Author Topic: Siglent Bench DMMs SDM3065X, SDM3055 and SDM3045X  (Read 159105 times)

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Offline markone

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #175 on: March 01, 2016, 03:37:34 pm »
Despite having looked at several video review on YouTube and read most of posting in this 3ad is still unclear to me if the actual display refresh rate in slow mode with maximum precision settings is 1/s or 5/s.

In addition, for dual reading mode like DCV & DCI, is 1/s the max refresh rate regardless the settings ?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #176 on: March 01, 2016, 07:38:39 pm »
Despite having looked at several video review on YouTube and read most of posting in this 3ad is still unclear to me if the actual display refresh rate in slow mode with maximum precision settings is 1/s or 5/s.

In addition, for dual reading mode like DCV & DCI, is 1/s the max refresh rate regardless the settings ?
The display refresh rate was improved in a previous FW release after some criticism on reviews and ATM the trigger LED would seem to be flashing ~5/sec and the last significant digits appear to be updating at the same rate.(Slow refresh)

Dual readings remain the same; 1 range for 1s, then the other selected range for 1s, both of which are being updated at the user selected rate.
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Offline markone

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #177 on: March 01, 2016, 08:38:28 pm »
The display refresh rate was improved in a previous FW release after some criticism on reviews and ATM the trigger LED would seem to be flashing ~5/sec and the last significant digits appear to be updating at the same rate.(Slow refresh)

Dual readings remain the same; 1 range for 1s, then the other selected range for 1s, both of which are being updated at the user selected rate.

Many thanks,

five per seconds could be considered fair enough but dual readings sequencing does not fit my need, i'll have to check if something else in the same price league, like the GW GDM-8351, is able to provide simultaneous readings for DCV & DCI.
 

Offline nidlaX

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #178 on: March 01, 2016, 09:28:32 pm »
The display refresh rate was improved in a previous FW release after some criticism on reviews and ATM the trigger LED would seem to be flashing ~5/sec and the last significant digits appear to be updating at the same rate.(Slow refresh)

Dual readings remain the same; 1 range for 1s, then the other selected range for 1s, both of which are being updated at the user selected rate.

Many thanks,

five per seconds could be considered fair enough but dual readings sequencing does not fit my need, i'll have to check if something else in the same price league, like the GW GDM-8351, is able to provide simultaneous readings for DCV & DCI.
Regarding the GDM-8351:

"When the multimeter is used in dual measurement mode, both displays are updated from either a single measurement or from two separate measurements. If the primary and secondary measurement modes have the same range, rate and rely on the same fundamental measurement, then a single measurement is taken for both displays; such as ACV and frequency/period measurements. If the primary and secondary displays use different measurement functions, ranges or rates, then separate measurements will be taken for each display. For example, ACV and DCV measurements."

Interpret that how you will, but it sounds like you will be faced with similar scanning behavior.
 

Offline markone

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #179 on: March 01, 2016, 09:54:36 pm »
"When the multimeter is used in dual measurement mode, both displays are updated from either a single measurement or from two separate measurements. If the primary and secondary measurement modes have the same range, rate and rely on the same fundamental measurement, then a single measurement is taken for both displays; such as ACV and frequency/period measurements. If the primary and secondary displays use different measurement functions, ranges or rates, then separate measurements will be taken for each display. For example, ACV and DCV measurements."

Interpret that how you will, but it sounds like you will be faced with similar scanning behavior.

I read that user manual part several times but i have to admit i struggle to understand the meaning, especially if i consider this following text :

"After the secondary measurement function has been activated, the rate, range and measurement item can be edited for either the primary or secondary display. Note however, it is more practical to configure the first or second measurement items before activating dual measurement mode."

I'm looking for web review, but it would appear there are none.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #180 on: March 01, 2016, 09:57:26 pm »
It doesn't make sense to add an extra ADC and input stage for the dual measurement so I'm pretty sure all DMM will switch/scan between inputs (current or volt) for dual measurements.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #181 on: March 01, 2016, 10:11:34 pm »
"When the multimeter is used in dual measurement mode, both displays are updated from either a single measurement or from two separate measurements. If the primary and secondary measurement modes have the same range, rate and rely on the same fundamental measurement, then a single measurement is taken for both displays; such as ACV and frequency/period measurements. If the primary and secondary displays use different measurement functions, ranges or rates, then separate measurements will be taken for each display. For example, ACV and DCV measurements."

Interpret that how you will, but it sounds like you will be faced with similar scanning behavior.

I read that user manual part several times but i have to admit i struggle to understand the meaning, especially if i consider this following text :

"After the secondary measurement function has been activated, the rate, range and measurement item can be edited for either the primary or secondary display. Note however, it is more practical to configure the first or second measurement items before activating dual measurement mode."

