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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: tautech on September 05, 2016, 10:22:23 am

Title: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on September 05, 2016, 10:22:23 am
The next in the X series instruments range, a SDG1000X AWG has been released.
The range has 2 models with 30 or 60 MHz frequencies with Sine and Square waveforms to the maximum frequency of each model.

(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Picture/Product/SDG1000X/SDG1000X-1.png)

http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16)

Datasheet
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDG1000X_DataSheet_DS0201X_E01A.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDG1000X_DataSheet_DS0201X_E01A.pdf)

All Manuals and documentation:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=4705&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=4705&tid=16&T=2)

Models from $399 319

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWAfreXt1g8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWAfreXt1g8)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on September 05, 2016, 12:35:51 pm
Did I read that right, 16k sample memory?  :palm:

I know that the SDG1000 Series is supposed to be cheap but couldn't they spend the $1.50 or so it probably costs to make that to something a little bit more appropriate for 2016, like say 1M?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: nowlan on September 05, 2016, 02:23:25 pm
Did they drop the touch screen. I had hoped to see the the 2000 series cheaper dropping un-needed touch. Not sure its used for anything special.

Also the images are loading very slow on that siglent website, despite being 30kb?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on September 05, 2016, 02:33:58 pm
Did I read that right, 16k sample memory?  :palm:

I know that the SDG1000 Series is supposed to be cheap but couldn't they spend the $1.50 or so it probably costs to make that to something a little bit more appropriate for 2016, like say 1M?

This model have Fixed Arb memory lenght, Fixed clock. With 1M Arb whole memory to DAC, without jumping, take near 6.7ms. Max Arb repeating freq without jumping is around 150Hz.  Not problem but also not always nice when change freq etc and user can not easy know what detail it is now jumping over..
If it have adjustable lenght then max 1M or 10M or 100M...
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: CustomEngineerer on September 07, 2016, 03:35:40 am
Interesting that these appear to be a slightly lesser version of the SDG2000X series in just about everything except for square wave performance. Up to 60 MHz square waves on the SDG1062X.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on September 07, 2016, 03:52:42 am
Interesting that these appear to be a slightly lesser version of the SDG2000X series in just about everything except for square wave performance. Up to 60 MHz square waves on the SDG1062X.
:)
Yes you might say that but also that they're an updated SDG1000 to X series status:
Bigger and higher resolution display
LAN added.
Same output amplitude on both channels.
Plus the many more inbuilt arb waveforms that were only available on the SDG2000X series.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: pascal_sweden on September 07, 2016, 09:17:52 am
Better to go for the entry model in the SDS2000X series and "upgrade" it to 120 MHz.

The price difference is not that big after all, and the specs are so much better, so it's definitely worth!
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Orange on September 07, 2016, 09:19:13 am
Do the new Siglent X gens support the dBm setting on the amplitude ?

I cannot find this in the manuals, screen shots in the manual do not show this either.

 
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: simone.pignatti on September 07, 2016, 03:34:06 pm
Here is a PDF file which shows the main differences between SDG2000X and SDG1000X

- 14bit Vs. 16bit
- Bandwidth
- DAC Sampling Rate
- Noise Floor
- Pulse Performances
- Arbitrary Performances

http://www.batterfly.com/PDF/Siglent/siglent-sdg2000x-sdg1000x.pdf (http://www.batterfly.com/PDF/Siglent/siglent-sdg2000x-sdg1000x.pdf)

Bye
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: smarteebit on September 08, 2016, 01:15:35 am
Here is a PDF file which shows the main differences between SDG2000X and SDG1000X

- 14bit Vs. 16bit
- Bandwidth
- DAC Sampling Rate
- Noise Floor
- Pulse Performances
- Arbitrary Performances

http://www.batterfly.com/PDF/Siglent/siglent-sdg2000x-sdg1000x.pdf (http://www.batterfly.com/PDF/Siglent/siglent-sdg2000x-sdg1000x.pdf)

Bye

Since SDG1000X is a update of SDG1000, I don't think comparing it with SDG2000X is fair. It makes more sense to show a table with the differences between SDG1000 and SDG1000X.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Orange on September 08, 2016, 07:09:59 am
Do the new Siglent X gens support the dBm setting on the amplitude ?

I cannot find this in the manuals, screen shots in the manual do not show this either.
I guess not, better stick to Rigol then
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on September 08, 2016, 07:22:46 am
Do the new Siglent X gens support the dBm setting on the amplitude ?

I cannot find this in the manuals, screen shots in the manual do not show this either.
I guess not, better stick to Rigol then
Sorry Orange, away from office ATM, I'll try to find this out for you.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: simone.pignatti on September 08, 2016, 07:36:07 am
Here is the product evolution from the SDG1000 to the SDG1000X

- Main Specs
- Dual Channel
- Pulse
- Square
- Noise
- Software
- New Features

http://www.batterfly.com/PDF/Siglent/siglent-sdg1000-sdg1000x.pdf (http://www.batterfly.com/PDF/Siglent/siglent-sdg1000-sdg1000x.pdf)

Bye
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on September 08, 2016, 07:56:34 am
Do the new Siglent X gens support the dBm setting on the amplitude ?

I cannot find this in the manuals, screen shots in the manual do not show this either.
I guess not, better stick to Rigol then
Sorry Orange, away from office ATM, I'll try to find this out for you.
I have very fast reply from Jexy at tech support and the answer is yes for 50  \$\Omega\$ output only.

Edit as promised
I got the same pic as simone.pignatti  has posted below from Jext at tech support.
But he also sent some more as attached
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: simone.pignatti on September 08, 2016, 07:57:50 am
Do the new Siglent X gens support the dBm setting on the amplitude ?

I cannot find this in the manuals, screen shots in the manual do not show this either.
Yes it does
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: pascal_sweden on September 08, 2016, 08:13:37 am
At this moment Siglent signal generators outperform Rigol signal generators in the same price range.
So it is very easy to decide a purchase.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Orange on September 08, 2016, 04:44:58 pm
Thanks guys for checking !

May I suggests that Siglent updates the user manual accordingly. They are not mentioning this dBm capability at all, also not in the SDG2000X


Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: simone.pignatti on September 12, 2016, 03:15:00 pm
we have now units to test, please let us know if you like to see any special features

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juf995ZAjqg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juf995ZAjqg)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on October 26, 2016, 07:01:07 pm
New FW for the SDG1000X series
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000X_P22.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000X_P22.rar)
11.7 Mb

AFAIKT the same features and improvements that have just been added in new FW to the SDG2000X series.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: janekivi on October 26, 2016, 08:31:12 pm
This is because most of the firmware contents are the same. They have the same root password too.
Files in zip are exactly one month old... may be they have different calendar.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on February 06, 2017, 06:58:27 pm
Mini Teardown with pics:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1032x-mini-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1032x-mini-teardown/)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on June 08, 2017, 09:22:10 pm
Siglent are offering a promotion for SDG1032X with a reduction of $40 off RRP. Promo price $359.
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1968&sid=205 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1968&sid=205)

Product page:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=1463&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=1463&T=2&tid=16)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on September 03, 2017, 08:35:31 am
Previously there was questions about dBm level settings and mostly I can see only then 50ohm impedance in images and in messages.

SDG1000X series  (as also what ever brand and model) can not tell dBm for undefined Hi-Z load. Why - may some noob ask. Because dBm is POWER unit. How can set power if load is unknown (high-z).
So with this Hi-Z output setting dBm is disabled.  With all other output load settings dBm can use.

With defined loads, power level can set as dBm.
User can define load from 50ohm up to 100kohm.
Example if output freq is over 10MHz Hi-Z max Vpeak-peak is 10V (or 5Vpeak what is same) and internal source impedance is always 50ohm.

Now with 50ohm load this maximum Voltage is of course half, 5Vpeak-peak (2.5Vpeak) and this is 1.77 Vrms and to this 50 ohm load it give 62.5mW   what is 17.96 dBm  (all values bit rounded)

But then what happend if I set load impedance  to some other value.
Say example to 600ohm. 
This same maximum output level is now 12.49dBm.

With same setting, maximum level to 100kohm.
Now it give only -9.03dBm 

Yes it calculate right value for this load what user have told to generator.

Of course it can also manually calculate if want. Only what need think is this
GND -- [(G~ Ri 0ohm) -- (internal 50ohm) ---(SDGChxOut)] --- Rload -- GND
And G~ V is same what it tell for Hi-Z V level.

First calculate voltage across this Rload.

Using this voltage  calculate power  across Rload. 

For dBm calculus this AnalogDevices tool is quite good.
http://www.analog.com/en/design-center/interactive-design-tools/dbconvert.html (http://www.analog.com/en/design-center/interactive-design-tools/dbconvert.html)

No need calculate (exept that calculations are fun and for young peoples also useful for better understanding things),
of course Siglent SDG´s do it for you
.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=347478;image)
In this example image SDG1kX output is set for maximum level using dBm scale and load impedance 600 ohm
Commonly dBm is used for 50ohm system but there is lot of other impedances what we use in practice.
Also SDG2000X series load can set from 50ohm to 100kohm, just same.



Advantage over SDG2000X in SDG1000X is its new square/rectangle wave circuit. It can do full BW Square. (30MHz model 30MHz and 60MHz model 60MHz).
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=347538;image)
In this image example about SDG1kX 60MHz square. Measured using old HP boat anchor but this scope have real 50ohm input impedance instead of what can find in cheap machines as "50 ohm input".


Also in somewhere in web I have seen some total crap claims that SDG1000X flatness is not very good.
This is what I can see and also I have checked it using HP power meter and results are inline.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=347489;image)
Sweep from 5MHz to 60MHz  with 4 different levels. (yes, under 1.001Vpeak-peak level flatness is not very perfect but, still quite good.
Edit Add: SA horizontal scale linear. SDG1000X frequency sweep linear.


ETA:
Because some user have asked.
When you go to set Output Load
(Utility >> Output Setup >> Load >>  you can here select HighZ or 50ohm. )
If you select 50ohm then you see cursor also apperas over 50ohm. Now you can adjust also other values 50 - 100kohm using adjusting knob or enter value using keyboard)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on September 03, 2017, 02:47:59 pm
Here  Square from SDG1032X with its maximum 30MHz Square. (SDG1062X maximum is 60MHz Sqr what was displayed in previous image)
And for compare, Siglent SDG2042X with its maximum 25MHz Square.
This is why I told that SDG1000X series have special circuit for Sqr what SDG2000X series do not have albeit it is other way higher performace model.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=347574;image)
SDG2042X 25MHz (max)


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=347576;image)
SDG1032X 30MHz (max)

Game over.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on September 08, 2017, 02:05:36 am
New firmware for SDG1000X models:

Version: V1.01.01.22R5
12.3 Mb
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6419&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6419&tid=15)

Changelog
Only 1 listed item.  :-//
1.Supported system recovery from U-disk.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on September 22, 2017, 01:43:44 pm
Here examples with same settings what are used in this Rigol DG1000Z thread. After I look this I made tiny test with Siglent again with same setup. (exept that used scope is far better)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1032z-can-it-be-upgraded-to-dg1062z-or-is-hw-different/msg1306309/#msg1306309 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1032z-can-it-be-upgraded-to-dg1062z-or-is-hw-different/msg1306309/#msg1306309)

Examples
15MHz, 25MHz (as with Rigol)
After then 30MHz and last 60MHz.
Square wave, 50ohm Tektronix feed thru terminator in scope input. Scope used here SDS1202X-E

As can see SDG1000X Square wave is in its own class compared to Riglol.

Even with 60MHz there can still see some flat top and nothing like Rigol with 25MHz.

EDIT: for more easy compoare I add these Rigol images also here, 15MHz and 25MHz.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on September 24, 2017, 10:46:38 am
In previous msg we can see how this generator Square wave works up to 60MHz.
Square wave is produced with new special circuits and this rise and fall time is available only with square function. This is also far better than Rigol DS1000Z series but also better than Siglent SDG2000X series.

But then there is some factory limits in SDG1000X and here I have done some experimental work for look if these limits are written in stone or... 

Of course factory limits are with reasons. Example level limits related to frequency  need stay untouched for avoid some components over stress.

Here some examples about something. (these are not abs max stretched limits but with these limits not yet so much bad effects in signals quality etc.)


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=354055;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=354057;image)

1.  Factory limit for triangle wave is 500kHz. 
There can see how it works with 2MHz and with 5MHz. (FW limit set for 5MHz)
This is just how much we accept turn point rounding (as can see in 50% symmetry image)
Other image is with 0% symmetry setting what give maximal corner ringing (and rise time) using 500kHz, 2MHz and 5MHz.




(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=354059;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=354061;image)

2. Factory limits for Pulse are 12.5MHz max freq, minimum width 32.6ns and minimum rise/fall time 16.8ns.
In these images can see rise/fall limits are now 11.8ns and then can rise max freq limits for 15MHz
Also limits can stretch more but not without adverse effects due to signal filters and fact that this is 150MSa/s machine. 




(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=354063;image)

3. Factory limit is max 20kHz from internal source.
Here max is set for max 50kHz. In image 50% AM with 50kHz and carrier around 51MHz. (+3dBm @50?)




(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=354065;image)

4. Factory limit for Arb is 6MHz
Here limit is set for 10MHz.  Small drop in peaks level. (think peaks freq)

Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: BillB on March 03, 2018, 05:13:30 pm
Thanks for the links, rf-loop!  I'm thinking that the SDG1000X firmware layout must be similar to the SDG2000X and that some of the features they made available to their units might be available for ours.  I think I'll poke around...
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: BillB on March 07, 2018, 10:30:12 pm
I'm thinking that the SDG1000X firmware layout must be similar to the SDG2000X and that some of the features they made available to their units might be available for ours.  I think I'll poke around...

Well, After doing some poking around and seeing what some have done with the SDG2000X AWGs, I managed to upgrade my SDG1032X to an SDG1062X!  It seems most of the Siglent devices (as I guess all these types of devices nowadays) are using embedded Linux on an ARM micro, and once you have root access it's relatively easy to make configuration modifications.   

I've attached a couple of screenshots showing the 1032's new and improved 60MHz output.  Another screenshot shows the system info screen with the serial number intact, but with a better model number :-)

I've also attached a text document that is an annotated telnet session with the device.  If you are comfortable with Linux, it's trivial.  If not, the document walks you through the modification process, step-by-step.  You should still be comfortable with remote consoles, telnet, and LAN IP stuff.

I must say I'm really impressed with all the Siglent gear I have, and with the ability to hack err... modify them, there is really a lot of value for the money.  :-+
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Kuba_eM on March 09, 2018, 11:44:02 am
Dear BillB, the file (FW22_eevblog version for the SDG1032X) you mention in the manual is no longer available for download. Could you put it back on some generally available server?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: BillB on March 09, 2018, 01:07:58 pm
Dear BillB, the file (FW22_eevblog version for the SDG1032X) you mention in the manual is no longer available for download. Could you put it back on some generally available server?

Try looking here:

https://nofile.io/f/Vg5FbxReRVC/SDG1000X_V100R001B01D01P22_eevblog.zip (https://nofile.io/f/Vg5FbxReRVC/SDG1000X_V100R001B01D01P22_eevblog.zip)

The password should be reeally easy to guess.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Kuba_eM on March 09, 2018, 03:47:58 pm
Thank you, BillB
"The password should be reeally easy to guess"  :-+
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on March 10, 2018, 07:11:59 pm
In some my prevous msg can see some scope images about changes.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1307521/#msg1307521 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1307521/#msg1307521)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1309013/#msg1309013 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1309013/#msg1309013)

Here images from SDG1000X screen


Ramp, factory limit 500kHz, here rised to 5MHz.  (of course corners are rounded with 5MHz)
Arb is limited to 6MHz, here 10MHz
Some internal modulations are limited to 20kHz by factory, here 50kHz
Sweep time max is 500s from factory, Here rised to 100ks (bit over one day)
Pulse rise and fall times from factory 16.8ns, here 11.8ns
These some limits here are not maximally changed "up to" values. I have not tested what are max values and not even these my values for test carefully all things how they change signal quality when SDG is used outside of factory limits.
Then output max level limit (this was only experimental test if it can modify at all or not). From factory it is 0-10MHz max 20Vpp and over 10MHz 10Vpp. Here changed so that 0-12MHz is 20Vpp (Do not change these factory level limits! (exept if you really KNOW - here know is not synonym for believe - you can do it in your individual special use so that it can not make damage or shorten lifetime) It may permanently damage output amplifiers. All understand who is fully responsible if your output amplifiers etc fails and it happend easy when go out from factory limits.

Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on March 10, 2018, 07:48:26 pm
Here images from SDG1000X screen

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=402683)

 :-DD

 :-+
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on March 11, 2018, 10:25:01 am
(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDG1000X/Rigol-DG1032Z-Square-15MHz-50ohm-1Vpp.png)
Rigol DG1032Z  15MHz Square, 1Vpp 50 ohm, Rigol modified DS1000Z oscilloscope and 50 ohm termination.
Rigol image source: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1032z-can-it-be-upgraded-to-dg1062z-or-is-hw-different/msg1306309/#msg1306309 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1032z-can-it-be-upgraded-to-dg1062z-or-is-hw-different/msg1306309/#msg1306309)

(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDG1000X/SDG1032X-Square-1Vpp-15MHz-50ohm.png)
Siglent SDG1032X, 15MHz Square, 1Vpp 50 ohm, Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope and 50 ohm termination.



(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDG1000X/Rigol-DG1032Z-Square-25MHz-50ohm-1Vpp.png)
Rigol DG1032Z  25MHz Square, 1Vpp 50 ohm, Rigol modified DS1000Z oscilloscope and 50 ohm termination.
Rigol image source: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1032z-can-it-be-upgraded-to-dg1062z-or-is-hw-different/msg1306309/#msg1306309 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1032z-can-it-be-upgraded-to-dg1062z-or-is-hw-different/msg1306309/#msg1306309)

(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDG1000X/SDG1032X-Square-1Vpp-25MHz-50ohm.png)
Siglent SDG1032X, 25MHz Square, 1Vpp 50 ohm, Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope and 50 ohm termination.

(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDG1000X/SDG1032Xm-Square-1Vpp-60MHz-50ohm.png)
And Siglent SDG1032Xm62X 60MHz
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: janekivi on March 11, 2018, 11:02:22 am
Thank you, BillB
"The password should be reeally easy to guess"  :-+

For my files, there is one rule - if you won't be able to guess the password - here,
being in this forum user, You are not qualified to hack Your equipment. : )
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on July 26, 2018, 10:43:57 am
New firmware for SDG1000X series.

Version 1.01.01.30.R1
12.8 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/6889/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/6889/)

Changelog
1. Supported Up followed by Down Sweep mode in Linear sweep (no change for Log sweep).
2. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.
3. Increased the upper limit of Harmonics number from 10 to 16.
4. Added an icon to indicate clock source is internal or external.
5. Supported specifying Arb type by remote control when the modulating waveform is Arb.
6. Supported changing the unit of amplitude without any amplitude change by long pressing the "Amplitude" softkey.
7. Added "User" option under "PowerOn Setting".
8. Added "Normal" as a new UI color style.
9. Added memory space information in Store/Recall UI.
10. Added ARB waveform name to display, allowing user to know which Arb waveform is loaded.
11. Optimized response of the universal knob.
12. Fixed several bugs:
a) Burst cycles not corrected when it is set to a value ≥65536. [2017/12/25-1116387]
b) In some sweep case the start and stop frequencies deviate from the set values.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on September 18, 2018, 07:22:42 am
New firmware for SDG1000X series.

Version 1.01.01.30.R1
12.8 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/6889/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/6889/)

Changelog
1. Supported Up followed by Down Sweep mode in Linear sweep (no change for Log sweep).
2. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.
3. Increased the upper limit of Harmonics number from 10 to 16.
4. Added an icon to indicate clock source is internal or external.
5. Supported specifying Arb type by remote control when the modulating waveform is Arb.
6. Supported changing the unit of amplitude without any amplitude change by long pressing the "Amplitude" softkey.
7. Added "User" option under "PowerOn Setting".
8. Added "Normal" as a new UI color style.
9. Added memory space information in Store/Recall UI.
10. Added ARB waveform name to display, allowing user to know which Arb waveform is loaded.
11. Optimized response of the universal knob.
12. Fixed several bugs:
a) Burst cycles not corrected when it is set to a value ≥65536. [2017/12/25-1116387]
b) In some sweep case the start and stop frequencies deviate from the set values.

Quote
2. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.

This was very very good change. After long time finally tested this using SA and it really works. Not it is nice to use for some radio tuning works and works similar with normal RF generators.
I have long missed this feature in all Siglent SDG.

Note: now also (some) users need be careful. If he set amplitude, say example 1Vpp. And he now "believe" that all what is coming out do not exceed 1Vpp. This is not anymore true when user turns AM modulation on, of course peak value depends mod depth and is double if mode depth is 100%. Carrier stay now same level but modulated signal time domain amplitude depends now AM modulation depth.
Of course, learning helps. It is very important to understand how devices work and the characteristics of different signals also in theory.


Quote
6. Supported changing the unit of amplitude without any amplitude change by long pressing the "Amplitude" softkey.

Many times useful in practice. No need calculate or conversion table.
Just set -7.65dBm and later if want look or set it using Vrms or Vpeak just bit longer 1second push "amplitude" key for switch between units. Previously it was not possible.

And some other useful changes.

But now, old  _eevblog.ads version is .22.
It is very important to update FW to more new version. One very important thing is that .22 version do not support Siglent USB recovery at all if "bad happen".  First FW version it is supported is 22R5   (but there was not so many other things. So not useful to "eevblog" it.
Now this 33R1 have so much  advantages and fixes that perhaps it is better if we have eevblog for it.
Of course if do using eevblog 22 it can update to official 33R1
But if want or have done also other modifications (some useful mods with some functions limits) every update to official version overwrite these some nice things (exept model) what are possible with eevblog version...

 :-/O
So let's hope some day... 
.........if well known magician or Santa Claus is listening.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: jleg on September 18, 2018, 08:56:50 am
Now this 33R1 have so much  advantages and fixes that perhaps it is better if we have eevblog for it.
Of course if do using eevblog 22 it can update to official 33R1
But if want or have done also other modifications (some useful mods with some functions limits) every update to official version overwrite these some nice things (exept model) what are possible with eevblog version...

I have difficulties to understand the above - do you say updating from 22R5 to 30R1 "destroys" the "little inofficial upgrade" from SDG1032X to SDG1062X?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on September 18, 2018, 09:16:26 am
Now this 33R1 have so much  advantages and fixes that perhaps it is better if we have eevblog for it.
Of course if do using eevblog 22 it can update to official 33R1
But if want or have done also other modifications (some useful mods with some functions limits) every update to official version overwrite these some nice things (exept model) what are possible with eevblog version...

I have difficulties to understand the above - do you say updating from 22R5 to 30R1 "destroys" the "little inofficial upgrade" from SDG1032X to SDG1062X?

Answer to your question: I did not say anything like this you ask. Where from you get this.

If you did not understand what I said (it tells that you have not done these other things) then do not worry at all. It does not affect or mean anything in your case. ;)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: jleg on September 18, 2018, 01:36:35 pm

Answer to your question: I did not say anything like this you ask. Where from you get this.

If you talk about "eevblog 22" you probably mean user @janekivi's version of firmware 22, which (re-)enables telnet. And probably the most popular "modification" relates to the file NSP_system_info.xml.
Since you talk about "...update to official version overwrite these some nice things..." that imo could lead a reader to think you're talking about the mod of the model (32X->62X)...

Anyway, for me this looks like - it is still unknown if upgrading to 30R1 (imo there is no "33R1" so far, btw) will revert the model patch, and it is also not yet clear if it would be possible to revert back to @janekivi's version 22 in case re-enabling telnet is necessary.

Quote from: rf-loop
If you did not understand what I said (it tells that you have not done these other things) then do not worry at all. It does not affect or mean anything in your case. ;)

that's probably more a problem of "language", than a "technical aspect", i guess...


Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tv84 on September 18, 2018, 01:53:35 pm
If you talk about "eevblog 22" you probably mean user @janekivi's version of firmware 22, which (re-)enables telnet. And probably the most popular "modification" relates to the file NSP_system_info.xml.
Since you talk about "...update to official version overwrite these some nice things..." that imo could lead a reader to think you're talking about the mod of the model (32X->62X)...

The level of modifications that each user in this forum does to his equipments varies. That's the reason of the misunderstanding.

Check this msg to see what I mean:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1448961/#msg1448961 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1448961/#msg1448961)

A new FW with just a "release" level modification should not disable the ability to roll back to previous versions.

The BW mod will continue valid, as usual. Regarding the root pwd, let's wait for janekivi or me.... if I find the time.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: jleg on September 18, 2018, 02:24:43 pm
The level of modifications that each user in this forum does to his equipments varies. That's the reason of the misunderstanding.

Check this msg to see what I mean:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1448961/#msg1448961 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1448961/#msg1448961)

Thx, I in fact was not aware of those "factory limit" modifications...

Quote
A new FW with just a "release" level modification should not disable the ability to roll back to previous versions.

The BW mod will continue valid, as usual. Regarding the root pwd, let's wait for janekivi or me.... if I find the time.

 :-+
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: janekivi on September 18, 2018, 07:31:00 pm
I don't have it but I can make this for you:
(as usual made with notepad and there is 5 changes for replace the root password)

SDG1000X_30R1_eevblog.zip (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=41284313141306464593)

May be this is working?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on September 24, 2018, 05:47:35 am
removed obsolete and partially danger disinformation due to more new FW's with new features.

Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: janekivi on September 24, 2018, 05:26:28 pm
So they can't use our ideas without our password.

But my idea was not to have detailed guides.
Hacking is more for those who are able to repair their equipment
if something goes wrong...
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tv84 on October 04, 2018, 09:08:04 pm
Telnet without changing root password...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: nihtila on November 22, 2018, 09:34:50 am
As these generators have a 'special' circuit for generating square wave (which is a great feature!), are there any limitations of features on the square wave output? What I mean, can you still add all modulations on square wave the same way as on sine wave?

Tester here in the UK have 10% discount on Siglent kit this Black Friday (now).
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on November 23, 2018, 07:12:15 am
As these generators have a 'special' circuit for generating square wave (which is a great feature!), are there any limitations of features on the square wave output? What I mean, can you still add all modulations on square wave the same way as on sine wave?

Tester here in the UK have 10% discount on Siglent kit this Black Friday (now).
From the datasheet:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDG1000X_DataSheet_DS0201X_E01E.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDG1000X_DataSheet_DS0201X_E01E.pdf)

Modulation P 9/12
Carrier Sine, Square, Ramp, Arb for most types....but check the full spec.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on November 23, 2018, 08:55:10 am
As these generators have a 'special' circuit for generating square wave (which is a great feature!), are there any limitations of features on the square wave output? What I mean, can you still add all modulations on square wave the same way as on sine wave?

Tester here in the UK have 10% discount on Siglent kit this Black Friday (now).

Square wave modulations: (square but of course also rectangle (other than 50% duty)  in this mode)
AM, DSB-AM, FM, PM, FSK, ASK, PSK
PWM is not possible.

Sine wave modulations just as Square wave modulations.
And also, when Sinewave AM is in use (new FW versions): Level is carrier level! Modulation on/off do not affect carrier level and also carrier level is independent of modulation depth. And this is very nice for example working with RF things like radios etc. AM modulated signal level works as normal RF-generator.



Ramp modulations same as square.

Pulse wave modulations
Only PWM.

Arb modulations
same as square.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: nihtila on November 24, 2018, 04:12:44 pm
Thanks. Decided to order the SDG1062X ... and SDM3055  ::) My Black Friday was relatively cheap until almost midnight when placed the order on Tester/Pass.

I have quite a bit of projects coming and have some plans, and only have two PSUs and (good) scope at the moment. 10% discount is not massive but when the starting price was already ok and those were on my shopping list anyway. I know I could have hacked the SDG1032X but I'm not too much into playing with such stuff and the price difference wasn't huge.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on February 04, 2019, 08:02:45 am
New firmware for SDG1000X series AWG's.

1.01.01.30R1B2
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8115/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8115/)

Changelog
1. Fixed a bug: Setting frequency of one channel with square wave causes another channel output disabled
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on February 26, 2019, 09:43:38 am
More new firmware for SDG1000X models.

Version 1.01.01.33R1
13.3 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8115/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8115/)

Changelog
1. Supported TrueArb: 2~16 kpts
2. Optimized the UI of selecting built-in arbs
3. Changed the clock switch strategy: When the clock source is set to External and no actual external clock signal is being received, the clock source will not switch to Internal automatically but the clock icon will indicate that external clock is lost.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: 4x1md on February 26, 2019, 08:28:22 pm
Is there any way to save a screenshot of SDG1032X to a USB stick?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tv84 on February 26, 2019, 08:35:22 pm
Don't remember well if they exist on SDG but try SCPI commands SCDP or BMP. Member Rerouter may help you.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on February 26, 2019, 09:06:08 pm
Is there any way to save a screenshot of SDG1032X to a USB stick?
Not with the front panel UI, just tried.  :(

There might be some how with the SCPI commands, dunno but have a look through them here:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/3290/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/3290/)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on March 15, 2019, 09:24:50 am
More new firmware for SDG1000X models.

Version 1.01.01.33R1
13.3 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8115/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8115/)

Changelog
1. Supported TrueArb: 2~16 kpts
2. Optimized the UI of selecting built-in arbs


1. This also need urgently new updated User Manual's so that users can understand how to get all out from this  major improvement  and data sheets.
 
It is really nice upgrade. "TrueArb" technology  is big advantage in some situations when need Arb  without 1 clock jitter and/or jump over details, due to adjustable sampling speed (max 30Msa/s in TrueArb mode) and adjustabe Arb memory length. ( 2 to 16k.)

2. Previously selecting Arb from memory to use was cumbersome.  Also previously selecting Arb and then select some other Arb was really cumbersome. Now with this preview on screen and together with rotary encoder push it is easy and fast to select and change Arb waveforms in use. Well "Optimized" Siglent!

Interesting surprice find. (https://app.box.com/s/srj3uev2s9wy78qj8d4jzi0j5ocgkmr9)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: 4x1md on April 11, 2019, 08:28:29 pm
Yesterday I found an issue with SDG1032X when I connected it to an audio amplifier. Every time I change frequency, I hear a click in the loudspeaker. I didn't check this issue with an oscilloscope but I know that it doesn't happen with my BK Precision BK4075. Is there any way to fix it?

Attached a video which demonstrates the issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgvmuKRE098 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgvmuKRE098)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: CustomEngineerer on April 12, 2019, 05:00:43 am
Try setting Utility->Mode->Independent
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: 4x1md on April 30, 2019, 07:35:55 pm
It helped. Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tv84 on May 28, 2019, 09:16:16 am
SHELLCMD telnetd -l/bin/sh -p9999

Also works in this case  :-+, so no loading of special firmware is involved

Those .ADS do exactly the same and don't depend on the SHELLCMD availability...
Title: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: HendriXML on June 09, 2019, 08:06:52 pm
During the final fase of implementing a method of doing measurements with the SDG1032X and SDS11004X-E with an accuracy of < 1 mV over a range of 0..1 V.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-awg-and-a-scope-do-a-low-voltage-level-characterization-of-a-1n4005/msg2467191/#msg2467191 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-awg-and-a-scope-do-a-low-voltage-level-characterization-of-a-1n4005/msg2467191/#msg2467191)


I had an unoptimized glimps of it and was very pleased with the results, however the SDG1032X fails on me and starts up only showing the logo.   :scared:

I've seen Dave's recovery video, and also read this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1399308/#msg1399308 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1399308/#msg1399308)

Is there a way to get the recovery files for this device and do a quick recovery?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on June 09, 2019, 08:37:32 pm
During the final fase of implementing a method of doing measurements with the SDG1032X and SDS11004X-E with an accuracy of < 1 mV over a range of 0..1 V.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-awg-and-a-scope-do-a-low-voltage-level-characterization-of-a-1n4005/msg2467191/#msg2467191 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-awg-and-a-scope-do-a-low-voltage-level-characterization-of-a-1n4005/msg2467191/#msg2467191)


I had an unoptimized glimps of it and was very pleased with the results, however the SDG1032X fails on me and starts up only showing the logo.   :scared:

I've seen Dave's recovery video, and also read this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1399308/#msg1399308 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1399308/#msg1399308)

Is there a way to get the recovery files for this device and do a quick recovery?
I think I have what you need on the PC at home.
Do you know which FW version you had installed ?
I’ll be in touch by PM and will need your email to send the recovery files. I’ll be home in ~12 hrs.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: HendriXML on June 09, 2019, 09:01:45 pm
Hi tautech, that would be great! My new device came with the newest firmware, so the recovery option should be included. Any idea whether the device depended calibration of it would survive the procedure?

Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: HendriXML on June 10, 2019, 09:18:54 am
This error got me thinking about the file system. If this problem is fixable, I would like to create further self constructed arbitrary waves at the usb drive. Does anyone know if thats possible using scpi commands?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on June 10, 2019, 09:32:40 am
This error got me thinking about the file system. If this problem is fixable,
It is ! !  :box:

Quote
I would like to create further self constructed arbitrary waves at the usb drive. Does anyone know if thats possible using scpi commands?
Have a look here at some samples I got from the factory years back......they were for the SDG1000 series but should still work with X models:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1025-matlab-programming-arb-waveform/)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: HendriXML on June 10, 2019, 10:12:22 am
Thanks for the link. But I didn’t find any info on how to select the wave destination. Maybe creating a symbolic link on the filesystem to redirect all custom waves to the usb drive is maybe the easiest.

