Author Topic: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's  (Read 91548 times)

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Online tautechTopic starter

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Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« on: August 01, 2017, 04:54:02 am »
Models of 200, 350 and 500 MHz, 2 channels and 2.4GSa / s sampling rate with 16 bit vertical resolution.



Sine wave amplitude:
20 Vpp ? 40 MHz, high impedance load
10 Vpp 40 MHz to 120 MHz (inclusive), high impedance load
5 Vpp 120 MHz ~ 160 MHz (included), high impedance load
3 Vpp 160 MHz to 350 MHz (inclusive), high impedance load
1.28 Vpp above 350MHz

Square wave to 120 MHz, risetime 2.4 ns max.

196 built-in arbitrary waveforms.
Arbitrary memory depth 2-20 Mpts

Webpage
https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sdg6000x/
https://siglentna.com/waveform-generators/sdg6000x-series-pulsearbitrary-waveform-generator/

Datasheet:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDG6000X_datasheet.pdf

Review from Shahriar:
https://youtu.be/_2LcpH_JxYM
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 06:38:45 am by tautech »
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Siglent SDG6000 series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2017, 09:22:16 am »
Nice! The specs look pretty good, and it can do PRBS patterns and I/Q modulation as well.

Any ideas when these devices will be available outside China? And what the targeted RRP is for the various versions?

If they get the price right then I'd consider the 500Mhz variant. Hell, I'd even be willing to play beta tester for this thing if that means I could get one at reasonable conditions  ;)
 
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000 series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2017, 09:36:19 am »
Siglent will take 4 to 6 months before shipping out of the domestic market. Or at least this is what they use to do.
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000 series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2017, 09:46:49 am »
It seems there will be a SDG6000X-E version too starting at 160MHz
http://www.siglent.com/function-arb-generator/SDG6000X-E
Only for domestic market, will not be available out of China
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 12:03:50 pm by simone.pignatti »
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Offline Tsippaduida

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Re: Siglent SDG6000 series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2017, 12:05:23 pm »
This series actually interests me, no need to buy a Windows-machine (or license) to get wide range of functions out of this. Currently I have no need for fancy AVG, but you never know.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2017, 03:59:49 pm »
 

Offline Plasmateur

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2017, 11:44:50 pm »
Released in the Chinese marketplace but as yet no western market release date or pricing.
Models of 200, 350 and 500 MHz, 2 channels and 2.4GSa / s sampling rate with 16 bit vertical resolution.



Sine wave amplitude:
20 Vpp ? 40 MHz, high impedance load
10 Vpp 40 MHz to 120 MHz (inclusive), high impedance load
5 Vpp 120 MHz ~ 160 MHz (included), high impedance load
3 Vpp 160 MHz to 350 MHz (inclusive), high impedance load
1.28 Vpp above 350MHz

Square wave to 120 MHz, risetime 2.4 ns max.

196 built-in arbitrary waveforms.
Arbitrary memory depth 2-20 Mpts

Datasheet: (Chinese)
http://www.siglent.com/Chinese_website2014/Datasheet/SDG6000X_DataSheet_DS0206E-C01A.pdf

Very interested in one of these for my lab at work, as the SDG2042X has been pretty good to me except for that one thing they couldn't fix.
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2017, 12:47:38 am »
Released in the Chinese marketplace but as yet no western market release date or pricing.
Models of 200, 350 and 500 MHz, 2 channels and 2.4GSa / s sampling rate with 16 bit vertical resolution.



Sine wave amplitude:
20 Vpp ? 40 MHz, high impedance load
10 Vpp 40 MHz to 120 MHz (inclusive), high impedance load
5 Vpp 120 MHz ~ 160 MHz (included), high impedance load
3 Vpp 160 MHz to 350 MHz (inclusive), high impedance load
1.28 Vpp above 350MHz

Square wave to 120 MHz, risetime 2.4 ns max.

196 built-in arbitrary waveforms.
Arbitrary memory depth 2-20 Mpts

Datasheet: (Chinese)
http://www.siglent.com/Chinese_website2014/Datasheet/SDG6000X_DataSheet_DS0206E-C01A.pdf

Very interested in one of these for my lab at work, as the SDG2042X has been pretty good to me except for that one thing they couldn't fix.
I'd like to say that I can tell you more about the SDG6000X series but I passed on beta testing one as I wanted to focus on the 4 ch X-E that was offered at the same time too.  :scared:
Last I heard Wuerstchenhund might be getting one to beta test but Dave has unfortunately banned him from the forum so we've not likely to get much unless he PM's one of us. Last I looked at his profile he was keeping an eye on us all. He gave Siglent a good bit of stick over the years so I hope he makes some contribution to their products.

WRT 2042X, I'll have some more in a week or two and I'll reinvestigate the thing you wanted fixed/changed/added.
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2017, 03:10:34 pm »
Last Friday I went trough the specs of the Chinese PDF, it seems the 500MHz will be kind of unique product. It is not easy to create the best test set-up, for sure high frequency calibrate coaxial cables and at least a 1GHz bandwidth oscilloscope with high sampling rate and accurate vertical resolution. I'm not sure I'll be ready to test it before Xmas even if I will get then unit as soon as it will be available in EU.  :(
However I'm available for specific tests, if you are interested just drop me a line with your test requirement.
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2017, 08:45:51 am »
The European public launch for the SDG6000X is scheduled for November the 16th
It seems it will carry a surprise surprise for all of us ... the frequency maybe hackable as it is for the SDG2000X  :-+
Can't wait  :popcorn:
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Offline gby

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 03:23:01 pm »
Go an email Nov 10 from Circuit Specialists in the US showing  these generators up for order.
SDG6022X 200MHz $1,499 (back order ships 11/29/17)
SDG6032X 350Mhz  $3,339 (ships in 1-2 business days)
SDG6052X 500Mhz $5,299 (ships in 1-2 business days)

A fair bit pricier than the SDG2000x series but if you need the higher frequencies still probably a reasonable value.
 

Offline alreadystarted

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 08:26:23 pm »
I see this page on the English language site mentions a SDG6000X-E series.  But there's no listed devices from that series.  That's pretty interesting.  Anyone have more info on that?  Possibly from Chinese market?

The only details are just a note on rise times:
The rise/fall times of the SDG6000X can be set to as low as 1 ns (SDG6000X-E series as low as 2 ns), comparable to much higher – priced units.

http://www.siglent.com/ENs/qyxwxx.aspx?id=2217&sid=25
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 09:25:26 pm »
I see this page on the English language site mentions a SDG6000X-E series.  But there's no listed devices from that series.  That's pretty interesting.  Anyone have more info on that?  Possibly from Chinese market?

The only details are just a note on rise times:
The rise/fall times of the SDG6000X can be set to as low as 1 ns (SDG6000X-E series as low as 2 ns), comparable to much higher – priced units.

http://www.siglent.com/ENs/qyxwxx.aspx?id=2217&sid=25

SDG6000X-E only for domestic market

EU launch was planned for the 16th not sure why is already online.
For this reason on our website we have activated the 3 models and the IQ option too so you can check European pricing.
All models available.
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Offline bson

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 12:09:23 am »
 

Offline Qw3rtzuiop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2017, 01:32:27 pm »
Which scope is used in that video? Afaik there is no siglent scope with that high bandwidth. There is just a branding Siglent powered by LeCroy. Can we also expect a high bandwidth scope from siglent?
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2017, 01:53:48 pm »
SDS3000 or LeCroy WaveSurfer 3000 (same unit)
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Offline bson

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2017, 07:10:02 am »
It's not a WaveSurfer 3000 - it lacks the ProBus probe connectors and seems to have only basic BNC inputs.  Otherwise looks very similar, though white instead of black.  Interesting that the Siglent scope runs LeCroy firmware.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2017, 07:30:17 am »
I just checked again and I confirm is the SDS3000 (white version of the WaveSurfer 3000)
If you jump to 1’34” you can see the logic pod on the right.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2017, 08:38:43 am »
It's not a WaveSurfer 3000 - it lacks the ProBus probe connectors and seems to have only basic BNC inputs.  Otherwise looks very similar, though white instead of black.  Interesting that the Siglent scope runs LeCroy firmware.

It looks like  "alternative truth" aka "trumth" is so popular that it has to penetrate everywhere. Or how this must think?

Checking the facts.

TeledyneLecroy WaveSurfer 3000  is manufactured by Siglent and  is same as Siglent SDS3000.
Yes labels are different and outer case plastic color is different.

No ProBus in Siglent?  Where from this information come?
Look this image. Only BNC's ?

I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2017, 08:42:45 am »
Which scope is used in that video? Afaik there is no siglent scope with that high bandwidth. There is just a branding Siglent powered by LeCroy. Can we also expect a high bandwidth scope from siglent?
Maybe next year.
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2017, 08:54:11 am »
It's not a WaveSurfer 3000 - it lacks the ProBus probe connectors and seems to have only basic BNC inputs.  Otherwise looks very similar, though white instead of black.  Interesting that the Siglent scope runs LeCroy firmware.

It looks like  "alternative truth" aka "trumth" is so popular that it has to penetrate everywhere. Or how this must think?

Checking the facts.

TeledyneLecroy WaveSurfer 3000  is manufactured by Siglent and  is same as Siglent SDS3000.
Yes labels are different and outer case plastic color is different.

No ProBus in Siglent?  Where from this information come?
Look this image. Only BNC's ?
The probus in next to each BNC. Siglent and LeCroy are exactly the same.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2017, 10:23:58 am »
It's not a WaveSurfer 3000 - it lacks the ProBus probe connectors and seems to have only basic BNC inputs.  Otherwise looks very similar, though white instead of black.  Interesting that the Siglent scope runs LeCroy firmware.

It looks like  "alternative truth" aka "trumth" is so popular that it has to penetrate everywhere. Or how this must think?

Checking the facts.

TeledyneLecroy WaveSurfer 3000  is manufactured by Siglent and  is same as Siglent SDS3000.
Yes labels are different and outer case plastic color is different.

No ProBus in Siglent?  Where from this information come?
Look this image. Only BNC's ?
The probus in next to each BNC. Siglent and LeCroy are exactly the same.

I know this of course.
 
But @bson  "know" the "alternative truth".
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2017, 10:50:42 am »
Which scope is used in that video? Afaik there is no siglent scope with that high bandwidth. There is just a branding Siglent powered by LeCroy. Can we also expect a high bandwidth scope from siglent?
Maybe next year.

hopefully with more horsepower and capacitive touch instead of that crappy resistive one.. it's been a real pain to use that lecroy
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2017, 09:12:31 am »
Which scope is used in that video? Afaik there is no siglent scope with that high bandwidth. There is just a branding Siglent powered by LeCroy. Can we also expect a high bandwidth scope from siglent?
Maybe next year.

hopefully with more horsepower and capacitive touch instead of that crappy resistive one.. it's been a real pain to use that lecroy
I didn't try the touch screen when I was at the Siglent factory 3 years back, only the physical controls, however I don't hear of negative comments of the SDG2000X AWG touch screen so one would imagine any touch interface for a new high BW Siglent DSO will follow the experience gained with the popular SDG2000X series.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-products-sds3000-series-oscilloscopes/msg558936/#msg558936
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2017, 11:32:15 am »
well, screen is about twice as big..
in the lecroy we demoed the touchscreen was so bad that you had to press too hard to use it and when you didn't move your finger the cursor would move frenetically. with a stylus, not so bad but at that point i'd rather use a mouse thank you very much :(
 

Offline smarteebit

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2017, 07:12:51 am »
Has anyone got the AWG? Any review or comment?
 

Offline emax

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2017, 07:40:27 pm »
Batronix Germany has them on stock and delivers:

https://www.batronix.com/versand/siglent/SDG6000X.html


PS: The SDG6022X is out of stock now. That was a short pleasure.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 07:45:03 pm by emax »
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2017, 07:43:01 pm »
We also got delivered them today and already made an unboxing video on YouTube.
Next week a video testing the 500MHz with an oscilloscope   :-+
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Offline emax

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2017, 07:49:14 pm »
Hi Simone,

I'am currently sitting in the office in Trento, maybe you're not so far away ?
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2017, 07:51:30 pm »
We are in Bologna. People are welcome to come to our office and test all kind of equipment.
So yes, come for some test and tortellini :)
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Offline emax

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2017, 08:00:39 pm »
Pasta, oh yes, I love it  :-+

Bologna is just around the corner (at least compared to eevblog), around 200Km from Trento - which you do of course know yourself ;-)
 
But no way, I'm on the job here - though I'll keep it in mind. Both, the shop and the tortellini!  ^-^

« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 08:02:40 pm by emax »
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2017, 08:01:08 pm »
Tomorrow morning I will be able to test the SDG6052X with a LeCroy HDO6104A 12 bit 1GHz
I should be able to test the sine wave. I’ll do my best to make a short video and print screen to share.
Please send me test request before tomorrow morning!
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2017, 08:03:45 pm »
Pasta, oh yes, I love it  :-+

But no way, I'm on the job here - though I'll keep it in mind. Both, the shop and the tortellini!  ^-^
Are you in a electronic lab? Let me know if you like equipment delivered to your office for a test.
Ciao
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Offline emax

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2017, 08:04:13 pm »
Request: Maximum sinewave voltage across entire frequency-range.
 

Offline emax

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2017, 08:06:21 pm »
Are you in a electronic lab? Let me know if you like equipment delivered to your office for a test.

No, I am a software architect, not even embedded. But doesn't matter: I am in the lucky situation to do electronics just for fun. :-)

But thank you anyway, very kind offer.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2017, 11:28:51 am »
Check this image! Video coming in few minutes.

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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2017, 11:55:31 am »
Forgive me for any mistake I could have done.

https://youtu.be/DpxAsNBt-hY
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Offline dpenev

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2017, 06:35:11 pm »
Hi simone.pignatti,

Thank you for the measurements.
Does you scope has 50 Ohm input? If yes please measure as you set 50 Ohm at both generator and the scope.

High impedance termination of your cable is not very good for this kind of measurement you have done.

Also it will be nice if you can hook spectrum analyzer and show spectrum purity around single tone.

Dimitar

 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 06:42:47 pm by dpenev »
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2017, 06:39:17 pm »
Yes. Did it after the video. Almost same results!
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Offline dpenev

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2017, 06:58:26 pm »
If i understand the SDG6052X specification right
we should expect -3dB drop at 500MHz with 50 Ohm termination

Or you should see only 30% level drop switching 0.5Vpp sine wave from 10MHz into 500MHz     
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 07:00:09 pm by dpenev »
 

Offline smarteebit

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2017, 02:14:50 am »
Hi simone.pignatti,

Thank you for the measurements.
Does you scope has 50 Ohm input? If yes please measure as you set 50 Ohm at both generator and the scope.

High impedance termination of your cable is not very good for this kind of measurement you have done.

Also it will be nice if you can hook spectrum analyzer and show spectrum purity around single tone.

Dimitar

 

+1.

The sine wave looks in good shape while the the amplitude is obviously not in spec. I think this is caused by the 1M input impedance setting on the scope. Reflection happens on the scope input port if it is not 50ohm impedance, and this may introduce huge amplitude distortion in high frequency.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2017, 06:45:24 am »
This is totally wrong way to measure signal generator amplitude flatness and accuracy from low frequencies up to 500MHz. There is all wrong. Totally. Even if you connect external 50ohm terminator to oscilloscope input it is wrong. This oscilloscope have 50ohm internal selectable impedance but even if there is oscilloscope internal 50ohm input many times they are not at all well enough for accurate amplitude flatness measurements. Because many times they are not enough accurate 50ohm impedance over whole frequency band. Oscilloscope specs say only -3dB @ 50ohm without more detailed data. Also this cable looks like some audio quality coaxial.

About external feed thru terminator (what do not with this oscilloscope exept if want go over oscilloscope specified max level with its internal 50ohm) connected to oscilloscpe 1Mohm example 16pF input (what in real world have all three: resistance, capasitive reactance and also some inductive reactance.  Result is far away from 50ohm if look 500MHz (problems start in practice when we go roughly saying over 100MHz  and more and more out of order what higher freq we go.  If it is 50ohm terminator with coaxial T - this is most crap way. Specially if terminator is cheap "Ethernet network grade crap terminator".  Without perfect impedance match you work with standing waves what amplify your signal with some frequency anmd attenuate with some frequency, dpending these waves phase. Also these reflected return to generator output may affect its ALC depending how it is done some generators.

Fun side note about this oscilloscope. Sad that this level of scope have this kind of trigger jitter. Visible around video time position 12.15. Do they have at all fine interpolation for accurate positioning. Also there was linear interpolation. Sinc interpolation is better for sinewave like signals. 

For good level flatness measurements you need different tools. 500MHz is not anymore "audio".
Rough measurements you can do using enough good and trusted SA, also it can show  something about sinewave quality. If you claim from oscilloscope screen that sinewave quality is very very good it is bit loosy to say so.  Simply, it is difficult to see it from oscilloscope screen, exept if we talk about very poor sinewave what have very high levels of harmonics or other impurities. Example if there is second harmonic.
Think we simply combine 500MHz 0dBm  sinewave  and then 1000MHz -30dBm sinewave and this combined wave you connect to oscilloscope. What you see. Looks like quite pure 500MHz sinewave. How about if this, 500MHz sine,  1000MHz (500MHz 2. harmonic) is -20dBm and then 3. harmonic (1500MHz) is example -40dBm. Still you can see it is quite nice looking sine shape in oscilloscope screen. But in reality, it is quite poor.
 
Just for info so that random reader do not need calculate: With 500MHz,  16pF reactance is 19.9 ohms!
(16pF is because in this example it is nominal 1M input capacitance with this named oscilloscope.)



Summarized briefly:
This video do not tell anything about SDG6000 amplitude accuracy or flatness or sinewave quality.
It can be worse or better or what ever. This test is faulty for this purpose.
But, other ways still very nice to see this LeCroy model and this Siglent model live in video.
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2017, 07:13:01 am »
Hi rf-loop , thanks for your comment. Yes my test setup wasn't the best and as stated I had very limited time. The idea was to show the unit working.
We are collecting better quality cables and will perform new tests in the short future to be shared.
However I was well impressed by the sine wave shape, in the past I tried other units and when generating the sine wave the results (already at half of the stated max value) wa horrible. Thanks again for helping with your experience!
Technical Support
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2017, 08:23:28 am »
The idea was to show the unit working.
We are collecting better quality cables and will perform new tests in the short future to be shared.
However I was well impressed by the sine wave shape, in the past I tried other units and when generating the sine wave the results (already at half of the stated max value) wa horrible.

Yes, it was nice to see this equipment live in video.

But, oscilloscope, even with good signal pathway from generator to scope, is wrong way to characterize  signal generator amplitude flatness over whole frequency range from LF to 500MHz.  First thing is oscilloscope itself flatness. Other thing is inaccuracy with transmission from signal gen to oscilloscope.

One good instrument for flatness measurement is wide band good power meter. Something like example Keysight U2004A  power meter or some other like this.  (with these need note that they measure total, including harmonics because they are wide band power meters. With selective level receivcers can walk over this. ) Also many spectrum analyzers are much better flatness than most of oscilloscopes.
If you have there Siglent SSA3000X you can use it. It give typically better than 1dB accuracy and now you see also more details about sine wave quality.  If you need good RF cables with good connector. Example with Huber-Suhner or Rosenberger can not go very wrong.   (there is also other goods and after then tons of total crap cables with crap connectors. Mostly these cheap crap (even if they looks like good) are useless because you can not trust anything and all tests are  just  more bad as weakest part of test setup because total error is sum of all errors and all errors can be just worst side position - or not.

10MHz is easy. 100MHz need bit more. 500MHz need really think RF. 1GHz and over, all fun magick start where 8nH inductance reactance is 50ohm and this kind of inductance is example 19mm long and 5mm thick straight copper rod. ;)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 08:42:13 am by rf-loop »
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Offline Plasmateur

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2017, 05:42:11 pm »
Does this pretty much have the same functionality as the SDG2000X series?

Would it be possible to do both a burst and sweep?

1.) Flat/no signal.
2.) send SDG6000X a trigger
3.) SDG sends a signal beginning at some phase and sweeps from X frequency to Y frequency.



 

Offline dpenev

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2017, 10:34:23 pm »
I have probed the sine wave flatness of the SDG6052X in the whole frequency band
using SSA3021X and relatively good coax.

My results:
1MHz     +0.08dBm
100MHz  -0.03dBm
200MHz  -0.17dBm
300MHz  -0.15dBm
350MHz  -0.39dBm
400MHz  -0.11dBm
450MHz  -0.23dBm
500MHz  -0.29dBm
 
Some of the deviation is due to the generator but also some due to the cable and due to analyzer.
So the instrument seems to match its specified amplitude flatness +/-0.3dB

So far so good
Dimitar
 
 
 
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Offline JohnG

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2018, 06:35:08 pm »
Has anyone else had any experience with one of these? I have an SDG2042X, but am likely to need both higher frequency operation and faster rise/fall times.

Also, wondering if it has essentially the same command set as the SDG2000x series, since I have some ATE software that presently controls the SDG2042x and would like to avoid changing it.

Thanks,
John
"Reality is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick (RIP).
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2018, 07:03:41 pm »
Has anyone else had any experience with one of these? I have an SDG2042X, but am likely to need both higher frequency operation and faster rise/fall times.

Also, wondering if it has essentially the same command set as the SDG2000x series, since I have some ATE software that presently controls the SDG2042x and would like to avoid changing it.

Thanks,
John
I'm going to get one sometime in the next month or so but simone.pignatti should be able to give you some info as he has one.
There's a new SDG series programming guide that includes the new commands for the added features in the 6kX models. The basic command set will be the same.
Here's the new programming manual:
http://siglenteu.com/dow.aspx?u=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zaWdsZW50YW1lcmljYS5jb20vVVNBX3dlYnNpdGVfMjAxNC9Eb2N1bWVudHMvUHJvZ3JhbV9NYXRlcmlhbC9TREdfUHJvZ3JhbW1pbmdHdWlkZV9QR19FMDNCLnBkZg%3d%3d
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Offline Deuze

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2018, 07:42:51 am »
Got mine after a long waiting.
Always on a trip....
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2018, 08:23:24 am »
Got mine after a long waiting.
Model ?
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Offline Ghislain

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2018, 07:28:56 am »
This is the video review I personally like the most so far  :D

 
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Offline emax

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2018, 12:46:43 pm »
I have a question related to the "pulse" parameter settings.

The manual (and the monitor as well) states that (besides amplitude, offset, load etc.) you can set frequency or period, rise- and fall time, and pulse-width or dutycycle.

With these parameters, I would have guessed, that the horizontal shape of the pulse is completely described. But there is another parameter called "delay". The manual explains how to set this, all nice and dandy. But I haven't found an axplanation what the delay is and where in the pattern it resides.

So I guess that this a unique one-time delay at the very beginning of the output. Or did I miss something?
 
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Offline siglent5

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2018, 08:32:13 am »
The ''delay'' of pulse  can be considered to  the ''phase'' of sine or other waveform.The maximum phase of the waveform is 360 degrees,so the maximum delay is one period of the pulse.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2018, 02:26:07 am »
Just got some SDG6022X for a customer so a quick first look (for me) at what these are like.
First thing noted they are the same physical size as SDG1kX and 2kX AWG's but they also have a smart fan that when first turned on is very quiet. The basic UI's between these 3 series is very similar. Running a 80 MHz squarewave for a while had the fan going but certainly no worse than a DSO.

SDG6022X (200 MHz) 80 MHz squarewave, max p-p into 50 \$\Omega\$
SDS2304X, Siglent BNC cable.

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Online radiolistener

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2018, 04:03:53 am »
200 MHz model looks good for home lab, but it's too expensive.
I think it's a crazy to buy so expensive generator for a hobby purposes.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 04:09:09 am by radiolistener »
 
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Offline jgalak

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2018, 04:09:01 am »
Does anyone know if the SDG6022X is "upgradable" to 500MHz? 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2018, 02:58:39 pm »
Does anyone know if the SDG6022X is "upgradable" to 500MHz?

It should be. Do you know how to enter licenses via SCPI?

To ease the life to every owner:

root:$1$NLwMj1Ox$1y4YFcXYiZILqUehDFKuB1:15672:0:99999:7:::

Just have to crack it. I can't.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 07:37:22 pm by tv84 »
 

Offline janekivi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2018, 07:54:19 pm »
...and for all other model owners as the password is the same
 

Offline KaneTW

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2018, 09:01:19 pm »
That makes this a very attractive unit. Nice.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2018, 09:20:13 pm »
It can be done.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 10:25:38 pm by tv84 »
 
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Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2018, 09:23:49 pm »
It can be done.
Wow.
That's a big $$ saving !  :scared:
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 04:55:26 am by tautech »
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Offline BillB

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2018, 10:52:27 pm »
nice job, tv84!  :clap:
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2018, 10:52:53 am »
New firmware for SDG6000X series.

Version 6.01.01.29R10
26.2 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/6886/

Changelog
1. Optimized TrueArb algorithm and added 3 types of interpolation: sinc, sinc27 and sinc13
2. Optimized jitter performance of Square and Pulse
3. Optimized algorithm of Noise generating so the bandwidth setting lower limit of Noise optimized from 80 MHz to 1 mHz
4. [2017/12/22-174663] Changed the clock switch strategy: When the clock source is set to External and no actual external clock signal is being received, the clock source will not switch to Internal automatically but the clock icon will indicate that external clock is lost
5. [2017/12/22-174663] Changed default state of 10 MHz Out to "Disable"
6. Added Slave Delay option in Multi-Device Synchronization function
7. Added indicator for double function of the soft keys
8. Fixed the following bugs:
a) Crashes when downloading 20 Mpts waveform data from the EasyWave program
b) Inaccurate burst delay
c) In TrueArb mode enabling AM with large amplitude may trigger OVP
d) Switching the waveform from IQ to sine with large amplitude may trigger OVP
e) Switching off the output on the SDG6kX only drops the output level by approx 20 dB but does not completely switch it off
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Offline JohnG

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2018, 02:25:25 pm »
New firmware for SDG6000X series.

Version 6.01.01.29R10
26.2 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/6886/

Changelog
2. Optimized jitter performance of Square and Pulse


Do you know what "optimized jitter performance" means in terms of specification?

Thanks,
John
"Reality is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick (RIP).
 

Offline janekivi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2018, 04:21:05 pm »
I know what "New firmware for SDG6000X series" means in technical terms.
It means: we can change root password.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2018, 05:16:41 pm »
It means: we can change root password.

Now, at last, "officially".

Code: [Select]
File Header Size: 00000070
00000000 - File Checksum: 3492CF01 [00000004-0199B704] (with only the File Header decrypted)  CKSM OK
00000004 - File Size: 0199B695 (without 0x70 bytes of the File Header)
0000000C - Product_ID: 10800
00000026 - Vendor/Brand: SIGLENT
0000003A - USB Host Controller: ISP1763
****************************************************
Decrypting the 0x2800 and 0x1400 blocks...
Reversing file...
XORing with 0xFF (incrementing pattern)...
XORing with 0xFF from 0x00CCDB4B until 0x0199B694
****************************************************
00000000 --- Section Checksum: 2E68F57E
00000004 --- Section Size: 0199B661 [00000034-0199B694]  CKSM OK
00000008 --- Section # 00000007
00000034 --- 0199B694  ***** ZIP file *****
Offset    Ver  Flag  Comp  Size      Packed    Modified             CRC32                          Name         Permissions     Extra Details
00000034  1.0  0000  0000  00000000  00000000  26-06-2018 17:19:03  00000000  [00000059-00000058]  config/
00000059  1.0  0000  0000  00000000  00000000  26-06-2018 17:19:03  00000000  [00000082-00000081]  config/arb/
00000082  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000EF3C  30-03-2018 22:13:10  B1F7055B  [000000B9-0000EFF4]  config/arb/0_sine_ram.bin
0000EFF5  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BE93  30-03-2018 22:13:10  4E8F563F  [0000F02F-0001AEC1]  config/arb/100_ecg11_ram.bin
0001AEC2  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C3F1  30-03-2018 22:13:10  6BF84577  [0001AEFC-000272EC]  config/arb/101_ecg12_ram.bin
000272ED  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000CD17  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C3802FFA  [00027327-0003403D]  config/arb/102_ecg13_ram.bin
0003403E  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000CFB5  30-03-2018 22:13:10  A24DDF5A  [00034078-0004102C]  config/arb/103_ecg14_ram.bin
0004102D  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C272  30-03-2018 22:13:10  1D799C83  [00041067-0004D2D8]  config/arb/104_ecg15_ram.bin
0004D2D9  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BF1E  30-03-2018 22:13:10  F2F294C7  [0004D315-00059232]  config/arb/105_lfpulse_ram.bin
00059233  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00009F95  30-03-2018 22:13:10  942FCB67  [0005926D-00063201]  config/arb/106_tens1_ram.bin
00063202  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  000002D0  30-03-2018 22:13:10  B9AC8FAB  [0006323C-0006350B]  config/arb/107_tens2_ram.bin
0006350C  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00002136  30-03-2018 22:13:10  518DA7BC  [00063546-0006567B]  config/arb/108_tens3_ram.bin
0006567C  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  000061E6  30-03-2018 22:13:10  554389D3  [000656B5-0006B89A]  config/arb/109_airy_ram.bin
0006B89B  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000A182  30-03-2018 22:13:10  62F9139D  [0006B8D7-00075A58]  config/arb/10_exp_fall_ram.bin
00075A59  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000EB0E  30-03-2018 22:13:10  58968693  [00075A95-000845A2]  config/arb/110_besselj_ram.bin
000845A3  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BA47  30-03-2018 22:13:10  2AE115C0  [000845DF-00090025]  config/arb/111_bessely_ram.bin
00090026  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000ECC0  30-03-2018 22:13:10  13D87C2F  [00090064-0009ED23]  config/arb/112_dirichlet_ram.bin
0009ED24  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000B7CE  30-03-2018 22:13:10  6361D3D4  [0009ED5C-000AA529]  config/arb/113_erf_ram.bin
000AA52A  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BF6F  30-03-2018 22:13:10  22D799F8  [000AA563-000B64D1]  config/arb/114_erfc_ram.bin
000B64D2  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C38E  30-03-2018 22:13:10  49212B1C  [000B650E-000C289B]  config/arb/115_erfcinv_ram.bin
000C289C  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C4C2  30-03-2018 22:13:10  3A74BF25  [000C28D7-000CED98]  config/arb/116_erfinv_ram.bin
000CED99  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C385  30-03-2018 22:13:10  4F47BAD9  [000CEDD6-000DB15A]  config/arb/117_laguerre_ram.bin
000DB15B  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C819  30-03-2018 22:13:10  1658CA7F  [000DB196-000E79AE]  config/arb/118_legend_ram.bin
000E79AF  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000CCFA  30-03-2018 22:13:10  6FB2EB66  [000E79EC-000F46E5]  config/arb/119_versiera_ram.bin
000F46E6  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000A183  30-03-2018 22:13:10  6BC5E338  [000F4722-000FE8A4]  config/arb/11_exp_rise_ram.bin
000FE8A5  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  000093D6  30-03-2018 22:13:10  BE68741A  [000FE8E1-00107CB6]  config/arb/120_weibull_ram.bin
00107CB7  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000DDB2  30-03-2018 22:13:10  F5390B5B  [00107CF5-00115AA6]  config/arb/121_lognormal_ram.bin
00115AA7  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F1C2  30-03-2018 22:13:10  E58083D0  [00115AE3-00124CA4]  config/arb/122_laplace_ram.bin
00124CA5  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000A350  30-03-2018 22:13:10  74F9E16B  [00124CE1-0012F030]  config/arb/123_maxwell_ram.bin
0012F031  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000AF0F  30-03-2018 22:13:10  0729FBCB  [0012F06E-00139F7C]  config/arb/124_rayleigh_ram.bin
00139F7D  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000D3F4  30-03-2018 22:13:10  34018AC5  [00139FB8-001473AB]  config/arb/125_cauchy_ram.bin
001473AC  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C250  30-03-2018 22:13:10  E585FA7E  [001473E5-00153634]  config/arb/126_cosh_ram.bin
00153635  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00005575  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C949B875  [00153670-00158BE4]  config/arb/127_cosint_ram.bin
00158BE5  2.0  0000  0008  0000412A  00000A4F  30-03-2018 22:13:10  8B96B9E9  [00158C18-00159666]  config/arb/128QAM.wav
00159667  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00002784  30-03-2018 22:13:10  9E3728E9  [001596A0-0015BE23]  config/arb/128_coth_ram.bin
0015BE24  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00003BF1  30-03-2018 22:13:10  52A153E0  [0015BE5D-0015FA4D]  config/arb/129_csch_ram.bin
0015FA4E  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00009A77  30-03-2018 22:13:10  A0A3C424  [0015FA89-001694FF]  config/arb/12_logfall_ram.bin
00169500  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BE75  30-03-2018 22:13:10  BAA95447  [00169539-001753AD]  config/arb/130_sech_ram.bin
001753AE  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000A58C  30-03-2018 22:13:10  68A86E5F  [001753E7-0017F972]  config/arb/131_sinh_ram.bin
0017F973  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000AB2F  30-03-2018 22:13:10  16E5F37F  [0017F9AE-0018A4DC]  config/arb/132_sinint_ram.bin
0018A4DD  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00007766  30-03-2018 22:13:10  EAB472AB  [0018A516-00191C7B]  config/arb/133_tanh_ram.bin
00191C7C  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F0D1  30-03-2018 22:13:10  3A4F74B6  [00191CB6-001A0D86]  config/arb/134_acosh_ram.bin
001A0D87  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00008BE1  30-03-2018 22:13:10  B9FD11CA  [001A0DC1-001A99A1]  config/arb/135_asech_ram.bin
001A99A2  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F686  30-03-2018 22:13:10  F75E3C13  [001A99DC-001B9061]  config/arb/136_asinh_ram.bin
001B9062  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  000089B0  30-03-2018 22:13:10  828619AD  [001B909C-001C1A4B]  config/arb/137_atanh_ram.bin
001C1A4C  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00008357  30-03-2018 22:13:10  F763152F  [001C1A86-001C9DDC]  config/arb/138_acsch_ram.bin
001C9DDD  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00002B83  30-03-2018 22:13:10  E8D330BF  [001C9E17-001CC999]  config/arb/139_acoth_ram.bin
001CC99A  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00009A75  30-03-2018 22:13:10  A99F3481  [001CC9D5-001D6449]  config/arb/13_logrise_ram.bin
001D644A  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F248  30-03-2018 22:13:10  1691575C  [001D6487-001E56CE]  config/arb/140_bartlett_ram.bin
001E56CF  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000FF09  30-03-2018 22:13:10  3CA8587B  [001E570F-001F5617]  config/arb/141_barthannwin_ram.bin
001F5618  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000E18F  30-03-2018 22:13:10  9243E29D  [001F5656-002037E4]  config/arb/142_bohmanwin_ram.bin
002037E5  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000D9A8  30-03-2018 22:13:10  6492DB5A  [00203821-002111C8]  config/arb/143_chebwin_ram.bin
002111C9  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C6FE  30-03-2018 22:13:10  D64B1A3D  [00211208-0021D905]  config/arb/144_flattopwin_ram.bin
0021D906  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000DA9B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  B7077A2F  [0021D944-0022B3DE]  config/arb/145_parzenwin_ram.bin
0022B3DF  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F43F  30-03-2018 22:13:10  E37C838A  [0022B41D-0023A85B]  config/arb/146_taylorwin_ram.bin
0023A85C  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00007D94  30-03-2018 22:13:10  222AB8C7  [0023A899-0024262C]  config/arb/147_tukeywin_ram.bin
0024262D  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  1861B3BB  [0024266B-002426C3]  config/arb/148_square_duty01.bin
002426C4  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  82EFE13B  [00242702-0024275A]  config/arb/149_square_duty02.bin
0024275B  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F83D  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C48745E9  [00242793-00251FCF]  config/arb/14_sqrt_ram.bin
00251FD0  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  304795EA  [0025200E-00252067]  config/arb/150_square_duty04.bin
00252068  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000058  30-03-2018 22:13:10  B9BF3283  [002520A6-002520FD]  config/arb/151_square_duty06.bin
002520FE  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  939CA0FD  [0025213C-00252195]  config/arb/152_square_duty08.bin
00252196  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  3FE99976  [002521D4-0025222D]  config/arb/153_square_duty10.bin
0025222E  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000058  30-03-2018 22:13:10  D72A4B1C  [0025226C-002522C3]  config/arb/154_square_duty12.bin
002522C4  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  98CBCF7B  [00252301-00252359]  config/arb/155_quare_duty14.bin
0025235A  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  3512B741  [00252398-002523F0]  config/arb/156_square_duty16.bin
002523F1  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  213B5B4D  [0025242F-00252487]  config/arb/157_square_duty18.bin
00252488  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C474C4F3  [002524C6-0025251E]  config/arb/158_square_duty20.bin
0025251F  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  25EC0A77  [0025255D-002525B5]  config/arb/159_square_duty22.bin
002525B6  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000DF25  30-03-2018 22:13:10  115F5A42  [002525EF-00260513]  config/arb/15_root3_ram.bin
00260514  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  8D52DE44  [00260552-002605AA]  config/arb/160_square_duty24.bin
002605AB  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  DBE7401D  [002605E9-00260641]  config/arb/161_square_duty26.bin
00260642  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  CE0520FD  [00260680-002606D8]  config/arb/162_square_duty28.bin
002606D9  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  00920F3B  [00260717-0026076F]  config/arb/163_square_duty30.bin
00260770  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  F122C564  [002607AE-00260806]  config/arb/164_square_duty32.bin
00260807  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  3B6E351A  [00260845-0026089D]  config/arb/165_square_duty34.bin
0026089E  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  4353928B  [002608DC-00260934]  config/arb/166_square_duty36.bin
00260935  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000058  30-03-2018 22:13:10  413D5E36  [00260973-002609CA]  config/arb/167_square_duty38.bin
002609CB  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  7C83F164  [00260A09-00260A62]  config/arb/168_square_duty40.bin
00260A63  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  9EE7BB00  [00260AA1-00260AFA]  config/arb/169_square_duty42.bin
00260AFB  2.0  0000  0008  00004128  0000255E  30-03-2018 22:13:10  20FFC115  [00260B2D-0026308A]  config/arb/16QAM.wav
0026308B  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F11B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C9B6E33A  [002630C2-002721DC]  config/arb/16_x^2_ram.bin
002721DD  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000058  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C38AA9FD  [0027221B-00272272]  config/arb/170_square_duty44.bin
00272273  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  CBFC1F28  [002722B1-0027230A]  config/arb/171_square_duty46.bin
0027230B  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  D76651FA  [00272349-002723A2]  config/arb/172_square_duty48.bin
002723A3  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000057  30-03-2018 22:13:10  42922C71  [002723E1-00272437]  config/arb/173_square_duty50.bin
00272438  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  E4F65825  [00272476-002724CF]  config/arb/174_square_duty52.bin
002724D0  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  0E779380  [0027250E-00272567]  config/arb/175_square_duty54.bin
00272568  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000058  30-03-2018 22:13:10  FC9A26F2  [002725A6-002725FD]  config/arb/176_square_duty56.bin
002725FE  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  2558AEBE  [0027263C-00272695]  config/arb/177_square_duty58.bin
00272696  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  68C72279  [002726D4-0027272D]  config/arb/178_square_duty60.bin
0027272E  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000058  30-03-2018 22:13:10  A5F9C0FC  [0027276C-002727C3]  config/arb/179_square_duty62.bin
002727C4  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000B772  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C6AD7960  [002727FB-0027DF6C]  config/arb/17_x^3_ram.bin
0027DF6D  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  ED598744  [0027DFAB-0027E003]  config/arb/180_square_duty64.bin
0027E004  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  4462F39C  [0027E042-0027E09A]  config/arb/181_square_duty66.bin
0027E09B  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  EA29B4BF  [0027E0D9-0027E131]  config/arb/182_square_duty68.bin
0027E132  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  75FF6C95  [0027E170-0027E1C8]  config/arb/183_square_duty70.bin
0027E1C9  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  82148736  [0027E207-0027E25F]  config/arb/184_square_duty72.bin
0027E260  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  BE74B4BF  [0027E29E-0027E2F6]  config/arb/185_square_duty74.bin
0027E2F7  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  EC61321A  [0027E335-0027E38D]  config/arb/186_square_duty76.bin
0027E38E  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  44DCD1A9  [0027E3CC-0027E424]  config/arb/187_square_duty78.bin
0027E425  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  7CEA24CC  [0027E463-0027E4BB]  config/arb/188_square_duty80.bin
0027E4BC  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  BFF920D5  [0027E4FA-0027E552]  config/arb/189_square_duty82.bin
0027E553  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000B521  30-03-2018 22:13:10  1818E01B  [0027E58B-00289AAB]  config/arb/18_sinc_ram.bin
00289AAC  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  DE98C289  [00289AEA-00289B42]  config/arb/190_square_duty84.bin
00289B43  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  91AEF330  [00289B81-00289BD9]  config/arb/191_square_duty86.bin
00289BDA  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000058  30-03-2018 22:13:10  36DDF3D4  [00289C18-00289C6F]  config/arb/192_square_duty88.bin
00289C70  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  7BCE461B  [00289CAE-00289D07]  config/arb/193_square_duty90.bin
00289D08  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  00B1CBC4  [00289D46-00289D9F]  config/arb/194_square_duty92.bin
00289DA0  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000058  30-03-2018 22:13:10  20CEA2C3  [00289DDE-00289E35]  config/arb/195_square_duty94.bin
00289E36  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  9A813AC7  [00289E74-00289ECD]  config/arb/196_square_duty96.bin
00289ECE  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000005A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  E9728D70  [00289F0C-00289F65]  config/arb/197_square_duty98.bin
00289F66  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000059  30-03-2018 22:13:10  1B62D645  [00289FA4-00289FFC]  config/arb/198_square_duty99.bin
00289FFD  2.0  0000  0008  000002EE  00000022  30-03-2018 22:13:10  5A7659F3  [0028A03A-0028A05B]  config/arb/199_demo1_375pts.bin
0028A05C  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C1AC  30-03-2018 22:13:10  754B6831  [0028A097-00296242]  config/arb/19_gussian_ram.bin
00296243  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F9F6  30-03-2018 22:13:10  069EF566  [0029627B-002A5C70]  config/arb/1_noise_ram.bin
002A5C71  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000006F  30-03-2018 22:13:10  48591011  [002A5CAE-002A5D1C]  config/arb/200_demo1_16kpts.bin
002A5D1D  2.0  0000  0008  00001770  00000048  30-03-2018 22:13:10  7C4E9B2E  [002A5D59-002A5DA0]  config/arb/201_demo2_3kpts.bin
002A5DA1  2.0  0000  0008  00008000  00000067  30-03-2018 22:13:10  DBFC2D6F  [002A5DDE-002A5E44]  config/arb/202_demo2_16kpts.bin
002A5E45  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F6E0  30-03-2018 22:13:10  1BC74ED8  [002A5E89-002B5568]  config/arb/203_sine_harmonic2_wave.bin
002B5569  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F65B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C69870D7  [002B55AD-002C4C07]  config/arb/204_sine_harmonic3_wave.bin
002C4C08  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00003F14  30-03-2018 22:13:10  DDABDF02  [002C4C4C-002C8B5F]  config/arb/205_sine_harmonic4_wave.bin
002C8B60  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F7C5  30-03-2018 22:13:10  411C783B  [002C8BA4-002D8368]  config/arb/206_sine_harmonic5_wave.bin
002D8369  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F772  30-03-2018 22:13:10  1FB6A772  [002D83AD-002E7B1E]  config/arb/207_sine_harmonic6_wave.bin
002E7B1F  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F6FB  30-03-2018 22:13:10  23DC7C6B  [002E7B63-002F725D]  config/arb/208_sine_harmonic7_wave.bin
002F725E  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00001F9E  30-03-2018 22:13:10  149C22D7  [002F72A2-002F923F]  config/arb/209_sine_harmonic8_wave.bin
002F9240  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000778C  30-03-2018 22:13:10  BF56E815  [002F927C-00300A07]  config/arb/20_dlorentz_ram.bin
00300A08  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F6EB  30-03-2018 22:13:10  9ADD73E3  [00300A4C-00310136]  config/arb/210_sine_harmonic9_wave.bin
00310137  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F80E  30-03-2018 22:13:10  0DC757DD  [0031017C-0031F989]  config/arb/211_sine_harmonic10_wave.bin
0031F98A  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F705  30-03-2018 22:13:10  D355BECD  [0031F9CF-0032F0D3]  config/arb/212_sine_harmonic11_wave.bin
0032F0D4  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00003FE0  30-03-2018 22:13:10  01E387B8  [0032F119-003330F8]  config/arb/213_sine_harmonic12_wave.bin
003330F9  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F823  30-03-2018 22:13:10  7EA1671C  [0033313E-00342960]  config/arb/214_sine_harmonic13_wave.bin
00342961  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F877  30-03-2018 22:13:10  E9A7207C  [003429A6-0035221C]  config/arb/215_sine_harmonic14_wave.bin
0035221D  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F78F  30-03-2018 22:13:10  BE21AE87  [00352262-003619F0]  config/arb/216_sine_harmonic15_wave.bin
003619F1  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000111C  30-03-2018 22:13:10  32DE0B3A  [00361A36-00362B51]  config/arb/217_sine_harmonic16_wave.bin
00362B52  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F3ED  30-03-2018 22:13:10  CA7AEE0B  [00362B8F-00371F7B]  config/arb/21_haversine_ram.bin
00371F7C  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  000093E8  30-03-2018 22:13:10  88C57271  [00371FB7-0037B39E]  config/arb/22_lorentz_ram.bin
0037B39F  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000CAB0  30-03-2018 22:13:10  6A602CC3  [0037B3DB-00387E8A]  config/arb/23_gauspuls_ram.bin
00387E8B  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000D4EA  30-03-2018 22:13:10  17DFCD27  [00387EC8-003953B1]  config/arb/24_gmonopuls_ram.bin
003953B2  2.0  0000  0008  0000412A  0000255E  30-03-2018 22:13:10  D49145AB  [003953E5-00397942]  config/arb/256QAM.wav
00397943  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  000031EF  30-03-2018 22:13:10  494BD9BF  [0039797E-0039AB6C]  config/arb/25_tripuls_ram.bin
0039AB6D  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000852B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  DEF79A0A  [0039ABA8-003A30D2]  config/arb/26_cardiac_ram.bin
003A30D3  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  000030BA  30-03-2018 22:13:10  4171747A  [003A310C-003A61C5]  config/arb/27_quake_ram.bin
003A61C6  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F2B0  30-03-2018 22:13:10  898E2F75  [003A61FF-003B54AE]  config/arb/28_chirp_ram.bin
003B54AF  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000EC2B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  71D0B844  [003B54EA-003C4114]  config/arb/29_twotone_ram.bin
003C4115  2.0  0000  0008  00004126  0000177D  30-03-2018 22:13:10  4A2D18DD  [003C4146-003C58C2]  config/arb/2ASK.wav 
003C58C3  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000074  30-03-2018 22:13:10  0B50B3F0  [003C58FD-003C5970]  config/arb/2_stairup_ram.bin
003C5971  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F7C2  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C8FABEA4  [003C59A8-003D5169]  config/arb/30_snr_ram.bin
003D516A  2.0  0000  0008  00004128  0000253F  30-03-2018 22:13:10  B2E71A1D  [003D519C-003D76DA]  config/arb/32QAM.wav
003D76DB  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F221  30-03-2018 22:13:10  9A32322A  [003D7716-003E6936]  config/arb/34_hamming_ram.bin
003E6937  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F3F6  30-03-2018 22:13:10  23CFB6C9  [003E6972-003F5D67]  config/arb/35_hanning_ram.bin
003F5D68  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000E180  30-03-2018 22:13:10  EE9299B0  [003F5DA2-00403F21]  config/arb/36_kaiser_ram.bin
00403F22  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000EB4B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  23EDEF95  [00403F5E-00412AA8]  config/arb/37_blackman_ram.bin
00412AA9  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000FAC9  30-03-2018 22:13:10  037C41A0  [00412AE5-004225AD]  config/arb/38_gausswin_ram.bin
004225AE  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000FB3B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  DB0E6DD1  [004225E8-00432122]  config/arb/39_triang_ram.bin
00432123  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000074  30-03-2018 22:13:10  026C4355  [0043215D-004321D0]  config/arb/3_stairdn_ram.bin
004321D1  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000D05C  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C360DC35  [00432213-0043F26E]  config/arb/40_blackmanharris_ram.bin
0043F26F  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000FF0A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  832E2F41  [0043F2AE-0044F1B7]  config/arb/41_barthannwin_ram.bin
0044F1B8  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00003677  30-03-2018 22:13:10  358D257B  [0044F1EF-00452865]  config/arb/42_tan_ram.bin
00452866  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00003676  30-03-2018 22:13:10  3CB1D5DE  [0045289D-00455F12]  config/arb/43_cot_ram.bin
00455F13  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00004572  30-03-2018 22:13:10  E97AF125  [00455F4A-0045A4BB]  config/arb/44_sec_ram.bin
0045A4BC  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00004574  30-03-2018 22:13:10  E0460180  [0045A4F3-0045EA66]  config/arb/45_csc_ram.bin
0045EA67  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F8B7  30-03-2018 22:13:10  80530FD7  [0045EA9F-0046E355]  config/arb/46_asin_ram.bin
0046E356  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F8B6  30-03-2018 22:13:10  8287D646  [0046E38E-0047DC43]  config/arb/47_acos_ram.bin
0047DC44  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00006F29  30-03-2018 22:13:10  0FEF4D94  [0047DC7C-00484BA4]  config/arb/48_atan_ram.bin
00484BA5  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00006F25  30-03-2018 22:13:10  109CCD6A  [00484BDD-0048BB01]  config/arb/49_acot_ram.bin
0048BB02  2.0  0000  0008  00004126  00001874  30-03-2018 22:13:10  396369EE  [0048BB33-0048D3A6]  config/arb/4ASK.wav 
0048D3A7  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000090  30-03-2018 22:13:10  46B62C90  [0048D3E1-0048D470]  config/arb/4_stairud_ram.bin
0048D471  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000057  30-03-2018 22:13:10  42922C71  [0048D4AB-0048D501]  config/arb/50_square_ram.bin
0048D502  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C841  30-03-2018 22:13:10  0C7C166F  [0048D53D-00499D7D]  config/arb/51_sinetra_ram.bin
00499D7E  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00007648  30-03-2018 22:13:10  4A894F64  [00499DB9-004A1400]  config/arb/52_sinever_ram.bin
004A1401  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F38D  30-03-2018 22:13:10  7F7A0DF2  [004A143B-004B07C7]  config/arb/53_ampalt_ram.bin
004B07C8  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F3AA  30-03-2018 22:13:10  725F01C9  [004B0802-004BFBAB]  config/arb/54_attalt_ram.bin
004BFBAC  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000E01A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  EAA096B8  [004BFBE9-004CDC02]  config/arb/55_roundhalf_ram.bin
004CDC03  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BDC2  30-03-2018 22:13:10  49566C28  [004CDC3F-004D9A00]  config/arb/56_roundspm_ram.bin
004D9A01  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00007721  30-03-2018 22:13:10  7D5B366A  [004D9A3F-004E115F]  config/arb/57_blaseiwave_ram.bin
004E1160  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C77B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  ADD1B72B  [004E119D-004ED917]  config/arb/58_dampedosc_ram.bin
004ED918  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000D6BD  30-03-2018 22:13:10  69414977  [004ED954-004FB010]  config/arb/59_swingosc_ram.bin
004FB011  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000058  30-03-2018 22:13:10  239191BA  [004FB04A-004FB0A1]  config/arb/5_ppulse_ram.bin
004FB0A2  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000ADFA  30-03-2018 22:13:10  63C407EE  [004FB0DF-00505ED8]  config/arb/60_discharge_ram.bin
00505ED9  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000B1D3  30-03-2018 22:13:10  AEBD81F1  [00505F13-005110E5]  config/arb/61_pahcur_ram.bin
005110E6  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00005701  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C5E2FF2B  [00511120-00516820]  config/arb/62_combin_ram.bin
00516821  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  000094A5  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C9F70728  [00516858-0051FCFC]  config/arb/63_scr_ram.bin
0051FCFD  2.0  0000  0008  00004128  00002541  30-03-2018 22:13:10  2D4305F5  [0051FD2F-0052226F]  config/arb/64QAM.wav
00522270  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000A99E  30-03-2018 22:13:10  0CB42250  [005222AF-0052CC4C]  config/arb/64_butterworth_ram.bin
0052CC4D  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00009D46  30-03-2018 22:13:10  AA06DEA8  [0052CC8B-005369D0]  config/arb/65_chebyshev1_ram.bin
005369D1  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BF0B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  79B33003  [00536A0F-00542919]  config/arb/66_chebyshev2_ram.bin
0054291A  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000093  30-03-2018 22:13:10  50E14207  [00542950-005429E2]  config/arb/67_tv_ram.bin
005429E3  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000664A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  49FDC530  [00542A1C-00549065]  config/arb/68_voice_ram.bin
00549066  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000B6C1  30-03-2018 22:13:10  31463571  [0054909F-0055475F]  config/arb/69_surge_ram.bin
00554760  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000058  30-03-2018 22:13:10  2AAD611F  [00554799-005547F0]  config/arb/6_npulse_ram.bin
005547F1  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000093  30-03-2018 22:13:10  62E5F642  [0055482A-005548BC]  config/arb/70_radar_ram.bin
005548BD  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000D21E  30-03-2018 22:13:10  D7EF0CDE  [005548F7-00561B14]  config/arb/71_ripple_ram.bin
00561B15  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000A3E7  30-03-2018 22:13:10  38DA0A48  [00561B4E-0056BF34]  config/arb/72_gamma_ram.bin
0056BF35  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00008D8B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  D0BF1B92  [0056BF71-00574CFB]  config/arb/73_stepresp_ram.bin
00574CFC  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  000026D7  30-03-2018 22:13:10  B88C5B7C  [00574D37-0057740D]  config/arb/74_bandlimited.bin
0057740E  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000070  30-03-2018 22:13:10  246C8F8A  [00577448-005774B7]  config/arb/75_cpulse_ram.bin
005774B8  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00007D2C  30-03-2018 22:13:10  449FA1CE  [005774F3-0057F21E]  config/arb/76_cwpulse_ram.bin
0057F21F  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000E081  30-03-2018 22:13:10  3CCD9976  [0057F25B-0058D2DB]  config/arb/77_gatevibr_ram.bin
0058D2DC  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00007E9A  30-03-2018 22:13:10  2D8A7D5C  [0058D318-005951B1]  config/arb/78_lfmpulse_ram.bin
005951B2  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BCE0  30-03-2018 22:13:10  F9A2DBE6  [005951ED-005A0ECC]  config/arb/79_mcnoise_ram.bin
005A0ECD  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00007312  30-03-2018 22:13:10  364E6EF9  [005A0F08-005A8219]  config/arb/7_trapezia_ram.bin
005A821A  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00007C6B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  084222E7  [005A8250-005AFEBA]  config/arb/80_am_ram.bin
005AFEBB  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00003DE8  30-03-2018 22:13:10  D8629FE9  [005AFEF1-005B3CD8]  config/arb/81_fm_ram.bin
005B3CD9  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  000000AE  30-03-2018 22:13:10  00754F3C  [005B3D10-005B3DBD]  config/arb/82_pfm_ram.bin
005B3DBE  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00007FB0  30-03-2018 22:13:10  A25DDBBB  [005B3DF4-005BBDA3]  config/arb/83_pm_ram.bin
005BBDA4  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  00000122  30-03-2018 22:13:10  3CDD9B7F  [005BBDDB-005BBEFC]  config/arb/84_pwm_ram.bin
005BBEFD  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000B28C  30-03-2018 22:13:10  2ABB7F6F  [005BBF34-005C71BF]  config/arb/85_eog_ram.bin
005C71C0  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C2AF  30-03-2018 22:13:10  E4CF97F1  [005C71F7-005D34A5]  config/arb/86_eeg_ram.bin
005D34A6  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000CB30  30-03-2018 22:13:10  241BD6CC  [005D34DD-005E000C]  config/arb/87_emg_ram.bin
005E000D  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C37B  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C8880F5E  [005E004D-005EC3C7]  config/arb/88_pulseilogram_ram.bin
005EC3C8  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C5BF  30-03-2018 22:13:10  05B37362  [005EC404-005F89C2]  config/arb/89_resspeed_ram.bin
005F89C3  2.0  0000  0008  00004126  000018A6  30-03-2018 22:13:10  4204968E  [005F89F4-005FA299]  config/arb/8ASK.wav 
005FA29A  2.0  0000  0008  00004126  00002531  30-03-2018 22:13:10  DF529822  [005FA2CB-005FC7FB]  config/arb/8PSK.wav 
005FC7FC  2.0  0000  0008  00004126  000024B8  30-03-2018 22:13:10  CA97DAFF  [005FC82D-005FECE4]  config/arb/8QAM.wav 
005FECE5  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F0AA  30-03-2018 22:13:10  F56DB708  [005FED1E-0060DDC7]  config/arb/8_upramp_ram.bin
0060DDC8  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BF7C  30-03-2018 22:13:10  5F9ADD96  [0060DE00-00619D7B]  config/arb/90_ecg1_ram.bin
00619D7C  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BD46  30-03-2018 22:13:10  B1680D2D  [00619DB4-00625AF9]  config/arb/91_ecg2_ram.bin
00625AFA  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000D48C  30-03-2018 22:13:10  D7FD7B39  [00625B32-00632FBD]  config/arb/92_ecg3_ram.bin
00632FBE  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C3F9  30-03-2018 22:13:10  CCFEBC7C  [00632FF6-0063F3EE]  config/arb/93_ecg4_ram.bin
0063F3EF  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C48C  30-03-2018 22:13:10  EDE23CC7  [0063F427-0064B8B2]  config/arb/94_ecg5_ram.bin
0064B8B3  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C0B2  30-03-2018 22:13:10  A6892CAD  [0064B8EB-0065799C]  config/arb/95_ecg6_ram.bin
0065799D  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000D927  30-03-2018 22:13:10  94629745  [006579D5-006652FB]  config/arb/96_ecg7_ram.bin
006652FC  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000BEFF  30-03-2018 22:13:10  CA5BA402  [00665334-00671232]  config/arb/97_ecg8_ram.bin
00671233  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000C221  30-03-2018 22:13:10  9A9CE68A  [0067126B-0067D48B]  config/arb/98_ecg9_ram.bin
0067D48C  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000B45D  30-03-2018 22:13:10  008128CC  [0067D4C5-00688921]  config/arb/99_ecg10_ram.bin
00688922  2.0  0000  0008  00010000  0000F0A9  30-03-2018 22:13:10  F7B96E99  [0068895B-00697A03]  config/arb/9_dnramp_ram.bin
00697A04  2.0  0000  0008  00004126  000018F9  30-03-2018 22:13:10  ABE74254  [00697A35-0069932D]  config/arb/BPSK.wav 
0069932E  2.0  0000  0008  00004127  00002537  30-03-2018 22:13:10  C39A9324  [00699360-0069B896]  config/arb/D8PSK.wav
0069B897  2.0  0000  0008  00004128  000018E6  30-03-2018 22:13:10  798C5104  [0069B8C9-0069D1AE]  config/arb/DBPSK.wav
0069D1AF  2.0  0000  0008  000002EE  00000022  30-03-2018 22:13:10  5A7659F3  [0069D1EC-0069D20D]  config/arb/demo_stairdn_ram.bin
0069D20E  2.0  0000  0008  00004128  000024FF  30-03-2018 22:13:10  725F01B8  [0069D240-0069F73E]  config/arb/DQPSK.wav
0069F73F  2.0  0000  0008  00004800  000008B4  30-03-2018 22:13:10  35CC51E2  [0069F775-006A0028]  config/arb/lina2_512.bin
006A0029  2.0  0000  0008  00012000  00001D55  30-03-2018 22:13:10  7F7243D2  [006A005F-006A1DB3]  config/arb/lina_2048.bin
006A1DB4  2.0  0000  0008  00004126  000024F7  30-03-2018 22:13:10  17FB12F4  [006A1DE5-006A42DB]  config/arb/QPSK.wav 
006A42DC  2.0  0000  0008  00005453  00004395  30-03-2018 22:13:10  39E03C4E  [006A4323-006A86B7]  config/arb/SDG2000X_Arb_Summary_V1.2.xlsx
006A86B8  2.0  0000  0008  00012000  0000A7F4  30-03-2018 22:13:10  FA31F4C2  [006A86EA-006B2EDD]  config/arb/sin17.bin
006B2EDE  2.0  0000  0008  00004800  000033C2  30-03-2018 22:13:10  17FB0A6B  [006B2F14-006B62D5]  config/arb/sin17_512.bin
006B62D6  2.0  0000  0008  00012000  0000B4DE  30-03-2018 22:13:10  F9E0DBA7  [006B6308-006C17E5]  config/arb/sin31.bin
006C17E6  2.0  0000  0008  00004800  000034D6  30-03-2018 22:13:10  BC4B9BED  [006C181C-006C4CF1]  config/arb/sin31_512.bin
006C4CF2  2.0  0000  0008  00004800  0000360D  30-03-2018 22:13:10  55FA7453  [006C4D27-006C8333]  config/arb/sinc_512.bin
006C8334  2.0  0000  0008  00012000  0000BCD5  30-03-2018 22:13:10  A32E0CB8  [006C8369-006D403D]  config/arb/sin_2048.bin
006D403E  2.0  0000  0008  0000110C  000010A8  30-03-2018 22:13:10  571A43E0  [006D406F-006D5116]  config/arb/test.wav 
006D5117  1.0  0000  0000  00000000  00000000  26-06-2018 17:23:16  00000000  [006D5141-006D5140]  config/fpga/
006D5141  2.0  0000  0008  002DF366  000E498A  03-05-2018 18:41:22  B01C15D8  [006D5171-007B9AFA]  config/fpga/iq.bit
007B9AFB  2.0  0000  0008  003DBB6C  0005BC7D  26-06-2018 16:18:05  987195DC  [007B9B39-008157B5]  config/fpga/top_unicorn_zynq.bit
008157B6  2.0  0000  0008  002DF367  00139056  03-05-2018 18:41:22  66FDC721  [008157F3-0094E848]  config/fpga/unicorn_k7_fpga.bit
0094E849  2.0  0000  0008  000000FF  00000086  03-05-2018 18:41:22  5CD202F6  [0094E889-0094E90E]  config/NSP_config_upgrade_info.xml
0094E90F  2.0  0000  0008  00000DF4  00000408  03-05-2018 18:41:22  F08CA04A  [0094E946-0094ED4D]  config/NSP_limit_data.xml
0094ED4E  2.0  0000  0008  000000ED  0000008A  03-05-2018 18:41:22  EC0A19A9  [0094ED86-0094EE0F]  config/NSP_system_info.xml
0094EE10  2.0  0000  0008  0000022F  00000103  03-05-2018 18:41:22  A67A123B  [0094EE4F-0094EF51]  config/NSP_trends_config_info.xml
0094EF52  1.0  0000  0000  00000000  00000000  26-06-2018 17:19:03  00000000  [0094EF7F-0094EF7E]  config/ui_data/
0094EF7F  2.0  0000  0008  00000034  00000036  03-05-2018 18:41:22  C00B0D37  [0094EFC1-0094EFF6]  config/ui_data/english_help_info.xml
0094EFF7  2.0  0000  0008  0000DC0A  00001226  03-05-2018 18:41:22  507A3AFF  [0094F039-0095025E]  config/ui_data/english_menu_info.xml
0095025F  2.0  0000  0008  0000554C  00001326  03-05-2018 18:41:22  0ED5F8BE  [009502A1-009515C6]  config/ui_data/english_text_info.xml
009515C7  2.0  0000  0008  00000034  00000036  03-05-2018 18:41:22  C00B0D37  [00951606-0095163B]  config/ui_data/simp_help_info.xml
0095163C  2.0  0000  0008  0000DEE3  000013D2  03-05-2018 18:41:22  560B79A4  [0095167B-00952A4C]  config/ui_data/simp_menu_info.xml
00952A4D  2.0  0000  0008  00005240  000014C6  03-05-2018 18:41:22  3CB8306C  [00952A8C-00953F51]  config/ui_data/simp_text_info.xml
00953F52  2.0  0000  0008  00000043  0000003E  03-05-2018 18:41:22  9FD467D9  [00953F82-00953FBF]  config/version.txt
00953FC0  1.0  0000  0000  00000000  00000000  26-06-2018 17:19:04  00000000  [00953FE6-00953FE5]  drivers/
00953FE6  2.0  0000  0008  00002C5E  00000FB4  03-05-2018 18:41:22  9E392D9E  [00954013-00954FC6]  drivers/gpib.ko
00954FC7  2.0  0000  0008  000069A5  00002875  03-05-2018 18:41:22  75D3D5E3  [00954FF8-0095786C]  drivers/g_usbtmc.ko 
0095786D  2.0  0000  0008  0000ECB5  00005D32  03-05-2018 18:41:22  50E7B35A  [009578A2-0095D5D3]  drivers/libcomposite.ko
0095D5D4  2.0  0000  0008  00002965  00000E97  03-05-2018 18:41:22  50725F38  [0095D606-0095E49C]  drivers/siglentkb.ko
0095E49D  2.0  0000  0008  00002087  00000A7D  03-05-2018 18:41:22  6C85FEBF  [0095E4DA-0095EF56]  drivers/siglent_overload_irq.ko
0095EF57  2.0  0000  0008  00001FF5  00000A65  03-05-2018 18:41:22  D022F4A3  [0095EF91-0095F9F5]  drivers/siglent_touch_irq.ko
0095F9F6  2.0  0000  0008  000020E5  00000ACC  03-05-2018 18:41:22  9A061A8A  [0095FA32-009604FD]  drivers/siglent_usbflag_irq.ko
009604FE  2.0  0000  0008  00002396  00000D39  03-05-2018 18:41:22  EB447535  [00960533-0096126B]  drivers/siglent_vdma.ko
0096126C  2.0  0000  0008  00003729  00001639  03-05-2018 18:41:22  77B79D3A  [009612A3-009628DB]  drivers/xilinx_axicdma.ko
009628DC  2.0  0000  0008  00003B9B  00001758  03-05-2018 18:41:22  651931A8  [00962912-00964069]  drivers/xilinx_axidma.ko
0096406A  2.0  0000  0008  0000412D  0000199B  03-05-2018 18:41:22  45D124EA  [0096409E-00965A38]  drivers/xilinx_vdma.ko
00965A39  1.0  0000  0000  00000000  00000000  26-06-2018 17:19:04  00000000  [00965A61-00965A60]  firmdata0/
00965A61  2.0  0000  0008  000000ED  0000008A  03-05-2018 18:41:22  EC0A19A9  [00965A9C-00965B25]  firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
00965B26  2.0  0000  0008  0000025A  0000010C  03-05-2018 18:41:22  71729FAF  [00965B68-00965C73]  firmdata0/NSP_trends_config_info.xml
00965C74  2.0  0000  0008  00000043  0000003E  03-05-2018 18:41:22  9FD467D9  [00965CA7-00965CE4]  firmdata0/version.txt
00965CE5  2.0  0000  0008  0093BFF0  002AE09B  27-06-2018 01:18:08  DAF23EC5  [00965D0A-00C13DA4]  awg.app
00C13DA5  2.0  0000  0008  00467A1C  00094A88  26-06-2018 10:16:11  F183FD0C  [00C13DCB-00CA8852]  BOOT.bin
00CA8853  2.0  0000  0008  00003D6C  00000FCD  03-05-2018 18:41:22  BA7B5E61  [00CA887F-00CA984B]  devicetree.dtb
00CA984C  2.0  0000  0008  009FB000  009F5967  03-05-2018 18:41:22  F88E82FB  [00CA9877-0169F1DD]  rootfs.cramfs
0169F1DE  2.0  0000  0008  002F9EF8  002F48B5  03-05-2018 18:41:22  2D57AE62  [0169F202-01993AB6]  uImage
01993AB7  2.0  0000  0008  00000A28  000002C9  03-05-2018 18:41:22  A2F49362  [01993ADE-01993DA6]  update.sh
Disk Entries: 281   Total Entries: 281   Directory Size: 30936 bytes  [01993DA7-0199B67E]
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  File Processed OK
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 05:23:41 pm by tv84 »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2018, 07:54:35 pm »
New firmware for SDG6000X series.

