Author Topic: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes  (Read 69953 times)

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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2016, 04:14:02 pm »
My Agilent/Keysight scope jumps to the right byte when it is selected in the list (you can enable/disable this behaviour).

As told previously least I hope Siglent improve this decoding option for more useability and just this what is in example Keysight is one (important) what also I hope. Even when I can turn zoom window to time position what is displayed in the list. But, why user need do work... my fingers are tired to things what simple 1-0 processor can do.

Lets hope in China they also sooner or later find that T&M instruments design need well experiended professionals what have enough knowledge and experiece how to use these intruments in real world for real work. They need this kind of "useability" experts in team. It is not work for young just out from school EE / Programmer. How clever and fast they ever are. Inside company need also be group of beta testers who are not same peoples who write FW or design mechanics and electronic circuits in equipment under test. (theu are "home blind")

Also, there need change byte number so that in all cases it start from trigger if zoomed details or not. (trigger can be also data byte in transmission but better if it can be also user defined "string" etc.. 

There is many small clever things what can add - but first important is that decoding first works reliable.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline pxl

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2016, 09:27:25 pm »
@rf-loop: do you have any comparison between the SDS1000x and the SDS2000(x) regarding the fan noise? Also, I have a SDG 2042X to compare with. Thanks!
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2016, 09:50:22 pm »
@rf-loop: do you have any comparison between the SDS1000x and the SDS2000(x) regarding the fan noise? Also, I have a SDG 2042X to compare with. Thanks!
I've sent a query to check if the X series fan is still the same as used in the earlier 2000 series.

From an earlier thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-msosds2000-series/msg476385/#msg476385

Pics:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-msosds2000-series/msg743160/#msg743160

It's not like there were complaints of the 2000 series fan noise so I'd be surprised if it has been changed.

I've got to boot a SDG2042X so I'll check the comparable noise with my SDS2304 (not X).

Very similar noise levels however they're slightly different, probably due to the different sized fans used in both these units.

But it wasn't an X series so we'll see what other info turn up or if another user chimes in.

Hope that helps pxl.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 10:13:22 pm by tautech »
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Offline pxl

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2016, 10:35:14 pm »
@rf-loop: do you have any comparison between the SDS1000x and the SDS2000(x) regarding the fan noise? Also, I have a SDG 2042X to compare with. Thanks!
I've sent a query to check if the X series fan is still the same as used in the earlier 2000 series.

From an earlier thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-msosds2000-series/msg476385/#msg476385

Pics:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-msosds2000-series/msg743160/#msg743160

It's not like there were complaints of the 2000 series fan noise so I'd be surprised if it has been changed.

I've got to boot a SDG2042X so I'll check the comparable noise with my SDS2304 (not X).

Very similar noise levels however they're slightly different, probably due to the different sized fans used in both these units.

But it wasn't an X series so we'll see what other info turn up or if another user chimes in.

Hope that helps pxl.

Yes, thank you!
 

Offline pxl

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2016, 06:35:48 am »
Now I am checking the differences between the SDS1000X and SDS2000X series, however, apart from the obvious differences (channel numbers, front panel layout, sample rate, waveform update speed and memory) the functionality seems identical. The segmented memory length differs, though (1024 vs 80000). Am I right or overlooked something?

The SDS1000X series I like more and hacking the fan would be a no-brainer, but I hardly would lose the warranty on a 1000 euros scope. And because of slower performance, perhaps there is more room in fan speed optimization.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2016, 07:14:31 am »
Now I am checking the differences between the SDS1000X and SDS2000X series, however, apart from the obvious differences (channel numbers, front panel layout, sample rate, waveform update speed and memory) the functionality seems identical. The segmented memory length differs, though (1024 vs 80000). Am I right or overlooked something?

The SDS1000X series I like more and hacking the fan would be a no-brainer, but I hardly would lose the warranty on a 1000 euros scope. And because of slower performance, perhaps there is more room in fan speed optimization.

SDS1000X and 2000X  have both max 80000 segments.
(there is obsolete information around, even in Siglent own web sides)

SDS2000 is far over SDS1000X   and I believe SDS2000X then bit more. (SDS2kX have 16ch LA, 140M memory, when SDS2k have 70M and 8ch LA.   Also X model front panel ergonomy/useability is better and not only due to trigger level knob change but also some button functions)

Also example SDS2k processing power is higher than SDS1kX. Many things happends faster)

But overall they are functionally near each others.

