Author Topic: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?  (Read 4878 times)

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Offline KG7AMV

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Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« on: July 21, 2021, 08:45:11 pm »
 :-[ Sadly I had to RMA a Siglent SDM3065X 6.5 DMM voltage readings were way high and error kept climbing the longer it was powered on a week or so out of the box.

Unit Arrived at Siglent NA July 19th I Called on the 21st to get the plan of action as no response to e-mail i sent. They said they have a lot in the cue! They said about 10 days as for them to recalibrate it or swap the board if it cannot be recalibrated.

Anyone else have issues with the 6.5 DMM I found 1 posts on the forums and 4 other on a discord / fb group with similar issues.

My concern is getting the unit back with no explanation as to why and have a unit that will spend more time in the calibration lab and in shipping then in my lab!

I Recently dropped a few K$ on New Siglent equipment so far so good other then the DMM and the EasySDL software that seems incomplete and that it will uninstall when easywave is installed so you have  to install EasySDL rename EasyDSL dir then install easywave.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 12:12:41 am by KG7AMV »
 

Online bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2021, 08:54:33 pm »
Just curious--how high?  Could it have been a reference burn-in issue or was it more than that?  I recall another member saying that their SDM3065X exhibited drift that resembled an LM399 initial aging curve (not that they all age identically) as if the references are just installed raw out of the box.

How long have you owned it?  And where did you buy it? If it is brand new out of the box, I'd want an exchange unit, not warranty service.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2021, 09:01:19 pm »
I Recently dropped a few K$ on New Siglent equipment so far so good other then the DMM and the EasySDL software that seems incomplete and that it will uninstall when easywave is installed so you have  to install EasySDL rename EasyDSL dir then install easywave.
FYI
EasySDL-V8.5 replaced an earlier version that had a conflict with EasyWave and EasyWave has a new and more powerful X version and those combinations of EasySDL-V8.5 and EasyWaveX fixed any conflict issues.
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Offline KG7AMV

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2021, 11:49:28 pm »
In use for about a week, but past the amazon return window.

It was reading High. As volts went up so did the error.

Siglent PSU Display Output and Fluke 187 and a Generic DMM matched PSU display out. Siglent was +5mV to +15mV or more High!
 

Online bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2021, 12:47:02 am »
Siglent PSU Display Output and Fluke 187 and a Generic DMM matched PSU display out. Siglent was +5mV to +15mV or more High!

Assuming you were below 20 volts, that's a big error, certainly more than reference drift would cause.  That's more like the error I would see in a meter that has lost its cal data.  Was it like that initially, did it get worse or didn't you notice until all the sudden you realized it was off?
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline KG7AMV

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2021, 07:42:13 pm »
All Ranges had the error.  But only tested to 60V, 20V was about 7mV Hi.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 07:43:50 pm by KG7AMV »
 

Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2021, 09:33:43 pm »
My issues as already reported to this forum:

. time span resets to 60 seconds after reboot

. time span max as 3600 seconds

. dB math back to Volt after reboot

. dB math scale as xx.x format even for 6.5 digit gear

. copy of folder with xx screen captures BMP files to an external USB stick impossible

. using the given SW to capture remote ....  |O

all gear what you touch coming from the given land, as unfinished and even no deadline when fixed.

Looks like they lay off all engineers while those left open the hacking door..  :-DD


 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 07:14:04 pm by hpw »
 

Offline KG7AMV

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2021, 11:04:30 pm »
Wonder if the Cal setting and other settings are stored in same area?
 

Offline KG7AMV

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2021, 12:26:12 am »
Tick Tock.. Day 9 not a word.






 

Online tautech

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Offline KG7AMV

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2021, 04:37:37 am »
tautech

Yea, I read that.
 

Offline hpw

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2021, 07:33:25 am »
Tick Tock.. Day 9 not a word.
See #4
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/warranty-information/

And how it goes with SW bugs?? Also 10 days??  :-DD while  |O with Siglent Engineers since months without any answers  :palm: :palm:

Even not getting an bug & tracking Nr. so acts as a student company.  :popcorn:

« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 07:35:11 am by hpw »
 

Offline wolfy007

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2021, 03:38:24 pm »
When I got my 3065X a few years ago now, it also arrived out of cal resulting in a sort of perturbed indignation which released my inner voltnut in the form of chaotic capital expenditure. Now I have compulsion to be able to self verify and possibly calibrate my own TE.  :scared:

In any case, soon after I sent it back under warranty, it was away for about two months including shipping (pre Covid) if I remembered correctly but the same unit came back with an added calibration sticker. I sent a few queries in between, with the same response each time "its away for calibration", but it came back and has behaved ever since.