I don’t know how well the wear leveling of the normal save location is.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: HendriXML on June 10, 2019, 10:26:53 am
This error got me thinking about the file system. If this problem is fixable,
It is ! !  :box:
That would be great, but there’s still the question whether the calibration will survive the recovery.

If it doesn’t, then it might become less useful, certainly regarding the level of precision it had and the use I made of it. I think we’ll have to see. Maybe there’s a procedure to create a copy of the calibration data?

Maybe it can boot from the usb, without altering anything so the procedure can be run even in the stuck boot situation?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on June 10, 2019, 10:31:05 am
This error got me thinking about the file system. If this problem is fixable,
It is ! !  :box:

Maybe it can boot from the usb, without altering anything?
Yes.  ;)
Expect files soon......I have them from the factory now.  :phew:
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: HendriXML on June 11, 2019, 12:13:46 am
Thanks to tautech, :-+

I could go back to finalizing my experimenting with the wave generator and the scope.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-awg-and-a-scope-do-a-low-voltage-level-characterization-of-a-1n4005/msg2476044/#msg2476044 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-awg-and-a-scope-do-a-low-voltage-level-characterization-of-a-1n4005/msg2476044/#msg2476044)

I haven't noticed any difference in how the device was/is calibrated, so that supports the idea that the calibration data is left alone. :-+
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on August 20, 2019, 03:15:03 am
New firmware for SDG1000X AWG's

Version 1.01.01.33R1B5
13.3 MB
https://siglentna.com/download/14915/

Release notes
Fixed an upgrade bug in 1.01.01.33R1. It is recommended to upgrade to 1.01.01.33R1B5 instead of 1.01.01.33R1
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: e0ne199 on January 17, 2020, 08:06:02 pm
hello..does anyone here still have this file : SDG1000X_V100R001B01D01P22_eevblog.zip ?
i want to try the hack too  ;D
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tv84 on January 17, 2020, 08:48:33 pm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: e0ne199 on January 18, 2020, 12:10:59 am
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
i have downloaded sdg1000x ads file but i am unable to flash it to my AWG...are there any additional steps to use it?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on January 18, 2020, 02:41:01 am
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
i have downloaded sdg1000x ads file but i am unable to flash it to my AWG...are there any additional steps to use it?

You mean this [telnet_SDG1000X.ADS]

This you can not flash at all. You do all like FW update with this file and SDG tell that it fails... do not care...do not shut off... just telnet and do what ever inside SDG system. If you do not know what to do there inside system and how... then please study first...yes it may take time to find all or if you find right place there (https://app.box.com/s/srj3uev2s9wy78qj8d4jzi0j5ocgkmr9) can perhaps find all very detailed full instructions (it is like spring festival gift package what include all you need) what can use like blind (after you have telnet working) but be careful... it do not forgive any kind of typemistakes.   Do not try..oops...try...oops iteration... because this method may lead you to real problems and nearly like "destroy" your SDG

And seriously, do NOT downgrade to semidanger factory original or "eevblog version" FW ....01P22 even if you find it somewhere because if bad happen and it goes to boot problem... it do not support USB recovery method.

Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: e0ne199 on January 18, 2020, 04:43:19 am
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
i have downloaded sdg1000x ads file but i am unable to flash it to my AWG...are there any additional steps to use it?

You mean this [telnet_SDG1000X.ADS]

This you can not flash at all. You do all like FW update with this file and SDG tell that it fails... do not care...do not shut off... just telnet and do what ever inside SDG system. If you do not know what to do there inside system and how... then please study first...yes it may take time to find all or if you find right place there (https://app.box.com/s/srj3uev2s9wy78qj8d4jzi0j5ocgkmr9) can perhaps find all very detailed full instructions (it is like spring festival gift package what include all you need) what can use like blind (after you have telnet working) but be careful... it do not forgive any kind of typemistakes.   Do not try..oops...try...oops iteration... because this method may lead you to real problems and nearly like "destroy" your SDG

And seriously, do NOT downgrade to semidanger factory original or "eevblog version" FW ....01P22 even if you find it somewhere because if bad happen and it goes to boot problem... it do not support USB recovery method.

yes i did firmware update using that file several times and the answer from my SDG was that it failed to download that FW file ...so does that mean it was successfully downloaded into my AWG?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on January 18, 2020, 05:28:14 am
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
i have downloaded sdg1000x ads file but i am unable to flash it to my AWG...are there any additional steps to use it?

You mean this [telnet_SDG1000X.ADS]

This you can not flash at all. You do all like FW update with this file and SDG tell that it fails... do not care...do not shut off... just telnet and do what ever inside SDG system. If you do not know what to do there inside system and how... then please study first...yes it may take time to find all or if you find right place there (https://app.box.com/s/srj3uev2s9wy78qj8d4jzi0j5ocgkmr9) can perhaps find all very detailed full instructions (it is like spring festival gift package what include all you need) what can use like blind (after you have telnet working) but be careful... it do not forgive any kind of typemistakes.   Do not try..oops...try...oops iteration... because this method may lead you to real problems and nearly like "destroy" your SDG

And seriously, do NOT downgrade to semidanger factory original or "eevblog version" FW ....01P22 even if you find it somewhere because if bad happen and it goes to boot problem... it do not support USB recovery method.

yes i did firmware update using that file several times and the answer from my SDG was that it failed to download that FW file ...so does that mean it was successfully downloaded into my AWG?

It is not real FW at all...   it just open port...(and it is open just only until you boot again SDG, so every time you boot you need do this FW trick... and you need boot during this work except if you do all mods at once, and remember to keep original files also there in system but renamed for possible later needs)  now do your homework and read. Read ALL what is included in this zip package I give link in previous message. I know you did not read and look at all there because you ask this. As long as you need ask some thing related to this, tell that you did not read or you did not understand what you read. Sorry this was necessary..  :-DD

Also here in forum is enough talk about what this ADS file do and how to use it...  I know you are hungry but I do not feed you... you need now do simple work.. read and if still do not know then read more. Golden rule, what ever you do... first brain work, then muscle work. There are no totally free lunches........

Btw, there in other thread

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)

 tv84 write (where you first get also this .ADS):

Quote
How to open a telnet session in a Siglent when the root password is unknown?

Use the following scripts, according to each equipment.

They provide a root session via port 10101.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: e0ne199 on January 18, 2020, 05:44:48 am
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
i have downloaded sdg1000x ads file but i am unable to flash it to my AWG...are there any additional steps to use it?

You mean this [telnet_SDG1000X.ADS]

This you can not flash at all. You do all like FW update with this file and SDG tell that it fails... do not care...do not shut off... just telnet and do what ever inside SDG system. If you do not know what to do there inside system and how... then please study first...yes it may take time to find all or if you find right place there (https://app.box.com/s/srj3uev2s9wy78qj8d4jzi0j5ocgkmr9) can perhaps find all very detailed full instructions (it is like spring festival gift package what include all you need) what can use like blind (after you have telnet working) but be careful... it do not forgive any kind of typemistakes.   Do not try..oops...try...oops iteration... because this method may lead you to real problems and nearly like "destroy" your SDG

And seriously, do NOT downgrade to semidanger factory original or "eevblog version" FW ....01P22 even if you find it somewhere because if bad happen and it goes to boot problem... it do not support USB recovery method.

yes i did firmware update using that file several times and the answer from my SDG was that it failed to download that FW file ...so does that mean it was successfully downloaded into my AWG?

It is not real FW at all...   it just open port...(and it is open just only until you boot again SDG, so every time you boot you need do this FW trick... and you need boot during this work except if you do all mods at once, and remember to keep original files also there in system but renamed for possible later needs)  now do your homework and read. Read ALL what is included in this zip package I give link in previous message. Also here in forum is enough talk about what this ADS file do and how to use it...  I know you are hungry but I do not feed you... you need now do simple work.. read and if still do not know then read more. Golden rule, what ever you do... first brain work, then muscle work. There are no totally free lunches........

Btw, there in other thread

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)

 tv84 write (where you find also this .ADS):

Quote
How to open a telnet session in a Siglent when the root password is unknown?

Use the following scripts, according to each equipment.

They provide a root session via port 10101.

What you did not understand there.

lol okok i just didn't see the link you provided in your previous post, now i have found it, thx  ;D
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: oewean on February 21, 2020, 08:36:00 am
New firmware released for Siglent SDG1000X Waveform generators
SDG1000X Firmware – 1.01.01.33R1B6 (Release Date 02.21.20 )
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/8977/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/8977/)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: klausES on February 21, 2020, 10:10:50 pm
Thank you.

Although I would only have understood another firmware with such a small change if "this" is a real problem.  ::)
So at least I have never even noticed a problem with bouncing buttons when operating and I have not been able to read anything about it.  :-//
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: klausES on February 24, 2020, 09:35:22 pm
Anyone tried 1.01.01.33R1B6 on their SDG1032/62X ?

Any changes (apart from the explanation with the bouncing buttons) noticed ?

Telnet access (with the trick of the "wrong" firmware) is still possible?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: klausES on February 26, 2020, 11:56:25 pm
I tested the 1.01.01.33R1B6 on my SDG1062X in some points (certainly not in all).
So far I could not find any changes and, what is important, none with negative effects.

I have not yet tested an influence on Telnet access or whether the special temporary access firmware still works.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: 4x1md on March 13, 2020, 12:59:04 pm
Sometimes I need to document the tests I perform. If I use a signal generator, I want to be able to save screenshots which show its configuration. In Linux it is fairly simple and can be done LXI Tools (see the attached screenshot). What is the way to get the screenshots from the AWG in Windows? EasyWaveX doesn't have this option. Any other ideas?

And one more question on Siglent software. Do EasyWaveX and EasyScopeX work in Linux under WineHQ? Are there any Linux alternatives?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tubularnut on March 13, 2020, 01:04:51 pm
In Windows 10 use the Snipping Tool, it’s built in.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: 4x1md on March 13, 2020, 01:54:03 pm
In Windows 10 use the Snipping Tool, it’s built in.
The question was how to get a screenshot from the AWG.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tubularnut on March 13, 2020, 02:01:43 pm
Apologies, perhaps I misunderstood, but you asked the question "What is the way to do it in Windows?"

I assumed you were remotely running the generator from a Windows PC, in which case using Snipping Tool you could take a screenshot.

Sorry I can't answer your question.



Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: spy on March 30, 2020, 06:40:34 pm
After updating to 1.01.01.33R1B5 my SDG1032X I found that it started to be very laggy with detecting and browsing USB stick. In fact it acts the same with 1.01.01.33R1. It needs quite a long time to recognize USB stick is plugged in and when it does sometimes there is a message the drive has been removed and than detected again. Browsing USB stick content is a pain, it takes a second or two until it scrolls up or down. Easiest way to replicate this issue is plug in the USB drive and get into firmware update menu.

Could someone confirm that issue with other SDG1000X device?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: 4x1md on March 30, 2020, 06:51:08 pm
Yes. At first I thought it was related to the USB stick file system. Now I think that it happens when the stick has many files on it. Did you try it with  an empty USB stick?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: spy on March 30, 2020, 09:18:31 pm
Yes I did. And in fact, when you have small number of files on USB stick (i.e only 3) browsing works OK. But when there are some directories with files inside just browsing the root folder without enterning any of them may cause umounting USB stick and pop up the message that device has been removed. It shouldn't look like that. User might not be aware of this issue and suspect USB stick is corrupted or not supported. On SDS1104X-E oscilloscope browsing works with no issues at all. I think it's a bug and should be investigated and fixed.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: klausES on March 30, 2020, 11:43:15 pm
Just tried it (SDG1062X with 1.01.01.33R1B5) with a fairly full stick (4 levels directory depth, more than 20 files within the directories)
and noticed no slowdown, no delays in browsing through the file system.

The stick is a short Sandisk USB 3.0 16 GB

Maybe it was just that they weren't exactly the same conditions as yours ?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: spy on April 02, 2020, 02:14:00 pm
I agree, conditions are different. I tried to investigate deeper and reproduce this issue and found out that total numer of files on USB stick matters. In my opinion problem starts to be annoying when there are more than 300 files. Over a 1000 and there are bizarre USB stick disconnections, generator might may stop responding to pressing buttons, removing the stick bring generator back to life, it might happen that siggen stops recognizing particular USB stick it had problems with. In that case only power cycling can fix that. It seems directory structure doesn't make any difference.

And one more thing is truncating file names on content browsing (however we can see file sizes now, that's good), which has been introduced in fw 1.01.01.30.R1 I think. Take a look at the pictures - which one is B5 or B6 version ;). Yes, we can always rename files, but why did they do that funny thing with 3 dots? The screen might be divided different way.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: klausES on April 02, 2020, 06:46:58 pm
...In my opinion problem starts to be annoying when there are more than 300 files. Over a 1000 and there are bizarre USB stick disconnections...

He will want to read the FAT data from the stick and is probably "overwhelmed" with such a number of entries (computing power and possibly still the size of the ram) ?!?

If you know that, you should reserve your own stick for it.
It is a waveform generator and not an x core with an x GHz computer...  :-X

The thing with the "truncated" filenames I did not notice at all.  :o
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on May 03, 2020, 08:50:29 pm
SDG1000X THD concerns and investigations:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1032x-harmonic-distorsion/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1032x-harmonic-distorsion/)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: mio83 on May 03, 2020, 09:07:42 pm
I confirm that my concerns were not well founded.
The THD was caused by the spectrum analyzer (set without using the proper attenuation).

My youtube channel is called "The RF noob" for a reason  :-DD

In any case I measured better THD values on my Siglent 1032X than those stated in the manual.
Also, the frequency counter works up to 250mhz (vs 200mhz in the manual).
I am very happy!
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: klausES on May 03, 2020, 09:38:33 pm
Something has been badly done publicly, it is difficult to correct it afterwards.  ::)
If you absolutely have to make a video in yt, you should first be 100% sure of what you have done before publishing.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: TurboTom on May 04, 2020, 12:32:02 pm
Something has been badly done publicly, it is difficult to correct it afterwards.  ::)
If you absolutely have to make a video in yt, you should first be 100% sure of what you have done before publishing.

That should be true for politicians (...)  8)

But since all people make mistakes once in a while, it can be quite educative to see the mistake (published) and then as a follow-up the insight what led to the mistake and the remedy. Obviously, @mio83 still needs to practice some more with the settings of his SA (RBW to lower the noise floor and the like) but he'll get there I'm sure. Aren't we all "noobs" at a certain level?  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Hexley on May 05, 2020, 09:29:14 pm
Does anyone know of a programming guide for the SDG1000X series that is later than the version hosted at the NA and EU Siglent sites? That is version PG02-E04A, and it does not agree with the instrument's behavior in some cases.

While some discrepancies are minor1, others are not. Here, for example, is what the instrument reports when set up for PWM modulation; emphasis added:

C1:MDWV STATE,ON,PWM,MDSP,SINE,SRC,INT,FRQ,333HZ,DEVI,3.115081301e-06S,DDEVI,38.3155,CARR,WVTP,PULSE,FRQ,123000HZ,AMP,2.8288V,AMPVRMS,1.4144Vrms,OFST,0V,DUTY,61.5,RISE,1.68e-08S,FALL,1.68e-08S,DLY,0

The programming guide says that the PWM parameter "DEVI" specifies percentage. "<PWM dev> := Duty cycle deviation. The unit is "%". Value depends on the carrier duty cycle .", from page 23, Section 3.5. But as shown above the instrument actually dimensions that parameter in seconds, not as a percentage.

And the parameter "DDEVI" which follows is not mentioned in the documentation at all.

I'm wondering if there might be a corrected and updated version of the programming guide available somewhere.

- Hexley

1Note, for example, that the modulation type (PWM, in this example) follows the "STATE,ON," fields in the output string shown above, whereas the example in the manual shows it coming before the STATE fields. Or note that the carrier amplitude is reported in both V and Vrms, though the documentation doesn't include Vrms in the description of the CARR,AMP field, saying only "<amplitude>:= carrier amplitude. The unit is volts, peak to peak Vpp "". These are indeed minor issues, of course, but they illustrate a few of the differences between the manual and the actual instrument.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: klausES on May 05, 2020, 09:53:09 pm
Because e.g. PWM did not come later with new firmware but was always available, it should actually be documented from the start.
Have you already looked into the programming guide of the 2000X and 6000X series ?
Probably there is no more than for the 1000X...

Maybe Tautech has a good channel to Siglent for more detailed documentation ?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on May 05, 2020, 10:02:45 pm
Because e.g. PWM did not come later with new firmware but was always available, it should actually be documented from the start.
Have you already looked into the programming guide of the 2000X and 6000X series ?
Probably there is no more than for the 1000X...

Maybe Tautech has a good channel to Siglent for more detailed documentation ?
Updated documentation has always followed feature changes brought about by new FW unfortunately and it's something I've grumbled about to high levels not long ago.
Keep checking for manual updates is all I can suggest as they do come available once they are translated from the Chinese original versions.
I look here when trying to find new versions of anything:
https://int.siglent.com/download/documents/
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Hexley on July 22, 2020, 04:33:58 pm
Does anyone know of a programming guide for the SDG1000X series that is later than the version hosted at the NA and EU Siglent sites? That is version PG02-E04A, and it does not agree with the instrument's behavior in some cases.