I'm looking for web review, but it would appear there are none.
Sounds just like how the Siglent does it.

With the SDM3055, the secondary display/measurement in dual mode is much smaller than the primary measurement and selection of the primary measurement as the measurement of "most interest" is the way to get the most from the UI.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 10:17:57 pm by tautech »
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Offline markone

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #182 on: March 01, 2016, 10:39:31 pm »
It doesn't make sense to add an extra ADC and input stage for the dual measurement so I'm pretty sure all DMM will switch/scan between inputs (current or volt) for dual measurements.

I was not expecting a doubled ADC section but a sample&hold stage to allow at least DCV & DCI simultaneous sampling (with differed conversion, of course) to maintain measures phase, but it seems an exclusive land for power analyzer.

Of course two separate externally triggered DMM could be the solution but i'm trying to keep the budget within half a grand.

 

Offline nidlaX

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #183 on: March 01, 2016, 10:57:35 pm »
It doesn't make sense to add an extra ADC and input stage for the dual measurement so I'm pretty sure all DMM will switch/scan between inputs (current or volt) for dual measurements.

I was not expecting a doubled ADC section but a sample&hold stage to allow at least DCV & DCI simultaneous sampling (with differed conversion, of course) to maintain measures phase, but it seems an exclusive land for power analyzer.

Of course two separate externally triggered DMM could be the solution but i'm trying to keep the budget within half a grand.
Get a mooshimeter and upgrade the input stage? :popcorn:
 

Offline markone

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #184 on: March 02, 2016, 12:00:07 am »
Get a mooshimeter and upgrade the input stage? :popcorn:

Very nice toy, for US price and availability it would worth an assessment for hobby works, but now i'm looking for a certified instrument with USB/serial interface and prompt EU sourcing.

I will sure keep in account for some other task, many thanks for the tip.
 

 
 

Offline markone

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #185 on: March 06, 2016, 04:19:41 pm »
Hmmm, as I interpret Martin Lortons video when the filter is activated a capacitor is connected to the input terminals? Thus loading the measured voltage with a substantial capacitance? That sounds really crusty, I hope I got this wrong.

I have a couple of questions about this matter :

1) does the "impedance perturbance" apply also for 100mV & 1V DCV high imp. mode (10Gohm) ?
2) which is the actual input capacitance with the HW filter turned on ? 

@ 07:30
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #186 on: March 07, 2016, 04:21:45 am »
Hmmm, as I interpret Martin Lortons video when the filter is activated a capacitor is connected to the input terminals? Thus loading the measured voltage with a substantial capacitance? That sounds really crusty, I hope I got this wrong.

I have a couple of questions about this matter :

1) does the "impedance perturbance" apply also for 100mV & 1V DCV high imp. mode (10Gohm) ?
2) which is the actual input capacitance with the HW filter turned on ? 


1. In DCV the ranges available for 10 G Ohm input impedance are 200 mV and 2 V.
In either range the meter settling time is improved with fast sampling and the input filter on to ~2 sec or better. All sampling speeds have similar settling times with the filter on and the highest being slightly fastest.
Without filtering for these 10G input ranges, the last significant digit takes ~2 seconds to stabilise for the medium speed sampling whereas in fast sampling the last 2 significant digits take ~2 seconds to stabilise.

2. 1.1nF measured while in all the above mentioned ranges, filter on or off.
(Fluke 15B)

The display refresh rate was improved in a previous FW release after some criticism on reviews and ATM the trigger LED would seem to be flashing ~5/sec and the last significant digits appear to be updating at the same rate.(Slow refresh)

Dual readings remain the same; 1 range for 1s, then the other selected range for 1s, both of which are being updated at the user selected rate.

Many thanks,

five per seconds could be considered fair enough but dual readings sequencing does not fit my need, i'll have to check if something else in the same price league, like the GW GDM-8351, is able to provide simultaneous readings for DCV & DCI.
I know this is a few days old but I'm not sure if you understood my comments re the sampling update rate.
5/s is Slow mode
50/s is middle mode
150/s is Fast mode

All user definable for any range.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 04:27:40 am by tautech »
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Offline markone

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #187 on: March 07, 2016, 08:36:36 pm »
1.1nF measured while in all the above mentioned ranges, filter on or off.

I know this is a few days old but I'm not sure if you understood my comments re the sampling update rate.
5/s is Slow mode
50/s is middle mode
150/s is Fast mode

Hi Tautech,

thanks for the summary, your comments about sampling rate were received loud and clear.