If compare 2 channel model
1kX 1GSa/s / 500MSa/s
2kX 2GSa/s / 1GSa/s

1kX 14M/7M         (this affect of course to samplerate with slow timebases)
2kX 140M/70M      ( SDS2k 70M/35M)

SDS2kX  4channel

2GSa/1GSa + 2GSa/1GSa
150/70M    +  140M/70M   (SDS2k  70/35M + 70/35M)
If 4 channel mode is used for 2 channel it can both channel 2GSa/s and both channel have 140M (SDS2k 70M)


1kX and 2kX  (and 2k)
Both have always backround running history recording with actual speed,  up to previous 80000 acquisitions (for all channels) After stop, look what just happend before stop in previous individual acquisitions.. How many previous aacquisitions depends how long is one acquisition memory lenght. Relationship is same as with amount of segments in Sequence mode.

Both have around same Sequence mode (segmented memory aacquisitions)
Speed around same and amount of max segments same.

But if run Sequence mode so that it is repeating. (example after user selected 12345 segments in sequence it start agen after this one sequence is full. After then it deisplay on the screen all captured segments overlayed and start new whole sequence. This time when it is processing captured segments for display and before it can start new Sequence need lot of hard processing. In this, SDS1kX is clearly slower than SDS2k. And I believe same with SDS2kX.  (this image processing time is also highly dependent about display mode specially if amount of segments are high in one Sequence.) In usual aplication with Sequence mode this time between Sequences is not critical.



If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2016, 11:44:48 am »
Something about intensity gradation.

There is two main things and then many other small things also depending how manufaacturer have implemented it.

Oscilloscope acquire single acquisitions repeatedly as fast as it can but depending signal and trigger settings of course.

Single acquisition may have high amount of data points, far more than display is horizontally. If acquisition is straight line and acquisition lenght is 700pts it is equal with display horizontal signal lenght. If acquisition is 700kpts there is 1000 datapoints for one position horizontally in display and so on.
When there is two data points in same memory map position they are overlayed. Intensity can adjust when we know how many data points is how many data point  is stacked in one display memory position. Of course there need do many compromises and set some variables depending many things but principle is: more data point collisions more intensity.

This is inside one individual acquisition.

Other thing is that with fast wfm/s speeds every new TFT image have several individual acquisitions overlayed. So there may be overlayed many aacquisitions and also if data points density is high, also overlayed data points in every single acqquisition.

Hone single acquisition.ere now one simplified example about (later More with continuously running scope where come also overlayed waveforms intensity.

In next animated gif there is noise source connected to scope input.
Oscilloscope in single shot mode. It trig once and do one single capture and stop. (first image in gif animation)
Lenght is 14MSample and samplerate 1GSa/s and t/div setting 1ms/div. 

In beginning there is just this original whole trace as it is after single shot.

After then zoomed out to 20ms/div.  After then this one single shot  sequentially zoomed in, step by step using horizontal scale (timebase)  until 2ns/div.


In original 1ms/div single shot capture whole 14M lenght is visible without overlap.
When zoomed out it can see that still intensity grow if compare original capture.
In this case, down to 100ns/dif there is detectable intensity gradation. 50ns/div there is not because theere is not overlayed data points. Display memory lenght and data lenght equal because 1GSa/s (display width 700ns)


Inside one single capture (one shot)  intensity gradation.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 12:03:57 pm by rf-loop »
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2016, 07:46:11 am »
In ARRL QST there was article about SDS1000X.

Please do not copy it and put directly readable in some web side.
But this pdf file you can download and read and save for your own personal use.


(QST® – Devoted entirely to Amateur Radio http://www.arrl.org Reprinted with permission from April 2016 QST)

If you are interest about this ARRL publication QST please subscribe it.
http://www.arrl.org/qst
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2016, 11:15:08 am »
I do not want to comment now more exept that 16 channel 500MSa/s  14Mpts/channel.

If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2016, 12:36:28 pm »
That plug looks very similar to the MSO input on the SDS2000 series. Does it support protocol decoding on the digital channels?
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Offline znroot

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2016, 08:30:30 am »
I do not want to comment now more exept that 16 channel 500MSa/s  14Mpts/channel.