Any update on this? I checked https://int.siglent.com/download/documents/ to see if there was a new programming manual for the SDG100X series, but it still shows version PG02-E04A. Just thought I'd ping and see if there was anything new...
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 23, 2020, 07:36:58 am
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
i have downloaded sdg1000x ads file but i am unable to flash it to my AWG...are there any additional steps to use it?

You mean this [telnet_SDG1000X.ADS]

This you can not flash at all. You do all like FW update with this file and SDG tell that it fails... do not care...do not shut off... just telnet and do what ever inside SDG system. If you do not know what to do there inside system and how... then please study first...yes it may take time to find all or if you find right place there (https://app.box.com/s/srj3uev2s9wy78qj8d4jzi0j5ocgkmr9) can perhaps find all very detailed full instructions (it is like spring festival gift package what include all you need) what can use like blind (after you have telnet working) but be careful... it do not forgive any kind of typemistakes.   Do not try..oops...try...oops iteration... because this method may lead you to real problems and nearly like "destroy" your SDG

And seriously, do NOT downgrade to semidanger factory original or "eevblog version" FW ....01P22 even if you find it somewhere because if bad happen and it goes to boot problem... it do not support USB recovery method.
does anyone tried the mod SDG1000X-MOD-Part-II in order to change maximum frequencies of waveforms. I can't remount root partition in rw to change NSP_limit_data.xml. I have error on:
/ # mount -o remount,rw /
/ # cd /usr/bin/siglent/config
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Orange on August 23, 2020, 09:03:24 am
mount -o remount,rw /dev/ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
or
mount -o remount,rw /dev/ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/config
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 23, 2020, 09:09:59 am
But NSP_limit_data.xml is under config and not under firmware0.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on August 23, 2020, 11:58:17 am
But NSP_limit_data.xml is under config and not under firmware0.

You have full instructions in document "SDG1000X Modification instructions V33R1"  what you have from zip package where is included exactly all. All commands, all what you need, even after pdf there is also plain txt file for use copypaste for commands. There is also one suitable terminal software and all other things needed.  Why you did not read it *). You think that first muscle and after then brain. I recommend to do just opposite.

Read it all, and read it again because you have now jumped over important row. It is better to read all instructions because there is also warnings what must not adjust and if there is not told some adjustment, then do not it just like "try this and try that and after then ...oops" method.
*)And  I know you have not read it because you ask this question here.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 23, 2020, 12:25:40 pm
mount -o remount,rw /dev/ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
or
mount -o remount,rw /dev/ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/config

/usr/bin/siglent/config

it is not a mount point
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 23, 2020, 12:30:25 pm
But NSP_limit_data.xml is under config and not under firmware0.

You have full instructions in document "SDG1000X Modification instructions V33R1"  what you have from zip package where is included exactly all. All commands, all what you need, even after pdf there is also plain txt file for use copypaste for commands. There is also one suitable terminal software and all other things needed.  Why you did not read it *). You think that first muscle and after then brain. I recommend to do just opposite.

Read it all, and read it again because you have now jumped over important row. Yes @Orange give just also right one... but is it still better to read all instructions because there is also warnings what must not adjust and if there is not told some adjustment, then do not it just like "try this and try that and after then ...oops" method.
*)And  I know you have not read it because you ask this question here.

Thank you,
wouldn't it have been easier to tell me what the mistake is than to review my possible way of operating?
I have already changed the version to SDG1062X.
The only difference is the firmware which is currently 1.01.01.33R1B6: is this the problem?
I think that in a forum we should help ourselves rather than being pedantic!

current mount points are:
rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
ubi0: rootfs on / type ubifs (ro, relatime)
none on / tmp type tmpfs (rw, relatime)
proc on / proc type proc (rw, relatime)
sysfs on / sys type sysfs (rw, relatime)
mdev on / dev type tmpfs (rw, relatime)
devpts on / dev / pts type devpts (rw, relatime, mode = 600)
none on / sys / kernel / debug type debugfs (rw, relatime)
ubi1_0 on / usr / bin / siglent / usr type ubifs (rw, relatime)
ubi2_0 on / usr / bin / siglent / firmdata0 type ubifs (ro, relatime)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on August 23, 2020, 12:45:20 pm
But NSP_limit_data.xml is under config and not under firmware0.

You have full instructions in document "SDG1000X Modification instructions V33R1"  what you have from zip package where is included exactly all. All commands, all what you need, even after pdf there is also plain txt file for use copypaste for commands. There is also one suitable terminal software and all other things needed.  Why you did not read it *). You think that first muscle and after then brain. I recommend to do just opposite.

Read it all, and read it again because you have now jumped over important row. Yes @Orange give just also right one... but is it still better to read all instructions because there is also warnings what must not adjust and if there is not told some adjustment, then do not it just like "try this and try that and after then ...oops" method.
*)And  I know you have not read it because you ask this question here.

Thank you,
wouldn't it have been easier to tell me what the mistake is than to review my possible way of operating?
I have already changed the version to SDG1062X.
The only difference is the firmware which is currently 1.01.01.33R1B6: is this the problem?
I think that in a forum we should help ourselves rather than being pedantic!

current mount points are:
rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
ubi0: rootfs on / type ubifs (ro, relatime)
none on / tmp type tmpfs (rw, relatime)
proc on / proc type proc (rw, relatime)
sysfs on / sys type sysfs (rw, relatime)
mdev on / dev type tmpfs (rw, relatime)
devpts on / dev / pts type devpts (rw, relatime, mode = 600)
none on / sys / kernel / debug type debugfs (rw, relatime)
ubi1_0 on / usr / bin / siglent / usr type ubifs (rw, relatime)
ubi2_0 on / usr / bin / siglent / firmdata0 type ubifs (ro, relatime)

Is it so that exactly this blue (without any extra) do not work anymore?
mount -o remount,rw  ETA corr, of course: mount -o remount,rw /

(and then go to right folder)

I am thousands of km far from my workshop and can not check/test anything and not even sure know when can return, if can..
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 23, 2020, 01:11:33 pm
But NSP_limit_data.xml is under config and not under firmware0.

You have full instructions in document "SDG1000X Modification instructions V33R1"  what you have from zip package where is included exactly all. All commands, all what you need, even after pdf there is also plain txt file for use copypaste for commands. There is also one suitable terminal software and all other things needed.  Why you did not read it *). You think that first muscle and after then brain. I recommend to do just opposite.

Read it all, and read it again because you have now jumped over important row. Yes @Orange give just also right one... but is it still better to read all instructions because there is also warnings what must not adjust and if there is not told some adjustment, then do not it just like "try this and try that and after then ...oops" method.
*)And  I know you have not read it because you ask this question here.

Thank you,
wouldn't it have been easier to tell me what the mistake is than to review my possible way of operating?
I have already changed the version to SDG1062X.
The only difference is the firmware which is currently 1.01.01.33R1B6: is this the problem?
I think that in a forum we should help ourselves rather than being pedantic!

current mount points are:
rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
ubi0: rootfs on / type ubifs (ro, relatime)
none on / tmp type tmpfs (rw, relatime)
proc on / proc type proc (rw, relatime)
sysfs on / sys type sysfs (rw, relatime)
mdev on / dev type tmpfs (rw, relatime)
devpts on / dev / pts type devpts (rw, relatime, mode = 600)
none on / sys / kernel / debug type debugfs (rw, relatime)
ubi1_0 on / usr / bin / siglent / usr type ubifs (rw, relatime)
ubi2_0 on / usr / bin / siglent / firmdata0 type ubifs (ro, relatime)

Is it so that this do not work anymore?
mount -o remount,rw

(and then go to right folder)

I am thousands of km far from my workshop and can not check/test anything and not even sure know when can return, if can..

Not a problem.
You say:
mount -o remount,rw
but I think you missed the mount point /

so I try:
mount -o remount,rw /
and I receive this message:
mount: mounting ubi0:rootfs on / failed: Bad message

Iattached dmesg file: it could be an error in filesystem
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 23, 2020, 01:19:32 pm
I have not made any attempt other than what is reported in the document.
Then I switched off it and after few seconds powered on, but with the usb key inserted.
Now it is freezed on logo
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 23, 2020, 01:30:38 pm
I have not made any attempt other than what is reported in the document.
Then I switched off it and after few seconds powered on, but with the usb key inserted.
Now it is freezed on logo
is there any recovery? or I have to do an RMA?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on August 23, 2020, 01:49:09 pm
But NSP_limit_data.xml is under config and not under firmware0.

You have full instructions in document "SDG1000X Modification instructions V33R1"  what you have from zip package where is included exactly all. All commands, all what you need, even after pdf there is also plain txt file for use copypaste for commands. There is also one suitable terminal software and all other things needed.  Why you did not read it *). You think that first muscle and after then brain. I recommend to do just opposite.

Read it all, and read it again because you have now jumped over important row. Yes @Orange give just also right one... but is it still better to read all instructions because there is also warnings what must not adjust and if there is not told some adjustment, then do not it just like "try this and try that and after then ...oops" method.
*)And  I know you have not read it because you ask this question here.

Thank you,
wouldn't it have been easier to tell me what the mistake is than to review my possible way of operating?
I have already changed the version to SDG1062X.
The only difference is the firmware which is currently 1.01.01.33R1B6: is this the problem?
I think that in a forum we should help ourselves rather than being pedantic!

current mount points are:
rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
ubi0: rootfs on / type ubifs (ro, relatime)
none on / tmp type tmpfs (rw, relatime)
proc on / proc type proc (rw, relatime)
sysfs on / sys type sysfs (rw, relatime)
mdev on / dev type tmpfs (rw, relatime)
devpts on / dev / pts type devpts (rw, relatime, mode = 600)
none on / sys / kernel / debug type debugfs (rw, relatime)
ubi1_0 on / usr / bin / siglent / usr type ubifs (rw, relatime)
ubi2_0 on / usr / bin / siglent / firmdata0 type ubifs (ro, relatime)

Is it so that this do not work anymore?
mount -o remount,rw

(and then go to right folder)

I am thousands of km far from my workshop and can not check/test anything and not even sure know when can return, if can..

Not a problem.
You say:
mount -o remount,rw
but I think you missed the mount point /

so I try:
mount -o remount,rw /
and I receive this message:
mount: mounting ubi0:rootfs on / failed: Bad message

Iattached dmesg file: it could be an error in filesystem

Oups... of course sloppy writer me...  corrected now.
But how to go forward it need now some other peoples help who have access to SDG with latest FW or can find reason due to knowledge and or experience.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 23, 2020, 01:54:23 pm
But NSP_limit_data.xml is under config and not under firmware0.

You have full instructions in document "SDG1000X Modification instructions V33R1"  what you have from zip package where is included exactly all. All commands, all what you need, even after pdf there is also plain txt file for use copypaste for commands. There is also one suitable terminal software and all other things needed.  Why you did not read it *). You think that first muscle and after then brain. I recommend to do just opposite.

Read it all, and read it again because you have now jumped over important row. Yes @Orange give just also right one... but is it still better to read all instructions because there is also warnings what must not adjust and if there is not told some adjustment, then do not it just like "try this and try that and after then ...oops" method.
*)And  I know you have not read it because you ask this question here.

Thank you,
wouldn't it have been easier to tell me what the mistake is than to review my possible way of operating?
I have already changed the version to SDG1062X.
The only difference is the firmware which is currently 1.01.01.33R1B6: is this the problem?
I think that in a forum we should help ourselves rather than being pedantic!

current mount points are:
rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
ubi0: rootfs on / type ubifs (ro, relatime)
none on / tmp type tmpfs (rw, relatime)
proc on / proc type proc (rw, relatime)
sysfs on / sys type sysfs (rw, relatime)
mdev on / dev type tmpfs (rw, relatime)
devpts on / dev / pts type devpts (rw, relatime, mode = 600)
none on / sys / kernel / debug type debugfs (rw, relatime)
ubi1_0 on / usr / bin / siglent / usr type ubifs (rw, relatime)
ubi2_0 on / usr / bin / siglent / firmdata0 type ubifs (ro, relatime)

Is it so that this do not work anymore?
mount -o remount,rw

(and then go to right folder)

I am thousands of km far from my workshop and can not check/test anything and not even sure know when can return, if can..

Not a problem.
You say:
mount -o remount,rw
but I think you missed the mount point /

so I try:
mount -o remount,rw /
and I receive this message:
mount: mounting ubi0:rootfs on / failed: Bad message

Iattached dmesg file: it could be an error in filesystem

Oups... of course sloppy writer me...  corrected now.
But how to go forward it need now some other peoples help who have access to SDG with latest FW or can find reason due to knowledge and or experience.
I don't know if the command without / it is the problem, but now it is freezed on logo!
is there any procedure to recovery it?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on August 23, 2020, 02:11:21 pm
I have not made any attempt other than what is reported in the document.
Then I switched off it and after few seconds powered on, but with the usb key inserted.
Now it is freezed on logo
is there any recovery? or I have to do an RMA?

This OLD 1.01.01.22R5 is first FW version what support USB recovery so your version of course have. I do not have this file but I think some here may have. Example perhaps @Tautech who have "many  things"

Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 23, 2020, 02:16:25 pm
Thank you, I am happy it supports USB recovery
I wrote to Tautech.
What do you think?
what was the problem?
I read about SDG800 with this problem and it was hardware
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Orange on August 23, 2020, 02:25:19 pm
I have not made any attempt other than what is reported in the document.
Then I switched off it and after few seconds powered on, but with the usb key inserted.
Now it is freezed on logo

Sounds familiar if you boot with the telnet ads inserted. It seems to bricks instruments.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 23, 2020, 02:28:38 pm
I have not made any attempt other than what is reported in the document.
Then I switched off it and after few seconds powered on, but with the usb key inserted.
Now it is freezed on logo

Sounds familiar if you boot with the telnet ads inserted. It seems to bricks instruments.
But the ads file is not in the root
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on August 23, 2020, 08:46:29 pm
Thank you, I am happy it supports USB recovery
I wrote to Tautech.
What do you think?
Got your message.
You broke your SDG1kX playing with its file system but it can be recovered.
Quote
what was the problem?
I read about SDG800 with this problem and it was hardware
Different issue, we can recover all SDG800 now.

Contact info-eu@siglent.com and ask them nicely for the SDG1032X recovery package.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 25, 2020, 08:35:36 pm
Thank you, I am happy it supports USB recovery
I wrote to Tautech.
What do you think?
Got your message.
You broke your SDG1kX playing with its file system but it can be recovered.
Quote
what was the problem?
I read about SDG800 with this problem and it was hardware
Different issue, we can recover all SDG800 now.

Contact info-eu@siglent.com and ask them nicely for the SDG1032X recovery package.

Probably there was a problem on file system before the hack.
After recovery sent by Siglent it works already fine.
It is still 1062X
And now remount of root parition works fine also with the latest firmware
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on August 26, 2020, 03:08:52 am

Probably there was a problem on file system before the hack.
After recovery sent by Siglent it works already fine.


Probably there was problem in NAND and it hit this when some changes made. But this we do not now know. But again it rise question in my mind...

Last years we have seen repeatedly  "rotten NAND" problems and independent of brand as can also see in many Keysight cases...

Years after years same problems with NANDs just in Test and Measurements instruments and still we continue knocking heads like mad to wall in 2020 and continuing. Is it wise.

Continuously we hear boot stuck problems ...boot and during boot crash and reason - somehow rotten NAND.
All rise hands up and "this is normal"...
      ... who have made it as "new normal"?

Solution from manufacturers is, we can make recovery. Oh well yes.

But I can ask:
Why auto recovery is not already included inside system, just external reliable timer and when boot fails it do automatic recovery for weak up back to life. It is not even difficult or expensive.


Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 26, 2020, 12:28:23 pm
A stupid question:
SDG1032X and SDG1062X have different square/rectangle wave circuit?
what are the differences between 1032 (transformed into 1062) and the original 1062?
I notice that the square wave at 60 MHz is not very square in 1032 (-> 1062); is it the same as the 1062?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tv84 on August 26, 2020, 01:20:57 pm
what are the differences between 1032 (transformed into 1062) and the original 1062?

A sticker on the front panel that says "1032".
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tv84 on August 26, 2020, 01:29:21 pm
Why auto recovery is not already included inside system, just external reliable timer and when boot fails it do automatic recovery for weak up back to life. It is not even difficult or expensive.

Agree. But many of the current releases already include some degree of resilience in NAND terms.

The old models, which hadn't NAND resilience by design, can be a bit riskier to correct. In a limit situation you need a bootloader upgrade and, if that upgrade goes bad... you (vendor) get yourself in a bigger problem.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 26, 2020, 01:51:53 pm
[attach=1][attachimg=1]
what are the differences between 1032 (transformed into 1062) and the original 1062?

