift of the resistor pair would add to the reference drift. The resistor drift may be really a relevant part to the overall drift.
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Don't know if I should start a separate thread for this, but here goes.
Is there any way for the end user to adjust the calibration on an SDM3055?
I have a 5.5 digit Fluke and a 6.5 digit HP that agree with each other across the board, however the Siglent disagrees in certain ranges considerably out of spec. :-//
By the time I pay shipping, brokerage and insurance to and from Siglent NA, and pay for the calibration, I could almost buy a new one. This is not something I feel compelled to do. Especially since I could get another Fluke or HP for under $250 which I can calibrate.
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Use the User Cal feature.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZZg605ioI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZZg605ioI)
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Thanks Josh,
I did a firmware upgrade around the the fleet in June, but I guess I had a brain fart with the SDM3055. The user calibration was not available with the version (1.01.01.25) I was still on. Just updated and now it's there! Go figure!
:-+
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Thanks Josh,
I did a firmware upgrade around the the fleet in June, but I guess I had a brain fart with the SDM3055. The user calibration was not available with the version (1.01.01.25) I was still on. Just updated and now it's there! Go figure!
:-+
Best bit, if you make a mess of the Cal you can at anytime just recall the Factory Cal. :phew:
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Yeah, it's an awesome feature for sure. And a great excuse to buy references and other things. ;)
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I found some time to run my three DMM from the same source (9V battery).
After settling down (approx. 2h) I do not have the need to fiddle with internals of my 3065.
Seems that all 3 DMM are in spec (or all are wrong??)
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I found some time to run my three DMM from the same source (9V battery).
After settling down (approx. 2h) I do not have the need to fiddle with internals of my 3065.
Seems that all 3 DMM are in spec (or all are wrong??)
An indication of each of their ages and any Cal info please ?
Pretty good result IMHO otherwise fear becoming a voltnut ! :scared: :-DD
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I found some time to run my three DMM from the same source (9V battery).
After settling down (approx. 2h) I do not have the need to fiddle with internals of my 3065.
Seems that all 3 DMM are in spec (or all are wrong??)
An indication of each of their ages and any Cal info please ?
Pretty good result IMHO otherwise fear becoming a voltnut ! :scared: :-DD
The SDM3065 is now 4y old, the other about 25y+ and havn't seen a cal lab for decades.
Some years ago, after overcoming the strong demand to become a time nut I got the heavy desire to find a 7...8 digit DMM but I avoid this rabbit hole too.
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I got the heavy desire to find a 7...8 digit DMM but I avoid this rabbit hole too.
Stay strong! ;) ;)
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I found some time to run my three DMM from the same source (9V battery).
After settling down (approx. 2h) I do not have the need to fiddle with internals of my 3065.
Seems that all 3 DMM are in spec (or all are wrong??)
An indication of each of their ages and any Cal info please ?
Pretty good result IMHO otherwise fear becoming a voltnut ! :scared: :-DD
The SDM3065 is now 4y old, the other about 25y+ and havn't seen a cal lab for decades.
Some years ago, after overcoming the strong demand to become a time nut I got the heavy desire to find a 7...8 digit DMM but I avoid this rabbit hole too.
I didn't overcome it. I have two K2001M that I repaired and had one run through calibration.
I continuously tell myself that two 7.5s is 15 and I don't need an 8. It's not working.
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I didn't overcome it. I have two K2001M that I repaired and had one run through calibration.
I continuously tell myself that two 7.5s is 15 and I don't need an 8. It's not working.
I agree, you need an 8.5! Two 7.5s isn't helping, so you should send me one of them. ;) ;)
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I found some time to run my three DMM from the same source (9V battery).
After settling down (approx. 2h) I do not have the need to fiddle with internals of my 3065.
Seems that all 3 DMM are in spec (or all are wrong??)
An indication of each of their ages and any Cal info please ?
Pretty good result IMHO otherwise fear becoming a voltnut ! :scared: :-DD
The SDM3065 is now 4y old, the other about 25y+ and havn't seen a cal lab for decades.
Some years ago, after overcoming the strong demand to become a time nut I got the heavy desire to find a 7...8 digit DMM but I avoid this rabbit hole too.
Can I ask, with that stack of 3 bench meters, how often would you use them all at the same time on a project ?
Is it useful them being all different to keep track of which one you are probing with ?
I have an idea.... :box: for meters with color displays to be able to assign different colors to bench meter readout digits to assist when using different measurement types and/or multiple meters.
Eg, users could use a probe color band identification like we do on scopes to color mark meter leads and have the readout color to match.
IMO this could be useful when a stack of the same brand/model meters are used.
Comments welcomed.
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Rob is pretending he's immune from TEA.
Yeah, right. That's obviously not why he runs a test equipment dealership.
So, how do you turn TEA into a self sustaining lifestyle?
:-DD :-DD :-DD
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Sorry Bill, you have to be willing to sell some of the gear for that to happen. :-DD
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Rob is pretending he's immune from TEA.
Yeah, right. That's obviously not why he runs a test equipment dealership.
So, how do you turn TEA into a self sustaining lifestyle?
:-DD :-DD :-DD
;D
For decades all I had was junk TE and never enuf time to pursue my lifelong hobby. :horse:
Family, work and other hobbies drew attention away for electronics for far too long but now in my later years TE is my focal point every waking day.
I first used a scope at 13 and 30yrs later was given a busted one to fix and when I got my head around CRO's, fixed and flogged many more until I witnessed DSO's gaining hold in the market where one thing led to another and I teamed up with Siglent, first visiting them briefly in 2014 while doing a 4 day stopover in Hong Kong and a further 2 day business trip in 2024 to match all the emails with faces.
It was for me lucky timing plus a love for TE after the decades of only owning rubbish compared to the incredible gear you can get today for just a few 100 bucks.....many spend more on grog. :popcorn:
Sorry Bill, you have to be willing to sell some of the gear for that to happen. :-DD
Yup.
First get rid of the old stuff to have a few $ in the kitty for new stock and the sale profits start funding all desires for new toys......that also double as demo models owned by your company and also available for income tax reductions. (capital expenditure and depreciation)
I'm not immune to TEA but all my acquisitions in the last decade are of brand spanking new stuff to soothe that itch....and with a warranty !
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I found some time to run my three DMM from the same source (9V battery).
After settling down (approx. 2h) I do not have the need to fiddle with internals of my 3065.
Seems that all 3 DMM are in spec (or all are wrong??)
An indication of each of their ages and any Cal info please ?
Pretty good result IMHO otherwise fear becoming a voltnut ! :scared: :-DD
The SDM3065 is now 4y old, the other about 25y+ and havn't seen a cal lab for decades.
Some years ago, after overcoming the strong demand to become a time nut I got the heavy desire to find a 7...8 digit DMM but I avoid this rabbit hole too.
Can I ask, with that stack of 3 bench meters, how often would you use them all at the same time on a project ?
Is it useful them being all different to keep track of which one you are probing with ?
I have an idea.... :box: for meters with color displays to be able to assign different colors to bench meter readout digits to assist when using different measurement types and/or multiple meters.
Eg, users could use a probe color band identification like we do on scopes to color mark meter leads and have the readout color to match.
IMO this could be useful when a stack of the same brand/model meters are used.
Comments welcomed.
I started the beautiful hobby of electronics in East Germany at the age of 14. My first oscilloscope was a Russian 5 MHz scope. I spent a lot of time building measuring devices myself, for example frequency counters or tone generators. Most of the time it was about audio amplifier construction. Then I worked a lot at the university with digital electronics and microprocessor technology (Z80).
After the "fall of the Berlin Wall" in 1990, the hobby unfortunately fell asleep for many years due to the completely new life situation for me as an East German - I'm in a different business now.
In the last 6 years I have unpacked the old boxes again and set up a new hobby workplace. Since I now also have the financial means, a lot of TE accumulates that I would have always liked to have, sometimes without a concrete project. For example, now 7 devices from Siglent alone. Just like you, I am also a collector and hunter.
In anticipation of my imminent retirement, I also got my radio amateur license this year. I still have far too little time for the hobby, but that will certainly change.
I have never used all three 6.5 Digit DMMs together, because I also own two very good handheld DMMs (and 4 or 5 not so good). But I'm happy to own it.
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I found some time to run my three DMM from the same source (9V battery).
After settling down (approx. 2h) I do not have the need to fiddle with internals of my 3065.
Seems that all 3 DMM are in spec (or all are wrong??)
An indication of each of their ages and any Cal info please ?
Pretty good result IMHO otherwise fear becoming a voltnut ! :scared: :-DD
The SDM3065 is now 4y old, the other about 25y+ and havn't seen a cal lab for decades.
Some years ago, after overcoming the strong demand to become a time nut I got the heavy desire to find a 7...8 digit DMM but I avoid this rabbit hole too.
Can I ask, with that stack of 3 bench meters, how often would you use them all at the same time on a project ?
Is it useful them being all different to keep track of which one you are probing with ?
I have an idea.... :box: for meters with color displays to be able to assign different colors to bench meter readout digits to assist when using different measurement types and/or multiple meters.
Eg, users could use a probe color band identification like we do on scopes to color mark meter leads and have the readout color to match.
IMO this could be useful when a stack of the same brand/model meters are used.
Comments welcomed.
I use multiple bench DMMs all the time doing repairs. I also use mulple power supplies. The current project to dianose and repair an SRS DG535 is a good example.
I need to figure out where the current draw is across two boards. The system has +15, -15, +8, -8, 5, 0, and a 10 volt rails in various places. The current draw I'm looking for is in the -8 rail but that subs into a -2volt and a -5volt on the second board. This is the most meters I've ever used similtaneiously while testing.
2 are watching the current on the -2 and -5 sub-rails. 3 are watching voltages, and I'm using a handheld to do spot checks.
I have three power supplies going and its a mess of red and black leads everywhere. I spend a lot of time double checking the probe for where it connects to a meter or supply. If I understand your idea, I could use a matched color display with leads; if so, TAKE MY MONEY!! I've fried a couple of parts due to mistakes caused by confusion on which probe goes where.
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Seems that all 3 DMM are in spec (or all are wrong??)
Interesting, my K2000 also measures -40uV.
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For a quick measurement, I'm more likely to use 3 or 4 bench DMMs vs setting up the channels on my DAQ. If it's something I might do frequently that I can save presets in the DAQ for, I might use that alone instead.
Besides the 3 6.5 digit DMMs, I like using my SDM3055X-E often when more accuracy isn't needed; and I appreciate the lack of fan noise. And, if I'm being honest, more accuracy is usually not needed. lol
It's nice to have options. ;)
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So my SDM3065X is around 4yo, and only has the original factory calibration. That's ok for what I do, but how much might it have drifted since then ?
I'm in no rush to pay for a re-cal, and I'd like to get some old Electrometer, or an old old calibrator (but I bet they still cost too much for my hobby uses).
I should buy or make some reference circuits next year, and see how they, and my DMM's change over time.
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So my SDM3065X is around 4yo, and only has the original factory calibration. That's ok for what I do, but how much might it have drifted since then ?
I'm in no rush to pay for a re-cal, and I'd like to get some old Electrometer, or an old old calibrator (but I bet they still cost too much for my hobby uses).
I should buy or make some reference circuits next year, and see how they, and my DMM's change over time.
1 yr drift specs are in the datasheet.....by that time the reference should be aged enough to have little future drift.
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/23_04_12/SDM3065X_DataSheet_E03A.pdf
Just check with whatever Cal lab you might use that they can/will adjust if necessary as not all know these units allow for User adjustment to get all ranges exactly on spec.
See the OP in this thread for the video by Defpom about User adjustment.......remembering you can always recall the Factory Cal should something go wrong.
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I don't know if this is intentional or not, but the *RST SCPI command disables user calibration.
If you're using TestController, you should remove the *RST from the #finalCmd so that your user calibration isn't disabled when you close TC.
Thanks,
Josh
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Oops, one of our four SDM3045X failed for calibration this time.
The report is not yet available, but regardless of that, I think it's a little too early for that to happen when the oldest device is only three years old.
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Oops, one of our four SDM3045X failed for calibration this time.
The report is not yet available, but regardless of that, I think it's a little too early for that to happen when the oldest device is only three years old.
Can't the lab do adjustments? The User Adjustment settings are simple enough.
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First and foremost, such a laboratory only determines what should be and what is.
If the meter deviates from its basic specifications, it is simply out of spec and not in spec.
Then it can either be corrected or the device must be sent to the manufacturer.
Personally, I consider this “user calibration” function to be a temporary crutch; it does not correspond to the factory settings, it is a cosmetic measure that can be used temporarily before the device is actually and professionally adjusted.
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First and foremost, such a laboratory only determines what should be and what is.
If the meter deviates from its basic specifications, it is simply out of spec and not in spec.
Then it can either be corrected or the device must be sent to the manufacturer.
Personally, I consider this “user calibration” function to be a temporary crutch; it does not correspond to the factory settings, it is a cosmetic measure that can be used temporarily before the device is actually and professionally adjusted.
I guess that depends on the lab. It seems not a lot of labs know how to adjust them otherwise.
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Ha, I guess I'm a little spoiled. I was going to sell my SDM3055X-E because it didn't fit on my workbench anymore with the 6.5 digit meters.
It occurred to me that a silent bench meter on my computer desk would be nice. Now I can follow a circuit on my computer and test with the meter on my desk, rather than being stuck with paper on my bench (or sliding in my office chair back and forth between the desk and bench lol).
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I guess that depends on the lab. It seems not a lot of labs know how to adjust them otherwise.
only some labs can make factory level adjustment and usually they have agreements for servicing certain brands equipments on some area
service training, kits and documentations are usually expensive to get
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I guess that depends on the lab. It seems not a lot of labs know how to adjust them otherwise.
only some labs can make factory level adjustment and usually they have agreements for servicing certain brands equipments on some area
service training, kits and documentations are usually expensive to get
I was kinda referencing one of the official labs Siglent uses telling another member to throw out their meters because they can't be adjusted. :--
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There may not be that much difference between the user calibration and the factory calibration procedure. One obvious point is that the factory adjustment is not directly readable and can be used as an easy fall back. This may already be the main difference.
There could still be a few more extra points, that usually don't need a re-adadjustment, except maybe after some repairs in critical areas. The AC part gain would be such a possibly tricky aread. However this is not different from other meters. These may also have a factory adjustment procedure that is no available at most cal labs.
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Does Siglent have any plans for a 7.5D DMM ? I was tempted to get an old one, but I went with a digital Keithley 616 electrometer instead. IDK what to expect with that, but I'll learn about it over time.
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See
New one is already released SDM4075A 7 1/2 digits with 50000 rdgs/s.
https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm4075a/ (https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm4075a/)
Not sure when/if it will be available.
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On their page,
"Parameters: storage
Maximum 2 million degrees"
What? ... Well there goes the warranty.. and half the city.
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This is a little weird. The attached firmware has been on the Chinese support site since October, but the international site hasn't been updated yet?
I haven't tried it since mine is an SDM3055X-E...except for the sticker. ;)
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This is a little weird. The attached firmware has been on the Chinese support site since October, but the international site hasn't been updated yet?
This is an old firmware version. You can find the latest versions here: https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/
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This is an old firmware version.
Ah, you're right! I just checked again, and it was a glitch. The SDM3045X didn't show up at all this time (only the SDM3055X-E version). Fun! ;)
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When are we finally going to see a firmware update for these? We're coming up on 3 years since the last update for the SDM3065X.
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There are three different types of updates.
Pure bug fixing, feature enhancements, or both.
If there are no more serious bugs, I don't think there's much point in “investing” in enhancements.
Especially since the new 4000 series is out.
Of course, I could be wrong. ;)
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There are three different types of updates.
Pure bug fixing, feature enhancements, or both.
If there are no more serious bugs, I don't think there's much point in “investing” in enhancements.
Especially since the new 4000 series is out.
Of course, I could be wrong. ;)
There's an update that's been due for a while. At the very least it's supposed to add compatibility for their desktop app.
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I wish at least they would update the 3065x to a version which eliminates the pulsating power LED in standby mode.
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What "Standby Mode" is this? I have never seen a standby mode option and checking the last two user manual versions I have to hand give no hint of such an option. The power indicator LED, whilst excessively bright (use of a black marker pen cures this), is completely extinguished when the meter is switched off.
P.S. I forgot to mention that my bench meter is the SDM3065X model. This might explain the difference.
Also, on closer examination of the power button this morning, I see that, despite its emulation of a simple on/off toggle switch like those used by the SDL1020X-E and the SDG2042X, that it is in fact a momentary on/off switch. :o
Presumably, if there is a later software update available and I upgrade it, I too might experience the pulsating power led effect (although not quite so annoying in my case on account of the black marker pen 'mod') 8) :) :-DD
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Mine has the latest available firmware (as far as I know of) and when you switch it "off" (which is not actually off, its a soft-button) the power LED will pulsate/"breathe". I find that annoying. My 3055 didn't have that anymore with the latest firmware available for that model (which is I believe a year newer than the latest for the 3065X). I don't know how it is with the 3045X though.
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My 3055
HW Version 03-00-00-13-00
SW Version 1.02.01.28 (latest)
does show the pulsing LED.
And yes, it would be nice to have that configurable. But it's not that a point, as my lab runs behind a switched power bar anyway.
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My 3055
HW Version 03-00-00-13-00
SW Version 1.02.01.28 (latest)
does show the pulsing LED.
And yes, it would be nice to have that configurable. But it's not that a point, as my lab runs behind a switched power bar anyway.
Strange, I have the same SDM3055 with same HW and SW. My LED is off when the DMM is not switched on.
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My SDM605X LED is also off when the DMM is off. My KS34465A and DAQ6510 both have amber LEDs lit when off. They're all connected to a PDU connected to a UPS anyway, so not a big deal here either way.
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I just wanted them to add the support for the 30A current shunt to the 3065X so it shows up in current mode like was done for the 3055 for proper readout, although with that said, I have moved the 3065X into storage and replaced it with the Keithley DMM7510, so that is not so important to me any more.
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From this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-multimeter/msg6172347/#msg6172347 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-multimeter/msg6172347/#msg6172347)
We can't seem to get the SDM3065X Histogram to display a typical graph, and in this example using Zero DCI (Input Open Circuit), with plenty of samples. We've tried Auto and Manual modes with various settings but unable to get a respectable Histogram.
The SDM is running the latest firmware all all the meters have over 1hr warmup. Note the DMM and KS display typical Histograms in Auto mode as expected for Zero DCI.
Any guidance, help or comparisons are appreciated.
Best
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Just powered SDM3065X off and back on. The Histogram Auto Mode shows the same type display where the high-low range is much too high, same as before. However the Manual Histogram Mode settings now seems to display a better result altho shows some "zero bins" within the typical Bell display shape which is puzzling? These are equally spaced which hints that's this a computational error rather than actually not having ADC sample values within these bin ranges.
Edit: Likely the range is too small for the Histogram display for the lowest current range of +-200ua, as 10na is ~20k smaller than the total range.
Best
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Yep ... equally spaced. Rounding error or resolution?
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Yep ... equally spaced. Rounding error or resolution?
I think indeed rounding errors. I experience the same kind of behaviour when I am logging stuff on my Siglent 3065X vs. the Keysight 34465A and my Picotest M3500A.
Attached graph makes this probably a little more clear. Notice the flat pieces in the trace from the 3065X compared to the other ones.
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Just powered SDM3065X off and back on. The Histogram Auto Mode shows the same type display where the high-low range is much too high, same as before. However the Manual Histogram Mode settings now seems to display a better result altho shows some "zero bins" within the typical Bell display shape which is puzzling? These are equally spaced which hints that's this a computational error rather than actually not having ADC sample values within these bin ranges.
Edit: Likely the range is too small for the Histogram display for the lowest current range of +-200ua, as 10na is ~20k smaller than the total range.
Best
Turn off auto zero and/or reduce the aperture setting.
Comparison in a range with less sensitivity will have less data than running the other devices at higher sensitivity. Keithley/Keysight both set to 100uA, and Siglent set to 200uA in the photo.
Also note that the Keithley has more options for how the histogram is displayed/functions.
Thanks,
Josh
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Josh,
Here's a result with Auto Zero OFF. This makes the Average magnitude slightly higher (as expected) and SD a little lower, but still displays the empty bins as shown.
Best
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Here's a result with Auto Zero OFF. This makes the Average magnitude slightly higher (as expected) and SD a little lower, but still displays the empty bins as shown.
What NPLC do you have set? I haven't been able to get the empty bins to show, but I get very little data on there if the NPLC isn't set fast like .06 or .006. You must have more interesting noise. ;)
ETA: You should also note along with my previous comment about higher resolution coming with more noise, that the bins are also different. You're showing 400 bins on the KS and 100 on the Siglent. Assuming auto, I also assume that's because of the extra noise data. I would manually set the bins and the ranges closer together, unless the comparison is less interesting than the gaps.
Also, I think it's fairly safe to assume there's always some level of averaging happening on the SDM. Or at least that's what it looks like when tracking data for a long time.
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Here's a couple examples why I think there's averaging (not that we have any choice that I'm aware of to set sample numbers or anything like that).
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Here's a result with Auto Zero OFF. This makes the Average magnitude slightly higher (as expected) and SD a little lower, but still displays the empty bins as shown.
What NPLC do you have set? I haven't been able to get the empty bins to show, but I get very little data on there if the NPLC isn't set fast like .06 or .006. You must have more interesting noise. ;)
ETA: You should also note along with my previous comment about higher resolution coming with more noise, that the bins are also different. You're showing 400 bins on the KS and 100 on the Siglent. Assuming auto, I also assume that's because of the extra noise data. I would manually set the bins and the ranges closer together, unless the comparison is less interesting than the gaps.
Also, I think it's fairly safe to assume there's always some level of averaging happening on the SDM. Or at least that's what it looks like when tracking data for a long time.
NPLC is 10 in all the examples we've shown, for all meters. The SDM3065X Bins are set to 40, which is what the DMM6500 was also set too. The KS34465A selects the Bin size when in Auto Mode which is what we had shown.
BTW we are more interested in seeing how the SDM3065X compares with the new SDM4000 (why we started this investigation over on the SDM4000 thread), we already know how the SDM3065X compares with the KS34465A and DMM6500 (did such long ago!). The SDM3065X Auto Histogram mode seems to scale the range much too wide and thus only shows a narrow sliver and why we just showed the DMM6500 an KS34465A for reference of what a typical Auto Histogram looks like.
Best
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BTW we are more interested in seeing how the SDM3065X compares with the new SDM4000 (why we started this investigation over on the SDM4000 thread), we already know how the SDM3065X compares with the KS34465A and DMM6500 (did such long ago!). We just showed the DMM6500 an KS34465A for reference of what a typical Histogram looks like for others.
That makes sense. I'm curious about the SDM4065A as well. I'd like to know if it also has some sort of averaging applied like its little brother appears to have. Either way I want one. ;)
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BTW we are more interested in seeing how the SDM3065X compares with the new SDM4000 (why we started this investigation over on the SDM4000 thread), we already know how the SDM3065X compares with the KS34465A and DMM6500 (did such long ago!). We just showed the DMM6500 an KS34465A for reference of what a typical Histogram looks like for others.
That makes sense. I'm curious about the SDM4065A as well. I'd like to know if it also has some sort of averaging applied like its little brother appears to have. Either way I want one. ;)
We made some edits above, see previous post.
The Display (Trend and Histogram) of the SDM3065X seems limited compared to other lab grade DMMs, and doesn't have the overall ranges of these instruments. It's an OK instrument and value considering the price tho.
Best
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The Display (Trend and Histogram) of the SDM3065X seems limited compared to other lab grade DMMs, and doesn't have the overall ranges of these instruments. It's an OK instrument and value considering the price tho.
Indeed. Certainly some room for improvement, but IMO I think it's pretty close to the Keysight. I have not been able to get the gaps you have yet tho.
I think the Keithley destroys them both by comparison. Knowing that Siglent very clearly copied the Keithley for the 4000 series platform, I'm curious if they copied the trend/histogram too.
I'm running a test now with 10VDC to compare with something more reliable than 0 DCI current noise.
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I don't normally use the histogram, so I hadn't really seen the defecit yet. Running a 10VDC test made it very clear.
I stand by my opinion about the Keithley being by far superior in this regard, but the Keysight isn't too bad. I like the visual range/averaging stuff the KS shows, and it also has cursor options. Keithley has a cute peak highlight when it's less obvious where the average is. The Siglent is not keeping up with this feature set at all, and the histogram itself is lacking. Maybe that's what's holding up the next firmware update? ;)
Thanks,
Josh
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One other thing that I think is sad about the 3000 series is the lack of even a basic web server. The SDM3000X series was an obvious copy of the Keysight 3446XA series, so why didn't they copy that too??
I do think it's funny tho that KS didn't bother to update the virtual console at all.
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Histogram looks better in Temp, though they still do a poor job of using the Y axis/vertical space.
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Has anybody made any thermistor tables for these meters?
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Did anything ever get resolved for being able to go local and remote at the simultaneously?
I actually wish that my SDM3065X didn't lock the front panel when using the remote interface at all.
I wanted to control and send the readings from "Test Controller" to display on screen when I live streams, but also I need to be able to control the meter from my desk as I am working on something, as it stands right now I have to choose between using the meter at the bench OR having the readings in test controller (or any other SCPI control interface).
Rob can you please put a request through to Siglent to have them allow local AND remote control simultaneously, so it just responds to controls from whichever it gets a command from, whilst also updating the screen and sending SCPI readings at the same time.
Done.
They go on CHY soon so it might be a couple weeks before we get any reply.
2022, the year of the tiger !
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Hello everyone here.
does any have photos of SDM3065X-SC internals? I see SDM3065X photos here without SC1016 installed. Im interested is anyone installed this scanner card manually or it was impossible and secret procedure without official service.
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Hello everyone here.
does any have photos of SDM3065X-SC internals? I see SDM3065X photos here without SC1016 installed. Im interested is anyone installed this scanner card manually or it was impossible and secret procedure without official service.
If you search this thread, the information is already there. There is missing hardware in the non-SC version, and the card cannot be installed. The newer versions of the non-SC model also don't have the cutout on the rear panel.
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Thanks,
but didn't find image with -SC model. to compare with my owned pcb.
to try see missing chips. Pinout of connector found on another thead here. But not image with card installed.
problem as i see: missing components. and software...i didnt catch is firmware will 'see' attached hardware or there is some patching of flash/eeprom needed.
Cutout of panel is the simplest thing in entire process as i see it (i own CNC so no problem at all).
Hello everyone here.
does any have photos of SDM3065X-SC internals? I see SDM3065X photos here without SC1016 installed. Im interested is anyone installed this scanner card manually or it was impossible and secret procedure without official service.
If you search this thread, the information is already there. There is missing hardware in the non-SC version, and the card cannot be installed. The newer versions of the non-SC model also don't have the cutout on the rear panel.
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Hello everyone here.
does any have photos of SDM3065X-SC internals? I see SDM3065X photos here without SC1016 installed. Im interested is anyone installed this scanner card manually or it was impossible and secret procedure without official service.
You didn't check the POI list in the OP that would take you here to discussion on retrofitting SC:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5020645/#msg5020645 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5020645/#msg5020645)
Read most of this page.
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Hi!
I already do it before posting. didnt found pictures of -SC . only 3065X and 3055X. i mean pictures with chip IC installed. and probably the space around him.
sorry
Hello everyone here.
does any have photos of SDM3065X-SC internals? I see SDM3065X photos here without SC1016 installed. Im interested is anyone installed this scanner card manually or it was impossible and secret procedure without official service.
You didn't check the POI list in the OP that would take you here to discussion on retrofitting SC:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5020645/#msg5020645 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5020645/#msg5020645)
Read most of this page.
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There is a video in this thread that shows a teardown of an SDM3065SC (with the scanner installed).
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5021824/#msg5021824 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5021824/#msg5021824)
It looks like there is 1 THT connector and 1 IC not installed in the non SC version. Not sure what the IC is but it could be something like a buffer or driver for the relays on the scanner card.
There may not be much difference in the firmware - likely the different model type in the configuration part (like with 3045 / 3055E), but that could be about it.
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I see it. i mentioned already. no IC and its surrounded space can be seen in hi-res. sadly but only guess of parts. no details in video.
There is a video in this thread that shows a teardown of an SDM3065SC (with the scanner installed).
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5021824/#msg5021824 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5021824/#msg5021824)
It looks like there is 1 THT connector and 1 IC not installed in the non SC version. Not sure what the IC is but it could be something like a buffer or driver for the relays on the scanner card.
There may not be much difference in the firmware - likely the different model type in the configuration part (like with 3045 / 3055E), but that could be about it.
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I make an order on Ali for SC1016 card. Will see what i can guess when (and IF) i got it in my hands :horse:
I know thats like very crazy project/idea. But i was interested.
Bunch of random sellers told me that Siglent completely refuses to sold any 'installation kit'. only SC1016 card itself.
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I wish at least they would update the 3065x to a version which eliminates the pulsating power LED in standby mode.
...in this case you probably only need FW 3.02.01.13, which was already installed on my DMM when buying from welectron.com (2025.02.25):
(https://imghoster.de/images/2026/03/29/FW-3.02.01.13f7ceb57c74a70218.md.png) (https://imghoster.de/image/hgSbW)
The Siglent HP shows FW "SDM3065X_Firmware_V3.01.01.12R1 (Release Date 04.27.23 )" as the latest one:
(https://imghoster.de/images/2026/03/29/Siglent.md.png) (https://imghoster.de/image/hgjK7)
...don't know why...
