Was:Siglent new...

[2N3055]

Also what is the purpose of picture of FFT that you calculated on computer from some capture downloaded on the scope. That is NOT FFT from your Rigol, that is straight out lie, and a deliberate one.

can we have 10Mpts FFT out of Siglent DSO? lie or not lie?

By same rules, yes, you can have 14 Mpoints of data from Siglent into Labview and have all of these and then some:

https://zone.ni.com/reference/en-XX/help/371361J-01/TOC166.htm
https://zone.ni.com/reference/en-XX/help/371361J-01/TOC162.htm.

..

[nctnico]

We could argue  if it is better than small GW Instek GDS 1000B series, though....

Don't think so. Look at FFT and memory depth for starters. With the U series Siglent is doing exactly the same as other brands: come up with a cheaper but crippled device in order not to eat into their more expensive models.

[Fungus]

€359 wow ! 

nb. That's without sales tax, which runs to about 20% in most of Europe.

[rf-loop]

was...

[Fungus]

In Germany, 16% (temporarily reduced afaik until end of 2020)

ie. Reduced right up until the first stocks of this thing arrive. 

Batronix price including 16% VAT for Rigol DS1054Z is 365.40
My predict, Batronix 16% VAT price Sig SDS1104X-U is 416.44

That's what I predict, too.

(except that VAT will go back up at the end of the year so it will be 374 Euros vs. 427 Euros)

https://suw-steuerberatung.de/en/2020/06/07/temporary-reduction-of-german-vat-in-2020-and-its-implications-on-businesses-time-to-act-quickly/

I just bought my Micsig from Batronix so I got the good price.

[GTheis]

In Germany, 16% (temporarily reduced afaik until end of 2020)

ie. Reduced right up until the first stocks of this thing arrive. 

Batronix price including 16% VAT for Rigol DS1054Z is 365.40
My predict, Batronix 16% VAT price Sig SDS1104X-U is 416.44

That's what I predict, too.

(except that VAT will go back up at the end of the year so it will be 374 Euros vs. 427 Euros)

https://suw-steuerberatung.de/en/2020/06/07/temporary-reduction-of-german-vat-in-2020-and-its-implications-on-businesses-time-to-act-quickly/

I just bought my Micsig from Batronix so I got the good price.

Oh I just learnt that I've to buy stuff from Germany lol

[tautech]

Oh I just learnt that I've to buy stuff from Germany lol

Actually in the EU just take you pick of supplier:
https://www.siglenteu.com/how-to-buy/

[rf-loop]

was...

[evava]

I just bought my Micsig from Batronix so I got the good price.

Could we know which Micsig did you choose for yourself?

[Lowkus]

Is there a North American store that sells the SDS1104X-U, and if so are there any coupon codes available for it?

Originally I was planning to buy an SDS2104X+ but I am just getting started in electronics so the SDS1104X-U might be the more prudent first scope.

[2N3055]

I just bought my Micsig from Batronix so I got the good price.

Could we know which Micsig did you choose for yourself?

I got Micsig STO1104C Plus. Also from Batronix.. But for me VAT is no problem, company purchase..

[uski]

That new SDS1104X-U scope is awesome for schools and beginners
And even more advanced users for basic use.

Got my first scope when I was around 15 years told. It was a used TDS220. I wish it was something like this instead !
Beginners are lucky these days

This SDS1104X-U doesn't have MSO but 4 channels and serial decode, definitely enough to play with UARTs, SPI and I2C. USB port for screenshots, perfect for school project reports.

I totally see this in school benches all over the world !

[Fungus]

I just bought my Micsig from Batronix so I got the good price.

Could we know which Micsig did you choose for yourself?

I got the STO1104C - 100Mhz, 4 channels, knobs on the side.

I also got it from Batronix, they had a special offer for that model which meant it didn't cost much more for the knobs.

(The knobs aren't necessary BTW, I can see now that the 'scope will work perfectly without them)

I got the bag as well. The bag is very cool to have. 

[Fungus]

That new SDS1104X-U scope is awesome for schools and beginners
...
I totally see this in school benches all over the world !

I think the Micsig would be a far better choice, and only 100 Euros more.

The screen is much bigger/better and the whole thing is much more modern to use.

[2N3055]

That new SDS1104X-U scope is awesome for schools and beginners
...
I totally see this in school benches all over the world !

I think the Micsig would be a far better choice, and only 100 Euros more.

The screen is much bigger/better and the whole thing is much more modern to use.

Well, I don't agree with you (which is OK).
I said it before, MicSig doesn't have basic statistics on measurements. That is a HUGE problem if it is a primary scope.
I have other scopes, so not a problem. But statistics is very important.
That is my biggest complaint on Micsig STO1104C.

It serves me well as a portable carry around scope, and for just looking at the signals, but there are few things that need to be added before it would be great entry level primary scope.
Statistics is most important of them.

[uski]

That Micsig is interesting but has a smell of the horrible FNIRSI 1013D. Seems to be mostly sold on Banggood, Amazon and eBay... not a good sign.
If they want to penetrate the "western" market they should really work with some established distributors (looks like they are with Saelig, it's a good start)

There are three reasons I say this :
- These distributors are established and care about their reputation and will not sell crap (at least they try not to). So as customers, it is a guarantee of a certain minimum quality level.
- Good luck trying to get warranty/repair from something you bought on Banggood or even Amazon. After the return window, Amazon will simply tell you "go talk to the manufacturer".
- I doubt school are going to buy from Banggood
And we all know the added value of some distributors (Tautech ?)