I do still wonder if they kept it to burn in the reference then sent it off for a calibration?
 

Offline KG7AMV

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2021, 09:08:15 pm »
E-mailed Siglent today asking for status update went unanswered?
 

Offline KG7AMV

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2021, 08:13:32 pm »
Form Siglent:

I had a chance to take a look at your SDM3065X today and I put it on the calibration stand and it passed the DC performance verification. I know you had some measured values that also showed it was out of calibration, 6 - 15 mv on several ranges, so I also tested it with our Keysight B2901A PSU. All of the test equipment in our lab has been calibrated within the last year. I measured at the same values you did, 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 V on both the SDM3065x and our HP3458A 8.5 digit multimeter. I noticed that if I did not add the accuracy of the Keysight B2901A into my calculations the SDM3065X and the HP3458A would seem out of calibration. So I think this is where the problem is. You have to add the accuracy specification from the PSU you are using. This will then give you an accurate measurement.

I am planning on sending your unit back next week.


--------

So they are saying that the 3 meters I compared it to are not accurate and all have the same error?

 

Online Kleinstein

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2021, 09:09:49 pm »
The response is a little odd: if you use a supply and than compare the reading from 2 meters (e.g.  DUT and 3458), there is usually no need to include the accuracy of the supply. At least this would not the normal accuracy, but only the stability for the time between the 2 readings, reduced by possible repititions.

There could still be a little tricky point. There could be some superimposed noise or ripple, that may effect both meters different. With a meter like the 3458 there is also some possible disturbance from auto zero switching. It is supposed to be not very large, but hard to tell how sensitive the supply reacts to this.

So they kind of confirm the meter is no in cal if the KSB2901A accuracy is not included (which is usually correct !).
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2021, 09:20:52 pm »
Form Siglent:

I had a chance to take a look at your SDM3065X today and I put it on the calibration stand and it passed the DC performance verification. I know you had some measured values that also showed it was out of calibration, 6 - 15 mv on several ranges, so I also tested it with our Keysight B2901A PSU. All of the test equipment in our lab has been calibrated within the last year. I measured at the same values you did, 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 V on both the SDM3065x and our HP3458A 8.5 digit multimeter. I noticed that if I did not add the accuracy of the Keysight B2901A into my calculations the SDM3065X and the HP3458A would seem out of calibration. So I think this is where the problem is. You have to add the accuracy specification from the PSU you are using. This will then give you an accurate measurement.

I am planning on sending your unit back next week.


--------

So they are saying that the 3 meters I compared it to are not accurate and all have the same error?
You should ask for their accuracy verification report showing how it meets spec on P14 of the service manual:
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/05/SDM3065X_ServiceManual_SM06036-E02F.pdf
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Online bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2021, 10:15:30 pm »
So they are saying that the 3 meters I compared it to are not accurate and all have the same error?

You haven't listed your exact measurements here, but from what you did say, I'll assume you are saying that your SDM3065X read 5.00500V and 60.0150V when your Fluke 187 read 5.0000 and 60.000V, respectively, or something close to that, and that your PSU and 'generic DMM' pretty much agreed with the Fluke 187.  While the PSU and generic DMM (what is it, actually?) agreeing with the 187 probably means something statistically, you probably need something more concrete to go on.  Clearly one of the two precision meters is reading incorrectly or you have made an error.

I agree with Kleinstein that Siglent's response seems a bit murky, especially because they do not specify what their 'calibration stand' is nor can they apparently supply measurements from it.  It seems quite odd that you would take a meter off of a calibrator to check it with a PSU.  However, if they checked it against an HP3458A, that would trump your 187!  I suspect that their results are correct and your meter is actually in spec.