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I wish at least they would update the 3065x to a version which eliminates the pulsating power LED in standby mode.
...in this case you probably only need FW 3.02.01.13, which was already installed on my DMM when buying from welectron.com (2025.02.25):
The Siglent HP shows FW "SDM3065X_Firmware_V3.01.01.12R1 (Release Date 04.27.23 )" as the latest one:
...don't know why...
That is odd. Maybe Tautech can shed some light on this?
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I wish at least they would update the 3065x to a version which eliminates the pulsating power LED in standby mode.
...in this case you probably only need FW 3.02.01.13, which was already installed on my DMM when buying from welectron.com (2025.02.25):
The Siglent HP shows FW "SDM3065X_Firmware_V3.01.01.12R1 (Release Date 04.27.23 )" as the latest one:
...don't know why...
That is odd. Maybe Tautech can shed some light on this?
The funny thing is, that - over a year ago, when I wanted to put the DMM into operation, I thought that it was dead, because my SDS1202X-E, which sits there for ages, conditioned me, to wait for the pulsating power LED in standby mode.
Than I realized, that they obviously changed it with this newer FW.
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Some firmware versions only account for hardware change support, and aren't released on the update site if it doesn't benefit older hardware versions. That could be the reason.
They are supposed to be releasing another firmware version that adds support for things like their newer remote software. Who knows when that will be though. 🤷
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They are supposed to be releasing another firmware version that adds support for things like their newer remote software. Who knows when that will be though. 🤷
I wonder if Siglent will do that for this model after all this time but it it would be a real nice gesture of course.
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They are supposed to be releasing another firmware version that adds support for things like their newer remote software. Who knows when that will be though. 🤷
I wonder if Siglent will do that for this model after all this time but it it would be a real nice gesture of course.
I'd be more surprised if they didn't. They have an excellent track record in that regard. It's still an active product, and I think they said they were going to. It's at least implied by the software.
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Here are two DMM6500 for quick comparision to my SDM3065 within 8 months. The second DMM is 20 month after last cal (so is in 2year cal period now).
I can assume the DMM6500s are pretty close to each other in absolute values, nice. SDM3065 is still good.
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i got my SC1016 card from some china supplier. Interested thing i notice: all suppliers that i reached in contact told me "single legend": Siglent refuses completely to sold any mount kit or anything except sc1016 card itself + cage for it + pcb with 2 connectors attached. (this is seen on my photos).
So cables with connectors, unknown IC that should be soldered on dmm board - missing.
the cable and connectors itself are not problem but currently didnt known anything about missing on-board chip that should be soldered. still cant found hires photos of that part of PCB on the internet. From some site on the internet i found that missing chip called "driver" and besides it there is should be additional resistor named R164 (on screenshot).
thats all for now. continue searchig for photos
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Hi,
In addition to the missing chip (U203) and a few resistors, there is another “problem.”
The firmware is the same for the 3065X and 3065X-SC; that's correct.
The missing chip won't “tell” the system later on that it's now an SC version.
That happens elsewhere, specifically in the model configuration.
Only that can “tell” the system that it has a scanner card and thus enable the corresponding options in the firmware, so that the relevant menu items appear.
So it’s not enough to just buy the scanner card and a few other bits and pieces from dubious sources.
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If it's just a matter of changing the ID then that's not that hard if he can get access in the system.
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Correct, if he can..
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Wouldn't this just be a comparison function of the firmware with and without? I mean, that doesn't sound hard given both are readily available in the market and you can simply return one after copying the firmware.
Maybe I missed something?
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Wouldn't this just be a comparison function of the firmware with and without? I mean, that doesn't sound hard given both are readily available in the market and you can simply return one after copying the firmware.
Maybe I missed something?
It's the same firmware either way. The assumption here is that the device ID is what opens the features for the SC.
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The firmware on my 3065X is maybe 1yo, I'm just wondering about the screensaver setting, and if big changes in reading ever wake the screen back up, like when you short your probes on continuity mode ? Or do you always have to press a button ? I know on other modes, changes in readings would be irrelevant. I'm guessing you can change the timeout in the settings, or disable SS.
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You have to press a button to wake the screen. If you need it to stay awake longer, change the setting. I had to do that when I was working on that 7700 card previously. I needed to confirm the beeps around 500Ω. I was annoying myself with the shorter time before I changed it lol.
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probably that single resistor is a point where firmware 'obtains' feature enable bit "-SC". because its dead simple and allows factory pipeline processes be simple for various models switch.
what other needs could there be for this one element otherwise?
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probably that single resistor is a point where firmware 'obtains' feature enable bit "-SC".
Probably not. ;)
The SC “Area” on my SDM4065-SC is the same as on the SDM3065-SC, so the chip is also the same.
And just to prove I'm right, here's the U203 driver chip..... ;)
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i will open my SC3065X and search for that magic mentioned unsoldered R164. probably its pin traces will show something.
P.S. thanks for photo. ordered TI buffer.
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SDM3055 had a recent firmware update (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3055-series) 1.02.01.29R1.
What do they mean with "Add automatic power-on function."?
Revise History (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/04/SDM3055-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions-1.02.01.29R1.pdf)
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SDM3055 had a recent firmware update (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3055-series) 1.02.01.29R1.
What do they mean with "Add automatic power-on function."?
Revise History (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/04/SDM3055-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions-1.02.01.29R1.pdf)
These have a soft power ON, in that the power button tells the mainboard to start as the power is already there.
An Auto power ON feature is in many of their other instruments allowing instant boot once mains power is supplied.
Very useful for a bench with a master power switch......
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Now I hope they will get the 3065X also more up-to-date (to get rid of that annoying pulsating power LED) :)
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I barely notice the PWR LED any more, but I also unplug the meter if I'm not using for more than a couple of days, mainly to save it from any craziness that could be on the mains. Do these DMM's run the full PSU all the time to keep the PSU up to temp, or do they go into lower power STBY ? I'm just wondering.
I keep putting off opening up most of my Siglent stuff to just clean the dust out. I'm interesting in some of the lower noise fan mods too.
How does the 3065X measure large resistors ? I have an old 100M 5% carbon comp. that was OL on the siglent, but measured 126.7Meg on a BM869s and 132.0M on a Keithley 616 Electrometer. I have to check the new 100M 1%'s I have, they were spot on on the 869s
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I barely notice the PWR LED any more, but I also unplug the meter if I'm not using for more than a couple of days, mainly to save it from any craziness that could be on the mains. Do these DMM's run the full PSU all the time to keep the PSU up to temp, or do they go into lower power STBY ? I'm just wondering.
I keep putting off opening up most of my Siglent stuff to just clean the dust out. I'm interesting in some of the lower noise fan mods too.
How does the 3065X measure large resistors ? I have an old 100M 5% carbon comp. that was OL on the siglent, but measured 126.7Meg on a BM869s and 132.0M on a Keithley 616 Electrometer. I have to check the new 100M 1%'s I have, they were spot on on the 869s
Did you figure out "The (no brainer) Work Around" to this resistance measurement limitation? :)
Just curious because it's now 6 days since you posed the question with no helpful response, presumably on account of the presumption that, being a "Math Wizard", you'd have had no problem using Ohm's Law and a separate test voltage (bench supply or a PP3 battery or two) to drive a test current you could measure on the 200μA DC current range.
As for your question regarding the possible use of a low power standby mode, such a feature is a definite "No No!" for an instrument that requires a minimum of 30 minutes or more warm up time to provide its specified accuracy. Power demand is only a modest 13 watts anyway (about the same as that of the SDG2042X) so could be left powered 24/7 with little impact on the electricity bill (and even less if it's only powered for 8 to 12 hours per working day).
Almost forgot, the only annoying issue with the power on indicator LED was its extreme brightness (it extinguishes completely when shut down via the soft power button) which I fixed by the judicious application of a black ink permanent marker pen to attenuate it to a more tolerable level. :)
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Like many bench DMMs the SDM3065 measures the very high resistors > 10 M with internal 10 M resistor (likely the high voltage divider) and than the 10 M range and than the DUT in parallel.
For the work around method one can use the lowest current range or for really high reistors use the 2 V range with 10 M input resistance to measure currents up to 200 nA.
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Heh, the SDM3055X-E works with EasyDMM-X, but the SDM3065X still doesn't.
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Heh, the SDM3055X-E works with EasyDMM-X, but the SDM3065X still doesn't.
Version V1.0.3 ?
Wet day here so a good one to check some stuff....
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Version V1.0.3 ?
Yup.
Wet day here so a good one to check some stuff....
I hope you find something good. ;)
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Heh, the SDM3055X-E works with EasyDMM-X, but the SDM3065X still doesn't.
Version V1.0.3 ?
Yup.
And SDM3065X FW Version V3.01.01.12R1 ?
And I don't have one to check. :palm:
IIRC there's a later FW version in factory fresh units but it hasn't yet been made available to the public.
Can anyone out there confirm there is a later SDM3065X FW version and it works with EasyDMM-X ?
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And SDM3065X FW Version V3.01.01.12R1 ?
And I don't have one to check. :palm:
IIRC there's a later FW version in factory fresh units but it hasn't yet been made available to the public.
Can anyone out there confirm there is a later SDM3065X FW version and it works with EasyDMM-X ?
Yup, the same firmware from over 3 years ago. However, for EasyDMM-X:
Firmware upgrade required:
Device Requirement
This software is an upgraded version of EasyDMM, the 3000X series of host computer software, and is compatible with its main functions. This software also expands its functionality by adding support for the 4000A series.
3000X Series
3045X/3055X/3055X-E, Version 1.02.01.28 and above. 3065X, Version 3.02.01.13 and above
4000A系列
4055A/4065A, Version 0.0.0.13 and above
My SDM3055X-E is on V2.02.01.16R1, which was recently released.
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Raised directly with Siglent HQ and in their private forum thread.
Should get some action........
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Heh, the SDM3055X-E works with EasyDMM-X, but the SDM3065X still doesn't.
I couldn't help but try it here, but it seems to work.
My firmware version is the latest (3.01.01.12R1) and HW Version 02-02-00-05-00
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I couldn't help but try it here, but it seems to work.
My firmware version is the latest (3.01.01.12R1) and HW Version 02-02-00-05-00
Interesting! Are you connected via USB or Ethernet?
I have the same HW and FW versions as you, but it doesn't work via Ethernet.
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The SDM3065X is the best DMM I own or ever used, so to people that use these and say K2000/2010 or say the Aglilent 34465 (icr the #'s) or whatever 6.5D version was around a few years ago, or even the older 6.5D ones from the early 2000's
I don't need another DMM, I'm just wondering what all pro's/con's you folks notice ?
Johnny do you mean the Sig DMM only goes to 100M or maybe just over, I know that.
Does the siglent use the common ratio-metric way of measuring resistors, I can't remember exactly the details but yeah I've worked it out before.
But that's not they only way DMM's measure resistance either, right ?
On my Keithley 616, those 100M 1%'s from digikey were spot on, like 100.3M or so on the 1 I checked, I don't even want to risk touching them tho so I never measured more.
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The SDM3065X is the best DMM I own or ever used, so to people that use these and say K2000/2010 or say the Aglilent 34465 (icr the #'s) or whatever 6.5D version was around a few years ago, or even the older 6.5D ones from the early 2000's
I don't need another DMM, I'm just wondering what all pro's/con's you folks notice ?
I'm connected via Ethernet.
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The SDM3065X is the best DMM I own or ever used, so to people that use these and say K2000/2010 or say the Aglilent 34465 (icr the #'s) or whatever 6.5D version was around a few years ago, or even the older 6.5D ones from the early 2000's
I don't need another DMM, I'm just wondering what all pro's/con's you folks notice ?
You're right- you don't need another DMM, it's a great meter. There are pros and cons for each of the meters though.
The largest con for the SDM3065X is the reference is not pre-aged/selected on the same level of the other meters. That mostly means that the reference stability will take time before it improves/catches up to other comparable meters.
You can see in the attached screenshots, it did exceptionally well compared to more expensive meters. However, you can also see from the chart that it appears to have some sort of averaging applied, despite no user control to adjust that. If you compare those charts to some of my older charts, you can see it certainly improved over time.
Another con for the SDM3065X is the lack of a web console. Not a big deal since it works fine with TestController, but it would be nice to have one.
For pros, the SDM has a lot of great features I'm sure you're familiar with, like graphing, logging, etc.
For the most part, the SDM3065X is actually a copy of the 34465A. The 34465A has better stability, but they could also learn a little from Siglent. For example, the SDM allows you to control the range of the continuity test, which improves its response speed. More importantly, that's useful for tracing circuits out if you want it to buzz at higher than 10Ω, which IIRC is what the 34465A is locked to.
Comparing the 34465A, SDM3065X, and DAQ6510 WRT continuity, the SDM3065X is the slowest. By default, 34465A is the fastest audible response, and DAQ/DMM is the fastest visual update. However, with the awesome scripting system on the modern Keithleys, the Keithley can be faster both visually and audibly making it the best for continuity (see the link in my signature ;)).
Getting beyond that, there are specific measurement types where one meter does outperform another (low current, or high resistance, etc.) but if that hasn't been an issue for you, it's probably not important. I'm sure others can chime in with those specific details.
A couple things people like about the older meters you referred to: fast boot time, sometimes quiet operation if there's no exhaust fan, potentially great stability thanks to a well-aged reference, etc. They're also fun to work on to repair or play with modifications or upgrades.
IME, support is ranked Keithley > Siglent > Keysight. Keithley is expensive, but excellent. Siglent is usually good, but not as fast to respond, or as frequent to provide updates. Keysight kinda sucks in this regard. Their 344XXA platform hasn't had a firmware update in years, and it could certainly use one. They're also sometimes slow to respond, and always expensive.
YMMV. ;)
Oh yeah, my favorite is the DAQ6510 (same analog board as the DMM6500). I really like the feature set, workflow, interface, web console, etc. The touchscreen isn't for everybody though.
Thanks,
Josh
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I'm connected via Ethernet.
Are you sure about your firmware version?:
My firmware version is the latest (3.01.01.12R1) and HW Version 02-02-00-05-00
If that's correct, then maybe that's why. Mine says 3.02.01.12R1. Same hw version for me tho.
Thanks,
Josh
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Continuity tests from a few years back:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4840136/#msg4840136 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4840136/#msg4840136)
Also added to OP POI list.
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I don't like those tests. They're not as useful for humans. ;)
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I don't like those tests. They're not as useful for humans. ;)
What do we use then ?
Continuity requirements for each of our needs is different.
Rate vs interval vs pulse width is what makes up a continuity test experience.
I don't know of any standard continuity test but I do like the way Joe does it .....
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I'm planning to make a video with a fair human-centric comparison test.
I was going to make it a year ago, but a marketing director from a certain TE manufacturer promised me a certain touch-screen DMM that was new to the market. So, I put it off until he was able to send it. Unfortunately, that never happened, and well, you know. It's a year later now. I will get to it though sooner than later. 🤷
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I'm planning to make a video with a fair human-centric comparison test.
Hardly something we could all agree on though.
What can we determine from datasheets for Continuity test performance might be a good starting point.
Siglent 6.5 digit models specify:
Response Time 300 samples/sec, with audible tone
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Johnny do you mean the Sig DMM only goes to 100M or maybe just over, I know that.
Does the siglent use the common ratio-metric way of measuring resistors, I can't remember exactly the details but yeah I've worked it out before.
But that's not they only way DMM's measure resistance either, right ?
If you examine the DC Characteristics table in the datasheet, you'll see that they're using a constant current source to develop a test voltage that directly equates to the volt drop across the resistor under test. For the 200 and 2k ranges, this is 1mA which generates a reading of 200mV and 2v respectively. The readings are used directly to show ohms and kilo ohms respectively by merely relabeling the voltage readings as ohms and kilo ohms respectively. This technique is common to just about every DMM.
I take it that your reference to "common ratio-metric way of measuring resistors" is the method used by purely analogue (moving coil) multimeters whereby an adjustable voltage source is trimmed to generate a full scale current reading when shorting the probe leads to the zero ohms mark is fed to the (appropriately current shunted) moving coil via fixed resistors that appropriately match the mid scale deflection ohms reading on each resistance range.
As far as I'm aware, not even the cheapest of 2 1/2 digit DMMs used anything other than the classic constant current source method to generate a voltage reading across a resistor that can be directly enumerated as an ohms reading.
I notice that for the 100M ohms range, they use the same 200nA constant current as the 10M ohm range but with (if I understand correctly) a 10M ohm shunt resistance, presumably to keep the voltage within the 100mV limit they seem to have imposed on all three M ohm ranges. However, I don't think this 100M ohm range can be classed as a ratio-metric method in the sense of my interpretation of your reference to ratio-metric.
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I'm planning to make a video with a fair human-centric comparison test.
Hardly something we could all agree on though.
We'll see. My test will make it fair for people to come to their own conclusions. Granted, the sample size will need to be larger than just my meters, so other people can do similar tests to what I have planned if they want/care.
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Are you sure about your firmware version?:
Yes, my firmware is definately 3.01.01.12R1.
If the hardware version is the same, why wouldn't I be able to download your (newer) version? It probably breaks the EasyDMM X compatibility but it will get rid of my pulsating power LED in standby I think. :)
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Are you sure about your firmware version?:
Yes, my firmware is definately 3.01.01.12R1.
If the hardware version is the same, why wouldn't I be able to download your (newer) version? It probably breaks the EasyDMM X compatibility but it will get rid of my pulsating power LED in standby I think. :)
I think that's likely considering every time somebody complains about the pulsating LED, I dunno what they're talking about. ;)
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I notice that for the 100M ohms range, they use the same 200nA constant current as the 10M ohm range but with (if I understand correctly) a 10M ohm shunt resistance, presumably to keep the voltage within the 100mV limit they seem to have imposed on all three M ohm ranges. However, I don't think this 100M ohm range can be classed as a ratio-metric method in the sense of my interpretation of your reference to ratio-metric.
200 nA with 10 M would be 2 V. The 100 M range measures meter internal 10 M in parallel to the DUT and than calculated back. This is not very accurate and in principle would also work to larger resistors, though with even lower accuracy.
The measurement is still ratiometric in the sense that it does not depend on the voltage reference. However there are more resistors involded in the current source and the parallel 10 M also has quite some effect. The way with the constant current source in some way is common. AFAIK the Keithley 19x used a reference resistor in series to the the DUT and than measurements on both resistors. So they have few critical parts in the circuit.
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Are you sure about your firmware version?:
Yes, my firmware is definately 3.01.01.12R1.
If the hardware version is the same, why wouldn't I be able to download your (newer) version? It probably breaks the EasyDMM X compatibility but it will get rid of my pulsating power LED in standby I think. :)
I don't use "EasyDMM-X", but I guess "EasyDMM 1.01.02.01.03" should also show, that FW 3.02.01.13 probably fixed this issue - at least I could connect via LAN and could control the SDM3065X via EasyDMM...
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I don't use "EasyDMM-X", but I guess "EasyDMM 1.01.02.01.03" should also show, that FW 3.02.01.13 probably fixed this issue - at least I could connect via LAN and could control the SDM3065X via EasyDMM...
Yes, I have that too and EasyDMM works fine for what it is. I think it's probably good to have both, but most often I just use TestController.
EasyDMM is better for live screenshot capture as it appears EasyDMM-X doesn't show the real screen. Which is fine considering the EasyDMM-X inteface is higher resolution.
I'm trying to get SCDP (SCPI screendump) working with the SDM3055X-E, but I don't know if it will work at all with the higher models. I didn't get any response from the 3065. Maybe in newer firmware, if it ever gets released.
Thanks,
Josh
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I have always wondered what was meant by the LED on when the unit was off. My Agilent 34461A has a dim LED when off, but the Siglent doesn't on mine.
HW Version ID: 02-02-00-05-00
Production ID: SMD3065X
SW Version ID: 3.02.01.13
EasyDMM works fine over USB, given how it's connected to my lab computer, but I recall I once had it on the network too.
Purchased from TEquipment May 21, 2024
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I have always wondered what was meant by the LED on when the unit was off. My Agilent 34461A has a dim LED when off, but the Siglent doesn't on mine.
HW Version ID: 02-02-00-05-00
Production ID: SMD3065X
SW Version ID: 3.02.01.13
EasyDMM works fine over USB, given how it's connected to my lab computer, but I recall I once had it on the network too.
Purchased from TEquipment May 21, 2024
This is the issue for these to work with the newer EasyDMM-X.
The only SDM3065X publically available FW is V3.01.01.12R1 whereas V3.02.01.13 has been installed in new units for a while.
I'll bump Siglent again over this....
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EasyDMM-X 1.0.3 does also work with LAN, being able to control SDM3065X with FW 3.02.01.13...
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EasyDMM-X 1.0.3 does also work with LAN, being able to control SDM3065X with FW 3.02.01.13...
That makes sense. FW 3.02.01.13 is the version the app says is the minimum requirement for the 3065X. It's not yet publicly available though outside of being preinstalled on newer units.
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EasyDMM-X 1.0.3 does also work with LAN, being able to control SDM3065X with FW 3.02.01.13...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=2832636)
Yep, it's the minimum requirement to work with the newer EasyDMM-X SW.
But a thing that has bugged me since SDM4000A were released is the move to a blue digit display and dropping of the highly visible orange digits used in SDM3000 models. :-//
So now we have this weird situation where SDM3045X and SDM3055 both have firmware versions that support the new EasyDMM-X which displays blue digits like SDM4000A models. :-//
Until a new FW for SDM3065X is released, then EasyDMM-X digits for it will be blue too.
So okay we're a 1/4 of the way through this century where an instrument like SDM4000A and its large LCD TFT display only displays blue digits and doesn't offer a color palette for users to have options for digit colors. :-//
In scopes (when we spend enough) we have options for trace colors yet a choice of digit colors is too hard to implement in a bench DMM ? :box:
Seriously, sometimes I just don't get it. :-//
Lets say you had a rack of these bench DMM's, if you could change the digit colors so at a glance one could more quickly see which you were using.
Wouldn't such a unit be attractive to the professional EE and those that had well spec'ed private labs ?
Now for the choice of digit colors to be available if such a wish was to come about.....
How does Nipple pink and Breastflesh white go for starters ?
:-DD
:-DMM
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I have always wondered what was meant by the LED on when the unit was off. My Agilent 34461A has a dim LED when off, but the Siglent doesn't on mine.
HW Version ID: 02-02-00-05-00
Production ID: SMD3065X
SW Version ID: 3.02.01.13
EasyDMM works fine over USB, given how it's connected to my lab computer, but I recall I once had it on the network too.
Purchased from TEquipment May 21, 2024
This is the issue for these to work with the newer EasyDMM-X.
The only SDM3065X publically available FW is V3.01.01.12R1 whereas V3.02.01.13 has been installed in new units for a while.
I'll bump Siglent again over this....
Just been messaged by HQ......1 week and a new SDM3065X firmware should be available.
Watch this space:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=24
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Just been messaged by HQ......1 week and a new SDM3065X firmware should be available.
Watch this space:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=24 (https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=24)
Awesome!
More good news: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/msg6276532/#msg6276532 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/msg6276532/#msg6276532)
We got screen dumps working with the SDM3000X series in TestController.
The command will probably also work with the SDM4000A series, but I don't have one to test with, and I would need somebody to give me feedback on the definition I edited for it.
Thanks,
Josh
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New firmware version V3.02.01.15R2 published today by Siglent.
Have installed it on my SDM3065X (was originally delivered with version V3.02.01.13) without problem.
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New firmware version V3.02.01.15R2 published today by Siglent.
Have installed it on my SDM3065X (was origininally delivered with version V3.02.01.13) without problem.
The "Release notes" are quite short:
2026-06-04
SDM3065X Firmware Update
Version： V3.02.01.15R2
1. Disable auto-zeroing during the execution of MEASure measurement commands.
2. Fixed the bug in the ROUT:DATA:REMO? query command.
3. Fixed the offset zero bug during current measurement.
Have you already detected a main difference, since your "FW 3.02.01.13" was pre-installed from the factory and not downloadable and had - as far as I am concerned - no obvious bugs or other obvious problems such as LAN connectivity with EasyDMM-X 1.0.3, which was the case with "FW 3.02.01.12R1" (also not downloadable), but not with the earlier "FW 3.01.01.12R1" (officially downloadable)?
I guess most of us will have HW version 02-02-00-05-00, so this is probably negligible?
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Just been messaged by HQ......1 week and a new SDM3065X firmware should be available.
Watch this space:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=24
Does this include support for the 30A current shunt, like they added for the SDM3045/55 ?
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Just been messaged by HQ......1 week and a new SDM3065X firmware should be available.
Watch this space:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=24
Does this include support for the 30A current shunt, like they added for the SDM3045/55 ?
Yeah well that's the problem when we don't have any release notes for any versions between V3.01.01.12R1 and this new V3.02.01.15R2 or the earlier V3.02.01.13 that's been installed at production for some time.
TBH it should so try your HPAK one .....switch to Current mode and look for the option to select the SCD30A external 30A shunt.
:popcorn:
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I would have to dig it out of storage as I put it aside when I got the Keithley 7510, I didn't have room for both on my shelf.
Is anyone else that has the latest firmware installed able to see a 30A current measurement range ?
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I would have to dig it out of storage as I put it aside when I got the Keithley 7510, I didn't have room for both on my shelf.
Is anyone else that has the latest firmware installed able to see a 30A current measurement range ?
I'd bet SDM3065X does now support the SCD30A external 30A shunt as it's listed as an optional accessory.
From the SDM3065X options page:
https://int.siglent.com/article/detail-955.html
BTW 2024-05-24 firmware was when support for SCD30A was enabled in SDM3055 meters.
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Here is the PDF with the "Revision History of the SDM3065X", which is, however, officially incomplete...
Probably important to note for "Salient666", who is maybe (?) still on "FW 3.01.01.12R1":
After upgrading to 3.02... you cannot downgrade to 3.01... anymore - if this is important for anyone else...?!
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Here is the PDF with the "Revision History of the SDM3065X", which is, however, officially incomplete...
Probably important to note for "Salient666", who is maybe (?) still on "FW 3.01.01.12R1":
As am I.
After upgrading to 3.02... you cannot downgrade to 3.01... anymore - if this is important for anyone else...?!
As a result of my last firmware update to "FW 3.01.01.12R1", I'm already beyond this "Point of no return".
[EDIT] Actually, I'm not. I've just realised that this only applies after upgrading to ver 3.02, an option that is not available as a download.
I downloaded the "SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN.zip" (which unlike previous downloads, curiously lacks the update instructions pdf) and tried to update the DMM. The process failed with an extremely brief display of an error message. Blink and you'd miss it - it took another two attempts before I spotted why the appearance of the progress bar had been so brief. ::)
I'm guessing it failed for lack of internal flash memory capacity (the H/W id on my 5+ yo DMM is at 02-02-00-05-00). Presumably, the later hardware versions must have been the result of a massive internal flash memory upgrade to allow for the ~ fourfold increase over the earlier 9.4MB ads file to the current 34.4MB sized ads file :o :(
BTW, I spotted a reference in the "FW 3.01.01.12R1" "FW 3.02.01.12R1" revision history entry for EMMC Flash support which had me searching for information. As best as I can figure it, this would seem to be a reference to a (presumably already) permanently embedded flash memory and its associated controller on the motherboard.
Why this seemingly belated "add-on" feature should appear "after the horse has bolted" is, to my mind, a rather curious puzzle. Does anyone know what Siglent actually mean?
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Here is the PDF with the "Revision History of the SDM3065X", which is, however, officially incomplete...
Probably important to note for "Salient666", who is maybe (?) still on "FW 3.01.01.12R1":
As am I.
After upgrading to 3.02... you cannot downgrade to 3.01... anymore - if this is important for anyone else...?!
As a result of my last firmware update to "FW 3.01.01.12R1", I'm already beyond this "Point of no return".
I downloaded the "SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN.zip" (which unlike previous downloads, curiously lacks the update instructions pdf) and tried to update the DMM. The process failed with an extremely brief display of an error message. Blink and you'd miss it - it took another two attempts before I spotted why the appearance of the progress bar had been so brief. ::)
I'm guessing it failed for lack of internal flash memory capacity (the H/W id on my 5+ yo DMM is at 02-02-00-05-00). Presumably, the later hardware versions must have been the result of a massive internal flash memory upgrade to allow for the ~ fourfold increase over the earlier 9.4MB ads file to the current 34.4MB sized ads file :o :(
BTW, I spotted a reference in the "FW 3.01.01.12R1" revision history entry for EMMC Flash support which had me searching for information. As best as I can figure it, this would seem to be a reference to a (presumably already) permanently embedded flash memory and its associated controller on the motherboard.
Why this seemingly belated "add-on" feature should appear "after the horse has bolted" is, to my mind, a rather curious puzzle. Does anyone know what Siglent actually mean?
More likely your USB stick is too large or configured incorrectly.
When 3.01.01.12R1 in SDM3065X was installed , flash memory management was changed with better block management and wear leveling etc.
This was a long sought after upgrade to help prevent boot problems.
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The FW is up on the NA site, but not yet the int site? Weird.
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3065x-series
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The FW is up on the NA site, but not yet the int site? Weird.
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3065x-series
It is but not in chronological order.
Link is at the bottom of the list. ;)
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The bottom? That's too much reading for me. :-DD
Upgrade finished quickly, with no issues. EasyDMM-X finally works too.
Thanks for getting Siglent to do their job, Rob!!
