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SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions

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Wuerstchenhund:

--- Quote from: rf-loop on May 16, 2013, 09:09:59 am ---If only meaning is that led is on if menu is open visible on the screen and off if menu is not visible on the screen what information this led is for - nothing.  Situation  can know if just look display. So.. it can think, do it include some information. If only informatoin is show that menu is on or off on the TFT  this information can get if look TFT and this led can take off and save manufacture  costs some  tenth of jiao.
--- End quote ---

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. The LED in the buttons is there to indicate which section of the menu is active. If it is on then it means the displayed menu belongs to AQUISITION or whatever has been selected, if it is off then it means no menu area is currently active. If you switch off the menu via MENU ON/OFF then the menu is no longer active, hence the LED in the button should occult.

This is standard logic in user interface design for years.


--- Quote ---Menu can be displayed on the screen or it can be hide, also including this that meny can disappear from display automatically. You can shut off menu display automatically or manually but still this menu is active (but not on the screen area).  Also if display go screen save, still you can see what menu there is active and push button and do "blindly" setting in this active menu. This led is not there without reason. It give information, even if selected menu is not displayed.

--- End quote ---

Are you saying that the soft keys remain active even if you switch off the menu (I assume they are not, although I haven't tried it yet)? If so then this is a design flaw, contradicting well researched and established user interface design conventions.

I'm also surprised you really suggest that being able (let's assume the soft keys remain active when the menu is off) that pressing softkey buttons blindly is actually a good thing, as it's pretty stupi to manipulate a control if you're not sure what it really does (remember that many menu areas have multiple layers). Doing that is not a good idea, it simply is sloppy behavior which will only lead to errors.

Any device that allows what you're suggesting is simply badly designed.

rf-loop:

--- Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 16, 2013, 09:27:50 am ---
--- Quote from: rf-loop on May 16, 2013, 09:09:59 am ---If only meaning is that led is on if menu is open visible on the screen and off if menu is not visible on the screen what information this led is for - nothing.  Situation  can know if just look display. So.. it can think, do it include some information. If only informatoin is show that menu is on or off on the TFT  this information can get if look TFT and this led can take off and save manufacture  costs some  tenth of jiao.
--- End quote ---

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. The LED in the buttons is there to indicate which section of the menu is active. If it is on then it means the displayed menu belongs to AQUISITION or whatever has been selected, if it is off then it means no menu area is currently active. If you switch off the menu via MENU ON/OFF then the menu is no longer active, hence the LED in the button should occult.

This is standard logic in user interface design for years.


--- Quote ---Menu can be displayed on the screen or it can be hide, also including this that meny can disappear from display automatically. You can shut off menu display automatically or manually but still this menu is active (but not on the screen area).  Also if display go screen save, still you can see what menu there is active and push button and do "blindly" setting in this active menu. This led is not there without reason. It give information, even if selected menu is not displayed.

--- End quote ---

Are you saying that the soft keys remain active even if you switch off the menu (I assume they are not, although I haven't tried it yet)? If so then this is a design flaw, contradicting well researched and established user interface design conventions.

I'm also surprised you really suggest that being able (let's assume the soft keys remain active when the menu is off) that pressing softkey buttons blindly is actually a good thing, as it's pretty stupi to manipulate a control if you're not sure what it really does (remember that many menu areas have multiple layers). Doing that is not a good idea, it simply is sloppy behavior which will only lead to errors.

Any device that allows what you're suggesting is simply badly designed.

--- End quote ---

Yes, I know it is good and bad. I do not know why they have selected this.

Perhaps thinkin that user may want shut off menu bar over the waveform area but still keep meny active in backround. This is what there is.

You can try, select cursors. Select example cursor A for adjust with adjust knob. You see there is now led on top of this knob. Then you want turn OFF displayed OR there is timer what turn menu bar off. But, in bacround it is still active and turn adjust know still you can move selected cursor. If hit any of menu bar buttons, menu bar coma agen to displau and it ius just this menu bar what is active n bacround. I personally feel it is nice feature more than bug.  Also same for display menu.
Activate it. Turn menubar timer to 2s. Then select example brightness or in other some menu some other adjustment. But fast menubar disappear, still your control is active. 

Bad or not but it is easy and perhaps more fast to use. And in some menubar it can fast remember if frequently use some adjustments in it... 2sec timer and this hidden active menu... it is handy. And if have bad memory, led tell what menu there is active... but not tell what sub page...   just keep this timer short and do something where need frequantly adjust / chane some 1 or 2 setting in active menu bar selected page. And "always" your screen is all for waveform.