In the mean time i looked for a multimeter (not a power analyzer) capable of DCV & DCI dual reading function without mechanical relay's input scanning, among the "low cost" ones i found the Hameg HMC8012, though not brilliant for AC performance and price point; the guy responsible for that activity is now dealing with R&S representative.

But i'm still on the market for a NEW bench DMM for personal use, but there are still two things that prevent me to buy the SDM3055 :

1)  input capacitance & impedance transient : 1.1nF seems pretty high but i'm mainly worried about what happens during the filter's insertion (as spotted by Martin @ 07:30 ), i still wonder if it happens also with low DCV ranges in HI Z mode, but in any case this is near to be a deal breaker for me.

2) actual screen's refresh rate : it seems quite far from declared numbers (that i assume to be valid for USB / LAN data exchange) even after the last FW update, at least judging on what i'm seeing on youtube; dunno if there is still room for improvements but i'm inclined to think that we will not see drastical changes.

I already have three handheld DMMs and from the incoming bench multimeter i expect / pretend :

1) variable ADC's precision / sampling rate (max sps >=100)
2) parameterizable ADC's samples filtering
3) fast actual screen update, at least on par with medium sampling rate
4) clear text and wide angle of view screen
4) high stability input impedance & HI-Z mode for DCV (>= 10Gohm)
5) external trigger input
6) PC interface
7) 4 wire resistance reading
8 ) decent VAC performance within 40-20000Hz Hz

To be honest i'm a bit biased toward old styled VFD display DMM's for text clarity, fast response and very wide angle of view, but at the same time i'm intrigued by features like trends chart and so on.

I cannot justify to myself a Keithley / Agilent ones for home dickering and there to much lemmons on used market to go in that way, this Siglent seems well equipped but some of the listed points are still not satisfied.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 07:29:21 pm by markone »
 

Offline kj7e

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #188 on: March 12, 2016, 03:15:08 pm »
^ For goodness sakes man, you are over analyzing this.  Its a darn fine meter for $400, accurate, fast enough for any home hobbyist (with the latest FW), and the display is really quite nice.  Your other option is to 2.5 times as much for a Keysight 3446x. 

The display refresh rate is plenty fast, faster than it looks on camera.  Martin is stuck on enabling the AC Filter, I never use it, not had a need for it.  IMO, the display is far easier to read then VFD or LED even.  You can read it easily from across the room at angels.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 03:24:27 pm by kj7e »
 
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Offline markone

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #189 on: March 13, 2016, 01:00:52 pm »
^ For goodness sakes man, you are over analyzing this.

LOL, it could be the case, but everyone here tends to behave in such way  ;)

IMHO rust inside, "last setup" bug and input filter on/off impedance transient are quite important issues to me, of course it all depends on what you do.

But VFD displays usually have superior readability against lcd panels, if the SDM3055 one is like the SDG2000X's screen (that i own) then i'm quite convinced about that.

Anyway, talking about cost, here in EU the average street price from authorized dealers is much higher, around 535 Euro VAT included (600USD).
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 01:09:24 pm by markone »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #190 on: March 15, 2016, 12:54:23 am »
^ For goodness sakes man, you are over analyzing this.

LOL, it could be the case, but everyone here tends to behave in such way  ;)

IMHO rust inside, "last setup" bug and input filter on/off impedance transient are quite important issues to me, of course it all depends on what you do.

But VFD displays usually have superior readability against lcd panels, if the SDM3055 one is like the SDG2000X's screen (that i own) then i'm quite convinced about that.

Anyway, talking about cost, here in EU the average street price from authorized dealers is much higher, around 535 Euro VAT included (600USD).
To address 2 points in your above reply, the display readability is as in the first image in this thread, not the shaded part but the brighter half and just as kj7e says.
Just to be perfectly clear.....they are plenty bright and very easy to read, even at considerable distances.
Sorry I can't compare it to the SDG2000X just yet, new stock is in transit ATM.

Input filter.
I suspect it is a software filter as there are no changes in input capacitance when it's engaged.

So that leaves one other worry for you, the effect of input capacitance on low voltage readings.
All I can do to attempt to answer this is use an AWG as a uV DC source while monitoring with other meters, one of my old AVO's should be sensitive enough for that.

When I have a mo I'll be back with an edit.
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Offline markone

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #191 on: March 15, 2016, 02:17:28 am »
I suspect it is a software filter as there are no changes in input capacitance when it's engaged.

Hi Tautech,

i too guess that we have a software filter engaged but if you look to Martin's video @ 08:30 https://youtu.be/ZRZgGPQZZkE?t=512, you can clearly see a fast input impedance drop below one Mohm followed by slow recovery to 10Meg, so something is alos happening at hardware level.