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Anyone having an issue with this latest firmware update? We've tried our tried and true (used on many Siglent and other TE for firmware upgrades without issue) USB stick, then reformatted such with MS DOS on Mac, tried a couple other USB sticks that previously worked, reformatted such. We've put the ADS file as the only file, then as the update file folder as the only folder on the stick, and on multiple USB sticks with no luck. All USB sticks checked and verified with Mac "First Aid" Disk Utility checkup.
We just get a quick "upgrade failed" message after entering the attempt to upgrade the firmware, no matter how we approach the update firmware. At lease the DMM is still operational, and not locked up!! We are upgrading from the previous update 3.01.02.12R1.
Anyway, feedback from others with this issue?
Should have included more info!!
SDM3065X
Hardware Version: 02-02-00-05-00
Firmware Version : 3.01.02.12R1 3.01.01.12R1
Attempted Firmware Upgrade: 3.02.01.15R2
Best
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Anyway, feedback from others with this issue?
Maybe there is a problem with the Product_ID of the packages. Identify precisely what FW version you have on the unit and what version you want to flash. (Mention the model, as everyone is crossflashing.)
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Anyone having an issue with this latest firmware update?
Best
Yes, all three of our units in the lab failed to upgrade. We are using the same mem-stick used for all the previous updates. The moment you press "update" it fails immediately. We tried other sticks with no success.
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@tv84 In this case (a genuine SDM3065X - is there any other kind?), the cross flashing option simply doesn't exist.
@mawyatt and @D2236
Your experiences match mine. The difference being that I only have a single SDM3065X to hand with exactly the same firmware and hardware versions and only tried it with two identical 1GB usb sticks and only when checking the original, that had worked flawlessly with previous firmware upgrades for the bench meter and other Siglent products, had revealed it had been formatted using FAT16).
The other usb stick which I'd used to backup MoBo bios rom images, had been formatted as a FAT32 disk volume. Since the presence of other files had never been a problem, I simply copied the SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN folder onto it and saw exactly the same symptoms of failure as before.
I had been planning to try other (FAT32 formatted) pen drives later on but mawyatt had already gone through all that hassle, saving me the time and effort involved for no further gain and, for that, I thank you very much. :)
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Hi John,
We only have 1 SDM3065X, our other DMMS are HPAGKS and Keithley. D2236 apparently has 3 that show this behavior, so this is defiantly something going on with this particular update!! Corrected the present firmware version (3.01.01.12R1) see above!!
Best
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Yes, all three of our units in the lab failed to upgrade. We are using the same mem-stick used for all the previous updates. The moment you press "update" it fails immediately. We tried other sticks with no success.
I just tried to update mine and I get the same result with multiple USB sticks as well unfortunately.
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As mentioned by tautech the "right" USB memory is quite important, in order to have less problems. As I am on Linux, I have to follow certain steps to be sure that anything is fine and I guess macOS is not any better!
For this purpose I use a SanDiskCruzerBlade (see picture: "SanDiskCruzerBlade does work.png"), which is not the best in build quality and also not the fastest, but for this purpose probably good enough and the right choice. I have an old 4GB version, but I guess anything up to 32GB should be fine. For my normal use of the SDM3065X I use the Blue Verbatim, which is 32GB in size and works also without a problem, but as I wanted to have a clean USB, I don't want to mess around with it.
As my language is set to german, these "terms" are probably not identical to an english version of the software...but you get an idea:
Then I open gParted and go to device => partition table => msdos and after that format it to Fat32. This step, before formatting the USB with Fat32 is - for me - the decisive one!!!
As I am on Linux. I open VirtualBox and make a second format with MiniPartitionTool within Windows as I am paranoid. After that I copy the *.ads-File onto the USB and after that check again with the windows tool to scan for errors. This is mandatory for me as a Linux user as Windows always cries, when an USB has been attached to Linux before and this carries over to the equipment in this case the SDM3065X; this is just my experience and this is just my way. But after this way of dealing with an USB, I have never ever had a frozen Siglent SDS1202X-E issue anymore, which I always and forever had with any USB before - so I learn from my mistakes, which now also worked out for updating the SDM3065X:
1. the SDM3065X is off
2. plug in the USB
3. power the SDM3065X on
4. Shift => Utility
=> my intermediate step:
5. "Manage File" => "Browse" => "Arrow Down" on "external" => "Select" => "Done"
=> This guarantees that "external" is detected and now already chosen in the decisive step
6. "System Setup" => "Firmware Update" (Current Path: /external) is already chosen
7. "Browse" => "Arrow down" on "external" => "right Arrow" => "Arrow down" on *.ADS => "Select"
8. "Update" => "Yes"
Now this procedure (see picture: "UpdateProcess.png") takes place and is done in less than 2-3 minutes!
During this process do nothing, but wait, till you see the normal VDC display after you read in green "Upgrade succeeded!" do nothing, but wait! As "Upgrade succeeded!" is displayed quite long, one could think, it is fine to turn off the SDM3065X, but just wait!
That's it!
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SDM3065X
Firmware Version : 3.01.02.12R1
Anyone has this elusive FW version? If so, please share.
Corrected as 3.01.01.12R1
Best
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Corrected as 3.01.01.12R1
This version expects an upgrade file with Product_ID = 12000.
SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2 has a Product_ID = 12001, so it will never work.
If anyone is brave, I can force the ID.
I think this is all caused by the fact that Siglent didn't release the 3.02.01.12R1, that would have done that transition.
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@PushUp
I should say that you have gone way beyond "Above and Beyond" in preparing your flash media for firmware updating Siglent kit. :-DD :-DD :-DD
All joking aside, I too run Linux as my host OS and can appreciate where you're coming from. In my case, I'm using Kubuntu 25.10 for my sins and use KDE Partition manager to prep my Pen drives.
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@tv84
Thank you for that info. I guess the updated product ID is a direct result of the upgraded H/W which I suspect brought a flash ram size upgrade to accommodate the sudden, almost fourfold increased ads file size ( 9.2MB jump to a massive 34.4MB!!!).
If my "educated" guess is correct, anyone willing to take up your offer, will likely brick it (possibly repairable with a rescue file).
Regarding the anomalies between the version history list and the downloadable versions, that could quite easily be a typo as anything else. Failing that, it would seem that Siglent have become rather lax in maintaining a full and accurate version history.
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If my "educated" guess is correct, anyone willing to take up your offer, will likely brick it (possibly repairable with a rescue file).
It's not likely to brick it at all. It's more likely it will either work, or it will still fail.
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The file increase is mainly because the FW package now has multiple options inside (NAND and EMMC).
So, I'm not so sure it will brick as Josh on the other thread did something similar in the SDM3055X-E. As always, each one knows about themselves.
File Header Size: 00000070
00000000 - File Checksum: E95B4109 [00000004-0226AC72] (with only the File Header decrypted) CKSM OK
00000004 - File Size: 0226AC03 (without 0x70 bytes of the File Header)
0000000C - Product_ID: 12001
00000026 - Vendor/Brand: SIGLENT
0000003A - USB Host Controller: ISP1763
****************************************************
Decrypting the 0x2800 and 0x1400 blocks...
Reversing file...
XORing with 0xFF (incrementing pattern)...
XORing with 0xFF from 0x01135602 until 0x0226AC02
****************************************************
00000000 --- Section Checksum: E705A876
00000004 --- Section Size: 0226ABCF [00000034-0226AC02] CKSM OK
00000008 --- Section Type: 7 (config.zip)
00000034 --- 0226AC02 ***** ZIP file *****
Offset Ver Flag Comp Size Packed Modified CRC32 Name Permissions Extra Details
00000034 1.0 0000 0000 004389F5 004389F5 09/12/2025 14:49:15 ADBA473B [00000078-00438A6C] common.zip -rw-r--r-- MT: 09/12/2025 06:49:30 UID: 1007 GID: 1001
00438A6D 1.0 0000 0000 00E205DC 00E205DC 09/12/2025 14:49:17 DAA4AC77 [00438AAF-0125908A] emmc.zip -rw-r--r-- MT: 09/12/2025 06:49:33 UID: 1007 GID: 1001
0125908B 1.0 0000 0000 010116E8 010116E8 09/12/2025 14:49:17 3F072D00 [012590CD-0226A7B4] nand.zip -rw-r--r-- MT: 09/12/2025 06:49:34 UID: 1007 GID: 1001
0226A7B5 2.0 0000 0008 000007DA 000002BA 09/12/2025 14:49:15 9E1916E5 [0226A7F8-0226AAB1] update.sh -rwxr--r-- MT: 09/12/2025 06:49:30 UID: 1007 GID: 1001
Disk Entries: 4 Total Entries: 4 Directory Size: 315 bytes [0226AAB2-0226ABEC]
****************************************************
File Processed OK
And, by looking at the attached update.sh, I think it should be perfectly OK. If the UIBFS is detected, device has the old NAND, else it has the newer EMMC. The COMMON core is shared between both versions.
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I think I'll hang fire on that offer until someone else feels brave enough to test the depth of this pool of murky water with both feet. :)
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@PushUp
I should say that you have gone way beyond "Above and Beyond" in preparing your flash media for firmware updating Siglent kit. :-DD :-DD :-DD
FAT32 and 4k clusters is the normal requirement however not all sticks work.
Find one between 2 and 32G (not 16G) and ensure it's formatted correctly.
@tv84 In this case (a genuine SDM3065X - is there any other kind?), the cross flashing option simply doesn't exist.
@mawyatt and @D2236
Your experiences match mine. The difference being that I only have a single SDM3065X to hand with exactly the same firmware and hardware versions and only tried it with two identical 1GB usb sticks and only when checking the original, that had worked flawlessly with previous firmware upgrades for the bench meter and other Siglent products, had revealed it had been formatted using FAT16).
The other usb stick which I'd used to backup MoBo bios rom images, had been formatted as a FAT32 disk volume. Since the presence of other files had never been a problem, I simply copied the SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN folder onto it and saw exactly the same symptoms of failure as before.
I had been planning to try other (FAT32 formatted) pen drives later on but mawyatt had already gone through all that hassle, saving me the time and effort involved for no further gain and, for that, I thank you very much. :)
Extract only the .ADS update file from that folder and update with that and that only.
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I hadn't made the rookie error of simply copying the original zip file download to the pen drive. I'd extracted the two files contained in the zip to a folder named using that of the zip file and copied that folder to the pen drive. It was no problem browsing to the extracted ads file.
However, in the spirit of "Leaving no stone unturned", I'll move the ads file into the root of the pen drive and have another go.
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Well, as expected, that made bugger all difference. |O
Sorry if I seem a little ungrateful but, in anticipation of the suggestion that I format yet another pen drive to the fat32 file standard and copy only the ads file to its root, I'll save that exercise for tomorrow - it's getting late and I have an early-ish start planned.
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Escalations required for them to provide the update then half-ass delivery of it when it comes to those that really deserve the update (early adopters). Mine works fine but only because I bought into the platform later and have more modern systems.
This will impact my decision on purchasing more from them. Anyone doing a Google search or other search for reviews should ready this and understand the true value proposition. Siglent hasn't shown any proper attention to the people that spent money as early adopters to allow them the same service as those that bought their equipment later.
Assuming Siglent is a proper manufacturer and supporter of their gear, they have a lab to test all of this in and the updates included. If they were to have done any of that testing at even the highest level across the revisions they'd know this upgrade problem existed. This isn't a corner case where someone had to stand on one foot and hold their mouth correct to fail the upgrade. It just simply doesn't work for certain revisions.
I'm most upset because I had enjoyed using the Siglent line. I'll just need to spend my money and yes, that may be more, on other gear from now on. I am lucky enough that I have commercial access to all the vendors so I don't have to worry about that crap getting in my way. At least I can hold them responsible for my support and updates.
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Siglent made a mistake with this release, but they'll fix it. As soon as Rob yells at them...and Rob yelling at them might have something to do with it being rushed. I still appreciate though. Thanks, Rob. ;)
They didn't exclude anybody on purpose.
If you compare them to other vendors, then only Keithley is better. Keithley seems to average about 2 updates per year on their modern DMMs. It's been over 5 years since Keysight bothered to update their flagship meters.
Hioki's $12,000 impedance analyzer got a firmware update in Feb for new models only, due to a hardware component change. No update to the other versions though.
TongHui makes great hardware, but their support and update reputation is pretty bad...but thankfully not as bad as Rigol or Fnirsi.
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Siglent made a mistake with this release, but they'll fix it. As soon as Rob yells at them...and Rob yelling at them might have something to do with it being rushed. I still appreciate though. Thanks, Rob. ;)
They didn't exclude anybody on purpose.
If you compare them to other vendors, then only Keithley is better. Keithley seems to average about 2 updates per year on their modern DMMs. It's been over 5 years since Keysight bothered to update their flagship meters.
Hioki's $12,000 impedance analyzer got a firmware update in Feb for new models only, due to a hardware component change. No update to the other versions though.
TongHui makes great hardware, but their support and update reputation is pretty bad...but thankfully not as bad as Rigol or Fnirsi.
I don't want to be super critical but the first mistake was having to have an escalation for the release at all. Then the mistake in releasing it with what appears to be no testing. Sorry if I seem to have too high expectations. It may be my early years in tech support that drives those expectations.
I also fear that this is the "new normal" and what we are supposed to expect after spending pretty significant sums of money.
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I don't want to be super critical but the first mistake was having to have an escalation for the release at all. Then the mistake in releasing it with what appears to be no testing. Sorry if I seem to have too high expectations. It may be my early years in tech support that drives those expectations.
I also fear that this is the "new normal" and what we are supposed to expect after spending pretty significant sums of money.
Be as critical as you want. It's annoying for sure.
I'd say be patient also though. Give them a chance to correct their mistake.
If they don't fix, then get more mad. ;)
You're 100% correct about this being all too normal across the industry. However, I'd still prefer this over no updates at all like Keysight.
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The bottom? That's too much reading for me. :-DD
Upgrade finished quickly, with no issues. EasyDMM-X finally works too.
Thanks for getting Siglent to do their job, Rob!!
SDM3065X ?
From the last available public version ?
If so, why did yours update yet others are having problems ? :-//
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SDM3065X ?
From the last available public version ?
If so, why did yours update yet others are having problems ? :-//
I came from 3.02.01.12R1. I believe the people with trouble are coming from 3.01.01.12R1.
As @tv84 pointed out, the limiting factor is likely the Product_ID. Similar story with the SDM3055X-E update.
Thanks,
Josh
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The bottom? That's too much reading for me. :-DD
Upgrade finished quickly, with no issues. EasyDMM-X finally works too.
Thanks for getting Siglent to do their job, Rob!!
SDM3065X ?
From the last available public version ?
If so, why did yours update yet others are having problems ? :-//
My SDM3065X update was successful, from V3.02.01.13 (as received originally from factory) to V3.02.01.15R2.
Maybe the problematic step is upgrading from V3.01.<something> to V3.02.<something>.
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I will say it again:
This is all caused by the fact that Siglent didn't release the 3.02.01.12R1, that would have done that transition peacefully.
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I will say it again:
This is all caused by the fact that Siglent didn't release the 3.02.01.12R1, that would have done that transition peacefully.
I sincerely hope you are right and someone prepared to take up your offer of a workaround is able to get past this "roadblock". :) As I mentioned earlier, I'll wait for someone else to prove your hypothesis before jumping in with both feet.
BTW, I did get around to formatting a 1GB pen drive with an MBR partition and FAT32 into which I copied only the ads file. The upgrade attempt, as I'd expected, also failed in exactly the same way as mawyatt had experienced.
This final attempt had been a "Clutching at straws" exercise to exorcise the ghosts of bad/badly formatted media/unextracted zip files as proposed by other well meaning souls who reasonably assume the possibility that the victim may have fallen foul of bad media or simply screwed up somewhere along the line.
In my case, since I've exhausted all the offered suggestions, I'm quite confident that the issue is as you hypothesised. Hopefully, Siglent will fix the problem one way or another or else admit defeat and explain why the limitations of the earlier hardware versions now make later firmware updates impossible.
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The FW is up on the NA site, but not yet the int site? Weird.
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3065x-series
I took a look at the NA version of the firmware revision history and spotted some noteworthy additions as per the attached image.
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This file is only for tv84 to check if it is valid!!!
https://limewire.com/d/6aCou#xfPXRdfQgJ
I found this FW "SDM3065X_3.02.01.12R1_EN" on the Japanese Site of Siglent:
(https://imghoster.de/images/2026/06/05/JapanOle.md.png) (https://imghoster.de/image/DFnIR)
Maybe it helps?!
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Here's the direct link for that firmware version: https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.02.01.12R1_EN-.zip
It appears Siglent did release it, and forgot to link it a few times.
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Here's the direct link for that firmware version: https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.02.01.12R1_EN-.zip
It appears Siglent did release it, and forgot to link it a few times.
I thought to be brave and just try this.
After the upgrade it said succeeded.. but now i'm forever on the boot screen... :)
Recovery procedure doesn't seem to work either. or is there an alternative procedure? I have read somehwere you have to open up the device ?
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Okay, also decided give this a try, before we saw post above!! Updated to 3.02.01.12R1 first, this went fine as usual. Then tried 15R2 which was accepted and DMM cycles thru Upgrading to Upgrade Succeeded but never comes out of Upgrade Succeeded, even after re-powering with or without USB stick. Just remains in this loop.
Now guess we need to request a recovery file :P
Best
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Okay, also decided give this a try, before we saw post above!! Updated to 3.02.01.12R1 first, this went fine as usual. Then tried 15R2 which was accepted and DMM cycles thru Upgrading to Upgrade Succeeded but never comes out of Upgrade Succeeded, even after re-powering with or without USB stick. Just remains in this loop.
Now guess we need to request a recovery file :P
Best
Can you confirm that upgrading to 3.02.01.12R1 doesn't in itself "brick" the meter until you follow up with the 3.02.01.15R2 upgrade?
I followed the link given by KungFuJosh and downloaded it on a "Shoot First, Ask Questions Later" basis before it got pulled. The download was much slower than the typical MB/s download rates I see using the official Siglent web sites, somewhere in the region of two or three hundred KB/s.
The file size is 35.2MiB (36,921,863 bytes) if this helps.
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Okay, also decided give this a try, before we saw post above!! Updated to 3.02.01.12R1 first, this went fine as usual. Then tried 15R2 which was accepted and DMM cycles thru Upgrading to Upgrade Succeeded but never comes out of Upgrade Succeeded, even after re-powering with or without USB stick. Just remains in this loop.
Now guess we need to request a recovery file :P
Best
Can you confirm that upgrading to 3.02.01.12R1 doesn't in itself "brick" the meter until you follow up with the 3.02.01.15R2 upgrade?
Mine quit working after the 3.02.01.12R1 update already.. I am fiddling with recovery and for some reason one time it actually DID start up and had the 3.02.01.12R1 firmware in the system info screen. Now that I switched it off again it won't start again.
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I edited my post to add that I'd also downloaded that file before it got pulled. I had no intention of applying it before others had made "A Courageous Decision" to try it out and verify its efficacy (I'm not that courageous!).
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Okay, also decided give this a try, before we saw post above!! Updated to 3.02.01.12R1 first, this went fine as usual. Then tried 15R2 which was accepted and DMM cycles thru Upgrading to Upgrade Succeeded but never comes out of Upgrade Succeeded, even after re-powering with or without USB stick. Just remains in this loop.
Now guess we need to request a recovery file :P
Best
Can you confirm that upgrading to 3.02.01.12R1 doesn't in itself "brick" the meter until you follow up with the 3.02.01.15R2 upgrade?
I followed the link given by KungFuJosh and downloaded it on a "Shoot First, Ask Questions Later" basis before it got pulled. The download was much slower than the typical MB/s download rates I see using the official Siglent web sites, somewhere in the region of two or three hundred KB/s.
The file size is 35.2MiB (36,921,863 bytes) if this helps.
No this didn't "brick" the DMM, but the subsequent attempt install of the 15R2 effectively did.
BTW we don't use the SDM3065X much at all, as we have other Keysight and Keithley DMMs available that we prefer. So the "brave risk" we took, wasn't so "brave" actually :o
Best
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I'm confused. Why would the link get pulled? It's been there for 3 years.
I might try downgrading to the 12R1 link, and see what happens. I'm in the same boat as Mike; I don't really care about the meter (though I do like it ;)).
I wonder if there is a hardware requirement they overlooked?
This is the 6.5 Digit recover for anybody that needs it (might not work though |O): https://mega.nz/file/w9sikZhJ#BzKVSf5XofB19buJOlWocM6h1spY1DtOf3InBYCYoQg
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It's curious that Salient666 experienced failure just from applying that 3.02.01.12R1 whilst it took the follow up firmware upgrade to 3.02.01.15R2 before you suffered the same fate. That's what prompted me to report the filesize on that download just in case it had any bearing in this discrepancy.
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Does the recovery work for any of you with the older hw? It doesn't work on my meter, and I can't downgrade to 12R1 to test the other version.
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I'm confused. Why would the link get pulled? It's been there for 3 years.
I did mention a "Shoot first, ask questions later" response just in case it may have gotten pulled :)
I wonder if there is a hardware requirement they overlooked?
The issue relating to a firmware upgrade for SDG2042 proved to be due to redundent files not being replaced by the upgrade comes to mind.
This is the 6.5 Digit recover for anybody that needs it (might not work though |O): https://mega.nz/file/w9sikZhJ#BzKVSf5XofB19buJOlWocM6h1spY1DtOf3InBYCYoQg
I followed that link but after an initial (in full colour) minute or so of the ouroboros icon, it degenerated to a darkened version where the snake kept eating its tail until I gave up waiting some 10 or 15 minutes later. I'm using Kubuntu 25.10 and Opera if that matters.
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I'm confused. Why would the link get pulled? It's been there for 3 years.
I might try downgrading to the 12R1 link, and see what happens. I'm in the same boat as Mike; I don't really care about the meter (though I do like it ;)).
I wonder if there is a hardware requirement they overlooked?
This is the 6.5 Digit recover for anybody that needs it (might not work though |O): https://mega.nz/file/w9sikZhJ#BzKVSf5XofB19buJOlWocM6h1spY1DtOf3InBYCYoQg
Just tried recovery with 2 different USB sticks that have worked for firmware updates before on Siglent (and others). DMM still is in same state of "looping" from Upgrade to Upgrade succeeded after powering ON/OFF.
Best
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Does the recovery work for any of you with the older hw? It doesn't work on my meter, and I can't downgrade to 12R1 to test the other version.
Recovery doesn't work so far for me. tried a couple of different USB sticks, among which a 15 year old or so 8GB. So far, nothing.
If i leave the meter on long enough (one hour or a bit over even) it DOES boot to the digit screen but its completely frozen.
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:palm: :palm: :palm:
So, having the transition FW is worst than not having it... Maybe that's why Siglent pull it out (in some places).
File Header Size: 00000070
00000000 - File Checksum: E32279C1 [00000004-0232B6F8] (with only the File Header decrypted) CKSM OK
00000004 - File Size: 0232B689 (without 0x70 bytes of the File Header)
0000000C - Product_ID: 12000
00000026 - Vendor/Brand: SIGLENT
0000003A - USB Host Controller: ISP1763
****************************************************
Decrypting the 0x2800 and 0x1400 blocks...
Reversing file...
XORing with 0xFF (incrementing pattern)...
XORing with 0xFF from 0x01195B45 until 0x0232B688
****************************************************
00000000 --- Section Checksum: E103954A
00000004 --- Section Size: 0232B655 [00000034-0232B688] CKSM OK
00000008 --- Section Type: 7 (config.zip)
00000034 --- 0232B688 ***** ZIP file *****
Offset Ver Flag Comp Size Packed Modified CRC32 Name Permissions Extra Details
00000034 1.0 0000 0000 004389F5 004389F5 29/11/2022 21:07:27 CA39FAA9 [00000078-00438A6C] common.zip -rw-r--r-- MT: 29/11/2022 13:07:53 UID: 1009 GID: 1001
00438A6D 1.0 0000 0000 00E62650 00E62650 29/11/2022 21:07:28 E4754327 [00438AAF-0129B0FE] emmc.zip -rw-r--r-- MT: 29/11/2022 13:07:56 UID: 1009 GID: 1001
0129B0FF 1.0 0000 0000 010900FA 010900FA 29/11/2022 21:07:29 59277C66 [0129B141-0232B23A] nand.zip -rw-r--r-- MT: 29/11/2022 13:07:57 UID: 1009 GID: 1001
0232B23B 2.0 0000 0008 000007DA 000002BA 29/11/2022 21:07:27 9E1916E5 [0232B27E-0232B537] update.sh -rwxr--r-- MT: 29/11/2022 13:07:53 UID: 1009 GID: 1001
Disk Entries: 4 Total Entries: 4 Directory Size: 315 bytes [0232B538-0232B672]
****************************************************
File Processed OK
So, SDM3065X_3.02.01.12R1 has exactly the same common.zip and update.sh as SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2.
IMO, that means that you can safely flash directly to 3.02.01.15R2 (as long we patch its Product_ID to 12000).
As I had hinted before (not rocket science as Siglent had said that you would be unable to go back), after flashing 3.02.01.12R1, the device will only accept Product_ID=12001.
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As I had hinted before (not rocket science as Siglent had said that you would be unable to go back), after flashing 3.02.01.12R1, the device will only accept Product_ID=12001.
Would this mean that a recovery USB stick should be altered for that product ID and that's why it's not working with the existing versions?
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Attached is the contents of SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2 nand.zip file.
It's somewhat different from what you see in the Recovery Disk floating around. That disk is unusable after the migration to 3.02.xxxxx
Edit: I asked my buddy to do a comparison report why things are not the same (attached below).
ALERT: I would say that nobody at version 3.02.xxxx should try the Recovery Disk. I guess it won't allow it, but just to be on the safe side...
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Thank you for that information regarding the recovery disk being incompatable with the new firmwares.
Given this circumstance, I've deleted that Shenzen sourced FW 3.02.01.12R1 file (and by deleted, I mean shift deleted which in a unix file system means it truly has been wiped).
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So now the unfortunate adventures must wait and hope to see an updated recovery set I guess....
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Attached is the contents of SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2 nand.zip file.
It's somewhat different from what you see in the Recovery Disk floating around. That disk is unusable after the migration to 3.02.xxxxx
Edit: I asked my buddy to do a comparison report why things are not the same (attached below).
ALERT: I would say that nobody at version 3.02.xxxx should try the Recovery Disk. I guess it won't allow it, but just to be on the safe side...
Thank you as always for the deep dives into the firmware tv84. :clap:
Just been catching up on what's been happening overnight ...... it don't look good. :o
I asked for an urgent fix and in the wee small hrs this arrived:
It needs the Transition firmware V3.02.01.12R1. Here is the download link. We will soon upgrade it on our website.
https://mega.nz/file/HRoSUYhC#lgpgT4An5SjLQ2WndIM-W6UIS-X2vr7I1lLIB4ohMvg
The upgrade order should be V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.02.01.12R1 ,then to V3.02.01.15R2.
But it seems even updating with the transition update V3.02.01.12R1 is troublesome and even once there and then with Product_ID=12001 the USB recovery files are now also not working. :palm:
One might then ask, why on earth was a change to Product_ID=12001 even needed ?
What was wrong with Product_ID=12000 ?
Just this alone seems to have busted everything.....the V3.02.01.12R1 upgrade to Product_ID=12001 and install of V3.02.01.15R2 !
Weekend now at HQ so unlikely to get a remedy for a few days, sorry guys. :-[
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Attached is the contents of SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2 nand.zip file.
It's somewhat different from what you see in the Recovery Disk floating around. That disk is unusable after the migration to 3.02.xxxxx
Edit: I asked my buddy to do a comparison report why things are not the same (attached below).
ALERT: I would say that nobody at version 3.02.xxxx should try the Recovery Disk. I guess it won't allow it, but just to be on the safe side...
Thank you as always for the deep dives into the firmware tv84. :clap:
Just been catching up on what's been happening overnight ...... it don't look good. :o
I asked for an urgent fix and in the wee small hrs this arrived:
It needs the Transition firmware V3.02.01.12R1. Here is the download link. We will soon upgrade it on our website.
https://mega.nz/file/HRoSUYhC#lgpgT4An5SjLQ2WndIM-W6UIS-X2vr7I1lLIB4ohMvg
The upgrade order should be V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.02.01.12R1 ,then to V3.02.01.15R2.
But it seems even updating with the transition update V3.02.01.12R1 is troublesome and even once there and then with Product_ID=12001 the USB recovery files are now also not working. :palm:
One might then ask, why on earth was a Product_ID=12001 even needed ?
Just this alone seems to have busted everything.....the upgrade to Product_ID=12001 and install of V3.02.01.15R2 !
Weekend now at HQ so unlikely to get a remedy for a few days, sorry guys. :-[
Rob,
Yes, that was the path we followed:
The upgrade order should be V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.02.01.12R1 ,then to V3.02.01.15R2.
But somehow this didn't work and created a continuous loop with the update as mentioned. We decided to take the risk since we aren't using the DMM now, but even the recovery attempt failed.
Will be interesting to look back at this later to see what transpired to create this situation, something we wouldn't have expected from Siglent :P
With you and tv84 looking into this we're sure that a full recovery path will soon follow. So even when corporate Siglent screws up, you and tv84 are here to bail them and us out ;D
Anyway, this is a good example for folks on the fence about Siglent, Rigol, and others. Apparently Siglent has screwed up here, maybe not as often as some others, but has developed and confidence level amongst those familiar with Siglent (users) to not worry too much how long this will take to get corrected since you and tv84 are involved :-+
BTW the value you, tv84, Performa01 and 2N3055 bring to Siglent is a level we have never experienced in our long career (going on 60+ years), even from the big boys HPAG-Keysight and Tektronix in later years. Younger folks need to pay attention to this detail, the value added is enormous, especially the response times with technical detail involved :clap:
Best
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From what you say, it seems the update file didnt get deleted and everytime it boots it runs the update process again... reboot... and again...