A sticker on the front panel that says "1032".
wow!  :o
I have tried with the digital oscilloscope with 500MHz BW and the square wave shape at 30MHz is quite good but at 60MHz it is not that good!
So I was convinced that the output circuit that generates the square wave was different.
This is square wave @ 60 MHz
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on August 26, 2020, 07:15:08 pm
This is square wave @ 60 MHz

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=1054666;image)
Yes, as expected without 50 ohm termination.  ;)

FYI, SDG output is always 50 ohm impedance regardless of the output setting HiZ or 50 ohm as this only changes the output level to match the load.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 26, 2020, 07:17:29 pm
yes I discovered that hiZ changes only value of voltage.
I used a 50 Ohm termination
something escapes me.
I have 50 termination before the scope.
If I set HiZ I see the previous image.
If I set 50 Ohm output I see the following image
But to view the change I have to switch off and on agaim th SDG (after change of output impedence)[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on August 26, 2020, 07:23:43 pm
yes I discovered that hiZ changes only value of voltage.
I used a 50 Ohm termination
:-//
See last image in this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1449433/#msg1449433 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1449433/#msg1449433)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 26, 2020, 08:03:10 pm
yes I discovered that hiZ changes only value of voltage.
I used a 50 Ohm termination
:-//
See last image in this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1449433/#msg1449433 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1449433/#msg1449433)
something is wrong in what I'm doing and I don't understand what!
Now also with 50 Ohm termination I see the first waveform

Trying also at 1 MHz the waveform is not good: I see ringing...
could be possible that termination is not good or the cable?
something is changed now
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on August 27, 2020, 08:50:50 am
Good quality coaxial, example  M17/84-RG223 or similar with good quality Suhner connectors and good quality Tektronix 50ohm FeedThru terminator in scope input. Most frustrating thing in lab is bad cables, bad connectors bad crap this and that. They come expensive...
Just for this purpose here it can do well with nearly all normal good quality 50 ohm  rf coax.

One of most hated things are poor quality BNC connectors. 

But back to things here.
Here is typical one examples how SDG1000X Square looks.
In these old images used scope was SDS1202X-E
Yes cable was, if I remember right my normally used some M17/84-RG223 etc and some original Tek feedthru terminator.



If Siglent do not give roughly this result, something is wrong in Scope, Signal path or generator itself

(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDG1000X/SDG1032X-Square-1Vpp-30MHz-50ohm.png)

30 MHz  My own test. SDG1032X/62X



(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDG1000X/SDG1032Xm-Square-1Vpp-60MHz-50ohm.png)

60 MHz  My own test. SDG1032X/62X



Then just for fun Rigol DS1032Z,  25MHz, 50ohm termination and scope 100MHz Rigol (not my test)
Do not take seriously, this is not for any competition. Just for keep things somehow relative in price class.

(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDG1000X/Rigol-DG1032Z-Square-25MHz-50ohm-1Vpp.png)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 27, 2020, 09:13:40 am
Thank you
your explanation was very comprehensive.
The only thing that I don't explain is why leaving the hardware set up unchanged (cable, termination and oscilloscope) the displayed waveform changes when I change the load setting of the SDG (50 vs HI-imp).
I am convinced that it should be the same waveform, but only the indication of Vpp should change.
In any case I do other tests and update you.
Thanks to the availability
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 27, 2020, 02:51:01 pm
I made some tests:
I think (and I hope)  there is a bug in the firmware:
When it is in square wave and you switch off the channel, change setting of load (50 -> Hiz) and switch on the channel I have distorsion.
After that I switch off the channel, change setting of load (Hiz -> 50) and switch on the channel I have not distorsion.
If I set load from 50 to 60 it is ok, if I set load setting > 61 then I have distorsion.

It seems that when I get the distortion of the square wave another internal relay is also activated which does not eliminate the low pass filter used for the sinusoidal signal.
You can clearly hear the switching of an additional relay, when you set the different impedance and turn the channel off and on; when the impedance is not changed and the channel is switched off and on, the sound of the relays is lower.
Other times doing different steps it seems to freeze and selecting the square wave always comes out distorted.
Can anyone try his generator?
The fw is 1.01.01.33R1B6.
The sequence is:
- square wave 30 MHz 1 Vpp
- load 50 Ohm
- channel on -> good square wave
- channel off
- load Hiz
- channel on -> distorted square wave
- channel off
- load 50 Ohm
- channel on -> good square wave
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Orange on August 27, 2020, 03:20:30 pm
There is definitely a difference.
I would say it's better (faster rise time) with HiZ
See pictures,

BTW taken with an Agilent MSO7054, 50 ohm terminated

This is on a real 1062, not an hacked 1032  :)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tubularnut on August 27, 2020, 03:22:09 pm
Can anyone try his generator?
The fw is 1.01.01.33R1B6.
The sequence is:
- square wave 30 MHz 1 Vpp
- load 50 Ohm
- channel on -> good square wave
- channel off
- load Hiz
- channel on -> distorted square wave
- channel off
- load 50 Ohm
- channel on -> good square wave

I'll give it a go on my real 1062 when I get home in a few hours.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 27, 2020, 03:32:41 pm
There is definitely a difference.
I would say it's better (faster rise time) with HiZ
See pictures,

BTW taken with an Agilent MSO7054, 50 ohm terminated

This is on a real 1062, not an hacked 1032  :)
You got the same behavior I get.
90% of the time it is systematic, other times it stops with the distorted waveform.
If you try 60 MHz the difference is evident and the distortion is very bad!
Could you try?
thank you
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Hexley on August 27, 2020, 04:00:04 pm
There is definitely a difference.
I would say it's better (faster rise time) with HiZ
See pictures,

BTW taken with an Agilent MSO7054, 50 ohm terminated

This is on a real 1062, not an hacked 1032  :)
You got the same behavior I get.
90% of the time it is systematic, other times it stops with the distorted waveform.
If you try 60 MHz the difference is evident and the distortion is very bad!
Could you try?
thank you

Here is a test of both 30MHz and 60 MHz. The generator is an upgraded SDG1062X (started life as as SDG1032X). The scope is a 500 MHz-modified DSOX3024A.

[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3][attachimg=4]
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Orange on August 27, 2020, 04:02:17 pm
The thing is that at 60MHz the ringing of the LPF in the generator is showing its effect. It is a dilemma you have to face.

I use my generator for a lot of RF work, and have it always set to 50Ohms. This gives me the dBm option. And I use it mostly in sine mode.
However I now see that if you want to use the Square wave, it is better to use it in HiZ mode, you get better rise time and also higher amplitude.

Still, this thing is not really performing at this high frequency. The more expensive SDS2042X is even worse in rise time, and only goes to 25MHz....
Oh I tested also a hacked 1032X, I get the same pictures as on my 1062X



 
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 27, 2020, 07:11:12 pm
Since I'm not the only one having this behavior, I think it's not a hardware defect.
I am more convinced it may be a firmware bug also because now I can no longer generate the distortion, even by doing the procedure listed by me.
Now the problem occurs both in Hiz and 50 exceeding the threshold of 1Vpp at 50 Ohm.
I don't know now  :-\
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 27, 2020, 08:38:34 pm
Since I'm not the only one having this behavior, I think it's not a hardware defect.
I am more convinced it may be a firmware bug also because now I can no longer generate the distortion, even by doing the procedure listed by me.
Now the problem occurs both in Hiz and 50 exceeding the threshold of 1Vpp at 50 Ohm.
I don't know now  :-\

I understand what the reason is!
The change in load setting only results in coincidence.
The real reason why the square wave sometimes comes out "clean" or distorted is due to the voltage range that the generator uses.
In fact, exceeding the value of 1Vpp by 1 mV even with load set at 50 Ohm, distortion occurs.
If you set the output to 995 Vpp 50 Ohm and then set Hiz there is no distortion.
Obviously, the variation of the waveform (distortion) due to the change in gain of the output stage occurs for the threshold value of 1 Vpp and via software when the output is activated there is a different setting of the output gain due to different approximations in the calculations.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on August 27, 2020, 09:31:01 pm
Since I'm not the only one having this behavior, I think it's not a hardware defect.
I am more convinced it may be a firmware bug also because now I can no longer generate the distortion, even by doing the procedure listed by me.
Now the problem occurs both in Hiz and 50 exceeding the threshold of 1Vpp at 50 Ohm.
I don't know now  :-\

I understand what the reason is!
The change in load setting only results in coincidence.
The real reason why the square wave sometimes comes out "clean" or distorted is due to the voltage range that the generator uses.
In fact, exceeding the value of 1Vpp by 1 mV even with load set at 50 Ohm, distortion occurs.
If you set the output to 995 Vpp 50 Ohm and then set Hiz there is no distortion.
Obviously, the variation of the waveform (distortion) due to the change in gain of the output stage occurs for the threshold value of 1 Vpp and via software when the output is activated there is a different setting of the output gain due to different approximations in the calculations.
Hmm.
That reasoning doesn't align with the datasheet spec.

Can you try again after returning your unit to Default settings ?
Utility>System>Set to Default
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Hexley on August 27, 2020, 11:16:12 pm
This behavior shows up in some other use cases.

First, set up the instrument to drive an oscilloscope with 50 ohm input termination.

Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on August 28, 2020, 03:24:19 am
Since I'm not the only one having this behavior, I think it's not a hardware defect.
I am more convinced it may be a firmware bug also because now I can no longer generate the distortion, even by doing the procedure listed by me.
Now the problem occurs both in Hiz and 50 exceeding the threshold of 1Vpp at 50 Ohm.
I don't know now  :-\

I understand what the reason is!
The change in load setting only results in coincidence.
The real reason why the square wave sometimes comes out "clean" or distorted is due to the voltage range that the generator uses.
In fact, exceeding the value of 1Vpp by 1 mV even with load set at 50 Ohm, distortion occurs.
If you set the output to 995 Vpp 50 Ohm and then set Hiz there is no distortion.
Obviously, the variation of the waveform (distortion) due to the change in gain of the output stage occurs for the threshold value of 1 Vpp and via software when the output is activated there is a different setting of the output gain due to different approximations in the calculations.

Independent of load value selected (what can be what ever between 50 ohm to HiZ) we need just think final amplifier level. There is small changes when it is working in different output voltage bands. I do not remember these thresholds where system change level band. Between these ranges there is small differences in edge response. I have tested it and it is nominal to this and not failure/error. As oscilloscopes also generators result is sum of errors. There is not ideal machines instead of school books.
Now it depends of course what kind of compromises tghere have done in circuit. All can do nearly - nearly - perfect instrument if have infinite amount of bank notes for it. Even I can. Question is how cheap can done instrument what still is acceptable in performance in its price segment.
 
With all these anomalies it well meet its specs. What other it need meet.

After then users use these and when users use they add own errors when they measure these with not ideal scope and signal connected with not ideal matching. Also SDG output true impedance, what is ALWAYS nominal 50ohm DC impedance +/- something and after then some reactances.

Just need understand real practice and reality. All can be better .. but...

Now sum together all error marginals (scope, sdg, signal pathway between, in your known environment) and make worst case calculus and best case calculus and for all parameters and think between these is "window" where inside need stay.  After then look if your result is inside this "window". if this match without breaking window borders all is ok. If still not ok, then you have wrong instruments for your needs. Period. Real world is not perfect.

But also then, if results do not stay inside this previously used "window" thebn need be alarmed and then need look what is out of order and perhaps need repair etc.

Remember, what ever External Load set in SDG settings its output impedance do not change.
So if select

Case 1. 50ohm and set voltage level out example 1Vpp it is 1Vpp  IF external load is perfectly 50ohm and only then. 
Case 2.  if then set HiZ and also external load is HiZ and set output is 1V, it is 1V IF external load is perfectly HiZ..

But in Case 1. SDG internal end aplifier output is 2V
and in Case 2. SDG internal end amplifier output is 1V 

But in both cases, using right Load, user see with oscilloscope this 1V.

Now all understand that SDG works with different internal output voiltage and this may lead to bit different square or other wave shape. Specially if these two voltages are in differen internal voltage band  (you can listen these relays change)

And as just told, it is NOT perfect ideal machine. So there is differences and no need wonder. Least I do not wonder. Even when I think it can do perhaps better without high rise in retail price.
But products must also be in its performance / price segment and not competite example with same manufacturer more expensive segment products, what it partially now done,  if we look some small part of functions separately. Example more expensive SDG2000X can not do this kind of square wave. It do not at all have this.
 
Of course SDG1000X can not what many things SDG2kX can but square/rectangle it beat it.

It was also small surprise Siglent add TrueArb feature tiny version to SDG1000X just in one previous FW update. 
Also for users who use it as rf generator they time ago change level handling when AM modulation. Now if you turn AM mod on or off or change modulation depth it keep constant carrier level as all serious conventional rf generators have done tens of years. 
Many things can do inside FW but some are in HW circuit and thats it. Just like this small changes in square shape over whole voltage range. it change and it need accept. If it is broken, out of normal, then need repair or factory cal depending problem.

Times ago I have very expensive (and heavy, made like tank and inside pure gold more than little) HP programmable pulse generator.  And also its pulse edge change some amount when pulse level change and more when it move to some next level voltage band. Also overshoot change some amount and sure it was not due my scope. Also signal pathway from generator to scope was best possible Huber Suhner cable what short cable price is perhaps ten of SDG1000X.  But this expensive generator pulse was still inside specs. Not at all ideal perfect but, inside specs.  If I try use grade C specs instrument for grade B needs I am wrong not instruments. Opposite way is  -  expensive but easy.


Important is now just look if OP SDG is normal ok or if it have problem or if user have problem in his thinking or his other things used for testings. Nearly all is possible.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: gianluigi on August 28, 2020, 05:50:34 am
you are completely right.
Before now I did not know this model and was perplexed by the behavior of the load setup change. Since the instrument is new, I thought it was faulty but obviously the reason is the change in the gain range of the output stage.
Thanks for your support.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on August 28, 2020, 06:17:46 am
you are completely right.
Before now I did not know this model and was perplexed by the behavior of the load setup change. Since the instrument is new, I thought it was faulty but obviously the reason is the change in the gain range of the output stage.
Thanks for your support.

Just this what you have done is very important part to do when who ever get some new instrument. It is important, many times used, phrase "Know your instrument" for successful using in many kind of variable purposes. It is important to know limits and performance with  some own selfmade tests etc, in different situations so that instrument can not pull user to more or less hidden trap. ;)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Johnny B Good on October 01, 2020, 12:00:53 am
you are completely right.
Before now I did not know this model and was perplexed by the behavior of the load setup change. Since the instrument is new, I thought it was faulty but obviously the reason is the change in the gain range of the output stage.
Thanks for your support.

Just this what you have done is very important part to do when who ever get some new instrument. It is important, many times used, phrase "Know your instrument" for successful using in many kind of variable purposes. It is important to know limits and performance with  some own selfmade tests etc, in different situations so that instrument can not pull user to more or less hidden trap. ;)

 I couldn't agree more!  :) Indeed, I'd made this very point in the long running FY6600 thread some time back (and, it turns out, not without good reason).

 Having recently purchased a SDG1032X from Telonic Instruments Ltd, I've made the rather surprising discovery that the humble FY6600-60M I'd bought almost two years ago, is in many ways superior to this Siglent generator (especially now that it has a 10MHz CQE branded - as used by Symmetricom - OCXO, stable to within +/- 100ppt, which can be injection locked to an external 10MHz reference).

 As is typically the case with published specifications, the usual "lying by omission" (the favoured tactic of the ad man) means you have to probe very deep to elicit, for example, that the quoted 300ns jitter figure is an rms value rather than a pk-pk one which typically corresponds to a pk-pk value around the 800 to 900ns mark which compares very unfavourably against the observed 200 to 250ns pk-pk jitter on sine and Sinc pulse waveforms generated by the FY6600. Also, the Sinc pulse generated by the Siglent at the 6MHz limit wriggles and squirms to the point of being almost completely unusable versus that of the Feeltech which shows only the slightest hint of this effect at 12MHz (watch the attached movie files depicting this effect and that of the Flicker noise jitter from its internal reference clock).

 With only 8 digits of frequency display resolution, I haven't found any way to offset a 10MHz signal by Siglent's promised 1uHz resolution, unlike the FY6600's (verified) promise of such resolution of 1uHz over the full DC to 60MHz frequency range of the FY6600-60M model courtesy of the 14 digit resolution display which seems OTT until you upgrade to an OCXO with an external reference clock optional extra (injection locked rather than phase locked in my case) with the potential to let you meaningfully utilise all 14 of those digits of precision.

 I chose the SDG1000X over the more expensive SDG2000X series simply on account of its superior square wave performance since this seemed more useful for my needs but, having witnessed the surprising limitations and the severe flicker noise like jitter on its internal clock reference which clears up when you use an external 10MHz reference, I'm now beginning to regret not spending the extra cash on an SDG2042X.