Version 6.01.01.29R10
26.2 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/6886/

Changelog
2. Optimized jitter performance of Square and Pulse


Do you know what "optimized jitter performance" means in terms of specification?

Thanks,
John
Sorry, no particular knowledge on why Siglent has addressed this.
From the datasheet Square wave spec:
Jitter (rms) cycle to cycle 100 ps.

That seems quite a bit to me for a cycle to cycle spec so I guess they've made it much better.
IIRC Shahriar (TSP) picked up on jitter could be better. Have you watched his video ? I linked it in the OP.
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Offline JohnG

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2018, 12:20:33 am »
Thanks, I saw the original 100 ps RMS spec, and it's about 2x too much for what I wish to do. It is a bigger problem if it is non-random, which I suspect is the case based on my experience with the SDG2042x (which is a fantastic siggen for the price).

Thanks,
John
"Reality is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick (RIP).
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2018, 12:56:19 am »
Thanks, I saw the original 100 ps RMS spec, and it's about 2x too much for what I wish to do. It is a bigger problem if it is non-random, which I suspect is the case based on my experience with the SDG2042x (which is a fantastic siggen for the price).

Thanks,
John
For all we know it will be much better that the 100ps max spec'ed in the datasheet but it really needs someone to run some checks to see what typical jitter is now.
I should really get around to getting the 500 MHz demo model offered or do I wait and see if they'll bring out something even higher BW.  :-//
Maybe I'll shoot an email to tech support for typical jitter values as they are now.
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Offline gperoni

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #69 on: July 29, 2018, 06:01:53 pm »
tv84, any plans on releasing the SDG6000X hack? I would like to purchase one :)
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2018, 08:42:55 pm »
tv84, any plans on releasing the SDG6000X hack? I would like to purchase one :)

Now that you have a FW update with root access is just a question of applying some of the knowledge of the SSA thread. One of the ways is identical.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #71 on: July 29, 2018, 08:58:57 pm »
tv84, any plans on releasing the SDG6000X hack? I would like to purchase one :)

Now that you have a FW update with root access is just a question of applying some of the knowledge of the SSA thread. One of the ways is identical.
Please just post a step-by-step plan. Being cryptic doesn't help anyone.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline gperoni

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #72 on: July 29, 2018, 09:25:23 pm »
I think that actually helps a lot... thank you tv84! :)
 

Offline bson

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #73 on: July 30, 2018, 09:06:44 am »
Is it the same hardware in the 200 and 500MHz units?  If so, then this looks quite attractive...
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #74 on: July 30, 2018, 09:08:36 am »
See reply #59.  :)
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Offline gperoni

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2018, 09:29:55 am »
Ok so, first off, a HUGE thank you to janekivi, as only thanks to his file I got root access to the device.

@tv84: I tried reading the SSA thread and pretty much all the methods, the only one that seems to work for me (upgrading from 200 to 500 MHz) is removing (moving to a different name) the /usr/bin/siglent/NSP_system_info.xml file. Touching the NSP_trends_config_info file results in me losing the PRBS/IQ entry in the Waveform menu. I tried playing around with the ./config directory too, as some files there are the same or similar, but I couldn't get the IQ option to work (the 500 MHz hack works fine though!).

Can you write a line on what you did?

Thank you :)
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #76 on: August 15, 2018, 02:41:51 pm »
Can you write a line on what you did?

There are several alternatives... The most accessible for everyone: search in the memdump.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #77 on: August 16, 2018, 07:52:30 pm »
well, screen is about twice as big..
in the lecroy we demoed the touchscreen was so bad that you had to press too hard to use it and when you didn't move your finger the cursor would move frenetically. with a stylus, not so bad but at that point i'd rather use a mouse thank you very much :(
@ JPortici
I've not long had the new SVA1015X SA/VNA unit, it has a 10" touch screen as well as the normal UI so to address any reservations you might have on the latest Siglent touch screens I can assure you this new SVA screen is a joy to drive. There's also some shortcut menu icons and they're very nice to use.
This SVA is the first big touch display we've seen from Siglent other than the WS3000 that LeCroy market and Siglent engineers look to have done a nice job implementing it.
SVA also offers mouse and keyboard control......I've only had a little play with it and only with a wireless KB/mouse combo which of course is not ideal for SA usage.
Hope that addresses any nagging doubts you had.  :)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 01:08:50 am by tautech »
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2018, 06:14:38 pm »
Today I received an SDG6022X and I've got to admit I'm already disappointed after the first ten minutes of testing. I believed (I know, that's generally a bad thing to do when purchasing Chinese test gear...) that I could use it to replace my Rigol DG4102 but as it seems, it's got EXACTLY the same shortcomings as the latter! You may find my rants about the Rigol generator here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/annoying-bug-in-rigol-dg4000-series-function-generator/

I found the SDG6000x to generate runt pulses if "Waveform: Pulse" is selected and the pulse width is adjusted with the encoder. That is a job that's not too special to tolerate this behavior, shown in the attached screenshots.

The user interface is partially okay and partially still a nightmare, especially considering the availability of the touchscreen. Selecting built-in arbitrary waveforms is virtually the same catastrophe as with the Rigol. Siglent, don't copy other's crappy solutions, rather have your engineers use their own brains! A list of some 200 ARB waveforms without any way to quickly scroll through them with at least a small indication of their shape is mostly useless. At least in my opinion.

The incremental encoder on this machine also skips a step now and then although it's by far not as bad as on the DG4000. Anyway, to reliably do incremental adjustments of pulse widths or frequencies or whatyoulike without looking at the screen, just by sensing the detents of the encoder, it simply isn't good enough.

I didn't do much more testing so far, rise time and general signal quality looks decent at the first glance. But considering the price of the instrument, I've got to admit that I expected more than that, especially usability-wise. Or am I asking too much?

Probably I'll have a second, more thorough look at the instrument during the next days but if my first impressions prevail, this thing will get returned...
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 08:40:25 am by TurboTom »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2018, 07:24:30 pm »
Tom, can I ask if this unit has the latest firmware installed, Version: 6.01.01.29R10 ?
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2018, 08:44:07 pm »
Yes it came from the distributor with the mentioned firmware installed.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #81 on: September 13, 2018, 08:53:38 pm »
Yes it came from the distributor with the mentioned firmware installed.
Thanks for confirmation. I'll pass your findings to the factory.
Probably I'll have a second, more thorough look at the instrument during the next days but if my first impressions prevail, this thing will get returned...
Yes do that and study what it can do and a liberated one can.  ;)
If you want to venture that path these units are good value.
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2018, 09:28:17 am »
Did some more testing already and my impression of the instrument doesn't get better. The signal appears to get interrupted/distorted upon any timing-related change of the settings via the incremental encoder, regardless of the waveform. I attached three screenshots, the fist changing the frequency of a 5kHz sine by one least significant digit, the second the same thing for a 50% duty cycle square (now also a runt pulse is generated), and finally I change the duty cycle by 1% of the same square wave, causing the signal to pause for more than 2ms. If you use the generator to test a switch mode power stage, it easily goes "poof"  :-BROKE if this happens with the drive signal.

Edit: Just added a screenshot of what a frequency change looks like on the Rigol DG4000 (same for ramp; sqare & pulse similar or even a little worse than on the SDG6000X).

Edit 2: I figured out that if the -> Utility -> Phase Mode setting is changed from the default "Phase Locked" to "Independent", the Sine (and probably also Ramp) signal permit change of frequencies without the mentioned discontinuities. So in this configuration, the SDG6000X performs just as the Rigol DG4000. Square and pulse still broken, unfortunately.

The user interface will also easily ruin your day since it doesn't store the digit of the parameter that was adjusted, i.e. if you do fine adjustments of the frequency (say you're changing the 100Hz digit of a 100kHz output signal) via the encoder and then do an amplitude correction, to return to the frequency adjustment afterwards, you will be adjusting the 100kHz digit. This kind of behavior is very unproductive since especially in case of a signal generator, you're usually not looking at the generator's screen but at the screen of an oscilloscope or other test gear to observe the results of changes of the input parameters to your DUT. It must be possible to reliably change parameters incrementally without having to look at the generator all the time only to check that it's performing correctly.

The SDG6000X may have many bells and whistles but still it has to operate as a plain and simple "old" versatile fequency generator in my opinion. If it doesn't work okay in all these modes, I consider it not up to the task and not worth the money. Even the Rigol DG4000 performs better in many of these scenarios, and the best generator I own concerning this, is my cheapest one (though it's -- been -- plagued with other problems), the Hantek HDG2002B.

So far I think Siglent should focus on the details that make an instrument comfortable and enjoyable to use in real lab scenarios, otherwise (and here I remember one statement from some other thread about LCR meters, refering to some TFT-equipped poo ...) the instrument is not much more than some touchscreen-featured poo.

Even though all these issues can probably be adressed by firmware / FPGA code updates, I doubt that Siglent will take care of them all. I haven't got any experience with the SDG2000X generator but I assume that the SDG6000X's code bases heavily on the aforementioned one so I'm almost certain that these shortcomings can be found there as well (maybe someone who owns an SDG2000X could test it?). If this is the case and Siglent didn't adress these problems yet, I doubt they will do so on the SDG6000X either. I will test the generator probably for a week or two and then return it. It's not worth the money if you're not buying it specifically for its I/Q functionality (costs more money, I don't want to talk about the "liberation of options" here and now), the baseline model is just not adequate as an allround lab generator that's confortable to use. In it's current condition, I'ld rate it two stars out of five for its signal quality and fast slopes. It's too expensive for its usability value.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 12:45:35 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2018, 12:41:08 pm »
I haven't got any experience with the SDG2000X generator but I assume that the SDG6000X's code bases heavily on the aforementioned one so I'm almost certain that these shortcomings can be found there as well (maybe someone who owns an SDG2000X could test it?).

No switching issues with SDG2000X. Still very pleased with my 4 channel 120MHz phase locked combo for <1000€ ;)

« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 12:43:16 pm by MrW0lf »
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2018, 12:53:52 pm »
Thanks for testing this @MrWolf -

so there may be hope that Siglent will sort this problem on the SDG6000X eventually...
If this will happen in acceptable time for me to risk to keep the instrument is another question, though  :-\
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2018, 01:28:48 pm »
Edit 2: I figured out that if the -> Utility -> Phase Mode setting is changed from the default "Phase Locked" to "Independent", the Sine (and probably also Ramp) signal permit change of frequencies without the mentioned discontinuities. So in this configuration, the SDG6000X performs just as the Rigol DG4000. Square and pulse still broken, unfortunately.

Oh no! :scared:
Phase Locked it was, but switched CH Copy Coupling=OFF (before both channels were locked in all but phase deviation). 5kHz square on one channel, set second channel to 20MHz. Now look :'(
Glitches on both channels but <50us, not ~2ms like in your case.



However when I set to Independent, duty transition is again seamless. Now if think about it may be indeed somewhat problematic to do seamless switch when both channels phase locked, and run different frequencies. But it might work a little better... Think would be helpful if mr tautech pokes HQ a bit on this...
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 01:35:15 pm by MrW0lf »
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2018, 02:33:04 pm »
In my tests, I was't looking at different channels. It's just a single one that pauses for a certain duration (probably while the FPGA is reconfigured) and then resumes to output the signal with the new parameters. No phase lock, no coupling, just a single channel. And in my opinion it must be possible to get a seamless signal changes in square and pulse mode (if minimum slope times are configured so no slope scaling is required).

I did some more tests regarding time base accuracy and this looks quite good. I find on "my" specimen the time base to be approx. 0.6ppm slow, i.e. if I enter a frequency of 10.0000059MHz to be generated, I get a slow drift on the scope agains my 10MHz Rb source as shown on the screenshot. It's funny that I just must have recorded an adjustment step of the TCXO that's used as the reference inside the SDG6000X.

DC amplitude accuracy looks good, deviating next to nothing below 3V and a maximum of 0.5% at 10V. AC level accuracy still needs to be tested.

Edit: I just checked level accuracy of the Sine wave from 100kHz to 200MHz (instrument isn't "liberated") with my venerable HP 436A + 8482A and found it (converted to Veff) to be better than -0 / +0.8% absolute on both channels over the full range (-0 / +0.07dB). So it's well within spec.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 03:08:29 pm by TurboTom »
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2018, 03:46:00 pm »
Can you please check how 5kHz 50=>51% duty transition looks on DG4000 with second channel phase locked and set to max square freq (or 20MHz like in my test)? This could prove a good "torture test" for gen. Solving this situation elegantly would require certain effort.
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2018, 08:45:12 pm »
Think would be helpful if mr tautech pokes HQ a bit on this...
Done yesterday but it's the weekend here and at HQ now.
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2018, 08:49:51 pm »
@MrWolf

Okay, here we are. Frequencies were 5kHz and 40MHz (CH1 / CH2), phase coupling between the two with CH1 as "master" as shown in the first screenshot. The DG4000 pauses a long time, more than 6ms and also produces some glitch in between as shown in the last screenshot. It performs clearly worse than the SDG6000X. But in my opinion the difference is marginal as long as there's a pause at all. This renders the generator useless for many critical applications.

One clear advantage of the DG4000 is its frequency counter which is way more advanced than those included with any other AWG, featuring full statistics and graphics display. But that's not really what I get an AWG for even though it may be a nice "goodie" if everything else was working flawlessly...
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #90 on: September 15, 2018, 10:13:00 pm »
I guess I have missed the opportunity to download the file "SDG6000X_eevblog_29R10.zip" linked to by @janekivi about a month ago. Now the wikisend link has expired and I would like to gain root access to my SDG6000X. Any chance someone could upload it again or provide it attached to a PN? You would do me a great favor and I'll be eternally thankful  ;).

Cheers,
Thomas
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 07:29:54 am by TurboTom »
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #91 on: September 16, 2018, 11:39:10 am »
I guess I have missed the opportunity to download the file "SDG6000X_eevblog_29R10.zip" linked to by @janekivi about a month ago. Now the wikisend link has expired and I would like to gain root access to my SDG6000X. Any chance someone could upload it again or provide it attached to a PN? You would do me a great favor and I'll be eternally thankful  ;).

Does that mean you are convinced by the SDG6000X?   ::) 
 
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Offline janekivi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #92 on: September 16, 2018, 11:49:09 am »
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #93 on: September 16, 2018, 07:14:01 pm »
I did a quick test on a DG1032Z.

1. Sinewave is glitch free
2. Square and pulse wave is glitch free up until 1MHz, for both frequency and duty cycle. Over 1MHz they start glitching.
3. Ramp is glitching all the time
4. AWG seems to be glitch free

Glitches are represented with abrupt cutoff of generated waveform at whatever random moment, creating really short runt pulse, followed by 3-4 ms zero level without signal generated..

Didn't try chanel phase coupling..
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #94 on: September 16, 2018, 08:11:48 pm »
I guess I have missed the opportunity to download the file "SDG6000X_eevblog_29R10.zip" linked to by @janekivi about a month ago. Now the wikisend link has expired and I would like to gain root access to my SDG6000X. Any chance someone could upload it again or provide it attached to a PN? You would do me a great favor and I'll be eternally thankful  ;).

Does that mean you are convinced by the SDG6000X?   ::)

No, actually I'm looking for a way to convince myself to keep it, bad case of TEA, you know what I mean  ;)

Thanks a lot to all those who helped me with getting root access to the device by PM or on the forum.

As it seems, Siglent intended to also provide bandwidth upgrades but they may have shelved that idea. So far, I'm still ambiguous regarding the performance of the SDG6000X. Signal quality, accuracy and options are really good but the shortcomings that I mentioned are showstoppers for me and the applications that I'ld like to use the instrument for. Fortunately, I've still got a few weeks time to make a decision.

Cheers,
Thomas
 

Offline willie.from.texas

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2018, 11:46:17 pm »
I upgraded both my SDG6022X function generator and my SDS1104X-E four channel oscilloscope. Here is an indication of my performance improvement from both updates.  The chart below was generated using a 1.5Vpp sine wave driving a 50 ohm load through a 12" coax as measured by the oscilloscope...
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 11:49:08 pm by willie.from.texas »
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #96 on: September 18, 2018, 06:50:19 am »
I've got some new findings with the SDG6022X that appear to indicate that there's actually a hardware difference between this and the higher rated models of the SDG6000X series that preclude hacks to higher frequencies. As yet, I'm not 100% sure since the behaviour may also point into the direction of a hardware problem of the particular unit that I got. Anyway, currently my recommendation to all those who are playing with the thought to purchase such an instrument with the perspective of a bandwidth upgrade, don't take it for granted that it will work.

I've got to review some screenshots and edit some recordings before I can post a more detailed report of my findings. This may happen later today or tomorrow...
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #97 on: September 18, 2018, 02:12:21 pm »
Dears,

FYI

just to show you my experience with the SDG6022X device.
Was playing with FSK sigs.
The attached pics, show a 2MHz/10MHz carrier switched with
1MHz frequency.
To get a proper 0V change in frequency some adjustments
with phase angle parameter were necessary due to coax
delay to the dso.
Extern triggering with switching frequency was done on a
SDS2000X.

So for my purpose the dev is quite suitable.

Markus
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #98 on: September 18, 2018, 09:13:08 pm »
As I mentioned before, I did some more experiments with the SDG6022X and made some peculiar findings. As it seems, the instrument (at least the one that I have got) is either speed graded or defective. In its original configuration, I initially didn't find any unforseen behavior except for the short pauses when changing settings that I mentioned several posts above.

Now that I was able to "liberate" the machine with the help of @janekivi's firmware file  :-+, I did some more testing and initially everything appeared to work normally. After some testing, I noticed more and more strange reaction to parameter changes which finally led to the following two video clips (I apologize for the unsteady camera, I recorded the clip with my cell phone and had to operate the AWG / 'scope with the left hand... but I guess it hilights my points):

http://www.turbinemuseum.de/files/SDG6000X/SDG6000X_lib1.mp4

http://www.turbinemuseum.de/files/SDG6000X/SDG6000X_lib2.mp4

Please keep in mind that these two clips had been taken with the "liberated" machine, even though the software configuration should have matched a stock SDG6052X. I even rolled back the firmware (to the stock one without known root access) without any observable change. I also got the impression that the effect worsened over time. It is definitely not related to operating temperatures of the instrument since I just powered it up before the first take after it had been disconnected from mains over the night.

After that I removed all my patches completely so the instrument is in its original configuration as I initially received it. The following tests didn't show any of the curiosities that I observed before, it reacts flawlessly to keyboard inputs (well, at least not worse than before... ::) ). What I noticed when I observed steep square wave or pulse edges is some minor "undulation" or whatever one may call it, shown in the following clip (sorry, german language since I thought I may use it for my future correspondence with the distributor):

http://www.turbinemuseum.de/files/SDG6000X/SDG6000X_org1.mp4

I'ld be glad if those of you who own or have access to one of these AWGs could try to replicate these tests and report their findings. Proper termination and wiring is required during all of these tests.

One thing that really surprises me is that Siglent must be calibrating all the units up to 500MHz since the amplitude flatness over the full range is superb. With an HP RF power meter, I find the 0dBm level to fall between 0.05 and 0.15 dBm from 100kHz to 500MHz, a reading taken every 10MHz. Interestingly, with an offset of 2V (the HP 8482A power sensor is A/C coupled at the input with a capacitor of approx. 125nF), the level flatness goes pretty much south (relatively speaking) with excursions of 0.9dBm around 330MHz.

This obvious full-range calibration makes me wonder if the particular unit that I got may actually be faulty. But I'll have some difficulty explaining why it's faulty while it performs okay  (-ish) in its specified frequency range. I guess I'm just gonna return it and don't start any arguments at all. Just don't like it...  ;) And maybe go for another one after (if?) Siglent addressed the pauses during parameter changes.

Cheers,
Thomas




 
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Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #99 on: September 18, 2018, 10:22:14 pm »

This obvious full-range calibration makes me wonder if the particular unit that I got may actually be faulty. But I'll have some difficulty explaining why it's faulty while it performs okay  (-ish) in its specified frequency range. I guess I'm just gonna return it and don't start any arguments at all. Just don't like it...  ;) And maybe go for another one after (if?) Siglent addressed the pauses during parameter changes.
Tom can I ask why you would attempt to evaluate a 200 MHz (stock) or 500 MHz (liberated) AWG with a 70 MHz DSO ?  :-//
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #100 on: September 18, 2018, 10:49:33 pm »
@tautech -- you've got a completely valid point here, please see the attached screenshot of the system info page of the "DS2072A-S". I got this scope for comparably little money from Rigol EU's clearance sales , not only did it contain the MSO hardware, but was also easily convinced to operate as the MSO2302A-S. Rise time is 1ns and -3dB bandwidth is in the ballpark of 370MHz. If it will make you feel more comfortable, I'll pull the Tek 2465 from the basement and replicate the tests with this one (provided it will still power up without errors... ;)).

Cheers,
Thomas
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #101 on: September 18, 2018, 11:16:27 pm »
@tautech -- you've got a completely valid point here, please see the attached screenshot of the system info page of the "DS2072A-S". I got this scope for comparably little money from Rigol EU's clearance sales , not only did it contain the MSO hardware, but was also easily convinced to operate as the MSO2302A-S. Rise time is 1ns and -3dB bandwidth is in the ballpark of 370MHz. If it will make you feel more comfortable, I'll pull the Tek 2465 from the basement and replicate the tests with this one (provided it will still power up without errors... ;)).

Cheers,
Thomas
Your reply was as expected  ;) so now I ask just as you have about the SDG6022X and higher BW liberated performance, how do you know performance of your liberated DSO matches a 'factory' MSO2303A ?
Truth is we can't say for absolute sure, just as we can't say 110% the SDG6022X liberated to SDG6052X operates perfectly as expected.
But then we know both your DSO and SDG6022X are BW limited so I don't understand why you would even question 'liberated' performance when using a liberated DSO.  :-//

As to unexplained SDG behavior your video (to me) didn't show the settings well enough for your scope and if Auto triggering was being used so this behavior could be explained if you were using Normal triggering.
Points you have identified in earlier posts have been bought to Siglent's attention so we do expect changes in forthcoming FW to address these. Further, all three X series AWG's have very similar UI's and so improvements to another series will permeate into the other AWG's.

Thanks for your explorations into the SDG6000X series.
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Offline dpenev

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #102 on: September 19, 2018, 07:00:26 am »
Hi Thomas,

I have tried to reproduce the issue from your first video (1MHz square wave 60% duty cycle) but it seems the square wave is OK at my side.
Probably you hit a problematic unit? Please let us know how the discussion with the distributor goes.
 
 
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #103 on: September 19, 2018, 08:53:28 pm »
Today I conducted several more tests with the SDG, among them also an attempt to "liberate" the instrument differently with apparently better results than before. Still I find some peculiar characteristics of which I'm not sure if they are correct. But let's start with a video clip of the instrument in its original configuration. My main objective was to decouple the output waveform from triggering of the oscilloscope. Fortunately, the SDG6000X features an AUXiliary connector at the rear that provides a sync signal if configured that way.  Unfortunately, the disappointment followed almost immediately after connecting it to the scope and powering it up -- there's considerable jitter between sync and the output phase and the sync is only available up to a frequency of 10MHz   ::). Anyway, here's the first clip, me demonstrating the sync / output jitter and some other strange stuff:

http://www.turbinemuseum.de/files/SDG6000X/SDG6000X_org2.mp4

After that I decided to have another go at "liberating" the machine, this time utilizing a different method. I won't go into detail here since I'm still not sure if it's a good idea to try this but whatsoever, apparently it worked a little better this way. At least the malfunctions of the waveform buttons have disappeared. Still, I find considerable "undulation", especially in pulse mode with 1ns rise/fall times and short pulses (< 10ns). At rise/fall times >= 2ns, the undulation almost disappears. I'ld be glad if someone could try to replicate this experiment with a fast scope. Regarding the scope that I use I've got to add (to eliminate any abiguities right from the start) that it's an "improved" Rigol MSO4014. Since Rigol themselves offer these bandwidth upgrades for this model, we can safely assume that the hardware is capable of the "liberated" bandwidth. It's upgraded to the full 500MHz, reporting the improvement as "official" . Here's the clip:

http://www.turbinemuseum.de/files/SDG6000X/SDG6000X_lib3.mp4

I'ld be really glad for some feedback regarding this test since it will help me to understand if my SDG6022X has got a problem or not.


After that and after having seen all the jitter and wiggles and whatnot, I thought to myself that it's time to pull the HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer from the basement and have a go at the SDG6022x...  >:D

To cut a long story short, in general the SDG is performing quite well IF an external reference gets used. The internal reference -- well, let's put it that way -- could be better...
The MDA basically is a very fast, very accurate frequency counter with integrated digital processing to provide a graphical representation of the measurements (especially histograms). It's primary display mode is frequency vs. time but it can sum up the results (just like a multi-channel analyzer) to provide a histogram that somewhat resembles a spectrum, yet it's not the level on the vertical axis but the quantity of the measurements that fall within the limits of that channel.

Most of the measurements I did are close to the limit of the MDA since the performance of the SDG6000X is quite good. But anyway, it shows some interesting details of the instrument.  Please bear with me for the many large photos I attached:


Here we start with a measurement of the reference generator itself. It consists of an Efratom LPRO-101 rubidium oscillator, a five channel isolation amplifier and a pulse shaper with three square wave outputs of 2.5, 3.3 and 5V. This reference is fed to the MDA as well as for some of the tests to the SDG6000X. This initial test is meant to show where the limits of the MDA are.


This photo shows the same setup as before but now the 5V square signal output is tested. It's amazing how much better 9.6mHz vs. 23mHz (this is millihertz!) the standard deviation of the frequency is. This basically is the result of the steeper edges of the square wave and hence the lower jitter of the input trigger / digitizing stages. We are right at the edge of the instrument's performance.


That's the first test of the SDG6000X, utilizing its internal reference oscillator. I decided to adjust amplitude of the sine wave to be 7dBm since the Rb reference outputs the same level. The histrogram looks pretty "how-you-doing" and the standard deviation is almost tenfold of what the RB source provides (this means jitter or phase noise).


For this test, I connected the external REF input of the SDG6000X to the RB reference. It's quite amazing how the figures change --  the standard deviation now is only slightly worse than the one of the reference itself. A more than eight-fold improvement...


For direct comparison with the reference, I also tested the SDG with a 10MHz square -- once again, the difference to the reference is neglible.

In the following tests, I step up with the frequency in 100MHz steps, initially to 300MHz:






Here the frequency limits of channel A of the MDA are already exceeded, yet it still appears to work okay. Moreover, at 300MHz the SDG cannot sustain a level of 7dBm anymore which may also contribute a little to higher trigger / digitizing jitter. Hence I did the same measurement on channel C of the MDA again:


This channel is equipped with a down converter. Since it requires its own local oscillator (PLL), it adds to the total jitter with some 100mHz in this configuration.




Finally at the limit of the SDG... It's amazing that at 500MHz -- provided the proper reference is used -- the generator produces less than 5Hz of total peak-to-peak jitter with a standard deviation of just a little more than half a hertz! Center frequency inaccuracy is just about 0.3Hz. For comparison, 500MHz with the internal reference:


Funny how much worse the SDG's internal reference is: an absolute error of around 240Hz, almost 20Hz Pk-Pk jitter and 4 Hz standard deviation.

Finally, I had to have a look at the internal reference of the SDG. Fortunately, it' got a reference output. Voila:


I guess that's not bad for a TCXO but the histogram is far from the ideal gauss profile. Probably it's okay for everyday's tasks but for some really accurate jobs, the SDG6000X's performance will improve a lot if a decent external reference is used.

Thanks for reading...that is, if you got that far...  ;)

Cheers,
Thomas


Edit: Corrected link to second video

« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 10:11:14 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline jhenderson0107

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #104 on: September 19, 2018, 10:43:45 pm »
Turbo -

Can you also measure the phase stability of the trigger output from the SDG on the MDO?  Could be problematic, since it's much lower frequency.  It may allow visualization of the trigger walk that you observed on the scope earlier or highlight jitter on this signal as you manipulate the SDG frequency. 

Jim
 

Offline dpenev

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #105 on: September 20, 2018, 10:42:52 am »
Hi Thomas,

I confirm the same behavior as your two videos.
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #106 on: September 20, 2018, 03:48:24 pm »
@dpenev - Thanks a lot for testing that. Your matching result probably confirms that my SDG6022X isn't defective and the observations at the edges of it's operational range are the result of the design and operation principle. It's good to know this since now I don't need to worry about a potentially defective unit and can decide to keep or return it just upon my findings. I guess now we know why Siglent has limited the over/undershoot specs in their datasheet to rise times of 2ns and above...  :o

By the way, the single AUX In/Out port that is shared between Sync CH1 / CH2 Trigger In CH1 / CH2, Trigger Out CH1 / CH2, Modulation In CH1 / CH2 and Data In in I/Q modulation mode. That's a whole bunch of stuff that's all mutually exclusive. I can very well imagine situations where I would need more than one of these functions. At least combined Sync/Trigger/Modulation ports but separate for CH1 and CH2 would be desirable. I'ld rather do without the frequency counter or have this function shared on one of the ports.

@ Jim - Please have a look at the following photos:


This is the freq-vs-time measurement of the Sync output. It appears there are more or less periodic changes between high and low jitter that alter rather abruptly. Since the jitter levels are rather low already, I'm not too sure if this is really something that's present at the SDG's sync output or if it may be some interference picked up from somewhere else. The maximum time base available on the MDA (1s/div) isn't long enough to pick up a complete period of this trace. Since I found that just using a different BNC cable may change the standard deviation of the jitter by 10mHz, I guess we're really searching here the needle in the haystack.


That's an interesting one: I reconfigured the MDA to operate as an ultrafast timer with high repetition rate. The time delay between input A and B of the MDA is measured and graphically displayed vs. time. Input A is connected to CH1 of the SDG6000X, providing a square wave of 1MHz, and input B is wired to the Sync Out on the rear of the SDG. Now the "walk-through" of the Sync signal vs. the output is clearly shown and also the approx. 3.5ns span of the "jitter" can be directly measured. It also gets obvious that the frequency of the walkthrough depends on the deviation of the output frequency to a multiple of 200kHz.


Here I tested the phase jitter between CH1 and CH2 of the SDG, outputting the same square wave. As the MDA shows, standard deviation of the phase delay between the two channels is no more than 50ps (since the input / trigger and other circuitry of the MDS also contributes a little to the noise), a pretty good figure.