It's that it what you are seeing?
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Weekend now at HQ so unlikely to get a remedy for a few days, sorry guys. :-[
Well if their your customers then I can see an apology but you're doing for the Siglent community here and there's no need to apologize as far as i can see.
If you hadn't pestered them I doubt anything would be done.
I've been itching for one of their SDM4075A meters but I am having second thoughts for now.
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Disclaimer: not a fanboy here.
But I think what they did - migrating to UBIFS - is a good thing and deals much better with NAND corruption problems.
But, in order to introduce it, the sequence of steps and scripts must be bullet proof or else...
Nonetheless I would not expect the problem in v15 after the v12 had successfully ran.
Remember we started the day without being able to flash v15. You've now flash v12 and v15!
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100%! It's not easy to make a change like that without some growing pains. Moving beyond that should be a lot easier, without the need for a recovery.
I'd like to see Keysight take their modern 344XXA series off WinCE and see how smoothly they make that happen. ;)
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I'd like to see Keysight take their modern 344XXA series off WinCE and see how smoothly they make that happen. ;)
You can bet that's not going to happen. This move from WinCE will be a new DMM at an even higher price point!!
Best
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From what you say, it seems the update file didnt get deleted and everytime it boots it runs the update process again... reboot... and again...
It's that it what you are seeing?
If you are asking us, yes that is somewhat what's happening, with or without the USB stick installed. However, the boot process never gets beyond the screen saying "Upgrade Succeeded" and just hangs there!!
Best
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Siglent have missed something I'm very sure.....
A while back I had a NIB SDM3055 with V1.01.01.25 FW and before dispatch installed V1.01.01.27R2 with the intention to also install V1.02.01.27R2 well knowing any potential future NAND issues would be minimised......so I thought.
Well I broke it and all the tools Siglent could provide couldn't fix it ! :horse:
I've upgraded FW 100's of times and never before bricked one. :o
As it was a NIB unit it cost Siglent a new digital PCB....
But now with the deep dives by tv84 I wonder if the Product_ID got changed in SDM3055 also ? :-//
Which begs the thought.....are all our existing recovery files now obsolete if Product_ID's are changed ?
So if we look at our current SDM recovery resources:
https://siglent.tawk.help/article/instrument-stuck-at-boot-screen-recovery
SDM3065X and SDM3065X-SC f/w: 3.01.01.10
https://mega.nz/file/w9sikZhJ#BzKVSf5XofB19buJOlWocM6h1spY1DtOf3InBYCYoQg
V3.01.01.10 is what this recovers to and from tv84's deep dive that will be a Product_ID 12000 but Product_ID 12001 recovery package is needed now after a V3.02.01.12R1 install and for all later versions.
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Which begs the thought.....are all our existing recovery files now obsolete if Product_ID's are changed ?
Yes, they are obsolete.
Not specifically because of the Product_ID but because of the system changes @tv84 showed earlier.
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I'd like to see Keysight take their modern 344XXA series off WinCE and see how smoothly they make that happen. ;)
You can bet that's not going to happen. This move from WinCE will be a new DMM at an even higher price point!!
Best
Worse than that, they made a stupider meter instead: https://www.keysight.com/us/en/products/digital-multimeters/benchtop/essential-benchtop-digital-multimeters.html (https://www.keysight.com/us/en/products/digital-multimeters/benchtop/essential-benchtop-digital-multimeters.html)
So they offer that new junk, the same WinCE 344XXA stuff, and the same old 3458A with fresh lipstick.
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Which begs the thought.....are all our existing recovery files now obsolete if Product_ID's are changed ?
Yes, they are obsolete.
Not specifically because of the Product_ID but because of the system changes @tv84 showed earlier.
One expects recovery files to always recover an instrument, regardless of the FW version installed. Period !
Sure recovery may install very dated firmware but if a working and functional firmware upgrade path exists we can still get to the latest firmware version and any/all of the benefits that might offer.
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Which begs the thought.....are all our existing recovery files now obsolete if Product_ID's are changed ?
Yes, they are obsolete.
Not specifically because of the Product_ID but because of the system changes @tv84 showed earlier.
One expects recovery files to always recover an instrument, regardless of the FW version installed. Period !
Sure recovery may install very dated firmware but if a working and functional firmware upgrade path exists we can still get to the latest firmware version and any/all of the benefits that might offer.
It's not that simple. The filesystem changed between versions to improve performance of the meters, and to help avoid NAND issues that made the recoveries needed in the first place.
Hypothetically, you could possibly go back to the old filesystem, but that would add similar risks that might brick your meter at that point.
What they should make is a new recovery that works with any version, and installs the new filesystem and new firmware. It's a little optimistic & naive for them to think they won't ever need a recovery after these recent fw updates...which has already been proven wrong.
All that said, it might be possible to mess with the old recovery to force install to the old version, but that's risky. Somewhere along the lines of high risk / low reward.
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..............
What they Siglent should make is a new recovery that works with any version, and installs the new filesystem and new firmware.
Well I look at it this way, since USB recovery packages are now widely online...instead a new SDM3065X firmware (or whatever SDM model) hiding a full recovery structure so anyone can get to a V3.02.* state without an issue.
And while Siglent are at it, a new SD card recovery system too....maybe that should remain private....after all it's their IP.
From where I'm sitting SDM3000 models are all pretty mature and unlikely to get any/many future updates BUT what we have now MUST be fixed and pronto.
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Agreed, except for keeping the new recoveries private part. I don't think there's a need for that. If somebody wants to get ahold of it for nefarious reasons, they will anyway.
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Just been messaged by HQ......1 week and a new SDM3065X firmware should be available.
Watch this space:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=24 (https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=24)
Does this include support for the 30A current shunt, like they added for the SDM3045/55 ?
On Siglent EU website (https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/06/SDM3065X-Firmware-Revise-History-3.02.01.15R2-.pdf (https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/06/SDM3065X-Firmware-Revise-History-3.02.01.15R2-.pdf)) the Release Notes list the following:
Date Version Revision
2025/12/09 3.02.01.15R2
- This firmware version must be upgraded from V3.02.01.12R1
- Disable auto-zeroing during the execution of MEASure measurement commands.
- Fixed the bug in the ROUT:DATA:REMO? query command.
- Fixed the offset zero bug during current measurement.
- Added software options for accessory SCD30A.
- Fixed software BUG of scanning card.
- Add copyright Notice.
I have not tested much but found that in AC or DC Current Measurement there is now a "Option Measure" soft button on the screen, which allows using the SCD30A high current shunt (which I do not have and therefore cannot test).
Seems that I was lucky that my SDM3065X came with V3.02.01.13 from factory and the update to V3.02.01.15R2 went well.
BTW two years ago I had a similar stuck boot problem with my SDM3055 after a failed update from V1.01.01.27R2 to V1.01.02.27R2. Tautech was very helpful to help me restore it to boot (my SDM3055 needed the SD card recovery).
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Short update:
My unit failed right after the "successful update"to 3.02.01.12R1. It just gets stuck at the boot screen indefinately.
However, every once in a few dozen starts it would start up so one of these times I took the opportunity to upgrade it to the latest 3.02.01.15R2. This update said successful too but the unit will still get stuck at the boot screen. And still after multiple restarts sometimes it comes back to life. It is then fully usable.
I also noticed that the start-up times on my unit does not represent the actual numbers I tried to get it working again so most of the unsuccessful boots are not counted, but some are it seems. Weird?
Here's a screen shot to show that it is indeed running on 3.02.01.15R2 at this moment.
I won't shut it off for now in case someone has an idea with some SCPI command to try and test something maybe, now that it is up and running. :)
Edit: Seems it doesn't really reliably run. When I tried to "restore to factory defaults" it froze up completely. Managed to get it started again after a few tries, froze again with the same action. I wil try to start it up again and leave it be for a couple of hours to see if it freezes by itself.
Edit2: It started up again, seems like it does need significantly less tries with the 15R2 as when I was stuck with the 12R1 firmware. Still not good of course :)
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:phew:
Try reinstalling 3.02.01.15R2.
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Which begs the thought.....are all our existing recovery files now obsolete if Product_ID's are changed ?
Well, the Recovery Files don't take into account the Product_ID and that is the danger! It's not a bug, it's a feature in order to override other problems. But that can create bigger problems if they are used in a wrong way.
In this case we have a complete redesign of the Filesystem underlay, as such, the old Recovery can't handle the new Filesystem.
My 50 cents...
BTW: This is the type of upgrade that I would say: better do a Factory Reset before doing it.
One expects recovery files to always recover an instrument, regardless of the FW version installed. Period !
The Recovery files are booted/recognized from the bootloader in the device. If the flashed bootloader isn't expecting an old USB Recovery framework, it won't boot it! As simple as that.
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:phew:
Try reinstalling 3.02.01.15R2.
Results in the same issue. Stuck at bootscreen most of the time and hangs when "Set to defaults" is pressed. Found out that it also hangs when doing nothing after the last "succesful" boot-up. within a few minutes. Before it kept working for a few hours.
It is very unpredictable and unstable.
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Results in the same issue. Stuck at bootscreen most of the time and hangs when "Set to defaults" is pressed.
Something is not right with the transition from the old filesystem. I bet the app is accessing wrong disk space.
Only the devices that were released already with UBIFS (i.e. v3.02.xxxx) are the ones that can handle the new v3.02.xxx versions.
I hope Siglent has a trick up their sleeve because this seems like troubles... or a RMA.
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Hello,
I bought my Siglent SDM3065X in last year 2/2025 with the firmware V3.01.01.12R1 (Release Date 04.27.23).
Yestrday I make the directly update (without V3.02.01.12R1, this was not published on www.siglenteu.com (http://www.siglenteu.com) !!!) to the new V3.02.01.15R2 (Release Date 06.04.26), download from https://www.siglenteu.com (https://www.siglenteu.com).
There was no problems during the update process, after restart I see in the systeminfos the new V3.02.01.15R2.
Is it possible, that there can be problems by the calibration after the update?
Where are the problems?
Are the problems only by older devices?
With best regards from Germany
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I bought my Siglent SDM3065X in last year 2/2025 with the firmware V3.01.01.12R1 (Release Date 04.27.23).
If you bought it new last year, then it more likely came with a V3.02.xx.xx preinstalled. Mine is older than that, and it already had V3.02.xx.xx.
Did you take a photo/screenshot with the firmware version before upgrading?
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I can confirm that my SDM3065X was successully upgraded from 3.02.01.12R1 (it came with it, new, in July 2023) to 3.02.01.15R2 (downloaded from here: https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#). HW version is 02-02-00-05-00. No issues, the new external shunt option showed up as expected.
EDIT: Also tried EasyDMMX_V1.0.3 - works, blue font.
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I don't think so, but might there be any difference within the FW files themselves from different regions?
I have just thought, that when Diskus pre-installed FW is no typo, he is the first, being able to upgrade from 3.01.01.12R1 to 3.02.01.15R2 error-free, and he used the Europe version for his within Europe bought SDM3065X, maybe there is something to look for?
Here are the Download-Links from the same latest FW "SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN":
Europe:
========
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/19832/?tmstv=1780778969 (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/19832/?tmstv=1780778969)
Japan:
=======
https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN-.zip (https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN-.zip)
North America:
===============
https://siglentna.com/download/50340/?tmstv=1780765960 (https://siglentna.com/download/50340/?tmstv=1780765960)
I opened all three *.ADS files with GHex, but as I don't know where to look for, maybe others are able to do so...
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All 3 .ADS have the same CRC32. They are the same files.
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All 3 .ADS have the same CRC32. They are the same files.
This one too ?
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN-.zip
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All 3 .ADS have the same CRC32. They are the same files.
This one too ?
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN-.zip
Yep. Their .ADS CRC32's are 6EA54AC8.
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Is there any indication that the SDM3065X accuracy has changed following the latest update?
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Is there any indication that the SDM3065X accuracy has changed following the latest update?
Why would it?
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I guess his legitimate question is based on the fact, that "Diskus" is - till now - the one and only person, who succeeded to upgrade his SDM3065X from his pre-installed FW 3.01.01.12R1 directly and error-free to the latest FW 3.02.01.15R2 without any intermediate step(s) and only with the use of the latest Europe FW "SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2"!
Since at least two other forum members now have a problem to use their SDM3065X the way they were used to it, I guess, that our new forum member - as a so called "Newbie" - should get a reasonable answer to his question, because not anybody is willing to pay for a "DMM Check Plus" or similar device or has several 6 1/2 benchtop multimeters to crosscheck them with different values...
...and allthough I'm not affected, because of my pre-installed FW 3.02.01.13, I'm curious enough, to get some more info from him, how he did so exactly and maybe even proven with pictures and/or videos...
But that is only my interpretation and I don't make any claim of correctness... ;)
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I guess his legitimate question is based on the fact, that "Diskus" is - till now - the one and only person, who succeeded to upgrade his SDM3065X from his pre-installed FW 3.01.01.12R1 directly and error-free to the latest FW 3.02.01.15R2 without any intermediate step(s) and only with the use of the latest Europe FW "SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2"!
Since at least two other forum members now have a problem to use their SDM3065X the way they were used to it, I guess, that our new forum member - as a so called "Newbie" - should get a reasonable answer to his question, because not anybody is willing to pay for a "DMM Check Plus" or similar device or has several 6 1/2 benchtop multimeters to crosscheck them with different values...
...and allthough I'm not affected, because of my pre-installed FW 3.02.01.13, I'm curious enough, to get some more info from him, how he did so exactly and maybe even proven with pictures and/or videos...
But that is only my interpretation and I don't make any claim of correctness... ;)
It might be as simple as installing one FW after another or a user shutdown between each.....or having the Default boot setting vs the Last setting.
Gradually a picture will build to help us understand and the sooner the better. :popcorn:
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I guess his legitimate question is based on the fact, that "Diskus" is - till now - the one and only person, who succeeded to upgrade his SDM3065X from his pre-installed FW 3.01.01.12R1 directly and error-free to the latest FW 3.02.01.15R2 without any intermediate step(s) and only with the use of the latest Europe FW "SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2"!
Since at least two other forum members now have a problem to use their SDM3065X the way they were used to it, I guess, that our new forum member - as a so called "Newbie" - should get a reasonable answer to his question, because not anybody is willing to pay for a "DMM Check Plus" or similar device or has several 6 1/2 benchtop multimeters to crosscheck them with different values...
...and allthough I'm not affected, because of my pre-installed FW 3.02.01.13, I'm curious enough, to get some more info from him, how he did so exactly and maybe even proven with pictures and/or videos...
But that is only my interpretation and I don't make any claim of correctness... ;)
My question was also legitimate. I wasn't being rude.
It's a simply question: why would you expect the firmware update to change the device accuracy?
Was there a known issue that they're referring to? Did they specifically have an issue? What does accuracy mean?
The follow up would be whether or not they felt there was an issue with accuracy or not. Or maybe they mean stability? You can't accurately answer that question without more details.
My DAQ6510 was in cal until January. Before cal expired, I did the user adjustment for the SDM3065X to match it. Now the SDM is also "accurate." Whatever that means.
Stability is also pretty good now that it's a couple years old. It was nowhere near my 34465A when it was younger.
The K2010 in the chart is a WIP. ;)
Regarding the firmware update: unless he can provide a screenshot showing his previous firmware version, I think he was mistaken. My SDM3065X was a 3.02.xx.xx variant purchased in April of 2024. It's unlikely that they bought a meter a year later and got an older firmware variant.
Thanks,
Josh
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What I meant to ask was whether the software update could inadvertently affect the calibration?
Unfortunately, I didn't take a screenshot of the old firmware before the current update. The factory calibration for my multimeter was performed by Siglent on July 16, 2024 (just for reference regarding the unit's age).
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No, you're fine. Your cal data is safe.
If your factory cal isn't awesome anymore, you can also adjust it with the User Cal settings (both User and Factory can be switched back and forth).
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Unfortunately, I didn't take a screenshot of the old firmware before the current update.
You're 99.99999% mistaken. It´s impossible for a 3.01.xxxx machine to accept 3.02.01.15R2 directly. The Product_ID validation that Siglent implements, stops that from happening.
Unless Siglent (or you) had done some change on purpose, on your unit, which I don't believe they did.
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SDM3055 had a recent firmware update (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3055-series) 1.02.01.29R1.
What do they mean with "Add automatic power-on function."?
Revise History (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/04/SDM3055-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions-1.02.01.29R1.pdf)
I know this thread has other things on its mind at the moment, but I upgraded my SDM3055 the other day (quite successfully) to ver 29R1 and can't see any evidence of the automatic power-on function (after power loss the meter does not power up on power restore). I expected to see it added as a menu option on the 'system' menu but that looks unchanged. Also, it's not mentioned on any other SDM3000 series models. Would Siglent add it only to the 3055 model and none other? Seems unlikely. I'm suspecting that the release notes are mistaken.
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SDM3055 had a recent firmware update (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3055-series) 1.02.01.29R1.
What do they mean with "Add automatic power-on function."?
Revise History (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/04/SDM3055-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions-1.02.01.29R1.pdf)
I know this thread has other things on its mind at the moment, but I upgraded my SDM3055 the other day (quite successfully) to ver 29R1 and can't see any evidence of the automatic power-on function (after power loss the meter does not power up on power restore). I expected to see it added as a menu option on the 'system' menu but that looks unchanged. Also, it's not mentioned on any other SDM3000 series models. Would Siglent add it only to the 3055 model and none other? Seems unlikely. I'm suspecting that the release notes are mistaken.
Exactly.
I didn’t saw any evidence of the feature too, so I asked what Siglent intend with it. It seems... nothing. :-//
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SDM3055 had a recent firmware update (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3055-series) 1.02.01.29R1.
What do they mean with "Add automatic power-on function."?
Revise History (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/04/SDM3055-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions-1.02.01.29R1.pdf)
I know this thread has other things on its mind at the moment, but I upgraded my SDM3055 the other day (quite successfully) to ver 29R1 and can't see any evidence of the automatic power-on function (after power loss the meter does not power up on power restore). I expected to see it added as a menu option on the 'system' menu but that looks unchanged.
It's in a deeper menu, Sys Settings IIRC and it's not working. ::)
Bug reported.
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Bug reported.
Can you also add a report on the non-working relative temperature measurement mode?
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Bug reported.
Can you also add a report on the non-working relative temperature measurement mode?
Please document it.
Model ?
Firmware version ?
Current behaviour ?
Expected behaviour.
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Please document it.
Model ?
Firmware version ?
Current behaviour ?
Expected behaviour.
*idn?
Siglent Technologies,SDM3055,SDM35HBD7R1727,1.02.01.29R1
I tries to measure the period of measurements for Slow, Medium and Fast modes.
Only 41 samples/second for the Fast mode!!! Where is promised 150rd/s ???
As far as I remember, stock firmware was much faster! (but not 150 rd/s definitely)
One more remark: is it possible to increase a speed of the bargraph?? Why does turning on the bargraph slow down the entire multimeter by 5 times!!! |O
And the worst part: in fast mode or when an external trigger with a frequency of >8 Hz is turned on, the entire user interface freezes! Key reaction time becomes ~5 second or more!!
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Nothing special, but with the latest FW 3.02.01.15R2 of the SDM3065X, compared to my pre-installed FW 3.02.01.13, Siglent now added the Mac Address to be visible directly together with IP, Subnet and Gateway now at 4th place: "NoMacAddress vs. MacAddress".
With some other devices I have access to the WebInterface. To be honest, I have never used it, but as I cannot do so with the SDM3065X, it cannot be due to my browser settings, so that I am just curious, if anybody is able to do so? As I haven't done a SnapShot with the other FW before, it has probably never been usable, but just for clarification: "NoWebInterface".
To show, that the LAN connection does work itself, I did a SnapShot of HKJ'S brilliant peace of Software "TestController 3.13".
And last but not least, I tried to make a memdump, but couldn't use the telnet patch by tv84 anymore "Update Fail". Maybe this has been prohibited already some time before, but as I have never used it, this is probably also known by others: "NoTelnetAnymore".
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Nothing special, but with the latest FW 3.02.01.15R2 of the SDM3065X, compared to my pre-installed FW 3.02.01.13, Siglent now added the Mac Address to be visible directly together with IP, Subnet and Gateway now at 4th place: "NoMacAddress vs. MacAddress".
With some other devices I have access to the WebInterface. To be honest, I have never used it, but as I cannot do so with the SDM3065X, it cannot be due to my browser settings, so that I am just curious, if anybody is able to do so? As I haven't done a SnapShot with the other FW before, it has probably never been usable, but just for clarification: "NoWebInterface".
................
SDM3000 models do not offer a webrowser and instead for PC control/viewing EasyDMM or DMM-X must be used along with the bloated NIVISA for the USB and/or LAN connectivity drivers.
If you can find NIVISA Runtime online it is far smaller yet still ~100MB and has the connectivity drivers for the SDM3000 models.
The SDM4000A range does offer a webrowser for full remote control which also includes a SCPI page for scripting these devices.
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The R&S VISA tools are a lot less bloat than NI and the GUI tool (R&S Visa tester) is pretty complete.
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And last but not least, I tried to make a memdump, but couldn't use the telnet patch by tv84 anymore "Update Fail". Maybe this has been prohibited already some time before, but as I have never used it, this is probably also known by others: "NoTelnetAnymore".
I haven't been following the "telnet funcionality" for some years so don't know if it has been discontinued. But, first and foremost, the previous .ADS would never work since it was assembled with the old Product_ID.
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SDM3055 had a recent firmware update (https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3055-series) 1.02.01.29R1.
What do they mean with "Add automatic power-on function."?
Revise History (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/04/SDM3055-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions-1.02.01.29R1.pdf)
I know this thread has other things on its mind at the moment, but I upgraded my SDM3055 the other day (quite successfully) to ver 29R1 and can't see any evidence of the automatic power-on function (after power loss the meter does not power up on power restore). I expected to see it added as a menu option on the 'system' menu but that looks unchanged. Also, it's not mentioned on any other SDM3000 series models. Would Siglent add it only to the 3055 model and none other? Seems unlikely. I'm suspecting that the release notes are mistaken.
Sadly the Auto Power On feature is only compatible with the newest HW. :o
Not even with the latest FW in some SDM3055 just a month or 2 old we have in stock ! :rant:
Apparently the Digital PCB requires replacement for this feature to function.
That there is also no mention of any HW requirement in the 29R1 Release notes is pretty poor form from Siglent. :-//
I've given them a serve about this......
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And last but not least, I tried to make a memdump, but couldn't use the telnet patch by tv84 anymore "Update Fail". Maybe this has been prohibited already some time before, but as I have never used it, this is probably also known by others: "NoTelnetAnymore".
I haven't been following the "telnet funcionality" for some years so don't know if it has been discontinued. But, first and foremost, the previous .ADS would never work since it was assembled with the old Product_ID.
Maybe, when we have a memdump of 3.01.01.12R1 and a memdump of 3.02.01.12R1 or ...13 or ...15R2 you could compare them as far as the filesystem structure is concerned and maybe one could flash/clone a working one with a non-working one and inject the original SN back, in case there will be no way out to revive those unusable SDM3065X by some other forum members?
Maybe we, of course only with the help of tv84, will profit from this exercise for any future update...till tautech will inform us from his HQ source in the near future about the real deal...?
...just brainstorming - don't know whether such a workaround is even possible...or even justifying all the time and work to put into it...but solving a "problem" does also make fun and as we all know from KungFuJosh's true saying:
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
So, we all learn only from mistakes and if anything goes well, there will never be the aha-effect! :)
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Guys, I now have a SDM3065X USB recovery package available by PM only.
It recovers to V3.02.01.13 FW.
I'm gone to a big NZ show today and don't expect to be back for ~14hrs then I can start answering your PM's
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Guys, I now have a SDM3065X USB recovery package available by PM only.
It recovers to V3.02.01.13 FW.
I'm gone to a big NZ show today and don't expect to be back for ~14hrs then I can start answering your PM's
I'm willing to try this recovery package, I've got nothing to lose. :)
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5 PM's replied to. :phew:
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5 PM's replied to. :phew:
You should take a nap. That sounds like a lot of work. ;) ;)
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5 PM's replied to. :phew:
Is that a good thing or a bad thing, considering that five people have needed it so far... ;)
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Is that a good thing or a bad thing, considering that five people have needed it so far... ;)
I didn't need it; I just wanted it. ;)
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5 PM's replied to. :phew:
You should take a nap. That sounds like a lot of work. ;) ;)
I did, yesterday was a big day for an ol' fella walking my legs off here:
https://www.fieldays.co.nz/ (https://www.fieldays.co.nz/)
About 2.5hrs from home and it was great to spend the day with our #3 there.
But the reply to you all was a bulk PM just to check it worked.....never used it before.
Can you see who the other recipients where ?
There is a BCC option but didn't use it.
5 PM's replied to. :phew:
Is that a good thing or a bad thing, considering that five people have needed it so far... ;)
Good I think, AFAIK only Josh didn't actually need it, just the insurance of having it.
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5 PM's replied to. :phew:
You should take a nap. That sounds like a lot of work. ;) ;)
I did, yesterday was a big day for an ol' fella walking my legs off here:
https://www.fieldays.co.nz/ (https://www.fieldays.co.nz/)
About 2.5hrs from home and it was great to spend the day with our #3 there.
But the reply to you all was a bulk PM just to check it worked.....never used it before.
Can you see who the other recipients where ?
There is a BCC option but didn't use it.
5 PM's replied to. :phew:
Is that a good thing or a bad thing, considering that five people have needed it so far... ;)
Good I think, AFAIK only Josh didn't actually need it, just the insurance of having it.
I didn't "need" it either. I just wanted it before I decide to do an upgrade. Now I'm waiting to see if those that were impacted can restore their meters before I move forward. I have been burned too many times for early adoption and no backups.
I have the experience that Josh's quote mentions.....
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I will be able to try the recovery this evening. I'm gonna post the results here of course.
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I didn't need it either (at the moment), but if so, I have a question, in order to understand different scenarios a little bit better:
I guess "Salient666" and "mawyatt" have no other choice, than doing the "Recovery", as their SDM3065X are either partly unusable or in a boot loop, if I remember correctly - so they have to use the "Recovery" and will probably succeed: I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!!
However, tv84 mentioned the change in the "Product_ID" respectively a change in the filesystem structure?!
Let us assume, I bought an used SDM3065X with FW 3.01.01.12R1:
1st scenario:
- FW 3.01.01.12R1 is installed on my SDM3065X and I want to upgrade
- I do the upgrade to FW 3.02.01.R12 as it is told to do so, which may or may not work (I think mawyatt could do so?)
- if it does, I do the upgrade to FW 3.02.01.15R2
- now, I will probabaly run into difficulties (maybe also a boot loop?) and do the "Recovery"?
- or, if it doesn't work, I do the "Recovery" one step earlier?
=> is this the (best) way to go?
or
2nd sceanrio, which I would probably prefer, as I know, that there is no problem at all, to upgrade from FW 3.02.01.13 (= the same as the Recovery-Version) to FW 3.02.01.15R2:
- FW 3.01.01.12R1 is installed on my SDM3065X and I want to upgrade
- in order to directly eliminate all "may or may not work problems", I would - when it is possible, immediately use the "Recovery" to be directly on the safe side with FW 3.02.01.13
- and then, as I am on the safe side, do the normal upgrade to FW 3.02.01.15R2 without any problems at all
=> is this even possible or do we have the same "conflict" with tv84's obervation with the change of the "Product_ID"?
It would be nice if tv84 could comment on this again and what is probably the best way to proceed? :-//
Thank you very much!!! :)
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Well, I havent seen 3.02.01.13 (as in I don't have it) but I'm assuming it only works with the new Product_ID so you'll always have to go through 3.02.01.12.
And dont think about using Recovery as a "normal" upgrade procedure. Use it as contigency.
So, keep the sequence: 12 -> 13 -> 15
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All 3 .ADS have the same CRC32. They are the same files.
This one too ?
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/A_multimeter/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN-.zip
Yep. Their .ADS CRC32's are 6EA54AC8.
When I finally got round to tracking down the app that had shown a calculate checksum option today (wxHexEditor ver 0.24 Beta for Linux), I obtained the following values instead:-
File: /home/john/Desktop/Test Equipment/Siglent kit/Siglent Bench Multimeter kit/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2.ADS
CRC32: 01a87a23
CRC32B: c84aa56e
Surely, there's only one well defined method for calculating CRC32 and CRC32B checksum values? :-//
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WinRAR shows the correct CRC32.
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Thank you for showing where you'd gotten those checksum values. I'm on a Linux system but Ark produces the same values, presumably on the compressed files which gives a different checksum to the extracted file I had checked out with wxHexEditor's checksum calculator.
