Siglent New SDS800X HD First Bactch Unboxing And Tests And Teardown !

[rf-loop]

https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds800hd/

I think "Tax included" is a translation error in the column with the prices(had the page translated into english)
And even then the prices would be really, really humane...

With these consumer prices least I can, as citizen people, buy these using my Jingdong or Taobao.
Just tried buy SDS824X HD using  my Jingdong  but I stopped the purchase transaction without making the final 4772 RMB transfer (this price if I pay directly from BOC).

[PELL]

https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds800hd/

I think "Tax included" is a translation error in the column with the prices

That's actually correct. we usually add up the tax into the raw price and show the final you would pay.

[Martin72]

If these prices were to apply anywhere near as much to the rest of the world later on, especially in Europe.... goodness.

[Antonio90]

https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds800hd/

I think "Tax included" is a translation error in the column with the prices

That's actually correct. we usually add up the tax into the raw price and show the final you would pay.

Here it is often done in consumer oriented sales, and omitted on professional sales.
In any case, the rest of siglent.com Yuan prices indicate that european VAT is added on top of the displayed price, whether it already has taxes in China or not.

[rf-loop]

https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds800hd/

I think "Tax included" is a translation error in the column with the prices

That's actually correct. we usually add up the tax into the raw price and show the final you would pay.

Here it is often done in consumer oriented sales, and omitted on professional sales.
In any case, the rest of siglent.com Yuan prices indicate that european VAT is added on top of the displayed price, whether it already has taxes in China or not.

Well, first of all, VAT is much lower in China than even
VAT in Germany, which is also quite low.
Secondly, the fact that they can be brought here, stored and sold here creates quite a few expenses. Here you also have to invest in their warranty service. The fact that we have something in a carton box is not a product when we talk about measuring devices. The product contains a whole bunch of things other than what is packed in the box. Of course, those many other things are not visible to the buyer of the box and are almost always not actualized anyway. But that cost structure is still there in the background.

But ok, export from China, there is no China VAT, so Export prices are 0 VAT. But then they are sold here... here we add our VAT.
Price just can not be China Export price added with our VAT.  No one do free work and also there is not other kind of free lounges.
There need many peopels work and every worker want salary. Also there is many other cost.
If you stack all individual cost slices... over EXW or FOB ... Even every cubic meter in the warehouse has a price, and when you insure and guard them, it also has a price... in fact, everything has a price... even the pencil with which the warehouseman writes something on the post-it note has a price... and even the warehouse secretary's common cold vacation has its own price. Even warehouse cleaning work have its price.

Yes, all expenses are added to that price, absolutely everything, including the amount that is desired as a return on the capital invested in the activity. .and finally after whole all also local VAT... 

[Antonio90]

Yes, I do understand the fact that BOM, plus manufacturing and development, plus manufacturer's cut is only part of all the costs involved in putting a product to it's final use. Europe is also quite problematic in terms of compliance, warranty, import taxes etc. The cost includes, of course, support, broadly speaking.
I do value a lot buying from a seller that knows the product, is able to offer guidance, is transparent about delivery time and doesn't wash his hands if something goes wrong.
I'm quite willing to pay a premium on the price of something to get good support, and that is why I only buy dirt cheap stuff from places like Amazon and Aliexpress, and try to support good business models. Sadly, I have yet to find that here in Spain, will try again If/when the SDS1000X-HD is released.

I was making an observation about the usual equivalence in Siglent.com prices vs EU, but I was wrong, and it seems like they fluctuate a lot:

- SDS2104X-PLUS: € 1,467.07 (Current exchange rate YUAN-EURO) That's european price VAT included, more or less.
- SDS2104X-HD: €1,722.66 half the european price. This was unexpected.
- SDS1104X-E: € 674.75 200 bucks higher than EU MSRP. Also unexpected.
- SDS7000A H12. It seems to be free at Siglent.com, or maybe priceless 
- SDM3065X. € 1,058.13. €230 more expensive than EU.