If Siglent manages to remove the pauses of the output signal when changing parameters like frequency, aspect ratio or pulse width via the rotary encoder, I'ld say the generator is a keeper, despite of the peculiarities when looking very close... I guess there's no piece of test equipment without some quirks. In general, the performance of the instrument is quite good. Bu how can I know if they will address this problem (I guess @tautech does his best to convince them to have a look at the situation. But if the design pertmits the required modifications to sort that out is another question.  Since the SDG6000X is a rather new model, we can probably expect several future firmware updates and maybe some improvements /extensions to its functions as well.

@ Siglent...  ;)  one more thing I wish to have included, and that should be an easy one: Please add in the "Phase" menu besides the existing degrees also a time value. Sometimes it's more comfortable to dial in the phase delay in milli, micro or nanoseconds than having to convert that frequency-dependant to degrees. Maybe also a third option could be added to the channel coupling - phase menu: Degrees offset, degrees ratio and constant time (seconds).

Cheers,
Thomas
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 10:51:19 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #107 on: September 20, 2018, 06:07:47 pm »
Now the "walk-through" of the Sync signal vs. the output is clearly shown and also the approx. 3.5ns span of the "jitter" can be directly measured. It also gets obvious that the frequency of the walkthrough depends on the deviation of the output frequency to a multiple of 200kHz.

That number sounds familiar, I have two SDGs and needed 4 channel sync and some other stuff. There similar number popped up ~3.3ns:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1081666/#msg1081666
After some hassle it got more less sorted. There are several posts on that page on the subject maybe you get some ideas.
 
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Offline kerouanton

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #108 on: September 22, 2018, 06:33:34 pm »
I upgraded my SDG6022X from 6.01.01.28R1 to 6.01.01.29R10

- I noticed the hardware version was upgraded too (from 02-00-00-a9-30 to 02-00-00-68-38) ?! To what can it refer too? FPGA?
- I would need to revert back to the previous firmware, but I noticed it is not available on any siglent website (siglenteu.com, siglentamerica.com, and siglent.com/old.siglentamerica.com).

Any clue to get this previous firmware, please?

Thanks !
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 06:58:46 pm by kerouanton »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #109 on: September 22, 2018, 08:00:27 pm »
I upgraded my SDG6022X from 6.01.01.28R1 to 6.01.01.29R10

- I noticed the hardware version was upgraded too (from 02-00-00-a9-30 to 02-00-00-68-38) ?! To what can it refer too? FPGA?
- I would need to revert back to the previous firmware, but I noticed it is not available on any siglent website (siglenteu.com, siglentamerica.com, and siglent.com/old.siglentamerica.com).

Any clue to get this previous firmware, please?

Thanks !
AFAIK 6.01.01.28R1 was the first product release FW version and it hasn't been released onto the websites.
Siglent sometimes post this original version but in this case they haven't.
Unless they do, presume it's not available.
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #110 on: September 22, 2018, 08:32:07 pm »
May I make a few suggestion for improvements of the user interface?

Since the predefined arbitrary waveforms are a real PITA to access and finding the right one (that may fit a measurement situation best) even more so, wouldn't it be a good idea to have in case of the predefined arbitraries a menu item "Waveform Item" on the right side that can be zapped or scrolled through with the encoder? This would display the waveform in the frame to the left and would make visually finding the proper waveform mach easier and faster. Moreover, tapping on the touchscreen in the predefined arbitrary window should take the user directly back to the arbitrary selection table and not to the waveform selection menu. Even though this would be slightly inconsistent vs. the standard waveform functions, it would make life so much easier. If the user wants to access the basic waveform selection, there's always the hard key for that.

I think Siglent should really make better use of the touchscreen and not only duplicate functions that are already easily accessible via physical buttons. A good example is the output impedance ("Load") setting, here the accessibility via the touch screen is considerably improved.

Oh yes, and I would appreciate a WAV import function in EasyWave. If there already is one, I didn't find it, if not, the road via WAV -> CSV -> EasyWave -> SDG is somewhat uncomfortable. Maybe also include a direct import filter for WAV files int he SDG? Maybe integrate an MP3 player ??  ;)

One thing I don't like is the yellow symbol with the exclamation mark indication for every message. For me a symbol like that indicates a warning. If I insert a USB thumb drive and get a message with this sign, it's somewhat out of place. A blue "i" for information would be much more reasonable in that case.

Edit: Just noticed: The function buttons should, if pressed repeatedly, and the associated menu consists of more than one page, toggle between the pages. This would eliminate the need for a "Page" button and permit faster access to the functions.

These are just a few things that may improve usability a lot and they shouldn't be too difficult to implement.

Cheers,
Thomas

« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 08:47:42 pm by TurboTom »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #111 on: September 29, 2018, 11:28:56 am »
@TurboTom
I believe Siglent has sent you some beta firmware to address some issues you found. Have you anything to report ?
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #112 on: September 29, 2018, 12:44:40 pm »
Indeed, I received a beta firmware from Siglent. I agreed with them not to share it since it's experimental and Siglent don't want it to be "floating" through the web. I also had some good correspondence with them regarding my other ideas for improvements of the AWG and got their confirmation that their engineers will look into each of my points and check them for feasibility and will try to integrate them into future firmware versions. Most of these suggestions for improvement address the "eyes-off" operation of the U/I.

The beta firmware basically takes care of the signal pauses when changing parameters of the "conventional" waveforms. Actually, Siglent got that sorted, the problem is solved in independant channel mode only (that's what I was hoping for -- a big  :-+ for this!), a solution for the phase locked mode is apparently way more complex and will have to be addressed in future. I don't know when to expect the next official firmware update, but Siglent confirmed that the changes that solved the pausing problem will be included.

I'm actually very happy with their fast reaction to my "rants"...  ;), and especially this professional attitude convinced me to keep the SDG6022X.

Cheers,
Thomas
 
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Offline kerouanton

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #113 on: September 29, 2018, 05:05:32 pm »
Thanks Thomas for the feedback, and a huge thanks to Siglent engineers for their really fast support.

I also was hoping the User Interface would be improved on my SDG6000X on the waveform selection. As you described, the list of waveforms should ideally include a small graphical representation. But more importantly, pressing the "waveform" button should display the *last* menu bar with the currently selected waveform, and not reset to first page with "Sin etc...". That would save a few keypresses and frustration.
Even better: ideally, pressing the "Waveform" button after choosing an arbitrary waveform should bring us back to the precise waveform selection page where we were. It would save also a few keypresses...

Bruno
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #114 on: October 06, 2018, 10:10:13 am »
It seems that with square (pulse??) output and sweep enabled, the SDG6000X automatically changes rise- and fall time from 2ns to 1ns which results in considerable overshoot and ringing, see attached screenshot. Can somewone confirm this on a stock instrument (my machine is currently "improved")?

Thanks,
Thomas
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #115 on: October 06, 2018, 11:43:30 am »
It seems that with square (pulse??) output and sweep enabled, the SDG6000X automatically changes rise- and fall time from 2ns to 1ns which results in considerable overshoot and ringing, see attached screenshot.

Prob switches to DDS mode which is ringy by itself. Maybe worth checking if sweep change is smooth or "stepped" at top end. Sort of rings a bell if you look my issue with DDS square and phase shifts.
Will look sometime later if SDG2000X exibits same. It is of great interest because I sort of need SDG6000X myself but better if good people iron it out a little first... :)
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #116 on: October 06, 2018, 01:06:49 pm »
It seems that with square (pulse??) output and sweep enabled, the SDG6000X automatically changes rise- and fall time from 2ns to 1ns which results in considerable overshoot and ringing, see attached screenshot. Can somewone confirm this on a stock instrument (my machine is currently "improved")?

Thanks,
Thomas

I can confirm this. When sweep mode is engaged, the transition times decrease to 1ns (measured as some 1.3~1.4ns on the SDS2304X) and overshoot changes from virtually nothing to 10% for the rising edge - interestingly, only some 5% for the falling edge.


SDG6052X_Square_Sweep

It reverts back to 2ns and virtually no overshoot as soon as the sweep is switched off again.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 09:56:18 am by Performa01 »
 
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Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #117 on: October 06, 2018, 05:01:15 pm »
Yep, SDG2000X does square sweep with DDS. What annoying you cannot choose DDS for non-sweep mode, which could be useful in some cases. And of course no oversampled square for sweep currently... Sweeps 17.5-22.5MHz. Just square is 20MHz.



Edit: For reference. RFE6GEN 35-45MHz...


BTW looking manual for SDG2000X DDS is 300MSa/s => ~3.3ns step. SDG6000X is 1.2GSa/s => ~0.8ns step.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 09:35:54 pm by MrW0lf »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #118 on: October 06, 2018, 06:55:49 pm »
It seems that with square (pulse??) output and sweep enabled, the SDG6000X automatically changes rise- and fall time from 2ns to 1ns which results in considerable overshoot and ringing, see attached screenshot. Can somewone confirm this on a stock instrument (my machine is currently "improved")?

Thanks,
Thomas

What is this Rigol "DS4000 improved" true risetime.
In your image it looks there is around 0.7ns risetime.
Specified risetime for 500MHz model is 0.7ns and typically most of scopes are bit faster than specs limit.
Now if Siglent SDG risetime is 1ns, how this image is possible.
If rigol rt is 0.7 and Siglent 1ns then it need show 1.2ns
If Rigol risetime is (example) 0.5ns and siglent 0.5ns then we can see around 0.7ns (or what ever others what give: SQR(rtR^2+rtS^2) = 0.7
This can not  be Sinc interpolation "Gibbs" because sampling speed is 4GSa/s
So what is this around 500MHz ringing and where it happen and this same ringing frequency can also see before edge (aka preshoot) but quite low amplitude. Inside Siglent SDG alone or where.

What happen if you add 10dB attenuator to scope input bnc (and scope input 50ohm) and same with say example 10cm different cable length. (is it pure 50ohm impedance for these frequencies what are coming to input in this case)



@TurboTom image: Looks like 0.7ns risetime

« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 07:09:54 pm by rf-loop »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #119 on: October 07, 2018, 02:00:04 pm »
Anyway, here's the first clip, me demonstrating the sync / output jitter and some other strange stuff:

http://www.turbinemuseum.de/files/SDG6000X/SDG6000X_org2.mp4

I tried to reproduce the 1MHz/1.000.001MHz jitter bug (1st video), but didn't succeed. With the same settings  connecting the output trigger of the SDG on my SDS 1104, the output signal seems stable, in all cases. I'm using the latest firmware on both machines.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 02:02:24 pm by kerouanton »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #120 on: October 07, 2018, 02:21:05 pm »
Anyway, here's the first clip, me demonstrating the sync / output jitter and some other strange stuff:

http://www.turbinemuseum.de/files/SDG6000X/SDG6000X_org2.mp4

I tried to reproduce the 1MHz/1.000.001MHz jitter bug (1st video), but didn't succeed. With the same settings  connecting the output trigger of the SDG on my SDS 1104, the output signal seems stable, in all cases. I'm using the latest firmware on both machines.

But your trigger is from CH1, and then you look CH1 edge. Of course there is not visible jitter.
Set rising edge trigger to half of output trigger signal level (CH3) and then look CH1 edge. ;)
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Offline kerouanton

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #121 on: October 07, 2018, 02:24:26 pm »
Sure! I just noticed it  :palm:
Setting the trigger source to CH3 where my output trigger lands doesn't seem to change the result anyway. the signal is stable. Btw I forgot to mention I send a stable 10MHz reference clock to the SDG (Leobodnar GPSDO). Maybe it helps.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #122 on: October 07, 2018, 02:25:00 pm »
@rf-loop -

I did some tests with a 20db (10:1 by voltage) 50 ohm attenuator, here's the result. Please be aware that I dialed in the probe factor at the scope to match the attenuator so the amplitude measurements correspond to the input of the attenuator, not the scope. Both the attenuator (20dB SMA -> SMA) and the cable (90cm RG316 BNC -> SMA) I used are DIY but checked and verified for accuracy and impedance matching up to 2GHz, so in the required frequency range, we can consider them to perform accurately.

The first screeshot (No 14) represents the output signal of Leo Bodnar's fast square wave generator, routed directly through the attenuator to the scope input (no cables whatsoever. The pulser is characterized by Leo to provide rise- and fall times faster than 50ps. You may compare this measurement with the one here for the same signal without attenuator.

Next screenshot (No 15) corresponds to the square wave output of the SDG6000X without sweep, measured with the cable on the output and the attenuator on the scope input. Clean ("as a whistle"  ;)) 2ns slopes and almost no overshoot and no ringing present.

No. 17 shows the sweep, clearly observing the considerable ringing which is way more pronounced than the overshoot of the scope with the pulser (No 14). Slope is much faster now, if "averaging out" the ringing, it's in the ballpark of 1ns. I also took a reference trace with the cable / attenuator arrangement reversed, i.e. the attenuator is at the SDG6000X's ooutput. No difference was observable whatsoever.

To eliminate the faint possibility that the ringing is produced by the cable, I used a much shorter (length 30cm) RG316 cable in screenshot No 18, this time with the trace of No 17 as reference. The signal appears to have just a tiny bit higher amplitude which can be expected due to the much shorter length.

So I guess this pretty much proves that the ringing is actually present at the SDG6000X's output in square waveform sweep mode and that it's not a result of the scope's input circuitry or signal processing approach.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 02:28:17 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline kerouanton

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #123 on: October 07, 2018, 02:50:36 pm »
Okay I'm just a beginner in measurement...need to train more!
The issue is visible, yes.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #124 on: October 07, 2018, 04:18:11 pm »
So I guess this pretty much proves that the ringing is actually present at the SDG6000X's output in square waveform sweep mode and that it's not a result of the scope's input circuitry or signal processing approach.

If take 50% square from Arb wfm built-ins and set generation to DDS (from TrueArb)? Does it look the same?
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #125 on: October 07, 2018, 04:28:30 pm »
@rf-loop -

I did some tests with a 20db (10:1 by voltage) 50 ohm attenuator, here's the result. Please be aware that I dialed in the probe factor at the scope to match the attenuator so the amplitude measurements correspond to the input of the attenuator, not the scope. Both the attenuator (20dB SMA -> SMA) and the cable (90cm RG316 BNC -> SMA) I used are DIY but checked and verified for accuracy and impedance matching up to 2GHz, so in the required frequency range, we can consider them to perform accurately.

The first screeshot (No 14) represents the output signal of Leo Bodnar's fast square wave generator, routed directly through the attenuator to the scope input (no cables whatsoever. The pulser is characterized by Leo to provide rise- and fall times faster than 50ps. You may compare this measurement with the one here for the same signal without attenuator.

Next screenshot (No 15) corresponds to the square wave output of the SDG6000X without sweep, measured with the cable on the output and the attenuator on the scope input. Clean ("as a whistle"  ;)) 2ns slopes and almost no overshoot and no ringing present.

No. 17 shows the sweep, clearly observing the considerable ringing which is way more pronounced than the overshoot of the scope with the pulser (No 14). Slope is much faster now, if "averaging out" the ringing, it's in the ballpark of 1ns. I also took a reference trace with the cable / attenuator arrangement reversed, i.e. the attenuator is at the SDG6000X's ooutput. No difference was observable whatsoever.

To eliminate the faint possibility that the ringing is produced by the cable, I used a much shorter (length 30cm) RG316 cable in screenshot No 18, this time with the trace of No 17 as reference. The signal appears to have just a tiny bit higher amplitude which can be expected due to the much shorter length.

So I guess this pretty much proves that the ringing is actually present at the SDG6000X's output in square waveform sweep mode and that it's not a result of the scope's input circuitry or signal processing approach.

Thanks for the deeper tests you have done.
Now, new tests better exclude some possible external factors.
14. show some overshoot but in this context not so bad and only one overshoot without multiple cycle ringing.

Based to your tests here, SDG risetime  is in the class of 0.3ns (sweep mode, pulses)
(LeoBodnar's  average rt  vs SDG /sweep mode pulse rt average.)
But as in image 15, when rt is "normal" it looks better than just good.

Imho, 0.3ns risetime feels bit too fast for its output circuits. And together with this observed ringing, there can perhaps speculate, is it possible, there is bug in output filtering control.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #126 on: October 07, 2018, 06:05:43 pm »
Things get more an more weird and I get the impression that we're still at the very beginning of understanding and characterizing this instrument (and I'm afraid, Siglent may be as well...  ;)). As suggested by @rf-loop, I checked the overshoot / ringing situation with some ARB waveforms (among them Radar and Square 50%), and it appears that there's still some "controlled slope" managed in this mode, yet advanced to 1ns which results in some pretty ringing. Funny enough, if I additinoally enable sweep, I get the "uncontrolled slope" with rise times basically in the ballpark of my scope's frontend (only slightly slower). Please see the three screenshots. Configuration is the same as in my previous post. The REF trace in No 21 is the unswept square wave from No 20.

I also found that the Beta firmware provided by Siglent to me, fails with reproducing some of the arbitrary waveforms (Radar for instance doesn't work properly) and I also found some other problems so currently I'm back on the stock firmware. I won't got into detail here and discuss this with Siglent directly. It seems there's still some work do be done to sort all the problems completely. Since ringing / overshoot isn't specified for rise times faster than 2ns, these observations cannot be interpreted as bugs. But the customers may ask for a slope limiting function so the overshoot could actually be kept within specs in all operating modes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Siglent, in contrary I'm quite pleased of their open communication and the approach to solve the issues in collaboration with the users. I think this is the way to improve the product and finally get a better result than the engineers alone could have ever reached in the same time. Let's see how the journey will continue...
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #127 on: October 07, 2018, 10:01:39 pm »
Things get more an more weird and I get the impression that we're still at the very beginning of understanding and characterizing this instrument (and I'm afraid, Siglent may be as well...  ;)). As suggested by @rf-loop, I checked the overshoot / ringing situation with some ARB waveforms (among them Radar and Square 50%), and it appears that there's still some "controlled slope" managed in this mode, yet advanced to 1ns which results in some pretty ringing. Funny enough, if I additinoally enable sweep, I get the "uncontrolled slope" with rise times basically in the ballpark of my scope's frontend (only slightly slower). Please see the three screenshots. Configuration is the same as in my previous post. The REF trace in No 21 is the unswept square wave from No 20.

I also found that the Beta firmware provided by Siglent to me, fails with reproducing some of the arbitrary waveforms (Radar for instance doesn't work properly) and I also found some other problems so currently I'm back on the stock firmware. I won't got into detail here and discuss this with Siglent directly. It seems there's still some work do be done to sort all the problems completely. Since ringing / overshoot isn't specified for rise times faster than 2ns, these observations cannot be interpreted as bugs. But the customers may ask for a slope limiting function so the overshoot could actually be kept within specs in all operating modes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Siglent, in contrary I'm quite pleased of their open communication and the approach to solve the issues in collaboration with the users. I think this is the way to improve the product and finally get a better result than the engineers alone could have ever reached in the same time. Let's see how the journey will continue...

How you can say
Quote
Funny enough, if I additinoally enable sweep, I get the "uncontrolled slope" with rise times basically in the ballpark of my scope's frontend (only slightly slower).

Due to previous tests including Leo Bodnar pulser test result with your scope, I think Siglent risetime is here in image must be 21 much faster than your scope risetime.
(image 14 LeoBodnar pulser your scope measure risetime average 638ps. Lets think this is your scope risetime. Now image 21 your scope measure 721ps. It mean that Siglent risetime is 336ps. [ (SQR(638ps^2 + 336ps^2) = 721ps ] )

But how ever, it is intersting. And there is now some "dejavu". I believe I have seen this happen somewhere previously somehow but I do not remember where. I mean some Siglent older equipment where I have seen some increase in risetime when change some mode (perhaps just from continuous mode to sweep) but this is now only some weak memory image in my old head also my memory can be wrong. 

So or so.. 
but how it give 0.3ns risetime out...   
Is it same result if you do tests with SDG6022X "out from box" condition (official 200MHz version)?

Quote
I'm not bashing Siglent,...

Do not worry,  careful well done tests and real raw data is not at all like bashing.
Also if there is problem, honest truth wins trumpth (aka alternative truth). Even if truth is worse than alternative truth.

I do not even think if this is real problem or not or borderline but it is technically interesting this phenomena exist and least it is good to know. My opinion is that this is better to fix (hw or sw) in normal order after higher priority things. Siglent also needs to notice this.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #128 on: October 07, 2018, 10:43:04 pm »
Oh, well, my rise time "statement" refered to the figures indicated on the screen (i.e. the measurement). Of course, I'm aware that the real rise time of the AWG has to be faster than my scope to produce these figures and that the numbers add up geometrically. I guess I didn't express it correctly - that's the problem of two individuals, both communicating in a foreign language  ;).

Cheers,
Thomas
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #129 on: October 09, 2018, 07:25:23 am »
Previously I told I have some kind of "dejavu" about something like this what I have seen somewhere....
I have checked it and I think I find this what I mean, not exactly same but..

SDG5000

If normal Square wave, (example 10MHz Sqr) rise time is  ~5.7ns

If just turn Sweep on (without any sweep, example start 10MHz and stop 10MHz)  risetime is 1ns more fast,  ~4.7ns and it also add some small detectable  "ringing" after edge but not at all this ringing level amount what we can see in @TurboTom images.
So, with different numbers but roughly same effect.
It looks like sweep mode change filtering.
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Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #130 on: October 09, 2018, 08:30:51 am »
It looks like sweep mode change filtering.

I suspect it changes also from oversampling to DDS and you will get decreased frequency resolution also. Width SDG2000X 1.2GSa/s => 300MSa/s, SDG6000X 2.4GSa/s => 1.2GSa/s. This might also explain why on 2000 between channel oversampled (!) square vs sine phase relations are "complicated"*. Some "filtering" gets wfm shape straight but programmers have forgotten to hack phases right also. I'd suggest to check for sine vs square phase issues on 6000. Is it non-sweep square phase messed up in stepped manner depending on phase value (NB! error is also "oversmapled"), and is square sweep discretely stepped by 0.8ns.

Edit: * turns out not complicated at all :P
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 10:30:05 am by MrW0lf »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #131 on: October 09, 2018, 09:50:55 am »
Last weekend I’ve had a look at the “undulation” effect at 1ns transition times and sure enough I was able to reproduce it on the SDG6052X, as demonstrated by the following screenshots. Yet it’ll turn out that’s not the whole story…

First the minimum pulse width of 3.4ns with 1ns transition times viewed on a fast scope at a timebase of 5ns/div. The reference traces are just there to demonstrate what this pulse looks like with 200MHz (blue) and 20MHz (orange) 1st order bandwidth limit. This further demonstrates that we really need a fast scope in order to properly characterize a beast like the SDG6052X:


Pulse_BWL_SDG6052X_1.5V_3.4ns_1ns


The same scenario at a faster timebase of 1ns/div just for closer inspection. We can see that the rise- and fall times of the SDG6052X are still pretty accurate despite the continuously changing waveform, aka “undulation”:


Pulse_BWL_SDG6052X_1.5V_3.4ns_1ns_Z


As we already know, this effect nearly ceases when reverting to the default 2ns transition times:


Pulse_BWL_SDG6052X_1.5V_3.4ns_2ns


The same “undulation” effect can be observed with wider pulses, like 10ns in the following example:


Pulse_BWL_SDG6052X_1.5V_10ns_1ns


And again, the pulse gets pretty clean with 2ns transition times:


Pulse_BWL_SDG6052X_1.5V_10ns_2ns


So far so good (or not), this has been nothing new. But when I needed a narrow pulse with fast transitions again the next day, things looked completely different. As can be seen, all of a sudden the shape of the pulse is now absolutely stable and as expected, average transition times got even faster with less standard deviation:


Pulse_SDG6052X_1.5V_A10dB_3.3ns_1ns


The same is true for the wider 10ns pulse:


Pulse_SDG6052X_1.5V_A10dB_10ns_1ns


Finally a cursor measurement in order to confirm the automatic rise time measurement of 970ps:


Pulse_SDG6052X_RT_1.5V_A10dB_10ns_1ns


So it looks like the SDG6000X behaves differently (depending on its mood) every other day and I suspect some incomplete initialization, which Siglent should be able to fix eventually. At least my test indicates that the issue should be easily fixable.


Btw, I also looked at the Sync to Output jitter and was unable to reproduce it at 1MHz. Yet the ~3.3ns jitter is certainly there at most other frequencies.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 02:27:10 pm by Performa01 »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #133 on: October 09, 2018, 11:44:49 am »
a fast scope

:popcorn:

Indeed :)

After all, there are signals much faster than what an SDG6052X can do (and these could use an even faster scope), so your scope can never be too fast ;)


Demo_Square_160MHz_10mV


 

Offline JohnG

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #134 on: October 09, 2018, 01:21:48 pm »
so your scope can never be too fast ;)

Agreed :-+
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Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #135 on: October 09, 2018, 08:53:38 pm »
Hello,

is this a new Siglent scope?

Best regards
egonotto
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #137 on: October 09, 2018, 09:01:50 pm »
I thought it was a homebrew model...
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #138 on: October 09, 2018, 09:06:29 pm »
It seems like a 1GHz model....
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #139 on: October 10, 2018, 07:59:18 am »
a fast scope

:popcorn:

Indeed :)

After all, there are signals much faster than what an SDG6052X can do (and these could use an even faster scope), so your scope can never be too fast ;)


Demo_Square_160MHz_10mV

Risetime  and layout looks like scope is Ding Yang SDS5104X  (1GHz) or better.
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Offline KaneTW

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #140 on: October 10, 2018, 02:25:18 pm »
The UI reminds me a bit of my R&S RTB2004.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #141 on: November 05, 2018, 01:37:09 pm »
Meanwhile more than a month has passed since Siglent's first reaction to my "rants" and the bug reports (and the beta firmware that introduced new bugs so I'm back on the stock version), and since then, it's been rather silent except a short PM round about three weeks ago that their engineers are working on the waveform quality issue (probably the overshoot/undulation problem vs. the option to have a 2ns rise time in all operational modes which should put the instrument overshoot-wise within its specs). Actually, I already regret not to have drawn the option to return the instrument after I thorougly tested it. My current situation is like this: When I'm doing some quick tests (calibration of my turbine engine control units or the like), I use a different generator of which I know that the output signal is reliable.

Just now that I wanted to give the SDG6000X another chance to prove itself useful, I found another bug in the standard firmware that I quickly report here: Phase setting independent, select any built-in arbitrary waveform -- I tested with several --, for simplicity reasons, just use "StairUp". I checked at 2kHz but I think the frequency is not really important. Then toggle the "ArbMode" from DDS to TrueArb (I selected 65.536MSa/s to have the same frequency) and back to DDS -- see how the slopes look funny. Toggling On/Off any of the Mod / Sweep / Burst functions will restore the waveform. In phase locked mode, this doesn't happen.

It's really a shame that instruments of apparetly decent hardware design get crippled by unfinished software. Of course I'm aware that probably 80 to 90% of the complexity and work of an instrument like this lies in software design. Anyway, regardless of the complexity situation, I think a customer can expect to receive an instrument (that's clearly designed towards at least the semi-professional user) that has been thoroughly tested at the manufacturer's QC / engineering department. And then, bugs like these shouldn't have slipped through.

Whatsoever, I really hope for a substantial bug fix / firmware update in due time.

Cheers,
Thomas
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 05:58:37 pm by TurboTom »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #142 on: November 08, 2018, 12:44:26 pm »
It took me a lot of picoseconds to (basically) understand all of your screenshots and explanations.

You guys are really awesome!  :-+
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #143 on: January 29, 2019, 11:38:44 am »
Any news on new firmware...??
I bought one in meantime for a project I'm working on..

I also confirmed all bugs here mentioned, and found some new ones, connected to output filtering issue.
I found that sometimes changing frequency on CH2 upsets filtering on CH1 so pulses start ringing. Disable and enable CH1 makes it OK again.
Also, once I had problem that I loaded two different AW into two channels, did what I was doing, and when switching back to pulses it also started ringing.
I had to reboot this time to make it ok.

Apart from that (I hope it will be solved soon), powerful little beast.
Amplitude flatness seems excellent, nicely implemented PRBS with preset logic levels and differential driving..
Channel mixing is also very nice feature.

I also have a feature suggestion (request ?): would it be possible to add a waveform sequence mode like Keysight 33500B/33600A (Waveform sequencing) or Rigol DG800/900 (Sequence function)?
That would be enormous usability and capability enhancement.

Regards,

Sinisa
 

Offline janekivi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #144 on: January 29, 2019, 04:38:54 pm »
Some of their generators got today new firmware... but this doesn't mean anything.
May be adds a little bit hope.
SDG1000 Firmware UpdateCurrent Version: V1.01.01.39R7 | Published:2019-01-29
SDG1000X Firmware UpdateCurrent Version: V1.01.01.30R1B2 | Published:2019-01-28
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #145 on: February 12, 2019, 04:20:50 am »
I'm having trouble with the memdump technique. I can get a root console and have had good luck with the "move a file" technique, but that only unlocks bandwidth, not IQ. Here's what I have tried:

* Grabbing /dev/mem and running FindKeys on it. It returns many hits. I haven't been able to get TryKeys to work though. These tools look slightly oscilloscope specific?

* Writing a quick program to grab and scan awg.app's memory directly (ptrace, /proc/pid/{mem,maps}). I look for 16-char capital alphanumerics with at most 6 repeats of any single character. I can see two copies of my 200MHz Bandwidth key if it's installed, but if I remove the key from the xml file without touching the serial number, I can't find it in memory anymore. I don't see any other keys. One candidate, but it doesn't work and it doesn't have similar surroundings to the known real key, so I'm pretty sure it's a false positive.

I suspect I am missing a simple trick. Do you have to do something to provoke the other keys to appear in memory?

In any case, I have attached the tool I made. Here's the output. Dots are key candidates. Only one looks sane and it doesn't work. The known good key does not appear unless it is installed.
Code: [Select]
/usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0 # ps -e | grep awg
  667 root       0:13 /usr/bin/siglent/awg.app
  839 root       0:00 grep awg
/usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0 # ./memdump 667 mem2.bin > mem2.txt
SKIP 00008000-005d3000 r-xp 00000000 00:0f 612        /usr/bin/siglent/awg.app
SCAN 005da000-0094c000 rw-p 005ca000 00:0f 612        /usr/bin/siglent/awg.app
SCAN 0094c000-01b21000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [heap]
...
SCAN 28600000-28680000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 28680000-28700000 rw-s 00000000 00:06 1108       /dev/fb0
SKIP 28700000-28701000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 28701000-28f00000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:746]
SCAN 28f00000-28f80000 rw-s 0ad80000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 28f80000-29000000 rw-s 0ad00000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 29000000-2b800000 rw-s 0d800000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 2b800000-2b880000 rw-s 0ac80000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 2b880000-2b900000 rw-s 0ac00000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 2b900000-2e100000 rw-s 0b000000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SKIP 2e100000-2e101000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 2e101000-2e900000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:728]
SKIP 2e900000-2e901000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 2e901000-2f100000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:703]
SKIP 2f100000-2f101000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 2f101000-2f900000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:702]
SKIP 2f900000-2f901000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 2f901000-30100000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:701]
SKIP 30100000-30101000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 30101000-30900000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:700]
SKIP 30900000-30901000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 30901000-31100000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:699]
SKIP 31100000-31101000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 31101000-31900000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:692]
SKIP 31900000-31901000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 31901000-32100000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:691]
SKIP 32100000-32101000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 32101000-32900000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:689]
SKIP 32900000-32901000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 32901000-33100000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:688]
SKIP 33100000-33101000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 33101000-33900000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:687]
SKIP 33900000-33901000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 33901000-34100000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:686]
SKIP 34100000-34101000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 34101000-34900000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 34900000-34955000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0
SKIP 34955000-34a00000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 34a40000-34a50000 rw-s 0af00000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 34a50000-34a60000 rw-s 0ae00000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 34a60000-34a70000 rw-s 40400000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 34a70000-34a80000 rw-s 40410000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 34a80000-34a90000 rw-s 40600000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 34a90000-34aa0000 rw-s 40400000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 34aa0000-34ab0000 rw-s 40410000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 34ab0000-34ac0000 rw-s 40600000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 34ac0000-34ad0000 rw-s 40400000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 34ad0000-34ae0000 rw-s 40410000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 34ae0000-34af0000 rw-s 40600000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SKIP 34af0000-34af1000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 34af1000-352f0000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:684]
SKIP 352f0000-352f1000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 352f1000-35af0000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:683]
SKIP 35af0000-35af1000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 35af1000-362f0000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:679]
SKIP 362f0000-362f1000 ---p 00000000 00:00 0
SCAN 362f1000-36af0000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack:678]
SKIP 36af0000-36af4000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 1489472    /lib/libdl-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36af4000-36afb000 ---p 00004000 1f:05 1489472    /lib/libdl-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36afb000-36afc000 r--p 00003000 1f:05 1489472    /lib/libdl-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36afc000-36afd000 rw-p 00004000 1f:05 1489472    /lib/libdl-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36afd000-36c39000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 739944     /lib/libc-2.13.so
SKIP 36c39000-36c41000 ---p 0013c000 1f:05 739944     /lib/libc-2.13.so
SKIP 36c41000-36c43000 r--p 0013c000 1f:05 739944     /lib/libc-2.13.so
SKIP 36c43000-36c44000 rw-p 0013e000 1f:05 739944     /lib/libc-2.13.so
SCAN 36c44000-36c47000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0
SKIP 36c47000-36c66000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 1498276    /lib/libgcc_s.so.1
SKIP 36c66000-36c6d000 ---p 0001f000 1f:05 1498276    /lib/libgcc_s.so.1
SKIP 36c6d000-36c6e000 rw-p 0001e000 1f:05 1498276    /lib/libgcc_s.so.1
SKIP 36c6e000-36cdc000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 1547208    /lib/libm-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36cdc000-36ce3000 ---p 0006e000 1f:05 1547208    /lib/libm-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36ce3000-36ce4000 r--p 0006d000 1f:05 1547208    /lib/libm-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36ce4000-36ce5000 rw-p 0006e000 1f:05 1547208    /lib/libm-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36ce5000-36da9000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 9371652    /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
SKIP 36da9000-36db0000 ---p 000c4000 1f:05 9371652    /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
SKIP 36db0000-36db4000 r--p 000c3000 1f:05 9371652    /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
SKIP 36db4000-36db6000 rw-p 000c7000 1f:05 9371652    /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
SCAN 36db6000-36dbc000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0
...
SKIP 36dbc000-36edc000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 1981724    /lib/libxml2.so.2.7.8
SKIP 36edc000-36ee3000 ---p 00120000 1f:05 1981724    /lib/libxml2.so.2.7.8
SKIP 36ee3000-36ee9000 rw-p 0011f000 1f:05 1981724    /lib/libxml2.so.2.7.8
SKIP 36ee9000-36f04000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 7050472    /usr/lib/libglog.so.0
SKIP 36f04000-36f0b000 ---p 0001b000 1f:05 7050472    /usr/lib/libglog.so.0
SKIP 36f0b000-36f0c000 rw-p 0001a000 1f:05 7050472    /usr/lib/libglog.so.0
SCAN 36f0c000-36f1c000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0
SKIP 36f1c000-36f36000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 3682060    /lib/libz.so.1.2.8
SKIP 36f36000-36f3e000 ---p 0001a000 1f:05 3682060    /lib/libz.so.1.2.8
SKIP 36f3e000-36f3f000 rw-p 0001a000 1f:05 3682060    /lib/libz.so.1.2.8
SKIP 36f3f000-36f46000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 1967524    /lib/librt-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36f46000-36f4d000 ---p 00007000 1f:05 1967524    /lib/librt-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36f4d000-36f4e000 r--p 00006000 1f:05 1967524    /lib/librt-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36f4e000-36f4f000 rw-p 00007000 1f:05 1967524    /lib/librt-2.11.1.so
SKIP 36f4f000-36f64000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 1925640    /lib/libpthread-2.13.so
SKIP 36f64000-36f6b000 ---p 00015000 1f:05 1925640    /lib/libpthread-2.13.so
SKIP 36f6b000-36f6c000 r--p 00014000 1f:05 1925640    /lib/libpthread-2.13.so
SKIP 36f6c000-36f6d000 rw-p 00015000 1f:05 1925640    /lib/libpthread-2.13.so
SCAN 36f6d000-36f6f000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0
SKIP 36f6f000-36f8f000 r-xp 00000000 1f:05 655204     /lib/ld-2.13.so
SCAN 36f90000-36f91000 rw-s f8001000 00:06 15         /dev/mem
SCAN 36f91000-36f96000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0
SKIP 36f96000-36f97000 r--p 0001f000 1f:05 655204     /lib/ld-2.13.so
SKIP 36f97000-36f98000 rw-p 00020000 1f:05 655204     /lib/ld-2.13.so
SCAN 3e9fe000-3ea1f000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0          [stack]
SKIP 3eff7000-3eff8000 r-xp 00000000 00:00 0          [sigpage]
SKIP ffff0000-ffff1000 r-xp 00000000 00:00 0          [vectors]

 

Offline gorillamotors

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #146 on: February 26, 2019, 09:37:43 am »
I think that actually helps a lot... thank you tv84! :)
I got the 6022X to 500MHz but how do I upgrade the IQ license?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 08:04:58 am by gorillamotors »
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #147 on: March 22, 2019, 12:32:58 pm »
2 months passed...
Is there ANY news on new firmware for SDG6000X ???

Anybody ?

Thanks.
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #148 on: March 22, 2019, 07:33:52 pm »
Actually more than five (!) month since my last correspondence with Siglent regarding the bugs and possible improvements. Either they are very busy with other equipment and the SDG6000X series is running under low priority or the problems are possibly more severe than anticipated and maybe require a hardware tweak (anti-aliasing-filter?) to get solved properly.

I hope the problems get finally taken care of. Shortly!  :'(
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #149 on: March 22, 2019, 09:34:51 pm »
I think they are working, SDG1000x just got upgrade, they gave it Truearb tech and preview of ARB waveforms when selecting...

It seems they are dedicated to do it right, it's just takes a lot of time..
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #150 on: May 08, 2019, 03:39:37 am »
New firmware for SDG6000X models.

Version 6.01.01.33R2
25.5 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8841/


Changelog
1. Removed the warning message when parameter is set to a value beyond the limit
2. Supported to copy/paste/delete folder in Store/Recall file manager
3. Optimized initialization time when the waveform is switched between IQ and other waveforms
4. Supported phase compensation in IQ mode
5. Fixed several bugs:
a) [2018/09/14-924144, 2018/09/14-937446] Signals get interrupted upon timing-related change of the settings in Independent mode
b) Anomaly on square/pulse waveform with some settings
c) [2018/11/06-92208] Anomaly on arb waveform when toggle the "ArbMode" from DDS to TrueArb and back to DDS in Independent mode
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #151 on: May 08, 2019, 06:51:21 am »
I will test thoroughly later when I have time..

Update went  without a problem.
On a first view, going into I/Q and out of it to other mode is instantaneous as opposed to 10s of seconds .  :-+
Also they didn't say it in release notes, but they GREATLY improved U/I for choosing built in waveforms.  :-+ :-+

After more testing I will report back.

So far promising..

Thanks to Tautech for heads up...
Regards,
 

Offline janekivi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #152 on: May 08, 2019, 03:20:44 pm »

Changelog
1. Removed the warning message when parameter is set to a value beyond the limit


They have eye on us or can they see by himself this was good idea.
This is lux model, for SDG2000X I must have my own solution....?

SDG2000X_eevblog_edit_23R7.zip - with reduced ".. limit..." message box delay.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #153 on: May 08, 2019, 08:40:36 pm »
New upgrades in this new .ADS:

upgrade_uimage "BOOT.bin" "mtd0"
upgrade_uimage "uImage" "mtd1"
upgrade_uimage "devicetree.dtb" "mtd2"
upgrade_uimage "rootfs.cramfs" "mtd11"
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #154 on: May 08, 2019, 08:42:30 pm »
They have eye on us or can they see by himself this was good idea.
This is lux model, for SDG2000X I must have my own solution....?

SDG2000X_eevblog_edit_23R7.zip - with reduced ".. limit..." message box delay.

In the next one, the password already comes as "eevblog"...  ;D
 

Offline BillB

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #155 on: May 08, 2019, 10:14:52 pm »
They have eye on us or can they see by himself this was good idea.
This is lux model, for SDG2000X I must have my own solution....?

SDG2000X_eevblog_edit_23R7.zip - with reduced ".. limit..." message box delay.

In the next one, the password already comes as "eevblog"...  ;D

That would save everyone a little time, wouldn't it.  :-DD
 
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Offline jjoonathan

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #156 on: May 08, 2019, 11:45:43 pm »
> 1. Removed the warning message when parameter is set to a value beyond the limit

This alone would make the update worth it!
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #157 on: May 09, 2019, 06:51:09 am »
I did a bit of testing last night, didn't have time to do more than quick run through..

As far as I could see, error that filtering (edge control) on one channel would go crazy when you twiddle frequency on other channel seems to be fixed. Or at least seems so from limited testing I did.

Will test more later.
 

Offline janekivi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #158 on: May 09, 2019, 04:47:28 pm »
New upgrades in this new .ADS:

upgrade_uimage "BOOT.bin" "mtd0"
upgrade_uimage "uImage" "mtd1"
upgrade_uimage "devicetree.dtb" "mtd2"
upgrade_uimage "rootfs.cramfs" "mtd11"

What you like to say there... most of the files are the same.
BOOT.bin - exactly the same
devicetree.dtb - exactly the same
uImage - is updated
update.sh - has 2 changed rows
awg.app - is much bigger now
rootfs.cramfs - has new file dates inside I think, files are the same
other directories have all the old files with 12 February 2019 date
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #159 on: May 10, 2019, 12:02:53 am »
It seems Siglent managed to correct some of the major shortcomings of the SDG6000X in the new firmware which are the menu system to access the built-in arbitraries (nice solution btw, yet I would have prefered to get a direct access to the arbitrary waveform selection screen instead of the general waveforms selection menu -- there's a hard button for that already -- when I'm in built-in arbitrary mode and tap the picture of the arbitrary curve on the touchscreen). Maybe that's a possible improvement for the next update...

In phase-independant mode, I really wasn't able to notice any glitches when changing waveform parameters (like frequency, pulse width or rise/fall times). Seems like that problem is solved, at least to tell from my superficial testing tonight.

To eliminate the end-of-range warning with the accompanying delay is also a big improvement.

Yet, I also still found a lot to desire: When changing several parameters in sequence, why doesn't the instrument remember the digit of a parameter that had been modified and returns the cursor to the same digit if the user returns to the parameter after adjusting something different in between. This would improve usability considerably.

Moreover, to improve eyes-off experience (I know, I must seem like an addict to that...  ;)), it would be great to be able to set limits to the parameters (like it's possible to set a limit for the output amplitude). Let's say, I want to generate an old-fashioned PPM radio control signal, set the frequency of a pulse to 50Hz and would like to generate a pulse width between 1 and 2ms. If I could set limits for that, I could adjust the pulse width with the encoder without having to look at the screen while I'm always certain to stay within the valid interval. Come on Siglent, this shouldn't be too difficult to implement.

Signal-quality wise, not too much has happened. To keep the "undulation" and signal overshoot low, be sure to select a minimum rise time of 2ns or higher (where applicable).

I still found a real bug that results in a completely messed up signal. You can replicate it with the following sequence:

- Phase mode independant
- output a 500MHz (or thereabout) sine signal on a channel of choice.
- change the frequency of that channel to 10MHz by entering the new frequency via the keypad (didn't try using the encoder)
- change the waveform to square and observe what you get on an oscilloscope

You can get back the undistorted square wave by toggling burst or sweep on and off.
It seems like the fpga doesn't get initialized properly during the frequency change sequence, or maybe some garbage stays in the waveform memory that should be deleted / overwritten. See the attached screenshots, the first with the distorted "square wave"  ::), the second after toggling "burst".

Seems like we can still expect a few firmware updates...I hope.

Anyway, thanks to Siglent for the fixes so far!

Cheers!
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #160 on: May 13, 2019, 02:27:12 pm »
New peculiar findings (bugs) with the SDG6X:

Even in independant phase mode, there may still be some glitches when outputting pulses under certain circumstances -- Select waveform pulse, frequency 150MHz and pulse width 3.3ns (I think this is configured automatically like specified when the mentioned frequency is dialed in). Rise/fall times 1ns. Then, select a lower frequency (100kHz for example) and tweak the frequency via the encoder. You can now observe the glitches shown in the first screenshot while adjusting the frequency upwards. When lowering the frequency, the signal doesn't glitch. If the pulse width is altered, the glitch disappears.

Another, very nice finding is how the SDG6X will output a 300MHz sine wave of considerable amplitude (more than supposed to in "real" sine mode at that frequency) in rectangular mode at 0Hz  :o, see the photo. And here's how to get there: Phase mode independant, sine output, frequency 500MHz. Then change waveform to square and dial in frequency 0Hz -- voila. You can tweak the amplitude somewhat, at more than 3.2Vpp into 50 Ohms, the output signal gets distorted/modulated, probably due to an overload of the output amplifier.

After that I experimented with phase coupled mode a little and just for fun generated the "old time" PAL sweep signals (i.e. 50Hz and 15625Hz, triangle with 100% symmetry). In X-Y mode of the scope I wanted to check if I get a proper screen raster. Just for fun, I also viewed both waveforms in Y-t mode to see if I could align the phase -- surprise, surprise, the phase was walking through at a very slow pace. If the math was correct in the SDG, this shouldn't happen and the phase of the waveforms should stay locked against each other, maybe oscillate a tiny bit to and fro but definitely not continuously drift. The last two screenshots show this behavior, once as a still and then as a history plot (don't know why the rigol scope produces the glitch at 0 phase difference -- maybe while the counters roll over).

An then, there's still the substantial ringing in Arbitrary DDS mode after steep slopes. When selecting TrueARB, it's gone due to the slower slopes. I guess this cannot be easily solved in software, somehow there would have to be a "soft slope" mechanism implemented to limit the rise/fall times to slower than 2ns. No screen shot for this, sorry...

So depending on the settings and sequence of inputs, the SDG6X may well produce unexpected signals at the output which still means it's an unreliable instrument that cannot be depended on completely without additional care and checkups. As this, I wouldn't consider it to be a professional instrument with its current firmware. I guess there's some way to go for the Siglent engineers after all. I really hope they will put the effort into the SDG6X to eliminate the problems that are still present, the hardware is really capable and the firmware got improved a lot with the current release, but we're not quite there!

I'll keep on experimenting as time permits and will post new findings as they turn up.

Cheers,
Thomas



« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 07:40:27 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline electronic_eel

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #161 on: June 18, 2019, 06:31:31 pm »
For anyone looking for janekivi's update files with patched root password:
Try the ones posted by tv84 instead:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091
 

Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #162 on: August 17, 2019, 12:40:48 pm »
I finally got some spare time to measure the level accuracy and amplitude flatness of the SDG6052X as a sine signal source for e.g. frequency response measurements.

As a comparison (and as a sanity check for my measurements) I’m including the corresponding results for a high performance signal generator (Anritsu MG3633A), which features excellent phase noise, high output power and good amplitude accuracy, especially if it is operated below 500MHz.

The Siglent SDG6052X can replace an RF signal generator in many situations, if the following limitations are observed:

•   Maximum output level is limited to 0dBm for the full frequency range of 500MHz (Anritsu MG3633A: +19dBm up to >1GHz)
•   Output levels below -56dBm require external attenuators (Anritsu MG3633A: internal attenuator to -140dBm)

So the first test is for the maximum output level of 0dBm:


SDG6052X Level Accuracy 0dBm

As we can see, the output level is a little on the low side on my unit with an average error of -0.1dB. There are weird discontinuities of +0.12dB at 1MHz and -0.12dB at 300 and 400MHz, but the overall amplitude flatness is rather decent at +0.08/-0.17dB (0.25dB peak to peak deviation).

Compare this to the Anritsu MG633A:


MG3633A Level Accuracy 0dBm

The Output level is spot-on with an average error of just -0.01dB. There are no discontinuities and the amplitude flatness is excellent at +0.09/-0.11dB (0.2dB peak to peak deviation).

When comparing the two devices, we should keep in mind that the Anritsu MG3633A is a 2.7GHz generator, so it can easily give excellent performance in the small subrange of 500MHz, whereas the Siglent SDG 6052X has to approach its absolute bandwidth limits.

Yet there is a sweet spot for the SDG6052X when it is operated at -30dBm:


SDG6052X Level Accuracy -30dBm

Once again the output level is a little low with an average error of -0.05dB. The only discontinuity of +0.1dB occurs at 1MHz again and the amplitude flatness is sensational at +0.06/-0.04dB (0.1dB peak to peak deviation).

In the same situation, the Anritsu MG3633A performs slightly worse:


MG3633A Level Accuracy -30dBm

Output level is a little high with an average error of +0.11dB. There are no discontinuities and the amplitude flatness is excellent at +0.07/-0.1dB (0.17dB peak to peak deviation).

I’ve tested all output levels from 0dBm down to -50dBm (in 10dB steps), but below -40dBm (100nW) my power meter introduces additional errors. At least all meaurements are very consistent with the results from the MG3633A.

The measurement results are only shown for frequencies above 100kHz because the power sensor is specified for 200kHz to 18GHz. It works well enough down to at least 20kHz, but the additional errors cannot be ignored anymore when we’re expecting accuracies of better than 0.1 decibel.

Here is a table overview of my measurements:


SDG6052X Level Accuracy Table

Level is the nominal signal level as it was set on the generator.
Min. is the minimum absolute level over the full measurement bandwidth.
Max. is the maximum absolute level over the full measurement bandwidth.
Err_max is the maximum absolute amplitude error over the full measurement bandwidth.
Mean is the average absolute amplitude level.
Dev+ is the positive peak deviation of the output level relative to Mean.
Dev- is the negative peak deviation of the output level relative to Mean.