Of course if this is car, train, aeroplane... it need really be different for safety reasons but here..in oscilloscope, nothing bad happend if you push any these menu bar buttons... only it may step to next available setting behind this button in order and if there is three possible setting... example in trgger it just jog up, down both edge every time you push it...  and menu bar pop up on screen also for tell what happend...(until it disappear how you have selected) ...  if it was wrong button just push next time it or more until setting is agen what need and then push right button. After people is familiar with it...  I think it more positive than negative feature. It may make oscilloscope using very fast. Ok, there is opposite thinking... in some kind of just very opposite is Owon. Every time you push this, and this and this and that and what ever you do all agen and agen... but you always know. But in long run... it start sometimes feel very "stupid" or frustrating.

rf-loop:
Then about RUN/STOP  and Single shot.

Scope is run and acquiring. You push Run/stop... scope stop and it is now red. , you push it agen it run agen and it is green as long as you want agen stop.. run....stop...run...

No any hassle with Single button.

If you want use use Single, it can activate in trigger menu or just pushing this Single button.
After you press single... it IS in Single mode AND single button is green. And now also Run/stop is red... becouse it just ago turn to single mode and after last capture  it is now in single mode waiting what user want next.

It works just perfect.

Now in Single mode you can start new single shot or you can return back to normal running.

(now single is green, run is red)
Push run once and it run next single shot... single is still selected and there is green light in single button.

If you want continue normal use you turn off single mode... what need do... ok...push agen Single button and now light is off and single mode is off. Scope run now normally and run/stop is green until you push it to stop or until you go agen for single mode.

Push single...light on... push it agen...light off.

Do default.

Scope run now.
Push single. (green light and run/stop red and scope is now stopped and in single mode.)
Push run/stop (it change green as long as this single acquire takes (depends horizontal speed (1) and also if it need wait trig event!!) and then it stop and display it and run/stop is agen red and scope stopped.
Push Run/stop agen... it do next single shot. and then stay red as long as you want next.
If you want stop single mode, just push it and this green light also shut off.

(1) Note with very slow speeds. When you start sigle shot by run/stop button. There read waiting... until it meet trigger event after pretrigger buffer.

Note TFT left top corner status display...
If it is in single mode, and run is green (single run in progress) and if nothing happend... look TFT left top corner if there read example "Waiting" (waiting trigger) or there is green Trig'd (it have get trigger and now it is capturing signal... soon there read red clor  "Stop" and also Run/stop button is red.

Deckert:

--- Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 16, 2013, 09:27:50 am ---I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. The LED in the buttons is there to indicate which section of the menu is active. If it is on then it means the displayed menu belongs to AQUISITION or whatever has been selected, if it is off then it means no menu area is currently active. If you switch off the menu via MENU ON/OFF then the menu is no longer active, hence the LED in the button should occult.

--- End quote ---

The LED staying lit is exactly right, because if you press the Menu button, the menu that was last used comes back up - and the last used menu is the function LED that was lit. In my view this logic is sound and preferred.

And yes, the soft keys stay active based on the active function that is lit by the LED. Makes for very handy short-cut to functions. I use it a lot of the time after getting to know the 'scope well.

--deckert

Wuerstchenhund:

--- Quote from: rf-loop on May 16, 2013, 02:40:53 pm ---It works just perfect.
--- End quote ---

Unfortunately it doesn't. If I press SINGLE then the acquisition stops, and SINGLE lights green and RUN/STOP is red. So far so good.

Now if I want to do a single shot acquisition, the logical thing would be to press SINGLE (that's how it works on most scopes out there). However, if I press SINGLE then the scope returns to normal (continuous) acquisition mode.

If I however press RUN/STOP instead, the scope does a single acquisition shot.

The standard (and expected) behaviour would be the other way around: a press of SINGLE initiates a single acquisition shot, and RUN/STOP would start and stop normal acquisition.

What's worse is that the behaviour seems to be erratic, as sometimes pressing SINGLE does indeed only start a single acquisition shot.


--- Quote ---If you want continue normal use you turn off single mode... what need do... ok...push agen Single button and now light is off and single mode is off. Scope run now normally and run/stop is green until you push it to stop or until you go agen for single mode.

Push single...light on... push it agen...light off.
--- End quote ---

Again, this is contrary to what are established standard conventions for most scopes, which is that RUN/STOP starts and stops normal acquisition and a press of SINGLE fires a single acquisition shot.

I can somewhat see what the thinking was behind the current design (using SINGLE to 'pre-select' single shot mode, and using RUN/STOP to 'start' the single acquisition shot). But that is not very logical and defies most principles for good user interface design.

And idiocracies like these do their part why the reputation of cheap Chinese scopes remains bad amongst EEs.

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