I'd totally forgotten that Ark also displays CRC checksum values. :palm:
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Surely, there's only one well defined method for calculating CRC32 and CRC32B checksum values? :-//
Not really, there are many ways, but usually there is one way (more or less) for a specific purpose:
https://crccalc.com/?crc=123456789&method=&datatype=ascii&outtype=hex (https://crccalc.com/?crc=123456789&method=&datatype=ascii&outtype=hex)
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Thanks (I think) :-//
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Thanks (I think) :-//
I use Ubuntu and just did this via terminal: sudo apt-get install libarchive-zip-perl
As Linux does not like "spaces" between "file structures", it is always good to prevent any error message by including two '...' at each end of the command, when doing something with a terminal, for example:
Instead of:
crc32 /home/benchtop/Schreibtisch/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2.ADS
This is always the secure way:
crc32 '/home/benchtop/Schreibtisch/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2.ADS'
...or you copy your files onto the "desktop" to have the linking to the files as short as possible...
I did check both *.ADS files via terminal: SDM3065X_3.02.01.12R1 and SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2, so that you can see, how it should look like within linux.
PS: In order to copy something into the terminal, either use "the right mouse button and insert a copied link" or "Shift + CTRL + V", because the simple shortcut "CTRL + V" does not work within a terminal, but only within a normal file browser, document, etc....
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File: /home/john/Desktop/Test Equipment/Siglent kit/Siglent Bench Multimeter kit/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2.ADS
CRC32: 01a87a23
CRC32B: c84aa56e
No need to reinvent the wheel! Siglent distributes the packages via .ZIP files. You just need to open those .ZIP and see the CRC32 that it's already included for each file (the CRC is already there an doesnt depend on the viewer, it's the standard of the ZIP format.
As HJK said, there are plenty of CRC32 methods! We tend to use only a few. In this case it was reduced to the one and only that is inside the .ZIP.
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@PushUp I'm all to familiar with the need to use SHFT CTRL V in a CLI session (however, the gui version of pasting also works - you just need to remember to hit the left arrow to place the cursor at the end of the pasted string before moving on).
@tv84 Ark provides the same crc32 feature as WinRAR so "problem solved". :)
BTW did you try checking the CRC32 sums on the extracted files? Just curious to see if you saw the same figures as I'd obtained on my extracted files.
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I didn't need it either (at the moment), but if so, I have a question, in order to understand different scenarios a little bit better:
I guess "Salient666" and "mawyatt" have no other choice, than doing the "Recovery", as their SDM3065X are either partly unusable or in a boot loop, if I remember correctly - so they have to use the "Recovery" and will probably succeed: I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!!
I tried the recovery procedure but unfortunately to no avail.
It keeps saying (upside down and reversed) "Upgrading, please do not power off!" and then after a minute or so in a normal way "Upgrade succeed". There it just stays forever.
After a dozen times repeating this it wen through once to the normal operation UI screen. It was indeed on firmware 3.02.01.13 (and it reset the start-up counts to 1 as well) but when I tried a factory reset, the meter froze.
It won't start again and keeps hanging on the boot screen.
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I noticed that one of the files they changed was the upgrading.bmp.
Why the heck touch a file that was correct?? :-// :-// :palm:
The .bmp are supposed to be inverted in order to appear correct. That again shows that this is being done without the care it deserves!
Regarding the new hanging: it definitely looks like the new FS package has a bug on its core. Now we have a way to start a recovery but the FW that is being flashed is bad.
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@tv84 - just brainstorming:
Does it make sense, to repeat the "Recovery", till the SDM3065X is brought back to life once again with FW 3.02.01.13, but then do nothing but immediately upgrade to the official 15R2, in order to keep it running?
No factory reset, no look into the menu, just trying to upgrade?
...or does the SDM3065X take over/keep all the bugs from this problematic Recovery-FW 3.02.01.13 into the filesystem of 15R2, so that it is better to wait and not trying to brick the SDM3065X with rash actions and probably better wait for a response of tautech's HQ source?
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You could try it if it gives a chance for it. It doesnt get any worse than it is, flashing the v15.
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@tv84 - just brainstorming:
Does it make sense, to repeat the "Recovery", till the SDM3065X is brought back to life once again with FW 3.02.01.13, but then do nothing but immediately upgrade to the official 15R2, in order to keep it running?
No factory reset, no look into the menu, just trying to upgrade?
...or does the SDM3065X take over/keep all the bugs from this problematic Recovery-FW 3.02.01.13 into the filesystem of 15R2, so that it is better to wait and not trying to brick the SDM3065X with rash actions and probably better wait for a response of tautech's HQ source?
In the meantime I did just that, but it still doesn't boot most of the time after that and still locks up most of the time whenever it DOES boot.
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Now another question about the sdm3065x screen saver, I have mine set to 1Hour and using it now on continuity, I was buzzing stuff, watched 1-2mins of a movie, then buzzed something else, but the screen saver kicked in again, and I had to hit a button.
My firmware ends with 12R1, maybe 1 year old or less ? But yeah IDK, maybe it's just I hadn't pressed a button in 1 hour ?
I think I remember Tautech said that, yeah IDK, it just caught me off-guard again.
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9 years ago I purchased an SDM3065X-SC.
During operation, the recovery package was used 3 times due to the "Siglent SDM3065 black screen" error.
Device parameters:
FW Version ID: 3.01.01.12R1
HW Version ID: 02-02-00-05-00
Production ID: SDM3065X
How safe is it to update the firmware on SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2.ADS (CRC32: 6EA54AC8)?
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9 years ago I purchased an SDM3065X-SC.
During operation, the recovery package was used 3 times due to the "Siglent SDM3065 black screen" error.
Device parameters:
FW Version ID: 3.01.01.12R1
HW Version ID: 02-02-00-05-00
Production ID: SDM3065X
How safe is it to update the firmware on SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2.ADS (CRC32: 6EA54AC8)?
I don't think its safe especially for the meters that didn't ship with "3.02" to start with. I am not sure where things are in this thread. Several people reported bricking their devices and I'm not sure if they have contacted Siglent or are looking to see if tautech can help here.
Unless you have an issue you're trying to fix and can't wait, I'd wait.
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9 years ago I purchased an SDM3065X-SC.
During operation, the recovery package was used 3 times due to the "Siglent SDM3065 black screen" error.
Device parameters:
FW Version ID: 3.01.01.12R1
HW Version ID: 02-02-00-05-00
Production ID: SDM3065X
How safe is it to update the firmware on SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2.ADS (CRC32: 6EA54AC8)?
I don't think its safe especially for the meters that didn't ship with "3.02" to start with. I am not sure where things are in this thread. Several people reported bricking their devices and I'm not sure if they have contacted Siglent or are looking to see if tautech can help here.
Unless you have an issue you're trying to fix and can't wait, I'd wait.
Good advice!!
We are still waiting for Siglent to come up with a verified solution!!
Best
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We are still waiting for Siglent to come up with a verified solution!!
Have you tried the recovery package Rob provided?
Thanks,
Josh
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We are still waiting for Siglent to come up with a verified solution!!
Have you tried the recovery package Rob provided?
Thanks,
Josh
No not yet. We are not that good with this sort of stuff and since nobody has reported a complete recovery, we are just waiting.
Think Siglent factory is looking at this in detail as Rob has informed them of this situation.
Best
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We are still waiting for Siglent to come up with a verified solution!!
Have you tried the recovery package Rob provided?
Thanks,
Josh
No not yet. We are not that good with this sort of stuff and since nobody has reported a complete recovery, we are just waiting.
Think Siglent factory is looking at this in detail as Rob has informed them of this situation.
Best
Gotcha. I'd try the recovery, but I have the newer hardware that didn't have any trouble, and I don't want to mess with my user cal.
If you want to try it, use a clean (empty) USB drive (8GB or less, FAT or FAT32 to be safe) with nothing on it besides the recovery files in the root. In theory at least, it will either work and restore your meter, or nothing will happen.
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If you want to try it, use a clean (empty) USB drive (8GB or less, FAT or FAT32 to be safe) with nothing on it besides the recovery files in the root. In theory at least, it will either work and restore your meter, or nothing will happen.
Unfortunately I can tell you this is not the case. Although the new recovery package from Rob will always install correctly on my meter, using several 4GB and 8GB old USB sticks, the meter will keep having the same issues (not booting 29 out of 30 times or so, and if it boots, it will hang randomly, sometimes after less than a minute, somtimes after an hour).
So the fact that the package says that it is successful, this is no guarantee that it actually is.
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Well, that sucks. They clearly missed something.
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Still no further response from tautech's HQ source?
So, here is a little bit more brainstorming for Salient666 and his useless SDM3065X...
However, before doing anything, wait for tv84 and his estimation!
As far as I know, you have done this so far, without getting back to an usable SDM3065X compared with your former working and pre-installed FW 3.01.01.12R1:
01) 3.01.01.12R1 - EasyDMM-X via LAN works, but blinking LED in standby => usable, but dissatisfied => trying to upgrade
02) 3.02.01.12R1 - No EasyDMM-X via LAN, Upgrade failed due to "Product_ID 12000 vs. Product_ID 12001" or change in filesystem structure => now unusable
03) 3.02.01.13 - failed* to recover with corrupted (?!) Recovery Files "SDM3065X USB flash drive recover V3.02.01.13" => still unusable
* = the process itself works, but with no usable SDM3065X in the end
04) 3.02.01.15R2 - Upgrade from corrupted (?!) Recovery FW 3.02.01.13 to 15R2 also without success => still unusable
Let us assume the worst case, that you have to send your SDM3065X to your dealer/Siglent, blaming them to publish unusable Firmware files. You would probably get back a working SDM3065X, including calibration, and then being on the final FW version 3.02.01.15R2 to be ready for any future update. If that was a fair arrangement, I would probably invest up to 100 Euro including shipping, which is something between "goodwill" and Siglent knowing, that they have done a mistake, which they cannot admit, because otherwise they would be sued...
However, before doing so or waiting for tautech's HQ response, I would test some other scenarios:
A) After using the "corrupted Recovery Files 3.02.01.13", you should be (in reality you are probably not) on "Product_ID 12001". When we trust the changelog, you cannot downgrade to 3.01... anymore. However, when you are still able to downgrade to your former working FW 3.01.01.12R1, then you know, that the Product_ID conversion wasn't successful and you should have a working SDM3065X again?
=> Are you able to downgrade to your former working FW 3.01.01.12R1
=> Any change?
=> If this is possible, but still does not work properly, are you also able to use the "1st Recovery" => D) at the bottom? Is this a useful thing to consider or too risky?
B) When A) does not work, your SDM3065X probably has implemented the new "Product_ID 12001". Therefore, after using the "corrupted recovery Files 3.02.01.13", you have two further possibilities to try:
aa) use latest corrupted recovery files, in order to be on 3.02.01.13, but immediately try to downgrade to 3.02.01.12R1
=> Any change?
bb) use latest corrupted recovery files, in order to be on 3.02.01.13, but immediately upgrade to 15R2 and then try to downgrade to 3.02.01.12R1
=> Any change?
C) As the corrupted recovery files are called "...USB flash drive recover...", it is probably not a good idea to use the internal card reader, but maybe (!?) the recovery works better via this way...?
Service Manual with disassembly procedures to get to the card reader:
https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Document/Digital%20Multimeters/SDM3065X_ServiceManual_SM06036-E02F.pdf
=> Any change?
D) Apart from this none-working "2nd Recovery", there is still the "1st Recovery"?! Maybe the 1st recovery files are able to provoke a change or brick anything completely?
Source:
https://siglent.tawk.help/article/instrument-stuck-at-boot-screen-recovery
SDM3065X and SDM3065X-SC f/w: 3.01.01.10
https://mega.nz/file/w9sikZhJ#BzKVSf5XofB19buJOlWocM6h1spY1DtOf3InBYCYoQg
=> Any change?
In the meantime I would probably contact your dealer and/or Siglent to ask for any help/arrangement/estimated charges...till tautech will get some more info...?
Here are the latest PDF-Files for the SDM3065X:
Quick Start, 2024-08-28:
https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Document/Digital%20Multimeters/SDM_Series_QuickStart_EN04B.pdf
User Manual, 2024-08-28:
https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Document/Digital%20Multimeters/SDM3065X_Usermanual_E02B.pdf
Data Sheet, 2024-08-28:
https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Document/Digital%20Multimeters/SDM3065X_datasheet_e03a.pdf
Service Manual, 2025-11-07:
https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Document/Digital%20Multimeters/SDM3065X_ServiceManual_SM06036-E02F.pdf
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AFAIK recovery files ignore Product_ID, and are (usually) not downgradable. Definitely not possible directly in this case.
The only way you could potentially downgrade via the firmware is to modify the Product_ID on the old firmware to match the new / current Product_ID set by the newer firmware.
Doing that might still be dangerous due to the file system changes. However, if successful at all, then maybe, if also lucky, the old recovery would work.
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Are you able to downgrade to your former working FW 3.01.01.12R1
Use latest corrupted recovery files, in order to be on 3.02.01.13, but immediately try to downgrade to 3.02.01.12R1
Unfortunately, a downgrade from 3.02.01.13 to 3.02.01.12R1 is not possible. Also a downgrade to any 3.01.01.xx version is not possible. It will result in a FAIL message right away.
Only options are to either stay on 3.02.01.13 or upgrade to 3.02.01.15R2, both of which result in rarely booting up and eventually freezing up.
C) As the corrupted recovery files are called "...USB flash drive recover...", it is probably not a good idea to use the internal card reader, but maybe (!?) the recovery works better via this way...?
Service Manual with disassembly procedures to get to the card reader:
https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Document/Digital%20Multimeters/SDM3065X_ServiceManual_SM06036-E02F.pdf
=> Any change?
I haven't tried this yet. I might give it a shot.
D) Apart from this none-working "2nd Recovery", there is still the "1st Recovery"?! Maybe the 1st recovery files are able to provoke a change or brick anything completely?
Source:
https://siglent.tawk.help/article/instrument-stuck-at-boot-screen-recovery
SDM3065X and SDM3065X-SC f/w: 3.01.01.10
https://mega.nz/file/w9sikZhJ#BzKVSf5XofB19buJOlWocM6h1spY1DtOf3InBYCYoQg
=> Any change?
The 1st recovery mode simply doesn't start from any of my USB disks. The new one always starts (and always tells me it is successful, although it's not).
In the meantime I would probably contact your dealer and/or Siglent to ask for any help/arrangement/estimated charges...till tautech will get some more info...?
I have contacted Siglent Europe last week, but so far no reply whatsoever. I am willing to pay and in my mind I had something around 100 - 150 euros to get it fixed. Considering what I paid for this device I think it's still worth that.
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Rolling back to FW 3.01.01.12R1:
I didn't thought of this but, YES, it's possible. I could create a 3.01.01.12R1 with Prod_ID 12001 and that would allow to bypass the validation. BUT... the filesystem layer would be different and, as such, I think failure or (worst case) total brick could be a possibility. Any Linux expert could shim in... It would be definitely dependent on the bootloader. But if it was ok, I think using the OLD Recovery Disk after that might save the day.
Regarding payment for revival: I guess Siglent would have to bank for all of it!
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....................
C) As the corrupted recovery files are called "...USB flash drive recover...", it is probably not a good idea to use the internal card reader, but maybe (!?) the recovery works better via this way...?
Service Manual with disassembly procedures to get to the card reader:
https://siglent.oss-cn-shenzhen.aliyuncs.com/English_content/Document/Digital%20Multimeters/SDM3065X_ServiceManual_SM06036-E02F.pdf
=> Any change?
I haven't tried this yet. I might give it a shot.
DO NOT use USB recovery packages for uSD card recovery ! !
These are quite different packages and you will certainly brick the meter.
uSD card packages load earlier in the boot process to write the complete OS but Cal data is still retained and not overwritten.
However we haven't yet explored uSD card recovery to get back to a FW 3.01 **** working state to then install more recent FW than the uSD card recovery installs.
For those with currently non-functional units this path should be considered ......
PM for the package and this can be shared privately but not to be posted online please.
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However we haven't yet explored uSD card recovery to get back to a FW 3.01 **** working state to then install more recent FW than the uSD card recovery installs.
Or they can provide a uSD 3.02 recovery that miiiight actually work?
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However we haven't yet explored uSD card recovery to get back to a FW 3.01 **** working state to then install more recent FW than the uSD card recovery installs.
Or they can provide a uSD 3.02 recovery that miiiight actually work?
Too early to say.....HQ is on Dragon boat hols for a few days....but yes we would hope so.
The feedback from @PushUp is valuable for HQ to see as we try to find a 100% workable solution.
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Updated mine. Started from V3.01.01.12R1, which is no longer available on the updated website, strangely enough.
I went to V3.02.01.12R1 first and then did the final upgrade to V3.02.01.15R2.
I haven't even tried the V3.01.01.06R2 since the roll back from V3.02.... to V3.01.... is not possible.
No issues at all, the meter works like a dream and I can now connect to it via ethernet using EasyDMM software.
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Some evidence ;D
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Updated mine. Started from V3.01.01.12R1, which is no longer available on the updated website, strangely enough.
I went to V3.02.01.12R1 first and then did the final upgrade to V3.02.01.15R2.
I haven't even tried the V3.01.01.06R2 since the roll back from V3.02.... to V3.01.... is not possible.
No issues at all, the meter works like a dream and I can now connect to it via ethernet using EasyDMM software.
Thank you for posting your successful route to the V3.02.01.15R2 upgrade. This might be pure luck or an indication that Siglent have actually and finally solved this issue.
I'd previously updated to V3.02.01.12R1 correction V3.01.01.12R1 a year or three back. My attempt to upgrade to V3.02.01.15R2 just (briefly!) flashed a fail message, leaving the meter at V3.01.01.12R1.
Seeing all the serious problems others braver than myself had suffered as a result of attempts to bypass this roadblock, I won't be following in your footsteps until I see evidence from Rob and others that Siglent have actually fixed this issue. My meter is working just fine under V3.02.01.12R1 and I'm not in any immediate need of the promised improvements.
[EDIT] BTW, your 2nd post arrived whilst I was still composing mine. I noticed that the hardware version number of mine (still on V3.01.01.12R1) matches your meter's hardware version which bodes well for an upgrade to V3.02.01.15R2 when it finally becomes a "safe bet" to do so.
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Just been messaged by HQ......1 week and a new SDM3065X firmware should be available.
Watch this space:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=24
Does this include support for the 30A current shunt, like they added for the SDM3045/55 ?
Yes it does. Thanks for pointing out, I did not know about this shunt.
I need to get that module. ;D
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Updated mine. Started from V3.01.01.12R1, which is no longer available on the updated website, strangely enough.
I went to V3.02.01.12R1 first and then did the final upgrade to V3.02.01.15R2.
I haven't even tried the V3.01.01.06R2 since the roll back from V3.02.... to V3.01.... is not possible.
No issues at all, the meter works like a dream and I can now connect to it via ethernet using EasyDMM software.
Thank you for posting your successful route to the V3.02.01.15R2 upgrade. This might be pure luck or an indication that Siglent have actually and finally solved this issue.
I'd previously updated to V3.02.01.12R1 a year or three back. My attempt to upgrade to V3.02.01.15R2 just (briefly!) flashed a fail message, leaving the meter at V3.02.01.12R1.
Seeing all the serious problems others braver than myself had suffered as a result of attempts to bypass this roadblock, I won't be following in your footsteps until I see evidence from Rob and others that Siglent have actually fixed this issue. My meter is working just fine under V3.02.01.12R1 and I'm not in any immediate need of the promised improvements.
[EDIT] BTW, your 2nd post arrived whilst I was still composing mine. I noticed that the hardware version number of mine (still on V3.02.01.12R1) matches your meter's hardware version which bodes well for an upgrade to V3.02.01.15R2 when it finally becomes a "safe bet" to do so.
I bought this meter around four years ago and had it failed on me once already. About a year ago after a boot up, the screen turned on but there was no numbers at all, just dots. I can't find the pictures right now, but anyway thanks to Rob we managed to revive it back to life.
Another thing may be worth mentioning, it appeared that the upgrade V3.02.01.12R1 took longer than V3.02.01.15R2. And since I had already known about the issues other users were having, I did get a little panicky, but it all turned out alright for me in the end.
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Some evidence ;D
EasyDMM always worked. The new compatibility is with EasyDMM-X. It's worth having both versions.
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Thanks Josh
And here I am thinking I have discovered something new. :-DD
Thing is, I never use my computer to watch what the DMM is doing.
In any case, I'll download and check this EasyDMM-X too.
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Can confirm. EasyDMM-X is working fine.
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Started from V3.01.01.12R1, which is no longer available on the updated website, strangely enough.
This firmware can be found.
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/06/
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/06/SDM3065X_3.02.01.12R1_EN-.zip
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/06/SDM3065X_3.02.01.15R2_EN-.zip
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So there's folks with bricked meters out there and Siglent doesn't seem interested in lifting a finger to resolve that problem?
If this is the case, I'm regretting purchasing Siglent hardware. I'd be furious right now if I had spent this kind of money to have a bricked or unreliable instrument because the OEM doesn't give a flip to resolve the issue. I haven't upgraded the firmware on mine because it works with the latest PC software already.
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5 PM's replied to. :phew:
Siglent should give you a handsome stipend beyond your net margin. A lot of us would be in worse shape if not for you.
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So there's folks with bricked meters out there and Siglent doesn't seem interested in lifting a finger to resolve that problem?
How did you come to that conclusion?
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So there's folks with bricked meters out there and Siglent doesn't seem interested in lifting a finger to resolve that problem?
How did you come to that conclusion?
There appears to be people in this thread that have unreliable meters after upgrades and those that have unusable meters. No?
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I have contacted Siglent Europe last week, but so far no reply whatsoever. I am willing to pay and in my mind I had something around 100 - 150 euros to get it fixed. Considering what I paid for this device I think it's still worth that.
This is the last but not the only instance I've seen of people trying to use the published firmware to have unusable DMMs now. If this is resolved, my apologies but I've been watch and I don't believe I've seen a general solution or any solution for those that had older meters that appear to be in some bad state after trying to do the upgrades to allow for the PC software to work.
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AFAIK Siglent have provided recovery kits for most. if not all, situations. Tautech would be better able to address that as I have not owned every product Siglent has made. However, as a happy customer of Siglent for more than 6 years I have to say I have been nothing sort of delighted with their support. Sure, I have had three issues I consider serious out of the eight Siglent instruments I own and 100% of those were addressed and resolved in a matter of dayss. The most spectacular was a display that misbehaved on a DC load, and they cross shipped me a replacement the day I sent in my problem report and it actually arrived before I had shipped the problem unit back. Can you think of any other instrument network that would respond like that?
I have also had more than one "me" issue that has either been addressed here on this forum via an experienced and helpful community, or by the tireless Tautech, or addressed by a phone call from a Siglent support engineer.
So. My gentle suggestion, unsolicited as it is, would be ... Unless you have some first hand experience with unsupported products ... keep your speculations to yourself ... On the other hand, If you have solid evidence that Siglent refused to support a product, please bring forth a adequately documented case. Okey dokey?
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I have contacted Siglent Europe last week, but so far no reply whatsoever. I am willing to pay and in my mind I had something around 100 - 150 euros to get it fixed. Considering what I paid for this device I think it's still worth that.
This is the last but not the only instance I've seen of people trying to use the published firmware to have unusable DMMs now. If this is resolved, my apologies but I've been watch and I don't believe I've seen a general solution or any solution for those that had older meters that appear to be in some bad state after trying to do the upgrades to allow for the PC software to work.
Did you not see, or not care to see this response form Tautech?
PM for the package and this can be shared privately but not to be posted online please.
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AFAIK Siglent have provided recovery kits for most. if not all, situations. Tautech would be better able to address that as I have not owned every product Siglent has made. However, as a happy customer of Siglent for more than 6 years I have to say I have been nothing sort of delighted with their support. Sure, I have had three issues I consider serious out of the eight Siglent instruments I own and 100% of those were addressed and resolved in a matter of dayss. The most spectacular was a display that misbehaved on a DC load, and they cross shipped me a replacement the day I sent in my problem report and it actually arrived before I had shipped the problem unit back. Can you think of any other instrument network that would respond like that?
I have also had more than one "me" issue that has either been addressed here on this forum via an experienced and helpful community, or by the tireless Tautech, or addressed by a phone call from a Siglent support engineer.
So. My gentle suggestion, unsolicited as it is, would be ... Unless you have some first hand experience with unsupported products ... keep your speculations to yourself ... On the other hand, If you have solid evidence that Siglent refused to support a product, please bring forth a adequately documented case. Okey dokey?
I see fellow forum members (more than one) posted here that have said they have issues. What's wrong with me having concerns that they get their systems working?
You wish that I have I have solid evidence, documented and all? Why are you attacking me for having compassion for my fellow forum member, does that offend you?
BillyO, are you saying I just bugger off and STFU if I'm concerned that these fellow forum members get their equipment working?
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I have contacted Siglent Europe last week, but so far no reply whatsoever. I am willing to pay and in my mind I had something around 100 - 150 euros to get it fixed. Considering what I paid for this device I think it's still worth that.
This is the last but not the only instance I've seen of people trying to use the published firmware to have unusable DMMs now. If this is resolved, my apologies but I've been watch and I don't believe I've seen a general solution or any solution for those that had older meters that appear to be in some bad state after trying to do the upgrades to allow for the PC software to work.
Did you not see, or not care to see this response form Tautech?
PM for the package and this can be shared privately but not to be posted online please.
BillyO, I have it. I was one of the ones that PM'd. Do you see resolution?
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BillyO, are you saying I just bugger off and STFU if I'm concerned that these fellow forum members get their equipment working?
No, not in those words. But maybe you can see if there has been adequate follow up, or have they just taken the advice/solution and scuttled off without reporting back as to whether their problems have been solved or not. Maybe your focus is different than mine. Maybe you are looking more eagerly for problems than you are for solutions, IDK. I have already given you my experiences, but apparently, because they are positive, they carry little weight. Neither do the plethora of other happy respondents. It seems the only cases that stick in your mind are those that whine, receive a solution offer, but never respond, and it's those that seem to be your yardstick. No actual experience, just a negative echo. No problem. I'm sure Siglent will survive despite your take.
I'm sure Rigol (or UNI-T .. LOL!) will appreciate you rbusiness.
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BillyO, are you saying I just bugger off and STFU if I'm concerned that these fellow forum members get their equipment working?
No, not in those words. But maybe you can see if there has been adequate follow up, or have they just taken the advice/solution and scuttled off without reporting back as to whether their problems have been solved or not. Maybe your focus is different than mine. Maybe you are looking more eagerly for problems than you are for solutions, IDK. I have already given you my experiences, but apparently, because they are positive, they carry little weight. Neither do the plethora of other happy respondents. It seems the only cases that stick in your mind are those that whine, receive a solution offer, but never respond, and it's those that seem to be your yardstick. No actual experience, just a negative echo. No problem. I'm sure Siglent will survive despite your take.
I'm sure Rigol (or UNI-T .. LOL!) will appreciate you rbusiness.
You still haven’t provided any specific information showing that the affected meters discussed here were recovered or that their owners received a working solution.
Instead, you’ve speculated about my motives, characterized concerned users as “whiners,” suggested I’m looking for problems, and told me another manufacturer would appreciate my business. None of that adds useful information to the discussion.
I acknowledged your positive experience with Siglent, but personal anecdotes do not answer the question I raised about these particular firmware failures. If you have details about the recovery kits, the affected models, or the outcomes for the members in this thread, that would be helpful. Otherwise, this has become an attack on me for expressing concern rather than a discussion of the actual issue.
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5 PM's replied to. :phew:
Siglent should give you a handsome stipend beyond your net margin. A lot of us would be in worse shape if not for you.
Thanks Bill, I try my best when time permits.
For those with stuck SDM3065X and failed USB recovery, the only remaining recovery path that exits that I know of is to use the uSD recovery package to return the meter to a working state and then the update path should be:
uSD recovery to a unknown firmware version, probably a V3.01.01.** version
V3.01.01.10 < last V3.01.01.** public version
V3.02.01.12R1 < transition to V3.02.01.12R1
V3.02.01.15R2 <the latest version
Not tested but it should work.
However for those with units still in warranty, using the uSD card recovery requires opening the meter to access the uSD card holder.
Only Siglent HQ will supply the uSD card recovery package on request from support@siglent.com
Any selecting to follow this path should document their recovery attempt and date it should the recovery fail and there needs to be a call on the 3yr warranty.
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I've just sent an email to siglent with the request for the uSD files.
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5 PM's replied to. :phew:
Siglent should give you a handsome stipend beyond your net margin. A lot of us would be in worse shape if not for you.
Thanks Bill, I try my best when time permits.
For those with stuck SDM3065X and failed USB recovery, the only remaining recovery path that exits that I know of is to use the uSD recovery package to return the meter to a working state and then the update path should be:
uSD recovery to a unknown firmware version, probably a V3.01.01.** version
V3.01.01.10 < last V3.01.01.** public version
V3.02.01.12R1 < transition to V3.02.01.12R1
V3.02.01.15R2 <the latest version
Not tested but it should work.
However for those with units still in warranty, using the uSD card recovery requires opening the meter to access the uSD card holder.
Only Siglent HQ will supply the uSD card recovery package on request from support@siglent.com
Any selecting to follow this path should document their recovery attempt and date it should the recovery fail and there needs to be a call on the 3yr warranty.
I appreciate that you've represented Siglent outside of your distribution area. I think it shows a lot of care for your fellow forum members.
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We're in the same boat as Salient666, but haven't had the time to attempt a recovery yet (we don't use the DMM much, so no hurry).
On of the discoveries Siglent folks find is the fantastic support Siglent has here, well beyond the factory. Folks like tautech, tv84, Performa01, 2N3055 and so on provide a level of user support we've never experienced in our career. These folks are quite knowledgable, with decades of hands on experience, and a willingness to help anyone with a problem...Siglent or otherwise :clap:
The folks that have Rigol, Keysight, Tektronix, (Paul seems a stand alone R&S resource with great videos and help) and so on don't benefit from this like Siglent folks do. It's shame that Rigol hasn't created a similar environment, altho some seems to be forming around their new DSOs.