There doesn't seems to be any kind of correlation between prices, except for the 2104 plus. The price could be anywhere, really, and if the ratio follows the 2000X-HD (Lecroy partnership terms?) we are in for a surprise. This gets more and more exciting 
Certainly, at €300 VAT included, i would buy a SDS800X-HD in a heartbeat. and maybe later a 1000X-HD, but there is no way that price is coming to the west. It would have to cost 200 bucks for the retailers.

[tszaboo]

- SDS2104X-HD: €1,722.66 half the european price. This was unexpected.

I don't find it surprising, the EU price is bad value for such a scope. Suddenly at 2K, with some upgrade leaks the scope would make a lot more sense. The only option for now is to vote with your wallet.

[Antonio90]

- SDS2104X-HD: €1,722.66 half the european price. This was unexpected.

I don't find it surprising, the EU price is bad value for such a scope. Suddenly at 2K, with some upgrade leaks the scope would make a lot more sense. The only option for now is to vote with your wallet.

Well yes, maybe I should have phrased it the other way around, I'm surprised it costs twice as much here, although I'm not so sure about the value being bad at all (assuming a few upgrades), as there really is not much competition going against it.

What surprises me more is the fact that between the 2000 plus and the HD there is only 300 bucks difference.
The HD is significantly better in many regards, and quite a bit more powerful.
I mean, the 2000X-HD could be well worth € 300 more than the 2000X-Plus even if it had an 8 bit ADC. I would be surprised if they sell many 2000X+ in China at all, unless the hack is not known there.

[Martin72]

I don't find it surprising, the EU price is bad value for such a scope.

It is actually still too cheap for what it has and can do.
It completely outperforms the RTB2000 series and in parts even the Waverunner 4000HD from Lecroy.
I don't know what yardstick you're using to say that the price is too high.

[DaneLaw]

I don't find it surprising, the EU price is bad value for such a scope.

It is actually still too cheap for what it has and can do.
It completely outperforms the RTB2000 series and in parts even the Waverunner 4000HD from Lecroy.
I don't know what yardstick you're using to say that the price is too high.

How is it too cheap?.. Do you want more mock-up on the EU price on this Siglent scope vs the rest of the world's prices, because what?
You like the brand, or you purchased that model, - it can also get to ludicris with EU region mockups, in regards to what the rest of the globe pays for the same unit, and that's a shame for the attractive units, and undermine all parties.

Thx for the region-compare Antonio90, always interesting to sense differences across regions, even though they will fluctuate quite a bit from other factors - like many items tends do these years.

[Martin72]

I had paid even more because that was the price.
And even for that, it was still a price breaker.
And the prices were the same as in China, the reductions have probably only happened recently.
I think it's pointless to get worked up about the fact that it's somehow (become) cheaper somewhere else.
Somewhere else is not here.
Batronix has a best price guarantee, tell them, in China the model is now available for 1000 less, you would like to have the same price.

[mawyatt]

We can also relate to this, or at least some reference to the performance value ratio.

When we decided on the Siglent SDS2000X+ a few years back after digesting all the various +- postings, vendor fan folks, and figuring out the folks that actually knew what they were taking about (very few unfortunately  ), this was our first out-of-pocket paid DSO/MSO. Before retiring and starting The Labs, our experience was with all the "A" brands, so baseline reference was high performance, high $ equipment.

Honestly we were stunned with this DSO/MSO for the $, and paid full price, with no regrets, even acquiring another at full $. Recall stating that it was worth 2~3X the MSRP, it was that good!! Then Siglent introduces the 12 bit version with added features and faster processing!! Then Rigol introduces the little 12 bit DHO800, and this is a nice little low cost entry level DSO with 12 bit ADCs and such, which we evaluated for a client to use with their product (they needed a small form factor with VEAS mount).

Now Siglent prepares the release of the new 12 bit SDS800X-HD that evidently (from tear down) has dual ADCs and a pretty quick FPGA, and has all the features/performance of the SDS2000X+ with additional features at 12 bits, and an apparent price point (even if 2X) that is just amazing!! There's a boat load of technology within these scopes, more than any of us could even fathom a few years ago, more than any of us will likely use (or totally understand), and apparently for the price of a mid-level lab power supply!!