Rereading your posts, I cannot find any explicit mention that the meters were connected in parallel at the same time when you were comparing them.  If you connect the 187 and 3065X in parallel to a PSU, I would expect them to read the same within their specifications.  The interaction that Kleinstein refers to--which I have observed in other meters, even with a calibrator--is not too likely to be an issue in this case because the 187 will not inject any noise and it has extraordinarily good normal mode rejection.  Whether a 3458A would bother the 3065X or vice versa, I don't know.  In any case, you can use one of the logging or graphing functions on the 3065X to see how stable it is.  What would be an issue is if you are connecting them sequentially, then they might load the PSU differently--especially if the 3065X is in high-impedance mode by default.  The 187 (and likely your generic DMM) present a 10M load to the PSU, the 3065X would be virtually infinite in high-impedance mode.  I don't know how your PSU reacts at such small loads, but when you get it back, I would try again with all the meters in parallel and perhaps a load resistor of 1K or so.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 10:17:50 pm by bdunham7 »
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline KG7AMV

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2021, 12:59:20 am »
I tested them in parallel results were the same.

Power source is a Siglent SPD3303.

I repeated the tests with a friends Keysight 5.5 yesterday against my Fluke and yep the output reading form the PSU was the same as the reading on the keysight my fluke was spot on also my generic was not so good but acceptable.  So can rule out the PSU.

I will request their accuracy verification report.



« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 01:18:10 am by KG7AMV »
 

Online bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2021, 02:19:54 am »
I tested them in parallel results were the same. So can rule out the PSU.

I will request their accuracy verification report.

Then this might get ugly!  The PSU should really be irrelevant, except as a stable, low noise source.  The display is for reference only when it comes to this level of precision.

Their service manual specifies a Fluke 5522A, I'd want to know if that is what they use on their 'calibration stand'.  If not, then I'd ask the same question I asked you--did they test the SDM3065X and HP3458A in parallel, or just observe that both meters were within the tolerance of the PSU without noting whether they agreed with each other.  The lack of clarity there is a bit frustrating.  You might want to poke them and ask them all that before they send it back.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 
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Offline KG7AMV

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2021, 02:48:43 am »
The Fluke and Keysight 5.5 Agreed in parallel when hooked up to the Siglent PSU.

If I cannot place my faith in it then it is worthless on the bench.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 02:50:43 am by KG7AMV »
 

Offline TheDefpom

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2021, 01:11:32 am »
They should be testing this on a DC calibrator not a power supply, they are completely different beasts and have very different stability expectations, a calibrator will be much lower noise and have much higher stability, a power supply could drift constantly or contain high frequency noise which may or may not get filtered/captured by the meter being tested...

It sounds to me like they don't have the right gear there to do the testing... personally I have a few DC calibrators and I am just a nerd that fixes stuff, so I don't think they have an excuse for not having the right equipment to do the job.
Cheers Scott

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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2021, 01:19:33 am »
I don't believe NA can do more than simple accuracy checks as they have partnered with Transcat as their calibration provider.
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/
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Offline TheDefpom

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2021, 01:24:34 am »
If they are reliant on external calibration services that is fine, but if they are doing in house performance verifications for returned units they need to be using gear that is suitable for the task to ensure that they are getting the right results.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 01:27:20 am by TheDefpom »
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Online bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDM3065X Issues? RMA Time?
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2021, 05:02:47 am »
If they are reliant on external calibration services that is fine, but if they are doing in house performance verifications for returned units they need to be using gear that is suitable for the task to ensure that they are getting the right results.

I wouldn't assume that they don't have acceptable equipment, as they mentioned their 'calibration stand', whatever that is, and an HP3458A.  That and a stable PSU should be enough to spot any errors, especially a larger error like the one that the OP is reporting.  Their deal with Transcat may be primarily driven by the burden of establishing an accredited cal lab. 

We will have to wait and see how this turns out as we just don't have enough info, IMO.  The Siglent techs response was lacking enough info to convince me for certain that the process they have in place is valid.  The OP's story doesn't leave a whole lot of room for doubt, but there could be some weird error there somewhere.  If Siglent actually checked a meter with a specific claimed defect and returns it 'no problem found' and it turns out to actually be defective, that would be a huge black eye for them--but I'm not presuming that's the case.  The frustrating part, especially for the OP, is that you or I could look at the meter and verify or refute an error of that magnitude in a few minutes and clearly explain and demonstrate why in a manner that knowledgeable people would understand and agree with.  It is interesting to see the process play out.  5mV error at a 5V reading is in $100 handheld territory as errors go.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 


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