 I don't expect miracles of stability and accuracy out of the cheap 50ppm smd XO chip Siglent had decided to inflict upon their SDG1000X models since the external clock reference socket takes care of that requirement assuming the +1.43mHz offset at 10MHz isn't an issue.

 That, BTW, corresponds to a gain of one second per 45 years. That may seem pretty good but it's shite compared to the minuscule rounding error in that FY6600's DDS processing which requires some 1.8 million years to accumulate a one second error (well over 4 orders of magnitude more accurate!).


 I'm guessing that bogus +1.43mHz offset must have been due to my triggering from the RFS waveform at that time. It isn't locked to anything (natch. :) ) and so must have been adrift of the GPSDO by -1.43mH at the time - it isn't mounted into an enclosure where I can stabilise the baseplate temperature (and ultimately compensate for barometric pressure changes) to make it worth adjusting it to within 50uHz again.

 Anyway, the use of a cheap smd XO and the horrible Flicker noise like jitter leaves me wondering whether this a systemic issue that's simply gone unnoticed or just a case of bad luck on my part for landing up with a "Lemon" that just happened to be afflicted by a faulty XO chip.

 I've attached a couple of short movie clips you should find particularly interesting, demonstrating the clock jitter and the shape shifting Sinc pulse with a picture showing the required +11 or 12 Hz offset to get within one Hz of the RFS and GPSDO reference frequencies in order to reveal the internal clock jitter.

 CH1 shows the 10MHz sine output from the FY6600's second channel which is locked to the GPSDO. This is the trigger source. CH2 displays the sine wave output from the SDG1032X. CH3 is showing the free running RFS with CH4 displaying the FY6600's 10MHz Sinc pulse on its second channel (MVI_3031.mkv - 5 second clip).

 In the second, 1 minute long movie clip (MVI_3039.mkv), I've turned the odd channels off to de-clutter the display. The Sinc pulse that isn't wriggling is the 12MHz FY6600 one, the other 6MHz Sinc pulse comes from the SDG1032X. ::)

============================================================================================
[EDIT 2020-10-04]

 I've just repeated that last test and can no longer recreate that "squirmy" effect on the Sinc pulse  :wtf: The only thing I did notice was a rather dramatic drop in amplitude when setting it to the 6MHz maximum frequency limit.

============================================================================================
 So, my question is this:- Is the clock jitter a faulty smd XO chip or the result of Siglent trying to reduce their BoM costs by using the cheapest of smd XOs they could lay their hands on with (just like Feeltech) no consideration for the consequences?

 It would be interesting to see whether this jitter effect afflicts all SDG1000Xs in general or whether it's merely an unfortunate manufacturing defect in the unit that was shipped out to me.

Regards, John
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Johnny B Good on October 01, 2020, 01:06:33 am
Here's another 20 seconds movie clip using a 10MHz square wave from the SDG1032X demonstrating the weird jitter from its internal frequency reference clock, plus a picture of the generators' settings.

 John
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: tautech on October 10, 2020, 08:34:32 pm
Question on Discord WRT adding data bits onto a waveform.
SDG1032X ch1 2V p-p 50 Hz sinewave.
ch2 3V p-p 200us pulse.
Phases locked.

Wave Combine result:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/?action=dlattach;attach=1086638)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Johnny B Good on October 22, 2020, 10:57:11 pm
you are completely right.
Before now I did not know this model and was perplexed by the behavior of the load setup change. Since the instrument is new, I thought it was faulty but obviously the reason is the change in the gain range of the output stage.
Thanks for your support.


Just this what you have done is very important part to do when who ever get some new instrument. It is important, many times used, phrase "Know your instrument" for successful using in many kind of variable purposes. It is important to know limits and performance with  some own selfmade tests etc, in different situations so that instrument can not pull user to more or less hidden trap. ;)


 I couldn't agree more!  :) Indeed, I'd made this very point in the long running FY6600 thread some time back (and, it turns out, not without good reason).

 Having recently purchased a SDG1032X from Telonic Instruments Ltd, I've made the rather surprising discovery that the humble FY6600-60M I'd bought almost two years ago, is in many ways superior to this Siglent generator (especially now that it has a 10MHz CQE branded - as used by Symmetricom - OCXO, stable to within +/- 100ppt, which can be injection locked to an external 10MHz reference).

 As is typically the case with published specifications, the usual "lying by omission" (the favoured tactic of the ad man) means you have to probe very deep to elicit, for example, that the quoted 300ns jitter figure is an rms value rather than a pk-pk one which typically corresponds to a pk-pk value around the 800 to 900ns mark which compares very unfavourably against the observed 200 to 250ns pk-pk jitter on sine and Sinc pulse waveforms generated by the FY6600. Also, the Sinc pulse generated by the Siglent at the 6MHz limit wriggles and squirms to the point of being almost completely unusable versus that of the Feeltech which shows only the slightest hint of this effect at 12MHz (watch the attached movie files depicting this effect and that of the Flicker noise jitter from its internal reference clock).

 With only 8 digits of frequency display resolution, I haven't found any way to offset a 10MHz signal by Siglent's promised 1uHz resolution, unlike the FY6600's (verified) promise of such resolution of 1uHz over the full DC to 60MHz frequency range of the FY6600-60M model courtesy of the 14 digit resolution display which seems OTT until you upgrade to an OCXO with an external reference clock optional extra (injection locked rather than phase locked in my case) with the potential to let you meaningfully utilise all 14 of those digits of precision.

 I chose the SDG1000X over the more expensive SDG2000X series simply on account of its superior square wave performance since this seemed more useful for my needs but, having witnessed the surprising limitations and the severe flicker noise like jitter on its internal clock reference which clears up when you use an external 10MHz reference, I'm now beginning to regret not spending the extra cash on an SDG2042X.

 I don't expect miracles of stability and accuracy out of the cheap 50ppm smd XO chip Siglent had decided to inflict upon their SDG1000X models since the external clock reference socket takes care of that requirement assuming the +1.43mHz offset at 10MHz isn't an issue.

 That, BTW, corresponds to a gain of one second per 45 years. That may seem pretty good but it's shite compared to the minuscule rounding error in that FY6600's DDS processing which requires some 1.8 million years to accumulate a one second error (well over 4 orders of magnitude more accurate!).


 I'm guessing that bogus +1.43mHz offset must have been due to my triggering from the RFS waveform at that time. It isn't locked to anything (natch. :) ) and so must have been adrift of the GPSDO by -1.43mH at the time - it isn't mounted into an enclosure where I can stabilise the baseplate temperature (and ultimately compensate for barometric pressure changes) to make it worth adjusting it to within 50uHz again.

 Anyway, the use of a cheap smd XO and the horrible Flicker noise like jitter leaves me wondering whether this a systemic issue that's simply gone unnoticed or just a case of bad luck on my part for landing up with a "Lemon" that just happened to be afflicted by a faulty XO chip.

 I've attached a couple of short movie clips you should find particularly interesting, demonstrating the clock jitter and the shape shifting Sinc pulse with a picture showing the required +11 or 12 Hz offset to get within one Hz of the RFS and GPSDO reference frequencies in order to reveal the internal clock jitter.

 CH1 shows the 10MHz sine output from the FY6600's second channel which is locked to the GPSDO. This is the trigger source. CH2 displays the sine wave output from the SDG1032X. CH3 is showing the free running RFS with CH4 displaying the FY6600's 10MHz Sinc pulse on its second channel (MVI_3031.mkv - 5 second clip).

 In the second, 1 minute long movie clip (MVI_3039.mkv), I've turned the odd channels off to de-clutter the display. The Sinc pulse that isn't wriggling is the 12MHz FY6600 one, the other 6MHz Sinc pulse comes from the SDG1032X. ::)

============================================================================================
[EDIT 2020-10-04]

 I've just repeated that last test and can no longer recreate that "squirmy" effect on the Sinc pulse  :wtf: The only thing I did notice was a rather dramatic drop in amplitude when setting it to the 6MHz maximum frequency limit.

============================================================================================
 So, my question is this:- Is the clock jitter a faulty smd XO chip or the result of Siglent trying to reduce their BoM costs by using the cheapest of smd XOs they could lay their hands on with (just like Feeltech) no consideration for the consequences?

 It would be interesting to see whether this jitter effect afflicts all SDG1000Xs in general or whether it's merely an unfortunate manufacturing defect in the unit that was shipped out to me.

Regards, John


 This is by way of a (relatively) quick update on the situation regarding the SDG1032X as described in my previous post quoted above.

 You may be pleased to note that I won't be posting any more video clip attachments demonstrating the rather curious clock jitter issue and shortcomings relative to a cheap toy AWG of its arbitrary waveforms (notably that of the Sinc pulse waveform limited to a maximum frequency of just 6MHz which plummets by a bad 6 to 10dB compared to the 5MHz output level).

 I had come to conclude that the horrible clock jitter was simply due to a fault in or around the smd xo chip and have returned it to Telonic for a full refund. Telonic accepted my request without argument and even sent a courier to collect it and I have no qualms about doing any future business with them the next time I'll be looking for more T&M kit.

 The delay involved in reaching this point seems to lie with Siglenteu, leaving Telonic as much a victim as I was. It seems this particular defect is extremely rare (or more likely a sneaky type of fault that isn't so readily revealed using a cursory waveform check with a 'scope), hence the apparent misunderstanding of the problem by Siglenteu's "technicians" who obviously lack the required experience to understand the big "Clue by Four" video clip evidence passed onto them by Telonic.

 I did quite a bit of searching to find similar issues strongly hinting at this oscillator instability but none I could point at and say, "Here's another example of the jittery oscillator issue!". For instance, one example involved a Rigol (what else  >:D) MSO which quite clearly to me was a timebase jitter issue that could only be another example of the same unstable clock reference I was seeing. The fact that it was effecting the timebase in an item of test equipment made it all the more difficult to demonstrate what was actually going on (in this case, the MSO would have to opened up and the circuitry probed using another properly functioning 'scope to pin down the culprit).

 With my request for either a full refund or replacement with an SDG2042X with my paying the price difference going ignored whilst Telonic were so preoccupied with their dealings with Siglenteu that they forgot to keep me informed, I decided to have done with the whole business and insist on a straightforward refund and go to my previous supplier for a swift delivery of the SDG2042X I'd hoped would suffice as a sufficient upgrade as to finally allow me to retire my much abused FY6600-60M.

 You might be surprised to learn that I still might have to wait a while before I can actually retire that FY6600 since there are still some serious issues to be addressed by a thoroughly revamped firmware update. It's far more than just a user hostile UI that has to be re-written but also code in the FPGA to correct inexcusable shortcomings in the generation of Arbitrary waveforms, most notably the Sinc pulse which only looks good at the (apparently magic) 10MHz frequency setting (but which my SDS2504X Plus's CCJ measurement stats still show a +/-171ns jitter regardless) turning into a scrambled jittery mess just 1Hz either side of this magic 10MHz spot frequency (but curiously, no change to the CCJ stats).

 Meanwhile, the FY6600-60M's Sinc pulse carries on demonstrating a -0.15ns and +0.15ns CCJ stat regardless of frequency setting around the 10MHz mark (I haven't bothered checking out its 15 and 20MHz stats - just the +/-4Hz neighbourhood of the magic 10MHz that seems to disguise this CCJ issue in the SDG2042X).

 Now, in view of the fact that the hardware in a 1.2GSa/s 16 bit AWG must be at least an order of magnitude better in both build quality and specification over the hardware used in a cheap plastic cased 250MSa/s 14bit AWG, the problems can surely only be a matter of piss poor firmware. I mean, how else can you cripple an order of magnitude better hardware into something that falls short in so many aspects compared to a cheap "Toy AWG" like Feeltech's FY6600-60M? :o

 It's only the fact that a firmware upgrade is a doable fix that stops me from immediately declaring it as "Unfit for purpose" and claiming a full refund to either give up on the whole idea of upgrading to an improved replacement for my 'Toy AWG' or spend yet more wads of cash on an "A Brand" alternative which, the way things have been going, might yet prove to have its own surprising shortcomings.

 So here I am, contemplating whether it's worth hanging onto the SDG2042X or simply giving up and send it back for a full refund. The problem is there aren't really any viable alternatives in the same sort of price bracket (Rigol are most definitely not an alternative imo).

 I'm not fishing for buying advice here. I know researching the market is likely to be a long drawn out ball ache of a process to find a best value for money solution that's likely to still involve a compromise or three (one of which is almost certainly going to involve the state of my bank balance).

 Just for added interest, even though mention of the SDG2042X is slightly off topic in this thread, I've attached some screen shots to give you a little more detail on the CCJ stats and the peculiar jitter of the 2042's Sinc pulse waveform compared to that of the Feeltech's at 10 and 10.000001MHz

 CH1 is sinewave from the 2042
 CH2 is the RFS
 CH3 is the Sinc pulse from the 2042
 CH4 is the Sinc pulse from the FY6600 from which I'm triggering the 'scope

 I've disabled CH1 CH2 in the last four images to clarify the Sinc pulse waveforms. The first two of these images show the waveforms at exactly 10MHz (both generators locked to my GPSDO) and the last two are at 10.000001MHz to demonstrate the jitter effect which reveals itself only on the 2042's pulse - the FY6600's never so much as bats an eyelid in response to this 1Hz offset and this remains true for the 2, 3 and 4Hz offsets I tried.

John
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on October 23, 2020, 04:20:56 am
you are completely right.
Before now I did not know this model and was perplexed by the behavior of the load setup change. Since the instrument is new, I thought it was faulty but obviously the reason is the change in the gain range of the output stage.
Thanks for your support.


Just this what you have done is very important part to do when who ever get some new instrument. It is important, many times used, phrase "Know your instrument" for successful using in many kind of variable purposes. It is important to know limits and performance with  some own selfmade tests etc, in different situations so that instrument can not pull user to more or less hidden trap. ;)


 I couldn't agree more!  :) Indeed, I'd made this very point in the long running FY6600 thread some time back (and, it turns out, not without good reason).

 Having recently purchased a SDG1032X from Telonic Instruments Ltd, I've made the rather surprising discovery that the humble FY6600-60M I'd bought almost two years ago, is in many ways superior to this Siglent generator (especially now that it has a 10MHz CQE branded - as used by Symmetricom - OCXO, stable to within +/- 100ppt, which can be injection locked to an external 10MHz reference).

 As is typically the case with published specifications, the usual "lying by omission" (the favoured tactic of the ad man) means you have to probe very deep to elicit, for example, that the quoted 300ns jitter figure is an rms value rather than a pk-pk one which typically corresponds to a pk-pk value around the 800 to 900ns mark which compares very unfavourably against the observed 200 to 250ns pk-pk jitter on sine and Sinc pulse waveforms generated by the FY6600. Also, the Sinc pulse generated by the Siglent at the 6MHz limit wriggles and squirms to the point of being almost completely unusable versus that of the Feeltech which shows only the slightest hint of this effect at 12MHz (watch the attached movie files depicting this effect and that of the Flicker noise jitter from its internal reference clock).

 With only 8 digits of frequency display resolution, I haven't found any way to offset a 10MHz signal by Siglent's promised 1uHz resolution, unlike the FY6600's (verified) promise of such resolution of 1uHz over the full DC to 60MHz frequency range of the FY6600-60M model courtesy of the 14 digit resolution display which seems OTT until you upgrade to an OCXO with an external reference clock optional extra (injection locked rather than phase locked in my case) with the potential to let you meaningfully utilise all 14 of those digits of precision.

 I chose the SDG1000X over the more expensive SDG2000X series simply on account of its superior square wave performance since this seemed more useful for my needs but, having witnessed the surprising limitations and the severe flicker noise like jitter on its internal clock reference which clears up when you use an external 10MHz reference, I'm now beginning to regret not spending the extra cash on an SDG2042X.

 I don't expect miracles of stability and accuracy out of the cheap 50ppm smd XO chip Siglent had decided to inflict upon their SDG1000X models since the external clock reference socket takes care of that requirement assuming the +1.43mHz offset at 10MHz isn't an issue.

 That, BTW, corresponds to a gain of one second per 45 years. That may seem pretty good but it's shite compared to the minuscule rounding error in that FY6600's DDS processing which requires some 1.8 million years to accumulate a one second error (well over 4 orders of magnitude more accurate!).


 I'm guessing that bogus +1.43mHz offset must have been due to my triggering from the RFS waveform at that time. It isn't locked to anything (natch. :) ) and so must have been adrift of the GPSDO by -1.43mH at the time - it isn't mounted into an enclosure where I can stabilise the baseplate temperature (and ultimately compensate for barometric pressure changes) to make it worth adjusting it to within 50uHz again.

 Anyway, the use of a cheap smd XO and the horrible Flicker noise like jitter leaves me wondering whether this a systemic issue that's simply gone unnoticed or just a case of bad luck on my part for landing up with a "Lemon" that just happened to be afflicted by a faulty XO chip.

 I've attached a couple of short movie clips you should find particularly interesting, demonstrating the clock jitter and the shape shifting Sinc pulse with a picture showing the required +11 or 12 Hz offset to get within one Hz of the RFS and GPSDO reference frequencies in order to reveal the internal clock jitter.