Here is an overview of the SDG6052X measurements, starting at 10kHz (which is outside the specification of the power sensor!):


SDG6052X Level Accuracy Overview

EDIT: Frequency response overview graph added.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 06:58:44 am by Performa01 »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #163 on: August 18, 2019, 05:44:59 pm »
I’ve mentioned the possible use of the SDG6000X as a substitute for a RF signal generator and demonstrated that amplitude accuracy and flatness up to 500MHz is absolutely adequate for the task.

Yet there are some other considerations, such as frequency accuracy and phase noise.

I’ve measured a 100MHz sine signal as 99.9999729MHz on my sample of the SDG6052X, This is a deviation of 28.1Hz or 0.281ppm. This means that the frequency accuracy is at least on par with most of the cheaper signal generators, unless they have the (usually expensive) OCXO option fitted. Since the SDG6000X accepts an external reference clock, the accuracy can be easily increased to any desired level.

Now for the phase noise, also measured at 100MHz. First the general shape of the noise spectrum, displayed within +/-100kHz of the carrier:


SDG6052X SA CF100MHz SP200kHz RBW1Hz

This looks very clean and clearly beats the old analog PLL synthesizers by quite a margin.

Here’s the corresponding phase noise plot for 10Hz to 1MHz carrier offset – which might just show the limits of the spectrum analyzer rather than the SDG6000X – at least for frequency offsets above 1kHz:


SDG6052X PN 100MHz

A phase noise of -98 dBc/Hz at 100Hz offset is certainly very competitive.

Most likely these measurements also apply for the SDG2000X.

As a conclusion, the Siglent 16bit SDG generators can replace a RF signal generator and within their limited frequency range they will perform vastly better than most ancient boat anchors from the analog PLL synthesizer era. You just need an external step attenuator (or 3-4 20dB inline attenuators per channel) to be able to get the low level signals required for receiver testing.
 
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Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #164 on: September 25, 2019, 04:49:02 am »
Firmware update for SDG6000X models.

Version 6.01.01.35R5B1
25.6 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG6000X_6.01.01.35R5B1_EN.zip

Release notes
1. Changed the upper limit of carrier frequency (sine) in Burst mode from 300 MHz to 500 MHz
2. Added some missing SCPI commands
3. Fixed several bugs:
a) Messed up signal after switching from 500 MHz sine to square in independent mode
b) Glitches when outputting pulses under certain circumstances in independent mode
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #165 on: September 25, 2019, 09:48:11 am »
Upgrade went without problems.

I tested only one thing, the one that was most annoying to me: the undulation phenomenon.

And it seems that is gone, at least I cannot reproduce it with previous settings.

Will test more and report.

EDIT:

- Tried bug from post 596 by TurboTom (500 MHz sine> 10 MHz> square) and that is fixed too..
- Dropouts in signal  (few ms long) are still there when you change settings. I see it happening in phase locked mode. It stops to resynchronise channels.
- In phase independent mode (P.I.M.) i don't see glitches, even for current channel. It simply starts with different timing, no glitch.  It does seem to switchover at any time, not at zero..But signal is continuous.
- In P.I.M., on squarewave, duty cycles changes (manual and numeric) are seamless..
- In P.I.M., on pulse mode, duty cycles changes (manual and numeric) are seamless..
- squarewave has fixed 2 ns edges. (SDG6052X). Quite clean.
- In pulse mode, when edges are set to 1 ns, they are actually sub 1 ns. There is ringing on top, but no undulation of any sort. When set to 1.3 ns edges signal gets much better.
Actually my scope measures 1 ns when gen is set to 1,2 ns, which, when you take into account 450ps scope rise time, this ends up around 900 ps.
So at 1.3 ns set at AWG, you get about real 1 ns edges. at AWG set to 1 ns, you get around 800 ps measured, which would be around 660 ps coming from AWG.

Those are 10%/90% times from automated measurements.

I use MSOX3104T (internal 50 Ohm termination) and cables that came with SDG6000X.
Maybe someone with faster scope with clean step response (Gaussian, mine has maximally flat response) should verify if this is not my scope acting up.
I don't have alternative 1 ns flat top signal source at hand to verify scope response.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 09:10:18 pm by 2N3055 »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #166 on: September 25, 2019, 07:22:43 pm »
Just wanted to mention something.
And I mean this in a nicest possible way... I really love my SDG6000X. But...
FIX THE ENCODER !!!!. Please!
It is not skipping sometimes. It is skipping all the time...
It's driving me crazy...  |O
Or do I have one with bad encoder??
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #167 on: September 27, 2019, 09:57:35 am »
I haven't got much of a problem with the encoder on mine, so maybe you've really got a generator with a faulty one. These tiny "twisty-switcherydoodahs" haven't really got a reputation for high quality or long service life. The encoders of the 1990s "name brand" gear are someting else, definitely...

But I've got a different problem (rant mode on):
After the update, which went completely eventless, I had to do some tests of a circuit, outputting a pulse waveform of 18kHz. Everything went well and no problem whatsoever. I noticed short interruptions of the waveform when I changed the parameters, though, which were due to the instrument configured in "phase coupled" mode.

Powered the thing down and up again after the lunch break. Changed phase mode to independent and continued testing, just to find the circuit was behaving completely different from before. Feeling a little awkward about the generator already, I looked at the signal, and see what I found (my apologies for the poor photo quality and the mess in the background -- I guess such is life ;)...). Once again, the memory of the AWG appears not to have been initialized properly.

I expected Siglent to have taken care of these initialization problems with this firmware update. I pointed them to the problem when switching from high frequency sine to "0Hz Square" which has been solved now. But can't they just look at all the situations when a complete initialization of the WF memory is required, especially when there has been an issue with this before? Come on Siglent, do your homework! You are asking definitely professional prices for that instrument, and a professional instrument requires one thing first and this is reliability and dependability (okay, two things...). Finding the instrument to output a waveform that's not configured on the screen is a no-go, period! TBH, right now I prefer a Rigol AWG any time over this crap and I really regret not having returned it while I could. Maybe the problems will get sorted eventually with follow-up updates, but with the experience so far, will I ever trust the instrument to perform as expected? Will I ever use it to simulate drive signals for high-power output stages, containing semiconductors with three- or even four-digit price tags (summed up)?

I have to admit, Siglent as a manufacturer of test gear considerably dropped on my personal "white list" of where to go to when buying new equipment.

And by the way, the undulation issue is still there. Just select pulse mode, minimum rise/fall times and there you go. But I guess that's just a result of the anti-aliasing filter's step respopnse and the steep slope -- when selecting 2ns rise/fall times, everything looks much better.

Cheers,
Thomas
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #168 on: September 27, 2019, 12:39:51 pm »
Well, I thought I was crazy then, because I know there wasn't any undulation  when I tried.
So I tried again, and GRRRRRHH it IS THERE......
Then I tried to reproduce how I got it to be clean, an got it...

In phase dependent mode there IS undulation.
In phase independent mode THERE IS NOT...  :-//

Also I managed to reproduce that effect on that 18Khz pulse after restart ONCE. Then 10 times it worked nicely...  :-//

Yep, it's a bit hit and miss......


EDIT:

Investigated a bit more.

By using slow repetition, for instance 1 kHz on a 3,3ns pulse with 1 ns edges, there IS undulation regardless of channel phase coupling.
So undulation is dependent of fastest edges and varies with repetition frequency...
I don't like that.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 12:52:42 pm by 2N3055 »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #169 on: September 27, 2019, 02:44:28 pm »
Tinkered again a little to understand how to reproduce the weirdness and guess what: I can repeat the fault every time (so far).

The SDG6000 is configured in phase mode independent, power up configuration - last. I select CH1 pulse waveform, 18kHz, 16µs PW, leading/trailing edge 1µs, maximum amplitude (don't know if that's relavant). Output impedance doesn't seem to matter. After configuration, the waveform is usually okay. The I simply power the instrument down and up again after maybe 30 seconds. When it's fully booted, I enable output 1, and voila!  :'(  Looks to me like an incomplete power-up initialization. Toggling modulation on-off restores the correct waveform. Anybody needs an almost better-than-new SDG6000?  >:D

 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #170 on: September 27, 2019, 06:23:13 pm »
Tinkered again a little to understand how to reproduce the weirdness and guess what: I can repeat the fault every time (so far).

The SDG6000 is configured in phase mode independent, power up configuration - last. I select CH1 pulse waveform, 18kHz, 16µs PW, leading/trailing edge 1µs, maximum amplitude (don't know if that's relavant). Output impedance doesn't seem to matter. After configuration, the waveform is usually okay. The I simply power the instrument down and up again after maybe 30 seconds. When it's fully booted, I enable output 1, and voila!  :'(  Looks to me like an incomplete power-up initialization. Toggling modulation on-off restores the correct waveform. Anybody needs an almost better-than-new SDG6000?  >:D

I think I found something interesting. I'm still testing in detail.
But, just quickly, it seems that it is either not saving or not reading last state config completely.

I just played with 100MHz pulses. Then I set it the way you said again, rebooted, and it came up with my previous 100 MHz pulse. Like it didn't save it right or didn't  read it all..
I will try to test in more detail..

Steps to reproduce:

pulse, 100MHz repetiton, 1 ns rise/fall, 3,3 ns width. Phase independent.  Then set your 16 kHz pulse and reboot. All data entered by keyboard. Tried changing frequency with encoder, all the same.
What you get after reboot?

If I set AWG to boot to user config file, save state to that config file it will boot right.
So only LAST function doesn't work properly...
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #171 on: September 27, 2019, 07:13:53 pm »
Anybody needs an almost better-than-new SDG6000?  >:D

Do you accept a DP811 in exchange?    ;D
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #172 on: September 27, 2019, 07:16:00 pm »
Anybody needs an almost better-than-new SDG6000?  >:D

Do you accept a DP811 in exchange?    ;D

Sorry, got one already -- also almost better-than-new condition...  8)
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #173 on: September 27, 2019, 07:21:08 pm »
Sorry, got one already -- also almost better-than-new condition...  8)

I know ;) but 2 are better than 1 !  ;D
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #174 on: September 27, 2019, 08:45:00 pm »
Firmware update for SDG6000X models.

Version 6.01.01.35R5B1
25.6 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG6000X_6.01.01.35R5B1_EN.zip

Release notes
1. Changed the upper limit of carrier frequency (sine) in Burst mode from 300 MHz to 500 MHz
2. Added some missing SCPI commands
3. Fixed several bugs:
a) Messed up signal after switching from 500 MHz sine to square in independent mode
b) Glitches when outputting pulses under certain circumstances in independent mode
It seems 6.01.01.35R5B1 is some beta version as some things are fixed but some are broken.  :(

A customer had some problems with IQ usage and SCPI commands that the factory are now aware of and are addressing.
So for now unless you need something from 35R5B1 best advice is to stay with 6.01.01.33R2.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #175 on: September 27, 2019, 09:16:35 pm »
It seems 6.01.01.35R5B1 is some beta version as some things are fixed but some are broken.  :(

tautech, don't call it beta just because of the bugs... If it is beta it should have followed the beta members path only.

I think it's an official version that should have been more thoroughly tested, according to previous members! Although I admit it's very difficult to emulate all the tests that the experts here submit their equipments to!  :box:

Let's hope that Siglent is able to correct them in a timely manner.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #176 on: September 27, 2019, 09:38:54 pm »
It seems 6.01.01.35R5B1 is some beta version as some things are fixed but some are broken.  :(

tautech, don't call it beta just because of the bugs... If it is beta it should have followed the beta members path only.

I think it's an official version that should have been more thoroughly tested, according to previous members!
Yes and no, Siglent is getting lazy not renaming their FW file to drop the B, we have seen this before and it sometimes means the firmware is unfinished.
One time I got emails from DSO beta testers proclaiming surprise that some FW had been uploaded to the websites yet it was still in development. Normally a more secure method is used to share beta FW.

Quote
Let's hope that Siglent is able to correct them in a timely manner.
I have 3 factory confirmed SDG6kX issues in my inbox.

One of which is a new SCPI command to load a users IQ creation: :IQ:WAVE:USER "UserIQ_1.arb"  (for 6.01.01.35R5B1)
This should appear in the next Programming guide revision.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #177 on: October 13, 2019, 09:25:21 am »
So, Siglent China has the FW for SDG6000X-E model:

http://www.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG6000X-E__6.01.01.33R2_CN.zip

It's Product ID: 10900

It's older brother is 10800.

The .ADS package also flashes a BOOT.bin...
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #178 on: October 28, 2019, 08:14:21 am »
Fun fact:
Rigol just released new siggen DG2000. It is sort of replacement for DG1000Z series.

One thing they are very proud of is change of frequency without glitches.....

QUOTE :

"
When performing related tests such as switching power supply and inverter, it is necessary to use a function/arbitrary waveform generator to generate two frequency and phase coupled signals. The traditional DDS signal generator is prone to overshoot and signal interruption when the frequency changes. The DG2000 series signal generator update algorithm ensures no interruption during frequency switching and no overshoot, which can better ensure the safety and stability of the test.
"

So it can be done.... :box:
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #179 on: October 28, 2019, 10:00:18 am »
So it can be done.... :box:

What I don't understand is why are they so proud of it and don't implement the "update algorithm" in the others!!
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #180 on: October 28, 2019, 11:02:05 am »
So it can be done.... :box:

What I don't understand is why are they so proud of it and don't implement the "update algorithm" in the others!!

Same here.. Probably needs rewrite of basic part of bit engine, and they don't want to do it on old platform.. Which is very shortsighted..

But if Rigol does it for all new AWG, it could be a problem for Siglent, for people buying new AWG right now.....

But  Siglent should do it for their current 1000x/2000x/6000x series... It would mean significant quality upgrade and a great brand building improvement ...  And not letting Rigol be better at this... >:D
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #181 on: October 28, 2019, 11:49:36 am »
First, Siglent should get their homework done and sort the obvious problems that still exist with the current firmware before trying to add something new. Otherwise this will end up in a complete mess -- which it doesn't appear to be far from anyway right now.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 01:38:00 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #182 on: November 23, 2019, 06:33:25 am »
I think I have a decent understanding of getting to a root password.. but does this not require an active Telnet port on the device? @tv84 I just received my SDG6000X and there seems to be no one listening at port 23 (connection refused - at least via LAN). Is this new (firmware version 35R5B1) or am I doing this wrong? I can ping the IP address fine and I can Telnet to port 5025 just fine. Even if I have root password.. how do I connect?
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #183 on: November 23, 2019, 03:46:35 pm »
Never Mind. (Pic this time WITHOUT Meta Data - Ugh)
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #184 on: December 17, 2019, 09:37:04 am »
Can you say something about level accuracy at higher levels, say +10dBm?

Are the harmonics still down 60 dBc in the range up to 60MHz then?

I consider to buy an SGD6022X  and use it as  an dual tone generator for IP3 measurement and as an rf signal generator mainly.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #185 on: December 17, 2019, 01:37:42 pm »
Just hooked the SDG6022X (+) via a 20dB attenuator to my SA. Kept the maximum mixer level below -20dBm since then I can be quite sure that the distortion of the SA is neglible (below the noise). The last time I measured absolute level accuracy of the SDG with the power meter, it was quite accurate (better than +- 0.2db), this time I didn't pull the power meter from the basement. Maximum single tone level @60MHz of the SDG is just short of +18dBm (17.9 something), in output combine mode to generate a "clean" two-tone signal (59.5MHz and 60.5MHz), the maximum level of each tone is slightly less than +12dBm (which is to be expected if a single tone can be generated at about 18dBm). Harmonics at +18dBm are closer to -50dBc than to -60dBc, at 0dBm the figures get better than -60dBc. I'm not sure if I can trust my SA's TOI measurement but the figures look approximately correct. I attached some screenshots. Hope this answers your questions  ;)

Cheers,
Thomas
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #186 on: December 18, 2019, 05:25:01 pm »
Thomas, thank you very much for your effort, very helpful.

Either the built in combiner provides not enough isolation between the two generators
or the then used single built-in amplifers IP3 is not good enough at this higher levels.

I hope not using the internal combiner but an external one (Wilkinson type) will provide
the necessary isolation.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #187 on: December 18, 2019, 10:50:41 pm »
Either the built in combiner provides not enough isolation between the two generators or the then used single built-in amplifers IP3 is not good enough at this higher levels.
There is no internal combiner. Wave Combine is done in the digital domain. Consequently, we see the inevitable intermodulation distortion of the output amplifier. This is not too bad, but certainly not nearly good enough for TOI measurements of high-level components/circuits. 

I hope not using the internal combiner but an external one (Wilkinson type) will provide the necessary isolation.
Sure it will.

I've tested this with an external resistive wideband power combiner. Together with additional 10dB attenuators for each output and another 20dB attenuator for the SA input this makes for a total of 36dB attenuation and 26dB isolation between the generator outputs. This is sufficient for the 3rd order intermodulation products to be some 89dBc at +16dBm generator level:


SDG6000X_IMD_+16dBm_ext_26dB+2x10dB

EDIT: replaced the old screenshot with one from a recent test where the SA mixer level is lower and we now actually see the intermodulation coming from the generator itself.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 11:53:55 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #188 on: December 18, 2019, 11:42:41 pm »
I also already thought about an external combiner. Unfortunately, right now I've only got a three-stage cascaded Wilkinson style combiner/splitter (made of Chinesium), designed for a frequency range of 400~2500MHz. I tried it anyway at 60MHz and to my surprise, it performed better than a straight SMA-T  :D. Yet, at 450MHz, the performance of the external combiner lacked in general, probably since the two input ports aren't isolated well enough from each other and the (negative) feedback of the SDG's output buffers almost isn't working anymore (due to phase shift and considerable drop of open-loop gain) so the output stage is turned into a really good mixer...

FYI, here are the two screenshots. At 60MHz, the SDG6022X looks promising...

Cheers,
Thomas
 
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Offline kladit

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #189 on: December 20, 2019, 11:20:55 am »
Performa01 and Thomas,

thank you very much for your efforts.

I have just ordered an SDG6022x.

Merry Christmas, 73,

Klaus
 

Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #190 on: December 20, 2019, 11:47:26 pm »
My previous screenshot came from an old test which was obviously flawed. What we saw there was the SA mixer intermodulation because of too high input level.

So I've repeated the test and will correct my previous posting.

Anyway, here's an additional scenario, with the resistive power combiner and only 6dB isolation between channels, but an additional external 30dB attenuator for the SA. Generator levels were now +16dBm, so the total external attenuation is 36dB.

It can be seen, that even just 6dB isolation is sufficient to keep intermodulation distortions below 88dBc at 60MHz.


SDG6000X_IMD_+16dBm_ext_26dB

EDIT: Measurement repeated with correct -20dBm input level.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 07:09:12 am by Performa01 »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #191 on: December 23, 2019, 07:12:30 am »
I've initially goofed up again and the SA input level was too high at -10dBm for the test in my last posting. Now corrected for -20dBm and voila, the intermodulation products have almost vanished.

This means: at least at low frequencies like 60MHz, (lack of) isolation between the outputs is not an issue and does not cause significant intermodulation distortions.
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #192 on: December 23, 2019, 10:44:49 am »
As I've demonstrated in my previous postings, intermodulation distortion of the outputs is insignificant even with only 6dB isolation between them - with the reservation that this is only valid for low frequencies like 60MHz.

Some might be interested in the output intermodualtion performance at high frequencies, so I repeated my test at 480MHz.

Once again we have just 6dB isolation coming from the resistive power combiner. An additional external 14dB attenuator provides a total of 20dB attenuation. Generator levels are 0dBm as this is about the limit for the SDG6052X at high frequencies.

895174-0
SDG6000X_IMD_480MHz_0dBm_ext_20dB

Now things look certainly different and the 3rd order intermodulation products are about 56dBc.

For meaningful results of  two-tone tests at high frequencies, good isolation between the outputs is mandatory.
 
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Offline kladit

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #193 on: December 23, 2019, 05:05:01 pm »
The SDG6022X arrived.

To sdg6022x-isolation.jpg :

The two outputs were combined by a Mini-Circuits ZFSC-2-6 Wilkinson type combiner with 6dB attenuators at each
input port and a 3dB attenuator at the output port which is connected to a SSA3021X analyzer.

The internal attenuation of the analyzer was adjusted so that a 1dB increase of attenuation gave a 3 dBm
decrease of the IM3 products and to the attenuation at the level where this stopped , the analyzer  was assumed to
be linear now and one more dB attenuation was added as safety margin.

The IM3 levels jumped between -79.3 dBM an -82 dBm by noise. (see later)
For easy calulations -80 dBm were set.

IP3 of the analyzer = 80 dBm/2 + 3 dBm = 43 dBm

The generators own IP3 is equal or below this IP3 with the isolation used.

To sdg6022x-isolation3.jpg :

The output level of the generator was decreased by 6dBm to avoid a possible saturation of the
combiners ferrite. So the analyzer no has -3dBm intput level.
The frequency was set to the lower IM3 product, the span was set to 100 Hz and the average to 20 times.

IP3 now 95.4/2 - -3 = 44.7 dBm

This seemed to be the limit of the anlayzer, but not so, the noise level came from the SDG6022X.

To sdg6022x-noise.jpg :

Nothing was changed at the analyzer but the two outputs of the generator were switched off.
Now the noise level goes down at -111 dBm and below.

So the isolation/IP3 of the generator cannot be measured because of its own noise level, that's the bad news.

And the SSA3022x is able  to measure IM3 products of clean signals well below  -100dBm, that's the good news.

So for IP3 measurement the SDG6022X  can replace an rf-generator because of its high output level even with all
the damping needed for isolation.

But the noise level is disappointing. Or I have got a noisy one?

Any similiar measurements and critics are welcome.

--
Klaus



 

Offline kladit

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #194 on: December 23, 2019, 05:07:18 pm »
A jpg was missed for some reason.
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #195 on: December 23, 2019, 06:18:48 pm »
The SDG6022X arrived.

...

Wow, that was fast! Batronix?  ;)

The apparent noise level may be related to the generator's phase noise since your two carriers are only 20kHz apart. I tested with a carrier spacing of 200kHz. If you look at my measurements a few posts above, you see how much rounded the noise "floor" between the two peaks is. If you arrange them at 10% of that spacing, the noise level will increase a lot.

I'll try to replicate your test later this evening (without the combiner -- no time yet to make one).

Cheers,
Thomas
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #196 on: December 23, 2019, 07:09:57 pm »
No, the generator is fine. Its general noise level is low and the phase noise is better than 110dBc/Hz already at 1kHz distance from carrier, see my measurements, reply #163 in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg2624667/#msg2624667

Maybe it's the phase noise of the SA. I cannot test this, since I don't have one.

But I can test the SDG6052X:

895548-0
SDG6000X_IMD_7MHz_12dBm_ext_28+2x20dB_RBW10Hz

Generator levels +12dBm, 20dB inline attenuators for each generator output, 6dB resistive wideband power combiner, followed by 22dB (step) attenuator. Resulting input level for the analyzer is -36dBm.

Noise floor is -150dBm/Hz in the middle between the two carriers, which are spaced only 20kHz apart. If I use 1Hz RBW, then the noise floor isn't visible anymore, despite the 120dB display range that I've set for these tests. The noise floor changes by less than 1dB if I switch both generator outputs off.

Intermodulation distortion is still not better than some 89dBc, so there is some distortion component with a linear relation to the input signal level. This appears to be simply the limit of my analyzer.

EDIT: some corrections/clarifications, especially on the input attenuator setup.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 11:09:12 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Offline genghisnico13

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #197 on: December 25, 2019, 04:44:00 am »
But the noise level is disappointing. Or I have got a noisy one?
edit: ignore comment, I didn't see the span in the screenshot, my bad.
I'm not an expert but I believe the problem is how you have your spectrum analyzer set up, you have more than 30dB of attenuation, lower it or disable it completely.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 08:48:18 pm by genghisnico13 »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #198 on: December 25, 2019, 10:33:39 am »
@Performa01 is correct! The relatively high noise floor is related to the SA's phase noise, not the AWG's.

I replicated the tests with the 7.03/7.05MHz pair, as a combiner using 2*10dB attenuators on the two "female legs" of an SMA T and a 20dB attenuator form the "male leg" into the SA, providing a total attenuation (due to impedance mismatch within the T) of approx. 33dB, but very little feedback into the outputs of the generator. I added the external attenuation in the "Amplitude offset" menu of the SA so displayed levels refer to the input levels of the combiner / output of the AWG. I increased the internal attenuation of the AWG up to a point where intermodulation products disappeared in the noise floor and maybe a dB or two more. The RBW that has to eb selected in order to get a low enough noise level to display the highly attenuated signals with still a sufficiently large dynamic range, requires some serious sweep times, especially if the signal should be averaged for a better accuracy.

On both my SAs I've got the measurement functions activated and used the TOI program since it directly finds the peaks, generates the levels table and calculates the TOI point. Almost forgot to mention: For this test, I synchronized the instruments (AWG and SA) to my external reference (DIY unit, based on an Efratom LPRO101 rubidium oscillator). But I think, using the internal time bases wouldn't make much difference.

On the DSA815, the phase noise is specified to be better than -80dBc/Hz @ 10kHz (I measured about -90dBc/Hz) and better than -100dBc/Hz @ 100kHz (-110dBc/Hz measured). The phase noise vs. frequency has the typical inverse exponential shape, so nothing out of the ordinary here:



The analog test with the SSA3000X provides basically the same result, yet, due to the higher distortion in the front-end, lower input levels are necessary and thus a lower RBW has to be selected to reach a similar dynamic range of the signal. @Kladit used 1Hz, I couldn't be bothered to wait so long for the sweeps and used 3Hz  ;) (with the Rigol DSA, I set up the test, went doing something else and came back after an odd hour or so...). The results are very similar, yet the noise floor appears more flat, almost inversely curved.



This gets even more obvious when viewing the signal over a higher span (changed RBW to 10Hz to speed things up, hence higher noise floor):



This is related to the funny shape of the phase noise of the SSA3000X with the valleys on both sides of the peak, and then rising about 10dB again about 50kHz off the peak (due to the superposition of the two tones here, the "dick and balls"  ;) shape of that noise curve isn't as pronounced). Yet, at the selected frequencies in this example, the two tones both float within the central valley of the noise floor.

Even a small modification to the frequencies (setting them a little bit further apart -- 50kHz, 7.00MHz and 7.05MHz this time) changes the shape of the phase noise floor to a central hill between the (now) individual valleys of the two tones:



All of this is a clear indication that the phase noise is generated in the SAs and that with this kind of equipment, it's not possible to accurately measure the phase noise of the SDG6000X since it's considerably lower than that of any of the two mentioned spectrum analyzers.

Merry Christmas to all!  :D
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 10:39:42 am by TurboTom »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #199 on: December 25, 2019, 01:56:10 pm »
Couldn't keep off it: In my "RF nonsense" box, I found a JCA01-2367 amplifier module that I salvaged from a Superconductor "Superfilter" teardown. It's specified for a frequency range of 824~849MHz but I found it to work over a much wider range (3dB bandwidth of approx. 400~950MHz when driven at -10dBm -- attention, I dialed in the TG level wrong so the vertical scale is 10dB less than shown, basically the scale - as it is now - can be interpreted as the gain of the amplifier):



I wasn't able to figure out the 1db compression point since the driving level available with the instruments I used, didn't permit to go beyond 0dBm drive level at the relevant frequencies. So at approx. +26dBm output power (almost 400mW!), I was more or less able to verify the 0.1dB compression specified in the datasheet:



So, since the 500MHz maximum output frequency of the SDG6000X lies well within the usable range of the amplifier module, I thought why not do a "real world" test of an TOI measurement. With the two 10dB attenuators before the summing joint, I could drive the amplifier at approximately -13dBm which should be good enough for a test. First job was to check the generator for its internal intermodulation (by feedback via the attenuators into its outputs):



Here, the intermodulation products are shown to be less than -75dBc (lower) and -77dBc (upper) -- note that Siglent confused the lower/upper designation in the TOI measurement table  :palm:

So then came the measurement of the amplifier which turned out quite nicely:



At a measured TOI point of ~42dBm, it pretty well matches the manufacturer's specs of 41.9dBm. Also the intermodulation products now are about 10dB above the reference measurement (at the same SA mixer level) which indicates that the measurement is valid and the intermodulation is happening in the amplifier and not the rest of the signal chain.

This shows that TOI measurements of RF gear are clearly possible with the SDG6000X and the other available instruments. Yet, an external combiner is mandatory, the AWG's internal summing function won't do the job since the TOI of the single output driver of the generator would swamp the measurement setup with its own IM products.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 01:44:29 am by TurboTom »
 
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Offline kladit

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #200 on: December 25, 2019, 03:49:18 pm »
Thomas and other

the brand new sdg6022x is dead.
It does not boot anymore, the Siglent Logo comes up, then a relay clicks, the the Siglent Logo comes up a second time
and then nothing more happens.

Any help is very welcome.
--
Klaus
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 04:23:12 pm by kladit »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #201 on: December 25, 2019, 04:24:47 pm »
Just checked the bootup sequence on mine: Initially, the splash screen (logo) gets displayed for approx. 7 seconds, then the screen goes blank for a glimpse of an eye, accompanied by a clicking noise (sounds more like it comes from the buzzer than from a relay), and the splash screen appears again. After some more time several relays are switched and finally, after 22 seconds, the instrument becomes operational.

I haven't heard of a broken SDG6000X from anyone else. Since it is new, I'ld just have the seller replace it under warranty. Maybe @tautech can give you some additional advice?
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #202 on: December 25, 2019, 05:13:00 pm »
Thomas,

I tried several key combinations in the hope of a general-reset combination, but found none.

When the instument was working I discoverd a C: somewhere at the screen. I hope Siglent
has not choosen Windows as OS, that would be a strong argument to not buying it.

The noise is ok, the analyzers dynamic range is simple not good enough to measure.
Measured with my shortwave receivers noise it is about -100dBc  down at 1 kHz,  these
values are not exact, but in the order of others measurements.

So the SDG6022X is very good as a two-tone-generator for IP3 measurements.
 

Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #203 on: December 26, 2019, 12:54:15 am »
Thomas and other

the brand new sdg6022x is dead.
It does not boot anymore, the Siglent Logo comes up, then a relay clicks, the the Siglent Logo comes up a second time
and then nothing more happens.

Any help is very welcome.
--
Klaus
This is certainly bad news, especially now at the start of the Christmas/New Year holidays, were I don't think you could get a replacement device from your distributor very quickly.

Your issue sounds like a flash file system corruption - unfortunately not totally uncommon with modern instruments.

There are recovery procedures designed into the bootloader of the Siglent SDG, so there is hope for a quick fix without the need to send the unit back.

Someone from Siglent will try to contact you to guide you through the steps of that recovery procedure.
 
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Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #204 on: December 26, 2019, 09:29:05 am »
Thomas and other

the brand new sdg6022x is dead.
It does not boot anymore, the Siglent Logo comes up, then a relay clicks, the the Siglent Logo comes up a second time
and then nothing more happens.

Any help is very welcome.
--
Klaus
Apparently you are being looked after by someone from the factory.
Please report the outcome and/or PM me if you need further assistance.
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Offline kladit

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #205 on: December 26, 2019, 11:03:39 am »
tautech

I created a fat32 file system with gparted, made it bootable and copied the files sent by Siglent onto it.
After inserting and power up of the SDG6022X I can see that there are some accesses to the stick.
But then the relay clicked and after that same as before, dead and no accesses to the stick (LED off).

I am not sure whow exactly the fat32 has to look. All one partition, a boot and a data permission or whatever.

I do not have windows and I am not famliar with windows.

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Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #206 on: December 26, 2019, 11:28:09 am »
When the instument was working I discoverd a C: somewhere at the screen. I hope Siglent
has not choosen Windows as OS, that would be a strong argument to not buying it.
With that attitude you would miss out a lot of the top-notch gear from Agilent/Keysight, LeCroy and R&S… ;)

Rest assured though that no Chinese brand uses Windows or any other software that requires license fees. All Siglent instruments are based on either Linux or some proprietary framework (for the older/simpler ones).

Measured with my shortwave receivers noise it is about -100dBc  down at 1 kHz,  these
values are not exact, but in the order of others measurements.
This proves that the phase noise and/or dynamic range of the shortwave receiver is the limit here – and that’s a good thing. After all, the signal generator should be good enough to characterize the receiver, not vice versa.

My previous phase noise test in this thread was at 100MHz and phase noise at 1kHz distance from carrier was already better than 110dBc. I did another test at 7MHz and at frequencies that low, the SDG6000X has better than 122dBc phase noise at 1kHz carrier distance.

Even at 10Hz carrier distance we get some 109dBc already.

Phase noise plot attached. In fact the SDG6000X phase noise will be even better than that, at least at carrier distances beyond 1kHz, because what we actually see here are just the limits of my analyzer.
 

Offline kladit

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #207 on: December 26, 2019, 11:43:23 am »
Perfoma01,
thanks for your response and measurements.

"Rest assured though that no Chinese brand uses Windows or any other software that requires license fees. All Siglent instruments are based on either Linux or some proprietary framework (for the older/simpler ones)."

That is good news in general.

Anyhow, with linux used, there would be no need to create a fat32 formatted usb-stick with a file named BOOT.bin  as rescue device.

An the fact that it did not work smells more similiar to windows.
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Klaus
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #208 on: December 26, 2019, 12:03:28 pm »
Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the recovery process, but still pretty sure you need no fancy partitioning scheme on the USB stick for that.

FAT32 is kind of a de-facto standard by now, just because it's simple to implement. Every OS can deal with it, so not really a hint to anything. Whenever an U-disk needs to be formatted (FAT32), Hackers in this forum regularly suggest using Linux to do that.

For the recovery procedure, the operating system is not even started yet, it's all in the bootloader. On a PC, this would be the BIOS (or UEFI on more modern devices), both have nothing to do with the operating system that is subsequently loaded. So at least for me it's no surprise that the boot files might adhere to some traditional DOS convention (that dates back to the old CP/M systems of the late seventies of the past century).
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #209 on: December 26, 2019, 08:36:56 pm »
tautech

I created a fat32 file system with gparted, made it bootable and copied the files sent by Siglent onto it.
After inserting and power up of the SDG6022X I can see that there are some accesses to the stick.
But then the relay clicked and after that same as before, dead and no accesses to the stick (LED off).

I am not sure whow exactly the fat32 has to look. All one partition, a boot and a data permission or whatever.

I do not have windows and I am not famliar with windows.

--
Klaus
In the very few units I have personally recovered I always started with a blank USB stick formatted in FAT32.
No partitions or special permissions are needed.

The latest instructions recommend use of recommend using a 8GB FAT32 Kingston USB flash drive and not 16GB. Larger or smaller drives may work but I do not know for SDG6kX recovery.
I mostly use a cheap 8GB stick.
While a USB stick with a activity light is helpful to watch file installation progress it is not necessary as if the USB stick size, file structure and recovery files are correct the recovery progress is just a minute or so.

The SGD6000X recovery package is larger than others I have seen with 10 Read Only files totalling 43MB plus a small .pdf instructions file.

Depending on when the recovery package was made it may not leave the instrument with the latest firmware and after recovery the latest firmware will need to be installed.
I have helped several owners worldwide and in nearly all cases successful recovery has been simple and straightforward.

Please report progress and/or further problems.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 08:38:45 pm by tautech »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #210 on: December 26, 2019, 09:48:17 pm »
tautech,

no success. I created partition and  fat32 filesystem onto an 8GB USB stick, set lba and bootable flags copied all files sent
to me onto it, except the instructions PDF.

Same behavior as before, accesses visible at power on, no more visible activity past the relay click.

The mounted stick looks like this at linux

dr--r--r--  2 root root      4096 Jan  1  1970 .
drwxr-xr-x 18 bin  users     4096 Dec 26 12:06 ..
-r--r--r--  1 root root   4618780 Aug 20 18:42 BOOT.bin
-r--r--r--  1 root root   2097152 Aug 20 18:42 datafs.img
-r--r--r--  1 root root     15724 Aug 20 18:42 devicetree.dtb
-r--r--r--  1 root root   1966080 Aug 20 18:42 firmdata1.img
-r--r--r--  1 root root   1966080 Aug 20 18:42 log.img
-r--r--r--  1 root root    391736 Aug 20 18:42 logo.bmp
-r--r--r--  1 root root  10465280 Aug 20 18:42 rootfs.cramfs
-r--r--r--  1 root root      3433 Aug 20 18:42 sdg6000x_udiskEnv.txt
-r--r--r--  1 root root  20185088 Aug 20 18:42 siglent.img
-r--r--r--  1 root root   3120904 Aug 20 18:42 uImage

I also tried all files and directories 0755, same behavior as before.

--
Klaus
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #211 on: December 26, 2019, 10:02:41 pm »
@ Klaus
The file list and sizes look correct with the list I have here.  :)
I dunno about these:
dr--r--r--  2 root root      4096 Jan  1  1970 .
drwxr-xr-x 18 bin  users     4096 Dec 26 12:06 ..
Others with Linux experience might help.  :-//

Comments.
NO bootable flags required. The instrument checks for USB files by default when a USB stick is installed at boot.
NO special settings are required as they may be interfering with the instrument OS to access the USB recovery files.
Also, try another USB stick if you have one.

Edit
FYI
Attached screenshot of SDG6000X USB recovery files structure on USB stick in a Windows 10 OS.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 10:57:42 pm by tautech »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #212 on: December 26, 2019, 10:32:46 pm »
We've seen frequent reports about USB-sticks not beeing recognized by the bootloader, even when they work perfectly fine after the instrument has booted and the main application is running.

I personally have never had any issues, simply because I stick with older USB sticks (no pun intended). The only time I needed U-disk access during boot time (for an OS upgrade, not recovery) I used an old NN 512MB stick and it worked like a charm first try.

You could try and ask member tv84 for advice. He's our reverse engineering star here in the forum and always been very helpful:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=92796
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #213 on: December 26, 2019, 11:23:27 pm »
:) This theme is somewhat recurring... Almost as "what is the best scope to buy just before New Year's Eve"...

Here I tried to approach it systematically but...

I think there are a number of factors than can contribute to the problems, all related with type of USB disks.

People want the equipments to boot faster so programmers do some simplifications regarding USB disk detection...

My best feeling regarding these latest problems (in Siglent and Rigol) is that: these new USB disks/controllers (due to their size) take more time to bootup (once power is applied do them) and sometimes they end up being ready only after the USB boot detection function has already ran. So, that might explain why the equipment doesnt see he disk. After the equipment is in normal operation, and since the disk is detected in the meantime, there will be no problems with disk access.

With smaller disks (or some faster controllers), the bootup of the disk might be faster and occurs before the detection phase has passed.

Have in mind also that Siglent (and mostly Rigol) sometimes do some raw sector access while booting to detect some special vendor disks... This may also contribute to the timing issues...

The format of the partitions also might contribute to the issue. Try use FAT32 (FAT16 and 12 should also work) and, if you are suspicious, do the formatting in Linux. The number of reserved sectors, etc is different between Linux and Windows (for the same disk format!). So, have in mind that the software that is running in the equipment is Linux.

I'm assuming that there are no errors in the programming...
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #214 on: December 27, 2019, 12:02:40 am »
...............
I'm assuming that there are no errors in the programming...
There isn't !

Just checked my SDG6022X with IQ hacked option and with older FW V6.01.01.29R10.
Totally unrequired Boot failure recovery with USB files as listed above on a cheap Strontium 8GB stick.

Result:
User settings of 'Last' were lost so the unit booted to factory default settings and with latest V6.01.01.35R5B1 FW and the unofficial IQ option remains active.  :phew:

Saved me needing to install the latest FW.......  :-DD
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 12:24:18 am by tautech »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #215 on: December 27, 2019, 09:39:45 am »
...............
I'm assuming that there are no errors in the programming...
There isn't !

I wasn't referring to your "recovery disk" process scripts/instructions.

The recovery disk is simply a decompressed FW package with a special setting that signals it to be processed by the bootloader and flashed without the need of anything else. I haven't looked at it but it seems to me that it can be easily done based on any FW package, as long as you've got an .ADS unpacker.

Of course, the bootloader disk detection could be even more stricter regarding boot times...

Losing the settings is a good sign, showing that the factory reset was done. Not loosing the licenses is a better sign, well done by Siglent, since it's assumed that the options wouldn't be creating a boot problem. If they did we could always unlicense them manually with commands.
 
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Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #216 on: December 27, 2019, 01:11:31 pm »
I would like to demonstrate how even the internal digital channel combine function can be quite useful for two tone tests as long as we're not dealing with (very) high level components.

This is certainly true for low frequencies like the 7040kHz example. At this frequency, it's no problem to use output levels of +13dBm, which is a quite common maximum level for RF signal generators. In this case, third order intermodulation products are at 68dBc and worst case third order intercept point is +47dBm.

See attached screenshot SDG6000X_IMD_7040kHz_d20kHz_13dBm_int_RBW10Hz and the corresponding peak table:

FrequencyAmplitudeDelta FrequencyDelta Amplitude
7.049999 MHz13.03 dBm0.000000 Hz0.00 dB
7.029998 MHz13.02 dBm-20.001200 kHz-0.01 dB
7.069996 MHz-55.22 dBm19.997491 kHz-68.25 dB
7.009996 MHz-55.35 dBm-40.002399 kHz-68.38 dB

Let's check the situation at a lower output level of -5dBm, which will be used for a practical test later. Third order intermodulation products are now even lower at 78dBc and worst case third order intercept point is +34dBm.

See attached screenshot SDG6000X_IMD_7040kHz_d20kHz_-5dBm_int_RBW10Hz and the corresponding peak table:

FrequencyAmplitudeDelta FrequencyDelta Amplitude
7.049999 MHz-4.97 dBm0.000000 Hz0.00 dB
7.029998 MHz-4.98 dBm-20.001200 kHz-0.01 dB
7.069998 MHz-82.88 dBm19.999345 kHz-77.91 dB
7.009998 MHz-83.64 dBm-40.000545 kHz-78.67 dB

Finally the most critical situation at the upper end of the SDG6052X freqeuncy range, 480MHz have been used for this test. Maximum output level with internal combiner is 6dB lower than without, so we get -6dBm, which happens to suit my praxis test quite fine. Third order intermodulation products are now rather high at 37dBc and worst case third order intercept point is +12.3dBm.

See attached screenshot SDG6000X_IMD_480MHz_d20kHz_-6dBm_int_RBW10Hz and the corresponding peak table:

FrequencyAmplitudeDelta FrequencyDelta Amplitude
480.009893 MHz-6.03 dBm0.000000 Hz0.00 dB
479.989892 MHz-6.03 dBm-20.001200 kHz-0.01 dB
479.969893 MHz-42.80 dBm-40.000545 kHz-36.77 dB
480.029892 MHz-44.33 dBm19.999345 kHz-38.30 dB

Now for the practical test with a Marconi Instruments TF2175 linear amplifier. Here are the relevant specifications:
Bandwidth: 2 ~ 500 MHz +/-1 dB
Maximum linear power: >300 mW (24.8 dBm)
Input for 300 mW output: 0.6 mW (-2.2 dBm)
Gain: 27 dB +/-1 dB
Harmonic Distortion: <30 dBc at 200 mW
3rd Order Intermodulation Intercept Point: +35 dBm typical
Noise Figure: <9.5 dB (8 dB typical)
Dynamic Range: >80 dB

We are interested in the 3rd order intermodulation intercept point. As long as this is lower than the TOI of our two-tone signal source at the required output level, we can get meaningful test results when measuring the TOI of the amplifier.

There's one trap: the specified TOI is for the amplifier output, but it's the input TOI that matter for our test. For the Marconi TF2175, this is Output TOI - Gain = 35dBm - 27dB = +8dBm. This means that the SDG6000X with internal channel combine function should be perfectly usable for measuring the TOI of the TF2175 amplifier over its full frequency range.

First test at 7040kHz.

Generator level is -5dBm, TF2175 output level is +21.6dBm. Third order intermodulation products are at 26.5dBc and worst case third order intercept point is +34.86dBm, which matches the specification quite nicely.

See attached screenshot SDG6000X_IMD_7040kHz_d20kHz_-5dBm_int_RBW10Hz_TF2175 and the corresponding peak table:

FrequencyAmplitudeDelta FrequencyDelta Amplitude
7.049999 MHz21.59 dBm0.000000 Hz0.00 dB
7.029998 MHz21.58 dBm-20.001200 kHzkHz,-0.01 dB
7.069998 MHz-4.98 dBm19.999345 kHz-26.56 dB
7.009998 MHz-5.07 dBm-40.000545 kHz-26.65 dB

Finally the test at 480MHz.

Generator level is -6dBm, TF2175 output level is +20.75dBm. Third order intermodulation products are at 28.5dBc and worst case third order intercept point is +34.99dBm, which once again almost perfectly matches the specification.

See attached screenshot SDG6000X_IMD_480MHz_d20kHz_-6dBm_int_RBW10Hz_TF2175 and the corresponding peak table:

FrequencyAmplitudeDelta FrequencyDelta Amplitude
480.009891 MHz20.75 dBm0.000000 Hz0.00 dB
479.989892 MHz20.73 dBm-19.999345 kHz-0.02 dB
479.969893 MHz-7.79 dBm-39.998690 kHz-28.54 dB
480.029892 MHz-8.64 dBm20.001200 kHz-29.39 dB

 
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Offline kladit

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #217 on: December 28, 2019, 11:00:43 am »
Guys,

I tried with two different USB-sticks, none worked, every time same behavior.

So I sent it back to Batronix yesterday.

Very friendly service there, within a minute I've got a return label.

! And they were manned even during Christmas holidays !

Rare in Germany.

Hope they will get it fixed fast. And I am very very curious if they will be able to detect the source of this bug.

Meanwhile I ordered three different 8 GB USB-sticks in the hope next time ( and I am shure
there will be a next time) I can fix the boot failure myself.

Special thanks to Martin Wu from Siglent  for his fast response and help.

Happy New Year to all of you.

--
Klaus
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 06:32:56 pm by kladit »
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #218 on: December 28, 2019, 11:59:46 pm »
Quote from: kladit
no success. I created partition and  fat32 filesystem onto an 8GB USB stick,

Guys,

I tried with two different USB-sticks, none worked, every time same behavior.


Klaus




And they was in native dos FAT32 formatted and in ONE partition and every needed file in root? It have been  long time I have made any recovery for Siglent any machine (so this is perhaps obsolete but...)   but this bit older time it was told that USB stick MUST be in single native partition, real dos FAT32 (not any exfat etc) (even when this machine use Linux (when normal boot))  and if Siglent tell  size of USB recovery media it also need take seriously. And all know also that original FAT32 8Gb default cluster size is 4k and nothing else.
https://support.microsoft.com/sq-al/help/140365/default-cluster-size-for-ntfs-fat-and-exfat

« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 12:18:25 am by rf-loop »
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Offline kladit

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #219 on: January 07, 2020, 03:10:36 pm »
The SDG6022X is back.

Batronix's service is fast and friendly, they simply sent me a new one to shorten my waiting time.
Thank you very much.

Performa01
I can confirm your measurements, see the attached results of my measurement.


Both channels output set to +13dBm, internal combined to the output of CH2.

Analyzer SSA3021X, 20 dB external attenuator used.

IP3 = 13 dBm - (-54dBm/2) = +40dBm

That is not bad I think.

Mistake, mistake ..

IP3 = 13 dBm + (13dBm -  -54 dBm)/2  = 46.5 dBm

That is still not bad, may be even 6.5 dBm better. :-)

Others had to build up more complicated setups, quartz-oscillators, low-pass-filters, amplifiers, combiners,
to get the same results.

--
Again a Happy New Year to all reading this.

Klaus
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 06:27:34 am by kladit »
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #220 on: January 07, 2020, 03:33:07 pm »
Happy New Year and I'm glad that you received the replacement for your defective AWG.

I agree that in the lower frequency range, TOI measurements are possible with the internal waveform combination, but still better results are possible when using an external combiner. It's more a question of "how good is good enough" for the individual user  ;).

Have you enabled the measurement functions in your SA? If so, you could use the automatic TOI measurement which makes the whole process a little more comfortable. You've only got to be aware that Siglent confused upper and lower signal / IM band... But this shouldn't make a difference for the measurement itself.

Cheers,
Thomas
 
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Offline harrywgaul

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #221 on: January 20, 2020, 12:41:23 am »
I discovered a potential anomaly with the SDG6022X that shows up on the SDG6022X but not on the SDG2122X.  I control these generators with LabView.  If I set up an arbitrary waveform on Channel 1 with a repetition frequency of 1000 Hz and a CW signal at 120 MHz on Channel 2, then I need to set the Phase Mode to Independent.  Otherwise, the CW signal is not at 120MHz but is actually closer to 122 MHz.  This is true for other CW frequencies, but some frequencies are worse than others.

Most of my LabView programs use the SDG2122X and I haven't seen this kind of issue before.  It seems like the SDG2122X simply ignores the Phase-Locked setting if the two channels are at different frequencies, whereas the SDG6022X tries to phase lock the two channels by altering the frequencies.  Note that the default setting for mode upon power up is Phase-Locked.

I am wondering if anyone else has found issues by leaving the SDG in Phase-Locked mode even when they don't need the two channels locked in phase?
 

Offline boeserbaer

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #222 on: March 09, 2020, 12:14:10 pm »

HI, I just want to second how good Batronix has been.  I moved to Germany 5 years ago from the US, and Batronix has supplied me with several instrument (the latest was a R&S RTA4004) and they have always been prompt and helpful.  They have also been willing to communicate in English, since my technical German is a bit poor.

--mike

The SDG6022X is back.