Also, I think the major appeal of the SDS1104X-U is its price. I think it's a "race the prices to the bottom" scope, for people who don't need high end specs.
Think like audio stuff, learning how to use a scope, and some basic digital signal debugging (I2C, UART, ...). My first contact with a scope was in high school, we don't need 5Gsps there.

The Micsig seems to be $500, the Siglent $400. This 25% more matters when you are a student, or when you have to buy 20 to fill a lab.
I remember when $100 was a reasonably big deal to me... but I was already doing electronics and using my TDS200. I would have happily kept the $100 more + VAT and used it for something else.

If I had to choose now, I'd totally go to the SDS1104X-U without any second look for the reasons above (assuming I was in the target market obviously)

[Fungus]

Well, I don't agree with you (which is OK).
I said it before, MicSig doesn't have basic statistics on measurements. That is a HUGE problem if it is a primary scope.
I have other scopes, so not a problem. But statistics is very important.
That is my biggest complaint on Micsig STO1104C.

I though about this before I bought mine and figured that I'd never used statistics on my Rigol. Your mileage obviously varies.

In a school environment I'd say it's much more important to have everything very visible and easy to find, which the Micsig excels at.

Statistics is most important of them.

Note that Rigol does statistics much better than Siglents - even the DS1054Z can plot a graph of values over time. :-)

[Fungus]

That Micsig is interesting but has a smell of the horrible FNIRSI 1013D.

Don't be ridiculous. The only similarity is the shape. 

If you ever get to use a well designed touch-screen 'scope you'll be going back home to sell your Siglent.


Edit: As a cheap introductory oscilloscope for kids you could do a lot worse than a FNIRSI.

[Fungus]

The Micsig seems to be $500, the Siglent $400. This 25% more matters when you are a student, or when you have to buy 20 to fill a lab.

By that reasoning you should be buying the Rigol DS1054Z.

[nctnico]

That Micsig is interesting but has a smell of the horrible FNIRSI 1013D. Seems to be mostly sold on Banggood, Amazon and eBay... not a good sign.
If they want to penetrate the "western" market they should really work with some established distributors (looks like they are with Saelig, it's a good start)

You can buy MicSig scopes from various distributors but MicSig also sells directly to end users through Ebay and Aliexpress. I bought my TO1104 directly from MicSig.

There are three reasons I say this :
- These distributors are established and care about their reputation and will not sell crap (at least they try not to). So as customers, it is a guarantee of a certain minimum quality level.
- Good luck trying to get warranty/repair from something you bought on Banggood or even Amazon. After the return window, Amazon will simply tell you "go talk to the manufacturer".

Try to get Siglent North America to fix your scope if they forgot to install some capacitors. They simply won't and your praised distributors won't answer your calls either. The bigger problem you are describing is the lack of consumer protection in the USA. That is not a fault of a manufacturer but the choice of the people not to pay extra for service.

[uski]

Try to get Siglent North America to fix your scope if they forgot to install some capacitors. They simply won't and your praised distributors won't answer your calls either. The bigger problem you are describing is the lack of consumer protection in the USA. That is not a fault of a manufacturer but the choice of the people not to pay extra for service.

Can't speak about Siglent NA service, but this really has nothing to do with consumer protection laws.
In the US you can do a credit card chargeback relatively easily, which to my knowledge is much harder to do in Europe (it was harder to do when I lived there a few years ago, maybe it changed)

Buying from Banggood offers the same level of after sales service worldwide : NONE 
And for Amazon, their return policy is the equivalent of the 15-days universal return window in Europe

Anyway, I am personally really not comfortable with brands whose main distribution channel seems to be direct to consumer through Banggood and similar sites. I had my fair share of receiving crap and being offered "a discount".
I can deal with it when buying $1.5 ESP8266 modules, but not a $500 scope, that's above my risk tolerance.

But this is just me and my humble opinion. Happy for you if you are happy to buy a $500 scope from AliExpress/Banggood/eBay, I just can't do it.

[rf-loop]

was...

[Fungus]

But this is just me and my humble opinion. Happy for you if you are happy to buy a $500 scope from AliExpress/Banggood/eBay, I just can't do it.

I got mine from Batronix.

(They're much cheaper than anywhere else for this 'scope)

[Fungus]

By that reasoning you should be buying the Rigol DS1054Z.

Topic is  "Siglent new SDS1104X-U, 4 channel 100MHz, 1Gsa/s economy oscilloscope"

Yet here we are discussing Micsigs and FNIRSIs. 

PS: I'm just pointing out flaws in his logic. I think I see on in yours, too - you're not jumping all over people for mentioning Micsigs in a precious Siglent thread.

[Mechatrommer]

By that reasoning you should be buying the Rigol DS1054Z.

Topic is  "Siglent new SDS1104X-U, 4 channel 100MHz, 1Gsa/s economy oscilloscope"

Yet here we are discussing Micsigs and FNIRSIs. 

no! the topic now is "Was:Siglent new..." sigh. what happened friend (rf-loop)? tell me if Fungus hurt you.