Anyway, we're confident this issue will be resolved and may require the SD Card procedure tautech mentioned. One shouldn't be too concerned about "breaking the quality control sticker", Silent is not going to use that as a means to void your warranty, they are not like US insurance companies, don't ask how we know (still fighting about hurricane damage 2 years ago) |O
Best
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My experience with Siglent support is a mixed bag, but I still think they're above average. However, sometimes they annoy me enough that I consider selling everything with a Siglent sticker on it. 🤷
That said, their worst day is better than the likes of Rigol or Fnirsi or Hantek or Owon will ever offer.
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My experience with Siglent support is a mixed bag, but I still think they're above average. However, sometimes they annoy me enough that I consider selling everything with a Siglent sticker on it. 🤷
That said, their worst day is better than the likes of Rigol or Fnirsi or Hantek or Owon will ever offer.
I think that's inline with my frustrations. I have a ton of equipment. Almost all of it falls under the HPAK, R&S, and Tek brands. But, my first reach scope is my Siglent scope as my primary. I also have a Siglent DMM, sig gen and power supply in my collection. I've had some issues and couldn't get responses from Siglent but given they eventually fixed the issues in later firmware I am good.
I have recommended this gear to people. Sorta put my name on it. So I feel some responsibility, especially to some younger folks I mentor in FIRST robotics/STEM teams.
I felt the frustration for these folks that have chosen to "trust" Siglent and update their systems to have them basically bricked and unusable. I would assume they have examples of the various spins of the models and be able to test properly.
This issue started with Siglent having left a substantial amount of the SDM3065X owners with firmware that wouldn't work with the PC Software.
Graciously Tautech went above and beyond for the community and poked them about it. I'm grateful to Tautech.
Hopefully all of the folks that have been impacted will have their SDM3065Xs up and running soon with the compatible firmware that will work with the PC software.
I have moved to using TestController because of Josh so I don't use it anymore. :)
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I guess I have to write off my 3065X.. Siglent is not responding to any of my messages/mails. Maybe they don't care.. But this will probably the last piece of equipment I've bought from them.
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I guess I have to write off my 3065X.. Siglent is not responding to any of my messages/mails. Maybe they don't care.. But this will probably the last piece of equipment I've bought from them.
Sure hope they respond. We are in the same boat and waiting for a verified solution, altho not in any hurry as we have other preferred DMMs we use.
Maybe Rob can get on their case a little ::)
Best
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I guess I have to write off my 3065X.. Siglent is not responding to any of my messages/mails. Maybe they don't care.. But this will probably the last piece of equipment I've bought from them.
Which Siglent branch did you try emailing?
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Is it a feasible option to make a backup from the sd-card prior running in such troubles?
In my case I'm having tow of the SDM3065X devices so hopefully not both will run in this
problem simultaneously so one sd-card will remain for a recovery action.
But if someone is owner of only one device a prior backup could be a good precaution.
Markus
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SDM3065x: hardware 02-02-00-05-00 and firmware V3.01.01.12R1
tried upgrade from V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.02.01.12R1 - failed at 10%
tried upgrade from V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.02.01.15R2 - failed immediately
tried downgrade from V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.01.01.10 - worked!
tried upgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.02.01.12R1 - failed at 10%
tried upgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.02.01.15R2 - failed immediately
tried downgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.01.01.06R2 - worked!
tried upgrade from V3.01.01.06R2 to V3.01.01.10 - worked!
tried (again) upgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.02.01.12R1 - failed at 10%
tried (again) upgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.02.01.15R2 - failed immediately
... now stuck at V3.01.01.10. Any suggestions?
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SDM3065x: hardware 02-02-00-05-00 and firmware V3.01.01.12R1
tried upgrade from V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.02.01.12R1 - failed at 10%
tried upgrade from V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.02.01.15R2 - failed immediately
tried downgrade from V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.01.01.10 - worked!
tried upgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.02.01.12R1 - failed at 10%
tried upgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.02.01.15R2 - failed immediately
tried downgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.01.01.06R2 - worked!
tried upgrade from V3.01.01.06R2 to V3.01.01.10 - worked!
tried (again) upgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.02.01.12R1 - failed at 10%
tried (again) upgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.02.01.15R2 - failed immediately
... now stuck at V3.01.01.10. Any suggestions?
do you have a large file content on your SDM3065X local device, as may requires some large space to unpack and to proceed ??
Hp
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I have e-mailed Siglent again to beg them for the uSD recovery files.
In the meantime, to numb my pain I resorted to buy Tony's SDM4065A :)
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I emailed SiglentNA to ask about it also. I don't have the issue with my meter, but it's worth a shot for others.
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do you have a large file content on your SDM3065X local device, as may requires some large space to unpack and to proceed ??
Hp
SDM3065x storage is empty. I can downgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.01.01.06R2 and upgrade back as many times as I want without problems.
There is only an incompatibility when upgrading from V3.01.01.10 to V3.02.01.12R1, it fails at 10%
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SDM3065x storage is empty. I can downgrade from V3.01.01.10 to V3.01.01.06R2 and upgrade back as many times as I want without problems.
There is only an incompatibility when upgrading from V3.01.01.10 to V3.02.01.12R1, it fails at 10%
I wouldn't push this. Those that had issues semi-bricked their meters.
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do you have a large file content on your SDM3065X local device, as may requires some large space to unpack and to proceed ??
Hp
Mea culpa. It seems that @hpw was right after all, at least sort of...
Although the SDM3065x storage was empty, this succession of steps actually enabled the upgrade from V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.02.01.15R2:
Prerequisites: SDM3065x, Hardware 02-02-00-05-00, Firmware V3.01.01.12R1
1. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.01.01.10 -> Select -> Update (this is actually a downgrade)
2. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Security Erase -> Yes
3. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Set To Defaults
4. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.02.01.12R1 -> Select -> Update
5. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.02.01.15R2 -> Select -> Update
Thanks @hpw for the tip!
PS: after the update, the DMM also reads other generic FAT32 USB partitions, not just the W95 FAT32 (LBA) (Bootable) stick I got from Siglent... however, still no NTFS support :(
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Although the SDM3065x storage was empty, this succession of steps actually enabled the upgrade from V3.01.01.10 -> V3.02.01.12R1 -> V3.02.01.15R2:
Prerequisites: SDM3065x, Hardware 02-02-00-05-00, Firmware V3.01.01.10
1. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Security Erase -> Yes
2. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Set To Defaults
3. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.02.01.12R1 -> Select -> Update
4. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.02.01.15R2 -> Select -> Update
Hardware 02-02-00-05-00, Firmware 3.01.01.12R1
Everything was updated normally according to this guide.
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@Tjuurko
I presume you'd had to downgrade from that accursed 3.01.01.12R1 to V3.01.01.10 before following rusale's recipe. I'd upgraded not to v3.02.01.12R1 as I'd mistakenly reported a few posts back but to the cursed V3.01.01.12R1 version I'd upgraded to about a year or three back.
The meter was running V3.01.01.12R1 when I'd attempted to upgrade to V3.02.01.15R2 which immediately failed, luckily in a benign way. So it seems to me that this trouble was all down to the V3.01.01.12R1 version. By following rusale's recipe to downgrade to V3.01.01.10 before upgrading to V3.02.01.12R1, my attempt to upgrade to V3.02.01.15R2 was finally met with success. ;D
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Not underestimating the effort but I guess what makes the real difference is:
1. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Security Erase -> Yes
2. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Set To Defaults
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Not underestimating the effort but I guess what makes the real difference is:
1. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Security Erase -> Yes
2. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Set To Defaults
Seems confusing because of so many forum posts, but the other real difference is that if you are at V3.01.01.12R1 firmware, you first need to downgrade V3.01.01.10+security erase+set to defaults before upgrading further.
Siglent had the V3.01.01.12R1 firmware published on their websites, but they removed it altogether and replaced it with V3.02.01.12R1.
Not working: V3.01.01.12R1 -> V3.02.01.12R1 -> V3.02.01.15R2
Working: V3.01.01.12R1 -> V3.01.01.10-> security erase -> set to defaults -> V3.02.01.12R1 -> V3.02.01.15R2
(I also updated the original post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg6320214/#msg6320214) to be more explicit)
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Siglent had the V3.01.01.12R1 firmware published on their websites, but they removed it altogether and replaced it with V3.02.01.12R1.
If that is the case then I agree that the problem must involve V3.01.01.12R1. Although Siglent, in the beginning, didn't release the V3.02.01.12R1 globally...
Well, this definitely seems a win for EEVBLOG forum members who, once again, discovered a way to overcome a problem quicker than the brand.
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Well, this definitely seems a win for EEVBLOG forum members who, once again, discovered a way to overcome a problem quicker than the brand.
That's true. Unfortunately, the brand still needs to overcome the problem for the meters that were already harmed in the making of this movie.
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That's true. Unfortunately, the brand still needs to overcome the problem for the meters that were already harmed in the making of this movie.
Agree. They earned the money and created the problem, so we should at least leave something for them to fix.
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Well, this definitely seems a win for EEVBLOG forum members who, once again, discovered a way to overcome a problem quicker than the brand.
That's true. Unfortunately, the brand still needs to overcome the problem for the meters that were already harmed in the making of this movie.
the point is as noted on web: V3.01.01.12R1 and you get by download then V3.02.01.12R1 >:D
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This whole debacle over failed firmware upgrades seems to have been triggered by martin1959's post way back at the beginning of June of his success in upgrading from a factory installed V3.02.01.13 to V3.02.01.15R2
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg6277046/#msg6277046 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg6277046/#msg6277046)
I think the problem arose (in my case at least) with a conflation of the cursed version V3.01.01.12R1 with the unreleased V3.02.01.13 and its eventual appearance as V3.02.01.12R1. That, plus an extreme lack of care by Siglent in failing to mention the actual prerequisites required to upgrade to V3.02.01.15R2 left those of us that didn't have a model with the factory installed V3.02.01.13 floundering over the benign failures trying the V3.01.01.12R1 to V3.02.01.15R2 route and the ensuing 'bricking' resulting from ill advised 'workarounds'. Essentially, it was mess created from Siglent's own doing and those of us in too much of a rush to upgrade.
The only good thing out of all this being Siglent finally getting their act together by publishing the actual firmware versions required to complete this upgrade process, although it has to said, with no apology for the confusion and dismay of their (mostly) loyal customer base. :(
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Siglent would be getting its act together if they actually would once reply on e-mail I've sent them multiple times basically begging for a 3.02.xx uSD recovery pack. I've also mailed them I would even be willing to send the unit in and pay a fair price to have it fixed.
They really don't seem to care at all. Now from companies like Uni-T or Hantek I would've not been too surprised by this behaviour but I am quite dissapointed by Siglent right now.
In fact, I once owned an Owon XDM2041 multimeter which had a flaw when measuring ACV and frequency at the same time. in medium and fast mode after 20 - 30 seconds the frequency measurements either froze or just got to 0Hz. Only a reboot of the device would solve this. I sent them a mail (I admit, twice) and to my second mail they responded. Within a week they've sent me another mail with a firmware + instructions that actually fixed this bug!
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'bricking' resulting from ill advised 'workarounds'.
No one bricked their devices from "ill devised workarounds". The process seems rigged from the beginning.
The only good thing out of all this being Siglent finally getting their act together by publishing the actual firmware versions required to complete this upgrade process
I'm still not convinced that they got their act together. I think it's simply a "ohh, we forgot to fully publish the V3.02.01.12R1 FW" that was the only version that allows migration of the Product ID to the new FW.
And, in Siglent's own style (in all of this), they linked the FW version on top of the link of the previous V3.01.01.12R1. :palm: :palm
That goes to show how badly this whole affair was treated, and even in contingency mode they were unable to get the file link totally correct! >:(
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My meter had factory installed 3.02.01.12R1, but it upgraded fine. I dunno what was wrong with the version they posted. 🤷
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My meter had factory installed 3.02.01.12R1, but it upgraded fine. I dunno what was wrong with the version they posted. 🤷
I guess the real problem is that to flash the new 3.02.01.12R1 one must previously do the factory reset, in order to have all the space available, etc. and have the default settings in all of the options/menus. In the end, i think it simply comes down to this.
Since you already started in 3.02.01.12R1, from factory, that condition had already been met.
If my theory is right, based on what hpw and rusoaie have demonstrated, the biggest error was Siglent not warning and demanding people to do that operation (factory reset) before doing the FW flashing/conversion.
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Maaaaaaaaaan, Siglent support is getting worse.
Last week I sent an email to Siglent NA general tech support:
Many owners of the SDM3065X have had firmware update failures that have bricked their DMMs. They’ve reached out to other Siglent branches and have not heard back for support.
The issue primarily pertains to owners that tried updating their V3.01.01.XX firmware devices to the newer V3.02.01.12R1 / V3.02.01.15R2 firmware versions.
Do you have any help or new recovery to offer those Siglent device owners?
No response, so I forwarded that message to general support again, along with a couple specific techs, and their marketing director, with this added:
Does Siglent support not care about this issue? I’ve not received a single reply regarding this. Neither have users with bricked meters.
Is it time to start dumping Siglent gear?
I got a response from some genius that didn't bother to read my email beyond the title saying the SDM3065X is bricked:
Sorry to hear you are having issues with your SDM3065X.
Have you tried this guide?
https://siglent.tawk.help/article/instrument-stuck-at-boot-screen-recovery
Which firmware upgrade were you attempting when you ran into an issue?
Then I responded:
My meter is fine. This was in the email I sent:
Many owners of the SDM3065X have had firmware update failures that have bricked their DMMs. They’ve reached out to other Siglent branches and have not heard back for support.
The issue primarily pertains to owners that tried updating their V3.01.01.XX firmware devices to the newer V3.02.01.12R1 / V3.02.01.15R2 firmware versions.
Do you have any help or new recovery to offer those Siglent device owners?
The recoveries you linked only work on meters that still have the V3.01.01.XX firmware on them. Anything with V3.02.01.XX will not work with those files.
And then the genius replied:
Glad to hear your meter is working.
If you know someone who is having problems with their Siglent products, please have them contact us directly. Always happy to help.
Siglent's support is nosediving into Rigol territory. :palm:
Between the internationally horrific support, and the mediocrity of the SDM4065A, things are not looking great for Siglent lately.
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@KungFuJosh
The genius you mentioned was probably just an AI. :-DD :-DD :-DD The response had that familiar tone I've come to expect of Duck_AI which I sometimes pump for detailed info on aspects of the GPS system such as clock drift error correction data increment size - Answer is that it is 0.446ns which explains the 1 or 2 ns jigs I see quite frequently with a ZED9 FT based G3RUH gpsdo of mine. The ZED9FT does nicely eliminate the ionospheric effects - pity about the need to correct for the on board SV clock drift and the ensuing mayhem on phase stability :(
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The genius you mentioned was probably just a AI. :-DD :-DD :-DD
lol they're giving AI their own emails now?! Noooooooooo!! :-DD
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I got a reply from a real person. Unfortunately, it was mostly:
You do have to be careful about how you upgrade through there.
The firmware instructions are clear:
I explained why the directions were the problem. He also said:
I will work with engineering to see if an additional file for recovery may be available.
Hopefully, they'll have something helpful. 🤷
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I got a reply from a real person. Unfortunately, it was mostly:
You do have to be careful about how you upgrade through there.
The firmware instructions are clear:
I explained why the directions were the problem. He also said:
I will work with engineering to see if an additional file for recovery may be available.
Hopefully, they'll have something helpful. 🤷
I have to upgrade two SD3065x as 3.01.01.12R1 & HW 02-02-00-05-00
Siglent given readme may false as using newer HW with more build in memory. So they do not own any longer older
HW with less memory, before the validate the FW release for older models.
BTW: about my remark to cleanup local memory space. I had similar space issue as to upgrade a SDG2000 (reported here)
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>> I have to upgrade two SD3065x as 3.01.01.12R1 & HW 02-02-00-05-00
Now updated today both gears as using the proposed workaround:
1. downgrade to FW V3.01.01.10
2. security erase & set to defaults
3. upgrade FW V3.02.01.12R1 (upgrade is done after boot, blue as in progress and green as done successful)
4. upgrade FW V3.02.01.15R2 (upgrade is done after boot, blue as in progress and green as done successful)
so the culprit FW is 3.01.01.12R1 as a starting point to avoid |O
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>> I have to upgrade two SD3065x as 3.01.01.12R1 & HW 02-02-00-05-00
Now updated today both gears as using the proposed workaround:
1. downgrade to FW V3.01.01.10
2. security erase & set to defaults
3. upgrade FW V3.02.01.12R1 (upgrade is done after boot, blue as in progress and green as done successful)
4. upgrade FW V3.02.01.15R2 (upgrade is done after boot, blue as in progress and green as done successful)
so the culprit FW is 3.01.01.12R1 as a starting point to avoid |O
Unfortunately it's too late for me..... :)
Anyone interested in a 3065X which boots every once in 20 but still sometimes freezes up?
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Anyone interested in a 3065X which boots every once in 20 but still sometimes freezes up?
May tell more details about: HW release, FW release, running hours as on given on system details & still on warranty or not?
Or did you get this after the FW update from xxx to yyy only?
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Anyone interested in a 3065X which boots every once in 20 but still sometimes freezes up?
May tell more details about: HW release, FW release, running hours as on given on system details & still on warranty or not?
Or did you get this after the FW update from xxx to yyy only?
The meter found a new home already with someone who want to take on the challenge.
I surely hope it's fixable because the meter deserves and the calibration was still well within specs.
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so the culprit FW is 3.01.01.12R1 as a starting point to avoid |O
I updated normally with firmware V3.01.01.12R1 -> V3.02.01.12R1 -> V3.02.01.15R2
The only problem is the mandatory memory clearing.
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I updated normally with firmware V3.01.01.12R1 -> V3.02.01.12R1 -> V3.02.01.15R2
The only problem is the mandatory memory clearing.
As the V3.01.01.12R1 is only ~ 9.7 GBytes and following FW as ~ 37GBytes and upgrading on boot.
This means for me as it requires the mandatory memory clearing:
- backup before upgrading your data as requires a memory cleanup
- a continuous space is required
- some HW releases are not able to support the additional Web Server
- FW kit is for new and old HW equal and upgrade gets blocked do the low memory space for old HW
this has to be noted on the upgrade readme for now on :phew:
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What web server? Did they actually add one?
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What web server? Did they actually add one?
YES, at the SDM4065A model ....
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What web server? Did they actually add one?
YES, at the SDM4065A model ....
Oh, I know the SDM4065A has a web server. This is the SDM3000X thread; I thought you were referring to an SDM3000X hw version with a web server.
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What web server? Did they actually add one?
YES, at the SDM4065A model ....
Oh, I know the SDM4065A has a web server. This is the SDM3000X thread; I thought you were referring to an SDM3000X hw version with a web server.
YES, it may is today to hot...... errata: SDM3065X has no web server... only the SDM4065A model
Hp
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The meter found a new home already with someone who want to take on the challenge.
I surely hope it's fixable because the meter deserves and the calibration was still well within specs.
Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic... ;)
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I think it was a success.
In that one hour after the recovery, I was able to successfully start the meter 6...7 times in a row, with breaks in between.
This weekend, I’ll still run it continuously for a while before updating the firmware.
If it continues to work successfully, it’s thanks to the recovery process via booting from an SD card, which you have to insert into the slot inside the SDM3065X.
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That's good news!!
Rob had indicated that this procedure (booting from the SD card) should work.
Likely will be attempting this on our bricked SDM3065X soon!!
Best
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it’s thanks to the recovery process via booting from an SD card, which you have to insert into the slot inside the SDM3065X.
I guess, that a newer recovery version has been leaked to you, as you definitely couldn't use the already known recovery method "Instrument Stuck at Boot Screen - Recovery" any more, which also used the internal SD-Card-Reader... ;)
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I think it was a success.
In that one hour after the recovery, I was able to successfully start the meter 6...7 times in a row, with breaks in between.
This weekend, I’ll still run it continuously for a while before updating the firmware.
If it continues to work successfully, it’s thanks to the recovery process via booting from an SD card, which you have to insert into the slot inside the SDM3065X.
That is good to hear.
Why Siglent wouldn't provide me this option is still beyond me though. If they would have, I might have not bought the meter I shouldn't...... :-DD
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it’s thanks to the recovery process via booting from an SD card, which you have to insert into the slot inside the SDM3065X.
I guess, that a newer recovery version has been leaked to you, as you definitely couldn't use the already known recovery method "Instrument Stuck at Boot Screen - Recovery" any more, which also used the internal SD-Card-Reader... ;)
No.
From other sources Martin and I can access, he wrote:
After the SD card recovery, the firmware version is 3.01.01.06R1
This confirms the old uSD card recovery package works just fine.
I think it was a success.
In that one hour after the recovery, I was able to successfully start the meter 6...7 times in a row, with breaks in between.
This weekend, I’ll still run it continuously for a while before updating the firmware.
If it continues to work successfully, it’s thanks to the recovery process via booting from an SD card, which you have to insert into the slot inside the SDM3065X.
That is good to hear.
Why Siglent wouldn't provide me this option is still beyond me though. If they would have, I might have not bought the meter I shouldn't...... :-DD
Only Siglent HQ seems to share the uSD card recovery packages on request. Period.
It might seem the EU and US branches wanna get the unit back for recovery and bill you for the pleasure. :horse:
Which of course is :bullshit: when circumstances like these arrive when instead all branches should be going above and beyond to fix these issues in any way they can.
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Only Siglent HQ seems to share the uSD card recovery packages on request. Period.
It might seem the EU and US branches wanna get the unit back for recovery and bill you for the pleasure. :horse:
Which of course is :bullshit: when circumstances like these arrive when instead all branches should be going above and beyond to fix these issues in any way they can.
If that's the case, they really should consider a different approach on customer support.
I know they are reading with us here, they know my unit was faulty and, as it turned out, easily fixable with the uSD package. Instead they decided to just let it be, but in the process had me buy a meter which I wasn't even allowed to?? :-//
Anyway, for me, it will be very hard to recommend Siglent products as of now.
Even just a simple answer to one of my mulptiple e-mails with a "we can't help you like that, you will have to ship your device and pay for the repair" would've been actually fine by me, but the total radio silence is what bothers me the most.
Don't get me wrong, I like most of their products, I now have the SDM4065A and even with its shortcomings (let's be honest, it has quite a few) I still think it's a nice piece of kit with great potential. But aftersales really matters.
Now there is also a discussion about the firmware of the 4065A. The latest is supposed to be 0.0.0.20 but there is a video (see the SDM4000 thread) where it clearly shows 0.0.0.22R1.
So either this is _really_ specific for this particular hardware revision (which differs from mine) or they, again, don't have their act together.
It's really unfortunate because as I said, there is a LOT of potential in their products.
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Siglent does need to improve their customer service quality and consistency and communication.
I wouldn't overthink the 4065A firmware though. It's not released yet publicly, and I will guess the beta team hasn't tested it yet either. You of all people know we don't want a firmware that hasn't been tested properly yet. ;)
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Siglent does need to improve their customer service quality and consistency and communication.
I wouldn't overthink the 4065A firmware though. It's not released yet publicly, and I will guess the beta team hasn't tested it yet either. You of all people know we don't want a firmware that hasn't been tested properly yet. ;)
Yet there are devices with newer firmware circulating, so…
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Siglent does need to improve their customer service quality and consistency and communication.
I wouldn't overthink the 4065A firmware though. It's not released yet publicly, and I will guess the beta team hasn't tested it yet either. You of all people know we don't want a firmware that hasn't been tested properly yet. ;)
Yet there are devices with newer firmware circulating, so…
so...what? You want buggy, untested firmware? You're brave! ;)
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so...what? You want buggy, untested firmware? You're brave! ;)
Never again! :)
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Siglent does need to improve their customer service quality and consistency and communication.
I wouldn't overthink the 4065A firmware though. It's not released yet publicly, and I will guess the beta team hasn't tested it yet either. You of all people know we don't want a firmware that hasn't been tested properly yet. ;)
Yet there are devices with newer firmware circulating, so…
so...what? You want buggy, untested firmware? You're brave! ;)
you're stating the 4065A is not publicly available, but they are, even with more recent firmware.
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you're stating the 4065A is not publicly available, but they are, even with more recent firmware.
You're basing that off of one unit you saw on youtube. Maybe it was a loaner unit for review?
It's also not new for a firmware to be shipped in new units before it's available for upgrade.
Either way, we don't know the details...and I'm not rushing into trouble.
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Hi...
The thread does mention a possible solution for upgrading to the latest firmware if the meter is running version V3.01.01.12R1.
You're supposed to “downgrade” to V3.01.01.10, then perform a secure erase, restore the default settings, and then continue with the upgrade.
It's already been confirmed that this method works.
And now I'm back with my 3065X, which was successfully brought back to life using the SD Card Recovery Pack... ;)
The meter then has firmware version 3.01.01.06R1.
I can upgrade to 3.01.01.10 without any problems.
But when I try to upgrade to 3.02.01.12R1, the following happens:
At some point, the screen displays a message indicating the upgrade was supposedly successful, and the meter freezes.
When you restart it, the meter freezes on the boot logo....
The only option left is to perform a recovery via the internal SD card.
I’ve done this twice now, with the same negative result both times.
As I understand it, this simply means that something is missing in version 3.01.01.10, which is preventing me from updating to the latest versions.
Just to remind, in my case, installing 3.01.01.10 isn't a “downgrade,” but an actual upgrade due to the recovery process.
But that would also mean that a “downgrade” as described here—from 3.01.01.12R1 to 3.01.01.10—isn't really a downgrade; in other words, something from 12R1 must have “carried over,” and that's what I'm missing now.
It's great that 3.01.01.12R1 is no longer available...
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It's great that 3.01.01.12R1 is no longer available...
But it's right here: https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3065x-series (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-multimeters/#sdm3065x-series)
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Unfortunately not; that's a typo in the name.
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Unfortunately not; that's a typo in the name.
Ok, good think I still have it from 'back'then' in that case.
I'll send it via PM
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To add to the confusion, the same version is available on Siglent EU and Siglent NA—but one is labeled “01” and the other “02”...
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Wow.. They seem to really care about correct firmware updates for customers..... |O
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It's great that 3.01.01.12R1 is no longer available...
Here (https://limewire.com/d/TrpzH#TAVNds3qDJ).
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Thanks, but Salient666 has already helped me out; I'll try that tomorrow after the third recovery.
If that’s the solution—first upgrading to 3.01.01.12R1, then downgrading to 3.01.01.10 so you can upgrade to the newer 02 versions... I probably don’t need to explain it any further for you to imagine what that’s like.
A disaster.
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Dont do downgrade!
Go 6 -> 10 -> 12 -> 2.12
Better yet:
After doing 6 via sdcard, do another recovery this time with the USB package. Only then go with the upgrades.
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If you look at the date, the files were completed, you can see that the FW, which is in terms of naming the "older" FW "3.01.01.12R1" is in reality seven hours "younger", than the following FW "3.02.01.12R1"...
This indicates, that they only realized in retrospect, that the upgrade step not only with Product_ID and file system structure, but also with actual file size (10 MB vs. 37 MB) is too big, that they put together an intermediate step "3.01.01.12R1", that was knitted with a hot needle and under time pressure...
(https://imghoster.de/images/2026/08/08/hot-needle.md.png) (https://imghoster.de/image/Mdm2y)
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Are you suggesting they foresaw this debacle in 2022?
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Are you suggesting they foresaw this debacle in 2022?
My proof is, that "Salient666" could use the LAN with the newest "EasyDMM-X" Software being on "3.01.01.12R1", but you not, because he had the newer FW from date, but not from naming.
You had version "3.02.01.12R1", which seems to be newer, but is in reality older, as you couldn't use the LAN with "EasyDMM-X".
That's my conclusion from all this and everything else can only be answered by the the person responsible for all this chaos at Siglent, which will never ever happen! :)
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Are you suggesting they foresaw this debacle in 2022?
My proof is, that "Salient666" could use the LAN with the newest "EasyDMM-X" Software being on "3.01.01.12R1", but you not, because he had the newer FW from date, but not from naming.
You had version "3.02.01.12R1", which seems to be newer, but is in reality older, as you couldn't use the LAN with "EasyDMM-X".
That's my conclusion from all this and everything else can only be answered by the the person responsible for all this chaos at Siglent, which will never ever happen! :)
Sorry, but correlation still does not equal causation. My DMM was shipped stock with newer hardware and firmware version 3.02.01.12R1.
I didn't upgrade my firmware at all until this new 15R2 version.
You'd learn more by comparing file sizes instead of what order the files were arbitrarily uploaded in.
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Hi there,
I have programmed a small Android App to display measurements and plots from Siglent DMMs. It should support all current Siglent models: SDM3045X, SDM3055, SDM3065X, SDM4055A and SDM4065A. I have tested it with my own SDM3055 and SDM3065X meters.
Note the hostname of your Siglent DMM must be entered before any connection can be made. Once you have entered your own hostname it will be saved permanently and used in the future.
The measurement is done via SCPI commands as described in Siglent SDM Series Programming Guide, section 5 "MEASure Subsystem" with the default settings and with AUTO range. The plotting function is nice for observing trends, but don't expect it to replace an oscilloscope (expect 1-2 samples per second).