Batronix's service is fast and friendly, they simply sent me a new one to shorten my waiting time.
Thank you very much.

Performa01
I can confirm your measurements, see the attached results of my measurement.


Both channels output set to +13dBm, internal combined to the output of CH2.

Analyzer SSA3021X, 20 dB external attenuator used.

IP3 = 13 dBm - (-54dBm/2) = +40dBm

That is not bad I think.

Mistake, mistake ..

IP3 = 13 dBm + (13dBm -  -54 dBm)/2  = 46.5 dBm

That is still not bad, may be even 6.5 dBm better. :-)

Others had to build up more complicated setups, quartz-oscillators, low-pass-filters, amplifiers, combiners,
to get the same results.

--
Again a Happy New Year to all reading this.

Klaus
 

Offline DL4RAJ

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Bug Report: Siglent SDG6000X; noise level is not stored
« Reply #223 on: March 10, 2020, 03:10:02 pm »
Hi all,

I just want to inform all owners that the SDG6000X has a bug,at least in the most recent firmware version.
It is unable store the level settings for noise,neither in its built-in memory nor in an usb stick.
For verification store any noise setting with an arbitrary level within the possible range.
Then recall it and change the level to another value without storing this changed new value.
Recall the stored setting again and you will see that the level has changed to the new value
despite it had not been stored.
If you have created and stored e.g. three different noise settings all three will be changed by the above procedure.
Even if you go to e.g. sine wave mode,change the level there and recall the noise setting(s)
you will notice a certain change of noise level in all stored noise settings.
Batronix was able to reproduce this bug and they will report it to Siglent.
Perhaps it is helpful if as many as possible owners report this bug to Siglent to speed up their debugging
so they will come up with a new firmware as soon as possible.

Greeetings
Clemens
 

Offline MikeP

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #224 on: March 19, 2020, 06:04:59 am »
 A phenomenon has been discovered - voltage changes in one channel affect the second channel. Especially noticeable at DC voltage from +/- 5-10 Volts. Accordingly, the shift of the second channel will occur in the range +/- 1 mV.
 Please confirm my find. I would be grateful if someone gives an explanation.
 Thanks.
 

Offline JohnG

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #225 on: March 19, 2020, 03:12:41 pm »
A phenomenon has been discovered - voltage changes in one channel affect the second channel. Especially noticeable at DC voltage from +/- 5-10 Volts. Accordingly, the shift of the second channel will occur in the range +/- 1 mV.
 Please confirm my find. I would be grateful if someone gives an explanation.
 Thanks.

If this is a measured shift at the output, it is not surprising at all. If a 10V shift at one output causes a 1 mV shift at another output, this is about 80 dB of isolation between outputs. For a relatively low cost general purpose instrument, this is actually quite respectable. In fact, if you are measuring it with an oscilloscope, the shift might also be in the oscilloscope front end. You can test this with a DC source instead of the second output of the signal generator.

On the other hand, if you mean the programmed level changes on the display, that's a firmware bug.

John
"Reality is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick (RIP).
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #226 on: March 28, 2020, 12:06:49 am »
Just noticed some shortcoming after a recent chat with a friend who owns an SDG2000X series generator: In harmonic mode, why doesn't the UI permit to enter the amplitude of the harmonics in Vrms? Only Vpp and dBc is available even though the fundamental can be specified in Vrms. Rigol offers Vrms entry on their generators that feature harmonic mode. It shouldn't mean a big effort for Siglent to include this feature in a future firmware update.

Having Vrms amplitude entry available for the harmonics is quite useful when testing / calibrating AC power meters. Of course, it's possible to calculate the corresponding Vpp value and set the figures via SCPI command. But being able to set up the instrument via its UI makes things a lot easier, especially if this function is only required infrequently.
 

Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #227 on: March 30, 2020, 05:10:41 pm »
Hello,

I have a new SDG6022X now.

When I look at both channel at the same time with same settings it is a phase difference between the two channels.
After I switch SDG6022X off and than switch on again the phase difference is 0.

The firmware is 6.01.01.35R5B1.
Is it possible still to patch to a SDG6052X and if yes how does it go?

Best regards
egonotto




 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #228 on: March 31, 2020, 08:56:33 am »
Hello,

I have a new SDG6022X now.

When I look at both channel at the same time with same settings it is a phase difference between the two channels.
After I switch SDG6022X off and than switch on again the phase difference is 0.
Did you set Power ON settings to Last and in Utility>P2 Phase Mode = Phase Locked ?

This should result in booting with same settings last used and both channels phase locked.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #229 on: April 01, 2020, 12:06:50 am »
Hello,

the harmonic distortion seems pretty good.
But the connection from the SDG6022X to the picoscope is rather disturbed :(.

SDG6K_4Vpp.jpg is with 4Vpp, the other pictures with 2mVpp

It seems there is a output offset also.

Best regards
egonotto


« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 12:33:24 am by egonotto »
 

Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #230 on: April 10, 2020, 12:23:29 am »
Hello,

I make with EasyWave 1.1.1.38R1 a 20MB wave and write it to the SDG6022X. The SDG6022X  does not respond as answer.
Only after power off and on it respond again.
The wave is in C:Local with 31 MB. The whole C:Local is only 82.8 MB. The wave is only 16257024 long.
If I try to read the wave back to the SDG6022X  EasyWave got a errormessage "single value or 1D array required" and the SDG6022X is dead again.

Best regards
egonotto





 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #231 on: April 10, 2020, 12:58:18 am »
Hello,

I make with EasyWave 1.1.1.38R1 a 20MB wave and write it to the SDG6022X. The SDG6022X  does not respond as answer.
Only after power off and on it respond again.
The wave is in C:Local with 31 MB. The whole C:Local is only 82.8 MB. The wave is only 16257024 long.
If I try to read the wave back to the SDG6022X  EasyWave got a errormessage "single value or 1D array required" and the SDG6022X is dead again.

Best regards
egonotto
Have you tried the new EasyWaveX ?
https://int.siglent.com/download/softwares/?ProId=16
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Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #232 on: April 10, 2020, 02:53:15 am »
Hello tautech,

thanks for your answer.

If I write a 20000000 long file with the new EasyWaveX the SDG6022X freeze.

Than I try to read a wave I got EasyWaveX1.jpg.

The longest wave I have written with the old EasyWave was 20900000.

Best regards
egonotto

 

Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #233 on: April 12, 2020, 02:12:27 am »
Hello,

I try to load a 20MB wave with LAN without success.
Than I try it with an USB-Stick. Surprise it works exact one time. The next time it freeze. Only power off and than on helps than.

Thus I cannot use two channels with large arbitrary waves :(

Please can someone try whether this is an error only in my SDG6022X.

Best regards
egonotto

 
 

Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #234 on: April 16, 2020, 03:03:10 am »
Hello,

one can recall an arbitrary waveform from a USB-Stick. But the arbitrary waveform is then copy in the very small (82.8MB) c:/Local.
A very bad idea.

Please please SIGLENT rework this. Make arbitrary waveform working as is guaranteed in your Datasheet.

Best regards
egonotto
 

Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #235 on: May 10, 2020, 10:24:32 pm »
Hello,

in the german Funkamateur 5 2020 is a report "Nutzung des Siglent SDG6022X als HF-Signalgenerator"

https://www.funkamateur.de/aktuelle-ausgabe.html

There is a PDF-File you can download with supplement info.

Best regards
egonotto
 
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Offline harrywgaul

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #236 on: May 11, 2020, 09:55:02 pm »
I am trying to use the command MODE PHASE-LOCKED but the SDG6022X does not seem to recognize the command.  I am able to execute MODE INDEPENDENT which will cause the SDG6022X to change from the default value of phase-locked to independent.  But I can't programmatically change it to phase-locked.

I have tried various misspellings of PHASE-LOCKED including PHASE LOCKED, LOCKED, LOCK, PHASE-LOCK, etc but nothing seems to work.

If I manually place the SDG6022X into phase locked and then do a read with the command MODE?, it shows MODE PHASE-LOCKED.  So I think I'm using the correct syntax.

I am using LabVIEW to send these commands.  Does anyone have any advice or is this a bug with the firmware?
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #237 on: May 11, 2020, 10:19:15 pm »
It's:

"MODE PHASE-LOCKED"
"MODE INDEPENDENT"

Code: [Select]
signed int __fastcall sub_D78D8(int a1)
{
  int v2; // [sp+4h] [bp-10h]@1
  int v3; // [sp+Ch] [bp-8h]@1

  v2 = a1;
  v3 = sub_B538C();
  if ( v3 == 1 )
  {
    sub_2AD234(v2, "MODE PHASE-LOCKED");
  }
  else if ( !v3 )
  {
    sub_2AD234(v2, "MODE INDEPENDENT");
  }
  return 1;
}

Maybe you have to specify a type of PHASE..  :-//

Try:

EQPHASE
HARMPHASE
PHASE
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 10:29:21 pm by tv84 »
 
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Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #238 on: May 12, 2020, 05:08:21 am »
Hello,

sadly MODE PHASE-LOCKED does not work.

But you can make:

MODE INDEPENDENT 

and than push the right button virtual

VKEY VALUE,28,STATE,1


This work for me. But it gives an error -108,"Parameter not allowed"

Best regards
egonotto


« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 05:21:14 am by egonotto »
 

Offline harrywgaul

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #239 on: May 19, 2020, 07:58:21 pm »
Thanks for the help.  I did verify that the PHASE-LOCKED problem occurs with the SDG2000 series as well as the SDG6000 series.  I contacted SIGLENT and they also verified the problem and said they will have Engineering look at it.  I was able to write some code using the VKEY commands as a work-around to get the generator to switch into PHASE-LOCKED from INDEPENDENT mode.  But the VKEY commands operate rather slowly.  Hopefully SIGLENT can figure out the problem and issue a firmware update.
 

Offline luudee

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #240 on: August 05, 2020, 08:44:27 am »
Hello !

Today I received my SDG6022X. Of course the first thing I want to do is to liberate it to enable all features and 500MHz.
My unit came with FW 6.01.01.35R5B1.

Reading through the threads, I downgraded to 6.01.01.29R10 and got the telnet ads. I can now telnet in to the unit as root.

And this is where my success has stopped. I did read through the SSA forum (upgraded my SSA previously).

I am at lost what my next steps should be. Any pointers highly appreciated!

Many Thanks!

luudee
 

Offline luudee

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #241 on: August 05, 2020, 10:11:04 am »

After more digging I found these instructions by ShaneEEV:
      1) Insert USB Stick into front panel USB socket
      2) Put SDG into System / Info / Upgrade
      3) Select telnet file for SDG2042X and UPDATE
      4) LEAVE POWER ON SDG
      5) On remote computer console, type: telnet <SDG IP address> <SPACE> 10101 <RETURN>
      6) On remote computer console, type: mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
      7) On remote computer console, type: cp /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml.orig
       On remote computer console, type: vi /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/NSP_system_info.xml
      9) On remote computer console, move down to the line that starts with <license> and press 'i' for INSERT and right arrow over to just after </license> and press the delete button until the line only has </system_information>
      10) On remoter computer console, press the ESC key, then type::wq <RETURN>
      11) On remote computer console, type: sync
      12) on SDG: remove USB stick
      13) on SDG: turn power OFF

Item #9 above should be:

The line you need to change looks something like this:

    <license><bandwidth_update_license>XXXXXXXXXXXX</bandwidth_update_license></license></system_information>

You should change it to look like this:

    <license><iq_support_update_license>TRUE</iq_support_update_license></license></system_information>



This does update the frequency limit to 500 Mhz, and the unit identifies as SDG5052X.
BUT, IQ modulation is still NOT enabled. How do I generate the license key for that?


Many Thanks,
luudee
 
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Offline luudee

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #242 on: August 05, 2020, 12:19:54 pm »
IQ enable SOLVED !!!

OK, I got "IQ" working as well ... (this is for SDG6000X).

Attached is a license generation script that some other kind soul here wrote. My apologies for not giving full credit, I don't remember the exact place I got it from.

Anyway, you must edit the script and enter your SDG6000X Serial Number on top (SN field).

Then run in ...

You can enter the generated code in the NSP_system_info.xml as above (replace TRUE with the generated code), or from the UI at the device.

Have Fun !

luudee
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 12:30:36 pm by luudee »
 
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Offline rdsi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #243 on: August 07, 2020, 07:30:01 pm »
I've been looking at the SDG6000x series also.

It looks like the SDG6022X could be different than either the SDG6032X and SDG6052X.  For square wave functions the SDG6022X is rated  2n sec rise/fall times whereas the other two units are rated for 1n sec.  This affects the top-end rates for pulse, square & PRBS functions.

So the question is do all 3 units share the same hardware & the 22X is only software limited. Or do the 32X & 52X have some hardware differences to achieve the 1n sec rise/fall times.

I've been thinking about this in deciding between the 22X and 32X?
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #244 on: August 07, 2020, 09:50:51 pm »
I've been looking at the SDG6000x series also.

It looks like the SDG6022X could be different than either the SDG6032X and SDG6052X.  For square wave functions the SDG6022X is rated  2n sec rise/fall times whereas the other two units are rated for 1n sec.  This affects the top-end rates for pulse, square & PRBS functions.

So the question is do all 3 units share the same hardware & the 22X is only software limited. Or do the 32X & 52X have some hardware differences to achieve the 1n sec rise/fall times.

I've been thinking about this in deciding between the 22X and 32X?

There is NO difference. BW upgrades are user side software license only, and even 200 MHz is fully calibrated to 500 MHz.
 

Offline rdsi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #245 on: August 15, 2020, 02:09:37 am »
There is NO difference. BW upgrades are user side software license only, and even 200 MHz is fully calibrated to 500 MHz.

Yeah baby ...
Got my SDG6022X & liberated it!
While checking the rise/fall times I realized that for square wave all 3 model share the same typ 2ns.
The best I could measure on my old HP scope was about 1.8ns -can't complain!
The 1ns spec is for pulse on the 32X & 52X model.
On my liberated unit it is now in the 1ns ball park.

Thanks 2N3055  :-+

 
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Offline sdouble

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #246 on: September 28, 2020, 04:02:21 am »
Hi folks,
I'm clearly no expert.
would it be possible to get a step by step procedure to unlock this device ?
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #247 on: October 01, 2020, 11:49:36 am »
Looking at something today, i found out this. I don't know if it is known thing..
If you enable sweep on square wave, output filter gets confused and on sweep output gets much faster risetime and it rings. Same with modulation.
It is probably connected with general output filter problems mentioned earlier.
I'm running 6.01.01.35R5B1, it's been a year now, it's still holding beta (B1) in the name...

Does anybody know if there is a firmware in pipeline to be released soon?
There are still issues unresolved in this one (saving settings after reboot, filters switching off sometimes on certain operations ..)
It has been reported long time ago..

Regards,

Siniša
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 11:51:35 am by 2N3055 »
 
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Offline rdsi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #248 on: October 06, 2020, 01:14:36 am »
I'm clearly no expert.
would it be possible to get a step by step procedure to unlock this device ?

Attached are my notes I made of the process.

 
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Offline sdouble

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #249 on: October 10, 2020, 10:46:07 am »
thanks a lot. this really helps !
 

Offline Hexley

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #250 on: October 10, 2020, 05:24:59 pm »
Looking at something today, i found out this. I don't know if it is known thing..
If you enable sweep on square wave, output filter gets confused and on sweep output gets much faster risetime and it rings. Same with modulation.

This behavior is seen across the product family. See, for example, this report for the SDG1032X: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg3207954/#msg3207954

Probably baked into the hardware architecture; I doubt that it would be affected by firmware. Fortunately, it is more of a cosmetic issue than anything else.
 
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #251 on: October 10, 2020, 07:49:05 pm »
Looking at something today, i found out this. I don't know if it is known thing..
If you enable sweep on square wave, output filter gets confused and on sweep output gets much faster risetime and it rings. Same with modulation.

This behavior is seen across the product family. See, for example, this report for the SDG1032X: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg3207954/#msg3207954

Probably baked into the hardware architecture; I doubt that it would be affected by firmware. Fortunately, it is more of a cosmetic issue than anything else.
Thank you for info. But you are mistaken, it is more than cosmetic. In that state, AWG starts generating significant harmonic content up to 600MHz region, that is definitely not welcome...

In attachment, spectrum of 20 MHz square wave, without mod (red trace), and blue trace with 0% modulation (so there is no modulation whatsoever, but filtering goes crazy..)   

That is definitely far from good quality pulse generator, and limits it's use...

BUT......

I think they can fix this. You know why? Because if you go to pulse waveform, set it to 50% duty cycle, and 2 ns edges, it DOESN'T screw up filtering when you enable PWM modulation....  Also filter doesn't behave same for all types of modulation...

So at this moment I  use Pulse waveform most of the time..... It also has edge control...


Regards,

Siniša
 

Offline Sergio66

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #252 on: October 18, 2020, 05:06:15 pm »
Hello everybody,

I got my new SDG6022X since a few weeks and I'm now using and testing the instrument, being quite happy on its general performances. Here I'm reporting some issues using arbitrary waveform: before contacting Siglent, I'd like to check if anybody else has found the same problems. (By the way, my instrument has the last 6.01.01.35R5B1 firmware release).

First of all, since I need to generate a digital pattern to emulate a sequence of CAN frames, I'm defining an arbitrary waveform as a sequence of +1 and -1 (or 1 and 0, that's the same): for sure it is not the way the arbitrary waveform generator was supposed to be used, but ... (since I have not a pattern generator) why not?

Let's discuss the behavior in TrueArb mode first and then in DDS mode.

- TrueArb mode

The behavior is really perfect: the pattern is generated exactly as defined, using 0-order hold interpolation (also linear and three different sinc interpolations are available), for all the pattern length (that menas number of points) I used (up to 512k points). There are only a couple of limitations in TrueArb mode:
A) the sampling rate is limited to 300Msample/s (that is not really a limitation, but a specification; just to mention that in DDS the sampling rate is up to 1.2Gsample/s)
B) the waveform cannot be bursted nor sweeped. That's a big limitation for my purpose (to send burst of frames). Is it really not possible to burst a waveform generated in TrueArb mode? Are there intrinsic hardware limitations to do that or it would be possible in a new firmware release?

- DDS mode

In this mode I found several issues and I think a new firmware release to fix them would be needed. Here following the main problems.
1) interpolation mode cannot be selected: it is fixed to linear. I think it should be not an issue to provide also the 0-order hold, at least, so an upgrade in a new firmware would be really appreciated.
2) the number of points managed in DDS mode is 32k maximum (that means 32768 points). This could be not a huge limitation, but it should be clearly specified, in order to let the user understand which waveform the instrument will output. So, if a greater number of points is provided (in a .csv file, for example), these points will be down-sampled to 32k, while providing a lower number of samples, the waveform will be linearly interpolated to create a 32k-points waveform. I suppose this 32k is a hardware limit (the extent of the fast memory used to generate the DDS waveform) and we can accept this (provided this is clearly specified).
3) the interpolation applied by the instrument is really poor, or better, is affected by a bug.
Here attached you can see the behavior with a 1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,... sequence with a 2k (2048) total points.
* TEST_DDS_2k.zip (0.19 kB - downloaded 93 times.)

As you can see, 15 steps are added to a single point (from 1 point to 16 points, to fill the 32k memory), but the linear interpolation is performed as the steps would be 18 instead of 16, so, skipping the last two steps of interpolation.

In a similar way, providing a 4k sequence I got this behavior:
* TEST_DDS_4k.zip (0.21 kB - downloaded 87 times.)

In this case, a couple of points is "oversampled" to 16 points, with a linear interpolation with amplitudes computed as the points would be 18 (and skipping the last two steps).

As a further trial, providing a 32k sequence, the behavior is the following:
* TEST_DDS_32k.zip (0.36 kB - downloaded 92 times.)

Even if the number of points is matching the number used by the DDS generator, the bug of interpolating 16 points as they were 18, is providing this bad sequence of 16 steps (far from being the expected square waveform)

(please, note that I used a quite big period for the generated waveform and the result is not depending on that value, provided all the steps are not as short as the instrument limit).

I think this bad interpolation behavior is really poor and needs to be fixed!


Please, let me know in case you had similar or different experience with the arbitrary waveform generation on this instrument.


Best regards.

Sergio
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #253 on: October 30, 2020, 08:24:44 am »
Sergio -
yes I can confirm this behaviour with my 6000X. It appears that in DDS mode, the instrument (for whatever reason) tries to emulate a linear interpolation. In TruArb mode, there's the choice of the interpolation type (None, Linear, Sinc, Sinc27, Sinc13). If you chose linear, the signal looks similar but obviously much more clean. I assume that the 32k file is too long for a "proper" linear interpolation in DDS mode. Moreover, as you can see when comparing the outputs of the 2k and the 4k files in DDS mode, the more "information" (periods) have got to be cramped into the available sample, the more granular the interpolation gets.

What's really confusing is that once again, you get an output signal that differs completely from what's displayed on the screen.

I wonder when/if Siglent addresses the multitude of pending problems of this instrument and also if they will take care of the atrocious U/I and modernize it, making reasonable use of the touch screen. This is their top-notch AWG and reliability and dependability is a nightmare! Probably they want to sell an oscilloscope with each of the AWGs so the customers can use it to verify the generator is outputting the correct signal. They should actually include it in the box free of charge, otherwise the AWG is unusable  |O.


Edit: I just did some testing with other AWGs that I've got available and got some interesting findings: Apparently, all the generators that utilize some kind of "slope shaping", attempt to interpolate the edges of the waveform, regardless of the mode they are configured in. This means, a Rigol DG800/900 will also fail at accurate reproduction. Yet, a Rigol DG4000 series AWG will accurately generate the signal, though depending on frequency setting, it will suffer from phase jitter of one sampling clock period as it's common with "straight" DDS systems. Alltogether, maybe the sdg6000x shouldn't be attacked too hard for this shortcoming since the waveform is really somewhat special with extreme sample-to-sample difference. If it's possible to stretch the minimum pulsewidth to ten samples or the like, things will look much better. The problem may be the maximum sample length.

But I wonder why the manufacturers don't put protocol generators for common serial communication waveforms as a standard in their AWGs. Rigol does so for a standard UART protocol in their DG800/800/2000 series, but it will only generate one byte all over again. Nevertheless, a few times I found that useful already. What about CAN, I²C or SPI. Of course, if too complex arbitration is required, this dosn't make sense like in case of LAN or USB.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 08:32:48 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #254 on: October 30, 2020, 09:18:33 pm »
Sergio -
yes I can confirm this behaviour with my 6000X. It appears that in DDS mode, the instrument (for whatever reason) tries to emulate a linear interpolation. In TruArb mode, there's the choice of the interpolation type (None, Linear, Sinc, Sinc27, Sinc13). If you chose linear, the signal looks similar but obviously much more clean. I assume that the 32k file is too long for a "proper" linear interpolation in DDS mode. Moreover, as you can see when comparing the outputs of the 2k and the 4k files in DDS mode, the more "information" (periods) have got to be cramped into the available sample, the more granular the interpolation gets.

What's really confusing is that once again, you get an output signal that differs completely from what's displayed on the screen.

I wonder when/if Siglent addresses the multitude of pending problems of this instrument and also if they will take care of the atrocious U/I and modernize it, making reasonable use of the touch screen. This is their top-notch AWG and reliability and dependability is a nightmare! Probably they want to sell an oscilloscope with each of the AWGs so the customers can use it to verify the generator is outputting the correct signal. They should actually include it in the box free of charge, otherwise the AWG is unusable  |O.


Edit: I just did some testing with other AWGs that I've got available and got some interesting findings: Apparently, all the generators that utilize some kind of "slope shaping", attempt to interpolate the edges of the waveform, regardless of the mode they are configured in. This means, a Rigol DG800/900 will also fail at accurate reproduction. Yet, a Rigol DG4000 series AWG will accurately generate the signal, though depending on frequency setting, it will suffer from phase jitter of one sampling clock period as it's common with "straight" DDS systems. Alltogether, maybe the sdg6000x shouldn't be attacked too hard for this shortcoming since the waveform is really somewhat special with extreme sample-to-sample difference. If it's possible to stretch the minimum pulsewidth to ten samples or the like, things will look much better. The problem may be the maximum sample length.

But I wonder why the manufacturers don't put protocol generators for common serial communication waveforms as a standard in their AWGs. Rigol does so for a standard UART protocol in their DG800/800/2000 series, but it will only generate one byte all over again. Nevertheless, a few times I found that useful already. What about CAN, I²C or SPI. Of course, if too complex arbitration is required, this dosn't make sense like in case of LAN or USB.

Thanks for info..

As for protocol generators, I got Digital Discovery. That one can serve as pattern generator and can generate some serial protocols...
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #255 on: October 31, 2020, 05:06:41 pm »
@TurboTom

I have been wondering if it’s possible to use a device such as the SDG6000X series to generate a DVB-T modulated stream?

I don’t mean just to provide the IQ information to an external ‘box’ to generate the DVB-T signal stream but in fact the complete encoded data stream – like a DVB-T ‘test pattern’ signal.

Perhaps an external input of a digital encoded data stream could be used to provide a non-static DVB-T baseband signal ready for transmission to a DVB-T receiver?

Sorry I have never evaluated a device such as the  SDG6000X series and although it looks like a very capable – I’m not sure if it has some mileage for DTV experimentation other than some basic modulation testing by mixing some ‘synthetic noise’ signals with an external DVB-T modulated carrier?

Something I used in the past for generating DVB test signals has been with an SDR such as the ADLM Pluto using express DVB software – it works quite well – but it’s the work of a very clever guy who has generated this software for those interested in Amateur Radio DVB transmissions.

Having the flexibility of a test equipment generator to do similar would be great if indeed such functionality can be provided by devices such as the  SDG6000X series AWG's

My gut feeling is that’s not something that AWG’s were designed for – which leaves the door open for specialist DVB test equipment – which is a lucrative market in itself.

I guess I  answered my own question – but just asking anyway … just in case there is some mileage in using AWG’s for DVB work?

Cheers
 

Offline Sergio66

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #256 on: November 01, 2020, 05:32:57 pm »
Sergio -
yes I can confirm this behaviour with my 6000X. It appears that in DDS mode, the instrument (for whatever reason) tries to emulate a linear interpolation. In TruArb mode, there's the choice of the interpolation type (None, Linear, Sinc, Sinc27, Sinc13). If you chose linear, the signal looks similar but obviously much more clean. I assume that the 32k file is too long for a "proper" linear interpolation in DDS mode. Moreover, as you can see when comparing the outputs of the 2k and the 4k files in DDS mode, the more "information" (periods) have got to be cramped into the available sample, the more granular the interpolation gets.

Hi TurboTom,

    thanks for confirming this behavior in your side.

In DDS mode the interpolation type seems to be fixed to Linear (while None/0-order hold cannot be selected): it's pretty clear that, being 32k the memory size used for DDS, the granularity of the interpolation will be finer if the initial number of samples is lower. What I'm anyway expecting (and I think is a reasonable request) is that this linear interpolation is correctly implemented.
Now, it's quite evident the devices uses 32k memory for the DDS implementation looking at the built-in arbitrary waveforms: they are all defined with 32768 points. So, at the very end, I'm at least expecting the device allows the user to provide exactly the 32768 points the user defines, without any distortion/bad processing from the instrument.



Edit: I just did some testing with other AWGs that I've got available and got some interesting findings: Apparently, all the generators that utilize some kind of "slope shaping", attempt to interpolate the edges of the waveform, regardless of the mode they are configured in. This means, a Rigol DG800/900 will also fail at accurate reproduction. Yet, a Rigol DG4000 series AWG will accurately generate the signal, though depending on frequency setting, it will suffer from phase jitter of one sampling clock period as it's common with "straight" DDS systems. Alltogether, maybe the sdg6000x shouldn't be attacked too hard for this shortcoming since the waveform is really somewhat special with extreme sample-to-sample difference. If it's possible to stretch the minimum pulsewidth to ten samples or the like, things will look much better. The problem may be the maximum sample length.


On this last point, I don't fully agree with you. We can argument that here I'm trying to use the instrument as a pattern generator, that is not really the intended purpose of this arbitrary waveform mode, but if the generator is able to apply a decent linear interpolation in DDS only with a number of points limited to a few tens, this is, in my opinion, equivalent to say the arbitrary waveform in DDS mode is useless.
Here I'd like to point out that my main complaint is related to the bad linear interpolation of SDG600X, that is interpolating groups of 16 samples as they were 18: this is (still in my opinion) clearly a quite trivial bug, that most probably could be very easily fixed.
One point is not fully clear to me regarding the test you did with other Rigol generators: in DDS mode, are they allowing to select between linear interpolation and no interpolation?  Based on what you reported, I suppose DG4000 series has this capability, while the others (DG800/900) have only linear interpolation. But I suppose they are applying the linear interpolation in a correct way, isn't it? (of course, here I'm not considering the behavior in terms of jitter, since this is a well known limit of the DDS approach).

Here below I summarize my complaints related to the SDG6000X Arbitrary mode, to better clarify, also for other users, which limitations I faced.

1) an arbitrary waveform in TrueArb mode cannont be sweeped nor bursted. This limitation is not declared/clarified in the AWG datasheet.
2) an arbitrary waveform in DDS mode is only Linear interpolated (not possible to have 0-order hold interpolation). This limitation is not declared/clarified in the AWG datasheet.
3) number of points managed in DDS mode is equal to 32768. In SDG6000X datasheet number of points is reported as 2 min. and 20M max, without any mention to TrueArb mode (where these limits are true) or DDS mode.
4) wrong interpolation of the waveform in DDS mode, to generate the 32768 points used by the unit. The interpolation is generating groups of 16 samples linearly interpolated as they were 18 (skipping the last two samples).

For the first three items I agree we can accept them and we should not attack too hard Siglent for that (even if adding no-interpolation in DDS mode should be not a huge request), but the forth it's really a bug that needs to be fixed.

As I said before, I think the very minimum request is the following: considering the unit is using 32768 points to generate the waveform in DDS mode, the user should have the possibility to provide these 32768 samples, without any distortion or bad processing superimposed by the instrument.


...on top of that, if they can add a protocol generator for common serial communication, this would be more than welcome! :D


Thanks for all your comments and useful evaluations!

Sergio

 
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Offline Sergio66

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #257 on: November 01, 2020, 07:19:18 pm »
Just to highlight that SDG6000X linear interpolation in DDS mode is really badly implemented: please, have a look at the waveforms I get with my SDS2104X Plus using its the internal AWG (50MHz, 125MS/s, 16ksamples) using the sequences 1,-1,1,-1,1,-1,...  with 2k (2048), 4k (4096) and 16k (16384) total points.





The internal AWG of the Siglent oscilloscope uses 16384 samples to DDS generate the waveforms, so, of course the interpolation is using a lower number of steps if compared to the ones generated by the SDG6000X, but in all cases the linear interpolation is correctly computed! In particular providing to the scope's AWG 16384 points, the generator will use exactly that provided set of points, without any "distortion" or bad processing on them.

So, the high performances, high cost SDG6000X AWG is in real case performing worse (from this point of view) than the low performances, low-cost, built-in generator of the SDS2000X Plus oscilloscope ....of course, both from Siglent!

....that's a shame!!  :palm:

Sergio
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #258 on: December 24, 2020, 01:30:53 pm »
Hello!

Question to Siglent.

Is SDG6000X considered abandoned product, or there is a plan to fix many complaints and bugs reported more than 6 months ago ?
It's been more  than a year since last firmware... SDG6000X Firmware – 6.01.01.35R5B1 (Release Date 09.18.19)
My patience is quite stretched at this point...


Regards, and Happy Holidays to all!!

Siniša

 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #259 on: December 24, 2020, 02:40:57 pm »
I already gave up asking... My '6000X is currently shelved in the basemet and collecting dust. Too annoying U/I and all the mentioned bugs make it compulsory to view the output on the scope every time something's changed, to be sure the instrument is working as it should. For low(er) frequencies, I've got enough more decent replacements, and if I need high frequencies, I'll pick an RF signal generator. Altogether, just too much pain to use. At some point in time, this hurts more than the feeling to have sunk a nice value into this generator. I drew my consequences -- you know "fool me once...".
« Last Edit: December 24, 2020, 07:48:25 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #260 on: December 25, 2020, 09:47:42 am »
Wee note from Siglent tech support today, Christmas day:

SDG6000X
We are preparing a new firmware version and it will be released at February 2021.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #261 on: December 25, 2020, 10:03:29 am »
Wee note from Siglent tech support today, Christmas day:

SDG6000X
We are preparing a new firmware version and it will be released at February 2021.
Thanks!!
 

Offline djhatton

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #262 on: December 25, 2020, 11:52:35 am »
Oh man that's disappointing. I am in the market for a sig gen. I had high hopes for the 6000x as it looks like quite decent hw. But I guess Siglent aren't there yet.

The device started shipping in 2017. In 2021, we might get a firmware that might fix some of the bugs? Really?

I don't get it. Presumably, if they produced test equipment that was actually tested, they would totally cream the market (!?). Why wouldn't they have thrown all of the programmers at the device four years ago and debugged it fully? Then they could have spent the last three years establishing their product as a serious contender.

I guess it's part of the sledgehammer approach China is so fond of. Bash it out as soon as possible. I think T&M deserves more care.


An aside - my first post! I have perused for years. Now I sign up to rant :blah: Future posts potentially more productive ;) :-/O :-DMM
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #263 on: December 25, 2020, 12:43:20 pm »
Oh man that's disappointing. I am in the market for a sig gen. I had high hopes for the 6000x as it looks like quite decent hw. But I guess Siglent aren't there yet.

The device started shipping in 2017. In 2021, we might get a firmware that might fix some of the bugs? Really?

I don't get it. Presumably, if they produced test equipment that was actually tested, they would totally cream the market (!?). Why wouldn't they have thrown all of the programmers at the device four years ago and debugged it fully? Then they could have spent the last three years establishing their product as a serious contender.

I guess it's part of the sledgehammer approach China is so fond of. Bash it out as soon as possible. I think T&M deserves more care.


An aside - my first post! I have perused for years. Now I sign up to rant :blah: Future posts potentially more productive ;) :-/O :-DMM

Well,

it's not all black, you know..
AWG with 500MHz bandwidth, clean 2ns edges (less than that rings), PRBS, I/Q modulation... Even with quirks it still has something to offer.
It is mostly that it could be so much better. 
And it should be.

I'm still patient (not very much though) because, every update so far was much improvement. Problem is they stopped with updates, presumably because of pressure releasing 3 flagship scopes, that are breakthrough new platform..

If they resume with normal bug fix and firmware release policy for SDG6000X it will soon be forgotten and forgiven...
As you said, in hardware, it seems capable platform. If they fix all remaining quirks, to make it rock solid, it will be one great AWG.

Fact is, the part of the reason that price Siglent charges for their equipment is lower than, say, Keysight, is that Siglent has smaller workforce and smaller R&D budget.
So it is part of the tradeoff...

If that is unacceptable, there are much more expensive AWGs from brand name manufacturers. Pick your poison.
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #264 on: December 25, 2020, 06:47:14 pm »
Wee note from Siglent tech support today, Christmas day:

SDG6000X
We are preparing a new firmware version and it will be released at February 2021.
Thanks!!
Yes well the community here has pushed them to get on with it as recent comments had been spotted and they felt they should get a move on.  ::)
That's not to say I didn't thank tech support also however along with that bouquet was also a brickbat to get on with SDM3055 FW we've also been promised for months !  :horse:

Some of the product mangers are excellent, some not so much.......  :(
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Offline djhatton

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #265 on: December 26, 2020, 07:40:26 am »
I appreciate that you (mostly) get what you pay for. I used a 33612 extensively at an old workplace and came to like it lots. I guess it is folly for me to hope the Siglent might compare.

But I mostly just see it as a missed opportunity. Potentially, it could have been quite competitive; the hardware is there to bring a strong fight. But the product has been out for years now and yet still feels beta. It would be one thing if it were just relatively benign UI bugs or whatever. But it seems there are a number of reported (and how many yet unreported?) problems in the core waveform generation / signal processing. I feel these absolutely fundamental aspects should have been more thoroughly tested before the thing shipped. There would be a modicum of concern every time I wanted to connect it to my DUT. Is the signal coming out as it says it is? Or will I blow up my circuit? I am reluctant to put something like that in my lab.

Instead of moving the design teams on to work on a new scope platform, I would first have had them finish the product at hand. I know, IRL, it is not that simple and it doesn't work like this :) But still, it feels like there was not enough testing done. For a test equipment manufacturer, I don't think that's good enough. Producing cheap equipment shouldn't preclude them from this, especially as it is the core of their business. The quality of their offering could be improved so dramatically, if they just spent a little bit more effort on the software and weren't so focused on continuously and aggressively rushing new hardware to market.

I feel just one 'golden' product is all it would take for them to begin changing their image. They could be producing the 'go-to' entry-level AWG, no? Word travels fast and if their generators were the killer entry, people would start to buy them en masse. Siglent could have their own HP200A-like moment?
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #266 on: December 26, 2020, 11:27:05 am »
...
Instead of moving the design teams on to work on a new scope platform, I would first have had them finish the product at hand. I know, IRL, it is not that simple and it doesn't work like this :) But still, it feels like there was not enough testing done. For a test equipment manufacturer, I don't think that's good enough.
...

And so the SNA5000X gets announced...  |O
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #267 on: February 07, 2021, 08:17:14 am »
New firmware for SDG6000X models.

Version: V6.01.01.36
25.6 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG6000X_V6.01.01.36_EN.zip

Release notes
Allowed one channel to modulate the other
Supported Burst in TrueArb mode
Supported Burst Counter in Burst mode so the number of burst trains can be set to > 1 when trigger source = external or manual
Added an option to let the SDG start with activated outputs
Added 50 ohm output impedance text in the UI
Able to remember the digit of a parameter that had been modified
Fixed several bugs:
DDS interpolation bug
Switching on/off output causes random phase deviation between channels in Track mode
Incorrect square/pulse waveform initialization in some cases
Unable to store the level settings for noise
Unable to recognize the command MODE PHASE-LOCKED
Freezing issue when being written a 20MB long file with the EasyWaveX
The setting "BANDSET" with Waveform = NOISE leads to inconsistent behavior on the Noise Bandwidth of the output signal; The real-time noise bandwidth on channel 2 is changed if an AM sine modulation is switched on channel 1
Unable to install the IQ option before 30 trials run out
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #268 on: February 07, 2021, 12:17:53 pm »
Installed.
Right of the bat, I see no "undulation" effect in what I tried so far.. Will go into detail later..
Also in a quick test, I see no phase walking between channels..
So far so good.

And for the fun: AM modulating AWG waveform on a CH1 with burst AWG waveform on CH2...   ^-^
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #269 on: February 07, 2021, 02:57:21 pm »
Installed new F/W as well - procedure was troublefree whatsoever - and directly did a few tests: It seems, Siglent took care of all  the initialization issues,  :-+ for that! Also, thanks a lot for providing a memory for the "adjusted digit location".

Yet, Siglent still missed the chance to add some improvements to the U/I that would make usage of the generator much more comfortable:

- Changing parameters incrementally is still awkward and inconsistent, i.e. enter frequency 10MHz and place the cursor for incremental adjustment of the 1MHz digit. As long as the set frequency is more than 1MHz, everything's fine. But if 1MHz is reached and the value decremented once more, the frequency changes to 0Hz and the cursor is placed on the 1Hz digit. If this happens in pulse mode, all the other timing parameters (width, slope) get reset to minimum! So if you reverse direction of the incremental input, you would adjust in 1Hz increments and not 1MHz as before. In this case, I would actually keep the leading zeros up to the digit that's suppsoed to be adjusted. Just don't jump digits! This makes using the incremental input a real PITA! And store the other timing parameters in pulse mode.

- The same situation for positioning the cursor for incremental adjustments: If you are in a low frequency range (say 1kHz) and would like to incrementally adjust the 1MHz digit, that's not possible without having to either enter a correspondingly high frequency via the keypad, or interactively by several times increasing the most significant digit until a carry to the next higher digit takes place and than changing cursor to that digit and so on. Couldn't just more leading zeros be added when changing the cursor position to the left? This and the previous issue is present in all menus that permit incremental number input. The noise WF bandwidth entry appears to be even more awkward, it's just not consistent with the other numeric input masks -- seems like different programmers working on the individual modules have used different input schemes -- time to get rid of these inconsistencies.

- Selection of (built-in) arbitraries still requires checking through way too many menus (Waveform -> Page2 -> Arb -> Arb Type -> Built-In / Stored WFM). Only then, the category and the actual waveform, or the file (stored WFM), can be selected. Why all this hassle while there would be an easy way to access the corresponding selection menu: When in arbitrary mode, depending on the last Arbitrary used, enter the "Built-In" or "Stored WFM" screen when tapping the waveform visualization on the touch screen instead of just opening the "Waveform" menu. This would be a deviation from the currently present standard, but it would improve usability a lot! To enter the "Waveform" selection screen, there's already a hard button, no need to duplicate this on the touch screen!

- Introduce a configuration switch to lock related parameters: If changing frequency for example, just limit the frequency adjustment range if the selected output amplitude wouldn't be available at the frequency dialed in. Same for frequency / pulse width / slope. Don't change other parameters to enable selecting a related pramerter that's outside the range available in that configuration. Such an "automatic adjustment" easily goes by unnoticed and may cause trouble afterwards. Some switch in the instrument options like "lock related parameters" / "adjust related parameters" would be very useful.

- In "Sine Harmonic Mode", please add Vrms and mVrms for configuring the harmonic amplitudes. I don't see a reason why this is omitted.

- I'ld still love to see configurable parameter limits to be added to the incremental control so the user can assure parameters to stay within a certain interval when using the encoder (for example: frequency within 450...460kHz or pulse width between 5...49µs). This would improve eyes-off usability considerably  :horse:  ;). I still think, many users would appreciate this.

I'll have a closer look at the previous waveform problems later, so far it seems some progress is going on, and I want to thank Siglent for that!

Edit: Undulation effect still there, select pulse; rise- and fall times 1ns and a frequency just a tad off a natural multiple of the sampling frequency (i.e. 11.9999999 MHz), and here you go. But that doesn't come unexpectedly, the reconstruction filter just hasn't been optimized for such fast slopes. As before, at slopes of 2ns or more, the effect is neglible.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 08:24:35 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #270 on: March 16, 2021, 01:20:23 pm »
thanks a lot for the latest fw tautech
just installed it, my brand new SDG6022X came with 6.01.01.35R5B1

the dial is still skipping steps, I need to turn it a bit slower then i am normally used to, for it to react correctly
I just need to learn to think slower i suppose :-)
output voltage swing at higher frequencies is not impressive (but that is clearly explained in spec sheet)
and its useable bandwidth in pulse mode or any other fancy modes over sinus, is about 10-50MHz
the 200MHz output range, is sinus only, and at very low voltage output, and even then, i see 60% less voltage at 200MHz versus 20Mhz (it is not the scope :-)
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #271 on: March 16, 2021, 01:50:02 pm »

the 200MHz output range, is sinus only, and at very low voltage output, and even then, i see 60% less voltage at 200MHz versus 20Mhz (it is not the scope :-)

Sorry but I do not understand what you mean. Can you explain this bit more detailed.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #272 on: March 16, 2021, 03:24:17 pm »
..., and even then, i see 60% less voltage at 200MHz versus 20Mhz (it is not the scope :-)

Did you use proper termination and cabling for the measurement? Actually, I see still some improvement options for this AWG, but the level accuracy definitely isn't one of them. All my tests of my SDG6000X, and actually right from the start, confirmed that it's level accuracy is superb.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 03:26:20 pm by TurboTom »
 

Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #273 on: March 16, 2021, 04:00:17 pm »
after playing with arb wave forms and back to sinus, it went into low output odd mode, power off and back on, and now it acts normal again,
I cant remember exactly what combination of experiments i did, so now i am not able to recreate it,
by the way the VOICE : say Hello :-) so there might be an odd way to jam it,

anyways at 1v out setting i get 1v on scope, short bnc cable, and 50 ohm all
SINUS:
20MHz 1V
50MHz 970mV
100MHz 890mV
150MHz 750mV
200MHz 620mV

Most of my "complaints" are due to bandwidth, and once again can be explained by understanding the fundamental limits of what 200MHz means:
like goto Squarewave 1V out, max frek is only 80MHz
and the curve dont look at bit like squarewave, clearly due to it is 200MHz bw limited, and 3nS min rise and fall time,

for the more complex waveforms to actually look correct, the max frequency must be 10-50MHz else there is not enough bandwidth headroom to deliver the higher speed content of the curveforms,
again clearly normal, since it is 200MHz limited

lets try the ramp waveform
here is max possible set frequency is locked to 5MHz
risetime is under 2nS and the curve looks like attached
This is actually really nice, but I see some odd fast ringing at the top, and it is fading up and down,
I wounder how this looks on the faster models ?
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Offline DL2XY

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #274 on: March 16, 2021, 05:43:09 pm »
This is what it looks on the SGS6052.

The ringing is due to sinc interpolation. Look at the risetime, 800ps has its fundamental frequency at 1.25GHz, this is Nyquist of the 2.5 Gsamples/s DAC!
Lower the risetime by allowing 1% symmetry and everthing looks fine.

Sine 200mV rms:
  20MHz   202.3mV  +0.10dB
  50MHz   203.3mV  +0.14dB
100MHz   202.6mV  +0.11dB
150MHZ   201.8mV  +0.08dB
200MHz   197.4mV  -0.11dB
300Mhz   189.0mV  -0.49dB
400Mhz   185.3mV  -0.66dB
500Mhz   168.5mV  -1.49dB

Measured with Cycle RMS Mean on SDS2504XPlus, 50Ohm internal termination.

Edit: The SDG reduces output level at higher frequencies due to slewrate limitation of the output power OP´s.
Look at the display [and manual ;-) ]
@150MHz:<=883mVrms, @200Mhz:<=530mVrms.


« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 06:25:30 pm by DL2XY »
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #275 on: March 16, 2021, 06:16:33 pm »
I wouldn't say the ringing (alias "undulation" if its "walking through") isn't the result of the scope's sampling engine. It's also observable with scopes of different, much higher sampling rates or even analog scopes. I re-read the previous message and realized that I might have misinterpreted it. I'm just not used to the term "Sinc Interpolation" in combination with AWGs. It's rather some kind of signal reconstruction by filtering, so to speak "reverse Sinc interpolation". The ringing is clearly related to the AWG's reconstruction filter that's optimized for  slopes of 2ns rise time, see the first screenshot (ref trace symmetry 0%, ch1 trace 1.2% symmetry to get in the 2ns rise time ballpark). This peculiarity had been discussed here in several contributions. You can blame Siglent to permit slopes that are faster than what the hardware has been designed for, but IMO that's a problem one can live with, you've just got to keep it in mind. Rarely the DUT is fast enough for this ringing to cause any trouble.

The reported level inaccuracy would make me much more nervous. I didn't find anything like this on my AWG, see the second screenshot. I blame the very tiny amplitude droop towards higher frequencies to the vertical amp characteristics of the scope I used ("pimped" Rigol DS2000A). With an HP RF power meter, I found the AWG's level accuracy to be better than 0.1dB over the whole frequency range.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 06:24:11 pm by TurboTom »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #276 on: March 16, 2021, 06:20:15 pm »
thanks once again DL2XY
YES correct, I double checked, the ringning is possible to almost remove, by change the symetry values to 1.1%
now the walking phenomenon is also almost gone
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 06:23:05 pm by oz2cpu »
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Offline DL2XY

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #277 on: March 16, 2021, 07:07:54 pm »
I wouldn't say the ringing (alias "undulation" if its "walking through") isn't the result of the scope's sampling engine. It's also observable with scopes of different, much higher sampling rates or even analog scopes. I re-read the previous message and realized that I might have misinterpreted it. I'm just not used to the term "Sinc Interpolation" in combination with AWGs. It's rather some kind of signal reconstruction by filtering, so to speak "reverse Sinc interpolation". The ringing is clearly related to the AWG's reconstruction filter that's optimized for  slopes of 2ns rise time, see the first screenshot (ref trace symmetry 0%, ch1 trace 1.2% symmetry to get in the 2ns rise time ballpark). This peculiarity had been discussed here in several contributions.

The unit calculates intermediate values from a 500MSmp/s synthesis engine to the 2.5Gsmp/s DAC rate via sync algorithm. Why won't you call it "Sync-Interpolation" ?
The reconstruction filter is hardware (low pass filter) behind the DAC, and his rolloff is about 1Ghz. It is very unlikely to cause ringing.


Quote
You can blame Siglent to permit slopes that are faster than what the hardware has been designed for, but IMO that's a problem one can live with, you've just got to keep it in mind. Rarely the DUT is fast enough for this ringing to cause any trouble.

I very like siglent to let the user go to the (nyquist) limit, you don't have to use it, but you can if necessary!

Quote
The reported level inaccuracy would make me much more nervous. I didn't find anything like this on my AWG, see the second screenshot. I blame the very tiny amplitude droop towards higher frequencies to the vertical amp characteristics of the scope I used ("pimped" Rigol DS2000A). With an HP RF power meter, I found the AWG's level accuracy to be better than 0.1dB over the whole frequency range.

