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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: diodak on February 02, 2017, 07:47:27 pm

Title: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: diodak on February 02, 2017, 07:47:27 pm
A few photos from inside SDG1032X (new model).
I think that the sign "DMMD-150300" could mean that it is a common part of the new multimeter SDM3045X.
Sorry for the quality - made in low light.
Telnet is active (port 23) in my model but I do not know the login and password.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown
Post by: diodak on February 04, 2017, 03:23:46 pm
This model has a hidden menu self adjust/calibration:
(Also applies to models of the SDG2000X series) Utility->System->System Info->Enter Password “123654”->SelfCal
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: janekivi on February 04, 2017, 10:44:14 pm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1057306/#msg1057306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1057306/#msg1057306)
If you want in... you already in... ok, with telnet then, I can only replace this with known password.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: tautech on February 04, 2017, 10:49:55 pm
Quote from: janekivi on February 04, 2017, 10:44:14 pm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1057306/#msg1057306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1057306/#msg1057306)
If you want in... you already in... ok, with telnet then, I can only replace this with known password.
Which suggests this 30 MHz model might be able to be improved to 60 MHz.  :)

Who's game to try ?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: janekivi on February 04, 2017, 11:42:05 pm
I don't know anybody...
SDG1000X_V100R001B01D01P22_eevblog.ads (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=75337928184354783240)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: diodak on February 06, 2017, 05:19:37 pm
How safe is it to upload the modified file from the link?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: janekivi on February 06, 2017, 05:51:20 pm
Who knows...
SDG2000X files I can test before by myself. There is ZIP packed shadow file replaced with HexEdit too.
You can compare 2 files side by side. Actually SDG2000X has very similar firmware and some files are
the same so I was using there part of SDG2000_eevblog_P22R5.ads what I did before and what is in
my SDG2042X. You can find those replaced parts viewing attached zip files with HexEdit.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: diodak on February 06, 2017, 06:13:03 pm
Wow ... after uploading telnet already works :) What's next?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: janekivi on February 06, 2017, 06:25:11 pm
Now... we looking at you,
can you do there something interesting like with SDG2000X is done here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/25/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/25/)
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: diodak on February 06, 2017, 07:27:12 pm
File "NSP_system_info.xml" has the same syntax as in SDG2042X. There is an interesting file called "NSP_trends_config_info.xml":
Code: [Select]
(...)
<language>english</language>
<product_type_1>SDG1012X</product_type_1>
<product_type_2>SDG1032X</product_type_2>
<product_type_3>SDG1062X</product_type_3>
<manufacturer>Siglent</manufacturer>
<Support_Touch_Flag>0</Support_Touch_Flag>
<Support_VXI11_Flag>1</Support_VXI11_Flag>
(...)
Whether it means the ability to activate eg. a touch screen?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: diodak on February 06, 2017, 07:45:02 pm
There is one thing that is bothering me. Why is the command in SCPI to transmit/set serial number?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: rf-loop on September 08, 2017, 05:21:06 am
Quote from: diodak on February 06, 2017, 07:45:02 pm
There is one thing that is bothering me. Why is the command in SCPI to transmit/set serial number?

If you do not like serial number what it transmit, why you do not change it so that it transmit what ever you want instead of serial. But of course when change what ever inside there - after then all is entirely at your own risk, of course.

btw, there is now available FW version 22R5. No one know how it works with all previous "things". 
changelog is extremely tiny and there have been long long time after last update. It is strange because there is several small things what have been waiting improvements, specially some quirks in UI ).
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: diodak on September 08, 2017, 05:41:28 pm
Downloading the new version 22R5 changes the Software Version fields from "1.01.01.22" to "1.01.01.22R5" and Hardware Version from "02-01-00-17-00" to "02-01-00-19-00". Modified login to telnet no longer works ...
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown
Post by: klausES on February 18, 2020, 12:06:50 pm
Quote from: diodak on February 04, 2017, 03:23:46 pm
This model has a hidden menu self adjust/calibration:
(Also applies to models of the SDG2000X series) Utility->System->System Info->Enter Password “123654”->SelfCal

I picked this up out of interest.

When setting sine 1KHz, 1,000V RMS (rest standard) measured the output AC voltage.
Of course, the DMM was not accurate to the fifth digit (it was 1,00208 V).
Now run self calibration.
When it was over, the voltage had dropped to 1,00114 V.
Let run a second time self cal. Then the voltage dropped to 0,99992, the third time to 0,99876...