 CH1 shows the 10MHz sine output from the FY6600's second channel which is locked to the GPSDO. This is the trigger source. CH2 displays the sine wave output from the SDG1032X. CH3 is showing the free running RFS with CH4 displaying the FY6600's 10MHz Sinc pulse on its second channel (MVI_3031.mkv - 5 second clip).

 In the second, 1 minute long movie clip (MVI_3039.mkv), I've turned the odd channels off to de-clutter the display. The Sinc pulse that isn't wriggling is the 12MHz FY6600 one, the other 6MHz Sinc pulse comes from the SDG1032X. ::)

============================================================================================
[EDIT 2020-10-04]

 I've just repeated that last test and can no longer recreate that "squirmy" effect on the Sinc pulse  :wtf: The only thing I did notice was a rather dramatic drop in amplitude when setting it to the 6MHz maximum frequency limit.

============================================================================================
 So, my question is this:- Is the clock jitter a faulty smd XO chip or the result of Siglent trying to reduce their BoM costs by using the cheapest of smd XOs they could lay their hands on with (just like Feeltech) no consideration for the consequences?

 It would be interesting to see whether this jitter effect afflicts all SDG1000Xs in general or whether it's merely an unfortunate manufacturing defect in the unit that was shipped out to me.

Regards, John


 This is by way of a (relatively) quick update on the situation regarding the SDG1032X as described in my previous post quoted above.

 You may be pleased to note that I won't be posting any more video clip attachments demonstrating the rather curious clock jitter issue and shortcomings relative to a cheap toy AWG of its arbitrary waveforms (notably that of the Sinc pulse waveform limited to a maximum frequency of just 6MHz which plummets by a bad 6 to 10dB compared to the 5MHz output level).

 I had come to conclude that the horrible clock jitter was simply due to a fault in or around the smd xo chip and have returned it to Telonic for a full refund. Telonic accepted my request without argument and even sent a courier to collect it and I have no qualms about doing any future business with them the next time I'll be looking for more T&M kit.

 The delay involved in reaching this point seems to lie with Siglenteu, leaving Telonic as much a victim as I was. It seems this particular defect is extremely rare (or more likely a sneaky type of fault that isn't so readily revealed using a cursory waveform check with a 'scope), hence the apparent misunderstanding of the problem by Siglenteu's "technicians" who obviously lack the required experience to understand the big "Clue by Four" video clip evidence passed onto them by Telonic.

 I did quite a bit of searching to find similar issues strongly hinting at this oscillator instability but none I could point at and say, "Here's another example of the jittery oscillator issue!". For instance, one example involved a Rigol (what else  >:D) MSO which quite clearly to me was a timebase jitter issue that could only be another example of the same unstable clock reference I was seeing. The fact that it was effecting the timebase in an item of test equipment made it all the more difficult to demonstrate what was actually going on (in this case, the MSO would have to opened up and the circuitry probed using another properly functioning 'scope to pin down the culprit).

 With my request for either a full refund or replacement with an SDG2042X with my paying the price difference going ignored whilst Telonic were so preoccupied with their dealings with Siglenteu that they forgot to keep me informed, I decided to have done with the whole business and insist on a straightforward refund and go to my previous supplier for a swift delivery of the SDG2042X I'd hoped would suffice as a sufficient upgrade as to finally allow me to retire my much abused FY6600-60M.

 You might be surprised to learn that I still might have to wait a while before I can actually retire that FY6600 since there are still some serious issues to be addressed by a thoroughly revamped firmware update. It's far more than just a user hostile UI that has to be re-written but also code in the FPGA to correct inexcusable shortcomings in the generation of Arbitrary waveforms, most notably the Sinc pulse which only looks good at the (apparently magic) 10MHz frequency setting (but which my SDS2504X Plus's CCJ measurement stats still show a +/-171ns jitter regardless) turning into a scrambled jittery mess just 1Hz either side of this magic 10MHz spot frequency (but curiously, no change to the CCJ stats).

 Meanwhile, the FY6600-60M's Sinc pulse carries on demonstrating a -0.15ns and +0.15ns CCJ stat regardless of frequency setting around the 10MHz mark (I haven't bothered checking out its 15 and 20MHz stats - just the +/-4Hz neighbourhood of the magic 10MHz that seems to disguise this CCJ issue in the SDG2042X).

 Now, in view of the fact that the hardware in a 1.2GSa/s 16 bit AWG must be at least an order of magnitude better in both build quality and specification over the hardware used in a cheap plastic cased 250MSa/s 14bit AWG, the problems can surely only be a matter of piss poor firmware. I mean, how else can you cripple an order of magnitude better hardware into something that falls short in so many aspects compared to a cheap "Toy AWG" like Feeltech's FY6600-60M? :o

 It's only the fact that a firmware upgrade is a doable fix that stops me from immediately declaring it as "Unfit for purpose" and claiming a full refund to either give up on the whole idea of upgrading to an improved replacement for my 'Toy AWG' or spend yet more wads of cash on an "A Brand" alternative which, the way things have been going, might yet prove to have its own surprising shortcomings.

 So here I am, contemplating whether it's worth hanging onto the SDG2042X or simply giving up and send it back for a full refund. The problem is there aren't really any viable alternatives in the same sort of price bracket (Rigol are most definitely not an alternative imo).

 I'm not fishing for buying advice here. I know researching the market is likely to be a long drawn out ball ache of a process to find a best value for money solution that's likely to still involve a compromise or three (one of which is almost certainly going to involve the state of my bank balance).

 Just for added interest, even though mention of the SDG2042X is slightly off topic in this thread, I've attached some screen shots to give you a little more detail on the CCJ stats and the peculiar jitter of the 2042's Sinc pulse waveform compared to that of the Feeltech's at 10 and 10.000001MHz

 CH1 is sinewave from the 2042
 CH2 is the RFS
 CH3 is the Sinc pulse from the 2042
 CH4 is the Sinc pulse from the FY6600 from which I'm triggering the 'scope

 I've disabled CH1 CH2 in the last four images to clarify the Sinc pulse waveforms. The first two of these images show the waveforms at exactly 10MHz (both generators locked to my GPSDO) and the last two are at 10.000001MHz to demonstrate the jitter effect which reveals itself only on the 2042's pulse - the FY6600's never so much as bats an eyelid in response to this 1Hz offset and this remains true for the 2, 3 and 4Hz offsets I tried.

John


Can you explain what is your named Siglenteu. Do you mean exactly  https://www.siglenteu.com (https://www.siglenteu.com)   or some other.

As everyone can see in every one your last "test" image trigger come from CH4 what is FY6600 signal.
I think it was not "accidentally" without any meaning. But yes, Im not so interested about this fooling kids game.
But you can not fool all of us.

 |O
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: TurboTom on October 23, 2020, 08:59:13 am
@Johnny B Good -

when doing tests with arbitraries, it's always a good idea to look at the waveform at low frequencies first. I've got a 250MSa/s AWG (among others...) that reproduces a Sinc (Sin(x)*x^-1) waveform with a period from -32Pi to +32Pi, i.e. consisting of a total of 32 "wiggles". It becomes completely obvious that such a signal cannot be reproduced at a period frequency of 10MHz, the underlying sine wave would be at 320MHz, almos three times Nyquist! I found this generator to reproduce the Sinc signal nicely up to approx. 1MHz with slight unsymmetry up to 2MHz and identifyable as "wannabe" Sinc maybe up to 2.5...3MHz. Above that, it loses "wiggles" due to aliasing and bandwidth limitation in the reconstruction filter.

Please have a look at the Sinc signal of your FY6600 AWG at low frequency -- I'm sure it looks pretty different from what you get at 10MHz.

Moreover, as @rf-loop pointed out, triggering on one generator output while observing another generator's signal and to judge from the "smeared" signal of the latter that this generator is at fault, is simply incorrect. Each of the two generators could be the "culprit" unless it's clearly an amplitude thing. And as explained above, in this case even your test signal was not adequate or even valid to do this kind of measurement. Know your gear, know its limitations.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Johnny B Good on October 23, 2020, 07:00:59 pm
@Johnny B Good -

when doing tests with arbitraries, it's always a good idea to look at the waveform at low frequencies first. I've got a 250MSa/s AWG (among others...) that reproduces a Sinc (Sin(x)*x^-1) waveform with a period from -32Pi to +32Pi, i.e. consisting of a total of 32 "wiggles". It becomes completely obvious that such a signal cannot be reproduced at a period frequency of 10MHz, the underlying sine wave would be at 320MHz, almos three times Nyquist! I found this generator to reproduce the Sinc signal nicely up to approx. 1MHz with slight unsymmetry up to 2MHz and identifyable as "wannabe" Sinc maybe up to 2.5...3MHz. Above that, it loses "wiggles" due to aliasing and bandwidth limitation in the reconstruction filter.

Please have a look at the Sinc signal of your FY6600 AWG at low frequency -- I'm sure it looks pretty different from what you get at 10MHz.

Moreover, as @rf-loop pointed out, triggering on one generator output while observing another generator's signal and to judge from the "smeared" signal of the latter that this generator is at fault, is simply incorrect. Each of the two generators could be the "culprit" unless it's clearly an amplitude thing. And as explained above, in this case even your test signal was not adequate or even valid to do this kind of measurement. Know your gear, know its limitations.

@TurboTom and @rf-loop,

 Many thanks to the both of you... :-[  :)

 To answer @rf-loop's siglenteu question, yes, I was referring to siglenteu.com, Siglent's official European distributor, to distinguish it from the cybersquatting siglent.eu.com which is just another dealer who happens to sell Siglent kit.

TBH, I was so hung up over the fact that the FY6600's Sinc pulse with its lack of the infamous 4ns DAC clock jitter that afflicts all the other pulse waveforms that have at least one rapid transition, makes it extremely useful for triggering or use as a datum point for observing slow frequency drifts against things like DIY GPSDO reference clock outputs that I was rather put out to see the same couldn't be said of the Siglent's Sinc pulse (at least as far as fine tuning it to match whatever I was tracking).

 At 1MHz the '66 shows about the same number of squiggles as it did at 10MHz but you see twice as many (22 in total) between the peaks on the '42's Sinc pulse. I'm no mathematics wizard but even I can recognise a function that involves an infinite series which can only be approximated anyway. I guess how well an AWG can approximate a Sinc pulse depends on how much hardware resources you have available and where you want to make compromises.

 JOOI, I decided to run a sequence of CCJ stats, starting at the 20MHz upper limit of the 2042 (the 6600 has no such limit, leaving the users to decide for themselves just how far they can usefully increase the frequency). I worked my way down in 1MHz steps after skipping the 18MHz step. You'll notice some of the steps had several screenshots devoted to them on account of the CCJ errors on CH3 (the 42's pulse) due to the severe amplitude jitter (I suspect dedicating the full vertical resolution in 10 bit mode would probably address this but I'm not planning on spending any more time on this if I can possibly avoid it).

 Bearing in mind what had been said about the choice of trigger source, I started with the '42 as the sine wave trigger signal on CH1 for the first image, using the '66 for the next two before going back to the '42 for images 04 through to 18 inclusive, switching back to the '66 for images 19 to 24, finishing by going back to the '42 for the final image.

 I saw very little difference between the two triggering sources which shouldn't be too surprising considering they were both locked to the GPSDO reference (possible in the case of the 6600 simply as a result of its OCXO upgrade with add on injection locking circuit). The 2042 was used for the vast majority of these CCJ test runs as described and the 6600's sine wave output used to demonstrate what little difference the choice of triggering source actually made.

 The first image shows the 42's Sinc pulse in its best light by fortuitously changing the frequency to the 20MHz limit at just the right moment (it took several tries). The second demonstrates the same situation using the 6600 as the triggering signal. Still using the 6600 to trigger the 'scope, I switched between the 19 and 20MHz as before until I caught it "with its pants around its ankles" (the other extreme of its amplitude jitter range). And, no it isn't a "Single triggered snapshot", that's exactly how it appears in a repetitively refreshed live view. I then switched triggering back to the 2042 to get another shot of this collapsed Sinc pulse in image 04 before continuing onto image 18. I used the 6600 in the next 5 images before switching back to the 2042 in the final image.

 Images 19 to 23 demonstrate the CCJ errors at 11MHz on the 2042's Sinc pulse with the last two images showing the reason why. It took me an hour and a half just to capture those screenshots alone but I thought they'd help demonstrate my bemusement at the startling difference between what Feeltech/FeelElec and Siglent had been striving for in their own approximations of a Sinc pulse waveform.

 On the basis that the Sinc pulse is a tricky waveform to produce with any realism at the high end of the frequency range, It looks like I'll be hanging onto the 2042. After all, Sinc pulse waveforms aren't the be all and end all of the arbitrary wave zoo. :)

 Once again, my thanks to you both for your input. I can now set aside what I suspect would be a futile quest for a better AWG in a similarly affordable price bracket and be happy (once Siglent have revamped the UI into something more worthy of its place in their otherwise very fine AWG product line).

John

Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Johnny B Good on October 23, 2020, 07:13:54 pm
 Oops! It looks like EEVBlog's server has FSCKed again!

 Here's the final 5 images which the server had ignored that I'd attached to the previous post.

John
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: TurboTom on October 23, 2020, 09:49:37 pm
@Johnny B Good -

I'm sorry if it sounds a little rude, but in none of your screenshots I can see a "properly" sampled Sinc pulse. The Sinc function has to be symmetrical, as soon as there's even the slightest asymmetry visible, it's likely that samples had been skipped.

I'm not sure if you are really familiar with basic sampling theory: Theoretically, in order to reproduce a sine signal, two samples are sufficient for each period of that sine. Since this is not possible practically, the maximum frequency that you will find in real-world generators, is 1/2.5 of the sampling frequency, i.e. the highest frequency that an AWG running at 250MSa/s will be able to generate is about 100MHz (Rigol DG992 for example). A Sinc signal from -32Pi to +32Pi will have 32 "hills and valleys" in total, so the highest frequency that this signal contains is 32 times the "repetition frequency" (22 as you reported in case of the SDG2000X). If you repeat a signal like this at 10MHz, the highest frequency component this signal contains is about 320MHz (vs. 220MHz in your case). There's no way the FY6600 nor the SDG2122X will reproduce this. What happens is called "aliasing", i.e. not every sample point in the waveform buffer gets "played back" and the reconstruction filter forms of the remaining sample points what you see on the screen of your scope. This may actually resemble a Sinc signal quite well, but it's not what's stored in the AWG's memory. It also leads to the "smearing" of the trace if there's a low-frequency interference between the sampling frequency and the highest frequency component of the Sinc signal to be reproduced.

You may argue that Siglent specifies for their SDG2000X generators 1.2GSa/s, and you are right. But if you look more closely at the spec sheet of that generator (https://www.batronix.com/files/Siglent/Funktionsgeneratoren/SDG2000X/SDG2000X_Datasheet_EN.pdf), you will quickly get disappointed: The 1.2GSa/s refers to the internal sampling rate of the AD9122 DAC (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD9122.pdfl). But the DAC has got an internal interpolation engine and Siglent "drives" it only at 300MSa/s while the interpolation makes signals that are within the specified frequency range appear (more ro less) like they had been sampled at 1.2GHz. So basically, the FY6600 and the SDG2000X aren't that far apart from each other. The DDS and "TrueArb" sampling scheme also only differ in details, you will find that the "reproduction rate" of the TrueArb scheme is another factor four slower than the DDS scheme (75MSa/s vs. 300MSa/s). This is necessary to reproduce slopes by adjusting their slew rate in order to apparently shift their position so they lie in between the "true" sampling points, thus reducing phase jitter, but this comes at the cost of bandwidth.

All this means that none of the manufacturers can do magic. All of them have funny names for their performance enhancement (TruArb, SiFi II,...) that describes the same principle.

I also don't exactly understand what you mean with that the Sinc signal is a difficult to reproduce waveform. If you stay within the mathematically possible frequency range, it's no more difficult than any other waveform. Moreover, an ARB generator is better suited to produce sensor signals for example that are otherwise difficult to obtain in the lab, i.e. to design a post-processing electronics. And these signals usually aren't that fast. I haven't heard of anyone requiring a 20MHz Sinc signal, but maybe I'm just ignorant  ;).

Anyway, I hope this information may give you some deeper insight into the subject.

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Johnny B Good on October 24, 2020, 03:05:06 am
@Johnny B Good -

I'm sorry if it sounds a little rude, but in none of your screenshots I can see a "properly" sampled Sinc pulse. The Sinc function has to be symmetrical, as soon as there's even the slightest asymmetry visible, it's likely that samples had been skipped.