The interval between measurements can be specified independently for the measurement and plot windows. If the interval is configured identical for measurement and plot windows, then the plot buffer will be updated both for measurement or plot window, else the plot buffer will only be updated even when using the plot window.
The switch "Automatic Interval Increase" allows to increase the measurement or plot interval automatically based on measured duration of the measurement. It is useful to find out the typical duration of a DMM measurement, e.g.:
- Switch on "Automatic Interval Increase".
- Start with a small value for Measurement Interval, e.g. 0 ms.
- Switch to measurement window and observe for 1-2 minutes the measurements updating.
- Beware - if you observe during very long time, you may catch untypical "outliers" due to network or DMM variance, raising the interval to an unnecessary high value.
- Switch to settings window and check the Measurement Interval has been automatically increased to e.g. 765 ms.
- Switch off "Automatic Interval Increase".
- Repeat the above steps for the Plot Interval.
- Now you may want to configure Measurement Interval to 2000 ms and Plot Interval to 1000 ms and keep "Automatic Interval Increase" switched off.
The floating action button (X Symbol) shown at bottom right of the plot window allows to clear the plot data buffer.
This App is by no means a replacement for the Siglent EasyDMM software. It is my quick-and-simple tool to start some experiment in my workshop and monitor the progress on the mobile phone so I can watch netflix (or do household chores) during the experiment.
Changes:
- 08.08.2026 V1.0 First version released.
- 11.08.2026 V1.1 Default setting is now empty hostname and a notice at the bottom line. Optimized timing when setting new hostname. Plot window now has action button to clear data.
- 15.08.2026 V1.2 Settings entry and plausibility checks improved.
- 24.08.2026 V1.3 Dimensions and positioning refined for plot window.
- 26.08.2026 V2.0 Dimensions and positioning now auto-adjusting for plot window. "Screen Configuration" setting now obsolete.
- 01.09.2026 V2.1 Show start/end time for plot window data.
- 06.09.2026 V2.2 Configure/Use measurement/plot interval instead of extra delay added after measuring.
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Dont do downgrade!
Go 6 -> 10 -> 12 -> 2.12
Better yet:
After doing 6 via sdcard, do another recovery this time with the USB package. Only then go with the upgrades.
Earlier, I skipped version 10 and updated from 6 to 12—no problems.
Then I tried to upgrade to 3.02.01.12R1, but that went wrong.
Now I've restored it and am back on version 6.
I hadn’t read your edit yet—should I perform a USB recovery now that I’ve restored it?
I only have the new version of it, though.
What’s interesting is that all firmware files up to and including 3.01.01.12R1 are just under 10 MB—but the last two with “02” in the version number are almost four times larger.
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Yes, don«t worry about that. Did you do the full/factory reset after flashing the 1.12? And then after the 2.12, etc.
Yes, try with the new USB recovery that you have.
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Yes, after upgrading to 3.01.01.12R1, I selected “secure erase” and then “defaults.”
After that, I tried to upgrade to 3.02.01.12R1, but that was the end of it—it displayed “success” and that was it; it froze.
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Yes, after upgrading to 3.01.01.12R1, I selected “secure erase” and then “defaults.”
After that, I tried to upgrade to 3.02.01.12R1, but that was the end of it—it displayed “success” and that was it; it froze.
Does this mean you are back to square 1?
Best
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No, that means the Meter froze after the upgrade to 3.02.01.12R1 and remains frozen even after a restart (it gets stuck on the boot screen).
After that, the only option left is to perform a recovery using the internal SD card; once that’s done, it works again and you can upgrade to 3.01.01.12R1 without any problems.
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Just one idea - but, of course, wait for tv84's estimation, before doing anything...
Within linux there is often the problem with usb memory space and its "corruption", so that you have to "repair" this, when you was too careless when unplugging it from the computer, for example, so that it works fine again.
I could imagine that this SDM3065X has something similar, when turning it off during this frozen moment so often, that the memory space is partly corrupted and therefore not enough left to cope with the four times bigger file. Which would support your experience, that this first FW with the 37 MB file makes the problem and freezes...
When you are on the 6er version, maybe you could use tv84's telnet file to inspect and repair the space via a telnet connection?
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Yes, try with the new USB recovery that you have.
It isn't even recognized.
The USB drive is ignored; I think that's because the new recovery is intended for the newer firmware.
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Martin,
If you still get bricked let's try this one (https://limewire.com/d/R92yW#iKxhXA5QEG):
This is the SDM3065X_3.02.01.12R1_ONLY_NAND.ADS.
Do the usual factory reset/secure erase at the 1.12 and then flash this one. Let's see if it hangs after flashing.
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I think it was a success.
In that one hour after the recovery, I was able to successfully start the meter 6...7 times in a row, with breaks in between.
This weekend, I’ll still run it continuously for a while before updating the firmware.
If it continues to work successfully, it’s thanks to the recovery process via booting from an SD card, which you have to insert into the slot inside the SDM3065X.
Martin,
Where is the SD card slot located inside the case?
Service manual is no help!!
Best
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Let's see if it hangs after flashing.
Yeah, it's the same deal—the same process as with the “normal” 3.02 firmware...
So I might as well grab the soldering iron again and pop the SD card in for the umpteenth time.
I bought my first SDM3065X brand-new back in 2023; it already had the 3.02.01.12R1 firmware installed.
And the board was different, too—it was marked “G” instead of “F.”
And the SD card slot was missing on that one...
It’s not as if the bitter truth is that the last two firmware versions only work for newer SDM3065X units....
Where is the SD card slot located inside the case?
Here, Mike:
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So I might as well grab the soldering iron again and pop the SD card in for the umpteenth time.
Why do you need your soldering iron for that?
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Here, Mike:
Great, our isn't populated |O
Best
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Why do you need your soldering iron for that?
You have to solder a jumper so that the boot sequence is changed.
Mike:
Fu.... :(
But it seems, its only the cardholder missing, you got the same board version "F"...
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Great, our isn't populated |O
I have a feeling that whenever you buy a certain product with a certain name and type from Siglent you will still never know what you'll find inside (or in this case, NOT find inside)......
Even the boards are the same revision (F) but still they differ from what has been soldered on.
It reminds me of Commodore back in the 80's.. They also just used whatever was at their disposal at that moment when slapping the computers together.. They must've run out of SD slots here then?
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JOOI, Martin, would that be a "solder blob" or a vacant 2 pin jumper header?
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This looks like the microSD card holder.
https://www.sameskydevices.com/product/resource/msd-1-a.pdf (https://www.sameskydevices.com/product/resource/msd-1-a.pdf)
Guess our only option at this point is to remove the PCB and attempt to solder a SD card holder :P
Best
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This looks like the microSD card holder.
https://www.sameskydevices.com/product/resource/msd-1-a.pdf (https://www.sameskydevices.com/product/resource/msd-1-a.pdf)
Guess our only option at this point is to remove the PCB and attempt to solder a SD card holder :P
Best
This one from the same manufacturer should also fit: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/same-sky-formerly-cui-devices-/MSD-4-A/21796808 (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/same-sky-formerly-cui-devices-/MSD-4-A/21796808)
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JOOI, Martin, would that be a "solder blob" or a vacant 2 pin jumper header?
Hi John,
Solder blob...
I took a piece of wire—it's easier to desolder, and I don't have to mess around on the circuit board.
And the Meter is back to life again...
Solder in the jumper, fiddle the SD card into place, turn it on, wait a bit, then it’s back to life; turn it off, unsolder the jumper, fiddle the SD card out, turn it on, and install the latest working firmware.
Maybe I should just leave it at that.
No, I don’t think I can do that. ;)
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You don't have a 2-pin header you can solder in?
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See the red arrow in the first picture—that's not really a problem.
Of course, I could solder in the missing 2-pin header and use a regular jumper—but I don't really want to have to bring the meter back to life that often. ;)
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You don't want to, but how many time have you so far? ;)
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Can someone go pick up Josh to play? He's bored.... ;)
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After seeing the picture, despite it being a standard 2 pin jumper header, I quite understand your reluctance to install a jumper header pin. However, if you do reconsider this option, one way to avoid removing the PCB would be to push the pins of a new header so the top ends are flush with the plastic retainer. That should give you room to solder the joint from the topside of the board, after which you simply push the plastic retainer flush to the board.
You'd need to ensure that you don't push the pins too far through the holes. For a job like this, I'd bodge a temporary spacer using some handy material such as thin cardboard folded into a handy wedge shape to act as a spacer. Once the right hand pin has been soldered (as viewed in the picture - the left hand pin looks like it will be awkward to access with a soldering iron whilst the spacer is in place), retrieve the cardboard wedge, solder the left hand pin and then push the plastic retainer down. Job done! >:D
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Exactly what Johnny said, but you can use a piece of Krapton tape folded as a spacer. That's easier and safer than adding and removing a soldered wire jumper over and over again putting stress on the pads. ;)
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SDM3000 or SDM4000 or DMM6500
For those who want to purchase a 6.5-digit DMM, what is your recommendation?
There are many measurement experts and enthusiasts here. I need your assistance and guidance.
Long-term accuracy, user friendliness or not, interfaces, circuit topology, quality and MFG support, etc.
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Exactly what Johnny said, but you can use a piece of Krapton tape folded as a spacer. That's easier and safer than adding and removing a soldered wire jumper over and over again putting stress on the pads. ;)
If you do it fast enough, you won't mess anything up—at least nothing important.
Feel free to solder something in; I have absolutely no problem with that. ;)
@BigBoss:
That's a tricky question right now; the timing isn't quite right. ;)
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SDM3000 or SDM4000 or DMM6500
For those who want to purchase a 6.5-digit DMM, what is your recommendation?
There are many measurement experts and enthusiasts here. I need your assistance and guidance.
Long-term accuracy, user friendliness or not, interfaces, circuit topology, quality and MFG support, etc.
If you need very low noise and good accuracy, then a black Keysight 34465A. If you want excellent accuracy (but with more noise than a 34465A), and the best user interface and support, then the DMM6500.
Support is mediocre from Keysight, and right now Siglent isn't doing so well in that regard with their DMMs. I've only had good experiences with Keithley support, though not everybody has the same experience.
If budget forces you to Siglent, then buy my used SDM3065X from the buy/sell/wanted section. ;)
I have the SDM4065A, but I don't recommend it at all right now. Maybe in a year or 5.
Thanks,
Josh
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If you do it fast enough, you won't mess anything up—at least nothing important.
Feel free to solder something in; I have absolutely no problem with that. ;)
You've got a ton of space there. You should be able to solder a header in easily- especially with your fancy new tiny soldering iron. ;)
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But I don't have to—it works just fine this way.
I have completely different problems with the meter than worrying about that.
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Well, I guess at least something is working. ;)
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Indeed...
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After seeing the picture, despite it being a standard 2 pin jumper header, I quite understand your reluctance to install a jumper header pin. However, if you do reconsider this option, one way to avoid removing the PCB would be to push the pins of a new header so the top ends are flush with the plastic retainer. That should give you room to solder the joint from the topside of the board, after which you simply push the plastic retainer flush to the board.
You'd need to ensure that you don't push the pins too far through the holes. For a job like this, I'd bodge a temporary spacer using some handy material such as thin cardboard folded into a handy wedge shape to act as a spacer. Once the right hand pin has been soldered (as viewed in the picture - the left hand pin looks like it will be awkward to access with a soldering iron whilst the spacer is in place), retrieve the cardboard wedge, solder the left hand pin and then push the plastic retainer down. Job done! >:D
That is what I tried two years ago when I had a boot failure with my SDM3055. With the PCB still mounted, I was unable to apply enough heat to the right places and ended up with only one pin header soldered.
Yesterday I disassembled the PCB and properly soldered a 2-pin header. I found it much easier to do that with the PCB removed from the enclosure.
Be careful when disconnecting the flat cables from the PCB. The FFC/FPC sockets have a securing lock which you have to gently move upwards (but not too much) to unlock, and the long flat cable going to the front panel was also secured with adhesive tape which you should remove first.
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There you go, Martin : a classic example of the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" conundrum. ::)
I must admit that I'd overlooked the ground plane connected pin issue. :-[ However, me being me, if I'd decided that the board should really, really be blessed with a proper jumper header, I would've insisted on avoiding the need to remove the board and followed my original proposal before giving it up.
I'm a dab hand at using oversized iron tips (the T12 BC3 is my go to choice ::) ) and in this case, I'd have ascertained which was the ground pin and made provision for that with an alternative way to keep that pin stabilised to the correct depth (and angle!) before sliding the the plastic retainer over the now successfully placed ground pin with the other pin inserted and ready to be pushed to the right depth and soldered, leaving just the final operation of sliding the retainer flush to the board.
Of course, I may have suffered the same issue as you'd came up against and be forced to extract the board or just simply abandon the task altogether. ::)
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You guys are lucky, we've got to yank the PCB out and solder a surface mount microSD card socket (we'll install the jumper also), and HOPE that we can recover this bricked DMM |O
Best
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You guys are lucky, we've got to yank the PCB out and solder a surface mount microSD card socket (we'll install the jumper also), and HOPE that we can recover this bricked DMM |O
Hope it will work out well!
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For now, the 3065X can keep running with the latest working firmware until I have more information.
It will then serve as a rather exclusive thermometer. ;)
Both are “beautiful” meters, but in a direct comparison, I like the newer model better—at least visually.
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To be honest, there is not much wrong staying at the 3.01.01 branch I think anyway.
The software worked on this particular unit so I’d keep it this way until there is a 1000% succesrate with the later branch in the future. :)
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There's no real reason to upgrade the thermometer's firmware. You don't need EasyDMM-X or shunt support for that.
I agree with Martin; Keithley did a fantastic job designing Siglent's new DMM's appearance. ;)
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Since you keep bringing this up, it seems like it’s some kind of trauma for you.
But I can reassure you: when you’re aiming for a functional design, the options become very limited, and everything ends up looking like a copy of something else—think of cars, for example.
Only Rigol, with their DM800, thought, “Let’s make something new and beautiful…”
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Only Rigol, with their DM800, thought, “Let’s make something new and beautiful…”
Which turned out they completely forgot about the inside and how a DMM should work. :-DD
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I have the SDM4065A, but I don't recommend it at all right now. Maybe in a year or 5.
Thanks,
Josh
Why don't you recommend the SD4065A? Has it firmware problems or manufacturing faults??
It looks pretty cool.
My aim is to renew my old friend Fluke 45. It is still in mint condition (the calibration seal is still on it since 1997), but I'm looking for an accurate and modern one.
I will go for the DMM6500 for the time being, but it's not available until September from the distributors.
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Since you keep bringing this up, it seems like it’s some kind of trauma for you.
But I can reassure you: when you’re aiming for a functional design, the options become very limited, and everything ends up looking like a copy of something else—think of cars, for example.
Only Rigol, with their DM800, thought, “Let’s make something new and beautiful…”
lol! You're oversimplifying it, when reality is much clearer. Siglent made very obvious choices in the outer design of their DMMs. It's not a matter of designs for a specific device being limited at all. They copied the designs they wanted to compete with. Look at R&S, Hioki, Fluke and others to see unique designs. Siglent knew what they were doing, and who they chose.
The SDM3000X is a blatant copy of the KS3446XA series meters. The only real visual difference was to change a couple buttons whether they needed a shift key first or not. I like the choices they made BTW. I also like that Siglent gave more control over continuity than Keysight did.
You own a DMM7510. Siglent blatantly copied that design for the SDM4065A. Look at the two meters side-by-side and tell me again that it's not obvious. Wait! My bad. Siglent turned the USB port 90 degrees, so it's a totally different design. ;)
You shouldn't take it as a negative that I say Siglent copied the other designs. I think it was a smart choice on Siglent's part. The Keithley-style design on the SDM4065A is what drew me to it, as I prefer the Keithey UI compared to Keysight.
Thanks,
Josh
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I have the SDM4065A, but I don't recommend it at all right now. Maybe in a year or 5.
Thanks,
Josh
Why don't you recommend the SD4065A? Has it firmware problems or manufacturing faults??
It looks pretty cool.
My aim is to renew my old friend Fluke 45. It is still in mint condition (the calibration seal is still on it since 1997), but I'm looking for an accurate and modern one.
I will go for the DMM6500 for the time being, but it's not available until September from the distributors.
I posted my experience with the SDM4065A in the SDM4000A thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-multimeter/msg6310736/#msg6310736). It's buggy, underdeveloped, and not supported as would be expected by Siglent. It has a lot of potential, but potential is worth little in the short term. I hope in the next couple years Siglent makes some serious improvements, but it could easily be 5 or more years before it sees proper development. Maybe faster if Siglent makes some structural changes. I fear that DMMs are low priority since they have expanded into much more expensive and complex devices.
I expect you'll be much happier with the DMM6500. It's a wonderful meter, well developed, and well supported. It also has my favorite DMM UI, and the script support is awesome. It's superficially noisier than the KS34465A, but otherwise entirely superior for my needs.
Thanks,
Josh
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Look at the two meters side-by-side and tell me again that it's not obvious. Wait! My bad. Siglent turned the USB port 90 degrees, so it's a totally different design. ;)
I told it like it is; I didn't say they didn't copy it, and this is starting to get on my nerves a little.
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I noticed something sort of disturbing. Does anybody have a version of the SDM3065X that is not hardware version 02-02-00-05-00?
There appears to be at least 3 distinct hw revisions of the SDM3065X, and they all say Hardware 02-02-00-05-00.
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/fCylVjwTgooAAAAC/what-up-with-that-snl.gif)
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My SDM3065X has same hardware version 02-02-00-05-00.
Procured in October 2024 from Batronix, came with firmware V3.02.01.13 factory-installed.
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Yesterday, when I re-assembled my SDM3055 after soldering header pins for SD card recovery, I found one screw missing for fixing the rubber bumpers.
These screws are not exactly small so should be not too hard to find after falling down to the floor, but nada nada nada.
Half a day later, it crossed my mind that it is not only gravity that attracts things. And so it was - the lost screw was found firmly attached to the strong magnet located on the back of a flashlight that I had used for the operation and had stocked back on the shelf afterwards.
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It's just 02-02-00-05-00 all the way down.
Proof we live in the matrix. Meow. :scared:
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Half a day later, it crossed my mind that it is not only gravity that attracts things. And so it was - the lost screw was found firmly attached to the strong magnet located on the back of a flashlight that I had used for the operation and had stocked back on the shelf afterwards.
Were you using the flashlight with the screw stuck to it to find the screw? If so, I think @Cyclotron is right about this being the matrix. 🤔
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I am currently developing a system that will show XY coordinates on the floor of the last dropped object.
Soon I will make a very nice video about it and begin a kick starter.
Once I get my $100K I will then disappear in the Bermudas for a while.
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Once I get my $100K I will then disappear in the Bermudas for a while.
Plenty of people disappear in the Bermudas without needing $100k first.
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Okay, my joke was a bad one. Sorry.
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Still woudl like to be able to capture the screen in remote mode and also have keys unlocked on the SDM3055/65.
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Still woudl like to be able to capture the screen in remote mode and also have keys unlocked on the SDM3055/65.
I updated the TestController definition to include the screenshot function. It works on the 3065, and 3055X-E, it probably also works on the 3055.
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I just got a Siglent SDM3055 (no X) and it is stuck at the boot screen. I downloaded the recovery software from Siglent, version “SDM3055 and SDM3055-SC f/w:1.02.01.28”. I also tried “SDM3055 and SDM3055-SC f/w:1.01.01.25”. I used a 4GB flash drive formatted with FAT32 that I have recently used on other Siglent equipment. Neither version of the recovery software worked on the SDM3055.
Anybody got a solution?
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I just got a Siglent SDM3055 (no X) and it is stuck at the boot screen. I downloaded the recovery software from Siglent, version “SDM3055 and SDM3055-SC f/w:1.02.01.28”. I also tried “SDM3055 and SDM3055-SC f/w:1.01.01.25”. I used a 4GB flash drive formatted with FAT32 that I have recently used on other Siglent equipment. Neither version of the recovery software worked on the SDM3055.
Anybody got a solution?
Which FW version were you on previously ?
You can only use V1.02.01.28 if you were already on a 1.02.**** version.
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I don't know. I got this thing as is. It looks like a very old unit. Those two recovery files were the only ones I could find. Is there an SD recovery file available?
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I don't know. I got this thing as is. It looks like a very old unit. Those two recovery files were the only ones I could find. Is there an SD recovery file available?
:scared:
You need know the early FW versions did not support USB recovery until 2017/4/14 V1.01.01.19
1. Add U disk recovery function.
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2026/04/SDM3055-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions-1.02.01.29R1.pdf
Versions before V1.01.01.19 could only be recovered with the uSD card recovery package.....but the calibration can be lost.
Give us a SN# to have a best guess of its age.
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I just got a Siglent SDM3055 (no X) and it is stuck at the boot screen. I downloaded the recovery software from Siglent, version “SDM3055 and SDM3055-SC f/w:1.02.01.28”. I also tried “SDM3055 and SDM3055-SC f/w:1.01.01.25”. I used a 4GB flash drive formatted with FAT32 that I have recently used on other Siglent equipment. Neither version of the recovery software worked on the SDM3055.
Anybody got a solution?
If you tried 1.02 first, and it's not compatible, that might have made it worse. I would try other flash drives with 1.01 a few times before going in another direction.
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SN is SDM305C4140024. It has bumpers like Rigol uses, not the larger ones that Siglent uses now.
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SN is SDM305C4140024. It has bumpers like Rigol uses, not the larger ones that Siglent uses now.
2014
Before USB recovery was made possible with V1.01.01.19 firmware.
Options are:
1. Have Siglent NA recover it and also calibrate it. Get a quote.
2. Source the uSD recovery package from Siglent HQ, NA won't provide it.
Once recovered:
With later FW versions providing the Use Cal feature, calibrate (adjust) it yourself but you will need a bunch of standards and accurate references to do this properly.
See the OP for a video from Defpom on User adjustment.
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Thank you. That is helpful.
I sent an email to support@siglent.com. I hope this is correct.
If I get something from them, I will take a shot at doing the calibration myself. That should be a good learning experience.
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Update.
Micro SD card socket finally arrived, and it fits!!
Got the PCB out and installed the SD socket, and the J16 2 pin header.
However no luck using the SD recovery (V3.02.01.13), as DMM is still in the usual "Update Succeeded" loop!!
Time to pack this up and send off to Siglent NA!!
Best
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However no luck using the SD recovery (V3.02.01.13), as DMM is still in the usual "Update Succeeded" loop!!
Did Siglent send you the microSD recovery files? Or did you try to use the regular recovery?
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However no luck using the SD recovery (V3.02.01.13), as DMM is still in the usual "Update Succeeded" loop!!
Did Siglent send you the microSD recovery files? Or did you try to use the regular recovery?
Siglent indirectly.
Best
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However no luck using the SD recovery (V3.02.01.13), as DMM is still in the usual "Update Succeeded" loop!!
Hmmm......
I've had consistent success with SD Recovery—in other words, it works flawlessly.
I'll send you a PM right away, Mike.
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Same results with Siglent recovery files. SD card formatted with FAT32 on PC, and even changed the SD Card holder (thinking it might be defective), no luck.
Guess it's time to pack this up and send to Siglent NA :(
Anyway, thanks for the help in trying to recover this DMM.
Best
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What model DMM are you having trouble with SD recovery?
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If you follow our posts, we have this model SDM3065X but the SD Card holder on the rear PCB is absent. This was purchased new, so this was how it came from Siglent. We had to remove the rear PCB and install the SD Card holder (not an easy task!!).
Best
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I am currently waiting to hear back from Siglent about SD recovery for an SDM3055.
I agree that changing a port can be difficult. Try an HDMI port. Those are fun.
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Yeah that SD card holder was an SMD with tiny solder pins, to add insult to injury getting a small tipped soldering iron on the pins wasn't easy either :o
No way were we going to attempt a hot air reflow, too risky with other parts close by and on PCB back |O
Best
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I hope Siglent will respond and take their responsibility at this point, it's about time they step in and fix the mess they created.
So the SD recovery is not _that_ universal after all... I wonder how many different PCB's and actual used-components variants there are.
Siglent must be very aware about this of course and that is why they are so extremely careful handing this recovery pack to customers/end users.
That wouldn't be so bad if they would actually RESPOND at least. But they choose the radio-silence approach sand and leave these few unlucky ones drowning it seems....
The most worrying of this is that it's not only Siglent having this attitude towards customers, but the other 'usual suspect companies' as well.
With Owon I think I just got _very_ lucky once when they actually responded to my emails and send me a firmware that actually fixed some issue I had with their cheap xdm2041, but I hear other stories about the same company from other people.
Conclusion: Reasonable to nice products, but only when they keep working.
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I'm still waiting for a follow-up response from Siglent.
I have to say, though, that it's only been two weeks, and I'm in no rush.
I'm also aware that the Siglent staff isn't going to drop everything just because I'm coming to them with my problem.
I don't mean to sugarcoat the situation, but sometimes you have to put things into perspective.
Because what happened...
A few owners are having problems with the upgrade.
A few out of how many... 1,000, 10,000, 100,000?
That, and the fact that you first have to figure out why these meters behave the way they do.
It’s not something you can just do on the fly, especially not when you’re also carrying other products.
As I said, I don’t want to sugarcoat this, and I can understand that people want a solution to their problems as quickly as possible.
But I wouldn’t be too quick to condemn Siglent over this.
I once had to wait almost half a year for a response from Lecroy—and not as a private individual, but in my capacity as test lab manager.
So please be patient a little longer.
On top of that, Mike’s SDM3065X behaves differently than, say, mine.
The one I got from Sailient immediately responded to the internal SD card recovery—and did so countless times, because I had tried countless times to update to the latest firmware versions.
Mike's SDM3065X, on the other hand, doesn't seem to respond to this recovery mode.
That had puzzled me a bit yesterday, which is why I gave him the recovery mode that works perfectly on mine.
When you perform the internal recovery, the process gets a little “spooky.”
Connecting the jumper changes the boot order to the internal SD card.
In other words, you turn on the meter... and at first, you see nothing but a black screen.
But the recovery is underway...
And as far as I know, in that case, no success message appears on the screen; no, eventually the familiar splash screen appears, followed immediately by the familiar measurement screen.
Then you turn off the meter and disconnect the internal jumper so that the meter doesn't boot from the SD card again the next time it starts up.
So far, so good, but that apparently didn't work for Mike.
That's interesting because my SDM3065X and Mike's SDM3065X aren't that far apart in terms of age.
The serial number includes the model, the circuit board revision, the bill of materials revision, the quarter of manufacture, and, of course, the year of manufacture.
Mine was manufactured in the summer of 2019, and Mike's in the winter of 2019.
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Given the issues seem to be discussed as far back as at least March, I don't think anyone has been "too quick".
I know I've jumped in and promoted that folks should be able to get firmware updates and use their systems and got what appears to me to be attacked for doing so.
I don't understand why they wouldn't have a rack of these in the QA lab for regression testing. It's pretty common practice on shipping models that haven't reached EOL. We even have the prior generation most of the time. But that's because we have to support customer migrations forward and the staff need to be able to test and validate that path.
Based on Siglent's public 10k filings, between 5-20k DMMs per year globaly. Its speculation as they don't break it out completely but based on their market segment, the total units sold per year by the whole segment and the other public data that I could pull for lots of other OEMs.
There's a surprising amount data to mine there. I suspect if someone spent the time on it the range could be narrowed to within a couple thousand units.
That said, also from my experience, equipment put on racks and into production rarely get firmware updates unless theres a reason. QA validates the gear on the revisions and the calibrations are tied to them. Nobody jumps into that nightmare unless there's a problem. So the likely customers are the small number owners with more of those being small biz or hobbiest. I suspect Hobbiest are a substantial number of their market given they have often carried a higher value prop than most in their market segment.
I can't fathom why they haven't been actively trying to jump in and have this resolved rapidly as it would avoid the indexing of this thread in google searches and so on. :-//
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Does anyone have an SDS3065X that has the microSD Card Holder absent like ours? It's on the 2nd PCB in the back slightly off center to the right (when facing the DMM front)?
Best
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SDY8.007.075F
DMMD-161000
I can only show you a further picture of a mainboard with the same printing on it like "yours = mawyatt", "Salient666 => Martin72" and finally "Tony Albus" as a third candidate, however, with the card reader already soldered in. He is the only one with a SDM3065X-SC. This picture is out of his youtube video, where he installed the whole "Scanner Card" stuff...
The interesting thing is, that only the date code of the capacitors in front of the place of the card reader, maybe show a better hint of the probably "real" production date, considering the fact, that I only had these poor quality pictures with all different angles and sizes to observe...
When I understand the date code the right way...
7D = 2017, 4th week (Tony Albus)
J8 = 2018, 10th week (Salient666 => Martin72)
H9 = 2019, 9th week (mawyatt)
...you have - from the date code of the caps - the newest unit, as long as I have read and interpreted anything correctly.
I don't know the date, when "Siglent" published the FW with the USB recovery, but perhaps they thought, that they could save some production costs per unit and gave up, soldering the card reader into it as the USB recovery was already planned, in the pipeline or even published...?!
Therefore, it would be interesting to see, if also the newer units are also missing the card reader, which would underline the idea of saving production costs, due to the possibility of the USB recovery...
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..................
I don't know the date, when "Siglent" published the FW with the USB recovery, but perhaps they thought, that they could save some production costs per unit and gave up, soldering the card reader into it as the USB recovery was already planned, in the pipeline or even published...?!
Therefore, it would be interesting to see, if also the newer units are also missing the card reader, which would underline the idea of saving production costs, due to the possibility of the USB recovery...