Ok, the output voltage output is slightly lower with each self cal attempt.  :-X

Measured again this morning (FG "cold"), the tension was still lower than at the beginning by the amount of the three cuts from yesterday.

A new self cal with now lower device temp (I had to risk it to test, because the deviation annoyed me) achieved a higher output voltage.
It is (coincidence, the right temperature caught?!?) Almost as before the very first self cal attempt.
Even when it is warm, this is true as with the origin.
A little easier ... to know that you can get it back.  :phew:

What exactly does the SDG1062X do during self calibration?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: diodak on February 18, 2020, 09:06:58 pm
In my opinion, this calibration eliminates thermal drift. I guess it is especially about the offset - so that the DC output is correct. For example, the SDS 1104X-E series oscilloscopes have from some version of the FW the option of auto-calibration (fast) based on temperature changes. Here you have to do it manually and can be called via the SCPI command.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: klausES on February 18, 2020, 10:11:24 pm
Quote from: diodak on February 18, 2020, 09:06:58 pm
In my opinion, this calibration eliminates thermal drift. I guess it is especially about the offset - so that the DC output is correct...

Yes, that was also my guess and what you write absolutely coincides with my further attempts
(now brave since I know that this is not a dead end from which you would never come back ...).  ^-^

That is why today I carried out another calibration for testing.
Also one on purpose at almost exactly 23 degrees Celsius (temperature of the moving air in the case).
This calibration gave the tension almost exactly as it did before the very first attempt by self-cal (as from the factory).
If one assumes that the FG was also calibrated in the factory at approx. 23 degrees C, then it is plausible with the influence of the temperature.

You can play with this menu item if you e.g. intends to compensate for drifting values.
If you want to go back to factory values, you can also do this, if you note that this has to be done at almost exactly 23 degrees.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: diodak on February 19, 2020, 09:02:54 pm
There is one more question - why is the self-calibration menu hidden? In the oscilloscope, this is a specific menu. This option has just been hidden in this generator. Maybe something more than offset is corrected? But in that case it would require some system (inside) that it would measure. ADC is available on the oscilloscope. Maybe the ADC from the microprocessor is used in this case?

That would require further investigation ... Because the RMS has changed after calibration, it means that the gain / amplitude has changed. The offset itself in the RMS AC measurement mode would have no effect ...
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: klausES on February 19, 2020, 11:42:42 pm
Yesterday continued to test and find out more.

In addition to exploring this, it was also my goal to test, it was my wish that the FG should rather be as warm as it is with me after a long time
(more than 23 degrees factory setting, namely for me about 29 degrees) to adjust the AC output voltage and offset.

It looks like you can enter corrective values for the self-cal process.

I came across it by accident and initially thought it was a coincidence.
If it turns out to be true (although tested more than a dozen times with successful results, still amazed),
I don't want to announce it so loudly before it's absolutely safe.

Of course, one can argue about whether it makes sense in an FG case to try to use three or four decimal places.
With all this comes the aspect under which conditions exactly you measure it and how exactly you can measure.
Fortunately, I recorded all the original values and the circumstances beforehand. Otherwise you could be unsure where everything could end up.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: diodak on February 27, 2020, 08:40:37 pm
A new FW(1.01.01.33R1B6) for SDG1032X has appeared. In addition, there is a new program for creating waveforms and downloading them from the oscilloscope. Interestingly, the maximum number of samples for SDG1032X was set at 8388608 ... it's quite strange.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: klausES on February 27, 2020, 08:58:40 pm
Have the new firmware since yesterday to test on an SDG1062X.
According to log, it should only fix a change regarding problems with the button bounce (at least I had never noticed a problem about that).

Did you notice a problem with the buttons bouncing before?

I could not find any change in any other way with the new firmware.
Did you find anything else?
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: tautech on February 27, 2020, 09:39:33 pm
Siglent are just rolling a snippet of FW to address this somewhat rare keypad bounce issue.
A ~2013 SDG1025 I had had this issue and someone's SDG2000X model had it too.
What causes it I'm unsure but at least there's a simple SW patch now to fix it. 

I suspect this snippet of FW is now in all factory new SDG's and this FW is so current owners can be protected from this annoying issue too. :phew:
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: klausES on February 27, 2020, 09:55:36 pm
The bouncing of buttons increases with age.
Perhaps it is only at an advanced age or after a large number of times that the button is pushed that a threshold is exceeded that the software no longer properly interpreted.

It is possible that this has now been recognized in the older series SDG1025 and that the algorithm has now been improved to prevent all SDGs.