Is it an external upgrade? How can I buy it? O0 >:D
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2016, 08:37:17 am »
Is it an external upgrade? 
No.

Quote
How can I buy it?
Soon.....
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Offline tautech

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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2016, 03:51:38 am »
With the release of the SDS1000X+ versions there is now also a Service manual for this range of DSO's.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/service_manual/SDS1000Xplus_ServiceManual_SM0101X-E01A.pdf
2.3 MB

All other documentation on this series:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=4688&tid=1&T=2
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Offline UpLateGeek

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2016, 06:14:46 am »
After some pestering of Trio Sales, the SDS1000X+ series is now available!

SDS1102X+
SDS1202X+

You can let your credit card company know I accept thanks in the form of chocolate and/or craft beer.

(Note: I have no affiliation with Trio test & measurement, I just wanted to order one for myself and thought you guys might like to know it's available.)
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2016, 06:34:07 am »
Looks like they just stole the idea of a "Plus" version from Rigol.

Whereas Rigol spells "Plus" with the full word, Siglent decided to go for "+".

Personally I like "Plus" better in the model name than "+".

Note that the plug looks more similar to the MSO input on the MSO1000Z series, than the MSO input on the MSO2000 series, because there the MSO input is not so wide, and you can see 2 sections, whereas both on the Siglent and the MSO1000Z series the plug is much wider and there is only 1 section.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2016, 06:54:13 am »
After some pestering of Trio Sales, the SDS1000X+ series is now available!

SDS1102X+
SDS1202X+

You can let your credit card company know I accept thanks in the form of chocolate and/or craft beer.

(Note: I have no affiliation with Trio test & measurement, I just wanted to order one for myself and thought you guys might like to know it's available.)
Welcome to the forum.

Do consider that Trio may have had pre-+ versions that needed be sold first.
The SDS1kX+ versions have been out for ~6 weeks and I just received my first small shipment of these and the SDS1kCML+ both of which are new to me.

However the SDS1kX+ versions include the inbuilt AWG (previously S models) and are somewhat dearer than the non+ models.
I got some with the LA option and LA probes....quite nice and I'll post up some pics later.
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2016, 07:11:32 am »
Can you provide some more details about the SDS1kCML+ series?

Isn't the "CML" version part of an older series? At least they used to use these letters in some older products, which had much less memory, where C meant color if I am correct, M meant memory, and L something else, which I don't remember :)

Does the "+" also stand their for the LA option, or does the "+" there just stand for "restyled"?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 07:28:45 am by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2016, 07:44:33 am »
Can you provide some more details about the SDS1kCML+ series?

Isn't the "CML" version part of an older series? At least they used to use these letters in some older products, which had much less memory, where C meant color if I am correct, M meant memory, and L something else, which I don't remember :)

Does the "+" also stand their for the LA option, or does the "+" there just stand for "restyled"?
Yes, the SDS1000CML is an existing series, now + with LAN and higher res display for same price as before.
Model coding:
CML being 2M memory as opposed to CNL(40Kb memory) models and L for all models designates the 7" widescreen, previous models were all 5.7", but that was some years back.

Further explanation is in this post and the links within:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digital-oscilloscope-comparison-chart/msg958231/#msg958231


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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2016, 08:25:31 am »
Can you provide some more details about the SDS1kCML+ series?

Isn't the "CML" version part of an older series? At least they used to use these letters in some older products, which had much less memory, where C meant color if I am correct, M meant memory, and L something else, which I don't remember :)

Does the "+" also stand their for the LA option, or does the "+" there just stand for "restyled"?

SDS1102CML  updated using  800x480 resolution TFT and added LAN connection is SDS11102CML+
It is fully explained in Siglent official web sides.

