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| Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review |
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| tautech:
--- Quote from: graybeard on June 24, 2019, 08:28:38 am --- --- Quote from: tautech on June 17, 2019, 07:58:10 pm --- --- Quote from: graybeard on June 17, 2019, 06:47:29 pm ---I have been using my SDS1104X-E oscilloscope for more than a month, and except for lacking a trigger reference in the data file I have been very happy with the ease of use, features, and performance of the scope. However the 100 MHz PP510 probes that come with it are a steaming pile of excrement because of the flaky X1/X10 switch on the probe. The contacts on the switch are intermittent and easily tweaked while using. If it was a dedicated X10 probe without the switch it would be fine, but the poor quality switch renders them highly unreliable and useless for me. --- End quote --- Chris, we do get the very occasional crook one. I check every one like this: Connect to Probe Cal output. Find a V/div and Vertical Pos setting for 10x probe that can also display 1x probe switch setting without any other adjustment. Ensure a Trigger is maintained with each probe setting. From one or the other probe attenuation switching must be displayed as a snappy clean change in amplitude, no laggy tails or instability at either 1x or 10x. Gently wiggle the switch at 1x, if it's not perfect claim warranty. Check each probe carefully, they should be perfect. When you know for sure how many are crook drop Jason a line and get them replaced. Anyways, luckily the PP510 is a cheap probe and only $10ea and I keep a few in stock just because I do find the odd faulty one. https://store.siglentamerica.com/product/pp510-1000-mhz-oscilloscope-probe --- End quote --- I was in the middle of my impedance measurement project and I did not want to take the time diagnosing probe problems, so I switched to an older HP probe to finish. Once I switched, I had no more issues. Today I had some time and played with the probe some more. It is intermittent, but the problem is not with the switch. The problem is the spring hook that fits on the end of the probe. It's contact to the probe tip is intermittent. The tip itself is straight and the probe works with another spring tip without issue. --- End quote --- OK, get Jason to send you another grabber hat. They should have some spares from faulty probes. |
| Performa01:
This is for those who worry about the electrical performance of low bandwidth rated probes like the PP510. I think I was able to demonstrate already that the PP510 is not different to the PP215 above 100MHz and both probes perform reasonably well up to at least 300MHz: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665 So how is this possible? It has to be mostly marketing, because if you build a passive probe properly, with the correct HF compensation for the scope input it's intended to be used with (or adjustable HF compensation like e.g. the TesTec TT-MF312), then you can expect a probe bandwidth of several hundred MHz and you would have to deliberately add internal filtering to limit the bandwidth to e.g. 100 MHz. Because of the low actual input impedance, passive "high impedance" probes aren't terribly useful at frequencies that high anyway. So in fact the probe bandwidth specification only means that the manufacturer doesn't guarantee anything at frequencies higher than that. A long time ago I performed a test with several probes on the 300MHz Siglent SDS2304X, including the 100 MHz Tektronix P3010, which was the 2nd best after the original Siglent SP2030A! And this on a 300MHz scope which wasn't even the Tektronix for which these probes were originally designed! So a humble 100 MHz probe performed quite good and provided a system bandwidth of close to 400 MHz (450 MHz with the original SP2030A). More importantly, The 100 MHz Tektronix P3010 performed significantly better than a 500MHz Keysight N2843A (on this DSO!). Now I have explicitly tested the cheap 100 MHz PP510 probe (in x10 mode of course) on a 1 GHz SDS5104X DSO. Look at the attached images: SDS5kX_PP510_1kHz_1ns Signal = 1 kHz, 3 V square, 1ns rise/fall times Ch.1 = direct 50 ohms coax connection Ch.4 = PP510, X10 mode, 25 ohms source impedance SDS5kX_PP510_50MHz_1ns Signal = 50 MHz, 3 V square, 1ns rise/fall times Ch.1 = direct 50 ohms coax connection Ch.4 = PP510, X10 mode, 25 ohms source impedance SDS5kX_PP510_FR1GHz Frequency response graph for the PP510 from 1 to 999 MHz. Please ignore the glitch at the start of the frequency range – reference level for this measurement is +1 dBV and the grid is 1 dB/div. Even the cheap PP510 only comes close to -3 dB at frequencies above 300 MHz and we need to go up to about 630 MHz to fall below that – but only briefly, as we are "back in game" at 750 MHz and reach +1.8 dB at 980 MHz. We also need to take the frequency response of the DSO into account, i.e. the probe-only response would be even higher. It should be obvious that probes do not have a smooth, predictable low pass characteristic – at least not when connected to the scope. With the 50 MHz square wave we can see that the PP510 transition times are even a tad faster than with direct coax connection; together with the high overshoot, this can be attributed to the positive frequency response (above reference level) at very high frequencies. What we also see is the fact that transition time measurements with the low 1 kHz frequency are still fairly close because of the deep measurement. I think this is quite handy, even though measurements aren't quite as fast as on some other instruments, which use heavily decimated data for all their measurements. |
| casterle:
I started reading your review out of curiosity as I await the arrival of my SDS2104X Plus. What a wonderful job you've done! In addition to your detailed coverage of the 'scope, I got an education I didn't expect. The section on interpolation, for example, talked about how each mode works as well as when it's best used - with screenshots of each mode to boot. I found such elaborations throughout your review; thank you for that extra effort - much appreciated! |
| tautech:
--- Quote from: casterle on December 19, 2020, 07:12:22 pm ---I started reading your review out of curiosity as I await the arrival of my SDS2104X Plus. What a wonderful job you've done! In addition to your detailed coverage of the 'scope, I got an education I didn't expect. The section on interpolation, for example, talked about how each mode works as well as when it's best used - with screenshots of each mode to boot. I found such elaborations throughout your review; thank you for that extra effort - much appreciated! --- End quote --- You'll find a significant amount of Performa01's influence in the SDS2000X Plus series also. ;) |
| Sparky Faraday:
@ rf-loop: Like using these scopes, listening is an acquired skill, both for musical content and fidelity of the presentation. You have to spend time with acoustic un-amplified concerts to "learn" what instruments really sound like or play one yourself with others. After a while you can hear what does and doesn't belong doesn't belong in your audio system. Again, a skill that takes time to learn, just like identifying things that don't belong in a scope trace that point to a problem. Thank you for your valuable contributions to this site. |
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