I'm not sure if you are really familiar with basic sampling theory: Theoretically, in order to reproduce a sine signal, two samples are sufficient for each period of that sine. Since this is not possible practically, the maximum frequency that you will find in real-world generators, is 1/2.5 of the sampling frequency, i.e. the highest frequency that an AWG running at 250MSa/s will be able to generate is about 100MHz (Rigol DG992 for example). A Sinc signal from -32Pi to +32Pi will have 32 "hills and valleys" in total, so the highest frequency that this signal contains is 32 times the "repetition frequency" (22 as you reported in case of the SDG2000X). If you repeat a signal like this at 10MHz, the highest frequency component this signal contains is about 320MHz (vs. 220MHz in your case). There's no way the FY6600 nor the SDG2122X will reproduce this. What happens is called "aliasing", i.e. not every sample point in the waveform buffer gets "played back" and the reconstruction filter forms of the remaining sample points what you see on the screen of your scope. This may actually resemble a Sinc signal quite well, but it's not what's stored in the AWG's memory. It also leads to the "smearing" of the trace if there's a low-frequency interference between the sampling frequency and the highest frequency component of the Sinc signal to be reproduced.

You may argue that Siglent specifies for their SDG2000X generators 1.2GSa/s, and you are right. But if you look more closely at the spec sheet of that generator (https://www.batronix.com/files/Siglent/Funktionsgeneratoren/SDG2000X/SDG2000X_Datasheet_EN.pdf), you will quickly get disappointed: The 1.2GSa/s refers to the internal sampling rate of the AD9122 DAC (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD9122.pdfl). But the DAC has got an internal interpolation engine and Siglent "drives" it only at 300MSa/s while the interpolation makes signals that are within the specified frequency range appear (more ro less) like they had been sampled at 1.2GHz. So basically, the FY6600 and the SDG2000X aren't that far apart from each other. The DDS and "TrueArb" sampling scheme also only differ in details, you will find that the "reproduction rate" of the TrueArb scheme is another factor four slower than the DDS scheme (75MSa/s vs. 300MSa/s). This is necessary to reproduce slopes by adjusting their slew rate in order to apparently shift their position so they lie in between the "true" sampling points, thus reducing phase jitter, but this comes at the cost of bandwidth.

All this means that none of the manufacturers can do magic. All of them have funny names for their performance enhancement (TruArb, SiFi II,...) that describes the same principle.

I also don't exactly understand what you mean with that the Sinc signal is a difficult to reproduce waveform. If you stay within the mathematically possible frequency range, it's no more difficult than any other waveform. Moreover, an ARB generator is better suited to produce sensor signals for example that are otherwise difficult to obtain in the lab, i.e. to design a post-processing electronics. And these signals usually aren't that fast. I haven't heard of anyone requiring a 20MHz Sinc signal, but maybe I'm just ignorant  ;).

Anyway, I hope this information may give you some deeper insight into the subject.

Cheers,
Thomas

 Thanks for responding so quickly.

 As it happens, I am acquainted with sampling theory so quite understand your argument. I was also aware of the 300MSa/s and 75MSa/s limits in this "1.2GSa/s" AWG model. However, what I wasn't aware of was there being a specific number of "wiggles" in a properly formed Sinc pulse. I'd just assumed that the ten in total peaks of the Feeltech version and the twenty in total of peaks in the Siglent one (I just set the frequency of both to 1MHz and counted them again, including the tiny pip in the middle) were just approximations to a mathematical function involving an infinite series of coefficients. I hadn't realised there was meant to be a specific 32 waves in total to recreate an accurate facsimile of a Sinc pulse.

 In the light of that information (please excuse my ignorance and my ASS-U-MEd conclusions :-[), it seems that both Siglent and Feeltech have been cheating (Feeltech doubly so). That rather begs the question as to why Siglent in this case chose to set the limit at 20MHz rather than say 6MHz or even 12MHz at a push. The SDG1Kx models use a 6MHz limit and even this is double what a 150MSa/s rate could deliver.

 The appeal of the Sinc pulse in the Feeltech was purely down to the fact that it offered a uniquely distinctive jitter free waveshape pulse with nice steep edges so suited for the task of monitoring a slowly drifting sine or square wave from my gpsdo projects. I wasn't really concerned about the squiggles in between (quality or their quantity).

 Well, the fact that even Siglent felt impelled to cheat on the quantity of squiggles suggests they were trying to overcome a difficulty in producing them at  the highest frequency possible, given all the constraints. Presumably they must have decided that a close enough facsimile to a genuine full fat Sinc pulse would suffice most, if not all, users' needs. Just how exact does a Sinc pulse need to be, considering that Feeltech had cheated twice as much? ::)

 Presumably, a user who demands nothing less than a full fat Sinc pulse below the 3.75MHz limit of a 300MSa/s DAC could arbitrarily create or import  their own. Perhaps Siglent felt that their ersatz example would suit 90% of users and Feeltech had decided most of their customers wouldn't notice the difference anyway (and any that did could create one, after all, it is an AWG after all). ::)

 As for the question of anyone wanting a 20MHz Sinc pulse, I wonder who would want or need a 1MHz ECG?  :-DD

John
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: TurboTom on October 24, 2020, 07:56:45 am
Yes, tachycardia on steroids...   ;D

Yet, I may have explained the situation with the Sinc pulse somewhat inaccurately. The number of "wiggles" is not fixed, it's rather the decision of the instrument manufacturer. If you need a longer sample, you can easily generate it as a custom arbitrary. It's just the representation of the mathematical formula f(x)=Sin(x)/x The Sin(x) generates the periods (wiggles) while the 1/x is resposible for the hyperbolic amplitude drop and the phase change and funny shape around zero. Actually, at exactly zero, this formula isn't defined since you would divide by zero. But it's possible to calculate the limit lim(x->0) by calculating the quotient of the derivatives d/dx(Sin(x)) = Cos(x) (which is 1 @ x=0) and d/dx(x) = 1, so you're dividing 1/1=1, which is the value the Sinc function approaches for x -> 0. IIRC, this is called l'Hospital's rule...long time since I was at school and univerity...

Anyway, the interval that's used to reproduce the function in an AWG is more or less arbitrary. Btw, the Sinc function is used in digital oscilloscopes to mathematically interpolate a waveform with highest frequency contents only a little below nyquist, i.e. that's only a little more than two samples per period, so there are also practical applications of that "waveform". The details of this are best to be found in books on sampling theory.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: rf-loop on October 24, 2020, 08:20:56 am


 As for the question of anyone wanting a 20MHz Sinc pulse, I wonder who would want or need a 1MHz ECG?  :-DD

John

Who need. No one.
Who "need". Kids or kids like grown ups just as for playing fun with scope and generator. Whole hobby may be just playing with test instruments alone like with Nintendo. They are main thing in hobby in some cases. Some cases peoples hobby is electronics  and so on and test and measurement instruments are only tools, just like screw driver and pliers etc.  When these are needed for real work for salary, mostly they are just tools. Who there need any ready made simplest ECG wfm what is only some how "looks like" joke copied from some basic school book, yes we can say there is artifical or better say artist painted QRST parts but after then it is all what it have. If someone need test some system he need very very different and not monotonic wfms for simulate real ECG for test some circuits for it, who think these jokes are useful in any real works but just for kids playing fun and for salesmans.
One purpose I know. Teaching. Example for teaching how to use and adjust oscilloscope for different things and signals. Example exercise lessons for simple trigger settings with different signals for look just wanted details. This can be one piece of whole set of different signals in basic training.






Sidenote(s) to some random readers who just read bit this and bit that and is confused by sampling speed, jitter, ARB detals disappearing and DDS one clock jitter and ARB frequency:

I take example about Siglent SDG1000X (because it is in topic)
ARB waveforms in DDS mode when fixed memory length is in use.
SDG1000X have 150Msa/s and ARB memory length is 16384  14 bit "words" for DAC.

One memory length is one ARB waveform  (later awfm).

All know working simplified principle is that it reads ARB memory using this fixed 150Msa/s speed  and  value goes to DAC input.

Now we can read data sheet. It tell that maximum ARB frequency is 6MHz! ARB memory lenght is 16k. It mean that it can repeat this one ARB memory waveform  6 million times in second (6M awfm/s).



If we think it can repeat whole ARB memory wfm with all its possible details using 6MHz ARB frequency -- this is just totally impossible. Why.

Because awfm length is 16k and it is sampled using 150Msa/s speed.
If we sample every single awfm memory position and we get out 6M awfm/s it need 6M*16384=98304Msa/s = 98.304Gsa/s
All know it is impossible. But data sheet do not tell it directly. User need understand how these work.

Lets look other way. What is maximal awfm/s what can do so that memory length is 16384 and clock is 150M and every data points in memory can take to DAC. 150/16384=0,0091552734375.
It mean that 9.1552734375k, bit over 9k awfm/s is maximum. Without loosing details maximum ARB frequency is 9.155 kHz !  Not 6 MHz of course.

Data sheet tell:
Arbitrary Wave characteristics
Frequency min 1uHz and  max 6MHz. 

But just ago I show that max is tiny bit over 9kHz.
Yes, this IS maximum  arbitrary waveform repeating frequency in SDG1000X model when memory length is fixed and sampling clock is fixed. 16k memory, 150M sampling speed)

Do they lie.
No.

How it is done. (now this is extrmely simplified)

What happen now if you set ARB speed for 6MHz aka 6M awfm/s.
With 150MSa/s it can do. "Only" need jump over many many points in memory and take just 25 samples. (150/6=25)
Now if there are lot of details in waveform in ARB memory they are just ignored, just jump over like lazy fox jumps. We loose details.  (of course it is bit more complex because memory length is 16384 and divide by.... and so on... so there need some what then can see as one clock jitter in final result)

Wait a minute, somewhere I just read that someone have told to my friend who tell to me that ARB can produce even 30MHz  or over sinewave, not so nice looking but still somehow nice wave.

Think other way previously told things...

Still bit rounding corners and simplified.
Just told that using 6MHz ARB max freg can read 25 data points when 150Msa/s clock.
Ok. Lets draw 10 cycle sinewave in ARB memory. Then run it with 6MHz ARB freq. Now it can read again 25 samples, 2.5 sample per one cycle.
Yes there is some filters and result may look some kind of "sine".  But if you  you run it using 3MHz or  draw 5 cycles sine and run it using 6MHz you get 30MHz out... now it looks bit better... and if you change frequency, with some freq it can even look quite nice... as also can do with 10 cycle sine in arb memory.

If we need every position in arb memory is used and forwarded to DAC,  SDG1000X can max up to 9.155kHz ARB frequency when memory length is 16k andsampling is 150Msa/s.  This is hard fact.
Every AWG have this limit as long as it is fixed clock with some memory length DDS

After we accept some memory positions loose (jump over) then it can repeat more awfm/s (higher ARB freq).

Siglent have selected max limit as 6MHz what is ok for very simple low detail ARB waveforms. This selection for limit is not based to some truth how it must be. If Siglent set limit to 1MHz all are screaming that neighbourg have higher ARB freq. Also it can set for 10MHz, even more, it can set even for 30MHz. If it is 30MHz all are crying it can not repeat acceptable nearly any other wfm than nearly sinewave or square. 6MHz is just compromise and nothing more, it is not some kind of technical fact limit. For simple awfm it is ok and for complex awfm with dense details it is far too fast for details.
User is master and just user need know his equipment and how to use it for his application. This is why user need know basic simple fundamentals and some principles how just his instruments works. Except if he is using these only for playing fun for loose free times.

Depending user selected ARB freq it can also vary what memory position is jump over and some other things so that average frequency what user have selected is correct. So mostly we can see 6.666... ns jitter in edges. But it is difficult in practice predict what detail is loosed exactly until you are working only up to trusted 9kHz ARB freq.

About this 6MHz ARB limit.
For roughly same result, if we reduce ARB memory to 8k  we can rise it to 12MHz and if we reduce memory to 4k we can set limit to 24MHz and result is same. So if you see noname generator what have same clock speed and example you see there higher ARB freq, think carefully what it mean. Example FY6900 have 250Msa/s, 8k memory and 10MHz ARB max. With its max ARB freq it can read same 25 data points from ARB memory as Siglent and all other data points are jump over, where jump over details and variations is depending freq adjustment and producing one clock, more or less semi random, jitter -  in FY6xxx 4ns and in Siglent 1000X 6.7ns. 

In Siglent TrueArb (and many others similar mode with different names) mode there is not this one clock jitter due to variable sampling clock and ARB memory length.


Originally SDG1000X series have only fixed length fixed clock DDS mode.
Not anymore.



Some time ago Siglent add "True Arb" mode also in SDG1000X series. It was software update, just not remember FW version when it happen.

In "TrueArb" mode things are very different.
Now we do not need  jump over and periodically change data point what we move to DAC for keep average frequency.
In this mode there is three (main) things what change.  One is of course ARB freq as also in DDS mode. But now also memory reading clock change and more, also memory lenghth can change. When stay in its limits user can be sure no detail is loosed *no jump over data points) and no one clock period jumping depending ARB freq. 
But this model TrueArb have limits. 1u - 30Msa/s  and 2 - 16384 pts. sampling speed is always limited to speed where do not need jump over memory position so user know that all details are included. In this mode cycle to cycle (awfm to awfm) jitter is specified as 2 pts,  300ps RMS @ 20.1MSa/s  when direct DDS mode have specified as 6.7ns peak to peak



There is example earth quake wfm in ARB...  who can think 6MHz repeating this one quake period where is lot of details is somehow clever... as also ECG as also lot of other wfms including also sinc.  These just do not work with maximum ARB freq 6MHz.  Users need know even some basics about things.

It is good question to ask for what purpose users typically use or need ARB and with what speed and other paramaters and I do not mean what is nice to have for some niche rare use or just for "nice to have" because some others have.
Total 196 pre programmed wfm in memory. Just for checkbox feature in sales brochure and nothing else in real life. Of course nice for just playing fun. Also with other tools can play fun, even with hammer and saw. Some play fun with nintendo. Some play fun with scope and other instruments.
And because neighbour company have more perhaps other need also add more. Perhaps some year we can see some company advertise they have 10000 ready made ARB wfm in memory, ready for use. Even 196 is some difficult. You need lot of time to find if some there meet your needs. How you select them. In menu they have some names. Some wfm names do not tell nearly anything and you need just select and look. How often you want do it, finding if there is something what you just now need. Who need these.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: Johnny B Good on October 27, 2020, 11:48:52 pm
@rf-loop

 Thank you very much for that clear and concise explanation. I suppose it really all boils down to the frequency content embedded within the awfm sample and the maximum speed limit on clocking all the vital data points out if all 16K of them need to be preserved.

 This reminds me of the quote "It's turtles all the way down!" often used to describe the cosmological regression problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

 In this case, I've thought up a rephrasing of the turtles one, "It's sine waves all the way up!" :)

 That's true of "perfect square waves" of course and nearly true for many other complex awfms. In short, the limitation is down to the complexity of the awfm generating a complex mix of sine waves - every wave form can be analysed into a mix, complex or simple, of sine waves. That's just the way things work in the real world. ;)

 With that 'fact of life' in mind, it's little wonder that the higher specification AWG kit becomes so very expensive so very bleedin' fast. :(

John
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators
Post by: munxx on November 03, 2020, 06:18:34 pm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091)
i have downloaded sdg1000x ads file but i am unable to flash it to my AWG...are there any additional steps to use it?


Hi all,

I had the same issue with the error message after mounting with rw privilege (I did read the instructions carefully).

I tried to reflash version 1.01.01.33R1B6 but bricked it. Probably wasnt a good idea to have the telnet ADS in the root of the thumbdrive used to do the reflash.

So I had to shamefully contact Siglent Europe who answered me on the same day, a sunday (!) and got back to me with the u-boot repair kit the next morning. Nice experience.


You mean this [telnet_SDG1000X.ADS]

This you can not flash at all. You do all like FW update with this file and SDG tell that it fails... do not care...do not shut off... just telnet and do what ever inside SDG system. If you do not know what to do there inside system and how... then please study first...yes it may take time to find all or if you find right place there (https://app.box.com/s/srj3uev2s9wy78qj8d4jzi0j5ocgkmr9) can perhaps find all very detailed full instructions (it is like spring festival gift package what include all you need) what can use like blind (after you have telnet working) but be careful... it do not forgive any kind of typemistakes.   Do not try..oops...try...oops iteration... because this method may lead you to real problems and nearly like "destroy" your SDG

And seriously, do NOT downgrade to semidanger factory original or "eevblog version" FW ....01P22 even if you find it somewhere because if bad happen and it goes to boot problem... it do not support USB recovery method.
does anyone tried the mod SDG1000X-MOD-Part-II in order to change maximum frequencies of waveforms. I can't remount root partition in rw to change NSP_limit_data.xml. I have error on:
/ # mount -o remount,rw /
/ # cd /usr/bin/siglent/config


Hi all,

I had the same issue with the error message after mounting with rw privilege (I did read the instructions carefully).

I tried to reflash version 1.01.01.33R1B6 but bricked it. Probably wasnt a good idea to have the telnet ADS in the root of the thumbdrive used to do the reflash.

So I had to shamefully contact Siglent Europe who answered me on the same day, a sunday (!) and got back to me with the u-boot repair kit the next morning. Nice experience.