It may well be that I could not notice any of this with my relatively new SDG.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: tautech on February 27, 2020, 10:07:52 pm
Quote from: klausES on February 27, 2020, 09:55:36 pm
It may well be that I could not notice any of this with my relatively new SDG.
Only in the older SDG1025 is when I have seen it and not in any other model I have had as demos or ones I have sold. No reports from my customers and only the one unit I had.....that I did discuss with Siglent at the time.

Yes it seems age related but why ?
Is it the membrane keypad degrading or some other cause like a noisy PSU or the existing algorithm wasn't sufficient to suppress key bounce ?  :-// What really matters is it's been addressed.  :)

As mentioned earlier one or maybe two members here have had this problem but now there is FW to fix it should it every become a problem.
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: klausES on February 28, 2020, 12:22:24 am
Quote from: tautech on February 27, 2020, 10:07:52 pm
..Is it the membrane keypad degrading...
Exactly this.
All buttons, regardless of whether the surface of the contacts in the case of mechanical frogs or a conductive layer of rubber coating,
increase the contact resistance with time and frequency of use, making the signal less clear.
An eternal grief with remote controls and device keyboards as they get older ...

What helps if it gets too bad is first cleaning the contacting surfaces.
(If it is worse, other means need to be taken).
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: Ringmodulator on June 06, 2020, 10:29:18 am
Hi,

it looks like there is a possibility to solder in a TCXO like on the SDG1025.
This would give the possibility to fine trim the frequency accuracy.

Did someone already try this?

Chris
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: gianluigi on July 25, 2020, 01:23:20 pm
Quote from: tautech on February 04, 2017, 10:49:55 pm
Quote from: janekivi on February 04, 2017, 10:44:14 pm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1057306/#msg1057306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1057306/#msg1057306)
If you want in... you already in... ok, with telnet then, I can only replace this with known password.
Which suggests this 30 MHz model might be able to be improved to 60 MHz.  :)

Who's game to try ?
I'm interested too!
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: Johnny B Good on September 29, 2020, 10:38:48 pm
Quote from: Ringmodulator on June 06, 2020, 10:29:18 am
Hi,

it looks like there is a possibility to solder in a TCXO like on the SDG1025.
This would give the possibility to fine trim the frequency accuracy.

Did someone already try this?

Chris

 I've done this type of upgrade... but not with any Siglent gear. I've upgraded the shitty 50ppm 50MHz smd xo chip used on the main board of an FY6600-60M, first to a 50MHz TCXO board and then to a CQE 10MHz OCXO (as can be found in Symmetricon kit) to drive a 3N502 clock multiplier chip to generate the required 50MHz clock for the FPGA to produce a jitterless clock reference very unlike the one produced by that similarly shite smd xo chip in the SDG1032X (I note the SDG1025 uses a 25MHz XO), that I just took delivery of yesterday afternoon. >:( >:( >:(

 I've attached a short movie which demonstrates this issue quite nicely.  It starts off by showing the SDS2504X Plus being triggered from ch1 (fed from said FY6600-60M's 2nd channel which had to be tuned to 9.999986500MHz as shown in the attached jpg image - the FY6600 is locked to my 10MHz GPSDO reference) with ch2 showing the not very square wave reference output from the SDG1032X - substituting this for ch1 set to 10MHz only changes the wave shape to a sine but not the jittery behaviour which remains the same, making a complete mockery of its claims for low jitter performance  :wtf:

 Just over halfway through this 20 second's worth of movie, I change the trigger source to ch3 which is showing the RFS, syntonised to the GPSDO courtesy of ch1 of the FY6600 which is outputting a nice stable Sinc pulse at 10MHz (which is a damn sight better than the SDG1032X can do at 5MHz with this flavour of pulse - its shape "squirms and wriggles" quite horribly (the FY6600 shows just a tiny hint of this "squirm" at 10MHz)).

 Now, I recall seeing this jittery behaviour very early on in my ownership of the FY6600 when trying to match frequencies against a bunch of DIP14 XOs, quite possibly before I removed the lump of excrement that Feeltech laughingly refer to as a 50MHz 50ppm smd XO chip and replaced it with an off-board 50MHz TCXO reference. It was rather like chasing Will 'o' the Whisp to get the FY6600 to match the drifty DIP XOs. ISTR that this game became a bit easier after the TCXO upgrade which leaves me guessing that all of these shite 50ppm smd XO chips have this nasty behaviour and what I'm seeing in my nice shiny brand new SDG1032X is simply the consequence of myopic bean counteritus on Siglent's part. It's either that or else my example has a serious fault in its 10MHz reference oscillator department.