AFAIK the Digital PCB is the same in all SDM3k models and I can confirm a late model SDM3055 Digital PCB is also without the uSD card holder.
AFAIK the uSD card holder has been phased out in late production units.....
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What a mess...
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AFAIK the uSD card holder has been phased out in late production units.....
While siglent is very aware of these issues and deliberately giving customers less chance to fix it to save a few cents… Unbelievable.
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AFAIK the uSD card holder has been phased out in late production units.....
While siglent is very aware of these issues and deliberately giving customers less chance to fix it to save a few cents… Unbelievable.
No I don't believe that is the case.
Boot problems have been around for a good while and later FW versions seemed to get on top of it due to the new memory type where USB recovery was all that was needed.
But the change to V3.02.**** FW created another issue that wasn't properly tested (IMO) so without a uSD card slot we all got screwed some.
There was never a proper upgrade path for SDM3065X listed for owners to get safely to V3.02.**** whereas SDM3055 owners didn't suffer the same issues.
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Dears, I have observed the following during earlier SD-card recovery of my SDM3055 (not 3065X!).
When the SD-card recovery appeared not doing anything on my SDM3055, I re-seated the SD-card plus jumper and tried a second time and now it worked.
Not necessarily a Siglent fault, could also be due to dirty contacts on my SD-card or jumper. I think this happened twice to me, so it is worth a try.
Maybe Mike has already tried this with his SDM3065X, nevertheless I wanted to share my observation.
Martin
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Dears, I have observed the following during earlier SD-card recovery of my SDM3055 (not 3065X!).
When the SD-card recovery appeared not doing anything on my SDM3055, I re-seated the SD-card plus jumper and tried a second time and now it worked.
Not necessarily a Siglent fault, could also be due to dirty contacts on my SD-card or jumper. I think this happened twice to me, so it is worth a try.
Maybe Mike has already tried this with his SDM3065X, nevertheless I wanted to share my observation.
Martin
We thought that be the case as it seemed to ignore the SD card boot and misbehaved the same wether the card and jumper were used or not (continuously displaying Upgrade Succeeded). We installed (soldered) the 2 pin header and micoSD Holder ourselves. We even used different header jumpers and changed the micrSD Holder 3 times thinking maybe this might help, no luck.
As a last attempt we heat shielded the adjacent components and air reflowed another microSD holder (3rd attempt), same result |O
Best
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I just opened the SDM3055 that I am working on. It is different from others I have seen. Mine was made in 2014. The board has an SD card slot but does not have a place for a jumper that I can see.
I got a message back from Siglent and they just sent me the same USB recovery software that I already tried several times. I asked for the SD card software again and am waiting to see what happens. Anybody got an idea where to put the jumper if I ever get the SD software?
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We thought that be the case as it seemed to ignore the SD card boot and misbehaved the same wether the card and jumper were used or not (continuously displaying Upgrade Succeeded). We installed (soldered) the 2 pin header and micoSD Holder ourselves. We even used different header jumpers and changed the micrSD Holder 3 times thinking maybe this might help, no luck.
Did you remove the USB stick when trying the SD-card recovery? A USB stick with a USB recovery package might interfere with the SD-card recovery. When I did the SD-card recovery on my SDM3055 there was no Upgrade Succeeded on the screen.
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This, see also my last post.
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I just opened the SDM3055 that I am working on. It is different from others I have seen. Mine was made in 2014. The board has an SD card slot but does not have a place for a jumper that I can see.
I got a message back from Siglent and they just sent me the same USB recovery software that I already tried several times. I asked for the SD card software again and am waiting to see what happens. Anybody got an idea where to put the jumper if I ever get the SD software?
According to the Siglent instruction PDF for the SDM3055 SD-card recovery, for digital board version older than SDY8.007.075E this jumper does not exist and is not needed.
Your board version appears to belong to this category.
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We thought that be the case as it seemed to ignore the SD card boot and misbehaved the same wether the card and jumper were used or not (continuously displaying Upgrade Succeeded). We installed (soldered) the 2 pin header and micoSD Holder ourselves. We even used different header jumpers and changed the micrSD Holder 3 times thinking maybe this might help, no luck.
Did you remove the USB stick when trying the SD-card recovery? A USB stick with a USB recovery package might interfere with the SD-card recovery. When I did the SD-card recovery on my SDM3055 there was no Upgrade Succeeded on the screen.
No USB stick was installed.
Best
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My unit:
- SDM3065X
- bought by welectron at the beginning of 2025
- shipped with pre-installed FW 3.02.01.13
- I usually reset any device to default, before I do an upgrade, but I did not do this special "security erase"
- fortunately I had no problem to upgrade to FW 3.02.01.15R2
- SDY8.007.431A - DMMD-221200
Since I was just lucky because of the pre-installed FW 3.02.XX.XX and as I could have also been affected by this "confusing situation" as well, I was finally too curious and risked a look into my unit - and as already suspected, there is no card reader anymore:
(https://imghoster.de/images/2026/08/24/there-is-no-card-reader-any-more.md.png) (https://imghoster.de/image/MOtLZ)
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Gentlemen,
The instrument is by no mean of my design but I'm sorry for your bad experience with it. Some though.
First, a couple of obvious things to provide the context. In current processor SoCs, the boot strapping is a complex process. It starts with a small initial boot loader routine, that is located in the boot ROM inside the SoC. The routine first performs a bare minimum system initialization, then decides which is the source of the next routine to load and start (NAND Flash ROM, MMC/SD device, SPI port, Ethernet, etc.). To make the decision, it checks the current state of known GPIO ports (strap presence). So if the SD card in the Siglent design is for selection by the boot ROM, then the SoC is most likely fine since the boot ROM is the same in every SoC of that type. It's located deep inside the SoC and can't be tampered by Siglent (I can't imagine someone is making a SoC specifically tailored for Siglent, unless they're buying a cheap rejects). If so, the card detection problem is likely caused by a broken electrical contact between the GPIO port and the card presence switch (that can be either integrated in the card cage or a dedicated entity, like jumper, depending on the BOM).
To check that, apply some external DC voltage to the open switch. Use a serial resistor, high enough to don't damage the port. Start with 0 V and carefully increase the voltage. If the contact is not broken, sooner or later a ESD protection diode of the port in the SoC will became open, and you'll notice a clamping effect. If there is no clamping and the voltage can be easily raised up to 10-15 V, then the contact is definitely broken. Try this also using a negative voltage, or even a curve tracing accessory for oscilloscope, if you like automation.
If the contact is broken indeed, the simplest countermeasure seems to take the board out of the case and firmly press the SoC to the PCB surface with a wooden hammer handle (or something like that) during the boot time, with a distant hope the pressure will close the gap temporarily, and the card will be detected. Before doing that, it'll make sense to identify the position of the GPIO port in the BGA ball matrix, to apply the pressure exactly to that area.
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I am not getting anywhere with Siglent to fix my SDM3055. They told me this:
"Hi,
Sorry,this unit was manufactured in 2015 and does not support any recovery file.
Best regards,"
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I just got this:
"Hi,
This unit is old, even the SD card cannot restore it. Replacing the mainboard is the only solution.
Best regards,"
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We thought that be the case as it seemed to ignore the SD card boot and misbehaved the same wether the card and jumper were used or not (continuously displaying Upgrade Succeeded). We installed (soldered) the 2 pin header and micoSD Holder ourselves. We even used different header jumpers and changed the micrSD Holder 3 times thinking maybe this might help, no luck.
Did you remove the USB stick when trying the SD-card recovery? A USB stick with a USB recovery package might interfere with the SD-card recovery. When I did the SD-card recovery on my SDM3055 there was no Upgrade Succeeded on the screen.
No USB stick was installed.
Best
Update!!
Just before giving up and reassembling the meter, we decided to give another attempt. Recovery worked!!!
Details later tomorrow, too tired after all this, completely burned out!!
Best
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I just got this:
"Hi,
This unit is old, even the SD card cannot restore it. Replacing the mainboard is the only solution.
Best regards,"
Wow! Units so old that the only choice is to replace the mainboard.
Has anyone seen another revision of the hardware reported on these?
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I just got this:
"Hi,
This unit is old, even the SD card cannot restore it. Replacing the mainboard is the only solution.
Best regards,"
It can but calibration will be lost.
Who is telling you this ?
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Wow! Units so old that the only choice is to replace the mainboard.
Just in case the digital mainboard needs to be replaced sometime in the future, it will be useful to have a good backup the calibration data of your DMM while it is still working.
I would expect that the calibration data are specific to the components on the analog board and could be restored later on to the replaced new digital mainboard.
See EEVBLOG for saving/restoring the calibration data:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3055-stuck-on-boot-screen/msg6037663/#msg6037663 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3055-stuck-on-boot-screen/msg6037663/#msg6037663)
This requires telnet access to the DMM, which my SDM3055 allows (but not my SDM3065X - could be firmware-version related). I understand there exist some tricks to force telnet access to a DMM, but I cannot find the forum post right now.
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not sure having the backup would help, since electronics and other parts have not aged the same etc ... would be somewhat useless ? but better than nothing ?
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Wow! Units so old that the only choice is to replace the mainboard.
Just in case the digital mainboard needs to be replaced sometime in the future, it will be useful to have a good backup the calibration data of your DMM while it is still working.
I would expect that the calibration data are specific to the components on the analog board and could be restored later on to the replaced new digital mainboard.
See EEVBLOG for saving/restoring the calibration data:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3055-stuck-on-boot-screen/msg6037663/#msg6037663 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3055-stuck-on-boot-screen/msg6037663/#msg6037663)
This requires telnet access to the DMM, which my SDM3055 allows (but not my SDM3065X - could be firmware-version related). I understand there exist some tricks to force telnet access to a DMM, but I cannot find the forum post right now.
FYI
SDM3055 calibration data was not stored in a safe folder in early models however when USB recovery was made possible with V1.01.01.19 firmware calibration was also saved in a safe folder to allow for uSD card recovery if it was ever needed.
Many lessons were learnt with early SDM3055 for the other 2 later SDM3k models to not suffer the same issues.
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not sure having the backup would help, since electronics and other parts have not aged the same etc ... would be somewhat useless ? but better than nothing ?
The Siglent SDM30xx have separate analog (measurement) and digital (processor) boards (I don't know about the SDM40xx series). We are talking about possible replacement of the digital board only while keeping the (probably more expensive) original analog board.
The calibration backup would certainly not help in case the analog board needed to be replaced. Yes, of course the analog board does have components which have manufacturing tolerances and have some drift with aging. But any aging of the digital board components (e.g. blocking capacitors, pull-up resistors, opto couplers) should have no impact on the calibration.
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There are pictures of the SDM4065 and they also have separate analog and digital part. The analog part looks very similar (though some difference in the isolation and likely not interchangible) to the SDM3065.
If nothing else help, a complete exchange of the digital board could indeed be an option for the SDM3065 - not sure if it would be worth it for the cheaper 3055.
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There are pictures of the SDM4065 and they also have separate analog and digital part. The analog part looks very similar (though some difference in the isolation and likely not interchangible) to the SDM3065.
If nothing else help, a complete exchange of the digital board could indeed be an option for the SDM3065 - not sure if it would be worth it for the cheaper 3055.
The Digital PCB contains the original calibration and the SN#.
When a replacement Digital PCB is ordered, the original new calibration is loaded along with the SN#.....for all SDM3k models.
SDM4k models have touch screen and a webserver and therefore may have a different Digital PCB to support the touch display.
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We thought that be the case as it seemed to ignore the SD card boot and misbehaved the same wether the card and jumper were used or not (continuously displaying Upgrade Succeeded). We installed (soldered) the 2 pin header and micoSD Holder ourselves. We even used different header jumpers and changed the micrSD Holder 3 times thinking maybe this might help, no luck.
Did you remove the USB stick when trying the SD-card recovery? A USB stick with a USB recovery package might interfere with the SD-card recovery. When I did the SD-card recovery on my SDM3055 there was no Upgrade Succeeded on the screen.
No USB stick was installed.
Best
Update!!
Just before giving up and reassembling the meter, we decided to give another attempt. Recovery worked!!!
Details later tomorrow, too tired after all this, completely burned out!!
Best
As a note we are pretty good at dealing with SMD devices and soldering such, the microSD holder was somewhat difficult to install altho we felt we had a good install. Even then we did replace and resolder the holder 3 different times using 3 new holders, and even used a hot air heat gun with narrow tip to reflow the holder (heat shielded local components).
As a last resort before reassembling we decided to attempt a touch up of the holder pins using a new very narrow soldering iron tip. Since this was a last attempt before going back to Siglent NA, we weren't shy about applying heat to the small holder pins. The pins looked good solder-wise under magnification before and after the soldering touchup. Still this didn't work!!
We started measuring the pins with an Ω meter and noted holder pin 9 would behave as expected (shorted to ground with SD card inserted), and ground pin was at ground. The other pins shows some resistance to ground, so suspected they were properly connected. However the Vdd pin was intermittent to a local decoupling cap (assumed as Vdd). Would change with pressure but not like one would expect that pressure would "make" the contact, sometimes it would and other times it would open the Vdd connection. Suspecting a poor solder joint we carefully resoldered the pin again, however this didn't help, same result!!
Frustration was setting in and we decided to give up and as a last attempt we decided another reboot cycle, same result!! So we just pushed the holder pins with our thumb and reapplied power and quickly noted the screen remained blank ( a good sign) so kept our thumb on the holder pins and DMM booted up with a measurement screen :-+
The only thing we can surmise from the long painful ordeal is that the PCB under/near the microSD holder has an intermittent Vdd via. We didn't measure Vdd with power because is was late and we would need to prepare a insulated sleeve for the needle probe because of the possibility of shorting to the close by RJ45 ground shield case (and getting dizzy from all this), so just safely reassembled everything and let in run for awhile measuring a 10V ref while we would get a beer, but were too tired for even a beer at this point!!!
The SDM is showing 3.01.01.06R1 and plan is let it run today and attempt a firmware update later when we are more alert!!
Anyway, this SDM3065X puppy is back from the bricked dead after a long painful exhausting ordeal :-+
Best
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I got this message is directly from Siglent HQ - service@siglent.com. They didn't give a name. I also told them that I have a newer board from an SDG that I could use. It is exactly the same board used in the newer SDM3055. I got back the exact same answer that only a replacement board will work.
|O
I don't see how it is possible that the SD card route won't work. If someone has a copy of the SDM3055 micro SD software, could you send me a PM?
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@mawyatt
From your description of the fault, it seems to me that the solution to a permanent fix in this case would simply be to effect a "bodge wire" repair. ;)
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@mawyatt
From your description of the fault, it seems to me that the solution to a permanent fix in this case would simply be to effect a "bodge wire" repair. ;)
Yes that would be the solution. However, if things behave as expected we won't need to reopen the DMM and perform the PCB "surgery" as the microSD holder isn't required for future upgrades as they are all "apparently" from the USB stick.
We'll know soon enough tho, as we'll be USB upgrading from the recovery installed firmware version mentioned.
Best
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i have the 3065x-sc do they suffers bootable problems ?
brand new few weeks ago
Siglent doesnot list that fw version ?
hw 02-02-00-05-00
fw 3.02.01.13
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i have the 3065x-sc do they suffers bootable problems ?
brand new few weeks ago
Siglent doesnot list that fw version ?
hw 02-02-00-05-00
fw 3.02.01.13
The boards are the same inside. But yours is already with a 3.02.xx version LATER than the .12R2 so I don't think you will have issues.
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i have the 3065x-sc do they suffers bootable problems ?
brand new few weeks ago
Siglent does not list that fw version ?
hw 02-02-00-05-00
fw 3.02.01.13
Yes, it's been pulled until all the problems have been sorted.
You shouldn't have any issues.
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In our case we had used the flawed firmware update that causes all the issues others were also experiencing. The recovery package from Siglent required formatting a microSD card with FAT32, copying a few supplied recovery files to the card and inserting the card in the holder on the rear "digital" PCB. Then shorting jumper J16 and powering the DMM on.
We didn't have the microSD card holder installed on the OEM rear "digital" PCB, it was blank. This required removing the PCB and carefully soldering a microSD card holder on the PCB. The location made it difficult so at first couple attempts were hand soldering, after a few failed reboot attempts, removed the holder and replaced with another. After a few more failed reboots, then shielding local components and used a hot air gun to reflow another holder. This didn't work either, so 3 holder replacements and no luck!!
All this led to the possible discovery of an intermittent via under or near the SD holder, and with thumb pressure applied we were able to get thru the recovery reboot!! So our case was partially brutal, from the flawed firmware, installing the SD holder (multiple times) and eventually the intermittent via discovery.
We can firmly blame Siglent for the flawed firmware update (which Siglent has removed), not installing the SD holder, however the intermitted PCB via might be due to our multiple working, soldering and disassemblies/reassemblies of the PCB. The PCB was handled carefully and the SD holder install, removal and reinstall were carefully done, but that's a lot of cycle iterations (probably well over 10 PCB removals and reinstalls). So not going to blame Siglent for this PCB via issue, however if they hadn't released the faulty firmware or had populated our PCB with the SD holder life would have been a lot easier on our end |O
Anyway, now we'll venture into updating the firmware when we get enough courage to attempt such :-\
Best
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Stick with the 3.01.xx branch, and follow the fw notes for any required sequencing. You should be fine if you avoid the 3.02.xx stuff.
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Yeah I just want to get this SDM3065X back to where it was before all this |O
Best
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Has anyone seen this sort of behavior using the Display Mode?
This setup is with a 10V reference source common to both the SDM3065X and the DMM6500, and both showing all values from start. Note the SDM display!!!
This is with firmware version 3.01.01.06R1 from the uSD card recovery.
Probably should upgrade the firmware now!!
Best
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This is indeed a very old firmware. I would upgrade it to the latest available 3.01.01 (which should be 3.01.01.12R1.
It may not be available for download so here it is attached.
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At least you have still some choice, till the forbidden FW 3.02.XX.XX:
(https://imghoster.de/images/2026/08/26/main-FW-versions-4-SDM3065X.png)
Some did the upgrade one after the other, other skipped several versions; considering the red line of this thread, it is probably better not to skip a version, I guess!
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We're staying out of the "Danger Zone", leaving that to the "Top Guns"!!
Firmware cautiously updated to 3.01.01.10, and letting the DMM run for awhile.
So far no aberrations in the Trend Display as before :-+
Update: After 1hr no aberrations in Trent Display!!
Best
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Hi,
The folks at Siglent couldn't reproduce the behavior of my 3065X, so they asked me if I had erased the memory before upgrading to version 3.02.01.R12; if not, the upgrade would fail because the update file is too large and the memory might not be big enough to accommodate it.
If they meant a “secure erase,” then I had done that as well.
Unless my meter has a bug and the command doesn't clear the memory. :P ;)
Either way, I'm still in touch with them.
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I guess, that "Tony Albus" has already sold his SDM3065X-SC, at least in his latest videos it is gone... ^-^
However, I would love to hear, whether this unit was successfully upgraded to FW 3.02.XX.XX, as this was probably the oldest unit of all three digital boards with the same version number...
So, if anybody is able to get some information, maybe it helps to narrow down the "problem" a little bit further?!
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I guess, that "Tony Albus" has already sold his SDM3065X-SC, at least in his latest videos it is gone... ^-^
Have a look at my for sale and be surprised :)
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I think Martin72 is the only one left right now with an instrument in distress? Anyone else?
I'm happy to hear progress is being made.
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I think Martin72 is the only one left right now with an instrument in distress? Anyone else?
I'm happy to hear progress is being made.
No, upgrading to V3.02.**** FW is still an issue.
If a V3.02.**** install attempt caused the problem in the first instance we need wait for Siglent to provide a solution.
Meanwhile installing up to V3.01.01.10 is where one needs stop until we have that solution.
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I think Martin72 is the only one left right now with an instrument in distress? Anyone else?
I'm happy to hear progress is being made.
No, upgrading to V3.02.**** FW is still an issue.
If a V3.02.**** install attempt caused the problem in the first instance we need wait for Siglent to provide a solution.
Meanwhile installing up to V3.01.01.10 is where one needs stop until we have that solution.
I gotcha, I agree. I was mainly talking about people that have bricked instruments. I think most are back online. At least here in the eevBlog community.
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@mawyatt
rusoaie has already posted a successful route/recipe to getting past the V3.01.01.12R1 roadblock here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg6320214/#msg6320214 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg6320214/#msg6320214)
which is this:-
Prerequisites: SDM3065x, Hardware 02-02-00-05-00, Firmware V3.01.01.12R1
1. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.01.01.10 -> Select -> Update (this is actually a downgrade)
2. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Security Erase -> Yes
3. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Set To Defaults
4. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.02.01.12R1 -> Select -> Update
5. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.02.01.15R2 -> Select -> Update
I followed those instructions to the letter and finally updated to V3.02.01.15R2 which previously had failed benignly when I'd attempted to update directly from my previous upgrade to V3.01.01.12R1 I'd done a couple of years earlier.
Since you've already completed step 1 you should, on the face of it, be able to complete the rest of the process (unless I've overlooked some vital difference between our circumstances).
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I got a 3065X-SC now here temporarily (selling for a friend), and it's on 3.01.01.12R1.
There is NO WAY I am going to attempt to upgrade it to a 3.02 version! :)
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rusoaie has already posted a successful route/recipe to getting past the V3.01.01.12R1 roadblock here:
That's not universal. It only works for specific variants.
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I think Martin72 is the only one left right now with an instrument in distress? Anyone else?
I'm happy to hear progress is being made.
No, mine is working again.
SD Recovery brought it back to life.
What remains to be resolved is the “incompatibility” with newer firmware versions.
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@mawyatt
rusoaie has already posted a successful route/recipe to getting past the V3.01.01.12R1 roadblock here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg6320214/#msg6320214 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg6320214/#msg6320214)
which is this:-
Prerequisites: SDM3065x, Hardware 02-02-00-05-00, Firmware V3.01.01.12R1
1. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.01.01.10 -> Select -> Update (this is actually a downgrade)
2. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Security Erase -> Yes
3. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Set To Defaults
4. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.02.01.12R1 -> Select -> Update
5. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.02.01.15R2 -> Select -> Update
I followed those instructions to the letter and finally updated to V3.02.01.15R2 which previously had failed benignly when I'd attempted to update directly from my previous upgrade to V3.01.01.12R1 I'd done a couple of years earlier.
Since you've already completed step 1 you should, on the face of it, be able to complete the rest of the process (unless I've overlooked some vital difference between our circumstances).
That's well known, but it didn't work here.
If it worked for you—for whatever reason you had to downgrade first—I'd like to have the serial number of your meter and, ideally, the revision number of your digital board.
Feel free to send it via PM.
The goal is to gather information so we can narrow down the affected device series.
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@mawyatt
rusoaie has already posted a successful route/recipe to getting past the V3.01.01.12R1 roadblock here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg6320214/#msg6320214 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg6320214/#msg6320214)
which is this:-
Prerequisites: SDM3065x, Hardware 02-02-00-05-00, Firmware V3.01.01.12R1
1. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.01.01.10 -> Select -> Update (this is actually a downgrade)
2. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Security Erase -> Yes
3. Utility -> Store/Recall -> Set To Defaults
4. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.02.01.12R1 -> Select -> Update
5. Utility -> System Setup -> Firmware Update -> V3.02.01.15R2 -> Select -> Update
I followed those instructions to the letter and finally updated to V3.02.01.15R2 which previously had failed benignly when I'd attempted to update directly from my previous upgrade to V3.01.01.12R1 I'd done a couple of years earlier.
Since you've already completed step 1 you should, on the face of it, be able to complete the rest of the process (unless I've overlooked some vital difference between our circumstances).
Thanks but staying away from any of V3.02 versions at the moment!!
Best
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I'd wait and see for now, too.
It didn't work for me, and since Mike's meter is also from 2019, it might be the same for him.
But it worked for Johnny's meter, so:
Feel free to send it via PM.
He did just that—thanks for that. :-+
I can reveal the year it was built here—unsurprisingly, it’s newer than mine or Mike’s.
Namely, 2021.
Now, that’s just a matter of a meter, but I can’t shake the feeling that whether the upgrade goes through without a hitch, via workarounds as described, or not at all—as was the case with me—has to do with the year it was released.
Because my first 3065X was from 2023 and had absolutely no problems.
2019: no, 2021: had some problems but works, 2023: no problems.
That's the current situation.
Siglent is aware of the situation, and I'm curious to see if there will be a solution—and what kind it will be.
I'll stay on top of it.
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That unit must have been shipped out to Telonic Instruments Ltd in the UK fresh off the production line since I'd ordered it, according to the invoice, early October 2021.
As soon as it arrived 24 hours after placing the order, I set it up and left it powered up for the next couple of months to get the initial ageing of its voltage reference done and dusted.
Roughly a year later, when I'd bolted a well aged µA7805 onto the LPRO 101's base plate heat spreader to power the critical 5K calibration pot and the ADS1115 and thermistor and a 4.8K centre tapped potential divider (total of <3mA load) on account it was so stable and noise free (sufficiently so that the oversampling trick with the Arduino nano's built in ADC failed to provide the extra bits of resolution when I used it to power the ref pin and the thermistor cct and was obliged to revert to the noisier 3.3v rail instead!!!), I'd noticed that the meter would always show the same 4.97877 volt reading every time (give or take 10µV) whilst I was still running the rubidium base plate at 36.050 deg C during the next year or so. This dropped by 550µV after raising the set temperature to 37.0500 deg C.
Since the regulator is held to within 10mK of the set temperature and its internal dissipation more or less a fixed 50mW, I could only assume that the meter was consistently stable. A few months ago, I noticed that my fabulously stable and low noise µA7805 was producing lower voltage readings week by week and then day by day and started wondering whether it was a meter issue or the µA7805 starting to fail so I dug out my PDVS 2 Mini v2 to check the meter for the second time in the ten months since its purchase and got exactly the same 5.00014v reading. Checking the specifications and making the necessary calculations, I realised it was still comfortably within the 24 hour spec, let alone the i year spec!
In short, I'm totally blown away by the SDM3065X's performance (at least for my particular example of this model). Oh, and BTW, after trying a couple of other 5v regulators and then a pair of TL431s in series followed lastly be repurposing the AD584LH from a cheap ebay sourced voltage reference which had lain gathering dust due to its mediocre tempco, it finally occurred to me that the original problem had lain with a 3 pin header connection I'd used to connect the front panel calibration pot and the connections to the front panel stereo jack to monitor the hot end and the wiper connection voltages via 1K safety resistors. :palm:
The only upside to that saga being 1/ I now know the real culprit and 2/ I'm now seeing a relentless 5.00060v reading on the SDM3065X at a PLC setting of one cycle. Just occasionally witnessing the last digit being bumped up by 1 for a few seconds at a time. :)
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Good afternoon, gentlemen. For two years I did not turn on the 3065x and today, after turning it on, it hangs on the screensaver, does not load. I checked all the supply voltages and they are in tolerance. It worked fine before that, the firmware was ... 12R1. What do you advise, gentlemen?
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Good afternoon, gentlemen. For two years I did not turn on the 3065x and today, after turning it on, it hangs on the screensaver, does not load. I checked all the supply voltages and they are in tolerance. It worked fine before that, the firmware was ... 12R1. What do you advise, gentlemen?
See the last link in the 1st post for the USB recovery packages.
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The device came to life, thank you. Now the firmware version is 01.10. Should I reset the system to factory settings, and is it worth upgrading to the next version?
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The device came to life, thank you. Now the firmware version is 01.10. Should I reset the system to factory settings, and is it worth upgrading to the next version?
Good work. :clap:
At this time it is safe to update SDM3065X to V3.01.01.12R1
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The Defpom recently took on a SDM3045X repair for us.....the main fault being ~870 Ohms offset in Ohms mode.
Good methods narrowed it down to a very small area where a TO-92 was the culprit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM4bOQnxqE4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM4bOQnxqE4)
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With the restoration to version 01.10, the circuit integrity function stopped working correctly. It works after three seconds or may not work or rings all the time. I didn’t find firmware 3.01.01.12R1 on the official website. Maybe someone still has it, please share. Perhaps it will help get rid of glitches.
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Yeah, I cannot find it on the main sites either... it used to be there... why did Siglent remove it?
I would attach it but the maximum file size is 8MB... and the file is 10MB.
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Thanks to Salient666, he sent a link to firmware V3.01.01.12R1. Here I am sharing with you.
https://www.wavetable.nl/temp/SDM3065X_V3.01.01.12R1.zip (https://www.wavetable.nl/temp/SDM3065X_V3.01.01.12R1.zip)
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With the restoration to version 01.10, the circuit integrity function stopped working correctly. It works after three seconds or may not work or rings all the time. I didn’t find firmware 3.01.01.12R1 on the official website. Maybe someone still has it, please share. Perhaps it will help get rid of glitches.
PM sent.
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Yeah, I cannot find it on the main sites either... it used to be there... why did Siglent remove it?
I would attach it but the maximum file size is 8MB... and the file is 10MB.
V3.01.01.12R1 was the SDM3065X transition file to V3.02.01.**** FW....so they thought but the path was not always go, nogo but also sometimes returned a brick so it had to be pulled until all HW versions had been properly checked and a reliable, rock solid upgrade path is developed and proven.
We know V3.01.01.12R1 and earlier can be recovered via USB packages so we stay here until another upgrade path has been provided.
Martin72 has done a good dive into what is happening and which FW and HW is playing nice and Siglent have all this info to work through.
For now we can only hurry up and wait.