We now have these high performing 12 bit scopes in various flavors from quality OEMs Rigol and Siglent, that just plane kick arse!! What is there to complain about, unless well, someone just picked up a Owon, Hantek, or Fnirsi 

Best,

[DaneLaw]

Took a look at Taobao with all their infamous babies they wanna sell (translate chananagang)
Usually, you can sense the inner value, what a given product is being sold for alongside price reductions.

SDS2104X-HD seems to be around 22.880CNY (2900euro) though there are two listings at 13.800 CNY (1750 euros)
- but I aint logged in, so not sure if there is a lesser variant stacked in those listings as it is quite a bit lower.

Siglent.com aint to happy about accessing their Chinese region, and tends to flip you back to int or eu.
But the stated price listed above #81 [1722euro] does seem weirdly low for the SDS2104X-HD.

[tautech]

Yes, slowly but surely we are being geofenced from access to the .com website.

[Antonio90]

Took a look at Taobao with all their infamous babies they wanna sell (translate chananagang)
Usually, you can sense the inner value, what a given product is being sold for alongside price reductions.

SDS2104X-HD seems to be around 22.880CNY (2900euro) though there are two listings at 13.800 CNY (1750 euros)
- but I aint logged in, so not sure if there is a lesser variant stacked in those listings as it is quite a bit lower.

Siglent.com aint to happy about accessing their Chinese region, and tends to flip you back to int or eu.
But the stated price listed above #81 [1722euro] does seem weirdly low for the SDS2104X-HD.

The price was just the result of googling 13.800 CNY to EUR while writing the post.
Maybe there was a low peak in exchange rate? Or a typo on my end.
In any case, Siglent.com has 13.800 CNY as the price.

EDIT: it was not half, but € 190-220 more than half, depending on the VAT rates of each country, at the googled exchange.

And, in any case, I just said I was surprised. At €300 more than the plus I just think the plus makes no sense in China, that's all. The HD is a strict upgrade. 4 math channels, 12 bits, zone trigger, you can pan the waveform along full memory without delays, digital filters, and probably quite a bit more.
At the current price it has no competition here, but, like the SDS800X-HD, the chinese pricing is just nuts.

[tszaboo]

I don't find it surprising, the EU price is bad value for such a scope.

It is actually still too cheap for what it has and can do.
It completely outperforms the RTB2000 series and in parts even the Waverunner 4000HD from Lecroy.
I don't know what yardstick you're using to say that the price is too high.

It's a 100MHz scope for 3000 EUR.
Rigol has the DHO4204 twice the speed for the same price.
Certiprime MSOX2024A will get you twice the speed and logic probe for less.
PicoScope 5444D with up to 16 bits, Wavegen, LA for the same price.
You can spin this all you want, but it's not a good price for a crippled 100MHz Chinese scope, with expensive options.

[Antonio90]

I don't find it surprising, the EU price is bad value for such a scope.

It is actually still too cheap for what it has and can do.
It completely outperforms the RTB2000 series and in parts even the Waverunner 4000HD from Lecroy.
I don't know what yardstick you're using to say that the price is too high.

It's a 100MHz scope for 3000 EUR.
Rigol has the DHO4204 twice the speed for the same price.
Certiprime MSOX2024A will get you twice the speed and logic probe for less.
PicoScope 5444D with up to 16 bits, Wavegen, LA for the same price.
You can spin this all you want, but it's not a good price for a crippled 100MHz Chinese scope, with expensive options.

But it is a bit like the MSO5074 for € 1000, isn't it? A 70MHz scope after all, nobody pays so much for 70MHz.
And Martin has a 500MHz 12bit scope, quite fully featured for 3.000. I don't think that's a bad price at all.

[tszaboo]

I don't find it surprising, the EU price is bad value for such a scope.

It is actually still too cheap for what it has and can do.
It completely outperforms the RTB2000 series and in parts even the Waverunner 4000HD from Lecroy.
I don't know what yardstick you're using to say that the price is too high.

