Siglent SDM3045X - Enough is enough

[Ringmodulator]

Looks like the specs for the 3055X-E are hard to find.
See attachment and use some fantasy...

I have not yet found a site to get the firmwareupdates from.

Chris

[tautech]

https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDM3055X-E_DataSheet_DS06035-C04A.pdf

https://www.siglent.com/download/firmware/?ProId=25

[Ringmodulator]

Compairing the claimed accuracy of the 3045X and the 3055X-E, I can not see, how the additional digit of the 3055X-E gives any useful additional information.

[Pinkus]

For my tasks, I usually don't need absolute accuracy. It is enough for me to know whether the voltage is 3,30 Volt, if it is 3.3001 or 3.3005 does not interest me.
But if I measure e.g. very small currents or resistances, then one digit more is quite informative.
And this is now the case with my SDM3045x with 5.5 digits. The new last digit is stable, thus: quite useful.
I would also not object about one more digit. For the SDM3065 there is already the possibility to extend it from 6.5 to 7.5 digits..... thus I would not mind 6,5 digits on my SDM3045x (of course, here the usefulness is questionable).

If I really needed absolute accuracy, I would of course buy a DMM with better specs than the SDM3045. But I am satisfied, though the extra digit is a nice-to-have and actually quite usable for me.

[Kleinstein]

On the PC interface there should already be a 6th and maybe even 7th digit. The accuracy would not be great, but at the low end (e.g. thermal EMF measrured in the 200 mV range it is nice to resolve 1 µV or maybe even 100 nV.

With the new SW version one may have to redo the calibration. No sure how good the old calibration from the SDM3048 SW still is with different ranges.

[tautech]

See what you can manage to conjure up tv84. 

AFAIR, show me the contents of the NSP_system_info.xml file.

Who can pull this file for tv84 please ?

[n3mmr]

Can this 3055X-E-for-the-3045X fw be made accessible, somewhere?

[Pinkus]

Can this 3055X-E-for-the-3045X fw be made accessible, somewhere?

It is all explained above how to patch the existing firmware. It is a matter of two minutes work.

[Pinkus]

See what you can manage to conjure up tv84. 

AFAIR, show me the contents of the NSP_system_info.xml file.

Who can pull this file for tv84 please ?

I wanted to copy it today, but there was no time left. It might take another day or two.

[n3mmr]

Can this 3055X-E-for-the-3045X fw be made accessible, somewhere?

It is all explained above how to patch the existing firmware. It is a matter of two minutes work.

Sorry for being mixed up.
I can't seem to find the original 3055X-E fw file.
I thought, and possibly still think, that it is the original fw file for the 3055x-e that I'm supposed to patch to make it installable on a 3045x.
I tried the link provided by Tautech just before the patch instructions, but that link just times out.

[tautech]

I tried the link provided by Tautech just before the patch instructions, but that link just times out.

The SDM3055X-E FW link downloads directly into your browsers download folder.
Just checked it and it works just as it should.

[Pinkus]

Sorry for being mixed up.

6th post in this thread. I tried it too - the link works.

[dl6lr]

The SDM3055X-E FW link downloads directly into your browsers download folder.
Just checked it and it works just as it should.

At least from Germany the link redirects to the base https://int.siglent.com/ and from there you can only download FW for the 3045, not 3055. Maybe the download is restricted with geolocation services:

Code: [Select]

bernd@laptop:~ $ wget [url]https://www.siglent.com/download/firmware/?ProId=25[/url]
--2022-01-12 09:54:04--  [url]https://www.siglent.com/download/firmware/?ProId=25[/url]
Resolving [url=http://www.siglent.com]www.siglent.com[/url] ([url=http://www.siglent.com]www.siglent.com[/url])... 39.108.136.251
Connecting to [url=http://www.siglent.com]www.siglent.com[/url] ([url=http://www.siglent.com]www.siglent.com[/url])|39.108.136.251|:443... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Moved Temporarily
Location: http://int.siglent.com [following]
--2022-01-12 09:54:07--  http://int.siglent.com/
Resolving int.siglent.com (int.siglent.com)... 72.52.197.8
Connecting to int.siglent.com (int.siglent.com)|72.52.197.8|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Location: [url]https://int.siglent.com/[/url] [following]
--2022-01-12 09:54:07--  [url]https://int.siglent.com/[/url]
Connecting to int.siglent.com (int.siglent.com)|72.52.197.8|:443... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: unspecified [text/html]
Saving to: ‘index.html?ProId=25’

index.html?ProId=25     [  <=>               ] 114.55K   352KB/s    in 0.3s

2022-01-12 09:54:08 (352 KB/s) - ‘index.html?ProId=25’ saved [117300]


[n3mmr]

It worked after I changed device and browser.

Sorry.

But the post by dl6lr seems to indicate there is some problem reaching the chinese site from europe.

Both my devices are on the same network, but one is on WiFi. Needs testing.
I have a similar problem reaching some Czech sites....

[tautech]

It worked after I changed device and browser.

Sorry.

But the post by dl6lr seems to indicate there is some problem reaching the chinese site from europe.