These updated models are:
SDS1052DL+  is 50 MHz, 2 CH, 500 MSa/s (Max.) , 32 Kpts, 7 inch (800*480)
SDS1072CML+  is 70MHz, 2 CH, 1 GSa/s (Max.) , 2 Mpts, 7 inch (800*480) (NOT in EU)
SDS1102CML+  is 100 MHz, 2 CH, 1 GSa/s (Max.) , 2 Mpts, 7 inch (800*480)
SDS1152CML+ is 150 MHz, 2 CH, 1 GSa/s (Max.) , 2 Mpts, 7 inch (800*480)
(are upgraded in screen resolution and memory for recorder; Lan interface added, front panel refreshed)
New (+) is:  7”color TFT 8×16 800×480
Old was: 7”color TFT 8×18 480×234
Waveform storage: Old 20, New(+) 10
Record Memory: Old 6M, New (+) 7M
Interfaces:
Old:USB Host, USB Device (USBTMC), Pass / Fail
New (+) :USB Host, USB Device (USBTMC), LAN (VXI-11), Pass / Fail

Old SDS1000CML series: Discontinued.

Old SDS1000CNL discontinued exept old SDS1202CNL+ continue:
SDS1202CNL+  parameters, including display unchanged and still  available (200MHz, 2GSa/s, 18k mem)
(this is exeption and this + have nothing to do with this new DL+/CML+  improvement. This CNL+ was old other improvement in older SDS1202CNL)

Some discontinued models still available and of course support and warranty is normal  and continue normally.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 08:34:49 am by rf-loop »
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Offline UpLateGeek

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2016, 04:10:58 am »
Welcome to the forum.

Do consider that Trio may have had pre-+ versions that needed be sold first.
The SDS1kX+ versions have been out for ~6 weeks and I just received my first small shipment of these and the SDS1kCML+ both of which are new to me.

However the SDS1kX+ versions include the inbuilt AWG (previously S models) and are somewhat dearer than the non+ models.
I got some with the LA option and LA probes....quite nice and I'll post up some pics later.

I'd say they're aimed at different segments of the market, and are priced accordingly. The non-+ models are definitely cheaper, certainly enough so that anyone who doesn't need the extra features would think twice about spending the extra on a + model.

On the other hand, the -S model is actually slightly more expensive than the + model, despite lacking the logic analyser option, so I'm not sure what's going on there.

Anyway, my SDS1102X+ should be arriving soon, although I didn't have the cash for the LA probe and option this month, so hopefully I'll be able to pick them up next month.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X series oscilloscopes
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2016, 04:30:55 am »
Welcome to the forum.

Do consider that Trio may have had pre-+ versions that needed be sold first.
The SDS1kX+ versions have been out for ~6 weeks and I just received my first small shipment of these and the SDS1kCML+ both of which are new to me.

However the SDS1kX+ versions include the inbuilt AWG (previously S models) and are somewhat dearer than the non+ models.
I got some with the LA option and LA probes....quite nice and I'll post up some pics later.

I'd say they're aimed at different segments of the market, and are priced accordingly. The non-+ models are definitely cheaper, certainly enough so that anyone who doesn't need the extra features would think twice about spending the extra on a + model.

On the other hand, the -S model is actually slightly more expensive than the + model, despite lacking the logic analyser option, so I'm not sure what's going on there.

Anyway, my SDS1102X+ should be arriving soon, although I didn't have the cash for the LA probe and option this month, so hopefully I'll be able to pick them up next month.
They shouldn't be, I've got them priced the same.
But then there's the distributors buy price which in their local currency can and does change from shipment to shipment.
In fact if you look at the Siglent USA site, the S models are no longer available, S's are now X+ models that now include the AWG and this newly added LA HW, all for the same price as the previous S model.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4688&T=2&tid=1


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Offline snik

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #72 on: August 07, 2016, 01:54:18 pm »
Have a SDS1102X for some time and was happy with it.
Yesterday I do some sweeps on this Oscilloscope and I recognize that I have over the full Frequency Range of the scope an continues Voltagedrop. For example at 10 MHz to 100 MHz at a Signal from 4Vpp, correct terminated, i have a Drop from  1.2 Vpp.
I have done a short Video :

https://youtu.be/P31YGYEonr0

Is that normal at this scope ? I think not. Firmware is latest.
Has anybody an Idea what's wrong with it ?

Michael
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 09:26:27 pm by snik »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2016, 01:58:21 pm »
Did you properly terminate the BNC cable at the input of the oscilloscope? You have to select input impedance of 50 ohm in the oscilloscope to avoid reflections, which will lead to a reduced amplitude level.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #74 on: August 07, 2016, 02:07:27 pm »
Test it again with a less challenging waveform from you AWG, try 1V amplitude not 4.  ;)
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