It's a 100MHz scope for 3000 EUR.
Rigol has the DHO4204 twice the speed for the same price.
Certiprime MSOX2024A will get you twice the speed and logic probe for less.
PicoScope 5444D with up to 16 bits, Wavegen, LA for the same price.
You can spin this all you want, but it's not a good price for a crippled 100MHz Chinese scope, with expensive options.

But it is a bit like the MSO5074 for € 1000, isn't it? A 70MHz scope after all, nobody pays so much for 70MHz.
And Martin has a 500MHz 12bit scope, quite fully featured for 3.000. I don't think that's a bad price at all.

MSO5074 is great price. The hacks for the SDS-HD aren't available publicly, so you get the scope you ordered.

[voltsandjolts]

Unless you speak nicely to some knowledgeable folks here

[Serg65536]

So now we have a peculiar situation: the Siglent SDS804X HD (304 euro) is both much cheaper and much better than SDS1104X-E (407 euro).

There's obviously something wrong with the situation!

And here is the most probable outcomes:
1) The release price will be slightly higher than 407 euro (507, for eg.)
2) The Siglent SDS804X HD has some critical performance issues (as Rigol DHO804 does).
3) The price of SDS1104X-E will be significantly reduced (probability ~ 0.0001% )

My guess - something between 1) and 2) in proportion 80% to 20% respectively. 

[tv84]

Gentlemen, as long as there is no price for western markets, any comparison is nonsense.

"Ah, but I can buy it online in China and send it over..." Sure but, bypassing the legal matters, then at least you must add the S/H and VAT.

[Mechatrommer]

earlier: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-just-drop-its-mic-new-sds800hd-12bit-scope-crazy-price-leaked/msg5210769/#msg5210769


now (tax included?): https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-sds800x-hd-first-bactch-unboxing-and-noise-compare-with-dho800/msg5249739/#msg5249739

[Performa01]

It's a 100MHz scope for 3000 EUR.
Rigol has the DHO4204 twice the speed for the same price.

That’s about the only valid comparison. Yes, you currently can save a little money with the DHO - if you don’t value useful FFT and Bode Plot.

Certiprime MSOX2024A will get you twice the speed and logic probe for less.

So you’re throwing in a used 8 bit(!) entry level scope, limited to 200 MHz max. with short memory, heavily decimated measurements and short FFT, without 50 ohm inputs, with poor sensitivity (everything below 4 mV/div is just fake) and only 5 digits frequency counter, that lacks history mode and where even basic features like mask testing, segmented memory or basic decoders are (expensive) options? Seriously?

PicoScope 5444D with up to 16 bits, Wavegen, LA for the same price.

The picoscope is something completely different. It has no power supply, no front panel and no screen and requires some computer to be operated. It is unique in having some mid-range or even high-end features, yet it also has some major drawbacks at the same time, like the lack of intensity/color-grading (the dedicated persistence mode isn’t a viable substitute), lack of 50 ohm inputs, limited measurement statistics and history count, and last not least the intransparent and inflexible acquisition (you have absolutely no control) – just the price you pay for an USB scope.

The resolution enhancement, even though it’s a hardware feature, cannot compete with the real thing, like any true 12 bit scope from the 4000A series. You cannot have full resolution/full sample rate at the same time and the actual dynamic range is nowhere near what could be expected from a high-definition scope.

The digital channels are just a bunch of short wires with a female single pin plug, only usable with small circuits that can be placed very close to the scope. Hardly comparable to a professional solution like the Siglent SPL2016.

You can spin this all you want, but it's not a good price for a crippled 100MHz Chinese scope, with expensive options.

Yes, you can spin this all you want, but up to recently there just was no competition to the SDS2000X HD. Now the DHO4000 could be, but there’s more to that than just some banner specs.

[voltsandjolts]

Picoscope 5K are excellent versatile tools, but I mostly agree about the limitations you mention, except perhaps...

limited measurement statistics and history count

Picoscope 7 software example:



..and I don't understand your reasoning for this statement:

and the actual dynamic range is nowhere near what could be expected from a high-definition scope.

[GnomeZA]

"Ah, but I can buy it online in China and send it over..." Sure but, bypassing the legal matters

What legal matters?