I think oz2cpu may have not realized that the AWG automaticaly reduced the output level due to high frequency.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 07:10:49 pm by DL2XY »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #278 on: March 16, 2021, 07:18:17 pm »
I think oz2cpu may have not realized that the AWG automaticaly reduced the output level due to high frequency.
Yes, clearly outlined in the opening post of this thread.  ;)

Again here for those that have missed it in the datasheet:

10 Vpp 40 MHz ~ 120 MHz ( included ), HiZ load
5 Vpp 120 MHz ~ 160 MHz ( included ), HiZ load
3 Vpp 160 MHz ~ 350 MHz ( included ), HiZ load
1.28 Vpp above 350MHz, HiZ load
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #279 on: March 16, 2021, 07:32:32 pm »
I think oz2cpu may have not realized that the AWG automaticaly reduced the output level due to high frequency.
Yes, clearly outlined in the opening post of this thread.  ;)

Again here for those that have missed it in the datasheet:

10 Vpp 40 MHz ~ 120 MHz ( included ), HiZ load
5 Vpp 120 MHz ~ 160 MHz ( included ), HiZ load
3 Vpp 160 MHz ~ 350 MHz ( included ), HiZ load
1.28 Vpp above 350MHz, HiZ load

oz2cpu clearly reports that he used 1Vpp for his test, which the SDG6000X should be easily capable of supplying into a 50 Ohms load in the 200MHz range (350MHz actually).
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #280 on: March 16, 2021, 07:46:02 pm »
he he, YES this time i did read a bit more before "complaining"
I think the bw limitation is kicking in a little bit too erly for the 200MHz version,
this explain why the orher bigger versions works so much better.

I have seen others test the bw, much more often done using much less output voltage,
maybe that is a trick to get the response much more flat in %
but a more realistic senario should be to choose a voltage just a litte bit under the specified at max frequency,
that is why i picked 1v for all my tests, i hope you agree this is most usefull,

I really like the way you set the output voltages on this unit,
either low and hi points,
or a hi and offset, the normal way on all other brands i had,
so the two modes to set this gets a big thumbs up from here.

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #281 on: March 16, 2021, 08:03:21 pm »
The hardware is identical on all the SDG6000X models and you can "improve" your AWG into the top-notch version as well, just start reading this thread from round about the third page. Mine also started life as a 6022X...  ;D

When I did initial level tests some two and a half years ago, I didn't find the droop on my -then original- instrument that you're reporting now. Thus, I feel a little worried about that. You may want to check for resonance via the ground / PE lead. Also, make sure that the shield/screen contacts of your BNCs are properly spring-loaded against the sleeve of the sockets.
 
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #282 on: March 16, 2021, 08:36:40 pm »
thanks alot tom, i did try a few different BNC cables, and also the one that came with the unit (apear to be of good quality)
i could almost not detect any difference from cable to cable,
DL2XY´s suggestion to fine trim the slope, solved the ringing, and the tech explain was spot on.

about upgrading : i did search alot but did not find a solution that i could understand and perform
it is in tiny bits and a bit cryptic written, so only the expert who writes and understand it himself :-)
so i gave up for now.  EDIT it is the HOW to enter scpi commands, and how to write the whole command i need correctly,
what PC software do i need ?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 09:00:39 pm by oz2cpu »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #283 on: March 16, 2021, 09:07:22 pm »
For any Siglent AWG's the free EasyWaveX SW is a powerful tool.
https://int.siglent.com/download/softwares/?CateIdss=2

Just be sure to study the install requirements especially before attempting to connect via USB to a Windows based PC.
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #284 on: March 16, 2021, 09:11:24 pm »
thanks alot, i am done with the NI-VISA seleced yes to it all

I had the idea it was EasySDL i should and use for SCPI access ?
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #285 on: March 16, 2021, 09:18:33 pm »
thanks alot, i am done with the NI-VISA seleced yes to it all

I had the idea it was EasySDL i should and use for SCPI access ?
EasySDL is the SW package for SDL1000X electronic loads.

Look up the SDG Programming guide for SCPI access:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDG_Programming%20Guide_PG02-E04A.pdf
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #286 on: March 16, 2021, 09:27:45 pm »
PROBLEM SOLVED, YOU SIMPLY USE PUTTY to telnet via ETH,
find the IP number and input the correct port, in this case it was 5024
the unit will say hello with its type number so you know the connection is ok..
now it deliver 500MHz and 1nS risefall,
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #287 on: March 16, 2021, 09:49:59 pm »
idea for a feature:
in sinewave mode, 50 ohm load mode, offset 0, to be able to select dBm instead of voltage.
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Offline DL2XY

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #288 on: March 16, 2021, 10:04:13 pm »
too late,
it's already implemented!

Just choose Amplitude, type in the number and press the hotkey "dBm". 8)
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #289 on: March 17, 2021, 04:08:30 am »
Also there can toggle between units using "Amplitude" long press. So if user enter 0dBm and it display 0dBm then long push Amplitude and next it display 632.6mVpp and next 223.6mVrms. (note: it display it without offset even if there is offset ./  )

But about level flatness. SDG6022X is specified for ± 0.3dBm

Here sweeps using 7.50, 6.00, 3.00 and 0.00 dBm output level setting. Sweep range 2MHz - 200MHz.
Level absolute accuracy is not quaranteed here but it give quite good imagine about flatness. Also there is (quite good quality) 70cm BNC - N cable what attenuation is not corrected. With some experience it can assume flatness is least inside ± 0.15 dBm if use calibrated level meter and measure directly from SDG output port (even power total include all spurs and harmonics).

Flatness is not in "State of Art" class, not even "High End" class but it very good.

@oz2cpu some previous message is used just level as example 1v   
Example SDG6kX can handle 200MHz 1.5Vpp or 0.530Vrms @50ohm

It is good to use right values for tell level and in some cases including impedance if talk example SDG displayed level. Vpp, Vp, Vrms or dBm etc just for avoid any misinterpretation.
And when talk SDG displayed levels also load impedance setup is important if not fully self-evident, it is not same if it is set for 50, 61 or 77 or 93, or 128 ohm or what ever user have set (setup range is free between 50ohm - 100kohm or Hi-Z.  ;)


SDG6022X just as factory new out from box. Output 50ohm, set for 50ohm load, 50ohm chinese high quality coax 70cm, and 50ohm input and all these have some ± tolerances.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 04:59:46 am by rf-loop »
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #290 on: March 17, 2021, 09:16:04 am »
SUPER DL2XY ha ha YES dbm is there.. stupid me :-)

Thanks rf-loop your curves reveal that level flatness is not a compression level thing
and it is infact not a big deal, as long as you are a bit under max out level
please add to your curve / measurements
if the used unit for the experiment is stock 6022 ? or upgraded ?
since i believe it do makes a lot of difference, if you scroll back a lot of pages, you find curves of stock versus upgraded,
and the upgraded perform much better, more flat, even in the 0-200Mhz range
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 09:38:14 am by oz2cpu »
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #291 on: March 17, 2021, 10:38:02 am »
SUPER DL2XY ha ha YES dbm is there.. stupid me :-)

Thanks rf-loop your curves reveal that level flatness is not a compression level thing
and it is infact not a big deal, as long as you are a bit under max out level
please add to your curve / measurements
if the used unit for the experiment is stock 6022 ? or upgraded ?
since i believe it do makes a lot of difference, if you scroll back a lot of pages, you find curves of stock versus upgraded,
and the upgraded perform much better, more flat, even in the 0-200Mhz range

If you read this message just before image there is "SDG6022X just as factory new out from box. Output 50ohm, set for 50ohm load, 50ohm chinese high quality coax 70cm, and 50ohm input and all these have some ± tolerances."
Also in image clearly read SDG6022  if it is modified of course it is also told in image as have been practice mostly in my messages if this information is anyhow important/meaningful in context.

and sidenote: I know every single message in this thread. ;)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 10:47:47 am by rf-loop »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #292 on: March 17, 2021, 10:55:29 am »
oh sorry.. that one important line : "SDG6022X just as factory new out from box" i did not see, not your fault :-)
great to see yours perform this good, or your test method / equipment is better.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #293 on: March 17, 2021, 11:32:48 am »
With regard to amplitude accuracy and flatness, I want to remind you of this old reply #162, showing the response of my (original) SDG6052X and comparing it to an older high performance signal generator.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg2621457/#msg2621457

At the sweet spot of -30 dBm, I got a frequency response of 100 kHz - 500 MHz  +0.06 / -0.04 dB.
That's not only excellent, I'd call it even spectacular.
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #294 on: March 17, 2021, 01:57:12 pm »
With regard to amplitude accuracy and flatness, I want to remind you of this old reply #162, showing the response of my (original) SDG6052X and comparing it to an older high performance signal generator.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg2621457/#msg2621457

At the sweet spot of -30 dBm, I got a frequency response of 100 kHz - 500 MHz  +0.06 / -0.04 dB.
That's not only excellent, I'd call it even spectacular.

Yes in this individual unit it can say, it is spectacular.
Btw, usually with RF work do not need this accuracy. If we look example older HP some "State Of Art" class RF generators specifications... often decimal point can shift right. Some time ago I have in my homeland "lab" some this kind of RF gen where also was high accuracy flatness/accuracy option. And it was not as tight as you measured SDG6kX.  But example one very important thing was that it did not leak RF so it was also suitable to RF isolated "silent room".

Btw, how did you eliminate spurs and harmonics from this level measurement... (for avoid fun mess etc... of course in practice totally nonsense with these levels of harmonics and spurs, but your accuracy was amazing) /
« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 03:53:38 am by rf-loop »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #295 on: March 18, 2021, 04:18:56 am »


SDG6022X just as factory new out from box. Output 50ohm, set for 50ohm load, 50ohm chinese high quality coax 70cm, and 50ohm input and all these have some ± tolerances.


For compare. Same individual SDG mod temporarily just for this one single test and returned then back to original. Just for check change (for better compare. just same 2 - 200MHz sweep, and only two level due to lack of time. (These sweeps are s l o w !)

Quote from: oz2cpu
...if you scroll back a lot of pages, you find curves of stock versus upgraded,
and the upgraded perform much better, more flat, even in the 0-200Mhz range

I  can not see noteworthy difference in this tiny test.


« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 05:03:28 am by rf-loop »
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #296 on: March 18, 2021, 09:29:22 am »
1
if you need to stack your units close, the handles are in the way
the manual say pulll hard, but really ?? how hard ?
mine is stuck, or am i weak, or am i affraight to damage something ?

2
if you want to design your own equipment, some special stuff that just dont exist,
and you like to use a case that is as identical as possible, and also with the same front back protective plastic and so on,
is that possible to get somewhere ?
i am like very close to get the cheapest unit, and rip out the electronics just to get the case,
but it is a bit against my good feeling to do it that way, if i could only get an empty case ?
or maybe a defective unit ?
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #297 on: March 18, 2021, 09:47:01 am »
1
if you need to stack your units close, the handles are in the way
the manual say pulll hard, but really ?? how hard ?
mine is stuck, or am i weak, or am i affraight to damage something ?



They come out very easy if all is ok. Just turn 90º up. Pull axially both sides (or one side first then after it is out then other) as in image and same time when pull (not too hard for avoid this plastic teeth damage) when you pull also bit change angle ± some degree because angle tolerance is small.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #298 on: March 18, 2021, 09:50:12 am »
ok i try again tonight, i gave up last night, it was feeling wrong, like i needed way too much force
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #299 on: March 18, 2021, 10:03:38 am »
As rf-loop explained, it's important to have the handle in the right position to remove it. Put the generator flat on a table in it's "ready to use" position, rotate the handle straight up and pull at the joints gently, maybe slightly swinging the handle fore and aft, until they unlatch. It's really easy.

I'm not aware of a source for separate casings for Siglent gear. You may want to check their spare parts list and send an inquiry. But since the enclosures of all of Siglent's AWGs are identical, you may get the "bottom of the barrel" unit (SDG1032X). Maybe you can get a broken one second hand for less to salvage the casing??
« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 10:06:06 am by TurboTom »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #300 on: March 18, 2021, 12:48:36 pm »
With regard to amplitude accuracy and flatness, I want to remind you of this old reply #162, showing the response of my (original) SDG6052X and comparing it to an older high performance signal generator.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg2621457/#msg2621457

At the sweet spot of -30 dBm, I got a frequency response of 100 kHz - 500 MHz  +0.06 / -0.04 dB.
That's not only excellent, I'd call it even spectacular.

Yes in this individual unit it can say, it is spectacular.
Of course it’s just one individual sample, yet the measurement results indicate that the Siglent specs are no BS. I also expect that this particular sweet spot does not only exist on my particular unit (even though the numbers will of course not be the same), hence the info might be beneficial for other owners as well.

Btw, usually with RF work do not need this accuracy. If we look example older HP some "State Of Art" class RF generators specifications... often decimal point can shift right. Some time ago I have in my homeland "lab" some this kind of RF gen where also was high accuracy flatness/accuracy option. And it was not as tight as you measured SDG6kX.  But example one very important thing was that it did not leak RF so it was also suitable to RF isolated "silent room".
Yes, even the MG3633A has far worse specifications (+/-1 dB up to 1280 MHz) compared to the SDG6000X (+/-0.3 dB over the full frequency range), yet it performed slightly better than the SDS6000X most of the time – in the sub-range up to 500 MHz, that is. Up to its full bandwidth of 2.7 GHz, the error increases as expected and exceeds -0.45 dB at 0 dBm output. Still far better than specified.

Btw, how did you eliminate spurs and harmonics from this level measurement... (for avoid fun mess etc... of course in practice totally nonsense with these levels of harmonics and spurs, but your accuracy was amazing) /
You name it. I was amazed myself, how the SDG6052X and the venerable MG3633A both were almost spot-on even in terms of absolute level on my (some 40 years old) trusty Boonton 4210RF power meter.

Spurs do not exist in these waveform generators, because other than in traditional signal generators there are no mixing processes involved.

Look at the attached screenshot (taken some two years ago). It shows a 120 MHz signal and its harmonics up to 1 GHz. Absolutely no trace of a spurious signal there – and even though I don’t have a screenshot handy for this, I can still promise that there are no spurs above 1 GHz either.

The harmonics deserve a more serious consideration:

For output levels up to 0 dBm (as used here) and frequencies up to 200 MHz, the THD stays below 0.3 %, hence maximum possible amplitude error is < 0.03 dB.

At higher frequencies, THD increases quickly, especially above 350 MHz, where 0 dBm is about the maximum output level. Yet the possible error never exceeds 0.16 dB at 0 dBm output and it gets better at lower levels.
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #301 on: March 18, 2021, 03:32:44 pm »
With regard to amplitude accuracy and flatness, I want to remind you of this old reply #162, showing the response of my (original) SDG6052X and comparing it to an older high performance signal generator.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg2621457/#msg2621457

At the sweet spot of -30 dBm, I got a frequency response of 100 kHz - 500 MHz  +0.06 / -0.04 dB.
That's not only excellent, I'd call it even spectacular.

Yes in this individual unit it can say, it is spectacular.
Of course it’s just one individual sample, yet the measurement results indicate that the Siglent specs are no BS. I also expect that this particular sweet spot does not only exist on my particular unit (even though the numbers will of course not be the same), hence the info might be beneficial for other owners as well.

Btw, usually with RF work do not need this accuracy. If we look example older HP some "State Of Art" class RF generators specifications... often decimal point can shift right. Some time ago I have in my homeland "lab" some this kind of RF gen where also was high accuracy flatness/accuracy option. And it was not as tight as you measured SDG6kX.  But example one very important thing was that it did not leak RF so it was also suitable to RF isolated "silent room".
Yes, even the MG3633A has far worse specifications (+/-1 dB up to 1280 MHz) compared to the SDG6000X (+/-0.3 dB over the full frequency range), yet it performed slightly better than the SDS6000X most of the time – in the sub-range up to 500 MHz, that is. Up to its full bandwidth of 2.7 GHz, the error increases as expected and exceeds -0.45 dB at 0 dBm output. Still far better than specified.

Btw, how did you eliminate spurs and harmonics from this level measurement... (for avoid fun mess etc... of course in practice totally nonsense with these levels of harmonics and spurs, but your accuracy was amazing) /
You name it. I was amazed myself, how the SDG6052X and the venerable MG3633A both were almost spot-on even in terms of absolute level on my (some 40 years old) trusty Boonton 4210RF power meter.

Spurs do not exist in these waveform generators, because other than in traditional signal generators there are no mixing processes involved.

Look at the attached screenshot (taken some two years ago). It shows a 120 MHz signal and its harmonics up to 1 GHz. Absolutely no trace of a spurious signal there – and even though I don’t have a screenshot handy for this, I can still promise that there are no spurs above 1 GHz either.

The harmonics deserve a more serious consideration:

For output levels up to 0 dBm (as used here) and frequencies up to 200 MHz, the THD stays below 0.3 %, hence maximum possible amplitude error is < 0.03 dB.

At higher frequencies, THD increases quickly, especially above 350 MHz, where 0 dBm is about the maximum output level. Yet the possible error never exceeds 0.16 dB at 0 dBm output and it gets better at lower levels.

Yes, and if look my result, including cable, flatness is in same ballpark with your measurement. I believe, not know, in my used measurement some reason there is some level offset. If is or if not but flatness is well in specs and more... of course I also mesured upt to 500MHz and it keep flaness, so it do not continue dropping with this trend what can see my previous image between 150 - 200MHz... not at all... it even go back to up some amount later..

Naturally I know SDG6000X harmonics and non harmonics. ;)
It can use as 500MHz RF generator but for this use need good external step attenuator. Bit sad its highest level is around 0dBm with higher frequencies what is lot of too low for many kind of things, example testing mixers, intercept points, compression points  etc..
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Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #302 on: March 18, 2021, 05:16:13 pm »
if you want to design your own equipment, some special stuff that just dont exist,
and you like to use a case that is as identical as possible, and also with the same front back protective plastic and so on,
is that possible to get somewhere ?
If you hunt on Aliexpress a few enclosure manufacturers pop up. Just 2 minutes looking found these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Iron-enclosure/2987020_514374388.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.67121a7662pcWU
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Iron-case/3387014_512389135.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.7fc07eecmHM3Iw
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #303 on: March 18, 2021, 05:42:48 pm »
ha ha :-) not what i wanted..
i want a 99.9% look a like siglent case, and front, and protective plastics too,
so my own equipment can stand right next to, and look like it fit there.

getting the cheapest signal generator for 300$ and rip out the PCB is not that far from what I could imagine to do,
since I get the case exactly like i dream of, including front with buttons and display,
might want to hear if anyone allready reverse engineered the display interface ?
and even the buttons pcb interface ?
so it is easier to use as is, for own projects ?
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #304 on: March 20, 2021, 11:00:23 pm »
EDIT:
PROBLEM SOLVED : Thanks to TURBOTOM
got a new state file, recalled it, and now my unit live update the delay no matter what wave format,
wird side note : recalling my own previous stores state file, will NOT make the unit behave bad again
video is also updated with this info, so IF your unit behave odd, recall the settings file from TOM.

------

is there a Siglent Bug repport Feature request page for each product ?
I cant find it for SDG6022X

https://youtu.be/OXSKiE6Azmc

please tell me i do something wrong, delay between the two channels is not updating live,
anything else update live by the way.
is there a hack to have live update on delay ?

ch1 screen color is green, why is output terminal blue ?
ch2 screen color is yellow, and output terminal is correctly yellow.
is there a hack to correct the colors ?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 11:39:56 am by oz2cpu »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #305 on: March 21, 2021, 01:37:15 am »
The color issue is a simple one: util->system->page2->UI style

The pulse delay between the two channels is something i wasn't able to reproduce. I'm running F/W 6.01.01.36 on my SDG6kX and as along as the instrument is running in phase locked mode (util->page2->phase mode->locked), an entry to the individual channel parameter's "delay" field has direct effect on the output. To test this, I had all other channel couplings (util->CH copy coupling->CH coupling) set to "off". Whatever I tested, I wasn't able to reproduce the "delayed effect" of the entry that requires toggling channels off/on as you demonstrated. What firmware are you running?
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #306 on: March 21, 2021, 02:02:46 am »
The color issue is a simple one: util->system->page2->UI style

The pulse delay between the two channels is something i wasn't able to reproduce. I'm running F/W 6.01.01.36 on my SDG6kX and as along as the instrument is running in phase locked mode (util->page2->phase mode->locked), an entry to the individual channel parameter's "delay" field has direct effect on the output. To test this, I had all other channel couplings (util->CH copy coupling->CH coupling) set to "off". Whatever I tested, I wasn't able to reproduce the "delayed effect" of the entry that requires toggling channels off/on as you demonstrated. What firmware are you running?
V1.36
thanks a lot for the latest fw tautech
just installed it, my brand new SDG6022X came with 6.01.01.35R5B1
oz2cpu is still learning the capabilities of these units.  ;)
The Sys and Output menus take a little time to become familiar with.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #307 on: March 21, 2021, 10:10:29 am »
THANKS for a super forum, and your help.

>The color issue is a simple one: util->system->page2->UI style

YES that worked, ok that is funny why would you like a bright and clear green
over a weak and hard to define kind of blue that looks a little bit like nothing :-)
i am clearly turning old and color blind, ha ha..

 (util->page2->phase mode->locked)
WAS locked
tried all other ways, NO solution

 (util->CH copy coupling->CH coupling)
WAS Channel Copy
Tried Track Off, same issue
Tried Track On, then Channel 2 become a copy of ch1, and you cant change any parameters of ch2
tried all other ways, NO solution to this issue, but I learned a few other cool things
the amplityde lock together and the frequency lock, very usefull features

>oz2cpu is still learning the capabilities of these units
Absolutly :-)
still have not found a solution, my unit will only update the ch-ch delay if I hit one of the output off-on

NEWS
CH1 SQUARE WAVE, I trigger on that one, so dont change its delay,
if i change ch2 to SINE or RAMP, the CH2 delay become LIVE
if I change it back to SQUARE or PULSE, the delay change will only update on the output if i click off-on
this you must be able to recreate.. and it is now affected by any other settings
« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 10:35:24 am by oz2cpu »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #308 on: March 21, 2021, 11:14:59 am »
I've got an idea what you may try: I saved my AWG's state that I used to generate the "immediately adjustable" delayed pulses to an XML file and attached an archive of that to this message. If you unzip it and copy the file "DELAY-TST1.XML" to a thumb drive, you could import it to your AWG using store/recall->file type (state), navigate to the drive, highlight the file and select "recall". This will put your AWG exactly into the same configuration that I used to test the delay behaviour. You may want to save your AWG's current state to another file before so you don't lose your own preferences. If you like, publish our saved instrument setup here, I'ld like to understand what actually causes your observed behaviour.
 
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #309 on: March 21, 2021, 11:30:58 am »
> I'ld like to understand what actually causes your observed behaviour.

Me too, THANKS alot for trying to help here.
now it gets very strange, I saved my state FIRST, like you suggested,
double checked it failed the delay update as explained.

Recall your state setting, it works perfectly live updates, it is in 2 x pulse mode,
ok fine i change one and two to squarewave, and still, live update delay..

now the wierd : I recall my own setting, to get back to see if my unit is still bad,
BINGO now it works, live update,
and all my settings are exactly like i left it.
so that means you mostlikely cant use my setting here attached, for anything it all

I assume, recalling your file, cleaned something

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #310 on: March 21, 2021, 12:34:59 pm »
I could not reproduce the issue oz2cpu reported. But in trying to do i found severe inconsistancys regarding delay/PM settings behavior:

SDG6052  F/W 6.01.01.36

Settings:
I am using the sync output (set to ch1)  to ext. trigger input of scope for timing reference.
Phase Mode is locked.
Channel Coupling is off.

Square and Pulse Waveforms:

You can shift delay on both channels independently as it should be. Even negative values are possible.
Adding additional phase modulation to ch2 works as expected.
But trying phase modulation to ch1  things get wierd:
The previous value of delay is reset to zero (in relation to sync output) but stays displayed as before.
Trying to change ch1 delay will change ch2!
From now on there is a permanent offset in delay according to the value active at invocation of modulation, even if turning off modulation.
Only way to reset this offset is restarting the unit.

Sine Waveform
Delay on ch1 works, but delay of ch2 stay at zero, instead ch1 will be changed.
Additional PM on ch1 does not work at all.
Additional PM on ch2 works, but changing ch2 delay will effect ch1.

Ramp and Arb. Waveform
Delay on ch2 works, but delay of ch1 stay at zero, instead ch2 will be changed.
Additional PM on ch1 works, but changing ch1 delay will effect ch2.
Additional PM on ch2 works as expected, delay ch2 works too.

Overall it seems that the Sync output is not generated on the ch1 timebase but on delayed/modulated signal itself.
That could be the reason for all that confusion.
But it also depends on history, the missing PM on Sine ch1 worked again after ramp test only changing both ch waveform to sine.









 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #311 on: March 21, 2021, 01:17:43 pm »
Those are the things that I've been complaining about virtually since when I received the instrument. A lot has been fixed by Siglent's firmware updates meanwhile, but as you dig deeper into the machine, you will find quirks and inconsitencies behind every corner. I guess that's the consequence of Siglent re-using the code of their previous AWGs (SDG1000X and SDG2000X), modifying it to work on the Zynq platform and adapting it to the substantially uprated hardware.

I guess in hindsight, it would have been a more decent move to start software development for this machine with a clean sheet and not having to deal with "old sins" and half-baked fixes of previous implementations. Especially, since the touch screen functionality had already been added as a plug-on to the original UI, long before the SDG6000X was in the pipeline.

Since the SDG6000X is clearly aimed at the professional users, doing without the frequency counter function and utilizing the free BNC connection (since the enclosure and hence the available real estate for connectors has been established long time ago) for another auxiliary in/out port would have been a wise choice. It's actually ridiculous to only have a single port for modulation, trigger, sync and what not function for BOTH channels on an instrument like that! I guess even most hobbyists will rarely turn on the frequency counter function except maybe for curiosity's sake. The whole implementation of the F/C on these instruments makes me believe that it was added more or less as an alibi since ce"R"tain contenders had that fearure as well (though on those, it's actually well implemented and useful, and they still don't lack in AUX connectivity).

Whatsoever, it is what it is (got better with every firmware release, the latest one making a big difference for me, getting the instrument's initialization consistent and reliable) and I don't expect to see a completely revamped firmware. All we can do is pestering Siglent with our findings, wishes and ideas for improvements. At least, it seems that once in a while they listen to this, probably to a large extent to Tautech's intervention.
Regarding this, a big "thanks" to him  :-+.
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #312 on: March 29, 2021, 11:59:09 am »
Found another quirk:

After @hpw's contribution regarding his findings concerning frequency modulating a square wave signal with the SDG2000X, I decided to have a close look at the SDG6000X. No, modulation doesn't drop out after some time of operation, but at low frequency deviations, there seems to be a fade-in/fade-out effect. I used the following settings:

Waverform: Square
Frequency: 10MHz
Duty Cycle: 50%
Output amplitude: -20dBm (probably irrelevant)

Frequency modulation
Modulation waveform: Square (also works with sine, ramp...)
Modulation frequency: 1kHz
Frequency deviation: 15Hz (the lower the frequency deviation, the stronger the effect is, at > 50Hz it's almost gone)

If you listen to this signal with a narrow band FM receiver, you can hear the modulation fade in and out at a fraction of a Hertz. Viewed on an SA (span 10kHz, RBW <= 100Hz), you can also see the sidebands rising and falling at the same rate. There's also some variation in amplitude of the individual sidebands vs. each other visible with this periodicity.

I compared this to the DG800 but didn't find anything like this here -- modulation is "clean as a whistle". Seems like Siglent is using too low accuracy math in their modulation engine.  :-//

That's not a big deal since apparently, this bug bites only in very rare occasion with specific settings, but nevertheless one should keep it in mind when modulating non-sinewave carriers.

Edit: Correction of a misleading term
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 07:13:20 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #313 on: April 01, 2021, 06:52:16 pm »
Well, the SDG2000 series are almost the SDG6000 series... some more nice features for heavy bucks  :scared:

So one more to check on SDG6000 please...

I checked the PM/sine modulation as:

. base freq 12khz
. PM freq. sine & 1kHz

and then lowered the phase as low as it gets as 0.000'1°  :-DD  ..

But below may 0.001° there was NO change on the side peaks levels visible. Checked with a audio ADC as 24bits. For each decade of phase a -20dB should be visible...

While did not find any specifications on that matter  :horse:

Thanks for testing

Hp

 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 06:55:06 pm by hpw »
 

Offline Le_Bassiste

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #314 on: April 03, 2021, 08:20:24 am »
Since the SDG6000X is clearly aimed at the professional users, ....

maybe it was aimed at being that, but one thing for sure it is not: an instrument for professional use.
if they could at least manage to make that parameter knob function smoothly w/o any hiccups, _and_ make frequency transitions smooth while manually sweeping, _and_ the amplitude less noisy,...
"als tiger gesprungen, als bettvorleger gelandet" /rant
An assertion ending with a question mark is a brain fart.
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #315 on: April 08, 2021, 08:44:51 pm »
@hpw:

I tried to replicate your tests but since I lack the mentioned, high-resolution audio gear that you utilized, I had to change the carrier frequency so I can comfortably measure it with my spectrum analyzer. The sweet spot regarding S/N ratio appeared to be around 1MHz, so that's what I uesd. These are my findings with a sine carrier of 1MHz, 0dBm, 1kHz sine modulation signal:
Below 0.01° phase shift, the sidebands @ 1kHz offset stay at ~ -84dBm, right down to 0° where they disappear in the noise floor all of a sudden.
Increasing the phase shift by 0.001° increments, not every increment has an effect, and only at 0.1° phase shift, the first order side bands reach the approx. correct level of -61.5dBm.

Moreover, as a reaction to @blue's reports on his SDG2000X findings, today I took a closer look at the PSU of my SDG6000X due to the hot running MLCCs parallel to the switching MOSFETs. Other than I initially thought, the MLCC at the low-side switch wasn't cracked but there was just a speck of dust on it. I removed the PSU module altogether and took a closer look at both sides:





Obviously, the build quality is good and there's nothing to complain about the choice of components. All of the elecrolytics are Rubycon brand.
The controller is an ST L6599 resonant mode half-bridge specimen with integral gate drivers. A PFC circuit isn't utilized in the PSU. In order to understand better what's going on here, I decided to run the PSU separate from the AWG with a variable power supply and a DC load at its 6.5V output (that's the one used for regulation of the converter and designed for the highest output current). Here are some thermographs, taken at 115V:





It's quite peculiar to find that the MLCCs at the switches stay rather cool while a resistor in the current sensing circuitry get noticeably warm. Moreover, the three dropper resistors for the initial startup supply run at an acceptable temperature of some 70°C.

At 230V supply voltage, things change considerably:





The elevated temperature of both MLCCs at the switches as well as the unhealthy temperature of the dropper resistors lead me to the impertinent assumption that the PSU has been designed to be operated at a 115V mains and had only more or less "by coincidence" been found to be running off 230V as well. Anybody heard of the manufacturer "Unicorn" as revealed by the sticker at the solder side?

At a load current of 3A, the first smoothing cap at the scondary gets pretty warm as well. I may have already been overloading this output with the chosen settings, though.



Since the individual component temperatures appear to be as they are "by design", I decided to leave everything as it is and only take care of it if something should fail.

But since the AWG was apart anyway, I tore it down a little further to take some more photos of the things that make it tick...





Here the CPU module is shown. It contains a Xilinx Zynq 7010 ARM Cortex A9 / FPGA combo SoC, a total of 256MB DDR3 RAM and 256MB of NAND Flash memory. There's also other peripheral stuff present like power supplies, a LAN PHY, several clock generators and two USB transceivers. Altogether, this appears to be a pretty capable system core.

...tbc in next post...


« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 12:15:50 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #316 on: April 08, 2021, 08:47:34 pm »




The main board looks pretty impressive as well. But one thing that immeadiately catches the eye are the unpopulated footprints for the sample memory around the FPGA. These positions must have been populated in earlier versions of the AWG as shown in Shariar's review/teardown video.



Even though the Xilinx Kintex7 FPGA that Siglent utilized here is "quite a beast", the available block RAM memory of 4.86Mbit results in only about 150kSamples of directly available storage per channel. I wonder how Siglent manages to provide the specified 20MSamples for arbitraries per channel?? Is the digital link between the SoC and the Kintex fast enough to provide the data rate? I also finally get an idea why eliminating glitches when switching parameters seems to be so difficult: There's simply not enough fast sample memory available to provide effective double buffering / buffer interleaving! Appears like the bean counters at Siglent won the contest against the engineers (is it different anywhere these days??).



But it gets worse: Above you can see a shot of the output section at an awkward angle, showing that there's provisions to install two output drivers per channel. One is installed, the other, well, "economized". The THS3491 utilized here is specified by the manufacturer at a maximum long-term output current of ~100mA to prevent electromigration (which will probably lead to parameter deterioration and eventually failure). The "small" problem is, that the paralleled output resistor branches form a total resistance of 50 ohms (obviously) which will result in DC currents of up to 200mA out of a single drive if the generator is used as a current source. Twice the manufacturer's absolute maximum ratings, while there's space for the second buffer that would completely eliminate this problem! Shame! That's definitely not a professional approach to use components.



One more small issue that could be improved is the mounting of the fan: Four very long machine screws hold it in place, the nuts pulling and eventually warping the fan casing towads the mounting surface. Smaller screws and the nuts placed between the two flanges would have bypassed this issue altogether, as show in the above photo (albeit with the original, long screws).

So what's my conclusion from these findings, combined with the experience of the very dragy firmware updates? Plainly, this AWG is shamelessly overpriced for what it delivers. Siglent cuts corners everywhere and appears to sort things only where / when the pressure gets too high. I don't see any substantial room for significant future inprovements or extensions by firmware update, Siglent just castrated the hardware to a point absolutely necessary for basic operation. The whole series (SDG 1000X / 2000X / 6000X) appears to have reached a dead end and I wouldn't be surprised if we will see a new platform to be released some time soon.

Rigol's entry level AWG (DG800) outperforms even this "wannabe flagship" AWG in almost every concern except bandwidth. It's really embarrassing for Siglent to offer such poor products on the AWG market while their scopes and SA / VNA product appear to be pretty competitive. I'd say it's time to change heads in certain departments...
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 09:12:30 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline JohnG

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #317 on: April 08, 2021, 11:14:18 pm »
Rigol's entry level AWG (DG800) outperforms even this "wannabe flagship" AWG in almost every concern except bandwidth. It's really embarrassing for Siglent to offer such poor products on the AWG market while their scopes and SA / VNA product appear to be pretty competitive. I'd say it's time to change heads in certain departments...

This is a nearly meaningless comparison. There is little point to buying this generator if you don't need the bandwidth. I would love to find another generator with this capability, including bandwidth, for this price. The closest Rigol generator (DG5352) can do only 350 MHz, and cost is about 2.5x higher than the SDG6052x. And, the Rigol has 500 ps (or more) jitter according to their data sheet! This makes it basically useless as a high bandwidth generator, and all the features in the world can't fix that jitter.

A useful bit of information would a better generator than the Siglent at a comparable price, or even a somewhat higher price. I have looked and not found one even close. But, please don't take a primary specification like bandwidth and throw it away to make the comparison.

Also, the thermal camera measurements are not useful for determining operating temperature when the cover is off. The actual temperatures are highly likely to be affected by this. They are probably cooler with the cover on, but they could be hotter. I don't know. Nobody does because the cover almost always has a large impact on airflow, which has a large impact on temperature. I know thermal camera pictures look fantastic, and thermal cameras are very useful. That does not make them correct when you have modified the thermal system.

Cheers,
John

"Reality is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick (RIP).
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #318 on: April 08, 2021, 11:57:27 pm »
I understand your point. But the SDG6000X is advertised as a versatile, general purpose AWG with high bandwidth, low jitter and fast slopes. Needing higher frequency signals once in a while, I purchased it some two and a half years ago as an instrument to replace all the other, lower spec'd AWGs that I've got. Does it fit into this frame? Maybe with the latest firmware , it's getting clos(er), but it's (still) not my go-to instrument when doing a quick test that doesn't require its bandwidth. Its U/I IMO is way too uncomfortable and appears rather old fashioned. And as reported before, there are still quirks and small bugs to be found everywhere. Prior to the recent F/W update, its operation was simply not predictable, directly after powering up, it could very well produce a waveform that had little to do with what was displayed on the screen. Fortunately, these problems now appear to have been sorted.

Even though its predominant feature is the high bandwidth, I think it still has to be able to operate as a "mainstream" AWG, and it's got to do that well.

I'm completely aware that the thermographs of the PSU ouside the casing tell little about the component temperatures when enclosed and vented. I also mentioned that in a contribution somewhere further above. But are MLCCs supposed to run hot at all? Especially the comparison between the two supply voltages is interesting, maybe not so much for the temperatures displayed but for the relative figures.

And my main critics is that - in test gear - using components in a way that they can be operated way beyond the manufacturer's absolute maximum ratings under certain circumstances, simply is a no-go.
 
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Offline JohnG

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #319 on: April 09, 2021, 01:06:27 am »
MLCCs can definitely heat up and often do in switch mode power supply applications. They can carry some serious ripple current, and the dissipation factor for high capacitance parts (X7R or similar) runs around 1%.  It is also common for "universal input" power supplies to run hotter on 240V input versus 120V. Sometimes the parts that get hot will change when you change the input voltage.

Also, one cannot expect things to run properly if you remove the cover of a fan cooled system. It is not a reasonable expectation that one would run a piece of test equipment with the cover off, or a system with the cooling system defeated, unless the system was designed for that. So to show pictures of parts getting hot with the cover off, and calling out that the temperatures are high, implies to many that the design is poor. It might be or might not, but the conclusion cannot be made, nor should it be implied, by these thermal camera measurements.

I can understand being disappointed in problems with the generator. It seems like there are a lot of bugs. But, an equivalent generator from a top tier test equipment company (Keysight, R&S, etc.) costs many times more, and it is still not certain that it won't have hidden quirks, bugs, or outright design flaws. I have been burned by this on some really expensive equipment.

I have a fair amount of Siglent equipment. It does me well for the money I paid. But, they are still barely a Tier II test equipment maker, like Rigol. I wish they would get this right, because they have so much potential. But then, they will raise their prices, too.

Cheers,
John
"Reality is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick (RIP).
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #320 on: April 09, 2021, 11:31:24 pm »
Tom,

Thanks for detailed analysis...

b.r,
Sinisa
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #321 on: April 10, 2021, 07:01:33 pm »
Some more testing with EasyWave X proved that Siglent somehow must have managed to store arbitraries inside the CPU module's DDR3 RAM up to a size of 20MSa per channel and transfering this into the Kintex FPGA at a rate to support 2 * 300MSa/s which equals 1.2GB/s averaged. At this load, the UI gets a little sluggish but the generator manages to continuously output the arbitrary signals. So no worries here, the AWG performs as specified. If I'm not mistaken, there are a total of 16 LVDS high-speed lines running from the Zynq module to the Kintex, so physically the required bandwidth wouldn't be a problem.

Considering this, I wonder why the four 1Gbit DDR3 RAMs have been grouped around the FPGA in earlier models. Maybe Siglent planned to provide even higher sampling rates for arbitraries or more space for samples. It's sad to see that obviously this intention had been dropped somewhere along the line...

 
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Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #322 on: April 11, 2021, 04:26:34 am »
Hallo,

@TurboTom which hardware version have you?

Shahriar has a SDG6052X. Perhaps it is yet a difference between SDG6022X and SDG6052X?

Best regards
egonotto

 

Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #323 on: April 11, 2021, 12:05:00 pm »
I understand your point. But the SDG6000X is advertised as a versatile, general purpose AWG with high bandwidth, low jitter and fast slopes....

Well have the SG2082x and run into a ch1 & ch2 level issue setup issue, may you have the same on SDG6k models?

. CH1 as square wave for master clock up to 24MHz and min & max levels as for digital levels (SDG2000 do not have digital level TTL...HCMOS options so in & max level to be used)

. CH2 setup you get the same min & max level ??? where level settings as 1..4Vpp  :-//

. CH2 so change as a sine wave as Vpp & offset= 0... OK

now the min & max level settings gets also the level & offset settings =  :wtf:

In other words, as on SDG2K model, the level setup for each channel is NOT INDEPENDENT...  :palm:

Hp
 
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #324 on: April 11, 2021, 02:37:28 pm »
@egonotto:
You are correct in so far as I've got a different hardware version (SDY8.007.146D) than Shahriar reviewed (SDY8.007.146B). I compared the PCBs as accurately as possible but the differences appear to be small. All that I could really find is the presence of the two footprints for the jumpers J14 and J15 which are actually meant for installing mounting lugs to use a different kind of heat sink on the FPGA (the configuration with the torsional wire spring for attachment) while Siglent utilized a plastic clip version on my unit which is completely adequate as well.

And then, instead of using adhesive for the output driver (THS3491) heat sink as in the "B" revision, Siglent now added a soldered sheet metal heat sink that is coupled to the output driver(s) via heat conduction through the PCB. The footprint for this has also been added in the "D" revision.

Btw, Shahriar was slightly mistaken in his description of the output amplifier: The component that he identified as a voltage regulator and "not being of much interest" is actually another THS3491 that is used as a driver for lower output levels, thus bypassing the high(er) power output stage and eliminating the noise it generates.

Signal offset voltages aren't generated by the main (high-speed) DAC so its resolution is preserved for the signal. Instead, there's a separate offset DAC (here, the small MSOP-8 chip between U34 and U45, an AD5660CRMZ-1) that is used to generate a whole buch of analog control voltages from its single output that are sampled via analog multiplexers (U34, U43, 74HC4051) and buffered by capacitive "hold"-circuits made up of CMOS Opamps (U32, U35, U45 -- TP1272).

This offset signal is now amplified by the TP1272 installed in the output section and added resistively to the main DAC output by the two "big" SMD resistors of 200ohm (offset) and 61.9ohm (signal), which, combined (paralleled) will end up at a signal impedance of approx. 50 ohms. At rather low selected output levels (combined output/offset range up to approx. +-2V hi-Z), this is the direct output signal, at higher levels, the additional amplifier is routed into the signal path. At (considerably) lower output levels, attenuators are added by the bunch of relays in the output sections. This permits the cleanest, lowest noise output signal possible. Such a configuration (separate signal/offset branches almost right to the analog outputs) can be found in most high(er) quality AWGs.

Regarding the output levels of 40Vpp that Shahriar mentioned in his review, I believe he must have erred on the high side -- I don't think the "B" revision of the AWG had been so much more capable than the currently sold revision (which maxes out at 20Vpp high-Z). It also would require a completely different "animal" as the output amplifier.

Your point regarding the AWG model I've got (SDG6022X) may be valid. Since probably few individuals purchased the SDG6052X version, we may not see another teardown of such a unit any time soon to verify they are configured identically (i.e. the dedicated sample memory unpopulated as well). But just by comparison of the specs (the figures for the arbitraries of the three models are identical), I don't believe we would find a hardware difference. Moreover, the PCB label tells "SDG6000X..." which may substantiate the assumption that there's actually only a single hardware configuration in production.

@hpw:
I copied your configuration and found -- if I understood correctly -- the same behaviour. But this only affects the U/I, the signal output is not changed. I.e. the choice to enter the amplitude as Max/Min values or as Amplitude/Offset combination is a global one -- it's common for both channels. But the instrument will internally convert the figures for the "idle" channel and won't change its output characteristics, and that's what is relevant IMO. Of course, it would be nice to have the entry scheme independent for both channels, but this once again is just another example for the overall dated appearance of the user interface.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 11:07:45 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #325 on: April 14, 2021, 05:23:21 pm »
@hpw:
I copied your configuration and found -- if I understood correctly -- the same behaviour. But this only affects the U/I, the signal output is not changed. I.e. the choice to enter the amplitude as Max/Min values or as Amplitude/Offset combination is a global one -- it's common for both channels. But the instrument will internally convert the figures for the "idle" channel and won't change its output characteristics, and that's what is relevant IMO. Of course, it would be nice to have the entry scheme independent for both channels, but this once again is just another example for the overall dated appearance of the user interface.

Thank you for testing... in other words it is not WYSIWYG, as a student implementation  :phew:

One additional, as you are able (only given on SDG6000 models) to select as ECL...HCMOS preset system configurations, so if you have

on CH1 : HCMOS level set with min & max level or what they at the end show up?

on CH2: Sine as level & offset

how this deals if you change from CH1 <> Ch2 ??

Hp
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 05:25:09 pm by hpw »
 

Offline nwind

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #326 on: April 15, 2021, 04:43:31 pm »
I'm getting my SDG6022X tomorrow and after initial testing obviously want it to be "updated" to 500MHz SDG6052X.
Being not exactly a SW person :) I would really appreciate simple step by step instruction(s) how to do it and if necessary to roll back to SDG6022X.

I know that some details there mentioned above, but they are scattered and sometimes not very clear (at least for me :)), any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 06:22:51 pm by nwind »
 

Offline Michael YYZ

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #327 on: April 23, 2021, 12:44:53 pm »
How’s your new SDG6022X? I’m supposed to pick up mine later today.  :)

I'm getting my SDG6022X tomorrow and after initial testing obviously want it to be "updated" to 500MHz SDG6052X.
Being not exactly a SW person :) I would really appreciate simple step by step instruction(s) how to do it and if necessary to roll back to SDG6022X.

I know that some details there mentioned above, but they are scattered and sometimes not very clear (at least for me :)), any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 

Offline Michael YYZ

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #328 on: April 27, 2021, 03:59:51 am »
I updated my new SDG6022X from firmware version 6.01.01.35R5B1 to 6.01.01.36. I noticed that a value of 50 Ohms is now shown on the ‘Output’ line, at the bottom right corner of the screen/display. I believe this indication was not there before and it seems to be not user-editable (unlike the HiZ / 50 Ohm value on the ‘Load’ line which can be edited by the user).

Perhaps it is super-obvious but I don’t seem to get it: what is the meaning of the 50 Ohm indication on the ‘Output’ line? Screenshot attached, too.

Thanks.
 

Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #329 on: April 27, 2021, 04:21:24 am »
Hello,

Michael YYZ wrote:
"Perhaps it is super-obvious but I don’t seem to get it: what is the meaning of the 50 Ohm indication on the ‘Output’ line?"

Perhaps it is to remember that the output impedance is always 50 Ohm. The user-editable load impedance is used only to calculate the voltage at the load.

Best regards
egonotto
 

Offline Michael YYZ

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #330 on: April 27, 2021, 05:30:50 am »
Most likely you are right. But it seems a tad confusing to me since, as the indicator is shown on the right side of the line, it looks like being a user-editable parameter. Perhaps they should’ve written it like this:

“Output (50 Ohms) ON”

Thanks!

Hello,

Perhaps it is to remember that the output impedance is always 50 Ohm. The user-editable load impedance is used only to calculate the voltage at the load.

Best regards
egonotto
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #331 on: April 27, 2021, 06:40:51 am »
My opinion is it is  just right. (why it need even tell because it read front panel near BNC)


It is still very good there always read it because there is so many kind of users, so even they change Load to 50 ohm or 300 or 600 ohm or 75 ohm or 60 ohm or 57 ohm,  display make it clear to user that source impedance is still always fixed 50 ohm. Even when it also read in front panel near BNC.

Load: Hi-Z or  50,51,52,53...... up to 100kΩ
Output:  50Ω  On/Off


How it make it better or more clear if it is in parenthesis. Dictionary, Parenthesis: Around words or numbers to indicate that they are additional, separate, or less important.

Please explain now why parenthesis make it more clear or less confusion. In my mind it add confusion.
If think this dictionary. How this 50 ohm output impedance is less important or additional or separate.

Load Hi-Z  or  50,51,52,53...... up to 100kΩ
Output       (50Ω)  On/Off

In this case I start thinking why 50 is in parenthesis... is it 50 or not...
Load Hi-Z    53Ω
Output       (50Ω)  On/Off



In my mind this, As it is now implemented,  is clear like water.

Load          Hi-Z
Output       50Ω  On/Off

Load          50Ω
Output       50Ω  On/Off


Load          75Ω
Output       50Ω  On/Off


Load          666Ω
Output       50Ω  On/Off
« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 06:43:25 am by rf-loop »
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Offline Michael YYZ

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #332 on: April 27, 2021, 07:31:38 pm »
I’m not going to argue with you, or with anyone else for that matter, or split hairs on a topic which may be not that important as to warrant too much time debating. I already explained the reason for confusion and provided a suggestion. It’s your right to disagree.

Please explain now why parenthesis make it more clear or less confusion. In my mind it add confusion.
 

Offline dabombers

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #333 on: May 12, 2021, 07:27:02 am »
Did you have any luck on this???

Been trying to do my research here and after today I'm melted...
Today I unleashed the python script onto the SDS2000+ and now I have a fully unlocked system... 500Mhz...  Full decodes... ahh its beautiful...
So after spending the last 3 hours researching how to unlock IQ and the full 500mhz on the SDG6022X i've come a guts up...

Understanding so far:
Upgrading needs to be done by SCPI or is it done via altering the firmware {*.ads} file????   I told ya i've melted right!!

So I've tested out a telnet session but can only access over port 5024 as mentioned in the Siglent "Verification of a LAN connection using Telnet" Paper... 
Cannot access other ports mentioned in the Siglent .ads File format thread or the Hack Threads..


OK I'm lost... Any Help or suggestions?
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #334 on: May 12, 2021, 12:38:10 pm »
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline dabombers

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #335 on: May 12, 2021, 02:48:50 pm »
Thanks for the reply @tautech.  :-+

So I have got as far as getting Telnet to work and viewing the "NSP_system_info.xml.orig"  with the VI..
Trying to edit the lines is getting me nowhere and not sure I am saving  file correctly to update. (tried using ZZ as well as ::wq  but  system still @ 6022x)

OK this explanation is even confusing myself.. lets start again and keep is simple..