 I've just tested a 5MHz and a 16MHz DIP14 XO against the FY6600 (which btw, can be tuned in 1uHz increments over its full frequency range which in spite of Siglent's uHz increments claim, there seems no way to achieve at a frequency setting of 10MHz). Both DIP XOs merely showed the expected thermal drift with absolutely no sign of the jitter being so clearly demonstrated by the SDG1032X' reference output or a 10MHz sine wave from either channel output. Connecting an external 10MHz reference to the SGD1032X immediately eliminates all such jitter from its output.

 Now, I don't expect miracles of stability when running from an internal 10MHz 50ppm smd XO but this weird jitter behaviour is most definitely not acceptable in a signal generator that claims to have only 300ps rms of jitter (not the pk to pk of 300ps of jitter I've observed in the FY6600-60M's sine wave and Sinc pulse outputs, aka ~100ps rms).

 As you can imagine, I'm now rather keen to know whether this jittery behaviour is normal for the SDG1000X series or whether I've just suffered the misfortune of landing up with a "Lemon". IOW, would anyone be willing to test their SDG1000X against a stable frequency reference to see how prevalent, if at all, this jittery 10MHz internal reference issue is?

[EDIT 2020-10-24]

 After some discussion in another topic thread, I eventually concluded that the issue was simply down to a fault in or around the XO chip and returned it for a full refund and purchased from elsewhere, an identical looking SDG2042X to replace it.

 However, that doesn't mean I can retire my much abused (modified) FY6600-60M any time soon - it still has so much to offer (like a frequency setting interface that's a positive joy to use compared to the user hostile interface that all of Siglent's AWG models are currently cursed with).

John

Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: Johnny B Good on October 06, 2020, 12:07:34 pm
Quote from: gianluigi on July 25, 2020, 01:23:20 pm
Quote from: tautech on February 04, 2017, 10:49:55 pm
Quote from: janekivi on February 04, 2017, 10:44:14 pm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1057306/#msg1057306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1057306/#msg1057306)
If you want in... you already in... ok, with telnet then, I can only replace this with known password.
Which suggests this 30 MHz model might be able to be improved to 60 MHz.  :)

Who's game to try ?
I'm interested too!

 For those who haven't already discovered it, a less risky hacking method to upgrade to the 1062X was revealed back in January here:-

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg2876058/#msg2876058 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg2876058/#msg2876058)

Basically you use a dummy firmware update file to gain root access without modifying the existing firmware which is safer than actually downgrading to an earlier firmware version with known root password. You can then follow the instructions to backup and then edit the config files during that session. When done, you simply shut down, pull the pen drive out and reboot into the existing and unaltered firmware version as per any normal reboot. Checking the system info will show the model number changed to SDG1062X and you can dial in 60MHz for sine and square waves.

 Important, follow the thread to get the whole picture and take note of rf-loop's advice to e0ne199. When I was following this breadcrumb trail to upgrade one of these 1032s should I ever finally choose one over the 2042, I gathered quite a few files and studied them until I was reasonably confident I'd be able to follow the correct mix of instructions and not end up in a dead end from which I wouldn't be able to back out of (backing up the key original config files being my insurance against this outcome).

 The need to actually run through this process has gone away but looking at what files I had gathered, I get the distinct feeling I would have to re-study them all over again just to regain the understanding I believe I had attained just a couple of months back.

 Using the dummy firmware update file and keeping backup copies of any files you are going to change should remove the risk of turning it into a 'brick'.

HTH and HAND :)

John
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: velozipapa on December 20, 2021, 05:42:46 am
could you distribute this again, i cannot download it anymore
Title: Re: Siglent SDG1032X mini teardown (hidden self adjust)
Post by: Johnny B Good on December 20, 2021, 08:07:05 am
Quote from: velozipapa on December 20, 2021, 05:42:46 am
could you distribute this again, i cannot download it anymore

 The attached zip seems to be what you need but as I said, events made such a mod with the SDG1000 model redundant so I never got to try it out. The instructions are presented in two formats, a text file and a pdf file. The pdf is the easier to follow set of instructions ( they're both exactly the same instructions).

 I can't guarantee that this recipe is the best and safest one to follow but it does seem to avoid the risks associated with using an earlier firmware update version which had a known login user name and password so you might want to seek further advice from others better versed in the subject of hacking Siglent kit before testing the waters with both feet at once. ::)