Both my devices are on the same network, but one is on WiFi. Needs testing.
I have a similar problem reaching some Czech sites....

Yes I used to have this problem with an older version of Chrome where the siglent.com Chinese website was automatically diverted to the int.siglent.com English website.
But now we can click on the globe on the international website and select the Chinese website.
If you have both websites open the menu structures are almost identical which allows you to refer to the English website in order to navigate the Chinese website.......mostly. 

[Pinkus]

OK, here are the NSP files which were requested.
Pulled from SDM3045x with installed patched SDM3055x-e firmware from the directory /usr/bin/siglent/usr/config/

If these files exist multiple times in different directories and if I copied them from the wrong directory, please send a short message.

[n3mmr]

So I've patched the 3055x-e fw, and now I'm thinking of upgrading my 3045x with this patched fw.

Can someone remind me how to revert to 3045x if this bricks my DMM?

[n3mmr]

So I've patched the 3055x-e fw, and now I'm thinking of upgrading my 3045x with this patched fw.

Can someone remind me how to revert to 3045x if this bricks my DMM?

And after a while I realised I had two more DMMs of sufficient quality for immediate needs, so I upgraded and tested.

Things look good, at least initially.
I don't have any voltage or current sources accurate enough for verification, but the last digit seems stable, which all on its own makes the "upgrade" actually useful.

Also, for some reason, 0.2, 2 and 20 volts seem much more natural. Probably a deeply hidden memory of when I last worked in an electronic lab. Some fifty years ago!

How can you get hold of accurate calibration sources w/o ruining your economy?

[pcmihnea]

So I've patched the 3055x-e fw, and now I'm thinking of upgrading my 3045x with this patched fw.

Can someone remind me how to revert to 3045x if this bricks my DMM?

And after a while I realised I had two more DMMs of sufficient quality for immediate needs, so I upgraded and tested.

Things look good, at least initially.
I don't have any voltage or current sources accurate enough for verification, but the last digit seems stable, which all on its own makes the "upgrade" actually useful.

Also, for some reason, 0.2, 2 and 20 volts seem much more natural. Probably a deeply hidden memory of when I last worked in an electronic lab. Some fifty years ago!

How can you get hold of accurate calibration sources w/o ruining your economy?

Can you compare the options available in the menus, for eg. the custom temperature menu added in the latest SDM3045X FW (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/09/SDM3045X-Firmware-Revise-History.pdf)? If it's available, the FW for SDM3055X-E may be up to date with SDM3045X.
You could also issue the SCPI *IDN? command to check if it returns any different info.

[Kleinstein]

DC cal source are available, espeically if the only have to be resonable stable and not accurate, with a good meter to compare too.

The tricky part is the AC side. Here a good source for the higher voltage higher frequency can get quite expensive.

As the hardware is still the same, it is not clear if the meter with the 3055 firmware still uses the old 3048 calibration data. It may work, as the HW is still the same and they may use a compatible and maybe the same format. Hower this is not for sure, especially as different cal points are used.
Without suitable cal data some ranges may be quite a bit out.
 

A reasonabe good test would be checking a DC voltages of some 2 V in the 2 and 20 V range and see if both read reasonable (within the accuracy of the 3048) the same. This would test the input divider and here idividual units can scatter quite a bit. So wrong cal data would likely produce different readings.
A similar (maybe even easier) could be done with resistors in different ranges (the very low end may not help here, as the 200 mV and 2 V range likely are done with the ADC internal gain and this is naturally quite close to nominal.

[tautech]

DC cal source are available, espeically if the only have to be resonable stable and not accurate, with a good meter to compare too.

The tricky part is the AC side. Here a good source for the higher voltage higher frequency can get quite expensive.

As the hardware is still the same, it is not clear if the meter with the 3055 firmware still uses the old 3048 calibration data. It may work, as the HW is still the same and they may use a compatible and maybe the same format. Hower this is not for sure, especially as different cal points are used.
Without suitable cal data some ranges may be quite a bit out.
 

A reasonable good test would be checking a DC voltages of some 2 V in the 2 and 20 V range and see if both read reasonable (within the accuracy of the 3048) the same. This would test the input divider and here idividual units can scatter quite a bit. So wrong cal data would likely produce different readings.
A similar (maybe even easier) could be done with resistors in different ranges (the very low end may not help here, as the 200 mV and 2 V range likely are done with the ADC internal gain and this is naturally quite close to nominal.

First I'm gunna pull you up for constantly referring to 3048 and 3068 where there are no such models in the SDM range !   
Only SDM3065X, 3055, 3045X and the China version 3055X-E.

As to the bold paragraph above if we look back to the OP in this thread we can see although SDM3045X has ranges 600mV, 6V, 60V, 600V and 1kV the OP's issue was a range relay switching at ~2V and messing with measurements where if we are to believe the datasheet the range relay should've been switching at 6V but no, 3045X range relay behavior more closely mimics the 3055 where instead ranges are 200mV, 2V, 20V, 200V and 1kV.