Do you hear a relay "click" when you cycle filter option ?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #192 on: March 15, 2016, 03:18:04 am »
I suspect it is a software filter as there are no changes in input capacitance when it's engaged.

Hi Tautech,

i too guess that we have a software filter engaged but if you look to Martin's video @ 08:30 https://youtu.be/ZRZgGPQZZkE?t=512, you can clearly see a fast input impedance drop below one Mohm followed by slow recovery to 10Meg, so something is alos happening at hardware level.

Do you hear a relay "click" when you cycle filter option ?
No.

Of course for 10M to 10G input impedance a relay selects a different divider network.

I don't have a PSU capable of less than 1mV supply although I could make a divider to get well down in the uV levels but at those levels I don't have further equipment for monitoring.
I'll have more of a play later.......
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Offline MiataMuc

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #193 on: March 23, 2016, 09:54:30 am »
Hi,

firmware version P01.16R2 is avaible at http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4630&tid=15

From the PDF:

1. Modify the UI
2. Fix the bug in trend chart. F
3. Modify the number of file system from 2 to 3 , and copy some configuration file to new location .This will reduce the chance of system crash.
 

Offline kj7e

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #194 on: March 23, 2016, 01:56:27 pm »
Hi,

firmware version P01.16R2 is avaible at http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4630&tid=15

From the PDF:

1. Modify the UI
2. Fix the bug in trend chart. F
3. Modify the number of file system from 2 to 3 , and copy some configuration file to new location .This will reduce the chance of system crash.

Nice, Ill try it out later today.
 

Offline kj7e

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #195 on: March 23, 2016, 04:39:24 pm »
Only had a few min to play with it so far.  They defiantly made UI changes, nice the OK button does something now.  Not sure I like the new display layout yet, looks like they wanted to address the similarity to the Keysight 3440x UI.  The light grey background is gone, improves contrast for sure, that's a plus. Slight changes to many of the menus and how the soft buttons work.  Trend Chart integration is much better.  The auto trigger may be a bit slower on the slow mode.  Not sure I like the large yellow highlighted selected mode indication or the yellow separation lines.  Cant say it looks like the Keysights anymore, that's for sure.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 10:08:02 pm by kj7e »
 

Offline Eric-H

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #196 on: March 24, 2016, 07:41:43 am »
Tried the new firmware 16R2. The trend chart is better but not great. It starts good but after a minute the sample rate drops. The attached picture is of a sine wave with a period of 100 s. The left side of the trend chart shows a nice sine curve, after that the sample interval is much longer.

Also I don't like the grey texts on the softkeys, seems like they are disabled.

Update:
The trend chart only works correctly in "all"-mode when the measuring speed is set to "slow". In "medium" and "fast" speed, the trend chart scrolls as in mode "recent" and loses the data older than 1 minute.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 06:04:54 pm by Eric-H »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #197 on: March 26, 2016, 08:06:35 am »
FW 16R2
There are no installation instructions.
There are 2 FW files to be installed:
Vp15R2-to-p16-transition.ADS to be installed first, system reports 15R3 after installation.
Reboot
Then install sdm305(V100R001B01D01P16R2).ADS, after which system will auto reboot.



First change noticed is the sightly different GUI, darker background resulting in better contrast and enhanced visibility.
Also slightly changed on-screen indication icon layout:



Edit
Screenshot added
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 10:33:46 am by tautech »
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Offline Eric-H

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #198 on: March 26, 2016, 10:23:40 am »
Here is another example of the trend graph in the 16R2 firmware. It displays an hour long log with so few datapoints the result is unusable. The input signal in this case was a triangle wave with a period of 15 minutes. The DMM measures every second so there is enough data available to draw a decent waveform.
I hope Siglent will have another look at the firmware and fixes this problem.
 

Offline Siglent

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Re: Siglent NEW Bench DMM SDM3055
« Reply #199 on: March 29, 2016, 10:07:50 am »
Here is another example of the trend graph in the 16R2 firmware. It displays an hour long log with so few datapoints the result is unusable. The input signal in this case was a triangle wave with a period of 15 minutes. The DMM measures every second so there is enough data available to draw a decent waveform.
I hope Siglent will have another look at the firmware and fixes this problem.
Dear Eric-H,
    Trend data shown in the screen fixed on the screen about four hundred pixels.
    SDM3055’s trend function show the user a simulation curve which in accordance with a certain algorithm . It saves the measured characteristic curve
    of the overall shape, but not the original curve reproduction.

     Thank you for support Siglent!
The Best Value in Electronic Test & Measurement
 


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