I have this line:
<license><bandwidth_update_license>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX</bandwidth_update_license></license></system_information>

It has data in the field where X's are:  Should I be generating a new serial? or

do I want to change it to look like this or to this??
<license><iq_support_update_license>TRUE</iq_support_update_license></license></system_information>

and if this is what I change it to why do I enter this line into the file with 'TRUE' replaced with a generated serial...

I think I may take up drinking again.....

 

Offline dabombers

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #336 on: May 13, 2021, 03:54:22 am »
Ok gave it a few more attempts this morning and there is just something I am not understanding or missing..
Breakdown.

SDG6022X > Upgrade Bandwidth and unlock IQ option

Have these:
Telnet .ads file to open port 10101 and bypass pword
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091
V1 directions to edit file in telnet vi
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg3174512/#msg3174512
V2 directions to edit file in telnet vi (Similar but a little different in tenet commands used as I'm guessing it uses the BusyBox VI commands)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg3264558/#msg3264558
Python Script (It has two 'TRUE' outputs both end up same data.... Is this for the IQ option or the Bandwidth upgrade)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg3174684/#msg3174684
 
I also have the PyDesSiglent.py code. Havent used this not sure if I need to and on what data/file or really how to... but I do have a HEX editor.. good old notepad++)
but I dont have the (janekivi full OS file)

I have followed both V1  and V2's directions in a few different ways... of changing the line mentioned with either TRUE on the
<license><bandwidth_update_license>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX</bandwidth_update_license></
license></system_information>
As well as replacing entire line with
<license><iq_support_update_license>TRUE</iq_support_update_license></license></
system_information>
with True Replaced by python gen code.
and finally deleting all in line except for </system_information> and leaving this only

 :-//   |O

Now I reckon I am not saving/updating file incorrectly using command 'ZZ' in BusyBox version then resetting system both with USB in and out.
As well as other commands used in V2 (not using BusyBox VI)...
Then again I think I am just missing something - 'Domestic Blindness on Instructions'

Would like this up and going by the weekend to work on some DSP stuff.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 03:24:35 am by dabombers »
 

Offline blurpy

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #337 on: May 13, 2021, 08:01:42 am »
Careful with those links, they try to make new posts when you click on them.
Perhaps clean them up first?
 
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Offline dabombers

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #338 on: May 24, 2021, 06:53:25 am »
Took me a few more goes but sorted this out..

Thanks to user : ludee for his help.
 

Offline rdsi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #339 on: June 22, 2021, 01:33:07 am »
My SDG6000X LAN port died & I just wanted to say Siglent USA took care of the problem under warranty.  Just got my unit back today & it’s good as new.
Also, my hack was still in place but for some reason they downgraded the firmware from 35 to 28? Anyway, I installed the latest version (36) without any problems and my hack is still in effect.
Yeah, I had to pay for shipping back to Silent.
 

Offline sbvr4

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #340 on: July 11, 2021, 12:43:30 am »
Hi all,
Just picked up a SDG6022x yesterday. Can someone please tell me what the secret is to connect to the unit via Telnet? I cannot get a connection no matter how many times I try. It just times out. I'm using the IP address the unit came with and teraterm.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sean
 

Offline sbvr4

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #341 on: July 12, 2021, 04:24:47 pm »
Please disregard my connection issue. Got it figured out.

Thank you
 

Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #342 on: November 17, 2021, 09:38:14 pm »
darn it.. my problem from post #307 is BACK !!
no live update of delay from ch1 - ch2 as explained in the video
how to solve this, permanently ??
Radioamateur OZ2CPU, Senior EE at Prevas
EMC RF SMPS SI PCB LAYOUT and all that stuff.
 

Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #343 on: November 18, 2021, 11:51:29 am »
did you try FM on one ch ? and no modulation, same frequency on the other channel ??

the more FM you add, the more one ch roll , this means its avarage frequency is NOT the same, as the other non modulated channel..
for details look here :
https://youtu.be/FGJ2xUX1u1k
Radioamateur OZ2CPU, Senior EE at Prevas
EMC RF SMPS SI PCB LAYOUT and all that stuff.
 

Offline maxwell3e10

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #344 on: November 22, 2021, 05:01:41 am »
I wish this nice generator had more connectors on the back, like Rigol DG5000 series. Otherwise two-channel operation is quite limited.
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #345 on: November 22, 2021, 09:04:02 am »
well i wish it did not have all the mentioned bugs in the software.
and also a 3ch version would be nice, i work with 3phase stuff a lot, so i have a chepo china generator for 3ph stuff,
i like to throw it out, and only have nice siglent equipment.
Radioamateur OZ2CPU, Senior EE at Prevas
EMC RF SMPS SI PCB LAYOUT and all that stuff.
 

Offline again_gyf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #346 on: November 23, 2021, 04:18:47 am »
Does anyone can share "SDG6000X_eevblog_29R10.zip".
 

Offline fasset

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #347 on: February 07, 2022, 09:54:56 am »
Hi.
SDG6022X allows different digital modulations on both channels at the same time from internal source?
E.g. FSK 1k bp/s with internal data on CH1,
and FSK 10k bp/s with other internal data on CH2.

Or:
E.g. FSK 1k bp/s with internal data on CH1,
and PSK 1k bp/s with other internal data on CH2.

and other variations.


Thanks you.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2022, 09:56:32 am by fasset »
 

Offline egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #348 on: February 07, 2022, 10:49:44 pm »
Hello,

FSK CH1
1 KHz
Key Freq 100 Hz
Hop Freq 2 KHz

FSK CH2
1 KHz
Key Freq 100 Hz
Hop Freq 500 Hz

Best regards
egonotto

 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #349 on: February 09, 2022, 12:35:55 pm »
As a reaction to @jeraymond's finding on the SDG2000X and the obvious similarities between the instruments, I tried to verify the mentioned problems on my "6000". And here's what I found (both channels set to 10MHz Sine wave, CH1 "left alone" and connected to a scope, external REF supplied and connected to the triggered channel of a scope -- but the AWG shows identical bahaviour if the internal reference is used --, CH2 Burst Mode enabled/disabled and burst parameters changed for testing):

The SDG6000X in "Phase Mode: Locked" performs even worse than the '2000X in this regards: It doesn't matter if Burst is enabled or not, as soon as certain burst periods are entered, the frequency of the "unaffected" channel (10MHz sine) changes by a maximum (as yet figured out at a burst period of 99.999991ms ) of ~0.8Hz. What makes it even more funny: If the burst period is set to 100ms via the keypad, some frequency drift is present (~0.2Hz deviation). If I now change the period via the encoder by 1ns down and up again (so the diplay shows 100ms burst period just like before), the frequency drift is gone! I've got to increase the period by another 1ns to make it reappear. Seems like the internal resolution of the burst period register / math engine is less accurate than the displayed value (1ns).

If "Phase Mode: Independent" is selected, the situation is much better -- means: No frequency deviation whatsoever if burst mode is selected or changed for the "other" channel, but still, when pressing the the "Burst" menu button, the "should-be" unaffected channel stops shortly and restarts at a new phase angle vs. the reference clock. Siglent, WHY?

I probably don't need to tell, my current "go-to" generator for stuff that wouldn't require the high frequency performance or high(er) frequency level accuracy of the SDG6000X, Rigol's dg811(+++++++)  ;), shows none of this "magic". It works like two separate AWGs, which is what the waveform engines in the FPGA probably are...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 12:40:55 pm by TurboTom »
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #350 on: February 10, 2022, 11:43:45 am »
Hi.
SDG6022X allows different digital modulations on both channels at the same time from internal source?
E.g. FSK 1k bp/s with internal data on CH1,
and FSK 10k bp/s with other internal data on CH2.

Or:
E.g. FSK 1k bp/s with internal data on CH1,
and PSK 1k bp/s with other internal data on CH2.

and other variations.


Thanks you.

Seems like any combination of modulations is possible, only I/Q modulation is available as a "single option" (obviously since both channels are required for this). Here's your inquiry of FSK and PSK. For FSK, you select the "shifted" frequency and the modulation rate (internal source) which may be up to 1MHz which appears to be common for all "simple" modulation schemes. Analog modulations like AM, FM, PM, DSB also allow arbitraries as modulation sources, thus it should be possible to even generate an FBAS-modulated UHF TV signal (didn't try). Might be boring to watch, though...  ;)
 
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #351 on: February 14, 2022, 12:41:23 pm »
SDG6000 can play back wave files, so far so good
did anyone have a file, for a PAL composite test picture, colorbars, sharpness bars and the whole thing ?
interlaced and all ?
will it be too large/detailed for its wave memory ?
Radioamateur OZ2CPU, Senior EE at Prevas
EMC RF SMPS SI PCB LAYOUT and all that stuff.
 
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Offline fasset

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #352 on: March 28, 2022, 08:08:59 am »
Seems like any combination of modulations is possible, only I/Q modulation is available as a "single option" (obviously since both channels are required for this). Here's your inquiry of FSK and PSK. For FSK, you select the "shifted" frequency and the modulation rate (internal source) which may be up to 1MHz which appears to be common for all "simple" modulation schemes. Analog modulations like AM, FM, PM, DSB also allow arbitraries as modulation sources, thus it should be possible to even generate an FBAS-modulated UHF TV signal (didn't try). Might be boring to watch, though...  ;)

Ok, thanks.
I have read the whole thread.
You have mentioned a lot of problems and bugs here and also you have
personal experience with comparison to other AWG units.

Most of them are fixed (f.e. glitches).
Previously you said you have to verify waveform on oscilloscope every time when you changing setup.
It is still actual problem? Would you buy SGD6000x model again? It is reliable and are you using it for a now?

Not many AWG have also IQ option which can be useful in my future projects so Siglent is potentially good option.
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #353 on: March 28, 2022, 10:34:00 am »
Let's put it like this:

The performance (available frequency range, rise time, I/Q modulation -- though not with an arbitrary external data source), if you consider hacking and thus the price for the SDG6022X, is quite respectable. The previously troublesome incomplete initialization issue after some cold-starts or mode changes and thus the requirement to verify the integrity of the waveform has been addressed by Siglent in one of the recent firmware updates, so that's sorted.

So if you particularly need the high bandwidth or the I/Q functionality, go for it!

U/I of the instrument is mediocre at best, showing its age (heritage of the SDG1000X series), the encoder's performance is less than stellar and the display with the resistive touchscreen has a pitiful contrast. The touch functionality is not really worth talking about, it appears to be a reluctantly implemented afterthought, same as the frequency counter function.

If you're just in the market for "universal" AWG and the high bandwidth and I/Q options aren't requirements, I'ld get a different instrument anytime and skip Siglent products entirely! They have their strong points in o'scopes and RF gear but their "mature" AWG series isn't among them. Don't know about the new SDG7000A, though. But that's playing in a different league, also price-wise.

Would I buy it again? Clearly, NO!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2022, 10:35:45 am by TurboTom »
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #354 on: March 28, 2022, 11:39:26 am »
Let's put it like this:

The performance (available frequency range, rise time, I/Q modulation -- though not with an arbitrary external data source), if you consider hacking and thus the price for the SDG6022X, is quite respectable. The previously troublesome incomplete initialization issue after some cold-starts or mode changes and thus the requirement to verify the integrity of the waveform has been addressed by Siglent in one of the recent firmware updates, so that's sorted.

So if you particularly need the high bandwidth or the I/Q functionality, go for it!

U/I of the instrument is mediocre at best, showing its age (heritage of the SDG1000X series), the encoder's performance is less than stellar and the display with the resistive touchscreen has a pitiful contrast. The touch functionality is not really worth talking about, it appears to be a reluctantly implemented afterthought, same as the frequency counter function.

If you're just in the market for "universal" AWG and the high bandwidth and I/Q options aren't requirements, I'ld get a different instrument anytime and skip Siglent products entirely! They have their strong points in o'scopes and RF gear but their "mature" AWG series isn't among them. Don't know about the new SDG7000A, though. But that's playing in a different league, also price-wise.

Would I buy it again? Clearly, NO!

Well,

while I also complained to slow responding encoder, I would disagree with "clearly NO!".

Screen is touch screen, and resistive type. Very good ? No. But I don't use it much. Buttons are quite quick.
So I just disregard touch screen. It is not a primary U/I anyways.
Honestly, any touch screen that is so small won't be good U/I for touch, especially if you don't keep on the desk right next to you. Screen contrast is not best but personally never had problems reading.

And yes bandwidth and I/Q modulation are very important features. Very much so.

So to me it is more that it could have been so much better if it was made today, differently.. But that would be different product then. So a moot point at this time..

None of the stuff you mentioned would be "clearly NO!" to me.
 
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #355 on: March 28, 2022, 11:44:49 am »
Would I buy it again?

YES, i love it..
True there are a few minor bugs, that is a bit frustrating they dont get solved
most of it should be very simple to solve for the sw people involved.
i just learned to work a round the bugs..
again : PLEASE siglent... fix it.. release a new sw for us, we are ready for it
Radioamateur OZ2CPU, Senior EE at Prevas
EMC RF SMPS SI PCB LAYOUT and all that stuff.
 
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #356 on: March 28, 2022, 01:20:53 pm »
@fasset - and here you've got it, three individuals, three different attitudes  ;).

Point is, if you need the performance, there's no other choice in its price range, and despite its shortcomings otherwise, you will get the job done with it.

After I received two R&S SM300 signal generators (albeit repair jobs) for quite little money, my SDG6000X gets rarely taken off the shelf; the I/Q function may be nice to have but as yet I didn't have to use it for paid jobs. As a "general purpose" AWG I was quite surprised how well instruments form other manufacturers perform that have the touch screen feature integrated in their design right from the start.

In the end, you're the one who knows best what features you need and what amount of "U/I comfort" you expect. So your milage may vary...  :-//  8)
 
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Offline Plasmateur

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #357 on: April 20, 2022, 02:28:04 am »
I was able to bandwidth upgrade my SDG6022X to SDG6052X using this script

Code: [Select]
import hashlib
# Replace this with your SN
SN = 'SDG00000000000'
Model = 'SDG6000X'
otheropt = ('500M' )
hashkey ='5zao9lyua01pp7hjzm3orcq90mds63z6zi5kv7vmv3ih981vlwn06txnjdtas3u2wa8msx61i12ueh14t7kqwsfskg032nhyuy1d9vv2wm925rd18kih9xhkyilobbgy'
def gen(x):
    h = hashlib.md5((
        hashkey + (Model+'\n').ljust(32, '\x00') +
        opt.ljust(5, '\x00') +
        2*((SN + '\n').ljust(32, '\x00')) +
        '\x00'*16).encode('ascii')
        ).digest()
    key = ''
    for b in h:
        if (b <= 0x2F or b > 0x39) and (b <= 0x60 or b > 0x7A):
            m = b % 0x24
            b = m + (0x57 if m > 9 else 0x30)
        if b == 0x30: b = 0x32
        if b == 0x31: b = 0x33
        if b == 0x6c: b = 0x6d
        if b == 0x6f: b = 0x70
        key += chr(b)
    return key.upper()
for opt in otheropt:
    print('{:5} {}'.format(opt, gen(SN)))

However I don't know the SCPI command for the IQ upgrade. Has anyone figured this out?
 

Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #358 on: April 20, 2022, 07:26:36 am »
IQ unlock is done via frontpanel manual input
Radioamateur OZ2CPU, Senior EE at Prevas
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Offline DL2XY

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #359 on: April 20, 2022, 07:34:28 am »
SDG6000 can play back wave files, so far so good
did anyone have a file, for a PAL composite test picture, colorbars, sharpness bars and the whole thing ?
interlaced and all ?
will it be too large/detailed for its wave memory ?

No problem, the channel bandwidth for PAL B is 7MHz. 20MS/s Samplerate is sufficent, that will give you a 10s videoclip with the available memory.

Walter

 
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Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #360 on: April 23, 2022, 08:51:30 pm »
New firmware for SDG6000X models.

Version 6.01.01.36R1
27 MB
https://siglentna.com/download/27353/

Release notes
1. Control the IQ output amplitude to avoid distortion
2. Optimize phase noise when using external reference clock
3. Fix bug in FM modulation on square waveform
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Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #361 on: April 24, 2022, 12:47:33 pm »
 :-- after one year, I had hoped for more than that! Looks a lot like alibi action...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2022, 12:49:23 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #362 on: April 24, 2022, 01:37:39 pm »
Quote
I had hoped for more than that!

Are there still bugs "alive" actually ?

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #363 on: April 24, 2022, 03:02:17 pm »
There are still many "usability issues" that could be eliminated with small modifications that would make the instrument much more pleasant to deal with.

1. Rotary encoder - stay on the digit! IMO, it's an absolutely horrible approach to jump the decimal when reaching the "end" of the adjustable range while incrementally adjusting a parameter. Example: I want to adjust a pulse width between 100µs and 2ms in 100µs steps by means of the rotary encoder. So I enter 1ms via the keypad and set the adjustable digit to the 100µs decimal. Now everything's fine as long as I don't accidentally "try to" reduce the pulse width below 100µs, which results in the adjustable digit to jump to the 10µs decimal and to stay there, even if I increase the pulse width again above 100µs. I'ld expect to have at least the choice (by a U/I configuration switch) to simply have the the decrement function stop there and notify me by means of a different "key tone" and/or a short popup that I tried to exceed the adjustable range. This approach would be desirable for all parameters that can be adjusted incrementally. The funny thing about this "feature" is that the decimal jumping stops when the cursor reaches the decimal delimiter! It's simply inconsitent.

2. Adjustments to one parameter affecting the settings of other parameters: In pulse mode, select 50Hz frequency and 10ms pulse width. Now increase the frequency (incrementally or via keypad) to 100Hz or above -- the pulse width will be automatically decreased to a value to permit generating the requested frequency with the preset parameters. It doesn't work in reverse -- increasing the pulse width isn't accepted, the frequency is kept as a "hard limit" for the pulse width. I simply expect a good lab instrument to give me the choice if mutually dependent parameters will affect each other automatically or if adjustment attempts beyond borders that will affect these parameters will simply be blocked. Once again, this could be enabled/disabled as a switch in the system configuration. There may be other places where this issue is present, I picked the example just for ease of understanding.

3. Selecting higher digits for adjustment with the encoder: If a low-digit value has been entered for a parameter, say 1Hz, it's simply impossible to chose a digit for adjustment higher than 1Hz. Why doesn't the user interface permit to select for example the 100Hz digit by simply adding zeros to the left of the 1Hz digit and permitting to increment this digit? Couldn't be simpler than that!

4. Built-in arbitrary selection: Waveform -> Page2 -> Arb -> Arb Type -> Built-in, then I can finally chose the group of built-in arbitraries and the waveform itself. These are six/seven menus and keypresses to select the waveform. For the first selection, okay, be it like that, but if I find the selected waveform unsuitable for the intended job and I'ld like to try a few others, I've got to go through this procedure over and over again. This instrument has got a touchscreen! Touching the waveform window takes me back to the lowest level of waveform selection, identical to pressing the "waveform" hardkey. In Built-in Arb mode, it would be much more intuitive to take the user back just to the built-in arb selection page. This would make a big difference in usability comfort. Make decent use of the touchscreen! Simply replicating functions that are already present as hardkeys is nonsense! Implement (more) shortcuts as it has been done with the output impedance function.

I must have posted the same or a similar write-up some time ago already but what the heck, maybe it's got to be repeated to make Siglent "hear" it. Maybe I'm only too critical, and most users are happy with the instrument the way it is, and I'm aware that different usage cases favor different features. My point is mostly related to "eyes-off" operation, i.e. the user makes adjustments while observing the behaviour of a DUT on a different instrument, so a parameter can be easily "twisted" out of range.

5. In conjunction with this, additional upper/lower "limits" menus for parameters like pulse width, frequency, modulation depth... as it's already (globally) present for the output amplitude (upper), would be a nice feature (maybe with a global enable/override for the additional limits).

I'm sure many of these points are just common sense and won't be too difficult to implement. And they would make the SDG6000X much more enjoyable to use and attractive to the customer. One will get the job done without having these issues fixed, but IMO it leaves the impression of an unfinished product.

Edit:
6. In harmonic mode, the instrument still doesn't permit to enter the amplitude of the harmonics in Vrms even though it's possible for the fundamental.  Why, Siglent, why?  :palm:
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 01:05:44 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #364 on: April 26, 2022, 10:53:42 am »
Is this FW already gone??

while not present on any download side... also link do not work!!

waiting for the FW for SDG2K since a year O:((((((

 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #365 on: April 26, 2022, 07:50:59 pm »
 :-//
It's been pulled for some reason.
Will hunt the reason why.....
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #366 on: April 28, 2022, 08:03:40 am »
:-//
It's been pulled for some reason.
Will hunt the reason why.....

Any the answer is.... while at :popcorn:

May ask also when the SDG2K gets this square wave modulation fixed...
 

Offline oewean

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #367 on: September 01, 2022, 11:56:36 am »
New firmware for the SDG6000X released today:
SDG6000X Firmware - V6.01.01.36R3 (Release Date 09.01.22 )

1. Control the IQ output amplitude to avoid distortion
2. Optimize phase noise when using external reference clock
3. Fixed bug in FM modulation on square waveform
4. Fixed bug that the output amplitude of square wave, pulse
wave and PRBS is smaller than the set value
5. Fixed bug that VPP was still displayed on the UI when control
the output amplitude in dBm by the SCPI command
6. Fixed the problem of abnormal pulse output when pressing
output in burst mode
7. Resolve potential key and touch non response issues
8. Fixed the bug that 128QAM cannot be demodulated
Norwegian distributor of test and measurement equipment....
Adroit.no
 
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #368 on: September 01, 2022, 02:08:02 pm »
New firmware for the SDG6000X released today:
SDG6000X Firmware - V6.01.01.36R3 (Release Date 09.01.22 )

1. Control the IQ output amplitude to avoid distortion
2. Optimize phase noise when using external reference clock
3. Fixed bug in FM modulation on square waveform
4. Fixed bug that the output amplitude of square wave, pulse
wave and PRBS is smaller than the set value
5. Fixed bug that VPP was still displayed on the UI when control
the output amplitude in dBm by the SCPI command
6. Fixed the problem of abnormal pulse output when pressing
output in burst mode
7. Resolve potential key and touch non response issues
8. Fixed the bug that 128QAM cannot be demodulated


Mira, mira, 3. Fixed bug in FM modulation on square waveform

As I noted on SDG2K, as given FW from Siglent support SDG2000X_P37R2 to test did not worked properly!

To check  Issue using 10MHz square & FM, 500Hz FM, 50mHz deviation:

500Hz signal fades out & in 30 second ... 1 Minute interval. May start first with 200mH deviations...

So how does this works on SDG6K & new FW?

 

Offline strahd_von_zarovich

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #369 on: October 17, 2022, 02:07:07 pm »
How can we use this script? I connect the device using command window and telnet, and send these messages, but I can not get any progress. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks in advance.

I was able to bandwidth upgrade my SDG6022X to SDG6052X using this script

Code: [Select]
import hashlib
# Replace this with your SN
SN = 'SDG00000000000'
Model = 'SDG6000X'
otheropt = ('500M' )
hashkey ='5zao9lyua01pp7hjzm3orcq90mds63z6zi5kv7vmv3ih981vlwn06txnjdtas3u2wa8msx61i12ueh14t7kqwsfskg032nhyuy1d9vv2wm925rd18kih9xhkyilobbgy'
def gen(x):
    h = hashlib.md5((
        hashkey + (Model+'\n').ljust(32, '\x00') +
        opt.ljust(5, '\x00') +
        2*((SN + '\n').ljust(32, '\x00')) +
        '\x00'*16).encode('ascii')
        ).digest()
    key = ''
    for b in h:
        if (b <= 0x2F or b > 0x39) and (b <= 0x60 or b > 0x7A):
            m = b % 0x24
            b = m + (0x57 if m > 9 else 0x30)
        if b == 0x30: b = 0x32
        if b == 0x31: b = 0x33
        if b == 0x6c: b = 0x6d
        if b == 0x6f: b = 0x70
        key += chr(b)
    return key.upper()
for opt in otheropt:
    print('{:5} {}'.format(opt, gen(SN)))

However I don't know the SCPI command for the IQ upgrade. Has anyone figured this out?
 

Offline berke

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #370 on: December 01, 2022, 10:25:42 pm »
Just got an SDG6022X.  Overall I'm pleased with it but I noticed a slow ~3.68 ns drift between the sync output and the channel output.  The firmware is V6.01.01.36R3.  See below, I connected the Aux to the scope's trig, and I'm generating a pulse from channel 1.  The timing of the channel 1 output slowly drifts by about ±1.8 ns.  Same thing happens if I connect Aux to the scope's second channel so it's not a triggering issue with the scope.
 
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Offline XerXes777

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #371 on: December 05, 2022, 08:23:26 pm »
What is the KEY Word to get the IQ Key?
I use this Script:
I try these words:
IQ, I/Q, IQWAVE, AWG, SDG6000X-IQ, SDG6000XIQ, WAVE
I got the 500M Key its works.

Code: [Select]
# Keygen program for Siglent oscilloscopes

import hashlib

# You get this by running "SCOPEID?" at the SCIP prompt and removing the dashes
SCOPEID = '0000000000000000'
# Replace this with your SN
SN = 'SDS00000000000'
# This is one of the four options below
Model = 'SDG6000X'
# 'SDS1000X-E', 'SDS2000X-E', 'SDS2000X+', 'SDS5000X', 'ZODIAC-'

bwopt = ('25M', '40M', '50M', '60M', '70M', '100M', '150M', '200M',
         '250M', '300M', '350M', '500M', '750M', '1000M', 'MAX')
otheropt = ('AWG', 'WIFI', 'MSO', 'FLX',
            'CFD', 'I2S', '1553', 'FG', '16LA')

hashkey = '5zao9lyua01pp7hjzm3orcq90mds63z6zi5kv7vmv3ih981vlwn06txnjdtas3u2wa8msx61i12ueh14t7kqwsfskg032nhyuy1d9vv2wm925rd18kih9xhkyilobbgy'

def gen(x):
    h = hashlib.md5((
        hashkey +
        (Model+'\n').ljust(32, '\x00') +
        opt.ljust(5, '\x00') +
        2*(((SCOPEID if opt in bwopt else SN) + '\n').ljust(32, '\x00')) +
        '\x00'*16).encode('ascii')
    ).digest()
    key = ''
    for b in h:
        if (b <= 0x2F or b > 0x39) and (b <= 0x60 or b > 0x7A):
            m = b % 0x24
            b = m + (0x57 if m > 9 else 0x30)
        if b == 0x30:
            b = 0x32
        if b == 0x31:
            b = 0x33
        if b == 0x6c:
            b = 0x6d
        if b == 0x6f:
            b = 0x70
        key += chr(b)
    return key.upper()

for opt in bwopt:
    print('{:5} {}'.format(opt, gen(SCOPEID)))
for opt in otheropt:
    print('{:5} {}'.format(opt, gen(SN)))
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #372 on: December 06, 2022, 07:13:03 am »
Just got an SDG6022X.  Overall I'm pleased with it but I noticed a slow ~3.68 ns drift between the sync output and the channel output.  The firmware is V6.01.01.36R3.  See below, I connected the Aux to the scope's trig, and I'm generating a pulse from channel 1.  The timing of the channel 1 output slowly drifts by about ±1.8 ns.  Same thing happens if I connect Aux to the scope's second channel so it's not a triggering issue with the scope.
(Attachment Link)
I guess that's the same behaviour I observed here -- see the description regarding the second photo of the post. It's all about rounding errors due to the finite accuacy of the internal math engine, combined wiht the waveform synthesis principle of these generators (called "True Arb" in this case, which basically refers to a dynamic sample adjustment at increments finer than the sync output can be adjusted). It may also relate to the oversampling principle utilized in siglent's generators, i.e. the ad-friendly 2.4GSa/s cut down to a real world's 600MSa/s with a few real benefits when generating sine signals, which basically get handled by the DAC internally. The total drift window of ~3.3ns suggests that the real internal sampling speed at those frequencies where a sync signal can be generated (up to 10MHz!), the sample frequency is further reduced by 2 (not that it would make any difference). I also more then once mentioned (and won't get tired of it... >:D ) that Siglent's decision ot provide a single Aux connection on this series of AWGs, common for both channels, may not have been the brightest one...

Anyway, if you got this AWG for its I/Q and high frequency range capabilities, you probably made a decent choice. Enjoy your new instrument!
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #373 on: December 06, 2022, 07:46:52 am »
What is the KEY Word to get the IQ Key?
I use this Script:
I try these words:
IQ, I/Q, IQWAVE, AWG, SDG6000X-IQ, SDG6000XIQ, WAVE
I got the 500M Key its works.

It might be the SKU code here:
https://siglentna.com/product/sdg-6000x-iq-signal-generator-function/
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
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Offline berke

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #374 on: December 06, 2022, 10:57:37 pm »
I guess that's the same behaviour I observed here -- see the description regarding the second photo of the post.
Yes that's exactly it.  Your A to B delay vs. time plot nails it.  I guess I should have read the whole thread before posting !

Quote
It's all about rounding errors due to the finite accuacy of the internal math engine, combined wiht the waveform synthesis principle of these generators (called "True Arb" in this case, which basically refers to a dynamic sample adjustment at increments finer than the sync output can be adjusted). It may also relate to the oversampling principle utilized in siglent's generators, i.e. the ad-friendly 2.4GSa/s cut down to a real world's 600MSa/s with a few real benefits when generating sine signals, which basically get handled by the DAC internally. The total drift window of ~3.3ns suggests that the real internal sampling speed at those frequencies where a sync signal can be generated (up to 10MHz!), the sample frequency is further reduced by 2 (not that it would make any difference).
Do you have a block diagram for this thing?

The drift is so regular I'm wondering if it can be fixed in the FPGA or at least "dithered away".  Maybe there are some frequencies where there is no drift?

Quote
Anyway, if you got this AWG for its I/Q and high frequency range capabilities, you probably made a decent choice. Enjoy your new instrument!
I bought it mainly to replace my old 10 MHz GW Instek analog function generator without breaking the bank too much (that thing can't stay on frequency for a second.)  So it's night and day.  Now should I have bought something else for the same price or less?  I considered some entry-level Keysight/Tek generators but right now I do need to look at ≥50 MHz-ish digital signals with some reasonably fast edges (say 3 ns), for which the PRBS output is handly.  The AUX sync output drift sucks but I can tap the channel or use the second channel as a sync output.

Quote
I also more then once mentioned (and won't get tired of it... >:D ) that Siglent's decision ot provide a single Aux connection on this series of AWGs, common for both channels, may not have been the brightest one...
I agree a dedicated sync out connector would be better.  There should be a EU law mandating front-panel dedicated 50 ohm sync out connectors in all AWGs sold in the EU.  BTW the shape of the sync pulse is quite horrible and it refuses to output a sync signal above 10 MHz.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #375 on: December 07, 2022, 12:33:13 am »
I bought it mainly to replace my old 10 MHz GW Instek analog function generator without breaking the bank too much (that thing can't stay on frequency for a second.)  So it's night and day.  Now should I have bought something else for the same price or less?  I considered some entry-level Keysight/Tek generators
Those will certainly behave better! If you need precission time & frequency behaviour, it is going to cost you. My Tektronix AFG31000 series doesn't show such a drift.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline XerXes777

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #376 on: December 13, 2022, 03:24:01 pm »
What is the KEY Word to get the IQ Key?
I use this Script:
I try these words:
IQ, I/Q, IQWAVE, AWG, SDG6000X-IQ, SDG6000XIQ, WAVE
I got the 500M Key its works.

It might be the SKU code here:
https://siglentna.com/product/sdg-6000x-iq-signal-generator-function/

I found a solution.

I made a new Thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-sdg-hack-script/msg4578985/#msg4578985
 
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Offline berke

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #377 on: December 15, 2022, 12:53:24 pm »
Just a quick follow-up on the lag between channels and the SYNC out.

The sync pulse lags by 39.2 ns on average with a periodic variation (as discussed above) that spans 3.5 ns.  The shape of the SYNC pulse is quite ugly, see below.  The sync pulse reaches a peak value of about 4.6 V.
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #378 on: December 15, 2022, 02:07:22 pm »
Just a quick follow-up on the lag between channels and the SYNC out.

The sync pulse lags by 39.2 ns on average with a periodic variation (as discussed above) that spans 3.5 ns.  The shape of the SYNC pulse is quite ugly, see below.  The sync pulse reaches a peak value of about 4.6 V.

Hello,

your post prompted me to go and check...

First, shape of Sync pulse is just fine. You need to use 50Ohm termination for that output.
Then it is decent square pulse.

Take a look at following image in attachment. SDG6000X, 10 MHz, Synch out.
Delay is cca 8ns and jitter between channel (CH1) and Synch (CH3) is 12.6 ps RMS and some 70 ps P-P..
Scope used is SDS2000X HD.

Something is going on. I cannot replicate your finding.. Mind me I'm not saying you're not seeing it, but something is weird..
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 02:14:59 pm by 2N3055 »
 
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Offline berke

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #379 on: December 15, 2022, 02:42:49 pm »
Take a look at following image in attachment. SDG6000X, 10 MHz, Synch out.
Delay is cca 8ns and jitter between channel (CH1) and Synch (CH3) is 12.6 ps RMS and some 70 ps P-P..
Scope used is SDS2000X HD.

Something is going on. I cannot replicate your finding.. Mind me I'm not saying you're not seeing it, but something is weird..
Thanks !  I wasn't using a 50 ohm termination on the sync line, only on the outputs.  I had thought about using it on SYNC/AUX but the manual doesn't say anything and I didn't want to blow up something, you never know.  Since you mentioned it I guessed it's safe and turned it on, the sync pulse looks decent.

Still the same spread but the delay is (understandably) lower, 5.2 to 8.8 ns, mean 7 ns, sigma 0.95 ns.
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #380 on: December 15, 2022, 03:41:38 pm »
Take a look at following image in attachment. SDG6000X, 10 MHz, Synch out.
Delay is cca 8ns and jitter between channel (CH1) and Synch (CH3) is 12.6 ps RMS and some 70 ps P-P..
Scope used is SDS2000X HD.

Something is going on. I cannot replicate your finding.. Mind me I'm not saying you're not seeing it, but something is weird..
Thanks !  I wasn't using a 50 ohm termination on the sync line, only on the outputs.  I had thought about using it on SYNC/AUX but the manual doesn't say anything and I didn't want to blow up something, you never know.  Since you mentioned it I guessed it's safe and turned it on, the sync pulse looks decent.

Still the same spread but the delay is (understandably) lower, 5.2 to 8.8 ns, mean 7 ns, sigma 0.95 ns.

Good, some progress.
What is repetition frequency of the signal?
 

Offline berke

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #381 on: December 15, 2022, 06:39:57 pm »
Good, some progress.
What is repetition frequency of the signal?

You mean the period of delay between SYNC and Ch1?  As noted previously it depends on the frequencies.

I was wondering if dividing down the SYNC could get me a stable signal.  The sync between the channels is not bad, so I did a quick test by setting fCH2 to fCH1/n.  (Later I can try with a divider.)

I'm generating 100 kHz on Ch1 and 20 kHz on Ch2, and SYNC comes from Ch1.  In this case, the Ch1-SYNC delay drifts much more slowly.  It goes from 2.2 ns to 5.7 ns in 165 s in a sawtooth fashion.

Funny thing if I set Ch2 to 100 kHz as well I don't see any drift (within 60 s of observation)!?  Quite weird.  Stay tuned, further tests after dinner!
 

Offline berke

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #382 on: December 15, 2022, 08:54:16 pm »
Here are some new Chan1-SYNC output delay drift results.

I  couldn't get the scope to record the sequence of pulse width measurements but it's a new scope and I'm not familiar with it yet.

As I was watching the measured delay readings I noticed that the behaviour is distinctly non-linear.

I managed to get an approximate recording of the drift by comparing the Ch1 output and the SYNC output with an LVDS receiver and then filtering the output.  The result is not going to be very linear or stable (ringing due to improvised connections etc.) but should be good enough to get the drift period.  Ch1 is set to pulse, 10 MHz, 500 mV, 26 ns width and allegedly 2 ns rise on the Siglent.  SYNC output is connected to IN+ of DS90LT012AQ via 10 dB attenuator, Ch1 output to IN-, receiver output terminated with 50 ohm, RC filtered with 2k2/100n (not selected on purpose) probed with a 1k2/RG58 coax and then filtered with a DC-1.9 MHz Minicircuits filter, and I set the scope BW to 20 MHz for good measure.  It's 5 seconds per division.

The benefit of this last method is that I don't have to worry about the scope trigger frequency aliasing the jitter.
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #383 on: December 16, 2022, 04:51:00 pm »
Question regarding the color of the Channel 1 output on the SDG6000X. On the panel Ch1 color is Blue, Ch2 is Yellow, however on the display Ch1 overlay is Green. Is there a way to change the Ch1 overlay color to Blue?

One the SDG2000X Ch1 panel is Green and the display overlay is Green.

Best,
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Offline berke

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #384 on: December 16, 2022, 04:58:08 pm »
Question regarding the color of the Channel 1 output on the SDG6000X. On the panel Ch1 color is Blue, Ch2 is Yellow, however on the display Ch1 overlay is Green. Is there a way to change the Ch1 overlay color to Blue?

Hi,

Just go to Utility → System → Page 2 → UI Style and select "Classical".
 
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Offline strahd_von_zarovich

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #385 on: December 19, 2022, 09:12:33 am »
Hi everyone,
Is there anyone who face with the problem of not being able to enable DHCP? Here is the video:

 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #386 on: December 19, 2022, 11:12:59 pm »
It is likely trying to get a DHCP lease. That seems to fail within a timeout so it disables again.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #387 on: December 28, 2022, 08:16:15 pm »
Hello everyone,

I think I found a bug in firmware 6.01.01.36R3 on the SDG6022X:

I have the SDG and the frequency counter FCA3000 both attached to the Leo Bodnar GPSDO. With the previous version of the firmware, the SDG6022 was synchronized to the GPSDO after switching on.

With the current firmware, however, the internal clock is active after switching on, although the SDG shows the external clock as selected in the setup. This is only noticeable if you also check the frequency with the frequency counter.

Can other SDG owners also confirm this?

Many greetings
Detlev
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Offline oz2cpu

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #388 on: January 01, 2023, 03:34:03 pm »
did anyone make their own 2D (stereo) files, and then upload to the SDG6022X
lt is very easy to do when it is a normal single channel file, But
lets say we want to make grafix on a scope in XY mode, but like to manually plot our own lines,
that is why we need to undersand how to make a 2ch file.
Radioamateur OZ2CPU, Senior EE at Prevas
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Offline berke

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #389 on: January 26, 2023, 10:39:54 pm »
did anyone make their own 2D (stereo) files, and then upload to the SDG6022X
lt is very easy to do when it is a normal single channel file, But
lets say we want to make grafix on a scope in XY mode, but like to manually plot our own lines,
No and I'd like to know.  The manual doesn't say anything, and I don't feel like running some weird Windows executable on my machine.
However you can generate separate channels for the CSV's and it works pretty well.

(No Z-axis?  No problem.)

91 MSa/s, TrueArb
 
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Offline berke

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #390 on: February 10, 2023, 06:08:48 pm »
I ran into some other annoyances, apologies if they have been already mentioned.

1. While generating a square or pulse signal, if you change the duty cycle, the signal goes through zero for a few ms.

I then tried to modulate the PWM on CH1 from CH2.  Modulating with a sine wave gives a smoothly varying input, so that's good, but I wanted to switch between two levels manually, which brings to the next point.

2. You can't modulate using the "constant DC" output.  (In the end I used a pulse waveform on CH2 using burst mode, manually triggered.)

3. Another thing that is really annoying is that you can't set the duty cycle to 0 or 100% in square or pulse modes, you get an annoying beep.

4. Unless you turn it very slowly, the rotary encoder misses pulses.  How hard is it to count pulses ?

5. Not a big deal, but it would be nice if you could set Vlo > Vhi for "inverted polarity" PWM generation.

6. Also, is this thing supposed to remember its settings across power cycles ?  Every time I power it up, I have to set the voltage range to 0-3.3 V from -2 to +2 V.  Thankfully I haven't fried anything yet but it may happen one day.
 

Online Detlev

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #391 on: April 04, 2023, 03:37:35 pm »
I did some measurements on the AWG today. It's a SDG6022X with no improvements :)
The level was always -10dBm and the reference clock came from the internal oscillator. I adjusted this two weeks ago and today I had a deviation of 40ppb compared to my Leo GPSDO.

I'll let the measurements speak for themselves, the parameters can be seen on the screenshots. I hope it is of interest to you.

Your
Detlev
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #392 on: April 04, 2023, 05:27:07 pm »
I just saw that the phase noise markers are a bit shifted, sorry for that
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #393 on: April 04, 2023, 06:38:03 pm »
Close enough :-+

Impressive AWG performance!!

If you have access to the little brother SDG2000X, might be interesting in how well it behaves ::)

Best,
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #394 on: April 04, 2023, 06:47:21 pm »
Unfortunately, I don't have access to the SDG2000X, so I can't make any comparisons here
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #395 on: April 05, 2023, 01:39:50 pm »
I just saw that the phase noise markers are a bit shifted, sorry for that

Would be nice to do some FM/PM modulation graphs as using 10MHz and square waves.

While on SDG2K even latest FW is in question, as Siglent claimed to have fixed the square wave modulation on a later SDG6K FW too.

PM me if you need the used settings as low deviation factors used.

Hp
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #396 on: April 06, 2023, 06:45:42 pm »
Quote
Would be nice to do some FM/PM modulation graphs as using 10MHz and square waves.

While on SDG2K even latest FW is in question, as Siglent claimed to have fixed the square wave modulation on a later SDG6K FW too.

PM me if you need the used settings as low deviation factors used.

Hp

If you can specify more parameters, then I can see what I can do (FM frequncy, frequency deviation)
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #397 on: April 06, 2023, 07:18:48 pm »
If you can specify more parameters, then I can see what I can do (FM frequncy, frequency deviation)

See my old post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2000x-firmware-hardware-software-versions/msg4574719/#msg4574719

SDG Generator setup:
- Square +510mV -510mV
- Spectrum 0dBm as 20dB attenuation, 1Hz BW, 2.5kHz / 500Hz Span

SDG:

FM: 10MHz, Square, 500Hz 105mHz expected side peaks at -80dB

PM: 10MHz, Square, 500Hz 0.014°, expected side peaks at -80dB

Just a first measurement request...

Hp
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #398 on: April 07, 2023, 03:30:51 pm »
I took two measurements here. If the carrier is a rectangle, I don't see any sidebands. Therefore, here carrier with sine and modulation with square. Above in the screenshot are the parameters.

If you want, I can do more measurements, the devices have warmed up  :)
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #399 on: April 07, 2023, 06:26:40 pm »
I took two measurements here. If the carrier is a rectangle, I don't see any sidebands. Therefore, here carrier with sine and modulation with square. Above in the screenshot are the parameters.

If you want, I can do more measurements, the devices have warmed up  :)

Well, "Wer mist, mist Mist"  :-DD

I mean, the R&S is in noise figures any better than the used SSA2K plus, also the close in noise figures any different.

IMHO, best would be to generate the signals as using LTSpice/Matlab or else and measure the real expected modulation peaks. To build a table with various figures and modulation frequency else than 500Hz as may 100, 200, 500, 1000 Hz with various deviations.

Else is fishing on the dark moon site.  |O

As models from R&S & KS & Tektronix & Siglent & Rigols with may any different values. But for sure the SDG2K & SDG6K.

Hp


 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #400 on: April 07, 2023, 07:17:49 pm »
I mean, the R&S is in noise figures any better than the used SSA2K plus, also the close in noise figures any different.

can you say 100% that it is the spectrum analyzer or could it also be the SDG?
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #401 on: April 07, 2023, 08:22:13 pm »
I mean, the R&S is in noise figures any better than the used SSA2K plus, also the close in noise figures any different.

can you say 100% that it is the spectrum analyzer or could it also be the SDG?

The Siglent SSA has this limitations, even you connect an 10MHz OXCO as a reference, the used build in freq. synthesizer as walking with close-in spurs variations, do not gets any better. Already posted SSA results on this forum.

In other words, getting what you payed for... as it goes for the the SSA & SDG2K. So my interest are on SDG6K and SDG7K how they performs.

So my current conclusion is now, building a table by simulations and than compare the results with the HW gears.

Hp

 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #402 on: April 07, 2023, 08:40:20 pm »
What do you need to see chaps ?
SDG6022X and analysers to 8.5 GHz here.
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Online Detlev

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #403 on: April 08, 2023, 09:24:59 am »
I mean, the R&S is in noise figures any better than the used SSA2K plus, also the close in noise figures any different.

I'm not sure what you're getting at in the discussion right now. Regarding the phase noise, I posted a screenshot above, attached again here. that with a pure sine without modulation.
You can also do this with the SSA2K plus, then we would have a comparison between the SDG6022X with the R&S FPL and the SDG2000X and the SSA2K plus.

What is wrong with the modulation for you, do you have concrete examples of what you would expect? Maybe it's me that I just don't understand you :)

Greetings and Happy Easter
Detlev
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #404 on: April 08, 2023, 02:41:04 pm »
You can also do this with the SSA2K plus, then we would have a comparison between the SDG6022X with the R&S FPL and the SDG2000X and the SSA2K plus.

What is wrong with the modulation for you, do you have concrete examples of what you would expect? Maybe it's me that I just don't understand you :)

Greetings and Happy Easter
Detlev

Look, I did many measurements using SSA2K Plus and SDG2K and a KS AWG. Also source from 10MHz Sine OXCO as -120dbc@1Hz. Complained Siglent about false Square wave FM & PM. At the end even the new FM & PM is in questions. So I asked for your SDG6K figures and they differ from my KS measurements.

The basic question is how the made the Square wave ... by math or using a sine to square wave circuit.

In addition the performance of the SSA is important, as low PN & Jitter & close-in noise & other spurs & low over all noise contributions.

I come now to the conclusions about the FM / PM as sine & square waves, just at first, to simulate various with high floating point precision as may the precision on the HW gear is may the limited factor.

My 2 cents

Hp


 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #405 on: April 08, 2023, 03:26:52 pm »
If they differ from your KS measurements, how would you rate that? Good, bad, or just different? I find such discussions very interesting.

The FPL1000 has a phase noise of -105dBc (-108dBc typ.) at 1GHz/10kHz. At 1Mhz/100Hz it is better at -124dBc and at 1MHz/1kHz at around -132dBc. That's why I made my measurement at 1MHz.

At 10MHz and 100Hz offset it should be around -115 to -120dBc, that can only be estimated from the data sheet. These are values from the data sheet and are therefore better than the Siglent SAs.

Don't confuse the FPL1000 with the FPC1500, which has already been discussed here in the forum. I would also like an even better phase noise, but I didn't want to sell my house for an SA :)

I personally think the SDG6022X is very good for the price. A comparison with KS using specific examples would be nice.

Best regards
Detlev
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Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #406 on: April 08, 2023, 04:38:01 pm »
If they differ from your KS measurements, how would you rate that? Good, bad, or just different? I find such discussions very interesting.

A comparison with KS using specific examples would be nice.

As it gets now, any different  :palm:

So first to do the homework with math and see about the beef... as looking about a dog  :-DD

As with egg and hen questions, as some did forget the rooster as only with them gets any valued eggs.

Hp
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #407 on: April 08, 2023, 05:06:10 pm »
You can also do this with the SSA2K plus, then we would have a comparison between the SDG6022X with the R&S FPL and the SDG2000X and the SSA2K plus.

What is wrong with the modulation for you, do you have concrete examples of what you would expect? Maybe it's me that I just don't understand you :)

Greetings and Happy Easter
Detlev

Look, I did many measurements using SSA2K Plus and SDG2K and a KS AWG. Also source from 10MHz Sine OXCO as -120dbc@1Hz. Complained Siglent about false Square wave FM & PM. At the end even the new FM & PM is in questions. So I asked for your SDG6K figures and they differ from my KS measurements.

The basic question is how the made the Square wave ... by math or using a sine to square wave circuit.

In addition the performance of the SSA is important, as low PN & Jitter & close-in noise & other spurs & low over all noise contributions.

I come now to the conclusions about the FM / PM as sine & square waves, just at first, to simulate various with high floating point precision as may the precision on the HW gear is may the limited factor.

My 2 cents

Hp

Again you are on your crusade to prove something (which is ok as a principle) but nobody understands what exactly you are trying to say.
Sorry, I'm just being honest and a bit direct.

As to answer to one of your questions I understand, both Keysight you are mentioning and Siglent AWG in question are AWG: Arbitrary waveform generators, that numerically construct signals from clocked digital values through ADC   DAC  to output amplifier. They are not modulated physical sources (like VCOs, disciplined or not) or pulse forming sources that form output signals through physical pulse forming networks...
« Last Edit: April 08, 2023, 11:37:00 pm by 2N3055 »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #408 on: April 08, 2023, 05:06:57 pm »
If they differ from your KS measurements, how would you rate that? Good, bad, or just different? I find such discussions very interesting.

A comparison with KS using specific examples would be nice.

As it gets now, any different  :palm:

So first to do the homework with math and see about the beef... as looking about a dog  :-DD

As with egg and hen questions, as some did forget the rooster as only with them gets any valued eggs.

Hp

I don't get the whole animal farm thing... :-//
 

Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #409 on: April 08, 2023, 09:23:24 pm »
Again you are on your crusade to prove something (which is ok as a principle) but nobody understands what exactly you are trying to say.
Sorry, I'm just being honest and a bit direct.