This alerted me to SDM3055X-E might equal SDM3045X and only the ranges were different due to different firmware and they may be calibrated as equals with just SW determining the model #.
That China don't have SDM3045X further points to them having the same HW and as this seems so they are very likely to be calibrated equally.
Another range switching data point might be needed to prove 3045X = 3055X-E beyond reasonable doubt.

Unless evidence to the contrary arises I believe we can say these 2 models share the same HW and calibration procedures.

[n3mmr]

So I've patched the 3055x-e fw, and now I'm thinking of upgrading my 3045x with this patched fw.

Can someone remind me how to revert to 3045x if this bricks my DMM?

And after a while I realised I had two more DMMs of sufficient quality for immediate needs, so I upgraded and tested.

Things look good, at least initially.
I don't have any voltage or current sources accurate enough for verification, but the last digit seems stable, which all on its own makes the "upgrade" actually useful.

Also, for some reason, 0.2, 2 and 20 volts seem much more natural. Probably a deeply hidden memory of when I last worked in an electronic lab. Some fifty years ago!

How can you get hold of accurate calibration sources w/o ruining your economy?

Can you compare the options available in the menus, for eg. the custom temperature menu added in the latest SDM3045X FW (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/09/SDM3045X-Firmware-Revise-History.pdf)? If it's available, the FW for SDM3055X-E may be up to date with SDM3045X.
You could also issue the SCPI *IDN? command to check if it returns any different info.

Did you mean the custom time base menu item?

I couldn't find the custom timebase item in the 3055x-e fw.
One more thing is that, not being conversant with chinese ideography, I cant read the included revision history.

[pcmihnea]

So I've patched the 3055x-e fw, and now I'm thinking of upgrading my 3045x with this patched fw.

Can someone remind me how to revert to 3045x if this bricks my DMM?

And after a while I realised I had two more DMMs of sufficient quality for immediate needs, so I upgraded and tested.

Things look good, at least initially.
I don't have any voltage or current sources accurate enough for verification, but the last digit seems stable, which all on its own makes the "upgrade" actually useful.

Also, for some reason, 0.2, 2 and 20 volts seem much more natural. Probably a deeply hidden memory of when I last worked in an electronic lab. Some fifty years ago!

How can you get hold of accurate calibration sources w/o ruining your economy?

Can you compare the options available in the menus, for eg. the custom temperature menu added in the latest SDM3045X FW (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/09/SDM3045X-Firmware-Revise-History.pdf)? If it's available, the FW for SDM3055X-E may be up to date with SDM3045X.
You could also issue the SCPI *IDN? command to check if it returns any different info.

Did you mean the custom time base menu item?

I've always assumed the "Add the customer sensor support" feature reffers to the "Custom Sensor" menu present in temperature measurement mode, where you can define the sensor's LUT - it's on the bottom row, fifth one.

[pcmihnea]

DC cal source are available, espeically if the only have to be resonable stable and not accurate, with a good meter to compare too.

The tricky part is the AC side. Here a good source for the higher voltage higher frequency can get quite expensive.

As the hardware is still the same, it is not clear if the meter with the 3055 firmware still uses the old 3048 calibration data. It may work, as the HW is still the same and they may use a compatible and maybe the same format. Hower this is not for sure, especially as different cal points are used.
Without suitable cal data some ranges may be quite a bit out.
 

A reasonable good test would be checking a DC voltages of some 2 V in the 2 and 20 V range and see if both read reasonable (within the accuracy of the 3048) the same. This would test the input divider and here idividual units can scatter quite a bit. So wrong cal data would likely produce different readings.
A similar (maybe even easier) could be done with resistors in different ranges (the very low end may not help here, as the 200 mV and 2 V range likely are done with the ADC internal gain and this is naturally quite close to nominal.

First I'm gunna pull you up for constantly referring to 3048 and 3068 where there are no such models in the SDM range !   
Only SDM3065X, 3055, 3045X and the China version 3055X-E.

As to the bold paragraph above if we look back to the OP in this thread we can see although SDM3045X has ranges 600mV, 6V, 60V, 600V and 1kV the OP's issue was a range relay switching at ~2V and messing with measurements where if we are to believe the datasheet the range relay should've been switching at 6V but no, 3045X range relay behavior more closely mimics the 3055 where instead ranges are 200mV, 2V, 20V, 200V and 1kV.

This alerted me to SDM3055X-E might equal SDM3045X and only the ranges were different due to different firmware and they may be calibrated as equals with just SW determining the model #.
That China don't have SDM3045X further points to them having the same HW and as this seems so they are very likely to be calibrated equally.
Another range switching data point might be needed to prove 3045X = 3055X-E beyond reasonable doubt.

Unless evidence to the contrary arises I believe we can say these 2 models share the same HW and calibration procedures.

It's seems even some calibration points are multiples of 2, not 6 (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/05/SDM3045X_ServiceManual_SM06034-E02C.pdf)

[tautech]

It's seems even some calibration points are multiples of 2, not 6 (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/05/SDM3045X_ServiceManual_SM06034-E02C.pdf)

Good sleuthing Sherlock !

Amps and Capacitance on P12.

Check out the western SDM3055 manual, pages 11 and 12.
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDM3055_ServiceManual_SM06035-E01C.pdf
Almost identical spec.