As to answer to one of your questions I understand, both Keysight you are mentioning and Siglent AWG in question are AWG: Arbitrary waveform generators, that numerically construct signals from clocked digital values through ADC to output amplifier. They are not modulated physical sources (like VCOs, disciplined or not) or pulse forming sources that form output signals through physical pulse forming networks...

You mean DAC or not?

1) The AWG needs some math functions to fill up the internal buffer based on the user setup.
   Than this buffer is played in a cycle. Or they calculate the sample word on runtime, but I guess not.

2) How they build the FM/PM is for me unknown. As for sine, there exit clear math formulas.

3) For the square wave FM/PM the formulas are currently unknown to me. Or they use Sine FM/PM modulation and than convert to Square wave using any converter.

4) To compare each gear ends in a disaster...

5) better is to simulate first and compare the results (= the reference) with the various gear.

my 2 cents
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #410 on: April 08, 2023, 10:43:31 pm »
I guess the actual question is: how do you know the generator is calculating the waveforms correctly? From my experience with the SDG2000 series generator and judging from this thread, Siglent doesn't know the answer to this question for their own gear so it would be nice to be able to check for yourself what formulas are being used and which rounding errors there are.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2023, 10:46:51 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #411 on: April 09, 2023, 10:56:28 am »
A bit off-topic, but I thought it would be interesting how this spectrum and distortion compares to old-school instruments: HP 3326A and HP 89410A. It's not so bad, the harmonic and intermodulation distortions are much better, that is what HP3326 is designed for. The close-in phase noise is also better, while wideband noise is somewhat worse, about -114dBc/Hz (partly limited by 89410). HP3326 can of course do phase modulation of the square wave since it is generated from a sine.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2023, 02:48:18 am by maxwell3e10 »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #412 on: April 09, 2023, 11:14:15 am »
Hello everyone,

Today I did an FM modulation with a 100Hz sine wave. First I looked at what sidebands I would expect. To do this, I used the Bessel calculator

https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1180573474

assumed a modulation index of 0.01 and read the values for the 1-4 harmonics and converted them to dB.

So I have the following starting values:
Carrier: 10MHz / 0dBm
FM Frequency:  sine 100Hz
frequency Dev.: 1Hz
Mod index: 0.01

Expected amplitudes:
1. 0dBm
2. -46.02dB
3. -98.06dB
4. -153dB

Measured amplitudes:
1. -0.33dBm
2. -46.08dB
3. -98.12dB
4. gets lost in the noise

I think the SDG6022X is doing very well here.

Attached are the unmodulated and modulated measurements and a photo of the settings of the SGD6022X

have a nice day
Detlev
« Last Edit: April 09, 2023, 11:28:46 am by Detlev »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #413 on: April 12, 2023, 08:36:49 pm »
Hi guys,

today I started with the modulation with a square wave. The parameters are identical to those of the sine modulation.

What would I expect?

If you now modulate with the square wave, then you modulate, if you use Fourier, with the fundamental wave and then with the harmonics of the square wave.

So I would await for the values of the fundamental from above and additionally the value of the 3rd harmonic of the square wave (I restrict to the 3rd harmonic since the next one would no longer be in the spectrum).

the 3rd harmonic is at 300Hz and has 1/3 of the amplitude of the fundamental of the square wave.

I enter this into the Bessel Calculator and get:

Order: 1
Initial value: 0
Increments: 0.0033333
Jv(x): 0.001666647685

with 1/3 the amplitude you get an amplitude of 1/3 Jv(x) and then you get 0.55555 x10^-3

Then convert to dB:
20log(0.55555x10^-3)= -65.11dB

So I would expect:

1. 0dBm
2. -46.08dB
3. -98.12dB
4. -65.11dB

Measured amplitudes:

1. 0.02dBm
2. -43.96dB
3. -92.67dB
4. -63.14dB

Here the measured values deviate from the expected ones. All of them are a bit too high.

If someone has an explanation for this, I would be very grateful. It's also possible that I've made a mistake in my reasoning, but I'm relatively sure that it fits.

It seems that the SDG does not calculate exactly during modulation and only interpolates with sufficient accuracy. This fits with sine but no longer exactly with square.

Attached is a photo of the SDG settings and a screenshot of the spectrum.

Greetings and good night
Detlev
« Last Edit: April 12, 2023, 09:23:54 pm by Detlev »
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Offline gf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #414 on: April 12, 2023, 11:39:52 pm »
The FFT spectrum of a numerically simulated FM gives me numbers close to your measured values.
(Used only a 10kHz carrier for convenience, but the result can be shifted to any other carrier frequency)

Code: [Select]
fc = 10000    % carrier freq Hz (sine wave)
df = 1        % deviation Hz
fs = 100000   % sample rate Sa/s
fmod = 100
dp1 = 2*pi*(fc+df)/fs   % phase increment per sample for fc+df
dp2 = 2*pi*(fc-df)/fs   % phase increment per sample for fc-df
dp = [ones(1,fs/2/fmod)*dp1 ones(1,fs/2/fmod)*dp2];
dp = repmat(dp, 1, 10);
signal = sin(cumsum(dp));
% place frequency scale origin at fc
plot((0:length(signal)-1)*fs/length(signal)-fc,20*log10(abs(fft(signal)/length(signal)*2)))
grid on
ylim([-100 0])
xlim([-2000 2000])
« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 06:22:13 am by gf »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #415 on: April 13, 2023, 06:36:31 am »
Then I'm probably not quite right with my approach of looking at the fundamental wave of the square-wave signal and its 3rd harmonic separately.

Do you also have decimal values of the simulation?

Unfortunately I don't have a way to simulate this
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Offline gf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #416 on: April 13, 2023, 07:18:31 am »
Then I'm probably not quite right with my approach of looking at the fundamental wave of the square-wave signal and its 3rd harmonic separately.

Do you also have decimal values of the simulation?

Peaks:

0: -3.5717e-04
100: -43.922
200: -92.042
300: -63.006
400: -104.09
500: -71.875
600: -111.13
700: -77.713
800: -116.14
900: -82.069
1000: -120.02
...

Quote
Unfortunately I don't have a way to simulate this

GNU Octave?
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #417 on: April 13, 2023, 07:40:09 am »
Your simulation matches my measurements perfectly. Thanks for the simulation.   :-+

Then the SDG6022X calculates correctly.

I didn't know GNU Octave until now. Let's see if I can figure it out. I haven't been in this area yet.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #418 on: April 13, 2023, 10:37:05 am »
Peaks:

0:     -3.5717e-04
100: -43.922
200: -92.042
300: -63.006
400: -104.09
500: -71.875
600: -111.13
700: -77.713
800: -116.14
900: -82.069
1000: -120.02

I extended the measurement to the 11th harmonic and the values match your simulation almost perfectly :)

I lowered the carrier frequency to 1MHz because the setup is a little less noisy and you can see low values better. The screenshot is attached.

The SDG6022X shows its sunny side :)

It's great to see that the simulation goes so well with the measurement :)

Now it would be interesting to see comparative values to other AWGs.

I wish you a nice day
Detlev
« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 10:43:37 am by Detlev »
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #419 on: April 13, 2023, 10:41:27 am »
It's great to see that the simulation goes so well with the measurement :)

Almost too good to be true!
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #420 on: April 13, 2023, 02:39:25 pm »
Almost too good to be true!

The structure consists only of the Siglent SDG6022X, the Rohde & Schwarz FPL1000 and the Sucotest cable.

There's not much that can go wrong    :)
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #421 on: April 13, 2023, 04:16:10 pm »
It seems these SDG6000X AWGs are pretty good as shown in images #29 and #30.

Same goes for the little brother SDG2000X AWG as shown in #31 screen image.

Results are from a SSA3021X Plus, certainly not in the same class as the R&S FLP1000, but still respectable.

Edit: Added Image #32 which is for the SDG2000X AWG at 10MHz.

Best,
« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 05:32:53 pm by mawyatt »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #422 on: April 13, 2023, 06:13:36 pm »
It seems these SDG6000X AWGs are pretty good as shown in images #29 and #30.

Same goes for the little brother SDG2000X AWG as shown in #31 screen image.

Results are from a SSA3021X Plus, certainly not in the same class as the R&S FLP1000, but still respectable.

Edit: Added Image #32 which is for the SDG2000X AWG at 10MHz.

Best,

Thanks for your measurements. You confirm the simulation and also my measurements.

Siglent did a good job there.

Your measurements are also interesting for me because they give me a comparison between the FPL1000 and the SSA3021X. I also shortlisted the SSA3021X. In the end, it ended up being the FPL1000, which gave me many sleepless nights  ;)  :D   I don't always spend so much money on a measuring device  ;)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 06:17:48 pm by Detlev »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #423 on: April 13, 2023, 09:29:57 pm »
It seems these SDG6000X AWGs are pretty good as shown in images #29 and #30.

Same goes for the little brother SDG2000X AWG as shown in #31 screen image.

Results are from a SSA3021X Plus, certainly not in the same class as the R&S FLP1000, but still respectable.

Edit: Added Image #32 which is for the SDG2000X AWG at 10MHz.

Best,

Thanks for your measurements. You confirm the simulation and also my measurements.

Siglent did a good job there.

Your measurements are also interesting for me because they give me a comparison between the FPL1000 and the SSA3021X. I also shortlisted the SSA3021X. In the end, it ended up being the FPL1000, which gave me many sleepless nights  ;)  :D   I don't always spend so much money on a measuring device  ;)
Please ensure you select the Plus version.....more features, later improved UI and touch screen and mouse support for just a few $ more.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #424 on: April 14, 2023, 07:37:52 am »
Customer wanted to see the performance boundaries of SDG6022X in Pulse mode.....things get hard to nicely capture at mV levels with noise mucking with the frequency counter.....it's @ 80 MHz like the 1V p-p pulse shows.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2023, 09:53:10 am by tautech »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #425 on: April 18, 2023, 09:41:35 am »
Hi guys,

I had made measurements of the FM for HPW, and I noticed a very strange behavior of the SDG6022X.

Initial values:

Modulation: PM
Carrier: square wave 10MHz
Modulation: 1 degree
Modulation frequency: sine 100Hz
Level: 0dBm

See also attached photo of SDG6022X.

Situation: about 60 seconds after switching on channel 1, the spectrum changes and then stays that way. If I now switch on channel 2, the spectrum is normal again. That again for about 60 seconds. (Nothing is connected to channel 2)
This is independent of whether the channels are phase-locked or not.

I have attached two screenshots of the SA with the spectrum which is OK and then another spectrum which is weird after 60 seconds.
And I've tried attaching a video showing the behavior, but it doesn't work.

Does anyone have an explanation for this or is it an error in the modulation of the SDG6022X?

Have a nice day
Detlev
« Last Edit: April 18, 2023, 10:37:56 am by Detlev »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #426 on: April 18, 2023, 10:31:33 am »
Is the modulation signal a square wave, too, or a sine wave?
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #427 on: April 18, 2023, 10:37:25 am »
I modulated with 100Hz sine (I just added it above)
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #428 on: April 18, 2023, 10:44:22 am »
Looks like FFT analyser mode with Harmonics turned to ON in the AWG.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #429 on: April 18, 2023, 10:54:49 am »
Looks like FFT analyser mode with Harmonics turned to ON in the AWG.

I am not aware that I have changed something in the SDG6022X. Where can I find this?

Then another question, why after 60-65 seconds?
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #430 on: April 18, 2023, 11:48:37 am »
How does the same modulation look with a sine wave carrier?
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #431 on: April 18, 2023, 12:11:11 pm »
clean, anytime. I've also tested with sine/rectangle modulated carrier and have never had any problems here.

This from above is always reproducible
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #432 on: April 18, 2023, 12:57:29 pm »
PM with sine carrier looks plausible. With the square wave, both images look IMO strange.
How does the PM modulated square wave spectrum look over the full 0...Nyquist (150MHz?) span?
Edit: Sorry, it's a 6000, then Nyquist is higher.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2023, 01:03:26 pm by gf »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #433 on: April 18, 2023, 01:11:29 pm »
PM with sine carrier looks plausible. With the square wave, both images look IMO strange.
How does the PM modulated square wave spectrum look over the full 0...Nyquist (150MHz?) span?
Edit: Sorry, it's a 6000, then Nyquist is higher.

Important to not mix FM & PM behavior(s) of the Siglent... my SDG2082x is even worst on SWPM (Square Wave Phase Modulation)

So currently on Octave :palm: as it is not my friend. As a simple sine/square FM/PM 10MHz at Sine 100Hz 1Hz/1° ...
Octave to get an other independent result for my reference table.

See below as 10MHz SWPM, Sine 100Hz, 1°  :-DD .... and if 10MHz Carrier as 28Hz lower any different  :palm:

BTW: As I can tell the KS Company did there own homework...  :-+

« Last Edit: April 18, 2023, 01:14:10 pm by hpw »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #434 on: April 18, 2023, 01:37:19 pm »
I have extended the spectrum to 1.5GHz
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #435 on: April 18, 2023, 02:04:05 pm »
and here the spectrum square wave 10MHz unmodulated
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #436 on: April 18, 2023, 05:42:05 pm »
In the large scale, the modulated spectrum looks actually plaussible up to ~500MHz.
Don't know what's the "real" sample rate? 1200 or 2400 MSa/s?
If it is 1200, then the cut-off beyond 500 MHz is to be expected, and about -34dBc at 500 Mhz is expected too, for a 10 MHz square wave.

The unmodulated spectrum does not look like a square wave spectrum, but it lacks high-frequency contents.
Were different rise/fall times configured for the modulated and unmodulated test case?
Maybe you can check the waveforms and the rise times with a scope?

There are even carrier harmonics present, which are unexpected for a square wave. However their amplitudes are relatively low.



Please find attached the spectrum I would expect for a 10 MHz square wave, properly band-limited to 480 MHz (=> -120dBc at 600 MHz), and then PM-modulated with 1° deviation and a 1kHz sine wave signal. Sorry can't use 100 Hz, as this would require 10x more samples, and Gnuplots runs out of memory then. For the same reason I also can't use a smaller RBW, therefore the lobes in the zoom-in images are pretty wide. But each lobe represents just a single frequency line, not a spread spectrum.



EDIT: Updated images. Noticed that the given frequency plan allows a rectangular window w/o introducing leakage. This enables a narrower RBW for the spectrum plot.
EDIT: Added script which generates the plot
EDIT: 2023-04-27 Did a couple of script enhancements
    - square wave edges can be shaped according to given rise time and shaping method
    - alternative band-limiting methods (FIR requires too many taps)
    - minimize required FFT resolution and size
    - plot the (rise/fall-time adjusted and bandwidth limited) wavetable which is then re-sampled via DDS
    - find and print peaks



Code: [Select]
pkg load signal
more off

k = 1000
M = 1E6

fc = 10*M           % carrier freq [Hz]
waveform = "square" % square/sine
edges = "gaussian"  % gaussian/sinc/sinc2/sinc3 (only for square wave)
risetime = 0        % risetime [s] (only for square wave)
%risetime = 2e-9    % SDG6000X ?
%risetime = 8.4e-9  % SDG2000X ?

modulation = "PM"   % FM/PM/none
fmod = 1*k          % modulating signal (sine) frequency [Hz]
df = 1              % FM frequency deviation [Hz]
dp = 1              % PM phase deviation [degrees]

fs = 1200*M         % DDS sample rate [Sa/s]
%fs = 300*M         % DDS sample rate [Sa/s]
bandlimit = "RC"    % RC/brickwall/FIR
BW = 0.4*fs         % must be < 0.5*fs (for RC and FIR)
ndds = 4*1024*1024  % wavetable size

%-------------------------------------------------------------

% Find reasonable binsize and fftsize
% Try to use wider bins and rectangular window if possible
% without leakage, use narrower bins and Kaiser window otherwise.
% Quantiize frequencies to fix floating point inaccuracies.
fs = floor(fs*1024+0.5)/1024;
fc = floor(fc*1024+0.5)/1024;
fmod = floor(fmod*1024+0.5)/1024;
if mod(2*fc,fmod) == 0 && mod(2*fs,fmod) == 0
  binsize = fmod/2
  fftsize = 2*fs/fmod
  window = "rect"
  RBW_3dB = 0.88*binsize
else
  fftsize = floor(10*fs/fmod+0.5)
  binsize = fs/fftsize
  window = "kaiser"
  RBW_3dB = 2.24*binsize
end

% waveform prototype, amplitude 1 units peak
if strcmp(waveform,"square")
  wavetable = [-ones(1,ndds/2) ones(1,ndds/2)] * sqrt(0.5);
elseif strcmp(waveform,"sine")
  wavetable = sin([0:ndds-1]*(2*pi/ndds));
else
  error ("Illegal waveform");
end

% edge shaping for square wave
shaper = [ 1 zeros(1,ndds-1) ];
if strcmp(waveform,"square") && risetime > 0
  if strcmp(edges,"gaussian")
    % Gaussian shaper (80% center quantile is 1.2816*sigma)
    shaper = ifftshift(gausswin(ndds,1.2816/fc/risetime)');
  elseif strcmp(edges,"sinc")
    % sinc shaper (moving average)
    shaper = ones(1,floor(1.25*risetime*fc*ndds));
    shaper = [ shaper zeros(1,ndds-length(shaper)) ];
  elseif strcmp(edges,"sinc2")
    % sinc^2 shaper
    shaper = ones(1,floor(0.905*risetime*fc*ndds));
    shaper = fftconv(shaper,shaper);
    shaper = [ shaper zeros(1,ndds-length(shaper)) ];
  elseif strcmp(edges,"sinc3")
    % sinc^3 shaper
    shaper = ones(1,floor(0.76*risetime*fc*ndds));
    shaper = fftconv(fftconv(shaper,shaper),shaper);
    shaper = [ shaper zeros(1,ndds-length(shaper)) ];
  else
    error ("Illegal shaper");
  end
  shaper /= sum(shaper);
else
  shaper = [ 1 zeros(1,ndds-1) ];
end

% band-limit samples in wavetable and apply shaper
if strcmp(bandlimit,"RC")
  % apply raised cosine roll-off BW...0.5*fs
  low = BW/fc;
  high = 0.5*fs/fc;
  idx = [ceil(low):1:floor(high)];
  WT = fft(wavetable).*fft(shaper);
  WT(idx) .*= cos((idx-low)/(high-low)*pi/2);
  WT(ceil(high)+1:end-ceil(high)) = 0;
  WT(ndds/2+2:end) = conj(fliplr(WT(2:ndds/2)));
  wavetable = real(ifft(WT));
elseif strcmp(bandlimit,"brickwall")
  % apply ideal brickwall at Nyquist
  keep = floor(0.5*fs/fc);
  WT = fft(wavetable).*fft(shaper);
  WT(keep+1:end-keep) = 0;
  wavetable = real(ifft(WT));
elseif strcmp(bandlimit,"FIR")
  % FIR filter with BW...0.5*fs transition
  % band and 120dB stopband attenuation
  [n,Wn,beta,ftype] = kaiserord([BW/ndds/fc 0.5*fs/ndds/fc], [1 0],  [0.001 0.000001], 1);
  if n+1>ndds
    error("Too many filter taps required, choose a different 'bandlimit' method")
  end
  taps = fir1(n,Wn,ftype,kaiser(n+1,beta),'noscale');
  taps = [ taps zeros(1,ndds-length(taps)) ];
  wavetable = real(ifft(fft(wavetable).*fft(taps).*fft(shaper)));
else
  error("Illegal bandlimiting method")
end

% modulation signal (sine)
mod_signal = sin(2*pi*fmod*[0:fs/fmod-1]/fs);
mod_signal = repmat(mod_signal,1,ceil(fftsize/length(mod_signal)))(1:fftsize);

% generate modulated carrier via DDS
if strcmp(modulation,"FM")
  phases = cumsum(ndds/fs*(fc+mod_signal*df));
elseif strcmp(modulation,"PM")
  phases = [0:length(mod_signal)-1]*ndds/fs*fc + mod_signal*ndds*dp/360;
elseif strcmp(modulation,"none")
  phases = [0:length(mod_signal)-1]*(fs*fc/ndds);
else
  error("Illegal modulation")
end
signal = wavetable(1+floor(mod(phases + ndds, ndds)));

% 16-bit quantization
%signal = floor(signal * 32768 + 0.5) / 32768;

% 14-bit quantization
%signal = floor(signal * 8192 + 0.5) / 8192;

% 14-bit quantization + random noise
%signal = floor(signal * 8192 + 0.5 + 0.5*randn(1,length(signal))) / 8192;

% Window function for FFT
if strcmp(window,"kaiser")
  w = kaiser(length(signal)+1,17)(1:end-1)';
else
  w = ones(1, length(signal));
end
w /= mean(w);

% plot spectrum
frequencies = [0:length(signal)-1]*fs/length(signal);
magnitude = abs(fft(signal.*w)/length(signal)*2);
figure 1
clf
plot(frequencies/M,20*log10(magnitude+1e-12))
grid on
title(sprintf("%s, deviation %g°, fc=%gMHz (square), fmod=%gkHz (sine)", modulation, dp, fc/M, fmod/k))
xlabel("MHz")
ylim([-100 5])
xlim([0 0.5*fs/M])
%xlim([10-0.007 10+0.007])    % zoom-in to 10MHz
%xlim([450-0.007 450+0.007])  % zoom-in 450 MHz

% plot wavetable
figure 2
clf
plot([0:ndds-1]/(fc*ndds*1e-9),wavetable)
title("Wavetable")
xlabel("ns")
grid on

% find and print peaks > -120dB
idx = 2:length(signal)/2-1;
peaks = find(frequencies(idx)<=BW &
             magnitude(idx)>1e-6 &
             magnitude(idx)>magnitude(idx-1) &
             magnitude(idx)>magnitude(idx+1)) + 1;
for f = peaks
  printf("peak: %10.6f MHz: %6.1f dB\n",frequencies(f)/M,20*log10(magnitude(f)+1e-12));
end
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 08:34:49 am by gf »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #437 on: April 18, 2023, 06:12:07 pm »
It's the SDG6022X,  200MHz / 2.4GSa/s

I've attached a screenshot of the unmodulated square wave. SDG to RTB with 50 Ohm termination

I can also make the spectra the same again with a 1kHz modulation
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #438 on: April 18, 2023, 06:33:58 pm »
Here again the spectra with 1kHz sine modulation at the 10MHz square wave carrier

Here, too, the additional spectral lines appear after around 60s.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #439 on: April 18, 2023, 07:06:53 pm »
It's the SDG6022X,  200MHz / 2.4GSa/s

I've attached a screenshot of the unmodulated square wave. SDG to RTB with 50 Ohm termination

I can also make the spectra the same again with a 1kHz modulation

somehow the forum messed up the picture, I'll upload it again tomorrow
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #440 on: April 19, 2023, 07:14:21 am »
It's the SDG6022X,  200MHz / 2.4GSa/s

I've attached a screenshot of the unmodulated square wave. SDG to RTB with 50 Ohm termination

I can also make the spectra the same again with a 1kHz modulation

here hopefully with the correct picture
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Offline gf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #441 on: April 19, 2023, 10:16:55 am »
Here again the spectra with 1kHz sine modulation at the 10MHz square wave carrier

Both don't look correct. IMO the sidebands below and above the 10MHz fundamental should look the same as with a 10MHz sine wave carrier PM-modulated with 1kHz sine (at least as long as the deviation and modulation frequency are low enough, so that the side bands of the square wave harmonics don't overlap - which is granted with the given frequency plan).
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #442 on: April 19, 2023, 10:27:32 am »
Here again the spectra with 1kHz sine modulation at the 10MHz square wave carrier

Both don't look correct. IMO the sidebands below and above the 10MHz fundamental should look the same as with a 10MHz sine wave carrier PM-modulated with 1kHz sine (at least as long as the deviation and modulation frequency are low enough, so that the side bands of the square wave harmonics don't overlap - which is granted with the given frequency plan).

The second spectrum is definitely broken. That only occurs after the delay and this is where the SDG6022X has a problem.

The first would be interesting to simulate. I'm in the process of getting used to Octave.
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #443 on: April 19, 2023, 10:47:19 am »
I once tried to upload a video of this problem to Youtube. Here you can see how the spectrum changes without doing anything and after activating the second channel, everything is ok again... for around 60 seconds

EDIT: Remove the link to the Video. Reason: The Problem ist solved in the Firmware V6.01.01.36R3
« Last Edit: April 21, 2023, 02:59:14 pm by Detlev »
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Offline gf

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #444 on: April 19, 2023, 10:57:09 am »
The first would be interesting to simulate. I'm in the process of getting used to Octave.

See plots in this earlier message.
If you want I can also attach the script which generated the plot. Eventually I went the simple DDS way, but used enough resolution and a big wavetable to keep DDS spurs below -130dBc, and the square wave gets properly band-limited with -120dB stop band attenuation at Nyquist, so that the DDS re-sampling does not noticeably suffer from aliasing.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 10:59:05 am by gf »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #445 on: April 19, 2023, 11:01:14 am »
very happy, then I have more to open in Octave  :)
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #446 on: April 19, 2023, 12:38:03 pm »
Added the script to this message.
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #447 on: April 21, 2023, 02:57:24 pm »
Hello everyone,

good news on the SDG6022X. Today I installed the current firmware (V6.01.01.36R3) and the problems with the modulation are fixed (bevore the 6.01.01.36 was installed).

So far I had avoided this firmware version because there is a problem with the external reference. When the AWG is turned on, the setting that the external reference is active is lost.

It says in the release notes

Quote from: Siglent SDG6000X Release Notes
Fixed bug in FM modulation on square waveform

and that made me curious. Now it looks much better and the problem that the spectrum changes after 60 seconds has been fixed.

Since the frequency of the generator is now adjusted, I can live with the fact that the external reference is not active after switching on.

Greetings and a nice Weekend
Detlev
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #448 on: May 11, 2023, 02:57:25 pm »
Since Siglent has improved the phase noise of the external reference in the new firmware 6.01.01.36R3, I measured the phase noise again here.

I made one measurement with the internal reference and one measurement with the external reference (Leo Bodnar GPSDO). Both are attached as an image. The values now look almost identical.

Greetings from rainy Germany
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Offline mathstudi

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #449 on: September 01, 2023, 02:34:19 pm »
Hi,
I am planning to buy a Siglent SDG6000X. As I read here in the forum, most of the bugs have been fixed. Since the SDG6000X has been on the market for about 5 years, I wonder if there will be a successor in the near future.

Cheers
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #451 on: September 01, 2023, 03:06:27 pm »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #452 on: September 01, 2023, 03:19:34 pm »
The SDG7000A is Champions League :).

Didn't notice you're bound to Europa League.  :)
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #453 on: September 01, 2023, 10:24:49 pm »
The SDG7000A is Champions League :).

Didn't notice you're bound to Europa League.  :)

Woohoo! Go local soccer team! 😉
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #454 on: September 27, 2023, 10:44:01 am »
Hello! Im thinking about buying an SDG6022X generator, can it be hacked to SDG6052X?

And the second question, I want to buy an oscilloscope also SIGLENT, for example SDS2104X Plus is it possible to hack SDS2104X Plus to SDS2354X Plus?

And how is SIGLENT doing with capturing a complex signal from an oscilloscope and transmitting this signal to a generator?

Im  want send a video signal to the  oscilloscope and then capture the video signal using the generator, so that can then reproduce this video signal only from the generator.
The video signal is just a static picture of the tuning table.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 01:59:46 am by Andrey_Ak »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #455 on: September 28, 2023, 03:22:49 am »
Hello! Im thinking about buying an SDG6022X generator, can it be hacked to SDG6052X?

And the second question, I want to buy an oscilloscope also SIGLENT, for example SDS2104X Plus is it possible to hack SDS2104X Plus to SDS2354X Plus?

And how is SIGLENT doing with capturing a complex signal from an oscilloscope and transmitting this signal to a generator?

Im  want send a video signal to the  oscilloscope and then capture the video signal using the generator, so that can then reproduce this video signal only from the generator.
The video signal is just a static picture of the tuning table.
Been playing with this for a bit and it's not as straightforward as you might think, mainly due to the clock cycles within the waveform I believe.

Using STB-3 for the video signal which can be rock solid triggered upon with the dual Zone triggers SDS2000X Plus offers, (using SDS6204A) however memory depth needs be reduced so the captured BIN files are not overly large otherwise SDG6000X will not load them. The process is to save from the scope to USB in Binary format then use USB stick to transfer to SDG6000X and Recall the BIN file into the AWG.
CSV files can/could be used but they can be quite large however SDG6000X converts them into BIN and saves to internal memory.

Currently I have a half result however the captured waveform is not fully reconstructed correctly but suspect I need to reduce the SDS6000A sampling rate to match what SDS2000X Plus offers.

Bare with me and I'll post detailed results in due course.
Attached is what I'm working with.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
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Offline Andrey_Ak

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #456 on: September 28, 2023, 03:41:27 am »
On RIGOL devices, this is done via a USB cable,
here is an example:
And there is no such thing on SIGLENT devices?
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #457 on: October 02, 2023, 01:40:52 pm »
SDG6022X running firmware 36R8:

1. How does a customer normally enter a Siglent provided bandwidth activation code? A menu item somewhere?

2. After liberating the IQ option (by entering key into IQ License menu), how to undo/remove/unliberate it?

3. What does an original unliberated NSP_system_info.xml file look like?

4. Does anyone else see a small temporary Frequency error after switching into or out of (liberated) IQ mode? The error disappears after fiddling with the TimeBase calibration value, or power-cycling the instrument.
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #458 on: October 02, 2023, 08:14:47 pm »
SDG6022X running firmware 36R8:

1. How does a customer normally enter a Siglent provided bandwidth activation code? A menu item somewhere?

2. After liberating the IQ option (by entering key into IQ License menu), how to undo/remove/unliberate it?

3. What does an original unliberated NSP_system_info.xml file look like?

4. Does anyone else see a small temporary Frequency error after switching into or out of (liberated) IQ mode? The error disappears after fiddling with the TimeBase calibration value, or power-cycling the instrument.
1. Goto Waveforms> I/Q> License and enter activation code.
2. Not known.
3.
4. Suggest you 10 MHz ref the unit and check again.
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Offline gammaburst

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #459 on: October 03, 2023, 04:20:27 am »
1. Bandwidth (frequency limit) please. Or is the method of entering a purchased key not public knowledge?
2. Understood.
4. Not quite sure what you mean. Switching to external 10 MHz reference input would hide the problem that I'm describing with the internal clock's calibration. Does anyone else observe the problem?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 05:21:49 pm by gammaburst »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #460 on: October 04, 2023, 12:41:24 pm »
Analog (especially RF) circuit designers like to characterize their product’s distortion performance by means of the classic dual tone intermodulation test. Since this test requires two signal sources operating at very similar frequencies and identical amplitude, two expensive signal generators would usually be required. Up to 500 MHz, a dual channel SDG6052X can serve that task and provide perfect results – if used correctly.

The main requirement for this test is a clean dual tone signal and the challenge is to combine two signals in a way that the output stages of the generators do not produce intermodulation distortion products by themselves.

If we want to utilize the full available frequency range, we can consider three different setups suitable for the full frequency range of the SDG6052X. Consequently, the following test compares three configurations:

1.   Resistive power combiner with two attenuators in the source paths from the generators.
2.   Resistive power combiner with a single attenuator at its output.
3.   Internal “Wave Combine” function with external attenuator.

The attenuators in this test are 20dB. The big advantage of this arrangement is that we need not touch the generator settings (except for frequency) and get the exact same output levels. As a consequence, the spectrum analyzer always sees the same signal level. All in all, the three tests are perfectly comparable over the entire frequency range.

I’ve tested both 4 MHz (low frequency) and 400 MHz (high frequency), as we can expect the generator performance to degrade at higher frequencies. The 2nd tone is just 10 kHz above the first one. An automatic Intermodulation measurement has been used to get the results quickly and accurately.

Let’s start with the textbook approach: resistive power combiner with a 20 dB attenuator in each source path. As expected, the resulting signal is near perfect and we can measure the intermodulation performance of the spectrum analyzer, which is better than -87 dBc when both input signals are at -30 dBm level at the analyzer input.

No point in showing the 4 MHz result, the first screenshot is for 400 MHz:

SDG6052X_Ext_2x20dB_400MHz_-4dBm

Now we remove the attenuator in the source links and place a single one at the output. This way, the levels remain unchanged, but the isolation between the two generator outputs is now only 6 dB, whereas it was 46 dB before.

Not a problem at 4 MHz:

SDG6052X_Ext_1x20dB_4MHz_-4dBm

But look at 400 MHz!

SDG6052X_Ext_1x20dB_400MHz_-4dBm

The Intermodulation products are very significant at only -58 dBc now.

Finally, we can try the internal wave combine function, 4 MHz at first:

SDG6052X_Int_1x20dB_4MHz_-4dBm

Well, it works, but distortion is already significantly higher than with the external splitter. -82 dBc might be good enough for many tasks, yet it is about 6 dB worse than the worst result with external power combiner, which in turn quite likely marked the limits of the SA.

The true disaster becomes apparent if we try to use the “Wave Combine” at high frequencies – no wonder, now we have both frequencies in a single amplifier without any isolation at all. That means, we are measuring the linearity of the output buffer in the SDG6052X now, and we cannot expect it to be highly linear at 400 MHz anymore.…

SDG6052X_Int_1x20dB_400MHz_-6dBm

With only -38 dBc, this is unusable even for the most undemanding tasks. I had to reduce the output level to -6 dBm, because the SDG6052X cannot maintain the -4 dBm per channel in wave combine mode at frequencies that high. The result is valid and fully comparable nevertheless.

Verdict: As tempting the internal “Wave Combine” feature might look, its use has to be restricted to low frequencies.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2023, 01:05:26 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #461 on: October 04, 2023, 08:22:17 pm »
Quote
1.   Resistive power combiner with two attenuators in the source paths from the generators.
2.   Resistive power combiner with a single attenuator at its output.

Even though I might not have this effect because my generator only goes up to 120Mhz anyway (I don't have a second SML01):
What do these attenuators/combiners look like that you used ?

Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #462 on: October 05, 2023, 09:18:31 am »
Quote
1.   Resistive power combiner with two attenuators in the source paths from the generators.
2.   Resistive power combiner with a single attenuator at its output.

Even though I might not have this effect because my generator only goes up to 120Mhz anyway (I don't have a second SML01):
What do these attenuators/combiners look like that you used ?
As I've demonstrated, even at only 4 MHz the internal (numerical) combiner is inferior in the SDS6052X.
Chances are, that the output stage of an SDG2000X might be less powerful, hence also less linear at higher frequencies.
In any case you shouldn't take a chance and make sure you actually measure the distortion of the DUT and not your generator.

I use a fancy Suhner 4901.19A power splitter/combiner, usable up to 12.4 GHz:

https://www.distrelec.nl/en/resistive-power-divider-huber-suhner-4901-19/p/14645419

But for frequencies up to a couple hundred MHz you should be able to find other (cheaper) ones or you could build one yourself. Or stick with Mini-Circuits and get their still not cheap BNC model with 2 GHz bandwidth:

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=ZFRSC-2050%2B

The inline attenuators are Mini-Circuits VAT-20A+ (20 dB) and VAT-10A+ (10 dB). I don't think there would be good alternatves to them:

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=VAT-20A%2B

For the BNC solution, there aren't many high quality inline attenuators available, but once again Mini-Circuists can help you out. They have about 14 different 2 GHz variants from 3 dB to 20 dB available, here's the 20 dB one:

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=HAT-20A%2B

Finally, I use appropriate cables - something like this:

https://www.mouser.at/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/095-902-451-004?qs=3lX5AGUhm28OKKH1LFEK5A%3D%3D

And then I need some SMA (f) to BNC (m) adapters of course.

If you stick to BNC, then you should use high quality low loss cables with good (double) shielding, so to avoid crosstalk and the scope or SA picking up enironmental noise, which could be rather bad if we try to measure signals down at -80 dBc or even lower. Cheap RG58 is a no-go here.

I am using Hyperflex 5 cable in such cases, specified up to 6 GHz and >105 dB screening at 2 GHz.

A splitter/combiner is also very useful for the Bode Plot in Siglent DSOs - and to get good acuracy at low levels, good cables with high shielding are important there as well.
 





« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 09:44:07 am by Performa01 »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #463 on: October 05, 2023, 09:40:20 am »
... my generator only goes up to 120Mhz anyway ...
Well, here is a test at just 100 MHz, and the result is still highly inadequate even with the 500 MHz SDG6052X. The SDG2000X will probably be the same, if not, it could only be worse.

Se attached screenshot: only -60 dBc!
 
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Offline gammaburst

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #464 on: October 05, 2023, 05:03:09 pm »
Hi Performa01,

I tried your most recent test on my SDG6022X (liberated), 100.00 + 100.01 MHz using CH1+CH2 Wave Combine, both set to -30 dBm. I'm seeing about -74 dBc IMD on my old Advantest R3265M (calibrated long ago).

On my SDG2042X (liberated) I'm seeing about -54 dBc IMD. Interestingly, if I increase its two amplitudes to -20 dBm, IMD improves to about -63 dBc. I think that's because the instrument seems to use 8 dB attenuator/relay steps, the DAC provides the smaller amplitude steps, and the amplifier distortion grows quickly with amplitude. At -30 dBm the DAC happens to be near max amplitude (higher amplifier distortion), and at -20 dBm the DAC happens to be near min amplitude (lower amplifier distortion). Just my guesses. I haven't noticed that behavior with the SDG6022X.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 05:12:57 pm by gammaburst »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #465 on: October 05, 2023, 07:52:29 pm »
@Performa01:

Thank you for the cable hint, I need to make some cables for my SML01.
The two 20dB attenuators and the combiner from mini circuits I´ve ordered now from mouser (It seems that mini circuits accept only credit card, I don´t have one.), should arrive in the next week.
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #466 on: October 06, 2023, 02:17:26 pm »
I tried your most recent test on my SDG6022X (liberated), 100.00 + 100.01 MHz using CH1+CH2 Wave Combine, both set to -30 dBm. I'm seeing about -74 dBc IMD on my old Advantest R3265M (calibrated long ago).
Well, there could be several reasons for this. Most likely you have a different HW version (mine is 01-00-00-78-38), or even a different FW (mine was 6.01.01.36R3) and finally even with identical hardware, distortion performance could vary a bit, especially since there will always be slight differences in the signal levels.

Finally, there is also the distortion of the spectrum analyzer, which can even reduce the DUT distortion measurement in some cases.

On my SDG2042X (liberated) I'm seeing about -54 dBc IMD.
Okay - looks like the SDG2000X output stage is actually less linear then. I cannot test this, since I don't have an SDG2000X.

Interestingly, if I increase its two amplitudes to -20 dBm, IMD improves to about -63 dBc. I think that's because the instrument seems to use 8 dB attenuator/relay steps, the DAC provides the smaller amplitude steps, and the amplifier distortion grows quickly with amplitude. At -30 dBm the DAC happens to be near max amplitude (higher amplifier distortion), and at -20 dBm the DAC happens to be near min amplitude (lower amplifier distortion). Just my guesses. I haven't noticed that behavior with the SDG6022X.
Yes, this most likely plays a major role, often overlooked in the heat of the fight...
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #467 on: October 06, 2023, 03:50:11 pm »
I tried your most recent test on my SDG6022X (liberated), 100.00 + 100.01 MHz using CH1+CH2 Wave Combine, both set to -30 dBm. I'm seeing about -74 dBc IMD on my old Advantest R3265M (calibrated long ago).
Well, there could be several reasons for this. Most likely you have a different HW version (mine is 01-00-00-78-38), or even a different FW (mine was 6.01.01.36R3) and finally even with identical hardware, distortion performance could vary a bit, especially since there will always be slight differences in the signal levels.

Finally, there is also the distortion of the spectrum analyzer, which can even reduce the DUT distortion measurement in some cases.

On my SDG2042X (liberated) I'm seeing about -54 dBc IMD.
Okay - looks like the SDG2000X output stage is actually less linear then. I cannot test this, since I don't have an SDG2000X.

Interestingly, if I increase its two amplitudes to -20 dBm, IMD improves to about -63 dBc. I think that's because the instrument seems to use 8 dB attenuator/relay steps, the DAC provides the smaller amplitude steps, and the amplifier distortion grows quickly with amplitude. At -30 dBm the DAC happens to be near max amplitude (higher amplifier distortion), and at -20 dBm the DAC happens to be near min amplitude (lower amplifier distortion). Just my guesses. I haven't noticed that behavior with the SDG6022X.
Yes, this most likely plays a major role, often overlooked in the heat of the fight...

WRT Blue above. We get about -71dBc with our SDG6022X under same conditions, measured with SSA3021X+. SDG6022X Firmware version 36R3, and hardware version 78-38. This is OK but certainly not good enough for some serious 2 Tone IMD evaluation.


Do you have any references where this IMD reduction occurred with the use of the SA mentioned above?

Long ago we spent considerable time and $ looking into analog channels to achieve such, this was for some very specific applications. We did develop a broadband channel that exhibited a somewhat unique property, where the signal of interest odd harmonics experienced a sort of "suck out" phenomena in the classic sweep of input amplitude power and plotting the fundamental and harmonics on a power scale (dBm). The general idea was to place the input signal level utilizing AGC to place the conditioned signal within the region of the odd harmonic null, thus removing/reducing such over a wide-band without the need for tunable filters. The odd harmonic "null" looked more like a notch filter with the input power sweep.

Don't want to detract from this thread but could post something about these unique non-linear amps if folks are interested, from what I can remember from way back ???

Edit: Added the IMD plot for the SDG2042X, shows worse IMD performance as expected, just -53dBc.

Best,
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 04:32:25 pm by mawyatt »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #468 on: October 06, 2023, 06:56:59 pm »
We get about -71dBc with our SDG6022X under same conditions, measured with SSA3021X+. SDG6022X Firmware version 36R3, and hardware version 78-38.
Are you reaally sure the conditions were the same? The screenshot posted by me was named "SDG6052X_Int_1x20dB_100MHz_-6dBm" which hints on a generator output level of -6 dBm. I have not clearly described this setup, but it was the same as for the other two scenarios, with the major difference that only one input of the power combiner was connected to the SDG and the other input was just 50 ohms terminated.

To cut a long story short, the generator output was -6 dBm, and together with a total of 26 dB attenuation this resulted in a signal level of -32 dBm at the SA input.

Now I have repeated the 100 MHz test at the much lower level of -32 dBm (instead of -6 dBm) and lo and behold, my results are suspiciously close to the ones achieved by @gammaburst and you - just look at the attached screenshot.

Do you have any references where this IMD reduction occurred with the use of the SA mentioned above?
This claim is bassed on my own experience. If I find the time, I will search my old measurements to find an example eventually.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2023, 06:59:17 am by Performa01 »
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #469 on: October 06, 2023, 07:31:16 pm »
We get about -71dBc with our SDG6022X under same conditions, measured with SSA3021X+. SDG6022X Firmware version 36R3, and hardware version 78-38.
Are you reaally sure the conditions were the same? The screenshot posted by me was named "SDG6052X_Int_1x20dB_100MHz_-6dBm" which hints on a generator output level of -6 dBm. I have not clearly described this setup, but it was the same as for the other two scenarios, with the major difference that only one input of the power combiner was connected to the SDG and the other input was just 50 ohms terminated.

This was in reference to the Highlighted Blue Text which was from gamaburst as shown, so not referenced to your results with AWG set to -6dBm.

As expected your results with -30dBm AWG setting are quite similar, and agree with both gamaburst and our results, which confirms the SDG6022X performance expectations under Wave Combine.

Edit: Here's a plot with the AWG set to -6dBm with Wave Combine, we don't have a 20dB pad, so using a 10dB attenuator instead....... I know we "should" have a 20dB pad :-[

Also added (PNG36) the SDG2042X at -6dBm with 10dB attenuator, results are slightly better than when set to -30dBm as gamaburst had also shown improvement with higher levels.

Best,
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 08:08:46 pm by mawyatt »
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #470 on: October 06, 2023, 08:32:15 pm »
Do you have any references where this IMD reduction occurred with the use of the SA mentioned above?

Not sure to whom you're speaking there. I don't understand the question, so maybe not to me.

My SDG6022X has firmware 36R8 and hardware 03-00-00-78-38.

Just for fun, here's a screen capture (via GPIB) of my old R3265M SA (circa 1991). I performed a self-calibration a couple hours ago - not much change. The SDG6022X (liberated) is set to -30dBm (both channels) with Wave Combine enabled, and CH1 simply plugged into the SA through a DC blocking capacitor.

You fellows mentioned -6 dBm so I've attached that screen capture too. Looks like about -73 dBc.
I dialed-in some extra SA attenuation so the stronger signal doesn't hit the SA's first mixer too hard (distortion).
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 09:42:03 pm by gammaburst »
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #471 on: October 06, 2023, 10:25:22 pm »
Do you have any references where this IMD reduction occurred with the use of the SA mentioned above?

Not sure to whom you're speaking there. I don't understand the question, so maybe not to me.

My SDG6022X has firmware 36R8 and hardware 03-00-00-78-38.

That was for Performa01 wrt to the reduction in IMD with signal amplitude increase which we were interested with (see "...." below), sorry for the confusion.

"Long ago we spent considerable time and $ looking into analog channels to achieve such, this was for some very specific applications. We did develop a broadband channel that exhibited a somewhat unique property, where the signal of interest odd harmonics experienced a sort of "suck out" phenomena in the classic sweep of input amplitude power and plotting the fundamental and harmonics on a power scale (dBm). The general idea was to place the input signal level utilizing AGC to place the conditioned signal within the region of the odd harmonic null, thus removing/reducing such over a wide-band without the need for tunable filters. The odd harmonic "null" looked more like a notch filter with the input power sweep.

Don't want to detract from this thread but could post something about these unique non-linear amps if folks are interested, from what I can remember from way back ???"


BTW, appears your results are slightly better :-+

Best,
 
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 10:34:50 pm by mawyatt »
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Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #472 on: October 07, 2023, 08:58:46 am »
Since distortions are highly dependent of signal levels, I thought I’d take advantage on my precision step attenuator in order to measure distortion performance of my SDG6052X at various output levels while still keeping the input level to the spectrum analyzer the same -30 dBm all the time. Of course I’ve checked my SA first – it doesn’t generate any distortion products relevant for this measurement itself; that means, the relative levels of the distortion products were the same for all input levels from -30 to -50 dBm for instance.

I have tested all output levels before and after the click of an internal relay when stepping through the range from -30 dBm to +10 dBm in 1 dB increments. By this, I noticed a curious behavior as can be seen in the table below: At some spots, there is a relay action every other step, such as -13 to -14, and then again -15 to -16 dBm, but then there are also areas like +2 to -5 dBm without any relay action.

The test has been performed at 100 MHz.

Output  IMD
 [dBm]  [dBc]
---------------
   -30  -71.5
   -29  -74.0
   -24  -71.9
   -23  -70.9
   -22  -71.2
   -21  -74.9
   -16  -69.6
   -15  -68.5
   -14  -68.1
   -13  -75.9
   -08  -62.5
   -07  -61.4
   -06  -60.6
   -05  -59.2
   +02  -54.1
   +03  -53.6
   +08  -48.8
   +09  -48.3
   +10  -48.2

As we can see, my SDG6052X has a sweet spot (-75:9 dBc) at -13 dBm output, see first screenshot.

SDG6052X_Int_100MHz_-13dBm

At -14 dBm, the distortion rises significantly to -68.1 dBc; Yet it shows a lot less higher order distortion products in comparison:

SDG6052X_Int_100MHz_-14dBm

 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #473 on: October 09, 2023, 05:50:31 pm »
@Performa01:

Thank you for the cable hint, I need to make some cables for my SML01.
The two 20dB attenuators and the combiner from mini circuits I´ve ordered now from mouser (It seems that mini circuits accept only credit card, I don´t have one.), should arrive in the next week.

Already arrived...looks like good quality.
 
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Offline boolhead

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #474 on: October 31, 2023, 01:41:10 am »
I wonder if there will be a successor in the near future.

https://www.siglenteu.com/waveform-generators/sdg7000a-arbitrary-waveform-generator/


SDG6012X-E 160MHz version running firmware 36R8:
Hi tv84, can not telnet to 10101 with telnet_sdg6000.ads, does this ads file not support SDG6012X-E :-//?
 

Offline JanL

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #475 on: November 30, 2023, 03:20:29 pm »
Hello there, I stumbled across the SDG6022X as an signal generator for a reasonable price. Looking at the data sheet I am missing information about rise/fall times for different output voltages. Does anybody know what times to expect for 5, 10, 20V outputs?
Thanks, Jan
 

Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #476 on: November 30, 2023, 04:36:47 pm »
I only have SDG6052X here, but this shouldn’t make any difference:

Firstly, I won’t be able to show you the rise time at 20 Vpp, because this instrument, like any other AWG in this class, can only output 10 Vpp into a 50 ohm load. There’s certainly no way to get a fast pulse with single digit nanosecond risetime into a high-Z input without significant degradation. So we have to stick to 50 ohms.

The fastest specified rise-time of the SDG6000X is 2 ns. At least my specimen is a little faster and manages to stay below 1.7 ns at 5 Vpp:


SDG6052X_5Vpp_T2ns

For 10 Vpp it was a bit of a hassle already, because that level is too high for a 50 ohm DSO input. I had to fit a 6 dB inline attenuator and consequently you’ll still see only a 5 Vpp pulse in the screenshot. But it is 10 Vpp originally – you can also see that the rise time got quite a bit slower now (~2.3 ns).


SDG6052X_10Vpp_T2ns_A6dB

« Last Edit: November 30, 2023, 04:50:26 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Offline JanL

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #477 on: December 01, 2023, 08:03:50 am »
Thank you very much. It helps a lot with my decision.
 


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